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2009-0275-S
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This is not a textual record. This is used as an
administrative marker by the George Bush Presidential
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Record Group/Collection:
George H.W. Bush Presidential Records
Collection/Office of Origin: Scowcroft, Brent, Collection
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Media Articles Files
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June 1992
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O
JUNE
received 6/8/92
WASHINGTON IN BRIEF
Shultz, Weinberger 'subjects' of I
By Ernie Freda
STAFF WRITER
Iran-contra prosecutors have been questioning former Secr
of State George Shultz and former Defense Secretary Ca
Weinberger, who told Congress four years ago that they knew h
about the Reagan administration's secret arms sales to Iran wt.
they were in the Cabinet. The Associated Press said knowledgeal
sources told it that prosecutors want to know if the two men lied. M
Shultz told the AP that prosecutors told him he is a subject of thei,
probe.
Being a "subject" means one's conduct is within the scope of a
grand jury investigation. It is less serious than being a "target," a
person the prosecutor can link to a crime with substantial evidence.
The nearly 51/2-year-old look into the Reagan administration's worst
scandal is approaching a critical point. The federal grand jury hear-
ing evidence is scheduled to go out of business May 15.
THE THOUGHT'S ENOUGH, THANK YOU: White House
national security adviser Brent Scowcroft will ac-
cept the honor - but not the money. He's the winner
of the first Eisenhower Leadership Prize, awarded
by Gettysburg (Pa.) College and its affiliate, the Ei-
senhower World Affairs Institute. The award, but
without the $25,000 that goes with it, will be present-
ed at a black-tie dinner for 1,000 guests June 5 at the
Washington Hilton. Mr. Scowcroft, who has served
five presidents, has asked the institutions to use it to
further their leadership development programs.
Brent
"He probably could have accepted it, but as a
Scowcroft
Dwight Eisenhower clone, he wanted no misper-
ception of impropriety whatsoever," said Jane Kratovil, executive
director of the institute.
THE WASHINGTON POST
THE FEDERAL PAGE
June17,1992
FINANCIAL DISCLOSURES: A SAMPLING
WHITE HOUSE STAFF
Quayle Family Values
Samuel K. Skinner,
Brent Scowcroft,
C. Boyden Gray,
Clayton Yeutter,
White House chief of
national security
White House
domestic policy
staff.
adviser.
Counsel.
adviser.
Include Summer Jobs
Gifts:
Gifts:
Holdings:
Salary and fees:
$3,200 Christmas
$135 gold-and-
Three trusts worth
$150,000 as
party at Morton's of
silver letter opener
more than $1 million
chairman of the
Sons Find Work on Capitol Hill
Chicago restaurant
from Queen
each.
Republican National
in Georgetown.
Elizabeth = of
Two rental houses
Committee.
$2,732 exercise
England.
in Maine; one in
$50,000 consul-
Vice President Quayle's two sons have been
machine from Life Fitness Inc. of Franklin
$150 six lead crystal wine glasses,
North Carolina.
tant to the National Bank for
spending some of their summers in a place their
Park, III.
from Vaclav Havel of Czechoslovakia.
Undeveloped land in Warrenton, Va.,
Cooperatives.
father has been condemning as yet another
$250 "Big Bertha" golf driver from Ely
$180 brown leather briefcase from
and commercial rental properties in
$18,966 in director fees
bloated federal bureaucracy: Capitol Hill.
Callaway, Carlsbad, Calif.
President Turgut Ozal of Turkey.
Washington.
from FMC Corp.
Roll Call reported yesterday that Tucker
$150 Comiskey Park chair, from Jerry
$16,700 in director fees
Quayle, 17, worked as a summer mail carrier in
Reinsdorf, president of Chicago White Sox
from Caterpillar Inc.
1990 and 1991 for the Senate Post Office, earn-
baseball team.
$3,775 in director fees from
ing nearly $4,000. The vice president's younger
SOURCE: Financial disclosure statements
Oppenheimer Funds.
son, Benjamin, 14, earned $842 during one
THE
WASHINGTON
POST
month as a Senate page last year and now is
completing another two-week tour as a page.
Quayle, who has served in the House and Sen-
Skinner Pays for $6,000 in Gifts, Quits Club Board
ate, frequently has criticized the size of congres-
sional staffs. He declared Friday in a speech to the
Federalist Society that "reducing congressional
gift, but was uncertain how to value the membership
staff is about as likely as my taking a guest spot on
By Charles R. Babcock
$2,732.02 to pay for an exercise machine he received a
Washington Post Staff Writer
year earlier from its maker, Life Fitness Inc. of Frank-
because charter members have no equity in the club or
'Murphy Brown.' The vice president was refer-
lin Park, III. He made the payments two days before he
rights to transfer the membership.
ring to the television comedy series featuring
White House Chief of Staff Samuel K. Skinner ac-
had to file his annual financial disclosure statement.
Skinner resigned as a member of the board of gov-
Candice Bergen as an unwed mother whom
cepted nearly $11,000 in gifts last year and recently
Skinner accepted Morton's receptions as gifts in
ernors in March and changed his status to that of "play-
Quayle described as a poor role model.
paid for two others worth almost $6,000 "to eliminate
1989 and 1990, listing their value at $5,000. He re-
ing member," which means he pays dues, but doesn't
David Beckwith, a Quayle spokesman, could not
any questions that might arise based upon his new,
ceived gifts from the fitness company, a former client,
have to pay the $50,000 fee. The "gift" was in effect
be reached for comment yesterday. He was
broader duties," according to a note on his financial dis-
when he was a private lawyer, the aide said.
"returned" when he changed his status, the statement
quoted by Roll Call as saying that the Quayle boys
closure statement.
The aide, who asked not to be identified, said part of
said.
got their jobs through the office of Howard O.
Skinner recently resigned his position on the board of
the reason for Skinner's actions was Washington's in-
The disclosure statements of other senior White
Greene Jr., secretary for the Senate minority.
governors of the Robert Trent Jones Golf Club in
creased sensitivity to such issues.
House officials were also released late Tuesday.
"They grew up in a Senate family and they knew
Manassas-which he joined last year without having to
Skinner's predecessor, John H. Sununu, resigned last
Sununu's termination report showed that he received
all about these jobs," Beckwith told Roll Call.
pay a $50,000 initiation fee or the $3,600 annual dues.
December, in part, because of the controversy caused
several gifts and reimbursements of travel expenses,
The newspaper reported that Quayle is not
He will now pay the dues, the statement added.
by press accounts of his mixing personal, political and
including some he made after inquiries about his use of
the only Republican who has been critical of the
Skinner said in a brief interview yesterday that he
official travel on expensive military jets.
government jets.
congressional bureaucracy but whose children
decided this year, after leaving his post as secretary of
Skinner reported accepting reimbursements and gifts
He also reported accepting $896 in airfare from
had secured summer jobs on Capitol Hill. Amelia
transportation for White House chief of staff in Decem-
from 29 individuals and organizations worth more than
Mary Kay Cosmetics in February for a trip to Dallas
Thomas, the daughter of Rep. William M.
ber to accept no gifts and to resign from all his outside
$27,000 last year, much of it in travel and lodging on
"incident to employment discussions." Sununu's gifts
positions. "I just feel I have so much to do here that if I
Thomas (R-Calif.), earned $3,598 as a tempo-
political trips. He also listed $1,988 worth of transpor-
included $253 of Baltimore Orioles baseball tickets
rary worker in the House Post Office in 1989
go the extra mile I avoid any possible questions. It's the
tation, food and expenses for himself and his wife paid
from owner Eli Jacobs and $210 worth of golf clubs
smart thing to do. The job is so broad I don't know
and 1990, Roll Call reported.
by Secretary of Treasury Nicholas F. Brady during a
from professional golfer Ray Floyd.
where a question can come from."
National security adviser Brent Scowcroft reported
DJ Berinstein, a spokeswoman for Thomas,
trip to the Kentucky Derby, memberships in the
Skinner's lifestyle as a Cabinet member has been
Georgetown and Capitol Hill clubs, the $3,600 in mem-
receiving 15 gifts from foreign officials, ranging from
acknowledged yesterday Amelia Thomas had
under scrutiny for several months. CBS's "60 Minutes"
bership dues from the Robert Trent Jones Golf Club,
German wine and Czech wine glasses to two dozen red
worked on the Hill but defended the postal job.
reported May 1 on his extensive use of expensive gov-
and presents from friends such as golf equipment.
roses from the ambassador of Bahrain and his wife.
"It was not a patronage position. She went down
ernment aircraft for travel while secretary of transpor-
The financial disclosure statement noted that Skinner
Scowcroft also reported receiving $41,331 in mili-
and applied for it. Those are really hard, phys-
tation. The Washington Post reported May 14 that
was one of about 30 individuals invited to become char-
tary retirement pay. His largest holding was an invest-
ical jobs," Berinstein said.
Skinner reimbursed the government $3,275 just before
ter members of the Manassas golf club. Charter mem-
ment valued between $500,000 and $1 million he made
-Bill McAllister
the television report aired, after White House lawyers
bers were not required to pay the $50,000 initiation fee
in a mutual fund called Investment Co. of America early
told him some of the travel could be viewed as more
established for regular members and didn't have to pay
last year. He bought between $250,000 and $500,000
personal than official.
monthly dues for three years, the statement said.
of New Perspective Fund, and smaller amounts of two
An aide said yesterday that Skinner wrote one check
The Department of Transportation's general counsel
other funds the same day.
on May 13 for $3,200 to Morton's of Chicago to pay for
approved Skinner's acceptance of the membership. The
Clayton Yeutter, the president's domestic policy ad-
a Christmas reception, and another the same day for
aide said Skinner listed the $3,600 in waived dues as a
viser, reported earning $150,000 as chairman of the Re-
publican National Committee, $50,000 for consulting
with the National Bank for Cooperatives in Denver and
board of director fees in 1991 from FMC Corp., Cater-
pillar Inc. and Oppenheimer Funds. He reported no gifts.
WHICH 4-OZ. CAN OF BEAN SOUP WOULD YOU EAT?
White House counsel C. Boyden Gray listed no gifts.
He did report having three trust funds worth at least $1
PERCENT OF DAILY VALUE (DV)
AMOUNT
DAILY
VALUE
(tiv)
+
million each, as well as several pieces of rental and in-
Fat (3g)
Fat
LOW
75
or
less
vestment property in Maine, Virginia and North Carolina.
Saturated fat (2g)
Saturated fat
MEDIUM 2g
25
or
less
Marilyn Quayle in 1991, with
and daughter Corinne
THE WASHINGTON&POST
WORLD NEWS
New U.S. Sanctions
Imposed on Serbia
Baker Reports Talks on Breaching Blockade
By Don Oberdorfer
keeping force in Sarajevo, Mai
Washington Post Staff Writer
Gen: Lewis MacKenzie, may soon
report to the world body that his
Secretary of State James A Bak
mission has failed, thus precipitat
er III, declaring the killing of de
ing another round of decision-mak-
fenseless civilians in Bosnia to be
ing by the U.N. Security Council
"an absolute outrage," announced
that could center on the use of mil-
new U.S. sanctions against Serbia
itary force to open Sarajevo airport
yesterday and said international
and food distribution channels for
consultations are underway about
humanitarian assistance.
military steps to end the blockade
Baker said the administration has
of humanitarian assistance
ruled out unilateral use of U.S.
The new sanctions, which are
force to achieve a political settle
lar gely symbolic, are extensions of
ment in Yugoslavia, but it has not
U U.S. diplomatic that were an-
ruled out participating in a multi
nounced by Baker May 22 and ap
lateral operation to provide human-
BY
RAY
THE
pear to have had little effect on the
itarian assistance.
Secretary Bakersaid administration has ruled out unilateral use of U.S force.
fighting and atr ocities in the former
Presidential national security ad-
Yugoslavia. Baker suggested that
viser Brent Scowcroft hinted in a
no recent meetings of the National
Baker also announced the admin-
more forceful action may be com-
speech Monday that the administra
Security Council or its deputies
ration is closing the Yugoslav
ing, telling the Senate Foreign Re-
tion may be inching possible
committee on the Yugoslav fight
consulate in Chicago which was.left
lations Committee that "as this
military intervention on a humanitar
ing suggesting that a new military
open on May 22 when other con-
nightmare drags on, the willing
ian mission, saying the continued
decision ismot imminent
sulates were ordered closed Addi
ness of nations around the world to
fighting risks "impinging on the in
Baker, declaring that the time
tionally, the said the United States
tolerate it is going to diminish and
terests of the Euro Atlantic commu-
has come for us to do more," an-
will undertake a more active drive
diminish and diminish
nity: U.S. officials said there thas
mounced that the United States will
to suspend Serbia and its small ally,
It's hard to believe really in this
been extensive contingency planning
no longer accept an ambassador from
Montenegro, from the United Na-
day and age that armed forces will
between the Joint Staff in Washing-
the Belgrade government, which
tions:and other international organ-
fire rtillery and mortar indiscrim
ton and the U.S. European Command
Washington holds responsible for
izations, where they typically occu-
inately into the heart of a city, flush-
staff in Stuttgart, Germany trabout
inspiring the Serbian:militias that are
py the former Yugoslav.seat
ing defenseless men, women and
what action would be taken if U.S.
perpetrating much of the violence
children out in the street and then
forces were/ordered to make a forc
Officials said Ambassador Drevad
Staffwriter Barton Gellmanan
shooting them, Baker declared
ible entry into Sarajevo
Mujezinovic, who is ainative Bosnian
Washington.and special
Administration officials said that
No such order is currently antic
and described as an honest messen
correspondent revor Rowe at the
if the fighting continues unabated
ipated at the Pentagon A White
ger, may be relieved of his accred-
United Nations contributed this
the commander of the U.N. peace
House official said there have been
itation but may not be expelled.
report.
THE NEW YORK TIMES INTERNATIONAL WEDNESDAY, JUNE 24, 1992
A9
Baker Hints at the Use of American Forces to Supply Sarajevo
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
peacemaking betweenithe warring fac-
Special to The York Times
tions.
A signal to
The Secretary responded that the
don't really know what the answer is
Administration had not truled but
here
WASHIN une 23 Secretary
No ejistalking about us trying to
we haven't in but that
of State James A. Baker 3d signaled
solve the Yugoslav civil war, a senior
Belgrade that it
truled participating.in some mul-
**Special The New York Times
today "that the Bush Administration
Administration of ficial said after Mr
tilateral operation if that shoul be
UNITED NATIONS June
had become more willing to consider
Baker's appearance today, The Unit
cannot count on
come necessary stoget relief supplies
another effort end the fighting in
committing merican forces to a Unit
ed States' objective here is humanitar
to Sarajevo.
Bosnia and Herzegovina, Lord Carring.
ed Nations effortito get relief supplies
ian-relief
U.S. inaction.
SKINT
ton a European Community mediator
But the official said that Mr. Baker
Preferred Route
into Sarajevo, the besieged capital of
convene stalks on Thursday with
Bosnia and Herzegovina
remarks indicated a growing aware-
STATE
Serbian, Croatian and Muslim leaders
Speaking before the Senate Foreign
the Administration
For the moment, the Administra
from the area M/C
Relations Committee, Mr. Baker said
might not be possible to provide that
and that the Administration would in:
tion' s clear preference is only
con
The president of the Serbian repub-
relief under a United Nations cease-
tensify its push for the suspension of
tribute airlift and
to
that American military planners were
lic. Slobodan Milosevic is expected
holding "intensive consultations with
fire, even though that remains the pref-
Yugoslavia from international organi
any United Nations aid operation
But
ttend the talks, be held in Stras
erence, and that American and other
zations and institutions.
if rican-planes and soldiers are
other members of the Security Council
bourg, France. :So is President Franjo
at the United Nations over how to get
foreign might have to provide an
Administration officials said that in
involved they are going to need pt
udjmanof Groatia The:Bosnian Prest
food and medicine into Sarajevo, which
airlift the midst of arshooting war in
his remarks Mr. Baker was trying to
tion if redupon which would
ident, Alija Izetbegovic, is pinned.down
is ringed by Serbian forces
Bosnia.
send signal Belgrade:that if aid
require some sort combat
inSarajevo
200
not begin cooperating with the United
Senator oseph R. Biden Jr. a Dela
Within the Administration, Mr Bak
Nations crelief operation it mighteno
Administration officials said
YIII the talks can produce a cease-fire
ware Democrat, told Mr. Baker that to
er and President Bush's isecu
intand round Sarajevo, ts say,
rity adviser, Brent Scowcroft, have
longer be able to count ton American
less the United States took the lead
continue waiting forthe United Nations
the United Nations Secretary General,
to negotiate a cease-fire that would
been the most willing to, consider
inaction. They said that another of Mr
organizing a real international copity
Boutros Boutros Ghali, swill orderna
Baker's objects was to begin condition-
tion, backed by military muscl
allow- easy access to Sarajevo could
Americaninvol in such an
battalion of Canadian peacekeeping
ation, if there no other choice, while
ing the American public and Congress
restrain the Serbs and getaid to Bosnia
mean waiting forever. To get humani
little would happen. But they noted
troops move from Groatia toisectime
supplies to the city will require a
Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney and
to the idea of American forces taking
and reopen Sarajevo airport, which
"force sufficient to insist that it be
part in United Nations relief operations
that the Administration did enot
Gen. Colin L. Powell, Chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff, have been less
in
Bosnia.
enough interests stake
been under theavy fire from irregular
deliver Mr. Biden.said
to risk becoming embroiled war
forces occupying the nearby hills. 901
enthusiastic.
Many Senators on the committee
TMr Baker responded, 'Well, I.don'
This in turn would allow the United
particularly prominent Democrats like
there ticular lv.in an relection wear
disagree with:that, and more and more
States and other aid donors to start
A Signal to Belgrade
the chairman Claiborne Pelhof Rhode
that looking like It is absolutelyitrue.
Scowcroft.noted in speech
ying in food?medicine and other this
Mr. Baker declared that the United
Island Mr. Biden and Paul Simon of
before the Council on Monday
manitar ian'supplies.
EGW
Mr Baker emphasized that the Bush
States would no longer accept the Bel-
Illinois supported American involve-
'On'the one hand there is the itrepida-
If the Strasbourg meeting produces
Administration had no intention of act
grade Government's Ambassador in
ment military relief operation. Mr
tion of involvement in the kind
many diplomatsisay the
ecoming involved in any-
Washington, that Washington would
Simon told M Baker would support
of conflict possible. On the other there
Security to coh-
thing beyond providing humanitarian
close the remaining Yugos lavacon-
helicopter. landings of food and medical
the painful vision of -slaughter gomg
sider sending -more heavily armed
relief like committing troops for
sulate in the United States, in Chicago,
supplies supported by fighters
on while we
force to try peace
Washington Post
Billionaire's Foreign Aid
White House Arranged Panama Loan
Perot offered the money without
By Ann Devroy and John Mintz
Washington Post Staff Writers
being asked.
Perot, the undeclared inde-
The White House confirmed
pendent presidential candidate,
yesterday that national security
said during a CNN interview
adviser Brent Scowcroft ar-
Wednesday night that the White
ranged in 1990 for Texas billion-
House asked him for funds to
aire Ross Perot to pay $5 million
help rebuild Panama. Perot was
to help rebuild Panama after the
attempting to make the point
U.S. military action there, an
that the president and his aides,
offer the president later lavishly
who now portray him as bizarre
praised in a personal letter.
and scary, once lavishly praised
Ultimately, when Congress
him and sought his help.
provided funds for Panama,
First Lady Barbara Bush
Perot's contribution was deemed
added to that portrayal in an in-
unnecessary and the money was
terview to be televised this eve-
never paid. Last night, the White
ning in which she suggests that
House confirmed that Scowcroft
Perot may have turned on her
and Perot discussed the $5 mil-
husband because he once re-
lion for Panama but Deputy
fused a Perot job offer. "Maybe
Press Secretary Judy Smith said
See BUSH, A19, Col. 1
26 50ru92
THE WASHINGTON POST
White House Arranged for Perot's Aid to Pan
BUSH, From A1
In 1986, Bush called Perot and
And for someone who at one time,
Perot passed it (
asked him to put up $4.2 million to
not too long ago, offered George a
thanked him for it
people don't say no to Ross Perot
purchase an alleged videotape show-
big job. Seems a little strange."
One administra
and maybe that's why he feels this
ing U.S. servicemen still held by
Asked what the job was, Barbara
he believes the j
way," Barbara Bush said in the in-
communists in Laos, working as
Bush said her husband had not con-
"about 1972 or
terview to be broadcast on the pro-
slaves in a timber and mining camp,
sidered accepting it. "I think [it
when Bush was e
gram "20/20." ABC released the
former administration officials said.
was] to head his oil company or
to the United Nat
transcript of the Monday interview
Perot did put up the money, but the
something," she said. Perot has
of the Republican
at the White House.
tape was never purchased, and gov-
owned oil companies in the past-
tee. After the W
A Perot attempt to hire Bush be-
ernment officials later concluded it
among them Petrus Oil Co.-but
resulted in the r
fore he was president had not previ-
was a hoax.
spokesmen for Bush and the First
mer president Ri
ously been revealed and the White
In the interview with Barbara
Lady declined to explain what she
then-President (
House refused to provide any further
Walters, Barbara Bush said she felt
was talking about. Perot aides de-
asked Bush in 1
information. The suggestion from
"slightly stronger" than her husband
clined to return phone calls.
RNC. Bush's m
Barbara Bush came in a segment on
about inquiries into Bush's business
No evidence has been reported
mention of him CO
Perot in which she expresses the
dealings and her children. "I am not
that Perot investigated the Bush
vate job offer in
view that that Perot was acting "a
sure if I feel outraged, or violated,"
children. In 1986, The Post re-
Perot, in intervie
little strange" and "bizarre."
she said, "I feel slightly violated.
ported Sunday, an individual gave
yesterday about
The personal relationship be-
But in any case, I think it's bizarre
Perot unsolicited information sug-
Bush, said he had
tween Bush and Perot over the
particularly for someone who
gesting that two Bush sons were
the late 1960s, b
years has become an object of con-
did come and spend a day with us.
engaged in questionable activities.
tion trying to hire
siderable contention in the past
week, following reports in The
Washington Post recounting
Perot's long-standing interest in
events that might reflect badly on
Bush or on his family and associates
and Bush's angry reaction to those
reports. In a Wednesday news con-
ference, Perot charged that the sto-
ries were part of a Republican con-
spiracy to discredit him.
On the Panama solicitation issue,
Perot said Scowcroft had called him
in December 1989 after the inva-
sion to oust Manuel Antonio No-
riega and asked if he would contrib-
ute the $5 million because an aid
request before Congress was not
moving fast enough. The funds
were to be used for immediate re-
lief of Panamanians who lost homes
and other possessions in the mili-
tary action, but Congress then
moved on the funding and the Perot
aid was unneeded.
Smith defended the practice of the
government accepting private funds
for some of its projects. She said this
had been a "long-standing govern-
ment practice," and cited efforts now
by the Bush administration to get
private individuals and firms to fi-
nance antidrug and school reform
programs. Both of those projects,
however, were publicly announced.
The Panama effort was not.
Perot produced a handwritten
letter from Bush dated Jan. 4, 1990,
thanking him for the offer of money
and "for caring so much." Acknowl-
edging Perot's agreement to fund
an effort to rebuild housing in Pan-
ama, Bush notes in the letter, "Once
again, you have shown the Perot
spirit of unselfishness when there is
trouble or when Americans' lives
are at stake. Most sincerely and
gratefully, George."
"You don't want to know how
many stories like that there are
over the years," Perot said in a re-
cent interview with The Post. "It's
always the same pattern: someone
[from government] comes, I say,
Make sure this is approved at the
highest levels.' Is there a pattern of
that in my life? Yes. That's the gov-
ernment calling me. That's been
going on since 1969."
That was when officials of the
Nixon White House asked Perot to
create some publicity to draw at-
tention to the plight of U.S. service-
men held as prisoners by the North
Vietnamese. Perot loaded two
planes with food, medicine and re-
porters and flew all over Southeast
Asia trying to confront North Viet-
namese officials to demand a visit
with the POWs. He did not get to
visit them, but the publicity
prompted the communists to im-
prove the POWs' living conditions.
During the Reagan administra-
tion in the mid-1980s, in response
to requests from Marine Lt. Col.
Oliver L. North, Perot made avail-
able about $2 million in separate
efforts to win freedom for American
hostages-one was Brig. Gen.
James Dozier, kidnapped by Red
Brigades terrorists in Italy; others
were Americans kidnapped by ter-
rorists in Lebanon.
CNN
CNN AMERICA, INC.
The CNN Building
820 First Street. N.E.
Washington, DC 20002
(202) 898-7900
EVANS & NOVAK
AIR TIMES:
Saturday, June 27, 1992; 12:30 p.m. ET
Sunday, June 28, 1992; 12:30 a.m. & 7:30 a.m. ET
ORIGINATION:
Washington, D.C.
GUEST:
BRENT SCOWCROFT
National security adviser
INTERVIEWED BY:
Rowland Evans and Robert Novak
EXECUTIVE PRODUCER:
Elissa Free
SEGMENT PRODUCERS:
Kelly Wallace
Susan Reichley
V.P./EXEC. PRODUCER
WEEKEND INTERVIEW
PROGRAMS/"CROSSFIRE':
Richard Davis
CONDITION OF USE:
Credit "Evans & Novak" (CNN)
EDITOR: This is a rush transcript provided for the information and convenience of the press. Print and broadcast
media are permitted to quote this transcript provided credit is given to "Evans & Novak" (CNN). Video and audio
cassettes are available upon request to the media. For further information, please CNN Press Relations at (202)
515-2924.
(c) Copyright 1992, Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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ROBERT NOVAK: I'm Robert Novak. Rowland Evans and I will question President Bush's
national security advisor.
ROWLAND EVANS: He is General Brent Scowcroft.
President Bush, falling in the polls, swung his party's biggest gun into position and fired a salvo
last weekend.
PRESIDENT BUSH (on tape): History will record this. American leadership changed the
world. Eastern Europe is free. Germany is united. Imperial communism is dead and buried.
MR. EVANS: The president also strengthened his foreign policy clout when this week's Israeli
election threw out the hard-line party that had been blocking his Middle East peace plan.
General, with General Rabin about to become prime minister, with his calendar of nine months
for autonomy, is it probable that Israel, that the Palestinians will have autonomy within nine months?
BRENT SCOWCROFT (national security advisor): Well, I wouldn't want to say that, Rowley.
We have a long way to go there. But I think if you look at Rabin's platform versus that of Shamir and
the Likud, there is every reason to expect that progress will be easier than it has been over the past.
MR. EVANS: Do we support General Rabin's policy that he wants nonstop talks with the
Palestinians, to get that thing moving?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well, I think that would be useful. We are certainly interested in pushing
forward on the peace process to the extent that the parties can sustain useful dialogue.
MR. EVANS: Now General, do you worry in the White House about reaction against Rabin's
plans for autonomy and for peace in the area by militant settlers? And I quote Professor Sprinzak
(phonetic) of Hebrew University: "This are going to organize and prepare for extraparliamentary
activities, civil disobedience, and they're going to do it led by General Sharon." What do you say to
that, sir?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well, the problems still exist. I mean, there haven't been any problems
solved just because there's a difference in approach between Labor and Likud. And the same forces
are still there. It seems to me the election shows that those forces are somewhat different than Likud
had anticipated, and that may give us some cause for optimism, but there are still very, very hard
problems there.
MR. EVANS: But does that possibility disturb President Bush, that there might be inter-Jewish
fighting, inter-Israeli fighting between the settlers and in effect, the government?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Of course he's prefer not to have anything like that but I think it's
apparent that the settlers and have for some time have felt very strongly on this issue.
MR. NOVAK: Do you think this election has ended the crisis in U.S.-Israeli relations?
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MR. SCOWCROFT: I think it's premature to talk about that. Mr. Rabin has not even been
asked to form a government, hasn't formed one. He does not have the party strength to form a
government on his own so it will have to be a coalition and I think we have to wait and see.
MR. NOVAK: Sounds like you're not all that happy about the results of the election.
MR. SCOWCROFT: No, no.
MR. NOVAK: I thought you were popping champagne corks at the White House.
MR. SCOWCROFT: No, I don't mean that at all, Bob, but what I'm saying is there's a very
ticklish, sensitive period ahead when the prime minister has to put together a government, and I think
the best, the prudent thing to do is for us to wait a see.
MR. NOVAK: General Scowcroft, now on Friday at the White House you and the other
principal advisors to the president met on the subject of Yugoslavia and the fraternal fighting going
on there. Was there discussed the possibility of U.S. military forces helping out in a multilateral
effort?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well first of all, Yugoslavia wasn't the only subject for discussion. But the
problem of Yugoslavia of course was discussed and the agony of what's going on there, the attempt to
provide some humanitarian assistance to the besieged citizens of Sarajevo.
MR. NOVAK: What are you going to do?
MR. SCOWCROFT: And 80 far the absence of the ability to do SO.
MR. NOVAK: What are you going to do?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well, we discussed a number of things we might be able to do to help the
situation.
MR. NOVAK: You're not ready to say what they are?
MR. SCOWCROFT: No, we are not ready to say.
MR. NOVAK: I think the American people, though, General, would really like to know are we
going to get into a position where there's a possibility of American combat forces being deployed in
Yugoslavia?
MR. SCOWCROFT: I think the look at the overall political situation there, it is a very, very
difficult situation. And that's been recognized not only by the United States, by the EC, by the U.N.,
and I think to talk about walking in there and dealing with a problem that is as intractable probably
as that which has been going on in Northern Ireland and Beirut, is a dangerous thing.
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MR. NOVAK: Is that a no, then, that we're not going to have--are you saying no, that there's
no chance of American military--
MR. SCOWCROFT: I told you I didn't want to answer that question. We reviewed a number
of options.
MR. EVANS: On combat forces, that sounds as though my partner was referring to ground
forces. I want to refine that a little bit. Would you also rule out air attacks on the mortars and
artillery guns that are firing into populated civilian squares. That's a little bit different from what
the public would generally understand as massed armed forces?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well, I'm not going to rule things in or out at this point.
MR. EVANS: General, the American people are also extremely concerned and I think a little
provoked about disclosures in the issue of missing in action and prisoners of war, possibly and probably
apparently left in Vietnam after we pulled out in '73. And while I believe, sir, you were in the White
House under President Nixon, a statement was made by the Pentagon, certainly not by you, to the
effect that there were no--there are no live Americans left in Vietnam. Senator John Kerry of
Massachusetts--his subcommittee is now investigating this--said the other day that that statement--I
quote him--was "false." Is that correct, sir?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well, you know, I don't remember whether anybody in fact made that
statement. There are a lot of people in the government and a lot of statements were made. But at the
time the POW's were released from Vietnam, there were a number of cases that I believe were called
discrepancy cases, where there was indication that people or troops had been seen after, for example,
an aircraft crash or something that indicated that they were on the ground alive and that there was
no follow-up.
Some of those discrepancy cases are still open and still being discussed with the Vietnamese and
that is all I know about the possibility that anyone was remaining. There are a lot of question marks.
MR. EVANS: Let me try to pin you down, sir. Do you think Senator Kerry made an accurate
statement when he said that Pentagon statement, and he had the statement, was false?
MR. SCOWCROFT: I don't know.
MR. EVANS: You don't?
MR. SCOWCROFT: I don't know.
MR. EVANS: Let me ask you this. He said that 244 listed prisoners of war were on the list
in 1973 when we pulled out and that the Pentagon said 127 only of those had died as of now, leaving
the balance unaccounted for. Would you take issue with that suggestion by Kerry as to why he thinks
there are Americans in Vietnam or Russia?
MR. SCOWCROFT: No, I have to be frank with you, Rowley. I don't remember the list of
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POW's and how many of those did not come back and were not confirmed dead. So I can't really
answer the question. That's a detail I just don't remember right now.
MR. NOVAK: Do you think there was an effort by the Nixon administration, by past
administrations not to cover it up but kind of to forget about it and to move on to other business-they
didn't want to go too deep into this area?
MR. SCOWCROFT: No.
MR. NOVAK: You don't believe that?
MR. SCOWCROFT: No, I don't believe that. I don't believe that. I believe there was in the
Pentagon the natural pre-disposition to resolve the issue and after a certain period of time when efforts
had been exhausted to determine the status of missing in action--as I recall there were proposals to
declare all those who hadn't been found as being killed in action. But I think you know, that's a
bureaucratic bent towards tidiness and I think there was no attempt. No. I don't--I can't think of an
issue on which this government, whether beginning with the Nixon administration through Ford and
Carter and Reagan that had been more dedicated to finding out what has happened.
MR. NOVAK: Just one more follow-up on that subject, general. When President Yeltsin of
Russia was here recently, he shocked a lot of people by suggesting that there might still be missing
in action in Russia. We have sent people over there. They have found nothing. Do you think he was
talking through his hat?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well, I don't know. I don't know. He made that statement. He repeated
it several times. And so far nothing has turned up. There were indications at the one camp that
Ambassador Toon took his people to and they found no indication of Americans either there or having
been there, but I wouldn't rule anything out. There are a lot of archives over there that have not been
opened up.
MR. NOVAK: General Scowcroft, Ross Perot has shown a letter that was given to him by
President Bush in which he commended Perot for what he called-said, you've shown the Perot spirit
of unselfishness in offering to help on giving aid to Panama after the military intervention there.
You were the intermediate on that 80 you ought to know exactly what was going on. There is
a real dispute going on. Did Ross Perot make that offer or was he asked to help by your government?
MR. SCOWCROFT: He made the offer.
MR. NOVAK: There was no--he says that you people solicited the offer.
MR. SCOWCROFT: No. Just to reinforce my memory, I went back and checked the phone logs
and--
MR. NOVAK: And he made the--
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MR. SCOWCROFT: He made the phone call.
MR. NOVAK: He definitely made the--
MR. SCOWCROFT: Yes.
MR. NOVAK: One other thing. As you know, the president has been very unhappy with Ross
Perot. Isn't that kind of an odd thing to say about somebody that he has a low opinion of-you've
shown the Perot spirit of unselfishness. That seems rather a lavish praise.
MR. SCOWCROFT: I think Mr. Perot on this occasion and several others has shown his
patriotism and unselfishness in wanting, for example, to do something about POW's, about hostages
and in this case, to help on defraying expenses--
MR. NOVAK: So you would say he did it out of a patriotic spirit?
MR. SCOWCROFT: I have no reason not to think SO.
MR. EVANS: Would you say on balance, General Scowcroft, that all these interventions by
Ross Perot and I'm not trying to get you into a political fight here with Mr. Perot-on POW's in
Vietnam, on releasing his own people or trying to help release his own people in Tehran-are indicative
of a worthy spirit of a person who is seriously interested in helping his country or do you think it was
basically in his own self-interest?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well, you know, I don't know if I'm in a position to make a judgment like
that. You know, Ross Perot is a graduate of the Naval Academy and I have no reason to think that
he's not imbued with the true spirit of patriotism.
MR. EVANS: Let me just ask you this, sir. Do you think from what you know about Mr. Perot
and that he is an academy graduate in four years in the Navy, that he could handle the foreign policy
agenda that this country faces?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Oh, I don't think I want to comment on that.
MR. EVANS: Let me go to South Africa. I was hoping you would comment on it, General, but
we'll go to--
MR. SCOWCROFT: I'll bet.
MR. EVANS: -South Africa, as far away as we can get.
Do we have evidence through out intelligence, CIA, NSA, et cetera, that the white government
police force and security apparatus has or have not been part of the attacks on ANC people, blacks, in
the townships?
MR. SCOWCROFT: You mean this recent--
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MR. EVANS: This, and that charge has been made right along for the last few years.
MR. SCOWCROFT: As far as I know we don't have any confirmed. We have reports. But
nothing confirmed, no.
MR. EVANS: Do you--are you concerned that the White House today in the way South Africa
is gong, and that President de Klerk's great aspirations maybe dashed?
MR. SCOWCROFT: I think that's too pessimistic. This is a set back. But I believe that de
Klerk's attitude, and also the ANC's demands on the government are not such as to preclude a return
to the negotiating process.
So it's serious, but I'm not all that--
MR. EVANS: Is it serious enough sir that if it continued we might think about reimposing
sanctions?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Oh, I don't think we're at anything like that kind of a situation.
MR. NOVAK: General Scowcroft, during the Reagan administration and a lot of stages, you
were a member of what was called the Tower board to investigate the Iran-contra affair. Did you
interview the secretary of defense, Caspar Weinberger as part of those duties?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Yes.
MR. NOVAK: He has now been indicted by the independent counsel, Judge Walsh, and on the
basis of notes that he made being not in accordance with what he testified to, did you ever, did you
know about those notes? Did he tell you about those notes?
MR. SCOWCROFT: I don't remember whether he told about the notes or not.
MR. NOVAK: Do you have any feeling as to whether this is a justifiable indictment from what
you know? I don't know anybody that knows more about Iran-contra than you do outside of the lawyers
dealing with it.
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well, we found nothing to indicate that Secretary Weinberger was not
truthful and honest in everything he told us about his involvement in his description of what he knew
about the affair.
MR. NOVAK: Do you have any emotional reaction to his indictment?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Yes, I do. He is a-one of the most upstanding Americans that I've ever
met. And so of course I have an emotional reaction.
MR. EVANS: Would you have an opinion on setting up a new independent council to
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investigate the so-called Iraq-gate charge that the administration sent money to Iraq which Saddam
Hussein used for the purchase of nuclear equipment?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well, I think it's a waste of money.
MR. EVANS: You think it's a waste of money. So you'd be doubly opposed to setting up a--
MR. SCOWCROFT: As I say, I think it's a waste of money. There is absolutely nothing in the
Iraqi situation which would warrant the appointment of an independent council.
MR. NOVAK: Do you have regrets about the policy of aid to Saddam Hussein?
MR. SCOWCROFT: No, no I don't.
MR. NOVAK: No regrets at all?
MR. SCOWCROFT: No, I don't, and for this reason. You know, during the long Iran-Iraq war
there is established a very modest pattern of dealing with the Iraqi government. And it was an eyes
open kind of an arrangement. Everybody knew what kind of a person this was. But if it was possible
to make this man a reasonably responsible member of the international community, then it was worth
trying.
It didn't work. But if we had started right out driving him into the corner, the same people that
are screaming Iraq-gate would have said, you forced him to go to war, you didn't give him an out. So
no, I think it was definitely worth trying, and we found out sincerely what you could and could not do
with this man.
MR. NOVAK: We're going to have to take a break, and when we're back, we'll have the big
question for General Brent Scowcroft.
(Announcements.)
MR. NOVAK: The Big Question for National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft. Congressman
Lantos of California said it's a good bet now that George Bush will be out of office before Saddam
Hussein. Do you agree?
MR. SCOWCROFT: No.
MR. NOVAK: Why? Because, you think--
MR. SCOWCROFT: Because I think President Bush will be re-elected, and I think Saddam
Hussein--I can't put a finger on it. I think he will be gone before President Bush is.
MR. NOVAK: How long?
MR. SCOWCROFT: I can't say that.
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MR. NOVAK: What about the people who believe that he is stronger today than he was when
his troops surrendered to the coalition in 1991?
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well, you know, those kinds of predictions--I can't say they're not right,
but those kinds of predictions remind me about why happened to Ceaucescu as the rest of Eastern
Europe, the dictators were falling, and the reports were the only one who's really stronger than ever
before is Ceaucescu. And this is about a week before he collapsed. These things are inherently hard
to predict. But I think there are elements in his situation that indicate seriously weakness.
MR. EVANS: General, we only have fifteen seconds. The Kuwaiti government has attacked
the U.S. ambassador in Kuwait in such a way that Assistant Secretary of State Djerejian called that
attack intolerable and outrageous, unquote. We spent our treasure rescuing Kuwait. How does it
make you guys feel in the White House to have this happen to our ambassador.
MR. SCOWCROFT: Well, that wasn't the Kuwaiti government. That was one individual who
was subsequently repudiated.
MR. EVANS: And you don't agree?
MR. SCOWCROFT: No. It doesn't represent the Kuwaiti government.
MR. EVANS: General Brent Scowcroft, thanks for being with us. We must take a break now,
but when we come back after these messages my partner and I will have a comment.
(Announcements.)
MR. EVANS: Bob, the general put his finger on a very serious problem looming in Israel, and
that is a possible--not an uprising, but a possible reaction by militant settlers who don't like what
Rabin's policy-the new prime minister Rabin-is going to be. But I thought he low-balled the real
reaction of the administration on that election: they loved it, because they love General Rabin.
MR. NOVAK: General Scowcroft said he consulted his notes, and indeed Ross Perot volunteered
to help in Panama. He was not asked to help. But on the other hand, Scowcroft, I felt, was very
friendly to Perot. He thought he was a patriot. He didn't joint the mudslinging brigade against him.
MR. EVANS: You got the general's reaction to my question about a possible Iraq-gate special
prosecutor-a waste of money, the general said. Lot of people in this town would agree with him.
MR. NOVAK: You know, General Scowcroft didn't even remember the Nixon administration--
he was a high official-about no Americans alive in Vietnam. I'm afraid that's the kind of information
Americans have been getting on the MIA issue for about 20 years. I'm Robert Novak.
MR. EVANS: I'm Rowland Evans.
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