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White House Leadership Meeting, 6/05/73 (includes Ford notes)
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4535872
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White House Leadership Meeting, 6/05/73 (includes Ford notes)
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Gerald R. Ford Congressional Papers
Robert Hartmann's Subject Files
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U.S. House of Representatives. 3/4/1789-
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These documents were scanned from Box R34 of the Gerald R. Ford Congressional Papers at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library.
Received 4:40
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
JUNE 5, 1973
6/6/73 many
OFFICE OF THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY
THE WHITE HOUSE
PRESS CONFERENCE
OF
SENATOR HUGH SCOTT
AND
CONGRESSMAN GERALD R. FORD
GERALD FORD LIBRARY
THE BRIEFING ROOM
10:52 A.M. EDT
MR. WARREN: Good morning. The leadership meeting
lasted for an hour and three quarters this morning. There
was a full discussion on legislative matters. As you recall,
this would be the meeting where Senator Scott and Congressman
Ford and other leaders brought up the matters they wished to
discuss and set the agenda.
Also this morning, Dr. Kissinger discussed the
recent meetings in Iceland with President Pompidou and the
upcoming talks with Le Duc Tho in Paris.
I should tell you, before I turn this over to
Congressman Ford, that the President this morning invited
Senator Scott and Congressman Ford to participate in Cabinet
meetings in the future, and that will be worked out as we go
along.
I will turn this over to Congressman Ford now.
&
Can you tell us a little more about that?
MR. WARREN: I am sure the leaders can. Congress-
man Ford will discuss the meeting and get you started.
CONGRESSMAN FORD: Thank you very much, Jerry.
This was the first meeting with the President where
the House and Senate leadership suggested the agenda, and it
was agreed that the meeting was so successful that every
third meeting between the White House and the Republican leader-
ship would be one where we set the agenda.
At the outset, as Jerry said, Henry Kissinger took
about 30 minutes to fill us in and to brief us on the outcome
of the meeting in Iceland, and the report that we received was
that the meeting went very successfully. It is laying the
groundwork for subsequent meetings, negotiations, in the months
ahead.
The second report given by Henry Kissinger involved
his prospective negotiations with Le Duc Tho in Paris. The
effort is not to renegotiate the peace agreement, but to
insist upon adherence to the provisions of the agreement.
There are four areas of violation. The North Viet-
namese are continuing to keep forces in Laos, in Cambodia. They
are increasing, in violation of the agreement, the flow of arms
into South Vietnam, and they are not adhering -- and this is
most important from our point of view -- to the agreement as
far as MIAs are concerned.
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- 2 -
Henry hopes to negotiate greater adherence to
the peace agreement in the next four or five days.
I might make a comment about the aim and objec-
tive of these meetings where we set the agenda.
We believe that this is already producing results
GERALD, FORD LIBRARY
in that Members of the House and Senate from the committees
affected, and the leadership, are having an input earlier
into proposed legislation and there is a closer cooperation
and liaison between the White House and the various depart-
ments as the legislation progresses.
I think the net result will be beneficial both from
the White House as well as from our point of view. It was
agreed that Senator Scott and I would meet with the President
and the Cabinet from time to time in an effort for us to get
an input directly to the various Cabinet Members on matters
that affect them from a legislative point of view. There was
no definite time for the first meeting, but I believe we will
be invited at the next meeting of the White House with the
Cabinet.
MORE
- 3 -
GERALO, FORD LIBRARY
SENATOR SCOTT: I have just one word on that, and
that is that the President has requested all the Cabinet and
agencies to cooperate fully with Congressman Ford and myself
to respond promptly to help us in the solution of our mutual
problems, and that is occurring. It is most satisfactory.
We are in constant touch with Cabinet officers, and
it is very helpful. On another matter, ladies and gentlemen--
and President Tolbert- in recent weeks the intelligence
community and the White House have borne the onus of criticism
from certain quarters for the use of wiretaps on NSC employees
and newsmen.
Further, an Administration proposal for the use of
special measures to protect the domestic security in the
turbulent days of 1970 has served as the focus for domestic
political opponents. The impression has been left with the
American people that somehow wiretaps and clandestine opera-
tions were tactics dreamed up by internal security agencies
and individuals and solely within the Nixon Administration.
inuz
This is an utterly false impression. I previously
advised the President, my best recollection is it was on May 22,
when Jerry Ford and I met with the President in the afternoon,
that the interest of the American government, the intelligence
community, his Administration and the American people are no
longer served by continued silence on the subject.
Wiretaps for national security purposes, including
of newsmen and government employees, were not initiatives
without precedent in previous Administrations. Political and
civil rights leaders were also among those subjected to wire-
tapping and other forms of clandestine investigation during
prior Administrations.
At my request, the President has agreed to make public
certain preliminary statistics and to have completed over the
next few weeks a more detailed survey of national security
wiretaps and other clandestine and covert activities undertaken
in the United States in recent years and to do so in a manner
consistent with the protection of national security interests
and the constitutional rights of any of those who were or may
be under investigation.
While the use of wiretaps for national security
reasons was most widespread in the postwar, cold war years, it
diminished under Dwight Eisenhower, was stepped up again under
Attorney General Robert Kennedy, was reduced under Attorney
General Ramsey Clark and remains today in the first years after
the 1970s at about one-half of the level of the early to
mid-1960s.
I asked the President to allow this information to
be made public for these reasons: First, the absence of this
information is leaving the public with the false impression
that these types of activities are the exclusive province of
President Nixon's Administration, whereas they have been going
on with various intensity since President Roosevelt.
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- 4 -
Secondly, it is essential to do so in order to put in
proper perspective the debate as to whether in a free society
GERALD FORD LIBRARY
such means should be used at all and if so, when, and again to
lift the debate out of its present false context where the
President of the United States is on trial in the nation's
press for pursuing policies that were pursued extensively and
energetically by his predecessors.
The preliminary survey reveals the following statistics
and national security wiretaps. This data is subject to refine-
ments as the detailed search proceeds. In other words, the
figures will not be less. They may be a few more in the degree
of l's or 2's or 10 or 15 or something like that, but I would
not expect too much.
The figures, as best available today, subject to this
refinement that will be also announced, are, and I will read
them slowly: 1945, 519; 1946, 364; 1947, 374; 1948, 416; 1949,
471; 1950, 270; 1951, 285; 1952, 285; 1953, 300; 1954, 322;
1955, 214; 1956, 164; 1957, 173; 1958, 166; 1959, 120; 1960,
115; 1961, 140 -- and I will come back to that because there was
some testimony before the Judiciary Committee at that time --
1962, 198; 1963, 244; 1964, 260; 1965, 233 -- 1966 and 1967,
which were under Attorney General Ramsey Clark -- 1966, 174;
1967, 113; 1968, 82; 1969, 123; 1970, 102; 1971, 101, and 1972,
108.
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- 5 -
163ALD FORD LIBRARY
Now, in 1961 or '62, Attorney General Kennedy
testified in open hearing before the full Judiciary Committee
of the Senate and offered vast legislation greatly expanding
the authority of the Attorney General to engage in electronic
surveillance in aid of the discovery of a very large number of
felonies.
At that hearing, as I recall, the American Civil
Liberties Union appeared and opposed the bill -- I think it
was a Mr. Furman, if I remember -- and there were a number of
questions asked. There was considerable discussion as to
whether permission should be obtained from the Federal courts,
and so on, and the committee did not act favorably or unfavor-
ably on the bill. In fact, it refused to act at all.
What I am trying to point out here is the existence
of what I feel to be a double standard in that I am giving
this summary on my own authority. I made the request. I have
pursued it since with other members of the White House. I think
it important.
I make the point that these are the only wiretappings
carried out by the Federal Bureau of Investigation under Presi-
dential authority or under authority of law, and I will add
that the extent to which other activities by other agencies
may have involved such surveillance is presently under investi-
gation and such figures I have asked be released.
But the present wiretapping is the lowest level in
any Administration since World War II. It has been conducted
with more restraint and the President, I am informed, has not
used the Secret Service for electronic wiretapping in regard
to these offensives relative to national security. If they
have been used for any other purpose, that information will
be made available to you. I don't know of it. The only thing
that occurs in my mind would be counterfeiting.
I will be glad to respond to questions.
Q
Senator Scott, the figures you have given
since 1968, and the passage of the Safe Streets and Crime Con-
trol Act of that year which provided for certain other Govern-
ment wiretaps with a court order, basically in organized crime
cases -- your figures do not include, for the years '69 through
'72, those for which court permission was obtained, or do they?
That procedure didn't exist before '69.
SENATOR SCOTT: It did not exist, and I would have
to ask Mr. Timmons to ascertain that. I think they do not.
CONGRESSMAN FORD: It is my understanding that this
is a compilation of all FBI wiretaps, those that were used
prior to the Safe Streets Act and those that have been used
subsequently.
I
Before the Safe Streets Act, we don't have a
question of the ones that were under a warrant or some procedure
close to that. What I am uncertain about is '69 through '72,
whether these include the ones where they get permission from
the court because of organized crime or kidnapping or two or
two or three other things.
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- 6 -
SENATOR SCOTT: I think they 0, but we are
checking it.
GERALD FORD LIBRARY
CONGRESSMAN FORD: It is my understanding it is all-
encompassing.
Q
Senator, would you assess the effect of these
figures on the Supreme Court decision that wiretaps for domestic
security purposes were illegal?
SENATOR SCOTT: I would think it fair to say that
there was very widespread wiretapping in previous Administra-
tions and that the decisions of the courts would have contributed
to the impact, but I think, more importantly, the decision of
this Administration was not to engage in the same widespread,
prevalent wiretapping which was used by other Administrations,
and this Administration did not, contrary to the action of the
previous Administration, ask for enlargement of its powers to
apply to numerous crimes, including a great many listed felonies.
Q
Does this include the wiretaps of the plumbers
as well as the FBI?
SENATOR SCOTT: This refers to all wiretaps carried
out under Presidential authority or under authority of law. As
relates to any wiretaps carried out in violation of law, it
would not apply.
Q.
Does it include bugging, or just wiretaps?
SENATOR SCOTT: Well, it includes electronic sur-
veillance, which would be broad enough to include everything.
Q
The wiretaps that were in dispute recently were
for alleged domestic subversion, that being the controversial
aspect of it. In other words, there wasn't a tie-in with a
foreign power. How many of these previous wiretaps were for what
you would call legitimate national security reasons?
SENATOR SCOTT: Well, I couldn't possibly break down
each wiretap. I can tell you that a very considerable number
of wiretaps under previous Administrations were in pursuance
of information which had to do with what the then Attorney Gen-
eral regarded as domestic security as well as security against
foreign powers, but security in protection of the Federal Gov-
ernment at that time.
For instance, if you go into it far enough, you
will find wiretaps involving syndicates in organized crime. You
will find other wiretaps. We tried to get them in the Rules
Committee in the Bobby Baker case, but we were defeated by 5 to 4
partisan vote, as we were in the attempt to get the FBI files.
Q
Senator, you did have a breakdown on the newsmen
and there were supposedly four. Do you have any breakdown on
previous wiretaps on newsmen?
SENATOR SCOTT: I have not asked for and will not ask
for the names here because I think it is important to protect
the innocent. I know only that civil rights leaders were in-
volved and newsmen were involved, and there were a great deal
more than four altogether. The number was considerably larger.
MORE
- 7 -
QUESTION: Senator Scott, do you approve -- without
GERALOR FORO LIBRARY
quarreling with your assertion that newsmen were tapped in
previous Administrations -- of the government wiretapping
newsmen's phones?
SENATOR SCOTT: I think it depends. I think it
depends on the circumstances which would have to be passed on
in accordance with the law, the law which carries with it very
careful safeguards. It is not my judgment that counts but
whether a federal judge would approve.
QUESTION: Not on the national security wiretaps.
You don't need to go to a federal judge.
SENATOR SCOTT: I would think if a newsman, being as
fallible presumably as anyone else, were engaged in espionage,
I think it would be proper to use electronic surveillance. If
you were engaged simply in an honest and energetic search for
information, which did not involve a danger to the security of
the United States, it would not be involved. I would never make
that judgment. Judgment would be made by a federal court.
Since June of 1972 every wiretap has needed a court
order, Mr. Warren tells me, so that the figures for the last
half of 1972 would not include wiretaps under court order in
domestic security cases. None of them, including organized
crime.
QUESTION: Senator, you say you are informed by Mr.
Warren since 1972 every wiretap has required a court order?
SENATOR SCOTT: Wiretaps involving organized crime
have required a court order and are not included in the 1972
figures since June.
QUESTION: Otherwise, the earlier ones were?
CONGRESSMAN FORD: All of them from the beginning to
the end involved national security.
SENATOR SCOTT: None of them involved organized crime.
QUESTION: Do these figures include the ones for which
warrants or court orders were obtained?
SENATOR SCOTT: In national security matters.
QUESTION: In your study of this matter, Senator Scott,
is there any prior indication that any Administration had some-
thing equivalent to the plumbers where a security apparatus
was set up outside the FBI.
SENATOR SCOTT: You are asking me whether previous
Administrations experienced violations of law, and I am unable
to answer that because if they did, an energetic press has
not been able to discover it, although you could have in the
Bobby Baker case when we implored you to do it.
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- 8 -
GERALD FORD LIBRARY
QUESTION: Senator, I am now hopelessly confused. A
statement has now been made by you and Mr. Warren that this
list of totals, year by year, does include all national security
wiretaps, national security wiretaps for which court orders
were obtained.
MR. WARREN: Some of them.
QUESTION: My impression was that one of the arguments
involved here is over the question of what constitutes national
security since the government does not need to go into a court
if it claims it is wiretapping for national security.
SENATOR SCOTT: Since June of 1972 ny understanding is
that the government always has to go into court, isn't that
right?
QUESTION: Even in national security cases involving
a connection with a foreign government?
SENATOR SCOTT: They have been so advised by the court,
I think. I am not too clear on that court decision. I will
be glad to check that.
QUESTION: I thought that case referred to so-called
internal security -------------------------
SENATOR SCOTT: You may be right.
QUESTION: And not involved in what is commonly called
national security.
SENATOR SCOTT: I do not have the answer for you.
QUESTION: We would certainly like to clear up what
categories are included in these totals.
SENATOR SCOTT: Mr. Warren will supply that for you.
QUESTION: Were you presented these figures in the
meeting with the President?
SENATOR SCOTT: No, I was not.
QUESTION: How did you get them?
SENATOR SCOTT: Mr. Timmons is the person to whom I
go in the liaison matters, and I got them this morning in talks
with Mr. Timmons and other members of the White House staff.
QUESTION: Did you talk to the President?
SENATOR SCOTT: The President is aware of this. I
talked to the President on the 22nd of May, and I talked to him
this morning and thanked him for making the figures available.
MORE
- 9 -
GERALD, FORD LIBRARY
Q
Senator Scott, your participation in the
Cabinet meetings now and the input and the fact that you can
set the agenda, is that part of the Watergate fallout and part
of the recognition of the White House --
SENATOR SCOTT: No; neither is the illness of any
foreign potentate. It has no more relation than that.
CONGRESSMAN FORD: I would say the increased coordi-
nation and cooperation that I indicated earlier, where we
will have one in three meetings with the President, where we
are setting the agenda, and where Senator Scott and I will
meet with the Cabinet is an outgrowth of our request early this
year when the President took office in January of 1973.
We felt then, as we do now, that in the last term
of the President it was necessary, if we wanted to get the
program through, to have a closer liaison between the Repub-
licans in the House and Senate, the Cabinet, the departments
and the White House, and this effort on our part, which has
now materialized, has produced results, and it started long
before the recent Senate committee hearings.
Q
Is this part of the recognition that the
President was too isolated under the old White House staff
system when Haldeman and Ehrlichman were running things?
CONGRESSMAN FORD: The request was made some time
before Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman left the White House.
Our people, including Senator Scott and myself, have felt for
some time if we were going to do the job we have to do that
we had to have a closer liaison with departments, with Cabinet
officers and with the White House, and it has now materialized.
SENATOR SCOTT: Our request was made around the 17th
or 18th of March.
Q
Was it only coincident that this was instituted
after Haldeman and Ehrlichman left?
CONGRESSMAN FORD: No, I think the groundwork was
laid well before that incident. As a matter of fact, the first
meeting was set about a month ago, and for some unanticipated
reason it was changed. We had two bipartisan leadership meet-
ings that had a higher priority. So this is the first one,
but it was planned at least a month ago.
I
Did you bring up anything about the Watergate
case to the President? Did you have anything to say to the
President about Watergate?
CONGRESSMAN FORD: No; not at all.
Q
What was on your agenda?
CONGRESSMAN FORD: I tried to outline it at the
outset: Closer initial cooperation between members of the
committees that are affected on the issue or the legislation
involved, with OMB, with the department, and then the whole
sequence of legislative steps that lead to the bill getting
down to the President.
MORE
- 10 -
GERALD FORD LIBRARY
Q
Did you talk about one specific thing that you
wanted to bring up today?
CONGRESSMAN FORD: We talked about one or two par-
ticular bills; for example, the one that is on the Floor of
the House today, the vocational rehabilitation bill, which is
legislation which was vetoed. The Senate sustained the veto.
There is a compromise bill where the President has won about
75 percent of the battle that he sought to achieve, and we talked
about what we were going to do in the House and what we hoped
the White House would do when the bill gets down here.
We talked about revenue sharing, the special revenue
sharing problem where the President, in the case of education
and housing, has recommended special revenue sharing, and how
the Democratic leadership apparently is not going to go along
with either one at this point. We discussed strategy and how
we might achieve that end result, if not this year, certainly
in the next fiscal year.
Q
That bill is about $130 million over the
present budget.
CONGRESSMAN FORD: About $350 million less than
what the bill was that the President vetoed, and in addition,
it substantially changes many of the administrative procedures
and layers that the President objected to, so the President, in
my opinion, has won about 75 percent of the battle.
Q
Did he say he would sign the bill?
CONGRESSMAN FORD: He didn't say he would sign it,
but it is my judgment that the bill that is on the Floor of
the House, when combined with the bill that is promptly coming
out of the Senate, will be acceptable.
SENATOR SCOTT: Let me clarify one thing, and I was
right in substantial part here.
The list does not include organized crime wiretaps,
just national security, in all cases. Since the Supreme Court
decision in 1972, all wiretaps, organized crime and national
security, required court order. The wiretaps on the list I
read you were obtained either by court order since 1972, the
middle of the year, or by the Attorney General's authorization,
if that helps.
I
On March 27th you told some people that the
President had authorized you to say we have nothing to hide in the
Watergate scandal. Is that still true?
SENATOR SCOTT: I think I told you that on March 20th,
not the 27th. I have spent about two weeks trying to correct
stories saying it was the 24th. But I said here in this room --
and I am pretty sure it was March 20th -- that I had talked to
the President and he had said the White House has nothing to
cover up.
At that time, I am convinced that that was his
belief and conviction. He has since made further statements
which speak for themselves and which indicate that there were
things which involved wrongdoing here and he has mentioned them.
I am not going any further.
MORE
- 11 -
FORD LIBRAGE
Q
In that same context, I wonder if I could ask
you what the present state of your feelings is with respect
to whether you think the President has said enough; whether
you think further statements are needed by the President?
What is your feeling on it now?
SENATOR SCOTT: I think that is for the President
to decide. He indicated in his lengthy statement that if
it were necessary to make further statements, he would do SO.
There will, in due time, be a press conference in which I
assume every question which can be thought of will be asked
him, and you can address those questions to him then.
The President is the best judge as to whether
further statements need to be made. I don't think he has to
reply to every rumor, every innuendo, every surmise or every
threat by frightened people who are in pursuit of the avoidance
of jail.
2
Do you have any indication from him how soon
he might hold his press conference?
SENATOR SCOTT: I have no direct indication. I
think you will get that from the people down here authorized
to speak, and they will tell you as soon as they are able to
tell you. I think it is a good idea. Governor Holton said
that. I agree.
Q
Senator, how would you describe the President's
general mood on Watergate? Is he angry? Does he feel perse-
cuted? How would you describe it?
SENATOR SCOTT: The President's mood is to go on with
the work of the country, notwithstanding what may be said
about him in any quarter; to get the Nation's business done;
to do those things which are necessary to maintain and in
some cases, I think, to restore the confidence of the country.
He is strong. He is going to be here for 3-1/2 years. He is
going to continue to engage in both foreign and domestic policy
decisions, and in the foreign policy decisions his record is
superior to that of any other President in this century, and
he has much more which I am sure he will do.
On the domestic side, he has the difficulty of
dealing with a Congress of the opposition. He has not been
overriden on a single veto this year. I think he notices, as
well as I do, that in the country at large the Watergate does
not seem to have affected the electoral results. In Pennsyl-
vania we had a judge elected on both tickets for the first
time in modern history in a statewide election the day the
Ervin committee opened its session.
So I think the President is, as I said before, of
strong heart and of high purpose. I think he knows what is
being attempted to be done to him and I think it is not going
to work.
Q
What do you mean by that?
SENATOR SCOTT: I will leave it where it stands.
MORE
- 12 -
QUESTION: Senator Scott, you have been quoted recentl
GETALO FORD LIBRARY
as expressing some unhappiness with the Administration's anti-
inflation policies. Did you tell the President about that
today?
SENATOR SCOTT: No, I am on the record that I think
we ought to consider a return to selective controls. I do
not know what the Administration thinks. The only conversation
with the President was in reference to the fact that the Demo-
cratic Senate Caucus had opted for a three-month freeze, and
that simply was brought up in the course of information as
to legislative programs.
I think my views are known. I am not an economist.
I don't know what restoration of controls will be best for the
country, but I think something needs to be done. I am assured
that something is under very active consideration. I do not
know what it is.
QUESTION: What was the President's reaction to the
Democrats in opting for a three-month freeze?
SENATOR SCOTT: There was no comment from him at all
on that. It was simply included in the report which Jerry
and I made of what is going on on Capitol Hill.
QUESTION: In view of the beating that the dollar is
taking in Europe and the new international crisis that seems
to be brewing up, would that not have been a proper subject
for you and Mr. Ford to discuss with the President this morning?
SENATOR SCOTT: It would, except that our agenda had
to do this morning with legislation pending and particularly
with legislation that had once been vetoed and with an improve-
ment in the cross-communication between ranking members of the
committees and the committee members of the minority on Adminis-
tration programs, so that this will undoubtedly be included in
other meetings.
The meetings are happening very rapidly now, and I
assume we will discuss it more at length when we get into a
meeting where the main topic will be economy rather than legis-
lative progress.
QUESTION: Senator, a minute ago, rather in passing,
you referred to Governor Holton's statement, and you said, "I
agree with that." Governor Holton, if I recall correctly,
suggested rather strongly a whole series of Presidential press con-
ferences, not just one, in which the President would respond
to questions about the Watergate case. Does your enforcement
extend to that?
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- 13 -
GERALD LIBRARY FORD
SENATOR SCOTT: No, because I only know what I see
in the papers, and on television, and the only thing I saw
on television was a presentation of Governor Holton, who was
carefully identified as a Republican, and a presentation of
Governor Lucey of Wisconsin, who was not identified as
McGovern's floor leader, and that upset me for a moment.
It shouldn't have. All that Governor Holton said
on the television, as I remember it, was that, yes, he thought
the President should hold a press conference or perhaps he
said more press conferences. I didn't hear the word "series."
That is up to the President.
I think press conferences are a good thing, and I am
sure he will hold that one and others to follow. It is not for
me to say how many he should have. That is for you to say.
(Laughter.)
QUESTION: How much good will that do us?
SENATOR SCOTT: I don't know.
QUESTION: Senator, seemingly out of context but
apparently not, you said "it" is not going to work. Would you
qualify "it"?
SENATOR SCOTT: I mean the general "get the President"
process. It is not going to work.
QUESTION: Senator, do you mean by that that you think
there is some sort of force at work or conspiracy among the
press or other organizations to get the President?
SENATOR SCOTT: I have never really bought conspiracy
theories. I think the people who wanted to beat Nixon in
November still want to beat him. That doesn't mean the press,
necessarily. It is how many votes were cast against him.
QUESTION: Do you mean this is a Democratic thing and
the Republicans -----
SENATOR SCOTT: No, I mean that people who felt they
would rather have seen another President still feel that way.
QUESTION: Do you include Senator Goldwater in that
category?
SENATOR SCOTT: No, Senator Goldwater hasn't said
things that would involve getting the President.
QUESTION: Senator, would you include those people
overseas who according to the best financial observers' reports
are indicating that part of the trouble in the gold run and the
weakness of the dollar is Watergate. Would you include those
people as wanting to get the President?
SENATOR SCOTT: I have taken in enough territory
without going into other countries, it seems to me, but I would
say the foreign Ambassadors with whom I have talked have pri-
vately expressed to me very strong confidence in the President
as a strong and effective man and very great hope that he will
surmount all the present difficulties. I would believe they are
so reporting to their people. I think the Sunday London Times
indicates somewhat the same thing.
MORE
- 14 -
Q
A clarifying question, I think, on these
statistics. .Do I understand they are confined only to national
security surveillance and they would exclude internal security
or organized crime?
SENATOR SCOTT: Yes.
GERALD LIBRARY FORD
Q
And the civil rights leaders and so forth
wouldn't be included in here, or newsmen?
SENATOR SCOTT: Not in the context of this Admin-
istration, but there have been surveillances of civil rights
leaders and newsmen by previous Administrations. I do not
undertake to say whether they had an excuse of national security
or not, but they were taken in the national security context.
What they were looking for, I don't know.
Q
Are those included in the numbers for previous
Administrations?
SENATOR SCOTT: They are. Under the category of
national security, they were so included. I say I don't know
whether national security was the real reason in going after
certain well known Americans.
CONGRESSMAN FORD: I think you have to put in context
the circumstances in some of these years. We had a number of
riots in major metropolitan areas. We had a number of riots
on campuses, attempts on campuses to get rid of the ROTC, and
a variety of other military activities.
Now, any wiretaps in this list would involve national
security, and logically could involve those kinds of circum-
stances.
Q
My problem, Mr. Ford, is that I don't know
whether the category --- you show lower figures for this Admin-
istration -- I don't know whether they are lower in part be-
cause certain categories of wiretaps which were included for
past Administrations are excluded for this one.
SENATOR SCOTT: The categories have not been
shuffled to make the figures look good. The categories apply
the same all the way back to World War II.
CONGRESSMAN FORD: The definition of national
security is identical, the last four years with the years
from 1945.
Q
Does that mean in the previous years there
were, in fact, more Government wiretaps than these that you
list here because they may have covered other areas than
national security?
SENATOR SCOTT: No.
CONGRESSMAN FORD: Conceivably, it could.
SENATOR SCOTT: The reason could be. National
security was the reason given. The motivation may have been
different.
MORE
- 15 -
GERALD FORD LIBRARY
Q
That was given even when they were tapping
organized crime in the Kennedy Administration. They called it
national safety in some years. But the totals given seem to
be the total FBI wiretaps for those years, because they called
everything national security. Therefore, since you don't call
everything national security in this Administration, the
figures may be lower than the total.
CONGRESSMAN FORD: I will say categorically the
definition of national security has not been changed in the
compilation of these figures.
SENATOR SCOTT: Nor would anybody be justified in
assuming from anything I have said that these figures refer
to a different type of electronic surveillance or for a reason
different from that which this Administration has used. The
only distinction I made under pressure of questions was --
and a proper distinction -- that we don't know what the moti-
vation was in previous years.
But you would not be justified in writing that
these figures have been shuffled to show a lower figure by
this Administration. The answer categorically is that they
have not.
Q
Why couldn't you have given the total number
of wiretaps in any given year when you made the request? Is there
a reason that was impossible?
SENATOR SCOTT: We did get the total number of wire-
taps from the FBI. If there are other wiretaps, they will be
given to you. They are in the process of investigating them
now. I have brought you this as quickly as I could.
I
Senator, you said before, "He knows," referring
to the President. You said, "He knows" and then you went on
to say -- and I cannot quote you -- to say that there are some
people WHO are out to get the President, and then you said
this is not going to work.
Now, in what context did the President saY this to
you when you quoted him as saying "He knows"?
SENATOR SCOTT: The President didn't say it to me.
I don't know why I said, "He knows." I think he probably is
aware of what is going on in the country. I don't think there
is any question of that. What I mean is, it isn't going to work
and he is going to be the President, and he is going to be a
strong President and he is going to be a good President, and
the ministers of foreign countries in this country, so far as
my interviews would warrant, are pulling for him to do it.
His successes are necessary to the world's stability, too,
and I have confidence that is what will happen.
Q
Do you have full confidence that the Ervin
committee is not out to get the President?
SENATOR SCOTT: I don't think the Ervin committee
is out to get the President.
Q
Then who is it that is out to get the President?
SENATOR SCOTT: I think there is enough material
here for you to speculate on that.
THE PRESS: Thank you, gentlemen.
END
(AT 11:40 A.M. EDT)
THE WHITE HOUSE
0/5/73
/
Pres Nowon introduced Herry K assign
year of - Europe/Para Place Negotiations to
H/R - European country - -libe appear
to stand up No a/.s. Kennedy polices
Franch is crucal - were a failure
Iceland 100% achieved
abjectives. Common Defense - Schleamy
Trade - Schuth,
should there be a Summet ?
President hr never proposed.
- 2/ procedure to agreed
R.N. - if alhance no not shoned-up there
to YES.
will be a mad mush to Moscow USSR
could pick off European nations one by one."
H/K in Paris 1 to insist on complaned
1). no trop withdomal Canhwhin
Every wrolating -1/
- Thos
3) Infolmation
M,Hs
[Photocopied From Ford Scrapbooks,
Box 14, Notes on White House
Meeting S, 1973-74]
GERALD FORD LIBRABY
PROPOSED AGENDA FOR MEETING WITH PRESIDENT
AND JOINT REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP
(1)
Prompt follow-through on submitting legislative
requests contained in Presidential messages and
pre-consultation on proposed legislative proposals
with senior Republican committee members and
leadership. (15 minutes)
(2)
Earlier Administration signal on their position
on bills before hearings. (5 minutes)
/
(3)
Earlier consultation on political appointments.
(15 minutes)
(4)
What happens to appropriations if special revenue
sharing fails? (10 minutes)
(5)
Is compromise possible on any of remaining bills
subject to possible vetoes? (10 minutes)
(6)
Request White House Chief of Staff attend, periodi-
cally, the joint House-Senate Leadership meetings on
the Hill. (5 minutes)
(7)
Labor Department emergency ban on fruit orchard pesticides.
(5 minutes)
Memorandum for Mr. Ford in regard to the announced emergency
FORD LIBRARY & SERALD
temporary standards relating to the re-entry of orchards, groves and
fields following the application of organophosphorous pesticides:
1. Under date of September 1, 1973, Migrant Legal Action Program,
Inc., et al (a total of twelve environmental and legal aid organizations),
submitted a petition ot the Occupational Safety and Health Administration
which in part, requested the promulgation of emergency temporary standards
pertaining to pesticides.
2. On March 15, 1973, Organized Migrants in Community Action, Inc.,
filed a civil action in the Distri ct Court of the District of Columbia
(Civil Action No. 502-73), being a complaint for declaratory and injuctive
relief against the Secretary of Labor, seeking a temporary emergency
standard with reference to re-entry after application of pesticides. (The
relief sought in the cited action was pursuant to Section 6 (c) (1) of the
Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 (P.L. 91-596)
3. Under date of April 19, 1973, the Assistant Secretary of Labor
for Occupational Safety and Health Act signed an order entitled, "Emergency
Temporary Standard for Exposure to Organophosphorous Pesticides" which was
published in the Federal Register of Tuesday, May 1, 1973, at Page 10715.
The effective date was stated as June 18, 1973.
4. In justification of the cited order, the Assistant Secretary of
Labor referred to a statistic published in Senate Report No. 91-1282, 91st
Congress, Second Session (1970), in which it was stated that, "an estimated
800 persons are killed each year as a result of improper use of such
pesticides, and another 80,000 injured."
5. Examination of the record of the cited hearings reflect that
no credible substantiating data were submitted in support of such statistics.
(Obviously, a casual reference in a 1970 report hardly substantiates an
"emergency" declared in 1973.)
6. Following promulgation of the temporary emergency standard by the
Occupational Safety and Health Administration, it is understood that the
action in the federal courts was not further pressed by the migratory labor
group and other petitioners.
7. Under date of May 9, 1973, Dr. F. S. Arant, Chairman of the
Subcommittee on Pesticides of the Advisory Committee on Occupational Safety
and Health in Agriculture, a group advisory to OSHA, resigned by letter to
Assistant Secretary of Labor, John Stender. In his letter of resignation,
Dr. Arant, a recognized authority on pesticide effects, cited data countering
the alleged emergency set forth by OSHA as justification of its order.
8. Under date of May 17, 1973, approximately sixty members of the
GERALD FORD LIBRARY
House of Representatives directed a letter to the President asking recon-
sideration and modification of the order referred to above.
9. At various times following the promulgation of the so-called
emergency temporary order, groups in agriculture, including the American
Farm Bureau Federation and fruit grower and tobacco grower organizations,
individually and in concert, filed actions in U. S. Courts of Appeals in
Washington, Chicago, New Orleans and San Francisco seeking suspension and
review of the subject order. These actions pend, with court orders requiring
response by OSHA on dates ranging from June 8, 1973 to June 11, 1973,
inclusive. (Additionally, these groups petitioned OSHA directly for sus-
pension or revocation of the order complained of.)
10. OSHA has suggested that an appropriate remedy for individual
employers, or groups of employers, would be an application for variance or
exception from the order, on the grounds that such employers, or groups of
employers, had taken steps assuring workers of protection equal to that
proposed by the subject order. This is an impractical recourse because,
first, it assumes acceptance of the validation of the order complained of,
and in addition, it is a protracted process in which any employee may petition
for hearing, involving substantial delays running well past the effective
date of the subject order.
HIGHLIGHTS OF HOUSE ACTION, MAY 23, 1973 THROUGH JUNE 4, 1973
Wednesday, May 23, 1973
GERALD R. FORD LIBRARY
FLOOD INSURANCE
The House passed and cleared for the President S.J. Res. 112, increasing
from $4 billion to $6 billion the limitation on the face amount of
flood insurance authorized to be outstanding.
OMB DIRECTOR -- VETO VOTE
By a record vote of 236 yeas to 178 nays, the House sustained the
President's veto of S. 518, providing that appointments to the offices
of Director and Deputy Director of the Office of Management and Budget
shall be subject to confirmation by the Senate (two-thirds present
not voting to override). (GRF - Nay; Speaker - NV)
Yea
Nay
NV
Total
Rep.
18
167
7
192
Dem.
218
11
12
241
236
178
19
433
INTEREST RATES
The House disagreed to the amendment of the Senate to H.R. 6370, to
extend certain laws relating to the payment of interest on time and
savings deposits, to prohibit depository institutions from permitting
negotiable orders of withdrawal to be made with respect to any deposit
or account on which any interest or dividend is paid, to authorize
Federal savings and loan associations and national banks to own stock
in and invest in loans to certain State housing corporations, and
agreed to a conference asked by the Senate. Appointed as conferees:
Representatives Patman, St. Germain, Annunzio, Barrett, Hanley,
Brasco, Cotter, Moakley, Ashley, Widnall, Rousselot, Johnson of Pennsylvania,
Wylie, J. William Stanton, and Brown of Michigan.
NASA AUTHORIZATION
RULE
By a voice vote, the House adopted H. Res. 409, providing for one
hour of open debate.
PASSAGE
By a record vote of 322 yeas to 73 nays, the House passed H.R. 7528,
to authorize appropriations to the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration for research and development, construction of facili-
ties, and research and program management. (GRF - Yea; Speaker - NV)
Yea
Nay
NV
Total
Rep.
151
27
14
192
Dem.
171
46
24
241
322
73
38
433
(MORE)
-2-
Wednesday, May 23, 1973 (continued)
NASA AUTHORIZATION (cont'd)
FORD LIBRARY & GERALD
RECOMMIT
By a voice vote, the House rejected a motion by Mr. Myers to recommit
the bill to the Committee on Science and Astronautics.
Prior to final passage of the bill, by a recorded vote of 104 yeas
to 294 nays, the House rejected an amendment by Mr. Rangel that
sought to prohibit the use of funds for tracking and data ac-
quisition in South Africa. (GRF - Nay; Speaker - NV)
Yea
Nay
NV
Total
Rep.
15
161
16
192
Dem.
89
133
19
241
104
294
35
433
Thursday, May 24, 1973
CONDOLENCE RESOLUTION
Agreed to H. Res. 411, expressing the condolences and sympathy of the
House on the death of Representative Mills of Maryland. Appointed
appointed members of the funeral committee.
FORMER MEMBERS
Pursuant to a unanimous-consent agreement of March 7, 1973, the House
went into recess at 12:34 p.m. and received former Members of Congress.
Reconvened at 1:35 p.m.
Tuesday, May 29, 1973
DOLLAR PAR VALUE
RULE
By a record vote of 299 yeas to 9 nays, with 1 voting "present", the
House adopted H. Res. 408, providing for one hour of open debate.
Yea
Nay
P
NV
Total
Rep.
142
4
1
44
191
Dem.
157
5
0
79
241
299
9
1
123
432
PASSAGE
By a record vote of 281 yeas to 36 nays, with 3 voting "present,"
the House passed H.R. 6912, to amend the Par Value Modification
Act.
(MORE)
-3-
Tuesday, May 29, 1973 (continued)
DOLLAR PAR VALUE (cont'd)
FORD LIBRARY & GERALD
PASSAGE (repeating)
By a record vote of 281 yeas to 36 nays, with 3 voting "present,"
the House passed H.R. 6912, to amend the Par Value Modification
Act. (GRF - Yea; Speaker - NV)
Yea
Nay
P
NV
Total
Rep.
139
12
1
39
191
Dem.
142
24
2
73
241
281
36
3
112
432
RECOMMIT
By a voice vote, the House rejected a motion by J. William Stanton
to recommit the bill to the Committee on Banking and Currency.
Prior to final passage, the House took the following action:
By a recorded vote of 162 yeas to 162 nays, with 3 voting "present"
rejected an amendment by Mr. Crane that sought to permit private
purchase, sale, and ownership of gold after December 31, 1973.
(GRF - Nay; Speaker - NV)
Yea
Nay
P
NV
Total
Rep.
95
59
1
36
191
Dem.
67
103
2
69
241
162
162
3
105
432
By a recorded vote of 100 yeas to 218 nays, with 3 voting "present"
rejected an amendment by Mr. Gross that sought to strike out
language that provides for Presidential determination and approval
of private gold ownership. (GRF - Nay; Speaker - NV)
Yea
Nay
P
NV
Total
Rep.
62
90
0
39
191
Dem.
38
128
3
72
241
100
218
3
111
432
Wednesday, May 30, 1973
NATIONAL VISITOR CENTER
RULE
By a voice vote, the House adopted H. Res. 405, providing for one
hour of open debate.
(MORE)
-4-
Wednesday, May 30, 1973 (continued)
FORD LIBRARY & GERALD
NATIONAL VISITOR CENTER (cont'd)
PASSAGE
By a recorded vote of 288 yeas to 75 nays, the House passed H.R. 5857,
to amend the National Visitors Center Facilities Act of 1968.
(GRF - NV; Speaker - NV)
Yea
Nay
NV
Total
Rep.
116
49
26
191
Dem.
172
26
43
241
288
75
69
432
J.F.K. CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS
RULE
By a voice vote, the House adopted H. Res. 406, providing for one
hour of open debate.
PASSAGE
By a recorded vote of 260 yeas to 100 nays, the House passed H.R. 5858,
authorizing further appropriations to the Secretary of the Interior
for services necessary to the nonperforming arts functions of the
John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. (GRF - NV; Speaker - NV)
Yea
Nay
NV
Total
Rep.
85
80
26
191
Dem.
175
20
46
241
260
100
72
432
INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR FOREIGN CHANCERIES
RULE
By a voice vote, the House adopted H. Res. 407, providing for one
hour of open debate.
PASSAGE
By a voice vote, the House passed H.R. 6830, authorizing an addi-
tional appropriation for an International Center for Foreign
Chanceries.
Subsequently, this passage was vacated, and S. 1235, an identical
Senate-passed bill was passed in lieu, clearing the measure for
the President.
(MORE)
-5-
Wednesday, May 30, 1973 (continued)
GERALD FORD LIBRARY
AIRPORTS AND AIRWAYS
The House agreed to the conference report on S. 38, to amend the Air-
port and Airway Development Act of 1970, as amended, to increase the
U.S. share of allowable project costs under such act, to amend the
Federal Aviation Act of 1958, as amended, to prohibit certain State
taxation of persons in air commerce, clearing the measure for Senate
action.
Thursday, May 31, 1973
DOLLAR PAR VALUE
The House disagreed to the amendment of the Senate to H.R. 6912, to
amend the Par Value Modification Act, and agreed to a conference
asked by the Senate. Appointed as conferees: Representatives Patman,
Gonzalez, Reuss, Moorhead of Pennsylvania, Rees, Hanna, Young of Georgia,
Stark, Stephens, Widnall, Johnson of Pennsylvania, J. William Stanton,
Crane, Frenzel, and Conlan.
PEACE CORPS AUTHORIZATION
The House disagreed to the amendments of the Senate of H.R. 5293, au-
thorizing additional appropriations for the Peace Corps, and agreed
to a conference asked by the Senate. Appointed as conferees: Repre-
sentatives Morgan, Zablocki, Hays, Fascell, Mailliard, Frelinghuysen,
and Broomfield.
FOREIGN SERVICE BUILDINGS
The House disagreed to the amendments of the Senate to H.R. 5610, to
amend the Foreign Service Buildings Act, 1926, and agreed to a con-
ference asked by the Senate. Appointed as conferees: Representatives
Hays, Morgan, Zablocki, Mailliard, and Thomson of Wisconsin.
PASSPORT FEE
The House passed H.R. 7317, to authorize the U.S. Postal Service to
continue to receive the fee of $2 for execution of an application
for a passport.
PUBLIC HEALTH PROGRAMS
RULE
By a voice vote, the House adopted H. Res. 418, providing for one
hour of open debate.
(MORE)
-6-
FORD
&
Thursday, May 31, 1973 (continued)
GERALD
LIBRARY
PUBLIC HEALTH PROGRAMS (cont'd)
By a recorded vote of 372 yeas to 1 nay, the House passed H.R. 7806, to
extend through fiscal year 1974 certain expiring appropriations au-
thorizations in the Public Health Service Act, the Community Mental
Health Centers Act, and the Developmental Disabilities Services and
Facilities Construction Act. (GRF - Yea; Speaker - NV) (Crane voted "Nay")
Yea
Nay
NV
Total
Rep.
169
1
21
191
Dem.
203
0
38
241
372
1
59
432
Subsequently, this passage was vacated and S. 1136, a similar Senate-
passed bill, was passed in lieu after being amended to contain the
language of the House bill as passed.
BIOMEDICAL RESEARCH
RULE
By a voice vote, the House adopted H. Res. 417, providing for one
hour of open debate.
PASSAGE
By a recorded vote of 361 yeas to 5 nays, the House passed H.R. 7724,
to establish a national program of biomedical research fellowships,
traineeships, and training to assure the continued excellence of
biomedical research in the United States. (GRF - Yea; Speaker - NV)
Yea
Nay
NV
Total
Rep.
158
5
28
191
Dem.
203
0
38
241
361
5
66
432
PRIOR TO FINAL PASSAGE, by a recorded vote of 354 yeas to 9 nays,
the House agreed to an amendment by Mr. Roncallo, that prohibits
live fetus research. (GRF - Yea; Speaker - NV)
Yea
Nay
NV
Total
Rep.
161
2
28
191
Dem.
193
7
41
241
354
9
69
432
EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES
RULE
By a voice vote, the House adopted H. Res. 415, providing for one
hour of open debate.
(MORE)
-7-
Thursday, May 31, 1973 (continued)
EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES (cont'd)
FORD LIBRARY & GERALD
By a recorded vote of 261 yeas to 96 nays, the House passed H.R. 6458,
to authorize assistance for planning, development and initial opera-
tion, research, and training projects for systems for the effective
provision of health care services under emergency conditions.
(GRF - Nay; Speaker - NV)
Yea
Nay
NV
Total
Rep.
72
88
31
191
Dem.
189
8
44
241
261
96
75
432
Subsequently, this passage was vacated, and S. 504, a similar
Senate-passed bill was passed in lieu after being amended to
contain the language of the House bill as passed.
RAILROAD RETIREMENT
RULE
By a voice vote, the House adopted H. Res. 416, providing for one
hour of open debate.
PASSAGE
By a voice vote, the House passed H.R. 7357, to amend section 4(1) (I)
of the Railroad Retirement Act of 1937 to simplify administration
of the act, and to amend section 226(e) of the Social Security Act
to extend kidney disease medicare coverage to railroad employees,
their spouses, and their dependent children.
Monday, June 4, 1973
THE HOUSE CONSIDERED THE CONSENT CALENDAR
CAPITOL POLICE
The House voted to suspend the rules and agree to H. Res. 398, by a
roll call vote of 299 yeas to 0 nays, providing for the promotions to
positions of a supervisory capacity on the U. S. Capitol Police force
authorized for duty under the House of Representatives and to reduce
by 15 positions the total number of positions on such force under the
House.
Yea
Nay
NV
Total
Rep.
145
0
46
191
Dem.
154
0
87
241
299
0
133
432
(MORE)
-8-
Monday, June 4, 1973 (continued)
GERALD FORD LIBRARY
SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS
Objection was heard to a unanimous-consent request to send to con-
ference H.R. 7447, making supplemental appropriations for fiscal
year 1973.
PROGRAM AHEAD
Tuesday, June 5, 1973, and Wednesday, June 6, 1973
PRIVATE CALENDAR
SUSPENSIONS (Three Bills)
1. H. R. 8070 - Rehabilitation Act of 1973
2. H. R. 1820 - Conveyance of Real Property by Arkansas to United
States
3. H. R. 3620 - Establish Great Dismal Swamp National Wildlife Refuge
H.R. 7935 - Fair Labor Standards Amendments of 1973
(OPEN RULE, THREE HOURS OF DEBATE)
Thursday, June 7, 1973, and Balance of Week
H. Res. 382 - Disapproving Reorganization Plan No. 2
H. R. 7645 - Department of State Authorization Act of 1973
(SUBJECT TO A RULE BEING GRANTED)
H. R. 5464 - Saline Water Program Authorization, FY 1974
(SUBJECT TO A RULE BEING GRANTED)
H. R. 7670 - Maritime Authorization, Department of Commerce, FY 1974
(SUBJECT TO A RULE BEING GRANTED)
H. R. 7446 - Establish the American Revolution Bicentennial Administration
(SUBJECT TO A RULE BEING GRANTED)
# # #