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    "localId": "1552845",
    "label": "November 11, 1974 - Ford, John McCone (Former DCI)",
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    "title": "November 11, 1974 - Ford, John McCone (Former DCI)",
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        "President (1974-1977 : Ford). Commission on Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Activities within the United States. 1/4/1975-6/6/1975",
        "United States. Presidents Foreign Intelligence Advisory"
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    "ocrText": "File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nPresidential Libraries Withdrawal Sheet\nWITHDRAWAL ID 017752\nREASON FOR WITHDRAWAL\nNational security restriction\nTYPE OF MATERIAL\nMemorandum of Conversation\nTITLE\nFord; John McCone, Former DCI\nCREATION DATE\n11/11/1974\nVOLUME\n3 pages\nCOLLECTION/SERIES/FOLDER ID\n031400282\nCOLLECTION TITLE\nNational Security Adviser. Memoranda of\nConversations\nBOX NUMBER\n7\nFOLDER TITLE\nNovember 11, 1974 - Ford, John McCone\n(Former DCI)\nDATE WITHDRAWN\n05/11/2004\nWITHDRAWING ARCHIVIST\nGG\nSanitized 12/6/04\n9/14/10\nEd\nMEMORANDUM\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nWASHINGTON\nSEGRET/SENSITIVE\nMEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION\nPARTICIPANTS:\nThe President\nJohn McCone, former Director of\nCentral Intelligence\nLt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy\nAssistant to the President for\nNational Security Affairs\nDECLASSIFIED w/ portions exempted\nE.O. les amended) SEC 3.3\nMR) 10-112.1*5\nstate/NSC CIA 9/14/10\nBy NARA, Date 12/16/10\nDATE AND TIME:\nMonday, November 11, 1974\n1:30 p.m.\nPLACE:\nThe Oval Office\nThe White House\n[After initial pleasantries and small talk, the conversation turned to the\nproblems of the intelligence community.]\nMr. McCone: I wanted to talk about the CIA and the fact that its image is\nbeing tarnished, both here and in Europe. People talk to me in a way far\ndifferent from the way they did a few years ago. I am deeply concerned that\nit may be more than Colby. Nothing I say should be construed as criticism\nof Colby and the Agency. I had my eye on him for years and he is very able.\nBut I fear two things: The loss of image lowers morale and people leave\nthe Agency, and second, the Agency is no longer the most attractive to\ncollege graduates. There are some things which can be done. [He hands\nthe President a paper. ]\nThe role and mission of the Agency and the intelligence community must be\nredefined and reaffirmed. This means:\n-- The authority of the Director over the intelligence community must\nbe reaffirmed. President Kennedy did that for me.\n-- The question of Agency personnel abroad: There is an attitude of\nwhy should CIA have anybody abroad. They are there mostly to\nhelp the host country.\na FORD LIDRARY\nSECRET/SENSITIVE\nTOP SECRET - XGDS (3)\nCLASSIFIED BY\nSECRET/SENSITIVE\n2\nThe use of covert political activity: It is much less now than it\nused to be, as you know. There must be an understanding on the\nHill that we must keep this in reserve as long as the KGB does it.\nThe President: Most of them on the Hill do, but you get these zealots,\ntogether with some of the press, who just don't give a damn.\nMr. McCone: I met with Senator Church before the hearings and he under-\nstands, but then he shot barbed questions at me. I would hope you would\nmeet with the Senate leaderhip and resolve the dispute between the Senate\nForeign Relations Committee and Armed Services. The House is much\nbetter organized. When Dick Russell was there I got him to invite Fulbright.\nHe didn't want to.\nThe Harrington matter arose because of the House rule. If you could bring\nabout a situation where surveillance by these committees would constitute\nsurveillance by the House\nThe President: We had a leadership meeting recently where we went into\nthis, and I think we have it pretty well taken care of.\nMr. McCone: I think at a breakfast you could also reaffirm the roles and\nmissions. He [Colby] should also have access to you. I had access to\nPresident Kennedy. President Johnson was different. Allen Dulles had\nconstant contact with Ike.\nThe President: I meet daily with\nI met with Colby three\ntimes before SALT, and we also had a meeting on the 40 Committee. I\nwas surprised at how little we spend on covert activities.\nMr. McCone: I suspected it myself and I reduced it from the Dulles days.\nThe President: What is your thought on whether DIA is a good organization?\nHas it been effective?\nMr. McCone: Yes. It is an instrument of the JCS, and to that extent it is\nparochial, but it does a good job. It has a lot of civilians, under Civil\nService. It is a good idea, but I insisted that the Service intelligence\nchiefs still sit on the USIB.\nSEGRET/SENSITIVE\nGERALD LIBRARY 8 FORD\nSECRET SENSITIVE\n3\nAnother subject is PFIAB. I would look at that -- it needs revitalization,\nincluding the chairman and staff. It should be revitalized and it should\nhave higher visibility. Then if it is shuffled, it could meet with the select\ncommittees.\nThe President: I met with them a couple of times when I was Vice President.\nThere are some good people on the board.\nMr. McCone: Admiral Anderson is a good friend of mine but he is not an\nintelligence officer.\nThe President: Didn't Johnson put General J. C. Meyer on it?\nMr. McCone: There used to be a man by the name of Coyne who ran the staff.\nHe knew the bureaucracy and he knew his way around. Giving this Board\nvisibility and authority would help defuse some of the criticism that CIA\nis running wild. [Looking over a list of Board membership:] Land, Cherne,\nBaker, Gray are all good. Shultz is good. Teller is a fine guy but emotional.\nThe Board needs visibility.\nThe President: Brent, I want to meet with the PFIAB next time. Also I will\nmeet with the leadership after the first of the year to discuss the handling\nof briefings and CIA oversight.\nMr. McCone: There is legislation on the Hill for criminal penalties for\npeople like Agee.\nThe President: Make a note of that, Brent.\nMr. McCone: What you need to show is that the Agency is not a free-wheeling\nunsupervised agency.\nThe President: Could I change the subject for just a minute? You have wide\nacquaintance around. Would you send me any names of people you think\nwould fit in at the top or anywhere? That I would appreciate.\nMr. McCone: I will be glad to. 1 gave some to Bill Scranton. I will send\nyou a list.\nThe President: I don't anticipate any major changes. I don't want any change\non Kissinger's or for the moment Schlesinger.\n[There was a brief discussion of energy, reorganization, and the conversation\nended.\nFORD\nSECRET/SENSITIVE\nGERALD\nLIBRARY\n2\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nPresidential Libraries Withdrawal Sheet\nWITHDRAWAL ID 017753\nREASON FOR WITHDRAWAL\nNational security restriction\nTYPE OF MATERIAL\nMemorandum of Conversation\nTITLE\nFord; John McCone, Former DCI\nCREATION DATE\n11/11/1974\nVOLUME\n3 pages\nCOLLECTION/SERIES/FOLDER ID\n031400282\nCOLLECTION TITLE\nNational Security Adviser. Memoranda of\nConversations\nBOX NUMBER\n7\nFOLDER TITLE\nNovember 11, 1974 - Ford, John McCone\n(Former DCI)\nDATE WITHDRAWN\n05/11/2004\nWITHDRAWING ARCHIVIST\nGG"
}