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    "ocrText": "DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]\nDOCUMENT\nDOCUMENT\nNUMBER\nTYPE\nSUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS\nDATE\nRESTRICTION\n|\nTakon\nHAK and Ambassidor Ramsbotham (219).)\n6/7/74\nB\nDECLASSIFIED per Hr. 2/3/2016\nFILE GROUP TITLE\nBOX NUMBER\nKissinger Transcripts - Takphone Conversations\n26\nFOLDER TITLE\n19747-8Jn-@\nRESTRICTION CODES\nA. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.\nE. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or\nB. National security classified information.\nfinancial information.\nC. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's\nF. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law\nrights.\nenforcement purposes.\nD. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy\nG. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.\nor a libel of a living person.\nH, Withdrawn and returned non-historical material.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nDECLASSIFIED GPO; 1989-235-084/00024\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nNA 14021 (4-85)\nDOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]\nDOCUMENT\nDOCUMENT\nNUMBER\nTYPE\nSUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS\nDATE\nRESTRICTION\n1\nTelcon\nHAK and Ambassador Ramsbotham (2pp.)\n6/7/74\nB\nFILE GROUP TITLE\nBOX NUMBER\nKissinger Transcripts - Telephone Conversations\n26\nFOLDER TITLE\n(9747-8Junc @\nRESTRICTION CODES\nA. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.\nE. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or\nB. National security classified information.\nfinancial information.\nC. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's\nF. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law\nrights.\nenforcement purposes.\nD. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy\nG. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.\nor a libel of a living person.\nH. Withdrawn and returned non-historical material.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential I ibrary\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION DECLASSIFIED 1989-235-084/00024\nNA 14021 (4-85)\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nRon Ziegler/The Secretary\nFriday, June 7 [1974]\n1:30\nZ: To say that I thought you were very xjoxxx gutsy yesterday.\nK: Aren't you nice.\nZ: Very proud of you. You know what is like to have the SOB\nscreaming in the room, but you were really gutsy in it.\nAnd just let me tell you in XIXXXXIX my view the impact was that\nin a way was very\nK: Really.\nZ: Of course, for heavens sake, the Secretary of State who has\njust returned from the Middle East. You know following movement\nof historic XXX proportions the trip to hold his first press conference\nto have maniacs like that screaming stude stuff like that. Just is\nnot tolerated by people. I think I know what I am talking about on\nthat, but on any event.\nK: But they won't rest now until they have made me a Watergate\nfigure.\nZ: Well, no they won't. You watch. You could tell how it was played\ntoday. I wouldn't concern yourself with that. I thought you handled\nit well and it was very gutsy of you.\nK: I appreciate it Ron.\nX:\nZ: Okay.\nK: Bye\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nGov. Rockefeller/Secretary Kissinger\nFriday, June 7, 1974\n2:32PM\nK: Yes\nR: Nelson. I took the liberty of calling back because after lunch\nI got Claire Luce aside to talk to her about that xpuestionxx\nyesterday's press conference to see if she reacted the way I did.\nShe is a 100% in the same reaction namely to desex descend our\nneed as a nation to protect our security is a must. So she was\ntotally in xxxx agreement but from the point of national security\nand from your own posture, and I just thought I would let you know\nthat because she is a pretty shrewdwoman.\nK: I appreciate that Well\nR: That's all I have.\nK: Well, it was as always very good to see you. Muskie asked me\nabout it this morning at my hearing.\nR: He did?\nlagally\nK: Yes and in a nice way so I could make a rather strong statement\nsaying it was legal, it was leak conducted and not only legally but\nproperly and it concerned only national security.\nR: And was that in an open hearing?\nK: In an open hearing.\nR: It was ? I just think the posture of you cending the need\nfor protection of our security, is a very powerful one. Okay, I just\nwanted to be sure having taken X sure a strong position this morning\nthat I had a reaction of someone who is public relations reaction who\nI trust and hers are awfully smart.\nK: Well I appreciate it.\nR: You're great.\nK: Thank you Nelson, it was great to see you.\nR: Well, thanks so much.\nK: Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAmbassador Dinitz/Secretary Kissinger\nFriday, June 7, 1974\n2:42PM\nD: Mr. Secretary.\nK: X Cur direct line seems to be out.\nD: Ch, I didn't know this.\nI glxxxxx guess some of our XXIXXX friends are working on it.\nK: I guess so.\nD: Mr. Secretary, the reason I\nyou was that I xxxx had\nfixed a meeting with my friend that I told youxaboxxtx about.\nHe called me yesterday. Our friend without whom we cannot\nhave an arrangment in the Middle East.\nK: Ch, When?\nD: He called me yestaxx yesterday and today I ok'd for n him a\nmeeting on Wednesday at 4 pm. for tea at his Embassy.\nK: Ch good, and no longer lunch.\nD: Know he wanted lunch on Monday but I couldn't do it because\nI would be at the National Press Club.\nSo I suggesated Wednesday, and Wed., he is busy for lunch. $\nSo we had tea, I think it iis better.\nK: Good\nD: The less I eat the better off I am\nK: You keep me informed.\nD: Yes. You will be away already,\nK: But you will see ix me in Xsxxxxx Israel.\nD: Yes. I will see XXX you in Israel and I will let you know.\nK: Good. Wonderful. I will see you tomorrow.\nD: I am looking forward to it.\nK: Good. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nHenry Brandon/Secretary Kissinger\nFriday, June 7, 1974\n2:45PM\nK: Hello.\nB: Henry.\nK: How areyou? How nice to hear from your.\nB: Well I haven't been able to congratulate you yet in person, but\nwhat I wanted to say is that you shouldn't let mean little\npeople who think that nothing else exists but Watergate exists in\nthe world interfere with your mood and do them the honor of letting\nthem upset you.\nK: Aren't you nice. You really are very nice.\nB: I was really outraged\nK: Well it was not a\nB: You know in this week. Henry I know that you have a lot to do, but when\nyou come back I hope we'll get together.\nK:\nK: I would love to see you and Muffie and it is really terribly sweet\nof you to call.\nB: Well that is all that I want to say, we are very concerned, Muffie\nand I.\nK: Well you are\nB: Good luck on the next trip.\nK: Thank you.\nB: All right.\nK: Bye.\nB: Bye, Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nJackStevenson/Secretary Kissinger\nFriday, June 7, 1974\n2:45 PM\nS: Yes sir.\nK: How are you Senator?\nS: Fine, thank you very much. Thank you very much for calling.\nI had hoped I would have a chance to see you before the Law of the Sea\nConference starts the 20th. But I guess in view of your schedule,\nthat would be very difficult for you.\nK: Well, ugh, I am going away with the President again, and I am\npractically drowning in work.\nS: Sure. Well I think bascially the main points that I wanted to\nmake were that I think that whatever our instructions, I think that\nyou have received or will be receiving recommendations in that\nrespect from\nthere certainly maybe some situations some in\nparticular areas where we will meet to go somewhat further in the\nhopes of getting to near an agreement this summer if possible.\nK: But could you sum these issues up in a memo for me.\nS: Yes. They are and I will and it may be in the course of the summer\nthe most practical thing for me to do is come home and talk to you at\nthat point when the situation is clearer than it is now.\nK: Good, but I would appreciate a summary memo now of everything.\nS: Certainly, we will do that.\nK: Good.\nS: And the other point I did want to make very briefly is that we are now\nworking very closely with the Soviets, who have been most cooperative\nI was in Moscow 10 days ago and it maybe that this will come up xnd\nin the course of your trip, but I think it would be very helpful if you\ncould indicate. We appreciated this way.\nK: Yes, but you would have to mtell me what the issues XXXXTXT are,\nI can't just give a general endorsement.\nS: Sure, sure. All right we will get that to you in a memo too.\nK: Good I would appreciate.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Simon/Secretary Kissinger\nFriday, June 7, 1974\n3:00PM\nK: How did things go ?\nS: I thought they went absolutely super. I was sorrry that you couldn't\nmake the luncheon out at my house, it was great, b we ate out in the\nterrace and they ate it up. But we really filled their plate with more\nthan they could handle.\nK: That is much better than the oppositie.\nS: Absolutely. And they are going back with a great enthusiasm.\nI guess most of them go back tomorrow morning. Alanie is going to\nmove out to my house tomorrow and spend the weekend with me.\nK: Ch, terrific. Amonie satisfied?\nS: Oh perfectly and SO is Nasar. It really is super. And I even sold\nthem on the idea of investing in their funds and they want ** to do it\noutside the context of this. They want to do it direct, Treasury\nto their Xix Fiance people, which suits us perfectly.\nK; Good.\nS: So everything is just perfect. They got so excited this morning\nat one point in the meeting that they are sending their chief petroleum\neconomist over here next week and he is going to stay as long as possible.\nI was giving him all this business on the nationalization of profits.\nWhy they wanted to get into oil prices, oil supply and demand.\nK: Well that was what I was hoping.\nS: We had quite a discussion on that.\nK: I was hoping they would come to that on their own.\nS. And they did, and I gave them the whole pitch. Then Amonie and I\nrode out to my hhouse together with Akins and with gave it to them some\nmore. We really had just a grand time, and I think it is a great succes\nHenry.\nK: Good. Well that is my impression too from the dinners and everything else.\nS: I just wanted to give this you this before you met with Prince Fahd.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK: Thank you.\nS: So you can have little meat the XXXXXXX commique won't tell everything.\nBut we have more cooperative a efforts coming and I'm serious\nK: I think commique is good enought.\nS: I have even read it yet. I'm so many definitive directions that I think\nyou will be pleased. It is going to make your job easier and that is what\nwe tried to do.\nK: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.\nS: Great, Henry.\nK: Bye.\nS: Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAmbassador Ramsbotham/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 7, 1974\n3:18 PM\n(Missed first part)\nR:\nit says to tell you that President Nixon decided to visit the North Atlantic\nCouncil in Brussels on his way to Moscow, the Prime Minister will be glad to\nattend the meeting.\nK: Very good. Schmidt took the same position as you know.\nR; He has, yes. Good.\nK: I think that alone with will make it worthwhile from our point.\nR: Anyhow that's very firm and clear.\nK: Good, well many thanks.\nR: How did you get on with Fahd? Did you get any joy out of any of the questions\nwith Fadh.\nK: Oh we did extremely well.\nR: You did.\nK: Oh, yes.\nR: He's take the view, the useable view of the -- did you\nprices to him at all?\nK: We did it in an indirect way. But hex they're sending an oil economist over\nhere to discuss the whole problem of oil prices.\nR: I see. Was Yamani forward or was he\nK: Very forward.\nR: He was. Because I remember you telling me one time he wasn't clear where\nhe stood in the\n.\nK: Oh, he was not very high in the\nbut he took a good position.\nR: In his remarks?\nK: Yes.\nDECLASSIFIED\nE.O. 13526, Section 3.5\nNL1009-50/12538 Per Hr. 2/3/2016\nBy RJMH NARA, Date 11/14/2016\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nRamsbotham - page 2\nR: Good. Cause they're coming on to London you see and the Prime Minister\nis seeing them.\nK: My strong advice is not to hit them directly on oil prices.\nR: Not to hit them on oil prices.\nK: Not directly.\nR: And to concentaate on things that we're also interested in which is the helpful\ntechnological exchanges.\nK: Yes. Although you know at this stage they're -- they may be ready for oil\nprices disxxix discussion. We spent some time with them this morning.\nR: Oh, I see. So we'll play it like that, but they might have already had that\nidea taken a stage further by your talks.\nK: I think so.\nR: That is good advice, I can pass that on.\nK: Certainly.\nR: Alright.\nK: Thank you.\nRXX\nXXN\nK: I hope Callaghan would come too, of course on the 26th.\nR: I shall certainly make that clear.\nK: You can't have me\nR: I would have thought that\nK: Without my colleague.\nR: I would have thought that would be so.\nK: Be just a point where heads of governments take serious decision - what\nis going to happen to Foreign Ministers.\nR: We have to do other jobs there.\nFND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nRonald Reagan/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 7, 1974\n3:30 PM\nR: Congratulations.\nK: Thank you Ron. How nice to hear from you.\nR: Well, I wanted to do if for a long time. What kind of bra breakfast cereal do\nyou eat?\nK: Why?\nR: That sounds like a back-breaking schedule that is just inhuman.\nK: That's true.\nR: That XXX must have been really something.\nK: Oh, it was exhausting.\nR: Well, it was a very wonderful thing, I can tell you that. And I also had to call\nto ask you about something. I've put it off calling knowing you must when you come\nhome of literally have to go into a de-compression chamber. But I had a call from\na\nporxinek prominent gentleman out here with Pacific lighting - a Jack Miller.\nAnd they're deeply involved with Indonesia. When I was there when that natural\ngas thing was signed in Jakarta on that last trip and he wanted to know if I could\ncall and ask if he could call your office and if he could make an appointment. It\nhas to do with our country and natural gas and Indonesia. I did gather when I\nwas out there at the signing where the Japanese got the\nXexx K: Yes.\nR: The American businessmen who were there expressed to me that with some of\nour agencies in Washington, part of our problems were excessive red tape. Now\nI don't know whether that's what he wants to talk about.\nK: I don't question that.\nR: But I don't know whether that's what he wants to talk about or not , but would it\nbe alright if I told Jack Miller it would be alright that he could call in regard to\nsee you?\nK: I can't do it before the middle of July. I'm going off with the President\ntomorrow.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nReagan - page 2\nR: Oh, well I'll tell him that sometime after the Middle of July.\nK: Right.\nR: If your secretary will just remember the name Jack Miller.\nK: Right.\nR: Alright, but\nK:x How are things going with you?\nR: Well, fine, I think. Same old battle out here.\nK: I can' imagine.\nR: But we were all thrilled by that, Henry, that was a very wonderful thing.\nK: Well, you're a good friend. Let me know when you come east.\nR: I sur e will. Hell of a way to treat a new bride.\nK: That is the truth.\nR: OK, well Nancy gives here your best.\nK: Thank you, give her my best regards.\nR: I sure will. Alright.\nK: Bye.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSenator Sparkman/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 7, 1974\n3:56 PM\nS: I want to welcome you back.\nThank you. I hope the reports I read our correct that you're\ngoing to take the Chairmanship.\nS: I look forward to it.\nK: I look forward to working very closely with you.\nS: The same here and I want to commend you on the tremendous job you did\nover there. Are you rested? I don't see how you can be.\nK: I m getting there.\nS: I apologize for calling you about this but a bunch of people who operate in\nmy state asked me to do it. I understad that they have asked for an appointment\nwith you. I don't know whether it's any special time or not. They're a bunch\nof aluminum expexx companies. There's a man named John Harper, representing\nAlcoa; Richard Reynolds, representing Reynolds metal company, Cornell\nFeyer, representing Kaiser Aluminum Company, John Place, representing\nAnaconda Copper Company and then two companies which I don't have the\nnames of the representati ves is Alcan, I think that's a Canadian Aluminum\nCompany and then the Revere, I think is a copper company. All of these\noperate in my state, I believe, but anyhow they asked me to call and just recomme\nthat they be given an appointment with you for which I understrad they applied.\nI know nothing about, I won't make it clear, I know nothing about what they\nwant, but I presume it has to do with trade.\nK: I would suspect maybe bauxite.\nS: Oh, maybe.\nK: That's what I would suspect.\nS: That's probably what it is. And as I say, I know nothing about, they XX\ndidn't tell me, but they did tell me that they had asked for a chance to sit down\nand talk with you and he asked me if I would put in a word for them and that's\nall I'm doing.\nK: OK. I appreciatedxhis and I will do my very best to see them.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSparkman - page 2\nS: Fine. Let me say I had a call a couple of days ago, no, it was just\nyesterday, I believe, from, I believe he was an NBC man or maybe a\nnewpaper,\nK: *** (Valerioni).\nS: Yes. And he wanted to quiz me about my and Casyx Casey's checking into\nyou, remember that?\nK: Oh, yes.\nS: I suppose, I don't know, it's a matter of wire tapping. I told him the wh ole\nthing was on the record and it is, there in the Committee, that we had gone\ninto it XXXXX thoroughly, we had seen the transcript of **** the FBI papers\nand that we found that you had nothing to do with anybody's wire tapping and\nI explained to him just what you did to us that Hoover asked you for a list of\nnames of those who were privy to the secrets ofthe NSC and that you gave\nus, when you were connected with the XXX NSC, and that you gave him those\nnames. You did not know what he wanted it for or anything else. So, he seemed\nsatisfied. I don't know whether it can out or anything or not. I wanted you to\nknow about it.\nK: I appreciate it, when was this, today?\nS: No, it was about two days ago.\nK: I appreciate this very much.\nS: He seemed satisfied. I told him that Casey and I went into it thoroughly\nand we were convinced you hadxxxxx at no time had anything to do with anybody's\nwire tapping and didn't even know about them.\nK: Well, I appreciate this.\nS: OK.\nK: Txxaxix Thank you,\nS: Fine, it's good to talk with you and continuing good luck.\nK: Thank you.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAdlai Stevenson/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 7, 1974\n4:00\nK: How are you, Senator?\nS: I should ask how are you.\nK: I hope you realize that as a result of my putting in a call to you I've already\nhad a half hour discussion on the Law of the Sea. This man in our department who\nhandles the Law of the Sea is also called Stevenson. Since my secretary cannot\nimagine that I wouldn refer a State Department person to you.\nS: I can't imagine that either.\nK: When he started on the Law of the Sea I couldn't imagine what had possessed\nyou.\nS: Well, I won't start on the Law of the Sea, Mr. Secretary, is there something\nelse I should start on.\nK: I think we both know the subject. I wanted to talk to you about that bill on the\ncredits.\nS: Well, I can give you a thumb nail xxxx sketch if you like of where we stand.\nK: Yes.\nS: I'm sure I don't have to tell you that it is very difficult business at the moment\nof trying to put together a position that will command the majority in the Senate.\nWe are embattled on both sides, just now, organized labor is up in arms and there's\na great deal of X opposition growing IX on the right. So what I have tried to\ndo starting with negotiations with Scoop Jackson is to come to terms on a proposal\nthat will probably make nobody SXXXX completed satisfied but might head off our\ngreater problems, dangers on the floor. I haven't gotten much beyond\nJackson at the moment but he is where it stands. We would continue the authority\nfor the Exim Bank. Four years is requested, we'd make it three with one year\nfor continued credits in the Soviet Union and the Eastern European countries\nexcept Xugusal Yugoslavia and Romania. This takes the precedent we have in the\nlegislation. Then impose a subceiling on -- within an overall authorization\nthat would come out pretty close to 30 billion dollars. A subceiling for additional\ncredits in the Soviet Union and that is somewhat tentatively is $300 million,\nwhich is slightly in excess of the rate at which they've been granted during this\nfirst year.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK: You mean $300 million a year?\nS: $300 million before you have to come back to Congress for further\nauthorization. There would be two parts. One year authorization, or\ncredits in the Soviet Union and separately a $300 million additional subceiling;\nthat's $300 million in addition to what is already or would be outstanding as\nof the effective days. You would have I think outstanding $270 -$280\nmillion. So you'd be up pretty close to $300 million. Then because of the\nK: And on top of that there's a $300 million?\nS: That's the overall for the bank, worldwide. Overall for the Bank is $30 billion\nbut within the overall authorization would be a subauthorization for creditS in the\nSoviet Union and all Communist countries except Yugoslavia and Romania. And\nthat is a subceiling which would be the outstanding credits of somewhere in the\nneighborheod of $270 million plus $300 million.\nK: So at no time could there be more than $600 million outstanding.\nS: Thereabouts--until you get further authorization from the Congress. Now there's\none other, well there are a couple of others, but there's one other point which I\nthink would be of particular interest to you. The concern here is not just with\nthe credits in the Soviet Union; it's very largely with the whole through the notion\nof 3% or 7% loans anywhere in the world at a time when prime rate is up 7 1/2 %\nat home and with no so much the routine commercial transactions as the so-called\nprojects, the developments loans and the danger that they will involve us\npolitically and in unforeseen consequences will have adverse impacts on US\nlabor or the tentative position of US businesses. Some of them are just ad hoc\nsituations that are rankling here. $150 million financing of say cotton for example\nto Japan. So to respond to that concern not so much about the routine commercial\ntransactions, but about the big ones and the big ones that lead to the development\nof production facilities abroad, competition for our manufacturers, adverse impact\non labor and so on. We would also require that any guarantee in excess of\n$50 million, any single transaction in excess of $50 million be accompanied by\nthis in anywhere in the world, you don't single out the Soviet Union, the only time\nthe Soviet Union gets singled out is XII next to that subauthorization, that subceiling\nwhich I mentioned. Anywhere in the world there's a credit proposed to be\nauthored by the bank of more than $50 million, it would have to be accompanied\nby a Presidential finding that it's in the national interest with/specific some attention\nto the competitive consequences, the labor impact, short supply situations,\nmaybe a couple of other areas now. That in the past at least wouldn't pick up\nmore than 11 or 12 deals a year. Those 11 or 12 deals or whatever they are\nin the future would after the Presidential finding be subject to a Congressional\nveto if one-third of the members of either house signed a petition, brought\nthe issue to a vote and the credit was disapproved,\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-3-\nK: Within what time period?\nS: I think it's 30 days after the Presidential finding; I'm afraid I'm a little vague\non that. I think we were figuring a total of 60 days; 30 days for the Presidential\nfinding and then 30 days after the Presidential finding after which the Congress\nwould have to act. Now that sums up in a rather general way I think where we stand\nat the moment with Jackson; it may be 60 days for the Congress; I'm afraid I\njust can't remember.\nK: Would your position change any if we were making some progress with\nJackson on his own amendment?\nS: We, I don't know which amendment of his you\nK: The Jackson Vaniney.\nS: Yeah. I don't think Jackson Vanick amendment has anything to do with this.\nK: I agree with you.\nS: And, I don't know where you stand with him. He's been quite willing from\nthe beginning to leave it out of the exim bank legislation and I think I know his\nreasons.\nBut\nthis\nproposal\nto\nI started work at this originally in the hopes\nthat it could be a way of side-tracking Jackson-Vanick but in the interim\nthe concern has been growing greatly in the Congress with not only those\nof the Soviet Union well just with loans. Partly because of the very largely\nbecause of the 6 - 7% interest rates as opposed to the high rates abroad, but\nalso with ad hoc situations--it's cotton in Japan or it's drilling equipment\nfor Iran or the sale of Boeings to Japan--oh, one of a kind of commodities\nthey have to buy anyway and a growing feeling that we better start exercising\na little oversight here and not just give this bank/$30 billion dollar blank check.\nFor a veriety of reasons, some of which are political but most of which ha ve\nplenty to do xx with Jackson-Vanik.\nK: That ceiling of $300 million in addition to what's already outstandings\napplies only to the Soviet Union?\nS: Yes.\nK: You didn't lump Poland in with it?\nS: That I'm quite sure, I wish I could, I'm 99% sure and I'd have to doublecheck\njust to give you a 100% answer. That applies just to the Soviet Union. I'm\ntrying to think what it is that should bring in the Eastern Europeans. Yes.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-4-\nI'll tell you what it was. Here's where I've got my notes now in front of me.\nThe one-year authorization. I waid there was a one-year authorizationa nd\na subseiling. The subceiling of what's outstanding plus $300 million would\napply just to the Soviet Union. The one-year authorozation as opposed to\nthe three-year authorization for all other countries, would apply to the\nSoviet Union to all Communist countries, except Romania and Yugoslavia.\nK: So you'd have to authorize it again next year.\nS: Yes.\nK: Then wwh at's the sense of putting a ceiling on it? Oh to keep us from going\ncrazy this year.\nwas\nS: Well, it wasn't\nthere are those concerns but therexis/also the feelling,\nAt least I've had the feeling, that maybe this would be helpful to you. I saw\nsome testimony of yours, I think it was in the Senate Finance Committee,\nand in response to a question by Senator Nelson which seemed to indicatexthow\nyou felt, you didn't commit yourself, but you indicated that it might not be\nunhelpful to you if you were in the position of having to say that either because\nof the one year or gecause of the $300, I think he was talking about one year,\nI don't think he was mentioned the subceiling, if you were in a position to say\nthat you had to satisfy the Congress.\nK: Now tell me, is this $300 million credits that can be extended or the amount\nof money that can actually be made available?\nS: I'm not sure, frankly, we've addressed **atourselves to that distinction.\nIf you wanted to\nK: You'd be (inaudible) in terms of what would be drawn.\nS: Yes. Well, I think we might too.\nK: Because in that case we could probably give\nflx\nslightly more credit\nbecause not all of them would be made available in that year.\nS: But you'd be in a difficult position; you'd have to assume that you could\nget the authorization for the subsequent increasement. I don't know how the\nbank would like that. I think we could go either way on that and none of this\nis set in concrete.\nK: Let me talk to Bill Caseyx about that, may I?\nS: By all means. Do you have any initial reactions to the package, without\ncommitting yourself. I'm getting under the gun, here.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-5-\nK: Well, Casey, of course, doesn't want that $50 million for the whole world;\nhe just wants it -- if it has to be applied, applied to the Communistxx countries.\nI can see your reasoning in not wanting to be that discriminatory.\nS: Well the considerations are the same and also I didn't want to single out\nthe Soviet Union any more than necessary.\nK: Well it's not as bad it as I was afraid it would be.\nS: Well I'm afraid it could be worse, it could get worse than this unless we\nput together a package and really get some support.\nK: Let me think about it; it doesn't look unjanageable.\nS: Well, that's encouraging.\nK: Can I call you over the weekend?\nS: By all means, no--Sunday I will be in Illinois. I'll be back late.\nK: Will you be here tomorrow?\nS: I will be ixrx here tomorrow-- in and out of my house.\nK: Good, I'll try to call you tomorrow.\nS: Ok.\nK: Thank you.\nS: Thank you.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nGeneral Haig/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 7, 1974\n4:20 PM\nH: Yes, Henry.\nK: Al, I had arranged while I was in Saltzburg to drop over to\nGarden and\nsee the German Foreign Minister.\nH: Yes.\nK: Whom I had to cancel out three times and who's been dying to see me.\nI'm assuming it isn't going to cause any heartburn.\nH: Well, I don't think so, I hope not. I wouldn't see how it could. We've got\na full day with nothing to do.\nK: I have arranged for Schmidt and Wilson to meet him in Brussels on the 26th.\nOn the way to Moscow.\nH: Right. OK.\nK: And to sign the NATO declaration there.\nH: Let me run this XXXX by him tomorrow.\nK: Well, it's practically prozen, you can run it by him\nH: I mean in a sense of\nK: Don't give him any options.\nH: That's right. Packing it up,= you know, I mean he has to know, he can know\nit in the midst of our going over the SX schedule. I'll just routinely\nK: Just put in on the Germans.\nH: Yes, exactly. And the purpose is, therefore, to be sure we have a good\nBase Boosss Brussels thing too.\nK: Exactly. And that we couldn't get Schmidt there because then XXXXX there\nwouldn't have been a Brussels thing.\nH: Right, exactly. OK. Fine Henry.\nK: OK.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nGeneral Scowcroft/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 7, 1974\n4:33 PM\nto get\nK: Brent do we have a scheduled of what would be required korx/me baxx back\nhere in time for the Ottawa dinner?\nS: In time for the Ottawa dinner. Which will be when, no I can get you one\nvery shortly.\nK: About 8:00. It's beyond the capacity of my XXX office here.\nS: 8:00 PM, Ottawa time, for the dinner.\nK: So I would have to get in about 6:30.\nS: Be in XX by, say, 6:00. I'll get it to you very shortly.\nK: And also do you happen to know what clothes we need on the trip. I've got\nabout 10, 00 muscle bound idiots over here.\nS: I don't yet\nK: They're writing book on the subject, which I get Sunday night.\nS: You mean in terms of black tie and so on?\nK: Right.\nS: I'll find that out. I don't have that right yet.\nK: Good, thank you.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nHal Sonnenfeldt/Secretary Kissinger.\nFriday, June 7, 1974\n4:49 pm\nK:\nwhich, which would our position be?\nS: Tiev\nK: Well, all right. But they have proposed Odessa.\nS: Well, we really want Kiev .\nK: I know, but if we can't get Kiev do we then not have any?\nS: If we absolutely can't get Kiev I guess we can take Odessa, but we\nreally Kiev.\nK: Would you mind explaining to me why ?\nS: Because there's no business in Odessa that is of any consequencex,\nand Kiev is really is a place where there's utility in having it.\nK: Ok. Hold on a second, Larry. Ok, now what is this business about\nPortuguese access?\nS: Atomic information?\nK: Yes.\nS: You hadewanted a harder option than we gave you, but you wanted\nto take a deep breath after you came back.\nK: Well, I just think that semiCommunist governmentx, why should we\nopen it up?\nS: Well, that's very much my feeling, I must say.\nK: Well then let's do that.\nS: Ok.\nK: Good.\nS: All right.\nK: Thank you.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nJoe Sisco/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 7, 1974\n6:15 PM\n(Missed first part)\nK: Some specific proposal, some specific XXixxxx things we can give to the\nEgyptians.\nS: Yes, Hal was X doing a XXX paper on this.\nFahmy\nK: No, he was doing principles, but have you seen that/cable of what they\nexpect?\nS: My hair stood on end when I read it.\nK: Yes, but is there any complete we can do?\nS: Well, let me review it and we'll give you the best we can.\nK: Good and will you talk to Parker and is ther something in the fields we\ncan do?\nS: Yes, we'll give you the best we can of everything because I saw that and\nit really\nK: Well, you know\nS: This is Fahmy, of course, but we'll have something for you in the course\nof the morning to look at.\nK: We haven't heard yet from\nS: From the Syrians.\nK: Have delivered it?\nS: Well, I sent out a calbe cable 3 hours ago saying we would like a prompt reply.\nI just i did it on my own because\nK: No, that was right. Thank you, Joe.\nS: OK.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Sonnenfeldt/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 7, 1974\n6:19 PM\n(Missed first part)\nK: What 10%.\nS: In the SALT matter.\nK: Yes.\nup\nS: Brings our numbers CXTX/ to what they' ve already conceded to us. A little bit\nover so it's just comestics.\nK: OK.\nS: OK.\nK: Good, thank you.\nSonnenfeldt - 6:31 PM\nS: Yes, sir.\nK: Where the text of the ABM treaty for the Soviets?\nS: That has just come out of the Verification Panel working group and Aldridge\nhas it for another look. I have a copy of it here.\nK: It is going to the Soviets tomorrow. I don't give a damn what\nAlaxigex Aldridge says, I've just had enough of this.\nS: You also have a problem with Defense on it.\nK: No, only with the Joint Chiefs, not with Defense. What's the problem?\ned\nS: The Joint Chiefs, you know, and OSB is wobbly on this. You've talk/to\nSchlesinger about it and our\nK: I talked to Schlesinger about it and we insist on it. You just send it over\nXXXXXXX to the Soviets. The President has insisted.\nS: OK. Can you say something to them about the fact that this may not be\nexactly final?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSonnenfeldt - page 2\nK: Well, what is unfinal?\nS: Well, the lawyers may pick it apart. That's why Aldridge has it now.\nI 11 get it back from Aldrige with any changes but if he has some major change\nit has to be looked at again.\nK: Can Aldridge -- there's always a one hour period in which they work is\nXXXX\ndone. Can Aldridge spend that hour tomorrow morning.\nS: He's doing it right now.\nK: Alright, then you send it in tomorrow.\nSend it to Dobrynin tomorrow.\nS: I'll get it over to Dobrynin, OK.\nK: Now also Dobrynin has sent -- brought in the Russian text of a Communique\nhe's giving us the English text tomorrow.\nS: OK.\nK: I'll take a copy with me, but I may make some comments tomorrow, but\ncan you and Vorontsoz work on it while we're gone?\nS: Yes.\nK: Good.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Sonnenfeldt/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 7, 1974\n6:35 PM\nK: Hal, one other thing on that CSCE matter. Sheerer (phonetic) claimed\nhe had no instructions. Which maybe true. Now I've cleared the\ninstructions you've given me here, but I wanted to make tixedx to make it\na little clearer that he can talk to the NATO caucus and support it, but he\nalso ought to suppose it at the conference.\nS: Well, he'll be alone.\nK: First he has to talk to the NATO caucus.\nS: Well, that's what we promised to do and that's what he'll be instructed\nto dx go ahead and do now.\nK: Good. But in the sense of producing an agreement.\nS: Yes. As soon as that goes out, he'll do that. He wasn't instructed because\nK: Yes, but he supposed to take an active role in getting agreement.\nS: Yes, he wasn't instructed because\nK: And he will do that within a day or two of getting his instructions.\nS: In the NATO caucus?\nK: Yes.\nS: He'll start doing it there.\nK: And he will inform then the Soviet person there of where we stand.\nS: He'll keep them informed.\nK: OK, good, thank you.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Sonnenfeldt/Secretary Kissinger\nFriday, June 7, 1974\n6:55 pm\nK:\nAbout the Jewish immagration in Geneva, were you there?\nS: No.\nK: Or was Peter there?\nS: I certainly was not there when any of the details you've discussed the\nother day were discussed. I don't know that anybody was there because\nit may have been when you had a break with them.\ndrink\nK: Well, let me see whether Peter was there. Ok. Thank you.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nGeneral Scowcroft/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 7, 1974\n7:57 PM\nK: Brent, I have a number of things. The Soviets need the composition of\nthe advance party as quickly as possible.\nS: OK.\nK: Secondly, makes sure that Haig gets me an answer on the Volgagrad against\nMinsk problem that I discussed with him yesterday.\nS: Alright.\nK: In neither case is there a question of overnight. It would be on the way back\nfrom the Crimea.\nS: OK.\nK: In the case of Volgagrad which is the former Stalingrad, there is no airfield\nbig enough to handle the 707 but we're not flying the 707 anyway, we'll be on the\nSoviet plane. But they like the 707 to trail along.\nS: Yes, they do, for communications and other people and so on.\nK: OK, well, Minsk has an airfield big enough. We could compromise on\nmaybe.\nS: Both of them, they'l enjoy it.\nK:\nthey have everything.\nS: When do they want the advance party?\nK: I understand they're going there on the 19th.\nS: Well, that's what I understood.\nK: I think it doesn't give a hell of a lot of time for planning.\nS: No, it doesn't. As a matter of fact what they were going to do is sort of\nsend the advance party reconstitute it when they finish in the Middle East right\non the the Soviet Union.\nBut you think the Soviet Union is still if we could give them the names of the\npeople who are coming and little details like this and an arrival time.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nScowcroft - page 2\nS: Of course. Sure.\nK: Can we do it tomorrow?\nS: Oh, I think so.\nK: Or Monday, or as later as Monday.\nS: Right.\nK: OK. Finally, can you check with Peter whether he was present when I\ndiscuss with Gromyko the Jewish emigration question.\nS: OK.\nK: And what his records show about numbers.\nS: OK.\nK: OK, good. Thank you. Can you call me back on that.\nS: Sure.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nScowcroft/ Secretary Kissinger.\nSaturday, June 8, 1974\n9:10 AM\nK: Send me on a card j when I have to be at the airport, do I need\nspecial tags for my bags and stuff like that and also send some tags\nover because these people\nWith not telling me anything just pouring me on an airplane.\nS: Ixhixxx think it is intended that you leave from the South lawn\nwith the President.\nK: Well I would like to do that, but no one has told me a GD thing\nWhen is the plane leaving?\nS: XXX 8:55. I think it is 8:30 from the South lawn, but I will get\nit over to you very shortly.\nK: Can you do that. ? Fine\nS: I have a little information about your breakfast this morning.\nSomething he plans to ask you, I think.\nK: What is it, I am going there now.\nS: It is on the military procurement authorization bill, it is an\namendment that Jackson put on giving the Defense Department\na veto over export licensing.\nK:\nS: Mansfield is going to want your help. He posed it yesterday.\nK:\nDon't you think it is outrageous.\nS: It is outrageous.\nWhat he is probably going to ask for is a letter from you expressing\nyour views.\nK: I will be glad to do it.\nOkayx\nS: Okay.\nK: You know, I will be willing to listen to their views, but they have no\nright to veto. They are X not a separate government.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nS: Oh no, there is no question about it.\nK: Okay, I have to go upstairs.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nHal Sonnenfeldt/Secrtary Kissinger\nSaturday, June 8, 1974\n11:05 AM\nK: Hello.\nSI: Hi, Henry.\nK: On that NATO blarnyy, you know everyone and his Grandmother\ngives me his own schedule.\nS: I'm just sending you now a little memo because of this message to you\nfrom Souvanguard.\nK: Yes, I think I should have break fast with Souvangyard.\nS: Yes. There is another problem, though. And that has to do with the\nBrussels Summit.\nK: What about it ?\nS: You have a message from Souvanguard, which they unfortunately\ngave to Irwin in France.\nK: Yes, I've seen it.\nS: Well. The question is what we do next. I think we should not\nafter Giscard. He obviously doesn't want to go to Brussels.\nK: All right. Then let's let their Prime Minister go.\nS: Well, this hasn't been suggested. What I would like to do if you\nagree is to get the French Anbassador off the golf course where he is and\ntell him that we have this message which indicates an interest in a signature\nin Brussels, but we wondered just what they meant by that. I don't know\nthat we should suggest Ferrog.\nK: Let's just tell him that Schmidt and Wilson are coming.\nS: Well.\nK: We, of course, won't press them, but we think they should have an\nappropriate level official there.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nS: No, right. I would draft up a message to Rumsfeld telling him to get\ntogether with Luns privately to work out a scenario for organizing this.\nI held that up tast night before talking with you SO I could talk with you.\nBut I think we probably ought to do that and just tell them that Giscard\nhas indicated that he wouldn't come and we don't know yet what the\nFrench further French\nin\nK: I wish to proceed/any event.\nS: I understand that. I just wanted to be sure that that's what you wanted\nto do.\nK: That's - ok. good.\nS: Now on this Soviet communique. It's a workable wraft. It's got problems\non, as you might expect, CSCE, chemicals and a couple of other things.\nK: What does it say about the Middle East?\nS: I'll have to look, Henry. I've - --ix I think it's in the ballpark. I'm\njust giving you a little memo, Hyland's looking at it, and then I would like\nto suggest is to do an amendment draft using theirs as a basis and just\ngetting together with Voronstov starting Monday to go over it, paragraph\nby paragraph and keep you informed out there if we encounter problems.\nWe'll just have to bracket and leave open some of the things are clearly open,\nXX until we know a little more.\nK: Ok. Now they're taking my reasoning away again. I've got somebody\nwaiting.\nS: Ok.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nThe President/Secretary Kissinger\nSaturday, June 8, 1974\nXXXX\n11:15 AM\nP: Hello\nK: Mr. President\nP: X I thought you would like to know I sent\nThe briefing material is very good.\nK: I worked on it covering memo.\nP: The Covering memoranda is what I have baxex been reading of course.\nIt is very helpful and we will be able to talk about it on the way of course.\nK: I'll put some of the conversations with Assad and Sadat on the plane\njust to give you a feel for these men. A lot of it is technical stuff, that\nyou wouldn't want to read.\nP: I talked to Bob Hill who had said the Chinese Ambassador in\nArgentina had told him, apparently he is a loose talker that Chou EnLai\nwas on the way out because of his physical condition. So whatever that\nis worth.\nK: This is our impression , xx but it is also our impression that their\nrelation with the US is still in good shape.\nP: I wonder if there is anything to be said for your having some sort\nof little bow toward the Chinese before we go to the Soviet Union.\nK: I already did that Mr. President,\nP: I was thinking I would call him\nLocal call between the visits.\nK: That might be a good idea.\nP: Just to talk to him let him know well, it is for them and for the\nSoviets. So that they know.\nK: No, that might be a good idea.\nP: The other thing is that I wonder if. k Well I don't think anything\nwill come of it, if true, Bruce might reinstitute obviously if would come\nto UN X I don't know whether he would or wouldn't but for a meeting at\nCamp David or one in San Clemente. Obviously he won't come to Washington.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK: I'll raise that, but I don't think they will ever accept that.\nP: I agree, they won't, but I think it is a nice jex gesture to raise\nit in quiet polite, sorta in low key subtle way.\nK: I think if you see the Ambassador you ought to do it.\nP: Fine. I'll put that on the talking points.\nK: No I think that would\nP:\nfor the Ambassador\nK: After the Mid-East trip. And you know Mr. President we have\narranged for the signing of the NATO declaration in Brussels on your\nway to Moscow.\nP: Provided that it will be ready.\nK: It will be ready. We will complete it in Ottawa and we will\ninitial it in Ottawa which just means it is completed and then it will\nbe signed in Brussels and we have already got Schmidt and Wilson\nagreeing to come there. Which means that most of the heads of\ngovernments will come. Giscard can't come right now.\nBut he will probably send his Prime Minister.\nP: Well, the others are Prime Ministers so what the heck.\nIt is perfectly all right.\nK: That's right.\nP: The Italians would come in a minute.\nK: Of course, and this is not, Mr. President, I would not take this\nas a hostile move from Giscard.\nP: No, no. I just wonder if it is too hostile to the Russians.\nK: No.\nP: Well they know the darn thing has been on the platter for a long time.\nK: No, no., this is not a hostile thing. And it X actually says friendly\nthings about detente and the declaration. It is better that way Mr. President\nthan do it on the way back.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-3-\nP: If we do M\non the way back which I prefer much to Stalingrad.\nI don't want to go to Stalingrad for a number of reasons, but basically\nif we get M\nwe could fly directly from M- back I think.\nK: The way we are doing it Mr. President, unless you want X to change\nit we can do it either way. We thought we would do M on the\nway\nback from the Kremmer to Moscow and then fly back from Moscow\nwhich you can also do directly. M is only a 100 miles closer\nand probably\nno at all xxxx closer.\nP: Either one. Fine.\nK: I think it is better to depart from Moscow.\nP: I agree.\nK: Because then they will all come to the airport.\nP: We can maybe have some final communique signed.\nK: That is the point Mr. President, we could issue the communique\nthe morning of 0000 your departure this way and then M\nwouldn't\nbe a let down.\nP: Right. I get. it. Sounds better.\nEverything else all right. Fine. Housx How are you feeling?\nK: I feel fine.\nP: Getting a little rest?\nK: A little bit.\nP: Not much. I understand you are going X over to see the German\nForeign Minister in Austria.\nK: Well, I am going over to Germany to see him. He has been wanting\nto see me. I canceled a meeting with him three times and now he\nproposed this one.\nP: Yes, I understand.\nK: And since Schmidt is going to come to Brussels and he'll do us more\ngood in Brussels.\nP: That's fine. OK\nK: Right Mr. President\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Secretary Kissinger\nSaturday, June 8, 1974\nD: Hello\nK: Anatolyn\nD: You are working from the very beginning. I thought you were already\nsigning something\nK: Historic document.\nD: Well, landmark or some other very nice word as you say\nK: I called it historic or it is historic\nD: Of course I take it for granted. No question about it.\nK: We would like to go to Mensch(Sp?)\nD: Okay Mensch with understanding that it would be from\nK: From Greme yes.\nD: Greme and Moscow And going from Moscow\nK: Right. Exactly\nD: As for the composition of the group on Monday, I will check with\nScowcroft. And\nK: As for communique I have looked it over and I have you know,\nno overwhelming problems with it.\nD: That is my impression too.\nK: You know there are phrases in the Middle East section\nfor example about how to describe the Palestinians and things like\nthat, but I don't think we need to discuss that now.\nD: No, no, I understand. So we will proceed in general\nis acceptable.\nK: As a basis it is acceptable. But that does not keep me\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nD: No, No, I understand the issues, boxtx because some session\nyou have.\nSo we will take it and begin on Monday.\nK: I just had it before me now they have taken it away from meagain.\nHold on a second.\nD: Okay.\nK: Hello, I had a happy life before I had this bureaucracy.\nI even got work done.\nD: Well I think you are trying to get rid of them.\nBy not appointing your Assistant Secretary. Finally you will be\nK: You know there are things for example we cannot accept the\nreference to the nuclear testing as an objective to be comprehensive\nand universal, but we can accept comprehensive. But you know, there\nare a lot of minor things, you know the rights and interests of all\nstates iand people in the area including the Arab people of Palestine.\nYou know phrases like that and at the end you say frank atmosphere\nand fruitful result. Frank usually means there was a lot of disagreement\nYou can say constructive, friendly.\nD: In understand\nK: But this is the sort of thing, it is not worth; substantially\nit is agreeable.\nD:\nGo back and we will sit down with you together.\nK: Right. Now Anatolyv, I have the transcript of my conversation\nhere with Gromyko. Actually from Geneva.\nD: You mentioned to him 40, 45, 000.\nK: Let me just read you what I have. I said the General Secretary said\nto me and to Kennedy that everybody without a security clearance can\ngo. Gromyko said we told you. Then I siad if it were possible for me\nto say this, and Gromyko says you can say this. Then if I could get an\nestimate of what this means in numbers, Gromyko says, what WX would\nyou say. I said last year it was 35, 000. Gromyko says right. Then\nI said, if I could say 40 to 45, 000, Gromyko said for what period?\nI said for a year, Gromyko said what year, I said for the whole year\nas a yardstick. Gromyk 0 said approximately as i a trend that is\nall right. Then I said, what I will say is my estimate is based on all\nmy conversations this means 40 to 45, 000. Gromyko says yes you will be\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-3-\njustified. Yes the General Secretary even made a joke the other day\nthat perhaps we should start a campaign for the Jews to go, and that\nis what he said.\nD: What I have hear\nI will translate how it was written by him. Dr. Kissinger raised three\npoints. The first point, he said that you said you would like to say\nthat the Soviet activek authority do not have in mind or in view to prevent\nor to limit immigration from the Soviet Union deliberately and that\ntaking into consideration the statistics or figures which already\nhave about immigration for the last three years, it would be\nassumed that the level of immigration for 1974 will be some where\nin the limits or 40-45, 000. This is what you said.\nI answered to Mr. Kissinger that we do not have a objection against\nhis qualifications which he intends to make, but made clear that this\ndoes not mean of course to take on ourselves strick oxxjx obligations\nto fulfill exactly those figures, because the number of people who\nwould like to immigrate from the Soviet Union would be less, and\nDr. Kissinger should take it into\nhimself.\nK: Well, what are we going to do now?\nD: I was just telling you to ask Gromyko. Maybe he has k some additions.\nK: Well, can I have Sonnenfeldt get in touch with you to work out that letter ?\nD: Of course.\nK: Because I really think we can achieve a solution and it would also solve\nthe credit problem.\nD: Understand. Well I am just waiting now to reply to him, because\nthis telegam you mentioned to me. If I do not receive it today, when\nI receive it, I will give Sonnenfeldt text. Okay?\nK: Right.\nD: Maybe I will receive it today. I don't know yet.\nK: If you hear, let me know.\nD: Yes, I will let you know about it. But this is exactly what I read from\nhis\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-4-\nK: Well, and I have read you what.\nD: In your case you just have a minute.\nIn my case I only have official summaries.\nHis summaries\nBut this is what I have here on my own\nWell let's do it as you propose.\nI sent telegram to Gromyko akx asking him on this one.\nK: Well, the sooner the better so we can work something out with\nJackson.\nD: I understand.\nK: Because that other Bill goes txxx through before the end\nof the month.\nD: I understand.\nK: Good.\nD: Okay.\nK: Bye.\nD: What about communique\nK: Exactly.\nA?IC?\nDa And now what about IBM business.\nK: Hasn't that been sent to you? It will be sent to you this weekend\nYou can count on it.\nD: One question. I just received a telegram. This is a message from\nMr. Brezmnev to the President. About the need to speed up the work\nof the European conference. It is saying that maybe in order put this\nup\nsend to Geneva on a last part of the second stage is going on\nnow. To present a little more higher rank than it is They will\nhave authority to take decisions\non this part.\nK: Whom are you thinking of ?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-5-\nthere is a possibility of me saying\nD: He didn't specify, but in the endme mentioned Dr Kissinger, Brezmnev's\nletter to Mr. Schmidt and to Mr. Wilson\nK: Okay.\nD: It didn't define exactly but the idea is SO please look what can be done\nlater on.\nK: I'll communicate with you about it or I'll get Sonnenfeldt to todo it.\nD: Okay, transmit usual way. and then send to you, okay.\nK: Excellent.\nThank you Anatolyv\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nA. Dobrynin/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 8, 1974; Saturday\n2:55 p.m.\nD: Hello?\nK: Yes, Ana\nticker that\nD: Yes, one question. I noticed on General Scowcroft goes with\nyou too.\nK: Yes.\nD: Who am I supposed to contact? In the White House everything should go\nthrough Sonnenfeldt.\nK: You better do it through Sonnenfeldt or through Col. Kennedy at the White Hous\nif it's very sensitive.\nD: Col. Kennedy, I know him, yes. He was before? Yes?\nK: Yes.\nD: So we are supposed to check with him now?\nK: Yes. Now Anatoli, I have two other things which I had forgotten tomention.\nOne is, well the second I better keep for a personal conversation. It's not that\ntime urgent. The other one is the Kiev versus Odessa. It seems to have it\nif we trade NY for Odessa, it really looks again as if we get the worst of the\narrangement.\nD: I could rather have you work then for your consideration there are some\nof your people there who but really, in our case, we do have people working\nin\nthis is pure organizational thing because our mission at the United Nations\ndoesn't want to be engaged (inaudible) himself. XX X anxpaxhexx XXXXX XIX\nyouxhaxx We will think of all the things we can get other (inaudible) here in\nthe course of whether boxts they calling for Department 24 hours. Because\nyou already have people in this city. So it would be excellent if you could\narrange it, but until you do it completely avoid, in this case Odessa, where\nyou know, you could have a big wood area.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK: The only other countries that I can tell that have consulates there\nare Bulgaria and India.\nD: I think there are some others too.\nK: No. Cuba and India-Cuba and Bulgaria, that's it.\nD: That's good company.\nK: That's a little boring then for our man.\nD: Yes, well, I understand. Would you like something else? Something Else?\nK: Well, would you look into it?\nD: Well, let's look at one mutually. Ok?\nK: Ok.\nD: Have you had a chance to look at this communique yet ?\nK: I haven't got an answer but I will get it.\nD: Then we will get back, yes?\nK: I hope so.\nD: Ok. Soon. We will wait it. If the other thing comes - -if some urgency\ncomes up, I will go through Kennedy to you, right?\nK: Right.\nD: Through him.\nK: Yes.\nD: Ok. Good. Thank you.\nK: Good Xaxk bye.\nD: Bye-bye (inaudible) and good luck.\nK: Thank you. Don't overdo it.\nD: I hope you won't surprise us with some big agreement in the Middle East.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-3-\nK: No, believe me, believe me. There's no agreement planned.\nD: Because we kept telling information in Egypt your plans\nclaim the second stage of\nK: Absolute nonsense. Believe me.\nD: No?\nK: Look, we are not playing games like that. There will be no agreement\nannounced, you know. Maybe some technical cooperation or something like\nthat. I mean nothing of any fundamental significance.\nD: I mean on a technical (inaudible)\nK: Well, ******* even that we are not planning; but, you know, if they're\nlooking around for something maybe some agreement on some minor technical\nissue. But there will be no second stage agreement; there will be nothing\nof that kind.\nD: The reason is we heard there is something cooking.\nK: There's nothing you can cook here. If there is, they're not doing it with\nus.\nD: That's the Russian view. If you affirm me. Because we heard something\nthat a\nK: Anatoli, really, why should I lie to you on something you'll know in a week?\nfair enough,\nD: No, no, no. We'll wait/because I didn't ask you if the issue were you.\nK: I give you the absolute assurance thattotal assurance that there will be\nno second stage agreement or no announcement having anything to do with the\nMiddle East peace negotiations.\nD: Would you make a communique or would the announcement, what kind\nof public documents, I mean.\nK: Probably a communique, but no treaty, no. It will not be a, you know\nit may be visible, but it's not a big event.\nD: I understand. It's rather difficult to expect you to do something in\n2 days.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-4-\nK: Impossible.\nD: What you have already accomplished, so if, I prefer you not disappoint\nbut this way I'm talking to you.\nK: Look.\nD: (inaudible)\nK: Anatol, you can give the absolute assurance to Gromyko that nothing\nof any significance of that kind will be announced.\nD: I understand. I thank you.\nK: Bye.\nD: Ok. Bye=bye.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMax Fisher/Secretary Kissinger\nSaturday, June 8, 1974\n5:20 PM\nK: Hello.\nF: Henry, Max Fisher\nK: Yes, how are you?\nF: How are you today ?\nK: Little bit harrassed.\nF:\nCongress talks about wiretapping. They should be patting you\non the back and telling you what a job you are doing.\nK: The Congress isn't so bad, it is the Press.\nF: I know that. That is the GDest thing. By the way I didn't have\nan opportunity to tell you, you did one fantastic job over there in the\nnegotiations.\nK: Aren't you nice.\nF: Everyone over there, says it is just a miracle that you pulled that\nthing off. They are tremendously happy about it.\nK: Aren't you nice.\nopportunity to\nF: I know\ndidn't have an/adequate ly tell you about it, but that is\nthe fexlx feeling XX all around. In fact, even sent you a sermon from the\nbiggest synagogue. They are even talking about you in the synagogue.\nK: Isn't that nice.\nF: Henry, we have put some pressure on Jackson, as much as we can\nwithout letting him know\nSeveral of the organizations have gone on\nrecord on reformulation.\nK: Wonderful.\nF: I don't know what is going to happen, we have a character over there\nby the name of Pearl.\nK: I know.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nF: But I think there is really nothing to be done.\nNo use meeting with this meeting. I did that more for the record\nthan anything else. Asking for the meeting.\nK: Oh, what do you mean at the meeting.\nF: Remember the other day I asked you for a xxxxxxxx meeting with\nLowell and Myself and Miller.\nK: Yes. Frankly I just don't see how I can do it.\nF: I don't want you. I did this ** just for the record.\nK: I will be glad to do it when I come back, from the trip.\nF: No, you hear what I said, I did it for the record there.\nWhen you get back will be X plenty of time.\nK: Good.\nF: But I thought we have been doing some background, I checked\nwith several people that we had the American Jewish Committee\ntalking to them , American Jewish Congress, Phil Klotnick and\na few others. Phil is going to be Financial Manager of Jackson.\nWe have talked to a few of them and I hope you can come out with\nsomething. I am going over to Israel Wednesday. I'll be there\nfor both series of meetings if anything needs to be done further,\nwish you would let me know. You'll be gone anyway.\nK: I'll be gone.\nF: I know that. We'll I'll be over there the same *hix*x time you are.\nK: Well let me know maybe we will have a chance to talk.\nF: All right. We can possibly do that, because the same people will\nbe over there at that time.\nAnd I'll be there, I have to be there as head of the Jewish Agency.\nYou moved all my 300 people out of the King David Hotel\nK: Is that so?\nF: Yes. I say this on this thing, you haven't made any further moves\non that yet have you at all.\nK: No.\nF: All right. Fine, when ever you are ready too.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-3-\nK: No, because I am still trying to get a letter to Jackson cleared\nby the Russians. I don't want to write a letter to Jackson that the\nRussians then disavow.\nF: Yea, well when you are, andyou need a little help and push on that\nyou let me know and we will do whatever we can. By the way the meeting\nthe other day, I wrote you a note on it, it was a very good meeting and\nit was very helpful as far as the community was concerned.\nYour briefings have been very, very important in creating\nconfidence you know in the community. IXX I think it is important.\nK: It is crucial and you all have been very helpful.\nF: Well, I think it is good for the country and for Israel.\nK: Thank you Max.\nF: OK and I'll see you over in Israel my friend.\nK: Good, look forward to it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nHal Sonnenfeldt/Secretary Kissinger\nJune 8, 1974; Saturday\n5:43 PM\nK: Hello?\nS: Ah, yes. I just wanted to read you the sentence I want to try out. on\nDobrynin on the 45, 000. Fourth, we have reason to believe that the number\nof persons permitted to emigrate will rise to as many as 45, 000 a year.\nK: No, that the amplication of these criteria may well\nS: Ok. Then maybe I should stick it at the end.\nK: Yeah. Maybe that.\nS: We' may well lead to a rise in the number to as many as 45, 000.\nK: Good.\nS: Ok. Good.\nK: Bye.\nEND\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified."
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