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Assorted As-Delivered Press Texts of [Presidential] Speeches [OA 6901] [4]
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323154424
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Assorted As-Delivered Press Texts of [Presidential] Speeches [OA 6901] [4]
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Records of the White House Office of Speechwriting (George H. W. Bush Administration)
Carol Aarhus Alpha Files
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This is not a textual record. This is used as an
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Record Group/Collection:
George H.W. Bush Presidential Records
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Speechwriting, White House Office of
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Aarhus, Carol, Files
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Alpha File, 1990-1992
OA/ID Number:
13860
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13860-004
Folder Title:
Assorted As-Delivered Press Texts of [Presidential] Speeches [4]
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19
2
5
1
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(Faith, North Carolina)
For Immediate Release
July 4, 1992
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT FOURTH OF JULY CELEBRATION
Legion Park
Faith, North Carolina
3:07 P.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all very much. Mayor,
thank you. Thank you very much, Mayor Hampton. And let me say
to all of you, please be seated. (Laughter.) Sorry about that.
What a great day in Faith, and what a wonderful way to get here
-- play a couple of innings of ball, eat a little barbecue, drink
a little of that wine or whatever they call it over there.
(Laughter.)
Really, we're thrilled to be here, and thank you for
that very, very warm welcome. And I say warm -- I use the term
advisedly. (Laughter.) I'll tell you a little Trivial Pursuit
-- 50 years ago almost to this day I was a naval aviation cadet
at Chapel Hill, North Carolina. (Applause.) And that was my
first taste of North Carolina hospitality, and this is my last
and my very best up till now. So thank you all very, very much.
(Applause.)
It's great to see our Governor here, doing a superb
job for this state. And you'll miss him in the governorship, but
we've got to keep him active. He's done a great job for the
state of North Carolina. May I pay my respects to another man
I've been with shoulder to shoulder -- Congressman Coble here;
and just say to all of you -- Daisy Bost and all that worked on
this program, what a magnificent show this is. And the Governor
is right; we are proud to be in Faith, North Carolina, and proud
to see this spirit alive and well. (Applause.)
I didn't hear the East Rowan High School Marching
Band, but somebody -- here they are right here. Fantastic.
(Applause.)
But this is a very special American day. I just
came from the races down there in Daytona, and we saluted the
King, a son of North Carolina, Richard Petty. (Applause.) Dale
Earnhart -- Dale showed us around and explained it, so it's been
a great big high of a day for me here. And this one is a picture
postcard holiday setting. You've got it all with the Little
League and the softball games and the wheel barrel races and the
parade down Main Street. And now I'll be very short because I
want to go over and try the bungee jumping -- (laughter.) No,
Barbara said it's okay to throw your hat in the ring, but not the
whole body. (Laughter.)
But we meet today in the state that gave birth to
flight way back a thousand years ago -- and on the day when the
eagle soars proudest of all. We meet in small-town America -- in
many ways, as I survey our great country, in many ways the
spiritual heart of all America.
Several miles up the road is Salisbury, home to our
friend Liddy Dole -- (applause) -- and home to Cheerwine.
(Laughter.) And a little east, Siler City, where television's
Aunt Bea is buried. I've always wondered if Aunt Bea were with
us today if she d be serving broccoli. I hope not. (Laughter.)
MORE
- 2 -
Not every place in America is like these wonderful
towns, but its values can and should be -- because the values
that the Mayor mentioned, the values the Governor talked about,
the values that you hold dear are the values that hold our entire
country together. And we never should forget that. (Applause.)
When I go back to Washington, Barbara and I -- we
have about an hour and a half, I believe it is, maybe a couple of
hours at the airport. Then we fly to Poland, where I'll stand
shoulder to shoulder Sunday morning with Lech Walesa, the
President. Remember him? The guy that stood up for freedom when
nobody else could do it in Poland? Stood up and took the heat.
And now Poland is free. And he looks to the United states and he
says, above all the countries, it was the United States of
America that stood with me and offered me the hope for freedom.
(Applause.)
You know what it means to be good neighbors. You
know what it is to have families, strong and united; good
schools; safe neighborhoods; job-creating economy and a world at
peace. Now, you go over to the Faith Soda shop, or the Hairport,
or R&I Variety, and you'll see the values that can achieve these
goals. One is faith in self-reliance. You believe in equal
rights for all Americans. And don't let anybody knock your town;
you stand with me against bigotry and against racism.
(Applause.)
And you believe in what is good and what is right.
Some regard principles as disposable, like TV dinners, but they
couldn't be more wrong. Let others support some of this -- films
and the programs which mock small-town America. But I stand with
the millions who support your America. And there's nothing wrong
with a nation more like salisbury or Faith, North Carolina. And
believe me, carry those principles with you. (Applause.)
And I've had -- it's not just the name of the town.
But from this springs another small-town virtue: We believe
America is special because of fidelity to God. And we have not
forgotten that we are one nation under God. Ard that's an
important thing to point out on July 4th. (Applause.)
I heard from the Mayor that there are 553 --
technically, 553 residents. But she tells me that on Sunday more
than 800 attend church services. And that's pretty good out of a
town of 553. Think of that. You show why, according to a Gallup
Poll, America is the most religious nation on Earth.
Remember the small boy expressing that conviction:
"God bless mother and daddy, my brother and sister." And he
says, "Oh, and God take care of yourself because if anything
happens to you, we're all sunk." (Laughter.) And that kid is
right -- just as right as he can be.
So the American people really have mountains of
faith. And I believe the God who gave us life also gave us
liberty. And so again I'd like to use this wonderful occasion,
this national holiday - perhaps our greatest -- to call on the
Congress to pass a constitutional amendment permitting voluntary
prayer in the public schools. (Applause.)
Barbara and I were talking earlier to people for
whom every day is the 4th of July. And they don't apologize for
the choking up when you hear the Star-Spangled Banner or standing
at attention when you say the Pledge of Allegiance. And they
don't apologize for the lump in the throat when a few blocks away
over her on Gantt Street in the American Legion Building they
visit a monument dedicated to the veterans -- the living and the
dead -- of every American war.
And here in Faith, memories run long, just as
principles run deep. And you know -- Jim touched on it -- but
you know how to answer those who say that the success of Desert
MORE
- 3 -
storm should be forgotten. But, look, you had 76,000, as he
said, troops in this one state deployed from North Carolina.
And I don't think Saddam Hussein -- who might by now
have nuclear weapons, or if we hadn't challenged him we'd all be
paying $10 for gas as he moved into Saudi Arabia -- I don't think
he doubts for a minute the will and the strength and the
patriotism of the American people. (Applause.)
And I know very well our veterans haven't
forgotten, as those courageous, the best fighting forces we've
ever put together. We stay together. I told Howard Coble -- I
sometimes risk being a little personal. But I was shot down in
World War II. And I learned something. I learned something in
combat: The wingman doesn't pull away from the flight leader.
And when I was shot down into the Pacific it was my teammates.
One located my raft. Another shot down a boat that was put out
from a Japanese island. And I learned this: We are a team.
We're a united country. And when the going gets tough, we get
moving. And we don't apologize, and we don't quit. (Applause.)
We never quit. And we don't forget the POWS and the MIAS, I
might add, either. (Applause.) We're with them.
Eisenhower spoke of "the great and priceless
privilege of growing up in a small town." Well, Barbara and I
are privileged to be in a small town that proves how right Ike
was.
And ours is a nation -- believe me -- ours is a
nation whose best days lie ahead. And these kids here can go to
bed at night with less fear of nuclear war because we've been
here.
And now we've got to keep moving and bring that
change to everybody in America that wants opportunity. And we
can do it. Why? Because on this special day of freedom we are
still the United States of America. Nothing to apologize for,
everything to be proud of.
Thank you, and God bless each and every one of you.
(Applause.)
END
3:16 P.M. EDT
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
November 21, 1991
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT CIVIL RIGHTS BILL SIGNING CEREMONY
The Rose Garden
1:18 P.M. EST
Welcome to the White House. And may I salute the
members of the Cabinet who are here today, members of the Congress
-- many members of Congress, distinguished guests.
Today, we celebrate a law that will fight the evil of
discrimination while also building bridges of harmony between
Americans of all races, sexes, creeds and backgrounds.
For the past few years, the issue of civil rights
legislation has divided Americans. No more. From day one, I told
the American people that I wanted a civil rights bill that advances
the cause of equal opportunity. And I wanted a bill that advances
the cause of racial harmony. And I wanted a bill that encourages
people to work together. And today I am signing that bill, the Civil
Rights Act of 1991.
Discrimination, whether on the basis of race, national
origin, sex, religion or disability, is worse than wrong. It's an
evil that strikes at the very heart of the American ideal. This
bill, building on current law, will help ensure that no American will
discriminate against another.
For these reasons, this is a very good bill. Let me
repeat: this is a very good bill. Last year -- back in May of 1990
in the Rose Garden, right here, with some of you present, I appealed
for a bill I could sign. And I said that day that I cannot and will
not sign a quota bill. Instead, I said that the American people
deserved a civil rights bill that -- number one, insisted that
employers focus on equal opportunity -- not on developing strategies
to avoid litigation. Number two, they deserved a bill that was
based upon fundamental principles of fairness -- that anyone who
believes their rights have been violated is entitled to their day in
court -- and that the accused are innocent until proved guilty. And
number three, they deserved a bill that provided adequate deterrent
against harassment based upon race, sex, religion, or disability.
I also said that day back in 1990 that "this
administration is committed to action that is truly affirmative,
positive action in every sense, to strike down all barriers to
advancement of every kind for all people." And in that same spirit,
I say again today: I support affirmative action. Nothing in this
bill overturns the government's affirmative action programs.
And unlike last year's bill -- a bill I was forced to
veto -- this bill will not encourage quotas or racial preferences
because this bill will not create lawsuits on the basis of numbers
alone. I oppose quotas because they incite tensions between the
races, between the sexes, between people who get trapped in a numbers
game.
This bill contains several important innovations. For
example, it contains strong new remedies for the victims of
MORE
- 2 -
discrimination and harassment, along with provisions capping damages
that are an important model to be followed in tort reform. And it
encourages mediation and arbitration between parties before the last
resort of litigation. Our goal and our promise is harmony -- a
return to civility and brotherhood -- as we build a better America
for ourselves and our children.
We had to work hard for this agreement. This bill
passed both Houses of Congress overwhelmingly with broad support on
both sides of the aisle. A tip of the hat goes to Senator Kennedy
and former Congressman Hawkins, who, way back in February of 1990,
got the ball rolling -- and I congratulate and thank particularly
Senators Dole, Danforth and Hatch, Congressmen Michel, Goodling and
Hyde for ensuring that today's legislation fulfills the principles
that I outlined in the Rose Garden last year.
No one likes to oppose a bill containing the words
"civil rights" -- especially me -- and no one in Congress likes to
vote against one, either. I owe a debt of gratitude to those who
stood with us against counterproductive legislation last year -- and
again earlier this year -- as well as to those who led the way toward
the important agreement we've reached today. I'm talking about
Democrats, I'm talking about Republicans and those outside the
Congress who played a constructive role. And to all of you, I am
very, very grateful, because I believe this is in the best interest
of the United States.
But to the Congress I also say this: The 1991 Civil
Rights bill is only the first step. If we seek -- and I believe that
every one of us does -- to build a new era of harmony and shared
purpose, we must make it possible for all Americans to scale the
ladder of opportunity. If we seek to ease racial tensions in
America, civil rights legislation is, by itself, not enough. The
elimination of discrimination in the workplace is a vital element of
the American Dream, but it is simply not enough.
I believe in an America free from racism, free from
bigotry.
I believe in an America where anyone who wants to work
has a job.
I believe in an America where every child receives a
first-rate education a place where our children have the same
chance to achieve their goals as everyone else's kids do.
I believe in an America where all people enjoy equal
protection under the law where everyone can live and work in a
climate free from fear and despair
where drugs and crime have
been banished from our neighborhoods and schools.
And I believe in an America where everyone has a place
to call his own -- a stake in the community, the comfort of a home.
I believe in an America where we measure success not in
dollars and lawsuits -- but in opportunity, prosperity and harmony.
I believe in the ideals we all share -- ideals that made America
great: decency, fairness, faith, hard work, generosity, vigor, and
vision.
The American Dream rests on the vision of life, liberty
and the pursuit of happiness. In our workplaces, in our schools, or
on our streets, this dream begins with equality and opportunity. Our
agenda for the next American Century -- whether it be guaranteeing
equal protection under the law, promoting excellence in education, or
creating jobs -- will ensure for generations to come that America
remains the beacon of opportunity in the world. Now, with great
MORE
- 3 -
pride, I will sign this good, sound legislation into law. Thank you
very much.
(The bill is signed.) (Applause.)
Q
Sir, are you concerned about the feeling of a sense
of disarray because of the Counsel's memo?
THE PRESIDENT: The which?
Q
Boyden Gray's idea on affirmative action.
THE PRESIDENT: Listen to what I say, and don't get off
-- too caught up. It's all worked out and feels good. I think it's
very sound legislation.
END
1:26 P.M. EST
Mar. 13 / Administration of George Bush, 1991
has three children, and resides in Washing-
chose to work within the United Nations.
three United S
He painstakingly constructed and nurtured
successive Car
ton, DC.
a great and disparate coalition of sovereign
I, Mr. Presider
nations. He provided the perspective and
since the day
the patience required for successful state-
President. Anc
craft. And when, at the 11th hour, a diplo-
today-when
Nomination of Raoul L. Carroll To Be
matic solution was again rejected, President
the United Sta
President of the Government National
Bush provided the strength and the deci-
have played at
Mortgage Association
siveness required for the successful prosecu-
one has playe
March 13, 1991
tion of war.
you.
I'm not entirely certain how history will
You have dei
The President today announced his inten-
tion to nominate Raoul Lord Carroll, of the
interpret the expression "defining
nadian interest
District of Columbia, to be President of the
moment," which appears to be pretty much
domestic clean
Government National Mortgage Association
en vogue in certain quarters these days. But
this agreement
at the Department of Housing and Urban
I assume it means the crystallization of
ernments of b
great need and wise, confident leadership
ment today, to
Development in Washington, DC. He
would succeed Arthur J. Hill.
in a manner that indelibly affects succeed-
ules, and requir
ing generations. In that regard, the conduct
progress that i:
Since 1989, Mr. Carroll has served as
of the Gulf crisis and the war, from its un-
also provides a
General Counsel for the Department of
to solve other
Veterans Affairs in Washington, DC. Prior
certain beginnings to its triumphant end,
to this Mr. Carroll served as a partner with
was in fact, a defining moment for the
problems.
Bishop, Cook, Purcell & Reynolds in Wash-
United Nations, the United States, and the
[At this point, a
ington, DC, 1986-1989.
world. And for this extraordinary achieve-
That's Gallu
Mr. Carroll graduated from Morgan State
ment the name George Bush will live
[Laughter] I ex
College (B.S., 1972) and St. John's Universi-
proudly in the history of free men and
fast. [Laughter]
ty School of Law (J.D., 1975). He was born
women.
With this agre
March 16, 1950, in Washington, DC. Mr.
In fact, this Presidency, in my judgment,
programs now
Carroll served in the U.S. Army, 1975-1979.
will always be remembered for the uncom-
we are confider
He is married, has two children, and resides
mon courage and the strong leadership that
will be eliminate
in Washington, DC.
President George Bush of the United States
I would like
of America demonstrated throughout an ex-
there are many
ceptionally challenging and potentially ex-
thanked today-
plosive period in world history.
And I mentio
Canada and the United States are close
others-John Fr
Remarks by the President and Prime
Minister Brian Mulroney of Canada at
friends and trusted allies. And the President
the House of C
the Air Quality Agreement Signing
of the United States is always most welcome
in his previous
in our country. And, Mr. President, I bid
the Environme
Ceremony in Ottawa
you on behalf of everyone a most warm
one. And I see ]
March 13, 1991
welcome here today.
the United Stat
The Prime Minister. Mr. President, dis-
I have noticed that President Bush has
and David Macl
tinguished guests: I'm very pleased to wel-
acquired along the way a 91-percent ap-
the Environmer
come President Bush to Canada on his first
proval rating. [Laughter] Because of our
of Commons; an
foreign trip since the end of the Gulf war.
close relationship and because this is a spe-
who are with 1
He comes to Canada today as a President
cial day-George Bush and I have been
role.
who is greatly admired at home and widely
friends for many years-I know that the
But I would
respected abroad, and one whose skill and
President will want to pool his ratings with
lips, of External
resolve provided the international commu-
mine. [Laughter] We can then, George,
Environment Ca
nity with a stunning success in a war over
divide by two, and we both come out
job well-done. &
Iraq.
ahead. [Laughter]
their American
In my many meetings and conversations
But it's a particular pleasure for us to wel-
of people on bot
with President Bush since August 2d I have
come you, Mr. President, on this visit to
present this afte
been struck both by his grasp of the issues
sign the Canada-United States Air Quality
to make this hap
and by the breadth of his vision in regard to
Accord. This agreement has had a long and
Mr. President,
this remarkable problem. He instinctively
sometimes difficult history. It has involved
portant to Can:
298
Administration
borge
Bush,
1991
/
Mar.
13
nited Nations.
and nurtured
three United States administrations and five
takes its breath from the forests and lakes
successive Canadian governments. You and
and mountains and prairies that give life to
a of sovereign
rspective and
I, Mr. President, have worked on this issue
our country. The aboriginal peoples of
ccessful state-
since the days when you were still Vice
Canada have taught us that we hold this
hour, a diplo-
President. And I see Alan Gottlieb here
magnificent land, as you do yours, in trust
today-when Alan was our Ambassador in
for future generations. And so, today's
ted, President
and the deci-
the United States, and so many others who
agreement will help us correct many of the
essful prosecu-
have played an important role in it. But no
errors of the past.
one has played a more critical role than
With this agreement we are guaranteeing
W history will
you.
our children that air quality will never
You have demonstrated sensitivity to Ca-
1
"defining
again be taken for granted on this conti-
nadian interests in your proceeding with
nent. The sensitivity and idealism of chil-
e pretty much
hese days. But
domestic clean air legislation and in signing
dren on both sides of the border are our
stallization of
this agreement today. It commits the Gov-
environment's best hope.
ernments of both countries, this arrange-
ent leadership
Mr. President, your colleagues from the
fects succeed-
ment today, to a series of targets and sched-
administration, Governor Sununu and Gen-
d, the conduct
ules, and requires both to make public the
eral Scowcroft, and your colleagues, Ambas-
r, from its un-
progress that is achieved. The agreement
sador Ney: on behalf of Canadians young
umphant end,
also provides a framework for cooperation
and old, I would like to express our appre-
to solve other transboundary air pollution
ment for the
ciation for your cooperation.
States, and the
problems.
There is someone here, Stan Darling, Mr.
inary achieve-
[At this point, a telephone rang.]
President, who is right over there, who, as
Bush will live
That's Gallup calling, Mr. President.
he says, is a member of the Conservative
ree men and
[Laughter] I expected a push, but not this
Caucus, soon to be 80 years young, as he
fast. [Laughter]
says every Wednesday. He was one of the
my judgment,
With this agreement and with the control
often unmentioned guiding lights who
or the uncom-
programs now in effect in both countries,
fought the fight over many long and diffi-
leadership that
we are confident that the acid rain menace
cult years to make this possible. And while
United States
will be eliminated by the year 2000.
you and I get to sign it today, Mr. Presi-
bughout an ex-
I would like to take this opportunity-
dent, what we sign is a tribute to Stan Dar-
potentially ex-
there are many people who deserve to be
ling and so many Members of Parliament
thanked today-Davie Fulton from the IJC.
and Members of Congress and members of
tates are close
And I mentioned Alan-and so many
the administration on both sides who de-
I the President
others-John Fraser, who is the Speaker of
serve this tribute today.
most welcome
the House of Commons, Mr. President, but
So, I would like to express our apprecia-
resident, I bid
in his previous incarnation was Minister of
tion for your cooperation, and I want to
a most warm
the Environment, and a most successful
thank you for your vital contribution to pre-
one. And I see Bill Reilly, who is here from
serving the common environment we both
lent Bush has
the United States; and Robert De Cotret;
hold in trust for future generations. I'm
1-percent ap-
and David MacDonald, who is Chairman of
aware, Mr. President, of the pressures on
ecause of our
the Environment Committee of the House
you. There are actually some pressures on
this is a spe-
of Commons; and so many parliamentarians
us in the same ways up here in Canada.
I have been
who are with us today who played a key
And to have moved as you did the environ-
now that the
role.
mental question so quickly within your own
is ratings with
But I would like to thank Michael Phil-
borders so far and to such heights is a trib-
then, George,
lips, of External Affairs, and Bob Slater, of
ute to the commitment that you made to
th come out
Environment Canada, our negotiators, for a
the American people and to the Govern-
job well-done. And I would like to thank
ment of Canada-that if elected, you would
for us to wel-
their American counterparts and the scores
make this your highest priority and you
1 this visit to
of people on both sides, many of whom are
would try to bring about a day like today.
es Air Quality
present this afternoon, for working so hard
Well, we're here, Mr. President, and we're
ad a long and
to make this happy day possible.
here on a happy day in very large measure
has involved
Mr. President, this agreement is very im-
because you provided that principal leader-
portant to Canadians. Our national soul
ship, you followed through when you gave
299
Mar. 13 / Administration of George Bush, 1991
your commitment. And for that and many
ment for standing in partnership for the
this critic
other reasons I express our thanks. And I
principles that gave justice real meaning in
is one th:
give you the warmest of welcomes to
the world. I once again want to say that I
one when
Canada.
would talk-I'm sure it seemed to him end-
and take
Minister De Cotret. President Bush has
lessly-but to your Prime Minister, and the
I think V
certainly demonstrated an unprecedented
American people knew from day one exact-
sound and
interest in the bilateral environment affairs
ly where Canada stood. And we are very,
Thank
of Canada and the United States. Mr. Presi-
very grateful for that.
dent, Canadians look forward to making
This agreement that we're fixing to sign
Note: The
further improvements to our shared herit-
is added proof that the challenges we face
in the Rec
age. Allow me to add my appreciation to
require a new partnership among nations.
his remar
that of the Prime Minister. Ladies and gen-
Last year at the Houston economic summit,
E. Davie I
tlemen, the President of the United States.
we agreed to give this effort real priority.
Section of
The President. Thank you all very much
Our negotiators gained momentum with
sion-Uni
for that welcome to Canada. And, Mr.
the passage in the U.S. of our landmark
of the En
Prime Minister, it's a delight to be with you
environmental legislation, the Clean Air Act
Canada; A
and Mrs. Mulroney again. And to Minister
of 1990. Credit for this accord belongs to
Minister I
De Cotret, why, thank you, sir, for presid-
the EPA in our country, its able Administra-
Bob Slate
ing at this historic occasion, one that we've
tor, Bill Reilly, who is with us today. And of
Environm
been looking forward to very, very much.
To the Members of the Parliament and to
course, credit goes to the negotiators on
Chief of
both sides for the spirit in which they com-
Scowcroft,
our able Ambassador, Eddie Ney, it's a
pleted this task. Let me thank our special
tional Sec
great pleasure to be up here, and then to
negotiator, Dick Smith, and his colleagues,
ferred to
add my name, along with our country's
commitment, to an agreement of great en-
as well as their counterparts across the table
Derek Bur
vironmental importance. I too, would like
on the Canadian side for a job well-done.
United St.
to pay my respects to Mr. Darling. I can't
Beyond our common interest in our
Special A
With Can
say I have felt his lash or his determination
shared environment, this agreement says
as much as others in this Parliament have
something about our overall relationship.
felt-{laughter}-but I would like to assure
The fact that Canada and the United States
him that, while he was fighting the domes-
were able so quickly to craft a wide-ranging
tic battles here, sensitizing Canadians-and
and effective agreement on such a complex
News Co₁
sometimes it spilled over to sensitizing
subject says a lot about the extraordinarily
and Prim
those south of the border here-Ambassa-
strong relationship between our two coun-
Canada in
dors Gottlieb and Burney were no paper
tries.
March 13
tigers. They were on us like ugly on an ape,
Mr. Prime Minister, I do recall our own
I'll tell you. [Laughter] And they stayed on
discussions on environmental issues, and es-
The Pri
us, and appropriately so. Because I think,
pecially our meeting before I became Presi-
had an op
because of their leadership, they had
dent back in January of 1987. I made a
so far to
brought many in the United States Con-
comment then that made its way into more
tionships
gress and many in the administration to un-
than a few Canadian news reports, that I'd
the trade
derstand just how important a priority this
gotten "an earful" from you on acid rain.
begin the
was to the Prime Minister and to the Mem-
That was the understatement of the year.
situation i)
bers here. And so, I salute them as well.
[Laughter] So now, I came up here to prove
As you
Before I speak about this agreement
to you that I was listening, and all of us on
fairs Joe C
briefly, let me just make a brief comment,
the American side were listening. And
at dinner
to underscore my sincere appreciation for
again, we appreciate your strong advocacy,
the Midd.
the key contribution made by your country
your articulate advocacy of this principle
today and
to the coalition's recent victory in the war
that I think will benefit the American
ward to I
to liberate Kuwait. Mr. Prime Minister,
people, the Canadian people. And I like to
tonight.
since the very first minute that you and I
think it goes even beyond the borders of
Mr. Pre:
talked, Canada and the United States were
our two great countries.
The Pre.
appropriately, significantly side by side.
So, thank you very much. The treaty that
I'd say b.
And I thank you, sir, I thank the Canadian
we sign today is testimony to the serious-
would like
people, I thank the Members of this Parlia-
ness with which both our countries regard
the Canad
300
Administration of George Bush, 1991 / Mar. 13
ip for the
this critical e) onmental issue. And here
ter
for
the
st
ast support for the coali-
meaning in
is one that did take two to tango. Here is
tion and for principle of standing up
say that I
one where each had to come give a little
against this aggression in the Middle East.
o him end-
and take a little, and it's been worth it. And
And Canada, from day one, was on board,
er, and the
I think we're doing something good and
steadfast. The Prime Minister and I were in
one exact-
sound and decent today.
touch a lot, and I valued his counsel then,
3 are very,
Thank you all very, very much.
and I value his counsel now. But I really
wanted to thank the Canadian people for
ing to sign
Note: The Prime Minister spoke at 3:50 p.m.
the warm reception today and for their role
es we face
in the Reading Room at Parliament Hill. In
in the coalition.
ng nations.
his remarks, the Prime Minister referred to
ic summit,
E. Davie Fulton, Chairman of the Canadian
Arms Control
:al priority.
Section of the International Joint Commis-
Q. Mr. President, as you know, our Prime
ntum with
sion-United States and Canada; Minister
Minister has proposed a global arms summit
landmark
of the Environment Robert De Cotret of
under the U.N. auspices to stop the spread
ean Air Act
Canada; Michael Phillips, Assistant Deputy
of both conventional and nonconventional
belongs to
Minister for Canadian External Affairs;
weapons. I was wondering, sir, if you could
Administra-
Bob Slater, Assistant Deputy Minister for
tell us whether you endorse that mecha-
day. And of
Environment Canada; John H. Sununu,
nism as a way of tackling this problem.
gotiators on
Chief of Staff to the President; and Brent
The President. One of the goals that I
1 they com-
Scowcroft, Assistant to the President for Na-
spelled out, one of the points I made in my
our special
tional Security Affairs. The President re-
speech to our Congress was the need to do
colleagues,
ferred to the Prime Minister's wife, Mila;
something about the proliferation of weap-
SSS the table
Derek Burney, Canadian Ambassador to the
ons. I'll have a chance to talk to Prime Min-
well-done.
United States; and Richard J. Smith, U.S.
ister Mulroney about that. I'm not sure ex-
est in our
Special Negotiator for Acid Rain Talks
actly what the proper structure is, but
ement says
With Canada.
clearly, that idea might have some merit.
relationship.
But again, it's a little early. He has not
nited States
asked me to endorse that proposal, and
vide-ranging
again, I would like to talk to him before I
h a complex
News Conference of President Bush
commit ourselves further on it.
traordinarily
and Prime Minister Mulroney of
But the idea of coming together in a mul-
r two coun-
Canada in Ottawa
tilateral way to do something about the pro-
March 13, 1991
liferation of weapons into the Middle East is
all our own
something that has some appeal to me.
ues, and es-
The Prime Minister. The President and I
We've seen multilateral diplomacy try and,
came Presi-
had an opportunity for slightly over an hour
in some ways, be effective in the Middle
I made a
so far to review both some bilateral rela-
East, and I don't want to forget that. I don't
y into more
tionships and problems. that we do have in
want to start going it alone, and I don't
orts, that I'd
the trade area and elsewhere, but also to
think Canada wants to start going it alone.
n acid rain.
begin the process of discussing the evolving
of the year.
Middle East Peace Process
situation in the Middle East.
ere to prove
As you know, Secretary of External Af-
Q. Thank you, Mr. President. I would like
all of us on
fairs Joe Clark is returning tonight to join us
to ask you about Secretary Baker's trip to
ening. And
at dinner after an extensive trip throughout
the Middle East. Do you see any sign that
'g advocacy,
the Middle East. He left Tehran earlier
Israeli or Palestinian leaders are willing to
is principle
today and will be back, and we look for-
make any kind of fundamental change in
American
ward to pursuing these questions later on
their long-held positions?
nd I like to
tonight.
The President. I would say this, Terry
borders of
Mr. President.
[Terence Hunt, Associated Press], that the
The President. Thank you. The only thing
reports-and I've gotten a report every
treaty that
I'd say before taking questions is that I
night, each from Jim Baker, and then Brent
the serious-
would like to take this opportunity to thank
Scowcroft has been, I think, even in more
tries regard
the Canadian people and the Prime Minis-
touch with him-I think that the Secretary
301
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
January 31, 1991
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
DURING THE NATIONAL PRAYER BREAKFAST
The Washington Hilton Hotel
Washington, D.C.
9:50 A.M. EST
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much for that warm
welcome. And let me just greet our -- Prime Minister Henry here and
other visitors from overseas.
Prime Minister Ratu Mara and President Goncz over here and all the
And I want to pay my special respects to the members of
the Senate and House Prayer Group. I would also like to single out
Doug Coe, who has been such a guiding light in all of this.
(Applause.) And, of course, our special thanks to Joe Gibbs and to
Governor Buddy Romer for sharing in such a personal way their faith.
My heartfelt thanks goes out to everyone involved in this
marvelous event. Dr. Graham was reminding Barbara and me when we
attended. And I expect Ike would, if he could have attended this
and whether it would be a fulfilling experience for the people that
seemed very nervous about whether this would be the right thing to do
came over here of its genesis, and how President Eisenhower, he felt,
one, would have had no doubts whatsoever.
about Barbara's recent accident. In these days of environmental
I want to thank everyone for their concern and prayers
well terrorism -- (laughter) -- I can happily report that the tree is very
and so is Barbara Bush doing very well, I might say.
(Applause.) And I say that with considerable pride. (Applause.)
like it -- politically or anything else. But we do have one thing in
This is a diverse group. I've never seen anything quite
common: We stand together in prayer. Let me just share a letter --
her five-year-old son's evening prayers. As he knelt by his bed,
a true letter I received here from a mother who told me a story about
were going to pray together for President Bush so that he would have
this kid was kneeling in prayer, and his parents explained that they
the wisdom to get the hostages out of Iraq. And after a minute of
the people out of the rock, and how did they get there in the first
deep thinking, the little boy said, "Mom, how is a bush going to get
place?" Well, the mother, in her wrap-up of the letter, said that it
was a good thing the Lord knew what the boy was praying for, because
he sure didn't. (Laughter.) But, you know, the hostages came out of
Iraq. (Laughter.)
So I believe the Lord does hear our prayers. Joe put it
very beautifully here. I know our country is praying for peace. And
across this nation the churches, the synagogues, the mosques are
packed, record attendance at services. In fact, the night the war
began, Dr. Graham was at the White House. And he spoke to us then of
the importance of turning to God as a people of faith, turning to Him
in hope. And then the next morning, Dr. Graham went over to Fort
Myer where we had a lovely service leading our nation in a beautiful
prayer service there, with special emphasis on the troops overseas.
service, we were doing -- only doing what everyone in America was
So I expect when Barbara and I were there at that prayer
doing -- praying for peace.
MORE
- 2 -
You know, America is a nation founded under God. And
from our very beginnings we have relied upon His strength and
guidance in war and in peace. And this is something we must never
forget. Just yesterday -- you're going to think I do nothing but
read the mail -- (laughter) -- but just yesterday I got a letter from
a man who pointed out to me that during the State of the Union
message that I had neglected to make any mention of God. And I was
somewhat defensive about that, so I quickly went back and I did see
at the very end "may God bless America.' But then I got realizing
that this man was correct. I have learned what I suppose every
President has learned, and that is that one cannot be President of
our country without faith in God. And without knowing with certainty
that we are one nation under God. So I think I should have made that
clear -- more clear that God is our rock and salvation, and we must
trust Him and keep faith in Him.
And so we ask his blessings upon us and upon every
member, not just of our Armed Forces, but of our coalition armed
forces, with respect for the religious diversity that is represented
as these 28 countries stand up against aggression.
Today I'm asking and designating that Sunday, February
3rd, be a national day of prayer. And I encourage all people of
faith to say a special prayer on that day -- a prayer for peace; a
prayer for the safety of our troops; a prayer for their families; a
prayer for the innocents caught up in this war; and a prayer that God
will continue to bless the United States of America. (Applause.)
END
9:57 A.M. EST
Sept. 24 / Administration of George Bush, 1990
grips the District Building. That's why it is
So, when Maurice Turner invited me to
Congress, }
time for a change: time to put Chief Turner
come here today, I accepted before he
plan for the
in charge of the whole city.
could change his mind-|laughter]-be-
cal prisone:
cause I want to see this good, decent, hon-
for years a)
Maurice Turner knows this city inside
out, not just the Washington of monuments
orable man the next Mayor of Washington,
political ac
and marble, not the cruel Washington the
DC. Thank you all for what you're doing to
media have
world sees on the 6 o'clock news, but the
support him. Good luck, and God bless you
work has be
all.
and the Go
Washington of neighborhoods, of communi-
over the F
ties, of churches, of solid citizens and strong
Note: The President spoke at 8:26 a.m. in
Other grou
values-a Washington full of life and hope
and opportunity for everyone who calls this
the Grand Ballroom at the Mayflower
for the bel
city home. That's the Washington that Mau-
Hotel.
state of eme
the country.
rice Turner comes from, and it's the Wash-
Who amo
ington he'll fight to keep alive and flourish-
have anticip
ing. So, I ask every one of you to keep
ments? Clea
working hard for him, and I ask hard-work-
Remarks Following Discussions With
courage and
ing Washingtonians to give him your vote.
President F.W. de Klerk of South
Africa. The
Help Maurice Turner turn this city around.
Africa
the principle
One thing more, a message to all Wash-
September 24, 1990
government
ingtonians as you get ready to go to the
to tell you th
polls on November 6th: This past year, ev-
President Bush. To our friends from
what Preside
erywhere from streets and squares of East-
South Africa, once again, welcome to the
dela are tryi
ern Europe now to the sands of Saudi
White House. We've just come from an ex-
suit of this I
Arabia, we've learned a powerful lesson
traordinarily useful meeting. President de
this Presiden
about the risks people are willing to take to
Klerk and I have conversed on the phone
American pe
win freedom and keep it. I urge every citi-
several times in the past, but it was a great
South Afric
zen in the District of Columbia to get out
pleasure to hold this face-to-face meeting
based on re:
and vote. Do not take democracy for grant-
with the first South African leader to visit
universal suff
ed. Go to the polls and exercise your pre-
the United States in more than 40 years.
thority is res
cious right and vote for the candidate of
President de Klerk described for me in
word. South
your choice. If you take a little advice from
detail what he is trying to accomplish in
spect for hum
all of us here today, vote for Maurice
South Africa: the process of ending apart-
ty for all its C:
Turner. He's going to get the job done.
heid and negotiating a new political reality
to see an ecc
I know these are very trying times for
for all. We talked of this very promising,
freedom an
our country. They're trying times interna-
sometimes difficult situation, especially the
market forces
tionally. They're trying times certainly on
recent violence. And I think all Americans
ty that opens
the many domestic fronts that come togeth-
recognize that President de Klerk is coura-
remedy the
er to represent the entirety of the United
geously trying to change things. After all,
tions inflicte
States of America. I mentioned this out
we have seen in other parts of the world
many years b
campaigning the other day across the coun-
the culture of political violence overwhelm
Klerk agrees
try. I am proud that the country has come
the culture of dialog, and this must not
opportunity fc
together in the spirit of former Senator
happen to South Africa. The Government
And it is in
Vandenberg, certainly when it comes to
has a special responsibility to maintain
of sanctions
support for what we are trying to do in
order, but all political parties and groups
meetings tod:
rolling back aggression in the Middle East.
have a special responsibility to support the
obviously, we
The country is united, transcending political
process of peaceful transition.
come up. And
ideology, liberal or conservative; transcend-
One thing is apparent in this process of
As I stated,
ing party, Republican, Democrat, or even
change: The move away from apartheid
change in Sou
independent-everybody pulling together.
toward a new political reality is indeed irre-
that we'll bear
But we must not neglect the domestic
versible. And much has already happened.
sider specific
agenda. We're coming up into an election
Leading political figures, including Nelson
must be to su
cycle. I think it is beholden on those who
Mandela [African National Congress leader],
and of course,
hold office to get out and say what they
have been released from prison. The Gov-
Congress on tl
think.
ernment and the ANC, the African National
all the conditio
1428
Administration of George Bush, 1990 / Sept. 24
Congress, have reached an agreement on a
not yet been made, in spite of the dramatic
plan for the release of the remaining politi-
progress that we salute here today. But let
cal prisoners. Political organizations banned
me emphasize that these conditions are
for years are now free to conduct peaceful
clear-cut and are not opén to reinterpreta-
political activities, and restraints on the
tion, and I do not believe in moving the
media have largely been removed. A frame-
goalposts.
work has been agreed to between the ANC
Finally, we will be in touch with our tra-
and the Government to lead to negotiations
ditional allies in Western Europe and else-
over the political future of the country.
where on what we can do to help build
Other groups are invited to join in. Except
democracy in South Africa. It is only in this
for the beleaguered Natal, the nationwide
way that South Africa can again be fully
state of emergency has been lifted through
accepted into the wider international com-
the country.
munity.
Who among us only a year ago would
Apartheid has long hindered South Africa
have anticipated these remarkable develop-
from within, depriving it of the talent and
ments? Clearly, the time has come to en-
very dreams of millions of men and women.
courage and assist the emerging new South
Little wonder then that the end of apart-
Africa. The United States clearly endorses
heid holds the promise of unleashing the
the principle of constitutional democratic
government in South Africa, and I'm here
creative energies of the restless millions,
to tell you that I have enormous respect for
and that's why the end of apartheid can
what President de Klerk and Nelson Man-
really mean the beginning of a greater
South Africa.
dela are trying to achieve together in pur-
suit of this principle. And it is not simply
Mr. President, if you're successful in this
this President. I believe, sir, it's the entire
effort, South Africa around the world will
American people that feel that way.
become a beloved country not for one
South Africa needs a constitutional system
people but for all. And for that-your ef-
based on regular and free elections with
forts, your courage-you leave with our
universal suffrage, a civil society where au-
gratitude, our appreciation, and a hearty
thority is responsible in every sense of the
Godspeed. Good luck to you, sir, in this
word. South Africa needs an unvarying re-
wonderful endeavor. We're pleased you're
spect for human rights and equal opportuni-
here, very pleased, indeed.
ty for all its citizens. And we also would like
President de Klerk. Mr. President, ladies
to see an economic system that's based on
and gentlemen, may I, at the outset, also
freedom and individual initiative and
say publicly how appreciative we are of the
market forces. We believe that only a socie-
very kind reception which we have had
ty that opens equal opportunity to all can
here in the United States of America. For
remedy the social and economic depriva-
us it is, indeed, an historical occasion for me
tions inflicted on so many people for so
to be the first State President ever to visit
many years by apartheid. And President de
the shores of America from South Africa.
Klerk agrees with this principle of equal
From the moment we set foot here,
opportunity for all.
we've been overwhelmed with friendliness.
And it is in such a context that the issue
And in particular, Mr. President, I want to
of sanctions often arises. Although our
thank you for the very frank, very open,
meetings today were not about sanctions,
and very fruitful discussions which we were
obviously, we discussed it; the topic did
able to have today for over 2 hours.
come up. And let me just say a quick word.
I want to say, Mr. President, that from
As I stated, we believe the process of
the people of South Africa I bring a mes-
change in South Africa is irreversible, a fact
sage, a message of recognition for the awe-
that we'll bear squarely in mind as we con-
some responsibility which rests upon your
sider specific issues in the future. Our goal
shoulders in the handling of the very diffi-
must be to support the process of change,
cult situation in the Gulf. We admire you
and of course, I will consult fully with the
for the strong leadership which you have
Congress on these issues. And as you know,
shown, and South Africa has fully identified
all the conditions set in our legislation have
itself with that leadership. You can count on
1429
Sept. 24 / Administration of George Bush, 1990
us, as we have publicly stated, to support
use the window of opportunity which histo-
the steps you have taken to assure that de-
ry has given us to assure that we will bring
mocracy, and that the political process of
about a new and just South Africa.
dialog and the political process of keeping
In that process, the Government of South
all channels open will also be maintained in
Africa won't be acting unilaterally. Our goal
that part of the world. We will support you,
is to bring about this fundamental change,
sir, in the very definite steps you have
to bring about this new and just South
taken to assure that the unacceptable form
of aggression which manifested itself there
Africa on the basis of building and achiev-
ing a broad consensus between all the lead-
will be withstood; and South Africa will play
ers with proven constituencies, whether
its part in that regard. We wish you well in
handling this awesome and tremendous re-
they be large or small, in South Africa.
sponsibility.
We are making headway with that. There
Mr. President, I want to thank you for the
are some stumbling blocks in the way. We
acknowledgment of the new reality which
have a problem of volatility to deal with
exists in South Africa. There is, indeed, as
which sometimes erupts into violent situa-
you have stated, sir, a new reality; and the
tions which are totally unacceptable. We've
process in South Africa is indeed an irre-
taken steps in an impartial manner, through
versible one. There will be negotiations,
the use of our security forces, curbed the
and from those negotiations there will come
violence. We are as anxious as you are, sir,
about a new constitutional situation, a new
that we should move as soon as possible to a
constitution which will offer full political
situation where also in the province of
rights within the framework of internation-
Natal the state of emergency can be lifted
Africa
ally acceptable definitions of what democra-
and where the political process in South
cy really is.
Africa can be fully normalized. We've al-
Note:
There will be a vote of equal value to all
ready taken great steps in that direction.
the
South
South Africans. There will be effective pro-
I view, Mr. President, today as an impor-
to
their
tection of the very values which you in the
tant moment where real progress has been
cately
in
United States of America hold so dearly:
attained in normalizing our country's situa-
South Afrair
values such as an independent judiciary;
tion with regard to the international com-
Room. and
such as effective protection of the rights of
munity. You, sir-as leader of the strongest
Old Family Dr.
the individual in the form of a bill of rights,
country in the world, economically speak-
of checks and balances to prevent the abuse
ing and militarily speaking-your acknowl-
of majority power to the detriment or sup-
edgment of the progress which we have
pression of minorities and smaller commu-
made and your encouragement with regard
Proclamation 6
nities. There will be, in South Africa, the
to the progress which we are committed to
Lunch Week, 1
protection of fundamental values with
make in the future is, for us, extremely im-
regard to the assurance of an economic
portant.
September 24.
system which will create sufficient growth
I thank you for the warm reception. And
to meet the tremendous challenges which
By the Presiden.
I look beyond the immediate problèms and
we face in the field of addressing the prob-
of America
the historical problems, forward also to the
lems of poverty and illiteracy and housing
day when South Africa, the new South
A Proclamation
and urbanization.
Africa, with a new constitution and a new
Established le
There will be in South Africa-the proc-
government, will, together with the United
the National S
ess is irreversible-through negotiation a
States of America and other important
become the ma
new constitutional and economic dispensa-
powers-being one of the strongest regional
Child Nutrition
tion which will offer equal opportunities
powers in the Southern Hemisphere, being
School Lunch
and full democratic rights to all its people.
the hope of the rebuilding of prosperity and
In that sense of the word, the international
depth of our CC
opportunity for almost the whole continent
most vulnerable
community can rely on us. We will not turn
of Africa-where South Africa will, by
back. The fact, sir, that you have today
to be our polic
taking hands as we are now already doing
given recognition to this fact will serve as
security, to saf.
inspiration to us. We stand on the threshold
with you and with others, will play a con-
being of the !
of a tremendously exciting period in the
structive role in ensuring stability on the
courage the do
history of our country. We are adamant to
globe, in ensuring that the vision which we
tious agricultu:
share with you of peace between all coun-
food.'
1430
Administration George Bush, 1990 / Sept. 24
which histo-
tries-where we can make a contribution to
When he signed the National School
we will bring
ensure that that vision will also become re-
Lunch Act on June 4, 1946, President
ica.
ality.
Truman observed that, "in the long view,
nent of South
We wish you, sir, and the American
no nation is any healthier than its children
ally. Our goal
people everything of the best. We invite
or more prosperous than its farmers." By
ental change,
you to play the constructive role which you
promoting good nutrition among our Na-
d just South
have spelled out here today. South Africa is
tion's schoolchildren, as well as the pur-
In and achiev-
going to overcome its problems. South
chase and distribution of U.S. agricultural
1 all the lead-
Africa will become once again a proud
products, the National School Lunch Act
ies, whether
member of the international community.
has benefitted not only America's youth and
I Africa.
And South Africa will be a trustworthy
farmers but also the entire country.
h that. There
friend of the United States of America in
Since its enactment, the National School
the way. We
maintaining the very values on which your
Lunch Program has been expanded to in-
to deal with
system is built.
clude the School Breakfast Program. Legis-
violent situa-
My country, ladies and gentlemen, today
lation has also been enacted to provide free
table. We've
finds itself in step, in step with the basic
meals to children from families with very
iner, through
value systems of this great country, the
low incomes. Today the National School
;, curbed the
United States of America. And we say to
Lunch Program serves appetizing and nu-
you are, sir,
you, sir, thank you for a kind reception.
tritious meals to more than 23 million chil-
; possible to a
Everything of the best in your endeavors to
dren in over 91,000 schools. Recognizing
province of
assure global peace. You will not find South
the importance of a good breakfast to learn-
can be lifted
Africa lacking in support when you need it.
ing, nearly half of these institutions also par-
:ess in South
ed. We've al-
ticipate in the School Breakfast Program
Note: President Bush spoke at 1:30 p.m. at
at direction.
and provide nutritious morning meals to
the South Portico of the White House. Prior
nearly 4 million children each day. Over 80
as an impor-
to their remarks, the two Presidents met pri-
percent of these children receive breakfast
ress has been
vately in the Oval Office and with U.S. and
without charge because they are from fami-
ountry's situa-
South African officials in the Cabinet
lies with low incomes.
national com-
Room, and then attended a luncheon in the
The School Breakfast and National School
the strongest
Old Family Dining Room.
nically speak-,
Lunch Programs not only encourage par-
our acknowl-
ticipating students to develop healthy
ich we have
eating habits, but also help to ensure that
children come to class ready and able to
t with regard
committed to
Proclamation 6185-National School
learn. By providing the Nation's schoolchil-
Lunch Week, 1990
dren with nutritious meals, these valuable
extremely im-
September 24, 1990
programs help to ensure that they have the
energy, stamina, and good health needed to
ception. And
By the President of the United States
remain eager and attentive students. In so
problems and
d also to the
of America
doing, these programs strengthen the edu-
cational process.
new South
A Proclamation
n and a new
During National School Lunch Week, we
h the United
Established less than half a century ago,
pay due recognition to the many concerned
the National School Lunch Program has
Americans who devote their time and skill
r important
become the mainstay of the United States'
gest regional
to providing children around the country
Child Nutrition programs. The National
with good nutrition at school. These individ-
phere, being
School Lunch Act of 1946 underscored the
uals include Federal and State officials, food
osperity and
depth of our concern for our youngest and
ole continent
service professionals, school administrators,
most vulnerable citizens. It also declared it
ca will, by
teachers, parents, local civic leaders, and
to be our policy "as a measure of national
Iready doing
many volunteers. Their generous coopera-
security, to safeguard the health and well-
play a con-
tive efforts are a wonderful example of a
being of the Nation's children and to en-
ility on the
successful partnership among Federal and
on which we
courage the domestic consumption of nutri-
State governments and local communities.
tious agricultural commodities and other
en all coun-
By joint resolution approved October 9,
food."
1962 (Public Law 87-780), the Congress
1431
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(North Carolina)
FOR Immediate Rolease
October 21, 1992
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT THOMASVILLE WELCOME
Thomasville, North Carolina
3:12 P.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: What a great North Carolina day.
(Applause.) Thank you, Governor Jim Martin. I'll tell you
something -- the people of North Carolina are lucky to have such
a quality man of character leading this state as Jim Martin.
(Applause.) And now we've got to keep that character and quality
going by electing Jim Gardner to be the next Governor of North
Carolina. (Applause.)
I'm delighted to see a man here who supports me and
supports our country so much -- Congressman Howard Coble.
(Applause.) If we had more like him they wouldn't be yelling,
"Clean House" at me. We need more like him. And while we're at
it, we need to help of our distinguished guest today, Senator
Strom Thurmond, one of America's truly greats over here.
(Applause.) And we need to help him by cleaning Senate. And
that means send our friend, Lauch Faircloth to the United States
Senate.
Lauch Faircloth is one of the great -- he'd be a
great senator. He'll go up there and change things. And the
status quo is what's wrong. We need him in the Senate. Send him
up there. He's doing just great. (Applause.)
And then we've got another sportsman here. I think
of North Carolina as a sporting state, one that loves athletics.
Charlotte's coming on strong. We've got Darryl Waltrip right
here, one of America's greats. (Applause.)
And so we've got them all. And now we're ready to
go. And let me thank everybody responsible for this wonderful
rally -- the great bands from Thomasville, East Davidson, and
Ledford High Schools. (Applause.) And it's great to be here
with last year's state champions, the Thomasville High School
Bulldogs. (Applause.)
And can I tell you something as a satisfied
customer? You've got to make the best furniture in the entire
world. (Applause.) Not only is it made right here, but also
there's a certain generosity of spirit by the commanies and the
workers involved, because I'm told that you were sending
furniture to the victims of Hurricane Andrew. That is the
American spirit, and I'm very grateful to you. (Applause.)
And now on to the business at hand. Did anybody
watch that debate the other night? (Applause.) Let me tell you
-- well, I thought we did all right, i thought we did okay. But
let me tell you this. What I think you saw was a vast difference
in experience, certainly a vast difference in philosophy, and a
vast difference in character. And character matters for
President of the United States. (Applause.)
Governor Clinton made a horrible comment. He said
he wants to do for the United States what he's done for Arkansas.
That would be terrible.
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- 2 -
AUDIENCE: BOOOOOO.
THE PRESIDENT: Let me click off some gloomy
statistics and then we'll get on to something a little more
positive. Arkansas -- you've got this Ozone Man on the ticket
with him -- you know, Gore. Arkansas ranks the 50th in quality
of environmental standards; it ranks 50th in per capita spending
on criminal justice; it ranks 49th in per capita spending on
police protection; it ranks 48th in percentage of adults with
high school diplomas; it is 48th on spending on corrections; 46th
on teachers' salaries; and 45th in the overall well-being of
children. You cannot take a failing Little League coach and put
him on to coach the Atlanta Braves -- manage the Braves.
(Applause.)
He calls this change. He says he's the candidate of
change. well, let's take a close look at what he offers. How
about this one for openers -- and he hasn't got there: $150
billion in new taxes and $220 in new spending. That is trickle-
down government and we don't need it in Washington, D.C.
(Applause.) He says he'd take it to the -- sock it to the rich.
Watch out, middle America. Watch out, struggling nurse or family
person. He's going to stick it right in your wallet -- and you
don't need that anymore. Let's get the taxes down and the
spending down. (Applause.)
The last time we got that kind of change -- you
don't have to go back to Herbert Hoover. Go back to when you had
a liberal Democrat in the White House and you had a Democrat
spendthrift Congress that Lauch Faircloth wants to change. Go
back and take a look. That was in the days of Jimmy Carter.
Now, do you remember what interest rates --
AUDIENCE: B00000.
THE PRESIDENT: sorry, gang, but it's true. Do you
remember what the interest rates were? Twenty-one and a half
percent. Twenty-one percent. Inflation was robbing every senior
citizen in this country -- 15 percent. We cannot go back to that
failed policy. (Applause.) You keep going with that kind of
change and change is all you'll have left in your pocket. We've
got to do better.
And my philosophy is this: Cut the spending and cut
the taxes and put more money -- put more money into the pockets
of the American working man. (Applause.) And one way to do that
is create more markets abroad. It's exports that have saved us
in the global slowdown. We've got to increase exports, create
more markets for the goods that are produced right here in North
Carolina. And we can do it. But we can't do it by turning
inward.
It's small business -- it's small business that
creates the jobs in this country and we ought never to forget it.
And that means -- they create two-thirds of the new jobs. And
that means we need relief for taxation from small business; we
need relief from regulation; and certainly, we nec relief from
litigation. We are suing each other too much in this country --
(applause) -- and caring for each other too little.
Legal reform is what we need. It's a sorry thing
when malpractice insurance is running health care costs up for
every American. When a guy sees somebody lying by the highway
and doesn't dare stop to help him because they're afraid some
trial lawyer will come along and sue him, when a person doesn't
coach Little League because he's scared of getting a lawsuit by
some nutty lawyer it is time to put a lid on this. Sue each
other less, care for each other more. (Applause.)
And one big difference I've got is with him on
health care. He wants to put a government board in to kind of
ration out the health care of this country. And I want to make
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- 3 -
insurance available to the poorest of the poor. I want to give a
tax credit to middle America so they can get a little relief.
And make insurance available to everybody, but keep the quality
up. We've got the best doctors in the world. Keep the quality
up by keeping government under control. (Applause.)
A big difference on education. You see, he wants to
put the control more in Washington. And I say this: We want to
put control in the hands of the families. We did it in child
care and now I want to do it in school choice. Help parents send
their kids to all schools -- public schools, private schools, and
religious schools. (Applause.) And he won't do that. And I am
proud that under my administration more money is going to kids to
help them go to college than anytime in the history of this
country. (Applause.)
You know, as I ride along the rails and I see these
crossings, I see law enforcement people out helping us at every
crossing. And let me just say this: strom Thurmond, one of the
great leaders for strong anticrime legislation, is fighting in
the Senate to make our laws tougher so that we back up our law
enforcement officials and have more consideration for the victims
of crime and less for the criminals. (Applause.) That's what
we've got to do.
And what is Arkansas's policy? Arkansas's prisoners
spend 20 percent of their sentences in jail. That's not good
enough.
AUDIENCE: Booooo.
THE PRESIDENT: If a guy busts a law -- and
certainly, if they kill a law enforcement officer, they ought to
stay there until they get on Willard Scott's program on that
100th birthday. (Applause.)
You heard the difference the other day between how
we get the government spending down. I'll give you three ideas.
You give us Lauch Faircloth and we're going to help Strom get
that job done. One, a balanced budget amendment. (Applause.)
Two, a taxpayers' check-off that says if you're concerned about
the deficit, check your tax return, and 10 percent of it has to
go to lowering the deficit. And if Congress can't make the
priorities, make them cut right straight across the board until
we get the job done. (Applause.)
And the last one is, I want that line-item veto.
Forty-three governors have it. (Applause.) Forty-three
governors have it. Let's stop that pork barrel spending, do
what's right for the American people, but not do what's right for
the reelection of every member of the United States Congress.
And, frankly, I like the idea of turning the Congress back to the
people by putting on term limits. The President is limited, why
not the Congress? (Applause.)
You know, the other night I guess one of the big
differences came -- this was in the Richmond debate --- when
Governor Clinton said it's not the character of the President, he
says it's the character of the presidency. And to that, I say
they're inseparable. You cannot separate it out. And character
matters.
And the liberals don't like it when I talk about
family values, but America knows what I mean. We've got to
strengthen the family. (Applause.) And they don't like it when
I say, yes, we're one nation under God -- and we are -- and we'd
better never forget it. (Applause.)
But my argument with the Governor of Arkansas is you
can't please everybody. I found that out in this job. You've
got to call them as you see them. And if you make a mistake, you
admit it. You don't try to cover it up and say one thing to one
MORE
group and another thing to another group. And therein is a
question of character -- on everything from the right to work
laws, to term limits, to free trade, to the Persian Gulf, he's
tried to be on one side and then another. And you cannot do that
as President, and that is a matter of character. (Applause.)
There's a pattern of deception here, and America
better look at it. There is a pattern of deception. I love what
Governor Martin said about the patriotism of this state, serving
your country -- and, yes, North Carolina responded perhaps more
than any other state in Desert Storm. (Applause.)
But where was Governor Clinton? Where was Governor
-- never mind. Don't let this guy say that. You're going to get
me in trouble with the media. And who would want to do that?
(Applause.)
But let me remind you where that man that wants to
be commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces. This one didn't
happen 23 years ago, this one happened about a year and a half
ago. And what he said was -- at the time, I had to make a very
tough decision, leading the country and the Congress to make a
tough decision -- he said this. He said, well, I agreed with the
minority, but I guess if it were a close vote, I guess if it were
a close vote I would have voted with the majority. If we had
listened to him -- Governor Martin is right -- Saddam Hussein
would be in downtown Saudi Arabia and controlling the world oil
supply and have a nuclear bomb. We didn't listen to that kind of
waffle; we went ahead and made a tough decision. (Applause.)
Character counts. Character matters. You cannot be all things
to all people. And, yes, it matters.
Let me say this. First place, I wish Barbara Bush
were here because I think we've got a great First Lady.
(Applause.) But, you know, she and I have talked about this --
and as you know, we are blessed in our family. We're blessed
with a bunch of grandkids, blessed with five wonderful children.
And so, life has treated us pretty good. But when people are
hurting in this country you feel it. You feel it right in your
heart. And so I want to win this election not because I need
this job, but I want to continue to serve the American people and
lift up the hopes of these kids. (Applause.) We have literally
changed the world.
AUDIENCE: Four more years! Four more years!
THE PRESIDENT: We have literally changed the world.
And the kids in these bands over here go to bed at night without
that same fear of nuclear war that gripped their parents, and
that is substantial change for world peace. (Applause.)
And now what we've got to do is take that same
leadership with a new and changed Congress -- and there will be
one -- and lift up America. We are not, as Clinton says, a
nation in decline. We are the greatest, fairest, freest nation
on the face of the Earth. And now let's make it better. Now
let's make it better. (Applause.) Help me. But the change I'm
talking about -- remember, send Lauch Faircloth to the United
States senate. We must change the Senate. Reelect Howard coble,
let's move America forward. And thank you, and may God bless
this greatest country on the face of the Earth. Thank you all
very much. (Applause.)
END
3:27 P.M. EDT
#9811
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(Wisconsin)
For Immediate Release
October 31, 1992
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT BURLINGTON WELCOME
Burlington Train Depot
Burlington, Wisconsin
9:00 A.M. CST
THE PRESIDENT: Well, thank you all. Before we say
all aboard, let me thank Tommy Thompson for being at my side
through thick and thin. When everything looked a little more
difficult than it does today, he stayed right at our side. He
has been an outstanding Governor. He has led not just this
state, but many in the country by the example you all have set,
the example he has set. And I am very proud to have the
Thompsons as good, close personal friends of the Bush family.
Thank you, Tommy. (Applause.)
May I thank Mayor Hefty and our Republican chairman
Dave Opitz; and John MacIver, and old friend, helping so much on
our campaign. But there's some real business ahead for next
Tuesday. We must keep Bob Kasten in the United States Senate.
He is doing a superb job for our country. (Applause.) A real
leader up there. so do not gamble with the future. Make sure
you've got Bob Kasten returned to the Senate.
And, you know, everyplace I go -- haven't seen them
here today -- but you see these signs saying, "Clean House."
Clean House. People are tired of that House of Representatives
being controlled by that same body for 38 years -- the one
institution that hasn't changed. Send Mark Neumann to the United
States Congress. (Applause.)
And we Bushes are delighted to be here in Burlington
-- the Chocolate City, USA. (Applause.) If my opponent were
here today he might even inhale, it smells so good. (Laughter.)
Don't take it personally, Bill, please. (Laughter.) These guys
can dish it out, but they can't take it too well. Well, anyway.
And may I salute the veterans here today from the
VFW. And let me just say this: I am proud to have worn. the
uniform of this country. I believe in honor, duty and country.
(Applause.) And I salute those who served.
Today is Halloween, our opponents' favorite holiday.
(Laughter.) They are literally trying to scare America. The
only way that the Clinton-Gore ticket can win is if they convince
us that we're a nation in decline. And here's the way they do
it. They say we're less than Germany, but a little more than Sri
Lanka -- or if they can convince the hard-working families in
this country that we're in a deep recession. Neither is true.
We are the most respected nation in the world. And our economy,
thank God, is moving forward. (Applause.)
And so the difference on Tuesday is going to be a
difference between experience, a philosophy, and yes, it is very
important -- character matters. (Applause.)
You know, for months, Governor Clinton has been ill-
defining our record and talking very little about his. So on
this lovely Saturday, let me just tell you some facts about
- 2 -
Arkansas. I won't dwell on it because I don't want to ruin this
day.
Arkansas -- 50th in the quality of environmental
initiatives; 50th in the percentage of adults with college
degrees; 50th in per capita spending on criminal justice; 49th in
spending on police protection; 48th in percentage of adults with
a high school diploma; 48th in spending on corrections; '46th on
teachers' salaries -- getting better -- 45th on the overall well-
being of children. And he said in the debate, "I want to do for
America what I've done for Arkansas." No way! We're not going
to let him do that. (Applause.)
Please point out I did not invent that expression.
(Laughter.)
Governor Clinton says he's a candidate of change.
And let's take a close look -- a little look -- at what he's
talking about. Under him every day is going to be Halloween:
fright and terror. He dreams of -- he talks about government
investing. The answer is not to have government investing by
taking more of your taxes. The answer is for us to stimulate
small business by tax relief, less regulation, and less lawsuits
that finish off a lot of these small businesses. (Applause.)
The last time we had his kind of change, remember
what it was like. He loves to point out -- he goes, let's go
back to Herbert Hoover. Let's not -- let's go back to Jimmy
Carter, when you had a Democrat in the White House and that
spendthrift Congress, led by those liberal Democrats. And what
did you have? Maybe some of the young ones don't remember.
Interest rates, 21.5 percent; inflation 15 percent; the Misery
Index that they invented twice as much as it is now. And you
want that kind of change -- change is all you'll have left in
your pocket if you put this guy into office. (Applause.)
No, a lot of families are hurting, but the economy
is moving. And the worse news in the world -- you could see the
tears coming down the face of the Governor and the Ozone Man.
You could see it when the tears trickled down their face because
it came out that our economy grew for the sixth straight quarter,
and grew at 2.7 percent. We're on the move. Now let's keep it
going, but don't do it by raising taxes and increasing government
spending. (Applause.)
Our plan does just -- here's what it does. It
controls the growth of spending. It holds the line on taxes.
And then I'm saying to the American people, give me these four
things: Give us a balanced budget amendment. Republicans want
it. Conservative Democrats want it. Discipline the Congress and
the Executive Branch by a balanced budget amendment. (Applause.)
Give us a check-off give you all a check-off, so
if you feel strongly about the deficit you check a little box on
your tax return, up to 10 percent of your tax, and that must go,
under the law, to reducing the federal deficit. If Congress
can't do it, let the people have a say and try to get it done.
(Applause.)
And give us a -- then the next thing -- 43 governors
have it. Give us a line-item veto and let's stomp out some of
the waste out of the spending. (Applause.)
And the fourth one, let's have the Congress, like
the presidency, let's have some term limits on the United States
Congress. (Applause.)
You know, small business creates two-thirds of the
new jobs. And all we hear from Governor Clinton is let's get
government to invest. Government never invested productively a
dime in anything. And so we want to free up that small business
sector, by giving them relief and letting them lead the way to
new heights, new recovery and new opportunity for these kids here
today. (Laughter.)
And I mentioned litigation. We are suing each
other too much and caring for each other too little in this
country. And it is a crying shame when a doctor is afraid to
deliver a baby because of a malpractice suit; when a Little
League coach is afraid to coach because somebody might bring a
nutty lawsuit against them; or when you're driving along the
highway, you see somebody hurt, you want to stop but you're
afraid to for afraid somebody will say, oh, they moved the body
just wrong, and slap you with one of these ridiculous lawsuits.
Let's put a cap on these lawsuits that are finishing off --
(applause) -- a lot of goodwill and finishing off a lot of small
businesses.
Health care -- we've got a good plan: Making
insurance available to the poorest of the poor; pool insurance so
you bring the prices down; and do something about malpractice
that costs $20 billion to $25 billion a year. But do not let the
government ration health care or control prices because we'll
fail here like many others who have tried it failed abroad.
(Applause.)
Education -- education, Wisconsin's in the lead.
And we've got a good record and we've got a good program. It
says it's not good enough to do it the way the subcommittee
chairmen in Washington say. Give it -- give the power not to the
teachers union, but to the teachers. And God bless our teachers
who are doing so much for our kids. (Applause.) And give
parents -- Milwaukee has led in this, Milwaukee has led -- give
parents the choice of public, private, or religious schools.
Help them, and that will make all schools better. (Applause.)
Welfare reform -- we've got bold new programs. And
let me just salute your Governor for leading the nation with
learnfare and workfare and trying to break the cycle of welfare.
That is a compassionate approach, the strong approach. And I
salute Tommy Thompson and I want to see this happen for the
entire country. (Applause.)
Crime -- we've got a very positive record. Our
spending to support our law enforcement officers is way up. The
Arkansas record is sorry. The other day who came to see me in
the Oval Office -- eight officers. They were from the Little
Rock Fraternal Order of Police. And they endorsed me for
President of the United States. (Applause.)
And the point I'm going to make right down to the
election is that character counts. You cannot make the White
House into the Waffle House. You cannot flip-flop on all these
issues. And whether it's right to work, whether it's term
limits, whether it's free trade -- whatever it is, Governor
Clinton can be on one side and then heroically on the other side.
And I am telling you that Harry Truman was right -- the buck does
stop on that Oval Office desk. And it is a question of character
if you keep trying to waffle and be on all sides.
Let me give you one key example. I had to mobilize
probably the most historic world coalition we've ever seen in
order to stand up against aggression in the Middle East. And I
had to go against all these talking-head pundits; I had to go
against demonstrations; I had to go against a determined Democrat
majority in the House until we won them over.
And where was Governor Clinton the day I made that
fateful decision? He said, well, "I agree with the arguments of
the minority, but I guess I would have voted with the majority."
What kind of leadership is that? That is a waffle. There is a
pattern of deception here, and we cannot have that in the Oval
Office. (Applause.)
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- 4 -
You cannot lead -- you cannot lead by misleading.
And finally, let me wrap it up by saying -- in the first place,
I'm elated that there's only three days more to go. We can
Barbara and I can hardly believe it. I've given you some
positive reasons, whether it's crime or education or welfare
reform, to vote for me for President. But I'll give you another
one. I think we've got the best First Lady we possibly could
have. (Applause.)
But let me tell you why I believe that character --
AUDIENCE: Barbara! Barbara! Barbara!
THE PRESIDENT: Barbara's a perfect 10, the man
says. Okay.
But let me tell you why, in a serious moment here
before we take this exciting train trip -- let me tell you why I
believe that character really does count. Remember -- I cited
this in the debate, but Horace Greeley said this: Fame is a
vapor, popularity an accident; riches take wing. Only character
endures. And I really believe that that's especially true in the
presidency. And it matters not just because of the plans you
make, but because of the crises that you never possibly can
foresee.
And, yes, the world is much safer today. But as
Dick Cheney, our able Secretary of Defense, reminded us the other
day, who knows where the next crisis will come? The Soviet bear
is dead, but there are a lot of wolves out there in the woods.
So imagine, a year from today, if you picked up a newspaper out
in front of your house and you read about some upheaval, some
unforeseen upheaval, some terrorist getting ahold of a nuclear
weapon, and how you would react to that. And I believe that
you've got to close your eyes, imagine in that dangerous
situation an American leader without any experience, completely
untested, a leader about whom literally we know very, very
little. And what we do know is this troubling pattern that I
mentioned -- this pattern of being on one side, pattern of
indecisiveness.
And so I don't believe that we can take this kind of
risk -- not now, not in this incredibly uncertain time, and not
when our children's security is at stake. And when that next
crisis occurs -- and you can bet that somewhere it will --
whether it's at home or abroad, the entire world is going to look
to the American presidency.
Bill Clinton says it's not the character of the
President, it's the character of the presidency. Wrong. They're
interconnected, they're locked. And SO you've got to ask, what
is character. A friend said, well, it's acting alone the same
way you would act with a million people watching. That's a good
description. But while nobody may be watching in the Oval
Office, millions will feel the impact of the judgment of the
President of the United States.
And I've been tested. We've managed world change
that I think history will record as almost biblical proportions.
These young kids here go to bed at night without the same fear of
nuclear war that their mothers and dad had. And that is a major
accomplishment, and we as a country can take great pride in it.
(Applause.)
But I'll never forget when we were faced with a
crisis now known as Desert Storm. I didn't waver. I took a
stand. I made the decision to go to war because I knew it was
right, not because I felt it was popular. You've got to go back
and remember all the predictions of the body bags, and how I
hadn't convinced the country, and how the demonstrators were
expressing the will of the people, and that I had to make a
lonely decision.
on I ,
And I'll never forget being with Barbara up at a
little chapel we have there at Camp David, when we had to make a
decision when I had just made a decision. A couple of days
later America's sons and daughters would go into war again. It
is not an easy decision. And you've got to do it from conviction
all the way. And it's an awesome responsibility to ask anybody's
kid to possibly knock on death's door early. It's a
responsibility that I've tried very hard to fulfill with honor
and decency and, yes, duty -- above all, I hope integrity.
And so that's your call. And now as we go down to
the wire on November 3rd, and all the polling and all the pundits
won't make any difference at all. And it's up to the people.
And when you enter that voting booth, please ask yourself three
common-sense questions: Who has the right visions for America's
economic future? Who can lead us through this global transition?
And which candidate has the character -- who would you trust with
your family; who would you trust with your country when a crisis
arrives?
Ideas, action, and character -- I have tried hard to
be a proponent of all three. And may God bless this country. Go
to the polls. We need your support. We are going to win this
election for the young people here today. Thank you, and God
bless each and every one of you. (Applause.)
END
9:15 A.M. CST
#9816
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(Auburn Hills, Michigan)
For Immediate Release
November 1, 1992
REMARKS BY. THE PRESIDENT
AT OAKLAND COUNTY WELCOME
Palace of Auburn Hills
Auburn Hills, Michigan
2:10 P.M. EST
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. (Applause.)
Thank you, thank you, thank you. (Applause.) Bill -- thank you
Bill Laimbeer. Thank you all very, very much for the welcome to
the Palace. And I am very proud to have Bill Laimbeer at my
side. I think that's going to get us in there for victory in
Michigan. so, Bill, thank you very much. (Applause.)
Let's slam-dunk our opponent, the Governor from
Arkansas, on Tuesday. (Applause.)
No, I'm delighted to be here -- very proud to have
at my side and running our campaign perhaps the most effective
leader this state has ever seen, but in any event, the great
Governor John Engler. I salute him and thank him. (Applause.)
Do me a favor. Help me clean House. (Applause.)
Clean it out. And here's how we're going to do it. Here's how
we're going to do it. Elect Megan O'Neill -- (applause) -- elect
Dick Chrysler, John Pappageorge -- (applause) -- Joe Knollenberg
-- elect them and we can help make a big step toward cleaning
House. That one institution has not changed for 38 years. And
now we can make a big change. (Applause.)
I want to thank Mitch Ryder and the band. I want to
thank all these high school bands -- just fantastic music.
(Applause.) And I want to salute my friend, our MC, Brooks
Patterson -- you've got a good one there. (Applause.) And also
the party leaders, because. here's when we get down to getting out
the vote and getting down to the crunch. And Dave Doyle and the
rest of them are doing a first-class job. So go to the polls.
Bring your neighbors and let's carry the state of Michigan.
(Applause.)
I am absolutely confident of victory because the
American people are going to decide that there is a vast
difference in experience, a vast difference in philosophy, and,
yes, a vast difference in character. (Applause.) You know, I
think finally one of the reasons is we're getting in perspective
exactly what has happened in Arkansas since this man has been
Governor. And they don't like it, but it doesn't hurt to tell
the truth. And here it is: Arkansas is the 50th in the quality
of environmental initiatives -- 50th state.
AUDIENCE: Booo --
THE PRESIDENT: HOW do you environmentalists like
that? Fiftieth in the percentage of adults. with college degrees.
AUDIENCE: Booo --
THE PRESIDENT: It gets worse, hold your fire.
Fiftieth in per capita spending on criminal justice; 49th -- wait
a minute, they're going up here -- 49th in per capita spending on
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police protection; 48th in the percentage of adults with a high
school diploma. A little more for you guys here.
AUDIENCE: Booo --
THE PRESIDENT: Forty-eight for spending on
corrections; 46th in teachers' salaries; 45th in the overall
well-being of children. And Governor Clinton said, "I want to do
for the country what I've done for Arkansas. No way.
AUDIENCE: BOOO --
THE PRESIDENT: We cannot let that happen to this
country. This country's just beginning to move. (Applause.)
Governor Clinton says he's the candidate of change.
We'll get to Ozone Man in a minute. (Laughter.) Let's look
closely at what Governor Clinton offers, and this is one thing
the American people should focus on now in the last day before
this campaign -- $150 billion in new taxes.
AUDIENCE: Booo --
THE PRESIDENT: -- $220 billion new spending. You
talk about trickle-down, that's trickle-down government. Take it
from the people and have government spend it. And we're not
going to let that happen. (Applause.)
And you hear the same old siren's call -- you hear
the same old siren's call: Well, we'll take it from the rich.
There aren't enough rich people. so all you cab drivers, all you
nurses, all you overworked teachers, watch out -- watch out for
it. Watch your pocketbook and watch your wallets. They're
coming right after you. (Applause.)
You know, they talk about change, change, change.
And all you have to do is remember the last time we had a man
like Governor Clinton as President and a Democrat-controlled
Congress. You had change all right. You had inflation at 15
percent; you had interest rates -- 21.5 percent, you had a Misery
Index at 20. And we cannot let that happen to the United States.
(Applause.) Change, change, change.
AUDIENCE: No way, Bill! No way, Bill!
THE PRESIDENT: No way, that's right. Change --
change is all you'll have left in your pocket if you let this
guy become President of the United States of America.
(Applause.)
And you know the only way -- the only way they can
win is by scaring America that we' re in some deep recession.
Look, the economy is growing. We are caught up in a fragile
international economy. You hear them talk -- Governor Clinton
says we're something less than Germany and a little above Sri
Lanka. But let me tell you something: Our economy is doing
better than Germany, better than Japan better than Canada. And
if we keep going the way we're moving now and get our programs
in, we'll be leading the entire world. (Applause.)
Yes, people are hurting. Yes, people are hurting in
this country. But we don't need to make it worse for them by
going back to tax and spend. We need our program. And let me
tell you what it is.
First place, we're going to open new markets.
Exports have saved us. We are going to open new markets for
American products all around the world. We are not going to go
protection. We think we have the best workers in the world. Now
let's open those markets. (Applause.)
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And we're going to have -- we're going to continue
to have a strong environmental policy. But we are not going to
go to the extreme. Governor Clinton and the Ozone Man, they --
(applause) -- well, here's what they want to do. They're backing
off a little now because they're on all sides of every issue.
They want to go and put a 40 to 45-mile-per-gallon CAFE standard
-- fuel efficiency standard -- on American autos.
AUDIENCE: Boooooo!
THE PRESIDENT: And that will throw auto workers out
of work. And I'm not going to go to the extreme. We are not
going to go to the extreme on this environment. (Applause.)
And instead of those crazy government policies, we
are going to inspire and invigorate small business. And here's
how we're going to do it. Two-thirds of the jobs created are in
small business, so we're going to get relief from taxation,
relief from regulation, and, yes, relief from litigation.
(Applause.)
We have got to have legal reform. These trial
lawyers are backing Governor Clinton right up to the hilt. The
lead trial lawyer in Arkansas said, "Don't worry. Bill won't go
against us on tort reform." Look, we've got Little League
coaches that are afraid to coach; we've got doctors that are
afraid to bring babies into the world because of a lawsuit; we've
got people that are afraid to help people along the highway
because they'r afraid to be sued. And we've got to put an end
to these crazy lawsuits. And we're going to do it. (Applause.)
And whatever your politics, you should have an
interest in that one. And we've got to sue each other less and
care for each other more in this country. (Applause.)
Big difference on health care. We've got the great
health care program. And we're going to get it through because
there is going to be a cleaning of the House, and there's going
to be 100 new members of Congress. And the reason is those guys
up there can't even run a two-bit post office or of a two-bit
bank. (Applause.) So we're going to 100 or maybe 150 new
members of Congress. And we're going to get this health care
program through.
We're going to provide health care, insurance to the
poorest of the poor through vouchers. We're going to help the
overburdened next income bracket and the income tax range there
by tax credit. We're going to pool the insurance so the small
operator can get the same cost benefits as the larger ones --
large companies. And then we're going to do this: We are going
to say no to Governor Clinton's want to let the government ration
health care through this board he is proposing. (Applause.)
Health care for all. Health care for all, but use market forces
to get it done.
On education, I've got a big difference with
Governor Clinton on this one. I cited the sorry record in
Arkansas. Now we've adopted -- we've adopted national education
goals for the very first time. And I give Governor Clinton
credit for this one, because as a Governor he worked with us on
this. The program is this: Renew, literally reinvent American
schools and give parents the choice of schools -- private, public
or religious. (Applause.) And that competition will make all
the public schools better. It works in Wisconsin, it can work
right across this country. (Applause.)
On welfare reform we've got to break the cycle of
welfare. Too many people, generation after generation dependent.
So what we're going to do is go nationally with the waiver
system, give those states the right to put in workfare. People
are going to get the check, let them do a little work and work
their way off of the welfare. (Applause.)
And learnfare -- help people to learn, these kids.
It's a tragedy, generation after generation. Make part of the
welfare reform learnfare so people on welfare will have the
privilege of an education in this country and be able to do
better.
We've gone after these deadbeat dads; we're going to
keep after them. (Applause.) And, yes, I don't care what the
liberal elite says, family is important. And family values are
important. (Applause.)
And we need to help all families -- single parent,
whatever it is. But we need to help them by getting better crime
-- out of -- getting crime out of our areas. We've got to have
better crime legislation. We better get some that supports the
police and some that has more compassion for the victims of crime
and a little less for the criminals. (Applause.)
And I'll tell you what I mean -- Arkansas, people
that are sentenced there spend 20 percent of their sentence in
jail. And under the federal jurisdiction, which is mine, 85
percent. We must support our local police officers. (Applause.)
And awhile back I had a visit from eight guys from
Arkansas, and they came up to endorse me for President of the
United States. And they were the Fraternal Order of Police in
Arkansas in Little Rock. (Applause.) And I was proud to have
their endorsement. (Applause.)
We've got to get the deficit down, but Bill Clinton
talks about let government invest. Government never created a
job. It is small business and private sector that creates jobs.
(Applause.) So if you want to get the deficit down, here's the
way to do it: Control the growth of these mandatory spending
programs, give us a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution
to discipline the Congress -- (applause) -- give us -- give every
taxpayer the right to check 10 percent of his tax return. And if
you want it to go to the deficit, make the Congress put it on the
deficit. (Applause.) Give the President what 43 governors have
-- a line-item veto, and let the President draw a line through
this excessive spending, (Applause.) And I'll throw in a fourth
measure -- I think it's time to give the Congress back to the
people. I want term Aimits for the members of the United States
Congress. (Applause.)
And here's the last point: I mentioned character
and trust. Well --
AUDIENCE: We love you.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I hope so. (Applause.)
There's been a little panic in Little Rock, because
I think they see that the goal that Bill Clinton has been eagerly
awaiting ever since he was studying in Oxford might be slipping
away from him. (Applause.) He's begun attacking my character.
And I love to fight this one out in the last couple of days on
character and trust. (Applause.) Yes, he is a character.
(Applause.) But being attacked -- being attacked on character by
Governor Clinton is like being called ugly by a frog. We don't
need to worry about it. (Applause.) We didn't invite that term
Slick Willy. We didn't invite it. It's come in from Arkansas.
It was all through the Democratic primary. We are not going
after his character. We're doing what Harry Truman is. We tell
the truth and they think it's hell. So be it. We're simply
telling the truth. (Applause.)
It's difficult for him to level with the American
people -- and here I'm very serious. You can't have it both ways
as President of the United States. You can't tell one story and
then another. In April, for example, on the draft, he said he
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would release all his draft records. And he never has done that
to this day. He is waffling and ducking --
AUDIENCE: Booooo.
THE PRESIDENT: -- and bobbing and weaving. And you
cannot do that as President. (Applause.)
Listen, a lot of people opposed the war and I
understand that. That's not the point here. The point is there
is a pattern as Prof deception. On one side of the issue one
day, and another side the next. And you cannot do that in the
Oval Office. (Applause.)
I think -- I know, I know a lot of the media don't
like this. I know a lot of our friends in the media don't like
this. In fact, I like these hats -- Annoy the Media: Reelect
Bush. (Applause.) Let me divert for a minute. Have you ever
seen a year where -- they have their own seminars, "have we been
fair?" They know very well they haven't, but we're going to win
without them. (Applause.)
Listen. Before you get too angry about this, share
my frustration about it, please grant amnesty to the good guys --
the photographers, the guys carrying the boom mikes. Somebody
stuck them with the American flag the other day. These are our
friends. They are good people. Don't harass them. Save your
rile for those that aren't here -- those Sunday talk show people.
Those guys that are telling us how we're going to vote.
(Applause.)
But, you know, I mentioned the draft. Even today we
have new evidence -- an affidavit that when Governor Clinton
first ran for office his friends used special connections to
seize his ROTC file and destroy all others. He's got to level
with the American people on this kind of thing.
But it's not just the draft, it's not just the
draft. You know my differences with him on organizing
demonstrations. Look, people objected to the war. But I make a
distinction, when your brothers or your peers are in a jail in
Hanoi, or kids are being drafted out of the ghetto to go into
that war that was not a popular war, I simply think it is wrong
to go to a foreign country and organize demonstrations against
the United States of America. And that's what he did.
(Applause.)
And all his apologists out there, all these talking
heads say, oh, yes, but it was 23 years ago. Okay, if it was
wrong to do that, just say SO. If you make a mistake, admit it.
I have done it, and that's what you have to do as President of
the United States. (Applause.)
But the pattern continues. One time he's for the
North American Free Trade Agreement; another he started to be
against it, then in the debate say, well, I'm for it, but I will
make some changes. You cannot have a lot of buts in the Oval
Office. You've got to call them as you see them. (Applause.)
Term limits, CAFE standards, whatever it is, he's
got a position for whatever audience he's talking to. And I
really mean this, you loose all credibility as President if you
try to do that on every issue. And let me finish this little
start -- this little beginning here by saying, here's what he
said on the war. It was a tough decision, tough time for our
country. People were divided. And here's what Governor Clinton
courageously said about the time I had to make this decision. He
said, "I agree with the arguments the minority made, but I guess
I would have voted with the majority." What kind of waffle iron
is that.
AUDIENCE: Booo --
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THE PRESIDENT: You can't do it. You cannot be here
and there. The bottom line is -- the bottom line is we simply
cannot take the risk on Governor Clinton -- character,
inexperience -- his experience and character do not meet the
criterion of the Oval Office. And the world is still a dangerous
place. We've made great progress. And, frankly, I take great
pride in the fact that with a very able team, I was President
when we greatly reduced the threat of nuclear war to every family
here and around the world. (Applause.) Great that we had
ancient enemies talking to each other in the Middle East; that
the Soviet Union is no longer international communism, but
democracy on the move. A lot of progress toward world peace.
And I was thrilled the other day -- yesterday, as a
matter of fact, when an announcement came out of Baghdad. Saddam
Hussein's government plan a big party the next day, after the
election, because they think Governor Clinton is gong to win.
Hold the phone, Saddam. They are not going to have a
demonstration in Baghdad, because they're going to have to
contend with me with four more years. (Applause.)
AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!
THE PRESIDENT: Well, actually the other night in
Michigan, Governor Clinton told a voter that he's already thought
about what he's going to do as President. He said he's going to
play his saxophone in the White House. And he's already planning
the inauguration parade, you know. Hold the phone, Bill. Hold
the phone. We are going to show that you're not going to be in
the White House and you're not going to have the parade. And the
press are going to be wrong about you. (Applause.)
The day before that -- the day before that he said
he was an underdog, and then yesterday he was a saxophone player
in the White House. He's waffling even on that. (Applause.)
I've got a lesson for him. I know he studied at
Oxford and I know when. But he might not understand how
democracy works. It's not the pundits, it's the people that
decide these elections. And that's why we're going to do it.
(Applause.)
You know, I believe it's going to boil down to
character and trust. I think we've already kind of won the
debate on taxing and spending. People do not want to tax and
spend more. They want a little relief from taxation and a little
less government spending. (Applause.)
But the bottom line is -- the bottom line is you
cannot have this pattern of deception and deceiving. I will tell
you this: the toughest decision I had to make did relate to the
war. And I remember being up there at Camp David with Barbara a
day or so before the battle actually began. And it is tough when
you have to send somebody else's son or somebody else's daughter
into harm's way into combat. But you can't waffle. You've got
to get your judgment made up and then you've got to say, here's
what we're going to do. And I did it, and I have no regrets.
And as a result of doing it, we lifted the entire world --
(applause) -- and we bashed -- we bashed aggression. We bashed
aggression, and we restored hope in the United States of America.
And now, you go to the polls. And SO I'm going to
ask -- in the first place, you've got to work hard. You've got
to go there and get the vote out. One of the reasons we're going
to win, we've got the most committed supporters. We've got
people like you all who are going to go to those polls.
(Applause.)
And then I'm going to look into the lens the evening
of the election, and I say to America, give me your support based
on trust, based on character, based on confidence in the United
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States of America. I want to lead this country, finish the job,
restore hope and opportunity to every young person here.
(Applause.) And with your help, we're going to get the job done.
Thank you all. (Applause.) And may God bless the
United States of America. (Applause.) Thank you so very much
for a great rally. (Applause.)
END
2:43 P.M. EST
#9649
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(Richmond, Virginia)
For Immediate Release
October 15, 1992
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT,
GOVERNOR BILL CLINTON, AND MR. ROSS PEROT
IN SECOND PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE OF 1992
Robins Center
University of Richmond
Richmond, Virginia
9:00 P.M. EDT
MS. SIMPSON: Good evening and welcome to the second
of three presidential debates between the major candidates for
President of the United States. The candidates are the
Republican nominee, President George Bush; the independent, Ross
Perot; and Governor Bill Clinton, the Democratic nominee.
My name is Carol Simpson and I will be the moderator
for tonight's 90-minute debate which is coming to you from the
campus of the University of Richmond in Richmond, Virginia.
Now, tonight's program is unlike any other
presidential debate in history. We're making history now, and
it's pretty exciting. An independent polling firm has selected
an audience of 209 uncommitted voters from this area. The
candidates will be asked questions by these voters on a topic of
their choosing -- anything they want to ask about. My job as
moderator is to take care of the questioning, ask questions
myself if I think there needs to be continuity and balance, and
sometimes I might ask the candidates to respond to what another
candidate may have said.
Now, the format has been agreed to by
representatives of both the Republican and Democratic campaigns,
and there is no subject matter that is restricted. Anything
goes. We can ask anything. After the debate the candidates will
have an opportunity to make a closing statement.
So, President Bush, I think you said it earlier --
let's get it on.
THE PRESIDENT: Let's go.
MS. SIMPSON: And I think the first question is over
here.
9 I'd like to direct my question to Mr. Perot.
What will you do as President to open foreign markets to fair
competition from American business and to stop unfair competition
here at home from foreign countries so that we can bring jobs
back to the United States?
MR. PEROT: That's right at the top of my agenda.
We've shipped millions of jobs overseas and we have a strange
situation because we have a process in Washington where after
you've served for awhile you cash in, become a foreign lobbyist,
make $30,000 a month; then take a leave, work on presidential
campaigns, make sure you got good contacts and then go back out.
Now, if you just want to get down to brass tacks,
first thing you ought to do is get all these folks that have got
these one-way trade agreements that we've negotiated over the
years and say, fellas, we'll take the same deal we gave you. And
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they'll gridlock right at that point, because, for example, we've
got international competitors who simply could not unload their
cars off the ships if they had to comply -- you see, if it was a
two-way street; just couldn't do it.
We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. To those
of you in the audience who are business people, pretty simple --
if you're paying $12, $13, $14 an hour for factory workers and
you can move your factory south of the border, pay $1 an hour for
labor, hire young -- let's assume you've been in business for a
long time, you've got a mature work force. Pay $1 an hour for
your labor, have no health care -- that's the most expensive
single element in making a car have no environmental controls,
no pollution controls and no retirement, and you don't care about
anything but making money, there will be a giant sucking sound
going south.
So if the people send me to Washington, the first
thing I'll do is study that ,000-page agreement and make sure
it's a two-way street.
I have one last part here. I've called -- I decided
I was a dumb and didn't understand it, so I called the who's who
of the folks that have been around it. And I said, why won't
everybody go south? They say, it would be disruptive. I said,
for how long? I finally got them up for 12 to 15 years. And I
said, well, how does it stop being disruptive? And that is, when
their jobs come up for $1 an hour to $6 an hour, and ours go down
to $6 an hour, then it's leveled again. But in the meantime,
you've wrecked the country with these kinds of deals. We've got
to cut it out.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Perot. I see that the
President has stood up, so he must have something to say about
this.
THE PRESIDENT: Carole, the thing that saved us in
this global economic slowdown has been our exports. And what I'm
trying to do is increase our exports. And if, indeed, all the
jobs were going to move south because of lower wages, there are
lower wages now and they haven't done that. And so I have just
negotiated with the President of Mexico, the North American Free
Trade Agreement and the Prime of Canada, I might add. And
I want to have more of these free trade agreements, because
export jobs are increasing far faster than any jobs that may have
moved overseas. That's a scare tactic because it's not that
many. But any one that's here, we want to have more jobs here.
And the way to do that is to increase our exports.
Some believe in protection. I don't. I believe in
free and fair trade. And that's the thing that saved us, and so
I will keep on, as President, trying to get a successful
conclusion to the GATT Round, the big Uruguay Round of trade
which will really open up markets for our agriculture,
particularly. I want to continue to work after we get this NAFTA
agreement ratified this coming year. I want to get one with
Eastern Europe; I want to get one with Chile. And free and fair
trade is the answer: not protection.
And as I say, we've had tough economic times, and
it's exports that have saved us, exports that have built.
MS. SIMPSON: Governor Clinton.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I'd like to answer the question,
Lecause I've actually been a Governor for 12 years, SO I've known
a lot of people who have lost their jobs because of jobs moving
overseas, and I know a lot of people whose plants have been
strengthened by increasing exports.
The trick is to expand our export base and to expand
trade on terms that are fair to us. It is true that our exports
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to Mexico, for example, have gone up and our trade deficit's gone
down. It's also true that, just today, a record high trade
deficit was announced with Japan.
So what is the answer? Let me just mention three
things very quickly. Number one, make sure that other countries
are as open to our markets as our markets are to them. And if
they're not, have measures on the books that don't take forever
and a day to implement.
Number two, change the tax code. There are more
deductions in the tax code for shutting plants down and moving
overseas than there are for modernizing plant and equipment here.
Our competitors don't do that. Emphasize and subsidize
modernizing plant and equipment here, not moving plants overseas.
Number three, stop the federal government's program
that now gives low interest loans and job training funds to
companies that will actually shut down and move to other
countries, but we won't do the same thing for plants that stay
here. So more trade, but on fair terms, and favor investment in
America.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you. I think we have a question
over here.
world -- that Я is, outside of Washington, D.C., compensation and
This is for Governor Clinton. In the real
achievement are based on goals defined and achieved. My question
is about the deficit. Would you define in specific dollar goals
how much you would reduce the deficit in each of the four years
of a Clinton administration, and then enter into a legally
binding contract with the American people that if you did not
achieve those goals that you would not seek a second term?
Answer yes or no, and then comment on your answer, please.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: No, and here's why: And I'll
tell you exactly why. Because the deficit now has been building
up for 12 years. I'll tell you exactly what I think can be done.
I think we can bring it down by 50 percent in four years and grow
the economy.
Now, I could get rid of it in four years in theory
on the books now, but to do it you'd have to raise taxes too much
and cut benefits too much to people who need them, and it would
even make the economy worse.
Mr. Perot will tell you, for example, that the
expert he hired to analyze his plan says that it will bring the
deficit down in five years, but it will make unemployment bad for
four more years. So my view is, sir, you have to increase
investment, grow the economy and reduce the deficit by
controlling health care costs, prudent reductions in defense,
cuts in domestic programs and asking the wealthiest Americans and
foreign corporations to pay their fair share of taxes, and
investing in growing this economy.
I ask everybody to look at my economic ideas. Nine
Nobel Prize winners and over 500 economists and hundreds of
businesspeople, including a lot of Republicans, said this is the
way you've got to go. If you don't grow the economy, you can't
get it done. But I can't foresee all the things that will
happen, and I don't think a President should be judged solely on
the deficit.
Let me also say we're having an election today.
You'll have a shot at me in four years and you can vote me right
out if you think I've done a lousy job; and I would welcome you
to do that.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. President?
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THE PRESIDENT: Well, I've got to -- I'm a little
confused here because I don't see how you can grow the deficit
down by raising people's taxes. You see, I don't think the
American people are taxed too little, I think they're taxed too
much. I went for one tax increase, and when I make a mistake, I
admit it. Say that wasn't the right thing to do.
Governor Clinton's program wants to tax more and
spend more -- $150 billion in new taxes, spend another $220
billion. I don't believe that's the way to do it.
Here's some things that will help. Give us a
balanced budget amendment. He always talks about Arkansas having
a balanced budget, and they do. But he has a balanced budget
amendment -- have to do it. I'd like the government to have
that. And I think it would discipline not only the Congress,
which needs it, but also the Executive Branch.
I'd like to have what 43 governors have -- the line-
item veto. So if the Congress can't cut, we've got a reckless
spending Congress, let the President have a shot at it by wiping
out things that are pork barrel or something of that nature.
I've proposed another one. Some sophisticates think
it may be a little gimmicky -- I think it's good. It's a check-
off. It says to you as a taxpayer -- say, you're going to pay a
tax of $1,000 or something -- you can check 10 percent of that if
you want to in one box, and that 10 percent, $100, or if you're
paying 000, whatever it is -- $1,000 -- check it off, and
make the government, make it lower the deficit by that amount.
And if the Congress won't do it, if they can't get together and
negotiate how to do that, then you'd have a sequester across the
board. You'd exempt Social Security -- I don't want to tax or
touch Social Security. I'm the President that said, hey, don't
mess with Social Security, and we haven't.
So I believe we need to control the growth of
mandatory spending -- back to this gentleman's question -- that's
the main growing thing in the budget. The program that the
President -- two-thirds of the budget, I, as President, never get
to look at -- never get to touch. We've got to control that
growth to inflation and population increase, but not raise taxes
on the American people now. I just don't believe that would
stimulate any kind of growth at all.
MS. SIMPSON: How about you, Mr. Perot?
MR. PEROT: Well, we're s4 trillion in debt and
we're going into debt an additional $1 billion -- a little more
than S1 billion every working day of the year. Now, the thing I
love about it -- I'm just a businessman. I was down in Texas,
taking care of business, tending to my family. This situation
got so bad that I decided I had better get into it. The American
people asked me to get into it. But I just find it fascinating
that while we sit here tonight, we will go into debt an
additional $50 million in an hour and a half.
Now, it's not the Republicans' fault, of course; and
it's not the Democrats' fault. And what I'm looking for is who
did it? Now, they're the two folks involved, so maybe if you put
them together, they did it. Now, the facts are we have to fix
it.
We are leaving -- I'm here tonight for these young
people up here in the balcony from this college. When I was a
young man, when I got out of the Navy, I had multiple job offers.
Young people with high grades can't get a job. The 18-year-old
to 24-year-old high school graduates 10 years ago were making
more than they are now. In other words, we were down to -- 18
percent of them were making -- the 18-to-24-year-olds were making
less than $12,000. Now that's up to 40 percent. And what's
happening in the meantime -- the dollar's gone through the floor.
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Now, whose fault is that? Not the Democrats; not
the Republicans. Somewhere out there there's an extraterrestrial
that's doing this to us, I guess. (Laughter.) And everybody
says they take responsibility. somebody, somewhere has to take
responsibility for this. Put it to you bluntly, the American
people: if you want me to be your President, we're going to face
our problems, we'll deal with the problems, we'll solve our
problems. We'll pay down our debt. We'll pass on the American
Dream to our children. And I will not leave our children a
situation that they have today.
When I was a boy, it took two generations to double
the standard of living. Today it will take 12 generations. Our
children will not see the American Dream because of this debt
that somebody, somewhere dropped on us.
MS. SIMPSON: You're all wonderful speakers and I
know you have lots more to add. But I have talked to this
audience and they have lots of questions on other topics. Can we
move to another topic, please?
We have one up here, I think.
Q Yes, I'd like to address all the candidates
with this question. The amount of time the candidates have spent
in this campaign trashing their opponents character and their
programs is'depressingly large. Why can't your discussions and
proposals reflect the genuine complexity and the difficulty of
the issues to try to build a consensus around the best aspects of
all proposals?
MS. SIMPSON: who wants to take that one?
(Laughter.) Mr. Perot, you have an answer for everything, don't
you? Go right ahead, sir. (Laughter.)
MR. PEROT: No, I don't have an answer for
everything. As you all know, I've been buying 30-minute segments
to talk about issues. And tomorrow night on NBC from 10:30 p.m.
to 11:00 p.m. Eastern, we're going to talk about how you pay the
debt down. so we're going to come right down to that one, see.
We'll be on again Saturday night 8:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. on ABC.
(Laughter.)
MS. SIMPSON: Okay, okay --
MR. PEROT: So the point is -- finally, I couldn't
agree with you more -- couldn't agree with you more. And I have
said again and again and again, let's get off mud wrestling,
let's get off personalities, and let's talk about jobs, health
care, crime the things that concern the American people. I'm
spending my money not PAC money, not foreign money -- my money
to take this message to the people.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Perot. So that seems
directed. He would say it's you gentlemen that have been doing
that. Mr. Clinton -- Governor Clinton. how do you -- President
Bush, how would you like to respond?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, in the first place, I believe
that character is a part of being President. I think you have to,
look at it. I think that has to be a part of candidate for
President or being President. In terms of programs, I've
submitted, what, four different budgets to the United States
Congress in great detail. They're SO heavy they'd give you a
broken back. And everything in there says what I am for. Now,
I've come out with a new Agenda for America's Renewal, a plan
that I believe really will help stimulate the growth of this
economy.
My record on world affairs is pretty well-known,
because I've been President for four years. So I feel I've been
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talking issues. Nobody likes the -- likes who shot John. But I
think the first negative campaign run in this election was by
Governor Clinton. And I'm not going to sit there and be a
punching bag. I'm going to stand up and say, hey, listen, here's
my side of it. But character is an important part of the
equation.
The other night, Governor Clinton raised -- I don't
know if you saw the debate the other night -- suffered through
that. (Laughter.) Well, he raised a question of my father. It
was a good line, well-rehearsed and well-delivered. But he
raised a question of my father and said, well, your father,
Prescott Bush, was against McCarthy. You should be ashamed of
yourself McCarthyism.
I remember something my dad told me. I was 18 years
old, going to Penn Station to go into the Navy. And he said,
write your mother -- which I faithfully did. He said, serve your
country. My father was an honor, duty and country man. And he
said, tell the truth. And I've tried to do that in public life,
all through it. And that has said something about character.
My argument with Governor Clinton -- you can call it
mud wrestling, but I think it's fair to put it. in focus -- is I
am deeply troubled by someone who demonstrates and organizes
demonstration in a foreign land when his country's at war.
Probably a lot of kids here disagree with me. But that's what I
feel. That's what I feel passionately about. I'm thinking of
Ross Perot's running mate sitting in the jail -- how would he
feel about it. But maybe that's generational. I don't know.
But the big argument I have with the Governor on
this is this taking different positions on different issues,
trying to be one thing to one person here that's opposing the
NAFTA agreement and then for it -- what we call waffling.
And I do think that you can't turn the White House
into the waffle house, you've got to say what you're for. And
you have got to --
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. President, I am getting time cues,
and with all due respect I'm sorry --
THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me, I don't want to -- no, go
ahead, Carole:
MS. SIMPSON: Governor Clinton.
THE PRESIDENT: I get wound up because I feel
strongly.
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, you do. (Laughter.)
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Let me say first of all to you
that I believe so strongly in the question you asked that I
suggested this format tonight. I started doing these formats a
year ago in New Hampshire, and I found that we had huge crowds
because all I did was let people ask questions and I tried to
give very specific answers. I also had a program starting last
year.
I've been disturbed by the tone and the tenor of
this campaign. Thank goodness the networks have a fact check SO
I don't have to just go blue in the face anymore that Mr. Bush
said once again tonight I was going to have a s150-billion tax
increase. When Mr. Quayle said that all the networks said,
that's not true. He's got over $100 billion in tax cuts and
incentives.
So I'm not going to take up your time tonight, but
let me just say this. We'll have a debate in four days and we
can talk about this character thing again, but The Washington
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Post ran a long editorial today saying they couldn't believe Mr.
Bush was making character an issue and they said he was the
greatest "political chameleon" for changing his positions of all
time.
Now, I don't want to get into that --
THE PRESIDENT: Please don't say anything by The
Washington Post.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Wait a minute. Let's don't --
you don't have to believe that. Here's my point. I'm not
interested in his character. I want to change the character of
the presidency. And I'm interested in what we can trust him to
do and what you can trust me to do and what you can trust Mr.
Perot to do for the next four years. so I think you're right,
and I hope the rest of the night belongs to you.
MS. SIMPSON: May I -- I talked to this audience
before you gentlemen came and I asked them about how they felt
about the tenor of the campaign. Would you like to let them know
what you thought about that -- when I said are you pleased with
how the campaign's been going?
AUDIENCE: Nooo --
MS. SIMPSON: Who wants to say why you don't like
the way the campaign is going?
Q
If I may, and forgive the notes here but I'm
shy on camera. (Laughter.) The focus of my work is a domestic
mediator. is meeting the needs of the children that I work with
by way of their parents, and not the wants of their parents. And
I ask the three of you, how can we as, symbolically, the children
of the future President, expect the two of you -- the three of
you -- to meet our needs, the needs in housing and in crime and
you name it, as opposed to the wants of your political spin
doctors and your political parties?
MS. SIMPSON: So your question is --
Q
Can we focus on the issues and not the
personalities and the mud? I think there is a need -- if we
could take a poll here with the folks from Gallup, perhaps -- I
think there is a real need here to focus at this point on the
needs.
MS. SIMPSON: How do you respond? How do you
gentlemen respond to --
MR. CLINTON: I agree with him.
MS. SIMPSON: President Bush?
THE PRESIDENT: Let's do it. Let's talk about
programs for children.
Q
Could we cross our hearts and, it sounds silly
here, but could we make a commitment? You know, we're not under
oath at this point, but could you make a commitment to the
citizens of the United States to meet our needs -- and we have
many and not yours again? You know, I repeat that that's a
real need I think that we all have.
THE PRESIDENT: I think it depends on how you define
it. I mean, I think, in general, let's talk about these issues,
let's talk about the programs. But in the presidency, a lot goes
into it. Caring goes into it -- that's not particularly
specific. Strength goes into it -- that's not specific.
standing up against aggression that's not specific in terms of
a program. This is what a President has to do.
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so, in principal, though, I'll take your point. I
think we ought to discuss child care or whatever else it is.
MS. SIMPSON: And you two?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Ross had his hand up.
MR. PEROT: No hedges, no ifs, ands and buts, I'll
take the pledge. Because I know the American people want to talk
about issues and not tabloid journalism. So I'll take the pledge
and we'll stay on the issues.
Now, just for the record, I don't have any spin
doctors, I don't have any speechwriters. Probably shows.
(Laughter.) I make those charts you see on television even.
(Laughter.) But you don't have to wonder if it's me talking.
Hey, what you see is what you get. If you don't like it, you've
got two other choices, right?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Wait a minute. I want to say
just one thing now, ROSS, in fairness. The ideas I express are
mine. I've worked on these things for 12 years, and I'm the only
person up here who hasn't been part of Washington in any way for
the last 20 years. So I don't want the implication to be that
somehow everything we say is just cooked up and put in our head
by somebody else. I worked 12 years very hard as a Governor on
the real problems of real people. I'm just as sick as you are by
having to wake up and figure out how to defend myself every day.
I never thought I'd ever be involved in anything like this.
MR. PEROT: May I finish?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, you may finish.
MR. PEROT: Very briefly?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, very briefly.
MR. PEROT: I don't have any foreign money in my
campaign. I don't have any foreign lobbyists on leave in my
campaign. I don't have any PAC money in my campaign. I've got
five and a half million hard-working people who have put me on
the ballot. And I belong to them.
MS. SIMPSON: Okay.
MR. PEROT: And they are interested in what you're
interested in. I'll take the pledge -- I've already taken the
pledge on cutting the deficit in half. I never got to say that.
There's a great young group, Lead or Leave -- college students,
young people who don't want us to spend their money. I took the
pledge we'd cut it out.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you. We have a question here.
Q Yes. I would like to get a response from all
three gentlemen. And the question is, what are your plans to
improve the physical infrastructure of this nation, which
includes the water system, the sewer system, our transportation
systems, et cetera? Thank you.
MS. SIMPSON: The cities. who is going to fix the
cities, and how?
THE PRESIDENT: I'd be glad to take a shot at it.
MS. SIMPSON: Please.
THE PRESIDENT: I'm not sure that -- and I can
understand if you haven't seen this because there's been a lot of
hue and cry. We passed this year the most farthest-looking
transportation bill in the history of this country since
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9
Bisenhower started the interstate highways -- $150 billion for
improving the infrastructure. That happened when I was
President. And so I am very proud of the way that came about and
I think it's a very, very good beginning.
Like Mr. Perot, I am concerned about the deficits.
And $150 billion is a lot of money, but it's awful hard to say
we're going to go out and spend more money when we're trying to
get the deficit down. But I would cite that as a major
accomplishment.
We hear all the negatives. when you're President,
you expect this. Everybody's running against the incumbent.
They can do better; everyone knows that. But here's something
that we can take great pride in because it really does get to
what you're talking about. Our home initiative, our
homeownership initiative, HOPE, that passed the Congress is a
good start for having people own their own homes instead of
living in these deadly tenements.
our enterprise zones that we hear a lot of lip
service about in Congress would bring jobs into the inner city.
There's a good program. And I need the help of everybody across
this country to get it passed in substantial way by the Congress.
When we went out to South Central in Los Angeles --
some of you may remember the riots there. I went out there, I
went to a Boy's Club, and every one of them -- the Boy's Club
leaders, the ministers, all of them were saying, pass enterprise
zones. We go back to Washington and very difficult to get it
through the Congress.
But there's going to be a new Congress. No one
likes gridlock. There's going to be a new Congress because the
old one -- I don't want to get this man mad at me, but there was
a post office scandal and a bank scandal. You're going to have a
lot of new members of Congress. And then you can sit down and
say, help me do what we should for the cities, help me pass these
programs.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. President, aren't you threatening
to veto the bill, the urban aid bill, that included enterprise
zones?
THE PRESIDENT: sure, but the problem is you get so
many things included in a great, big bill that you have to look
at the overall good. That's the problem with our system. If you
had a line-item veto, you could knock out the pork, you could
knock out the tax increases, and you could do what the people
want, and that is create enterprise zones.
MS. SIMPSON: Governor Clinton, you're chomping at
the bit.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: That bill pays for these urban
enterprise zones by asking the wealthiest Americans to pay a
little more. And that's why he wants to veto it -- just like he
vetoed an earlier bill this year -- this is not mud slinging,
this is fact slinging --
THE PRESIDENT: They're you go.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: A bill earlier this year -- this
is fact -- that would have given investment tax credits and other
incentives to reinvest in our cities and our country. But it
asked the wealthiest Americans to pay a little more.
Mr. Perot wants to do the same thing. I agree with
him -- I mean, we agree with that.
Let me tell you specifically what my plan does: My
plan would dedicate $20 billion a year in each of the next four
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years for investments in new transportation, communications,
environmental cleanup and new technologies for the 21st century.
And we would target it especially in areas that have been either
depressed or which have lost a lot of defense-related jobs.
There are 200,000 people in California, for example,
who have lost their defense-related jobs. They ought to be
engaged in making high-speed rail. They ought to be engaged in
breaking ground in other technologies, doing waste recycling,
clean water technology and things of that kind. We can create
millions of jobs in these new technologies -- more than we're
going to lose in defense if we target it. But we're investing a
much smaller percentage of our income in the things you just
asked about than all of our major competitors. And our wealth
growth is going down as a result of it. It's making the country
poorer, which is why I answered the gentleman the way I did
before.
We have to both bring down the deficit and get our
economy going through these kinds of investments in order to get
the kind of wealth and jobs and incomes we need in America.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Perot, what about your plans for
the cities? You want to tackle the economy and the deficit
first.
MR. PEROT: First, you've got to have money to pay
for these things. So you've got to create jobs. And there are
all kinds of ways to create jobs in the inner city. Now, I am
not a politician, but I think I could to Washington in a week and
get everybody holding hands and get this bill signed, because I
talked to the Democratic leaders and they want it; I talked to
the Republican leaders, and they want it. But since they are
bred from childhood to fight with one another rather than get
results -- I would be glad to drop out and spend a little time
and see if we couldn't build some bridges.
Now, results is what counts. The President can't
order Congress around; Congress can't order the President around.
That's not bad for a guy that's never been there, right? But you
have to work together. Now, I have talked to the chairmen of the
committees that want this. They're Democrats. The President
wants it, but we can't get it because we sit here in gridlock
because it's a campaign year. We didn't fund a lot of other
things this year, like the savings and loan mess. That's another
story that we're going to pay a big price for right after the
election.
The facts are, though the facts are, the American
people are hurting. These people are hurting in the inner
cities. We're shipping the low-paying -- quote, "low-paying"
jobs overseas. What are low-paying jobs? Textiles, shoes,
things like that that we say are yesterday's industries. They're
tomorrow's industries in the inner city.
Let me say in my case, if I'm out of work, I'll cut
grass tomorrow to take care of my family. I'll be happy to make
shoes. I'll be happy to make clothing. I'll make sausage. You
just give me a job. Put those jobs in the inner cities, instead
of doing diplomatic deals and shipping them to China, where
prison labor does the work.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Perot, everybody thought you won
the first debate because you were plain-speaking and you made it
sound, oh, SO simple -- we'll just do it. what makes you think
that you're going to be able to get the Democrats and Republicans
together any better than these guys?
MR. PEROT: If you asked me if I could fly a fighter
plane or launch -- be an astronaut, I can't. I've spent my life
creating jobs. It's something I know how to do. And very simply
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in the inner city, they're starved. You see, small businesses is
the way to jump-start the inner city.
MS. SIMPSON: Are you answering my question?
(Laughter.)
MR. PEROT: You want jobs in the inner city? DO you
want jobs in the inner city? Is that your question?
MS. SIMPSON: No, I want you to tell me how you're
going to be able to get the Republicans and Democrats in Congress
--
MR. PEROT: Oh, I'm sorry.
MS. SIMPSON: -- to work together better than these
two gentlemen.
MR. PEROT: I've listened to both sides. And if
they would talk to one another instead of throwing rocks, I think
we could get a lot done. And among other things, I would say,
okay, over here in this Senate committee, to the chairman, who is
anxious to get this bill passed, to the President who's anxious
-- I'd say rather than just yelling at one another, why don't we
find out where we're apart, try to get together, get the bill
passed, and give the people the benefits, and not play party
politics right now.
And I think the press would follow that so closely
that probably they would get it done. That's the way I would do
it. I doubt if they'll give me the chance, but I will drop
everything and go work on it.
MS. SIMPSON: Okay. I have a question here.
Clinton, but Q I think I would welcome a response from all three
My question was originally for Governor
candidates. As you are aware, crime is rampant in our cities.
And in the Richmond area, and I'm sure it's happened elsewhere,
12-year-olds are carrying guns to school. And I'm sure when our
Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution, they did not mean for
the "Right to Bear Arms" to apply to 12-year-olds. So I'm
asking, where do you stand on gun control, and what do you plan
to do about it?
MS. SIMPSON: Governor Clinton?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I support the right to keep and
bear arms. I live in a state where over half the adults have
hunting or fishing licenses or both. But I believe we have to
have some way of checking handguns before they're sold to check
the criminal history, the mental health history and the age of
people who are buying them. Therefore, I support the Brady Bill,
which would impose a national waiting period, unless and until a
state did what only Virginia has done now, which is to automate
its records. Once you automate your records, then you don't have
to have a waiting period, but at least you can check.
I also think we should have, frankly, restrictions
on assault weapons, whose only purpose is to kill. We need to
give the police a fighting chance in our urban areas where the
gangs are building up.
The third thing I would say doesn't bear directly on
gun control, but it's very important. We need more police on the
street. There is a crime bill which would put more police on the
street, which was killed for this session by a filibuster in the
Senate, mostly by Republican senators. And I think it's a shame
it didn't pass. I think it should be made to law. But it had
the Brady Bill in it, the waiting period.
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I also believe that we should offer college
scholarships to people who will agree to work them of as police
officers. And I think as we reduce our military forces, we
should let people earn military retirement by coming out and
working as police officers.
Thirty years ago there were three police officers on
the street for every crime. Today, there are three crimes for
every police officers. In the communities, which have had real
success putting police officers near schools where kids carry
weapons -- to get the weapons out of the schools -- are on the
same blocks, you've seen crime go down. In Houston there's been
a 15-percent drop in the crime rate in the last year because of
the work the mayor did there in increasing the police force. So
I know it can work. I've seen it happen.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you. President Bush?
THE PRESIDENT: I think you put your finger on a
major problem. I talk about strengthening the American family.
And it's very hard to strengthen the family if people are scared
to walk down to the corner store and send their kid down to get a
loaf of bread. It's very hard. I have been fighting for very
strong anticrime legislation -- habeas corpus reform, so you
don't have these endless appeals; so when somebody gets
sentenced, hey, this is for real. I've been fighting for changes
in the exclusionary rule, so if an honest cop stops somebody and
makes a technical mistake, the criminal doesn't go away. I'll
probably get into a fight in this room with some, but I happen to
think that we need stronger death penalties for those that kill
police officers.
Virginia's in lead in this -- as Governor Clinton
properly said -- on this identification system for firearms. I
am not for national registration of firearms. Some of the states
that have the toughest antigun laws have the highest levels of
crime. I am for the right, as the Governor says -- I'm a
sportsman, and I don't think you ought to eliminate all kinds of
weapons.
But I was not for the bill that he was talking about
because it was not tough enough on the criminal. I'm very
pleased that the Fraternal Order of Police in Little Rock,
Arkansas, endorsed me, because I think they see I'm trying to
strengthen the anticrime legislation. We've got more money going
out for local police than any previous administration.
so we've got to get it under control. And as one
last thing -- point I'd make -- drugs. We have got to win our
national strategy against drugs, the fight against drugs. And
we're making some progress. Doing a littler better on
interdiction. We're not doing as well amongst the people that
get to be habitual drug users. The good news is, and I think
it's true in Richmond, teenage use is down of cocaine
substantially -- 60 percent in the last couple of years. So
we're making progress. But until we get that one done, we're not
going to solve the neighborhood crime problem.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Perot, there are young black males
in America dying at unprecedented --
MR. PEROT: I would just make a comment on this.
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I'm getting --
MR. PEROT: Oh, you're going to elaborate. Okay,
excuse me.
MS. SIMPSON: -- to the fact that homicide is the
leading cause of death among young black males, 15 to 24 years
old. what are you going to do to get the guns off the street?
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MR. PEROT: On any program, and this includes crime,
you'll find we have all kinds of great plans lying around that
never get enacted into law and implemented. I don't care what it
is -- competitiveness, health care, crime, you name it. The
Brady Bill, I agree that it's a timid step in the right
direction, but it won't fix it. So why pass a law that won't fix
it?
Now, what it really boils down to is can you live --
we have become so preoccupied with the rights of the criminal
that we have forgotten the rights of the innocent. And in our
country, we have evolved to a point where we've put millions of
innocent people in jail because you go to the poor neighborhoods
and they've put bars on their windows and bars on their doors,
and put themselves in jail to protect the things that they
acquired legitimately. Now, that's where we are.
We have got to become more concerned about people
who play by the rules and get the balance we require. This is
going to take, first, building a consensus in grassroots America.
Right from the bottom up, the American people have got to say,
they want it. And that point, we can pick from a variety of
plans and develop new plans, and the way you get things done is
bury yourselves in the room with one another, put together the
best program, take it to the American people, use the electronic
town hall -- the kind of thing you're doing here tonight -- build
a consensus, and then do it and then go on to the next one. But
don't just sit here slow dancing for four years doing nothing.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Perot.
We have a question up here.
Q
Please state your position on term limits. And
if you are in favor of them, how will you get them enacted?
THE PRESIDENT: Any order? I'll be glad to respond.
I strongly support term limits for members of the United States
Congress. I believe it would return the government closer to the
people, the way that Ross Perot is talking about. The
President's terms are limited to two, a total of eight years.
What's wrong with limiting the terms of members of Congress to
12? Congress has gotten kind of institutionalized. For 38
years, one party has controlled the House of Representatives.
And the result? A sorry little post office that can't do
anything right, and a bank that has more overdrafts than all of
Chase Bank and Citibank put together.
We've got to do something about it. And I think you
get a certain arrogance, bureaucratic arrogance if people stay
there too long. And so I favor -- strongly favor term limits.
And how to get them passed? send us some people that will pass
the idea. And I think you will. I think the American people
want it now. Everyplace I go, I talk about it, and I think they
want it done.
Actually, you'd have to have some amendments to the
Constitution because of the way the Constitution reads.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you. Governor Clinton?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I know they're popular, but I'm
against them. I'll tell you why. I believe, number one, it
would pose a real problem for a lot of smaller states in the
Congress who would have enough trouble now making sure their
interests are heard. Number two, I think it would increase the
influence of unelected staff members in the Congress who have too
much influence already. I want to cut the size of the
congressional staffs, but I think you're going to have too much
influence there with people who were never elected who have lots
of expertise.
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Number three, if the people really have a mind to
change, they can. You're going to have 120 to 150 new members of
Congress. NOW, let me tell you what I favor instead. I favor
strict controls on how much you can spend running for Congress,
strict limits on political action committees, requirements that
people running for Congress appear in open public debates like
we're doing now. If you did that, you could take away the
incumbent's advantage, because challengers like me would have a
chance to run against incumbents like him for House races and
Senate races, and then the voters could make up their own mind
without being subject to an unfair fight. So that's how I feel
about it, and I think if we had the right kind of campaign
reform, we'd get the changes you want.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Perot, would you like to address
term limitations?
MR. PEROT: Yes. Let me do it first on a personal
level. If the American people send me up to do this job, I
intend to be there one term. I do not intend to spend one minute
of one day thinking about reelection. It is a matter of
principle, and my situation is unique and I understand it. I
will take absolutely no compensation. I go as their servant.
Now, I have set as strong an example as I can. And
at that point, when we sit down over at Capitol Hill -- tomorrow
night I'm going to be talking about government reform. It is a
long subject; you wouldn't let me finish tonight. If you want to
hear it, you can get it tomorrow night. (Laughter. ) But the
point is -- you'll hear it tomorrow night. But we have got to
reform government.
If you put term limits in and don't reform
government, you won't get the benefit you thought. It takes
both. so we need to do the reforms and the term limits. And
after we reform it, it won't be a lifetime career opportunity.
Good people will go serve and then go back to their homes, and
not become foreign lobbyists and cash in at $30,000 a month, and
then take time off to run some president's campaign.
They're all nice people; they're just in a bad
system. I don't think there are any villains, but, boy, is the
system rotten.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you very much.
We have a question over here.
0
I'd like to ask Governor Clinton, do you
attribute the rising costs of health care to the medical
profession itself, or do you think the problem lies elsewhere?
And what specific proposals to you have to tackle this problem?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I've had more people talk to me
about their health care problems, I guess, than anything else.
All across America, people who have lost their jobs, lost their
businesses, had to give up their jobs because of sick children --
SO let me try to answer you in this way.
Let's start with the premise. We spend 30 percent
more of our income than any nation on earth on health care. And
yet, we insure fewer people, We have 35 million people without
any insurance at all, and I see them all the time. One hundred
thousand Americans a month have lost their health insurance just
in the last four years.
So if you analyze where we're out of line with other
countries you come up with the following conclusions: Number
one, we spend at least $60 billion a year on insurance,
administrative costs, bureaucracy and government regulation that
wouldn't be spent in any other nation. So we have to have, in my
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judgment, a drastic simplification of the basic health insurance
policies of this country; be very comprehensive for everybody.
Employers would cover their employees, government would cover the
unemployed.
Number two, I think you have to take on specifically
the insurance companies and require them to make some significant
change, in the way they rate people in the big community pools. I
think you have to tell the pharmaceutical companies they can't
keep raising drug prices at three times the rate of inflation. I
think you have to take on medical fraud. I think you have to
help doctors stop practicing defensive medicine. I've
recommended that our doctors be given a set of national practice
guidelines, and that if they follow those guidelines, that raises
the presumption that they didn't do anything wrong.
I think you have to have a system of primary
preventive clinics in our inner cities and our rural areas so
people can have access to health care.
But the key is to control the costs and maintain the
quality. To do that, you need a system of managed competition
where all of us are covered in big groups and we can choose our
doctors and our hospitals from a wide range, but there is an
incentive to control costs. And I think there has to be -- I
think Mr. Perot and I agree on this -- there has to be a national
commission of health care providers and health care consumers
that set ceilings to keep health costs in line with inflation
plus population growth.
Now, let me say, some people say we can't do this,
but Hawaii does it -- they cover 98 percent of their people and
their insurance premiums are much cheaper than the rest of
America. And so does Rochester, New York. They now have a plan
to cover everybody and their premiums are two-thirds the rest of
the country. This is very important, it's a big human problem
and a devastating economic problem for America. And I'm going to
send a plan to do this within the first 100 days of my
presidency. It's terribly important.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you. Sorry to cut you short,
but, President Bush, health care reform.
THE PRESIDENT: I just have to say something. I
don't want to stampede -- Ross was very articulate -- across the
country. I don't want anybody to stampede to cut the President's
salary off altogether. Barbara is sitting over here, and I --
(laughter) -- but what I have proposed -- 10 percent cut,
downsize the government, and we can get that done.
She asked the question, I think, is whether the
health care profession was to blame. No. One thing to blame is
these malpractice lawsuits. They are breaking the system. It
costs $20 billion to $25 billion a year, and I want to see those
outrageous claims capped. Doctors don't dare to deliver babies
sometimes because they're afraid that somebody's going to sue
them. People don't dare -- medical practitioners -- to help
somebody along the highway that are hurt because they're afraid
that some lawyer's going to come along and get a big lawsuit.
So you can't blame the practitioners or the health
-- and my program is this: Keep the government as far out of it
as possible, make insurance available to the poorest of the poor
through vouchers -- next range in the income bracket through tax
credits. And get on about the business of pooling insurance. A
great, big company can buy -- Ross has got a good size company,
been very successful. He can buy insurance cheaper than mom and
pop store on the corner. But if those mom and pop stores all get
together and pool, they, too, can bring the cost of insurance
down.
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So I want to keep the quality of health care -- that
means keep government out of it. I don't like this idea of these
boards. It all sounds to me like you're going to have some
government setting price. I want competition, and I want to pool
the insurance and take care of it that way.
Here's the other point. I think medical care should
go with the person. If you leave a business, I think your
insurance should go with you to some other business. You
shouldn't be worrying if you get a new job as to whether that's
going to -- and part of our plan is to make it what they call
portable -- big word, but that means if you're working for the
Jones Company and you go to the Smith Company, your insurance
goes with you. I think it's a good program. I'm really excited
about getting it done, too.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Perot?
MR. PEROT: We have the most expensive health care
system in the world. Twelve percent of our gross national
product goes to health care. Our industrial competitors, who are
beating us in competition, spend less and have better health
care. Japan spends a little over six percent of its gross
national product; Germany spends eight percent.
It's fascinating. You bought a front-row, box seat,
and you're not happy with your health care. And you're saying
tonight we've got bad health care but very expensive health care.
Folks, here's why. Go home and look in the mirror. You own this
country, but you have no voice in it the way it's organized now.
And if you want to have a high-risk experience comparable to
bungee jumping -- (laughter) -- go into Congress sometime when
they're working on this kind of legislation, when the lobbyists
are running up and down the halls. Wear your safety-toe shoes
when you go. (Laughter.) And as a private citizen, believe me,
you are looked on as a major nuisance. The facts are, you now
have a government that comes at you; you're supposed to have a
government that comes from you.
Now, there are all kinds of good ideas, brilliant
ideas, terrific ideas on health care. None of them every get
implemented because -- let me give you an example -- a senator
runs every six years; he's got to raise 20,000 bucks a week to
have enough money to run. Who's he going to listen to: us or the
folks running up and down the aisle with money, the lobbyists,
the PAC money? He listens to them. Who do they represent?
Health care industry. Not us.
Now, you've got to have a government that comes from
you again. You've got to reassert your ownership in this
country. And you've got to completely reform our government.
And at that point, they'll just be like apples falling out of a
tree. The programs will be good because the elected officials
will be listening to -- I said the other night I was all ears and
I would listen to any good idea. I think we ought to do plastic
surgery on a lot of these guys so that they're all ears, too, and
listen to you. Then you get what you want; and shouldn't you?
You paid for it. Why shouldn't you get what you want as opposed
to what some lobbyist cuts a deal, writes the little piece in the
law, and it goes through. That's the way the game's played now.
Until you change it, you're going to be unhappy.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you.
Governor Clinton, you wanted one brief point.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: One brief point. We have
elections so people can make decisions about this. The point I
want to make to you is, a bipartisan commission reviewed my plan
and the Bush plan and concluded -- there were as many Republicans
an Democratic health care experts on it -- they concluded that my
plan would cover everybody and his would leave 27 million behind
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by the year 2000; and that my plan in the next 12 years would
save $2.2 trillion in public and private money to reinvest in
this economy. And the average family would save $1,200 a year
under the plan that I offered, without any erosion in the quality
of health care. so I ask you to look at that.
And you have to vote for somebody with a plan.
That's what you have elections for. If people say, well, he got
elected to do this, and then the Congress says, okay, I'm going
to do it. That's what the election was about.
MS. SIMPSON: Brief, Governor Clinton. Thank you.
We have a question right here.
Q Yes, how has the national debt personally
affected each of your lives? And if it hasn't, how can you
honestly find a cure for the economic problems of the common
people if you have no experience in what's ailing them?
MR. PEROT: May I answer it?
MS. SIMPSON: Well, Mr. Perot, yes, of course.
MR. PEROT: Who do you want to start with?
Q My question is for each of you, so --
MR. PEROT: Yes, it caused me to disrupt my private
life and my business to get involved in this activity. That's
how much I care about it. And believe me, if you knew my family
and if you knew the private life I have, you would agree in a
minute that that's a whole lot more fun than getting involved in
politics.
I have lived the American Dream. I came from a very
modest background. Nobody's been luckier than I've been. All
the way across the spectrum, and the greatest riches of all are
my wife and children. It's true of any family. But I want all
the children -- I want these young people up here to be able to
start with nothing but an idea like I did and build a business.
But they've got to have a strong. basic economy. And if you're
in debt, it's like having a ball and chain around you.
I just figure as lucky as I've been. I owe it to
them. And I owe it to the future generations. And on a very
personal basis, I owe it to my children and grandchildren.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Perot. Mr. President.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think the national debt
affects everybody. Obviously, it has a lot to do with interest
rates --
MS. SIMPSON: She's saying you personally.
Q
You, on a personal basis, how has it affected
you?
MS. SIMPSON: Has it affected you personally?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I'm sure it has. I love my
grandchildren. I want to think that --
Q
How?
THE PRESIDENT: I want to think that they're going
to be able to afford an education. I think that's an important
part of being a parent. If the question maybe I get it wrong.
Are you suggesting that if somebody has means that the national
debt doesn't affect them?
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Q
What I'm saying --
THE PRESIDENT: I'm not sure I get it. Help me with
the question and I'll try to answer it.
Я
Well, I've had friends that have been laid off
in jobs --
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
Q
I know people who cannot afford to pay the
mortgage on their homes, their car payment. I have personal
problems with the national debt. But how has it affected you?
And if you have no experience in it, how can you help us if you
don't know what we're feeling?
MS. SIMPSON: I think she means more the recession,
the economic problems today the country faces rather than --
THE PRESIDENT: Well, listen, you ought to be in the
White House for a day and hear what I hear and see what I see and
read the mail I read and touch the people that I touch from time
to time.
I was in the Lomax AME Church. It's a black church
just outside of Washington, DC. And I read in the bulletin about
teenage pregnancies, about the difficulty that families are
having to make ends meet. I talked to parents. I mean, you've
got to care. Everybody cares if people aren't doing well. But I
don't think it's fair to say you haven't had cancer, therefore
you don't know what it's like. I don't think it's fair to say --
whatever it is, if you haven't been hit by it personally. But
everybody's affected by the debt. Because of the tremendous
interest that goes into paying on that debt, everything's more
expensive. Everything comes out of your pocket and my pocket.
So it's that.
But I think in terms of the recession, of course,
you feel it when you're President of the United States. That's
why I'm trying to do something about it by stimulating the
export, investing more, better education system.
Thank you. I'm glad you clarified it.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Tell me how it's affected you
again? You know people who have lost their jobs and lost their
homes?
&
Yes.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Well, I've been Governor of a
small state for 12 years. I'll tell you how it's affected me.
Every year, Congress and the President sign laws that make us do
more things, it gives us less money to do it with. I see people
in my state, middle class people -- their taxes have gone up in
Washington and their services have gone down, while the wealthy
have gotten tax cuts.
I have seen what's happened in this last four years
when -- in my state, when people lose their jobs there's a good
chance I'll know them by their names. When a factory closes, I
know the people who ran it. when the businesses go bankrupt, I
know them. And I've been out here for 13 months, meeting in
meetings just like this ever since October with people like you
all over America. People that have lost their jobs, lost their
livelihood, lost their health insurance.
What I want you to understand is. the national debt
is not the only cause of that. It is because America has not
invested in its people. It is because we have not grown. It is
because we've had 12 years of trickle-down economics. We've gone
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from first to 12th in the world in wages. We've had four years
where we've produced no private sector jobs.
Most people are working harder for less money than
they were making 10 years ago. It is because we are in the grip
of a failed economic theory. And this decision you're about to
make better be about what kind of economic theory you want, not
just people saying I want to go fix it, but what are we going to
do.
What I think we have to do is invest in American
jobs, in American education, control American health care costs,
and bring the American people together again.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you, Governor Clinton. We are a
little more than halfway through this program, and I'm glad that
we're getting the diversity of questions that we are, and I don't
want to forget these folks on the wings over here, so let's go
over here.
Do you have a question?
Q Yes, I do. My name is Ben Smith. I work in
the financial field, counseling retirees. And I'm personally
concerned about three major areas. One is the Social Security
Administration or trust fund is projected to be insolvent by the
year 2036. And we've funded the trust fund with IOUS in the form
of Treasury bonds. The pension guarantee fund which backs up our
private retirement plans for retirees is projected to be bankrupt
by the year 2026, not to mention the cutbacks by private
companies. And Medicare is projected to be bankrupt maybe as
soon as 1997.
And I would like from each of you a specific
response as to what you intend to do for retirees relative to
these issues -- not generalities, but specifics -- because I
think they're very disturbing issues.
MS. SIMPSON: President Bush, may we start with you?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the Social Security -- you're
an expert and I could, I'm sure, learn from you the details of
the pension guarantee fund and the Social Security fund. The
Social Security system was fixed about five years, and I think
it's projected out to be sound beyond that. so at least we have
time to work with it.
But on all of these things, a sound economy is the
only way to get it going. Growth in the economy is going to add
to these -- add to the overall prosperity and wealth. I can't
give you a specific answer on pension guarantee fund. All I know
is that we have firm government credit to guarantee the pensions.
And that is very important.
But the full faith in credit of the United States,
in spite of our difficulties, is still pretty good. It's still
the most respected credit. So I would simply say, as these dates
get close you're going to have to reorganize and refix as we did
with the Social Security fund. And I think that's the only
answer. But the more immediate answer is to do what this lady
was suggesting we do. and that is to get this deficit down and
get on without adding to the woes, and then restructure.
One thing I've called for that has been stymied and
I'll keep on working for it is a whole financial reform
legislation. It is absolutely essential in terms of bringing our
banking system and credit system into the new age instead of
having it living back in the dark ages. And it's a big fight.
And I don't want to give my friend, Ross, another shot at me
here. but I am fighting with the Congress to get this through.
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And you can't just go up and say I'm going to fix
it, you've got some pretty strong-willed guys up there that argue
with you. But that's what the election's about; I agree with the
Governor. That's what the election is about. And sound fiscal
policy is the best answer, I think, to all the three problems you
mentioned.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you. Mr. Perot?
MR. PEROT: Just on a broad issue here. When you're
trying to solve a problem, you get the best plans. You have a
raging debate about those plans. Then out of that debate, with
leadership comes consensus. Then --and if the plans are huge and
complex, like health care, I would urge you to implement pilot
programs. Like the old carpenter says, measure twice, cut once.
Let's make sure this thing's as good as we all think it is at the
end of the meeting.
Then, finally, our government passes laws and
freezes the plan in concrete. Anybody that's ever built a
successful business will tell you, you optimize, optimize,
optimize after you put something into effect. The reason
Medicare and Medicaid are a mess is we froze them. Everybody
knows how to fix them. There are people all over the federal
government if they could just touch it with a screwdriver could
fix it.
Now, back over here. see, we've got a s4-trillion
debt, and only in America would you have $2.8 trillion of it, or
70 percent of it financed five years or less. Now, that's
another thing for you to think about when you go home tonight.
You don't finance long-term debt with short-term money. Why did
our government do it? To get the interest rates down. A one
percent increase in interest rates in that $2.8 trillion is $28
billion a year.
Now, when you look at what Germany pays for money
and what we don't pay for money, you realize there's quite a
spread, right? And you realize this is a temporary thing and
there's going to be another sucking sound that runs our deficit
through the roof.
You know -- and everybody's ducking it so I'm going
to say it -- that we are not letting that surplus stay in the
bank. We are not investing that surplus like a pension fund. We
are spending that surplus to make the deficit look smaller to you
than it really is, Now, that puts you in jail in corporate
America if you kept books that way: but in government it's just
kind of the way things are. That's because it comes at you, not
from you.
Now, then -- that money needs to be -- they don't
even pay interest on it, they just write a note for the interest.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Perot, can you wrap it up?
MR. PEROT: sure. But the point -- see, do you want
to fix the problem or sound-bite it? I understand the importance
of time, but see, here's how we get to this mess we're in. This
is just one of 1,000.
MS. SIMPSON: But we've got to be fair.
MR. PEROT: Now, then, to nail it, there's one way.
out: A growing, expanding job base -- a growing, expanding job
base to generate the funds and the tax revenues to pay off the
mess and rebuild America. We've got to double hit. If we're $4
trillion down, we should have everything perfect, but we don't.
We've got to pay it off and build money to renew it -- spend
money to renew it -- and that's going to take a growing,
expanding job base. That is priority one in this country. Put
everybody that's breathing to work. And I'd love to be out of
- 21 -
workers and have to import them, like some of our international
competitors.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Perot, I'm sorry, I'm going to --
MR. PEROT: Sorry.
MS. SIMPSON: And I don't want to sound-bite you,
but we are trying to be fair to everyone.
MR. PEROT: No, absolutely. I apologize.
MS. SIMPSON: All right, Governor Clinton.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I think I remember the question.
(Laughter.) Let me say first of all -- I want to answer your
specific question, but first of all, we all agree that there
should be a growing economy. What you have to decide is who's
got the best economic plan. And we all have ideas out there, and
Mr. Bush has a record. I don't want you to read my lips and I
sure don't want you to read his. (Laughter.) I do hope you will
read our plans.
Now, specifically --
THE PRESIDENT: -- first rule?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: One, on Medicare, it is not true
that everyone knows how to fix it; there are different ideas.
The Bush plan, the Perot plan, the Clinton -- we have different
ideas. I am convinced, having studied health care for a year,
hard, and talking to hundreds and hundreds of people all across
America, that you cannot control the costs of Medicare until you
control the cost of private health care and public health care
with managed competition, ceiling on cost, and radical
reorganization of the insurance markets -- you've got to do that.
We've got to get those costs down.
Number two. with regard to Social Security -- that
program -- a lot of you may not know this -- it produces a $70-
billion surplus a year. Social Security is in surplus $70
billion. Six increases in the payroll tax -- that means people
with incomes of $51,000 a year or less pay a disproportionately
high share of the federal tax burden, which is why I want some
middle class tax relief.
What do we have to do? By the time the century
turns, we have got to have our deficit under control, we have to
work out of so that surplus is working up, so when the baby
boomers like me retire, we're okay.
Number three, on the pension funds, I don't know as
much about it, but I will say this: What I will do is to bring
in the pension experts of the country, take a look at it and
strengthen the pension requirements further. Because it's not
just enough to have the quarantee. We had a guarantee on the
S&Ls, right? We had a guarantee, and what happened? You picked
up a $500-billion bill because of the dumb way the federal
government deregulated it.
So I think we are going to have to change and
strengthen the pension requirements on private retirement plans.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you. I think we have a question
have OD international affairs, hopefully.
Q We've come to a position where we're in the new
world order. And I'd like to know what the candidates feel our
position is in this new world order and what are responsibilities
are as a superpower.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. President?
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THE PRESIDENT: We have come to that position.
Since I became President, 43, 44 countries have gone democratic.
No longer totatalitarian, no longer living under dictatorship or
communist rule. This is exciting. This is -- new world order to
me means freedom and democracy.
I think we will have a continuing responsibility as
the only remaining superpower to say involved. If we pull back
in some isolation and say we don't have to do our share, or more
than our share, anymore, I believe you going to just ask for
conflagration that we'll get involved in in the future. NATO,
for example, has kept the peace for many, many years. And I want
to see us keep fully staffed in NATO so we'll continue to
guarantee the peace in Europe.
But the exciting thing is the fear of nuclear war is
down. And you hear all the bad stuff that's happened on my watch
-- I hope people will recognize that this is something pretty
good for mankind. I hope they'll think it's good that democracy
and freedom is on the move. And we're going to stay engaged, as
long as I am President, working to improve things.
You know, it's so easy now to say, hey, cut out
foreign aid, we've got a problem at home. I think the United
States has to still be -- have the Statue of Liberty as a symbol
of caring for others. We're right this very minute, we're
sending supplies in to help these little starving kids in
Somalia. We're trying to get -- it's the United States that's
taken the lead in humanitarian aid into Bosnia. We're doing this
all around the world.
And, yes, we've got problems at home. And I think
I've got a good plan to help fix those problems at home. But
because of our leadership, because we didn't listen to the
freeze, the nuclear freeze group -- do you remember: freeze it,
back in about in the late '70s. Freeze, don't touch it. We're
going to lock it in now, or else we'll have war. President
Reagan said, no, peace through strength. It worked. The Soviet
Union is no more. And now we're working to help them become
totally democratic through the Freedom Support Act that I led on.
A great Democratic Ambassador, Bob Strauss over there; Jim Baker;
all of us got this thing passed -- through cooperation, ROSS. It
worked with cooperation. And you're for that, I'm sure --
helping Russia become democratic.
So the new world order to me means freedom and
democracy, keep engaged, do not pull back into isolation. And we
are the United States. And we have a responsibility to lead and
to guarantee the security. If it hadn't been for us, Saddam
Hussein would be sitting on top of three-fifths of the oil supply
of the world, and he'd have nuclear weapons. And only the United
States could do this.
Excuse me, Carole.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you. Mr. Perot.
MR. PEROT: Well, it's cost-effective to help Russia
succeed in its revolution. It's pennies on the dollar compared
to going back to the Cold War. Russia's still very unstable.
They could go back to square one and worse. There's still -- all
the nuclear weapons are not dismantled. I'm particularly
concerned about the intercontinental weapons, the ones that can
hit us. We've got. agreements, but they're still there.
With all this instability and breaking into
republics and all the Middle Eastern countries going over there
and shopping for weapons, we've got our work cut out for us. So
we need to stay right on top of that and constructively help them
move toward democracy and capitalism.
- 23 -
We have to have money to do that. We have to have
our people at work. See, for 45 years, we were preoccupied with
the Red Army. I suggest now that our number-one preoccupation is
red ink in our country. And we've got to put our people back to
work so that we can afford to do these things we want to do in
Russia. We cannot be the policeman for the world any longer.
We spend $300 billion a year defending the world.
Germany and Japan spend around $30 billion apiece. It's neat --
if I can get you to defend me, and I can spend all my money
building industry, that's a homerun for me. Coming out of World
War II, it made sense. Now the other superpowers need to do
their part.
I'll close on this point: You can't be a superpower
unless you're an economic superpower. If we're not an economic
superpower, we are a used-to-be and we will not longer force for
good throughout the world. And if nothing else gets you excited
about rebuilding our industrial base, maybe that will, because
job one is to put our people back to work.
MS. SIMPSON: Governor Clinton, the President
mentioned Saddam Hussein. Your vice president and you have had
some words about the President and Saddam Hussein. would you
care to comment?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I'd rather answer her question
first, and than I'll be glad to. Because the question you ask is
important. The end of the Cold War brings an incredible
opportunity for change -- the winds of freedom blowing around the
world, Russia demilitarizing. And it also requires us to
maintain some continuity, some bipartisan American commitment to
certain principles.
And I would just say there are three things that I
would like to say. Number one, we do have to maintain the
world's strongest defense. We may differ about what the elements
of that are. I think the defense needs to be with fewer people
and permanent armed services, but with greater mobility on the
land, in the air, and on the sea, with a real dedication to
continuing development of high technology weaponry and well-
trained people. I think we're going to have to work to stop the
proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. We've got to keep
going until all those nuclear weapons in Russia are gone and the
other republics.
Number two, if you don't rebuild the economic
strength of this country at home. we won't be a superpower. We
can't have any more instances like what happened when Mr. Bush
went to Japan and the Japan Prime Minister said he felt sympathy
for our country. We have to be the strongest economic power in
the world. That's what got me into this race, so we could
rebuild the American economy.
And number three, we need to be a force for freedom
and democracy. And we need to use our unique position to support
freedom -- or in China or in any other place, wherever the seeds
of freedom are sprouting. We can't impose it, but we need to
nourish it. And that's the kind of thing that I would do as
President -- follow those three commitments into the future.
MS. SIMPSON: Okay, we have a question up there.
Ox
We've talked a lot tonight about creating jobs.
But we have an awful lot of high school graduates who don't know
how to read a ruler, who cannot fill out an application for a
job. How can we create high-paying jobs with the education
system we have? And what would you do to change it?
MS. SIMPSON: Who would like to begin? The
Education President?
- 24 -
THE PRESIDENT: I'd be delighted to, because you
can't do it the old way. You can't do it with the school
bureaucracy controling everything. And that's why we have a new
program that I hope people have heard about. It's being worked
now in 1,700 communities -- I bypassed Congress on this one, Ross
-- 1,700 communities across the country. It's called America
2000. And it literally says to the communities, reinvent the
schools. Not just the bricks and mortor, but the curriculum and
everything else. Think anew. We have a concept called the New
American School Corporation, where we're doing exactly that.
And so I believe that we've got to get the power in
the hands of the teachers, not the teachers union -- what's
happening up there? (Laughter.) And so our America 2000 program
also says this: It says let's give parents the choice of a
public, private or public school -- public, private or religious
school. And it works. It works in Milwaukee. A Democratic
woman up there taking the lead in this, the mayor up there on the
program. And the schools that are not chosen are improved.
Competition does that.
So we've got to innovate through school choice.
We've got to innovate through this America 2000 program. But she
is absolutely right. The programs that we've been trying where
you control everything and mandate it from Washington don't work.
The governors -- and I believe Governor Clinton was
in on this, but I don't want to invoke him here -- but they come
to me and they say, please get the Congress to stop passing so
many mandates telling us how to control things. We know better
how to do it in California or Texas or wherever it is. So this
is what our program is all about. And I believe -- you're right
on to something -- that if we don't change the education, we're
not going to be able to compete.
Federal funding for education is up substantially.
Pell Grants are up. But it isn't going to get the job done if we
don't change K-12.
MS. SIMPSON: Governor Clinton?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: First of all, let me say that
I've spent more of my time in life on this in the last 12 years
than any other issue. Seventy percent of my state's money goes
to public schools. And I was really honored when Time Magazine
said that our schools have shown more improvement than any other
state in the country except one other -- they named two states
showing real strides forward in the '80s. So I care a lot about
this. And I've spent countless hours in schools.
But let me start with what you've said. I agree
with some of what Mr. Bush said, but it's nowhere near enough.
We live in a world where what you earn depends on what you can
learn, where the average 18-year-old will change jobs eight times
in a lifetime, and where none of us can promise any of you that
what you now do for a living is absolutely safe from now on.
Nobody running can promise that. There's too much change in the
world.
So what should we do? I'm going to reel some things
off real quick, because you said you wanted specifics. Number
one, under my program we would provide matching funds to states
to teach everybody with a job to read in the next five years and
give everybody with a job 3 chance to get a high school diploma.
In big places, on the job.
Number two, we would provide two-year apprenticeship
programs to high school graduates who don't go to college. And
community colleges are on the job. Number three. we'd open the
doors to college education to high school graudates without
regard to income. They could borrow the money and pay it back as
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a percentage of their income over the couple of years of service
to our nation here at home.
Number four, we would fully fund the Head Start
program to get little kids off to a good start. And five, I
would have an aggressive program of school reform. More choices
in the -- I favor public schools or these new charter schools --
we can talk about that if you want. I don't think we should
spend tax money on private schools. But I favor public school
choice. And I favor radical decentralization in giving more
power to better-trained principals and teachers with parent
councils to control their schools. Those things would
revolutionize American education and take us to the top
economically.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you, Governor Clinton. what the
question is -- what is going to cost?
Я What is it going to cost?
MS. SIMPSON: what is it going to cost?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: In six years -- I budget all this
in my budget. In six years, the college program would cost $8
billion over an above what -- the present student loan program
costs four. You pay S3 billion for busted loans because we don't
have an automatic recovery system and a billion dollars in bank
fees. so the net cost of the S8 billion six years from now and a
trillion-plus budget -- not very much.
The other stuff -- all the other stuff I mentioned
costs much less than that. The Head Start program, full funding,
would cost about S5 billion more. And it's all covered in my
budget from the plans that I've laid out, from raising taxes on
families with incomes above $200,000, and asking foreign
corporations to pay the same tax that American corporations do on
the same income; from $140 billion in budget cuts, including what
I think are very prudent cuts in the defense budget. It's all
covered in the plan.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Perot, you on education, please.
MR. PEROT: Yes. I've got scars to show from being
around education reform. And the first words you need to say in
every city and state and just draw a line in the sand -- public
schools exist for the benefit of the children -- you're going to
see a lot of people fall over it. Because any time you're
spending $199 billion a year, somebody's getting it, and the
children get lost in the process. so that's step one.
Keep in mind in 1960 when our schools were the envy
of the world, we were spending S16 billion on them. Now we spend
more than any other nation in the world -- $199 billion a year
and rank at the bottom of the industrialized world in terms of
educational achievement.
One more time, you've brought a front-row box seat
and got a third-rate performance. This is a government that's
not serving you.
BY and large. it should be local. The more local,
the better. Interesting phenomenon small towns have good
schools. big cities have terrible schools. The best people in a
small town will serve on the school board. You get into big
cities. it's political patronage. stepping stones. You get the
job, give your relatives the janitor's job at $57,000 a year,
more than the teachers make. And with luck, they clean the
cafeteria once a week. (Laughter.)
Now, you're paying for that. Those schools belong
to you, And we put up with that. And as long as you put up with
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that, that's what you're going to get. And these folks are just
dividing up $199 billion and the children get lost.
If I could wish for one thing for great public
schools, it would be a strong family unit in every home. Nothing
will ever replace that. You say, well, gee, what are you going
to do about that? Well, the White House is a bully pulpit, and I
think we ought to be pounding on the table every day. There's
nothing -- the most efficient unit of government will ever know
is a strong, loving family unit.
Next thing. You need small schools, not big
schools. A little school, everybody's somebody. Individualism
is very important. These big factories, everybody told me they
were cost-effective. I did a study on it. They're cost-
ineffective. Five thousand students -- why is a high school that
big? One reason. Sooner or later, you get 11 more boys that can
run like the devil that weigh 250 pounds and they might win
district. Now, that has nothing to do with learning.
secondly, across Texas, typically half the school
day was non-academic pursuits. In one place, it was 35 percent.
In Texas, you could have unlimited absences to go to livestock
shows. Found a boy -- excuse me, but this gives the flavor -- a
boy in Houston kept a chicken in the bathtub in downtown Houston.
Missed 65 days going to livestock shows. Finally had to come
back to school, the chicken lost his feathers. That's the only
way we got him back. (Laughter.)
Now, that's your tax money being wasted.
Now, neighborhood schools. It is terrible to bus
tiny little children across town. And it is particularly
terrible to take poor, tiny little children and wait until the
first grade and bus them across town to Mars where the children
know their numbers, know their letters, have had every advantage;
the end of the first day, that little child wants out.
I close on this: You've got. to have world-class
teachers, world-class books. If you ever got close to how
textbooks were selected, you wouldn't want to go back the second
day. I don't have time to tell you the stories. (Laughter.)
MS. SIMPSON: No, you don't. (Laughter.)
MR. PEROT: Finally. If we don't fix this -- you're
right -- we can't have the industries of tomorrow unless we have
the best educated work force. And here, you've got for the
disadvantaged children, you've got to have early childhood
development. The cheapest money you'll ever spend. The first
contact should be with the mother when she's pregnant. That
little child needs to be loved and hugged and nurtured and made
to feel special, like your children were. They learn to think
well or poorly of themselves in the first 18 months.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Perot.
MR. PEROT: And within the first few years, they
either learn how to learn or don't learn how to learn. And if
they don't, they wind up in prison and it costs more to keep them
in prison than it does to send them to Harvard. I rest my case.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you.
President Bush, you wanted to add something.
THE PRESIDENT: I just had a word of clarification
because of something Governor Clinton said. My school choice
program, G.I. Bill for Kids, does not take public money and give
it to private schools. It does what the G.I. Bill itself did
when I came out of World war II. It takes public money and gives
It to families or individuals to choose the school they want.
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And where it's been done, those schools like in Rochester,
those schools that weren't chosen find that they then compete and
do better. So I think it's worth a shot.
We've got a pilot program, it ought to be tried --
school choice -- public, private or religious, not to the
schools, but to -- 46 percent of the teachers in Chicago, public
schoolteachers send their kids to private school.
NOW, I think we ought to try to help families and
see if it will do what I think, make all schools better.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I just want to mention if I could
--
MS. SIMPSON: Very briefly.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Very briefly. Involving the
parents in the preschool education of their kids, even if they're
poor and uneducated, can make a huge difference. We have a big
program in my state that teaches mothers or fathers to teach
their kids to get ready for school -- it's the most successful
thing we've ever done.
Just a fact clarification real quickly. We do not
spend a higher percentage of our income on public education than
every other country. There are nine countries that spend more
than we do on public education. We spend more on education cause
we spend so much more on colleges.
But if you look at public education alone and you
take into account that we have more racial diversity and poverty,
it makes a big difference. There are great public schools were
there are public school choice, accountability and brilliant
principals. I'll just mention one -- the Beasley Academic Center
in Chicago -- I commend it to anybody. It's as good as any
private school in the country.
MS. SIMPSON: We have very little time left and it
occurs to me that we have talked all this time and there has not
been one question about some of the racial tensions and ethnic
tensions in America. Is there anyone in this audience that would
like to pose a question to the candidates on this?
Q What I'd like to know, and this is to any of
the three of you, is aside from the recent accomplishments of
your party aside from those accomplishments in racial
representation and without citing any of your current
appointments or successful elections, when do you estimate your
party will both nominate and elect an Afro-American and female
ticket to the Presidency of the United States?
MS. SIMPSON: Governor Clinton, why don't you
answer that first.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Well, I don't have any idea, but
I hope it will happen sometime in my lifetime.
% I do, too.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I believe that this country is
elected more and more African Americans and Latinos and Asian
Americans who are representing districts that are themselves not
necessarily of the majority of their race. The American people
are beginning to vote across racial lines. And I hope it will
happen more and more.
More and more women are being elected, Look at all
these women Senate candidates we have here. And -- you know,
according to my mother and my wife and my daughter, this world
would be a lot better place if women were running it most of the
time.
- 28 -
I do think there are special experiences and
judgments and backgrounds and understandings that women bring to
this process, by the way. This lady said here, how have you been
affected by the economy? I mean, women know what it's like to be
paid an unequal amount to equal work; they know what's it like
not to have flexible working hours; they know what it's like not
to have family leave or child care. so I think it would be a
good thing for America if it happened and I think it will happen
in my lifetime.
MS. SIMPSON: Okay, I'm sorry we have just a little
bit time left, let's try to get responses from each of them.
President Bush or Mr. Perot?
THE PRESIDENT: I think if Barbara Bush were running
this year she'd be elected. (Laughter.) But it's too late.
You don't want us to mention appointees but when you
see the quality of people in our administration, see how Colin
Powell performed -- I say administration, he's in the military --
9
I said when's your guess?
THE PRESIDENT: You weren't impressed with the fact
that he performed --
Q Excuse me, I'm extremely impressed with that --
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, but wouldn't that suggest to
the American people then here's a quality person, if he decided
that he could automatically --
Q Sure. I just wanted to know --
THE PRESIDENT: -- get the nomination of either
party? Huh?
Q
I'm totally impressed with that. I just wanted
to know is when is your guess of when.
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, I see -- you mean time?
Q Yeah.
THE PRESIDENT: I don't know. Starting after four
years. (Laughter.) No, I think you'll see --
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Perot?
THE PRESIDENT: I think you'll see more minority
candidates and women candidates coming forward.
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you.
THE PRESIDENT: This is supposed to be the women's
-- year of the women in the Senate. Let's see how they do. I
hope a lot them win.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Perot. I don't want to cut you up
any more but we only have a minute left.
MR. PEROT: I have a fearless forecast. A message
just won't do it -- Colin Powell will be on somebody's ticket
four years from now. Right? Right? You wanted -- that's it.
Four years.
MS. SIMPSON: How about a women?
MR. PEROT: Now, if he won't be -- General Waller
would be a -- you say, why do you keep picking military people?
- 29 -
These are people that I just happened to know and have a high
regard for. I'm sure there are hundreds of others.
THE PRESIDENT: How about Dr. Lou Sullivan?
MR. PEROT: Absolutely.
THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, good man.
MR. PEROT: Absolutely.
MS. SIMPSON: What about a women?
MR. PEROT: Oh, oh.
THE PRESIDENT: My candidate's right there.
MR. PEROT: I can think of many.
MS. SIMPSON: Many?
MR. PEROT: Absolutely.
MS. SIMPSON: When?
MR. PEROT: How about Sandra Day 0' Conner as an
example? Dr. Bernadine Healy.
MS. SIMPSON: Good.
MR. PEROT: National Institute of Health. All
right, I'll yield the floor. Name some more.
THE PRESIDENT: Good Republicans. (Laughter.)
MS. SIMPSON: Thank you, I want to apologize to our
audience because there were 209 people here and there were 209
questions. We only got a fraction of them and I'm sorry to those
of you that didn't get to ask your questions, but we must move to
the conclusion of the program.
It is time now for the two minute closing statements
and by prior agreement President Bush will go first.
THE PRESIDENT: May I ask for an exception because
we owe Carole Simpson a -- anybody can stand inbetween these
three characters here and get the job done . we owe her a round
of applause. (Applause.) Just don't take it out of my time.
MS. SIMPSON: That's right.
THE PRESIDENT: I feel strongly about it but I don't
want it to come out of my time. I feel strongly about it, but I
don't want it to come out of my time.
MS. SIMPSON: That's right. (Laughter.)
THE PRESIDENT: No, but let me just say to the
American people in two and a half weeks, we're going to choose
who should sit in this Oval Office; who to lead the economic
recovery; who to be the leader of the free world: who to get the
deficit down. Three ways to do that. One is to raise taxes, one
is to reduce spending, controling that mandatory spending.
Another one is to invest and save and to stimulate growth.
I do not want to raise taxes; I differ with the two
here on that. I'm just not going to do that. I do believe that
we need to control mandatory spending. I think we need to invest
and save more. I believe that we need to educate better and
retrain better. I believe that we need to export more, so I'll
keep working for export agreements where we can sell more abroad.
- 31 -
MS. SIMPSON: And, finally, last but not least,
Governor Clinton.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Thank you, Carol, and thank you,
ladies and gentlemen. Since I suggested this format, I hope it's
been good for all of you. I've really tried to be faithful to
your request that we answer the questions specifically and
pointedly. I thought I owed that to you, and I respect you for
being here, and for the impact you've had on making this a more
positive experience.
These problems are not easy. They're not going to
be solved overnight. But I want you to think about just two or
three things. First of all, the people of my state have let me
be their Governor for 12 years because I made commitments to two
things: More jobs and better schools.
our schools are now better. Our children get off to
a better start -- from preschools programs and smaller classes in
the early grades. And we have one of the most aggressive adult
education programs in the country; we talked about that.
This year, my state ranks first in the country in
job growth, fourth in manufacturing job growth, fourth in income
growth, fourth in the decline of poverty. I'm proud of that. It
happened because I could work with people -- Republicans and
Democrats. That's why we've had 24 retired generals and
admirals, hundreds of businesspeople, many of them Republican,
support this campaign.
You have to decide whether you want to change or
not. We do not need four more years of an economic theory that
doesn't work. We've had 12 years of trickle-down economics.
It's time to put the American people first to invest and grow
this economy. I'm the only person here who's every balanced a
government budget. And I've presented 12 of them and cut
spending repeatedly. But you cannot just get there by balancing
the budget. We've got to grow the economy but putting people
first -- real people like you.
I got into this race because I did not want my child
to grow up to be part of the first generation of Americans to do
worse than their parents. We're better than that. We can do
better than that. I want to make America as great as it can be.
And I ask for your help in doing it.
Thank you very much.
MS. SIMPSON: Thenk ver. Governor Clinton.
Ladies 3nd gentlemen. this concludes the debate,
sponsored by the Bipartisan Commission on Presidential Debates.
I'd like to thank our audience of 209 uncommitted voters who may
leave this evening maybe being committed. And hopefully, they'll
go to the polls like everyone else on November 3rd and vote.
We invite you to join us on the third and final
presidential debate next Monday, October 19th, from the campus of
Michigan State University in East Lansing, Michigan.
I'm Carole Simpson. Good night. (Applause.)
END
10:30 P.M. EDT
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(Lansing, Michigan)
October 19, 1992
For Immediate Release
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT,
GOVERNOR BILL CLINTON AND MR. ROSS PEROT
IN THE THIRD PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE OF 1992
Wharton Center for the Performing Arts
Michigan state University
Lansing, Michigan
7:00 P.M. EDT
MR. LEHRER: Good evening. Welcome to this third
and final debate among the three major candidates for President
of the United States -- Governor Bill Clinton, the Democratic
nominee; President George Bush, the Republican nominee --
(applause) -- and independent candidate, ROSS Perot. (Applause.)
I am Jim Lehrer, of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on
PBS. I will be the moderator for this debate, which is being
sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. It will be
90 minutes long. It is happening before an audience on the
campus of Michigan state University in East Lansing.
The format was conceived by and agreed to by
representatives of the Bush and Clinton campaigns. But then it
is somewhat different than those used in the earlier debates. I
will ask questions for the first half under rules that permit
follow-ups. A panel of three other journalists will ask
questions in the second half under rules that do not. As always,
each candidate will have two minutes -- up to two minutes to make
a closing statement. The order of those, as well as that for the
formal questioning were all determined by a drawing.
Gentlemen, again welcome and again good evening.
It seems from what some of those voters said at your
Richmond debate and from polling and other data that each of you,
fairly or not, faces serious voter concerns about the underlying
credibility and believability of what each of you says you would
do as President in the next four years.
Governor Clinton, in accordance with the draw, those
concerns about you are first. You are promising to create jobs,
reduce the deficit, reform the health care system, rebuild the
infrastructure, guarantee college education for everyone who is
qualified, among many other things -- all with financial pain
only for the very rich. some people are having trouble,
apparently, believing that is possible. should they have that
concern?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: No. There are many people who
believe that the only way we can get this country turned around
is to tax the middle class more and punish them more. But the
truth is that middle class Americans are basically the giring the
of Americans who have been taxed more in the 1980 and
The
last 12 years, even though their
Middle class people will have their fair share of
changing to do and many challenges to face, including the
challenge of becoming constantly reeducated. But my plan is a
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wealthiest departure from tax-and-spend economics because you can't and
departure Americans and getting out of the way. It's tax
from trickle-down economics, just cutting taxes also on a the
divide an economy that isn't growing.
I propose an American version of what works in other
I think we can do it better -- invest and grow. I
countries. we can increase investment and reduce the deficit at the
believe time if we not only ask the wealthiest Americans and foreign $100
billion in tax relief in terms of incentives, new plants,
same corporations to pay their fair share. We also provide over new
small businesses, new technologies, new housing, and for middle
class families; and we have $140 billion of spending cuts.
Invest and grow. Raise some more money, spend the
money on tax incentives to have growth in the private sector,
take the money from the defense cuts and reinvest it in new
transportation and communications and environmental cleanup
systems. This will work.
on this, as on so many other issues, I have a
fundamental difference from the present administration. I don't
believe trickle-down economics will work. Unemployment is up.
Most people are working harder for less money than they were
making 10 years ago. I think we can do better if we have the
courage to change.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, a response.
THE PRESIDENT: DO I have one minute? Just the
ground rules here.
MR. LEHRER: well, you have roughly one minute. We
can loosen that up a little bit. But go ahead.
THE PRESIDENT: He doesn't like trickle-down
government, but, hey, I think he's talking about the Reagan-Bush
years where we created 15 million jobs. The rich are paying a
bigger percent of the total tax burden. And what I don't like is
trickle-down government. And therein -- I think Governor Clinton
keeps talking about trickle-down, trickle-down, and he's still
talking about spending more and taxing more.
Government -- he says invest government; grow
government. Government doesn't create jobs. If they do, they're
make-work jobs. It's the private sector that creates jobs. And,
yes, we've got too many taxes on the American people and we're
spending too much. And that's why I want to get the deficit down
by controlling the growth of mandatory spending.
It won't be painless. I think Mr. Perot put his
finger on something there. It won't be painless, but we've got
to get the job done. But not by raising taxes.
Mr. and Mrs. America, when you hear him say we're
going to tax only the rich, watch your wallet, because his
figures don't add up, and he's going to sock it right to the
middle class taxpayer and lower if he's going to pay for all the
spending programs he's proposed. so we have a big difference on
this trickle-down theory. I do not want any more trickle-down
government. It's gotten too big. I want to do something about
that.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, what do you think of the
Governor's approach -- what he just laid out?
MR. PEROT: well, the basic problem with it is it
doesn't balance the budget. If you forecast it out, you still
will have a significant deficit under each of their plans, as I
understand them. our challenge is to stop the financial
bleeding. If you take a patient into a hospital that's bleeding
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arterially, step one is to stop the bleeding. And we are
bleeding arterially.
deterioration of our job base, to have a growing,
There's only one way out of this. And that 18 to
stop the job base, to give us the tax base. see, balancing s4-trillion the
budget and leaving our children the American Dream intact. is going have to
expanding is not nearly as difficult as paying off the We
debt spent their money; we have got to pay it back. This
take fair shared sacrifice.
do it faster than that because we didn't want to disrupt finish
MY plan balances the budget within six years. We
didn't economy. We gave it off to a slow start and a fast did it. to
the give the economy time to recover. But we faced it and we
And we believe it's fair shared sacrifice.
The one thing I have done is lay it squarely on the
in front of the American people. You've had a number of
table occasions to see in detail what the plan is and at least you'll that
understand it. I think that's fundamental in our country
you know what you're getting into.
MR. LEHRER: Governor, the word "pain" -- one of the
other leadership things that's put on you is that you don't speak
of pain. That you speak of all things -- nobody's going to
really have to suffer under your plan. You've heard what Mr.
Perot has said. He said -- to do the things that you want to do,
can't do it by just taking the money from the rich. That's
you what the President says as well. HOW do you respond to that?
The numbers don't add up.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I disagree with both of them.
For one thing -- let me just follow up here. I disagree with Mr.
Perot that the answer is to raise -- put a 50-cent gas tax on the
middle class and raise more taxes on the middle class and the
working poor than on the wealthy. His own analysis says that
unemployment will be slightly higher in 1995 under his plan than
it is today. And as far as what Mr. Bush says, he is the person
who raised taxes on the middle class after saying he wouldn't.
And just this year Mr. Bush vetoed a tax increase on the wealthy
that gave middle class tax relief. He vetoed middle class tax
relief this year.
And furthermore, under this administration, spending
has increased more than it has in the last 20 years -- and he
asked Congress to spend more money than it actually spent. Now,
it's hard to outspend Congress, but he tried to for the last
three years.
so my view is the middle class is the -- they've
been suffering, J1m. Now, should people pay more for Medicare if
they can? Yes. should they pay more for Social Security if they
get more out of it than they've paid in and they're upper income
people? Yes. But look what's happened to the middle class.
Middle class Americans are working harder for less money than
they were making 10 years ago and they're paying higher taxes.
The tax burden on them has not gone down; it has gone up.
I don't think the answer is to slow the economy down
more, drive unemployment up more, and undermine the health of the
private sector. The answer is to invest and grow this economy.
That's what works in other countries and that's what will work
here.
MR. LEHRER: As a practical matter, Mr. President,
do you agree with the Governor when he says that the middle class
-- the taxes on the middle class -- do your numbers agree that
the taxes on the middle class have gone up during the last --
THE PRESIDENT: Everybody is paying too much taxes.
He refers to one tax increase. Let me remind you it was a
4 -
Democratic tax increase. And I didn't want to do it and I went
mistake, I admit it. That's quite different than some. But I
along with it. And I said I make a mistake -- if I make a
think that's the American way.
I think everyone is paying too much. But I think
this idea that you can go out and -- then he hits me for vetoing
a tax bill. Yes, I did. And the American taxpayer ought to be
glad they have a President to stand up to a spending Congress.
We remember what it was like when we had a spending
Fresident and a spending Congress and interest rates -- who
remembers that -- they were 21.5 percent under Jimmy Carter. And
inflation was 15. We don't want to go back to that.
And so, yes, everybody's taxed too much, and I want
to get the taxes down. But not by signing a tax bill that's
going to raise taxes on people.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, when you said just then
that you admit your mistakes, and you looked at Governor Clinton
and said -- what mistake is it that you want him to admit to?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the record in Arkansas. I
mean, look at it. And that's what we're asking America to have?
Now, look, he says Arkansas's a poor state. They are. But in
almost every category -- they're lagging. I'll give you an
example.
He talks about all the jobs he's created in one or
two years. Over the last 10 years since he's been Governor,
they're 30 percent behind. They're 30 percent of the national
average. on pay for teachers, on all these categories, Arkansas
is right near the very bottom.
You haven't heard me mention this before, but we're
getting close now and I think it's about time I start putting
things in perspective. And I'm going to do that. It's not dirty
campaigning because he's been talking about my record for half a
year here, 11 months here. And so we've got to do that. I've
got to get it in perspective.
What's his mistake? Admit it, that Arkansas is
doing very, very badly against any standard -- environment,
support for police officers, whatever it is.
MR. LEHRER: Governor, is that true?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Mr. Bush's Bureau of Labor
statistics says that Arkansas ranks first in the country in the
growth of new jobs this year -- first.
THE PRESIDENT: This year.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Fourth in manufacturing jobs.
Fourth in the reduction of poverty. Fourth in income increase.
Over the last 10 years we've created manufacturing jobs much more
rapidly than the national average. over the last five years our
income has grown more rapidly than the national average. We are
second in tax burden -- the second lowest tax burden in the
country. We have the lowest per capita state and local spending
in the country.
We are low spending, low tax burden. We've
dramatically increased and our jobs are growing. I wish America
had that kind of record, and I think most people looking at us
tonight would like it if we had more jobs and a lower spending
burden on the government.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, if you were sitting at home
now and just heard this exchange about Arkansas, who would you
believe?
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MR. PEROT: I grew up five blocks from
Arkansas. (Laughter.) Let's put it in perspective. It's a
beautiful state. It's a fairly rural state. It has a population
less than Chicago or Los Angeles, about the size of Dallas and
Fort Worth combined. so I think probably we're making a mistake
night after night after night to cast the nation's future on a
unit that small.
MR. LEHRER: why is that a mistake?
MR. PEROT: It's irrelevant. (Laughter and
applause.)
MR. LEHRER: what he did as Governor of Arkansas --
MR. PEROT: No, no, no. But you can't -- I could
say that I ran a small grocery store on the corner; therefore, I
extrapolate that into the fact that I could run Wal-Mart. That's
not true. (Applause.) I can't protect an Arkansas --
MR. LEHRER: Governor?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Mr. Perot, with all respect, I
think it is highly relevant, and I think that a s4-billion budget
in state and federal funds is not all that small. And I think
the fact that I took a state that was one of the poorest states
in the country and had been for 153 years, and tried my best to
modernize its economy and to make the kind of changes that have
generated support from people like the presidents of Apple
Computer and Hewlett Packard and some of the biggest companies in
this country, 24 retired generals and admirals and hundreds of
business executives are highly relevant.
And, you know, I'm, frankly, amazed that since you
grew up five blocks from there you would think that what goes on
in that state is irrelevant. I think it's been pretty
impressive.
MR. PEROT: It's not --
GOVERNOR CLINTON: And the people who have jobs --
(applause) -- the people who have jobs and educations and
opportunities that didn't have them 10 years ago don't think it's
irrelevant at all. They think it's highly relevant, and wish the
rest of the country --
THE PRESIDENT: I don't have a dog in this fight,
but I'd like to get in on it.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: You think it's relevant.
(Laughter.)
THE PRESIDENT: Governor Clinton has to operate
under a balanced budget amendment. He has to do it. That is the
law. I'd like to see a balanced budget amendment for America, to
protect the American taxpayers. And then that would discipline
not only the Executive Branch, but the spending Congress, the
Congress that's been in control of one party -- his party -- for
39 years. And we almost had it done. And that institution, the
House of Representatives -- everyone's yelling "Clean House" --
one of the reasons is we almost had it done. And the Speaker --
very able, decent fellow, I might add -- but he twisted the arms
of some of the sponsors of that legislation and had them change
their vote.
What's relevant here is that tool, that discipline
that he has to live by in Arkansas -- and I'd like it for the
American people. I want the line-item veto. I want a check-off
so of the Congress can't do it, let people check off their income
tax, 10 percent of it, to compel the government to cut spending.
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. 6 -
And if they can't do it, if the Congress can't do it, let them
then have to do it across the board -- that's what we call a
sequester. That's the discipline we need. And I'm working for
that, to protect the American taxpayer against the big spenders.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, let's move to some of
the leadership concerns that have been voiced about you. And
they relate to something you said in your closing statement in
Richmond the other night about the President being the manager of
crises. And that relates to an earlier criticism that you began
to focus on the economy, on health care, on racial divisions in
this country only after they became crises. Is that a fair
criticism?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Jim, I don't think that's a fair
shot. I hear it. I hear it echoed by political opponents, but I
don't think it's fair. I think we've been fighting for day one
to do something about the inner cities. I'm for enterprise
zones. I have had it in every single proposal I've sent to the
Congress. And now we hear a lot of talk -- oh, well, we all want
enterprise zones. And yet the House and the Senate can't send 1t
down without loading it up with a lot of these Christmas tree
ornaments they put on the legislation. I don't think in racial
harmony that I'm a laggard on that. I've been speaking out since
day one.
We've gotten the Americans For Disabilities Act,
which I think is one of the foremost pieces of civil rights
legislation. And, yes, it took me to veto two civil rights quota
bills, because I don't believe in quotas, and I don't think the
American people believe in quotas. And I deep-backed the
Congress on that, and then we passed a decent civil rights bill
that offers guarantees against discrimination in employment. And
that is good.
I've spoken out over and over again against anti-
Semitism and racism, and I think my record as a member of
Congress speaks for itself on that.
What was the other part of it?
MR. LEHRER: well, it's just that -- you've spoken
to it. I mean, but the idea -- not so much in specifics --
PRESIDENT BUSH: Yes.
MR. LEHRER: -- but that it has to be a crisis
before you -- it gets your attention.
PRESIDENT BUSH: I don't think that's true at all.
I don't think that's true. But, you know, let others fire away
on it.
MR. LEHRER: DO you think that's true, Mr. Perot?
MR. PEROT: I'd like to just talk about issues, and
so --
MR. LEHRER: You don't think this is an issue?
MR. PEROT: Well, no. But the point is that's a
subjective thing. The subjective thing is when does President
Bush react. And I feel it would be very difficult for me to
answer that in any short period of time.
MR. LEHRER: well, then, let's phrase -- I'll phrase
it differently then. He said the other night in his closing
words in Richmond that one of the key things that he believes the
American people should decide between -- among the three of you,
15 who they want in charge if this country gets to a crisis.
Now, that's what he said. And the rap on the President is that
it's only crises time that he focuses on some of these things.
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so my question to you -- we're going to talk about you in a
minute.
MR. PEROT: I thought you'd forgotten I was here.
(Laughter.)
MR. LEHRER: No, no, no. No, no. But my question
to you is -- 80 -- if you have nothing to say about it, fine.
I'll go to Governor Clinton. But --
MR. PEROT: I will let the American people decide
that. I would rather not critique the two candidates.
MR. LEHRER: All right.
Governor, what do you think?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: The only thing I would say about
that is I think that on the economy, Mr. Bush said for a long
time there was no recession and then said it would be better to
do nothing than to have a compromise effort with the Congress.
He really didn't have a new economic program until over 1,300
days into his presidency and not all of his health care
initiative has been presented to the Congress even now.
I think it's important to elect a President who is
committed to getting this economy going again and who realizes we
have to abandon trickle-down economics and put the American
people first again, and who will send programs to the Congress in
the first 100 days to deal with the critical issues that
America's crying out for leadership on -- jobs, incomes, the
health care crisis, the need to control the economy. Those
things deserve to be dealt with from day one. I will deal with
them from day one. They will be my first priority, not my
election year concerns.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President.
PRESIDENT BUSH: well, I think you're overlooking
that we have had major accomplishments in the first term. But if
you're talking about protecting the taxpayer against his friends
in the United states Congress, go back to what it was like when
you had a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress. You
don't have to go back to Herbert Hoover. GO back to Jimmy
Carter. And interest rates were 21 percent, inflation was 15
percent, the Misery Index -- unemployment, inflation added
together -- it was invented by the Democrats -- went right
through the roof. We've cut it in half. And all you hear about
is how bad things are.
You know -- you remember the question, "Are you
better off?" well, is a homebuyer better off who can refinance
the home because interest rates are down? Is a senior citizen
better off because inflation is not wiping out their family
savings? I think they are. IS the guy out of work better off?
of course, he's not. But he's not going to be better off if we
grow the government -- if we invest, as Governor Clinton says,
invest in more government.
You've got to free up the private sector. You've
got to let small business have more incentives. For three months
-- three quarters, I've been fighting -- three quarters been
fighting to get the Congress to pass some incentives for small
business -- capital gains, investment tax allowance, credit for
first-time homebuyers. And it's blocked by the Congress. And
then if a little of it comes my way, they load it up with
Christmas trees and tax increases. And I have to stand up in
favor of the taxpayer.
MR. LEHRER: I have to let -- we have to talk about
Ross Perot now or he'll get me, I'm sure.
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this issue that I have raised leadership at the
very beginning United states, the folks in
Mr. and Perot, wa've on been talking about, concerns which -- my is reading of
as President of -- my the concerns about you, as expressed you've by got a
the polls with and General other Motors. You took your 5750 about some you
it, at least places, it goes like this: million and
problem had problem in the spring and summer candidate for
left. You that a you took as a potential
personal hits of the United states, and you walked out. President Does that
President say anything relevant to how you would function as of
the United states?
PEROT: I think the General Motors thing is very face
relevant. in the mid-'80s while it was still knows
I MR. did everything I could to get General financially Motors to
its problems They just wouldn't do it. And everybody now obvious the to
strong. terrible price they're paying by waiting until it's
the brain dead that they have problems. (Laughter.)
hundreds -- thousands of good, decent people,
cities Now, up here in this state are adversely impacted at because that
whole would not move in a timely way. Our government is tap the
they The thing that I am in this race for is to one
point now. people on the shoulder and to say to every single have of a
American Fix it while we're still relatively strong. If to you address
you: heart problem, you don't wait until the heart attack
it.
so the General Motors experience is relevant. At
had the point created so much stress in the board, who wanted just to
when I could not get them to address those problems, keep I
the Lawrence welk music going, that they asked to buy my
remaining shares. I sold them my remaining shares. They went
their way, I went my way. Because it was obvious we had a
complete disagreement about what should be done with the company.
But let's take my life in perspective. Again and
When I was asked by our government to do the POW project, within
again on complex, difficult tasks, I have stayed the course.
the Vietnamese had sent people into Canada to make
a arrangements year to have me and my family killed. And I had five
small children. And my family and I decided we would stay the
course, and we lived with that problem for three years.
Then I got into the Texans' war on drug program, and
the big-time drug dealers got all upset. Then when I had two
people imprisoned in Iran, I could have left them there, I could
have rationalized it. We went over, we got them out and we
brought them back home. And since then, for years, I have lived
with the burden of the Middle East where it's eye for an eye and
tooth for a tooth country in terms of their unhappiness with the
fact that I was successful in that effort.
Again and again and again, in the middle of the
night at 2:00 a.m. or 3:00 a.m. in the morning, my government has
called me to take extraordinary steps for Americans in distress.
And again and again and again, I have responded. And I didn't
wilt and I didn't quit.
NOW, what happened in July we've covered again and
again and again. But I think in terms of the American people's
concern about my commitment -- and I'm here tonight, folks. I've
never quit supporting you as you put me on the ballot in the
other 26 states. And when you asked me to come back in, I came
back in. And talk about not quitting -- I'm spending my money on
this campaign. The two parties are spending your money --
taxpayer money. I've put my wallet on the table for you and your
children -- over $60 million at least will go into this campaign
to leave the American Dream to you and your children to get this
country straightened out. Because if anybody owes it to you, I
do. I've lived the American Dream; I'd like for your children to
be able to live it, too. (Applause.)
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staying the course question about Mr. Perot?
MR. LEHRER: Governor, do you have a response to the
you Perot. asked I him think what I'd like to talk about a minute of
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I. don't have any criticism Mr.
much errors in the 1980s, but I also think we should look made
some any question that the automobile executives I
think there's the question was the General Motors issue. is, since don't
have losing a lot of auto jobs, in my judgment because We're
still productivity and how much management has done. has done
to increase productivity has increased lately -- how much labor at how
base a national economic strategy that would build the industrial we don't
of this country.
presidents of the Willow Run Union near here. They both said
Just today, I met with the presidents and the vice
economic program that put them back to work. We need
they were Vietnam veterans supporting me because I had an
to investment control incentive to modernize plant and equipment. an We've got
trade can't keep the manufacturing jobs here. And we need a tough
the health care costs for those people; otherwise we
the economic and industrial base.
for open markets. We ought to have a strategy that will build
policy that is fair, that insists on open markets in return
management practices. But they didn't have much of a partner in
So I think Mr. Perot was right in questioning the
Japanese followed. And I believe we can do better. That's one
government here as compared with the policies the Germans and the
of the thing I want to change. I know that we can grow
manufacturing nationally. jobs. We did it in my state and we can do it
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, do you have a response?
THE PRESIDENT: To this?
MR. LEHRER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I wondered when Governor
Clinton was talking to the autoworkers whether he talked about
his and Senator Gore's favoring CAFE standards -- those are fuel
efficiency standards -- of 40 miles per gallon. That would break
the auto industry and throw a lot of people out of work.
.s regarding Mr. Perot, I take back something I said
about him. I once said in a frivolous moment when he got out of
the race, if you can't stand the heat, buy an air conditioning
company. And I take it back because I think he said he made a
mistake. And the thing I find is if I make a mistake I admit it.
I've never heard Governor Clinton make a mistake.
But one mistake he's made is fuel efficiency
standards at 40 to 45 miles per gallon will throw many
autoworkers out of work. And you can't have it both ways.
There's a pattern here of appealing to the autoworkers and then
trying to appeal to the spotted owl crowd or the extremes in the
environmental movement. You can't do it as President. You can't
have a pattern of one side of the issue one day and another the
next.
so my argument is not with ROSS Perot; it is more
with Governor Clinton.
MR. LEHRER: Governor, what about that charge --
having it both ways on this issue?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Let's just talk about the CAFE
standards.
MR. LEHRER: All right.
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fleet. standards. I never They're GOVERNOR said now -- CLINTON: and 27.5 I miles That's per gallon the fuel per efficiency automobile
said to 40 miles a gallon. goal I of think raising that the fuel efficiency said standards that I
we gave ought an extensive to have a environment speech defy you in to April. find where And I I said --
goal cannot we should be write achieved. it into law if there should is be evidence a goal. I never
efficiency study which standards said it would be The difficult National for Science Foundation that did that a
us
to
2000. I think we should in excess try to of raise 37 miles the fuel per efficiency. gallon reach by fuel the
year
doesn't incentives mean to we And do have it. let to me I write think say this: we it ought into I think the, to push law. we ought to do to it. have That
private is the Bush sector administration Look, in the I am last a job four that creator, has had not no new a job jobs destroyer. in the It
America the country to improve in private fuel sector efficiency. job years. growth. In But my state it is we're good for leading
environment. compress natural gas. That's another way to improve -- the
We also ought to convert more fuel vehicles to
General thrown Motors, where do you come down on this? on your experience
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, based at
beginning about, about back jobs and and forth CAFE during standards. this campaign This from has the been very
problem. edges. Let's go to the center of the bull's around
MR. PEROT: Well, everybody's nibbling the
Mexican country knows it. You implement that floor
over this And, believe me, everybody on the factory eye to the core all
no health trade agreement -- where they pay people NAFTA $1 -- the
sounds of et cetera, and you're going to hear a job et cetera,
et cetera, care, no retirement, no pollution controls, an hour, have
when we need jobs being pulled out of this country right -- sucking time
got to on the debt and get our house back in pay order. down We the have
interest the tax base to pay the debt and at a
proceed very carefully on that.
of understand doing how to make things work. And I've got I do
understand business. I do understand creating jobs. I do
See, there's a lot I don't understand.
faces that. Now, if you want to go to the core a long history that
agreement that's about to be put into practice.
everybody in manufacturing in this country, it's problem that
Listen create jobs. Yes, it will create bubble jobs. Now, watch this.
But here -- very simply -- everybody says it will
year after and ship machine tools and equipment down there. we Then
factories very carefully to this: One-time surge while build
haven't said, "Oh, it will be disruptive for 12 to 15 experts years." and We
they I didn't understand it. I called all the
thought year for decades they will have jobs. And I finally
were got 12 days, folks. We cannot lose those jobs.
an hour eventually saying Mexican jobs will eventually come They to $7.50
makes you feel real good to hear that, right?
and ours will eventually go down to $7.50 an hour. It
I'm for free trade philosophically, but I have studied these
Let's think it through, here. Let's be careful.
good trade agreements until the world has gone flat, and we don't have
chance trade agreements across the world. I hope we'll have
center of the bull's eye and tell you why we're losing whole to
to get into that tonight, because I can get right a the
industries in this country. Excuse me.
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MR. LEHRER: Just for the record, though, Mr. Perot,
I take it then for your answer you do not have a position on
whether or not enforcing the CAFE standards will cost jobs in the
auto industry.
MR. PEROT: oh, no It will cost jobs. But that's
not -- let me say this: I'd rather -- if you gave me two bad
choices --
MR. LEHRER: Okay.
MR. PEROT: I'd rather have some jobs left here than
just see everything head south, see?
MR. LEHRER: so that means no -- (laughter) -- in
other words, you agree with President Bush, is that right?
MR. PEROT: No, I'm saying our principal need now is
to stabilize the tax base, which is the job base, and create a
growing, dynamic base. Now, please, folks, if you don't hear
anything else I say, remember where the -- millions of people at
work are our tax base. one quick point: If you confiscate the
Forbes 400 wealth -- take it off, you cannot balance the budget
this year. Kind of gets your head straight about where the taxes
year in and year out have got to come from. Millions and
millions of people at work.
MR. LEHRER: I wanted -- yes, sir.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I'm caught in the middle of
NAFTA. Ross says, with great conviction, he opposes the North
American Free Trade Agreement. I am for the North American Free
Trade Agreement. My problem with Governor Clinton, once again,
is that one time he's going to make up his mind -- he will see
some merit in it, but then he sees a lot of things wrong with it.
And then the other day he says he's for it. However, then we've
got to pass other legislation. When you're President of the
United States, you cannot have this pattern of saying "well, I'm
for it, but I'm on the other side of it." And it's true on this
and it's true on CAFE.
Look, if Ross were right and we get a free trade
agreement with Mexico, why wouldn't they have gone down there
now? You have a differential in wages right now. I just have an
honest philosophical difference. I think free trade is going to
expand our job opportunity. I think it is exports that have
saved us when we're in a global slowdown -- a connected, global
slowdown -- a recession in some countries. And it's free trade,
fair trade that needs to be our hallmark and we need more free
trade agreements, not fewer.
MR. LEHRER: Governor, a quick answer on trade, and
I want to go on to something else.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I'd like to respond to that. You
know, Mr. Bush was very grateful when I was among the Democrats
who said he ought to have the authority to negotiate an agreement
with Mexico. Neither I nor anybody else, as far as I know,
agreed to give him our proxy to say that whatever he did was fine
for the workers of this country and for the interests of this
country.
I am the one who is in the middle on this. Mr.
Perot says it's a bad deal. Mr. Bush says it's a hunky-dory
deal. I say, on balance, it does more good than harm if we could
get some protection for the environment SQ that the Mexicans have
to follow their own environmental standards, their own labor law
standards; and if we have a genuine commitment to reeducate and
retrain the American workers who lose their jobs and reinvest in
this economy.
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I have a realistic approach to trade. I want more
trade. And I know there are some good things in that agreement,
but it can sure be made better.
Let me just point out -- just today in The Los
Angeles Times, Clyde Prestowitz, who was one of President
Reagan's leading trade advisors, and a lifelong conservative
Republican, endorsed my candidacy because he knows that I'll have
a free and fair trade policy, a hard-headed realistic policy, and
not get caught up in rubber-stamping everything the Bush
administration did. If I wanted to do that, why would I run for
President, Jim? Anybody else can run the middle class down and
run the economy in a ditch; I want to change it. (Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT: I think he made my case. On the one
hand, it's a good deal, but on the other hand, I'd make it
better. You can't do that as President. You can't do it on the
war, where he says, well, I was with the minority, but I guess I
would have voted with the majority.
This is my point tonight: We're talking about two
weeks from now you've got to decide who is going to be President.
And there is this pattern that has plagued him in the primaries,
and now about trying to have it both ways on all these issues.
You can't do that. And 1f you make a mistake, say you made a
mistake and go on about your business, trying to serve the
American people.
Right now we heard it. Ross is against it. I am
for it. He says on the one hand I'm for it, and on the other
hand, I may be against it. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Governor --
GOVERNOR CLINTON: That's what's wrong with Mr.
Bush. His whole deal is, you've got to be for it or against it
and you can't make it better. I believe we can be better. I
think the American people are sick and tired of either-or
solutions, people being pushed in the corner, polarized to
extremes. I think they want somebody with common sense who can
do what's best for the American people. And I'd be happy to
discuss these other issues. But I can't believe he is accusing
me of getting on both sides.
He said trickle-down economics was voodoo economics.
Now, he's its biggest practitioner. (Laughter and applause.)
Let me just say --
THE PRESIDENT: I've always said trickle-down
government is bad.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I could run this string out a
long time, but remember this, Jim: Those 209 Americans last
Thursday night in Richmond told us they wanted us to stop talking
about each other and start talking about Americans and their
problems and their promises. And I think we ought to get back to
that. I'll be glad to answer any question you have, but this
election ought to be about the American people. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot?
MR. PEROT: Is there an equal time rule here
tonight?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
MR. PEROT: or do you just keep lunging in at will?
= thought we were going to have equal time, but maybe I just have
to interrupt the other two. IS that the way it works this --
MR. LEHRER: No. Mr. Perot, you're doing fine. Go
ahead. Whatever you want to say, say it.
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MR. PEROT: Now that we've talked all around the
problem about free trade, let's go again to the center of the
bull's eye.
MR. LEHRER: Wait a minute. I was going to ask -- I
thought you wanted to respond to what we were talking about.
MR. PEROT: I do. I do. I just want to make --
these foreign lobbyists, this whole thing -- our country has sold
out to foreign lobbyists. We don't have free trade. Both
parties have foreign lobbyists on leave and key roles in their
campaigns. And if there's anything more unwise than that, I
addresses it.
don't know what it is. Every debate, I bring this up and nobody
I would like for them to look you in the eye and
tell you why they have people representing foreign countries
working on their campaigns. And, you know, you've seen the list,
I've seen the list. We won't go into the names. But no wonder
they -- if I had those people around me all day every day telling
me it was fair and free, I might believe it. But if I look at
the facts as a businessman, it's 50 tilted. The first thing you
ought to do is just say, guys, if you like these deals so well,
we'll give you the deal you gave us.
Now, Japanese couldn't unload the cars in this
country if they had the same restrictions we had, and on, and on,
and on, and on, and on. I suggest to you that the core problem
-- one country spent $400 million lobbying in 1988 -- our
country. And it goes on and on. And you look at a Who's Who in
these campaigns around the two candidates. They're foreign
lobbyists taking leaves. What do you think they're going to do
when the campaign's over? Go back to work at $30,000 a month
representing some other country. I don't believe that's in the
American people's interest.
I don't have a one of them, and I haven't taken a
penny of foreign money, and I never will. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, how do you respond to
that? Mr. Perot has made that charge several times -- the fact
that you have people working in your campaign who are paid
foreign lobbyists.
THE PRESIDENT: Most people that are lobbying are
lobbying the Congress. And I don't think there's anything wrong
with an honest person who happens to represent an interest of
another country for making his case. That's the American way.
And what you're assuming is that that makes the recipient of the
lobbying corrupt or the lobbyists themselves corrupt. I don't
agree with that.
But if I found somebody that had a conflict of
interest that would try to illegally do something as a foreign
registered lobby, the laws cover this. I don't know why -- I've
never understood quite why Mr. Perot was so upset about it,
because one of the guys he used to have working for him, I
believe, had foreign accounts. Could be wrong, but I think so.
MR. PEROT: Soon as I found it out, he went out the
door, too. (Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think you've got to look at
the integrity and the honor of the people that are being lobbied
and those that are lobbyists. The laws protect the American
taxpayer in this regard. If the laws are violated, so much --
but to suggest if somebody represents a foreign country on
anything that makes him corrupt, I don't -- or against the
taxpayer, I don't agree with it.
MORE
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President's is US President Air terribly and industries knows KLM destructive campaign and it. in Northwest big But the to time? this world And the -- deal I U.S. A is now, doubt, guy the that airline guess from in we're all Northwest. who industry. doing candor, is on with the if One This country, BAC the of deal and the
today. detail things business. from largest now take it we if to hammer-lock We a we you. I few won't can let minutes. I -- deals be won't if the making the like take But press this airplanes that's 10 minutes has go through. happening any travel in tonight; interest this and country as tourist we all tonight, sit these 10 here years I'll
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never forget, this deal with these two European we because we're And
They're dying privately-owned consortium it's Europe. a
government-owned, they've got Airbus over there, and companies.
to get the commercial airline business. across
understand there sure are a lot of inside
on business. this issue, I don't but think there are any villains commercial airline government
Japan is trying to get the
understands business. when And maybe you need somebody people who don't
you're getting your pocket picked. up there (Applause) who
my time with --
MR. LEHRER: Governor, I'm sorry, but that concludes
that.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Boy, I had a great response to
(Laughter.)
MR. LEHRER: All right. Go ahead, quickly.
Just very briefly.
we them do disclose need some more restrictions on lobbyists. right, We and to that make
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I think Ross is
the before congressional committees. We they're close
testifying to people they've given money to when ought
have really lobbying. And we ought to limit when
they're lawyers' loophole; they ought to have to disclose ought to
out and people can leave Executive Branch offices years between and the
time when a much longer period of time, about five -- we ought to
start lobbying for foreign interest. I agree with then that. go
that there's have all these leveraged buyouts and all these terrible because
We've wrecked the airline industry already
is time rebuilding it. But the real thing we've going have have
a hard happened to the airline industry. We're to things
a competitive economic strategy. Look what's got to
without the Europeans spend $25 billion to $40 billion on Airpus
McDonnell let Douglas. Even Boeing is losing market happening share because to we
an appropriate competitive response.
compete real and win by investing in competitive ways. And we're in
What I want America to do is to trade more, but to
trouble on that. (Applause.)
don't bring out -- it's about time --
MR. LEHRER: I'm going to be in real trouble if I
THE PRESIDENT: I promise it's less than 10 seconds.
MR. LEHRER: Okay.
THE PRESIDENT: I heard Governor Clinton
pleasant congratulate us on one thing. First time he said something
is about this administration. Productivity in this country
thing. There are many other good ones, but I was glad a he
up. It is way up. Productivity is up, and that's good
acknowledged that.
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40 15 -
MR. PEROT: I've volunteered -- now, look, I'm just
kind of a, you know, third dog here: I was put on the ballot by
the people, not special interest; 80 I have to stand up for
myself. Now, Jim, let me net it out. On the second debate, I
offered, since both sides want the enterprise zones but can't get
together, I said I'll take a few days off and go to washington
and hold hands with you and we'll get it done. I'll take a few
days off, hold hands with you and get this airline thing
straightened out, because that's important to this country.
That's kind of pathetic I have to do it, and
nobody's called me yet to come up, I might mention -- (laughter)
-- but if they do, if they do, it's easy to fix. If you all want
the enterprise zones, why don't we pass the dang thing and do it,
right?
MR. LEHRER: All right. Now we're going to bring in
three other journalists to ask questions. They are Susan Rook of
CNN, Gene Gibbons of Reuters, and Helen Thomas of United Press
International.
You thought you'd never get in here, didn't you?
THE PRESIDENT: Uh-oh. (Applause)
MR. LEHRER: Okay, we are going to continue on the
subject of leadership, and the first question goes to Governor
Clinton for a two-minute answer. It will be asked by Helen
Thomas.
Helen?
MS. THOMAS: Governor Clinton, your credibility has
come into question because of your different responses on the
Vietnam draft. If you had it to do over again, would you put on
the nation's uniform? And, if elected, could you, in good
conscience, send someone to war?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: If I had it to do over again, I
might answer the questions a little better. You know, I had been
in public life a long time and no one had ever questioned my
role, and SO I was asked a lot of questions about things that
happened a long time ago. I don't think I answered them as well
as I could have.
Going back 23 years, I don't know, Helen. I was
opposed to the war. I couldn't help that. I felt very strongly
about it, and I didn't want to go at the time. It's easy to say
in retrospect I would have done something differently.
President Lincoln opposed the war, and there were
people who said maybe he shouldn't be President. But I think he
made us a pretty good President in wartime. We've got a lot of
other Presidents who didn't wear their country's uniform and had
to order our young soldiers into battle, including President
Wilson and President Roosevelt. So the answer is, I could do
that. I wouldn't relish doing it, but I wouldn't shrink from it.
I think that the President has to be prepared to use
the power of the nation when our vital interests are threatened,
when our treaty commitments are at stake, when we know that
something has to be done that is in the national interest. And
that is a part of being President.
could I do it? Yes, I could.
MR. LEHRER: A reminder now, we're back on the St.
Louis rules, which means that the Governor had his answer, and
then each of you will have one minute to respond.
Mr. President?
- 16 -
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I've expressed my heartfelt
while in a foreign land against your country when young ghetto
difference with Governor Clinton on organizing demonstrations
kids have been drafted and are dying.
My argument with him on -- the question was about
Hampshire, Senator Kerry said you ought to level, you ought to
the draft -- is that there is this same pattern. In New
tell the truth about it. And April 17th, he said he's bring out
all the records on the draft. They have not been forthcoming.
He got a deferment or he didn't. He got a notice or he didn't.
And I think it's this pattern that troubles me more than the
draft. A lot of decent, honorable people felt as he did on the
draft. But it is this pattern.
And again, you might be able to make amendments all
the time, Governor, but you've got to -- as President, you can't
be on all these different sides, and you can't have this pattern
of saying, well, I did this or I didn't. Then the facts come out
and you change it. That's my big difference with him on the
draft. It wasn't failing to serve.
MR. LEHRER: Your minute is up, sir.
Mr. Perot, one minute.
MR. PEROT: I've spent my whole adult life very
close to the military; feel very strongly about the people who go
into battle for our country; appreciate their idealism, their
sacrifices; appreciate the sacrifices their families make.
That's been displayed again and again in a very tangible way.
I look on this as history. I don't look on it,
personally, as relevant. And I consider it really a waste of
time tonight when you consider the issues that face our country
right now.
MR. LEHRER: All right. The next question goes to
President Bush and Gene Gibbons will ask it. (Applause.)
MR. GIBBONS: Mr. President, you keep saying that
you made a mistake in agreeing to a tax increase to get the 1990
budget deal with Congress. But if you hadn't gotten that deal
you would have either had to get repeal of the Gramm-Rudman
deficit control act or cut defense spending drastically at a time
when the country was building up for the Gulf War, and decimate
domestic discretionary spending, including such things as air
traffic control. If you had it to do all over again, sir, which
of those alternatives would you choose?
THE PRESIDENT: I wouldn't have taken any of the
alternatives. I believe I made a mistake. I did it for the very
reasons you say. There was one good thing that came out of that
budget agreement and that is we put a cap on discretionary
spending.
One-third of the President's budget is at the
President's discretion -- or really, the Congress, since they
appropriate every dime and tell the President how to spend every
dime. We've put a cap on the growth of all that spending. And
that's good. And that's helped. But I was wrong because I
thought the tax compromise, going along with one Democratic tax
increase, would help the economy. I see no evidence that it has
done it.
$0 what would I have done, what should I have done?
I should have held out for a better deal that would have
protected the taxpayer and not ended up doing what we had to do
-- or what I thought at the time would help.
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so I made a mistake. And I -- you know, the
difference, I think, is that I knew at the time I was going to
take a lot of political flack. I knew we'd have somebody out
there yelling, "Read my lips." And I did it because I thought it
was right. And I made a mistake. That's quite different than
taking a position where you know what's best for you. That
wasn't best for me, and I knew it in the very beginning. I
thought it would be better for the country than it was.
SO there we are. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, one minute.
MR. PEROT: The 101 in leadership is be accountable
for what you do. Let's go back to the tax and budget summit
briefly. Nobody ever told the American people that we increase
spending $1.83 for every dollar of taxes raised. That's
absolutely unconscionable. Both parties carry a huge blame for
that on their shoulders.
This was not a way to pay on the deficit. This was
a trick on the American people. That's not leadership. Let's go
back in terms of accepting responsibilities for your actions. To
create saddam Hussein over a 10-year period and using billions of
dollars of U.S. taxpayer money, step up to the plate and say, it
was a mistake.
TO create Noriega, using taxpayer money, step up to
the plate and say it was a mistake. If you can't get your act
together to pick him up one day when a Panamanian major has
kidnapped him -- a special forces team is 400 yards away and it's
a stroll across the park to get him -- and if you can't get your
act together, at least pick up the Panamanian major who they then
killed -- step up to the plate and admit it was a mistake.
That's leadership, folks.
Now, leaders will always make mistakes. We've
created -- and I'm not aiming at any one person here. I'm aiming
at our government. Nobody takes responsibility for anything.
We've got to change that.
MR. LEHRER: I'll take responsibility for saying.
your time is up.
MR. PEROT: I'm watching the light.
MR. LEHRER: All right.
Governor Clinton, one minute, sir.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: The mistake that was made was
making the "read my lips" promise in the first place just to get.
elected, knowing what the size of the deficit was. (Applause.)
Knowing what the size of the deficit was, knowing there was no
plan to control health care costs, and knowing that we did not
have a strategy to get real economic growth back into this
economy. The choices were not good then.
I think at the time the mistake that was made was
signing off on the deal late on saturday night in the middle of
the night -- that's just what the President did when he vetoed
the Family Leave Act. I think what he should have done is go
before the American people on the front end and said "Listen, I
made a commitment and it was wrong. I made a mistake because I
couldn't have foreseen these circumstances and this is the best
deal we can work out at the time."
He said it was in the public interest at the time,
and most everybody who was involved in it I guess thought it was.
The real mistake was the "read my lips" promise in the first
place. You just can't = promise something like that just to get
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elected if you know there's a good chance that circumstances may
overtake you.
MR. LEHRER: All right, Mr. Perot, the question is
for you. You have a two minute answer, and it will be asked by
Susan Rook.
MS. ROOK: Mr. Perot, you've talked about going to
Washington to do what the people who run this country want you to
do. But it is the President's duty to lead, and often lead
alone. How can you lead if you are forever seeking consensus
before you act?
MR. PEROT: Let's talk about two different subjects.
In order to lead, you first have to use the White House as a
bully pulpit and lead. Then you have to develop consensus, or
you can't get anything done. And that's where we are now; we
can't get anything done. How do you get anything done? when
you've got all of these political action committees, all of these
thousands of registered lobbyists -- 40,000 registered lobbyists,
23,000 special interest groups, and the list goes on and on and
on, and the average citizen out here just working hard every day.
You've got to go to the people. I just love the fact that
everybody, particularly in the media, goes bonkers over the town
hall. I guess it's because you will lose your right to tell them
what to think. (Laughter.) The point is, they'll get to decide
what to think. (Applause.)
PRESIDENT BUSH: Hey -- you've got something there.
MR. PEROT: What you've been -- I love the fact that
people will listen to a guy with a bad accent and a poor
presentation manner talking about flip charts for 30 minutes,
because the want the details. See, all the folks up there at the
top said people -- "the attention span of the American people is
no more than five minutes. They won't watch it." They're
thirsty for it.
You want to have a new program in this country -- if
you get grassroots America excited about it and if they tap
Congress on the shoulder and say "Do it, Charlie," it will
happen. And that's a whole lot different from these fellows.
running up and down the halls whispering in their ears now and
promising campaign funds for the next election if they do it.
Now, I think that's going back to where we started.
That's having a government from the people. I think that's the
essence of leadership, rather than cutting deals in dark rooms in
Washington. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Well, I believe in the town hall
meetings. They started with my campaign in New Hampshire. And I
think Ross Perot has done a good job in having them. And I, as
you know, pushed for the debate to include 209 American citizens
who were part of it in Richmond a few days ago. I've done a lot
of them and I'll continue to do them as President.
But I'd also like to point out that I haven't been
part of what we're criticizing in Washington tonight. of the
three of us, I have balanced a government budget 12 times. I
have offered and passed campaign finance reform. Offered, pushed
for, and passed in public referendum lobbyist restrictions. Done
the kinds of things you have to do to get legislators together,
not only to establish consensus, but to challenge them to change.
And in 12 years as Governor, I guess I've taken on every interest
group there was in my state at one time or another to fight for
change. It can be done. That's why I've tried to be so specific
in this campaign to have a mandate, if elected, so that Congress
will know what the American people have voted for. (Applause.)
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MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
PRESIDENT BUSH: I would: like the record to show the
panelists that Ross Perot took the first shot at the press. MY
favorite bumper sticker, though, is "Annoy the Media. Reelect
President Bush." (Laughter and applause.) sorry, Helen. I'm
going to pay for this later on.
Look, you have to build a consensus, but in some
things -- Ross mentioned Saddam Hussein. Yes, we tried. And,
yes, we failed to bring him into the family of nations. He had
the fourth largest army. But then when he moved against Kuwait I
said, this will not stand. And it's hard to build a consensus.
We went to the U.N. We made historic resolutions up there. The
whole world was united. our Congress was dragging its feet.
Governor Clinton said "well, I might have been with the minority.
Let sanctions work. But I guess I would have voted with the
majority."
A President can't do that. Sometimes he has to act.
And in this case, I'm glad we did, because if we'd have let
sanctions work and had tried to build a consensus on that, Saddam
Hussein today would be in saudi Arabia controlling the world's
oil supply, and he would be there maybe with a nuclear weapon.
We busted the fourth largest army and we did it through
leadership.
MR. LEHRER: All right, we're going to go onto
another subject now, and the subject is priorities. And the
first question goes to you, President Bush, and Susan will ask
it.
MS. ROOK: President Bush, gentlemen, I acknowledge
that all of you have women and ethnic minorities working for you
and working with you. But when we look at the circle of the key
people closest to you, your inner circle of advisors, we see
white men only. Why, and when will that change?
PRESIDENT BUSH: You don't see Margaret Tutwiler
sitting in there with me today?
MS. ROOK: The key people, President Bush.
PRESIDENT BUSH: What?
MS. ROOK: The key people, the people beyond the
glass ceiling.
PRESIDENT BUSH: I happen to think she's a key
person. I think our Cabinet members are key people. I think the
woman that works with me, Rose Zamaria is about as tough as a --
(applause) -- up there and makes some discipline and protects the
taxpayer. Look at our Cabinet. You talk about somebody strong,
look at Carla Hills. Look at Lynn Martin, who's fighting against
this glass ceiling and doing a first class job on it. Look at
our Surgeon General, Dr. Novello. You can look all around and
you'll see first-class, strong women.
Jim Baker's a man. Yes, I plead guilty to that.
(Laughter.) But look around -- look who's around with him there.
I mean, this is a little defensive on your part, Susan, to be
honest with you. We've got a very good record appointing women
to high positions and positions of trust. And I'm not defensive
at all about it.
What we've got to do is keep working, as the Labor
Department is doing a first-class job on, to break down
discrimination, to break down the glass ceiling. And I am not
apologetic at all about our record with women. We've got -- I
think -- you think about women in government. I think about
women in business. Why not try to help them with my small
business program to build some incentives into the system.
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- 20 .
I think we're making progress here. You've got a
lot of women running for office. As I said the other night, I
hope a lot of them lose because they're liberal Democrats and we
don't need more of them in the Senate or more of them in the
House. But nevertheless, they're out there. And we've got some
very good Republican women running. so we're making dramatic
progress.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, one minute.
MR. PEROT: well, I've come from the computer
business and everybody knows women are more talented than the
men. so we have a long history of having a lot of talented
women. One of our first officers was a woman -- a chief
financial officer. she was a director. And it was so far back,
it was considered so odd. And even though we were a tiny, little
company at the time, it made all the national magazines.
But in terms of being influenced by women and being
a minority, there they are right O: : there -- my wife and my four
beautiful daughters. And I just have one son. so he and I are
surrounded by women telling us what to do all the time.
(Laughter.)
For the rest of my minute, I want to make a very
brief comment here in terms of Saddam Hussein. We told him that
we wouldn't get involved with this border dispute, and we've
never revealed those papers that were given to Ambassador Glaspie
on July 25. I suggest, in the sense of taking responsibility for
the actions, we lay those papers on the table. They're not
secrets to the nuclear bomb.
secondly, we got upset when he took the whole thing,
but to the ordinary American out there who doesn't know where the
oil fields are in Kuwait, they're near the border. We told him
he could take the northern part of Kuwait, and when he took the
whole thing we went nuts. And if we didn't tell him that, why
won't we even let the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the
senate Intelligence Committee see the written instructions for
Ambassador Glaspie?
PRESIDENT BUSH: I'd like to reply on that. That
gets to the national honor. We did not say to saddam Hussein,
Ross, you can take the northern part of Kuwait. That is
absolutely absurd. Glaspie has testified --
MR. PEROT: Where are the papers?
PRESIDENT BUSH: -- and Glaspie's papers have been
presented to the United States Senate. (Applause.) So please --
MR. PEROT: If you have time, go through NEXIS and
LEXIS, pull all the old news articles. Look at what Ambassador
Glaspie said all through the fall and what have you, and then
look at what she and Kelley and all the others in state said at
the end when they were trying to clean it up. And talk to any
head of any of those key committees in the senate. They will not
let them see the written instructions given to Ambassador
Glaspie. And I suggest that in a free society owned by the
people, the American people ought to know what we told Ambassador
Glaspie to tell saddam Hussein. Because we spent a lot of money
and risked lives and lost lives in that effort, and did not
accomplish most of our objectives. We got Kuwait back to the
Entr, but he still got his nuclear, his chemical, his
b cariological, and he's still over there, right? I'd like to
see those written instructions. sorry. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, when you -- just make
sure that everybody knows what's going on here. When you
responded directly to Mr. Perot then --
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PRESIDENT BUSH: Yes.
MR. LEHRER: -- you violated the rule -- your rules.
Now, I'm willing --
PRESIDENT BUSH: I apologize. when I make a mistake
I say -- (laughter.)
MR. LEHRER: NO, no, no. I just want to make sure
that everybody understands. If you all want to change the rules,
we can do it.
PRESIDENT BUSH: No, I don't. I apologize for it.
But that one got right to the national honor.
MR. LEHRER: All right. Okay.
PRESIDENT BUSH: And I'm sorry.
MR. LEHRER: Okay. But, Governor Clinton, you have
a minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: susan, I don't agree that there
are no women and minorities in important positions in my
campaign. There are many. But I think even more relevant is my
record at home. For most of my time as Governor, a woman was my
chief of staff, an African American was my chief cabinet officer,
an Africa American was my chief economic development officer.
It was interesting today -- there was a story either
today or yesterday in The Washington Post about my economic
programs and my chief budget officer and my chief economic
officer were both African Americans, even though The Post didn't
mention that, which I think is a sign of progress. The National
Women's Political Caucus gave me an award -- one of their good
guy awards -- for my involvement of women in high levels of
government. And I've appointed more minorities to positions of
high levels in government than all the governors in the history
of my state combined before me.
So that's what I'll do as President. I don't think
we've got a person to waste. And I think I owe the American
people a White House staff, a Cabinet, and appointments that look
like America, but that meet high standards of excellence, and
that's what I'll do. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: All right. The next question goes to
you, Mr. Perot for two minutes. It's a two-minute question, and
Helen will ask it.
Helen.
MS. THOMAS: Mr. Perot, what proof do you have that
Saddam Hussein was told that he could have -- do you have any
actual proof or are you asking for the papers? And also, I
really came in with another question. What is this penchant you
have to investigate everyone? Are those accusations correct --
investigating your staff, investigating the leaders of the
grassroots movement, investigating associates of your family?
MR. PEROT: No, they're not correct. And if you
look at my life for the first -- until I got involved in this
effort, I was one person. And then after the Republican dirty
tricks group got through with me, I'm another person, which I
consider an absolutely sick operation. And all of you in the
press know exactly what I'm talking about.
They investigated every single one of my children,
they investigated my wife, they interviewed all my children's
friends from childhood on. They went to extraordinary, sick
lengths. And I just found it amusing that they would take two or
three cases where I was involved in lawsuits and would engage an
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investigator -- the lawyers would engage an investigator, which
businessman is that has the major businesses I have is I haven't had
common. And the only difference between me and any other
that many lawsuits. so that's just another one of those little
fruit-loopy things they make up to try to instead of facing
issues, to try to redefine a person that's running against them.
This goes on night and day.
I will do everything I can -- and I got up there to
make dirty tricks a thing of the past -- one of the two groups
has raised it to an artform. It's a sick artform. Now, let's go
back to saddam Hussein. We gave Ambassador Glaspie written
instructions. That's a fact. We've never let the Congress and
these foreign relations -- Senate Intelligence Committee see
them. That's a fact.
Ambassador Glaspie did a lot of talking, right after
July 25th, and that's a fact and it saw the newspapers. And you
pool all of at once and read it -- and I did -- and it's pretty
clear what she and Kelly and the other key guys around that thing
thought they were doing.
Then, at the end of the war when they had to go
testify about it, their stories are a total disconnect from what
they said in August, September and October. so I say, this is
very simple: saddam Hussein released a tape, as you know,
claiming it was a transcript of their meeting, whereas she said
we will not become involved in your border dispute; as a matter
of fact, you can take the northern part of the country.
We later said, no, that's not true. I said, well,
this is simple. what were her written instructions? We guard
those like the secrets to the atomic bomb, literally. Now, I
say: Whose country is this? This is ours. Who will get hurt if
we lay those papers on the table? The worst thing is, again,
it's a mistake. Nobody did any of this with evil intent. I just
object to the fact that we cover up and hide things -- whether
it's Iran-Contra, Iraqgate, or you name it. It's a steady
stream.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, you have one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Let's take Mr. Bush for the
moment at his word. I mean, he's right, we don't have any
evidence, at least, that our government did tell Saddam Hussein
he could have that part of Kuwait. And let's give him the credit
he deserves for organizing Operation Desert storm and Desert
shield. It was a remarkable event.
But let's look at where I think the real mistake was
made. In 1988, when the war between Iraq and Iran ended, we knew
Saddam Hussein was a tyrant. We had dealt with him because he
was against Iran. The enemy of my enemy maybe is my friend.
All right, the war is over. We know he's dropping
mustard gas on his own people. We know he's threatened to
incinerate half of Israel. Several government departments --
several -- had information that he was converting our aid for
military purposes and trying to develop weapons of mass
destruction. But in late '89, the President signed a secret
policy saying we were going to continue to try to improve
relations with him, and we sent him some sort of communication on
the eve of his invasion of Kuwait that we still wanted better
relations.
so I think what was wrong -- I give credit where
credit is due, but the responsibility was in coddling Saddam
Hussein when there was no reason to do it and when people at high
levels in our government knew he was trying to do things that
were outrageous.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, you have a minute.
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THE PRESIDENT: It's awful easy when you're dealing
with 90-90 hindsight. We did try to bring Saddam Hussein into
the family of nations. He did have the fourth largest army. All
our Arab allies out there thought we ought to do just exactly
that. And when he crossed the line, I stood up and looked into
the camera and I said, this aggression will not stand. And we
formed a historic coalition and we brought him down. And we
destroyed the fourth largest army, and the battlefield was
searched, and there wasn't one single iota of evidence that any
U.S. weapons were on that battlefield. And the nuclear
capability has been searched by the United Nations, and there
hasn't been one single scintilla of evidence that there's any
U.S. technology involved in it.
And what you're seeing on all this Iraqgate is a
bunch of people who were wrong on the war trying to cover their
necks here and try to do a little revisionism. And I cannot let
that stand, because it isn't true. Yes, we had grain credits for
Iraq, and there isn't any evidence that those grain credits were
diverted into weaponry; none. None whatsoever. And so I just
have to say it's fine. You can't say there, Governor Clinton,
and say, well, I think I'd have been -- I'd have supported the
minority -- let sanctions work or wish that it would go away --
but I would have voted with the majority. come on, that's not
leadership.
MR. LEHRER: The next question goes to Governor
Clinton, and Gene Gibbons will ask it.
Gene?
MR. GIBBONS: Governor, an important aspect of
leadership is, of course, anticipating problems. During the 1988
campaign, there was little or no mention of the savings and loan
crisis that has cost the American people billions and billions of
dollars. Now there are rumblings that a commercial bank crisis
is on the horizon. Is there such a problem, sir? If so, how bad
is it and what will it cost to clean it up?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Gene, there is a problem in the
sense that there are some problem banks. And on December 19th,
new regulations will go into effect which will, in effect, give
the government the responsibility to close some banks that are
not technically insolvent, but that are plainly in trouble.
on the other hand, I don't think that we have any
reason to believe that the dimensions of this crisis are anywhere
near as great as the savings and loan crisis. The mistake that
both parties made in Washington with the S & L business was
deregulating them without proper capital requirements, proper
oversight and regulation, proper training of the executives, many
people predicted what happened, and it was a disaster.
The banking system in this country is fundamentally
sound with some weak banks. I think that our goal ought to be,
first of all, not to politicize it, not to frighten people;
secondly, to say that we have to enforce the law in two ways. we
don't want to overreact as the federal regulators have, in my
judgment, on good banks so that they created credit crunches
that have made our recession worse in the last couple of years,
but we do want to act prudently with the banks that are in
trouble.
we also want to say that, insofar as is humanly
possible, the banking industry itself should pay for the cost of
any bank failures, the taxpayers should not. And that will be my
policy. And I believe we have a good, balanced approach, we can
get the good banks loaning money again in the credit crunch, have
proper regulation on the ones that are in trouble, and not
overreact. It is a serious problem, but I don't see it as the
kind of terrible, terrible problem that the S & L problem was.
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MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't believe it would be
not sound; it is sound. There are some problem banks out there.
appropriate for a president to suggest that the banking system is
But what we need is financial reform. We need some
real financial reform, banking reform legislation. And I have
proposed that, and when I am reelected I believe one of the first
things ought to be to press a new Congress, not beholden to the
old ways, to pass financial reform legislation that modernizes
the banking system, doesn't put a lot of inhibitions on it, and
protects the depositors through keeping the FDIC sound. But I
think that -- I just was watching some of the proceedings of the
American Bankers Association, and I think the general feeling is,
most of the banks are sound; certainly there's no comparison here
between what happened to the S & LS and where the banks stand
right now, in my view.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, one minute.
MR. PEROT: well, nobody's gotten into the real
issue yet on the savings and loan. Again, nobody's got a
business background, I guess. The whole problem came up in 1984.
The President of the United states was told officially it was a
s20-billion problem.
These crooks -- now, Willie Sutton would have gone
to own a savings and loan rather than rob banks, because -- he
robbed banks because that's where the money is; owning a savings
and loan is where the money was.
Now, in 1984 they were told -- I believe the Vice
President was in charge of deregulation -- nobody touched that
tar baby until the day after election in 1988, because they were
flooding both parties with crooked PAC money. And it was, in
many cases, stolen PAC money. Now, you and I never got a ride on
a lot of these yachts and fancy things it bought, but you and I
are paying for it. And they buried it until right after the
election.
Now, if you believe The Washington Post and you
believe this extensive study that's been done -- and I'm reading
it -- right after election day this year, they' re going to hit us
with 100 banks -- it'll be a s100-billion problem. NOW, if
that's true, just tell me now. I'm grown up. I can deal with
it. I'll pay my share. But just tell me now. Don't bury it
until after the election twice. I say that to both political
parties. The people deserve that since we have to pick up the
tab. You've got the PAC money, we'll pay the ab. Just tell us.
MR. LEHRER: All right. Mr. Perot, the next
question -- we're going into a new round here on a category just
called "differences." And the question goes to you, Mr. Perot,
and Gene will ask it.
Gene?
MR. GIBBONS: Mr. Perot, aside from the deficit,
what government policy or policies do you really want to do
something about? what really sticks in your craw about
conditions in this country -- beside the deficit -- that you
would want to fix as president?
MR. PEROT: The debt and the deficit. Well, if you
watched my television show the other night, you saw it. And if
you watch it Thursday, Friday, Saturday this week, you'll get
more. so, the shameless -- Mr. President -- but in a nutshell,
we've got to reform our government or we won't get anything done.
We have a government that doesn't work. All these specific
examples I'm giving tonight, if you had a business like that,
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they'd be leading you away and boarding up the doors. we have a
government that doesn't work. It's supposed to come from the
people, it comes at the people. The people need to take the
government back.
You've got to reform Congress. They've got to be
servants of the people again. You've got to reform the White
House. We've got to turn this thing around. And it's a long
list of specific items. And I've covered it again and again in
print and on television. But very specifically, the key thing is
to turn the government back to the people and take it away from
the special interests, and have people go to Washington to serve.
who can give themselves a 23 percent pay raise
anywhere in the world except Congress? Who would have 1,200
airplanes worth s2 billion a year just to fly around in? I don't
have a free, reserved parking place at National Airport. Why
should my servants? I don't have an indoor gymnasium and an
indoor tennis court, an indoor every other thing they can think
of. I don't have a place where I can go make free TV to send to
my constituents to try to brainwash them to elect me the next
time. And I'm paying for all that for those guys.
I'm going to be running an ad pretty soon that shows
-- they promised us they were going to hold the line on spending,
a tax and budget -- and I'm going to show how much they've
increased this little stuff they do for themselves. And it is
silly Putty, folks, and the American people have had enough of
it.
Step one, if I get up there, we're going to clean
that up. You say: How can I get Congress to do that? I have
millions of people at my -- shoulder-to-shoulder with me, and we
will see it done warp speed, because it's wrong. We've turned
the country upside-down.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, you have one minute.
(Applause.)
Governor?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I would just point out on the
point that Mr. Perot made, I agree that we need to cut spending
in Congress. I've called for a 25 percent reduction in
congressional staffs and expenditures. But the white House staff
increased its expenditures by considerably more than Congress has
in the last four years under the Bush administration, and
Congress has actually spent $1 billion less than President Bush
asked them to spend. Now, when you outspend Congress, you're
really swinging.
That, however, is not my only passion. The real
problem in this country is that most people are working hard and
falling further behind. MY passion is to pass a jobs program to
get incomes up with an investment incentive program to grow jobs
in the private sector, to waste less public money and invest
more. TO control health care costs and provide for affordable
health care for all Americans, and to make sure we've got the
best trained work force in the world. That is my passion.
We've got to get this country growing again, and
this economy strong again, or we can't bring down the deficit.
Economic growth is the key to the future of this country.
(Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
THE PRESIDENT: On government reform?
MR. LEHRER: sir?
THE PRESIDENT: Government reform?
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MR. LEHRER: Yes, well, to respond to the subject
that Mr. Perot mentioned.
THE PRESIDENT: How about this for a government
reform policy? Reduce the White House staff by a third after, or
at the same time the Congress does the same thing for their
staff. Term limits for members of the United states Congress.
Give the government back to the people. Let's do it that way.
The President has term limits. Let's limit some of these guys
sitting out here tonight. (Applause) Term limits, and then how
about a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution? Forty-
three states -- more than that -- states have it, I believe.
Let's try that.
And you want to do something about all this extra
spending that concerns Mr. Perot and me? Okay, how about a line-
item veto? Forty-three governors have that. And give it to the
President. And if the Congress isn't big enough to do it, let
the President have a shot at this excess spending.
A line-item veto. That means you can take a line
and cut out some of the pork out of a meaningful bill. Governor
Clinton keeps hitting me on vetoing legislation. Well, that's
the only protection the taxpayer has against some of these
reckless pork programs up there. And I'd rather be able to just
line it right out of there and get on about passing some good
stuff, but leave out the garbage. Line-item veto. There's a
good reform program for you. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: The next question gces to Governor
Clinton. You have two minutes, Governor, and sue will ask it.
MS. ROOK: Governor Clinton, you said that you will
raise taxes on the rich people with incomes of $200,000 a year or
higher. A lot of people are saying that you will have to go
lower than that -- much lower. will you make a pledge tonight
below which an income level that you will not go below? I am
looking for numbers, sir, not just a concept.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: My plan -- you can read my plan.
My plan says that we want to raise marginal incomes on family
incomes above $200,000 from 31 percent to 36 percent. That we
want to ask foreign corporations simply to pay the same
percentage of taxes on their income that American corporations
pay in America. That we want to use that money to provide over
$100 million in tax cuts for investment in new plant and
equipment for small business for new technologies and for middle
class tax relief.
Now, I can tell you this: I will not raise taxes on
the middle class to pay for these programs. If the money does
not come in there to pay for these programs, we will cut other
government spending or we will slow down the phase-in to the
programs. I am not going to raise taxes on the middle class to
pay for these programs.
Now, furthermore, I am not going to tell you to read
my lips or anything, because I cannot foresee what emergencies
might develop in this country. And the President said, never,
never, never would he raise taxes. In New Jersey the other day,
Marlin Fitzwater, his spokesman, said, now, that's not a promise.
so I think even he has learned that you can't say read my lips,
because you can't know what emergencies might come up.
But I can tell you this: I'm not going to raise
taxes on middle class Americans to pay for the programs I've
recommended. Read my plan. And you know how you can trust me
about that? Because, you know, in the first debate, Mr. Bush
made some news. He had just said Jim Baker was going to be
Secretary of State, but in the first debate he said, no, now he's
going to be responsible for domestic economic policy.
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Well, I'll tell you: I'll make some news in the
third debate. The person responsible for domestic economic
policy in my administration will be Bill Clinton. I'm going to
make those decisions, and I won't raise taxes in the middle class
to pay for my program. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, you have one minute.
THE PRESIDENT: That's what worries me -- that he's
going to be responsible. (Applause.) And he would do for the
United states what he did for Arkansas. He would do for the
United states what he's done to Arkansas. we do not want to be
the lowest of the low. We are not a nation in decline.
(Applause.) My problem is, I heard what he said. He said I want
to take it from the rich -- raise $150 billion from the rich. To
get it, to get $150 billion in new taxes, you've got to go down
to the guy that's making $36,600. And if you want to pay for the
rest of his plan, all the other spending programs, you're going
to sock it to the working man.
so when you hear "tax the rich," Mr. and Mrs.
America, watch your wallet. Lock your wallet, because he's
coming right after you, just like Jimmy Carter did, and just like
you're going to get -- you're going to end up with interest rates
at 21 percent, and you're going to have inflation going through
the roof. Yes, we're having tough times. But we do not need to
go back to the failed policies of the past when you had a
Democratic president and a spendthrift Democratic Congress.
(Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: You permitted Mr. Bush to break
the rules, he said to defend the honor of the country. what
about the honor of my state? we rank first in the country in job
growth. We've got the lowest spending state and local in the
country and the second lowest tax burden. And the difference
between Arkansas and the United states is that we're going in the
right direction, and this country's going in the wrong direction.
And I had to defend the honor of my state. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: We've got a wash, according to my
calculations. we have a wash. And we'll go to Mr. Perot for one
minute. In other words, the violation of the rule. That's why I
meant.
MR. PEROT: I'm the only one that's untarnished at
this point.
MR. LEHRER: That's right, your clean. (Laughter.)
MR. PEROT: I'm sure I'll do it before it's over.
(Laughter.) The key thing here, see -- we all come up with
images. Images don't fix anything. You know, I'm starting to
understand it. You stay around this long enough, you think about
-- if you talk about it in washington, you think you did it. If
you've been on television about it, you think you did it.
(Laughter.) what we need is people to stop talking and start
doing.
Now, our real problem here is they both have plans
that will not work. The wall Street Journal said your numbers
don't add up. And you can take it out on charts, you look at all
the studies that different groups have done -- you go out four,
five, six years, we're still drifting along with a huge deficit.
so let's come back to harsh reality. Everybody
said, gee, Perot, you're tough. I say, well, this is not as
tough as World war II; this is not as tough as the Revolution.
And it's fair-shared sacrifice to do the right thing for our
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country and for our children. And it will be fun if we all work
together to do it.
MR. LEHRER: This is the last question, and it goes
to President Bush for a two-minute answer. And it will be asked
by Helen.
MS. THOMAS: Mr. President, why have you dropped so
dramatically in the leadership polls, from the high 80s to the
40s? And you have said you will do anything you have to do to
get reelected. what can you do in two weeks to win reelection?
THE PRESIDENT: well, I think the answer to why the
drop I think has been the economy in the doldrums. why I'll win
is I think I have the best plan of the three of us up here to do
something about it. Mine does not grow the government. It does
not invest -- have government invest. It says we need to do
better in terms of stimulating private business.
We've got a big philosophical difference here
tonight between one who thinks the government can do all these
things through tax and spend, and one who thinks it ought to go
the other way.
And so I believe the answer is I'm going to win it
because I'm getting into focus my Agenda for America's Renewal,
and also I think that Governor Clinton's had pretty much of a
free ride on looking specifically at the Arkansas record. He
keeps criticizing us, criticizing me -- I'm the incumbent. Fine.
But he's an incumbent. And we've got to look at all the facts.
They're almost at the bottom on every single category. We can't
do that to the American people.
And then, Helen, really believe where people are
going to ask this question about trust. Because I dc think
there's a pattern by Governor Clinton of saying one : ng to
please one group and then trying to please another group. And I
think that pattern is a dangerous thing to suggest would work for
the oval Office. It doesn't work that way when you're President.
Truman is right -- the buck stops there. And you have to make
decisions, even it's against your own interest.
And I've done that. It's against my political
interests to say, go ahead and go along with the tax increase.
But I did what I thought was right at the time. So I think
people are going to be looking for trust and experience.
And then I mentioned it the other night -- I think
if there's a crisis, people are going to say, well, George Bush
has taken us through some tough crises and we trust him to do
that. And so I'll make the appeal on a wide array of issues.
Also I've got a philosophical difference -- I've got to watch the
clock here -- I don't think we're a declining nation.
The whole world has had economic problems. We're
doing better than a lot of the countries in the world. And we're
going t lead the way out of this economic recession across this
world and economic slowdown here at home.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, do you have one minute.
THE PRESIDENT: That's why I think I'll win.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, you have -- sorry. Excuse
me, sir. Mr. Perot, you have one minute.
MR. PEROT: I'm the last one, right?
MR. LEHRER: No. Governor Clinton has a minute
after you. Then we have the closing statements.
MR. PEROT: One minute after you?
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MR. LEHRER: Right.
MR. PEROT: I'm totally focused on the fact that we
may have bank traders and nobody answered it. I'm totally
focused on that fact that we are still evading the issue of the
Glaspie papers. I'm totally focused on the fact that we still
could have enterprise zones, according to both parties, but we
don't. so I'm still focused on gridlock, I guess.
And I'm also focused on the fact that isn't it a
paradox that we have the highest productivity in our work force
in the industrialized world and at the same time have the largest
trade deficit, and at the same time rank behind nine other
nations in what we pay our most productive people in the world.
And we're losing whole industries overseas. Now, can't somebody
agree with me that the government is breaking business' legs with
these trade agreements? They're breaking business' legs in a
number of different ways. We have an adversarial relationship
that's destroying jobs and sending them overseas while we have
the finest workers in the world.
Keep in mind the factory worker has nothing to do
with anything except putting it together on the factory floor.
It's our obligation to make sure that we give him the finest
products in the world to put together and we don't break his legs
in the process.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I really can't believe Mr. Bush
is still trying to make trust an issue after "read my lips" and
"15 billion new jobs" and embracing what he called "voodoo
economics" and embracing an export enhancing program for farmers
he threatened to veto and going all around the country giving out
money and programs that he once opposed. But the main thing is
he still didn't get it, from what he said the other night to that
fine woman on our program -- the 209 people in Richmond. They
don't want us talking about each other; they want us to talk
about the problems of this country.
I don't think he'll be reelected because trickle-
down economics is a failure and he's offering more of it. And
what he's saying about my program is just not true. Look at the
Republicans that have endorsed me. High-tech executives in
Northern California. Look at the 24 generals and admirals,
retired, have endorsed me, including the Deputy Commander of
Desert Storm. Look at sarah Brady, Jim Brady's wife - President
Reagan's press secretary -- who endorsed me because he knuckled.
under to the NRA and wouldn't fight for the Brady Bill. We've
got a broad based coalition that goes beyond party, because I am
going to change this country and make it better with the help of
the American people. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: All right. That was the final question
and answer, and we now go to the closing statements. Each
candidate will have up to two minutes. The order was determined
by a drawing. Governor Clinten, you are first.
Governor.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: First I'd like to thank the
commission and my opponents for participating in these debates
and making them possible.
I think the real winners of the debates were the
American people. I was especially moved in Richmond a few days
ago when 209 of our fellow citizens got to ask us questions.
They went a long way toward reclaiming this election for the
American people and taking their country back.
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I want to say, since this is the last time I'll be
on a platform with my opponents, that even though I disagree with
Mr. Perot on how fast we can reduce the deficit and how much we
can increase taxes on the middle class, I really respect what
he's done in this campaign to bring the issue of deficit
reduction to our attention. I'd like to say to Mr. Bush, even
though I've got profound differences with him, I do honor his
service to our country. I appreciate his efforts, and I wish him
well. I just believe it's time to change.
-I offer a new approach. It's not trickle-down
economics. It's been tried for 12 years and it's failed. More
people are working harder for less, 100,000 people a month losing
their health insurance, unemployment going up, our economy
slowing down. We can do better.
And it's not tax and spend economics. It's invest
and grow, put our people first, control health care costs and
provide basic health care to all Americans, have an education
system second to none, and revitalize the private economy. That
is my commitment to you. It is a kind of change that can open up
a whole new world of opportunities to America as we enter the
last decade of this century and move toward the 21st century. I
want a country where people who work hard and play by the rules
are rewarded, not punished. I want a country where people are
coming together across the lines of race and region and income.
I know we can do better.
It won't take miracles and it won't happen
overnight. But we can do much, much better if we have the
courage to change. Thank you very much. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, your closing statement,
sir.
THE PRESIDENT: Three weeks from now -- two weeks
from tomorrow, America goes to the polls and you're going to have
to decide who you want to lead this country to economic recovery.
on jobs, that's the number one priority, and I believe my program
for stimulating investment, encouraging small business, brand-
new approach to education, strengthening the American family,
and, yes, creating more exports is the way to CO. I don't
believe in trickle-down government. I don't believe in larger
taxes and larger government spending.
on foreign affairs, some think it's irrelevant. I
believe it's not. we're living in an interconnected world. The
whole world is having economic difficulties. The U.S. is doing
better than a lot. But we've got to do even better. And if a
crisis comes up, I ask who has the judgment and the experience
and, yes, the character to make the right decision?
And lastly, the other night on character, Governor
Clinton said, "It's not the character of the President, but the
character of the presidency." I couldn't disagree more. Horace
Greeley said "The only thing that endures is character." And I
think it was Justice Black who talked about "Great nations like
great men, must keep their word." And so the question is, who
will safeguard this nation, who will safeguard our people and our
children?
I need your support. I ask for your vote. And may
God bless the United States of America. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, your closing statement, sir.
MR. PEROT: To the millions of fine, decent people
who did the unthinkable and took their country back in their own
hands and put me on the ballot, let me pledge to you that tonight
is just the beginning. These next two weeks we will be going
full steam ahead to make sure that you get a voice and that you
get your country back.
- 31 -
This Thursday night on ABC from 8:30 to 9:00 --
Friday night on NBC from 8:00 to 8:30 -- and Saturday night on
CBS from 8:00 to 8:30 -- we'll be down in the trenches, under the
hood, working on fixing the old car to get it back on the road.
(Laughter.)
Now, the question is: Can we win? Absolutely we
can win, because it's your country. The question really is who
do you want in the White House? It's that simple. Now, you've
got to stop letting these people tell you who to vote for.
You've got to stop letting these folks in the press tell you
you're throwing your vote away. You've got to start using your
own head. (Applause.)
Then the question is: Can we govern? I love that
one. The "we" is you and me. You bet your hat we can govern,
because we will be in there together and we will figure out what
to do. And you won't tolerate gridlock. You won't tolerate
endless meandering and wandering around. And you won't tolerate
nonperformance. And believe me, anybody who knows me understands
I have a very low tolerance for nonperformance also. Together we
can get anything done.
The President mentioned that you need the right
person in a crisis. Well, folks, we've got one. And that crisis
is a financial crisis. Pretty simply, who's the best qualified
person up here on the stage to create jobs? Make your decision
and vote on November 3rd. I suggest you might consider somebody
who's created jobs.
Second, who's the best person to manage money? I
suggest you pick a person who's successfully managed money.
Who's the best person to get results and not talk? Look at the
record; make your decision.
And finally, who would you give your pension fund
and your savings account to to manage? And the last one, who
would you ask to be the trustee of your estate and take care of
your children if something happened to you?
Finally, to you students up there -- God bless you
-- I'm doing this for you. I want you to have the American
Dream. (Applause.) And to the American people -- to the
American people, I'm doing this because I love you. That's it.
Thank you very much. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Thank you, Mr. Perot. Thank you, Mr.
President. Thank you, Governor Clinton -- for being with us
tonight and the previous debates. Thank you to the panel.
The only thing that is left to be said is, from
Michigan State University in East Lansing, I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank
you, and good night. (Applause.)
END
8:37 P.M. EDT
#9612
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(St. Louis, Missouri)
For Immediate Release
October 11, 1992
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT,
GOVERNOR BILL CLINTON AND MR. ROSS PEROT
IN FIRST 1992 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE
Field House
Washington University
St. Louis, Missouri
6:03 P.M. CDT
MR. LEHRER: Good evening, and welcome to the first
of three debates among the major candidates for President of the
United States, sponsored by the Commission on Presidential
Debates.
The candidates are independent candidate Ross Perot;
Governor Bill Clinton, the Democratic nominee; and President
George Bush, the Republican nominee.
I am Jim Lehrer of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on
PBS, and I will be the moderator for this 90-minute event, which
is taking place before an audience here in the Athletic Complex
on the campus of Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri.
Three journalists will be asking questions tonight.
They are John Mashek of The Boston Globe; Ann Compton of ABC
News; and Sander Vanocur, a free-lance journalist. We will
follow a format agreed to by representatives of the Clinton and
Bush campaigns. That agreement contains no restrictions on the
content or subject matter of the questions.
Each candidate will have up to two minutes for a
closing statement. The order of those as well as the questioning
was determined by a drawing.
The first question goes to Mr. Perot. He will have
two minutes to answer, to be followed by rebuttals of one minute
each from Governor Clinton and then President Bush.
Gentlemen, good evening. The first topic tonight is
what separates each of you from the other.
Mr. Perot, what do you believe tonight is the single
most important separating issue of this campaign?
MR. PEROT: I think the principal issue that
separates me is that five and a half million people came together
on their own and put me on the ballot. I was not put on the
ballot by either of the two parties. I was not put on the ballot
by any PAC money, by any foreign lobbyist money, by any special
interest money. This is a movement that came from the people.
This is the way the framers of the Constitution intended our
government to be -- a government that comes from the people.
Over time we have developed a government that comes
at the people -- that comes from the top down, where the people
are more or less treated as objects to be programmed during the
campaign, with commercials and media events and fear messages,
and personal attacks and things of that nature.
The thing that separates my candidacy and makes it
unique is that this came from millions of people in 50 states all
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over this country who wanted a candidate that worked and belonged
to nobody but them. I go into this race as their servant, and I
belong to them. So this comes from the people.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one-minute response.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: The most important distinction in
this campaign is that I represent real hope for change: a
departure from trickle-down economics, a departure from tax-and-
spend economics, to invest and growth. But before I can do that
I must challenge the American people to change, and they must
decide.
Tonight I say to the President: Mr. Bush, for 12
years you've had it your way. You've had your chance and it
didn't work. It's time to change. I want to bring that change
to the American people, but we must all decide first we have the
courage to change for hope and a better tomorrow.
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one-minute response,
sir.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I think one thing that
distinguishes is experience. I think we've dramatically changed
the world. I'll talk about that a little bit later, but the
changes are mind-boggling for world peace. Kids go to bed at
night without the same fear of nuclear war. And change for
change sake isn't enough. We saw that message in the late '70s
when we heard a lot about change. And what happened -- that
Misery Index went right through the roof.
But my economic program, I think, is the kind of
change we want. And the way we're going to get it done is we're
going to have a brand-new Congress -- a lot of them are thrown
out because of all the scandals. I'll sit down with them,
Democrats and Republicans alike, and work for my Agenda for
American Renewal, which represents real change.
But I'd say, if you had to separate out, I think
it's experience at this level.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, how do you respond to
the President you have two minutes -- on the question of
experience? He says that is what distinguishes him from the
other two of you.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I believe experience counts, but
it's not everything. Values, judgment and the record that I have
amassed in my state also should count for something. I've worked
hard to create good jobs and to educate people. My state now
ranks first in the country in job growth this year, fourth in
income growth, fourth in the reduction of poverty, third in
overall economic performance, according to a major news magazine.
That's because we believe in investing in education and in jobs.
And we have to change in this country. You know, my
wife, Hillary, gave me a book about a year ago in which the
author defined insanity as just doing the same old thing over and
over again and expecting a different result. We have got to have
the courage to change. Experience, is important, yes. I've
gotten a lot of good experience in dealing with ordinary people
over the last year and a month. I've touched more people's lives
and seen more heartbreak and hope, more pain and more promise,
than anybody else who's run for President this year.
And I think the American people deserve better than
they're getting. We have gone from first to 13th in the world in
wages in the last 12 years, since Mr. Bush and Mr. Reagan have
been in. Personal income has dropped while people have worked
harder in the last four years. There have been twice as many
bankruptcies and new jobs created.
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We need a new approach. The same old experience is
not relevant. We're living in a new world after the Cold War.
And what works in this new world is not trickle-down, not
government for the benefit of the privileged few, not tax-and-
spend, but a commitment to invest in American jobs and American
education. Controlling American health care costs and bringing
the American people together.
That is what works. And you can have the right kind
of experience and the wrong kind of experience. Mine is rooted
in the real lives of real people. And it will bring real results
if we have the courage to change.
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute to respond.
PRESIDENT BUSH: I just thought of another --
another big difference here between me -- I don't believe Mr.
Perot feels this way, but I know Governor Clinton did, because I
want to accurately quote him. He thinks -- I think he said that
"the country is coming apart at the seams." Now, I know that the
only way he can win is to make everybody believe the economy is
worse than it is. But this country's not coming apart at the
seams, for heaven sakes. We're the United States of America.
In spite of the economic problems, we are the most
respected economy around the world. Many would trade for it.
We've been caught up in a global slowdown. We can do much, much
better. But we ought not to try to convince the American people
that America is a country that's coming apart at the seams.
I would hate to be running for President and think
that the only way I could win would be to convince everybody how
horrible things are. Yes, there are big problems. And, yes,
people are hurting. But I believe that this Agenda for American
Renewal I have is the answer to do it. And I believe we can get
it done now, whereas we didn't in the past, because you're going
to have a whole brand-new bunch of people in the Congress that
are going to have to listen to the same American people I'm
listening to.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, a minute response, sir.
MR. PEROT: Well, they've got a point. I don't have
any experience in running up a s4-trillion debt. (Laughter.) I
don't have any experience in gridlocked government where nobody
takes responsibility for anything and everybody blames everybody
else. I don't have any experience in creating the worst public
school system in the industrialized world, the most violent,
crime-ridden society in the industrialized world. But I do have
a lot of the experience in getting things done.
So if we're at a point in history where we want to
stop talking about it and do it, I've got a lot of experience in.
figuring out how to solve problems, making the solutions work,
and then moving on to the next one. I've got a lot of experience
in not taking 10 years to solve a 10-minute problem.
So if it's time for action, I think I have
experience that counts. If it's more time for gridlock and talk
and finger-pointing, I'm the wrong man.
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, the question goes to
you. You have two minutes. And the question is this: Are there
important issues of character separating you from these other two
men?
PRESIDENT BUSH: I think the American people should
be the judge of that. I think character is a very important
question.
I said something the other day where I was accused
of being like Joe McCarthy because I questioned -- put it this
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way -- I think it's wrong to demonstrate against your own country
or organize demonstrations against your own country in foreign
soil. I just think it's wrong.
Maybe, they say, well, it was a youthful
indiscretion. I was 19 or 20, flying off an aircraft carrier,
and that shaped me to be Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces.
And, I'm sorry, but demonstrating it's not a question of
patriotism. It's a question of character and judgment.
They get on me -- Bill's gotten on me about "read my
lips." And I'll make when I make a mistake I'll admit it.
But he has made not admitted the mistake. And I just find it
impossible to understand how an American can demonstrate against
his own country in a foreign land, organizing demonstrations
against it, when young men are held prisoner in Hanoi, or kids
out of the ghetto were drafted.
Some say, well, you're a little old-fashioned.
Maybe I am, but I just don't think that's right. Now, whether
it's character or judgment whatever it is, I have a big
difference here on this issue. And so we'll just have to see how
it plays out. But I couldn't do that. And I don't think most
Americans could do that.
And they all say, well, it was a long time ago.
Well, let's admit it then; say "I made a terrible mistake." How
could you be Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces and have some
kid say -- when you have to make a tough decision, as I did in
Panama or in Kuwait, and then have some kid jump up and say,
well, I'm not going to go. The Commander-in-Chief was organizing
demonstrations halfway around the world during another era?
So there are differences. But that's about the main
area where I think we have a difference. I don't know about
we'll talk about that a little with Ross here in a bit.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, you have one minute.
MR. PEROT: I think the American people will make
their own decisions on character. And at a time when we have
work to do and we need action, I think they need to clearly
understand the backgrounds of each person. I think the press can
play a huge role in making sure that the backgrounds are clearly
presented in an objective way. Then make a decision.
Certainly anyone in the White House should have the
character to be there. But I think it's very important to
measure when and where things occurred. Did they occur when you
were a young person in your formative years, or did they occur
while you were a senior official in the federal government?
When you're a senior official in the federal
government, spending billions of dollars in taxpayers' money and
you're a mature individual and you make a mistake, then that was
on our ticket. If you make it as a young man, time passes.
So I would say just -- look at all three of us,
decide who you think will do the job, pick that person in
November, because, believe me, as I've said before, the party's
over, and it's time for the cleanup crew. And we do have to have
change. And people who never take responsibility for anything
when it happens on their watch, and people who are in charge --
MR. LEHRER: You're time is up.
MR. PEROT: -- the time is up. (Laughter and
applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Time is up.
MR. PEROT: Mare later.
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MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, you have one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Ross gave a good answer, but I've
got to respond directly to Mr. Bush. You have questioned my
patriotism. You even brought some right-wing congressmen into
the White House to plot how to attack me for going to Russia in
1969, 1970, when over 50,000 other Americans did.
Now, I honor your service in World War II. I honor
Mr. Perot's service in uniform and the service of every man and
woman who every served, including Admiral Crowe, who was your
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and who's supporting me.
But when Joe McCarthy went around this country
attacking people's patriotism, he was wrong. He was wrong. And
a Senator from Connecticut stood up to him, named Prescott Bush.
Your father was right to stand up to Joe McCarthy. You were
wrong to attack my patriotism. I was opposed to the war, but I
love my country. And we need a President who will bring this
country together, not divide it. We've had enough division. I
want to lead a unified country. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: All right. We move now to the subject
of taxes and spending. The question goes to Governor Clinton for
a two-minute answer. It will be asked by Ann Compton.
MS. COMPTON: Governor Clinton, can you lock in a
level here tonight on where middle-income families can be
guaranteed a tax cut or, at the very least, at what income level
they can be guaranteed no tax increase?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: The tax increase I have proposed
triggers in at family incomes of $200,000 and above. Those are
the people who, in the 1980s, had their incomes go up while their
taxes went down. Middle class people, defined as people with
incomes of $52,000 and down, had their incomes go down while
their taxes went up in the Reagan-Bush years, because of six
increases in the payroll taxes. so that is where my income limit
would trigger.
MS. COMPTON: So there would be no tax increases
below $200,000?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: My plan, notwithstanding my
opponent's ad, my plan triggers in at gross incomes, family
incomes of $200,000 and above. And then we want to give modest
middle class tax relief to restore some fairness, especially to
middle class people with families with incomes of under $60,000.
In addition to that, the money that I raise from
upper income people and from asking foreign corporations just to
pay the same income on their income earned in American
corporations do will be used to give incentives back to upper
income people. I want to give people permanent incentives on
investment tax credit, like President Kennedy and the Congress
inaugurated in the early '60s to get industry moving again; a
research and development tax credit; a low-income housing tax
credit; a long-term capital gains proposal for new business and
business expansions.
We've got to have no more trickle-down -- we don't
need across-the-board tax cuts for the wealthy for nothing, we
need to say, here's your tax incentive if you create American
jobs the old-fashioned way.
I'd like to create more millionaires than were
created under Mr. Bush and Mr. Reagan, but I don't want to have
four years where we have no growth in the private sector. And
that's what's happened in the last four years. We're down 35,000
jobs in the private sector. We need to invest and grow, and
that's what I want to do.
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MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute, sir.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Let me -- I have to correct one
thing. I didn't question the man's patriotism, I questioned his
judgment and his character. What he did in Moscow, that's fine.
Let him explain it; he did. I accept that. What I don't accept
is demonstrating and organizing demonstrations in a foreign
country when your country's at war. I'm sorry, I cannot accept
that.
In terms of -- this one on taxes spells out the
biggest difference between us. I do not believe we need to go
back to the Mondale proposals or the Dukakis proposals of tax-
and-spend.
Governor Clinton says $200,000, but he also says he
wants to raise $150 billion. Taxing people over $200,000 will
not get you $150 billion. And then when you add in his other
spending proposals, regrettably, you end up socking it to the
working man.
That old adage that they use we're going to soak
the rich, we're going to soak the rich -- it always ends up being
the poor cab driver or the working man that ends up paying the
bill. And so I just have a different approach. I believe the
way to get the deficit down is to control the growth of mandatory
spending programs, and not raise taxes on the American people.
We've got a big difference there. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, one minute.
MR. PEROT: We've got to have a growing, expanding
job base to give us a growing, expanding tax base. Right now, we
have a flat-to-deteriorating job base, and where it appears to be
growing is minimum-wage jobs. so we've got to really rebuild our
job base. That's going to take money for infrastructure
investment to do that. Our foreign competitors are doing it;
we're not.
We cannot pay off the $4-trillion debt, balance the
budget and have the industries of the future and the high-paying
jobs in this country without having the revenue. We're going to
go through a period of shared sacrifice. There's one challenge
-- it's got to be fair.
We've created a mess and don't have much to show for
it, and we have got to fix it. And that's about all I can say in
a minute. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Okay. Next question goes to President
Bush for a two-minute answer, and it will be asked by Sandy
Vanocur.
MR. VANOCUR: Mr. President, this past week your
Secretary of the Army Michael Stone said he had no plans to abide
by a congressional mandate to cut U.S. forces in Europe from
150,000 to 100,000 by the end of September, 1996, Now, why,
almost 50 years after the end of World War II and with the total
collapse of the Soviet Union, should American taxpayers be taxed,
support armies in Europe, when the Europeans have plenty of money
to do it for themselves?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, Sander, that's a good
question. And the answer is, for 40-some years, we kept the
peace. If you look at the cost of not keeping the peace in
Europe, it would be exorbitant. We have reduced the number of
troops that are deployed and going to be deployed. I have cut
defense spending.
And the reason we could do that is because of our
fantastic success in winning the Cold War. We never would have
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got there if we'd gone for the nuclear freeze crowd; never would
have got there 1f we'd listened to those that wanted to cut
defense spending. I think it is important that the United States
stay in Europe and continue to guarantee the peace. We simply
cannot pull back.
Now, when anybody has a spending program they want
to spend money on at home, they say, well, let's cut money out of
the Defense Department. I will accept and have accepted the
recommendations of two proven leaders, General Colin Powell and
Dick -- Secretary Dick Cheney. They feel that the levels we're
operating at and the reductions that I have proposed are proper.
And so I simply do not think we should back to the isolation days
and start blaming foreigners.
We are the sole remaining superpower. And we should
be that. And we have a certain disproportionate responsibility.
But I would ask the American people to understand that if we make
imprudent cuts, if we go too far, we risk the peace. And I don't
want to do that. I've seen what it is like to see a war -- to
see the burdens of a war, and I don't want to see us make
reckless cuts.
Because of our programs, we have been able to
significantly cut defense spending. But let's not cut into the
muscle. And let's not cut down our insurance policy, which is
participation of American forces in NATO, the greatest
peacekeeping organization every made.
Today, you've got problems in Europe -- still
bubbling along, even though Europe's going democracy's route.
But we are there. And I think this insurance policy is
necessary. I think it goes with world leadership. And I think
the levels we've come up with are just about right.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, one minute, sir.
MR. PEROT: If I'm poor and you're rich, and I can
get you to defend me, that's good. But when the tables get
turned, I ought to do my share. Right now we spend about $300
billion a year on defense. The Japanese spend around $30 billion
in Asia. The Germans spend around $30 billion in Europe.
For example, Germany will spend a trillion dollars
building infrastructure over the next 10 years. It's kind of
easy to do if you only have to pick up a $30-billion tab to
defend your country. The European Community is in a position to
pay a lot more than they have in the past. I agree with the
President, when they couldn't, we should have; now that they can,
they should.
We sort of seem to have a desire to try stay over
there and control it. They don't want us to control it, very
candidly. So I think it's very important for us to let them
assume more and more of the burden, and for us to bring that
money back here and rebuild our infrastructure. Because we can
only be a superpower if we are an economic superpower, and we can
only be an economic superpower if we have a growing, expanding
job base. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute, sir.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I agree with the general
statement Mr. Bush made. I disagree that we need a 150,000
troops to fulfill our role in Europe. We certainly must maintain
an engagement there. There are certainly dangers there. There
are certainly other trouble spots in the world which are closer
to Europe than to the United States. But two former Defense
Secretaries recently issued reports saying that 100,000 or
slightly fewer troops would be enough, including President
Reagan's former defense secretary, Mr. Carlucci. Many of the
military experts whom I consulted on this agreed.
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We're going to have to spend more money in, the
future on military technology and on greater mobility, greater
airlift, greater sealift, the B-22 airplane. We're going to have
to do some things that are quite costly, and I simply don't
believe we can afford, nor do we need to keep 150,000 troops in
Europe, given how much the Red Army, now under the control of
Russia, has been cut; the arms control agreement concluded
between Mr. Bush and Mr. Yeltsin -- something I have applauded.
I don't think we need 150,000 troops.
Let me make one other point. Mr. Bush talked about
taxes. He didn't tell you that he vetoed a middle class tax cut
because it would be paid for by raising taxes on the wealthy and
vetoed an investment tax credit paid for by raising taxes on the
wealthy.
MR. LEHRER: All right. We go now to Mr. Perot for
a two-minute question, and it will be asked by John Mashek.
MR. MASHEK: Mr. Perot, you talked about fairness
just a minute ago, on sharing the pain. As part of your plan to
reduce the ballooning federal deficit, you've suggested that we
raise gasoline taxes 50 cents a gallon over five years. Why
punish the middle class consumer to such a degree?
MR. PEROT: It's 10 cents a year, cumulative. It
finally gets to 50 cents at the end of the fifth year. I think
"punish" is the wrong word. Again, you see, I didn't create this
problem; we're trying to solve it.
Now, if you study our international competitors,
some of our international competitors collect up to $3.50 a
gallon in taxes. And they use that money to build infrastructure
and create jobs. We collect 35 cents and we don't have it to
spend. I know it's not popular. And I understand the nature of
your question. But the people who will be helped the most by it
are the working people who will get the jobs created because of
this tax.
Why do we have to do it? Because we have so
mismanaged our country over the years, and it is now time to pay
the fiddler. And if we don't, we will be spending our children's
money. We have spent $4 trillion worth. An incredible number of
young people are active in supporting my effort because they're
deeply concerned that we have taken the American Dream from them.
I think it's fitting that we're on the campus of a
university tonight. These young people, when they get out of
this wonderful university, will have difficulty finding a job.
We've got to clean this mess up, leave this country in good shape
and pass on the American Dream to them. We've got to collect the
taxes to do it. If there's a fairer way, I'm all ears. Ahh.
(Laughter and applause.)
But, see -- let me make it very clear. People don't
have the stomach to fix these problems, I think it's a good time
to face it in November. If they do, then they will have heard
the harsh reality of what we have to do. I'm not playing
Lawrence Welk music tonight.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, you have a minute,
sir.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I think Mr. Perot has confronted
this deficit issue, but I think it's important to point out that
we really have two deficits in America, not one. We have a
budget deficit in the federal government, but we also have an
investment, a jobs, an income deficit.
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People are working harder for less money than they
were making 10 years ago -- two-thirds of our people. A $1,600
drop in average income in just the last two years. The problem I
have with the Perot prescription is that almost all economists
who have looked at it say that if you cut the deficit this much
this quick, it will increase unemployment, it will slow down the
economy. That's why I think we shouldn't do it that quickly.
We have a disciplined reduction in the deficit of 50
percent over the next four years. But first, get incentives to
invest in this economy, put the American people back to work.
We've got to invest in growth. Nine Nobel Prize winning
economists and 500 others, including numerous Republican and
Democratic business executives, have endorsed this approach
because it offers the best hope to put America back to work and
get our incomes rising instead of falling.
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute, sir.
PRESIDENT BUSH: The question was on fairness. I
just disagree with Mr. Perot. I don't believe it is fair to slap
a 50-cent-a-gallon tax over whatever many years on the people
that have to drive for a living, people that go long distances.
I don't think we need to do it.
You see, I have a fundamental difference. I agree
with what he's talking about in trying to get the spending down
and to discipline, although I think we ought to totally exempt
Social Security. But he's talking tough medicine and I think
that's good. I disagree with the tax-and-spend philosophy. You
see, I don't think we need to tax more and spend more and then
say that's going to make the problem better. And I'm afraid
that's what I think I'm hearing from Governor Clinton.
I believe what you need to do is some of what Ross
is talking about -- control the growth of mandatory spending and
get taxes down. He's mentioned some ways to do it, and I agree
with those. I've been talking about getting a capital gains cut
forever. And his friends in Congress have been telling me that's
a tax break for the rich that would stimulate investment. I'm
for an investment tax allowance. I am for a first-time -- a tax
break for first-time homebuyers. And with this new Congress
coming in, gridlock will be gone and I'll sit down with them and
say, let's get this done. But I do not want to go the tax-and-
spend route.
MR. LEHRER: All right. Let's move on now to the
subject of jobs. The first question goes to President Bush for
two minutes, and John will ask that question.
John?
MR. MASHEK: Mr. President, last month you came to
St. Louis to announce a very lucrative contract for McDonnell
Douglas to build F-15s for Saudia Arabia. In today's Post-
Dispatch, a retired saleswoman, a 75-year-old woman named
Marjorie Roberts, asked if she could ask a question of the
candidates; said she wanted to register her concern about the
lack of a plan to convert our defense-oriented industries into
other purposes. How would you answer her?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I assume she was supportive
of the decision on McDonnell Douglas. I assume she was
supporting me on the decision to sell those airplanes. I think
it's a good decision. I took a little heat for it, but I think
it was the correct decision to do. And we've worked it out and,
indeed, we're moving forward all around the world in a much more
peaceful way. So that one we came away with which -- in creating
jobs for the American people.
I would simply say to her, look, take a look at what
the President has proposed on job retraining. When you cut back
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on defense spending, some people are going to be thrown out of
work. If you throw another 50,000 kids on the street because of
cutting recklessly in troop levels, you're going to put a lot
more out of work.
I would say to them, look at the job retraining
programs that we're proposing. Therein is the best answer to
her. And another one is, stimulate investment and savings. I
mean, we've got big economic problems, but we are not coming
apart at the seams. We're ready for a recovery with interest
rates down and inflation down -- the cruelest tax of all --
caught up in a global slowdown right now, but that will change if
you go with the programs I've talked about and if you help with
job retraining and education.
I am a firm believer that our America 2000 education
problem is the answer. It's a little longer run; it's going to
take a while to educate, but it is a good program. So her best
hope for short term is job retraining if she was thrown out of
work at a defense plant. But tell her it's not all that gloomy.
We're the United States. We've faced tough problems before.
Look at the Misery Index when the Democrats had both the White
House and the Congress. It was just right through the roof.
Now, we can do better. And the way to do better is
not to tax-and-spend, but to retrain, get that control of the
mandatory spending programs. I am much more optimistic about
this country than some. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, you have one minute, sir.
MR. PEROT: Your defense industries are going to
have to convert to civilian industries; many of them are. And
the sooner they start, the sooner they'll finish. And there will
be a significant transition.
And it's very important that we not continue to let
our industrial base deteriorate. We had someone who I'm sure
regrets said it in the President's staff -- said he didn't care
whether we make potato chips or computer chips. Well, anybody
that thinks about it cares a great deal. Number one, you make
more making computer chips than you do potato chips. Number two,
19 out of 20 computer chips that we have in this country now come
from Japan. We've given away whole industries.
So as we phase these industries over, there's a lot
of intellectual talent in these industries. A lot of these
people in industries can be converted to the industries of
tomorrow. And that's where the high-paying jobs are. We need to
have a very carefully thought-through phaseover.
See, we practice 19th century capitalism. The rest
of the world practices 21st century capitalism. We've got to --
I can't handled that in a minute, but I hope we can get back into
it later. The rest of the world, the countries and the
businesses would be working together to make this transition in
an intelligent way.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, you have one minute,
sir.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: We must -- we must have a
transition plan, a plan to convert from a defense to a domestic
economy. No other nation would have cut defense as much as we
already have without that. There are 200,000 people unemployed
in California alone because we have cut defense without planning
to retrain them and to reinvest in the technologies of the future
here at home. That is what I want to do.
This administration may say they have a plan, but
the truth is they have not even released all the money, the
paltry sum of money that Congress appropriated. I want to take
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every dollar by which we reduced defense and reinvest it in
technologies for the 21st century. In new transportation, in
communication and environmental cleanup technologies. Let's put
the American people to work. And let's build the kind of high-
tech, high-wage, high-growth economy that the American people
deserve.
MR. LEHRER: All right. The next question goes to
Mr. Perot for a two-minute answer. It will be asked by Ann.
Ann.
MS. COMPTON: Mr. Perot, you talked a minute ago
about rebuilding the job base. But is it true what Governor
Clinton just said, that that means that unemployment will
increase, that it will slow the economy? And how would you
specifically use the powers of the presidency to get more people
back into good jobs immediately?
MR. PEROT: Step one: The American people send me
up there, the day after election, I'll get with the -- we won't
even wait until inauguration. I'll ask the President to help me,
and I'll ask his staff to help me. And we will start putting
together teams to put together -- to take all the plans that
exist and do something with them.
Please understand, they're great plan lying all over
Washington nobody ever executes. It's like having a blueprint
for a house you never built. You don't have anywhere to sleep.
Now, our challenge is to take these things, do something with
them.
Step one: You want to put America back to work --
clean up the small business problem. Have one task force at work
on that. The second: You've got your big companies that are in
trouble, including the defense industries -- have another one on
that. Have a third task force on new industries of the future to
make sure we nail those for our country and they don't wind up in
Europe and Asia. Convert from 19th to 21st century capitalism.
You see, we have an adversarial relationship between
government and business. Our international competitors that are
cleaning our plate have an intelligent relationship between
government and business and a supportive relationship.
Then, have another task force on crime, because next
to jobs, our people are concerned about their safety. Health
care, schools, one on the debt and deficit. And finally, in that
90-day period before the inauguration, put together the framework
for the town hall and give the American people a Christmas
present -- show them by Christmas the first cut at these plans.
By the time Congress comes into session to go to work, have those
plans ready to go in front of Congress. Then get off to a flying
start in '93 to execute these plans.
Now, there are people in this room and people on
this stage who have been in meetings when I would sit there and
say, is this one we're going to talk about or do something about?
Well, obviously, my orientation is let's go do it.
NOW, put together your plans by Christmas. Be ready
to go when Congress goes. Nail these things -- small business,
you've got to have capital; you've got have credit, and many of
them need mentors or coaches. And we can create more jobs there
in a hurry than any other place. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: This country desperately needs a
jobs program. And my first priority would be to pass a jobs
program, to introduce it on the first day I was inaugurated. I
would meet with the leaders of the Congress, with all the newly-
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elected members of the Congress, and as many others with whom I
could meet between the time of the election and the inauguration.
And we would present a jobs program.
And then we would present a plan to control health
care costs and phase in health care coverage for all Americans.
Until we control health care costs, we're not going to control
the deficit. It is the number-one culprit. But first we must
have an aggressive jobs program.
I live in a state where manufacturing job growth has
far outpaced the nation in the last few years; where we have
created more private sector jobs since Mr. Bush has been
President than have been created in the entire rest of the
country, where Mr. Bush's Labor Secretary said the job growth has
been enormous. We've done it Arkansas. Give me a chance to
create these kind of jobs in America. We can do it. I know we
can. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, we've got a plan announced
for what we can do for small business. I've already put forward
things that will get this country working fast, some of which
have been echoed here tonight -- investment tax allowance,
capital gains reduction, more on research and development, a tax
credit for first-time homebuyers.
What I'm going to do is say to Jim Baker when this
campaign is over all right, let's sit down now. You do in
domestic affairs what you've done in foreign affairs -- be the
kind of economic coordinator of all the domestic side of the
House -- and that includes all the economic side, all the
training side and bring this program together. We're going to
have a new Congress. And we're going to say to them, you've
listened to the voters the way we have. Nobody wants gridlock
anymore. And so let's get the program through.
And I believe it will work, because, as Ross said,
we've got the plans. The plans are all over Washington. And I
have put ours together in something called the Agenda for
American Renewal. And it makes sense. It's sensible. It
creates jobs. It gets to the base of the kind of jobs we need.
And so I'll just be asking for support to get that put into
effect.
MR. LEHRER: The next question goes to Governor
Clinton for two minutes. It will be asked by Sandy.
MR. VANOCUR: Governor Clinton, when a President
running for the first time gets into the office and wants to do
something about the economy, he finds in Washington there's a
person who has much more power over the economy than he does --
the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, accountable to no one.
That being the case, would you go along with proposals made by
Treasury Secretary James Brady and Congressman Lee Hamilton to
make the Federal Reserve Board Chairman somehow more accountable
to elected officials?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Well, let me say that I think
that we might ought to review the terms in the way it works.
But, frankly, I don't think that's the problem today. We have
low interest rates today. At least we have low interest rates
that the Fed can control. Our long-term interest rates are still
pretty high because of our deficit and because of our economic
performance.
And there was a terrible reaction internationally to
Mr. Bush saying he was going to give us four more years of
trickle-down economics and other -- across-the-board tax cut and
most of it going to the wealthy with no real guarantee of
investment.
13
But I think the important thing -- the important
thing is to use the powers the President does have on the
assumption that given the condition of this economy, we're going
to keep interest rates down if we have the discipline to increase
investment and reduce the debt at the same time. That is my
commitment.
I think the American people are hungry for action.
I think Congress is hungry for someone who will work with them,
instead of manipulate them; someone who will not veto a bill that
has an investment credit, middle class tax relief, research and
development tax credit, as Mr. Bush has done. Give me a chance
to do that.
I don't have to worry, I don't think, in the near
term, about the Federal Reserve. Their policies so far, it seems
to me, are pretty sound.
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, you have one minute.
PRESIDENT BUSH: I don't think the Fed ought to be
put under the Executive Branch. There is separation there. I
think that's fine. Alan Greenspan is respected. I've had some
arguments with him about the speed in which we might have lowered
rates.
But Governor Clinton -- he talks about the reaction
to the markets. There was a momentary fear that he might win,
and the markets went rrrfft -- down like that -- (laughter and
applause) -- so I don't we can judge on -- the stock market has
been strong. It's been very strong since I've been President.
And they recognize we've got great difficulties. But they're
also much more optimistic than the pessimists we have up here
tonight.
In terms of vetoing tax bills, you're darn right. I
am going to protect the American taxpayer against the spend-and-
tax Congress. And I'm going to keep on vetoing them because I
don't think we are taxed too little. I think the government's
spending too much.
so Governor Clinton can label it tax for the rich or
anything he wants. I'm going to protect the working man by
continuing to veto and to threaten veto -- until we get this new
Congress, when then we're going to move forward on our plan.
I've got to protect them.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, one minute.
MR. PEROT: Keep the Federal Reserve independent,
but let's live in a world of reality. We live in a global
economy, not a national economy. These interest rates we have
now don't make any sense. We have a $4-trillion debt, and only
in American would you finance 70 percent of it five years or
less. So 70 percent of our debt is five years or less, it's very
intrasensitive.
We have a four-percent gap between what we pay for
treasuries and what Germany pays for one to five-year treasuries.
That gap is going to close because the Arabs, the Japanese and
folks in this country are going to start buying German treasuries
because they can get more money.
Every time our interest rates go up one percent,
that adds $28 billion to the deficit or to the debt, whichever
place you want to put it. We are sitting on a ticking bomb,
folks, because we have totally mismanaged our country. And we
had better get it back under control.
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Just think, in your own business, if you had all of
your long-term problems financed short term, you'd go broke in a
hurry. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: We're going to move to foreign affairs.
The first question goes to Mr. Perot for a two-minute answer, and
Sandy will ask it.
MR. VANOCUR: Mr. Perot, in the post-Cold War
environment, what should be the overriding U.S. national
interest? And what can the United States do, and what can it
afford to do to defend that national interest?
MR. PEROT: Again, if you're not rich, you're not a
superpower, so we have two that I'd put as number one. I have a
one and 1a. One is, we've got to have the money to be able to
pay for defense. And we've got to manufacture here. Believe it
or not, folks, you can't ship it overseas. You've got to make it
here. And you can't convert from potato chips to airplanes in an
emergency. You see, Willow Run could be converted from cars to
airplanes in World War II because it was here. We're got to make
things here. You just can't ship them overseas anymore. I hope
we talk more about that.
second thing, on priorities, we've got to help
Russia succeed in its revolution and all of its republics. When
we think of Russia, remember we're thinking of many countries
now. We've got to help them. That's pennies on the dollar
compared to renewing the Cold War.
Third, we've got all kinds of agreements on paper
and some that are being executed on getting rid of nuclear
warheads. Russia and its republics are out of control or, at
best, in weak control right now. It's a very unstable situation.
You've got every rich Middle Eastern country over there trying to
buy nuclear weapons, as you well know. And that will lead to
another five-star migraine headache down the road.
We really need to nail down the intercontinental
ballistic missiles, the ones that can hit us from Russia. We've
focused on the tactical, we've made some real progress there.
We've got some agreements on the nuclear, but we don't have those
thing put away yet. The sooner, the better.
So in terms of priorities, we've got to be
financially strong. Number two, we've got to take care of this
missile situation and try to get the nuclear war behind us and
give that a very high priority. And number three, we need to
help and support Russia and the republics in every possible way
to become democratic, capitalistic societies and not just sit
back and let those countries continue in turmoil, because they
could go back worse than things used to be; and, believe me,
there are a lot of old boys in the KGB and the military that like
it better the way it used to be. Thank you.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: In order to keep America the
strongest nation in the world, we need some continuity and some
change. There are three fundamental challenges. First of all,
the world is still a dangerous and uncertain place. We need a
new military and a new national security policy equal to the
challenges of the post-Cold War era; a smaller permanent military
force, but one that is more mobil, well-trained with high
technology equipment. We need to continue the negotiations to
reduce nuclear arsenals in the Soviet Union, the former Soviet
Union and the United States. We need to stop this proliferation
of weapons of mass destruction.
Second, we have to face that, in this world,
economic security is a whole lot of national security. Our
dollar is at an all-time low against some foreign currencies.
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We're weak in the world. We must rebuild America's strength at
home.
And finally, we ought to be promoting the democratic
impulses around the world. Democracies are our partners; they
don't go to war with each other. They're reliable friends in the
future. National security, economic strength, democracy.
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
PRESIDENT BUSH: We still are the envy of the world
in terms of our military; there's no question about that. We're
the envy of the world in terms of our economy, in spite of the
difficulties we're having; there's no question about that. Our
exports are dramatically up.
I might say to Mr. Perot, I can understand why you
might have missed it because there's so much fascination by
trivia, but I worked out a deal with Boris Yeltsin to eliminate,
get rid of entirely the most destabilizing weapons of all -- the
SS-18, the big intercontinental ballistic missile. I mean,
that's been done. And thank God it has, because the parents of
these young people around here go to bed at night without the
same fear of nuclear war. (Applause.) We've made dramatic
progress.
And so we've got a good military. The question that
says get a new military, get the best in the world; we've got it,
and they're keeping the peace. And they're respected around the
world. And we are more respected because of the way we have
conducted ourselves.
We didn't listen to the nuclear freeze crowd. We
said peace through strength, and it worked, and the Cold War is
over. And America understands that. But we're turned so inward
we don't understand the global picture. And we are helping
democracy. Ross, the Freedom Support Act is something that I got
through the Congress and it's a very good thing, because it does
exactly what you say -- and I think you agree with that -- to
help Russian democracy. And we're going to keep on doing that.
MR. LEHRER: All right. Next question is for
Governor Clinton, and John will ask it.
MR. MASHEK: Governor Clinton, you've accused the
President of coddling tyrants, including those in Beijing. As
President, how would you exert U.S. power to influence affairs in
China?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I think our relationships with
China are important and I don't think we want to isolate China.
But I think it is a mistake for us to do what this administration
did when all those kids went out there carrying the Statue of
Liberty in Tiananmen Square, and Mr. Bush sent two people in
secret to toast the Chinese leaders and basically tell them not
to worry about it.
They rewarded him by opening negotiations with Iran
to transfer nuclear technology. That was their response to that
sort of action.
Now that voices in the Congress and throughout the
country have insisted that we do something about China, look what
has happened. China has finally agreed to stop sending us
products made with prison labor not because we coddled them, but
because the administration was pushed into doing something about.
And recently the Chinese have announced that they're going to
lower some barriers to our products, which they ought to do since
they have a s15-billion trade surplus with the United States
under Mr. Bush, the second biggest surplus of all, second to
Japan.
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So I would be firm. I would say, if you want to
continue Most Favored Nation status for your government-owned
industries as well as your private ones, observe human rights in
the future. Open your society. Recognize the legitimacy of
those kids that were carrying the Statue of Liberty. If we can
stand up for our economic interests, we ought to be able to
pursue the democratic interests of the people in China, and over
the long run they' be more reliable partners. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, you have one minute.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, the administration was the
first major country to stand up against the abuse in Tiananmen
Square. We are the ones that worked out the prison labor deal.
We are the ones that have lowered the barrier to products, the
Carla Hills negotiation. I am the one that said, let's keep the
MFN, because you see China moving toward a free market economy.
To do what the Congress and Governor Clinton are
suggesting, you would isolate and ruin Hong Kong. They are
making some progress -- not enough for us. We were the first
ones to put sanctions on. We still have them on some things.
But Governor Clinton's philosophy is isolate them.
He says don't do it, but the policies he's expounding of putting
conditions on MFN and kind of humiliating them is not the way you
make the kind of progress we are getting. And I have stood up
with these people, and I understand what you have to do to be
strong in this situation; and it's moving. Not as fast as we'd
like. But you isolate China and turn them inward, and then we've
made a tremendous mistake.
And I'm not going to do it. And I've had to fight a
lot of people that were saying human rights. And we are the ones
that put the sanctions on and stood for it. And he can insult
General Scowcroft if he wants to. He didn't go over to coddle,
he went over to say --
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, you're over --
PRESIDENT BUSH: -- you must make the very changes
they're making now. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: One minute, Mr. Perot.
MR. PEROT: It's a huge -- China's a huge country,
broken into many provinces. It has some very elderly leaders
that will not be around too much longer. Capitalism is growing
and thriving across big portions of China. Asia will be our
largest trading partner in the future. It will be a growing and
a closer relationship. We have a delicate tight-wire walk that
we must go through at the present time to make sure that we do
not cozy up to tyrants, to make sure that they don't get the
impression that they can suppress their people.
But time is our friend there, because their leaders
will change in not too many years -- worst case. And their
country is making great progress.
One last point on the missiles. I don't want the
American people to be confused. We have written agreements and
we have some missiles that have been destroyed, but we have a
huge number of intercontinental ballistic missiles that are still
in place in Russia. The fact that you have an agreement is one
thing. Until they're destroyed, some crazy person can either
sell them or use them.
MR. LEHRER: All right. The next question goes to
President Bush for a two-minute answer. And Ann will ask it.
MS. COMPTON: Mr. President, how can you watch the
killing in Bosnia and the ethnic cleansing, or the starvation and
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anarchy in Somalia and not want to use America's might if not
America's military to try to end that kind of suffering?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Ann, both of them are very
complicated situations. And I vowed something, because I learned
something from Vietnam -- I am not going to commit U.S. forces
until I know what the mission is, until the military tell me that
it can be completed, until I know how they can come out.
We are helping. American airplanes are helping
today on humanitarian relief for Sarajevo. It is America that's
in the lead in helping with humanitarian relief for Somalia. But
when you go to put somebody else's son or daughter into war, I
think you've got to be a little bit careful, and you have to be
sure that there's a military plan that can do this.
You have ancient ethnic rivalries that have cropped
up as Yugoslavia is dissolved or getting dissolved. And it isn't
going to be solved by sending in the 82nd Airborne. And I'm not
going to do that as Commander-in-Chief. I am going to stand by
and use the moral persuasion of the United States to get
satisfaction in terms of prison camps -- and we're making some
progress there; and in terms of getting humanitarian relief in
there.
And right now, as you know, the United States took
the lead in a no-fly operation up there in -- no-fly order up in
the United Nations. We're working through the international
organizations. The United -- that's one thing I learned by
forging that tremendous and greatly -- highly successful
coalition against Saddam Hussein, the dictator: use -- work
internationally to do it. I'm very concerned about it. I'm
concerned about ethnic cleansing. I'm concerned about a tax on
Muslims, for example, over there. But I must stop short of using
American force until I now how those young men and women are
going to get out of there as well as get in, know what the
mission is, and define it. And I think I'm on the right track.
MS. COMPTON: Are you designing a mission that would
MR. LEHRER: Ann, sorry -- sorry. Time is up. We
have to Mr. Perot for a one-minute response.
MR. PEROT: If we learned anything in Vietnam, it's
you first commit this nation before you commit the troops to the
battlefield. We cannot send our people all over the world to
solve every problem that comes up.
This is basically a problem that is a primary
concern to the European Community. Certainly we care about the
people. We care about the children. We care about the tragedy.
But it is inappropriate for us, just because there's a problem
somewhere around the world to take the sons and daughters of
working people -- and make no mistake about it, our all-
volunteer armed force is not made up of the sons and daughters of
beautiful people -- it's the working folks that send their sons
and daughters to war, with a few exceptions. Very unlike World
War II when FDR's sons flew missions. Everybody went. It's a
different world now. It's very important that we not just,
without thinking it through, just rush to every problem in the
world and have our people torn to pieces.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I agree that we cannot commit
ground forces to become involved in the quagmire of Bosnia or in
the tribal wars of Somalia. But I think that it's important to
recognize that there are things that can be done short of that
and that we do have interests there. There are, after all, two
million refugees now because of the problems in once what was
Yugoslavia, the largest number since World War II. And there may
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be hundreds of thousands of people who will starve or freeze to
death in this winter.
The United States should try to work with its allies
and stop it. I urged the President to support this air cover,
and he did, and I applaud that. I applaud the no-fly zone and I
know that he's going back to the United Nations to try to get
authority to enforce it. I think we should step on the embargo
on the Belgrade government. And I think we have to consider
whether or not we should lift the arms embargo now on the
Bosnians, since they are no way in a fair fight with a heavily
armed opponent bent on ethnic cleansing. We can't get involved
in the quagmire, but we must do what we can.
MR. LEHRER: All right. Moving on now to divisions
in our country. The first question goes to Governor Clinton for
two minutes, and Ann will ask it.
MS. COMPTON: Governor Clinton, can you tell us what
your definition of the word "family" is?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: A family involves at least one
parent, whether natural or adoptive or foster, and children. A
good family is a place where love and discipline and good values
are transmuted from the elders to the children; a place where
people turn for refuge and where they know they'r the most
important people in the world.
America has a lot of families that are in trouble
today. There's been a lot of talk about family values in this
campaign. I know a lot about that. I was born to a widowed
mother who gave me family values; and grandparents. I've seen
the family values of my people in Arkansas. I've seen the family
values of all these people in America who are out there killing
themselves, working harder for less, in a country that's had the
worst economic years in 50 years and the first decline in
industrial production ever.
I think the President owes it to family values to
show that he values America's families. Whether they're people
on welfare -- you're trying to move from welfare to work; the
working poor whom I think deserve a tax break to lift them above
poverty if they've got a child in the house and working 40 hours
a week; working families who deserve a fair tax system and the
opportunity for constant retraining, they deserve a strong
economy. And I think they deserve a family and medical leave
act. Seventy-two other nations have been able to do it. Mr.
Bush vetoed it twice because he says we can't do something 72
other countries do, even though there was a small business
exemption.
So with all the talk about family values, I know
about family values. I wouldn't be here without them. The best
expression of my family values is that tonight's my 17th wedding
anniversary, and I'd like to close my question by just wishing my
wife a happy anniversary, and thanking my daughter for being
here. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I would say that one meeting
that made a profound impression on me was when the mayors of the
big cities, including the Mayor of Los Angeles, a Democrat, came
to see me, and they unanimously said the decline in urban America
stems from the decline in the American family. So I do think we
need to strengthen family. When Barbara holds an AIDS baby,
she's showing a certain compassion for family. When she reads to
children, the same thing.
I believe that discipline and respect for the law --
all of these things should be taught to children -- not in our
schools, but families have to do that. I'm appalled at the high
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-- outrageous numbers of divorces. It's happened in families;
it's happened in ours. But it's gotten too much. And I just
think that we ought to do everything we can to respect the
American family. It can be a single-parent family. Those
mothers need help. And one way to do it is to get these deadbeat
fathers to pay their obligations to these mothers. That will
help strengthen the American family. And there's a whole bunch
of other things that I can't click off in this short period of
time.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, you have one minute.
MR. PEROT: If I had to solve all the problems that
face this country and I could be granted one wish as we started
down the trail to rebuild the job base, the schools and so on and
so forth, I would say a strong family unit in every home; where
every child is loved, nurtured and encouraged.
A little child, before they're 18 months, learns to
think well of himself or herself, or poorly. They develop a
positive or negative self-image. At a very early age, they learn
how to learn. If we have children who are not surrounded with
love and affection -- see, I look at my grandchildren and wonder
if they'll ever learn to walk because they're always in someone's
arms. And I think, my gosh, wouldn't it be wonderful if every
child had that love and support. But they don't.
We will not be a great country unless we have a
strong family unit in every home. And I think you can use the
White House as a bully pulpit to stress the importance of these
little children, particularly in their young and formative years
to mold these little precious pieces of clay so that they, too,
can live rich, full lives when they're grown. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: New question, two-minute answer, goes
to President Bush. Sandy will ask it.
MR. VANOCUR: Mr. President, there's been a lot of
talk about Harry Truman in this campaign -- so much so that I
think tomorrow I'll wake up and see him named as the next
commissioner of baseball. (Laughter.)
PRESIDENT BUSH: We could use one.
MR. VANOCUR: The thing that Mr. Truman didn't have
to deal with is drugs. Americans are increasingly alarmed about
drug-related crimes in cities and suburbs, and your
administration is not the first to have grappled with this. Are
you at all of a mind that maybe it ought to go to another level,
if not to what's advocated by William F. Buckley, Jr. and Milton
Freedman -- legalization -- somewhere between there and where we
are now?
PRESIDENT BUSH: No. I don't think that's the right
answer. I don't believe legalizing narcotics is the answer. I
just don't believe that's the answer. I do believe that there's
some fairly good news out there. The use of cocaine, for
example, by teenagers is dramatically down. But we've got to
keep fighting on this war against drugs.
We're doing a little better in interdiction. Many
of the countries below -- that used to say, well, this is a
United States problems; if you'd get the demand down, then we
wouldn't have the problem -- are working cooperatively with the
DEA and other law -- the military. We're using the military
more now in terms of interdiction. Our funding for recovery is
up -- recovering the addicts.
Where we're not making the progress, Sander, is in
-- we're making it in teenagers. And thank God, because I
thought what Ross said was most appropriate about these families
and these children. But where we're not making it is with the
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confirmed addicts. And I'll tell you one place that's working
well, and that is the private sector -- Jim Burke and this task
force that he has. You may know about it. Tell the American
people, but this man said I'll get you a million dollars a day in
pro bono advertising, something that's very hard for the
government to do. And he went out and he did it. And people are
beginning to educate through this program, teaching these kids
you shouldn't use drugs.
So we're still in the fight. But I must tell you, I
think legalization of narcotics or something of that nature, in
the face of the medical evidence, would be totally
counterproductive. And I oppose it. And I'm going to stand up
and continue to oppose it. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, one minute.
MR. PEROT: Any time you think you want to legalize
drugs, go to a neonatal unit, if you can get in. They are
between 100 and 200 percent capacity up and down the East Coast.
And the reason is crack babies being born. Babies in the
hospital 42 days. Typical cost of you and me is $125,000. Again
and again and again, the mother disappears in three days and the
child becomes a ward of the state because he's permanently and
genetically damaged. Just look at those little children, and if
anybody can even think about legalizing drugs, they've lost me.
Now, let's look at priorities. We went on the
Libyan raid -- you remember that one -- because we were worried
to death that Gadhafi might be building up chemical weapons.
We've got chemical warfare being conducted against our children
on the streets in this country all day, every day, and we don't
have the will to stamp it out.
And again, if I get up there, if you send me, we're
going to have some blunt talks about this. And we're really
going to get out in the trenches and say, is this one you want to
talk about or fix? Because talk won't do it, folks. There are
guys that couldn't get a job third shift in a Dairy Queen,
driving BMWs and Mercedes, selling drugs. And these old boys are
not going to quit easy. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Like Mr. Perot, I have held crack
babies in my arms. But I know more about this I think than
anybody else up here because I have a brother who's a recovering
drug addict. I'm very proud of him. But I can tell you this:
If drugs were legal, I don't think he'd be alive today. I am
adamantly opposed to legalizing drugs. He is alive today because
of the criminal justice system. That's a mistake.
What should we do? First we ought to prevent more
of this on the street. Thirty years ago there were three
policemen for every crime. Now there are three crimes for every
policemen. We need 100,000 more police on the street. I have a
plan for that.
Secondly, we ought to have treatment on demand.
Thirdly, we ought to have boot camps for first-time nonviolent
offenders so they can get discipline and treatment and education
and get reconnected to the community before they are severed and
sent to prison where they can learn how to be first-class
criminals.
There is a crime bill that, lamentably, was blocked
from passage once again -- mostly by Republicans in the United
States Senate, which would have addressed some of these problems.
That crime bill is going to be one of my highest priorities next
January if I become President. (Applause.)
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MR. LEHRER: Next question is to you, Mr. Perot.
You have two minutes to answer it, and John will ask it.
MR. MASHEK: Mr. Perot, racial division continues to
tear apart our great cities, the last episode being this spring
in Los Angeles. Why is this still happening in America? And
what would you do to end it?
MR. PEROT: This is a relevant question here
tonight. First thing I'd do is during political campaigns, I
would urge everybody to stop trying to split this country into
fragments and appeal to the differences between us, and then
wonder why the melting pot's all broken to pieces after November
the 3rd. (Applause.)
We are all in this together. We ought to love one
another because united teams win and divided teams lose. If we
can't love one another, we ought to get along with one another.
And if you can't get there, just recognize we're all stuck with
one another, because nobody's going anywhere. Right?
(Laughter.)
Now, that ought to get everybody back up. So let's
get along together and make it work. Our diversity is a
strength. We've turned it into a weakness.
Now, again, the White House is a bully pulpit. I
think whoever's in the White House should just make it absolutely
unconscionable and inexcusable. And if anybody's in the middle
of a speech at a -- you know, one of these conventions, I would
expect the candidate to go out and lift him off the stage if he
starts preaching hate; because we don't have time for it.
Our differences are our strengths. We have got to
pull together -- in athletics, we know it. You see, divided
teams lose, united teams win. We have got to unite and pull
together. And there's nothing we can't do. But if we sit around
blowing all this energy out the window on racial strife and
hatred, we are stuck with a sure loser. Because we have been a
melting pot, we're becoming more and more of a melting pot.
Let's make it a strength, not a weakness. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I grew up in the segregated
south; thankfully, raised by a grandfather with almost no formal
education, but with a heart of gold who taught me early that all
people were equal in the eyes of God. I saw the winds of hatred
divide people and keep the people of my state poorer than they
would have been, spiritually and economically. And I've done
everything I could in my public life to overcome racial
divisions. We don't have a person to waste in this country.
We are being murdered economically because we have
too many dropouts; we have too many low-birth weight babies; we
have too many drug addicts as kids; we have too much violence; we
are too divided by race, by income, by region.
And I have devoted a major portion of this campaign
to going across this country and looking for opportunities to go
to white groups and African American groups and Latino groups,
Asian American groups and say the same thing: If the American
people cannot be brought together, we can't turn this country
around. If we can come together, nothing -- nothing can stop us.
(Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, one minute.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I think Governor Clinton is
committed. I do think it's fair to note -- he can rebut it --
that Arkansas is one of the few states that doesn't have any
civil rights legislation. I've tried to use the White House as a
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bully pulpit, speaking out against discrimination. We passed two
very forward-looking civil rights bills.
It's not going to be all done by legislation, but I
do think that you need to make an appeal every time you can to
eliminate racial divisions and discrimination. And I'll keep on
doing that and pointing to some legislative accomplishment to
back it up.
I have to take 10 seconds here at the end -- the red
light isn't on yet -- to say to Ross Perot, please don't say to
the DEA agents on the street that we don't have the will to fight
drugs. Please -- I have watched these people; the same for our
local law enforcement people. We're backing them in every way we
possibly can. But maybe you meant that some in the country don't
have the will to fight it. But those that are out there on the
front line, as you know -- you've been a strong backer of law
enforcement -- really, I just want to clear that up -- have the
will to fight it. And, frankly, some of them are giving their
lives.
MR. LEHRER: Time, Mr. President. All right, let's
go now to another subject -- the subject of health. The first
question for two minutes is to President Bush, and John will ask
it.
MR. MASHEK: Mr. President, yesterday tens of
thousands of people paraded past the White House to demonstrate
their concern about the disease, AIDS. A celebrated member of
your commission, Magic Johnson, quit, saying that there was too
much inaction. Where is this widespread feeling coming from that
your administration is not doing enough about AIDS?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Coming from the political process.
We have increased funding for AIDS -- we've doubled it. On
research and on every other aspect of it. My request for this
year was $4.9 billion for AIDS -- 10 times as much for AIDS
victim as per cancer victim. I think that we're showing the
proper compassion and concern. so I can't tell you where it's
coming from, but I am very much concerned about AIDS, and I
believe that we've got the best researchers in the world out
there at NIH working the problem. We're funding them -- I wish
there was more money, but we're funding them far more than any
time in the past. And we're going to keep on doing that.
I don't know, I was a little disappointed in Magic,
because he came to me and I said, now, if you see something we're
not doing, get a hold of me, call me, let me know. He went to
one meeting, and then we heard that he was stepping down. So
he's been replaced by Mary Fisher, who electrified the Republican
Convention by talking about the compassion and the concern that
we feel. It was a beautiful moment, and I think she'll do a
first-class job on that commission.
So I think the appeal is, yes, we care. And the
other thing is, part of AIDS -- it's one of the few diseases
where behavior matters. And I once called on somebody, well,
change your behavior -- if the behavior you're using is prone to
cause AIDS, change the behavior. The next thing I know, one of
these ACT-UP groups is out saying, Bush ought to change his
behavior. You can't talk about it rationally. The extremes are
hurting the AIDS cause. To go into a Catholic Mass in a
beautiful cathedral in New York under the cause of helping in
AIDS and start throwing condoms around in the Mass -- I'm sorry,
I think it sets back the cause. We cannot move to the extreme.
We've got to care. We've got to continue everything
we can at the federal and the local level. Barbara, I think, is
doing a superb job in destroying the myth about AIDS. And all of
us are in this fight together. All of us care. Do not go to the
extreme. (Applause.)
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MR. LEHRER: One minute, Mr. Perot.
MR. PEROT: First, I think Mary Fisher was a great
choice. We're lucky to have her heading the commission.
Secondly, I think one thing that -- if I were sent to do the job,
I would sit down with FDA, look exactly where we are. Then I
would really focus on let's get these things out. If you're
going to die, you don't have to go through this 10-year cycle
that FDA goes through on new drugs. Believe me, people with AIDS
are more than willing to take that risk, and we could be moving
out to the human population a whole lot faster than we are on
some of these new drugs. So I would -- I think we can expedite
the problem there.
Let me go back a minute to racial divisiveness.
All-time low in our country was the Judge Thomas-Anita Hill
hearings, and those senators ought to be hanging their heads in
shame for what they did there. (Applause.)
Second thing, there are not many times in your life
when you get to talk to a whole country, but let me just say this
to all of America: If you hate people, I don't want your vote.
That's how strongly I feel about it. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Over 150,000 Americans have died
of AIDS -- well over a million and a quarter Americans are HIV
positive. We need to put one person in charge of the battle
against AIDS to cut across all the agencies that deal with it.
We need to accelerate the drug approval process. We need to
fully fund the act named for that wonderful boy, Ryan White, to
make sure we're doing everything we can on research and
treatment. And the President should lead a national effort to
change behavior, to keep our children alive in the schools.
Responsible behavior to keep people alive. This is a matter of
life and death.
I've worked in my state to reduce teen pregnancy and
illness among children. And I know it's tough. The reason Magic
Johnson resigned from the AIDS Commission is because the
statement you heard tonight from Mr. Bush is the longest and best
statement he's made about it in public. I'm proud of what we did
at the Democratic Convention, putting two HIV-positive people on
the platform, and I'm proud of the leadership that I'm going to
bring to this country in dealing with the AIDS crisis.
(Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: New question for Mr. Perot. You have
two minutes to answer, and Ann will ask it.
MS. COMPTON: Mr. Perot, even if you've got what
people say are the guts to take on changes in the most popular
and the most sacred of the entitlements, Medicare, people say you
haven't a prayer of actually getting anything passed in
Washington. Since the President isn't a lone ranger, how in the
world can you make some of those unpopular changes?
MR. PEROT: Two ways. Number one, if I get there,
it will be a very unusual and historical event because --
(laughter) -- because the people, not the special interests, put
me there. I will have a unique mandate. I have said again and
again -- and this really upsets the establishment in Washington
-- that we're going to inform the people in detail on the issues
through an electronic town hall so that they really know what's
going on. They will want to do what's good for our country.
Now, all these fellas with thousand-dollar suits and
alligator shoes running up and down the halls of Congress that
make policy now -- the lobbyists, the PAC guys, the foreign
lobbyists, what have you -- they'll be over there in the
Smithsonian. (Laughter.) Because we're going to get rid of
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them. And the Congress will be listening to the people, and the
American people are willing to have fair, shared sacrifice.
They're not as stupid as Washington thinks they are.
The American people are bright, intelligent, caring,
loving people who want a great country for their children and
grandchildren. And they will make those sacrifices. So I
welcome that challenge. And just watch. Because if the American
people send me there, we'll get it done. (Applause.)
Now, everybody will faint in Washington. They've
never seen anything happen in that town. (Laughter.) This is a
town where the White House says "Congress did it;" Congress says,
"The White House did it;" and I'm sitting there and saying,
"Well, who else could be around?" And then, when they get off by
themselves, they said, "Nobody did it." (Laughter.) And yet,
the cash register is empty and it used to have our money, the
taxpayers' money, in it, and we didn't get the results. We'll
get it done. (Applause)
MR. LEHRER: Governor, one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Ross, that's a great speech, but
it's not quite that simple. (Laughter.) I mean, look at the
facts. Both parties in Washington, the President and the
Congress, have cut Medicare. The average senior citizen is
spending a higher percentage of income on health care today than
they were in 1965 before Medicare came in. The President's got
another proposal to require them to pay $400 a year more for the
next five years.
But if you don't have the guts to control cost by
changing the insurance system and taking on the bureaucracies and
the regulation of health care in the private and public sector,
you can't fix this problem. Costs will continue to spiral. And
just remember this, folks: A lot of folks on Medicare are out
there every day, making the choice between food and medicine.
Not poor enough for Medicare, Medicaid; not wealth enough to buy
their medicine. I've met them -- people like Mary Annie and
Edward Davis of Nashua, New Hampshire -- all over this country.
They cannot even buy medicine. So let's be careful. When we
talk about cutting health care costs, let's start with the
insurance companies and the people that are making a killing
instead of making our people healthy. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: One minute, President Bush.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, first place I'd like to clear
up something, because every four years, the Democrats go around
and say, hey, Republicans are going to cut Social Security and
Medicare. They've started it again. I am the President that
stood up and said, don't mess with Social Security. And I'm not
going to, and we haven't. And we are not going to go after the
Social Security recipient. I have one difference with Mr. Perot
on that because I don't think we need to touch Social Security.
What we do need to do, though, is control the growth
of these mandatory programs. And Ross properly says, okay,
there's some pain in that. But Governor Clinton refuses to touch
that -- simply refuses. So what we've got to do is control it to
-- the growth. Let it grow for inflation; let it grow for the
amount of new people added, population, and then hold the line.
And I believe that is the way you get the deficit down, not by
the tax-and-spend program that we hear every four years, whether
it's Mondale, Dukakis -- whoever else it is. I just don't
believe we ought to do that. So hold the line on Social Security
and put a cap on the growth of the mandatory program.
MR. LEHRER: New question. It is for Governor
Clinton. Two-minute answer, Sandy will ask it.
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MR. VANOCUR: Governor Clinton, Ann Compton has
brought up Medicare. I remember in 1965 when Wilbur Mills of
Arkansas, the Chairman of Ways and Means, was pushing it through
the Congress. The charge against it was it's socialized
medicine. One, you never --
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Mr. Bush made that charge.
MR. VANOCUR: Well, he served with him two years
later in 1967 where I first met him. The second point, though,
is that it is now skyrocketing out of control. People want it,
we say it's going bonkers. Is not the Oregon plan applied to
Medicaid rationing -- the proper way to go, even though the
federal government last August ruled that violated the Americans
With Disabilities Act of 1990?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I thought the Oregon plan should
at least have been allowed to be tried because at least the
people in Oregon were trying to do something.
Let me go back to the main point, Sandy. Mr. Bush
is trying to run against Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter and
everybody in the world but me in this race. I have proposed a
managed competition plan for health care. I will say again --
you cannot control health care costs simply by cutting Medicare.
Look what's happened. The federal government has cut Medicare
and Medicaid in the last few years. States have cut Medicaid;
we've done it in Arkansas under budget pressures. But what
happens? More and more people get on the rolls as poverty
increases. If you don't control the health care costs of the
entire system, you cannot get control of it.
Look at our program. We've set up a national
ceiling on health care costs tied to inflation and population
growth set by health care providers, not by the government. We
provide for managed competition, not government models, in every
state, and we control private and public health care costs.
Now, just a few days ago, a bipartisan commission of
Republicans and Democrats, more Republicans than Democrats, said
my plan will save the average family $1,200 a year more than the
Bush plan will by the year 2000; $2.2 trillion in the next 12
years; $400 billion a year by the end of this decade. I've got a
plan to control health care costs. But you can't just do it by
cutting Medicare. You have to take on the insurance companies,
the bureaucracies, and you have to have cost controls, yes. But
keep in mind, we are spending 30 percent more on health care than
any country in the world -- any other country. And yet, we have
35 million people uninsured, we have no preventive and primary
care. The Oregon plan is a good start if the federal government
is going to continue to abandon its responsibilities.
I say if Germany can cover everybody and keep costs
under inflation, if Hawaii can cover 98 percent of their people
at lower health care costs than the rest of us, if Rochester, New
York can do it with two-thirds of the cost of the rest of us,
America can do it, too. I'm tired of being told we can't; I say
we can. We can do better and we must. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I don't have time in 30
seconds or one minute to talk about our health care reform plan.
The Oregon plan made some good sense. But it's easy to dismiss
the concerns of the disabled. As President, I have to be sure
that those waivers which we're approving all over the place are
covered under the law. Maybe we can work it out. But the
Americans for Disabilities Act, speaking about sound and sensible
civil rights legislation, was the foremost piece of legislation
passed in modern times. And so we do have something more than a
technical problem.
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Governor Clinton clicked off the things -- you've
got to take on insurance companies and bureaucracies. He failed
to take on somebody else -- the malpractice suit people, those
that bring these lawsuits against -- these frivolous trial
lawyers' lawsuits that are running cost of medical care up by $25
billion to $50 billion. And he refuses to put anything --
controls on these crazy lawsuits.
If you want to help somebody, don't run the cost up
by making doctors have to have five or six tests where one would
do for fear of being sued; or have somebody along the highway not
stop to pick up a guy and help him because he's afraid a trial
lawyer will come along and sue him. We're suing each other too
much and caring for each other too little.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, one minute. (Applause.)
MR. PEROT: We've got the most expensive health care
system in the world. It ranks behind 15 other nations when we
come to life expectancy, and 22 other nations when we come to
infant mortality. So we don't have the best.
Pretty simple, folks. If you're paying more and you
don't have the best, if all else fails go copy the people who
have the best who spend less, right? But we can do better than
that. Again, we've got plans lying all over the place in
Washington. Nobody ever implements them.
Now, I'm back to square one. If you want to stop
talking about it and do it, then I'll be glad to go up there and
we'll get it done. But if you just want to keep the music going,
just stay traditional this next time around and this -- four
years from now you'll have everybody blaming everybody else for a
bad health care system. Talk is cheap. Words are plentiful;
deeds are precious. Let's get on with it. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: And that's exactly what we're going to
do. That was, in fact, the final question and answer. We're now
going to move to closing statements. Each candidate will have up
to two minutes. The order, remember, was determined by a
drawing. And, Mr. Perot, you were first.
MR. PEROT: Well, it's been a privilege to be able
to talk to the American people tonight. I make no bones about
it: I love this country, I love the principle it's founded on, I
love the people here. I don't like to see the country's
principles violated. I don't like to see the people in a
deteriorating economy and a deteriorating country because our
government has lost touch with the people. The people in
Washington are good people, we just have a bad system. We've got
to change the system. It's time to do it because we have run up
so much debt that time is no longer our friend. We've got to put
our house in order.
When you go to bed tonight, look at your children.
Think of their dreams. Think of your dreams as a child. And ask
yourself, "Isn't it time to stop talking about it? Isn't it time
to stop creating images? Isn't it time to do it?" Aren't you
sick of being treated like an unprogrammed robot? Every four
years they send you all kinds of messages to tell you how to vote
and then go back to business as usual. They told you at the tax
and budget summit that if you agreed to a tax increase, we could
balance the budget. They didn't tell you that that same year
they increased spending $1.83 for every dollar we increased
taxes. That's Washington in a nutshell right there.
In the final analysis, I'm doing this for your
children, when you look at them tonight. There's another group
that I feel very close to, and these are the men and women who
fought on the battlefield, the children -- the families of the
ones who died, the people who left parts of their bodies over
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there. I'd never ask you to do anything for me, but I owe you
this and I'm doing it for you.
And I can't tell you what it means to me at these
rallies when I see you, and you come up and the look in your
eyes. And I know how you feel and you know how I feel. And then
I think of the older people who are retired. They grew up in the
Depression, they fought and won World War II. We owe you a debt
we can never repay you. And the greatest repayment I can ever
give is to recreate the American Dream for your children and
grandchildren. I'll give it everything I have if you want me to
do it. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, your closing
statement.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I'd like to thank the people of
St. Louis and Washington University, the Presidential Debate
Commission, and all those who made this night possible. And I'd
like to thank those of you who are watching. Most of all, I'd
like to thank all of you who have touched me in some way over
this last year -- all the thousands of you whom I've seen. I'd
like to thank the computer executives and the electronics
executives in Silicon Valley, two-thirds of whom are Republicans,
who said they wanted to sign-on to a change to create a new
America. I'd like to thank the hundreds of executives who came
to Chicago -- a third of them Republicans -- who said they wanted
a change. I'd like to thank the people who started with Mr.
Perot who have come on to help our campaign. I'd like to thank
all the folks around America that no one ever knows about -- the
woman who was holding the AIDS baby she adopted in Cedar Rapids,
Iowa, who asked me to do something more for adoption; the woman
who stopped along the road in Wisconsin and wept because her
husband had lost his job after 27 years. All the people who are
having a tough time and the people who are winning, but who know
how desperately we need to change.
This debate tonight has made crystal clear a
challenge that is as old as America -- the choice between hope
and fear; change or more of the same. The courage to move into a
new tomorrow or to listen to the crowd who says "Things could be
worse."
Mr. Bush has said some very compelling things
tonight that don't quite square with the record. He was
President for three years before he proposed a health care plan
that still hasn't been sent to Congress in total. Three years.
before an economic plan, and he still didn't say tonight that
that tax bill he vetoed raised taxes only on the rich and gave
the rest of you a break, but he vetoed it anyway.
I offer a new direction. Invest in American jobs,
American education, control health care costs, bring this country
together again. I want the future of this country to be as
bright and brilliant as its past, and it can be if we have the
courage to change. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, your closing statement.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, let me tell you a little what
it's like to be President. In the Oval Office, you can't predict
what kind of crisis is going to come up. You have to make tough
calls. You can't be on one hand this way and one hand another.
You can't take different positions on these difficult issues.
And then you need a philosophical -- I'd call it a
philosophical underpinning. Mine for foreign affairs is
democracy and freedom. And look at the dramatic changes around
the world. The Cold War is over. The Soviet Union is no more
and we're working with a democratic country. Poland, Hungary,
Czechoslovakia, the Baltics are free. Take a look at the Middle
East. We had to stand up against a tyrant. The United States
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came together as we haven't in many, many years. And we kicked
this man out of Kuwait. And in the process, as a result of that
will and that decision and that toughness, we now have ancient
enemies talking peace in the Middle East. Nobody would have
dreamed it possible.
And I think the biggest dividend of making these
tough calls is the fact that we are less afraid of nuclear war.
Every parent out there has much less worry that their kids are
going to be faced with nuclear holocaust. All this is good.
On the domestic side, what we must do is have change
that empowers people. Not change for the sake of change -- tax
and spend. We don't need to do that anymore. What we need to do
is empower people. We need to invest and save. We need to do
better in education. We need to do better in job retraining. We
need to expand our exports -- and they're going very, very well
indeed. And we need to strengthen the American family.
I hope as President that I've earned your trust.
I've admitted it when I make a mistake, but then I go on and help
try to solve the problem. I hope I've earned your trust.
Because a lot of being President is about trust and character.
And I ask for your support for four more years to finish this
job.
Thank you very, very much. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Don't go away yet. I just want to
thank the three panelists and thank the three candidates for
participating -- President Bush, Governor Clinton, and Mr. Perot.
They will appear again together on October the 15th and again on
October 19th. And next Tuesday there will be a debate among the
three candidates for Vice President.
And for now, from Washington University in St.
Louis, Missouri, I'm Jim Lehrer -- thank you, and good night.
(Applause.)
END
7:36 P.M. CDT
#9621
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(Springfield, Pennsylvania)
For Immediate Release
October 12, 1992
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT SPRINGFIELD TOWNSHIP WELCOME
Springfield Township Municipal Amphitheater
Springfield, Pennsylvania
11:57 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very, very much. Give
them the sign. (Laughter.) Thank you very, very much. And let
me say it's great to be back here in Springfield; great to be
back in this all-important part of Pennsylvania. (Applause.)
And great to be accompanied by one of the true national leaders
who is your Congressman, Curt Weldon. He's doing an outstanding
job. (Applause.)
I hope some of you tuned into last night's political
talk-a-thon. (Applause.) I don't pretend to be an Oxford
debater, but I think I did okay. (Applause.) And what we're
going to do is continue to tell the truth about this country, and
let the voters decide three weeks from whenever it is --
tomorrow. Three weeks away. We need your support. (Applause.)
You know, listening to our opponents, you might
think they want you to believe that America is a nation in
decline. And, of course, we've got our challenges, but we should
never forget that our people are still the best educated; our
economy, in spite of the problems, the most dynamic; our workers
are still the most productive -- more productive than any other
workers in the entire world. (Applause.)
And I am proud of what we have done to strengthen
America's leadership all around the world. (Applause.)
Four years ago we said we'd bring America's disabled
into the mainstream, and we delivered. I said we would do what
no President has done in 10 years, and that is start to clean our
air and get rid of acid rain, and we delivered. And I said we
would strengthen the family by letting parents, not the
government, choose our kids' child care, and we delivered again.
(Applause.)
And I am very proud that on my watch more than a
billion people, almost one-fifth of the entire population of the
world, have enjoyed the first breath of freedom. And I'm proud
that we stood up to the bully of Baghdad, and led the world to
say no to aggression. (Applause.)
And I am especially proud that the children here
today -- the young people -- will grow up in a world that is
safer because we reduced the fear of nuclear war. (Applause.)
But as you people know, there is still -- the Soviet
bear may be gone, but there are still some wolves in the woods.
And it may be tempting to believe that we can turn the American
Commander-in-Chief into the Maytag repairman. But there are
still dangers in the world and you've got to ask who do you trust
to keep your families secure. (Applause.)
Governor Clinton has absolutely no experience in
international matters and I am the President who has led the
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world and made these kids safer. (Applause.) I ask for your
support on that basis.
You see, the new world brings new challenges and new
opportunities. And we're part of a global economy. And this is
no time to hand the wheel to a novice. And when it comes to
steering America through the new global economic challenges,
America needs a driver who knows the highway. Do not take a risk
on America's future. (Applause.)
I have laid out -- I have laid out my Agenda for
American Renewal, the steps that we must take to win the economic
competition, to build a prosperous, secure nation for all the
kids here today. And step number one is to tear down the
barriers to free and fair trade so that we can create good jobs
for American workers. (Applause.)
And, yes, we've been caught up in a global economic
slowdown. We have to understand that the nations of Europe would
switch for our economy in a fast minute. And we have lower
inflation and lower interest rates. We're the world's leading
exporter. And when you shop in the world, chances are that the
goods in the stores say -- not "Made in Japan," not "Made in
Germany," but "Made in the USA. " (Applause.)
AUDIENCE: USA. USA. USA. USA.
THE PRESIDENT: And by opening up foreign markets,
we will provide good jobs for our kids and our grandkids.
You know, already the average export-related job
pays 17 percent more than a traditional job. So if we want our
sons and daughters of steelworkers to have good jobs, we must
fight for free and fair trade. And I am proud of our
administration that last week signed the North American Free
Trade Agreement, forging a $6 trillion market from Manitoba to
Mexico. NAFTA will create 175,000 new American jobs.
(Applause.)
And in my second term, we will fight for new
agreements with the nations of Europe and Asia and Latin America.
And just as we once used our military alliances to win the Cold
War, we can use these economic alliances to win the new business
war. We are number one. Let's make ourselves even stronger.
But let's be serious about one point: If we're
going to win that competition in the new economy, we've got to do
it, and we've got to do it by changing our schools. You know, we
already spend more per pupil than any of our major industrial
competitors and yet our kids rank near the bottom in math and
science. We need to embrace new ideas. And again, I'm proud of
what we've done already. Never in history has America had
national education goals. But today we do. Now let's build on
that goals to give every kid here a better education.
(Applause.)
Never before in America have almost 2,000
communities committed to literally reinventing our schools. And
today they are. But we can't stop here. So in my second term I
want to give every parent in America the right to choose their
kids' 'school public, private, or religious. (Applause.)
But, you know, reforming education will not be
enough if our graduates can't find jobs. So we have to
strengthen American business. And the past four years have not
been easy. American companies are restructuring. But almost
every American industry - steel, computers, biotech -- is
stronger than just a few years ago. And small business is the
backbone of this economy, creating two out of every three jobs.
And small business will lead the economic recovery if we can
provide the kind of tax relief I'm fighting for -- relief from
taxation, regulation, and litigation. (Applause.)
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America spends up to $200 billion every year on
direct cost to lawyers. And Japan doesn't spend this. And
neither does Germany. And I want to take on these trial lawyers
and reform our lawsuit-happy legal system. (Applause.) People
don't even dare coach Little League because they'll get sued.
You see a guy lying along the highway and you don't dare stop
because you think somebody will sue you for trying to help. Or
if you're a doctor, you don't dare deliver babies because you're
afraid some crazy patient will sue you with a malpractice suit.
Well, look, we sue each other too much and we care
for each other too little. Let's start doing it the other way --
care for each other more and sue each other less. (Applause.)
And step four is this: We've got to cut the cost
of health care. And with our current health care system, you get
sick twice first when you go to the doctor, and then a month
later when you get the bill. And I want to reform this
malpractice insurance. I want to use competition to drive the
cost down. I want to make insurance available to absolutely
everybody the poorest of the poor right up through the
overworked, overtaxed middle class. (Applause.)
And my plan does that. And we still keep the
quality of American health care. Let's not go to socialized
medicine, let's go to competitive medicine. (Applause.)
A good doctor ought not to be a luxury, not
something reserved for the privileged few. Not here, not in
Pennsylvania, not in America -- not anymore. Pass my health care
reform. Give me new members of Congress. Clean out the House.
Give us more like Curt. Give us people that will pass this kind
of legislation. (Applause.)
Priority number five is to reach out to every
American, because in the next century we need the talent of every
person, from the city to the suburbs to the furthest rural town.
And to do this we must take back our streets from the crackheads
and the criminals. We must back our law enforcement people.
(Applause.)
And today I've just come from a marvelous meeting of
20 leaders of national firefighting people. And we've got to
make them safe by better law enforcement. We must protect those
who are helping us. (Applause.)
I'm proud that under my administration about 85
percent of the people served their full sentences on federal
crimes. And we have appointed federal judges who have a little
less respect for the criminal and a lot more for the victims of
crime. And that's the kind of judges we need. (Applause.)
But we want to do even better. With tough new laws
for new crimes like carjacking, and special laws for crimes
against women and the elderly. And so I put forward a specific
plan to eliminate over 4,000 government projects, almost 250
programs that waste your hard-earned tax dollars. And I want to
control the growth of mandatory federal spending without touching
Social Security. Leave Social Security safe. (Applause.)
And as Curt knows, the Congress can't do anything
about the deficit, so give me a chance. Give me a balanced
budget amendment, a line-item veto, an check-off on our tax
return. (Applause.) A check-off on the tax return to take the
deficit off our children's soldiers. We've got to get the job
done, and the current Congress won't do it. The good news is,
because of the fraud in the banks and the post cifices, we're
going to have a lot of new congressmen. And I'll sit down and
say, let's change America. Let's get the deficit off the back of
these kids. (Applause.)
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Governor Clinton simply cannot stand up to the
congressional bosses. He refuses to endorse term limits. And I
say let's limit the terms of members of Congress and give the
government back to the people. (Applause.)
So this is some of our Agenda for America's Renewal.
It's a comprehensive, it's an innovative, a new approach; a new
plan. And it offers the promises of a very different America
than the plan Governor Clinton proposes.
Now, look at each of the items I've mentioned and
you'll see the difference. I hate to ruin this beautiful sunny
day in Springfield, but I've got to tell you a little bit
factually about Governor Clinton's record.
On the question of the North American Free Trade
Agreement he was first for it and then against it. And now he's
for it again. You can't do that. They don't serve waffles in
the Oval Office on these tough issues. (Applause.) And you have
to take a position. You can't keep everybody happy, but you've
got to -- can't -- take a position. You can't be on all sides of
every issue.
In education, Governor Clinton talks a good game,
but he's flunked the test in Arkansas. He can't reform American
schools because he doesn't want to attend the very powerful union
leaders. I want to support the teachers, not the teacher's
union. He wants to listen to the union and not to the teachers.
(Applause.)
You see the same thing when it comes to small
business. Governor Clinton and the trial lawyers act like Boris
and Natasha in those old Bullwinkle cartoons -- you remember?
They played goo-goo eyes with each other. And he wants small
business to pay a stiff new payroll tax for health care. And
that would drive away jobs in small business. And we don't need
to destroy jobs, we need to create jobs. (Applause.)
And on crime -- on crime, I have been endorsed,
because we have a strong record of backing the law enforcement
officers, by the National Fraternal Order of Police. And get
this -- the police in Little Rock, the ones who know Governor
Clinton best, have endorsed me for President of the United
States. (Applause.)
And here's the biggest difference of all. Here is
the biggest difference of all. Where I want to make government
smaller, Governor Clinton has already proposed -- worse than
Mondale, worse than Dukakis -- $150 billion in new taxes. And
that ain't all of it, man. He's also proposed over $200 billion
in new spending, and he hasn't got there yet. We cannot have
that.
You've got to ask who's going to pay for it. He
says sock it to the rich. There aren't that many people that are
rich. What he's going to do is stick it right to the cab driver,
the teacher, the nurse, the firefighter, the construction
workers. And I say we need to help the middle class, not sock it
to them with more taxes. (Applause.)
So we've got two fundamentally different
philosophies of government. He puts his faith in more
government, in special interests, in higher taxes to pay for all
his promises. And I offer smaller government, lower taxes, and
more power to the people so that we can renew America.
(Applause.)
And the Democrats don't like it when I talk about
it, but we've got to find ways to strengthen the American family,
not tear it apart into shreds by crazy social legislation.
(Applause.)
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When Barbara Bush -- and I think we've got the --
(applause) -- when Barbara Bush reads to those children in the
Diplomatic Entrance to the White House, she's saying "Love your
kid. Read to the children. Strengthen the American family."
And that's what we must do. (Applause.) And I agree with you.
I think we've got the best First Lady in a long, long time.
(Applause.)
You know, as I told them last night -- in the Oval
Office, the buck does stop there. You've got to make tough
decisions. You can't keep everybody happy. When you make a
mistake you pick up and go on and try to continue to help the
American people. When you admit -- do something wrong, do like a
family person does -- say, "Look, I made a mistake and now I want
to go forward.' I believe I have been a good, strong leader in
tough times for the United States of America. (Applause.)
AUDIENCE: Four more years! Four more years! Four
more years!
THE PRESIDENT: I believe I have the ideas, the
experience and the character to lead again so that together we
can make our nation more safe and more secure. And let us not
risk -- let us not take a risk on America's future. And I ask
for your trust so that I can finish this job. I am proud of the
United States. I do not tear it down. I want to lift it up and
make life better for every single American.
And may God bless you all. (Applause.) May God
bless you. And thank you for this fantastic show of support.
(Applause.) I am very, very grateful to you. Thank you all.
END
12:15 P.M. EDT
#1020
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(Springfield, Pennsylvania)
For Immediate Release
October 12, 1992
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
TO, SPRINGFIELD FIREFIGHTERS
Springfield Township Fire Co. #44
Springfield, Pennsylvania
11:35 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Curt, thank you so very much. And I
just can't tell you what this event means to me. I want to offer
a special salute to Curt Weldon. He has got to be, when you look
at the whole nation of the firefighters, the emergency
responders, best friend. He is unbelievable in his steadfast
support for everything we believe in. (Applause.)
And Curt is very generous in his assessment of my
role, but it is his work, his labor, his efforts that make this
historic bill here -- gives us this bill to sign today. I want
to salute Chief Gallagher; Gene Bidoli, the President of the
Fireman's Association of Delaware County. I want to salute the
20 national presidents that are here today, representing a
million and a half emergency responders all across our great
country.
It's an honor to be here. And I guess like every
kid in America, I grew up wondering whether I could ever be a
fireman. And Barbara saw me drilling a hole in the Lincoln
Bedroom the other day, trying to put a fire pole down, curbing it
around to go down into the Oval Office. (Laughter.)
But I am here today to sign the Benjamin Franklin
National Memorial Commemorative Medal and Fire Service Bill of
Rights Act. It authorizes the mining of a medal commemorating
Benjamin Franklin's contribution to the advancement of science
and the American fire service.
The activities funded through the sale of the medal
we're going to authorize today will help to carry out your
important bill of rights. And the proceeds will help promote
education and training programs, a greater public awareness and
support of the many hazards of firefighting and emergency
response. And they will help assure that should the ultimate
tragedy occur, your loved ones will be taken care of.
The list of benefits from this medal goes on and on,
and so does the courage of the American firefighters. And I know
that it can be touch and go in some situations, some of the calls
that you respond to; the danger that every firefighter faces when
entering a burning building or responding to an accident. And
for our bravery and for your unfailing dedication, I say this
from the bottom of my heart: thank you on behalf of all
Americans.
And also included in this act is the Fire Service
Bill of Rights. It is a tribute to all of you. It acknowledges
the important contributions that firefighters make to their
communities. But most of all, the Fire Service Bill of Rights is
long awaited and much deserved recognition for all you do for
your country.
As some of you may know, Teddy Roosevelt is among my
favorite Presidents in history, and let me share with you what
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his father said to him on his 16th birthday. He said, "We are
not placed here to live exclusively for ourselves." And you
serve -- you serve. You serve not only for yourselves alone,
obviously, by for the family called America.
And on behalf of that family, thank you, may God
bless each and every one of you. All of you are heroes in my
book. And may God bless the state of Pennsylvania and this
wonderful country that we are fortunate enough to live in -- the
United States of America.
And now you will see me sign enthusiastically and
make official this very important act. Thank you all very much.
(Applause.)
END
11:40 A.M. EDT
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(Fond du Lac, Wisconsin)
For Immediate Release
September 30, 1992
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT FOND DU LAC COMMUNITY WELCOME
Veterans Memorial Park
Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
12:45 P.M. CDT
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Governor Thompson. Thank
all of you for that warm Fond du Lac welcome. And it's great --
great to be here in your city, great to be back in the state of
Wisconsin. (Applause.)
And let me just say how pleased I am to be here with
your Lieutenant Governor, Scott McCallum, who's doing a great job
for the state; Anita Anderagg, the County Executive here, a real
leader; Cate Zeuska, the state Treasurer. And let me also thank
my longtime friend John MacIver, our Bush-Quayle Wisconsin
Chairman, for all his efforts. Unless you don't know it, you've
got one of the greatest Governors in Tommy Thompson in the entire
United States of America. (Applause.) He is an outstanding
national leader. And he's doing great things for this state.
And he's working most cooperatively with Washington. And I am
very, very proud that he is my close, dear friend. And Barbara
feels exactly the same way about him. (Applause.)
And I see some Tom Petri signs. We've got to
reelect him to the United States Congress. (Applause.) He's a
good man, a good Congressman; and reelect him.
Now, I understand that I'm visiting here the day
before the Democratic candidates come to town.
AUDIENCE: Booo --
THE PRESIDENT: I can't resist saying, I don't think
this is the last time that I'll be ahead of the Democratic
ticket. We are going to win this election in November.
(Applause.)
AUDIENCE: Four more years! Four more years! Four
more years! Four more years!
THE PRESIDENT: There's been a lot of discussion in
the past week about presidential debates. And I think debates
are important. And I think the American people deserve to see
the two candidates side by side. so yesterday, down in
Tennessee, I challenged my opponent to a series of four
television debates, the last four Sundays before the election.
And I said I'd be very flexible about the format, but I was eager
to have the American people compare my ideas with Governor
Clinton's. And we have offered to meet with Governor Clinton's
compaign anywhere, anytime. And so far at least, Governor
Clinton has responded to my challenge the same way he responds to
issues like free trade, fuel efficiency standards and middle
class taxes -- he waffles. I can't find him. He's lost. He's
missing in action. (Applause.) He refuses on this issue to take
a position one way or the other just like on all these other
issues.
so, this morning, I renew my challenge to Governor
Clinton; let's have our people sit down, work this out, and let's
have four debates with the formats that I like and the format
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that you like. And I'm no Oxford debater - I didn't spend a lot
of time over in Oxford, England in the Debating Society -- but I
say let American people decide. Let's get up there and get it on
side by side. (Applause.)
Now, when we sit down to debate and I hope the
Governor will take a stand to agree to them -- we should discuss
the most important question: What kind of America do we want for
the young people here today. Because of your sacrifice, because
of your commitment, we have helped reduce the fear of nuclear
annihilation. And, today, our kids can dream the sweet dreams of
peace without fear of nuclear war. And I am proud that that
happened when I have been President of the United States.
(Applause.)
You listen to Governor Clinton, you might think
national security of this country and foreign affairs are not
important. They are. We've changed the world. And now we face
a new challenge. We must win the new global economic
competition, because that is the only way we'll create good jobs
for our kids and our grandkids. And I've laid out what I call --
my call for an Agenda for American Renewal, a comprehensive,
integrated agenda to create in America by the 21st century the
world's very first $10 trillion economy. And we can do it. We
are Americans. (Applause.)
I know that many Americans are anxious about our
economy today, concerned about our future. But we need to
understand that we are experiencing the impact of a global
economic slowdown. It isn't just the United States. It's being
felt here at home but it's also felt in Asia and Europe. And
those countries would switch with us in a minute regarding
economies.
And my opponent spends a lot of time cutting down
America, tearing it down, telling everybody how bad he thinks
things are. And I would remind him of a few facts. Like the
fact that when you go looking for the world's most productive
workers and farmers, you don't look to Japan, you don't look to
Germany; you look right here in the United States of America.
(Applause.)
And we need to build on our strengths. And so my
agenda starts with a commitment to free and fair trade. And I
want to use my experience in international affairs to open new
markets for our products and services, because the American
worker never retreats. We always compete, and we always win.
(Applause.)
The people of Fond du Lac know this, but small
business is the backbone of what we call the new American
entrepreneurial capitalism. They will create two-thirds -- small
business will create two-thirds of the new jobs in this new
economy. And Governor Clinton promises small business relief
from taxation, regulation and, yes, litigation. But if we're
going to stay with him we better see what the record is. He has
a lousy record on regulation. And he certainly has a lousy
record on litigation.
Now, if we're really going to renew America,
attention must be paid to our children. It is tough to be a kid
in America today. The face of poverty is too often a fresh face.
The ignorant mind is too often a fresh face. The ignorant mind
is too often a young mind is too often something you can lose.
And the spirit of hope and opportunity has too often been taken
away from the young. We know what works to help our kids. We
know, for example, that if you give a low-income kid a head start
on kindergarten, they end up doing much better in school. And I
am proud that today, for the very first time, every eligible kid
who wants a head start can get one. And that happened on my
watch, and I'm very proud of it. (Applause.)
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I am proud of our education revolution. Already
1,700 schools, including many right here in Wisconsin, have
signed-on to the national crusade to raise standards, to free the
teachers -- God bless those teachers to free them from red
tape and to literally reinvent American schools. (Applause.)
And I want to go farther and give every parent the
right to choose the best schools for their kids -- public,
private, or religious. (Applause.)
But if we really want to help those kids, we have to
change the American system of child support. And the statistics
there are not pretty: 1989 -- fathers were absent from 10
million families. And only a little more of half of absent
parents are ordered to pay child support. And those required to
pay, only half do on time and in full. And only one in five
absent parents pay for kids' health care. And each year $5
billion in court-ordered child support -- $5 billion - fails to
reach families and kids who desperately need it.
And these working parents, mostly mothers, are
trying to keep their families going trying to work, keep the
kids on track, pay the bills. And they need that check every
month and they deserve it. And I believe that since I took
office we've made a very good start. We are now able to identify
50 percent more fathers of the kids of single moms; and we
increased by more than 40 percent the cases of child support
collections. And with the aggressive leadership of Governors
like your great Tommy Thompson, states collect over S2 billion
more in child support. And that's a whole lot of good kids who
are now getting some lunch money -- money that they deserve.
(Applause.)
And that's something you and Wisconsin can take
pride in. But the job's not finished. And today I want to build
on your success with a new initiative called Project Kids. And
Project Kids will require all states to recognize and enforce
other states' child support orders. And that will make it much
easier to cross borders and catch those deadbeat parents in other
states. (Applause.)
We will require organizations who receive support
from the Legal Services Corporation to devote 10 percent of their
federal funds to helping mothers who need legal help track down a
deadbeat dad. (Applause.) And we will say to deadbeat parents,
if you owe child support and you haven't paid, then you're going
to pay a price: You'll get no passport, no professional
licenses, no housing or student loans, or any other help from the
federal government until you do right by your children.
(Applause.) So the bottom is, if you haven't done what's right
for your kids, don't expect any help from Uncle Sam from this day
forward. (Applause.)
Now, by taking these steps, we think we can help
reduce the stress on so many families. We can help single
parents. And most importantly, we can lend a big hand to kids.
And now while we're on the subject, maybe it's worth
taking just a few minutes to consider Governor Clinton's record
with children. I hate to do this to you on this beautiful sunny
day here in Wisconsin. But in this area as in so many others,
Governor Clinton talks a good game, but his record leaves
something to be desired. Welfare is a kid's issue, because the
more we can get people off welfare and into work, the more we
strengthen the family. (Applause.)
And here in Wisconsin, you are the leading state.
Tommy Thompson is making real progress, promoting personal
responsibility. And Governor Clinton talks a good game, but when
you look behind the rhetoric, there's nothing there. He's got a
TV ad that talks about cutting the welfare rolls in Arkansas.
And what he neglects to mention is that while some people were
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leaving welfare, even more were going onto welfare. And since
Bill Clinton was elected Governor, Arkansas's welfare rolls have
increased by 19 percent, 13 percent faster than the rest of the
nation. (Applause.)
Now he says he wants to do for America what he's
done for Arkansas.
AUDIENCE: Booo --
THE PRESIDENT: I don't know whether that's a
promise or a threat. America deserves better than that.
(Applause.)
Look at the facts. Look at the facts about
Arkansas. In the late 1980s, Arkansas's rate of violent deaths
for teenagers soared at three times the national average. And
over the decade, child abuse reports shot up 130 percent. And
behind each one of those cases is a story of heartbreak. And
Arkansas kids deserve to have their hearts healed.
Arkansas faced a special crisis of abuse in the
state's foster homes. For years Governor Clinton ignored the
problem until he was sued by welfare advocates in his own state.
And only this summer, in the middle of his campaign, did he
settle a lawsuit and take any steps to improve these homes.
And now he's running around our great country,
claimed to be an advocate for children. I urge all Americans,
young and old to take a look, not just at his rhetoric but a hard
look at Governor Clinton's record. And I believe America can do
better, and I believe we must do better by the young people in
this country. (Applause.)
The economy is the major issue; let's look at it --
a major issue in this campaign. And when Bill Clinton became
Governor 12 years ago, Arkansas, yes, was one of the poorest
states in America. And today, Arkansas is still stuck at the
bottom. And Bill Clinton's policies are responsible. As
Governor, he raised and extended the sales tax, including a tax
on baby formula, vegetables and other groceries. And he raised
the gas tax, and he taxed mobile homes and cable tv; and just for
good measure he threw in a tax on beer. Now, how do you like
that one:
AUDIENCE: Booo --
THE PRESIDENT: I didn't think you guys would like
it. And, now, Governor Clinton says he's seen the light. And in
this campaign he's proposing at least S150 billion in new
spending. But don't worry, he says I'm going to get it all from
the rich, the people who make over $200,000 -- the top two
percent. Well, but here's the truth and here's the problem. To
get the money he needs for his plan -- the $150 billion that he's
promised in new taxes Governor Clinton would have to get his
money from every individual with taxable income over $36,000.
Now, these are not people on "The Lifestyles of the Rich and
Famous." And you deserve a break, not a further tax increase.
(Applause.)
AUDIENCE: Four more years! Four more years! Four
more years!
THE PRESIDENT: Look, you see, that's just the start
of the tax campaign, though, campaign against the middle class.
He has literally made hundreds of promises in this campaign. And
he hasn't said how he'll pay for any one of his new programs.
But his own hometown newspaper, the Pine Bluff Commercial says,
"If Congress followed the example that Bill Clinton set as
Governor of Arkansas, it would pass a program that hit the middle
class the hardest." We do not need that for the United States of
America. (Applause.)
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Now, the good Governor says he's going after all the
millionaires, but he'll end up hitting all the nurses and
teachers and cab drivers and construction workers. And I say you
pay enough to the tax man already. We do not need to add taxes
to the working families in this country. (Applause.)
And so it boils down to this: We cannot take a risk
of a candidate with no experience, no track record, whose ideas
and agenda are wrong for America. That is the basic thing.
Governor Clinton is wrong for America. (Applause.)
Let me tell you something. In the Oval Office you
face tough decisions. You cannot be on all sides of every
question. You've got to call them as you see them. And I've
made mistakes. Like any American, I'll admit it when I make a
mistake. But I believe I've been a good, strong leader willing
to make the tough calls -- (applause) -- and I'm a leader whose
ideas are right for America. And I stand before you today asking
for your support so that we can change America just as we have
changed the entire world.
And I want a second term in office so we can
continue to renew our schools, reform welfare, give our children
a better shot at the American Dream. And so we can continue to
make lives better for American children by matching the peace
around the world and by giving our kids peace of mind right here
at home. (Applause.)
Let me say something about -- in conclusion -- about
service to country. I am very proud that I served my country in
the uniform of the United States of America. (Applause.) And I
think that has helped me be a good Commander-in-Chief when we had
to stand up against aggression halfway around the world.
(Applause.)
And that standing up aggression -- against
aggression -- has changed the world. Don't listen to the
Governor who says we're less than Germany and slightly ahead of
Sri Lanka. We are the most respected nation on the face of the
Earth, admired by every country -- (applause) -- the friends we
have and those that used to be our foes. (Applause.)
And so now help me take that kind of leadership and
help me change America to make life better for every single
family in our great country. We are going to win Wisconsin, and
we are going to win the presidency because our ideas are right
for America, this generation, and generations to come.
And may God bless the United States of America, the
greatest country on the face of the Earth. (Applause.)
Thank you very, very much.
END
1:05 P.M. CDT
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press secretary
(Alcoa, Tennessee)
For Immediate Release
September 29, 1992
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT KNOXVILLE AIRPORT WELCOME
McGhee-Tyson Airport
Alcoa, Tennessee
12:11 P.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. What a great Tennessee
welcome.
AUDIENCE: Four more years! Four more years!
THE PRESIDENT: This is fantastic. Thank you,
Knoxville. Thank you very, very much. Thank you, Knoxville,
Tennessee. This is fantastic.
And let me thank Naomi Judd for being with us. I'm
the guy who's honored. What a wonderful entertainer and a great
personality and a wonderfully strong character we have standing
here today in Naomi Judd. (Applause.)
And may I salute your former -- some of you all's
former president of the great university here -- our marvelous
Secretary of Education Lamar Alexander. (Applause.) And another
Tennessean known nationally as a true leader, a true, honest,
decent, strong leader in a Congress that was crying out for it --
and still is -- I'm talking about Howard Baker. (Applause.)
And, you know, you hear a lot of calls -- everyplace
I go, people have brooms and they're yelling, "Clean House, clean
House. Change the Congress" And if we had more congressmen like
Jimmy Duncan -- (applause) -- and more like Don Sundquist and
Jimmy Quillen with us here today, we wouldn't have to clean
House. But since we do, help us clean House and get this country
moving again.
May I salute another old friend, longtime friend for
Barbara and me -- Victor Ashe, the Mayor of this city.
(Applause.) And also I understand our County Executive Dwight
Kessel is here. And that brings me also to another special
friend who's taking it out on the trail for me -- Ricky Skaggs.
I'm just delighted to be with him. (Applause.)
And standing over here, another good one, another
great one -- T.G. sheppard. Thank you very much for being with
us. (Applause.)
Now, first let me start with a word about the polls
and the talking heads. (Laughter.) Every one of them said that
Tennessee would lose to Georgia, and every one of them said that
Tennessee would lose to Florida. (Applause.) So much for the
polls, and so much for the talking heads. Enough of it. We're
going to win this election. (Applause.)
This campaign, like every campaign, is about a
simple question: What kind of America do you want for the young
people that are here today? And I'll tell you what kind of an
America I want and am working for -- an America that is not just
a military superpower, but the greatest economic superpower in
the entire world. And that means more jobs for the American
people. (Applause.)
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And I have laid out a comprehensive Agenda for
American Renewal -- a specific, integrated agenda to create
first $10-trillion economy. And we can get that happening by
moving to change the Congress and moving forward with my program.
(Applause.)
The Democrats don't like my evening talking about
it, but I am very proud of our record in ending and winning the
Cold War, proud of the way the sons and daughters of Tennessee
performed in the sands of Saudi Arabia. (Applause.) It was a
proud moment, not a moment to be forgotten. (Applause.)
And the Clinton ticket feels that they ought not to
-- I ought not to talk about foreign policy. I want to use my
experience to lead the way to new markets for American products
because that is how we are going to create good American jobs --
the same leadership that changed the world. Now let's make
America better and renewed. (Applause.)
But, look, we all know that if we're going to
compete abroad and do this --- what I talking about -- with
markets, we've got to make changes at home. It's small business
that creates two-thirds of the new jobs in the new economy. And
Governor Clinton promises small business higher taxes and more
red tape --
AUDIENCE: Booo --
THE PRESIDENT: -- and I promise relief from
regulation and taxation and, yes, relief from these crazy
lawsuits that are killing us in this country. (Applause.)
And if we're going to compete in this new world, in
this new economy, we must reform our schools. And I am very
proud of our great secretary of Education Lamar Alexander.
(Applause.) I am proud of our national America 2000 program;
proud that we're raising standards; proud that we're freeing up
the teachers -- and God bless them all -- freeing them up from
regulation and red tape; and proud that we are designing totally
new schools for a new century. And I thank our Secretary. And I
thank these communities in Tennessee that are working to rebuild
American education. (Applause.)
Lamar and I want to go further. The parents of
today's volunteers have the power to choose the best college for
their kids. And I want that same choice for elementary and high
school. And my G.I. Bill for Kids will give parents and
fundamental resources they need and the right to choose the best
schools for their kids -- whether they're public, private or
religious. (Applause.)
Now, these are some of my 1deas and what we're
fighting for and what this election is about. And I'm proud of
our record, and I'll stand by it in November. But if candidate
Clinton wants to talk about the past, then I say I'm ready. And
let's take a look at what's been going on in Arkansas.
(Applause.) Sorry to ruin your day, but we've got to look at the
record. (Applause.)
There's a lot you don't know about this man, and the
more you find out, the more you know is that he's wrong for
America. (Applause.) We cannot take a risk with this great
country of ours. And take a look at the issue of education. As
long as I'm standing here with some greats on education, let me
put it this way: Governor Clinton was part of the national
summit which set our education goals. And I've given him credit
for being -- participating in that, and so has Lamar Alexander.
But in Arkansas, his rhetoric does not match his
record. He talks about a high-tech economy that Arkansas is 48th
in the percent of students that high school diplomas. And three
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out of every four Arkansas high school graduates spend his first
year in college relearning what they were supposed to learn in
high school. And I think America must do must do a lot better
than that. (Applause.)
I think of Tennessee as a fair-play state when it
comes to race. And it's the same thing on every issue with him.
Governor Clinton says he's for civil rights. But Arkansas
doesn't even have a basic civil rights law. He says he's for a
clean environment. But the Institute of Southern Studies ranks
Arkansas 50th -- 50th in environmental policies. It's the only
place where mother fish teach baby fish to jog instead of to
swim. (Laughter.) It's so polluted in that river over there.
(Applause.)
Governor Clinton says he's been tough on crime. But
in the '80s Arkansas's crime increases far outstripped the
nation. And the Little Rock police say it all because they have
endorsed me for President of the United States of America.
(Applause.)
And now let's take a look at the economy. I know
America has had some tough times. I know families are concerned,
worried about the next job. Those out of work worried about how
they're going to get back to work. But understand, we are being
affected by a global economic slowdown. It isn't just the United
states. Look at Europe. Look at Canada. Look at other
countries around the world. And our competitors in Europe would
trade places with us in a minute. And, yes, Governor Clinton
offers America the European social welfare state policies --
AUDIENCE: B000 --
THE PRESIDENT: -- more government, more special
interest spending, more regulation, and more taxes on the middle
class. And we cannot let him do that to the taxpayers in this
country. (Applause.)
This is not simply campaign rhetoric. As Governor,
he raised and extended the sales tax, including a tax on baby
formula, vegetables and other groceries. He raised the gas tax.
He taxed mobile homes. And for those of you ESPN watchers, he
even taxed cable TV. And then he put a tax on beer just for an
add-on.
AUDIENCE: Booo --
THE PRESIDENT: I knew the college crowd wouldn't
like that too much. (Laughter.)
Governor Clinton now says, well, he's seen the
light. And in this campaign he's proposing at least -- and look
at the record -- $150 billion in new taxes, plus at least a $220
billion in new federal spending. But don't worry, he says, I'll
get it all from the rich, from the top two percent.
But the problem is -- here's the truth -- to get the
money that he needs for this plan -- everybody's that's analyzed
it says this: the $150 billion that he's promised -- billion
dollars that he's promised in new taxes, Governor Clinton would
have to get his money from every taxpayer and every individual
with taxable income over $36,000. And these are not people that
you see out there on "The Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous."
They deserve a break, not a tax increase. (Applause.)
And the problem is, this is just for openers. He'll
need hundreds of billions of dollars more to pay for every one of
these programs that he's proposed. And there's an old saying:
When you go hunting for ducks, hunt where the ducks are. Well,
he's hunting for ways to pay for all of his promises, and he's
going to go right smack to the middle class, because that's where
the bucks are. So watch your wallets. Watch your pocketbooks.
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He's coming right after you. And don't let him say anything
different. (Applause.)
And on this one -- on this one don't have to take my
word for it. Go right to his neighborhood. Go to Pine Bluff and
listen to the Pine Bluff Commercial. And here's what it says.
"If Congress followed the example that Bill Clinton set as
Governor of Arkansas, it would pass a program that hit the middle
class the hardest." And he's going to treat the middle class the
way Johnny Majors' team treated Cincinnati last Saturday.
(Applause.) Exactly. The Volunteers pounced on the Bearcats,
and he's going to pounce on your wallet. Look at the record. We
cannot let this happen to America. (Applause.)
I'll give you a factual example. Let's say you're a
nurse just starting out with about $22,000 a year in taxable
income. Governor Clinton would have you fork over another $430 a
year to the tax man. And I say that you ought to be able to use
that to help your kids' education, or pay the mortgage on the
house -- and not send it to the IRS in Washington, D.C.
(Applause.)
But he says, hey, forget about this, forget my
record, forget the facts, don't talk about Arkansas and my record
there. I am a different kind of Democrat. But what is different
about him? George McGovern -- Bill Clinton ran Texas for him in
1972. He learned his liberalism from George McGovern. And in
that campaign he was out there for George McGovern. Then Jimmy
Carter -- Bill Clinton wore the same moderate costume, but at
least Carter meant it, even though he brought us the highest
Misery Index in recent -- modern times.
And then Michael Dukakis -- Clinton nominated him in
an endless nomination speech, I might say. (Laughter.) And then
he praised the Massachusetts Miracle right before it went south
and the economy collapsed. America does not need this kind of
different Democrat. There are some wonderful Democrats out
there, but we don't need this kind -- this McGovern, Carter,
Dukakis Democrat. (Applause.)
Now, Governor Clinton wants you to trust that
America's economy is going to improve if you turn full control of
your paycheck over to the crew that already runs the United
states Congress. And he wants to tax and spend government
planners, those kind of planners to have total control over the
Executive Branch, too.
And they tried this 12 years ago. And we ended up
with double-digit inflation; we had interest rates sometimes as
high as 18 percent; and we had a Misery Index over 21 percent --
unemployment and inflation added together. And it took years to
ring inflation and high interest rates out of the American
economy. And I want to strengthen our economy and protect your
paycheck from the ravages of inflation. We cannot go the tax-
and-spend route anymore. (Applause.)
And it all boils down to this. At this time in our
history we simply cannot take the risk of Governor Clinton in the
White House. (Applause.)
You know, I've been in the Oval Office and I've
faced some tough decisions. It's not easy; you cannot be on all
sides of every question when you're a President of the United
States. And I stand before you today admitting mistakes, but
saying I called them as I saw them. I hope I brought the
character and integrity to this high office that you can respect
and appreciate. (Applause.)
And so I came here to ask for your support so that
we can get to work with the new members of Congress -- Democrat
and Republican alike -- to fix the problems that stand in the way
of this country; SO that we can reform our health care system and
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we can literally reinvent our schools; and so that we can retrain
the workers from one generation and create jobs for the next; so
that we can cut government spending and taxes and get this
economy moving again; and that we can pass an amendment to limit
the terms of members of the United States Congress and give the
government back to the people. (Applause.)
Now, if you want a guy that has a statistic for
every problem, your man is the Governor of Arkansas. He's got
more statistics that there are problems -- 38 percent of this, 28
percent of that. But he's got to face up to the fact that as
President you can't have it always, you've got to make the tough
calls.
And if you're looking for a leader of experience, a
leader ideas, a leader who shares your values, and a leader who
understands that America's real strength is not in government,
but in places like Alcoa; a leader you can trust, then I know
that I can count on your support. And I need it to be President
of the United States for four more years. (Applause.)
Let me say this: I am very proud of the sons and
daughters of Tennessee that have worn the uniform of the United
states of America. You are a great and proud Volunteer state.
(Applause.)
Governor Clinton wants us to forget that we have
changed the world. And I am not going to let him forget that the
young men and women that fought in Desert storm helped us change
the world and make it much more peaceful for every young person
here today. (Applause.)
I ask for your trust. I ask for your trust, and I
will not betray it. I ask for your vote. And I hope I have
earned it.
He can talk about the United states being lower than
Germany and someplace above sri Lanka. And I'll end this way:
We are the most decent, fairest, strongest country on the face of
the Earth. (Applause.) Let's not tear it down, let's build it
up. (Applause.) we are Americans. (Applause.)
And may God bless you all. And thank you very, very
much. (Applause.) Thank you so much. (Applause.)
END
12:30 P.M. EDT
#9458
BUIT9MA 86
THE WHITE HOUSE
to
Office of the Press Secretary
(Columbus Ohio)
1
For Immediate Release
September 26 1992
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT SPIRIT OF AMERICA SEND-OFF
old Mound Street Freight Yard
Columbus, Ohio
9:45 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Well, what a great day in Ohio. And
Barbara and I are delighted to be here. May I salute our
longstanding friends, George and Janet Voinovich, and say you are
very lucky in this state to have this man as your Governor.
(Applause.) And also I want to single out another one, and
that's Chalmers Wylie. He and I went to Congress on the same day
and he served Columbus with great distinction. If we had more
like him they wouldn't be yelling all the time, "Clean House, to
get rid of all those Democrats that have been there in control
for 38 years. For 38 years. (Applause.)
And I want to see John Kasich reelected. I
want to thank your great Mayor, Greg Lashutka. My gosh, you've
got a good one here in Columbus, Ohio. (Applause.) And also, if
you really want to help change this country, elect Mike Dewine to
the United States Senate. (Applause.)
And may I thank and give a special salute to the
Marching Tigers. Let others blow the saxophone -- (applause.)
Others can blow the saxophone, but I'll stand with the Purple
Pride of Pinkerton. You try to say that. (Laughter and
applause.)
No, it's great to be back in Ohio. It's a great,
beautiful day -- football weather. I should say Buckeye weather
here. (Applause.)
You know, over the next couple of days we're taking
our crusade to Ohio and to Michigan. Eight towns and cities;
over 233 miles. And we're going to talk about what it takes to
match peace around the world with peace of mind here at home.
And for four months another candidate for President has been
tearing down the United States of America, running the country
down. Maybe he's inhaling too many of those bus fumes.
(Applause.) I think he did inhale them.
Well, let's get that bus off the side of the road,
because on this train trip we're going to blow the whistle on
Governor Clinton. I am tired of his lousy record in Arkansas.
(Applause.)
And here's what we're going to do. We're going to
talk about what's right about America and what we're doing to
change it; what we need to do to change Congress -- change the
direction of the country. And then we're also going to talk
about what's going on down in Arkansas and who is doing that to
the good people of that state. He has a lousy record in Arkansas
and we don't need that for the United States of America.
(Applause.)
So for the next two days it's "all aboard, America."
The Spirit of America is on its way, and it's all aboard for a
better future where government serves the people, not the other
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EBUOH
way around. And it's all aboard for the freedom to save and
invest and, yes, to keep more of what?you earn And it's all
aboard for an agenda which can renew and literally change
America, just as America -- and I am proud to have been a
significant part of this has reduced the threat of nuclear war
for these young people here today. (Applause
And so what do we want for America? We want smart
schools and safe streets. We want to lower taxes and less
regulation. We want to strengthen families that are working,
hoping and building and dreaming. And that' very different than
what the Governor of Arkansas is proposing (Applause. )
You know, my granddad knew how America was blessed,
and he lived here in Columbus. His company, Buckeye Steel, made
couplings for the railroads. And my father was born here in
Columbus, Ohio. He was raised as a child, lived over on East
Broad Street for a while. And he knew how this city loved the
American spirit; how you lived it from one generation to the
next. And today, Barbara and I are very proud to begin this
voyage in a city which has blessed our family, a city that we
love.
For, you see, this train trip is much more than
about my reelection. It's about creating an America where every
day has that spirit of the 4th of July, the kind of America these
young people here today deserve. (Applause.)
And that is the real spirit of America Always been
and always will be.
And now we're off to Marysville and Arlington and
Bowling Green, and then on into Michigan -- the heart of America;
the real America. And with this spirit we see here today we are
going to win this election. (Applause.)
Thank you all very, very much. May God bless each
and every one of you. Thank you very, very much indeed
(Applause. All aboard.
AUDIENCE: Four more years! Four more years!
END
9:50 A.M CDT