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[Pan Am Flight 103-News Stories, 1991]
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[Pan Am Flight 103-News Stories, 1991]
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Records of the White House Office of Speechwriting (George H. W. Bush Administration)
Tony Snow Subject Files
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Originally Processed With FOIA(s):
FOIA Number:
S
FOIA
MARKER
This is not a textual record. This is used as an
administrative marker by the George Bush Presidential
Library Staff.
Record Group/Collection: George H.W. Bush Presidential Records
Collection/Office of Origin:
Speechwriting, White House Office of
Series:
Snow, Tony, Files
Subseries:
Subject File, 1988-1993
OA/ID Number:
13897
Folder ID Number:
13897-010
Folder Title:
[Pan Am Flight 103-News Stories, 1991]
Stack:
Row:
Section:
Shelf:
Position:
G
18
29
2
5
Services of Mead Data Central, Inc.
PAGE
2
2ND STORY of Level 1 printed in FULL format.
Copyright (c) 1991 Reuters
The Reuter Library Report
February 20, 1991, Wednesday, BC cycle
LENGTH: 318 words
HEADLINE: U.S. SENATE VOTES FOR DEATH PENALTY FOR TERRORIST MURDERERS
DATELINE: WASHINGTON, Feb 20
KEYWORD:
USA-TERRORISM
BODY:
The Senate voted on Wednesday to amend U.S. law to allow the death penalty
for terrorists who murder Americans either abroad or in the United States.
An attempt by opponents of capital punishment to kill the proposal was
defeated by a 74-23 vote.
The legislation, attached as an amendment to a bill revising export control
law by Pennsylvania Republican Arlen Specter, builds on current law extending
the reach of American justice overseas where Americans come under terrorist
attack.
Current law imposes life imprisonment for terrorist murder.
Specter recalled that many Americans had died in extremist acts abroad in
recent years, including 189 Americans among the 259 passengers killed in the
Pan-Am 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988.
He noted that the extraterritorial reach of U.S. law had been used when FBI
agents apprehended an alleged terrorist on a boat in the Mediterranean and
brought him to the United States to face trial.
Earlier the U.S. Senate approved a Specter amendment that would provide for
criminal and civil penalties for foreign persons who produce, transport or use
biological or chemical weapons that kill, maim or injure U.S. nationals abroad.
The parent bill imposes sanctions on countries that have used chemical or
biological weapons in violation of international law and individuals who help
these nations to acquire or use such weapons.
Chemical weapons were used by both sides during the Iran-Iraq war.
The bill was identical to one President George Bush vetoed last year, saying
it did not give him enough flexibility in enforcement of the sanctions. The veta
came during the congressional adjournment 50 Congress had no opportunity to try
to override.
The House of Representatives had passed the measure by a majority well in
excess of the two-thirds needed to override a veto. In the Senate 79 members had
urged Bush not to veto the legislation.
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3RD STORY of Level 1 printed in FULL format.
Copyright (c) 1991 Federal Information Systems Corporation;
Federal News Service
NOVEMBER 14, 1991, THURSDAY
SECTION: STATE DEPARTMENT BRIEFING
LENGTH: 7149 words
HEADLINE: STATE DEPARTMENT
REGULAR BRIEFING
BRIEFER: RICHARD BOUCHER
BODY:
MR. BOUCHER: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Again, thank you for your
patience and for waiting.
Unless somebody wants me to do something else, I thought I'd start off talking
about Pan Am 103.
Q -- the government's theme today, so go ahead.
MR. BOUCHER: I think it's your theme, too, Ralph.
You've seen the briefings by the Justice Department on the indictments and
the criminal responsibility for the bombing of Pan Am 103. We've made
available to you and have in the press office the indictment itself and a
paper on the Libyan government's continuing support for terrorism.
I want to run through some basic facts about the bombing and how it was
organized. I want to make some things clear from the outset. The bombers were
Libyan government intelligence operatives. This was a Libyan government
operation from start to finish. We hold the Libyan government responsible for
the murder of 270 people over Lockerbie, Scotland, on December 21st, 1988.
Today, Scottish authorities and the US Department of Justice charged two Libyan
officials with carrying out the December 1988 bombing of Pan Am 103 over
Lockerbie, Scotland. All 259 people aboard the aircraft and 11 people on the
ground were killed. The charges are based on evidence that directly and
conclusively links Abdel Al-Basset Al-Megrahi, a senior Libyan intelligence
official, and Lamen Fhimah, the former manager of the Libyan Airlines office in
Malta, and other unidentified co-conspirators to the suitcase containing the
bomb and to its insertion into the baggage system leading to Pan Am flight 103.
The evidence also directly links Al-Megrahi to the Swiss company that
manufactured the sophisticated electronic timer used in the attack. The timer
is unique; it's produced solely by a single Swiss firm. And the entire
production lot was delivered to the Libyan external security organization.
Two intelligence operatives were indicted. But don't mistake this. The bombing
of Pan Am 103 was not a rogue operation. An operation of this magnitude,
involving people so close to the Libyan leadership, could only have been
undertaken with the approval of senior Libyan officials. That is the pattern of
past Libyan terrorist operations. That is the pattern of the Pan Am 103
attack.
Al-Megrahi is a well-connected senior Libyan intelligence official whose
extensive experience in the field of civil aviation, cargo movement, and small
business operations helped him stage the Pan Am 103 bombing. Al-Megrahi works
closely with his first cousin, Said Rashid (ph), a leading architect and
implementer of Libya's terrorist policies and a powerful member of Libya's inner
circle. It was Rashid (ph) who earlier purchased the timer.
Abdullah Al-Sinusi (ph) was Al-Megrahi's immediate supervisor in the external --
the external security organization in the fall of 1988. French judicial
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authorities have lodged criminal charges against Al-Sinusi (ph) for the
September 1989 bombing of UTA-772.
Ibrahim Al-Bishari, currently Libya's Foreign Minister, used Al-Megrahi's office
at the Swiss firm as an accommodation address in Zurich and claimed that
Al-Megrahi worked directly under him as director of the Center for Strategic
Studies.
The terrorist case against the Libyan regime does not begin or end with the
destruction of Pan Am 103. We've seen a consistent pattern of Libyan-inspired
terrorism that continues to the present. The charges made today, however, are
based solely on the evidence gathered during the criminal investigation. The
Libyan government is responsible for this monstrous act, the murder of 270
citizens of 21 countries in the bombing of Pan Am 103.
We're in touch with our friends and allies regarding steps the international
community should take to ensure that action is taken to punish the government of
Libya in a way which will deter others.
With that --
Q Richard, are alleging that Libyan leader Mu'ammar Qadhafi was personally
responsible, that it has reached the highest offices of the Libyan government?
MR. BOUCHER: I think 1 said to you, Frank, that we don't think that an operation
of this magnitude could have been carried out without approval and consent of
the senior Libyan leadership. I have named names of people against whom we have
clear and compelling evidence of having conducted the bombing.
Q Richard, as you --
MR. BOUCHER: We'll probably hear an opening statement when we're done with this
briefing. We'll have to clean it up, but we'll make it available as soon as
possible.
Q As you know, the families are extremely unhappy with certain aspects of this
indictment because there is no mention of Syria, Iran, Ahmed Jibril, the
PFLP-GC, so on and so forth. And they accuse the US government of being so
interested in getting Syria engaged in the Gulf war, 50 interested in getting
Syria to the peace process, that the US is no longer interested in pressing the
case against Syria's active involvement in support of terrorism. How do you
respond to their accusations?
MR. BOUCHER: John, that's not the case. There was no political influence over
this indictment. We followed the evidence where it led, and let me describe
to you where the evidence - the ways in which the evidence did not lead to the
PFLP-GC. You have to bear in mind that the indictments have to be based on
clear evidence, not supposition. In this case, there is no evidence linking the
PFLP-GC to the bombing of Pan Am 103. The possibility that the PFLP-GC was
responsible for this particular act was exhaustively investigated. It's clear
that in the fall of 1988, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine
General Command planned a series of terrorist attacks targeted at civil
aviation. As you know, that organization has historically operated from Syria.
In 1988 the organization began to receive significant operational support from
Iran.
Our conclusion, as fully reflected in the indictment, is that all the evidence
shows the culpability of Libyan officials for this specific act. The strongest
evidence in that regard is the timer in the Pan Am 103 bomb. It was
unquestionably a Libyan timer, a clear Libyan signature. The PFLP-GC radio bomb
was significantly different from the bomb used in Pan Am 103.
It's also our conclusion that the arrest of the PFLP-GC operatives in Germany in
the fall of 1988 derailed that group's efforts to attack civil aviation. As in
any criminal matter, however, the possibility remains of additional evidence and
additional information. And I can state categorically that any such information
would be pursued aggressively.
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Q It is also believed by some intelligence officials that once the effort in
1988 in Germany was derailed, that they handed over information and intelligence
to the Libyans so they could proceed. You have found no such link?
MR. BOUCHER: We considered the possibility, particularly the possibility that
the timer might have been borrowed from Libya. However, there's just no
evidence to support that kind of speculation. All the evidence in the case
conclusively demonstrates that the operation that destroyed Pan Am 103 was
carried out by Libyan operatives.
Q Is Syria still on the terrorist list? Are you debating removing Syria from
that list? And what is the bill of particulars regarding Syria and its support
of terrorism? Do you still believe they support -- actively support terrorist
groups?
MR. BOUCHER: The -- first, Syria is still on the terrorism list. No, there's no
consideration being given to taking it off. You'll see in our previous reports
on the pattern of global terrorism the involvement that leads there. And I
think one of the particulars that I would cite is the -- that the PFLP-GC, which
I said was involved in terrorist planning back then, we continue to see them as
a dangerous terrorist organization that's still a functioning international
terrorist organization. It has its headquarters in Syria, and it has ties to
Iran, as I just mentioned. Q Speaking of the report on global patterns of
terrorism, there hasn't been one issued yet this year. Will it be issued or has
a decision been made that this paper substitutes for that and eliminates the
other?
MR. BOUCHER: I assume this will. I'm trying to remember when it usually comes
out. Isn't it early in the year?
(Cross talk.)
MR. BOUCHER: It comes out early spring, right?
Q I thought it comes out in the fall.
Q Spring.
MR. BOUCHER: I think it comes out in the spring for the previous calendar year.
And the one for this year has already been issued.
Q Richard, you said that there's a consistent pattern that suggests that these
Libyan activities continue to the present. Could you be more specific?
MR. BOUCHER: Let me first of all refer you to the paper that we're pulling out,
a little booklet that describes Libya's continuing support for terrorism. And
then let me hit a couple highlights of that.
Going back, to some extent you'll remember some of the incidents that Libya was
specifically involved in. In the early '80s they provided passports to the Abu
Nidal organization. They conducted the attack on an El Al ticket counter in
Vienna Airport, December '85. Libya also sponsored the bombing of the La Belle
Disco. I think you're aware of Libya's involvement with the attack -- the
attempted attack on Israel in May of 1990. That was what we called the Tiny
Star incident, when we put out information on that.
Libyan involvement in terrorism today remains extensive. Tripoli is one of the
largest financers of terrorists worldwide and it continues to permit terrorist
groups to operate at camps throughout Libya. In the booklet you'll 525 a list
of the major camps and who works there.
In addition, Libya provides terrorist support to various organizations, Abu
Nidal organization which is headquartered in Tripoli. Libya provides major
training facilities and several hundred million dollars annually. They provided
well over one million dollars in 1990 to the PFLP-GC which was responsible for
the bombings of two US military trains in Germany in 1987 and 1988.
The PLF elements remain based in Libya. This group has a long history of
terrorist attacks including the Achille Lauro and as I mentioned the Tiny Star.
The provisional IRA continues -- Libya continues to maintain ties with that
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group. Libya has ties to the PKK, the Kurdish separatist group that has carried
out numerous attacks on Turkish targets. In addition, there is evidence of
Libyan providing at least $7 million since 1987 to the Communist Party of the
Philippines and the New Peoples' Army in the Philippines, and the book also
mentions ties to the Haitian Liberation Organization, an organization in Costa
Rica, the Tupac Amaru in Peru, and the Manuel Rodriguez Patriotic Front in
Chile.
Q Richard, coming back for a moment to something you said earlier, and I don't
-- I wasn't able to write down everything you said about Syria, but when asked
about Syria, you talked about our conclusion being that all of the evidence
shows the culpability of Libya. Is there any evidence in this case of
involvement by Syria?
MR. BOUCHER: I think in this particular bombing, not that I am aware of. I
think Justice may handle that in more detail at some of their briefings, but the
point that I was making was that the PFLP-GC, which is headquartered in Syria,
was planning to attack civil aviation. We believe that the arrests by the
Germans disrupted those plans, and that this bombing of Pan Am 103 was
conducted separately by the Libyans.
Q I guess what I am trying to get at is a minute ago you said that $100 million
was paid by Libyans to the PFLP-GC in --
MR. BOUCHER: One million.
Q I'm sorry, one million, okay -- to the PFLP-GC as recently as 1990. I going
to have to go back and see what you actually said. But -- so my question is, if
they are continuing to fund the PFLP-GC, is the US government satisfied that the
financing aspects of the Pan Am 103 bombing was not in any way tied to Syrians
or for that matter --
MR. BOUCHER: No, that's not the point. The point was PFLP-GC has its
headquarters in Syria, has ties to Iran, gets funding from Libya, and was
planning some attacks on civil aviation. It's just that they didn't do this
one.
Q You said that you and the international community would be looking at ways of
dealing with Libya. Such as? I mean, you already have an embargo. What else
can you possibly do to Libya to ostracize it yet further than it's already been
ostracized?
MR. BOUCHER: Jan, all options are open to assure that those responsible are
punished and to deter others from carrying out such attacks. No decisions have
been made.
Q Richard, the Secretary, during the process of trying to put together a Middle
East peace process, extended an invitation to Libya to join in the talks. Is
that invitation still open?
(Pause.)
Q It's a serious question; I'm not joking.
MR. BOUCHER: I know it's a serious question, Mary. I don't have any change in
that. I have not seen any interest on the part of Libya in participating,
either.
Q The invitation still stands?
MR. BOUCHER: Our invitation to the Arab Maghreb Union and the countries thereof
to participate in the peace process if they were interested still stands. And I
think you're aware of the countries that have expressed some interest in
participating.
Q Is there any indication that the intentions of the Popular Front, the PFLP-GC,
have changed since the, oh, dozen or so trips the Secretary of State has made to
Syria before and after the war?
MR. BOUCHER: I guess, Saul, the answer to that is we still see them as a
functioning terrorist operation. We, as you know, have had a number of
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exchanges with the Syrian government on the subject of terrorism.
Q I'm trying to find out whether they've done any good.
MR. BOUCHER: Well, let me sort of review the record on this. We've had some
frank exchanges with the government of Syria on terrorism matters, including the
continuing investigation of Pan Am 103, although the investigation was
conducted independently of diplomatic contacts with foreign governments. Syriam
officials at the highest levels informed the US that they had conducted their
own investigation and had no evidence that Jibril's group did the bombing of
Pan Am 103 and the US has no evidence to the contrary.
Further, Syrian officials have stated that if they were given such evidence,
they would take action against the perpetrators, including the PFLP-GC if that
was the party responsible for the bombing.
Q But Richard, that's not the point. The point -- okay, so they're not involved
in 103. But as you say, they were getting ready to do some other things and
presumably they have the same intent. Now I mean, the intent has not changed.
They're still a dangerous terrorist organization that had an interruption
because of the arrests in Germany. I'm trying to find out whether as a result
of our dozen trips to Syria whether Syria has restrained this group in any kind
of way 50 that they would not be involved in future 103s.
MR. BOUCHER: I guess the only answer I can give to that, Saul, is that we've had
a number of exchanges with the Syrian government. AS you know, the Secretary
has discussed this during his meetings in Damascus. We, I think, have described
before for you the differences that we have over the issue of terrorism with the
government of Syria. It's an issue that we continue to pursue, but I don't -
you know, I don't have any resolution at this point.
Q Has anyone from the US government attempted to deliver to the Libyans at the
UN, for example, indictments, warrants, requests for extradition and any of
the normal legal, gobbledygook that you have to do to try and get your hands on
these guys?
MR. BOUCHER: We don't have an extradition treaty with Libya.
Q I know, but you would still go ahead and try to ---
MR. BOUCHER: We are looking at a range of options as far as possibilities of
gaining custody of these people for prosecution. At this point, we have not
communicated with the Libyan government.
Q You have not communicated with them.
MR. BOUCHER: No.
Q And would you care to discuss the other possibilities The long arm of the
law statute and all of that sort of stuff?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm afraid I would not.
Q You would not care to.
Q The US has a record now of at two cases of using attempting extradition
without the permission of the country involved. One in the case of Eygpt, I
believe, and then one in the case of Panama. And that's right. There are other
cases. That's right. Are those among the options that are open for
consideration or are you ruling any of those things out?
MR. BOUCHER: We are exploring the entire range of options. We do not however
have an extradition treaty with Libya. And there are alternatives to formal
extradition. As you point out, our general feeling is that Libya cannot hide
behind its internal law as any excuse for avoiding its international
obligations.
Q Would you the US go so far as to -- as it has in the past to kidnap an
individual in mid-air in an attempt to bring them to justice, in the phrase of
the US government at the time?
MR. BOUCHER: Ralph, I'm not going to talk about particular options at this
point. We're exploring a full range of options.
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Q I don't recall whether you said - I think you said there were consultations
with allies. Now that we're accusing the government of Libya of murdering 270
people, I just wondered whether there is going to be some request to the UN to
do the same kinds of things economically that the United States did when Kuwait
was invaded, whether those are among the options we're considering.
MR. BOUCHER: Saul, at this point I'm afraid I just have to tell you that we're
discussing a full range of options, we're considering a full range of options.
We're starting the process of talking to countries about what the next steps
are. We have the evidence and the information that we're sharing with foreign
governments. But I don't have anything further to try to examine or explore
specific steps at this point.
Q Would the United States like to see Libya sort of declared an outlaw state
that we think it is?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, exactly what form our response and the international
response is going to take is something that I'm just not going to speculate on
at this point.
Q Richard, one of the men you were talking about as being linked to the senior
of the two men who was indicted today was - had been -- was indicted 15 days
ago or whatever by the French. And you mentioned a number of other people who
have not been indicted in this case but who are high officials. Is there any
link between the French indictments two weeks ago and these today?
MR. BOUCHER: These were independent investigations. Both investigations have
independently identified Libyan officials as responsible for the bombings. Our
investigation of course continues, and there's some aspects I can't discuss in
detail. The French magistrate issued warrants for the arrest of four Libyan
officials on October 30th, and we of course respect the independence and
judgment of those in the French judicial system. And while the investigation
into the bombing of UTA 772 is a separate matter in the hands of French
officials, US investigators have been in contact with their French counterparts.
I think in a specific sense, the bombers and the individuals who were indicted
or charged in these cases were separate. In a more general sense I think you
see the Libyan intelligence organization involved in both cases.
Q Richard, do you have any new information about the chemical plant which the
Libyans are building - Rabta?
MR. BOUCHER: Rabta - not I don't, I'm afraid.
Q What was the last -
Q (Off mike) -- for a while?
Q Not yet, not yet.
Q In the old days, Libya's principal supplier was the Soviet Union. Do you know
anything about the Soviet role, if any, in Libya nowadays? And if the Soviets
aren't up to very much, where is Libya getting its military equipment and
military technology and that sort of thing?
MR. BOUCHER: It's not something I checked on today, George. I really don't have
an update. As far as the Soviet relationship with Libya, you'll just have to
check with them.
Q Just to clear it up, I assume that in saying that there's no evidence of
Syrian involvement, that we're also saying there's no evidence of Iranian
involvement, indirectly or directly, in 103? Is that -- can you --
MR. BOUCHER: The evidence is in a lengthy indictment and lengthy briefings by
the Justice Department. I'm not going to try to rehash everything that's in
there. The ties to the PFLP-GC by Syria and Iran are clear, but the involvement
-- there's no evidence to say the PFLP-GC was involved in this bombing.
Q And there's no evidence that the Libyans were doing this at the behest of
Iran.
MR. BOUCHER: Yeah, that's not part of the evidence.
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Q Is the US considering anything with regard to the World Court on dealing with
this, or is that not --
MR. BOUCHER: Well, I'm afraid I'm just not going to speculate on the future
response and the next steps.
Q Where there's murder, there's motive. What is the motive? What's the
allegation? Why would Libya consider and execute, indeed, as you've charged,
such a heinous crime?
MR. BOUCHER: I guess there's just a few things to say about that. First, that
there's just absolutely no justification for this kind of murder, whatever
claims people might make about their motives. We haven't examined Libyan
motives, haven't reached any conclusions for that. I would just point out that
Libya has a consistent pattern of using terrorism and that this case fits that
pattern.
Q Richard, when you say that the United States is in touch with French officials
and other governments, sharing the information and so on, is the United States
doing the same thing with the United Nations in any way?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not aware that we've done anything specifically at the United
Nations overnight. Of course, we're in touch with a number of other governments
and they are UN members.
Q Is the US using the UN as a mechanism in any way to pursue -- well, I mean,
you're --
MR. BOUCHER: Ralph, you keep trying to draw me into what we're doing about the
next steps.
Q Only because you said that you were consulting with other governments.
MR. BOUCHER: I said we're in touch with other governments. I'm not aware that
overnight we've done anything at the United Nations, and I'll stop there.
Q Can you tell us about how many other governments you've been in touch with
overnight on this case, or which other governments? That might be enlightening.
MR. BOUCHER: No, I'm not in a position to specify (the list ?).
Q Is it limited only to the other governments that are directly involved, i.e.,
those who had nationals on board Pan Am 103, or are there governments that are
not directly involved with the bombing?
MR. BOUCHER: As we said, there were 21 countries that had nationals on board
Pan Am 103. I haven't gone through and compared the lists. We were in touch
with a number of other governments overnight. Obviously, we've been in touch --
working closely with British officials and the Scottish authorities throughout
this. We've been in touch with the French during the course of their
investigation that had similar links to intelligence, Libyan intelligence
services. That's about as far as I can go for the moment.
& You don't know if you plan a Dilateral effort By the United States in dealing
with Italy and France, fur example, about, unce ayain, trying tu yet them to
pull back their commercial ties to Libya? You have no particular diplomatic
plan at this point to further isolate them?
MR. BOUCHER: John, at this point, I have no particular diplomatic plan to
announce to you.
Q Richard, are you contemplating a -- such -- is the State Department - I know
you aren't --- but is the State Department contemplating further action against
Libya of that nature, trying to isolate?
MR. BOUCHER: Once again, I'm not in a position to get into the next steps --
what we might be contemplating, what we might be planning. We're in touch with
other governments, we're talking to them about next steps and what we might do
together, and I'm sure the information will come out at the appropriate time.
Howard?
Q I just find it a little strange why you're not in a position to get into next
steps. You have a glossy, white paper with nice, hand-drawn pictures and it's
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a real PR campaign, it seems, with the public reading of the indictment and
everything. And it would seem that steps would have been prepared, there would
have been a certain intent in which direction to go, and I don't understand why
you can't communicate that with us.
MR. BOUCHER: Howard, I don't know how to answer your question, really. We have
- WE now have indictments that were just handed down and announced. We now
have evidence and information, voluminous evidence and information, and a large
indictment that we can make available to you and to other governments for them
to digest and to look at. And we are muw, at that puint, treyinming tu draw the
conclusions with other governments on what the future steps should be.
Q Well, let me put it another way -- I mean, obviously, because of the
narrowness of the indictment, we'd like these people brought to justice,
right?
MR. BOUCHER: Yeah.
& But what would -- but, diplomatically, politically, what would the United --
the United States is accusing Libya uf murdering these people. I mean, that's
what you're out here to do. So what would the United States like to see the
world do with a government that has murdered 270 people aboard an airliner?
MR. BOUCHER: In a general sense, Saul, do exactly what I said before. First of
all, obviously ---
Q Well, I mean, would you like to see them -- would like to see the rest of the
world - would you like --
MR. BOUCHER: -- we want to pursue the judicial process and judicial justice,
generally.
Q Yeah, I know, but -
MR. BOUCHER: Second of all, I said we were talking to other countries about
appropriate further steps that would punish Libya for its responsibility and
would deter others who might want to do something like that.
Q But you're not -- but you're not saying what specifically we'd like --
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not going to specify those steps at this point.
Q -- we'd like to see these people do, these countries do.
MR. BOUCHER: We're going to talk about those and 52e what we can work out with
the other countries.
Patrick?
Q Richard, American oil companies are still allowed to deal with Libya in the
interest of national security, are they not?
MR. BOUCHER: I haven't checked on that, I presume that's -- you can get that
from the Treasury Department. It's under their regulations.
Q I assume you'd like to see the Swiss company stop selling timing devices to
Libya, right?
MR. BOUCHER: Saul, you can make all kinds of assumptions at this point. When I
have a catalog of next steps, or somebody else has a catalog of next steps to
announce, we'll just rush up here and tell you right away.
Q There's one thing that is missing from this White Paper, and that is any
report of any Libyan terrorist activity for the last 15 months. Now, if there
hasn't been anything, to what does the United States attribute the sudden quiet
on the side --- part of Libya? In '90 is that last thing that's reported in this
White Paper.
MR. BOUCHER: Somewhere in here - no, I'm not looking for the White Paper, I'm
looking for the way to give you the better answer on that. (Pause.) Well,
somewhere in here it instructs me to tell you that while we don't have any clear
evidence of direct involvement by Libya in terrorist acts for about the past
year, we have to remind you first of all that sometimes it takes many years, as
it did in this case, to develop that kind of evidence --- and second of all, to
point out what is in the booklet -- that Libya continues to operate training
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camps, it continues to offer financial support, and it continues to host a
number of terrorist groups.
Q Anything to update us on the Haitian refugee question?
MR. BOUCHER: I think the Pentagon has gone through this somewhat already, and
I'm sure you can get probably more up-to-date information from the Coast Guard
on the exact status of the people.
Yesterday afternoon, about 480 Haitians were brought ashore from Coast Guard
vessels to the US naval base at Guantanamo to receive temporary humanitarian
assistance in the form of medical care, food, and lodging. There are over 200
Haitians, many of whom were picked up yesterday, on Coast Guard vessels at sea.
We continue to work with the UN High Commissioner for Refugees and a number of
other countries to find a solution to this problem. INS personnel aboard the
ships continue to conduct detailed interviews with the Haitians. We are doing
this with a view towards taking in those who would qualify for asylum.
Q Are there any other countries besides Belize that have expressed in interest
in keeping some of them?
MR. BOUCHER: At this point, I think Belize is the only one that I've seen a
public statement from, and I'm not at this point in a position to name other
countries who might be interested.
Q I'd like to know what's the US policy in relation to the sale of nuclear
blasts by a Soviet private company called Cheta (ph) as published by the New
York Times last week.
MR. BOUCHER: Yeah, I think last week -- let's see. We're in luck. The provision
by nuclear weapons states to non-nuclear weapons states of potential benefit to
peaceful nuclear explosions is explicitly controlled by Article V of the Nuclear
Non-proliferation Treaty. Such benefits are not freely available -- I think the
Article said something about to anyone with cash -- (laughs) -- rather the
treaty dictates stringent conditions and procedure that would have to be
followed. The NPT prohibits the actual transfer of control of any nuclear
explosive device to a non-nuclear weapons state. The USSR is a party to the
Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty and the US government is confident that it
fully recognizes its obligations.
The US and the USSR are also parties to the Peaceful Nuclear Explosives Treaty
which controls such explosions. For our part, the US abandoned its own nuclear
-- peaceful nuclear explosion program as uneconomic. However, the USSR has
continued to explore applications for such explosions.
I don't think I can comment on technical credibility of the idea that was in the
report, but we would share some of the concerns expressed about political and
environment matters. It is of course essential that any nuclear cooperation
with non-nuclear weapons states not contribute to nuclear proliferation, and it
would (have?) to follow, if such a thing were to occur, very, very closely these
requirements that are stringently laid out in the treaty.
Q We have learned - just to be Latin American alone -- that nationals of
Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, and Cuba have made business contacts with this
Cheta (ph) Company in Moscow. Could you confirm that?
MR. BOUCHER: No, I don't have any information on that
Q Richard, staying on the Soviet Union, do you have anything further on the hunt
for the missing US POW? The American Embassy in Moscow told the BBC this
morning that they had not received any orders to send an officer to Kazakhstan
and that what you suggested then wasn't true.
MR. BOUCHER: My Embassy? (Laughs.)
Q Your Embassy in Moscow told us that, yeah. (Laughter.)
MR. BOUCHER: Do you have any names?
Q (Laughing) -- I can get them for you, Richard, afterwards.
MR. BOUCHER: Okay, let me run down at least what they tell us they are doing,
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which I hope is more authoritative than what you're reporting, Jan. We've
obviously been in touch with our Embassy in Moscow.
First of all, we don't yet have any confirmation of the claims in the November
3rd "Kommersant" (ph) article. The claims are being investigated fully by the
Embassy. For the moment, the Embassy is investigating this report in Moscow
with Soviet authorities, and they expect to send an officer to Kazakhstan
shortly. So, that's exactly where they stand on this.
Q Do you have anything more on this upcoming meeting here at the State
Department with a team of Soviet officials? Could you tell us who they're going
to be meeting with, and what exactly they're going to be doing?
MR. BOUCHER: Okay. The meeting next week will be in Washington on November 20
and 21. This will be the first meeting of the newly formed US-Soviet working
group on the future security agenda. The group was first proposed in a speech
by Secretary Baker.
The purpose of the working group will be to promote greater mutual understanding
of the rapidly changing international security environment and of the security
challenges each side will be facing in that environment. It will be an informal
future-oriented discussion group, rather than a negotiating body dealing with
operational matters. The US delegation, which will include US government
officials in the security area, will be led by Dennis Ross, Director of the
Department of State's Policy Planning Staff. The Soviet team will be led by
Aleksandr Yakovlev, a member of President Gorbachev's Presidential Consultative
Council.
Q Richard, when you say security issues, can you be any more specific at all
about what I mean, what -- as far as the United States is concerned, what's
on the agenda?
MR. BOUCHER: Mary, this is a broadranging group to discuss broad things like
changes in the international environment. It's informal. It's future oriented.
It doesn't have a specific agenda that I'm aware of of negotiating points or
things that have to be worked out.
Q Do you have an update on the situation of the --
Q I'm sorry. I'm really sorry.
Q Do you have an update on the results of the OAS mission to Haiti?
MR. BOUCHER: The mission returned to Washington early this morning. They made
an announcement yesterday in Port-au-Prince that I can detail with you. They'1
report to a closed session of the OAS permanent council this afternoon at 3:30.
The mission consulted with a wide range of Haitians. They reached an agreement
that was announced in Port-au-Prince last night. Briefly, the agreement
provides for several things. It provides for talks to take place next week
outside of Haiti between Haitian legislators and representatives of President
Aristide's government with the objective of reaching a solution to restore
constitutional order. It provides for an OAS mission to assess the human rights
situation in Haiti and for an OAS team to assess Haiti's humanitarian needs. We
applaud the mission for its important accomplishment, and we urge all parties to
work constructively to resolve the current crisis.
Q Also, does the US have any direct contacts with Cedras, the coup leader?
MR. BOUCHER: That's a question I'll have to look into. I'll have to check.
Q Do you have anything on the effects of the embargo on Haiti?
MR. BOUCHER: Not at this point, no. I think if you look at some of the
statements that we've made, I think we've put up copies of statements by our
ambassador about the concerns that the embargo is having an effect.
Q Has the coup leader signed off on this agreement that these talks will take
place next week?
MR. BOUCHER: Who has specifically signed off on it down there, I don't know.
The OAS mission, as I said, did talk to a wide range of Haitians, both inside
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and outside the current regime, and this was the agreement that they reached.
Q If it's nobody inside the regime, it doesn't really --
MR. BOUCHER: I assume it is, Chris, but I don't know who signed off on it. The
agreement was that talks would take place between the Haitian legislators and
representatives of Aristide's government.
Q Has the US offered its good offices to host those talks?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't have a location for you. The OAS would have to put that
out. But I haven't heard if Washington ís being mentioned
Q (Off mike.)
MR. BOUCHER: Or the United States. I'm not aware that we have, Ralph, or that
we've been asked.
Q Could you update us on the massacre in East Timor do you have any figures at
the moment?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't have any new figures. What we've seen is the Indonesian
government has announced its intention to launch an investigation into the
tragic events in East Timor. We're gratified to see that announcement. We're
making our very serious concern known to the government of Indonesia in Jakarta,
and by calling in the Indonesian ambassador here in Washington this afternoon.
We're urging a prompt and complete investigation, followed by appropriate
disciplining of those determined to have used excessive force.
In addition, our embassy in Jakarta is sending a team to East Timor early
tomorrow to assess the situation. We believe that nothing that may have taken
place could justify a military reaction of this magnitude, resulting in such a
large loss of life by unarmed civilians.
Q Who is their ambassador in DC?
MR. BOUCHER: It's - Ambassador Ramly will be meeting with Deputy Assistant
Secretary Kenneth Quinn at 2:00 pm.
Q Richard, on another area -
Q No, before you go to another area, do you have any readouts on the meeting
here yesterday of the Portugese Ambassador and the State Department.
MR. BOUCHER: No.
Q And do you have any comment to the initiative by Senator Claiborne Pell on
cutting aid --- military aid to Indonesia, in his words, as a "credible response*
to this atrocity? That's what I think the New York Times -- New York Times
said.
MR. BOUCHER: We -- first of all, we agree with Senator Pell's condemnation of
the killings. We share his concern about the situation there. And WE would
agree with the sense of the Congress resolution expressing that condemnation.
Our military assistance program is -- in fiscal year 1992 is a request for $2.3
million. It's entirely for the training and education of Indonesian military
personnel. And we think that a continued and well-focused military assistance
program for Indonesia can contribute to the professionalization of the
Indonesian military, and these kinds of programs expose the trainees to
democratic ideas and humanitarian standards.
Q Is there anything you care to tell us about Middle East peace bilateral,
multilateral talks?
MR. BOUCHER: Nothing new today.
Q Any announcements you'd like to --
MR. BOUCHER: Nothing new today.
Q -- flood us with?
Q Your consultations haven't produced any results at this point? Is that
correct?
MR. BOUCHER: I think the Secretary, when he talked about it, said we'll give
them a period of time more or less on the order of two weeks. We haven't done
anything new at this point.
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Q Richard, what prompted the decision to give Bulgaria MFN?
MR. BOUCHER: I have something that I think was just taken from a White House
announcement. The President signed a joint resolution extending MFN (tariff ?)
treatment to products of Bulgaria pursuant to our bilateral trade agreement.
The President said, "In part this resolution is a milestone in our rapidly
evolving relations with Bulgaria. My signature on the resolution represents
American support of the Bulgarian people's historic decision for democracy, a
free market economy and the rule of law."
Q How close are you to doing the same for Romania?
MR. BOUCHER: I have nothing new on MFN for Romania. I think we expressed last
week after -- let's see, after Eagleburger met with Reverend Tokes (sp), I think
some of our concerns about the situation in Romania and how that affected MFN.
Q Martin Lee of Hong Kong was in town last week and he is sort of requesting
United States help in getting democracy for Hong Kong, and he is also
questioning why six million people from Hong Kong should be turned over to
Communist rule in 1997. He is sort of questioning the whole accord, the
British-Chinese accord. Is there any indication that Mr. Baker is going to
bring this up with the Chinese and -- that the United States will assist in the
democratic minority, politically, in Hong Kong?
MR. BOUCHER: I am not familiar with all these statements, so there is really no
way I can comment on them. As far as what the Secretary is going to raise in
China, I'll leave that for him and the party.
Q There is another Asian leader, minority leader, Mr. Sen Wen (sp) of Burma, he
is leader of a coalition government in exile, he is the cousin of Ong San Suu
Gee (ph) and he is in town today and he is also asking for United States help in
getting help for the democratic forces in Burma against the miltary government
there. Have you any comment on this or any --
MR. BOUCHER: Again, I didn't know that this gentleman was visiting, I'll try to
check and see if we have any meetings scheduled with him.
Q Two other tidbits, Richard. First of all, do you by any chance have the name
of this alleged US POW who exists in the Soviet Union? Is that published or
does the US government have it from talking with the Soviets?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know if that was published or not, Ralph, I'll see if we
have the full article that we can make available to you.
Q And the second thing is, I am not sure if you already answered this -- sorry?
Q (Inaudible) -- in English please.
Q I am not sure if you answered this question earlier or not, does the US --
among the nations the US is consulting with on sharing information on the Pan
Am 103 indictment, is Libya among them? Is the United States going to in some
way interlocute with Libya to either share the information or conduct some
discussion about its terrorist role?
MR. BOUCHER: Ralph, I think I told John a little while ago we have not
communicated with the Libyan government. I don't think there is any point in
our telling them what they did, they know what they did.
Q (Off mike) -- as a matter of course, wouldn't you simply through some third
party ask the Libyans --
MR. BOUCHER: Again, what we may do in terms of next steps, directly or with
other governments, I am not going to try to explore with you at this point. At
this point we have not communicated with the Libyan government.
Q (Off mike) -- communicate with Libya through a third party?
MR. BOUCHER: We have Belgium as our protecting power there.
Q But the US has not filed a protest through the Belgians with the Libyans or
anything like that?
MR. BOUCHER: We have not communicated with the Libyan government.
Q Thank you.
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The Associated Press
The materials in the AP file were compiled by The Associated Press. These
materials may not be republished without the express written consent of The
Associated Press.
November 14, 1991, Thursday, PM cycle
SECTION: Washington Dateline
LENGTH: 1273 words
HEADLINE: Two Libyans Indicted in Airliner Bombing
BYLINE: By JAMES ROWLEY, Associated Press Writer
DATELINE: WASHINGTON
KEYWORD: Pan Am 103
BODY:
Two Libyan intelligence officials have been indicted in connection with the
1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, which killed 270
people, U.S. and Scottish officials announced today.
The White House raised the possibility of retaliatory action against Libya.
Spokesman Marlin Fitzwater said it was clear that "higher ups" in Libyan leader
Moammar Gadhafi's government provided support for the bombing.
Scottish officials said the two suspects had been charged with murder and
conspiracy. Similar but separate charges were filed in the United States.
Scotland's Lord Advocate, Lord Fraser of Carmyllie, said the two are presumed
to be in Libya and are unlikely to be "arrested in the normal way." But he said
Libyan authorities would be pressed to turn them over for trial.
Acting Attorney General William Barr alleged in Washington that the two
"planted and detonated the bomb," acting in concert with other unnamed
co-conspirators.
The two suspects were identified as Abdel Basset Ali Al-Megrahi and Lamen
Khalifa Fhimah. Barr described them as "fugitives from justice."
The first criminal charges in the case were filed nearly three years after
the act of international terrorism horrified the world. The bomb killed all 259
people aboard the Boeing 747 jetliner and 11 on the ground. Pan Am 103
originated in Frankfurt, Germany. The victims, were from 21 countries, and
included eight families of four and 16 infants sitting on the laps of their
parents. There were 188 Americans.
President Bush praised the "very good work" that went into obtaining the U.S.
indictments. He said the charges weren't "some quick hit, quick fix on trying
to find the answer."
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Asked about the possibility of military action against Libya, Fitzwater said
Libya's "consistent pattern or terrorism" under Gadhafi cannot be ignored. "We
are considering action and I'll leave it at that," he said. "We don't rule out
any option."
He said the White House will consult with British Prime Minister John Major
and other world leaders "to fashion together the cooperative international
response to this latest terrorist atrocity by Gadhafi's government," he said.
Saeeb Mujbar, Libya's ambassador to France, called reports of Libyan
involvement "a very serious lie."
"But there is no proof of it whatsover," he said in a BBC radio interview
shortly before the announcement. "We are victims of terrorism and not
perpetrators of it."
There was no immediate comment from the Libyan Foreign Ministry in Tripoli.
Relatives of those killed by the bomb blast called the indictment a good
first step but criticized the Bush administration's continued dealings with
Syria, which many survivors believe masterminded the plot.
"It's great that they've got the gun and the gunman, now who bought the
bullets and who masterminded it?" said Kathleen Flynn of McLean, Va., whose son
John Patrick, a Colgate University junior, was killed in the blast.
Fitzwater said there was no evidence linking Syria or Iran to the bombing and
State Department deputy spokesman Richard Boucher stressed: "This was a Libyan
government operation from start to finish."
Boucher denied suggestions by family members of some victims that the United
States decided to exonerate Syria of culpability because of the administration's
interest in improved U.S.-Syrian relations. "There was no political influence
over this indictment, = he said.
Barr described how the bomb was allegedly placed aboard the plane inside a
radio, which itself was inside a suitcase shipped as unaccompanied luggage.
He described an extraordinary international criminal investigation of
"incredible complexity" including analysis of a fragment of plastic explosive
"smaller than a fingernail."
The announcement of indictments was made with fanfare in Washington, where
Barr, FBI Director William Sessions and several of his lieutenants hailed the
cooperative investigation with Scottish officials.
Barr said he had spoken by telephone with some of the relatives.
"The international community must protect itself from this uncivilized
terrorism," he added.
Authorities in both countries said the investigation was continuing. Barr
said it would "be pursued unrelentingly We have the resolve and we have the
ability to track down ... those responsible for terrorist acts against
Americans."
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The Associated Press, November 14, 1991
In London, British Foreign Secretary Douglas Hurd told the House of Commons,
"We expect Libya to respond fully to our demand ... The interests of justice
require no less. This was a fiendish act of wickedness."
"It is alleged that Megrahi is the senior officer of the Libyan intelligence
services, holding positions with Libyan Arab Airlines and was director of the
Center for Strategic Studies in Tripoli at the time of these offenses," said
Scotland's Fraser.
"It is alleged that Fhimah was also an officer of the Libyan intelligence
services, holding a position as station officer with Libyan Arab Airlines in
Malta," he said.
The New York-bound luggage, including the suitcase with the bomb, was
transferred to another plane at London's Heathrow Airport before the flight left
for the United States.
U.S. officials believe the two Libyans' positions with the Libyan airliner
enabled them to smuggle the bomb aboard the plane. The airliner has long been
known to counter-terrorism officials as a support tool of Libyan terrorist
operations.
Another relative, Victoria Cummock of Coral Gables, Fla., who lost her
husband, John, a marketing executive, said she was uncertain as to whether those
indicted could be brought to trial. But if there were a trial, "I don't care
where it would be held, I would be there."
She was critical of the government for not moving faster. "I think it's
amazing that we can sit down at a Mideast peace conference and the murder of 270
people, most of them Americans, is not even on the agenda," she said.
In Britain, the leader of a group of relatives of British victims welcomed
reports of pending charges but said that "a couple of Libyans are only likely to
be small minnows in a very large pond."
"What we want to know is why they did it and who put them up to it," said Jim
Swire, whose 24-year-old daughter died in the bombing.
The worldwide investigation originally focused on the Syria-linked Popular
Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, led by Ahmed Jibril. The
CIA concluded that Jibril conspired with Iran to attack a U.S. airliner in
revenge for the accidental 1988 downing of an Iranian jetliner by the USS
Vincennes in the Persian Gulf.
The plot was thwarted when Jibril's group in Germany was penetrated by
informants and arrested by German authorities in October 1988, said the CIA's
former counter-terrorism director Vincent Cannistraro. Jibril appears to have
passed on the project to the Libyans in return for a renewal of the subsidy he
was getting from them, Cannistraro said.
U.S.-Libyan relations had been further eroded by the 1986 U.S. bombing on
Tripoli carried out previous acts attributed to Libya.
Evidence found in the wreckage led investigators to conclude that the bombing
was the work of Libyan agents.
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The Associated Press, November 14, 1991
Clothing from the suitcase that contained the bomb was traced to a clothing
store on Malta.
A fragment of a circuit board found in the bomb wreckage was traced to timing
devices that were made for the Libyan intelligence service by a Swissd company
in 1985. The fragment was similar to electronic timing devices seized in
February 1988 from Libyan agents traveling in Senegal, officials said. Senegal
released the Libyan agents in June 1988 without ever formally charging them.
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1ST STORY of Level 1 printed in FULL format.
Copyright (c) 1991 Federal Information Systems Corporation;
Federal News Service
NOVEMBER 15, 1991, FRIDAY
SECTION: SPECIAL TRANSCRIPT
LENGTH: 5399 words
HEADLINE: THE MCLAUGHLIN GROUP"
WITH HOST JOHN MCLAUGHLIN
JOINED BY ELEANOR CLIFT, MONA CHARIN,
MORTON KONDRACKE AND FRED BARNES FOR BROADCAST: WEEKEND OF NOVEMBER 16-17, 1991
KEYWORD:
MCLAUGHLIN GROUP-11/15/91
BODY:
ANNOUNCER: From the nation's capital, the McLaughlin Group, an unrehearsed
program presenting inside opinions and forecasts on major issues of the day.
Sponsored by GE. GE, from satellites to medical systems, at GE we bring good
things to life.
Here is the moderator, John McLaughlin.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Issue one, the Libya connection.
Libyan terrorists planted the bomb onboard Pan Am Flight 103 that exploded
over Lockerbie, Scotland, three years ago, killing 270 persons including 188
Americans, so says Scottish police and the US Justice Department this week,
both of whom issued warrants for the arrest of two Libyan intelligence agents
who are accused of having acted with the full knowledge and the full consent of
Libyan leader Mu'ammar Qadhafi, thus making this heinous act a terrosim -- state
sponsored act.
(Begin videotaped segement)
STATE DEPT. SPOKESMAN RICHARD BOUCHER: A Libyan government operation from start
to finish.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Libya denies the charge and says it will not hand over the
suspects.
LIBYAN AMBASSADOR TO FRANCE: Nobody surrenders his own nationals and this way,
surrenders his sovereignty.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: In Washington the White House is working to forge an
international response and did not rule out military retaliation. Some of the
victims families are also demanding military action, especially as a last
resort.
BURT AMMERMAN: There is an agreement amongst ourselves that military action is a
viable option that must be used, especially if all other options fail.
WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN MARLIN FITZWATER: We don't rule out any options. We are
considering any number of international responses.
(End videotaped segment)
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Assuming extradition efforts fail and Qadhafi continues to
refuse to cough up the terrorists, what action should the United States take? 1
ask you, Mona Charin, and by the way welcome to the program, Mona. That chair
has launched a presidential campaign. It will undoubtedly --- (laughter) -- do
wonders for you.
MS. CHARIN: Maybe it'll launch me into your chair, John. (Laughter)
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Another plan of a palace coup. (Laughter)
MS. CHARIN: There are two problems with this episode. The first is that
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foreign policy is not police work. The second is that the Bush administration
has been incoherent in its anti-terrorism policy. On the one hand they have
been making kissy-face with the chief terrorist in the world, Hafiz Assad, and
at the same time they have the Justice Department indicting the convenient
Libyan terrorists. It won't work.
The United States should have a policy like Israel has, which is whenever an
American is hurt by terrorists, we retaliate instantaneously. There should ---
you know, three years later to issue an indictment will scare no one.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Hafiz Assad, by the way, is the leader of Syria, and George Bush
has said that Syria had taken a bum rap by having been charged with this
terrorist act involving Pan Am 103. Interesting, wouldn't you say?
MR. BARNES: Well, that is interesting. Bush is trying to get something out of
Syria in the Middle East peace talks, doesn't seem to be getting it, but he
still has tried to WOO Assad much more than he should be.
I agree with Mona that we need to have a firm terrorist policy that we deal with
it swiftly and surely and militarily if necessary. There are other avenues that
you can try this time. Now there is a country that used to be the patron and is
still very close to Libya and they are supposed to be our buddies now.
You know Mikhail Gorbachev, the guy whose altar you worship so frequently, John?
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
MR. BARNES: Why not Bush is still propping this guy up, why doesn't he see if
he can't get Mikhail Gorbachev to lean on Colonel Qadhafi and get these guys
extradited?
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah. I notice you're a little haughty here today, Fred.
MR. BARNES: Thanks a lot, John.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You are not intimidated by this Thelma and Louise on my left,
are you? I am, Eleanor.
MS. CLIFT: Right, yeah, it's hard to be the first anything these days, anymore,
but I am pleased to be part of this historic occasion. I had never thought of
you as a gender setter but here we are.
MR. BARNES: It can't last.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Who knows?
MS. CLIFT: Who knows.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: We may have a vacancy for a period, right?
MS. CLIFT: Okay, but I do disagree with Mona, well, she might be Pat Buchanan in
drag and I am Jack Germond in drag, it's a lot of work, but our views are
different, clearly.
It seems to me this notion of swift, sure, retaliation is really just very
simplistic. I mean you don't know who to respond against. What you do is just
set off an endless, perpetual chain. It seems to me it's really foolhearty.
I think it is too politically convenient for the Bush administration suddenly to
decide that the Syrians are innocent and they are going to get a couple of
Libyan hitmen. And to announce the extraditions and then say, "Oh, by the way,
we are also thinking about bombing," that's not justice, that is political
desperation and this is George Bush trying to prop up an enemy in case he needs
him next year.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you think Eleanor, it might take about 11 months to show that
extradition is impossible, and then come October it might be necessary to take
military action?
MS. CLIFT: That's quite possible that we could have the makings of another
October Surprise scare.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Morton?
MR. KONDRACKE: No, what a cynic.
I agree with you partly. Who are you going to bomb? If you bomb Syria when you
think it's Syria and it turns out to be Libya, then you bomb the wrong person
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and then you only encourage another attack. I think this is done correctly.
Forensic evidence, you get the people who did it, you indict them in a system of
laws and you ask for extradition. You try to get your allies together to impose
economic sanctions, which is what the administration is going to do, and then
it's going try to isolate Libya, and they are going to try to get all terrorist
groups removed. They are going to put the same kind of heat on Libya that has
been put on Iraq after the war, and as a last resort, if nothing happens, they
will try some kind of military action.
MR. BARNES: Mort -- let me say something to Mort and Eleanor. Sometimes you do
know who to bomb. Now you don't --
(Cross talk)
MS. CLIFT: Name one, Fred.
MR. BARNES: In this case you do.
MS. CLIFT: No.
(Cross talk)
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor, Eleanor.
MS. CLIFT: What would be --
MR. BARNES: -- intervene militarily -- let me finish -- intervene militarily --
MS. CLIFT: He's pointing to me.
MR. BARNES: He's always pointing to somebody -- (laughter) - intervene
militarily if we need to because we know who the perpetrator is. We don't know
in other cases.
(Cross talk)
MS. CHARIN: If you supply a standard -
MS. CLIFT: (Inaudible).
MS. CHARIN: Eleanor, Eleanor, if you apply a standard of legality toward
international affairs, then you are going to have the exact same crime control
on an international level that we have domestically --
MR. KONDRACKE: Are you saying --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Wait a minute, wait a minute, let her finish.
MS. CHARIN: -- and look how successful we are being against crime here.
MR. KONDRACKE: Are you saying that we are supposed to go shooting people in the
streets of Washington, DC because we should apply the same standard to our
domestic affairs as we do to international affairs --
(Cross talk)
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor.
MS. CLIFT: If the bombing of Pan Am 103 was in response to the bombing of
Tripoli and we have had relative calm since this period, what would be the point
of going in and leveling the airport in Tripoli and inviting further terrorist
attacks?:
MR. BARNES: I'll explain it to you. It is very --
MS. CLIFT: It is totally pointless.
MR. BARNES: It is very simple. The Libyans are guilty of mass murder, 270
people, premeditated mass murder.
MS. CLIFT: You want to invite them --
MR. BARNES: They need to be punished for that, it's as simple as that.
MS. CLIFT: --- to mass murder more people?
(Cross talk)
MR. BARNES: Just to be clear, just to be clear --
MS. CLIFT: Let's let justice work through the courts.
MR. KONDRACKE: Hey Eleanor ---
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: We've got to get out.
MR. KONDRACKE: - if it doesn't work through the courts then you do need to use
military force. You should do it the legal way first, but if that doesn't work
you have got to use the guns.
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MS. CLIFT: And what would your time limit be?
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I want to make couple of small points.
MS. CLIFT: Eleven months.
MR. KONDRACKE: Jump in any time, John.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Number one, the intelligence reports showing that indeed Syria
and Iran played a role in Pan Am 103 and that will shortly be revealed --
MR. KONDRACKE: Inside joke, right John?
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: -- okay, you've got a scoop here. Secondly, the majority of the
families of the victims want an economic stranglehold but not military force
applied in this instance, namely to cut out any landings -- airplane landings in
Libya and to prevent Libyan aircraft from landing on any foreign soil.
Exit question: on a probability scale of zero to 10, zero meaning zero
probability, 10 meaning metaphysical certitude, what is the probability of these
two accused Libyans being tried? Mona?
MS. CHARIN: Two.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Freddie?
MR. BARNES: It's about right, about a two.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor?
MS. CLIFT: Three.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Mort?
MR. KONDRACKE: One.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: The answer is one. We'll be right back with the Buchanan
bombshell.
(Commercial break)
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Issue two: Beating the Bush. Is George Bush beatable,
realistically beatable? Apparently Patrick J. Buchanan thinks he is.
Pat will announce within three weeks that he is taking on George Bush for the
1992 Republican presidential nomination -- so says Pat's sister and close
political confidant Angela Buchanan. Then, within three months, February the
18th, Mr. Buchanan will enter the New Hampshire primary. Buchanan's platform is
likely to parallel that of David Duke, but without the fascist and excess
baggage.
PAT BUCHANAN: (From videotape) Bush -- (inaudible) -- he has walked away from
all this valid conservative terrain. And David Duke's issues -- I saw him for
one hour on (your/this?) show. There's not a thing he said a conservative could
disagree with.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: This is the conservative terrain that Buchanan is talking about:
One, opposition to new taxes; two, getting the able-bodied off the welfare
rolls; three, ending reverse discrimination, whether through quotas or
setasides; four, curtailing gun control; five, halting illegal immigration; six,
cutting foreign aid; seven, getting tough on crime.
In other words, Buchanan will be an outsider carrying the flag of "America
first" -- an economic nationalist filling the vacuum created by the two major
parties which have both dismissed the white backlash as a fluke.
Pat Buchanan: editorial writer, columnist, author of three books; councilor to
three presidents; and television personality, where on the McLaughlin Group he
climbed to the all-time acme of his career -- (laughter) --- readying himself in
this gladiator's boot camp for any destiny, any calling, howsoever heroic.
Kindly assess Pat Buchanan as a candidate for president of the United States. I
ask you, Fred.
MR. BARNES: We should have known when Pat got rid of that mortician's blue suit
that something was up -- (laughter) -- when he got that bright orange thing that
he had on last week whatever you want to call it!
MR. KONDRACKE: It was a rug! (Laughter.)
MR. BARNES: Pat right now is a one-state candidate. It's all geared around
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New Hampshire, an anti-tax state, a state that's --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: A pro-life state.
MR. BARNES: A pro-life state. A state with a tradition and a zest for messing
with incumbent presidents running for reelection. It happened to Lyndon Johnson
and others.
But you have to remember one thing about Pat, he is not representative of
American conservatives. He's an isolationist, he's a nativist, he's a
protectionist; most conservatives aren't. But Pat will have in New Hampshire,
and if gets beyond that, elsewhere, a better primary voter message than George
Bush will, and it's the number one issue you have -- taxes. That's a great
issue.
MS. CLIFT: The job openings he's created on television alone may help turn
around the economy! (Laughter.)
He is David Duke with a word processor and without the sheet, although sometimes
he comes close to putting on the sheet. His views on immigration - he talks
about it as suicide of a nation -- where he talks about the hoards of immigrants
coming to dilute our Western civilization, to me, is thinly veiled racism.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Mona, are you going to sit there quietly and endure this?
MS. CHARIN: (Laughs) No, there needs to be a right-wing challenge to George Bush
because George Bush is making the Republican party incoherent. George Bush has
abandoned all of the conservative principles on which he was elected in 1988.
That Pat doesn't fully represent the right wing is the problem. He has become,
in the last couple of years, a little idiosyncratic on some of these issues.
MR. KONDRACKE (?): A little? (Laughter.)
MS. CHARIN: And people on the Hill are concerned that he won't run a pro-growth
campaign against Bush, the kind that, say, a Kemp would run.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Have you heard that the White House is urging Patrick to back
off --
MR. KONDRACKE: Actually, I haven't --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: - and may be cutting a deal with Patrick?
MR. KONDRACKE: Oh, really?! (Laughter.)
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Yeeess!
MR. BARNES: Oh, John! The inside (jump?) ---
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: There may be a little modification of George's agenda.
MR. KONDRACKE: What, he's going to dump Quayle?
MR. BARNES: And what would they -- what would they buy him off with?
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I don't know. Maybe it's gun control, who knows?
MS. CLIFT: No. Pat would do the voice-over for the Bush campaign commercials.
MR. KONDRACKE: Patrick profoundly believes that people in this country want to
close down all the bridges to the rest of the world and hide under a rock, that
we've stopped wanting to be international leaders -- the first nation among all
nations -- and just forget about the world. He's wrong, and he ought to have a
chance to test this message of his against the rest of the ---
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Don't you think that Pat is doing what Reagan did in '76? He's
laying the groundwork for '96. Don't you think so?
MS. CHARIN: Yes, yes. That is absolutely right. Pat Buchanan is not doing this
to move George Bush to the right. He really wants to be president some day, and
he's doing this now in preparation for 1996.
MR. BARNES: That's true. But wait a minute, comparing Pat Buchanan, who is a
great television commentator and a good columnist and a friend of mine, with
Ronald Reagan, who was larger than life and one of the greatest political
candidates ever, is ridiculous.
MS. CHARIN: Somebody once said the presidency is not an entry-level position.
MS. CLIFT: The nicest thing I can say about Pat Buchanan is that he's not doing
this to boost his lecture fees, he really believe this stuff! (Laughter,
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cross talk.)
MR. KONDRACKE: Pat has zero political experience. He has never run anything
except his own computer, you know.
MS. CLIFT: Yeah. If he's going to embarrass George Bush in New Hampshire and
then he's going to play tag-team with David Duke, who takes over the South, and
if Duke runs third party, he can do for the Democrats what George Wallace did
for the Republicans, and that is make it possible to win in the South.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What do you think Pat will do in New Hampshire voter-wise? Do
you want to give me a percentage?
MR. BARNES: I'd say - look, to make a dent you need to get just 20,000 votes.
It's a 100,000-vote field. I'd say he'll get about 20 percent.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Twenty percent? Is that all?
What do you think he'll get?
MS. CLIFT: I'll give him 30.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What do you think?
MR. KONDRACKE: I'd give him 30, too.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What do you think?
MS. CHARIN: Twenty-five.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I'd give him 30 percent.
Did you hear that the Democrats are pouring into Buchanan coffers checks from
all over the country? (Laughter.)
MR. KONDRACKE: No, John, I haven't heard that.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Especially the liberal Democrats. They think this is great!
MR. KONDRACKE(?): (They're all ?) supporting David Duke, too.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: No, they're supporting -- they're anxious to see the impact on
George Bush.
MR. KONDRACKE: Yeah, Republicans --
MS. CLIFT: Given the choice between Pat Buchanan and Ralph Nader on a write-in,
I think liberal Democrats will go with Nader. (Laughs.)
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Has anyone explored whether or not Gordon Humphrey is actually
going to be the general campaign manager?
MR. BARNES: I think not.
But Republicans are putting all their money in Jerry Brown's campaign.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: He reported to my staff that he is not backing Pat Buchanan.
Can you speak to this, the former Senator from New Hampshire?
MS. CHARIN: The rumor was that Humphrey's hostility to John Sununu was so great
that he would support Pat Buchanan. But he has -- as you say, he's been a
little bit
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Whose Pat's running mate going to be? (Laughter.)
MR. BARNES: Pat's not going to get nominated!
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Are you going to join his Cabinet?
MR. BARNES: He's not going to get nominated!
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What do you want to be, Secretary of State?
MR. KONDRACKE: I want to be -- I'm going to be --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you want to head the Buchanan Environmental Protection
Agency?
MR. KONDRACKE: I'm going to be in the "amen corner." (Laughter.)
MS. CLIFT: I have a nomination. Jane Fonda. And they can do the -- (inaudible)
--- together!
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Pat Buchanan may have an Achilles heel, namely the Persian Gulf
War, which he opposed. In fact, the Group here ragged Pat about the
Buchanan-McGovern-Fondal axis during that war.
Come November '92, George Bush and Republicans may try to portray Democrats and,
conceivably, Pat Buchanan, if he's still around, as soft on Iraq and soft on
Saddam Hussein.
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Pat should know this. In his home state of Virginia just one week ago, on
November the 5th, voters got a taste of that strategy. In the contest for
Virginia's 7th District congressional seat, GOP candidate George Allen defeated
Democrat Kay Slaughter by a whopping 62 to 35 percent with the help of this
Persian Gulf War commercial, which commercial did a lot to pull Allen out of a
dead heat with his opponent.
(Begin videotape)
NARRATOR: For Congress it's a question of judgment and leadership.
Kay Slaughter, and the liberals in Congress, opposed fighting Saddam Hussein.
Kay Slaughter opposed President Bush and joined anti-war protestors while our
troops were at risk in the Persian Gulf.
George Allen supported the decision to fight Saddam Hussein and strongly
endorsed Virginia's resolution to back the President and our troops. George
Allen and George Bush -- judgment and leadership we can trust.
George Allen -- experienced conservative Republican.
(End of videotape.)
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Let's exit on this. Do you think that the Persian Gulf War will
have enough political life in it so that it cna be said that it will have a
cutting issue value in the presidential elections in 1992? Mona Charin?
MS. CHARIN: Yes. But only because it gives George Bush the aura of leadership.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What do you think?
MR. BARNES: No, no. It does that, but it also allows --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: This is a national cutting edge issue.
MR. BARNES: Yeah, I gotcha.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: All over the country, not just conservative districts.
MR. BARNES: Is there an echo in here? (Laughter.)
The fact is it will be, because it lets Bush tag his opponents as liberals, and
a liberal can't win.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What do you think?
MS. CLIFT: I say no. George Allen is a "war potato" trying to capitalize on
this war sitting on his couch.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Did you see the way he did it?
MS. CLIFT: Oh, you know, that's not going to work a year from now.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You don't think so?
MS. CLIFT: The country is closer to Pat Buchanan's "America first" agenda than
it is --
THE GROUP: Ohhh! (Laughter.)
MS. CLIFT: -- than it is to remembering a war that will be two-years old and
very frayed and tattered.
MS. CHARIN: Eleanor, everyone disagrees with you about the war!
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor, it's so good to (have?) you straightening us out!
(Laughter.)
What do you have to say?
MR. KONDRACKE: I mean, it all depends on who his opponent is. If it's --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: On the one hand, on the other. Give me an answer!
MR. KONDRACKE: If it's Bob Kerrey or Mario Cuomo, of course it's going to be a
major issue. If it's Clinton, it won't.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Answer: Minor value in the presidential elections of 1992.
Issue three: Doonesbury's doomsday. Vice President Dan Quayle was investigated
for cocaine usage when he was a US Senator, and the Drug Enforcement
Administration, the DEA, covered it. So says cartoonist Gary Trudeau in his
Doonesbury comic strip.
The allegations are phony. They were made by a convicted drug dealer who later
recanted saying he made the whole thing up. The DEA and the Department of
Justice both dismissed the charges as totally groundless. Quayle himself
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denounced the allegations calling them, quote/unquote, "outrageous garbage."
Marilyn Quayle described the matter as a media vendetta.
Meanwhile, the comic strip has triggered a storm of critiques. Pat (sic)
Oliphant, columnist for the Boston Globe, calls the behavior of the press in
this instance, quote/unquote, "the great American scandal machine which treats
rumor and fact indiscriminately." Oliphant adds, quote, "It's bad enough that
Quayle has been slandered in a comic strip. What is incomprehensible is that
the press has compounded the slander by treating it as news," unquote, thus
legitimizing Trudeau's bogus account.
A number of newspapers have refused to run the strip, including the Chicago
Tribune, the Atlanta Journal, the San Jose Mercury News, the Orlando Sentinel,
the Providence Journal Bulletin, the Dayton Daily News, and the Stanford
Advocate and the Buffalo News.
Is Oliphant right? Is the media way out of line? And what about Gary Trudeau,
the Doonesbury cartoonist? I ask you, Mona?
MS. CHARIN: Well, now we're participating in this very press behavior that
Oliphant decried.
Look, people can tell the difference between an investigative journalist report
and just hunting for sleaze. We learned that in the Hill/Thomas affair. So
this episode makes Gary Trudeau look like a McCarthyite, and it makes Dan Quayle
look good.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: What do you think, Fred?
MR. BARNES: Well, in fact, that's right. There has been a backlash. Already
Quayle was picking up popularity and respect around the country. For the first
time there was a poll last week that showed that a majority of Americans now, a
narrow majority, think he should be on the ticket. Now that may not sound like
much, but for Quayle it's a big advance.
MS. CLIFT: I'd like to point out it's Tom Oliphant not Pat Oliphant, so we don't
perpetuate another wrongdoing here.
Clearly, Trudeau is dancing on the ethical line here. But it is a comic strip.
It's a satirical comic strip. It's not his best work. He's going to be hurt by
this. I like it better --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Why? Why is he going to be hurt?
MS. CLIFT: Because he's made Quayle into a sympathetic figure. Nobody is going
to vote against Dan Quayle because they think he's a crackhead.
MR. KONDRACKE: Hey, Eleanor!
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You don't think it's a cheap shot?
MS. CLIFT: I think it's not terribly funny.
MR. KONDRACKE: Oh, Eleanor!
MS. CLIFT: The medicine is far worse than the illness. I'm not for censorship
of this kind of --
(Cross talk.)
I like it better when Gary Trudeau goes after George Bush. When he talked about
Bush putting his manhood in a blind trust, that was good satirical humor. This
is not that good.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Eleanor -- gee, I think you're swell, Eleanor. Let me ask you
this follow-up question. What about Tom Oliphant's -- apologies to Tom; calling
him Pat -- what about Tom Oliphant's other point, that the press compounded the
wrongdoing -- we'll call it that for the sake of the conversation -- the
wrongdoing of Trudeau by making it a news item, thus giving it legitimacy?
MS. CLIFT: I disagree with that, because by making it a news item most
journalists condemned it on all the editorial pages --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Trying to straighten out the record.
MS. CLIFT: Yeah. Who wins in this? Dan Quayle is the clear winner.
MR. KONDRACKE: Eleanor, if this were a liberal Democrat who were the target of
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this, by some right-wing cartoonist, you would be outraged -
MS. CLIFT: No, I wouldn't.
MR. KONDRACKE: -- that they were dredging something up, that it was sleazy and
rotten.
MS. CLIFT: I think it was typical right-wing behavior. (Laughs.)
MR. KONDRACKE: It was sleazy and rotten on the part of Gary Trudeau and he ought
to know better. I ask you because I know that you are a sympathizer of Dan
Quayle's, if that's the right word to use in this regard --
MR. BARNES: I think he has got a bad rap.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you think that Quayle -- Quayle really decided to make this
an issue, trade off it, try to build himself by making this all public before
the Doonesbury cartoon appeared?
MR. BARNES: He really hasn't made this a big issue. It has been a big issue on
its own and he hasn't asked newspapers not to run the strip. The problem with
saying it's just a satirical comic strip, Eleanor, is this. The press syndicate
that sends around this column has defended it as serious journalism, breaking a
story that has been covered up in Washington. They can't have it both ways.
MS. CLIFT: But everybody else knows better.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Is it safe to assume that we all feel that Gary Trudeau is
coming out as the big loser in this affair? Is that correct? You all nodding
your heads? Great.
You know, I feel like a chaperone here, girls on one side, boys on the other. A
high school dance.
be right back with predictions.
(Commercial break)
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Predictions, Mona Charin.
MS. CHARIN: The Republicans in the House are going to revolt when RTC
refinancing comes up next week --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Resolution Trust Corporation.
MS. CHARIN: Exactly ----- because they are going to demand a pro-growth package in
exchange for voting for the refinancing of the RTC.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well that's a very exciting prediction. What do you have to
say, Freddie?
MR. BARNES: Maybe they are responding to the courageous advice of Jack Kemp, of
course George Bush isn't.
You are going to see a new revisionism beginning about the Reagan presidency in
which Reagan gets a lot of credit for winning the Cold War, he deserves the
credit. You see some of that revisionism in a new book called "The Turn" by Don
Oberdorf of the Washington Post.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well thanks for sharing that Fred.
MS. CLIFT: Yeah ---
MR. BARNES: I thought you'd like to hear it.
MS. CLIFT: -- I think we have two members of the Kemp for President Committee
here, '92, '96 or 2000.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Yeah?
MS. CLIFT: It's better than even odds that the Iowa State Committee, when it
meets next month, will vote for secret ballots in the Iowa Caucus, thereby
making it more of a contest and undercutting Tom Harkin.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Quickly.
MR. KONDRACKE: Bush will have a growth package and he will announce it in the
State of the Union message in January.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Pat's career as presidential runner will last for
three-and-a-half months. He will pull out after Super Tuesday, which is March
the --
MR. BARNES: Tenth.
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MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Tenth.
Next week, Israel's Yitzhak Shamir tours America, New York, Baltimore, Boston,
Los Angeles and Washington, DC, where he will meet with George Bush.
Bye, bye.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Issue four, condom conundrum.
Should condom ads be televised? Fox TV says yes, making it the first television
network to accept condom ads.
CONDOM COMMERCIAL: I never thought having an intimate relationship would be a
matter of life or death, but because of AIDS I am afraid. AIDS isn't just a gay
disease, it is everybody's disease and everybody who gets it, dies. The Surgeon
General says proper use of condoms can reduce your risk, so you'd be crazy not
to use them. The condoms I buy are called "Lifestyles." I'll do a lot for love
but I am not ready to die for it.
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Currently networks show ads for contraceptive sponges but not
condoms, and they have demonstrated condom use on network shows -- news shows.
But some worry that promoting condoms will encourage promiscuity. Should
networks run the kind of condom ad that we have just seen?
I ask you, Fred. I think you could bring some expertise to this.
MR. BARNES: Expertise? I hope they don't show them on Saturday mornings on the
kids cartoon shows, but --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Did you find that condom ad offensive?
MR. BARNES: I didn't find it offensive, I found it -- an argument that is not
going to be effective. I mean people aren't going to be buying a lot of condoms
for health reasons. That is not why people use them, John, maybe (you'd heard
?).
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Do you think that this kind of advertising legitimizes sex in
some way? I ask you, Eleanor.
MS. CLIFT: No. It doesn't legitimize or encourage. It acknowledges the real
world that is out there, and it seems to me that in an era when having sex can
be a death sentence, that this is an appropriate way to deal with it. The ads
they are going to do are going to be more clinical than the one we just saw, and
the steamy stuff that invites people to have sex goes on in prime time
programming of every other kind.
MS. CHARIN: Well, Eleanor, the clinical stuff is what we need, she is right
about that
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: About what percentage --
MS. CHARIN: But the TV programmers broadcast invitations to sex every night on
prime time television. But the fact is that liberals want to believe that
condoms are the answer to the AIDS crisis and that they can still have the
sexual revolution and the complete libertinism regarding sexual matters if you
just use a condom. It is not that simple. It is not a solution to sexually
transmitted diseases. Nobody even really knows if condoms succeed in reducing
the incidence of AIDS. The only --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: Well, Eleanor wants to see condoms dropped from airplanes, don't
you, Eleanor?
MS. CLIFT: No, I think they should come with the ammenities package in every
high school, why not? We are saying it facetiously but they should --
MR. MCLAUGHLIN: You know that in New York City, 80 percent of the young people
have had sexual intercourse by the age of 19, 80 percent. So does that not
inspire you to think that it's better to distribute the condoms?
MR. KONDRACKE: Look, I think on television, tasteful advertising -- that was
sort of semi-tasteful, I thought, not clinical, not the kind of thing that I am
surprised you actually didn't put on, the demonstration of how you put a condom
on, but in any event, if it's done tastefully it's okay. In school there ought
to be some lessons --
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MR. MCLAUGHLIN: I want to point out that 79 percent of condoms break over a
course of 18 months according to heterosexual couples who have used them. So
contraceptives like condoms are not safe completely by any means.
MR. BARNES: Is that right?
MS. CLIFT: No, but they are better than nothing, and with Magic Johnson, all his
endorsements out there, I think we are going to see Nike and Converse and
everybody else doing public announcements for condoms. That's a good thing.
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Copyright (c) 1991 Newsday, Inc.;
Newsday
November 15, 1991, Friday, ALL EDITIONS
SECTION: NEWS; THE LOCKERBIE INDICTMENTS; Pg. 5
LENGTH: 1397 words
HEADLINE: Blaming Libya;
U.S. considers military response to '88 jet bombing
BYLINE: By Stephanie Saul. WASHINGTON BUREAU. Susan Page, Saul Friedman and
Glenn Kessler contributed to this report.
DATELINE: Washington
KEYWORD: QUOTE; RICHARD BOUCHER; COVER; PAN AM; ACCIDENT; AIRPLANE; SCOTLAND;
PAN AM; LIBYA; MOAMMAR GADHAFI
BODY:
The United States is weighing punitive action - including the option of
military force - against Moammar Gadhafi's Libyan regime in retaliation for the
bombing of Pan Am Flight 103, officials said yesterday.
The threats followed the Justice Department's release yesterday of an
indictment against two Libyan intelligence operatives, accusing them of
planting and detonating the explosive device that resulted in the deaths of 270
people.
A senior White House official said President George Bush is weighing whether
to order military action against Libya, and officials would not rule out an
attempt to kidnap the accused agents. The president is now consulting with
British Prime Minister John Major and other foreign leaders about concerted
international action.
"Obviously, we are talking about the full range of matters that are available
to countries in terms of their authorities - the diplomatic, civilian, military,
across the whole gamut - but we will not discuss any specific options," White
House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater said.
"This was a Libyan government operation from start to finish," State
Department spokesman Richard Boucher said in a statement that had been cleared
with the White House. "We hold the Libyan government responsible for the murder
of 270 people."
Boucher said the United States was "in touch with our friends and allies
regarding steps the international community should take to ensure that action is
taken to punish the government of Libya in a way which will deter others."
The ill-fated flight, bound for New York's Kennedy Airport from London,
exploded 31,000 feet above Lockerbie, Scotland, on Dec. 21, 1988, killing all
259 people on board and 11 on the ground. Of the dead, 189 were Americans, many
of them homeward bound for Christmas holidays.
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The indictment, returned Wednesday and released yesterday, charged Abdel
Basset Ali Al-Megrahi, 39, chief of airline security for the Libyan intelligence
service, and Lamen Khalifa Fhimah, 35, a Libyan intelligence operative who
worked as station manager and representative for Libyan Arab Airlines at Luga
Airport in Malta.
Boucher described Abdel Basset as a well-connected senior Libyan intelligence
official who reported directly to Gadhafi's brother-in-law, Abdullah Sanussi,
the head of Libyan intelligence.
The indicted men are fugitives, the Justice Department said. Because the
United States has no diplomatic relations or extradition arrangements with
Libya, they cannot be apprehended through normal channels. And in an interview
yesterday with the BBC in London, Saeeb Mujber, Libyan ambassador to France,
ruled out the surrender of the two agents to the United States or Great Britain.
The indictment alleged that the two, conspiring with others, worked to
develop plastic explosive devices for use in international terrorism and
specifically planned to bomb a U.S. airliner.
U.S. officials would not speculate about their motivation, but in the past,
officials have said it was retaliation for the 1986 bombing of Tripoli by U.S
forces. Gadhafi's adopted daughter was among about 40 people killed in that
raid.
In the summer of 1988, Fhimah stored plastic explosives in his office in
Malta, the indictment said. With codefendant Abdel Basset and others, he
constructed a bomb using the explosives and a Swiss-made digital timer. The bomb
was concealed in a Toshiba radio-cassette player.
The two defendants, and other conspirators who weren't named in the
indictment, placed the radio-cassette player in a hard-sided Samsonite
suitcase, the indictment charges.
Using stolen Air Malta baggage tags, they checked the bomb-rigged suitcase on
Dec. 21, 1988, on Air Malta Flight KM-180 in Malta. The plane flew to Frankfurt
Airport. There, the suitcase was transferred to Pan Am 103A, bound for London.
The case was transferred through normal airline baggage handling to the doomed
Pan Am Flight 103. At about 7:03 p.m. Greenwich Mean Time, the plane broke
apart.
The indictment charged the men with 193 counts, including one count of
killing a U.S. national for each of the 189 Americans killed on board the
flight. The indictment charged that the men "utilized the resources and
facilities of the nation of Libya
to carry out their scheme
"
A similar indictment was released yesterday in Scotland. U.S. officials
credited Scottish authorities with developing much of the case and said the
investigation involved unprecedented international cooperation.
"Pieces of the jetliner were scattered over an area of 845 square miles,"
Acting Attorney General William P. Barr said. "Scottish authorities immediately
started conducting the most extensive crime scene investigation ever carried
out. They searched the entire 845-square-mile area inch by inch, month by month,
fields, forests, lakes and towns."
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The search led to the discovery of evidence that forensic experts were able
to use in piecing together the crime - including a minute part of the timing
device used in the bomb, which was traced to a shipment of 20 such devices
manufactured by a Swiss company for the Libyans. Investigators also traced
clothing in the suitcase carrying the bomb to a retail store in Malta located
300 yards from a hotel where Abdel Basset had stayed and learned that Fhimah
made entries in his diary describing aspects of the operation.
Yesterday's U.S. indictment, returned by a grand jury here, was not as
broad as charges brought by French authorities last month against Libyan
terrorists in connection with the bombing of a French airliner.
On Oct. 30, a French magistrate filed arrest warrants naming intelligence
chief Sanussi in that case. Three other men, including Ibrahim Naeli, a Libyan
intelligence officer, are being sought in that case. The Union de Transports
Aeriens (UTA) flight exploded over the Sahara on Sept. 19, 1989.
Forensic evidence in the two bombings is similar, and higher officials in the
Libyan government also are believed to have been involved in the Pan Am Flight
103 case. Justice Department officials said their own investigation is
continuing. "We will not rest until all those responsible are brought to
justice, and we have no higher priority," Barr said.
The disaster was originally thought to be the work of the Popular Front for
the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, a terrorist group with close ties
to the Syrian government.
Yesterday, U.S. officials said there was no evidence linking that group to
the bombing and also discounted any involvement by Syria or Iran.
In a brief mention of the bombing yesterday during a visit by Hispanic
educators, Bush said, "A lot of people thought it was Syrians. The Syrians took
a bum rap on this."
Syria, which cooperated with the United States in the Persian Gulf war, has
denied involvement in the Pan Am 103 bombing and has sought to be removed from
the list of states that the United States says has sponsored terrorism.
Officials also discounted early speculation that there was complicity by
baggage handlers in Frankfurt or that a passenger aboard the plane had been
involved in the bombing. The Flight 103 disaster prompted calls for improved
airport security and also led to the dramatic shrinking of the country's
unofficial flagship airline, Pan American. Suffering from years of losses, the
airline was widely regarded to be on the road to recovery when the terrorist
bomb blew up the 747 jet.
Pan Am officials said that the resulting publicity - and a growing reluctance
by American citizens to fly U.S. airliners - led to a $ 260-million decline in
revenues for the airline's Atlantic business in the year after the incident.
Pan Am ultimately was forced to file for bankruptcy this year.
The Federal Aviation Administration in 1989 fined Pan Am $ 630,000 for
security violations uncovered after the bombing, including a failure to fully
screen passengers on the ill-fated flight.
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The Alleged
Bombers
Abdel Basset Ali Al-Megrahi
Aliases: Abd A1 Basset Al Megrahi, Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi, Abdelbaset
Ali Mohmed, Mr. Baset, Ahmed Khalifa Abdusamad
Born: April 1, 1952, in Tripoli, Libya
Occupation: Former chief of airline security section
Lamen Khalifa Fhimah
Aliases: Al Amin Khalifa Fhimah, Mr. Lamin
Born: 1956 in Suk Giuma, Libya
Occupation: Station manager, Libyan Arab Airlines
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33
1ST STORY of Level 1 printed in FULL format.
Copyright (c) 1991 The Christian Science Publishing Society;
The Christian Science Monitor
November 18, 1991, Monday
SECTION: THE U.S.; Pg. 4
LENGTH: 954 words
HEADLINE: US Seeks Means to Justice In Bombing of Flight 103
BYLINE: George D. Moffett III, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
DATELINE: WASHINGTON
KEYWORD: Stats
HIGHLIGHT:
Indictments charge two Libyan intelligence agents with crime
BODY:
THE United States is discovering again that, when it comes to dealing with
terrorists, there are no easy answers. On Friday, the Bush administration
demanded that two Libyans indicted last week for the 1988 bombing of Pan
American Flight 103 be brought to the US for trial. But the means available to
get them here are fraught with diplomatic complications:
Military force. The US retaliated with air strikes in 1986 when Libyan
terrorists bombed a Berlin cafe, leaving three Americans dead. But the use of
force against an Arab state could have an adverse effect on the Middle East
peace process, which is now at a delicate stage.
Kidnapping. US law permits kidnapping to bring accused terrorists to trial.
But with Libyan security on alert and the suspects in hiding, covert operations
would be difficult.
Economic sanctions. Libyan oil is highly vulnerable to an embargo. But with
little or no excess capacity in the world market, keeping Libya's 1.4 million
barrels-per-day exports bottled up could drive world oil prices up, at least for
the short term, and could further slow recovery from recession at home.
A final option, doing nothing, would almost certainly be unacceptable to a
large segment of the American public, especially in the aftermath of President
Bush's decisive response to Iraqi aggression in Kuwait which cost no American
lives.
"There is no good way to respond to terrorism, because all of the options
have an unattractive side," concludes Henry Schuler, an energy and Middle East
specialist at the Center for Strategic and International Affairs. To be
effective, economic sanctions would have to be backed by Libya's main European
trading partners, including Italy and France. The US and Britain already boycott
Libyan products.
A call for broader sanctions, such as closing down Libyan embassies around
the world, could gain the critical support of France, which has also been a
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victim of Libyan terrorism. Angered at Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi's open
support for last August's coup attempt, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev could
also be a willing partner.
The end of the cold war could also facilitate another US response: a
unilateral naval blockade of Libya's oil terminals. The idea was considered
during the Reagan administration but rejected because of the risk of a
superpower confrontation. With the Soviets out of the picture, a blockade could
be attempted with impugnity, diplomatic analysts suggest.
Indictments issued
The US handed down indictments Thursday against two Libyan intelligence
agents, Abdel Basset Ali Al-Megrahi and Lamen Khalifa Fhimah.
Investigators say the two placed a plastic bomb contained in a portable radio
into a suitcase. The bomb was connected to a tiny Swiss-made detonating device
that may have been one of 20 purchased by Libya in 1985. Using a stolen luggage
tag, the bag was placed on a flight from Malta to Frankfurt, then routed aboard
a Pan Am flight bound for London where it was transferred to Pan Am 103. On
Dec. 21 the bomb exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland.
The Pan Am jumbo jet was carrying 259 passengers, including 188 Americans.
All were killed, as were 11 residents of Lockerbie. The indictments culminate
a three-year, $30 million probe in which investigators searched for fragments
from the crash and interviewed 14,000 people in 40 countries, including
witnesses, suspects, and relatives of the victims.
The indictments come just two weeks after French authorities announced
criminal charges against four other Libyans, including the brother-in-law of
Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi, in connection with the 1989 bombing of a French
airliner. The UTA flight, carrying 171 passengers, was en route from
Brazzaville, in the Congo, to Paris and exploded over the Sahara desert.
French authorities say they have evidence that the Pan Am and UTA bombings
were both discussed at a September 1988 meeting in Tripoli that was attended by
Libyan intelligence agents. Investigators are now convinced that the attack was
perpetrated by Libya in retaliation for the 1986 US air attack and that the
intelligence officers indicted were operating under direct authorization from
Qaddafi.
"This was a Libyan government operation from start to finish," State
Department spokesman Richard Boucher said last week. "An operation of this
magnitude could only have been undertaken with the approval of senior Libyan
officials." One theory that was abandoned by the investigators but is still
pressed by some terrorism experts is that the Pan Am bombing was the work of a
Syrian-based terrorist group acting to avenge the accidental shooting down of an
Iranian airliner by the US over the Gulf in 1988
The indictments will be transmitted to Libya within a few days, Mr. Boucher
said Friday. Libya denies that its agents were involved in the Pan Am incident
and said it was prepared to defend itself against the charges in an
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international tribunal.
Relations marred
The bombing of Flight 103 was one of several exchanges that have marred
relations between the US and Libya since the early 1970s. Relations first turned
sour after a Watergate-besieged President Nixon, eager not to jeopardize ongoing
Middle East peace negotiations, refused to condemn Israel for shooting down a
Libyan passenger plane over the Sinai Peninsula in 1973.
"The incident convinced Qaddafi that there could never be acceptable
relations with the US because US policy was 50 one-sided," says Schuler, author
of a forthcoming book on Libya.
Subsequent acts of Libyan terrorism eventually led to US economic sanctions
on Libya and, in 1986, the air attack that killed dozens in Benghazi and
Tripoli, including Qaddafi's adopted daughter.
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