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DOCUMENT
DOCUMENT
NUMBER
TYPE
SUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS
DATE
RESTRICTION
1
Telcon
HAK maw
- 2pp
6/27/93
D
2
Telcon
HAK/ Dr. Schlesings
- 2pys
6/27/73
B
MANDATORY REVIEW REQUEST NLN 08-47/12370
DECLASSIFIED Itr. 11- 20-2013
FILE GROUP TITLE
BOX NUMBER
HAK Telephone Convertions
20
FOLDER TITLE
1973
25-30 June 9
RESTRICTION CODES
A. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.
E. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or
B. National security classified information.
financial information.
C. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's
F. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law
rights.
enforcement purposes.
D. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy
G. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.
or a libel of a living person.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library and returned non-historical material.
DECLASSIFIED
NATIONAL pursuant No Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
NA 14021 (4-85)
DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]
DOCUMENT
DOCUMENT
NUMBER
TYPE
SUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS
DATE
RESTRICTION
I
Telcon
HAKI maw
- - 2py
6/27/93
D
2
Telcon
HAK/ Dr. Schlesings
- 2pys
6/27/73
B
FILE GROUP TITLE
BOX NUMBER
HAK Telephone Convertions
20
FOLDER TITLE
1973
25-30 June
9
RESTRICTION CODES
A. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.
E. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or
B. National security classified information.
financial information.
C. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's
F. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law
rights.
enforcement purposes.
D. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy
G. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.
or a libel of a living person.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library and returned non-historical material.
DECLASSIFIED
NATIONAL ARCHIVES Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
NA 14021 (4-85)
TELCON (San Clemente)
Cong. Patman/Kissinger
8:40 a. m. - 6/25/73
K:
Hello.
P:
This is Wright Patman, Mr. Kissinger.
K:
How are you?
P:
All right, I hope you are.
K:
Yes, I'm fine. I'm taking the liberty of calling you which - I normally
never call members of Congress on votes.
P:
Well I'm glad to talk to you.
K:
But I'm so concerned on this vote on Cambodia today that I wanted to
take this opportunity to tell you that I really believe that if we could
stay with the House version, that anyone who has voted for it will, in
a matter of weeks, see that we are working on producing a solution
there and in any event, I can tell you that personally thought, it
shouldn't be made public, that if
P:
I won't make it public. I've voted with the President on most of your
war measures.
K:
I know you have. That if what we are trying to do doesn't work by
September we'll in any event stop the bombing.
P:
I'm sympathetic, I'll do my very best to carry out your suggestion.
K:
But we're not asking for a blank check here, it's a complicated
diplomacy with Brezhnev, Chou En-lai and a few others involved.
P:
Yes, sir. Well, I have great confidence in you Mr. Kissinger.
K:
Well, you've been a great patriot and I appreciate this very much.
P:
Yes, sir. Thank you sir for calling.
K:
Nice to talk to you.
P:
Bye.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Dobrynin/Kissinger
10:30 a. m. - 6/25/73
K:
Hello.
D:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Anatol, how are you?
D:
Good morning. I just receive a telegram from Brezhnev from his
plane addressed to the President.
K:
Right.
D:
I have just within 30 minutes dictated to Colonel Kennedy so he has
a text but if you don't mind I could read it now but he put it down.
K:
Please.
D:
(Reads) "His Excellency Richard M. Nixon, President of the United
States of America.
"Leaving the territory of the United States of América, I
express to you, Mr. President, to the government and to the
people of the United States my sincere gratitude for the warm
welcome and hospitality which were accorded during our visit
and for the constructive spirit of our fruitful negotiations. I
am confident that the work we did together over the last few days
will well serve the interests of the peoples of our two countries
and become a new important contribution to the stronger universal
peace.
"My very best wishes to you, Mr. President, to the members
of your government and all the American people.
L. Brezhnev
Aboard IL-62' "
And without this text he sends his personal best wishes to you,
Mr. Kissinger or Dr. Kissinger as he put it,
K:
Thank you very much and I can tell you I have talked to the President
this morning and he feels very warmly about this week and I have just
given a press conference in which I summed it up in very positive terms.
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2
D:
Well, I think the journey was really a good one and was with good
results.
K:
I think it can be said that we probably had a historic meeting.
D:
Yes, I agree with you, Henry.
K:
Now on that agricultural thing, Anatol.
D:
I already sent to Kennedy.
K:
Good. Now what I will do is I will get it initialed
D:
He already initial.
K:
No, no, the President's - didn't you want it initialed from the
President too?
D:
Yeh. Yeh.
K:
I will get the President to initial his reply.
D:
Yes, exactly - only his reply with two additions you propose yesterday.
K:
Exactly. And yours is also changed?
D:
No, ours really as it is because I couldn't retype it, but when it will
be signed we are prepared to type it as you put it.
K:
OK.
D:
You understand because I already have the Russian text which was
you have it exactly and I didn't want to retype it this way - he just
initial but when it is signed we will include yours so we are quite
prepared to receive your letters or initials where your phrase is
already there.
K:
OK, fine, then I think that the best thing would be if you initialed
also our copy.
D:
That's all right with me. But then in this case I will initial because
he's not here.
K:
Of course that's fine.
D:
That's all right with me.
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3
K:
We trust you more than you trust me.
D:
(Laughs)
K:
But the only thing is now we have one minor problem, We have no
plane coming back today.
D:
When it could be delivered here tomorrow? When?
K:
Well I think before the evening, but what we can do is we have an
LDX machine so it will be a copy but it will have the President's
initial on it.
D:
OK, will be fine.
K:
Good, you will have it by the end of the day.
D:
Yes, this will be quite enough. OK.
K:
Good, thank you.
D:
And thank you very much Herr y, once again.
K:
Well, you and I did good work.
D:
Yes, and my personal thanks to the President, real ly. Please tell
him.
K:
You can count on it.
D:
Thank you Henry very much and now have a little bit rest.
K:
Thank you.
D:
Bye bye.
K:
Bye.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Mr. Kissinger/Secretary Shultz
12:30 p.m. 6/25/73
HK:
Hello George, two quick things.
One the President wanted me to make sure, which I'm sure requires--
which I'm sure isn't necessary that these letters we discussed yesterday
be kept secret until we make them formal.
GS:
Okay, well I haven't discussed them with anyone.
HK:
Good. And we'll just proceed as I mentioned yesterday. We won't
sign them --we'll just initial them which freezes the text.
GS:
I understand that Butz has given a memorandum to you.
identical
HK:
Right, which is idential/with yours and I talked with Butz afterward-.
It was essentially what you said.
GS:
Right.
HK:
And I talked to him after we talked and he fully supported it.
Second, could we have if their is a Voelker committee on international
monetary things, could Chuck Cooper sit in on that?
GS:
There is something called the Voelker group in which he can certainly
sit in--
HK:
I mean the Voelker group
GS:
And that is a staff group who are working on papers and so forth.
HK:
If he could--
GS:
Whenever when it comes to things that are important, then we assemble
a different kind of groups, and I just do that personally- Voelker is sort of
our staff secretary,
HK:
Yeh, well that's different. I'm talking about the staff group--
GS:
I have no objection to it.
HK:
Good. I'd appreciate that. Many thanks.
GS"
Okay. I signed today a memorandum for the President which will wind
up with you out there I presume having to do with the IDA and Asian
Development Bank
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Page 2
HK:
Oh yes.
GS:
On various conditions under the new
and so on - - these I have, but
before I would sign the memo I wanted to know whether or not it had been
cleared with NSC. I had been told he it had been cleared with your staff
HK:
I think I know the substance of it-- -
GS:
So you'll get it and then you can see whether you agree with it.
HK:
Good. If I have no problem I'll just send it into the President.
GS:
Okay. Thank you Henry.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Jerry Warren/Kissinger
6/25/73 - 5:30 p.m.
K:
Hello.
W:
Hello. It's Jerry, Henry.
K:
Yes, Jerry.
W:
I thought that went very well this morning.
K:
Yeh, I thought it was a good mood. I don't know how much they'll
cover given the day's events.
W:
I think they'll get it in. Now on your next briefing, Ron and I talked
about it and Ron is up to his ears in Watergate as you can imagine.
What would you think about tomorrow morning in an informal setting,
coffee and juice, rolls and things like that. I understand you're busy
tonight and I can understand that. We could set it up tonight but it's
awfully short notice.
K:
Yeh, no I can't do it.
W:
Right, but we would be happy to set it up tomorrow morning for some
time early in the morning like 8:30 or 9 o'clock.
K:
Why not Wednesday?
W:
Wednesday would be all right. We'll lose a lot of people like Murray
Marder and Marvin Kalb and Stan Carter and Bob Keatley of the
Wall Street Journal, Steven Barbour of the London
K:
Oh no, then let's do it tomorrow.
W:
I think if we did it tomorrow morning
K:
But in what setting could we do it - on the record?
W:
I think you should. I really think it should be on the record because
that way there would be no possibility of misinterpretation and we
K:
But what could I add - wouldn't it be better to wait for a day's news
play so that I see what additional comments there are.
W:
We'll do that in the morning but they're all going to be writing analysis
for Wednesday morning's paper. Today they're writing the communique
for tomorrow's paper.
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2
K:
Yeh.
W:
We could do this tomorrow morning after assessing how the spot
news played.
K:
But if you say instead of - well, I just wonder if it should be later
in the morning.
W:
If we do it earlier then these people have all day - we have all day
to work out your transcript to get it back to the important people people
back in Washington. Not to everybody but to the important/back
in Washington and have an embargo for Wednesday morning papers.
K:
All right, let's do it 9 o'clock tomorrow.
W:
Would you like to do it at the San Clemente Inn. We can get a room
there?
K:
It's up to you.
W:
Or we can do it here at Laguna.
K:
No, I don't want to go all the way up there.
W:
All right, why don't we do it at a room in the San Clemente Inn at
9 o'clock.
K:
OK, and that's for everybody?
W:
That's for everybody who's traveling with us; it's not for the locals,
you know. You'll have some Japanese in there and some French and
some Britishers.
K:
No television?
W:
No television. And no recorders - I mean no tape recorders.
K:
OK, but now the only thing I don't want to hear is that we're doing this
to take the heat off Watergate.
W:
No, as a matter of fact the reporters want it this way. It's not that you
scheduled it this way - it's that the reporters want it this way.
K:
Yeh, OK, fine. Look, what was that point that Dean made that Rockefeller
told me and I told the President and the President told him?
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W:
I think that was the point he made, I wasn't listening exactly, but
he said that the information got to Rockefeller who got it back to
Kissinger.
K:
That's total nonsense.
W:
Sure it is. Our position on the whole thing is - right now Ron's
position is that we're not going to deny these things in piecemeal
fashion. We're going to try to do it in an orderly fashion and pick
our own proper forum at the appropriate time and not be panicked
by this guy spilling a lot of things about a lot of different people.
K:
Yeh. I haven't seen it; I mean I just saw bits and pieces of it.
W:
That's all I saw too. I was on the phone most of the day.
K:
Yeh, OK, good - 9 o'clock.
W:
9 o'clock at the San Clemente Inn and we will alert you to what room
it is and have someone escort you.
K:
Good. Fine. Thank you.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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TELCON
June 26, 1973
Mr. Kissinger - Hugh Morrow
9:02 a.m.
K: Hello?
M: Hello, Henry.
K: Hugh, how are you?
M: OK.
M I wanted to call you about this testimony yesterday referring to your
announcement.
K: Right. Well, I have no recollection that Nelson ever said a thing like this
to me and I'm planning to deny it.
M: I think you are absolutely right.
K: And I don't believe that Nelson ever talked to Hoover.
M: I don't think he ever did either. The only thing that we might say is this:
it makes no sense to us and in any event we have no information on it and
no comment. The Governor is out of the state on vacation and not presently
available. Now, he should be calling in to Norm Hurd at some point.
K: Where is he?
M: Pardon?
K: Where is the Governor?
to
M: I wish I knew. He' not going that one country that you objected to.
Thank god. But, he's somewhere in Europe, Henry, I just don't know where.
When I talked to him Saturday he said he didn't know where he was going --
just heading East.
K: Well, Hugh, will you tell the Governor or get word to him that I'm not going
to volunteer anything. But, that if the issue comes up, I plan to say that I
had no such vonversation with Gov. Rockefeller and I reported no such thing
to the President.
M: Very good, Henry. I'm sure the Gov. will say the same thing.
K: Good.
M: Bye.
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TELCON
June 26, 1973
Mr. Kissinger - James Keat
9:20 a. m.
K: Hello?
Kt: Dr. Kissinger, Jim Keat of the Baltimore Sun.
K: Yes, how are you?
Kt: Fine. I'm most intrigued by the lack of information about the Middle
East and I understand there are considerable constraints on what you can
say but I was just wondering if you could discuss whether you got any feeling
that there is any further give in the Soviet position as opposed to about
a year or six months ago. Is there any prospect of further movement with
their cooperation.
K: Well, we're talking on the deep background basis.
I think everybody is constrained by their allies, but I think that probably
there is a willingness to undertake some reaxamination but I don't where it
willdaad for a little bit.
Kt: Now, you say, everybody is constrained by their allies, do you indicate
by that that the Russians still consider the Egyptians their allies? What the
nature
K: Well, I think they have a major stake in the Arab world, if not formally
by alliances. They have a stake in Iraq. They are concerned about their
basic position in the Arab world. Whether they are technically allies or not.
Kt: Uh huh. Well, does this leave them latitude to decide that a settlement
in which there must be a good amoint of giving on both sides is in their
interest?
K: Well, that is of course the big problem. Whether there is enough give
on both sides
to permit this. And, that we will totally see in the next
month.
Kt: Well, do you look for anything specific in the next few months?
K: I think we'll have to have some more exchanges before we can be sure
about that.
Kt:; What about your reading of Brezhnev personally now, as opposed to May '72.
K: Well, in May 1972 he was very anxious to show that it was a collective
leadership, partly, perhaps to split the blame about seeing us after the bombing.
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K: This time he made it very clear that he was in charge. When I first
met him in 1972 he followed his briefs more. I mean he was bound by
briefs he had in front of him. Now he speaks extemporaneously.
Kt: Now, does this reflect a greater confidence in his personal position or
a greater grasp of his material? Has he grown as someone who is dealing
with foreign policy?
K: Has he grown?
Kt: I mean, a man can be less tied to a brief either because he feels he
is the sole leader or because
K: No, he is more confident.
Kt: How much does he depend on Alexandrov?
K: No, Alexandrov wasn't much in the meetings here. I would have said
here he referred more to Gromyko, but there were many meetings where
he and the President and I met alone and there were a few where he and
the President met alone.
Kt: And
K: Alexandrov to my recollection was not present at any meetings.
Kt: Now at any meetings, or at any of the plenaries.
K: Well, he was present at two plenary meetings. But, now let run through
them. At the President's office, he wasn't present. At Camp Da vid, he was
present at one meeting but not at two others. And he wasn't present at either
of the two long meetings at San Clemente. And he wasn't present at the
airplane.
Kt: He wasn't?
K: I mean, he was on the airplane.
Kt: But not:up in the compartment.
K; Right.
Kt: Third and last. The guys who came here from Moscow were, I think
very strong in the belief that Brezhnev group really needed or wanted something
gold plated on the trade subject to take home and it doesn't seem to me that
he got it, at least not publicly.
K: Well, you know, I am struck, if I may be candid with you, by how the press
has a tendency to raise a certain expectation. Then when it doesn't happen
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K: even though there wasn't any basis for it to begin with, they say there must
have been a disappointment. Now, I can tell you, I have worked on the Summit
since the last Summit. This doesn't prove anything but I tell you nothing happened
that was not foreseen. Now if youtell me we should have foreseen bigger things
but
there never was a plan to come up with anything concrete in the
economic field at the Summit. At no stage was there such a plan. Nothing much
can happen until MFN is þassed. And, really, the substance of the Summit
went substantially as planned. You have to understand, and this is off the
record, right now there is such a mood of melaise --but look at the Summit
in terms it was designed. If this summit had occureed as it did three months
after the last Americans had left VN, in an atmosphere of American rexx
national domestic reconcilation, everyone would say this was the big turning
toward peace. That's when the agreement on the prevention on nuclear war
would have had some symbolic significance. Now, when everyone is fly
specking because they feel attention is being diverted, you have to put the
design of the Summit into a different setting than its execution. And, therefore
since the design was to mark maybe the end of the Cold War period, it wasn't
really ever considered that this would be a hugh economic summit.
Kt: Well, without disputing what you say about the press' expectation, the
thing that struckmel early last week through the Wash. and Camp David
statement, this was the point that they kept hammering on. Now, were they
just talking to the American public
K: I think they thought they could make a major impact on the Senate by their
meeting with the Foreign Relations Committee which incidently was the wrong
Committee to meet with since their economic
it was not the wrong
Committee for Foreign Policy. That is not where they are having trouble.
Kt: But Dobrynin knows that. Is he less sharp on Amer. politics than he
is credited to be?
K: No, he is very sharp. But he may not be the only advisor.
And you know, it is a question of
you have to take my word for it. There
never was any plan for a specific outsome. The economic section of the
communique
again off the record.
was written before they W ever got
here.
Kt: OK. Can you clarify this business of the mixed meeting between Nixon
and Brezhnev? Now I think one of the reason for the confusion is that some
of the questions themselves are confused. Are we talking about
Were there two separate meetings? One which would be the President's
return to Moscow as the next Soviet-Amer. Summit but that there might be
before that a CSCE summit.
is that what he had in mind?
K: I'll tell you the truth. You must always allow for the fact that leaders
get carried away with themselves. If he was thinking of anything than exuberance.
In my opinion there is no possibility of a return visit to Moscow within a year
and I don't see how we could get another Summit put together with any success
in 6 to 8 months. And we certainly will not go a summit to have had a meeting.
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4
K: I mean short of some overwhelming cataclysmic
crisis. So if
he was thinking of anything at all it must have been hoping for a European
security conference. On that opposition they said it depends on the
evolution of the European security conference. And we are neutral on it.
My guess is that the Europeans will be pushed into wanting a summit and
then we will have to go along.
I mean we are neutral. We have no overwhelming desire no way or another.
Kt: Why is he talking to Pompidou now?
K: I think he's talking to Pompidou because we stopped in Warsaw on our
way back from Moscow and so he can do the same thing in our alliance.
Second, because the French like to create the impression that they have
an independent field of activity and think those are the principle reasons.
We're not concerned about it.
Kt: No, I wasn't indicating that. Do you have any feeling whether it
was by French initiative or by Soviet initative?
K: I am not sure. I think it is one of those things that serve both of their
purposes. We've got slightly conflicting reporte.
Kt: Is there anything else in the way of just general results or impressi ons
that you would like to convey if that background does get held.
or a feeling
K: Well, you know I am apologetic about this god-damn meeting. I was
willing to do it anytime it suited the press. It turned into a national issue,
I mean at least a local issue.
Kt: I distinctly had the impression last night that you did not call off the
last session.
That was not my question.
K: Well, I think, candidly, I believe this meeting, this summit, if we are
lucky in trying to bring off this over a period of years, could be seen in
retrospect as extremely important. See, if you have a score card and say
what achievements were break throughs and what aren't. As I explained
yesterday, if this policy takes hold, we can't have break throughs as such.
Because the turn has been accomplished. But it was the first time that
there have been two sequential summits between Soviet and Amer. leaders
so that for the first time
all other have been one-sided affairs.
And they have never had a program to pursue over the years.
Now, as I said, this thing could reverse again. It's getting harder to reverse.
With so many bureaucracies involved on both sides, and after all, take the
Soviet situation, in all the newspapers they've seen every agreement has
been printed in their newspapers. Three quarters of their newspapers have
been devoted to this for a week. I don't underestimate their ability to reverse
course. But you pursue this for another year or so and at least it is
something that must be considered. So I think this summit, if we are able to
put all the other pleces in place too around the world, could be seen as one
of the major steps in a international order. And you can't just
measure it in terms of this or that agreement. When you are dealing with
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5
crisis you could measure progress in terms of agreement. When you are
putting up a building you.. have to look at the total architecture.
Kt: Do you get the feeling that they are really basically anxious to develop
this relationship as we are?
K: Yes, I think they are as anxious but what their own reasons are I must
tell you I would reserve judgment on that. But it has often happened in
history that something was started for one reason and developed a momentum
of its own.
Kt: Do you have any feeling that they might lean harder on Hanoi? As part
of this developing relationship with us?
K: My impression is that they will not stir up the situation in VN.
Kt: I was thinking of the other direction.
rather than stir uxpx it up,
K: I think they will contribute to stabilizing it
But that is also off the record.
Kt: OK. Thanks very much
K: Bye.
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TELCON
June 26, 1973
Mr. Kissinger - Ambassador Dobrynin
11:00 m.
K:
You think that is all right the way it is.
D: Yes.
K: O.K.
D:
K:
which we have some thought about it in regard to Salt.
K: Anatole, we have been receiving some information with respect
to silos which we have in
and rather than put it into
an official channel we will put in in a private channel.
D: O.K.
K: I would
ik
appreciate some sort of answer.
D: O.K.
what I mentioned to you yesterday.
K: Yes, and he was very pleased. I am staying in the U.S. That
is pure speculation. You know, that is Marvin Kalb again.
D: When will you be back?
K: Around the 8th.
D:
Elizabeth and David.
K: That's very kind of you. Yes, around the 8th. And Anatole,
you got the letter yesterday.
D: Yes, and thank you very much.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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TELCON
June 26, 1973
Mr. Kissinger - Hugh Morrow
11:19 m.
I reached the Governor in London and he said
M:
that obviously there could never have been a conversation between you
Nelson on that subject.
K: How about putting that out?
M: I'm going to right away.
K: Good.
M: OK?
K: Good.
M: I'v.
we've got several ferries, we'll see that it gets around.
K: It would be helpful to me. I don't recall that we ever had such a conversation.
M: Nelson said no. He said he didn't recall it. And, he said, in any event,
J. Edgar Hoover never told me anything.
K: The whole thing sounds absurd.
M: Yeah, its a funny statement. It's a speculative kind of thing. It quotes
Nelson er Sullivan as saying. And, of course, Sullivan was mad at J. Edgar
at the time. Ah, it's
K: I didn't actually see it. What did he actually say? That Sullivan said.
M: Yeah, this was Dean recounting a conversation with the President in which
Dean quotes Sullivan as having said that he understood J. Edgar Hoover who
was represented as disapproving of wiretaps on newsmen and members of the
White House Staff as having said this to somebody and that it probably came back.
or that Rockefeller got a hold of it somehow and that it came back to the W.H.
from Gov. Rockefeller talking to you.
K: Yeah, well that's total nonsense.
M: Yeah, well, that's what Nelson said. Absolute nonsense.
K: Because, first of all, between you and me, Ididn't know newsmen were being
taped.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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2
M: Well, obviously I didn't know either. But, anywow, that.
T11 get the
statement right away.
K: Good. Many thanks.
M: Take care.
K: Bye.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON (San Clemente)
Melvin Laird/Kissinger
1:32 p.m. - 6/26/73
K:
Hello.
L:
Henry.
K:
How are you, Mel?
L:
Good, how are you getting along?
K:
OK.
L:
Henry, they've tied that amendment on now that Continuing Resolution
and I guess they're going to tie it on the debt limit. Now on the
supplemental I don't think there was any problem with it. It would have
been better if we only had to battle it on one. We lost it by very few
votes. It was a tie vote yesterday.
K:
Yeh.
L:
I hope you look at that real carefully and make sure that you need
the authority. If you're sure you need it
K:
I would like it for two months, yes.
L:
It really jeopardizes any chance of success without it.
K:
It substantially jeopardizes it, yes.
L:
Well, I think that we can probably sustain the veto. I don't know what
we'll do from then but you know they're going to blame it - this is all
going to be tied up in the context of Watergate. That's the problem
with this damn thing the way it's going. You understand that, don't
you, Henry, that we lost votes today because of that damn hearing
yesterday.
K:
No, I don't.
L:
Well, we did.
K:
I mean, did we lose again today?
L:
Yeh. We lost again today. They put it on the Continuing Resolution,
the same amendment but they put it on by a vote of about 25 or 30 votes.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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2
K:
Well, what's your judgment; Mel?
L:
Well if it's needed, if this authority is needed for success in Cambodia,
then you have to veto. But if there's a chance of success - a fairly
reasonable chance -- without it I'd hate to tie up the whole damn
government. Follow me?
K:
Yeh.
L:
If they tie up the government and don't pay social security employees
and others, they are going to not blame the bombing thing, they are
going to blame Watergate.
K:
Yeh, it's a pity we lost it by a tie vote, isn't it?
L:
Yeh, it was a shame. But today it was worse in the House. Today
I got rolled by about 25 votes.
K:
I just don't see how we can handle it. Everything is just going to come
apart in Cambodia if we stop bombing. I think we can get it done in
two months. Can you help us?
L:
Sure, I'll help.
K:
We will accept the September 1st cut off. I told our idiot guys that
if nothing else worked, I'd accept it.
L:
Yeh.
K:
And they told me they had a chance at it without it.
L:
Yeh, but you remember I talked to you about that, Henry.
K:
My position has been I prefer not to have the cutoff but it's a helluva
lot better than a July 1 cutoff.
L:
Well today they voted against the September 1 cutoff by over 25 votes.
K:
And you think that's the hearing yesterday.
L:
Well, I think that contributed to it, yes.
K:
You think that hearing is a setback? What is your assessment?
L:
Well, it is right now. I think we'll get over it but it'll be a tough four
weeks.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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3
K:
You do?
L:
Yeh, a very tough four week period because I mean you're going to
have Mitchell and Haldeman and Ehrlichman. These guys aren't
going to be a standup as a lot of people think they are you know.
K:
Certainly not Mitchell and Ehrlichman.
L:
Yeh.
K:
No, I have no illusions about that.
L:
Yeh. You know when they' re facing the penitentiary they - you have
to understand that, Henry.
K:
Yeh, although they're not helping themselves. Doesn't do them any
good to dump it on the President. It doesn't make them any less
culpable.
L:
No, I think the best you could probably get now is if you come out
for a 30 or a 45 day thing and support it on this other question. I
don't think you can go back to the September 1 date. Henry, by the
way the vote was 218 to 194 - 24 vote spread.
K:
Yeh. Do you think we could have won it on a September 1 cutoff?
L:
We could have won it if we would have supported it. You follow me?
K:
Yeh.
L:
But we couldn't win it without coming out supporting it. You see there's
a difference there.
K:
I understand. Well, I had always assumed we would go to that if we
stood a chance of losing the other one.
L:
Yeh, but all the heat was put on the other one and that was the tou gh
one you see. But we don't need to talk about that. The problem that
we have now Henry is that if it's absolutely essential for Cambodia,
I think the best you can get is from 30 - 45 days.
K:
30 is almost useless; 45 could help.
L:
And that would have to be done with the support of the Administration.
Whether you want to go that far I don't know. It would have to be the
veto with the understanding that he was vetoing and asking for 45 days
more because of negotiations.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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4
L:
And I think that weakens your negotiating position to such an extent
that you might as well not have the authority.
K:
Yeh. We really have to think about whether we are not better off
saying these sons-of-bitches just are responsible for the defeat.
L:
Politically, you'd be better off - I don't think Cambodia will ever
work out very well anyway and I'd like to be able to blame these
guys for doing it myself. But that's - Henry, you know I'm a kind of
a black character and I'd like to blame these guys for the incapability
of getting these things resolved because I think it's damn touch and
go to get it resolved as far as Cambodia is concerned anyway.
K:
Yeh.
L:
I'd like to be able to blame them.
K:
No, we'd have a pretty good chance because we got the Chinese involved
and the Soviets involved but I get your point. If we say - 45 days won't
do us a goddamn bit of good.
L:
Then I think if the President comes out and says that's all he needs
that weakens your negotiating position anyway.
K:
That's impossible. OK, I'll call you tomorrow about this. Is that
time enough?
L:
Yeh, sure Henry, I just wanted to talk to you because I wanted you to
make sure that you address these issues, that's all.
K:
Right, I'll call you tomorrow, Mel.
L:
All right, Fine, Henry.
K:
Bye.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Secure Phone
Dr. Schlesinger/Kissinger
1:45 p.m. - 6/26/73
K:
Hello.
S:
How are you doing?
K:
OK.
S:
The House, as you probably know, has voted through the Continuing
Resolution and just added the An
amendment which precluded
any military action in any of the four countries without explicit
authorization of Congress. The cutoff of activities in Cambodia is
at midnight on the 30th. A Continuing Resolution is something that
is normally not even considered for veto so we are going to have
to face up to the question of a partial evacuation of Americans out of
Phnom Penh.
K:
Yeh, I just think that a partial evacuation together with a cutoff will
lead to a total collapse in Cambodia,
S:
It points in that direction. I asked Bill Colby to run out to the station
to see what their expectations are going to be.
K:
Yes.
S:
We lost it.
K:
By 24 votes.
S:
Well, it was a 60 vote margin on the critical vote. Something like
232 - 170. It is just getting weaker and weaker each day and the
Continuing Resolution was passed by 385 - 90. As a result even a
veto could be contemplated for a Continuing Resolution - it could be
overridden. It also puts us into a very (tough) position
funds after the Fiscal Year.
K:
It is getting impossible to do anything in Indochina.
S:
That is right.
We can³t
the bombing should the North
Vietnamese resume the bombing.
K:
Or the mining.
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2
S:
Well, the mining I have to check on. That may be sufficiently gray
area that it is possible, but the Resolution was pretty well
.
K:
That finishes us.
S:
That's right. We have run out of string on this one. I trust the
North Vietnamese will stay put and the responsibility for the pending
collapse of Cambodis should be pinned on the Congress. Normally
they bitch at the Executive Branch. They should be made to recognize
it is their responsibility. I think it should bring over in time some
improvement of the public
K:
Yes, but it doesn't help us anywhere.
S:
Not in Cambodia.
K:
So the Continuing Resolution applies only for two months.
S:
Yes, but they will
on to
after that.
What I am hoping here is the debacle in Cambodia will
them
into their place.
K:
OK, I will talk to the President and let you know tomorrow.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/Mr. Maw
9:15 a. m.
6/27/73
CM:
Hello, Henry, how are you.
HK:
Carl, how are you.
CM
Fine.
HK
I wanted to ask you as a general rule, I am getting some awards now
for distinguished public service, some of which have money attached to
them, what is my position with respect to that.
CM:
I think you could accept provided there are no strings, if it is just an
an award.
HK:
No, no it is an award.
There are two that I am getting.
CM:
What are we talking about?
HK:
One is--I don't know what it is called just being founded, but it is a very
prestigious group. I know Jackie Kennedy is the Vice Chairman, it's a
bipartisan group of very senior people. I can get you a list, but Terry
Sanford, I think from each state--one or two from each state and they are
giving their first awards July 4.
CM:
And it would be a public award of merit accomplishment
HK:
That's right.
And that has I think $5, 000. And then there is another one for which
Mrs. Longworth is going to give to me that is in honor of her father,
that is given annually- I think that has $1, 500 attached to it.
CM:
I think that is quite all right. But let me just check it out and come back
to you in a couple of hours.
HK:
Can you do that--not just on the legality, which I assume it has to be
legal, but on the ethics of it. Youknow, I can do three things, I can
accept it and keep it, I can accept it and turn it over to charity, or I
can accept the award and not take the money.
CM:
That's right. I'll come back to you later--where are you now, in
Washington?
HK:
I'm in San Clemente but you can reach me through Washington or you
can reach me at 714 492 0011.
CM:
I'll be back with you this afternoon,
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Page 2
HK:
Just been watching Mr. Dean on television. I don't think you'd hire
him for your law firm, would you?
CM:
I should say not, I started to look at it last night, got bored sick.
There is something awful funny.
HK:
I never knew him, thank Go d
CM:
Did you ever meet him at all?
HK:
The amazing thing is I would get memos--legal memos from his office
and then I'd see this young guy run around the halls and I never put the
name and the face together. I always thought that the Counsel to the
President had to be a senior guy. So I never thought that this young guy
could be the John Dean who was sending me memos.
CM
Extraordinary.
HK:
So I don't recall any meetingI have had with him.
HK:
XM:
He may have sat in large meetings where he didn't say anything.
But if I had to testify I would have to say I never talked to him.
I have no recollection to any conversation with him.
CM:
That's good. He is not one to have dealings with.
HK:
Well he mentioned me once. He claimed that J Edgar Hoover had told
Rockefeller who had told me who had told the President who had told him
that J. Edgar Hoover objected to the wire tapping of four newsmen.
Rockefeller has already denied talking to Hoover or to me. And I
have to deny that I talked to either Rockefeller or XX to the President,
on this matter.
But he just slipped that KCX in it was just--it
was directed at me.
CM:
Okay, Henry, I'll be back at you this afternoon.
HK:
Good.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON
Dr. Kissinger/Dr. Schlesinger
(SECURE)
6/27/73 10:15 a. m.
S:
We did a little better--they knocked out North Vietnam and South
Vietnam on the Mahon Amendment- very close - now we have only
Laos and Cambodia.
K:
You know we intend to veto that.
S:
I understand that you sent up already a supplemental on the Hill.
K:
Right.
S:
On the CRA will will have some problems on the veto on that.
K:
We want you to hang tough on this - If we are driven out of Indochina
let Congress do it not us. We don't want to panic. This is an
outrage. If anyone wants to take the responsibility, let them to it
then. Jim, will you get the Department of Defense to stop talking
about what it will and will not do.
we
S:
I don't know what anyone has said. Jerry has only said that/will
obey the law.
K:
We will have to use our ingeniity to keep this thing goind- - - I hope we
get al teast 30 days. It's not all we need, but it will help.
S:
I hope we get more.
K:
We want 60 days.
S:
They (Congress) are going to hang something on one of these bills
which will make it impossible to veto. But I think Congress is
signing a death warrant. Henry, I have a letter you received from
Cromer.
K:
Yes.
S:
You are familiar with the problems. The issue is whether you should
have a todo with Congress to give Britian MIRV's technology. I read
into your letter that you are not worried about Russian
I think we should just given them the warhead and defense mechanisms
technology- that is all they need. They don't need MIRVs.
DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 13526, Section 3.5
Per Hr. 11-20-2013
By NARA, Date 4-22-2016
NLN08-47/12370[E.10f2]
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Page 2
K:
I am not committed to that (to give MIRV's tech to Britian). Just
wanted to pass it on to you. My instinct is that they don't need
the MIRV accuracy. But explain that to me in your reply to me.
They will settle for the other. Well they have no coice.
S:
Right. They have understood we are reluctant to pass MIRVs
on to them.
K:
We can give MIRV later in exchange for stmething else maybe during
SALT.
S:
I think we should get something out of it rather than just give it
away.
K:
Right, Jim. Bye.
S:
Bye.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Cong. Holifield/Mr. Kissinger
10:34 a. m. 6/28/73
HK:
with respect to Cambodia
H:
yes.
HK:
I know it's çoming up today and I reall feel very strongly that we now
partly as a result of our discussions here, partly as a result of other
things, that we have an opportunity to wind this thing up and if the Senate
version were adopted it might really totally destroy this and I was wondering
if I could appeal to you to help us support the House version.
CH:
Well I have pretty well gone along with the President's program all the way
but I'm in doubt on this particularthing, Dr. Kissinger, I want to listen to
the debate today on it before I make my decision, but frankly I am leaning
toward voting for the Eagleton amendment. I wouldn't Xisabase you.
I'm not committed on it yet to anyone, but I can see very little reason for
continued bombing. I stayed with the President all through the Vietnam
situation right up until the last, but it looks a little different to me now
and I'm - frankly I'm leaning toward the Eagleton amendment.
HK:
Well, ah, you see, our view is (1) we can reduce the bombing considerably
and I can tell you now that if we don't succeed except when it is made public
it doesn't help us, by September we'll be prepared to go along with this.
CH:
Ah huh.
HK:
But we are so close to getting this negotiation under way, that we'd just like
to have an opportunity to see it develop without being stopped in the very last
weeks of what would than be a successful disengagement, by the Congress
quite frankly I mean you arenot here voting for an open ended commitment
and this I want to assure you of
CH:
I'll consider it very carefully Dr. Kissinger and I see that the bells have
just rung for a vote - don't know whether it is on this or or something else
so I will have to go the floor and I appreciate your calling.
HK:
Right, nice to talk to you.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/Taft Schreiber
11:20 a.m. 6/27/73
HK:
Taft, I'm giving a dinner this Friday for the French FonMin and the
following Friday for the Chinese Amb. here and I've asked Lou
Wasserman for this Friday and I thought if you could come the following
Frid for the Chinese.
TS:
I'd love to but--but we're leaving Sat morn for Europe.
HK:
Then do you want to come this Friday?
TS:
I'd love to, but I have to check my house -
Where are you going to do that?
HK:
I wanted to ask your advice on that
or the Bistro
TS:
I would suggest either Chassons depending on the number of people
HK:
I'll have about 20-22
TS:
I think either place would do and if you want help from us in arranging
like photographer and celebrities - I'll make calls for you.
HK:
We can do the inviting if - what would be a big help to me is if somebody
from your office they did su ch a beautiful job in getting the room set
up--
TS:
I can get Herb to do it--for about 20 people-
HK:
The one for the Chinese may be a bit bigger
TS:
Whatever you want--I'll have Herb call you back-
HK:
Can he call Mrs. Andrews in my office? And will you let me know whether
you can come.
TS:
Yes, well call you right back who would you ask - Lou for the following
Friday
HK:
No, I'll have you both-
TS:
Because he's leaving on Sat or Sun for Europe we have a board meeting
HK:
I see. Can have two executives from Universal considering that I'm going
to be your leading man.
TS:
Your buttering both sides of the bread.
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Page 2
HK:
I might get a weekly serial.
TS:
You are going to write you own ticket as an actor. WhenI see
General Secretary Brezhnev kiss you on both cheecks - I read in
Time Mag - - that your advising him - - he doesn't even talk to his
own advisor- - - that's the kind of advisor I want.
HK:
He and I have a great relationsip
TS:
I willget on this right away.
HK:
Good.
TS:
Bye.
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TELCON
Richard Valeriani/Mr. Kissinger
6/27/73
2:20
p.m.
DV:
I wanted to check in terms of the veto message--about the ongoing
diplomatic efforts to get a settlement in Cambodia. Have they progressed
any since last you talked to them.
HK:
I can't give daily progress reports
DV:
In terms of this development--are we talking bout something sic months a
away?
HK:
No, I have said we are talking about something that we hope to condude
during this summer.
DV:
And ah
HK:
This is on deep background
DVL
Right. Is there any recent development or do you have any imminent
that you will participate in to speed this along.
HK:
I can't go into that except to say that we have-- I think to cut this thing
off now would be a calamity. Without giving us an opportunity to bring
the effort in which we are engaged to a conclusion.
DV:
Is there something--
HK:
It is not a question of whether to give a day=to-day progress rpport
--it is obvious for example that certain things have to wait till Sihounok
returns to Peking which won't be for another few days. But I can't
go any more deeply into it. And you ought to remember these this
is now being played like a rerun of all the Vietnam debates of recent
years. But the Nietnam war is over. We nægotiated a settlement.
What conceivable reason--no flyers are being lost no prisoners are
being taken. We are trying to wind up the last þhase in the -consistent
with the other settlement. That is all this a is about. This is not a
Indochina war thing.
DV:
If the Senate says okay look if this DS still going by October 1 or Nov. 1
HK:
It 4 would be very understanble then the difficulty with that is this
--we can do that as a gentleman's understanding with the Senate--it
would be somewhat counterproductive to make it legislation--see what
I mean.
DV:
I unnderstand why you can't have a fixed deadline to negotiate again--
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TELCON
Page 2
HK:
But in terms if the leaders of the SEnate came to us and said October 1
we would think this is a reasonable proposition.
But we would like it as a gentleman's agreement. But speculate on
that on your own, will you?
DV:
Okay.
HK:
You can'ascribe that to sources, but to give you some feeling for what
we are thinking.
DV:
That's what I'm looking for -
HK:
We would nd think that someone is asking anything unreasonable
of us if that twere the way it went.
DV:Q
Okay fine, thank you very much.
HK:
Good.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON
Lou Wasserman/Mr. Kissinger
9:30 a. m. 6/27/73
LW:
Hi, Henry, I won't ask how you are doing down there.
HK:
There must be some shit in the country that we didn't hire in our
staff. Somebody said to me yesterday he must be in Kuwan tapping
somebody elses telephone.
LW:
That's right.
HK:
Lou I'm giving a dinner Friday night for the French FonMin
and I wondered whether you and your wife would like to come
LW:
Sure I would love to.
HK:
Good, then let me let you know where it is going to be.
LW:
Sure, we'd be happy to come.
HK:
Good, I'll let you know, it is informal
I'll let you know the - -
LW:
I'll look forward to seeing you and cheering you up if I can.
HK:
Youregreat. They haven't gotten to the K's in the testimony yet
so I am pretty safe.
LW:
I heard something about the K's from our friend Herb
HK:
Isn't that awful. You know the tragedy of so many well-meaning,
dedicated man who got themselves destøoyed.
LW
Wiped out for no reason.
HK:
For petty baloney. Good Lou, see you Friday night.
LW:
See you Friday night.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Mr. Kissinger/Cong. Morgan
10:45 a. m. 6/28/73
HK:
Hello, Mr. Chairman?
M:
Yes, Henry.
HK:
How are you?
M:
Pretty good.
HK:
I don't normally call congressman about congressional--abou votes,
in fact I've never done it, but I think that vote on Cambodia today
is really so important that I wanted you to have our view which is that
the House version is one we can live with, but the Eagleton amendment
would be really very serious.
M:
Ah huh.
HK:
And I can tell you personally we don't intend to carry this beyond the
summer but we have sùch a good chance we think of getting it wound
up that we--that a negative vote now would really have a rather serious
consequences.
M:
Well a vote is going on now and the previous question is already-- I voted
but I'll take your views into consideration on this final vote. You know.
Do you think it is really important.
HK:
I think it is really very important, and I don't think I have ever called you
before.
M:
No sir.
Okay, Henry, but it'll cause me some real difficulty back in my area.
HK:
Well I think though you'd be vindicated wikhouxtxix within not too distant
a future. I think by the end of the summer.
M:
Yeh, okay thanks for calling Henry.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Pierre Salinger/Kissinger
11:12 a. m. - 6/28/73
K:
Hello.
S:
Hello.
K:
How are you, Pierre?
S:
Oh, how are you?
K:
OK.
S:
Things are all right in California?
K:
(Laughs) Yeh.
S:
Listen, the reason I'm calling is - do you see any dates either next
week or the week after or in the near future when we can do that
interview or have you cooled on the idea or what?
K:
No, but I frankly want to get at least this week's hearings behind us.
S:
Yeh,
K:
Before I make any decisions when I'm going to say something.
S:
Let me tell you my problem; it's not your problem obviously but I'm
going back to Paris tonight and in principle I'm going off on vacation
at the end of the week.
K:
Why don't you do that.
S:
Which would mean that I wouldn't be available until early August.
K:
That's a better time anyway.
S:
It is?
K:
Yeh.
S:
We leave it that way.
K:
Let's leave it that way.
S:
OK, you' re very nice to call back.
K:
Have a good vacation.
S:
Thanks a lot. Bye.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Mr. Kissinger/Taft Schreiber
11:35 a. m.
6/28/73
HK:
Hello
TS:
Henry, Taft.
HK:
Taft, I still can't take that job.
TS:
Ah huh. Listen you better do it while you've got all these things going
on. You know bringing the Premier here, the next thing you are going
to do is bring Mao here and then Chou and this is the hot period.
So we have to get your pricture on the screen while you are always on
the front page newspaper.
HK:
I'll consider it. Depends on the leading lady.
TS:
All right. We'll give you your pick.
HK:
It was good to see you.
TS:
It was wonderful seeing you Henry and I can imagine how busy you've been
and it was a very trying time for everyone. But I'm sure it will all be fine.
I have every reason to believe that everything will be great. There probably
going to be some people that are hurt, but it won't be our President.
HK:
No.
is
TS:
The reason I called you/that Sunday after the line was over and Henry
Salvitore said to me, let's ask the President if we can go with a special
group from this group here to Russiarto see if we can't do something
about helping the business relationships between our two countries, he
said here is Dave Packard, head of the largest electronic company,
Tex Thornton, Litton Industries, O Miller, Chairman of Standard Oil,.
you (Taft) from the movie industry and said--he--his company by the
way is the largest exploration company for gas and oil-- the greatest
scientists in oil and gas and mineral explorations.
HK:
Right.
pulled
TS:
So I said fine, let's go ask him, so Italk him to walk over in he said how
can you do this, I said I just am a man that asks. So I the President-
the line had been over and the President was listening in on a conversation
between Brezhnev and Reagan and I walked up and he turned to me and I
told him what had happened and he said the interpreter picked this up--
he kind of pushed me in the interpreter told Brezhnev and Brezhnev
said well if the trip is sponsored by the President, I'm sure it would be
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Page 2
fine, but I think there are many things we have to do why don't you talkl
to Dobrynin and the President and when the interpreter the President
said of course, he said, these are wonderful men and great friends of
yours and our country and they could-- I think it would be fine. And he
siad there are a lot of details to be worked Brezhnev was saying this
in Russian--and then we said look we're patient, we will do everything we
are asked to do and with that he stuck his hand out in Russian, you're
invited. So the President said yœ've got your deal now; I understood SO
walked away. Well Henry was in the state of shock. I talked to A1 Hiag
for a minute and told him about it and he said fine. He said fine--oh yeh
Brezhnev said be sure be in touch with Dobrynin about this Now I talked
--oh I mentioned to the President that Firestone who is there had told
me coming down they had been thinking of building a plant there now, so
I toldthis to Al and he said this was fine, let me know what--how you want
to further this. Well in talking to Henry Salvatore this morning he said
you know I don't know whether we should ask our wives or should go it alone
and I think business is all business and we'd like to be of help and we're
a special group and I think it ought to go to the mission and I said let me
talk to Henry Kissinger because I think if we are not going to have wives
this should be indicated rather than coming from you and I because we'll
have nothing but trouble but what Henry Salvatore is talking about is our
engaging and we know it'll cost a lot of dough but hiring a large private
jet and going there and trying to visit several cities and meeting people
and maybe breaking in special groups where I can talk to motion picture
people--this is not to upen up a trade between us but mayb e tell some of
their people that we'd be hapþy to make a picture or two there and maybe
bring some of their technicians over to see what we do and generally
trying to further if it is useful--
HK:
Look if you want to do the thing realistically write me a letter of what you
want and let me take it up with Dobrynin.
TF:
All right. Now I will do that but I want to find out from you really is advice
if you say Taft I don't think you ought to do it--I don't think it would be
constructive, I don't --I think you put the President in a spot--
HK:
Let me see the letter. I think it could be useful. I think basically we'd
be for it.
TF:
All right. That's the purpose and when you talk to the President you might
tell him that we had this conversation so that it is only going to be done if
if's useful and helpful.
HK:
Absolutely no question.
TF:
No. 2, Wasserman called and said how was the affair and so forth I said
great and he said you talk to Henry again, I said no I saw him for a minute
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he was with a beautiful girl--who the hell wants to talk business SO he
said anymore been said and I said I think we are on a time schedule--
and he would get back to us--so he said to me then I hear he is making
a deal with an oil group--and I said I don't know-- I don't think there is
any glamour in that. Just wanted to tell you he bugs me all the time
HK:
No, no I'm not talking to anybody else because of this watergate think
I didn't think I could resign right now.
TS:
Well you shouldn't Henry. It would be a terribly terribly bad thing.
I think it may delay your schedules a little bit but at the same time
I think you're so necessary in these relationships that are being put
together that your country is more important than anything else right now.
HK:
I thought that I should wait until this thing shou has quieted down before
I go back to my original scheme.
TS:
All right. Let me just say again that (a) that it should quiet down in due
course and (b) the appetite is greater. I have had a couple--I know Lou
hasn't talked to anybody you see, but said wouldn't he be great--
7,
HK:
Actually Mike! Frankiewicz mentioned it to me the other day and I just
just as an idea and I had lunch with him--I just acted as if--I brushed
if off.
TS:
You should because I know Lou hasn't told anybody- I think it would
take a pretty stupid man not to figure out that this wouldn't be a
the fact is that it could be almost a difference between everything in the
future and SO we're being patient they're just--if I keep mentioning it
to you it's not because I'm bugging you, because I'm fine.
HK:
Well I appreciate this very much.
TS:
Okay, Henry if there is anything that I can do please let me know.
We're going to get to England for 5-6 days--I've got a board meeting
and then play golf and I'll be in NY about 15th of July. However, I'll
get this off sometime today--are you staying here or going back to Washington
HK:
I'll stay until about the 8th or 9th.
TS:
Then I'll get this off to you right away. If you need anything let me know
will you?
HK:
Thank you.
TS:
All right. Bye.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Sec. Clements/Kissinger
1:57 p.m. - 6/28/73
K:
Hello.
C:
Henry.
K:
Yes, how are you?
C:
I'm just fine. Hope I didn't interrupt too much out there for you.
K:
No, that's all right.
C:
Henry, I have a problem here that we've got to decide today or tomorrow
that just came to my attention because of the contract program that
has to do with SCAD. Now very quickly and briefly you can jot some of
this down, it won't take but just about 3 minutes to get the high points.
We now have a program on SCAD that will give us 25% armed decoys
and the other 75% will not be armed. We've spent $60 million to date
on R & D and we have a total to go of $315 million R & D and after we
complete that, if we do successfully, production is going to be approxi-
mately $1 billion for 864 of the missilès.
K:
Right.
C:
So in effect they're about $1 million a piece. Now that's funded, Henry
on a program of $72 million in FY '74; $134 million for FY 175 and
$75 million for FY 176. What's happening here is that our group and
I have to concur in this - I don't have to, I do concur - our group, the
DSART Group and everybody is saying we don't really think that this
program has this kind of merit and this is the lowest priority item on
the list and therefore we feel that we can't support it and we should
stop it before we get this kind of money in it. I'm thinking, first of
all, Henry, NSC may want this program for cosmetic reasons with the
SALT talks being where they are.
K:
That's right.
C:
And furthermore we might be able to go ahead and accomplish two
purposes, we might be able to drop this program on Saturday as such
and then renegotiate it in a different form at a different spending level -
and I'm talking about now
K:
Well, we wouldn't be happy about your dropping the program.
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2
C:
What I'm trying to do, Henry, is to reduce the level of the spending
and retain the technology because we have some $60 million in the
R & D now and the technology fits the so-called cruise missile. It's
the same technology
K:
When do you have to have our answer?
C:
The damn program is going to run out on Saturday.
K:
How is it that we learn about it so late?
C:
Well, Henry, the question that you asked is the same question I asked
and the answer is that they just didn't come to call with the thing and
didn't bring it in here for discussion until about 15 minutes ago. I
don't mean 15 minutes, it's 30 minutes, but I've been talking about it
for 30 minutes and I know what the program is. Now what we ought
to do here is retain the technology, keep the technology going forward,
concentrate on the cruise missile aspects of it
K:
Well, what decision are you asking me to make then?
C:
What I'm asking you to do is to give me your best thoughts on how much
importance you put to this insofar as the cosmetics for SALT, that's
all I'm asking you.
K:
Well, we would like to keep the maximum amount of the program going?
C:
Maximum amount?
K:
That's right.
C:
Hell, that's $50 million worth. It's funded right now into the present
program and under the existing contract for $72 million in 1974 and
I don't think that Congress is going to sit still for it.
K:
Well, the maximum possible amount then. What would they hold still
for?
C:
I think that we could go for about half that and concentrate on the cruise
missile aspects and use that technology on something that you and I
both have a helluva high interest in.
K:
I must tell you honestly, Bill, I'm getting very restive about the way
these things are being handled. We are operating on thinner and thinner
margins. Every service is getting so god damned selfish - I mean we
just can't operate this way. You know that
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3
C:
Now look Henry don't tell me about something like this because I've
got a lot of complaints too. And we're doing the best we can, I think.
K:
We told you months ago that the standoff missiles are the things the
Soviets are worried about.
C:
That's right and that's the thing I want to concentrate on, not this
damn thing.
K:
I frankly don't know all that much about it.
C:
OK, you and I, Henry, and I'm sure we're saying the same damn thing
because the standoff cruise missile is important to you, it's important
to me, the Russians are worried about it, we need that technology.
What I want to do is keep the technology and move to the standoff missile
and move away from this thing that is primarily an adjunct to upgrade
the B-52. That's all it is.
K:
Yeh, but then the end result will be to play into the hands of those who
want to abolish the B-52's faster. You know it's awfully hard for me
to make a quick judgment. I'd like to get my systems analyzt guy to
at least give me his view.
C:
OH yeh. To go through that kind of a process which is really the thing
that our group has been doing for the last 3 or 4 days.
K:
Yeh, but then let me have a paper. You know, you hit me with this
without any advance warning, without giving me a chance to think about
it. I can't make a reasonable judgment.
C:
Well, that's probably right.
K:
Can I call you tomorrow?
C:
Oh sure.
K:
I'll call you tomorrow.
C:
All right, that'll be good, I⁸11 wait until I hear from you tomorrow.
K:
Good.
C:
OK, Henry, thank you.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Flanigan/Kissinger
2"25 p.m. - 6/28/73
K:
Hello.
F:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Hello, Pete.
F:
You will recall the two things we wanted to discuss. One prior to your
Jobert meeting.
K:
Yeh, I've got yourmemo and I'll take all these issues up.
F:
The ;only one that you have to initiate and it is very important, is 24-6.
And in that issue they alone stood against us.
K:
I understand.
F:
Right. With regard to the mandate, the Irish were the ones who were
most, I regeret to say, most obstreperous with regard to agricul ture,
but they were doing it at the behalf, we believe, and I talked to
d'Avignon who happened to be here and who is head of the drafting
committee at the behest of the French. I don't know that - the mandate
is not an impossible document. We can live with it though it's a little
difficult, but the 24-6 Henry, we do have an opportunity to do something
about this week. We can change it. If we get no progress it's going to
make our trade bill which in the last couple of days has gone downhill
even more difficult.
K:
OK, I will stress this.
F:
Good. The second issue is most favored nation. We are now in the
markup period with Ways and Means and expect shortly, though it
may not now be until the 9th to get to the MFN section. You will recall
that I gave you some language, both that we had already given to the
Committee
K:
Yes, I remember it very well.
F:
And some more stringent language that we hope we can get okayed by
the Soviets so we'd have a little fallback position. You'll further recall
K:
Yeh, what's the question?
F:
Do the Soviets agree?
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2
K:
Well, they take the position that they don't want to comment on our
uh.
The second one I didn't particularly like. That was a little
stringent.
F:
All right.
K:
Now what was the essence again of both of them?
F:
The essence was that
K:
Both of them left the determination to the President.
F:
Both left the determination to the President but both put the onus on
the direction to the President that if they reinstituted any discrimination
by virtue of, education, race, color or creed or country of destination
that he would at that point withdraw MFN. So he could go ahead now
and as long as they didn't start collecting the tax again that there would
be no withdrawal. But if they were to reinstitute the tax, then he would
be obliged to remove MFN.
K:
Yeh.
F:
Incidentally as I told you then, in another meeting I tried the approach
on Alkimof and he seemed to think that he didn't want to give it any
kind of Russian blessing, but he seemed to say they don't like any of
the problem, but they didn't find this
K:
Why don't you run it past Dobrynin this afternoon.
F:
I will run it past Dobrynin.
K:
Call him up and tell him I asked you to call and I will call him from here.
F:
Before I call or after. You want to call now?
K:
I'll call now.
F:
I'll call him in a half an hour.
Thank you Henry.
K:
Thank you.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Dobrynin/Kissinger
2:35 p.m. - 6/28/73
K:
Hello.
D:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Anatol, how are you?
D:
As you know I am missing you here.
K:
I bet.
D:
(Laughs) For two days I can't really speak with you and I feel a little
bit uneasy. Today I don't know whether Colonel Kennedy mentioned
to you, I called him and he will call you or just have a chance to discuss
with you, our
promised your interview with his
.
K:
Oh, good.
D:
So it's a good interview.
K:
Good. I'm delighted. Anatol, I told Peter Flanigan - he has two
amendments to the MFN legislation and I asked him to check them
with you - you know you can't give your - but just to see whether
they' re something you could live with. And he will call you within half
an hour. I mean the practical consequence is to give us the right to
extend MFN.
D:
Yeh, I understand.
OK, he will call me.
K:
He will call you.
D:
When you will be back Henry?
K:
Oh, another 10 days.
D:
Oh, come on, it's too long.
K:
(Laughs)
D:
Really - ok. Have a little bit rest. I see that now the French Minister
is there. I thought that they don't know what about our agreement. Now
he will be with you, he will spill everything.'
K:
What agreement?
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2
D:
You remember when our two bosses
K:
Yeh, we never got your - Brezhnev was going to let me know within
24 hours.
D:
Last time it was 28 hours.
K:
I never got it, did I?
D:
It's now 48 hours. It arrived only yesterday.
K:
Oh, I see.
D:
Because he was in France. I am counting 28 hours because it was 24
and then duri ng the last night it was agreed on 48. So I am counting
by the end of tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. This is I am sure
of. He will be today or tomorrow.
K:
Tomorrow.
D:
So you have to tell me then he because you will have first knowledge
already.
K:
I will keep in touch with you.
D:
OK.
What I receive, I'm sure I will receive. Maybe I will call you
then from Kennedy's place. Do they have a direct line.
K:
Yes, we have a direct line. Come over to Kennedy's place.
D:
I could come over there and then talk with you whenever I receive, all right
K:
Exactly.
D:
I think it will be better.
K:
Much better.
D:
OK, Henry. Nice to talk with you.
K:
Nice to talk to you. Bye.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Laird/Kissinger
6/28/73 - Evening from his Residence
K:
Hello.
L:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Mel, how are you?
Going to screw things up here now.
L:
What happened?
K:
I needed your advice, Mel.
L:
Yeh.
K:
Jack Javits - I called Javits at the request of Timmons about that Senate
Foreign Relations Committee. Now he says what they're considering
is a cutoff of everything on August 15th. Not just Cambodia.
L:
Well hell, they already passed it out of the Senate cutting out everything
immediately - out of the Senate Appropriations Committee today.
K:
He says what they' re willing to take is a cutoff that names Cambodia
if we give them oral assurances that we won't do anything else, but
you know they'll leak that immediately.
L:
Well, I wouldn't - you don't want to do that. I think we can save the
House vote. You know what the vote was on August 1, don't you?
K:
August 1 is no good to us.
L:
Yeh, but you don't know what the vote was in Committee?
K:
No.
L:
17
-
14.
Markeim defeated the August 1 - 17 - 14. Then they went on
and voted 17 - 14 for the Rhoades Amendment which was the 15th of August.
K:
How about September 1st?
L:
They did not have the votes on that.
K:
You know, it's almost beyond my comprehension Mel, they're going to
throw everything down the drain for nothing. If somebody can explain
to me what this argument is about, I could understand last year's arguments
better than this years.
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2
L:
I could too, Henry. But they really are - you know actually I wish you
would - it's just amazing up there now, Henry.
K:
Look, you know how much confidence I have in your judgment, Mel,
I'm not questioning it.
L:
You know Jerry - I got two phone calls on this airplane from Jerry
Ford on the way out here.
K:
Really.
L:
Wanting me to come back immediately. Now maybe I should go back.
Now he's setting up a meeting where I'm going to talk to the House
Republicans at 8 o'clock tomorrow morning.
K:
How can you do it? Oh, from here.
L:
By phone in a conference call where they can ask me questions on it.
He says he can't pass August 15 if I don't do this.
K:
But that's August 15th only for Cambodia?
L:
Right. And that's the way it should go to the Senate and the House will
stand firm on that Henry.
K:
OK, then I'll tell Javits we can't make any deals.
L:
Yeh, I think that you should stay with the House language. Don't give
up anymore. I think we've gone as far as we can.
K:
Mel we've gone further than we can afford.
L:
And the President has to say that he may come back to the Congress
asking for a further authority when he signs this.
K:
Can't he let it become law without his signature?
L:
I'm not sure what it is with the recess.
K:
Yeh.
L:
They're going to put this on the Continuing Resolution too, I think.
K:
I'd rather not have him sign it at all.
L:
I think he may have to, I haven't looked at the legal.
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K:
We'll have to look at it, but you know this is one of the most vindictive,
cheap actions that I've seen the Congress take. And it's not just in
Cambodia, it's going to hurt us murderously with the Chinese because
if they think that the Congress can do these things to us in Cambodia,
what are they going to do to us elsewhere.
L:
The only problem is now, Henry, right now we've got no authority.
We've got to get some authority.
K:
That's right. Yeh. (Laughs) A few more memos out of the White House
and we won't have any left.
L:
God, I wish people would keep cool on that thing for a while.
K:
Well, did you know that they were sending out that memo?
L:
I knew that they were told to start attacking.
K:
Oh, it's just too god damn stupid. You don't attack when Dean is on the
stand.
L:
I understand that, Henry. Christ, I told that to A1, I said''Al, you're
making a mistake. 'Keep cool. "
K:
That's right. I would have left this week to him. We shouldn't attack
until all this testimony is out.
L:
Right and then you can have a press conference and do something but
wait 'til you're through with this thing.
K:
That's what I think. That just gives some ammunition to hit us.
L:
Boy, I tell you this is kind of a - we got to get together once in a while,
Henry. This gets to be kind of a weird operation as far as I'm concerned.
K:
Look, Mel, you and Al and I when we're in the same town must get
together. This is absurd. It's absurd if we let them play this game
again we're going to have the same bloody nightmares as before. As I
understand it, Haig refused it and then he went through Ziegler - that
cannot be. I mean I agree with you, Mel, when I look at this from the
point of view of foreign policy, you know and I know that we're living
off fat.
L:
Yeh, I understand.
K:
And as soon as other countries recognize how little authority there is
left here we are just going to be in murderous difficulty. And we can't
afford these stupid mistakes anymore.
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4
L:
I called Haig, you know, about this. I guess I should have called the
President, but I understood that he was the one that was very much
concerned and wanted something done.
K:
Haig?
L:
The President.
K:
The President always wants something done and we got into this mess
because people reacted.
L:
You can't overeact all the time though, Henry.
K:
I couldn't agree more.
L:
OK.
K:
OK, Mel, look I will tell Javits then that we cannot go further than
August 15th on Cambodia.
L:
Yeh, tell him that we've gone along with the so-called Mayheim position
and you just can't back away from it now. All we said there is that
we wouldn't veto it and that the President would have to make a statement
that he might have to come back to the Congress for more authority.
K:
Is this what Bill said on the Hill or did he go further?
L:
No, that's what he told them. He said that it wouldn't be vetoed, but
if it was signed the President would have to say that he may have to
come back to ask for further authority.
K:
Because he certainly didn't sound very tough on television tonight.
L:
Well, I don't know about that - oh, you mean Bill Rogers. I was thinking
of Bill Timmons.
K:
No, Bill Rogers.
L:
Oh, Christ, did he say something on this tonight?
K:
Yeh, he said that Congress has it's view and we have our view and we'll
find a compromise inbetween.
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TELCON
General Haig/Mr. Kissinger
June 28, 1973
8:30 p.m.
GH:
Henry, I haven't talked to Timmons, so I got the latest word on this
thing- - the House Committee came out withthe second supplemental
with an agreed position XX that it would have 15 August
HK:
Yeh, I talked to Laird and he thinks we shouldn't yield anymore.
GH:
Okay, that's about what I think too and if they can get the second supple-
mental pre-report tomorrow then they may take the lead from that
It is a weak bill, you know, in that it says that there won't be any money
in this bill for Cambodia. Although there isn't any in it anyhow. It's
just phoney.
HK:
Okay, I'll go along with that and I'll call Javits and tell him no deals.
GH:
Right.
HK:
Okay, thank you Al.
GH:
Bye.
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/Senator Javits
June 28, 1973 8:40 p.m.
HK:
Hello, Jack. Jack we really can't go beyond, in good conscience,
the Mahon amendment and I just think that the Senate will we just
cannot go beyond it--
J:
The August 15 ban to Cambodia
HK:
That's right.
J:
I see.
HK:
And you will should consider what is being done to the whole foreign
policy by this, it is not-Indochina -is really a very subsidiary issue.
J:
Henry, I'm tip now and I keep --you know we keep working over the
papers and so one and I assure you--
HK:
If the Ehinese come to the cond usion that we have become irrelevant,
they'll turn sharp left. To try to get the Communists parties around
world away from the Russians. This then frees the Russians in Europe
and the middle East and we really in fact when I come back I'd like
to talk to you about how--what we can do to get some support for our
foreign policy in a way that we haven't been successful before.
J:
You mean wen you come back from San Clemente.
HK:
Yeh.
J:
Hanry, I'm leaving for Europe tomorrow night after this meeting.
I'll be gone only a day- .-incidentally that Evalyn Rothchull is getting
married- Evalyn is marrying in NY the daughter is a very
good friend of ours. So I'm going to be back Sunday for the Wedding.
HK:
No, I didn't know. Isn't that nice. I'll be coming back about the 8th.,
of July. Will you be in Washington?
J:
I'll be back here on the 9th and 10th.
K:
Let's have breakfast shortly afterwards. I'd really like your counsel
on what can be done.
J:
You're very kind and I will be more than glad to do it and in the meantime
I assure you I'll think this over most carefully.
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Page 2
K:
I know you will, and I appreciate the role you played at that foreign
Relations Committee--you asked some tough questions, but they
enabled me to bring out some good - -points which needed to be made.
J:
Henry, incidentally you should take a look at what I did on Face the
Nation on this Russian jury issue too.
K:
Right, I will get that.
J:
Very good. I'll see you shortly, and I'll worry over this.
K:
And all the best to you and Marion.
J:
Hm huh.
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger - William Buckley
June 29, 1973
9:10 a.m
K: Hello.
B: Hi, Doc.
K: Hi, Bill.
B: How are you my friend?
K: OK, Bill.
B: I'm imagine you're suffering a little bit. I'm sorry for you.
K: Well, it's not one of the more glorious moments in American history.
B: No, no, it sure isn't. From a hundred points of view.
K: But, I think the reaction of the opponents is even more revolting than
the tawdry behavior of my ex-colleagues.
B: Yeah, I wish it were easier for you to externalize that point.
K: You know, to dismantle the country
because of what was a collection
of petty crimes, unworthy, and everything else, but still this is a dramatic
dismantling of our foreign policy, of our Indochina policy
they know damn
well we are in the process of negotiating the end of Cambodia.
B: That to me is truly shameful. And the remarkable thing is the total
collaspe of the Senate. It is absolutely corrupt. And
K: And if this thing comes apart now we're going to have the Chinese move
far left to steal the Communist parties. We'll have a belicose Soviet policy
and no public opinion to deal with it.
B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish certain things which aren't easy to say over
the phone
but I wish the guy in charge had a better means of communicating
this kind of thing to the Amer. people but unfortunately there is
in our recent history a self-serving communication that make it kind of
difficult for people to feel that this is not an aggression.
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TELCON
K: I know. But you know, history is going to have a hell of a time explaining
how it all happened.
B: X Yeah, I know.
K: And, for what.
What I called you about yesterday was a relative ly
minor thing which just shows you how attentatively I read the National Review.
Mentioning Halperin, it said that he is suing me for illegal wire tapping him
and that he can stand to gain 75 thousand dollars
B: I was surprised by that.
K: First of all, the wiretapping was perfectly legal when it was done and
it was authorized by the Attorney General, recommended by the Director
of the FBI and approved by the President. And in the fourth month in a
law and order Administration it wouldn't occur to anyone that this could
be illegal.
B: Well, did you lawyers tell you that you can get the case thrown out of
court?
K: Yes.
B: I will call down and find out what in the hell George will
K: But they printed it as if the illegality was a fact, that he is suing me for
illegally wiretapping him what he is suing me for, but process was declared
illegal only in 1972
B: After the fact.
K: Yeah, even then it wasn't applied to National Security things.
B: Yeah, right.
K: Secondly, I can prove that what your people didn't know was that I didn't
order the wiretapping of Haþerin- that this was done on his own by J. Edgar
Hoover because he had evidence that the man was a security risk.
B: Well, have you answered yet?
K: No, I will not answer.
B: But you have to in the court.
K: Well, the Justice Dept. believes it can get it dismissed on motion.
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3
B: Oh, I see, as a matter of law.
K: Yeah, before it even gets to court.
B: I'll get that straightened out, Doc.
K: OK. It isn't one of the most major problems.
B: No, No, but I will straighten it out. I was not on duty last week and
was rather surprised when I read it myself. Tell me this
I was
terribly sorry to miss your 50th birthday party.
K: Well, I would have loved to have seen you.
B: But, I was not present for different reasons other than those of Joe
Kraft. When will I see you again? Soon, I hope.
K: I'll be back in about 10 days. I'd bostx love to see you. Maybe you
could come down that we ek.
B: Good, I'll be down there and hold your hand.
K: Well, we ought to discuss what to do about the country.
B: You're god damn right. It couldn't have happened to a nicer country.
K: You know, really, when you think of the reserves of dedication in this
country
it's really cruel.
B: Yeah, I know.
K: OK.
B: Thanks, Henry.
K: Bye.
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger - General Haig
June 29, 1973
9:17 a. m.
K: Hello?
H: Yeah, Henry. Rogers is on the golf course SO he hasn't done any
mischief yet but I got Elliott and I told him that this has got to be turned
off. And he will be back in touch with us. It goes counter to discussions
held with the Soviets and would like complicity in double dealings to
launch something now before we have their comments on
with
K: Of course this will just trigger him into a talkless Gromyko. Well,
he's got to go. No matter what else happens.
H: Yeah, well, anyway, he got the message and he will turn it off.
K: Yeah. OK, fine.
H: Bye.
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger - Len Garment
June 29, 1973
9:18 a. m.
K: Hello?
G: Henry, how are you?
K: OK.
G? Two things. Dinitz called last night and wanted. he had be receiving
a number of representations from the community here and from back
home and wondered whether it would be desirable to sit down with you.
He will not be here the week that you are back. I told him I would speak
with you.
K: Does he want to come out here?
G: Well, he wants to talk about the specific issues. Of the
K: Yeah, but where can he sit down with me?
G: The question is whether it is necessary at this point. I think
I
said I would chat with you and perhaps I could, in the interim, before
you returned, sit down with a couple of the leaders, or in any event,
or at least give an assurance when you are back here that you will chat
with them, informally.
K: Right, that's correct.
G: Why don't I tell him that and say that he should go away comfortable
in the assurance that the matter is
that it is being dealt with in a
realistic and sensible fashion. And is not being ignored. Is that a fair
statement?
K: That's a correct statement.
G: And that I can tell him and Jack Steim that when you are back that I
will arrange a private meeting for three or four of them and yourself.
K: Right. But I would like to have a chance to talk to Dobrynin first.
G: All right.
K: I mean, don't do it the first day back.
G: But, sometime within the first few days that you are back.
And I'll tell Dinitz that that will be done and xthat when he's back from
Nassau that the two of you can sit down then.
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K: OK.
2
G: Secondly, I assume
well, that the only question I had. How are
we doing out there? We're not doing too well back here.
K: Well, we're not doing too well out here either in terms of Cambodia
and so forth which is doing us unbelievable damage. This is going to
wreck us with the Chinese.
G: The atmosphere is very bad on Watergate.
K: It is?
G: And I don't know
K: Well, why did we put out that statement the other day?
G: It's a long and complicated story. One of those things that happen
when there is not good working morale and no real line of command.
K: It wasn't a very well thought thing.
anyway to put it out while the
guy is one the stand is nuts.
G: It wasn't put out. It was delivered in a rather haphazard fashion by
Fred Bazardt without appropriate
K: But, knowing these guys
G: Well, I was not. this has become an exercise in super-secrecy and
it is very complicated. I'll talk to you about this when we are together.
There is no point in burdening you with it.
K: No, No.
&. More problems of the same. People who are being secretive when they
don't need to be. And so there are bungles
And the soviets have to be
handled with the most enormous sophistication so far as public opinion is
concerned and it is not available. And we're having more of the Colson
madness so that the atmosphere is getting rancid once again. It can be
very hurtful. That plus all the other head-knocking. On the more conventional
features.
K: You think we're going to make it?
G: Well, I think we could if there were better communication among ourselves.
It's going to be a very difficult time. When are you all coming back?
K: It depends on the Cambodia thing.
G: You may come back sooner?
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3
K: Yeah.
G: Call the Congress back into session.
K; Right.
G: Well, all right, I just wanted to check one point with you.
K: Right, Len, you can go ahead with it.
G: Then we'll go ahead on that basis.
K: Right.
G: Bye bye.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Taft Schreiber/Kissinger
3:17 p.m. - 6/29/73
K:
Hello.
S:
Henry, Taft.
K:
Taft, A how are you? I have still got that Foreign Minister here with
mê. He's not in the room now but I've invited Danny Kaye now.
S:
He's been prompted.
K:
Oh, he has.
S:
He's been told what we need, you understand. As the host it's not
easy and also Herb told him we needed him for next Friday and he's
happy to do it. And then he said look, do you think Dr. Kissinger
would think it would be smart if I threw a cookout for them at my
house. I said, well, when you see Henry Friday you discuss it with
him. Now the other reason I wanted to call you was to be sure that
if you wanted any studio red carpet stuff - you wanted to send him
here to get him off your back for a couple days - or the French - all
you have to do is to tell Herb. And Herb will give it the same treat-
ment we gave Dobrynin. You don't have to be here.
K:
But you can't do it on Saturday, can you?
S:
Yeh, absolutely.
K:
You can do it on Saturday.
S:
Yeh, we don't have the stages open but we have enough action going
on that seeing the studio will be just as exciting.
K:
Oh, good. Well, let me check with them.
S:
That's right. So I didn't want to bother you because I'm leaving, but
I just felt that you ought to know, that you could say "Look, I'll take
care of everything." And the Chinese may like it and how much hand
holding can you do?
K:
Now, tell me, do I have to have Danny Kaye. I've broken it up into
3 tables. It just didn't seem to me safe enough to have one - you
know you need the right chemical combination for that. But do I
have Danny at the same table as the Foreign Minister?
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2
S:
I don't think so. I don't think so.
I think you should put those that
you think are the most important.
I'll tell you if you're trying to
make the Foreign Minister have fun and enjoy himself, I'd put him
at the table 'cause he'll have everybody laughing.
K:
Yeh, I'll have him there.
S:
Because he's really the Chinese guy
K:
Oh, I'm crazy about Danny.
S:
And we told him that diplomatic affairs are very difficult for you and
that you especially needed help. Then if he feels he's doing a diplomatic
mission he'll go overboard.
K:
Good.
S:
So you decide and Steinberg is available for whatever you want. He'll
be by tonight sometime to just look in and see everything is all right.
And everything is all set.
K:
Well, you're terrific, Taft. I'm sorry you can't be there.
S:
I am too, Henry, but have a wonderful time. One thing I am concerned
about - I heard more testimony today and I feel so badly for the President
for the things - the hearsay - the kind of things that they're saying and
K:
It's unbelieveable !
S:
It's unbelieveable and I just wish he'd - I hope he keeps his courage
up because the Democrats are having a field day. They're setting the
stage for an attempt to impeach.
K:
That's one of the filthiest things that I've ever seen.
S:
Yeh, it's immoral. It's immoral and I wanted you to know that we call
you know 20 of us everyday - and we sense how devious this is, how
unfair to a great man, to a great Administration.
K:
Do you think Kalmbach will be all right?
S:
Well, I'm worried about it but although yesterday Dean started to crack.
He finally admitted. You see he had all along said that the money was
given for silence; that Herb knew it; he told him. Yesterday under hard
examination by Gurney he admitted that maybe silence was never mentioned.
Now if silence was mentioned and Herb raised the money for that, that's
a felony. If it was not mentioned it was just for bail and for sustenance,
that's not a felony.
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K:
Yeh.
S:
So but Herb did tell me the story - as he related it there was never
any silence because I asked him. I said, "Herb was silence or
they were to shut up or anything ever mentioned. 11 He said,
"They
couldn't. Dean couldn't say that to me. I'd have kicked him in the
head. That's a felony.' "
K:
And Kalmbach is after all an experienced guy.
S:
Yes a very experienced guy. And I think he has a credibility and I
think when he gets on this. Also has already said the President,
as far as he knew, never knew about this. But this looks like a little
man who is trying to glory in the spotlight.
K:
That's right.
S:
And I'm just saying this so if the President wonders what his friends
are thinking, we haven't been convinced of a damn thing except that
he is being unfairly attacked.
K:
You're great.
S:
OK, Henry, I⁸ll talk to you when I get back from Europe.
K:
When will that be.
S:
I'll be in New York on the 14th and 15th and16th of July.
K:
Give me a call.
S:
I'll call you fromthere.
K:
Terrific. And many thanks for everything.
S:
OK.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
George Sherman/Kissinger
4:22 p.m. - 6/29/73
K:
Hello.
S:
Dr. Kissinger. I wondered did you see this item on the wire today
from Hanoi about (They were cut off at this point and the call was
replaced
K:
Hello.
S:
I'm not being lucky today.
K:
Well, I just hung up when you mentioned Hanoi. When you want to
talk to me about enemies I don't want to listen to you.
S:
You have your own enemies list, do you?
K:
You should see - the trouble is about a third of these enemies are
personal friends of mine and I'm in their houses.
S:
Are you getting the message?
K:
Where does that leave me?
S:
Exactly. I'm waiting for the real list to come out. Listen, Henry
K:
All I want you to know Sherman is be careful because I may put you on
a list. There are some lists around that haven't surfaced yet.
S:
That's the greatest status symbol going in Washington you realize.
Mary McGrory's floating on a cloud.
K:
I didn't ever think Mary McGrory was an enemy. (Laughs) She's
even on my enemy list.
S:
Oh, your enemy list. Anyway this is a story from the Argente French
Press which for the first time says that Sihanouk and Company or they
say Drunc of Sihanouk is willing to negotiate on a coalition government
including not Lon Nol but neutralists.
K:
George, I can't go into details but I've been trying to tell you and anyone
who would listen for a month, that we think there is a chance if Congress
doesn't now knock all the props out from under us.
S:
In other words, you put some store in this report?
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2
K:
Yes.
S:
It says Pen Nute (sp. ?) is going to go to Phnom Penh. Is that in
accord with anything you know?
K:
That I do know about. That seems unlikely to me.
S:
And also it s pointed out that Sihanouk is in Rumania, isn't he?
K:
He's on the way back soon I know.
S:
I mean wouldn't it be rather unusual for this thing to surface while
he's away from the area, or not? I mean people I talk to are reading
a lot of sinister things into this thing since Hanoi and the insurgents
went over to get this thing out before Sihanouk gets back.
K:
I do not know that Pen Nute is going to Phnom Penh and I don't believe
that.
S:
Well, can you give me any idea where we stand on this thing. I want
to write something for Sunday on it.
K:
It's essentially what I told you last Monday. We think we have the
makings of a negotiation. I don't want to give you all the components
but I gave you the basic factors.
S:
I gathered from what you said and also what you said in the briefing
that these major components are Moscow, Peking and Washington.
K:
And Hanoi.
S:
And Hanoi. Well, now the other thing is I gathered from coming home
on the radio that all the major airports - the four major airports in
China have been closed. Do you know anything about that?
K:
No, that I haven't heard.
S:
I hadn't heard it either and it was on Lowell Thomas.
K:
Does that make it true?
S:
(Laughs) But anyway you hadn't heard anything about it?
K:
No.
S:
Maybe they're closing them because they heard you're going to come.
K:
They heard I was going to come from you. I mean you people misunderstood
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3
what I said. There is no present plan for me to come. The only
thing is I can't deny that as categorically as the Chou visit just
based on my record. There is no current date fixed.
S:
Right, but I was told by someone last night in contact with the Chinese
that it was likely to be in early August rather than July. Now do you
mean you haven't discussed dates with them at all?
K:
We don't have any precise discussions.
S:
But would it be fair to assume your trip to Peking would be tied in
with this Cambodian thing if you went.
K:
Well, it's a topic we have always discussed.
S:
How'd the thing with the French go today?
K:
How can anyone resist when they meet me - personally agree to anything.
No, really George, it went the way threxyx we planned. You know I'm
getting boring on the subject. What we have to do now is to get an
understanding in principle on some details on substance with the French
and we had apreliminary very substantive talk.
S:
You figure the French are really the whole - I mean if you can get
something worked out with the French the rest will just fall in line?
K:
Well, the rest seem to agree substantially. But I'm seeing the NATO
Council tomorrow?
S:
Is the President going to see them as well?
K:
Yes.
S:
Ok, then just one other thing on this Cambodian thing, Henry. I talked
to the Ambassador here and he seemed to be suggesting that youre
rapidly reaching a point where the insurgents say that they will negotiate
but they won't stand for Lon Nol.
K:
Who said that?
S:
The Ambassador.
K:
Which Ambassador?
S:
Cambodian Ambassador here in Washington. That you see it appears
that their side, the insurgents or Sihanouk anyway, are saying we are
willing to negotiate a coalition government but we won't stand still
to have Lon Nol in the thing. Whereas Phnom Penh is saying that we
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won't have anything to do with Sihanouk. Is that the trend of the
negotiation?
K:
I can't go into the details.
S:
But I mean would that be a fair statement of the positions at the moment?
Just simply put.
K:
I think that's - that has some of the elements but I really don't want
to go into it.
S:
In other words, it's a question of trying to neutralize personalities.
K:
Right.
S:
OK. Good. I hope you're having a good time.
K:
I'm having a good time. I Tell you some of your friends are missing you.
S:
I would love to have heard the words that flew around.
K:
Among your friends?
S:
Right.
K:
I mean the Hollywood contingent. I'm going to bring them to my press
conferences at the White House from now on.
You, I've seen you
polite one time out of ten, but I've never seen Lisagor polite.
S:
You know Peter has his moments.
K:
Never with White House officials.
S:
You know all you have to do is call him cynical and it sets him back
for three days.
K:
Actually in all seriousness I admire him. He has great integrity and
that sort of cynicism no one can object to and it's never personal.
S:
I agree with you. I have tremendous admiration for him because insofar
as what the press should stand for - I think he stands for.
K:
There's no question. He's sometimes painful but he isn't there to please
us. He's never unfair.
S:
OK. Good talking to you.
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TELCON
Amb. Khan/Mr. Kissinger
6/30/73 1:30 p.m.
HK:
How are you?
AK:
Fine, how are you?
HK:
Okay.
AK:
There are two things that I wanted you to look into please.
In connection with the visit of President Bhutto here,
I received a request from President Bhutto day béfore yesterday
saying that the time provided for the talks between the two
President is only on the day of the arrival for about 1 and 1/2
hour and President Bhutto felt that there would be quite a lot
left over which may not be covered in this and he requested that
some time also be set aside on the next day of the visit.
HK:
We'll do our best. I'll have to check with the President but I'm
pretty sure we can do it.
AK:
Thank you very much and the other thing was that when the program
was being discussed I had made a request on behalf of my President
for President Nixon to accept a return invitation for dinner, but I
was told that this was not possible, in the meantime I have again
received a reminder if this matter could be reviewed.
HK:
I think that's going to be very difficult because if we do it, then he'd
have to do it all the time.
AK:
Well could you have a second look at it.
H:
Yes.
AK:
Then are you expected back here about the 9th?
HK:
Yes, I'm back on the 8th, why don't you and I meet on the 9th and
review the whole thing.
AK:
I would be very grateful if you could give me time on the 9th
HK:
Good let's do that.
AK:
And would you kindly look at the setting of additional time for talks
on the next day?
HK:
Right, you can count on it.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Page 2
AK:
We have already made the request through protocol and they must
have sent it to the WH and will be coming up for consideration.
HK:
Right. Nice to talk to you.
AD:
Thank you.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
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"ocrText": "DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]\nDOCUMENT\nDOCUMENT\nNUMBER\nTYPE\nSUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS\nDATE\nRESTRICTION\n1\nTelcon\nHAK maw\n- 2pp\n6/27/93\nD\n2\nTelcon\nHAK/ Dr. Schlesings\n- 2pys\n6/27/73\nB\nMANDATORY REVIEW REQUEST NLN 08-47/12370\nDECLASSIFIED Itr. 11- 20-2013\nFILE GROUP TITLE\nBOX NUMBER\nHAK Telephone Convertions\n20\nFOLDER TITLE\n1973\n25-30 June 9\nRESTRICTION CODES\nA. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.\nE. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or\nB. National security classified information.\nfinancial information.\nC. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's\nF. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law\nrights.\nenforcement purposes.\nD. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy\nG. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.\nor a libel of a living person.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library and returned non-historical material.\nDECLASSIFIED\nNATIONAL pursuant No Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nNA 14021 (4-85)\nDOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]\nDOCUMENT\nDOCUMENT\nNUMBER\nTYPE\nSUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS\nDATE\nRESTRICTION\nI\nTelcon\nHAKI maw\n- - 2py\n6/27/93\nD\n2\nTelcon\nHAK/ Dr. Schlesings\n- 2pys\n6/27/73\nB\nFILE GROUP TITLE\nBOX NUMBER\nHAK Telephone Convertions\n20\nFOLDER TITLE\n1973\n25-30 June\n9\nRESTRICTION CODES\nA. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.\nE. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or\nB. National security classified information.\nfinancial information.\nC. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's\nF. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law\nrights.\nenforcement purposes.\nD. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy\nG. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.\nor a libel of a living person.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library and returned non-historical material.\nDECLASSIFIED\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nNA 14021 (4-85)\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nCong. Patman/Kissinger\n8:40 a. m. - 6/25/73\nK:\nHello.\nP:\nThis is Wright Patman, Mr. Kissinger.\nK:\nHow are you?\nP:\nAll right, I hope you are.\nK:\nYes, I'm fine. I'm taking the liberty of calling you which - I normally\nnever call members of Congress on votes.\nP:\nWell I'm glad to talk to you.\nK:\nBut I'm so concerned on this vote on Cambodia today that I wanted to\ntake this opportunity to tell you that I really believe that if we could\nstay with the House version, that anyone who has voted for it will, in\na matter of weeks, see that we are working on producing a solution\nthere and in any event, I can tell you that personally thought, it\nshouldn't be made public, that if\nP:\nI won't make it public. I've voted with the President on most of your\nwar measures.\nK:\nI know you have. That if what we are trying to do doesn't work by\nSeptember we'll in any event stop the bombing.\nP:\nI'm sympathetic, I'll do my very best to carry out your suggestion.\nK:\nBut we're not asking for a blank check here, it's a complicated\ndiplomacy with Brezhnev, Chou En-lai and a few others involved.\nP:\nYes, sir. Well, I have great confidence in you Mr. Kissinger.\nK:\nWell, you've been a great patriot and I appreciate this very much.\nP:\nYes, sir. Thank you sir for calling.\nK:\nNice to talk to you.\nP:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n10:30 a. m. - 6/25/73\nK:\nHello.\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nAnatol, how are you?\nD:\nGood morning. I just receive a telegram from Brezhnev from his\nplane addressed to the President.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nI have just within 30 minutes dictated to Colonel Kennedy so he has\na text but if you don't mind I could read it now but he put it down.\nK:\nPlease.\nD:\n(Reads) \"His Excellency Richard M. Nixon, President of the United\nStates of America.\n\"Leaving the territory of the United States of América, I\nexpress to you, Mr. President, to the government and to the\npeople of the United States my sincere gratitude for the warm\nwelcome and hospitality which were accorded during our visit\nand for the constructive spirit of our fruitful negotiations. I\nam confident that the work we did together over the last few days\nwill well serve the interests of the peoples of our two countries\nand become a new important contribution to the stronger universal\npeace.\n\"My very best wishes to you, Mr. President, to the members\nof your government and all the American people.\nL. Brezhnev\nAboard IL-62' \"\nAnd without this text he sends his personal best wishes to you,\nMr. Kissinger or Dr. Kissinger as he put it,\nK:\nThank you very much and I can tell you I have talked to the President\nthis morning and he feels very warmly about this week and I have just\ngiven a press conference in which I summed it up in very positive terms.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nD:\nWell, I think the journey was really a good one and was with good\nresults.\nK:\nI think it can be said that we probably had a historic meeting.\nD:\nYes, I agree with you, Henry.\nK:\nNow on that agricultural thing, Anatol.\nD:\nI already sent to Kennedy.\nK:\nGood. Now what I will do is I will get it initialed\nD:\nHe already initial.\nK:\nNo, no, the President's - didn't you want it initialed from the\nPresident too?\nD:\nYeh. Yeh.\nK:\nI will get the President to initial his reply.\nD:\nYes, exactly - only his reply with two additions you propose yesterday.\nK:\nExactly. And yours is also changed?\nD:\nNo, ours really as it is because I couldn't retype it, but when it will\nbe signed we are prepared to type it as you put it.\nK:\nOK.\nD:\nYou understand because I already have the Russian text which was\nyou have it exactly and I didn't want to retype it this way - he just\ninitial but when it is signed we will include yours so we are quite\nprepared to receive your letters or initials where your phrase is\nalready there.\nK:\nOK, fine, then I think that the best thing would be if you initialed\nalso our copy.\nD:\nThat's all right with me. But then in this case I will initial because\nhe's not here.\nK:\nOf course that's fine.\nD:\nThat's all right with me.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nK:\nWe trust you more than you trust me.\nD:\n(Laughs)\nK:\nBut the only thing is now we have one minor problem, We have no\nplane coming back today.\nD:\nWhen it could be delivered here tomorrow? When?\nK:\nWell I think before the evening, but what we can do is we have an\nLDX machine so it will be a copy but it will have the President's\ninitial on it.\nD:\nOK, will be fine.\nK:\nGood, you will have it by the end of the day.\nD:\nYes, this will be quite enough. OK.\nK:\nGood, thank you.\nD:\nAnd thank you very much Herr y, once again.\nK:\nWell, you and I did good work.\nD:\nYes, and my personal thanks to the President, real ly. Please tell\nhim.\nK:\nYou can count on it.\nD:\nThank you Henry very much and now have a little bit rest.\nK:\nThank you.\nD:\nBye bye.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nMr. Kissinger/Secretary Shultz\n12:30 p.m. 6/25/73\nHK:\nHello George, two quick things.\nOne the President wanted me to make sure, which I'm sure requires--\nwhich I'm sure isn't necessary that these letters we discussed yesterday\nbe kept secret until we make them formal.\nGS:\nOkay, well I haven't discussed them with anyone.\nHK:\nGood. And we'll just proceed as I mentioned yesterday. We won't\nsign them --we'll just initial them which freezes the text.\nGS:\nI understand that Butz has given a memorandum to you.\nidentical\nHK:\nRight, which is idential/with yours and I talked with Butz afterward-.\nIt was essentially what you said.\nGS:\nRight.\nHK:\nAnd I talked to him after we talked and he fully supported it.\nSecond, could we have if their is a Voelker committee on international\nmonetary things, could Chuck Cooper sit in on that?\nGS:\nThere is something called the Voelker group in which he can certainly\nsit in--\nHK:\nI mean the Voelker group\nGS:\nAnd that is a staff group who are working on papers and so forth.\nHK:\nIf he could--\nGS:\nWhenever when it comes to things that are important, then we assemble\na different kind of groups, and I just do that personally- Voelker is sort of\nour staff secretary,\nHK:\nYeh, well that's different. I'm talking about the staff group--\nGS:\nI have no objection to it.\nHK:\nGood. I'd appreciate that. Many thanks.\nGS\"\nOkay. I signed today a memorandum for the President which will wind\nup with you out there I presume having to do with the IDA and Asian\nDevelopment Bank\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nHK:\nOh yes.\nGS:\nOn various conditions under the new\nand so on - - these I have, but\nbefore I would sign the memo I wanted to know whether or not it had been\ncleared with NSC. I had been told he it had been cleared with your staff\nHK:\nI think I know the substance of it-- -\nGS:\nSo you'll get it and then you can see whether you agree with it.\nHK:\nGood. If I have no problem I'll just send it into the President.\nGS:\nOkay. Thank you Henry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nJerry Warren/Kissinger\n6/25/73 - 5:30 p.m.\nK:\nHello.\nW:\nHello. It's Jerry, Henry.\nK:\nYes, Jerry.\nW:\nI thought that went very well this morning.\nK:\nYeh, I thought it was a good mood. I don't know how much they'll\ncover given the day's events.\nW:\nI think they'll get it in. Now on your next briefing, Ron and I talked\nabout it and Ron is up to his ears in Watergate as you can imagine.\nWhat would you think about tomorrow morning in an informal setting,\ncoffee and juice, rolls and things like that. I understand you're busy\ntonight and I can understand that. We could set it up tonight but it's\nawfully short notice.\nK:\nYeh, no I can't do it.\nW:\nRight, but we would be happy to set it up tomorrow morning for some\ntime early in the morning like 8:30 or 9 o'clock.\nK:\nWhy not Wednesday?\nW:\nWednesday would be all right. We'll lose a lot of people like Murray\nMarder and Marvin Kalb and Stan Carter and Bob Keatley of the\nWall Street Journal, Steven Barbour of the London\nK:\nOh no, then let's do it tomorrow.\nW:\nI think if we did it tomorrow morning\nK:\nBut in what setting could we do it - on the record?\nW:\nI think you should. I really think it should be on the record because\nthat way there would be no possibility of misinterpretation and we\nK:\nBut what could I add - wouldn't it be better to wait for a day's news\nplay so that I see what additional comments there are.\nW:\nWe'll do that in the morning but they're all going to be writing analysis\nfor Wednesday morning's paper. Today they're writing the communique\nfor tomorrow's paper.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nYeh.\nW:\nWe could do this tomorrow morning after assessing how the spot\nnews played.\nK:\nBut if you say instead of - well, I just wonder if it should be later\nin the morning.\nW:\nIf we do it earlier then these people have all day - we have all day\nto work out your transcript to get it back to the important people people\nback in Washington. Not to everybody but to the important/back\nin Washington and have an embargo for Wednesday morning papers.\nK:\nAll right, let's do it 9 o'clock tomorrow.\nW:\nWould you like to do it at the San Clemente Inn. We can get a room\nthere?\nK:\nIt's up to you.\nW:\nOr we can do it here at Laguna.\nK:\nNo, I don't want to go all the way up there.\nW:\nAll right, why don't we do it at a room in the San Clemente Inn at\n9 o'clock.\nK:\nOK, and that's for everybody?\nW:\nThat's for everybody who's traveling with us; it's not for the locals,\nyou know. You'll have some Japanese in there and some French and\nsome Britishers.\nK:\nNo television?\nW:\nNo television. And no recorders - I mean no tape recorders.\nK:\nOK, but now the only thing I don't want to hear is that we're doing this\nto take the heat off Watergate.\nW:\nNo, as a matter of fact the reporters want it this way. It's not that you\nscheduled it this way - it's that the reporters want it this way.\nK:\nYeh, OK, fine. Look, what was that point that Dean made that Rockefeller\ntold me and I told the President and the President told him?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nW:\nI think that was the point he made, I wasn't listening exactly, but\nhe said that the information got to Rockefeller who got it back to\nKissinger.\nK:\nThat's total nonsense.\nW:\nSure it is. Our position on the whole thing is - right now Ron's\nposition is that we're not going to deny these things in piecemeal\nfashion. We're going to try to do it in an orderly fashion and pick\nour own proper forum at the appropriate time and not be panicked\nby this guy spilling a lot of things about a lot of different people.\nK:\nYeh. I haven't seen it; I mean I just saw bits and pieces of it.\nW:\nThat's all I saw too. I was on the phone most of the day.\nK:\nYeh, OK, good - 9 o'clock.\nW:\n9 o'clock at the San Clemente Inn and we will alert you to what room\nit is and have someone escort you.\nK:\nGood. Fine. Thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nJune 26, 1973\nMr. Kissinger - Hugh Morrow\n9:02 a.m.\nK: Hello?\nM: Hello, Henry.\nK: Hugh, how are you?\nM: OK.\nM I wanted to call you about this testimony yesterday referring to your\nannouncement.\nK: Right. Well, I have no recollection that Nelson ever said a thing like this\nto me and I'm planning to deny it.\nM: I think you are absolutely right.\nK: And I don't believe that Nelson ever talked to Hoover.\nM: I don't think he ever did either. The only thing that we might say is this:\nit makes no sense to us and in any event we have no information on it and\nno comment. The Governor is out of the state on vacation and not presently\navailable. Now, he should be calling in to Norm Hurd at some point.\nK: Where is he?\nM: Pardon?\nK: Where is the Governor?\nto\nM: I wish I knew. He' not going that one country that you objected to.\nThank god. But, he's somewhere in Europe, Henry, I just don't know where.\nWhen I talked to him Saturday he said he didn't know where he was going --\njust heading East.\nK: Well, Hugh, will you tell the Governor or get word to him that I'm not going\nto volunteer anything. But, that if the issue comes up, I plan to say that I\nhad no such vonversation with Gov. Rockefeller and I reported no such thing\nto the President.\nM: Very good, Henry. I'm sure the Gov. will say the same thing.\nK: Good.\nM: Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nJune 26, 1973\nMr. Kissinger - James Keat\n9:20 a. m.\nK: Hello?\nKt: Dr. Kissinger, Jim Keat of the Baltimore Sun.\nK: Yes, how are you?\nKt: Fine. I'm most intrigued by the lack of information about the Middle\nEast and I understand there are considerable constraints on what you can\nsay but I was just wondering if you could discuss whether you got any feeling\nthat there is any further give in the Soviet position as opposed to about\na year or six months ago. Is there any prospect of further movement with\ntheir cooperation.\nK: Well, we're talking on the deep background basis.\nI think everybody is constrained by their allies, but I think that probably\nthere is a willingness to undertake some reaxamination but I don't where it\nwilldaad for a little bit.\nKt: Now, you say, everybody is constrained by their allies, do you indicate\nby that that the Russians still consider the Egyptians their allies? What the\nnature\nK: Well, I think they have a major stake in the Arab world, if not formally\nby alliances. They have a stake in Iraq. They are concerned about their\nbasic position in the Arab world. Whether they are technically allies or not.\nKt: Uh huh. Well, does this leave them latitude to decide that a settlement\nin which there must be a good amoint of giving on both sides is in their\ninterest?\nK: Well, that is of course the big problem. Whether there is enough give\non both sides\nto permit this. And, that we will totally see in the next\nmonth.\nKt: Well, do you look for anything specific in the next few months?\nK: I think we'll have to have some more exchanges before we can be sure\nabout that.\nKt:; What about your reading of Brezhnev personally now, as opposed to May '72.\nK: Well, in May 1972 he was very anxious to show that it was a collective\nleadership, partly, perhaps to split the blame about seeing us after the bombing.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK: This time he made it very clear that he was in charge. When I first\nmet him in 1972 he followed his briefs more. I mean he was bound by\nbriefs he had in front of him. Now he speaks extemporaneously.\nKt: Now, does this reflect a greater confidence in his personal position or\na greater grasp of his material? Has he grown as someone who is dealing\nwith foreign policy?\nK: Has he grown?\nKt: I mean, a man can be less tied to a brief either because he feels he\nis the sole leader or because\nK: No, he is more confident.\nKt: How much does he depend on Alexandrov?\nK: No, Alexandrov wasn't much in the meetings here. I would have said\nhere he referred more to Gromyko, but there were many meetings where\nhe and the President and I met alone and there were a few where he and\nthe President met alone.\nKt: And\nK: Alexandrov to my recollection was not present at any meetings.\nKt: Now at any meetings, or at any of the plenaries.\nK: Well, he was present at two plenary meetings. But, now let run through\nthem. At the President's office, he wasn't present. At Camp Da vid, he was\npresent at one meeting but not at two others. And he wasn't present at either\nof the two long meetings at San Clemente. And he wasn't present at the\nairplane.\nKt: He wasn't?\nK: I mean, he was on the airplane.\nKt: But not:up in the compartment.\nK; Right.\nKt: Third and last. The guys who came here from Moscow were, I think\nvery strong in the belief that Brezhnev group really needed or wanted something\ngold plated on the trade subject to take home and it doesn't seem to me that\nhe got it, at least not publicly.\nK: Well, you know, I am struck, if I may be candid with you, by how the press\nhas a tendency to raise a certain expectation. Then when it doesn't happen\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nK: even though there wasn't any basis for it to begin with, they say there must\nhave been a disappointment. Now, I can tell you, I have worked on the Summit\nsince the last Summit. This doesn't prove anything but I tell you nothing happened\nthat was not foreseen. Now if youtell me we should have foreseen bigger things\nbut\nthere never was a plan to come up with anything concrete in the\neconomic field at the Summit. At no stage was there such a plan. Nothing much\ncan happen until MFN is þassed. And, really, the substance of the Summit\nwent substantially as planned. You have to understand, and this is off the\nrecord, right now there is such a mood of melaise --but look at the Summit\nin terms it was designed. If this summit had occureed as it did three months\nafter the last Americans had left VN, in an atmosphere of American rexx\nnational domestic reconcilation, everyone would say this was the big turning\ntoward peace. That's when the agreement on the prevention on nuclear war\nwould have had some symbolic significance. Now, when everyone is fly\nspecking because they feel attention is being diverted, you have to put the\ndesign of the Summit into a different setting than its execution. And, therefore\nsince the design was to mark maybe the end of the Cold War period, it wasn't\nreally ever considered that this would be a hugh economic summit.\nKt: Well, without disputing what you say about the press' expectation, the\nthing that struckmel early last week through the Wash. and Camp David\nstatement, this was the point that they kept hammering on. Now, were they\njust talking to the American public\nK: I think they thought they could make a major impact on the Senate by their\nmeeting with the Foreign Relations Committee which incidently was the wrong\nCommittee to meet with since their economic\nit was not the wrong\nCommittee for Foreign Policy. That is not where they are having trouble.\nKt: But Dobrynin knows that. Is he less sharp on Amer. politics than he\nis credited to be?\nK: No, he is very sharp. But he may not be the only advisor.\nAnd you know, it is a question of\nyou have to take my word for it. There\nnever was any plan for a specific outsome. The economic section of the\ncommunique\nagain off the record.\nwas written before they W ever got\nhere.\nKt: OK. Can you clarify this business of the mixed meeting between Nixon\nand Brezhnev? Now I think one of the reason for the confusion is that some\nof the questions themselves are confused. Are we talking about\nWere there two separate meetings? One which would be the President's\nreturn to Moscow as the next Soviet-Amer. Summit but that there might be\nbefore that a CSCE summit.\nis that what he had in mind?\nK: I'll tell you the truth. You must always allow for the fact that leaders\nget carried away with themselves. If he was thinking of anything than exuberance.\nIn my opinion there is no possibility of a return visit to Moscow within a year\nand I don't see how we could get another Summit put together with any success\nin 6 to 8 months. And we certainly will not go a summit to have had a meeting.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n4\nK: I mean short of some overwhelming cataclysmic\ncrisis. So if\nhe was thinking of anything at all it must have been hoping for a European\nsecurity conference. On that opposition they said it depends on the\nevolution of the European security conference. And we are neutral on it.\nMy guess is that the Europeans will be pushed into wanting a summit and\nthen we will have to go along.\nI mean we are neutral. We have no overwhelming desire no way or another.\nKt: Why is he talking to Pompidou now?\nK: I think he's talking to Pompidou because we stopped in Warsaw on our\nway back from Moscow and so he can do the same thing in our alliance.\nSecond, because the French like to create the impression that they have\nan independent field of activity and think those are the principle reasons.\nWe're not concerned about it.\nKt: No, I wasn't indicating that. Do you have any feeling whether it\nwas by French initiative or by Soviet initative?\nK: I am not sure. I think it is one of those things that serve both of their\npurposes. We've got slightly conflicting reporte.\nKt: Is there anything else in the way of just general results or impressi ons\nthat you would like to convey if that background does get held.\nor a feeling\nK: Well, you know I am apologetic about this god-damn meeting. I was\nwilling to do it anytime it suited the press. It turned into a national issue,\nI mean at least a local issue.\nKt: I distinctly had the impression last night that you did not call off the\nlast session.\nThat was not my question.\nK: Well, I think, candidly, I believe this meeting, this summit, if we are\nlucky in trying to bring off this over a period of years, could be seen in\nretrospect as extremely important. See, if you have a score card and say\nwhat achievements were break throughs and what aren't. As I explained\nyesterday, if this policy takes hold, we can't have break throughs as such.\nBecause the turn has been accomplished. But it was the first time that\nthere have been two sequential summits between Soviet and Amer. leaders\nso that for the first time\nall other have been one-sided affairs.\nAnd they have never had a program to pursue over the years.\nNow, as I said, this thing could reverse again. It's getting harder to reverse.\nWith so many bureaucracies involved on both sides, and after all, take the\nSoviet situation, in all the newspapers they've seen every agreement has\nbeen printed in their newspapers. Three quarters of their newspapers have\nbeen devoted to this for a week. I don't underestimate their ability to reverse\ncourse. But you pursue this for another year or so and at least it is\nsomething that must be considered. So I think this summit, if we are able to\nput all the other pleces in place too around the world, could be seen as one\nof the major steps in a international order. And you can't just\nmeasure it in terms of this or that agreement. When you are dealing with\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n5\ncrisis you could measure progress in terms of agreement. When you are\nputting up a building you.. have to look at the total architecture.\nKt: Do you get the feeling that they are really basically anxious to develop\nthis relationship as we are?\nK: Yes, I think they are as anxious but what their own reasons are I must\ntell you I would reserve judgment on that. But it has often happened in\nhistory that something was started for one reason and developed a momentum\nof its own.\nKt: Do you have any feeling that they might lean harder on Hanoi? As part\nof this developing relationship with us?\nK: My impression is that they will not stir up the situation in VN.\nKt: I was thinking of the other direction.\nrather than stir uxpx it up,\nK: I think they will contribute to stabilizing it\nBut that is also off the record.\nKt: OK. Thanks very much\nK: Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nJune 26, 1973\nMr. Kissinger - Ambassador Dobrynin\n11:00 m.\nK:\nYou think that is all right the way it is.\nD: Yes.\nK: O.K.\nD:\nK:\nwhich we have some thought about it in regard to Salt.\nK: Anatole, we have been receiving some information with respect\nto silos which we have in\nand rather than put it into\nan official channel we will put in in a private channel.\nD: O.K.\nK: I would\nik\nappreciate some sort of answer.\nD: O.K.\nwhat I mentioned to you yesterday.\nK: Yes, and he was very pleased. I am staying in the U.S. That\nis pure speculation. You know, that is Marvin Kalb again.\nD: When will you be back?\nK: Around the 8th.\nD:\nElizabeth and David.\nK: That's very kind of you. Yes, around the 8th. And Anatole,\nyou got the letter yesterday.\nD: Yes, and thank you very much.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nJune 26, 1973\nMr. Kissinger - Hugh Morrow\n11:19 m.\nI reached the Governor in London and he said\nM:\nthat obviously there could never have been a conversation between you\nNelson on that subject.\nK: How about putting that out?\nM: I'm going to right away.\nK: Good.\nM: OK?\nK: Good.\nM: I'v.\nwe've got several ferries, we'll see that it gets around.\nK: It would be helpful to me. I don't recall that we ever had such a conversation.\nM: Nelson said no. He said he didn't recall it. And, he said, in any event,\nJ. Edgar Hoover never told me anything.\nK: The whole thing sounds absurd.\nM: Yeah, its a funny statement. It's a speculative kind of thing. It quotes\nNelson er Sullivan as saying. And, of course, Sullivan was mad at J. Edgar\nat the time. Ah, it's\nK: I didn't actually see it. What did he actually say? That Sullivan said.\nM: Yeah, this was Dean recounting a conversation with the President in which\nDean quotes Sullivan as having said that he understood J. Edgar Hoover who\nwas represented as disapproving of wiretaps on newsmen and members of the\nWhite House Staff as having said this to somebody and that it probably came back.\nor that Rockefeller got a hold of it somehow and that it came back to the W.H.\nfrom Gov. Rockefeller talking to you.\nK: Yeah, well that's total nonsense.\nM: Yeah, well, that's what Nelson said. Absolute nonsense.\nK: Because, first of all, between you and me, Ididn't know newsmen were being\ntaped.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nM: Well, obviously I didn't know either. But, anywow, that.\nT11 get the\nstatement right away.\nK: Good. Many thanks.\nM: Take care.\nK: Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nMelvin Laird/Kissinger\n1:32 p.m. - 6/26/73\nK:\nHello.\nL:\nHenry.\nK:\nHow are you, Mel?\nL:\nGood, how are you getting along?\nK:\nOK.\nL:\nHenry, they've tied that amendment on now that Continuing Resolution\nand I guess they're going to tie it on the debt limit. Now on the\nsupplemental I don't think there was any problem with it. It would have\nbeen better if we only had to battle it on one. We lost it by very few\nvotes. It was a tie vote yesterday.\nK:\nYeh.\nL:\nI hope you look at that real carefully and make sure that you need\nthe authority. If you're sure you need it\nK:\nI would like it for two months, yes.\nL:\nIt really jeopardizes any chance of success without it.\nK:\nIt substantially jeopardizes it, yes.\nL:\nWell, I think that we can probably sustain the veto. I don't know what\nwe'll do from then but you know they're going to blame it - this is all\ngoing to be tied up in the context of Watergate. That's the problem\nwith this damn thing the way it's going. You understand that, don't\nyou, Henry, that we lost votes today because of that damn hearing\nyesterday.\nK:\nNo, I don't.\nL:\nWell, we did.\nK:\nI mean, did we lose again today?\nL:\nYeh. We lost again today. They put it on the Continuing Resolution,\nthe same amendment but they put it on by a vote of about 25 or 30 votes.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nWell, what's your judgment; Mel?\nL:\nWell if it's needed, if this authority is needed for success in Cambodia,\nthen you have to veto. But if there's a chance of success - a fairly\nreasonable chance -- without it I'd hate to tie up the whole damn\ngovernment. Follow me?\nK:\nYeh.\nL:\nIf they tie up the government and don't pay social security employees\nand others, they are going to not blame the bombing thing, they are\ngoing to blame Watergate.\nK:\nYeh, it's a pity we lost it by a tie vote, isn't it?\nL:\nYeh, it was a shame. But today it was worse in the House. Today\nI got rolled by about 25 votes.\nK:\nI just don't see how we can handle it. Everything is just going to come\napart in Cambodia if we stop bombing. I think we can get it done in\ntwo months. Can you help us?\nL:\nSure, I'll help.\nK:\nWe will accept the September 1st cut off. I told our idiot guys that\nif nothing else worked, I'd accept it.\nL:\nYeh.\nK:\nAnd they told me they had a chance at it without it.\nL:\nYeh, but you remember I talked to you about that, Henry.\nK:\nMy position has been I prefer not to have the cutoff but it's a helluva\nlot better than a July 1 cutoff.\nL:\nWell today they voted against the September 1 cutoff by over 25 votes.\nK:\nAnd you think that's the hearing yesterday.\nL:\nWell, I think that contributed to it, yes.\nK:\nYou think that hearing is a setback? What is your assessment?\nL:\nWell, it is right now. I think we'll get over it but it'll be a tough four\nweeks.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nK:\nYou do?\nL:\nYeh, a very tough four week period because I mean you're going to\nhave Mitchell and Haldeman and Ehrlichman. These guys aren't\ngoing to be a standup as a lot of people think they are you know.\nK:\nCertainly not Mitchell and Ehrlichman.\nL:\nYeh.\nK:\nNo, I have no illusions about that.\nL:\nYeh. You know when they' re facing the penitentiary they - you have\nto understand that, Henry.\nK:\nYeh, although they're not helping themselves. Doesn't do them any\ngood to dump it on the President. It doesn't make them any less\nculpable.\nL:\nNo, I think the best you could probably get now is if you come out\nfor a 30 or a 45 day thing and support it on this other question. I\ndon't think you can go back to the September 1 date. Henry, by the\nway the vote was 218 to 194 - 24 vote spread.\nK:\nYeh. Do you think we could have won it on a September 1 cutoff?\nL:\nWe could have won it if we would have supported it. You follow me?\nK:\nYeh.\nL:\nBut we couldn't win it without coming out supporting it. You see there's\na difference there.\nK:\nI understand. Well, I had always assumed we would go to that if we\nstood a chance of losing the other one.\nL:\nYeh, but all the heat was put on the other one and that was the tou gh\none you see. But we don't need to talk about that. The problem that\nwe have now Henry is that if it's absolutely essential for Cambodia,\nI think the best you can get is from 30 - 45 days.\nK:\n30 is almost useless; 45 could help.\nL:\nAnd that would have to be done with the support of the Administration.\nWhether you want to go that far I don't know. It would have to be the\nveto with the understanding that he was vetoing and asking for 45 days\nmore because of negotiations.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n4\nL:\nAnd I think that weakens your negotiating position to such an extent\nthat you might as well not have the authority.\nK:\nYeh. We really have to think about whether we are not better off\nsaying these sons-of-bitches just are responsible for the defeat.\nL:\nPolitically, you'd be better off - I don't think Cambodia will ever\nwork out very well anyway and I'd like to be able to blame these\nguys for doing it myself. But that's - Henry, you know I'm a kind of\na black character and I'd like to blame these guys for the incapability\nof getting these things resolved because I think it's damn touch and\ngo to get it resolved as far as Cambodia is concerned anyway.\nK:\nYeh.\nL:\nI'd like to be able to blame them.\nK:\nNo, we'd have a pretty good chance because we got the Chinese involved\nand the Soviets involved but I get your point. If we say - 45 days won't\ndo us a goddamn bit of good.\nL:\nThen I think if the President comes out and says that's all he needs\nthat weakens your negotiating position anyway.\nK:\nThat's impossible. OK, I'll call you tomorrow about this. Is that\ntime enough?\nL:\nYeh, sure Henry, I just wanted to talk to you because I wanted you to\nmake sure that you address these issues, that's all.\nK:\nRight, I'll call you tomorrow, Mel.\nL:\nAll right, Fine, Henry.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nSecure Phone\nDr. Schlesinger/Kissinger\n1:45 p.m. - 6/26/73\nK:\nHello.\nS:\nHow are you doing?\nK:\nOK.\nS:\nThe House, as you probably know, has voted through the Continuing\nResolution and just added the An\namendment which precluded\nany military action in any of the four countries without explicit\nauthorization of Congress. The cutoff of activities in Cambodia is\nat midnight on the 30th. A Continuing Resolution is something that\nis normally not even considered for veto so we are going to have\nto face up to the question of a partial evacuation of Americans out of\nPhnom Penh.\nK:\nYeh, I just think that a partial evacuation together with a cutoff will\nlead to a total collapse in Cambodia,\nS:\nIt points in that direction. I asked Bill Colby to run out to the station\nto see what their expectations are going to be.\nK:\nYes.\nS:\nWe lost it.\nK:\nBy 24 votes.\nS:\nWell, it was a 60 vote margin on the critical vote. Something like\n232 - 170. It is just getting weaker and weaker each day and the\nContinuing Resolution was passed by 385 - 90. As a result even a\nveto could be contemplated for a Continuing Resolution - it could be\noverridden. It also puts us into a very (tough) position\nfunds after the Fiscal Year.\nK:\nIt is getting impossible to do anything in Indochina.\nS:\nThat is right.\nWe can³t\nthe bombing should the North\nVietnamese resume the bombing.\nK:\nOr the mining.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nS:\nWell, the mining I have to check on. That may be sufficiently gray\narea that it is possible, but the Resolution was pretty well\n.\nK:\nThat finishes us.\nS:\nThat's right. We have run out of string on this one. I trust the\nNorth Vietnamese will stay put and the responsibility for the pending\ncollapse of Cambodis should be pinned on the Congress. Normally\nthey bitch at the Executive Branch. They should be made to recognize\nit is their responsibility. I think it should bring over in time some\nimprovement of the public\nK:\nYes, but it doesn't help us anywhere.\nS:\nNot in Cambodia.\nK:\nSo the Continuing Resolution applies only for two months.\nS:\nYes, but they will\non to\nafter that.\nWhat I am hoping here is the debacle in Cambodia will\nthem\ninto their place.\nK:\nOK, I will talk to the President and let you know tomorrow.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Mr. Maw\n9:15 a. m.\n6/27/73\nCM:\nHello, Henry, how are you.\nHK:\nCarl, how are you.\nCM\nFine.\nHK\nI wanted to ask you as a general rule, I am getting some awards now\nfor distinguished public service, some of which have money attached to\nthem, what is my position with respect to that.\nCM:\nI think you could accept provided there are no strings, if it is just an\nan award.\nHK:\nNo, no it is an award.\nThere are two that I am getting.\nCM:\nWhat are we talking about?\nHK:\nOne is--I don't know what it is called just being founded, but it is a very\nprestigious group. I know Jackie Kennedy is the Vice Chairman, it's a\nbipartisan group of very senior people. I can get you a list, but Terry\nSanford, I think from each state--one or two from each state and they are\ngiving their first awards July 4.\nCM:\nAnd it would be a public award of merit accomplishment\nHK:\nThat's right.\nAnd that has I think $5, 000. And then there is another one for which\nMrs. Longworth is going to give to me that is in honor of her father,\nthat is given annually- I think that has $1, 500 attached to it.\nCM:\nI think that is quite all right. But let me just check it out and come back\nto you in a couple of hours.\nHK:\nCan you do that--not just on the legality, which I assume it has to be\nlegal, but on the ethics of it. Youknow, I can do three things, I can\naccept it and keep it, I can accept it and turn it over to charity, or I\ncan accept the award and not take the money.\nCM:\nThat's right. I'll come back to you later--where are you now, in\nWashington?\nHK:\nI'm in San Clemente but you can reach me through Washington or you\ncan reach me at 714 492 0011.\nCM:\nI'll be back with you this afternoon,\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nHK:\nJust been watching Mr. Dean on television. I don't think you'd hire\nhim for your law firm, would you?\nCM:\nI should say not, I started to look at it last night, got bored sick.\nThere is something awful funny.\nHK:\nI never knew him, thank Go d\nCM:\nDid you ever meet him at all?\nHK:\nThe amazing thing is I would get memos--legal memos from his office\nand then I'd see this young guy run around the halls and I never put the\nname and the face together. I always thought that the Counsel to the\nPresident had to be a senior guy. So I never thought that this young guy\ncould be the John Dean who was sending me memos.\nCM\nExtraordinary.\nHK:\nSo I don't recall any meetingI have had with him.\nHK:\nXM:\nHe may have sat in large meetings where he didn't say anything.\nBut if I had to testify I would have to say I never talked to him.\nI have no recollection to any conversation with him.\nCM:\nThat's good. He is not one to have dealings with.\nHK:\nWell he mentioned me once. He claimed that J Edgar Hoover had told\nRockefeller who had told me who had told the President who had told him\nthat J. Edgar Hoover objected to the wire tapping of four newsmen.\nRockefeller has already denied talking to Hoover or to me. And I\nhave to deny that I talked to either Rockefeller or XX to the President,\non this matter.\nBut he just slipped that KCX in it was just--it\nwas directed at me.\nCM:\nOkay, Henry, I'll be back at you this afternoon.\nHK:\nGood.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDr. Kissinger/Dr. Schlesinger\n(SECURE)\n6/27/73 10:15 a. m.\nS:\nWe did a little better--they knocked out North Vietnam and South\nVietnam on the Mahon Amendment- very close - now we have only\nLaos and Cambodia.\nK:\nYou know we intend to veto that.\nS:\nI understand that you sent up already a supplemental on the Hill.\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nOn the CRA will will have some problems on the veto on that.\nK:\nWe want you to hang tough on this - If we are driven out of Indochina\nlet Congress do it not us. We don't want to panic. This is an\noutrage. If anyone wants to take the responsibility, let them to it\nthen. Jim, will you get the Department of Defense to stop talking\nabout what it will and will not do.\nwe\nS:\nI don't know what anyone has said. Jerry has only said that/will\nobey the law.\nK:\nWe will have to use our ingeniity to keep this thing goind- - - I hope we\nget al teast 30 days. It's not all we need, but it will help.\nS:\nI hope we get more.\nK:\nWe want 60 days.\nS:\nThey (Congress) are going to hang something on one of these bills\nwhich will make it impossible to veto. But I think Congress is\nsigning a death warrant. Henry, I have a letter you received from\nCromer.\nK:\nYes.\nS:\nYou are familiar with the problems. The issue is whether you should\nhave a todo with Congress to give Britian MIRV's technology. I read\ninto your letter that you are not worried about Russian\nI think we should just given them the warhead and defense mechanisms\ntechnology- that is all they need. They don't need MIRVs.\nDECLASSIFIED\nE.O. 13526, Section 3.5\nPer Hr. 11-20-2013\nBy NARA, Date 4-22-2016\nNLN08-47/12370[E.10f2]\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nK:\nI am not committed to that (to give MIRV's tech to Britian). Just\nwanted to pass it on to you. My instinct is that they don't need\nthe MIRV accuracy. But explain that to me in your reply to me.\nThey will settle for the other. Well they have no coice.\nS:\nRight. They have understood we are reluctant to pass MIRVs\non to them.\nK:\nWe can give MIRV later in exchange for stmething else maybe during\nSALT.\nS:\nI think we should get something out of it rather than just give it\naway.\nK:\nRight, Jim. Bye.\nS:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nCong. Holifield/Mr. Kissinger\n10:34 a. m. 6/28/73\nHK:\nwith respect to Cambodia\nH:\nyes.\nHK:\nI know it's çoming up today and I reall feel very strongly that we now\npartly as a result of our discussions here, partly as a result of other\nthings, that we have an opportunity to wind this thing up and if the Senate\nversion were adopted it might really totally destroy this and I was wondering\nif I could appeal to you to help us support the House version.\nCH:\nWell I have pretty well gone along with the President's program all the way\nbut I'm in doubt on this particularthing, Dr. Kissinger, I want to listen to\nthe debate today on it before I make my decision, but frankly I am leaning\ntoward voting for the Eagleton amendment. I wouldn't Xisabase you.\nI'm not committed on it yet to anyone, but I can see very little reason for\ncontinued bombing. I stayed with the President all through the Vietnam\nsituation right up until the last, but it looks a little different to me now\nand I'm - frankly I'm leaning toward the Eagleton amendment.\nHK:\nWell, ah, you see, our view is (1) we can reduce the bombing considerably\nand I can tell you now that if we don't succeed except when it is made public\nit doesn't help us, by September we'll be prepared to go along with this.\nCH:\nAh huh.\nHK:\nBut we are so close to getting this negotiation under way, that we'd just like\nto have an opportunity to see it develop without being stopped in the very last\nweeks of what would than be a successful disengagement, by the Congress\nquite frankly I mean you arenot here voting for an open ended commitment\nand this I want to assure you of\nCH:\nI'll consider it very carefully Dr. Kissinger and I see that the bells have\njust rung for a vote - don't know whether it is on this or or something else\nso I will have to go the floor and I appreciate your calling.\nHK:\nRight, nice to talk to you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Taft Schreiber\n11:20 a.m. 6/27/73\nHK:\nTaft, I'm giving a dinner this Friday for the French FonMin and the\nfollowing Friday for the Chinese Amb. here and I've asked Lou\nWasserman for this Friday and I thought if you could come the following\nFrid for the Chinese.\nTS:\nI'd love to but--but we're leaving Sat morn for Europe.\nHK:\nThen do you want to come this Friday?\nTS:\nI'd love to, but I have to check my house -\nWhere are you going to do that?\nHK:\nI wanted to ask your advice on that\nor the Bistro\nTS:\nI would suggest either Chassons depending on the number of people\nHK:\nI'll have about 20-22\nTS:\nI think either place would do and if you want help from us in arranging\nlike photographer and celebrities - I'll make calls for you.\nHK:\nWe can do the inviting if - what would be a big help to me is if somebody\nfrom your office they did su ch a beautiful job in getting the room set\nup--\nTS:\nI can get Herb to do it--for about 20 people-\nHK:\nThe one for the Chinese may be a bit bigger\nTS:\nWhatever you want--I'll have Herb call you back-\nHK:\nCan he call Mrs. Andrews in my office? And will you let me know whether\nyou can come.\nTS:\nYes, well call you right back who would you ask - Lou for the following\nFriday\nHK:\nNo, I'll have you both-\nTS:\nBecause he's leaving on Sat or Sun for Europe we have a board meeting\nHK:\nI see. Can have two executives from Universal considering that I'm going\nto be your leading man.\nTS:\nYour buttering both sides of the bread.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nHK:\nI might get a weekly serial.\nTS:\nYou are going to write you own ticket as an actor. WhenI see\nGeneral Secretary Brezhnev kiss you on both cheecks - I read in\nTime Mag - - that your advising him - - he doesn't even talk to his\nown advisor- - - that's the kind of advisor I want.\nHK:\nHe and I have a great relationsip\nTS:\nI willget on this right away.\nHK:\nGood.\nTS:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nNIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS PROJECT\nDOCUMENT CONTROL RECORD\nITEM REMOVED FROM THIS FILE FOLDER\nA RESTRICTED DOCUMENT OR CASE FILE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM\nTHIS FILE FOLDER. FOR A DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEM REMOVED\nAND THE REASON FOR ITS REMOVAL, CONSULT DOCUMENT ENTRY\nNUMBER 1 ON EITHER THE DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD\n(GSA FORM 7279 OR NA FORM 1421) OR NARA WITHDRAWAL SHEET\n(GSA FORM 7122) LOCATED IN THE FRONT OF THIS FILE FOLDER.\nA sanitized copy substituted for an original item which\ncontains information restricted under the Privacy Act.\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nNLN Form 101 (revised 6-85)\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRichard Valeriani/Mr. Kissinger\n6/27/73\n2:20\np.m.\nDV:\nI wanted to check in terms of the veto message--about the ongoing\ndiplomatic efforts to get a settlement in Cambodia. Have they progressed\nany since last you talked to them.\nHK:\nI can't give daily progress reports\nDV:\nIn terms of this development--are we talking bout something sic months a\naway?\nHK:\nNo, I have said we are talking about something that we hope to condude\nduring this summer.\nDV:\nAnd ah\nHK:\nThis is on deep background\nDVL\nRight. Is there any recent development or do you have any imminent\nthat you will participate in to speed this along.\nHK:\nI can't go into that except to say that we have-- I think to cut this thing\noff now would be a calamity. Without giving us an opportunity to bring\nthe effort in which we are engaged to a conclusion.\nDV:\nIs there something--\nHK:\nIt is not a question of whether to give a day=to-day progress rpport\n--it is obvious for example that certain things have to wait till Sihounok\nreturns to Peking which won't be for another few days. But I can't\ngo any more deeply into it. And you ought to remember these this\nis now being played like a rerun of all the Vietnam debates of recent\nyears. But the Nietnam war is over. We nægotiated a settlement.\nWhat conceivable reason--no flyers are being lost no prisoners are\nbeing taken. We are trying to wind up the last þhase in the -consistent\nwith the other settlement. That is all this a is about. This is not a\nIndochina war thing.\nDV:\nIf the Senate says okay look if this DS still going by October 1 or Nov. 1\nHK:\nIt 4 would be very understanble then the difficulty with that is this\n--we can do that as a gentleman's understanding with the Senate--it\nwould be somewhat counterproductive to make it legislation--see what\nI mean.\nDV:\nI unnderstand why you can't have a fixed deadline to negotiate again--\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 2\nHK:\nBut in terms if the leaders of the SEnate came to us and said October 1\nwe would think this is a reasonable proposition.\nBut we would like it as a gentleman's agreement. But speculate on\nthat on your own, will you?\nDV:\nOkay.\nHK:\nYou can'ascribe that to sources, but to give you some feeling for what\nwe are thinking.\nDV:\nThat's what I'm looking for -\nHK:\nWe would nd think that someone is asking anything unreasonable\nof us if that twere the way it went.\nDV:Q\nOkay fine, thank you very much.\nHK:\nGood.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nLou Wasserman/Mr. Kissinger\n9:30 a. m. 6/27/73\nLW:\nHi, Henry, I won't ask how you are doing down there.\nHK:\nThere must be some shit in the country that we didn't hire in our\nstaff. Somebody said to me yesterday he must be in Kuwan tapping\nsomebody elses telephone.\nLW:\nThat's right.\nHK:\nLou I'm giving a dinner Friday night for the French FonMin\nand I wondered whether you and your wife would like to come\nLW:\nSure I would love to.\nHK:\nGood, then let me let you know where it is going to be.\nLW:\nSure, we'd be happy to come.\nHK:\nGood, I'll let you know, it is informal\nI'll let you know the - -\nLW:\nI'll look forward to seeing you and cheering you up if I can.\nHK:\nYouregreat. They haven't gotten to the K's in the testimony yet\nso I am pretty safe.\nLW:\nI heard something about the K's from our friend Herb\nHK:\nIsn't that awful. You know the tragedy of so many well-meaning,\ndedicated man who got themselves destøoyed.\nLW\nWiped out for no reason.\nHK:\nFor petty baloney. Good Lou, see you Friday night.\nLW:\nSee you Friday night.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nMr. Kissinger/Cong. Morgan\n10:45 a. m. 6/28/73\nHK:\nHello, Mr. Chairman?\nM:\nYes, Henry.\nHK:\nHow are you?\nM:\nPretty good.\nHK:\nI don't normally call congressman about congressional--abou votes,\nin fact I've never done it, but I think that vote on Cambodia today\nis really so important that I wanted you to have our view which is that\nthe House version is one we can live with, but the Eagleton amendment\nwould be really very serious.\nM:\nAh huh.\nHK:\nAnd I can tell you personally we don't intend to carry this beyond the\nsummer but we have sùch a good chance we think of getting it wound\nup that we--that a negative vote now would really have a rather serious\nconsequences.\nM:\nWell a vote is going on now and the previous question is already-- I voted\nbut I'll take your views into consideration on this final vote. You know.\nDo you think it is really important.\nHK:\nI think it is really very important, and I don't think I have ever called you\nbefore.\nM:\nNo sir.\nOkay, Henry, but it'll cause me some real difficulty back in my area.\nHK:\nWell I think though you'd be vindicated wikhouxtxix within not too distant\na future. I think by the end of the summer.\nM:\nYeh, okay thanks for calling Henry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nPierre Salinger/Kissinger\n11:12 a. m. - 6/28/73\nK:\nHello.\nS:\nHello.\nK:\nHow are you, Pierre?\nS:\nOh, how are you?\nK:\nOK.\nS:\nThings are all right in California?\nK:\n(Laughs) Yeh.\nS:\nListen, the reason I'm calling is - do you see any dates either next\nweek or the week after or in the near future when we can do that\ninterview or have you cooled on the idea or what?\nK:\nNo, but I frankly want to get at least this week's hearings behind us.\nS:\nYeh,\nK:\nBefore I make any decisions when I'm going to say something.\nS:\nLet me tell you my problem; it's not your problem obviously but I'm\ngoing back to Paris tonight and in principle I'm going off on vacation\nat the end of the week.\nK:\nWhy don't you do that.\nS:\nWhich would mean that I wouldn't be available until early August.\nK:\nThat's a better time anyway.\nS:\nIt is?\nK:\nYeh.\nS:\nWe leave it that way.\nK:\nLet's leave it that way.\nS:\nOK, you' re very nice to call back.\nK:\nHave a good vacation.\nS:\nThanks a lot. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nMr. Kissinger/Taft Schreiber\n11:35 a. m.\n6/28/73\nHK:\nHello\nTS:\nHenry, Taft.\nHK:\nTaft, I still can't take that job.\nTS:\nAh huh. Listen you better do it while you've got all these things going\non. You know bringing the Premier here, the next thing you are going\nto do is bring Mao here and then Chou and this is the hot period.\nSo we have to get your pricture on the screen while you are always on\nthe front page newspaper.\nHK:\nI'll consider it. Depends on the leading lady.\nTS:\nAll right. We'll give you your pick.\nHK:\nIt was good to see you.\nTS:\nIt was wonderful seeing you Henry and I can imagine how busy you've been\nand it was a very trying time for everyone. But I'm sure it will all be fine.\nI have every reason to believe that everything will be great. There probably\ngoing to be some people that are hurt, but it won't be our President.\nHK:\nNo.\nis\nTS:\nThe reason I called you/that Sunday after the line was over and Henry\nSalvitore said to me, let's ask the President if we can go with a special\ngroup from this group here to Russiarto see if we can't do something\nabout helping the business relationships between our two countries, he\nsaid here is Dave Packard, head of the largest electronic company,\nTex Thornton, Litton Industries, O Miller, Chairman of Standard Oil,.\nyou (Taft) from the movie industry and said--he--his company by the\nway is the largest exploration company for gas and oil-- the greatest\nscientists in oil and gas and mineral explorations.\nHK:\nRight.\npulled\nTS:\nSo I said fine, let's go ask him, so Italk him to walk over in he said how\ncan you do this, I said I just am a man that asks. So I the President-\nthe line had been over and the President was listening in on a conversation\nbetween Brezhnev and Reagan and I walked up and he turned to me and I\ntold him what had happened and he said the interpreter picked this up--\nhe kind of pushed me in the interpreter told Brezhnev and Brezhnev\nsaid well if the trip is sponsored by the President, I'm sure it would be\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nfine, but I think there are many things we have to do why don't you talkl\nto Dobrynin and the President and when the interpreter the President\nsaid of course, he said, these are wonderful men and great friends of\nyours and our country and they could-- I think it would be fine. And he\nsiad there are a lot of details to be worked Brezhnev was saying this\nin Russian--and then we said look we're patient, we will do everything we\nare asked to do and with that he stuck his hand out in Russian, you're\ninvited. So the President said yœ've got your deal now; I understood SO\nwalked away. Well Henry was in the state of shock. I talked to A1 Hiag\nfor a minute and told him about it and he said fine. He said fine--oh yeh\nBrezhnev said be sure be in touch with Dobrynin about this Now I talked\n--oh I mentioned to the President that Firestone who is there had told\nme coming down they had been thinking of building a plant there now, so\nI toldthis to Al and he said this was fine, let me know what--how you want\nto further this. Well in talking to Henry Salvatore this morning he said\nyou know I don't know whether we should ask our wives or should go it alone\nand I think business is all business and we'd like to be of help and we're\na special group and I think it ought to go to the mission and I said let me\ntalk to Henry Kissinger because I think if we are not going to have wives\nthis should be indicated rather than coming from you and I because we'll\nhave nothing but trouble but what Henry Salvatore is talking about is our\nengaging and we know it'll cost a lot of dough but hiring a large private\njet and going there and trying to visit several cities and meeting people\nand maybe breaking in special groups where I can talk to motion picture\npeople--this is not to upen up a trade between us but mayb e tell some of\ntheir people that we'd be hapþy to make a picture or two there and maybe\nbring some of their technicians over to see what we do and generally\ntrying to further if it is useful--\nHK:\nLook if you want to do the thing realistically write me a letter of what you\nwant and let me take it up with Dobrynin.\nTF:\nAll right. Now I will do that but I want to find out from you really is advice\nif you say Taft I don't think you ought to do it--I don't think it would be\nconstructive, I don't --I think you put the President in a spot--\nHK:\nLet me see the letter. I think it could be useful. I think basically we'd\nbe for it.\nTF:\nAll right. That's the purpose and when you talk to the President you might\ntell him that we had this conversation so that it is only going to be done if\nif's useful and helpful.\nHK:\nAbsolutely no question.\nTF:\nNo. 2, Wasserman called and said how was the affair and so forth I said\ngreat and he said you talk to Henry again, I said no I saw him for a minute\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 3\nhe was with a beautiful girl--who the hell wants to talk business SO he\nsaid anymore been said and I said I think we are on a time schedule--\nand he would get back to us--so he said to me then I hear he is making\na deal with an oil group--and I said I don't know-- I don't think there is\nany glamour in that. Just wanted to tell you he bugs me all the time\nHK:\nNo, no I'm not talking to anybody else because of this watergate think\nI didn't think I could resign right now.\nTS:\nWell you shouldn't Henry. It would be a terribly terribly bad thing.\nI think it may delay your schedules a little bit but at the same time\nI think you're so necessary in these relationships that are being put\ntogether that your country is more important than anything else right now.\nHK:\nI thought that I should wait until this thing shou has quieted down before\nI go back to my original scheme.\nTS:\nAll right. Let me just say again that (a) that it should quiet down in due\ncourse and (b) the appetite is greater. I have had a couple--I know Lou\nhasn't talked to anybody you see, but said wouldn't he be great--\n7,\nHK:\nActually Mike! Frankiewicz mentioned it to me the other day and I just\njust as an idea and I had lunch with him--I just acted as if--I brushed\nif off.\nTS:\nYou should because I know Lou hasn't told anybody- I think it would\ntake a pretty stupid man not to figure out that this wouldn't be a\nthe fact is that it could be almost a difference between everything in the\nfuture and SO we're being patient they're just--if I keep mentioning it\nto you it's not because I'm bugging you, because I'm fine.\nHK:\nWell I appreciate this very much.\nTS:\nOkay, Henry if there is anything that I can do please let me know.\nWe're going to get to England for 5-6 days--I've got a board meeting\nand then play golf and I'll be in NY about 15th of July. However, I'll\nget this off sometime today--are you staying here or going back to Washington\nHK:\nI'll stay until about the 8th or 9th.\nTS:\nThen I'll get this off to you right away. If you need anything let me know\nwill you?\nHK:\nThank you.\nTS:\nAll right. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nSec. Clements/Kissinger\n1:57 p.m. - 6/28/73\nK:\nHello.\nC:\nHenry.\nK:\nYes, how are you?\nC:\nI'm just fine. Hope I didn't interrupt too much out there for you.\nK:\nNo, that's all right.\nC:\nHenry, I have a problem here that we've got to decide today or tomorrow\nthat just came to my attention because of the contract program that\nhas to do with SCAD. Now very quickly and briefly you can jot some of\nthis down, it won't take but just about 3 minutes to get the high points.\nWe now have a program on SCAD that will give us 25% armed decoys\nand the other 75% will not be armed. We've spent $60 million to date\non R & D and we have a total to go of $315 million R & D and after we\ncomplete that, if we do successfully, production is going to be approxi-\nmately $1 billion for 864 of the missilès.\nK:\nRight.\nC:\nSo in effect they're about $1 million a piece. Now that's funded, Henry\non a program of $72 million in FY '74; $134 million for FY 175 and\n$75 million for FY 176. What's happening here is that our group and\nI have to concur in this - I don't have to, I do concur - our group, the\nDSART Group and everybody is saying we don't really think that this\nprogram has this kind of merit and this is the lowest priority item on\nthe list and therefore we feel that we can't support it and we should\nstop it before we get this kind of money in it. I'm thinking, first of\nall, Henry, NSC may want this program for cosmetic reasons with the\nSALT talks being where they are.\nK:\nThat's right.\nC:\nAnd furthermore we might be able to go ahead and accomplish two\npurposes, we might be able to drop this program on Saturday as such\nand then renegotiate it in a different form at a different spending level -\nand I'm talking about now\nK:\nWell, we wouldn't be happy about your dropping the program.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nC:\nWhat I'm trying to do, Henry, is to reduce the level of the spending\nand retain the technology because we have some $60 million in the\nR & D now and the technology fits the so-called cruise missile. It's\nthe same technology\nK:\nWhen do you have to have our answer?\nC:\nThe damn program is going to run out on Saturday.\nK:\nHow is it that we learn about it so late?\nC:\nWell, Henry, the question that you asked is the same question I asked\nand the answer is that they just didn't come to call with the thing and\ndidn't bring it in here for discussion until about 15 minutes ago. I\ndon't mean 15 minutes, it's 30 minutes, but I've been talking about it\nfor 30 minutes and I know what the program is. Now what we ought\nto do here is retain the technology, keep the technology going forward,\nconcentrate on the cruise missile aspects of it\nK:\nWell, what decision are you asking me to make then?\nC:\nWhat I'm asking you to do is to give me your best thoughts on how much\nimportance you put to this insofar as the cosmetics for SALT, that's\nall I'm asking you.\nK:\nWell, we would like to keep the maximum amount of the program going?\nC:\nMaximum amount?\nK:\nThat's right.\nC:\nHell, that's $50 million worth. It's funded right now into the present\nprogram and under the existing contract for $72 million in 1974 and\nI don't think that Congress is going to sit still for it.\nK:\nWell, the maximum possible amount then. What would they hold still\nfor?\nC:\nI think that we could go for about half that and concentrate on the cruise\nmissile aspects and use that technology on something that you and I\nboth have a helluva high interest in.\nK:\nI must tell you honestly, Bill, I'm getting very restive about the way\nthese things are being handled. We are operating on thinner and thinner\nmargins. Every service is getting so god damned selfish - I mean we\njust can't operate this way. You know that\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nC:\nNow look Henry don't tell me about something like this because I've\ngot a lot of complaints too. And we're doing the best we can, I think.\nK:\nWe told you months ago that the standoff missiles are the things the\nSoviets are worried about.\nC:\nThat's right and that's the thing I want to concentrate on, not this\ndamn thing.\nK:\nI frankly don't know all that much about it.\nC:\nOK, you and I, Henry, and I'm sure we're saying the same damn thing\nbecause the standoff cruise missile is important to you, it's important\nto me, the Russians are worried about it, we need that technology.\nWhat I want to do is keep the technology and move to the standoff missile\nand move away from this thing that is primarily an adjunct to upgrade\nthe B-52. That's all it is.\nK:\nYeh, but then the end result will be to play into the hands of those who\nwant to abolish the B-52's faster. You know it's awfully hard for me\nto make a quick judgment. I'd like to get my systems analyzt guy to\nat least give me his view.\nC:\nOH yeh. To go through that kind of a process which is really the thing\nthat our group has been doing for the last 3 or 4 days.\nK:\nYeh, but then let me have a paper. You know, you hit me with this\nwithout any advance warning, without giving me a chance to think about\nit. I can't make a reasonable judgment.\nC:\nWell, that's probably right.\nK:\nCan I call you tomorrow?\nC:\nOh sure.\nK:\nI'll call you tomorrow.\nC:\nAll right, that'll be good, I⁸11 wait until I hear from you tomorrow.\nK:\nGood.\nC:\nOK, Henry, thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nFlanigan/Kissinger\n2\"25 p.m. - 6/28/73\nK:\nHello.\nF:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nHello, Pete.\nF:\nYou will recall the two things we wanted to discuss. One prior to your\nJobert meeting.\nK:\nYeh, I've got yourmemo and I'll take all these issues up.\nF:\nThe ;only one that you have to initiate and it is very important, is 24-6.\nAnd in that issue they alone stood against us.\nK:\nI understand.\nF:\nRight. With regard to the mandate, the Irish were the ones who were\nmost, I regeret to say, most obstreperous with regard to agricul ture,\nbut they were doing it at the behalf, we believe, and I talked to\nd'Avignon who happened to be here and who is head of the drafting\ncommittee at the behest of the French. I don't know that - the mandate\nis not an impossible document. We can live with it though it's a little\ndifficult, but the 24-6 Henry, we do have an opportunity to do something\nabout this week. We can change it. If we get no progress it's going to\nmake our trade bill which in the last couple of days has gone downhill\neven more difficult.\nK:\nOK, I will stress this.\nF:\nGood. The second issue is most favored nation. We are now in the\nmarkup period with Ways and Means and expect shortly, though it\nmay not now be until the 9th to get to the MFN section. You will recall\nthat I gave you some language, both that we had already given to the\nCommittee\nK:\nYes, I remember it very well.\nF:\nAnd some more stringent language that we hope we can get okayed by\nthe Soviets so we'd have a little fallback position. You'll further recall\nK:\nYeh, what's the question?\nF:\nDo the Soviets agree?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified\n2\nK:\nWell, they take the position that they don't want to comment on our\nuh.\nThe second one I didn't particularly like. That was a little\nstringent.\nF:\nAll right.\nK:\nNow what was the essence again of both of them?\nF:\nThe essence was that\nK:\nBoth of them left the determination to the President.\nF:\nBoth left the determination to the President but both put the onus on\nthe direction to the President that if they reinstituted any discrimination\nby virtue of, education, race, color or creed or country of destination\nthat he would at that point withdraw MFN. So he could go ahead now\nand as long as they didn't start collecting the tax again that there would\nbe no withdrawal. But if they were to reinstitute the tax, then he would\nbe obliged to remove MFN.\nK:\nYeh.\nF:\nIncidentally as I told you then, in another meeting I tried the approach\non Alkimof and he seemed to think that he didn't want to give it any\nkind of Russian blessing, but he seemed to say they don't like any of\nthe problem, but they didn't find this\nK:\nWhy don't you run it past Dobrynin this afternoon.\nF:\nI will run it past Dobrynin.\nK:\nCall him up and tell him I asked you to call and I will call him from here.\nF:\nBefore I call or after. You want to call now?\nK:\nI'll call now.\nF:\nI'll call him in a half an hour.\nThank you Henry.\nK:\nThank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n2:35 p.m. - 6/28/73\nK:\nHello.\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nAnatol, how are you?\nD:\nAs you know I am missing you here.\nK:\nI bet.\nD:\n(Laughs) For two days I can't really speak with you and I feel a little\nbit uneasy. Today I don't know whether Colonel Kennedy mentioned\nto you, I called him and he will call you or just have a chance to discuss\nwith you, our\npromised your interview with his\n.\nK:\nOh, good.\nD:\nSo it's a good interview.\nK:\nGood. I'm delighted. Anatol, I told Peter Flanigan - he has two\namendments to the MFN legislation and I asked him to check them\nwith you - you know you can't give your - but just to see whether\nthey' re something you could live with. And he will call you within half\nan hour. I mean the practical consequence is to give us the right to\nextend MFN.\nD:\nYeh, I understand.\nOK, he will call me.\nK:\nHe will call you.\nD:\nWhen you will be back Henry?\nK:\nOh, another 10 days.\nD:\nOh, come on, it's too long.\nK:\n(Laughs)\nD:\nReally - ok. Have a little bit rest. I see that now the French Minister\nis there. I thought that they don't know what about our agreement. Now\nhe will be with you, he will spill everything.'\nK:\nWhat agreement?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nD:\nYou remember when our two bosses\nK:\nYeh, we never got your - Brezhnev was going to let me know within\n24 hours.\nD:\nLast time it was 28 hours.\nK:\nI never got it, did I?\nD:\nIt's now 48 hours. It arrived only yesterday.\nK:\nOh, I see.\nD:\nBecause he was in France. I am counting 28 hours because it was 24\nand then duri ng the last night it was agreed on 48. So I am counting\nby the end of tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. This is I am sure\nof. He will be today or tomorrow.\nK:\nTomorrow.\nD:\nSo you have to tell me then he because you will have first knowledge\nalready.\nK:\nI will keep in touch with you.\nD:\nOK.\nWhat I receive, I'm sure I will receive. Maybe I will call you\nthen from Kennedy's place. Do they have a direct line.\nK:\nYes, we have a direct line. Come over to Kennedy's place.\nD:\nI could come over there and then talk with you whenever I receive, all right\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nI think it will be better.\nK:\nMuch better.\nD:\nOK, Henry. Nice to talk with you.\nK:\nNice to talk to you. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nLaird/Kissinger\n6/28/73 - Evening from his Residence\nK:\nHello.\nL:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nMel, how are you?\nGoing to screw things up here now.\nL:\nWhat happened?\nK:\nI needed your advice, Mel.\nL:\nYeh.\nK:\nJack Javits - I called Javits at the request of Timmons about that Senate\nForeign Relations Committee. Now he says what they're considering\nis a cutoff of everything on August 15th. Not just Cambodia.\nL:\nWell hell, they already passed it out of the Senate cutting out everything\nimmediately - out of the Senate Appropriations Committee today.\nK:\nHe says what they' re willing to take is a cutoff that names Cambodia\nif we give them oral assurances that we won't do anything else, but\nyou know they'll leak that immediately.\nL:\nWell, I wouldn't - you don't want to do that. I think we can save the\nHouse vote. You know what the vote was on August 1, don't you?\nK:\nAugust 1 is no good to us.\nL:\nYeh, but you don't know what the vote was in Committee?\nK:\nNo.\nL:\n17\n-\n14.\nMarkeim defeated the August 1 - 17 - 14. Then they went on\nand voted 17 - 14 for the Rhoades Amendment which was the 15th of August.\nK:\nHow about September 1st?\nL:\nThey did not have the votes on that.\nK:\nYou know, it's almost beyond my comprehension Mel, they're going to\nthrow everything down the drain for nothing. If somebody can explain\nto me what this argument is about, I could understand last year's arguments\nbetter than this years.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nL:\nI could too, Henry. But they really are - you know actually I wish you\nwould - it's just amazing up there now, Henry.\nK:\nLook, you know how much confidence I have in your judgment, Mel,\nI'm not questioning it.\nL:\nYou know Jerry - I got two phone calls on this airplane from Jerry\nFord on the way out here.\nK:\nReally.\nL:\nWanting me to come back immediately. Now maybe I should go back.\nNow he's setting up a meeting where I'm going to talk to the House\nRepublicans at 8 o'clock tomorrow morning.\nK:\nHow can you do it? Oh, from here.\nL:\nBy phone in a conference call where they can ask me questions on it.\nHe says he can't pass August 15 if I don't do this.\nK:\nBut that's August 15th only for Cambodia?\nL:\nRight. And that's the way it should go to the Senate and the House will\nstand firm on that Henry.\nK:\nOK, then I'll tell Javits we can't make any deals.\nL:\nYeh, I think that you should stay with the House language. Don't give\nup anymore. I think we've gone as far as we can.\nK:\nMel we've gone further than we can afford.\nL:\nAnd the President has to say that he may come back to the Congress\nasking for a further authority when he signs this.\nK:\nCan't he let it become law without his signature?\nL:\nI'm not sure what it is with the recess.\nK:\nYeh.\nL:\nThey're going to put this on the Continuing Resolution too, I think.\nK:\nI'd rather not have him sign it at all.\nL:\nI think he may have to, I haven't looked at the legal.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nK:\nWe'll have to look at it, but you know this is one of the most vindictive,\ncheap actions that I've seen the Congress take. And it's not just in\nCambodia, it's going to hurt us murderously with the Chinese because\nif they think that the Congress can do these things to us in Cambodia,\nwhat are they going to do to us elsewhere.\nL:\nThe only problem is now, Henry, right now we've got no authority.\nWe've got to get some authority.\nK:\nThat's right. Yeh. (Laughs) A few more memos out of the White House\nand we won't have any left.\nL:\nGod, I wish people would keep cool on that thing for a while.\nK:\nWell, did you know that they were sending out that memo?\nL:\nI knew that they were told to start attacking.\nK:\nOh, it's just too god damn stupid. You don't attack when Dean is on the\nstand.\nL:\nI understand that, Henry. Christ, I told that to A1, I said''Al, you're\nmaking a mistake. 'Keep cool. \"\nK:\nThat's right. I would have left this week to him. We shouldn't attack\nuntil all this testimony is out.\nL:\nRight and then you can have a press conference and do something but\nwait 'til you're through with this thing.\nK:\nThat's what I think. That just gives some ammunition to hit us.\nL:\nBoy, I tell you this is kind of a - we got to get together once in a while,\nHenry. This gets to be kind of a weird operation as far as I'm concerned.\nK:\nLook, Mel, you and Al and I when we're in the same town must get\ntogether. This is absurd. It's absurd if we let them play this game\nagain we're going to have the same bloody nightmares as before. As I\nunderstand it, Haig refused it and then he went through Ziegler - that\ncannot be. I mean I agree with you, Mel, when I look at this from the\npoint of view of foreign policy, you know and I know that we're living\noff fat.\nL:\nYeh, I understand.\nK:\nAnd as soon as other countries recognize how little authority there is\nleft here we are just going to be in murderous difficulty. And we can't\nafford these stupid mistakes anymore.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n4\nL:\nI called Haig, you know, about this. I guess I should have called the\nPresident, but I understood that he was the one that was very much\nconcerned and wanted something done.\nK:\nHaig?\nL:\nThe President.\nK:\nThe President always wants something done and we got into this mess\nbecause people reacted.\nL:\nYou can't overeact all the time though, Henry.\nK:\nI couldn't agree more.\nL:\nOK.\nK:\nOK, Mel, look I will tell Javits then that we cannot go further than\nAugust 15th on Cambodia.\nL:\nYeh, tell him that we've gone along with the so-called Mayheim position\nand you just can't back away from it now. All we said there is that\nwe wouldn't veto it and that the President would have to make a statement\nthat he might have to come back to the Congress for more authority.\nK:\nIs this what Bill said on the Hill or did he go further?\nL:\nNo, that's what he told them. He said that it wouldn't be vetoed, but\nif it was signed the President would have to say that he may have to\ncome back to ask for further authority.\nK:\nBecause he certainly didn't sound very tough on television tonight.\nL:\nWell, I don't know about that - oh, you mean Bill Rogers. I was thinking\nof Bill Timmons.\nK:\nNo, Bill Rogers.\nL:\nOh, Christ, did he say something on this tonight?\nK:\nYeh, he said that Congress has it's view and we have our view and we'll\nfind a compromise inbetween.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nGeneral Haig/Mr. Kissinger\nJune 28, 1973\n8:30 p.m.\nGH:\nHenry, I haven't talked to Timmons, so I got the latest word on this\nthing- - the House Committee came out withthe second supplemental\nwith an agreed position XX that it would have 15 August\nHK:\nYeh, I talked to Laird and he thinks we shouldn't yield anymore.\nGH:\nOkay, that's about what I think too and if they can get the second supple-\nmental pre-report tomorrow then they may take the lead from that\nIt is a weak bill, you know, in that it says that there won't be any money\nin this bill for Cambodia. Although there isn't any in it anyhow. It's\njust phoney.\nHK:\nOkay, I'll go along with that and I'll call Javits and tell him no deals.\nGH:\nRight.\nHK:\nOkay, thank you Al.\nGH:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Senator Javits\nJune 28, 1973 8:40 p.m.\nHK:\nHello, Jack. Jack we really can't go beyond, in good conscience,\nthe Mahon amendment and I just think that the Senate will we just\ncannot go beyond it--\nJ:\nThe August 15 ban to Cambodia\nHK:\nThat's right.\nJ:\nI see.\nHK:\nAnd you will should consider what is being done to the whole foreign\npolicy by this, it is not-Indochina -is really a very subsidiary issue.\nJ:\nHenry, I'm tip now and I keep --you know we keep working over the\npapers and so one and I assure you--\nHK:\nIf the Ehinese come to the cond usion that we have become irrelevant,\nthey'll turn sharp left. To try to get the Communists parties around\nworld away from the Russians. This then frees the Russians in Europe\nand the middle East and we really in fact when I come back I'd like\nto talk to you about how--what we can do to get some support for our\nforeign policy in a way that we haven't been successful before.\nJ:\nYou mean wen you come back from San Clemente.\nHK:\nYeh.\nJ:\nHanry, I'm leaving for Europe tomorrow night after this meeting.\nI'll be gone only a day- .-incidentally that Evalyn Rothchull is getting\nmarried- Evalyn is marrying in NY the daughter is a very\ngood friend of ours. So I'm going to be back Sunday for the Wedding.\nHK:\nNo, I didn't know. Isn't that nice. I'll be coming back about the 8th.,\nof July. Will you be in Washington?\nJ:\nI'll be back here on the 9th and 10th.\nK:\nLet's have breakfast shortly afterwards. I'd really like your counsel\non what can be done.\nJ:\nYou're very kind and I will be more than glad to do it and in the meantime\nI assure you I'll think this over most carefully.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nK:\nI know you will, and I appreciate the role you played at that foreign\nRelations Committee--you asked some tough questions, but they\nenabled me to bring out some good - -points which needed to be made.\nJ:\nHenry, incidentally you should take a look at what I did on Face the\nNation on this Russian jury issue too.\nK:\nRight, I will get that.\nJ:\nVery good. I'll see you shortly, and I'll worry over this.\nK:\nAnd all the best to you and Marion.\nJ:\nHm huh.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger - William Buckley\nJune 29, 1973\n9:10 a.m\nK: Hello.\nB: Hi, Doc.\nK: Hi, Bill.\nB: How are you my friend?\nK: OK, Bill.\nB: I'm imagine you're suffering a little bit. I'm sorry for you.\nK: Well, it's not one of the more glorious moments in American history.\nB: No, no, it sure isn't. From a hundred points of view.\nK: But, I think the reaction of the opponents is even more revolting than\nthe tawdry behavior of my ex-colleagues.\nB: Yeah, I wish it were easier for you to externalize that point.\nK: You know, to dismantle the country\nbecause of what was a collection\nof petty crimes, unworthy, and everything else, but still this is a dramatic\ndismantling of our foreign policy, of our Indochina policy\nthey know damn\nwell we are in the process of negotiating the end of Cambodia.\nB: That to me is truly shameful. And the remarkable thing is the total\ncollaspe of the Senate. It is absolutely corrupt. And\nK: And if this thing comes apart now we're going to have the Chinese move\nfar left to steal the Communist parties. We'll have a belicose Soviet policy\nand no public opinion to deal with it.\nB: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish certain things which aren't easy to say over\nthe phone\nbut I wish the guy in charge had a better means of communicating\nthis kind of thing to the Amer. people but unfortunately there is\nin our recent history a self-serving communication that make it kind of\ndifficult for people to feel that this is not an aggression.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nTELCON\nK: I know. But you know, history is going to have a hell of a time explaining\nhow it all happened.\nB: X Yeah, I know.\nK: And, for what.\nWhat I called you about yesterday was a relative ly\nminor thing which just shows you how attentatively I read the National Review.\nMentioning Halperin, it said that he is suing me for illegal wire tapping him\nand that he can stand to gain 75 thousand dollars\nB: I was surprised by that.\nK: First of all, the wiretapping was perfectly legal when it was done and\nit was authorized by the Attorney General, recommended by the Director\nof the FBI and approved by the President. And in the fourth month in a\nlaw and order Administration it wouldn't occur to anyone that this could\nbe illegal.\nB: Well, did you lawyers tell you that you can get the case thrown out of\ncourt?\nK: Yes.\nB: I will call down and find out what in the hell George will\nK: But they printed it as if the illegality was a fact, that he is suing me for\nillegally wiretapping him what he is suing me for, but process was declared\nillegal only in 1972\nB: After the fact.\nK: Yeah, even then it wasn't applied to National Security things.\nB: Yeah, right.\nK: Secondly, I can prove that what your people didn't know was that I didn't\norder the wiretapping of Haþerin- that this was done on his own by J. Edgar\nHoover because he had evidence that the man was a security risk.\nB: Well, have you answered yet?\nK: No, I will not answer.\nB: But you have to in the court.\nK: Well, the Justice Dept. believes it can get it dismissed on motion.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nB: Oh, I see, as a matter of law.\nK: Yeah, before it even gets to court.\nB: I'll get that straightened out, Doc.\nK: OK. It isn't one of the most major problems.\nB: No, No, but I will straighten it out. I was not on duty last week and\nwas rather surprised when I read it myself. Tell me this\nI was\nterribly sorry to miss your 50th birthday party.\nK: Well, I would have loved to have seen you.\nB: But, I was not present for different reasons other than those of Joe\nKraft. When will I see you again? Soon, I hope.\nK: I'll be back in about 10 days. I'd bostx love to see you. Maybe you\ncould come down that we ek.\nB: Good, I'll be down there and hold your hand.\nK: Well, we ought to discuss what to do about the country.\nB: You're god damn right. It couldn't have happened to a nicer country.\nK: You know, really, when you think of the reserves of dedication in this\ncountry\nit's really cruel.\nB: Yeah, I know.\nK: OK.\nB: Thanks, Henry.\nK: Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger - General Haig\nJune 29, 1973\n9:17 a. m.\nK: Hello?\nH: Yeah, Henry. Rogers is on the golf course SO he hasn't done any\nmischief yet but I got Elliott and I told him that this has got to be turned\noff. And he will be back in touch with us. It goes counter to discussions\nheld with the Soviets and would like complicity in double dealings to\nlaunch something now before we have their comments on\nwith\nK: Of course this will just trigger him into a talkless Gromyko. Well,\nhe's got to go. No matter what else happens.\nH: Yeah, well, anyway, he got the message and he will turn it off.\nK: Yeah. OK, fine.\nH: Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger - Len Garment\nJune 29, 1973\n9:18 a. m.\nK: Hello?\nG: Henry, how are you?\nK: OK.\nG? Two things. Dinitz called last night and wanted. he had be receiving\na number of representations from the community here and from back\nhome and wondered whether it would be desirable to sit down with you.\nHe will not be here the week that you are back. I told him I would speak\nwith you.\nK: Does he want to come out here?\nG: Well, he wants to talk about the specific issues. Of the\nK: Yeah, but where can he sit down with me?\nG: The question is whether it is necessary at this point. I think\nI\nsaid I would chat with you and perhaps I could, in the interim, before\nyou returned, sit down with a couple of the leaders, or in any event,\nor at least give an assurance when you are back here that you will chat\nwith them, informally.\nK: Right, that's correct.\nG: Why don't I tell him that and say that he should go away comfortable\nin the assurance that the matter is\nthat it is being dealt with in a\nrealistic and sensible fashion. And is not being ignored. Is that a fair\nstatement?\nK: That's a correct statement.\nG: And that I can tell him and Jack Steim that when you are back that I\nwill arrange a private meeting for three or four of them and yourself.\nK: Right. But I would like to have a chance to talk to Dobrynin first.\nG: All right.\nK: I mean, don't do it the first day back.\nG: But, sometime within the first few days that you are back.\nAnd I'll tell Dinitz that that will be done and xthat when he's back from\nNassau that the two of you can sit down then.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nK: OK.\n2\nG: Secondly, I assume\nwell, that the only question I had. How are\nwe doing out there? We're not doing too well back here.\nK: Well, we're not doing too well out here either in terms of Cambodia\nand so forth which is doing us unbelievable damage. This is going to\nwreck us with the Chinese.\nG: The atmosphere is very bad on Watergate.\nK: It is?\nG: And I don't know\nK: Well, why did we put out that statement the other day?\nG: It's a long and complicated story. One of those things that happen\nwhen there is not good working morale and no real line of command.\nK: It wasn't a very well thought thing.\nanyway to put it out while the\nguy is one the stand is nuts.\nG: It wasn't put out. It was delivered in a rather haphazard fashion by\nFred Bazardt without appropriate\nK: But, knowing these guys\nG: Well, I was not. this has become an exercise in super-secrecy and\nit is very complicated. I'll talk to you about this when we are together.\nThere is no point in burdening you with it.\nK: No, No.\n&. More problems of the same. People who are being secretive when they\ndon't need to be. And so there are bungles\nAnd the soviets have to be\nhandled with the most enormous sophistication so far as public opinion is\nconcerned and it is not available. And we're having more of the Colson\nmadness so that the atmosphere is getting rancid once again. It can be\nvery hurtful. That plus all the other head-knocking. On the more conventional\nfeatures.\nK: You think we're going to make it?\nG: Well, I think we could if there were better communication among ourselves.\nIt's going to be a very difficult time. When are you all coming back?\nK: It depends on the Cambodia thing.\nG: You may come back sooner?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nK: Yeah.\nG: Call the Congress back into session.\nK; Right.\nG: Well, all right, I just wanted to check one point with you.\nK: Right, Len, you can go ahead with it.\nG: Then we'll go ahead on that basis.\nK: Right.\nG: Bye bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nTaft Schreiber/Kissinger\n3:17 p.m. - 6/29/73\nK:\nHello.\nS:\nHenry, Taft.\nK:\nTaft, A how are you? I have still got that Foreign Minister here with\nmê. He's not in the room now but I've invited Danny Kaye now.\nS:\nHe's been prompted.\nK:\nOh, he has.\nS:\nHe's been told what we need, you understand. As the host it's not\neasy and also Herb told him we needed him for next Friday and he's\nhappy to do it. And then he said look, do you think Dr. Kissinger\nwould think it would be smart if I threw a cookout for them at my\nhouse. I said, well, when you see Henry Friday you discuss it with\nhim. Now the other reason I wanted to call you was to be sure that\nif you wanted any studio red carpet stuff - you wanted to send him\nhere to get him off your back for a couple days - or the French - all\nyou have to do is to tell Herb. And Herb will give it the same treat-\nment we gave Dobrynin. You don't have to be here.\nK:\nBut you can't do it on Saturday, can you?\nS:\nYeh, absolutely.\nK:\nYou can do it on Saturday.\nS:\nYeh, we don't have the stages open but we have enough action going\non that seeing the studio will be just as exciting.\nK:\nOh, good. Well, let me check with them.\nS:\nThat's right. So I didn't want to bother you because I'm leaving, but\nI just felt that you ought to know, that you could say \"Look, I'll take\ncare of everything.\" And the Chinese may like it and how much hand\nholding can you do?\nK:\nNow, tell me, do I have to have Danny Kaye. I've broken it up into\n3 tables. It just didn't seem to me safe enough to have one - you\nknow you need the right chemical combination for that. But do I\nhave Danny at the same table as the Foreign Minister?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nS:\nI don't think so. I don't think so.\nI think you should put those that\nyou think are the most important.\nI'll tell you if you're trying to\nmake the Foreign Minister have fun and enjoy himself, I'd put him\nat the table 'cause he'll have everybody laughing.\nK:\nYeh, I'll have him there.\nS:\nBecause he's really the Chinese guy\nK:\nOh, I'm crazy about Danny.\nS:\nAnd we told him that diplomatic affairs are very difficult for you and\nthat you especially needed help. Then if he feels he's doing a diplomatic\nmission he'll go overboard.\nK:\nGood.\nS:\nSo you decide and Steinberg is available for whatever you want. He'll\nbe by tonight sometime to just look in and see everything is all right.\nAnd everything is all set.\nK:\nWell, you're terrific, Taft. I'm sorry you can't be there.\nS:\nI am too, Henry, but have a wonderful time. One thing I am concerned\nabout - I heard more testimony today and I feel so badly for the President\nfor the things - the hearsay - the kind of things that they're saying and\nK:\nIt's unbelieveable !\nS:\nIt's unbelieveable and I just wish he'd - I hope he keeps his courage\nup because the Democrats are having a field day. They're setting the\nstage for an attempt to impeach.\nK:\nThat's one of the filthiest things that I've ever seen.\nS:\nYeh, it's immoral. It's immoral and I wanted you to know that we call\nyou know 20 of us everyday - and we sense how devious this is, how\nunfair to a great man, to a great Administration.\nK:\nDo you think Kalmbach will be all right?\nS:\nWell, I'm worried about it but although yesterday Dean started to crack.\nHe finally admitted. You see he had all along said that the money was\ngiven for silence; that Herb knew it; he told him. Yesterday under hard\nexamination by Gurney he admitted that maybe silence was never mentioned.\nNow if silence was mentioned and Herb raised the money for that, that's\na felony. If it was not mentioned it was just for bail and for sustenance,\nthat's not a felony.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nK:\nYeh.\nS:\nSo but Herb did tell me the story - as he related it there was never\nany silence because I asked him. I said, \"Herb was silence or\nthey were to shut up or anything ever mentioned. 11 He said,\n\"They\ncouldn't. Dean couldn't say that to me. I'd have kicked him in the\nhead. That's a felony.' \"\nK:\nAnd Kalmbach is after all an experienced guy.\nS:\nYes a very experienced guy. And I think he has a credibility and I\nthink when he gets on this. Also has already said the President,\nas far as he knew, never knew about this. But this looks like a little\nman who is trying to glory in the spotlight.\nK:\nThat's right.\nS:\nAnd I'm just saying this so if the President wonders what his friends\nare thinking, we haven't been convinced of a damn thing except that\nhe is being unfairly attacked.\nK:\nYou're great.\nS:\nOK, Henry, I⁸ll talk to you when I get back from Europe.\nK:\nWhen will that be.\nS:\nI'll be in New York on the 14th and 15th and16th of July.\nK:\nGive me a call.\nS:\nI'll call you fromthere.\nK:\nTerrific. And many thanks for everything.\nS:\nOK.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nGeorge Sherman/Kissinger\n4:22 p.m. - 6/29/73\nK:\nHello.\nS:\nDr. Kissinger. I wondered did you see this item on the wire today\nfrom Hanoi about (They were cut off at this point and the call was\nreplaced\nK:\nHello.\nS:\nI'm not being lucky today.\nK:\nWell, I just hung up when you mentioned Hanoi. When you want to\ntalk to me about enemies I don't want to listen to you.\nS:\nYou have your own enemies list, do you?\nK:\nYou should see - the trouble is about a third of these enemies are\npersonal friends of mine and I'm in their houses.\nS:\nAre you getting the message?\nK:\nWhere does that leave me?\nS:\nExactly. I'm waiting for the real list to come out. Listen, Henry\nK:\nAll I want you to know Sherman is be careful because I may put you on\na list. There are some lists around that haven't surfaced yet.\nS:\nThat's the greatest status symbol going in Washington you realize.\nMary McGrory's floating on a cloud.\nK:\nI didn't ever think Mary McGrory was an enemy. (Laughs) She's\neven on my enemy list.\nS:\nOh, your enemy list. Anyway this is a story from the Argente French\nPress which for the first time says that Sihanouk and Company or they\nsay Drunc of Sihanouk is willing to negotiate on a coalition government\nincluding not Lon Nol but neutralists.\nK:\nGeorge, I can't go into details but I've been trying to tell you and anyone\nwho would listen for a month, that we think there is a chance if Congress\ndoesn't now knock all the props out from under us.\nS:\nIn other words, you put some store in this report?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nYes.\nS:\nIt says Pen Nute (sp. ?) is going to go to Phnom Penh. Is that in\naccord with anything you know?\nK:\nThat I do know about. That seems unlikely to me.\nS:\nAnd also it s pointed out that Sihanouk is in Rumania, isn't he?\nK:\nHe's on the way back soon I know.\nS:\nI mean wouldn't it be rather unusual for this thing to surface while\nhe's away from the area, or not? I mean people I talk to are reading\na lot of sinister things into this thing since Hanoi and the insurgents\nwent over to get this thing out before Sihanouk gets back.\nK:\nI do not know that Pen Nute is going to Phnom Penh and I don't believe\nthat.\nS:\nWell, can you give me any idea where we stand on this thing. I want\nto write something for Sunday on it.\nK:\nIt's essentially what I told you last Monday. We think we have the\nmakings of a negotiation. I don't want to give you all the components\nbut I gave you the basic factors.\nS:\nI gathered from what you said and also what you said in the briefing\nthat these major components are Moscow, Peking and Washington.\nK:\nAnd Hanoi.\nS:\nAnd Hanoi. Well, now the other thing is I gathered from coming home\non the radio that all the major airports - the four major airports in\nChina have been closed. Do you know anything about that?\nK:\nNo, that I haven't heard.\nS:\nI hadn't heard it either and it was on Lowell Thomas.\nK:\nDoes that make it true?\nS:\n(Laughs) But anyway you hadn't heard anything about it?\nK:\nNo.\nS:\nMaybe they're closing them because they heard you're going to come.\nK:\nThey heard I was going to come from you. I mean you people misunderstood\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nwhat I said. There is no present plan for me to come. The only\nthing is I can't deny that as categorically as the Chou visit just\nbased on my record. There is no current date fixed.\nS:\nRight, but I was told by someone last night in contact with the Chinese\nthat it was likely to be in early August rather than July. Now do you\nmean you haven't discussed dates with them at all?\nK:\nWe don't have any precise discussions.\nS:\nBut would it be fair to assume your trip to Peking would be tied in\nwith this Cambodian thing if you went.\nK:\nWell, it's a topic we have always discussed.\nS:\nHow'd the thing with the French go today?\nK:\nHow can anyone resist when they meet me - personally agree to anything.\nNo, really George, it went the way threxyx we planned. You know I'm\ngetting boring on the subject. What we have to do now is to get an\nunderstanding in principle on some details on substance with the French\nand we had apreliminary very substantive talk.\nS:\nYou figure the French are really the whole - I mean if you can get\nsomething worked out with the French the rest will just fall in line?\nK:\nWell, the rest seem to agree substantially. But I'm seeing the NATO\nCouncil tomorrow?\nS:\nIs the President going to see them as well?\nK:\nYes.\nS:\nOk, then just one other thing on this Cambodian thing, Henry. I talked\nto the Ambassador here and he seemed to be suggesting that youre\nrapidly reaching a point where the insurgents say that they will negotiate\nbut they won't stand for Lon Nol.\nK:\nWho said that?\nS:\nThe Ambassador.\nK:\nWhich Ambassador?\nS:\nCambodian Ambassador here in Washington. That you see it appears\nthat their side, the insurgents or Sihanouk anyway, are saying we are\nwilling to negotiate a coalition government but we won't stand still\nto have Lon Nol in the thing. Whereas Phnom Penh is saying that we\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n4\nwon't have anything to do with Sihanouk. Is that the trend of the\nnegotiation?\nK:\nI can't go into the details.\nS:\nBut I mean would that be a fair statement of the positions at the moment?\nJust simply put.\nK:\nI think that's - that has some of the elements but I really don't want\nto go into it.\nS:\nIn other words, it's a question of trying to neutralize personalities.\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nOK. Good. I hope you're having a good time.\nK:\nI'm having a good time. I Tell you some of your friends are missing you.\nS:\nI would love to have heard the words that flew around.\nK:\nAmong your friends?\nS:\nRight.\nK:\nI mean the Hollywood contingent. I'm going to bring them to my press\nconferences at the White House from now on.\nYou, I've seen you\npolite one time out of ten, but I've never seen Lisagor polite.\nS:\nYou know Peter has his moments.\nK:\nNever with White House officials.\nS:\nYou know all you have to do is call him cynical and it sets him back\nfor three days.\nK:\nActually in all seriousness I admire him. He has great integrity and\nthat sort of cynicism no one can object to and it's never personal.\nS:\nI agree with you. I have tremendous admiration for him because insofar\nas what the press should stand for - I think he stands for.\nK:\nThere's no question. He's sometimes painful but he isn't there to please\nus. He's never unfair.\nS:\nOK. Good talking to you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Khan/Mr. Kissinger\n6/30/73 1:30 p.m.\nHK:\nHow are you?\nAK:\nFine, how are you?\nHK:\nOkay.\nAK:\nThere are two things that I wanted you to look into please.\nIn connection with the visit of President Bhutto here,\nI received a request from President Bhutto day béfore yesterday\nsaying that the time provided for the talks between the two\nPresident is only on the day of the arrival for about 1 and 1/2\nhour and President Bhutto felt that there would be quite a lot\nleft over which may not be covered in this and he requested that\nsome time also be set aside on the next day of the visit.\nHK:\nWe'll do our best. I'll have to check with the President but I'm\npretty sure we can do it.\nAK:\nThank you very much and the other thing was that when the program\nwas being discussed I had made a request on behalf of my President\nfor President Nixon to accept a return invitation for dinner, but I\nwas told that this was not possible, in the meantime I have again\nreceived a reminder if this matter could be reviewed.\nHK:\nI think that's going to be very difficult because if we do it, then he'd\nhave to do it all the time.\nAK:\nWell could you have a second look at it.\nH:\nYes.\nAK:\nThen are you expected back here about the 9th?\nHK:\nYes, I'm back on the 8th, why don't you and I meet on the 9th and\nreview the whole thing.\nAK:\nI would be very grateful if you could give me time on the 9th\nHK:\nGood let's do that.\nAK:\nAnd would you kindly look at the setting of additional time for talks\non the next day?\nHK:\nRight, you can count on it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nAK:\nWe have already made the request through protocol and they must\nhave sent it to the WH and will be coming up for consideration.\nHK:\nRight. Nice to talk to you.\nAD:\nThank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified."
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