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October 9, 1975 - Ford, Kissinger, Pakistani Foreign Minister Aziz Ahmed
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1553264
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October 9, 1975 - Ford, Kissinger, Pakistani Foreign Minister Aziz Ahmed
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Memoranda of Conversations (Nixon and Ford Administrations)
Ford Administration Memoranda of Conversations
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Bangladesh
China
Pakistan
India
Afghanistan
Soviet Union
Arms transfers
Food aid
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1975-10-09
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1975
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1975-10-09
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10
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1975
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File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
MEMORANDUM
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
SEGRET/NODIS/XGDS
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS:
President Ford
Aziz Ahmed, Minister of State for Foreign
Affairs and Defense of Pakistan
Ambassador Yaqub-Khan
Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State and
Assistant to the President for National
Security Affairs
Lt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant
to the President for National Security Affairs
DATE AND TIME:
Thursday, October 9, 1975
11:00 a.m.
PLACE:
The Oval Office
The White House
[Photographers were admitted briefly. There was small talk about the
weather and the UN session. The photographers left.]
Ahmed: This must be a very busy time for you.
President: Yes, but I think it is important to take advantage of opportunities
DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12968, SEC. 3.5
NSC MEMO, STATE GUIDELINES 3/11/04
like this.
Please give my regards to the Prime Minister. I think things have
been moving well since February. I have looked over the military
MARA, DATE 6/3/04
equipment -- the TOW, etc., -- that is being discussed, and I feel this
carries out my determination which I conveyed to the Prime Minister
in February. Your Air Force Chief of Staff is coming soon.
Kissinger: The Indians are sending a purchasing mission here to buy
radios. I didn't want you to read it in the papers.
Ahmed: That's o.k.
CLASSIFIED BY HENRY A. KISSINGER
NEMPT FROM GENERAL DECLASSIFICATION
SCHEDULE OF EXECUTIVE ORDER 11652
BY
SEGRET/NODIS/XGDS
EXEMPTION CATEGORY 5 (b) (1,3)
AUTOMATICALLY DECLASSIFIED ON Imp. to det.
SEGRET/NODIS/XGDS
2.
President: What about recent developments in Bangladesh?
Ahmed: It is a useful development. The Bengalees are very emotional
people.
President: Was there any warning?
Ahmed: None whatsoever. They have been sending messages they want
to get closer to us. We are telling them to be cautious; we don't want to
upset India or the Soviet Union. But there are no problems and things
will move forward.
With India, there was a lot of noise when your arms policy changed.
Indira is making noises about Pakistan being a threat and being surrounded
on three sides -- by us, China and Diego Garcia. Much of this is just
posturing but we couldn't ignore it. Then came the emergency. We
anticipated that would happen. But before and after we got hints from
places like Australia and Japan that India might make a move against
Kashmir this winter. Then came the emergency. But the rumors
persisted. There isn't much we can do about it. We are grateful to
Secretary Kissinger for his representation to the Soviet Union. About all
we can do is build up our military. We wouldn't mind a conflict confined
to Kashmir -- we would do o.k. But it wouldn't be restricted to Kashmir
but would spread all down the border.
There still are vitriolic radio attacks against us. Our assessment
is that if war happens -- and we think it will eventually
Kissinger: We are lucky the Indians are pacifists. [Laughter]
Ahmed: We think next time Afghanistan will join in. They kept out
before -- and they claimed credit for it -- but we won't be so lucky a third
time. Daoud is able but half-mad, cruel and ruthless. Things inside
Afghanistan don't look too good.
President: Didn't I read about some governmental change in the last
week or so?
Ahmed: I don't think so, but there is substantial opportunism. At one
time Afghanistan indicated a willingness to talk with us and said they had
no designs on our territory -- they only wanted the Pushtuns and Baluchis
protected. He had agreed to come to Pakistan, but then one of our gover-
nors was killed by someone who fled to Afghanistan. We decided to ban
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS
3.
that party. It had been bad for years and this was the last straw.
Afghanistan then refused to talk with us until the ban was lifted and the
leaders released. We couldn't do that. The case is now before our
Supreme Court. So we refused, and that is where we are now. We
can't accept such demands.
We don't consider the Afghan threat serious, but coupled with
the Indian one and supported by the Soviet Union, it is a serious problem.
We hope to get some defensive equipment from you before then.
President: What would China do?
Ahmed: We asked them and they haven't really answered. They said we
would have to talk at the appropriate time. I said that is not helpful.
Our military need to plan and must know now, not if a war starts. If
they are going to move, we have only about 30 days within which China
could help; after that the Passes are closed.
Kissinger: The Indians agreed to put back into the formal note the term
"by peaceful means" which had been dropped from the earlier version.
Ahmed: Yes. They told us the same thing.
Kissinger: I think there isn't much chance of attacking you. I was worried
about Bangladesh. What we might see is refugees from Bangladesh
stimulated by India and then the Indians use the pretext of the refugees to
intervene.
Ahmed: We told the Bengalees not to give them any pretext. To take care
of the Hindus and not antagonize Indira or the Soviet Union.
The incalcuable factor in the whole situation is the Soviet Union.
Their strategy is inscrutable but we think their objectives are clear.
President: How would you characterize them?
Ahmed: The shortest way to the Gulf is through Pakistan. One way or
another they want to get across and eventually to control the Gulf area.
Iran has agreed to help us but they can be bypassed. They had been
stalling but now are agreeing to fund some purchases. Without the Soviet
green light, the Indians won't attack. The last time the Soviets did help
India.
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS
4.
Kissinger: With reconnaissance?
Ahmed: Yes, and actual help. During the night they would fly in, fire
weapons and flee. So this is one problem. If you could help us and give
us equipment from stocks and not make us wait 2-3 years. We know it
is difficult, but we do need it right away.
President: You know, we do have a problem. Vietnam drew down our
stocks badly but we'll do what we can.
Ahmed: Thank you. People tell us you are no longer interested in us and
the region. We say that is wrong.
President: I can assure you it is.
Ahmed: On our economy, we have had bad breaks. We have had to drain
the Tarbela Dam and this has cost us 2 million tons of grain. So we have
jacked up our wheat deficit and think we'll need 1.5 million tons from
outside. You have been kind giving us 50,000 tons, but anything you can
do will be appreciated.
President: I have talked with Henry. We'll do what we can.
Ahmed: We appreciate your help and look forward to your visit at what-
ever time you come.
President: I am looking forward to it. I have a bad schedule for the fore-
seeable future, and I do have an election coming up, but I do want to visit
when I can.
Ahmed: We understand. One other small point. We have to place commercial
orders for some military things. I hope they won't be too hard on prices.
SEGRET/NODIS/XGDS
N
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90t75 11:00 a.m,
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FOND
DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958, SEC. 3.5
BY. lubs
NSC MEMO, 11/24/98, STATE DEPT. GUIDELINES state leview 3/11/04
GERALD E
NARA, DATE 6/3/'04
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