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    "label": "April 21, 1976 - Ford, Kissinger",
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    "title": "April 21, 1976 - Ford, Kissinger",
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    "subjects": [
        "South Africa",
        "Africa",
        "Cuba",
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        "Voyages and travels"
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    "ocrText": "File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library\nMEMORANDUM\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nWASHINGTON\nSEGRET/NODIS/XGDS\nMEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION\nPARTICIPANTS:\nPresident Ford\nDr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State\nBrent Scowcroft, Assistant to the President\nfor National Security Affairs\nDATE & TIME:\nWednesday, April 21, 1976\n9:20-9:55 a.m.\nPLACE:\nThe Oval Office\nKissinger: If the speech is the one you sent me, I think it is good.\nI don't think a President can say we are second best.\nPresident: I agree. We had quite a battle over it, but Brent and\nI won.\nKissinger: I am having a bureaucratic brawl with Dent. I have cut\noff his cables. I think it is an issue of principle. If we give Long\ncables, we soon will have to do it in all other areas.\nPresident: Could we separate the MTN cables from other cables?\nWhy does he need anything else?\nthis continues, Cabinet officers will soon be claiming a legislative\nE.O.\nBY NSC MEMO, GUIDELINES\nNARA, DATE 7/1/04\nKissinger: It isn't the sensitivity, it is a matter of principle. If\nmandate against the President.\nDECLASSIFIED\nScowcroft: I agree it is a basic issue of your authority.\nKissinger: I will try to work it out with Fred, but he sent me a sharp\nletter and may come to you.\nOn my Africa trip. There are signs the Communists and radicals may\ntry to turn our trip into a trip like Nixon in Latin America in '59.\nIf they give me a hard time I would plan to give a Moynihan response.\nSECRET/NODIS/XGDS\nGERAL\nSEGRET/NODIS/XGDS\n2\nPresident: Is your security adequate?\nKissinger: The usual thing. I am fatalistic about that. But if\nKaunda gives a speech in my presence like he did here, I would\nlike to talk back.\nPresident: Go ahead.\nKissinger: But you could get some flak here. Basically I am with\nthe whites in Southern Africa. I think it is no better for the majority\nto oppress the minority than vice versa. But in my comments I will\nsupport majority rule in Rhodesia. I will say the same about South\nAfrica, but softer. I will strongly support repeal of the Byrd Amend-\nment, sending an emissary to Smith, and giving economic aid to\ncountries that have joined the blockade of Rhodesia. It will be\nsomething of a sensation.\nPresident: Do we have to send an emissary?\nKissinger: That is about the only thing we can do. Well, we can do\nthose three things.\nPresident: Byrd repeal we are openly supporting. To me the\nblockade aid sounds worse.\nKissinger: We are committed to that as part of UN action.\nPresident: If you can bill it that way rather than as a bilateral move.\nKissinger: We will have a pretty good program for UNCTAD. There\nis still an issue with Teasury but we are working that out on commodity\nbuffer stocks. Simon has been very good.\nLynn will oppose me but I think we have to propose some additional\naid as a result of Zaire and Zambia. I would like to discuss it in\nprinciple.\nPresident: Okay.\nKissinger: The contingency plans aren't doing well. On Cuba,\nno one but you and I are in favor of cracking the Cubans. I would\nlike to order the interagency group to produce contingencies for you\nwhether they like it or not or agree with it or not.\nSECREF/NODIS/XGDS\nSEGRET/NODIS/XGDS\n3\nPresident: You know how I feel about that. By all means go ahead.\nKissinger: I was wondering also about my meeting with Gromyko.\nI think we should try to calm them down. If they decide a Democrat\nis better, they could make trouble for you. I could do it after NATO\nor OECD and in Helsinki or Vienna.\nScowcroft: I wouldn't do it in conjunction with NATO.\nPresident: When do we have to decide? I don't feel strongly about\nthe time, but I wouldn't do it in Helsinki.\nKissinger: We can wait until after my trip. I don't have to do it\nin Helsinki in any case. You have a good point there.\nSEGRET/NODIS/XGDS\n2\n3\nRodman\nSEGRET/NODIS/XGDS\nDr tinal\nMEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION\nPARTICIPANTS:\nPresident Ford\nDr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State\nBrent Scowcroft, Assistant to the President for\nNational Security Affairs\nDATE & TIME:\nWednesday - April 21, 1976\n9:20 - 9:55 a.m.\nPLACE:\nThe Oval Office\nKissinger: If the speech is the one you sent me, I think it is good. I\ndon't think a President can say we are second best.\nPresident: I agree. We had quite a battle over it but Brent and I won.\nKissinger: I am having a bureaucratic brawl with Dent. I have cut off\nhis cables. I think it is an issue of principle. If we give Long cables,\nwe soon will have to do it in all other areas.\nthe\nM TN cables\nPresident: Could we separate\nN\nfrom other cables? Why does he need anything else?\nKissinger: It isn't the sensitivity, it is a matter of principle. If this\na\ncontinues, Cabinet officers will soon be claiming legislative mandate\nagainst the President.\nScowcroft: I agree it is a basic issue of your authority.\nKissinger: I will try to work it out with Fred, but he sent me a sharp\nletter and may come to you.\nDECLASSIFIED\nE.O. 12958, SEC. 3.5\nN9C MEMO, 11/34/98, STATE DEPT. GUIDELINES state liview 3/12/04\nBY\n4 NARA. DATE 7/1/04\n- 2 -\nOn my Africa trip. There are signs the Communists and radicals\ntrip like\nmay try to turn our trip into a Nixon in Latin American in '59, trip. If\n1\nthey give me a hard time I would plan to give a Moynihan response.\nPresident: Is your security adequate?\nKissinger: The usual thing. I am fatalistic about that. But if Kaunda gives\na speech in my pres_ence like he did here, I would like to talk back.\nPresident: Go ahead.\nflak\nKissinger: But you could get some flack here. Basically I am with the\nwhites in Southern Africa. I think it is no better for the majority to\noppress the minority than vice versa. But in my comments I will\nsupport majority rule in Rhodesia. I will say the same about South\nthe Amendment, sending an\nAfrica, but softer. I will strongly support repeal of Byrd, h send an\nemissary to Smith, and giving give economic aid to 1 the blockade of Rhodesia.\nCantries that have joined\nIt will be something of a sensation.\nPresident: Do we have to send an emissary?\nKissinger: That is about the only thing we can do. Well, we can do those\nthree things.\nrepeal\nPresident: Byrd we are openly supporting. To me the blockade aid\n1\nsounds worse.\nKissinger: We are committed to that as part of UN action.\nPresident: If you can bill it that way rather than as a bilaterla move.\n- 3 -\nKissinger: We will have a pretty good program for UNCTAD. There\ncommodity butter\nis still an issue with Treasury but we are working that out on crediting\nstocks. Simon has been very good.\nLynn will oppose me but I think we have to propose some additional\na\nand\naid as a result of Zire / Zambia. I would like to discuss it in principle.\nPresident: Okay\nKissinger: The contingency plans aren't doing well. On Cuba, no one\nbut you and I are in favor of cracking the Cubans. I would like to order\nthe interagency group to produce contingencies for you whether they\nlike it or not or agree with it or not.\nPresident: You know how I feel about that. By all means go ahead.\nKissinger: I was wondering also about my meeting with Gromyko. I\nthink we should try to calm them down. If they decide a Democrat is\nbetter, they could make trouble for you. I could do it after NATO or\nOECD and in Helsinki or Vienna.\nScowcroft: I wouldn't do it in conjunction with NATO.\nPresident: When do we have to decide? I don't feel strongly about\nthe time, but I wouldnt do it in Helsinki.\nKissinger: We can wait until after my trip. I don t have to do it in\nHelsinki in any case. You have a good point there.\n3\nP/K\n21 an 7C\nK present speech is C one Up you sent me,\nit is you. I don't think a P can\nsoy we and 2ml hot,\nP.\nDaysee use had grint a borthe own it\nthat Burt of I were.\nK\nI having a burewmatin / Dent. I\nhave est off his coldes. I think it is on isno\nof primple. If give have cubles, are 200\nand lime to do it in are other ands.\nP\nCanld me separate MT from other eable?\nwhy dres he need my this else?\nK At sint - sensiturity, it is a matter of priming\nof This Contrinus, Cannit yours will soon be\ncliming legis. invidate against - Prio.\nS I Char aprea it is a bosic Morth of your anthority.\nK Devil try to wesh it art us/ Fred, but h sent\nthe 6 shay letter & may come to you.\nmy apica try. There are series < Curst r\nvadiats they try to am an try into a Nigher\nin LA in 59 hep. of they give esua hard\ntime I would plan to give a maprition\nresponse.\nP & you security\nK The usual thing, I patabitic about Chnt But of\nKamda gives d spread in my presence his\nhe did here, d would the & with book\nP Goahad\nK But you cmild get some flach her. Besically\nI and w/c white in Santher apria. I\nthis it no term for c mayority &\ninionity them his versa. But in my\ncomments Junil support imagently enth in\nDECLASSIFIED\na\nE.O. 12958, SEC. 3.5\nNSC MEMO, 11/24/98, STATE DEPT. GUIDELINES, state eview 3/12/04\nGERALD\nBY he\nNARA. DATE 7/1/04\nP even fr Ungline Komele - who not by just articles ansetion new trip\nevery over\ncare Thromank\nform tom\nClearer\nRhodisix. 2 smill sny found albert S A fair, but\nspan. I will through inpert respond of Beynel, and on\nbringing of Smith, & your e ns and of blochard\nof Rhrehsice It will be somethy of a whote\nP\nDo and have & zend an invison\nK\nThat about c only thing we can ds, used, and\ncan do these 3 things.\nP\nByed we one and wyperting To me c black\nand comb wrst.\nK\nwe one crated to that es prest of Urv action\nP\nGyon can birl it that way rather chan assa\nbritered more.\nK use will have a pretter good frog for UNCTAD. are\nStrl - am riser or/ Treasury ht are and\nworking that ant on emidity streks. Service has\nheren very good.\nL eyem will oppose me but I think we have\nto propose have additional and as can't are\nof Z andrea. deverald like to disings in principle\nP OK.\nK The contingery plans ann't dring well. On\nCuh, no read one but your 2 are in\nform of end his C Cubms. I smond Who G\norder C intrayery group to proince extringemes\nfor your whether they like it or unt or agreem/it\na not.\nP\nyou hum ham & feel about that By all means\ngo ahiad\nK I was avoiding also dent my muti w/\nGrangha. think um should try to cobin them\ndrm. If they decide Denr is with, they\ncould with horold hr you. If comld do at after\nGERALO\nNATO or OECD time Hubindics a Vumn\nS 2 Descript don't in management N/NATO\nP arm & me have & lamb? d about fre stryer\nabout time, but du it in\nK\nWeckn want til fther my trip. I dnit\nhome & do it in H elambi in any case,\nyou home a good parit These\nB.\nFOR\nGERALD"
}