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    "ocrText": "Exit Interview\nWith\nCONSTANCE C. STUART\nOn\nMarch 15, 1973\nRECORDS AND ARCHIVES ADMINISTRATION NATTONAL\n1985\nNixon Presidential Materials Staff\nNational Archives and Records Administration\nExit interview with Constance Stuart\nconducted by Susan Yowell\nin Mrs. Stuart's office in the East Wing of the White House\non March 15, 1973\nSY: [Unintelligible] your book that Martha Doss had sent\nover, because I figured that your job description in\nhere would probably cover an awful lot, and that you\nmight even just want to kind of go down and mention\nthings which should be expanded, either now or at some\nlater time, as far as discussing particular events or\nareas which would be of historical significance, which\nare probably not well documented in the paper files.\nCS: All right.\nSY: or what you [unintelligible].\nCS: Those job descriptions are pretty darn complete.\nSY: Right.\nCS: We did that with the idea we'd rather be too wordy than\nnot wordy enough. We'd rather\nSY: Right.\nCS:\nleave something\nSY: Right.\nCS:\nand that's why we provided you all with a copy.\nSY: Well, this, you know, the requirement for the White\nHouse staff to come up with these job descriptions was\njust fantastic from the library's point of view\nCS: Hm hmm.\nSY:\nbecause this is one area which, talking with people\nin the other libraries, is just not well documented at\nall.\n1\nCS: Hm hmm.\nSY: And, as you know, probably most of the things that come\nout of this office either go with your name on it or\nMrs. Nixon's name.\nCS: Right.\nSY: And the staff under you, the distinction as to who does\nwhat, is not clear\nCS: Uh huh.\nSY:\nwhen you try and go back to it.\nCS: Uh huh.\nSY: You know, actually know how things functioned. So\nthat's what we're trying to do.\nCS: Sure, anyway you'd like to do it.\nSY: Is talk to people when they leave the staff, and very\nbriefly\nCS: Two points. Do you want me to say what's already in\nthe job description because you want to keep\nSY: No.\nCS:\norally recorded? No, no, you want me to talk about\nthings that may not be indicated in that book.\nSY: That may not be indicated in it. We're not trying\nto\nCS: Vis-a-vis what? Operations, or how the event actually\nhappened, or what is it you are looking for here, hon?\nSY: Well\nCS: Just so I'll know in my own mind.\nSY: Well, we have\n2\nCS: You're more concerned about staff operations.\nSY:\nthe staff, very, staff operations at this point. As\nI said, one thing we're not trying to do, at this\npoint, is to go into policy areas which might be\nsensitive now, but which could be talked about at a\nlater time, when a future Nixon oral history project,\nin a more in-depth study. We're really just trying to\ndo this background, and then, at this time, mention\nthings, or however much you want to expand.\nCS: O.K. But, I mean, you're not looking for colorful\nstories of what happened when we were on the African\ntrip kind of thing?\nSY: No, no.\nCS: No, it's not that kind of recording for history.\nSY: Hm hmm, hm hmm.\nCS: It's much more how the staff operated.\nSY: Well, in the first place, that, there's so many things\nlike that that right now we couldn't begin to cover\nthat type of thing in the short time that we have.\n[Unintelligible].\nCS: I'm not trying to belabor the point\nSY: Right.\nCS:\nit's just I can, you know, start yakking about\nSY: I'm sure you could.\nCS:\nseventy million things, and I want to just do what\nit is you want.\nSY: Yeah. Well, you're one of the people that, I'm sure,\n3\nwould be contacted in a later oral history project for\nthis type of thing, and then for the more policy areas.\nCS: All right.\nSY: So\nCS: O.K. Well, we're talking about kind of the four years\nof the Nixon administration.\nSY: Right.\nCS: or do you want who does what now, today, March\nfifteenth?\nSY: I think maybe the best thing\n....\nCS: Because some girls, you see, have been transferred from\none job to another.\nSY: Right. I think the best from your point, you've been\nhere since the beginning.\nCS: No, I missed the first nine months.\nSY: Oh, sorry.\nCS: O.K.?\nSY: [Unintelligible]. Right.\nCS: I came in October '69.\nSY: That's right. But just kind of how the office has\nevolved under you.\nCS: So, in other words, rather than just doing what it is I\ndo\nSY: Right.\nCS:\nI can give you a little description\nSY: Right.\nCS:\nof what happened when I came in in October, and how\n4\nwe set it up at that time.\nSY: Right.\nCS: Basically it stayed pretty much with the way we set it\nup, it didn't change too much.\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: It has changed a little now as [unintelligible]\noperations, so I can do a little kind of background\nhistory, if that's what you'd like.\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: And then get into, well, you ask questions and I\nanswer, is that sort of what happens?\nSY: Well, no. Well, you go ahead if, you know, if you can\ntake it from there it would be\nCS: O.K.\nSY: I think we're [the recorder is] on [laughter].\nCS: O.K. [laughter]. Well, I came into this job in October\nof 1969. And at that time, although I'm not the expert\non this, I can give you what my view was at that time,\nof how this office operated. And it may not quite be\naccurate. When I came in, in October, the basic\nstructure was that there was a press secretary and a\nsocial secretary, who reported to Mrs. Nixon. The\nother staff people along the hall either reported to\nthe social secretary, or the press secretary. And\nthose two women then reported to Mrs. Nixon.\nThere seemed to be a feeling, when I came in, that\nperhaps it would be better if there were a staff\n5\ndirector to whom all would report on administrative\nmatters, and that there would be more of just a central\npoint of responsibility here on the staff. So I came\nin as both the staff director and the press secretary.\nAnd I set up Mrs. Nixon's staff, of course with her\nconcurrence, I mean, with many discussions with her,\nsomewhat along the lines of how the President's staff\nwas set up. Simply to provide good links of\ncommunication between corresponding offices.\nFor instance, there was, of course, the press\noffice. And the responsibilities in this press office,\nof course, were quite similar to those of the\nPresident's press office. The briefings were held for\nreporters, press releases were released, arrangements\nwere made by this staff for coverage of the various\nevents that Mrs. Nixon and her two daughters were\ninvolved in.\nThen there was also an appointments office, and\nthis was a very small version of several offices over\non the West side that would have corresponded to the\nPresident's appointments office, plus also the tour\noffice on the President's staff, that was charged with\nthe responsibility of handling advance arrangements for\ntravel and for those times that Mrs. Nixon or her\ndaughters would be outside of the White House. The\nappointments office was responsible for calendars and\nscenarios and scheduling, and, as I say, advancing.\n6\nThere's a correspondence office on Mrs. Nixon's\nstaff that is very comparable, of course, with the\nPresident's correspondence office. To handle all those\nletters that come in addressed to Mrs. Nixon, Tricia\n[ (Nixon) Cox], or Julie [ (Nixon) Eisenhower], David\nEisenhower and Ed [Edward R. F.] Cox. And many times\nthat come in that are purely social invitations that\nare to both the President and Mrs. Nixon, this side is\nresponsible for handling them.\nNow, the social secretary's office is a little\nunique, in the sense that really the social secretary\nis the social secretary for the whole White House, not\njust for Mrs. Nixon. So, Lucy Winchester, in the role\nof the social secretary does, in a sense, report to\nboth Mrs. Nixon and the President, because often if\nhe's having a stag dinner, for instance, and Mrs.\nNixon's not involved, Lucy, of course, is still\nresponsible for the event as far as, you know, the menu\nand the flowers and the seating arrangement, and all\nthat kind of thing. So, from an administrative point\nof view, as far as staff and typewriters, papers,\npencils, and all that kind of thing, I was responsible\nfor the social secretary's office. But in a larger\nsense, Lucy really reports to the White House at large,\nas far as social events are concerned.\nAnd in that context, there is what's called the\nsocial entertainments office here, and that's handled,\n7\nthat's headed up by Sanford Fox. And, of course, Sandy\nand his people are responsible for all the lovely\nengraved invitations, the place cards, and all the\nsocial amenities that go along with inviting someone to\nthe White House, and seeing that they are royally\ntreated as a guest. So that office, of course, works\nvery closely with Lucy. Once again, from an\nadministrative point of view, I would become\nresponsible for that office, but from an operations or\na functions point of view, they worked with Lucy and/or\nvarious other offices in the White House.\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: And those basically were the offices--appointments,\npress, social, social entertainments, correspondence,\nand then, such as it was, the executive office as such,\nor the administrative office, which was sort of me and\nthe secretary.\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: And that was the structure when I came in, and\ntechnically still really is the structure now.\nThere've been changes in personnel, depending on what\nit was we were doing and what particular phase of the\nadministration we were in, a certain office would\nperhaps gain an extra person, or lose a person. For\ninstance, during the campaign year, when scheduling was\nvery heavy, and there was a great deal of travel and\nthat type of thing, the workload of the appointments\n8\noffice on this side would be particularly heavy. But\nin non-campaign or non-political years, when the\nPresident and Mrs. Nixon were entertaining more, for\ninstance, in the first year of any administration there\nis a fair amount of entertaining. You're entertaining\nthe new Congress, heads of state want to come visit the\n\"new\" President, that type of thing. You have a very\nheavy social schedule. So then the social office is\nparticularly heavy at that point.\nAt the time of Tricia Cox's wedding, with the\nparticularly large and mammoth event that was handled\nhere at the White House. It never ceases to amaze me\nhow much work and effort [laughter] went into one\ngirl's wedding. But we even had a couple of volunteers\nthat worked here in the office, simply because the mail\nload was so heavy, the press requests were so heavy,\netc. So we, like any other office, depending on the\nwork load, will occasionally have to, on a volunteer\nbasis, increase the staff. And that's sort of the\nhistory of the operations, in a nutshell.\nI think we'll find in the next four years, the\nstructure will stay basically the same, although we are\none less in the appointments office at this particular\npoint. And all the rest of the offices are about the\nsame in size and scope of work.\nSY: And you would expect that to [unintelligible]\n?\nCS: Well, quite obviously I am leaving my job and there\n9\nvery possibly may be changes in the structure and the\norganization. I wouldn't think there'd be too major\nchanges as far as the organization chart is concerned.\nMaybe in personnel or the numbers within the offices,\nthat might change, but not significantly, I don't\nthink.\nSY: Hm hmm. Is your replacement been, oh, well Helen Smith\nis\nCS: Helen Smith will be\nSY:\ngoing to come over then.\nCS:\nthe press secretary, that's right.\nSY: Then who is going to replace you then?\nCS: Actually, what is sort of happening here, is my role as\nthe staff director is not being replaced. Helen will\nbe the press secretary and the staff that she has is\nthe staff we have operated with pretty much along the\nline. And that won't increase. Several factors are at\nwork here. All of the girls who are in that press\noffice have been here a year and a half or more, except\nfor the secretary who's been with us about eight or\nnine months. And the operation has been operating for\nsuch a long period of time that it's a pretty smooth\noperation and the women are all experienced in it. The\npress long ago became accustomed to the way that the\nNixon administration would be handling press matters.\nI think we'll be able to, with the people in that\nstaff, maintain the press operation at its current\n10\nlevel, with basically about a half less person, that\nhalf being me.\nAnd as you may know, Julie Eisenhower and her\nhusband will be living in the area, and Julie has said\nshe would like to be assisting her mother in some of\nher activities and her programs and in helping with the\nstaff too. So, Julie will kind of be working with her\nmother and occasionally fill in in some of the roles\nthat I held here. Not as a paid member of the staff or\nanything, but Julie will kind of be working with her\nmother on plans and decisions and policies, and this,\nthat and the other thing. She's a volunteer [laughter]\nin the office.\nNow, Mrs. Nixon wants to try for awhile having a\npress secretary and a social secretary and not really a\nstaff director. She wants to serve as her own staff\ndirector, with Julie as kind of an assistant.\nSY: Well, this would be kind of going back to before you\ncame then, in one sense.\nCS: In one sense yes, and in one sense no. The sense that\nthere would not be a staff director, yes. And that\nthere'd only be a press secretary and a social\nsecretary, yes. But, as I say, Julie, for awhile here,\nis going to be filling in in some of this role as kind\nof the central point for the staff to report to, and as\nkind of a liaison with the West side. But, as I say,\nshe's not going to be on the payroll or anything.\n11\nShe llbe in a, as her mother says, a volunteer\ncapacity.\nSY: Hm hmm. She won't be doing any of the press\nCS: No, no\nSY:\n[unintelligible].\nCS:\nHelen Smith will be.\nSY: Hm hmm. Well, it should be\nCS: It's going to be interesting [laughter].\nSY: Who could be more appropriate?\nCS: Well, Julie, of course, knows her mother and her father\nvery very well and will lend a very valuable judgment\nfactor into some of the activities that will be going\non. Although she, of course, will still be operating\nas a principal. She'll be traveling and speaking and\n[unintelligible] and other things, so\nSY: Yeah.\nCS: The size of the staff is being cut down by one or two\nbodies from its peak during the campaign period, as\nwould be expected.\nSY: Hm hmm. Well, could you, I don't know how you would\nprefer to do it, but, possibly by going through your\njob description as it's written up in here\nCS: Hm hmm.\nSY:\nexpand on areas which\nCS: I haven't expanded on already [laughter].\nSY:\nwhich you haven't expanded on already, right. Or\nareas which would have items either, you know, one time\n12\nitems, or areas which should be documented.\nCS: O.K. Well, in my introduction I had indicated that the\nrole that I had here, at the White House, was kind of\ntwo-fold, or that I wore two hats. One as the staff\ndirector, and that was administrative. And I was\nresponsibile, as I have mentioned, for the\nadministration of the office. Hiring, changing of\npersonnel, signing requests for automatic grade\nincreases, and that type of thing, I mean, or\nadministrative increases in salary and that type of\nthing.\nAnd I also was sort of the focal point for contact\nwith the West side, both in schedule and press, and\ncoordination of Family calendars with the President's\ncalendar. And then, of course, as the press secretary,\nI was the official spokesman for the Family. I\nconducted the briefings.\nWe might talk about the briefings for a moment.\nPrior to my coming into this job there hadn't been\nregularly scheduled press briefings for the press. And\nwhen I first came in, there seemed to be a need for it.\nThat is, there were so many reporters with so many\nrequests for information that the telephones were just\nringing off the hook all the time. And it seemed the\nmost sensible thing to do was to have an organized way\nin which to get this information out to everybody at\none time. So I set up a schedule of briefing twice a\n13\nweek, on Mondays and Thursdays. Monday in the morning,\nThursday in the afternoon.\nNow, as time went on, and depending on the amount\nof activity, sometimes I did not brief twice a week.\nPerhaps we'd just brief once a week. At the time of\nTricia's wedding I was briefing almost every day. So\nbriefings were based on the reporters' need to know,\nand how many needed to know what. At this particular\ntime we're not briefing. The Family schedules, simply\nbecause of Tricia and Julie's personal plans at this\nparticular time. David Eisenhower's in the Navy and\nJulie and David's home was in Florida. And Julie was\nnot here a great deal. And, as I'm sure you know,\nTricia and Ed Cox will be moving to New York, and he's\ntaking a job with a law firm, and Tricia will not be\nliving here in the house. So when the girls aren't\nliving here and maintaining schedules of their own, and\nit's just Mrs. Nixon's schedule, there is not,\nobviously, quite as much \"news\" to get out on a\nregularly scheduled basis.\nPlus, the press corps has finally gotten all of\nthe facts and figures finally in their heads and the\noperation procedures about how things are going to be\ndone. Things have become much more routine than they\nused to be. And the requirement simply is not there to\nbrief like it used to be. We find that we do better\nnow on a twenty-four to forty-eight hour basis. To\n14\nsimply call the local wire services and call those\nreporters we know would be interested in covering an\nevent, and simply giving them the information.\nMost of these press women cover many beats and\nhave many responsibilities, and frankly it's often\neasier for them to do business on the telephone, rather\nthan to bring them in for a briefing and go through it\nall and, etc. So we're not briefing at this particular\npoint, and I would anticipate that probably Helen Smith\nwon't be briefing as regularly as I did, and as a\nmatter of fact, may not even brief at all, except on\nspecial occasions, when special trips come up, or\nsomething like that. So that function will change a\nlittle bit.\nThe appointments office, because it is such a\nsmall operation here, and it's really been basically\ntwo girls and a secretary, and now it's one girl and a\nsecretary. I became involved in the scheduling of\ncertain events. The more routine things were handled\nby the appointments secretary, but more major events, I\ntook the responsibility for planning with Mrs. Nixon.\nParticularly trips she would be taking around the\ncountry; or foreign trips; major presenatations here at\nthe White House, let's say the opening of the Green\nRoom or the Red Room, or something like that. I would\nbecome involved in both the scheduling and the press on\nthat, because that way it was only, it was one person\n15\nwho had knowledge of both offices who was dealing with\nMrs. Nixon in organizing them. And then, of course, I\noversaw the responsibility of the appointments office\nto get out scenarios and calendars and this, that and\nthe other thing. I think I've belabored the press\noffice enough [laughter]. The correspondence, oh, I'm\nsorry, go ahead.\nSY: What, one thing that's not well documented is how\nvarious offices have worked together and the\nrelationship between your office, or the office under\nyou, and the operations in the West Wing. At any point\nthat there is, you know, some significance\n[unintelligible] there, you might mention which offices\nyou were working with, and how closely you really\ncoordinated with them.\nCS: All right. I made a list of that at one point. Let's\nsee if I can find it [laughter]. Well, the types of\noffices that I would correspond with, and then as I go\nthrough this I'll break down--I was in touch with all\nof them, because they'd all end up being in touch with\nme. They'd find it was easier to come to a central\npoint, and then I would delegate it down through this\nstaff. But, as I go through this, I'll indicate which\none of the [East Wing] offices were also kind of the\nsecond figure that would coordinate with the [West\nWing] office.\nWe do a lot of work with the visitor's office.\n16\nThis is the office, here in the East Wing, that's\nresponsibile, basically, for the tours that come\nthrough the White House. But, often it would be, often\nMrs. Nixon would host a tea and a reception for a group\nand she would ask that they would have a tour of the\nWhite House prior to her seeing them. So, I would work\nwith John Davies for two years, and then Mike [Michael\nJ.] Farrell for two years, in simply coordinating,\nwhether it was a group that asked for a tour and then\nasked to see Mrs. Nixon, or whether it was a group that\nasked to see Mrs. Nixon and she said, \"Let's give them\na tour while they're here.\"\nNow the logistics of the tour, and the timing of\nit, and the arrival of the people, would be worked out\nbetween, usually, the social office. In other words,\nLucy Winchester and her people would then work out the\ndetails of these people coming in. Because usually\nMrs. Nixon was actually hosting them at a social\nfunction.\nWe do a lot of business with the White House photo\noffice. At a policy level--do pictures need approval?\n--because Mrs. Nixon does like to see the photographs\nbefore they' re given out to the press or private\norganizations. At a policy level I would deal with the\nphoto office. At the operating level, that is,\nactually ordering the pictures, determining the size of\nthem, or whether they're in black and white or color,\n17\nand how many copies we need, actually my assistant\ndealt with the photo office. Although, so does the\npress office, so does the correspondence office.\nThe requirement for photographs sent out of the\nWhite House is almost unbelievable. You get everyone\nfrom, you know, the little old lady in Des Moines that\nwants an autographed picture of Mrs. Nixon, to\nmagazines who are doing major layouts and want a\nvariety of pictures. So there are a number of people\nthat deal with the photo office on a variety of\nrequests. I have to say, frankly, that almost every\noffice on Mrs. Nixon's staff, at one point or another,\nneeds to deal with the photo office.\nWe tried to centralize the ordering of those\npictures through my assistant, just to make it easier.\nAnd basically it would boil down to, my assistant\nordered the majority of the pictures that were for\nother than the \"official\" picture. That is, the\npictures that the Family signs to autograph, signs for\nautographs. And those pictures are ordered through the\ncorrespondence office, 'cause, of course, they get the\nletters requesting them.\nOf course we deal with the Secret Service,\nparticularly myself and the appointments office.\nSimply to alert them that events are coming up on the\ncalendars and that they would want to make the normal\nsecurity arrangements for whatever those events are.\n18\nWe deal with the usher's office in the White\nHouse, because this office, quite obviously, schedules\nmany events in the White House itself, for Mrs. Nixon\nand her daughters, and the usher's office is, of\ncourse, they're kind of the hotel managers here, they\nand the people who make sure that the House is clean,\nthe tables are set up, and this, that and the other\nthing. So this office, from a scheduling point of\nview, and of course Lucy Winchester's office, the\nsocial secretary, from an operations point of view,\nseeing that the House is set up.\nOf course the press office on this side deals\ndirectly with the press office on the West side. And\ntaking the people in order of rank, everybody has a\ncounterpart over there. Of course I do a lot of\nbusiness with Ron [Ronald L.] Ziegler. Helen Smith,\nwho's my assistant, did a lot of business with Jerry\n[Gerald L.] Warren, Ron Ziegler's assistant. Various\npeople in the press office, Julie Robinson and Cindy\n[Lucinda] Shumaker would deal with Jerry Warren or Tim\n[Timothy G.] Elbourne or [J.] Bruce Whelihan. Penny\n[Penelope A.] Adams in my office is responsible for\ntelevision set up and she would deal with Tim Elbourne,\nbecause he was responsible for television. The press\noffice, pretty much, had counterpart for counterpart,\nalthough the President's press office is much larger\nthan ours. So, ususally, someone on my staff would\n19\nhave about two people they would deal with on the West\nside.\nThen, of course, we dealt with the President's\nappointments office, and I would become the focal point\nfor coordinating Family calendars, and the appointments\nsecretary on Mrs. Nixon's side would deal with Mrs.\nNixon on which events she wanted to do, and the girls\nalso. So I was the coordinating point to coordinate\nthe calendars and the appointments secretary for Mrs.\nNixon would actually do the scheduling of the event,\nputting it on the calendar and getting the principal to\nagree for most of the routine events. As I say, on the\nlarger events, I would discuss them with Mrs. Nixon\nfirst, coordinate it with the President's office,\nappointments office, and then it would go on the\ncalendar.\nSY: How frequently did the President's appointments office\nrecommend events or recommend that an event, I mean an\ninvitation, not be accepted?\nCS: Oh dear\nSY: or was that [unintelligible]\n?\nCS:\nit's kind of hard to\nOh, that's very much a\npart of the operation. I'm trying to put a finger on\nthat\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS:\nas to how often. There was regular coordination\nbetween myself and whoever had the major\n20\nresponsibility. At one point, of course, it was Dwight\nChapin, early in the administration. And then Dwight\nbecame involved in some of the very major trips to\nChina and Russia, and so I would end up dealing with\nDavid Parker, who was more involved in the day-to-day\nscheduling of the President. I would say, oh, out of\nthe events Mrs. Nixon did, maybe fifteen to twenty\npercent of them would have been recommended by the West\nside. Based on the fact that it was something the\nPresident was asked to do, and he said he couldn't, and\nhe suggested that maybe Mrs. Nixon or one of the girls\nwould like to. And then after awhile, as the men\nbecame more and more used to what he felt he could not\ndo, but the Family might, they might just send\nsomething over here in the way of an idea without\nactually asking the President.\nVery rarely did they get into a position of saying\nthey didn't think Mrs. Nixon should do something. If\nthey didn't think she or the President would do it,\nthey'd simply turn it down for the President and not\neven send it over here for our consideration.\nSY: Well, did you send the proposed schedule to them\nCS: No.\nSY:\nfor their comments?\nCS: No.\nSY: The proposed schedule for Mrs. Nixon.\nCS: No. Because she has always said that she would like to\n21\nmake the judgment as to whether she was going to do a a\nparticular event or not. And if she had any questions\nherself, she asked the President [laughter]. And when\nshe had his reading on it, then we had a decision.\nYeah, occasionally, simply because I had some idea\nthat an invitation that was coming in, that came to\nMrs. Nixon, had also gone to the President, 'cause\noften, you know, you'd get an invitation for Mrs. Nixon\nand it's a carbon copy of one that went to the\nPresident. or it was something I had a little\nknowledge of some history about, you know, I had some\nbackground on it. I'd call to someone on the West side\nand just kind of bounce the idea off them, to get a\nreading from them, and often someone would be in a\nposition to say, \"Oh, the President's going to see that\ngroup. Don't worry about it.\" Or, \"Oh, in our\njudgment it's not such a good idea. Do whatever you\nwant, but in our judgment it isn't.\" So, that's the\ncoordinating function that I served anytime I saw\nsomething that to me kind of was a little flag, that\nmaybe I ought to check with somebody, I did. And\nsometimes it would be the appointments office, or\nsometimes it would be someone on the Domestic Council\nwho knew something, who was a specialist in the area of\nhealth, or education, or something like that. So there\nwas a good deal of coordination. And occasionally they\nwould recommend that it wasn't such a good idea. Then\n22\nI would simply let Mrs. Nixon know that here was an\ninvitation, but for the following reasons perhaps she\nwould prefer not to accept it. Sometimes she accepted\nanyway, and sometimes she didn't. The basic decision,\nthough, was Mrs. Nixon's always. And there was never\nreally a question of sending all the invitations or\neverything to the West side. Other than it's just good\nbusiness to stay in touch with people who, you know,\nmay have more knowledge about something than you do.\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: We do a lot of business with the curator's office. The\ncurator of the White House, as you know, is Clem\n[Clement E.] Conger, and his particular forte, while he\nhas been here, has been his ability to find marvelous\nworks of art and furniture and things that were in the\nWhite House, you know, a hundred and fifty years ago.\nAnd he is a fantastic scavenger. And, of course, Mrs.\nNixon has taken a particular interest in the House.\nBecause Clem basically works more with Mrs. Nixon than\ncertainly the President, and because we've done a lot\nof work here in the House, redecorating rooms and new\nacquisitions, and all that kind of thing. There's a\nvery close relationship between the curator's office\nand this office. Now, basically, I've been the link to\nthe curator's office, until a major event was coming up\nand we were opening the Green Room, and then his\nassistants would be in touch with my press office to\n23\nwork out the details.\nSY: Were you involved in actually , the actual planning for\nthe redecoration of the rooms?\nCS: No, not really, because, as you know, there is a\nCommittee for the Preservation for the White House\nhere, and they are the official body that sort of gives\nits blessing to what's being done. Mrs. Nixon and Clem\ndid hire several experts in various fields, not really\nhire, I shouldn't say that, these people were very\ngracious and volunteered their services to act as\nconsultants to the White House. And Mrs. Nixon was the\none who guided all of that. I occasionally would sit\nin on meetings. I did sit in on Committee for the\nPreservation of the White House meetings, more for the\nsake of staying informed on what was happening, so that\nwe could be prepared to handle press inquiries. I was\nreally not in the policy making decisions in those\nareas. I'm not an expert in furnishings, or any of\nthat type of thing.\nWe do stay in touch with the President's speech\nwriting office, and this happens at many levels. Mrs.\nNixon does not make lengthy and long speeches and we\ntend to draft remarks for her here, in our own\ncorrespondence office, or she writes her own speeches.\nOccasionally, for Mrs. Nixon, we did call upon the\nPresident's speech writing staff for speeches for Mrs.\nNixon, but in the last year, when Julie was actively\n24\nout campaigning or doing things for her father (Julie\ndoes like to make speeches) and so there was a heavy\nrequirement on the speech department for materials for\nJulie. So there was liaison between the appointments\noffice and the speech writing office, simply to let\nthem know an event was on the calendar and that remarks\nwere required. And then they would prepare them. The\nremarks would go directly to Julie or Tricia, if Tricia\nwere doing an event, with copies to this office so that\nwe were prepared. There were some instances in which\nwe wanted to release the speech ahead of time, which\nwas a practice we discontinued after awhile, because we\nfound that Tricia and Julie liked to revise their own\nspeeches, or act on the spur of the moment, and to be\nvery honest, as a press secretary, I had recommended\nright from the beginning we didn't release speeches\nahead of time. Because that's exactly what happens\n[laughter].\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: And these gals liked to, and rightfully so, react to\nthe spontaneity of the moment. And often we'd have,\nwell not often, but a couple of times, we'd have a\nstory that said, \"Julie Eisenhower deviated from her\nspeech, in which she was going to say such and such,\nbut she didn't And Julie preferred just not to have\nthat. It always raises the question as to why didn't\nshe say such and such? And it's just one more little\n25\nquestion that just, there's just no sense having it\nraised.\nSo, basically, speeches were back- were\nguidelines for the girls on what they might like to\nsay, and we kept copies on file just so we had what\nmaterials were provided to them. We had a very\ndifficult time, and we never really did solve the\nproblem, in tape recording the girls' remarks and\nproviding transcripts for the record, simply because\nthe technical facilities that we had available to us\nwere limited. This staff is too limited over here to\nbe involved in the business of transcripts. Julie\nwould be out four and five days a week, making six or\nseven speeches, and we were just so limited in the way\nof staff to be able to make sure these things were tape\nrecorded and that transcripts were made. That's\nsomething we don't have in the record. And it's\nprobably a lack.\nBut, as you know, when the President goes out and\nmakes speeches, he does have the support of White House\nCommunications [Agency] and they do record those\nspeeches, and transcripts are made available\nimmediately. But the presidential daughters don't get\nthe same kind of technical support. So it was always\nthe question of asking to hire or contract out for the\ntype of technical support, and we certainly didn't have\nthe money here at the White House to do that, and\n26\nsometimes it was difficult to ask a group to do that,\nso there is a lack in that area. There are not records\nof Julie and Tricia's remarks as given. O.K.?\nWe deal with the Navy photographic unit because\nthey take motion picture film of many of these events.\nI'm sorry, you were going to ask something?\nSY: No! No.\nCS: Oh, O.K. And I would deal with the photographic unit\non the basis of telling them we thought we had an event\nthey ought to cover, and requesting their presence.\nThen a member on the press staff would deal with them,\nlogistically, about where they should be, and what the\nlighting conditions would be, and did we want sound,\netc., etc.\nAnd of course I had a liaison with Herb [Herbert\nG.] Klein's office, and that basically was myself and\nHerb Klein's office. And it was a question of just\nkeeping each other informed and up to date. And, as\nyou know, they had a capability of doing some mailings\nand keeping people informed in the media as to what\ncertain programs were at the present, and occasionally\nwe would do something involved with the First Lady.\nThen, of course, the President's advance office,\nI've already mentioned that our appointments office was\nthe liaison there. Although normally I would be the\none that would be in touch with them to see if we could\nask the good services of one of their people to do some\n27\nadvancing for us, if we were already strapped and\ndidn't have somebody to do it. And then the\nappointments office would be in contact with them, to\nwork out the logistics and the specifics.\nSY: Hmm. That's one area you might expand on a little bit.\nDid the men in the advance office do most of the\nadvancing for the First Lady? I know on the Legacy of\nParks trip that was done mostly over here.\nCS: Well, we worked in a variety of ways. And, of course,\nit depended on need, it was based on need. I always\nfelt, and Mrs. Nixon felt too, that on what we would\ncall some of the more \"simple\" trips, that a member of\nher staff, who was trained in advance techniques, was\nperfectly capable of handling the arrangements. These\nwould be luncheons and dinners and teas. The type of\nevents that, perhaps, a man wouldn't have the natural\ninstincts, just to know how to handle it. And it would\nprobably be a group of eighteen hundred women anyway\n[laughter]. I felt that basically it was a lot easier\nfor a woman to advance those types of things. So, we\ndid have a gal on staff, Coral Schmid, who was trained\nin advance techniques and, of course, you always learn\non every trip. And she continued, of course, to gain\nexperience as she did these advances. And during the\nLegacy of Parks trip, which we took with Mrs. Nixon,\nthat entire trip was done by this staff and by, and was\nadvanced by members of her staff.\n28\nQuite frankly, this office is small enough that\neveryone needs to have some experience in almost every\nfacet of what goes on here. And that was an attempt to\ngive all the girls an opportunity to know what was\ninvolved when you're on the road, and what was required\nof staff, and how Mrs. Nixon operated, and kind of the\nproblems that you ran into. And it was very beneficial\nfor everybody. It trained a lot more women in how to\nadvance, and it gave everybody that experience of\nknowing why we get those strange phone calls after\nshe's been out someplace, and how some little old lady\nwants forty-six pictures and\n[laughter].\nAnd\nhow\nto\nhandle and answer those kinds of requests. And how\nvalid they really are. So that now we have three or\nfour girls here who are really quite capable of doing\nan advance.\nHowever, on a major trip, Mrs. Nixon does prefer\nto have a good, qualified advance man do the trip, and\nso do the girls. And particularly on a foreign trip,\nwe always have\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS:\nsomeone from [the] State [Department] and someone\nfrom here. Now, during the campaign period, when Mrs.\nNixon and Tricia and Julie were advancing we simply\ndidn't, were traveling, we simply didn't have the staff\nhere at all to cope with it, so a whole little\noperation was set up to advance the Family, and it was\n29\nbasically an operation of men.\nSY: Was that under this, under your direction?\nCS: No, it really was set up under a gentleman named Bill\n[William R.] Codus, and he and I worked together, but\nbasically, he reported directly to Mrs. Nixon, because\nit was the most expeditious way of handling things. As\nI say, when the staff is as small as ours is, you don't\nreally have the luxury of having your real staff\norganization, with everybody reporting to everybody.\nEverybody's scrambling [laughter]. You work together.\nYou don't end up really working for somebody.\nNow, depending on who has an area of expertise, as\nfar as press was concerned, I made those decisions.\nBut as far as an advance was concerned, Bill Codus made\nthose decisions, on the logistics, simply because it\nwas not humanly possible for one person to sit over\nhere, during that period, and be on top of everything,\nand make everything, make all decisions. Because I had\nan operating responsibility to run the press operation.\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: So I couldn't just sit there and make judgments. I was\nout doing things. So, it was a, and in my judgment it\nworked very very well. We had a nice team and we all\nworked together very well. So, it was a nice, well, I\ndon't find campaigns a nice experience, basically\n[laughter]. It was a good operating situation, I\nthink. We had our problems in the beginning,\n30\nstraightening out the lines of communication, but other\nthan that it worked, it worked very well.\nAnd then, of course, we coordinate with the\nmilitary aide's office, and that's on a variety of\nthings: use of aircraft for Mrs. Nixon; from the social\naspect, social aides; requirements for military bands;\ntransportation with cars, and things like that. So\nthere's a variety of liaison there, and every office on\nthis side, in one way or another, ends up dealing with\nthe military aide's office.\nSo, I suppose, to capsulize it, I would deal, on a\npolicy level, with most of these offices, and each of\nthe offices on Mrs. Nixon's staff would then, at an\noperational level, deal with all these offices.\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: I don't think I probably need to get into, too much,\nthe press secretary aspects. That's pretty well\ndocumented here, in my job description. The press\nsecretary is the official spokesman. I did give a\nnumber of, I didn't personally, I set up a number of\ninterviews for the Family, the girls and their\nhusbands. And would occasionally give one myslef, when\nit seemed appropriate. I tried not to give one on\nmyself, per se. I felt my job here was not to\npublicize myself, but to publicize the Family. So\nwhenever I could give an interview that I thought would\nbe helpful to the Family, I did. And when it was\n31\nsomething which seemed to be more pertaining to myself,\nI chose not to do that.\nThen, of course, there's all the mechanical things\nof running a press office. Making sure that your press\nfiles are good, that, you know, the press kits and\nbackground information are available on major events\nand trips. We also prepared, at certain points, when\nit seemed important that we did it, what we called news\nsummaries, not like the President's news summary, which\nis a daily summary. But we would do ours based on\nevents. A specific event would happen and we would--it\nwas a laborious task too. We would get local people to\ncall in with information of what was on the radio and\nthe TV and in newspapers. And it was much harder\ngetting it, because it was always local news coverage,\nnot networks and, well, sometimes it was network, but\nit was a more gruelling task to get that kind of\ninformation.\nThen, of course, there were special projects, and\nthis I might expand on a little bit 'cause I didn't\nhere [in the job description]. We considered Tricia's,\nor I consider Tricia's wedding a special project\n[laughter]. She did talk to Lucy and 1, in January of\n1971, to say that Ed and she were engaged and did plan\nto be married in June. And therewith started off six\nmonths of very intensive planning and coordinating and\norganizing, etc. And, of course, the press coverage of\n32\nthat alone was a massive thing to handle. There were\nseven hundred press, approximately, that covered it,\nand we only had four hundred guests, so the press out-\nnumbered the guests two to one. Now these were not\njust reporters, of course, they were technicians and\nthe various kinds of people that really are support\npeople to the press. But we issued almost seven\nhundred credentials, a little over seven hundred\ncredentials to cover that wedding. And it was a\nmassive undertaking and a great deal of coordinating.\nWe were removing press here and there.\nAnd, of course, Tricia wanted to maintain, and\nrightfully so, a certain amount of privacy to the\nwedding, and so we had to restrict coverage of the\nactual ceremony itself. And, I have to say, the press\ndid understand and were most cooperative about the\nwhole thing. But I think we had something like\nthirteen different pools of reporters. And there would\nbe, you know, six to ten reporters, and what we were\ntrying to do was give everybody an opportunity to\nactually see some part of the wedding. So we really\nhad to schedule it out on a minute to minute basis as\nto how long each aspect of the wedding would last, and\nhow many reporters and photographers could be in the\nroom, or in the garden, or wherever the devil it was.\nAnd I had to provide an escort service to move the\npools, a number of them, and, oh, my God! What a\n33\nbusiness it was [laughter].\nAnd then, of course, we had to take the White\nHouse tennis court and cover it over with a very\ncolorful yellow and white striped tent in order to\nprovide, really, a press room large enough to\naccommodate all the press that were here. And, of\ncourse, it rained the day of the wedding to complicate\neverything [laughter]. It was a very fun experience,\nit was a very happy occasion, of course. And it was a\nvery lovely occasion, so all the work seemed worth it.\nNow that would have been really the largest\nactivity that we coped with, because actually we did\nhandle all of those arrangements over here. Lucy, of\ncourse, as the social secretary, handled the details of\nthe wedding itself, and then my office and the press\noffice handled all those other peripheral things that\nwere involved in the wedding.\nWe did, of course, have Prince Charles and\nPrincess Ann visit here in July of 1970, and that was a\nrather massive undertaking also, because this office\nwas responsible for all of that planning. And I think\nthere was something like seventeen motorcades in three\ndays, and they visited, I don't know, fifteen different\nlocations. It was a question of not only moving the\nprincipals, but moving the press corps. And it was a\nlogistics nightmare. And, of course, the Prince and\nPrincess were not all that used to that type of press\n34\ncoverage, and it provided for certain problems in\nitself.\nSY: Were you responsible for the logistics of their whole\nstay in the United States?\nCS: They only were here in, yeah, I'm sure, they only came\nto Washington and returned to their country, so it was\njust a visit here. They had been in Canada, I'm sorry,\nbut they didn't visit anywhere else in the United\nStates\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS:\non that visit. So we were responsible here. Of\ncourse, when a state visitor like that comes--it really\nwasn't a state visit, it was a private visit the State\nDepartment, of course, gets involved, because it's\ntheir responsibility too. So they were involved. And\nonce again, it was a question of Lucy and I working\ntogether on that particular event, because she would be\nresponsible for the social amenities, and the planning,\nreally, of the social calendar. And then it was my\nresponsibility to see that the press got there, and\nmove them also. So I was in on both the planning,\nsimply because, as you plan an event like that, you\nhave to plan for the press contingency. Basically,\nTricia and Julie made the decisions of where they would\ngo and what they would want to do, and these things\nwere conveyed to the Prince and Princess before their\narrival, to see if that was the type of thing that they\n35\nwere interested in. And so there were a lot of people\nwho got involved. And that was a very, well there were\nportions of that that were rather difficult, but I\nthink the trip was successful and the Prince and\nPrincess enjoyed themselves, and that's what it's all\nabout. So it went fairly well.\nAnd then there were other, smaller scale, special\nevents that we do have here. Halloween parties for\nunderprivileged children and, of course, the Evenings\nat the White House, worship services, and things of\nthat nature, which really fall into a little bit of a\nspecial category. As opposed to a state dinner, which\nis obviously a function of the head of state. I've\nbecome responsible for, in the planning once again,\nbecause there are always press considerations, and then\nI'm responsible, operations-wise, to see that they are\ncovered, and that the ground rules are established,\netc.\nAnd then there have been a number of television\nspecials that we've done here in the White House, with\nthe Family, that have been my responsibility. Tricia\nCox, when she was Tricia Nixon, led a televised tour of\nthe second floor of the White House. Mrs. Nixon did a\nspecial with ABC, that was an hour long, which was\nreally a profile of the First Lady, and that was done\nboth here in the White House, on the road, and in\nCalifornia. We did a Christmas special one year that\n36\ninvolved all of the Family. One time we did a special\non a state dinner for \"60 Minutes,\" which is a\ntelevision program that, it's kind of a magazine\nformat. And that was the Italian state dinner several\nyears ago. Those are the only ones that come to mind\nright off the bat.\nBut that involves, of course, bringing in the\ncrews, and seeing that they are cleared, and that all\nthe technical things are set up, and that the Family is\nwell briefed on what their role is, and what it is we\nwill be doing. And then working with the producers,\nafterwards, if any supplementary material be required,\netc.\nAnd then we've become involved in motion pictures,\nin the documentary sense, both motion pictures and\nstill photography, documenting for history. And often\nwe will provide, as I've already mentioned, still\nphotographs in vast quantities to all kinds of people.\nAnd occasionally we will provide film footage from our\nhistoric files, over in the navy photographic\nlaboratory, for film or television people who may be\ndoing a special, or putting together some kind of\nprogram.\nSY: Did you review all of the footage\nCS: No.\nSY:\nor did someone [unintelligible]?\nSY: what we tried to do, because I come from a film\n37\nbackground, and I felt that rather than just having all\nof that footage stored away with no logical way to\nreally look at it, after several of her major events we\nmade an attempt to put a motion picture together. Not\nthat it was intended to be any kind of finished, final,\nglorious production that would, you know, end up on\nthe, you know, the screens of the local theatres, but\nthat it would be a record of what she had done. And so\nwe, we have produced a film on her volunteer trips,\nwhich is a good record of what she did in the voluntary\naction field. We produced a film on Tricia's wedding.\nWe produced a film on Mrs. Nixon's African trip. We\nproduced a film on her Peru visit. And that footage I\ndid screen. And I worked with a member of my staff,\nPenny Adams, on that, so that she screened some of it\nand I screened some of it. And then we would sit in as\nthe film was edited and came together, and we would\nprovide the technical advice on the script, and this,\nthat and the other thing. So that for history, there\nare some good recorded documents of what Mrs. Nixon\ndid.\nSY: Hmm.\nCS: And the daughers. Foriegn travel--basically on foreign\ntravel, I have accompanied Mrs. Nixon and made\narrangements for those press who travel and cover her\nspecifically. I'm not responsible, obviously, for the\nPresident's press corps, because Ron Ziegler handles\n38\nthat. And, of course, on trips like that you work with\nState Department people, USIA [United States\nInformation Agency] people. The trip we had the\nlargest press responsibility for was her African trip,\nbecause she went alone. And we took a press corps with\nus, and it was an extensive trip. I would say next in\nscale was, of course, her trip to Peru. She was\ntraveling alone, we took a press corps with us, and the\nresponsibility was mine. Now, when she accompanies the\nPresident of the United States, when she's both with\nhim and by herself, then we simply coordinate with Ron\nZiegler's staff. And in many instances kind of become\nalmost a part of his staff, because we need to work\ntogether, on the road, to see that all the information\ngets out to the press. I think that about covers,\nbasically, what I do.\nSY: which of those areas do you think would be the most\nsignificant, I guess, from basically an historical\npoint of view and also areas which are not as well\ndocumented, should be talked about, in more depth, at a\nlater time? As far as specifics. You know, we're\ntalking about\nCS: Well\nSY:\nmore in the realm of individual\nCS:\nquite obviously, when she travels and when she's out\ndoing things, that's well documented by the press.\nSY: Hm hmm.\n39\nCS: So that there are all kinds of records that exist of\nwhat she did, and where she went. Although, sometimes\nthe press records aren't necessarily the best\n[laughter] source of accurate information. [recording\nturned off]\n[Recording resumed] Well, I would think, as other\nmembers of this staff leave from time to time, for a\nvariety of reasons, that each one of them should be\ntalked to, from an operating point of view, as to what\nthey did. It's the staff operations, quite obviously,\nthat doesn't get well documented, because people make\njobs, jobs don't make people. And everybody brings\nsomething different and something new to a job out of\ntheir own experience and out of their own talents and\ninterests.\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: So that in my judgment, it would be important to, as\nyou have already done I know, talk to people as they\nleave this staff, or even if they're not leaving, to\nget an idea as to what they did. Because they would\nsee it differently, I'm sure, than I do.\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: And it would be more, I think they should be more\nconcentrated on what they did.\nSY: What about your relationship with Mrs. Nixon and the\ngirls? Did you have, literally, daily contact with the\nFirst Lady and the girls, when they were in town?\n40\nCS: Yeah, they're very good people to work for, in my\njudgment, because they're very responsive to their\nstaff, very available to their staff. So, yes, I'd say\nI had daily contact with Mrs. Nixon. of course it all\ndepended on how busy the schedule was, and what we were\ndoing, because when Mrs. Nixon does personal and\nprivate things, I mean, that's her affair, her\nbusiness. And, for instance, when she would go to New\nYork shopping for clothes, or something like that, I\ncertainly would not accompany her. There would be no\nneed for my being there.\nOur role was to deal with the public side of their\nlife. But, in so doing, there are times when you can't\nhelp but avoid the private parts of it. That is,\nsomething like a wedding, which falls somewhere in\nbetween being private and public. And, of course, at\ncertain times, when one of the girls got sick, Tricia\ngot the measles once [laughter], and she would have\npreferred that, you know, her health record wasn't\nappearing in the newspaper, but the insatiable desire\nof the press to know all, you know, you have to be able\nto provide information even on the private life.\nSo, Mrs. Nixon and I have had a very close working\nrelationship, and I'd say it would boil down to maybe,\non an average, once or twice a week she and I would sit\ndown for maybe an hour or two and try to go over a\nvariety of things. And then, in between time, there'd\n41\njust be daily phone contact, on a variety of major or\nminor questions that would come up.\nSY: Hm hmm. Unlike in the West Wing, though, you had a\nclose contact with, a close enough contact with the\nFirst Lady that you were really kind of carrying out\nher decision on social events, or on\nCS: Oh, yeah.\nSY:\npress coverage.\nCS: Yeah. I had a very close relationship with her.\nSY: Hm hmm. Whereas, when you had\nCS: She's my friend and\nSY:\nso many, when you had so many events, you know,\n[unintelligible].\nCS:\nshe's become my mother [laughter] and, you know, we\nmother each other [laughter]. And to a lesser extent\nwith the daughters, simply because they weren't here\nall the time. Julie would be in school or down in\nJacksonville, Florida, or\nTricia's been here a\ngreat deal of the time, but their schedules just are\nnot as heavy. The demands upon them are not as much.\nAnd Mrs. Nixon's the pro in the Family, and the girls,\nher daughters, will turn to her too.\nNow, in the same respect, Mrs. Nixon has a good\nrelationship with the rest of the staff too. I have\nnever required, nor has she, that every idea, or\nthought, or question had to come through me before it\nwent to Mrs. Nixon. For the sake of sparing her time,\n42\nit was always kind of just an unwritten procedure that\nmost people came to me and I would go to her. So that\nit was just one person dealing with her, rather than\nsix or seven bothering her on various aspects of the\nsame problem. But, in those instances when, you know,\nI was away, or if she had a direct question and knew\none of the other girls would have the answer, there was\ngood contact between the various members of the staff\nand members of the Family. Which was very nice.\nSY: Well, I think some members of the staff are really kind\nof a, Cindy [Cynthia A.] Vanden Heuvel was really kind\nor assigned to take care of\nCS: Yes, now that's a little bit of a unique situation.\nThere's a young lady named Cindy Vanden Heuvel here,\nwho really has grown into being almost the personal\nsecretary for Tricia and Ed and David and Julie.\nSimply because the girls were not here a lot of the\ntime, but they have mail that needs to be handled and\nthis, that and the other thing. That sort of evolved,\nand was a very sensible thing that evolved. And she's\nkind of a personal assistant and secretary to all four\nof them, [laughter] which is pretty demanding. But\nthat's kind of on the personal level. She's kind of a\npersonal secretary to them. Cindy doesn't get\ninvolved, really, in the public scheduling and all that\ntype of thing.\nSY: Hm hmm.\n43\nCS: But it kind of gave the girls someone, here on the\nstaff, that they could call for little, little things\nthat they wanted done quietly and personally.\nSY: Hm hmm. All of the articles and whatever that have\nbeen written on the First Lady's staff operation, are\nthere any which stand out to you as being particularly\naccurate, or particularly good in a certain area?\nCS: No, not really, because the press is not really\ninterested in staff and how it operates, other than it\noperate well enough that they can do their job. And if\nthere's something a little sensational going on, they'd\nlike to write about that too. That's not meant as\ncriticism, that's just the nature of news. There isn't\na reader in America who really wants to know all the\ndetails of how this staff operates. The press corps\nknows that, so they're not going to write about it.\nThere'v been a couple of articles written on the\nstaff and, in my judgment, they really weren't a fair\nrepresentation of what went on here. It has been\nwritten that Mrs. Nixon has the largest staff of any\nFirst Lady. The press always likes to write that\nsomething is the most, or the biggest, or the oldest,\nor the worst, or the best [laughter]. This is not the\nlargest staff. I took a look at Mrs. [Lady Bird]\nJohnson's staff when I came in here, and Mrs. Johnson,\nI think, oh, I'd have to go back and look again now, I\nthink she had two more people, really, than Mrs. Nixon\n44\ndoes. Because Mrs. Johnson had a personal secretary\nand she had a couple of people on staff that handled\nher beautification program. So that she basically\nended up having a couple of more bodies, really, than\nMrs. Nixon does. And this is also supposed to be the\nhighest paid staff in the history of the First Lady.\nWell, that doesn't really quite hold up either. Simply\nbecause the salaries of this staff are based on what's\nhappening in the government and the natural increases\nthat have happened in government salaries and this,\nthat and the other thing. So, comparatively, I don't\nthink it's the highest paid staff either. I think\nhistory should reflect that fairly. I think Mrs.\nNixon hasdone a great deal on a very economical staff.\nWe've had people come through here doing little\nmanagement surveys and things, and they were very\nsurprised that as much work was done out of here with\nas few people, with as good a spirit and esprit de\ncorps as we have here. In Allen Drury's book, that he\nwrote about the President, Hesita--, Courage and\nHesitation, his [unintelligible] even say this is one\nof the busiest and active, (activist?), active shops in\nthe White House. It is a busy and active place.\nThough we all work very closely together, nobody guards\ntheir prerogatives very jealously around here\n[laughter]. And it's because of the feeling we have\nfor the lady upstairs.\n45\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: You know, we operate like she does. She's a very warm\nand generous and gracious woman. She's very efficient,\nshe's very businesslike. But very down to earth, very\nopen, so we like to think that's how we operate too.\nSY: Hm hmm. Where are your files, other than in the First\nLady's file section of Central Files?\nCS: I'm not very good on knowing files.\nSY: Where's the\nCS: I did not personally keep much up here in my office,\nspecifically, at all. My assistant, of course, my\nsecretary, kept all those files and she only has a\nlittle file cabinet there, and when it got too full she\nsent them all (quote) to Central Files (unquote). So I\nthink that's where my files are, anything that would\nreally be under my name, in Mrs. Nixon's section.\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: So, my files are limited, really. Things that I do\neither ended up in the press office, or the\nappointments office, or the social office, or someplace\nelse. And there wasn't a lot of need to maintain a lot\nof files here, in my shop specifically, because I\nalways operated on the basis, off my desk and onto\nyours [laughter]. So that, you know, there was no\nsense my keeping terribly extensive files here.\nSY: Will most of your activities be documented in the files\nand be attributed to you or to other staff members who\n46\nworked on them?\nCS: I'd say, basically, yes, they would, in most instances\nI think you would\nYou know, I have this dreadful\nfear. I don't type very well at all. But I write even\nworse. So I sit there and bang out all these little\nmemos to the staff on my typewriter, and oh, my dear!\nThe spelling is atrocious, and sometimes even\nembarrassing, because I come up with words that\n[laughter]\nI have a terrible fear that all those\nlittle notes are sitting in files someplace--0h! And\nsomebody's going to discover them someday [laughter].\nSY: Actually, those are types of little notes which are\nprobably more valuable than the end product which goes\nout to the press.\nCS: On yeah, well, I'm sure they are, they're all on blue\npaper and dreadful [laugher]. But, I mean, I'd sit\nhere and type something and it went out to somebody\nelse on the staff. And invitations, or anything that\nI handled, I always, after the basic decision was made\non them, I really had to, obviously, give them to\nsomebody to be expedited. So the files would probably\nbe in somebody else's name.\nSY: With all those little blue notes, I hope. I hope they\nsaved them\nCS: Well.\nSY:\nonce they went ahead and did what\nCS: [Groan] [laughter].\n47\nSY: Well, of course, the library would not, won't even be\nopen for another four years, and then there'll be such\na long time\n....\nCS: Well, there are some classics in there, I'll tell you\n[laughter].\nSY: There'll be such a long time before everything is open\nto the public.\nCS: Hmm.\nSY: But, we're hoping that, you know, the interviews that\nwe have been doing, and these staff books that were\ndone, will help that, you know, once somebody does go\nto the files, to know what's there.\nCS: You know we try to think of you as we do these various\nthings. We just finished one off, which I believe you\nhave a copy of\n:\nSY: Uh huh.\nCS:\nand that's that four year summary of activities,\nwhich should stand as, probably, the best document on\nwhat the Family did.\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: And when they did it. We do intend to kind of review\nthat again and go back and check for sure, because\nthings always slip between the cracks, things that are\nscheduled at the last minute, or cancelled because of\nan illness, or something else taking its place. But\nthat's about as accurate as we can be right now, and we\nhope to even do a little better on that one.\n48\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: So that, along with this book on operations, really is\nthe best record of the first four years.\nSY: Hmm. What is your new position at the State\nDepartment?\nCS: I'm going to the State Department in the cultural\naffairs department and I will be the, if I can learn to\nsay all this, it's the deputy director of the Office of\nthe International Visitors Program.\nSY: International Visitors Program.\nCS: Hm hmm. These are the many people from foreign\ncountries that come to the United States, for a variety\nof reasons, you know, because they're going to study\nhere, or, you know, tour hospitals, or something in the\neducational areas. Also performers, entertainers,\npainter, artists, a variety of people who come to this\ncountry. And, of course, the hope being that, by their\nbeing here and our giving them the best possible\nopportunity to see the United States that, when they\nreturn home, their impressions of the United States\nhave got to be better than any press release, or\nbooklet, or movie or anything we can produce. So I'm\nreally looking forward to it. It'll be another aspect\nof the government and, you know\nSY: Right. One thing I didn't ask you: how did you first\njoin the staff here?\nCS: My husband went to work on the campaign in 1968.\n49\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS: And he started as volunteer one day a week, and six\nmonths later left his job, [laughter] on a leave of\nabsence, to join the campaign full time. And when I\nhad time from my job I would volunteer. I was\ntraveling with the, for the telephone company at the\ntime, doing some work in the motion picture field and\nin television. And occasionally we'd link up in the\nsame city at the same time, like in Boston, or\nCleveland, or something like that. And so I'd dive in\nfor the weekend and, you know, pick up Julie and David\nat the airport, or get somebody someplace. So I came\nto know the Family and the other members of the staff,\nwho then became part of the White House staff. My\nhusband, after the election, was asked to join the\nstaff, which he did. My husband, my company\ntransferred me down here, and after I'd been here\nawhile, and working in the Washington area, I was asked\nif I'd like to come over and chat with Mrs. Nixon about\nthe possibility of my coming on the staff. And since I\nhad met a variety of people during the campaign, and\nthen there was my background, my skills, etc. So,\nthat's how it happened.\nSY: Hm hmm. And you, do you expect your current home\naddress to be a fairly permanent address, where\nCS: I sure do.\nSY:\nsomeone might reach you\n50\nCS: I hope SO.\nSY:\nfive or ten years from now?\nCS: I hope I die there [laughter].\nSY: I think that's in the file. There's something that I\nneed from you and, from what you said, you won't be\nable to fill out the number of boxes, but to indicate\non here, where your files have been sent. This is part\nof the White House staff manual. The other sheets that\nI handed you which, as you probably know, did not\nreceive wide distribution. And that was kind of\nunfortunate from our point of view, because it does\noutline the procedures for the disposition of papers\nwhen you leave the staff, and the thing, you know, the\ndefinition of presidential papers, being anything that\nis created\nCS: Yeah, I have seen this, and I know I've asked that my\noffice do this on a regular basis, which is why I say\nI, you know, in the process of kind of cleaning out my\noffice here, I went through what I have in a little\nfile cabinet over there, and found that I really didn't\nhave much at all. Because we, on a regular basis we\ndon't have storage space up here, so it always\nSY:\nHm hmm.\nCS:\nwent to Central Files. But I'll do one last\ncheck\nSY: Right.\nCS:\nand ask my gal where she's been sending things\n51\n[laughter].\nSY: O.K. And then you will come up with the form somewhere\nthat has the list of signatures that eventually goes to\nBruce Kehrli on, when you turn in your security, your\nWhite House pass, and when you turn in your\nCS: Yes, I've already talked to him about that.\nSY:\ndictaphones and your\nCS: I'm going on vacation for awhile\nSY: Hm hmm.\nCS:\nbut when I come back from vacation I'll just go\nthrough that\nSY: Right.\nCS:\nwhole magillah and\nSY: Yeah, well we're\nCS:\nI've already started some of that\n[unintelligible]\nSY:\non that, what I was getting to, we're on that list\nand\nCS: oh, I see what you mean.\nSY:\nthis is the other part of what we're trying to get\nfrom that list. I just thought I'd bring that over in\nadvance, because, you know, people come wandering in\nthe door and they say, \"Will you sign my form?\"\nCS: Well, once I fill this out shall I send this to you, or\ndo you\nSY: Yeah, just send that\nCS:\nwant me to hold it until that\n?\n52\nSY:\nover to us in, or with the form.\nCS: I'd like to get as much of this out of the way as\npossible now\nSY: Right.\nCS:\nso I don't end up, you know\nSY: Fine.\nCS:\none day, running around here\nSY: That's, that's fine.\nCS:\ndoing seventeen things. So I'll try and take care\nof this today and get it over to you.\nSY: O.K., fine. [Unintelligible]. And, if anytime there's\nareas that you think should be documented in a, you\nknow, more specific area, we'd, we'll be there.\nCS: O.K.\nSY: And I'm sure that the Nixon oral\n[End of recording]\n53\nName index\nto exit interview with Constance Stuart\nconducted by Susan Yowell\nin Mrs. Stuart's office in the East Wing of the White House\non March 15, 1973\nName\nPage Number\nAdams, Penelope A.\n19,38\nAnn, Princess\n34,35,36\nChapin, Dwight L.\n21\nCharles, Prince\n34,35,36\nCodus, William R.\n30\nConger, Clement E.\n23,24\nCox, Edward R.F.\n7,14,32,43\nCox, Tricia Nixon\n7,9,14,25,27,29,32,33,35,36,38,41,42,43\nDavies, John S.\n17\nDoss, Martha\n1\nDrury, Allen S.\n45\nEisenhower, David\n7,14,43,50\nEisenhower, Julie Nixon\n7,11,12,14,24,25,26,27,29,35,42,43,50\nElbourne, Timothy G.\n19\nFarrell, Michael J.\n17\nFox, Sanford L.\n8\nJohnson, Lady Bird\n44,45\nKehrli, Bruce A.\n52\nKlein, Herbert G.\n27\nParker, David N.\n21\nRobinson, Julie\n19\nSchnid, Coral F.\n28\nShumaker, Lucinda (\"Cindy\")\n19\n1\nName\nPage number\nSmith, Helen M.\n10,12,15,19\nStuart, Charles E.\n49,50\nVanden Heuvel, Cynthia A.\n43\nWarren, Gerald L. (\"Jerry\")\n19\nWhelihan, J. Bruce\n19\nWinchester, Lucy A.\n7,8,17,19,32,34,35\nZiegler, Ronald L.\n19,38,39\n2"
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