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June 15, 1974 - Kissinger, Crown Prince Khalid and Other Saudi Officials
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June 15, 1974 - Kissinger, Crown Prince Khalid and Other Saudi Officials
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Memoranda of Conversations (Nixon and Ford Administrations)
Nixon Administration Memoranda of Conversations
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MEMORANDUM
Senscritt file
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
SECRET/NODIS
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS:
Crown Prince Khalid, Deputy Prime Minister
of Saudi Arabia
Prince Fahd, Second Deputy Prime Minister and
Minister of the Interior
Umar al-Saqqaf, Minister of State for Foreign Affairs
Prince Sultan, Minister of Defense & Aviation
Prince Musaid, Minister of Finance
Dr. Rashed Pharaon, Royal Adviser
Amb. Ibrahim Sowayel, Saudi Ambassador to U.S.
Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State and
Assistant to the President for National Security
Affairs
Lt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant to the
President for National Security Affairs
Amb. James Akins, U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia
DATE & TIME:
Saturday, June 15, 1974
PLACE:
Jidda, Saudi Arabia
Kissinger: His Royal Highness doesn't come to Washington when he visits.
Khalid: I go to Cleveland for medicine.
[There was further lengthy discussion about Khalid's trips to the United
States, including the fact that there is snow in Cleveland while it rarely
snows in Washington. Prince Fahd and Saqqaf then entered. ]
Khalid: Sowayel is very sick and he doesn't think he has anything wrong
with him. When my Cleveland doctor looked at him, he said if he didn't
follow a special diet he would have to operate and cut him into little pieces.
SECRET/NODIS
DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, SEC. 3.5
GERALD
BY
NSC MEMO, laby 11/24/96, STATE DEPT. GUIDELINES state Review 3/9/04
NARA DATE 8/6/04
File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
SECRET/NODIS
2
Kissinger: He is not following his diet.
I am afraid of Dr. Rashad [Pharaon]. After negotiating with Asad for
30 days. I will never negotiate again with Asad.
Khalid: But Rashad is a Saudi trained by Americans.
But your talks with Asad had good results.
Kissinger: He had a difficult problem which he handled with great skill.
Khalid: He is good, but some of his associates have negative instincts.
Kissinger: Saqqaf was the first Foreign Minister to urge me to get
into the negotiations.
Khalid: Thank God you took part in them.
Kissinger: What makes these negotiations tolerable for me is the chance
to deal with the Arab leaders.
Khalid: I hope they will be fruitful.
Kissinger: We will persist to the end. Step-by-step.
Khalid: We are very pleased.
We know you are tired of traveling back and forth.
Kissinger: I set a record -- the most trips between Israel and Syria in
one month of anyone in history.
Khalid: Even the doctors were surprised that any human being could
sustain such work and pressure, especially when constantly flying.
But we hear you are always alert no matter how tired you are.
Kissinger: I felt this negotiation was very important. If it failed, the
area would move toward war again, I felt.
Khalid: If the distances were greater, you would have had more rest.
Kissinger: That is a good point. I would spend the day normally with
the Syrians and half the night with the Israelis. Arab hospitality being
SECRET/NODIS
SECRET/NODIS
3
what it is, Asad always served us dinner, so I never got away until
about 11:00 o'clock at night, and then had to have my meetings in
Israel when I arrived back.
Khalid: Syrian food is a little fattening.
Kissinger: Yes, and spicy.
Khalid: Syrians are famous for using spice.
Kissinger: One night Gromyko came to Damascus when I was there.
Asad cancelled the dinner he had scheduled with Gromyko so he could
see me, then after we finished the meeting I was going to leave and he
said, no, let's eat Gromyko's food. Then he spent 2-1/2 hours reciting
Arab poetry to me which I didn't understand. Tlas, the Defense Minister,
do you know him?
Saqqaf: Not I, but Prince Sultan does. They have the same character.
Kissinger: Like you and Khaddam.
Sultan: Tlas has a leathery face.
Kissinger: I like Tlas, but he apparently writes poetry.
Sultan: He has written a book about Mohammed and his war tactics.
Kissinger: In the negotiations I thought Tlas was a constructive influence.
Khalid: Are you happy with your counterpart?
Kissinger: He is a great personal friend.
Khalid: Khaddam? I meant Sowayel.
Kissinger: No, Saqqaf. I consider him a personal friend.
Khalid: Akins is a friend of ours like Sowayel is of yours.
Kissinger: He is devoted to your country.
Khalid: You should assign the Secret Service to Sowayel to force
him to diet.
SECRET/NODIS
SECRET/NODIS
4
Kissinger: We will force him to cut from 15 courses to 12.
Khalid: He even asks his host to send food he can't eat to his hotel.
Kissinger: I am learning new things. It doesn't seem to have shamed
him.
Sowayel: His Highness' information is outdated. That was only when he
was young.
Kissinger: During the embargo the Ambassador spoke in masterful
ambiguity. No one knew what he was saying.
Sowayel: It was embarrassing for us.
Kissinger: It was difficult for both of us. When traditional friends get
into tension it hurts both.
[Musaid leaves.]
Is another meeting going on?
Khalid: Possibly. Saqqaf, Rashad and the Finance Minister have left.
Kissinger: Probably decisions being taken elsewhere.
Khalid: We noticed that too.
Kissinger: Where does His Royal Highness spend most of his time?
Khalid: In Riyadh. And Taif in the summer.
Kissinger: What is the advantage of Riyadh over Jidda? Why was the
capital moved?
Khalid: Riyadh has several distinctions. It has always been the capital.
But there are two capitals -- Riyadh is the political capital and Mecca
is the religious capital. Riyadh is centrally located, and it is also the
largest city. In the past Riyadh was small and Jidda was smaller
because of a water shortage. Now car traffic in Riyadh is so bad that
taxis are banned on Friday, the holy day. Friday afternoon people
usually take drives out to the desert. There are four roads
The
SECRET/NODIS
FORD
SECRET/NODIS
5
most heavy traffic is to Hejaz, to the east. One Friday there were
70, 000 cars using that road.
Kissinger: I notice the Ambassador has now left.
Khalid: Maybe for a phone call.
We hope the President and you can visit again. We want you to visit
the south where the land is fertile and water is abundant. As a matter
of fact, we are building a road to the south. It will be finished within
two years. It is difficult terrain, and the bridges some places are 20
meters high.
Musaid: Construction of one kilometer costs almost 1-1/2 million
rials.
Khalid: We also hope you can visit us in Riyadh in the spring. When
it rains in Riyadh, wild flowers grow quickly. It is a beautiful sight --
it looks like a carpet.
Kissinger: Prince Fahd was kind enough to invite me to visit in the
spring and perhaps go into the desert.
Khalid: I'll take you even further than Fahd. We go hunting with hawks
and I'll show you how to do it. You see, I am still down to earth. I
like the desert. I breed livestock. Sultan is also interested in this.
This also encourages the Bedouins to breed the animals we need.
Kissinger: I love the desert, too, but I have never hunted with hawks.
Do you train them?
Khalid: Yes, I've been doing it for forty years. Also the King used to.
Kissinger: That must be difficult.
Khalid: I also have an excellent stable of horses.
Kissinger: In Jidda or Riyadh?
Khalid: We have a horse club, races.
[The group comes back in. ]
SEGRET/NODIS
SECRET/NODIS
6
Kissinger: I guess Saqqaf's meeting ended.
Saqqaf: With whom?
Kissinger: We figured you called a meeting. When I saw Dr. Rashad
leaving I knew it would be very complicated.
Just so we in this room know what is being plotted. So long as the
Interior Minister is with us, I felt secure.
Khalid: There are two Royal Highnesses to fear: His Royal Highness
the Defense Minister and His Royal Highness the Commander of the
National Guard. But so long as we have the Minister of Finance we
needn't worry.
Kissinger: I told him he would be the first Minister of Finance who
didn't know how to spend his money. Others have trouble finding it.
Khalid: He knows how to spend but knows how to increase revenues.
When we cut production we had more than ever before. We noticed
yesterday the President asked for fuel for his aircraft, but at the
world price.
Sultan: Talking of economics, there were differences between the U.S.
and France under Pompidou. Now from Giscard's remarks we think
the United States and France are closer in economics.
Kissinger: We think that in the last year, Pompidou had such pain
and medicines that it affected his attitude. France cannot be an
economic competitor of the United States.
Khalid: France taught the Syrians to be stubborn. And the British
instilled the idea for the Arabs to differ with each other. It is the
case wherever the British colonize.
Kissinger: We don't consider France an economic competitor. What
can it offer? We can produce more and offer military, political and
economic cooperation which France can't do.
Sultan: I didn't mean to compare the two. I meant to say the new
President is moving closer.
SECRET/NODIS
SEGRET/NODIS
7
Kissinger: No, I agree with the Defense Minister. I only was saying
what had happened. I agree completely with His Royal Highness. The
new President is moving much more positively toward the United States.
Sultan: I hope Giscard's policy will be more harmonious with American
policy, because difficulty between the United States and France will
affect European defense.
Kissinger: I agree. Actually, France makes more of a defense effort
than any other European country.
Sultan: I heard the United States will participate in building the Concorde.
Kissinger: That's not SO.
Sultan: Some French papers mentioned it.
Kissinger: We may build our own.
Sultan: You were, but you stopped.
Kissinger: It was halted by the Congress.
Akins: Each Concorde will have a deficit of $5 million a year, and we
prefer to leave that to France.
Sultan: We heard the firms were demanding compensation for these losses.
Khalid: I think the jumbo jet is better.
Kissinger: It's more economical.
Khalid: And makes less noise. Boeing is the best aircraft.
Kissinger: It is very good.
Will you come to the UN, Omar?
Saqqaf: I hope SO.
Kissinger: You visit me before, too.
Saqqaf: I hope SO.
SECRET/NODIS
SECRET/NODIS
8
Yesterday we heard a Senator is carrying out a campaign against
the new agreement with Egypt.
Kissinger: Several. Jackson,
Saqqaf: Jackson is always in the forefront.
Kissinger: And Percy and Church. I am not nervous about that. Much
of the opposition came from the Israeli Embassy. They will behave
after we have been there.
Sowayel: It is strange that Percy is opposing it. He usually supports
us.
Kissinger: He thinks he will be a Presidential candidate for '76.
Khalid: When are the U.S. elections for President?
Kissinger: In 1976. But after the November elections, they will start
preparing.
SECRET/NODIS
N/Khulid to Frinces
2
15(?) June 1974
Jidda
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DECLASCIFIED
FORD
E.O. 12958, SEC. 3.5
NSC MEMO, 11/24/98, STATE DEPT. GUIDELINES State Dev: ew 3/9/04
<
NARA DATE 8/6/04
QENNTO
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