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Interview of the President by Irving Kupcinet on the Irving Kupcinet Show [Ford Speech or Statement]
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Interview of the President by Irving Kupcinet on the Irving Kupcinet Show [Ford Speech or Statement]
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Digitized from Box 15 of the White House Press Releases at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE UNTIL
SUNDAY, AUGUST 31, 1975 *** 6:00 D.M. EDT
August 25, 1975
INTERVIEW OF THE PRESIDENT
BY
IRVING KUPCINET
ON THE
IRVING KUPCINET SHOW
THE PALMER HOUSE
CHICAGO, ILLINOIS
8:30 A.M. CDT
MR. KUPCINET: Ladies and gentlemen, we are proud
to present the President of the United States in a special
session of Kup's show.
Mr. President, it is so gracious of you to give
us this time to air your views and to let the public see
how good you look after that Vail vacation.
THE PRESIDENT: Kup, it is a great opportunity
for me to renew our longstanding acquaintanceship, which goes
back more years than we would like to admit.
MR. KUPCINET: We can say 40 years. That is
all right, Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: It is rather interesting to me
how a relationship that has grown over the years got started
right here in the City of Chicago, when you and I were on
the All-Star Team back in 1935. I have enjoyed the relation-
ship, and I look forward to the opportunity this morning to
talk about some things.
Why don't you start off?
MR. KUPCINET: Very good.
First, I would like to let the public know that
we are taping this at 8:30 in the morning, and the President
has me at a disadvantage. He has been up since 5:45 -- if
I know your schedule -- so this is almost the middle of the
day for you, Mr. President.
Page 2
THE PRESIDENT: I have always been an early riser,
and we have a busy schedule today. I am just delighted to
have a chance to talk with you and to get an exposure to the
wonderful audience you have all over the country.
MR. KUPCINET: Mr. President, that is very
gracious of you.
Let me ask you, has your vacation been disturbed
in any way whatsoever by some of the reaction to your wife's
camments?
THE PRESIDENT: Kup, let me try to put it in
perspective.
In the first place, Betty and I, over a period of
20 some years, have had a wonderful marriage. We have
great admiration and affection and love for one another.
Our family has been very close.
We have three sons and a daughter. Each of the
children, as well as my wife, have their own views. They
express them, but it is done within the context of a very,
very close family.
The fact that each of them can speak their own
mind and the views differ doesn't mean that the closeness
of the family in any way whatsoever has been disturbed.
I think it is also important to point out the
great responsibility that Betty has had over a period of 27
years to raise the family while I, as a person in the
political arena, have been out campaigning for other
candidates, campaigning for myself, and the net result is
that Betty has had the principal responsibility of raising
the children, and I happen to think she has done a fine job.
She has established a high moral standard for the
children, and they have lived up to those standards. So,
her views have to be put in the context of what she has done
in the raising of four children.
What she was trying to do was to explain to the
American people that you have to have very close relation-
ship to the children, and if you have that relationship,
if you have that understanding with children as they grow
from youngsters to young people, the net result is that they
do live by a high moral standard, which I think is the right
way to bring children up.
Page 3
If you set an example, if you give them guide-
lines, if you have understanding and love for them, then
the net result is the children will follow the standards
and the examples.
MR. KUPCINET: You have four wonderful children,
as everybody knows. I got a big kick out of the press at
your farewell party in Vail, Colorado, when the press
sersnaded you to the tunes of "My Fair Lady," and one of
which was "I have grown accustomed to her views" in
deference to Betty's comments.
THE PRESIDENT: I am proud of her, and I happen
to think that, if you understand what has been done by
her views toward the children, and her views on certain
moral issues, she has done a good job, and I am very proud
of ter.
MR. KUPCINET: I hope, as a member of the press,
Mr. President, that the press doesn't now feel it has a
mandate to inquire into all of your sexual and private
matters and that this situation can be put to rest at this
moment.
THE PRESIDENT: I think it, being highlighted
and explained and understood, will now get us back on
some of the substantive issues that are important to
America, and I am ready to answer any of those questions.
Page 4
MR. KUPCINET: Before we leave your charming wife, though,
she did make a very good point that, as a woman, she is very
interested in seeing that there is a woman on the Supreme
Court someday and I wonder if you have given any attention or
any thought that, if a vacancy occurs, that a woman would be
a cancidate?
THE PRESIDENT: Of course I have to be most cautious
inasm th as there is no vacancy at the present time and any
premature discussions, Kup, of a vacancy, I think, would be
inappropriate on my part. But I believe the record of my
appointments of women to positions of responsibility is a
good one. We have the first woman Secretary of the Department
of HUD in Carla Hills, and she is doing a fine job. We have,
for the first time, a woman the head of the NLRB, and we
have cther women appointed to positions of responsibility.
Yes, if and when there was a vacancy on the Supreme
Court, we certainly would consider a qualified woman for that
position of great responsibility.
MR. KUPCINET: I just wanted to give you a chance to
answer that, Mr. President, so Betty won't have to poke you
in the ribs to prompt you.
THE PRESIDENT: She will prompt me, don't worry about
that.
MR. KUPCINET: Mr. President, you have served a full
year now in ascendancy to the Oval Office and I wonder if
you feel that your political views have changed considerably.
Have you moved from being the conservative of your congressional
days to more of the middle ground as President of all the
people?
THE PRESIDENT: Irv, I always thought that I did
represent a middle ground in the political spectrum. Some of
the critics who have said I was on the extreme right, I don't
believe really analyzed my political voting record.
Page !
I would add this, however, as President you have to
be more realistic and you have to be very cognizant of the
practicality of representing 214 million Americans who come
from Large urban areas as well as those who come from the
more mural areas of our country and, in being President, I
think you have to sort of bring those elements together and
see how you can, on one issue and another, integrate the views
of thei total population, the workingman, the professional man,
the businessman, the people who are less well off, the dis-
advantaged in our country. It is a practical analysis of what
is good for the total population rather than what views you
represented when I had the honor of representing some five or
six hundred thousand people in a congressional district.
MR. KUPCINET: Does it disturb you, Mr. President,
when the right wing of the Republican Party says you are not
conservative enough and the other elements say you are not
progressive enough? Abraham Lincoln had a comment about that
once when he said, "People attack me from the left and the
right, then I know I am doing something right."
THE PRESIDENT: As we sit down to analyze a problem
and what a legislative action or administration action can
do to solve the problem, we do have to be very pragmatic
about it and, when we are attacked by the extreme left or
extreme right, I think you can say, if there is any solace
to the criticism, that you are probably on the right track
because the extremes on either side are the ones that are
attacking you.
I, as we try to analyze the options we have, seek
to come up with a solution that is acceptable to the majority
of the American people and, whether it is in the field of
energy, or the economy, or foreign policy, this is the approach
that we adopt in the White House, trying to get an answer that
works, regardless of the label that some people put on it.
MR. KUPCINET: Mr. President, with a full year in
the White House there, I might take a moment just to reflect
back on what has happened during that first year and I wonder
if you have any second thoughts about some of the major
developments, like the appointment of Rockefeller as your
Page
Vice President, which has come under criticism by the conser-
vatives, the pardon of the former President Nixon, the
slowness in developing programs, which I think is a deliberate
part of your policy in making sure they are right before you
go into anything, the Solzhenitsyn incident, failing to invite
him to the White House. Do you have any second thoughts on
these incidents which have come under criticism, or discussion
at least?
THE PRESIDENT: Let me take each of those, Kup, and
give you my analysis.
First, in my judgment the selection of Nelson
Rockefeller as Vice President was absolutely the right decision.
Here was a man who had been Governor of a large, large State
for 15 years. He had vast political, administrative, govern-
mental experience. He has taken over the position of Vice
President, done it extremely well. He is energetic, he is
an idea man, he has cooperated as a team player extremely
well. His energy is unlimited. He has a good staff. He
has done a fine job as Chairman of the Domestic Council.
He has handled the investigation of the CIA and the intelligence
community in a very forthright and productive way.
I think Nelson Rockefeller has performed extremely
admirably in a very difficult situation.
There was criticism, of course, of my pardon of
former President Nixon. In retrospect, I think most people
today agree that that decision early in the Administration
was a wise one, otherwise every month that passed, there
would have been questions raised if and when I was going to
do something. So the timing was better at the beginning
rather than as time went on. It would have festered, it would
have been a continuous question raised that would have kept
my concentration away from the problems of the economy, energy,
foreign policy, et cetera.
In the case of Mr. Solzhenitsyn, it probably would have
been better to have seen him, although, as I am sure you know
at the present time, he has an open invitation to come to the
White House. I would be glad to sit down and talk with him.
Page 7
On the other hand, I must admit we probably didn't handle the
initial incident as well as we might have.
MR. KUPCINET: What about the other issue, the
deliberate -- I presume it is deliberate -- slowness in
developing programs in your first year, the caution with which
you have been operating, sort of slowing down the whole
tendency of the White House?
THE PRESIDENT: Let me say, first, when I was a
member of the House of Representatives and the Minority Leader
I voted for welfare reform. I think something has to be done
affirmatively either by making the rules tighter under the
present program or I believe there has to be a total revamping
of the welfare program.
I voted for a new welfare program twice in the
House of Representatives. At that time I thought that was a
better approach than trying to tighten up the existing program.
We have a study now going on that will be continued to see
what can be done in this area.
When I was in the Congress I advocated a
responsible new health insurance program that would be broad,
would be comprehensive. We are in the process now of taking
a look at how we can improve the health delivery system in
this country.
But in December of last year, I was faced with
mounting government expenditures, a vast, a tremendous deficit
of $52 billion. And in light of the fiscal crisis that we
faced, it was my judgment at that time that instead of a
number of new programs that would have a serious impact on
our federal fiscal situation, increasing the federal deficit
in this current fiscal year, it was my feeling that I should
adopt a "no new program approach" until we got our federal
fiscal affairs in order.
We are in the process now of making some headway
in that regard.
Page
I don't want to forecast that that problem has
been totally solved, it hasn't, primarily because the Congress
has been continuously adding to the budget recommendations I
have made and every time they want to spend a billion more or
a two billion greater amount, that adds to the deficit. So
we are still trying to hold the line. Depending on how we
come cut in this situation where the Congress wants to spend
more oney on old programs and where I am trying to hold the
line TO we can have some flexibility for some new programs,
I am ping to reserve judgment as to whether or not we
continue the policy of no new programs for the next fiscal
year
MR. KUPCINET: Mr. President, were you surprised
with your success with the veto, the record number of 35 or
37 vetoes in a heavily Democratic Congress and which you have
been able to dominate?
THE PRESIDENT: Irv, I was pleasantly surprised.
After the November elections of 1974 where my party was over-
whelmingly defeated in the House and Senate elections, I must
admit I didn't think we had the votes to sustain a number of
vetoes. But we have had some support from a surprising number
of Democrats, and I thank them for it. And we have had a
higher degree of Republican unanimity in the House and
Senate and the combination has been such that we could systain
all but one veto in 1975.
I think this is a tribute to our system where
you get not only your own party to support you to a higher
degree but you get a number of the opposition party who have
a broader interest in doing what they think is right rather
than just blindly supporting the party of their own choice.
Page I
MR. KUPCINET: Mr. President, you get an awful
lot of advice, you know, from so many people. Quite a
few articles have appeared in the papers just recently I
would like to bring your attention to. One situation is the
014 price situation, on which you may make a decision before
we even get on the air, but the head of Mobil Oil Corporation
eaplier today has asked you to go slow in reducing the
decontrol of the oil prices.
Is this going to affect your decision, which
has to be made at the end of this month, in a couple of
days?
THE PRESIDENT: Kup, I think you have to put
my decision here in proper perspective. Twice -- before
Congress went on vacation -- I submitted plans for a
phased decontrol of old oil prices.
First, I said, instead of a precipitous cut-off,
or a precipitous release of old oil prices, I recommended
a 30-month phased decontrol, which would have meant about
3.5 percent over a period of 30 months. Regrettably,
the Congress rejected that.
In another gesture on my part to show compromise
and willingness to negotiate, I submitted a 39-month phased
decontrol. I was amazed -- in fact, I was really dumb-
founded, Irv -- that the Congress rejected a second effort
to have a phased decontrol.
Once the Congress refused to compromise at all.
I felt that there was no choice but to veto the six-month
extension of the existing law.
We have analyzed the overall situation, and it
is the best judgment of the experts in my Administration
that decontrol at this point of old oil will not have the
adverse impact that some industrialists are predicting.
As a matter of fact, I have been impressed with
the statements which several major oil companies who say that
they will maximize their effort to minimize the increase in
gasoline prices and other fuel prices.
If the oil industry shows the kind of statesmanship
that I think most executives in that industry have indicated
and, if we do conserve, as I think the American people
recognize they must, I don't believe the impact of decontrol
will be nearly as serious as some people are alleging.
Page 10
MR. KUPCINET: Arthur Burns, who serves as the
Chairman of the Federal Reserve, made a couple of comments
of interest the other day. He indicated to Congress that
we may need some controls on wages and prices, which is far
removed, I am sure, from the thinking of the White House.
THE PRESIDENT: Irv, I have said from the
beginning we are not going to solve our economic problems
in this country by a reimposition of wage and price
controls. Maybe in World War II they worked, but the
circumstances today are quite different, and I think the
imposition of wage and price controls today would set back
the recovery, not improve it.
So, I have no intention whatsoever -- and I must
say I see no movement in the Congress -- for the reimpo-
sition of wage and price controls. I think they would be
disastrous at this point.
MR. KUPCINET: Mr. President, one of your pet
problems, of course, is to sell detente, I think, to the
American public and make it clear to the American public.
Many feel that the Russians operate on this philosophy,
that what is ours is ours and what is your is negotiable.
You said after Helsinki that you are going to be
watching for any signs of their cooperation, either in
the reduction of military forces in Europe, Portugal,
all the other problems that would be indicative of their
intentions.
Have you seen any signs that the Russians are
following the spirit of Helsinki and detente?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I think there is some evidence,
Irv, and you, of course, may have read about the speech I
made at the American Legion Convention in Minneapolis where
I laid out the things that are guidelines for detente.
In the first place, detente is a plan or a program
to ease tensions between the two superpowers, so that we
can work together in easing or relaxing tensions around the
world. It is my opinion that in the Middle East -- a very
volatile situation -- the Soviet Union has been relatively
quiet and has, I think, been statesmanlike in recognizing
that momentum to the solution of the overall problems there
are in the world's best interests.
Page 11
In the area of strategic arms limitations, the
agreement signed in 1972 was a first step in progress in
holding down the arms race. There has been some criticism
but, as we have analyzed it technically and with all of
the information available, there have been no serious vio-
lations and where violations were alleged, we have investi-
gated them and, where there has been ambiguity, the Soviet
Union has corrected the situation.
So, detente is a two-way street. They have to
give up something in return for our giving up something.
The overall approach is to achieve success in moderating
the arms race, in reducing arms competition in Western
Europe through the mutual balanced force reduction program,
in helping to alleviate the volatile emotions that exist
in the Middle East.
I believe that if we are firm, fair, we can
achieve through detente much more progress than a resumption
of the cold war.
When we had the cold war in the 1940s and 1950s,
we were really engaged in an arms race -- expensive, an
arms race that could lead to an all-out world war, a
destructive war that would have a terrible impact on
mankind.
If we can limit strategic arms, if we can reduce
the conventional arms race in Western Europe, if we can
make progress in other areas through the vehicle of detente,
I think it is the proper approach.
MR. KUPCINET: Have you seen any indication that
the Russians are going along with the things you have
recommended?
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, yes, I found in my negotiations
with Mr. Brezhnev, yes, he defends their position, but I
defend as firmly and as strongly our position. But there
are areas where we can negotiate a limitation. At
Vladivostok, we agreed to limit it at the figure of 2,400
the ballistic missiles, which means that their program will
have to be modified. They will have to substantially reduce
their planned development of ballistic missiles, and it
permits us to have our program as we would agree under the
Vladivostok general agreement.
Page 12
I found at Helsinki, in talking to Mr. Brezhnev,
there were some technical problems that must be resolved.
There was no table pounding. It was a serious, constructive
effort to see to it that their program for ballistic
missiles, strategic arms, would be modified, and we, in
turn, would bring ours into the overall agreement.
There is a constructive attitude, but it is not
going to be a one-way street, don't get me wrong. I think
it is fair to point out, Kup, that if we don't get a SALT
II agreement with the Soviet Union, I will be compelled to
ask the Congress and the American people to support at
least a $2 billion more per year military program to build
up our missile capability, our cruise missile capability,
our total strategic military program.
So, the alternative either is, one, to get a SALT
II agreement, but if we don't, the military programs for
strategic arms will have to be increased by at least $2
billion a year and the Congress has to recognize that
and the American people have to recognize that in order
for us to maintain our national security.
Page 13
MR. KUPCINET: Mr. President, the American people
and the Congress you talked about, do you feel there will be
any flak over the use of American civilians in the Middle
East? The introduction of the civilians there is being
likened by some people to the introduction of advisors in
Vietnam and you know how that expanded and exploded.
THE PRESIDENT: Irv, I don't want to get into
what might be or might not be part of the agreement or settle-
ment in the Middle East. I can only say that if that is a
part of any agreement, a very limited number of American
civilian technical employees in the UN non-combat zone, I
would ask the Congress for its approval so there is no
misunderstanding, that the Congress understands what the
agreement is and they would have to vote yes or no on it.
Now if this does take place, it would be a limited
number of American technical civilians who were there for a
civilian intelligence responsibility. But I am not saying that
is going to be the case. I am simply saying, if it does take
place, the Congress would have an opportunity and a responsibility
to either approve or disapprove this as a part of an overall
settlement.
MR. KUPCINET: Mr. President, as you go into your
second year, your second year will probably be much more
important than your first year because it will be right on the
eve of the Republican National Convention in which you have
a vested interest.
The prices, inflation, the economy, these are the
things that keep a man in office or drive him out of office.
How do you see the economy during '76, we will say the
next year?
THE PRESIDENT: Again, Kup, I think you have to put
it in perspective. When I took office, inflation was 14 percent
per annum. It is down to a rate between 6 and 7 percent.
We have made a lot of headway this last five months. We had
a one month report that wasn't too encouraging but I happen
to believe that it is an exception rather than the rule and
Page 14
and that we will continue to make headway and progress against
the inflation that we inherited back in September of 1974.
The unemployment figures are disturbing, deeply
disturbinb to me. Eight and a half to nine percent unemployment
is too high. But, again, we are making progress.
We had a good report last month. If you look
at the employment figure since March of 1975, you find that
our employment has increased 1,200,000 in rough figures,
which means that, although unemployment is too high, we are
getting more people on civilian payrolls now than we had
four or five months ago. And I believe you are going to see
that employment figure continue to go up.
The statistics show that our GNP has gone up slightly
and the trend is in the right direction.
If you look at all of the economic indicators, we
are beginning to come out of a serious recession and, if we
have good policies and we act intelligently, I am convinced the
economy in the months ahead will be encouraging.
And the best part of it is that all of the reports
from the various pollsters indicate that the American people
are getting confidence again in the strength of the American
economy and that is an important factor.
MR. KUPCINET: Mr. President, the GNP certainly
shows signs of ending the recession but the public down in the
street doesn't feel the GNP, they feel the rise of the cost of
bread, the rise of the cost of oil. How do you expect those
things to be handled so that they will be reduced to a more
"handleable" or more reasonable figure?
THE PRESIDENT: If we get the Congress to give us an
energy program -- which they have not done in the first
eight months of this session of the Congress -- the American
people will get a feeling of confidence that what has been done
is in the national interest. If we don't get an energy program,
Page 15
Irv, we become daily more vulnerable to foreign oil imports
and every day that passes without us having an energy program,
it makes us increasingly vulnerable to the capability of the
OPEC nations to give us an oil embargo, turn off the spigot
and our economy then would be in a disastrous situation. So
Congress has to do something in this area. They can't dilly
dally. They have to move affirmatively. And I think
eventually they will come to that recognition. Then the
public will support those that support progress.
In the case of the economy, you can't be quite as
dramatic. I honestly don't think there is any gimmick that
you can throw out on the table or recommend to the Congress
that is going to solve it overnight.
Too long, Irv, we have been in this country looking
for pat answers or gimmicks, short term benefits and long term
disaster. I think it is far better in this country -- and the
American people seem to understand it -- at the present time,
that it is better to have long term results rather than short
term superficial benefits.
I can't go before the American people and try to
sell them some patent medicine. I have got to tell them the
facts as they are and urge them to cooperate and, if they do --
and I think they have -- then this country is on the right
track for a long, long time.
MR. KUPCINET: Would you repeat that last answer,
Mr. President?
THE PRESIDENT: Kup, as we look ahead, I have to be
frank and honest and very candid with the American people,
whether it is in energy, or the economy or foreign policy.
I can't offer them any patent medicine that will give a
superficial quick answer. I have to look down the road to
what is in the best interest of the American people for the
long haul. That is what is good for our country, good for
all our people, and I am going to be as straightforward and
honest in presenting the alternatives and I think the American
people will support it.
Page ]
MR. KUPCINET: Mr. President, your reputation for
honesty and openness has certainly swept the nation, but a
lot of people in the press like to paint you as, well, good
buy Jerry Ford and leave it go as if there is nothing more.
Does that disturb you because your answers today have been
right on the head and fluent and made a lot of sense?
THE PRESIDENT: I like to be a good person, a nice
guy, but I know inside, I know from the programs that we have
proposed, that there is substance, and the substance is
really going to determine what is good for the country. Our
programs are in the best interest of the country. That is the
way we are going to work in the months ahead.
MR. KUPCINET: Thank you, Mr. President, and once
again, my thanks for being present here today and giving
us the benefit of your views.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, Kup. It is
good to see you again.
MR. KUPCINET: And now we go back to the studio
for the regularly scheduled Kup Show.
END
(AT 9:08 A.M. CDT)