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September 29, 1974 - Ford, Kissinger, Brazilian Foreign Minister Silveira
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September 29, 1974 - Ford, Kissinger, Brazilian Foreign Minister Silveira
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Memoranda of Conversations (Nixon and Ford Administrations)
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File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
4555
19
MEMORANDUM
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
SECRET / NODIS
September 29, 1974
MEMORANDUM FOR THE PRESIDENT'S FILE
FROM:
Brent Scowcroft
SUBJECT:
Meeting with Minister of Foreign Affairs
of Brazil, Antonio Francisco Azeredo da
Silveira, on Sunday, September 29, 1974,
9:45 a.m. in the Oval Office.
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Minister of Foreign Affairs Antonio
Francisco Azeredo da Silveira,
DECLASSIFIED
Brazil
E.O. 12958 SEC. 3.6
Secretary Kissinger
MR08-117,#2; #2; state Ltr 9/26/08
Brazilian Ambassador Joao Augusto de
Araujo Castro
dol NARA DATE 3/5/aq
Lt. Gen. Brent Scowcroft
President:
Welcome.
Silveira:
I brought you a message from President Geisel. He
called about Mrs. Ford.
[The press was admitted for a brief photograph session. The President
and the Minister spoke informally about Mrs. Ford's operation. The
press then departed. ]
President:
It was nice of you to stay over to see me.
Silveira:
I am honored to see you. I had a good meeting with the
Secretary. We have very good relations since we came to office. I
told the Secretary that our policies should eventually converge. We are
trying to be ever more democratic. Of course we had our revolution.
In Brazil, the military never directly took over the government as they
did in Argentina.
R.FURD
Kissinger:
I told the President that Brazil had a good military
service and an outstanding Foreign Service.
SECRET / NODIS
TOP SECRET- - XGDS (3)
CLASSIFIED BY: HENRY A. KISSINGER
Downgraphed 5/11/04/4
-2-
President:
It is great credit to your talent and the skill of the
government.
Silveira:
We hope some day you will come to Brazil.
President:
I would like to. I haven't seen as much of Latin America
as I would like.
Silveira:
You are the typical person who would be liked in Brazil.
Our peoples are closer than we would admit.
Kissinger:
They are a bit nationalistic too. They think God is a
Brazilian.
Silveira:
And you say, "In God we trust. " We are patriotic. We
like the flag; we like military music. We have less terrorism than
elsewhere.
Kissinger:
You haven't had a tradition of civil disruption.
President:
Are your students quieter?
Silveira:
Students are the same everywhere. But our students
are ambitious.
Other Latin Americans want to be heroes; ours want to
work.
Kissinger:
It is a stupendous country. I was there once and am
seduced forever.
Silveira:
We believe in social benefits, but in a measured fashion.
Kissinger:
They licked a terrible inflation.
President:
In the sixties, didn't you have over 100 percent?
Silveira:
Yes. We have a good pension system.
President:
We admire your development program and your control
of inflation.
Silveira:
We have a new Ministry of Social Security. We have oil
problems. We have doubled our imports aside from oil.
SECRET / NODIS
LBRART
-3-
Kissinger:
Silveira will separate the Arabs from us.
Silveira:
We should separate the Arab-Israeli dispute from oil.
The October war had a good influence on inducing Israel to negotiate.
Kissinger:
Brazil has a good, mature relationship with the Arabs.
Silveira:
That is true. I talked with [Saudi Minister of State
for Foreign Affairs] Saqqaf and asked him if he wanted to disrupt the
world economy. It is necessary to arrive at a solution to the problem.
President:
Dr. Kissinger and I have been meeting with the parties
and we are insisting on movement.
Silveira:
Saqqaf told me he was pleased with you. They are more
responsible now and have something to lose. I told Saqqaf that if we
don't solve this, they will hold only paper for their oil. I saw all the
Arabs and I told them it is in their interest to solve the problem.
President:
The speeches I made were on that point.
Kissinger:
We were talking about Cuba before you arrived. Castro
made a strong anti-U.S. speech. He attacked the President; he said,
"Throw the U.S. out of the OAS, keep oil prices up. " The same old
thing.
Silveira:
We have parallel positions. We consult closely.
President:
Secretary Kissinger assures me that the relationship in
this respect is perfect. We will continue to do SO.
Silveira:
And we will. We are not inclined to vote in favor. At
best we will abstain.
Kissinger:
If they keep this up, we will vote against it.
Silveira:
Castro is being stupid. Many Latin American ministers
sent him a cable saying it wa S essential that he behave. The best hope
is the Soviet Union will no longer be interested in confrontation and the
radicalism he represents. It is expensive for them.
We must play down Castro, but the Cuban issue itself
is important.
SECRET / NODIS
USARAT
-4-
President:
But in the United States Castro is a symbol. There is an
affinity between the American and Cuban people. But Castro makes it
very hard for us to do anything.
Silveira:
It is the same with us. Our Congress will not let us be
too forgiving to Castro.
Kissinger:
We had worked out our strategy for Quito, and Brazil
worked out a good resolution, and we were ensuring all along that we
could both abstain. Now we have a new problem. We can't seem to
yield to Cuba.
Silveira:
We feel the same. You described our position exactly.
We are not interested in relations with Castro.
President:
Even an OAS suspension wouldn't mean that we would
suspend our bilateral embargo.
Silveira:
We feel the same.
President:
They have more to gain than we.
Kissinger:
We have nothing to gain from Cuba, except a bit with the
other Latin Americans. Castro shouldn't get the illusion we are on the
run.
Silveira:
Anytime you can come to Brazil we would be happy to
have you. We very much like Americans and you are the type of person
we like.
President:
Secretary Kissinger is going to visit in January. I want
to get him out of the United States; he is the most popular man in the
United States. Seriously, he is the best Secretary of State in my
lifetime. We are very fortunate to have him.
Silveira:
We are an enthusiastic, hopeful people. We live in a
country where we can dream. It is not like Honduras.
Kissinger:
I don't like Brasilia, because the talent of the Brazilians
is spontaneity. But the concept of Brasilia is stupendous.
Silveira:
I told Dr. Kissinger that we might get oil prices down if
we would try to get industrial prices down and compensate them for
inflation.
SECRET / NODIS
LERRAT GERALD
-5-
Kissinger:
[Assistant Secretary-designate William D.] Rogers in
his confirmation hearings said Brazil would be having terrible economic
problems.
President:
Would it help if I would say that I am very impressed
with your economic progress?
[The Minister indicated yes, and words to that effect were incorporated
in the statement. ]
GERALD LEBRARY R TOTO
SECRET / NODIS
113
DOC
RECD
OG NBR
INITIAL ACTION O
NSC CORRESPONDENCE PROFILE
MO
DA
MO
DA
HR
Law
10
IS
107510
4824
REFERENCE:
CIRCLE AS APPROPRIATE
TO: PRES
FROM: KISSINGER, H
S/S
UNCLAS LOG IN/OUT
SOURCE/CLASS/DESCRIPTION
KISSINGER
COLBY, W
OTHER
LOU
NO FORN
NODIS
X
SCOWCROFT
SCHLESINGER, J
C
EYES ONL EXDIS
DAVIS
ST EX SE
S
CODEWORD
SUBJECT:
FM SILVEIRA
MEMCON, Pris Fords Mtg w/ TS Prayham SENSITIVE
INTERNAL ROUTING AND DISTRIBUTION
REC
ACTION REQUIRED
ACTION
INFO
CY
ADVANCE CYS TO HAK/SCOWCROFT
FOR
MEMO FOR HAK
STAFF SECRETARY
MEMO FOR PRES
)
REPLY FOR
FAR EAST
(
)
SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA
APPROPRIATE ACTION
)
DISTRIBUTION/INITIAL ACTION ASGMT
MID EAST / NO. AFRICA / so. ASIA
MEMO
TO
)
EUROPE / CANADA
RECOMMENDAT
)
LATIN AMERICA
DINT MEMO
)
UNITED NATIONS
REFER TO
FOR
1
)
ECONOMIC
ANY ACTION NECESSARY?
-
)
SCIENTIFIC
CONCURRENCE.
(
)
PROGRAM ANALYSIS
DUE DATE:
NSC PLANNING
COMMENTS: (INCLUDING SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS)
CONGRESSIONAL
OCEANS POLICY
INTELLIGENCE
DATE
FROM
TO
S
SUBSEQUENT ACTION REQUIRED (OR TAKEN):
CY TO
10/15
haw
Swft
X
SUBSEQUENT ROUTING/ACTIONS
16/28
/s
approval cauft Jane
MEM CON
10/29
Dine
10/59
FORD
&
DISPATCH VBTm 10/29
RALD
MIBRARY
CY
RQMTS:
SEE
ABOVE
PLUS:
MICROFILM & FILE RQMTS:
NSC/S DISP INSTR
NOTIFY
& DATE
BY
SPECIAL DISPOSITION:
04 1974 BY
CRT OPEN ID: as
SA
SF
CROSS REF W/
HP
NS
SUSPENSE CY ATTACHED:
X
FOLDER:
CLOSE
WH
EP
PA
DY
(NBC-74-21)
MEMORANDUM
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
September 29, 1974
SECRET/NODIS
SUMMARY MEMORANDUM
SUBJECT:
Summary of Conversation Between President Ford
and Brazilian Foreign Minister Silveira on Sunday,
Septembe: r 29, 1974, at 9:45 a. m. in the Oval Office
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Minister of Brazilian Foreign Affairs Antonio
Francisco Azeredo da Silveira
Secretary Kissinger
Brazilian Ambassador Joao Augusto de Araujo Castro
Lieutenant General Brent Scowcroft
The first part of the meeting was an exchange of information about Brazil,
in which the high professional quality of Brazil's military forces and
foreign service was noted. Foreign Minister Silveira said he hoped that
President Ford would come to Brazil some day, and the President said he
would like to see more of Latin America, including Brazil. The President
spoke highly of Brazil's development program and control of inflation.
There was an exchange of comments about the situation in the Middle East,
in which both sides noted their efforts to impress upon the Arabs the im-
portance of a responsible position.
The discussion turned to Cuba. Castro's recent strongly anti-United States
speech was noted. Both sides noted that Castro's behavior could affect their
vote at the Quito Rio Pact meeting. The Foreign Minister and the President
said that a suspension of OAS sanctions would not automatically entail a lifting
of each country's own embargo on Cuban contacts. Both expressed the con-
cern about appearing to yield to Cuba.
President Ford agreed to mention in the public statement following the meeting
how impressed he was with Brazil's economic progress.
?
DECLASSIFIED
SECRET/NODIS
E.O. 12956, SEC. 3.5
NSC MEMO, 11/24/98, STATE DEPT. GUIDELINES state leview 3/9/04
GERALO
BY
I NARA, DATE 5/5/04
4824
20
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20506
SEGRET/NODIS
October 29, 1974
ATTACHMENT
MEMORANDUM FOR:
Mr. George S. Springsteen
Executive Secretary
Department of State
SUBJECT:
Summary Memcon of President's Meeting
with Brazilian Foreign Minister, September 29
Attached for your information is a summary memorandum of the President's
September 29 conversation with Foreign Minister Silveira.
Jeanne MI Davis
Staff Secretary
Attachment
GERALD
SECRET/NODIS/ATTACHMENT
DISPATCHED 10/29 w/ NSC Receipt (BTM)
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
10-15-74
FOR BUD McFARLANE
Bud:
Maybe you can sign off for Brent
on this one.
Steve Store Low
of
4824
MEMORANDUM
ad
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL
ACTION
October 15, 1974
SECRET/NODIS
MEMORANDUM FOR: GENERAL SCOWCROFT
FROM:
STEPHEN LOW Se
SUBJECT:
Memcon - -- President Ford's Meeting with
Brazilian Foreign Minister Silveira on
September 29
1. Attached at Tab A for initialing for the President's Files is a
retyped
version of the President's meeting with Foreign
Minister Silveira.
2. Attached at Tab B is a "summary" version of the meeting
which our Embassy and State have asked for. If you approve,
we will arrange to have it forwarded to them.
RECOMMENDATIONS
NSC MEMO, 11/24/98, STATE DEPT. GUIDELINES state 3/9/04
Deview
1. That you initial the Memorandum for the President's Files at
Tab A.
NARA, DATE 5/5/04
2. That you approve our forwarding the Summary Memorandum at
Tab B to State and our Embassy.
Approve BD
Disapprove
DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, SEC. 3.5
GERALD
Attachments:
Tab A - - Memcon for President's Files
Tab B - - Summary memo (for State & assy)
BY
TOP SECRET - XGDS (3)
SECRET/NODIS
CLASSIFIED BY: HENRY A. KISSINGER
MEMORANDUM
THE WHITE HOUSE
DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958 SEC. 3.6
WASHINGTON
MR08-117 # 2; state ltr 9/26/08
SECRET/NODIS
dal
3/5/09
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS:
President Gerald R. Ford
Antonio Francisco Azeredo da Silveira, Minister
of Foreign Affairs of Brazil
Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State and
Assistant to the President
Ambassador JoaoAugusto de Araujo Castro,
Ambassador of Brazil
Lt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant
to the President for National Security Affairs
DATE AND TIME:
Sunday, September 29, 1974
9:45 a. m.
PLACE:
The Oval Office
The White House
President: Welcome.
Silveira: I brought you a message from President Geisel. He called about
Mrs. Ford.
[The press was admitted for a brief photograph session. The President
and the Minister spoke informally about Mrs. Ford's operation. The press
then departed.]
President: It was nice of you to stay over to see me.
Silveria: I am honored to see you. I had a good meeting with the Secretary.
We have very good relations since we came to office. I told the Secretary
that our policies should eventually converge. We are trying to be even
more democratic. Of course we had our revolution. In Brazil, the military
never directly took over the government as they did in Argentina.
Kissinger: I told the President that Brazil had a good military service and
an outstanding Foreign Service.
President: It is great credit to your talent and the skill of the government.
SECRET/NODIS
GREATOR FORD LIBRARY
TOP SECRET - XGDS (3)
CLASSIFIED BY: HENRY A. KISSINGER
Downgraded 5/11/04 Wh
SECRET/NODIS
- 2 -
Silveira: We hope some day you will come to Brazil.
President: I would like to. I haven't seen as much of Latin America as I
would like.
Silveira: You are the typical person who would be liked in Brazil. Our
peoples are closer than we would admit.
Kissinger: They are a bit nationalistic too. They think God is a Brazilian.
Silveira: And you say, "In God we trust. We are patriotic. We like the
flag; we like military music. We have less terrorism than elsewhere.
Kissinger: You haven't had a tradition of civil disruption.
President: Are your students quieter?
Silveira: Students are the same everywhere. But our students are ambitious.
Other Latin Americans want to be heros; ours want to work.
Kissinger: It is a stupendous country. I was there once and am seduced
forever.
Silveira: We believe in social benefits, but in a measured fashion.
Kissinger: They kicked a terrible inflation.
President: In the '60s, didn't you have over 100%?
Silveira: Yes. We have a good pension system.
President: We admire your development program and your control of inflation.
Silveira: We have a new Ministry of Social Security. We have oil problems.
We have doubled our imports aside from oil.
Kissinger: Silveira will separate the Arabs from us.
Silveira: We should separate the Arab-Israeli dispute from oil. The October
war had a good influence on inducing Israel to negotiate.
Kissinger: Brazil has a good, mature relationship with the Arabs.
SECRET/NODIS
LISRARY GERALD R. 2016
SECRET/NODIS
- 3 -
Silveira: That is true. I talked with [Saudi Minister of State for Foreign
Affairs Saqqaf and asked him if he wanted to disrupt the world economy.
It is necessary to arrive at a solution to the problem.
President: Dr. Kissinger and I have been meeting with the parties and we
are insisting on movement.
Silveira: Saqqaf told me he was pleased with you. They are more responsible
now and have something to lose. I told Saqqaf that if we don't solve this,
they will hold only paper for their oil. I saw all the Arabs and I tell them
it is in their interest to solve the problem.
President: The speeches I made were on that point.
Kissinger: We were talking about Cuba before you arrived. Castro made
a strong anti-US speech. He attacked the President; he said, "Throw the US out
of the OAS, keep oil prices up." The same old thing.
Silveira: We have parallel positions. We consult closely.
President: Secretary Kissinger assures me that the relationship in this respect
is perfect. We will continue to do so.
Silveira: And we will. We are not inclined to vote in favor. At best we will
abstain.
Kissinger: If they keep this up, we will vote against it.
Silveira: Castro is being stupid. Many Latin American ministers sent him
a cable saying it was essential that he behave. The best hope is the Soviet
Union will no longer be interested in confrontation and the radicalism he
represents. It is expensive for them.
We must play down Castro, but the Cuban issue itself is important.
President: But in the United States Castro is a symbol. There is an affinity
between the American and Cuban people. But Castro makes it very hard
for us to do anything.
Silveira: It is the same with us. Our Congress will not let us be too forgiving
to Castro.
SECRET/NODIS
GERALD FORD
SECRET/NODIS
- 4 -
Kissinger: We had worked out our strategy for Quito, and Brazil worked
out a good resolution, and we were ensuring all along that we could both
abstain. Now we have a new problem. We can't seem to yield to Cuba.
Silveira: We feel the same. You described our position exactly. We are
not interested in relations with Castro.
President; Even an OAS suspension wouldn't mean that we would suspend our
bilateral embargo.
Silveira: We feel the same.
President: They have more to gain than we.
Kissinger: We have nothing to gain from Cuba, except a bit with the other
Latin Americans. Castro shouldn't get the illusion we are on the run.
Silveira: Any time you can come to Brazil we would be happy to have you.
We very much like Americans and you are the type of person we like.
President: Secretary Kissinger is going to visit in January. I want to get
him out of the United States; he is the most popular man in the United States.
Seriously, he is the best Secretary of State in my lifetime. We are very
fortunate to have him.
Silveira: We are an enthusiastic, hopeful people. We live in a country
where we can dream. It is not like Honduras.
Kissinger: I don't like Brasilia, because the talent of the Brazilians is
spontaneity. But the concept of Brasilia is stupendous.
Silveria: I told Dr. Kissinger that we might get oil prices down if we would
try to get industrial prices down and compensate them for inflation.
Kissinger: [Assistant Secretary-designate William D.] Rogers in his
confirmation hearings said Brazil would be having terrible economic problems.
President: Would it help if I would say that I am very impressed with your
economic progress?
[The Minister indicated yes, and words to that effect were incorporated in
the statement. ]
SECRET/NODIS
GERALD, FORD
4
NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION
Presidential Libraries Withdrawal Sheet
WITHDRAWAL ID 017726
REASON FOR WITHDRAWAL
National security restriction
TYPE OF MATERIAL
Memorandum of Conversation
DESCRIPTION
Brent Scowcroft's handwritten version
of memcon
CREATION DATE
09/29/1974
VOLUME
3 pages
COLLECTION/SERIES/FOLDER ID
031400249
COLLECTION TITLE
National Security Adviser. Memoranda of
Conversations
BOX NUMBER
6
FOLDER TITLE
September 29, 1974 - Ford, Kissinger,
Brazilian Foreign Minister Silveira
DATE WITHDRAWN
05/11/2004
WITHDRAWING ARCHIVIST
GG