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415892347
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[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
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415892347
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document
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[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
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26860-010
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White House Office of Appointments and Scheduling Files
Presidential Daily Diary and Presidential Daily Backup Materials
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Originally Processed With FOIA(s): S
FOIA Number:
S
2002-1005-S
CASE
MARKER
This is not a textual record. This is used as an
administrative marker by the George Bush Presidential
Library Staff.
Record Group/Collection:
George H.W. Bush Presidential Records
Collection/Office of Origin:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary/Backup
Subseries:
OA/ID Number:
26860
Folder ID Number:
26860-010
Folder Title:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Stack:
Row:
Section:
Shelf:
Position:
G
15
2
5
5
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Doc. No. / Type
Subject/Title
Date
Restriction
Classification
01. Trip booklet
Security diagrams - trip to East Lansing, MI and Atlanta, GA (14
10/19-20
(b)(7)(c),
pp.)
(b)(7)(e), (b)(7)(f)
02. Daily schedule Name of briefer redacted (1 pp.)
n.d.
(b)(3)
03. Daily schedule
Name of briefer redacted (1 pp.)
n.d.
(b)(3)
04. Manifest
Marine One Manifest (1 pp.)
10/19/92
(b)(7)(c),
(b)(7)(e), (b)(7)(f)
05. Manifest
Air Force One Manifests (4 pp.)
10/19/92
(b)(7)(c),
(b)(7)(e), (b)(7)(f)
06. Schedule
Secret Service info redacted (1 pp.)
10/19/92
(b)(7)(c),
(b)(7)(e), (b)(7)(f)
07. Schedule
Motorcade Assignments Pages Two and Three redacted (2 pp.)
n.d.
(b)(7)(c),
(b)(7)(e), (b)(7)(f)
08. Schedule
Motorcade Assignments Pages Five and Six redacted (2 pp.)
n.d.
(b)(7)(c),
(b)(7)(e), (b)(7)(f)
09. Schedule
Train Manifest Pages Nine and Ten redacted (2 pp.)
n.d.
(b)(7)(c),
(b)(7)(e), (b)(7)(f)
Page 1 of 2
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Pinksheet Number:
LT10486
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
FOIA/Sys Case #:
2002-1005-S
Re-review Case #:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Doc. No. / Type
Subject/Title
Date
Restriction
Classification
10. Schedule
Secret Service info redacted (1 pp.)
10/19/92
(b)(7)(c),
(b)(7)(e), (b)(7)(f)
11. Schedule
Marine One Manifest and Motorcade Assignments redacted (4
10/19/92
(b)(7)(c),
pp.)
(b)(7)(e), (b)(7)(f)
12. Schedule
Motorcade Assignments Pages Seven and Eight redacted (2 pp.)
n.d.
(b)(7)(c),
(b)(7)(e), (b)(7)(f)
13. Schedule
Motorcade Assignments Pages Ten and Eleven redacted (2 pp.)
n.d.
(b)(7)(c),
(b)(7)(e), (b)(7)(f)
Page 2 of 2
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Pinksheet Number:
LT10486
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
FOIA/Sys Case #:
2002-1005-S
Re-review Case #:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
01. Trip booklet
Security diagrams - trip to East Lansing, MI and Atlanta,
10/19-20
(b)(7)(c), (b)(7)(e),
GA (14 pp.)
(b)(7)(f)
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - [5 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(1) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical Information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
SCHEDULE OF THE PRESIDENT
Monday, October 19, 1992
8:00 am
Personal Staff Time
Oval Office
(30 min)
8:30 am
Intelligence Briefing
Oval Office
(15 min)
(Scowcroft)
8:45 am
National Security Briefing
Oval Office
(30 min)
(Scowcroft)
9:15 am
Personal Staff Time
Oval Office
(15 min)
9:30 am
Debate Rehearsal
450 OEOB
(90 min)
(Baker)
11:00 am
Personal Staff Time
Oval Office
(60 min)
12:00 pm
Lunch
Oval Office
(30 min)
12:35 pm
The President and Mrs. Bush
South Lawn
depart for Lansing, Michigan
(TAB
A
I
Trip Schedule)
2:55 pm
B Arrive Wharton Hall,
East Lansing,
Michigan State University
Michigan
for Technical Walk-through
(Baker)
4:15 pm
B Arrive Radisson Hotel for
Private Time
6:15 pm
B Arrive Wharton Hall
6:20 pm
B Private Time
7:00 pm
B Presidential Debate
(Baker)
8:35 pm
B Private Time
UNP 10/16/92
6:00 pm
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
02. Daily
Name of briefer redacted (1 pp.)
n.d.
(b)(3)
schedule
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - [5 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(1) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disciose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
9:15 pm
B Arrive Civic Center for
Post Debate Welcome
(Kaufman)
(TAB B)
10:10 pm
B Depart Lansing for
Atlanta, Georgia
(TAB E - Trip Schedule)
12:05 am
B Arrive Airport Hilton
Atlanta,
Georgia
B RON Atlanta
SUPPLEMENTARY BRIEFING MATERIALS
TAB C -- Briefing on Local Issues, Michigan (Moore)
TAB D -- Michigan Political Briefing (Mullins)
TAB F -- Briefing on Local Issues, Georgia (Moore)
TAB G -- Georgia Political Briefing (Mullins)
7:37 POTUS In
7:40 Baker In
8:10 Baker out
8:32 scowcroft. Howe
In (b)(3)
8:33 Baker In
8:50 Boyden Gray In
8:55
Out (b)(3)
9:05 Boyden Gray out
9:16 Fitzwater In
4:22 Scowcroft, Howe out
9:31 Baker. Elwater Out
9:35 Baker In, Fitzwater Out
4:39 POTUS. Baker Out
9:43 POTUS, Baker In 450 OEOB
( Debate rehearsal w/: Provost, Ailes,
11:03 POTUS In
Teeter, Baker, Darman
)
11:49 Baker In
11:50 Baker out
12:06 POTUS Out to Mess
(LUNCH W/ Scowingt Marlin)
UNP 10/16/92
6:00 pm
SCHEDULE OF THE PRESIDENT
Monday, October 19, 1992
8:00 am
Personal Staff Time
Oval Office
(30 min)
8:30 am
Intelligence Briefing
Oval Office
(15 min)
(Scowcroft)
8:45 am
National Security Briefing
Oval Office
(30 min)
(Scowcroft)
9:15 am
Personal Staff Time
Oval Office
(15 min)
9:30 am
Debate Rehearsal
450 OEOB
(90 min)
(Baker)
11:00 am
Personal Staff Time
Oval Office
(60 min)
12:00 pm
Lunch
Oval Office
(30 min)
12:35 pm
The President and Mrs. Bush
South Lawn
depart for Lansing, Michigan
(TAB A --
Trip Schedule)
2:55 pm
B Arrive Wharton Hall,
East Lansing,
Michigan State University
Michigan
for Technical Walk-through
(Baker)
4:15 pm
B Arrive Radisson Hotel for
Private Time
6:15 pm
B Arrive Wharton Hall
6:20 pm
B Private Time
7:00 pm
B Presidential Debate
(Baker)
8:35 pm
B Private Time
UNP 10/16/92
6:00 pm
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
03. Daily
Name of briefer redacted (1 pp.)
n.d.
(b)(3)
schedule
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - [5 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(I) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
9:15 pm
B Arrive Civic Center for
Post Debate Welcome
(Kaufman)
(TAB B)
10:10 pm
B Depart Lansing for
Atlanta, Georgia
(TAB E - Trip Schedule)
12:05 am
B Arrive Airport Hilton
Atlanta,
Georgia
B RON Atlanta
SUPPLEMENTARY BRIEFING MATERIALS
TAB C -- -- Briefing on Local Issues, Michigan (Moore)
TAB D -- Michigan Political Briefing (Mullins)
TAB F--- Briefing on Local Issues, Georgia (Moore)
TAB G - Georgia Political Briefing (Mullins)
7:37 POTUS In
7:40 Baker In
8:10 Baker out
8:32 scowcroft. Howe
In (b)(3)
8:33 Baker In
8:55
8:50 Boyden 1 Gray In
Out (b)(3)
9:05 Boyden Gray out
9:16 Fitzwater In
9:22 Scowcroft, Howe out
9:31 Baker. Electroker out
9:35 Baker In, Fitzwater out
4:39 POTUS. Baker Out
9:43 POTUS, Baker In 450 OEOB
( Debate rehearsal Teeter, w/: Baker, Provost, Darman Ailes, )
11:03 POTUS In
11:49 Baker In
11:50 Baker out
12:06 POTUS Out to Mess
(LUNCH W/ Scowingt Marlin)
UNP 10/16/92
6:00 pm
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
TELEPHONE MEMORANDUM
OCTOBER 19th
, 19 92
PRESIDENT BUSH
TIME
NAME
ACTION
.
PLACED
DISC
OUT
8:41 AM
MR. C. BOYDEN GRAY
PER:MRS. ROSE M.
OFC: WASHINGTON, D.C.
ZAMARIA. MR. GRAY
WHITE HOUSE ADMIN EXT. 764
WENT TO OVAL OFFICE
INC
PM
XXX
TO SEE PRESUS
OUT
AM
9:04 A.M.
INC
PM
OUT
AM
INC
PM
OUT
11:01 AM
11:02
USHER'S OFFICE
TLKD-OK WITH MRS.
OFC: WASHINGTON, D.C.
NANCY F. MITCHELL
WHITE HOUSE ADMIN EXT. 780
11:01 A.M.
INC
XPM
OUT
AM
INC
PM
OUT
11:13 AM
11:15
MR. DONALD RHODES
OFC: WASHINGTON, D.C.
WHITE HOUSE ADMIN 6-7500
TLKD-OK 11:14 A.M.
INCX
XM
OUT
AM
INC
PM
XOURT
XHK
MR. JIMMY DEAN
TLKD WITH MS. ROBIN
RICHMOND, VA.
A. MAC LEAN
804-795-7710
6:01 P.M.
INC
6:00 PM
OUT
AM
INC
PM
OUT
AM
INC
PM
OUT
AM
INC
PM
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
TELEPHONE MEMORANDUM
SIGNAL SWITCHBOARD
October 19, 1992
TIME
NAME
ACTION
PLACED
DISC
sheehan
OUT
AM
Ms. Maria E. Eitel
Tlkd-ok
Red Sage Restaurant, Washington D.C.
1:24 PM
XXX
1:19 PM
1:25
638-4444
XXX
AM
Secretary Nicholas F. Brady
WCB
Office, Washington, D.C.
4:52 PM
INC
4:50 PM
White House Signal 7-2125
Tlkd-ok
OUT
AM
5:36 PM
INC
PM
XXX
AM
Vice President J. Danforth Quayle
Tlkd-ok
Marriott Financial Center
8:47 PM
New York City, New York
INC
8:35 PM
8:49
212-385-4900
OUT
AM
Secretary Barbara H. Franklin
Tlkd-ok
Residence, Washington, D.C.
10:00 PM
XXX
9:58 PM
10:05
965-3641
OUT
AM
INC
PM
OUT
AM
INC
PM
OUT
AM
INC
PM
OUT
AM
INC
PM
PRESIDENTIAL MOVEMENTS
Washington, D.C.
Lansing, Michigan
LOCATION
Atlanta, Georgia
DATE 190ctober 1992
TIME
MOVEMENTS
0733
South Grounds
0735
Oval Office
0741
Room 450, Old Executive Office Building
1058
Oval Office
1204
Staff Mess
1232
Oval Office
1234
South Grounds
1237
Depart South Grounds via Marine One
1245
Arrive Andrews Air Force Base, Maryland
1258
Depart Andrews Air Force Base via Air Force One
1415
Arrive Capitol City Airport, Lansing, Michigan
1435
Depart Capitol City Airport via Motorcade
1505
Arrive Wharton Center, Michigan State University
1536
Depart Wharton Center, Michigan State University via Motorcade
1550
Arrive Radisson Hotel
1801
Depart Radisson Hotel via Motorcade
1816
Arrive Wharton Center, Michigan State University
2104
Depart Wharton Center, Michigan State University via Motorcade
2119
Arrive Civic Center
2147
Depart Civic Center
2210
Arrive Capitol City Airport
2221
Depart Capitol City Airport via Air Force One
2340
Arrive Atlanta Hartsfield International Airport, Atlanta, Georgia
2345
Depart Atlanta Hartsfield International Airport via Motorcade
2352
Arrive Airport Hilton Hotel
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
Monday, October 19
6:00 Breakfast for the President and Mrs. Bush
7:30 The President to the Oval Office
8:37 Mrs. Bush to the South Grounds
11:39 Mrs. Bush to the Second Floor
11:57 Nancy Graux to the Second Floor
12:35 President and Mrs. Bush depart South Grounds en route
Andrews AFB and Michigan for third and final debate
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
04. Manifest
Marine One Manifest (1 pp.)
10/19/92
(b)(7)(c), (b)(7)(e),
(b)(7)(f)
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - [5 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(1) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
05. Manifest
Air Force One Manifests (4 pp.)
10/19/92
(b)(7)(c), (b)(7)(e),
(b)(7)(f)
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - [5 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(1) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
AIRCRAFT #28000
MISSION #1219 - LEG #3
ATLANTA (HARTSFIELD INT'L ARPT), GA TO ANDREWS AFB, MD
20 October 1992
DPT: 0020 ARR: 0132 1+10 (NC) 600 SM
NO PASSENGERS ON BOARD!!!!!
FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
06. Schedule
Secret Service info redacted (1 pp.)
10/19/92
(b)(7)(c), (b)(7)(e),
(b)(7)(f)
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - [5 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(1) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose Internal personnel rules and practices of an
security Information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which orlginated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal prlvacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
SCHEDULE OF THE PRESIDENT AND MRS. BUSH
FOR
ATLANTA, GEORGIA
OCTOBER 19 - 20, 1992
EVENTS:
WSB-TV "Ask George Bush" Taping
DRESS:
Men
- Business Suit
Women
- Day Dress
CONTACTS:
Office of Presidential Advance
John G. Keller, Jr.
- 202/456-7565
Trip Coordinator
Suzanne Faulk/Lori Rosso
- 202/456-7565
Atlanta, Georgia Signal
- 404/761-9755
- * 96-31000
ADVANCE:
Ed Cowling
- LEAD
Susan Vallen
- HOTEL
Scott Fassett
- PRESS
Kathy McCoy
- SITE
USSS
Kathy Burton
- PRESS
Wayne Justice
- MIL. AIDE
David Jetkiewicz
- WHCA
Cal Dixon
- HMX
WEATHER:
Mostly Sunny/High 50's
SCHEDULE OF THE PRESIDENT AND MRS. BUSH
FOR
ATLANTA, GEORGIA
OCTOBER 19 - 20, 1992
Monday, October 19, 1992
11:45 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Hartsfield
E.D.T.)
International Airport, Atlanta, Georgia and board
Motorcade.
Met by:
The Honorable Newt Gingrich
U.S. Representative, Georgia, 6th District
Mr. Paul Coverdell
Candidate, U.S. Senate, Georgia
Mr. Fred Cooper
Chairman, Georgia Bush-Quayle
Mr. Bob Barr
Co-Chair, Georgia Bush-Quayle -
Mr. Johnny Isakson
Co-Chair, Georgia Bush-Quayle
Mr. Tom Phillips
Co-Chair, Georgia Bush-Quayle
Mr. Alec Pointevant
National Committeeman, Georgia Bush-Quayle
Dr. David Remaley
Physicians for Bush
Dr. John Godwin
Physicians for Bush
Mr. Matt Towery
Families for Bush
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
07. Schedule
Motorcade Assignments Pages Two and Three redacted (2
n.d.
(b)(7)(c), (b)(7)(e),
pp.)
(b)(7)(f)
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - 15 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(I) National security classified information
C(I) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRAJ
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
Mr. Ray Saunders
Co-Chair, Georgia Farmers for Bush
Ms. Alice Lovejoy
Co-Chair, Georgia Farmers for Bush
Mr. Bob Herriott
Co-Chair, Veterans for Bush
Mr. Max Carey
Co-Chair, Veterans for Bush
Dr. James Merritt
Pastor, 1st Baptist Church of Snellville
11:55 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Hartsfield
International Airport en route Atlanta Airport
Hilton Hotel.
MOTORCADE ASSIGNMENTS:
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
Page Two
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
(Drive Time: 10 Minutes)
GUEST AND STAFF INSTRUCTIONS:
Upon arrival at Atlanta Airport Hilton
Hotel, Guests and Staff will be escorted
to Lobby for Room Assignments and Keys.
Page Three
Tuesday, October 20, 1992
12:05 am
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Atlanta Airport
Hilton Hotel and proceed to Suite.
Met by:
Mr. Frank Otero
General Manager, Atlanta Airport Hilton Hotel
Mr. John Mazzoni
Executive Assistant Manager, Atlanta Airport
Hilton Hotel
Mr. Chris Perry
Director of Sales, Atlanta Airport Hilton Hotel
Mr. Marshall Hilliard
Convention Service Manager, Atlanta Airport Hilton
Hotel
12:10 am
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Suite for RON.
RON Atlanta, Georgia
Page Four
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
08. Schedule
Motorcade Assignments Pages Five and Six redacted (2 pp.)
n.d.
(b)(7)(c), (b)(7)(e),
(b)(7)(f)
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - [5 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(1) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed In accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
Information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
Tuesday, October 20, 1992
GUEST AND STAFF INSTRUCTIONS:
9:00 am Baggage Call. Please place all
unlocked baggage outside your
room at this time. (NOTE:
Baggage will be transported to
Spartanberg, South Carolina
independent of Train. For
items to be available on Train,
they must be hand carried.)
9:15 am Guests and Staff attending
WSB-TV taping should board
Motorcade at this time.
9:45 am Guests and Staff not attending
WSB-TV taping, please board
Vans at Lobby Entrance at this
time for transport to Armour
Drive Train Yard.
9:20 am
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Suite and
board Motorcade.
9:25 am
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Atlanta Airport
Hilton Hotel en route WSB-TV.
MOTORCADE ASSIGNMENTS:
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
Page Five
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
(Drive Time: 20 Minutes)
GUEST AND STAFF INSTRUCTIONS:
Upon arrival at WSB-TV, Guests and
Staff will be escorted to Staff Holding/
Viewing Area.
Please board Motorcade no later than
10:50 am for transport to Armour Drive
Train Yard.
Page Six
9:45 am
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive WSB-TV and
proceed to Holding Room for Private Time.
Met by:
Mr. Greg Stone
Vice President and General Manager, WSB-TV
Mr. Mark Morgan
Vice President and General Manager, WSB Radio
Mr. Richard Moore
News Director, WSB-TV
9:47 am
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Holding Room
for Private Time.
NOTE:
Mrs. Bush will be escorted to seat
in Studio B at this time.
(PRIVATE TIME: 10 MINUTES)
9:57 am
THE PRESIDENT departs Holding Room and proceeds to
Studio B.
EVENT:
WSB-TV "ASK GEORGE BUSH" TAPING
EXPANDED POOL
QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION
NOTE:
Program will Air at 6:00 pm EDT.
10:00 am
THE PRESIDENT arrives Studio B, proceeds to Seat
and is Seated.
Met by:
Mr. Bill Nigut
WSB-TV Political Correspondent
Page Seven
10:02 am
THE PRESIDENT begins participation in Question and
Answer Session moderated by Mr. Nigut.
10:55 am
THE PRESIDENT concludes participation in Question
and Answer Session and, with Mrs. Bush, departs
Studio B and proceeds to Holding Room.
10:56 am
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Holding Room
and hold briefly.
10:58 am
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Holding Room
and board Motorcade.
11:00 am
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart WSB-TV
en route Armour Drive Train Yard.
MOTORCADE ASSIGNMENTS:
Same as on Arrival.
(Drive Time: 10 Minutes)
GUEST AND STAFF INSTRUCTIONS:
Upon arrival at Armour Drive Train Yard,
Guests and Staff will be escorted to
Guest and Staff Cars.
11:10 am
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Armour Drive
Train Yard and board Train.
Page Eight
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
09. Schedule
Train Manifest Pages Nine and Ten redacted (2 pp.)
n.d.
(b)(7)(c), (b)(7)(e),
(b)(7)(f)
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - 15 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(1) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA)
concerning wells
11:15 am
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Atlanta,
Georgia en route Norcross, Georgia.
TRAIN MANIFEST:
(From Back to Front)
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
Page Nine
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
(Track Time: 30 Minutes)
Page Ten
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
10. Schedule
Secret Service info redacted (1 pp.)
10/19/92
(b)(7)(c), (b)(7)(e),
(b)(7)(f)
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - 15 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(1) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
SCHEDULE OF THE PRESIDENT AND MRS. BUSH
FOR
EAST LANSING, MICHIGAN
OCTOBER 19, 1992
EVENTS:
Technical Walk-Through of Debate Site
Presidential Debate
Post Debate Welcome
DRESS:
:
Men
- Business Suit
Women
- Day Dress
CONTACT:
Office of Presidential Advance
John G. Keller, Jr.
- 202/456-7565
Trip Coordinator
- 202/456-7565
Peggy Hazelrigg
East Lansing, Michigan Signal
- 517/371-8000
* 96 44 000
ADVANCE:
Brad Blakeman
- LEAD
Damon Moley
- SITE
Kelley Gannon
- PRESS
Theresa Wiedel
- PRESS
(a)) (b) (E) (byr)
- USSS
Dan McCardell
- PRESS
Joe Walsh
- MIL. AIDE
Patricia Conrad
- HOTEL
Tom Wilson
- WHCA
Bob Athey
- SITE
John Kirk
- AFI
John Durkin
- SITE
Anne Dickerson
- SITE
Debate Team:
Ed Murnane
- LEAD
Kim Brady
- SITE
Bob Krebs
- SITE
WEATHER:
Mostly Sunny/low 50's
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
11. Schedule
Marine One Manifest and Motorcade Assignments redacted
10/19/92
(b)(7)(c), (b)(7)(e),
(4 pp.)
(b)(7)(f)
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - [5 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(1) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
SCHEDULE OF THE PRESIDENT AND MRS. BUSH
FOR
EAST LANSING, MICHIGAN
OCTOBER 19, 1992
GUEST AND STAFF INSTRUCTIONS:
9:55 am Baggage Call. Please place all
unlocked baggage outside Room
89 1/2, O.E.O.B., at this time.
11:50 am Vans depart West Basement
en route Andrews Air Force
Base.
11:50 am Those with own transportation
and baggage should arrive
Andrews Air Force Base,
Distinguished Visitor's
Lounge, at this time.
12:10 pm
Those with own transportation
without baggage should arrive
Andrews Air Force Base,
Distinguished Visitor's
Lounge, at this time.
12:35 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush board Marine One and
depart White House en route Andrews Air Force
Base.
MARINE ONE MANIFEST:
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
(Flying Time: 10 Minutes)
12:45 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Andrews Air
Force Base and board Air Force One.
12:55 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Andrews Air
(E.D.T.)
Force Base en route Lansing, Michigan.
(Flying Time: 1 Hour 30 Minutes)
(Interchange: No)
(Time Change: None)
(Food Service: Lunch)
GUEST AND STAFF INSTRUCTIONS:
Upon arrival at Capital City Airport,
Secure Package Staff only should board
Motorcade for transport to Wharton Center,
Michigan State University.
Remaining Guests and Staff should
proceed to buses for transport to
Radisson Hotel.
Upon arrival at Radisson Hotel, Guests
and Staff will be escorted to Senior
Staff Office/Lounge (Room 1008/1010) or
Staff Office (Room 1128).
2:25 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Capital City
(E.D.T.)
Airport, Lansing, Michigan and board Motorcade.
Met by:
The Honorable and Mrs. John Engler (Michelle)
Governor of Michigan
Page Two
The Honorable Connie Binsfeld and Mr. John
Binsfeld
Lt. Governor of Michigan
Mr. and Mrs. David Doyle (Lori)
Chairman, Michigan Republican Party
Mr. Chuck Yob
Michigan GOP National Committteeman
Mrs. Betsy DeVos
Michigan GOP National Committeewoman
Mr. Bill Schuette
Director, Michigan Department of Agriculture
Mr. Dean Pridgeon
Candidate, Michigan State University Board of
Trustees
Ms. Melanie Reinhold
Candidate, Michigan State University Board of
Trustees
Lt. Colonel Bill Smith
Bush/Quayle Supporter
Mr. Elroy Sailor
Bush/Quayle Supporter
Mrs. Susy Canyock
Chairman, Oakland County Young Republicans
Mrs. Noelle Clark
Chair, Michigan Chapter of National Federation
of Independent Businesses
NOTE: Mrs. Bush assumes separate schedule at this
time.
2:35 pm
THE PRESIDENT departs Capital City Airport en
route Wharton Center, Michigan State University.
MOTORCADE ASSIGNMENTS:
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
Page Three
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
:
(Drive Time: 25 Minutes)
GUEST AND STAFF INSTRUCTIONS:
Upon arrival at Wharton Center, Michigan
State University, Secure Package Staff
will be escorted to Staff Viewing/Holding
Areas.
Please board Motorcade no later than
3:55 pm for transport to Radisson Hotel.
3:00 pm
THE PRESIDENT arrives Wharton Center, Michigan
State University and proceeds to Holding Room.
Page Four
Met by:
Dr. and Mrs. Gordon Guyer (Norma)
President, Michigan State University
Mr. Eric Hendrickson
President, Council of Graduate Students,
Michigan State University
Ms. Angela Allen
Chairperson, Black Student Alliance,
Michigan State University
Ms. Cara Cichowski
Chairperson, Academic Assembly,
Michigan State University
Mr. Aaron Mefford
Chairperson, Student Assembly,
Michigan State University
EVENT:
TECHNICAL WALK-THROUGH OF DEBATE SITE
CLOSED PRESS
3:05 pm
THE PRESIDENT arrives Holding Room and begins
participation in Technical Walk-Through.
NOTE:
During Walk-Through, THE PRESIDENT will
Tour Holding Room, Stage, and
participate in a Technical Briefing.
4:00 pm
THE PRESIDENT concludes participation in
Technical Walk-Through, departs Stage Area and
boards Motorcade.
4:05 pm
THE PRESIDENT departs Wharton Center, Michigan
State University en route Radisson Hotel.
Page Five
MOTORCADE ASSIGNMENTS:
Same as on Arrival.
(Drive Time: 10 Minutes)
GUEST AND STAFF INSTRUCTIONS:
Upon arrival at Radisson Hotel, Secure
Package Staff should proceed to Senior
Staff Office/Lounge (Room 1008/1010) or
Staff Office (Room 1128).
4:15 pm
THE PRESIDENT arrives Radisson Hotel and proceeds
to Tenth Floor.
4:17 pm
THE PRESIDENT arrives Tenth Floor and proceeds to
Suite.
Met by:
Mr. Roy Croop
General Manager, Radisson Hotel
Mr. Craig Reber
Assistant General Manager, Radisson Hotel
4:20 pm
THE PRESIDENT arrives Suite for Private Time.
NOTE:
Mrs. Bush rejoins THE PRESIDENT at this
time.
(PRIVATE TIME: 1 HOUR 40 MINUTES)
Page Six
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
12. Schedule
Motorcade Assignments Pages Seven and Eight redacted (2
n.d.
(b)(7)(c), (b)(7)(e),
pp.)
(b)(7)(f)
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - [5 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(1) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
GUEST AND STAFF INSTRUCTIONS:
For those wishing to visit Wharton Center,
Michigan State University, Shuttles
will be provided from Radisson Hotel
to Wharton Center every half hour from
2:00 - 6:00 pm and from 7:30 pm - 10:00
pm.
For White House and Bush/Quayle staff
needing transport elsewhere, please call
Motorpool Dispatch (Drop 44-398 or
Stateroom 3.)
Guests and Staff not manifested in
Secure Package Motorcade, will be
escorted from Lobby at 5:15 pm for
transport to Wharton Center, Michigan
State University.
Guests and Staff manifested in Secure
Package Motorcade should board Motorcade
no later than 5:50 pm for transport
to Wharton Center, Michigan State
University.
6:00 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Suite and
proceed to Motorcade.
6:05 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Radisson Hotel
en route Wharton Center, Michigan State
University.
MOTORCADE ASSIGNMENTS:
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
Page Seven
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
(Drive Time: 10 Minutes)
GUEST AND STAFF INSTRUCTIONS:
Upon arrival at Wharton Center, Michigan
State University, Secure Package Staff
will be escorted to Staff Viewing/Holding
Areas.
Immediately following Debate, all Guests
and Staff should board Motorcade for
transport to Civic Center.
Page Eight
6:15 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Wharton Center,
Michigan State University and proceed to Holding
Room.
6:20 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Holding Room
for Private Time.
NOTE:
Mrs. Bush proceeds to VIP Seating at
this time.
(PRIVATE TIME: 35 MINUTES)
6:55 pm
THE PRESIDENT departs Holding Room and proceeds to
Off-Stage Area.
6:57 pm
THE PRESIDENT arrives Off-Stage Area and holds
briefly.
EVENT:
PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE
OPEN PRESS
LIVE TELEVISION COVERAGE
ON-STAGE ANNOUNCEMENT
QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION
CLOSING STATEMENT
7:00 pm
THE PRESIDENT is announced onto Stage by Mr. Jim
Lehrer, MacNeil-Lehrer NewsHour and Debate
Moderator, proceeds to Podium and begins
participation in Question and Answer Session.
8:24 pm Governor Clinton gives closing
statement.
Page Nine
Withdrawal/Redaction Sheet
(George Bush Library)
Document No.
Subject/Title of Document
Date
Restriction
Class.
and Type
13. Schedule
Motorcade Assignments Pages Ten and Eleven redacted (2
n.d.
(b)(7)(c), (b)(7)(e),
pp.)
(b)(7)(f)
Collection:
Record Group:
Bush Presidential Records
Office:
Appointments and Scheduling, White House Office of
Series:
Presidential Daily Diary, Backup
Subseries:
WHORM Cat.:
File Location:
[Presidential Daily Backup] 10/19/1992
Date Closed:
6/4/1998
OA/ID Number:
26860-010
FOIA/SYS Case #:
2002-1005-S
Appeal Case #:
Re-review Case #:
Appeal Disposition:
P-2/P-5 Review Case #:
Disposition Date:
AR Case #:
MR Case #:
AR Disposition:
MR Disposition:
AR Disposition Date:
MR Disposition Date:
RESTRICTION CODES
Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) - [5 U.S.C. 552(b)]
Deed of Gift Restrictions
(b)(1) National security classified information
C(1) Closed by Executive Order 13526, governing access to national
(b)(2) Release would disclose internal personnel rules and practices of an
security information
agency
C(2) Closed by statute or by the agency which originated the information
(b)(3) Release would violate a Federal statute
C(3) Closed in accordance with restrictions contained in donor's deed of
(b)(4) Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential or financial
gift [formerly listed as only C]
information
PRM. Removed as a personal record misfile
(b)(6) Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion
of personal privacy
(b)(7) Release would disclose information compiled for law enforcement
Presidential Records Act - [44 U.S.C. 2204(a)]
purposes
(b)(8) Release would disclose information concerning the regulation of
P-2 Relating to the appointment to Federal office [(a)(2) of the PRA]
financial institutions
P-5 Release would disclose confidential advice between the President and
(b)(9) Release would disclose geological or geophysical information
his advisors, or between such advisors [(a)(5) of the PRA]
concerning wells
8:26 pm
THE PRESIDENT gives Closing Statement.
8:28 pm
THE PRESIDENT concludes Closing Statement
and remains Standing.
8:29 pm Mr. Perot gives closing statement.
NOTE:
Following closing statements, Mrs. Bush
and Family Members join THE PRESIDENT on
Stage.
8:31 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush conclude participation
in Presidential Debate, depart Stage, and
proceed to Holding Room.
8:35 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Holding Room
for Private Time.
;
(PRIVATE TIME: 25 MINUTES)
9:00 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Holding Room
and board Motorcade.
9:05 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Wharton Center,
Michigan State University en route Civic Center.
MOTORCADE ASSIGNMENTS:
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
Page Ten
(b) (7)(C), (b) (7)(E), (b) (7)(F)
(Drive Time: 10 Minutes)
GUEST AND STAFF INSTRUCTIONS:
Upon arrival at Civic Center,
Guests and Staff will be escorted
to Staff Viewing Area or Holding Rooms.
Please board Motorcade no later than
9:35 pm for transport to Capital City
Airport.
9:15 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Civic Center
and proceed to Holding Room.
Page Eleven
9:17 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Holding Room
and hold briefly.
9:20 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Holding Room
and proceed to Off-Stage Area.
9:22 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Off-Stage Area
and hold briefly.
NOTE:
Dais participants are already on stage
at this time.
EVENT:
POST DEBATE WELCOME
OPEN PRESS
;
ON-STAGE ANNOUNCEMENT
BRIEF REMARKS
TOAST LECTERN
9:25 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush are announced onto
Stage by Ms. Wynonna Judd, Singer, and remain
Standing.
9:30 pm
THE PRESIDENT makes Brief Remarks.
9:40 pm
THE PRESIDENT concludes Brief Remarks and, with
Mrs. Bush, departs Stage and boards Motorcade.
9:45 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Civic Center en
route Capital City Airport.
Page Twelve
MOTORCADE ASSIGNMENTS:
Same as on Arrival.
(Drive Time: 20 Minutes)
10:05 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush arrive Capital City
Airport and board Air Force One.
10:10 pm
THE PRESIDENT and Mrs. Bush depart Lansing,
(E.D.T.)
Michigan en route Atlanta, Georgia.
(Flying Time: 1 Hour 35 Minutes)
(Interchange: No)
(Time Change: None)
(Food Service: Late Dinner)
;
Page Thirteen
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
October 16, 1992
POST DEBATE WELCOME
DATE:
Monday, October 19, 1992
TIME:
9:20 p.m.
LOCATION: Lansing Civic Center
FROM:
Ronald Kaufman
I. PURPOSE
To generate post-debate enthusiasm among local Republican
supporters.
II. BACKGROUND
Those in attendance are local supporters, Republican elected
officials, Bush/Quayle campaign leaders, Victory '92 leaders
and grass roots volunteers from Lansing and surrounding
communities.
III. PARTICIPANTS
The President
Mrs. Bush
Governor John Engler
Approximately 5,000 supporters
IV. PRESS PLAN
Open.
V.
SEQUENCE OF EVENTS
See Advance Schedule for details.
VI. REMARKS
Remarks provided by the Office of Speechwriting.
Ug
10/19
POLL REPORT AIR FORCE FROM ANDREWS TO LANSING, MICH
A JOCULAR Marlin Fitzwater came back before takeoff
and bantered briefly. The highlights:
RE TRAVEL: He sand "basically 3. $ stops a day until the
election. He said "mostly Midwest. ! A couple of oniters.
RE FINAL DEBATE: "You're going to see (cq) strong
persuasive, powerful, winner-going-away George Bush. He's
going to be terrific.
RE NAYSAMERS, DOOM AND GLOOMERS: Naysayers. Shame on them
He's going to win
biq."
Fred Malek came back ever SO briefly
midflight and exchanged a few please antries before
Sig Rogich, that's ambassador to you, summoned him
back up.
-30-
barabak- copley
fredman- US news
POOL REPORT # 3
October 19, 1992
(East Lansing, Michigan)
The President spent about half an hour inside the Debate Hall out
of our sight. As his motorcade left the University, the road was
lined with both Clinton and Bush supporters. Clinton signs
included "Two more weeks" and "George your lie is open." We
motorcaded to the Radisson about 15 minutes away where the
President was greeted by a few hundred young people - many of
them from high schools, carrying Bush/Quayle signs and chanting
"FOUR MORE YEARS." There was a high school band playing, and
about 8 or so of the Radisson Parking valets greeted the
President at the door. The President walked out toward the
street to wave at the crowd and signal two thumbs up to the
parking workers. He then went into the hotel until time to
depart for the debate.
Julia Malone - Cox Newspapers
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
(Lansing, Michigan)
For Immediate Release
October 19, 1992
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT,
GOVERNOR BILL CLINTON AND MR. ROSS PEROT
IN THE THIRD PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE OF 1992
Wharton Center for the Performing Arts
Michigan State University
Lansing, Michigan
7:00 P.M. EDT
M. LEHRER: Good evening. Welcome to this third
and final debate among the three major candidates for President
of the United States -- Governor Bill Clinton, the Democratic
nominee; President George Bush, the Republican nominee --
(applause) -- and independent candidate, ROSS Perot. (Applause.)
I am Jim Lehrer, of the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour on
PBS. I will be the moderator for this debate, which is being
sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. It will be
90 minutes long. It is happening before an audience on the
campus of Michigan state University in East Lansing.
The format was conceived by and agreed to by
representatives of the Bush and Clinton campaigns. But then it
is somewhat different than those used in the earlier debates. I
will ask questions for the first half under rules that permit
follow-ups. A panel of three other journalists will ask
questions in the second half under rules that do not. As always,
each candidate will have two minutes -- up to two minutes to make
a closing statement. The order of those, as well as that for the
formal questioning were all determined by a drawing.
Gentlemen, again welcome and again good evening.
It seems from what some of those voters said at your
Richmond debate and from polling and other data that each of you,
fairly or not, faces serious voter concerns about the underlying
credibility and believability of what each of you says you would
do as President in the next four years.
Governor Clinton, in accordance with the draw, those
concerns about you are first. You are promising to create jobs,
reduce the deficit, reform the health care system, rebuild the
infrastructure, guarantee college education for everyone who is
qualified, among many other things -- all with financial pain
only for the very rich. Some people are having trouble,
apparently, believing that is possible. should they have that
concern?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: No. There are many people who
believe that the only way we can get this country turned around
is to tax the middle class more and punish them more. But the
truth is that middle class Americans are basically the garing the
of Americans who have been taxed more in the 1980s THE
The
last 12 years, even though their
Middle class people will have their fair share of
changing to do and many challenges to face, including the
challenge of becoming constantly reeducated. But my plan is a
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departure from trickle-down economics, just cutting taxes on the
wealthiest Americans and getting out of the way. It's also a
departure from tax-and-spend economics because you can't tax and
divide an economy that isn't growing.
I propose an American version of what works in other
countries. I think we can do it better -- invest and grow. I
believe we can increase investment and reduce the deficit at the
same time if we not only ask the wealthiest Americans and foreign
corporations to pay their fair share. We also provide over $100
billion in tax relief in terms of incentives, new plants, new
small businesses, new technologies, new housing, and for middle
class families; and we have $140 billion of spending cuts.
Invest and grow. Raise some more money, spend the
money on tax incentives to have growth in the private sector,
take the money from the defense cuts and reinvest it in new
transportation and communications and environmental cleanup
systems. This will work.
On this, as on so many other issues, I have a
fundamental difference from the present administration. I
believe trickle-down economics will work. Unemployment is
Most people are working harder for less money than they wer
making 10 years ago. I think we can do better if we have
courage to change.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, a response.
THE PRESIDENT: DO I have one minute? Just the
ground rules here.
MR. LEHRER: well, you have roughly one minute. We
can loosen that up a little bit. But go ahead.
THE PRESIDENT: He doesn't like trickle-down
government, but, hey, I think he's talking about the Reagan-Bush
years where WE created 15 million jobs. The rich are paying a
bigger percent of the total tax burden. And what I don't like is
trickle-down government. And therein -- I think Governor Clinton
keeps talking about trickle-down, trickle-down, and he's still
talking about spending more and taxing more.
Government -- he says invest government; grow
government. Government doesn't create jobs. If they do, they're
make-work jobs. It's the private sector that creates jobs. And,
yes, we've got too many taxes on the American people and we're
spending too much. And that's why I want to get the deficit down
by controlling the growth of mandatory spending.
It won't be painless. I think Mr. Perot put his
finger on something there. It won't be painless, but we've got
to get the job done. But not by raising taxes.
Mr. and Mrs. America, when you hear him say we're
going to tax only the rich, watch your wallet, because his
figures don't add up, and he's going to sock it right to the
middle class taxpayer and lower if he's going to pay for all the
spending programs he's proposed. so we have a big difference on
this trickle-down theory. I do not want any more trickle-down
government. It's gotten too big. I want to do something about
that.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, what do you think of the
Governor's approach -- what he just laid out?
MR. PEROT: Well, the basic problem with it is it
doesn't balance the budget. If you forecast it out, you still
will have a significant deficit under each of their plans, as I
understand them. our challenge is to stop the financial
bleeding. If you take a patient into a hospital that's bleeding
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arterially, step one is to stop the bleeding. And we are
bleeding arterially.
There's only one way out of this. And that 18 to
stop the deterioration of our job base, to have a growing,
expanding job base, to give us the tax base. see, balancing the
budget is not nearly as difficult as paying off the s4-trillion
debt and leaving our children the American Dream intact. We have
spent their money; we have got to pay it back. This is going to
take fair shared sacrifice.
MY plan balances the budget within six years. We
didn't do it faster than that because we didn't want to disrupt
the economy. We gave it off to a slow start and a fast finish to
give the economy time to recover. But we faced it and we did it.
And we believe it's fair shared sacrifice.
The one thing I have done is lay it squarely on the
table in front of the American people. You've had a number of
occasions to see in detail what the plan is and at least you'll
understand it. I think that's fundamental in our country that
you know what you're getting into.
MR. LEHRER: Governor, the word "pain" -- one of the
other leadership things that's put on you is that you don't speak
of pain. That you speak of all things -- nobody's going to
really have to suffer under your plan. You've heard what Mr.
Perot has said. He said -- to do the things that you want to do,
you can't do it by just taking the money from the rich. That's
what the President says as well. HOW do you respond to that?
The numbers don't add up.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I disagree with both of them.
For one thing -- let me just follow up here. I disagree with Mr.
Perot that the answer is to raise -- put a 50-cent gas tax on the
middle class and raise more taxes on the middle class and the
working poor than on the wealthy. His own analysis says that
unemployment will be slightly higher in 1995 under his plan than
it is today. And as far as what Mr. Bush says, he is the person
who raised taxes on the middle class after saying he wouldn't.
And just this year Mr. Bush vetoed a tax increase on the wealthy
that gave middle class tax relief. He vetoed middle class tax
relief this year.
And furthermore, under this administration, spending
has increased more than it has in the last 20 years -- and he
asked Congress to spend more money than it actually spent. Now,
it's hard to outspend Congress, but he tried to for the last
three years.
so my view is the middle class is the -- they've
been suffering, Jim. Now, should people pay more for Medicare if
they can? Yes. Should they pay more for Social Security if they
get more out of it than they've paid in and they're upper income
people? Yes. But look what's happened to the middle class.
Middle class Americans are working harder for less money than
they were making 10 years ago and they're paying higher taxes.
The tax burden on them has not gone down; it has gone up.
I don't think the answer is to slow the economy down
more, drive unemployment up more, and undermine the health of the
private sector. The answer is to invest and grow this economy.
That's what works in other countries and that's what will work
here.
MR. LEHRER: As a practical matter, Mr. President,
do you agree with the Governor when he says that the middle class
-- the taxes on the middle class -- do your numbers agree that
the taxes on the middle class have gone up during the last --
THE PRESIDENT: Everybody is paying too much taxes.
He refers to one tax increase. Let me remind you it was a
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Democratic tax increase. And I didn't want to do it and I went
along with it. And I said I make a mistake -- if I make a
mistake, I admit it. That's quite different than some. But I
think that's the American way.
I think everyone is paying too much. But I think
this idea that you can go out and -- then he hits me for vetoing
a tax bill. Yes, I did. And the American taxpayer ought to be
glad they have a President to stand up to a spending Congress.
We remember what it was like when we had a spending
President and a spending Congress and interest rates -- who
remembers that -- they were 21.5 percent under Jimmy Carter. And
inflation was 15. We don't want to go back to that.
And so, yes, everybody's taxed too much, and I want
to get the taxes down. But not by signing a tax bill that's
going to raise taxes on people.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, when you said just then
that you admit your mistakes, and you looked at Governor Clinton
and said -- what mistake is it that you want him to admit to?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the record in Arkansas. I
mean, look at it. And that's what we're asking America to have?
Now, look, he says Arkansas's a poor state. They are. But in
almost every category -- they're lagging. I'll give you an
example.
He talks about all the jobs he's created in one or
two years. Over the last 10 years since he's been Governor,
they're 30 percent behind. They're 30 percent of the national
average. on pay for teachers, on all these categories, Arkansas
is right near the very bottom.
You haven't heard me mention this before, but we're
getting close now and I think it's about time I start putting
things in perspective. And I'm going to do that. It's not dirty
campaigning because he's been talking about my record for half a
year here, 11 months here. And so we've got to do that. I've
got to get it in perspective.
What's his mistake? Admit it, that Arkansas is
doing very, very badly against any standard -- environment,
support for police officers, whatever it is.
MR. LEHRER: Governor, is that true?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Mr. Bush's Bureau of Labor
statistics says that Arkansas ranks first in the country in the
growth of new jobs this year -- first.
THE PRESIDENT: This year.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Fourth in manufacturing jobs.
Fourth in the reduction of poverty. Fourth in income increase.
Over the last 10 years we've created manufacturing jobs much more
rapidly than the national average. over the last five years our
income has grown more rapidly than the national average. We are
second in tax burden -- the second lowest tax burden in the
country. We have the lowest per capita state and local spending
in the country.
We are low spending, low tax burden. We've
dramatically increased and our jobs are growing. I wish America
had that kind of record, and I think most people looking at us
tonight would like it if we had more jobs and a lower spending
burden on the government.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, if you were sitting at home
now and just heard this exchange about Arkansas, who would you
believe?
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MR. PEROT: I grew up five blocks from
Arkansas. (Laughter.) Let's put it in perspective. It's a
beautiful state. It's a fairly rural state. It has a population
less than Chicago or Los Angeles, about the size of Dallas and
Fort Worth combined. So I think probably we're making a mistake
night after night after night to cast the nation's future on a
unit that small.
MR. LEHRER: Why is that a mistake?
MR. PEROT: It's irrelevant. (Laughter and
applause.)
MR. LEHRER: what he did as Governor of Arkansas --
MR. PEROT: No, no, no. But you can't -- I could
say that I ran a small grocery store on the corner; therefore, I
extrapolate that into the fact that I could run Wal-Mart. That's
not true. (Applause.) I can't protect an Arkansas --
MR. LEHRER: Governor?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Mr. Perot, with all respect, I
think it is highly relevant, and I think that a $4-billion budget
in state and federal funds is not all that small. And I think
the fact that I took a state that was one of the poorest states
in the country and had been for 153 years, and tried my best to
modernize its economy and to make the kind of changes that have
generated support from people like the presidents of Apple
Computer and Hewlett Packard and some of the biggest companies in
this country, 24 retired generals and admirals and hundreds of
business executives are highly relevant.
And, you know, I'm, frankly, amazed that since you
grew up five blocks from there you would think that what goes on
in that state is irrelevant. I think it's been pretty
impressive.
MR. PEROT: It's not --
GOVERNOR CLINTON: And the people who have jobs --
(applause) -- the people who have jobs and educations and
opportunities that didn't have them 10 years ago don't think it's
irrelevant at all. They think it's highly relevant, and wish the
rest of the country --
THE PRESIDENT: I don't have a dog in this fight,
but I'd like to get in on it.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: You think it's relevant.
(Laughter.)
THE PRESIDENT: Governor Clinton has to operate
under a balanced budget amendment. He has to do it. That is the
law. I'd like to see a balanced budget amendment for America, to
protect the American taxpayers. And then that would discipline
not only the Executive Branch, but the spending Congress, the
Congress that's been in control of one party -- his party -- for
33 years. And we almost had it done. And that institution, the
House of Representatives -- everyone's yelling "Clean House" --
one of the reasons is we almost had it done. And the Speaker --
very able, decent fellow, I might add -- but he twisted the arms
of some of the sponsors of that legislation and had them change
their vote.
What's relevant here is that tool, that discipline
that he has to live by in Arkansas -- and I'd like it for the
American people. I want the line-item veto. I want a check-off
so of the Congress can't do it, let people check off their income
tax, 10 percent of it, to compel the government to cut spending.
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And if they can't do it, if the Congress can't do it, let them
then have to do it across the board -- that's what we call a
sequester. That's the discipline we need. And I'm working for
that, to protect the American taxpayer against the big spenders.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, let's move to some of
the leadership concerns that have been voiced about you. And
they relate to something you said in your closing statement in
Richmond the other night about the President being the manager of
crises. And that relates to an earlier criticism that you began
to focus on the economy, on health care, on racial divisions in
this country only after they became crises. Is that a fair
criticism?
PRESIDENT BUSH: Jim, I don't think that's a fair
shot. I hear it. I hear it echoed by political opponents, but I
don't think it's fair. I think we've been fighting for day one
to do something about the inner cities. I'm for enterprise
zones. I have had it in every single proposal I've sent to the
Congress. And now we hear a lot of talk -- oh, well, we all want
enterprise zones. And yet the House and the Senate can't send it
down without loading it up with a lot of these Christmas tree
ornaments they put on the legislation. I don't think in racial
harmony that I'm a laggard on that. I've been speaking out since
day one.
We've gotten the Americans For Disabilities Act,
which I think is one of the foremost pieces of civil rights
legislation. And, yes, it took me to veto two civil rights quota
bills, because I don't believe in quotas, and I don't think the
American people believe in quotas. And I deep-backed the
Congress on that, and then we passed a decent civil rights bill
that offers guarantees against discrimination in employment. And
that is good.
I've spoken out over and over again against anti-
Semitism and racism, and I think my record as a member of
Congress speaks for itself on that.
What was the other part of it?
MR. LEHRER: well, it's just that -- you've spoken
to it. I mean, but the idea -- not so much in specifics --
PRESIDENT BUSH: Yes.
MR. LEHRER: -- but that it has to be a crisis
before you -- it gets your attention.
PRESIDENT BUSH: I don't think that's true at all.
I don't think that's true. But, you know, let others fire away
on it.
MR. LEHRER: Do you think that's true, Mr. Perot?
MR. PEROT: I'd like to just talk about issues, and
so --
MR. LEHRER: You don't think this is an issue?
MR. PEROT: Well, no. But the point is that's a
subjective thing. The subjective thing is when does President
Bush react. And I feel it would be very difficult for me to
answer that in any short period of time.
MR. LEHRER: well, then, let's phrase -- I'll phrase
it differently then. He said the other night in his closing
words in Richmond that one of the key things that he believes the
American people should decide between -- among the three of you,
is who they want in charge if this country gets to a crisis.
Now, that's what he said. And the rap on the President is that
it's only crises time that he focuses on some of these things.
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- 7 -
so my question to you -- we're going to talk about you in a
minute.
MR. PEROT: I thought you'd forgotten I was here.
(Laughter.)
MR. LEHRER: No, no, no. No, no. But my question
to you is -- so -- if you have nothing to say about it, fine.
I'll go to Governor Clinton. But --
MR. PEROT: I will let the American people decide
that. I would rather not critique the two candidates.
MR. LEHRER: All right.
Governor, what do you think?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: The only thing I would say about
that is I think that on the economy, Mr. Bush said for a long
time there was no recession and then said it would be better to
do nothing than to have a compromise effort with the Congress.
He really didn't have a new economic program until over 1,300
days into his presidency and not all of his health care
initiative has been presented to the Congress even now.
I think it's important to elect a President who is
committed to getting this economy going again and who realizes we
have to abandon trickle-down economics and put the American
people first again, and who will send programs to the Congress in
the first 100 days to deal with the critical issues that
America's crying out for leadership on -- jobs, incomes, the
health care crisis, the need to control the economy. Those
things deserve to be dealt with from day one. I will deal with
them from day one. They will be my first priority, not my
election year concerns.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I think you're overlooking
that we have had major accomplishments in the first term. But if
you're talking about protecting the taxpayer against his friends
in the United States Congress, go back to what it was like when
you had a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress. You
don't have to go back to Herbert Hoover. GO back to Jimmy
Carter. And interest rates were 21 percent, inflation was 15
percent, the Misery Index -- unemployment, inflation added
together -- it was invented by the Democrats -- went right
through the roof. We've cut it in half. And all you hear about
is how bad things are.
You know -- you remember the question, "Are you
better off?" well, is a homebuyer better off who can refinance
the home because interest rates are down? Is a senior citizen
better off because inflation is not wiping out their family
savings? I think they are. IS the guy out of work better off?
of course, he's not. But he's not going to be better off if we
grow the government -- if we invest, as Governor Clinton says,
invest in more government.
You've got to free up the private sector. You've
got to let small business have more incentives. For three months
-- three quarters, I've been fighting -- three quarters been
fighting to get the Congress to pass some incentives for small
business -- capital gains, investment tax allowance, credit for
first-time homebuyers. And it's blocked by the Congress. And
then if a little of it comes my way, they load it up with
Christmas trees and tax increases. And I have to stand up in
favor of the taxpayer.
MR. LEHRER: I have to let -- we have to talk about
Ross Perot now or he'll get me, I'm sure.
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Mr. Perot, on this issue that I have raised at the
very beginning and we've been talking about, which is leadership
as President of the United states, the concerns -- my reading of
it, at least -- my concerns about you, as expressed by folks in
the polls and other places, it goes like this: You've got a
problem with General Motors. You took your $750 million and you
left. You had a problem in the spring and summer about some
personal hits that you took as a potential candidate for
President of the United states, and you walked out. Does that
say anything relevant to how you would function as President of
the United States?
MR. PEROT: I think the General Motors thing is very
relevant. I did everything I could to get General Motors to face
its problems in the mid-'80s while it was still financially
strong. They just wouldn't do it. And everybody now knows the
terrible price they're paying by waiting until it's obvious to
the brain dead that they have problems. (Laughter.)
Now, hundreds -- thousands of good, decent people,
whole cities up here in this state are adversely impacted because
they would not move in a timely way. Our government is at that
point now. The thing that I am in this race for is to tap the
American people on the shoulder and to say to every single one of
you: Fix it while we're still relatively strong. If you have a
heart problem, you don't wait until the heart attack to address
it.
so the General Motors experience is relevant. At
the point when I could not get them to address those problems, I
had created so much stress in the board, who wanted just to keep
the Lawrence welk music going, that they asked to buy my
remaining shares. I sold them my remaining shares. They went
their way, I went my way. Because it was obvious we had a
complete disagreement about what should be done with the company.
But let's take my life in perspective. Again and
again on complex, difficult tasks, I have stayed the course.
When I was asked by our government to do the POW project, within
a year the Vietnamese had sent people into Canada to make
arrangements to have me and my family killed. And I had five
small children. And my family and I decided we would stay the
course, and we lived with that problem for three years.
Then I got into the Texans' war on drug program, and
the big-time drug dealers got all upset. Then when I had two
people imprisoned in Iran, I could have left them there, I could
have rationalized it. We went over, we got them out and we
brought them back home. And since then, for years, I have lived
with the burden of the Middle East where it's eye for an eye and
tooth for a tooth country in terms of their unhappiness with the
fact that I was successful in that effort.
Again and again and again, in the middle of the
night at 2:00 a.m. or 3:00 a.m. in the morning, my government has
called me to take extraordinary steps for Americans in distress.
And again and again and again, I have responded. And I didn't
wilt and I didn't quit.
Now, what happened in July we've covered again and
again and again. But I think in terms of the American people's
concern about my commitment -- and I'm here tonight, folks. I've
never quit supporting you as you put me on the ballot in the
other 26 states. And when you asked me to come back in, I came
back in. And talk about not quitting -- I'm spending my money on
this campaign. The two parties are spending your money --
taxpayer money. I've put my wallet on the table for you and your
children -- over $60 million at least will go into this campaign
to leave the American Dream to you and your children to get this
country straightened out. Because if anybody owes it to you, I
do. I've lived the American Dream; I'd like for your children to
be able to live it, too. (Applause.)
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MR. LEHRER: Governor, do you have a response to the
staying the course question about Mr. Perot?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I don't have any criticism of Mr.
Perot. I think what I'd like to talk about a minute is, since
you asked him the question was the General Motors issue. I don't
think there's any question that the automobile executives made
some errors in the 1980s, but I also think we should look at how
much productivity has increased lately how much labor has done
to increase productivity and how much management has done. We're
still losing a lot of auto jobs, in my judgment because we don't
have a national economic strategy that would build the industrial
base of this country.
Just today, I met with the presidents and the vice
presidents of the Willow Run Union near here. They both said
they were Vietnam veterans supporting me because I had an
economic program that put them back to work. We need an
investment incentive to modernize plant and equipment. We've got
to control the health care costs for those people; otherwise we
can't keep the manufacturing jobs here. And we need a tough
trade policy that is fair, that insists on open markets in return
for open markets. We ought to have a strategy that will build
the economic and industrial base.
so I think Mr. Perot was right in questioning the
management practices. But they didn't have much of a partner in
government here as compared with the policies the Germans and the
Japanese followed. And I believe we can do better. That's one
of the thing I want to change. I know that we can grow
manufacturing jobs. We did it in my state and we can do it
nationally.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, do you have a response?
THE PRESIDENT: To this?
MR. LEHRER: Yes.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I wondered when Governor
Clinton was talking to the autoworkers whether he talked about
his and Senator Gore's favoring CAFE standards -- those are fuel
efficiency standards - -- of 40 miles per gallon. That would break
the auto industry and throw a lot of people out of work.
AS regarding Mr. Perot, I take back something I said
about him. I once said in a frivolous moment when he got out of
the race, if you can't stand the heat, buy an air conditioning
mistake. And the thing I find is if I make a mistake I admit it.
company. And I take it back because I think he said he made a
I've never heard Governor Clinton make a mistake.
But one mistake he's made is fuel efficiency
standards at 40 to 45 miles per gallon will throw many
There's a pattern here of appealing to the autoworkers and then
autoworkers out of work. And you can't have it both ways.
trying to appeal to the spotted owl crowd or the extremes in the
environmental movement. You can't do it as President. You the can't
have a pattern of one side of the issue one day and another
next.
so my argument is not with ROSS Perot; it is more
with Governor Clinton.
MR. LEHRER: Governor, what about that charge --
having it both ways on this issue?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Let's just talk about the CAFE
standards.
MR. LEHRER: All right.
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standards. fleet. They're now 27.5 miles per gallon per automobile
GOVERNOR CLINTON: That's the fuel efficiency
gave an extensive environment speech in April. And I said that --
I never said -- and I defy you to find where I said I
we ought to have a goal of raising the fuel efficiency standards
to 40 miles a gallon. I think that should be a goal. I
goal cannot be achieved. The National Science Foundation did a
said we should write it into law if there is evidence that never that
study which said it would be difficult for us to reach fuel
efficiency 2000. standards in excess of 37 miles per gallon by the year
I think we should try to raise the fuel efficiency.
incentives to do it. I think we ought to push to do it. That
And let me say this: I think we ought to have
doesn't mean we have to write it into the.law.
is the Bush administration that has had no new jobs in the
Look, I am a job creator, not a job destroyer. It
the country in private sector job growth. But it is good for
private sector in the last four years. In my state we're leading
America to improve fuel efficiency.
We also ought to convert more fuel -- vehicles to
compress environment. natural gas. That's another way to improve the
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, based on your experience at
General Motors, where do you come down on this? This has been
thrown about, back and forth during this campaign from the very
beginning about jobs and CAFE standards.
MR. PEROT: Well, everybody's nibbling around the
edges. Let's go to the center of the bull's eye to the core
problem. And, believe me, everybody on the factory floor all
over this country knows it. You implement that NAFTA -- the
Mexican trade agreement -- where they pay people $1 an hour, have
no health care, no retirement, no pollution controls, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera, and you're going to hear a job -- sucking
sounds of jobs being pulled out of this country right at a time
when we need the tax base to pay the debt and pay down the
interest on the debt and get our house back in order. We have
got to proceed very carefully on that.
See, there's a lot I don't understand. I do
understand business. I do understand creating jobs. I do
understand how to make things work. And I've got a long history
of doing that. Now, if you want to go to the core problem that
faces everybody in manufacturing in this country, it's that
agreement that's about to be put into practice.
But here -- very simply -- everybody says it will
create jobs. Yes, it will create bubble jobs. Now, watch this.
Listen very carefully to this: One-time surge while we build
factories and ship machine tools and equipment down there. Then
year after year for decades they will have jobs. And I finally
thought I didn't understand it. I called all the experts and
they said, "Oh, it will be disruptive for 12 to 15 years." We
haven't got 12 days, folks. We cannot lose those jobs. They
were eventually saying Mexican jobs will eventually come to $7.50
an hour and ours will eventually go down to $7.50 an hour. It
makes you feel real good to hear that, right?
Let's think it through, here. Let's be careful.
I'm for free trade philosophically, but I have studied these
trade agreements until the world has gone flat, and we don't have
good trade agreements across the world. I hope we'll have a
chance to get into that tonight, because I can get right to the
center of the bull's eye and tell you why we're losing whole
industries in this country. Excuse me.
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MR. LEHRER: Just for the record, though, Mr. Perot,
I take it then for your answer you do not have a position on
whether or not enforcing the CAFE standards will cost jobs in the
auto industry.
MR. PEROT: oh, no. It will cost jobs. But that's
not -- let me say this: I'd rather -- if you gave me two bad
choices --
MR. LEHRER: Okay.
MR. PEROT: I'd rather have some jobs left here than
just see everything head south, see?
MR. LEHRER: so that means no -- (laughter) -- in
other words, you agree with President Bush, is that right?
MR. PEROT: No, I'm saying our principal need now is
to stabilize the tax base, which is the job base, and create a
growing, dynamic base. Now, please, folks, if you don't hear
anything else I say, remember where the -- millions of people at
work are our tax base. One quick point: If you confiscate the
Forbes 400 wealth -- take it off, you cannot balance the budget
this year. Kind of gets your head straight about where the taxes
year in and year out have got to come from. Millions and
millions of people at work.
MR. LEHRER: I wanted -- yes, sir.
PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I'm caught in the middle of
NAFTA. Ross says, with great conviction, he opposes the North
American Free Trade Agreement. I am for the North American Free
Trade Agreement. My problem with Governor Clinton, once again,
is that one time he's going to make up his mind -- he will see
some merit in it, but then he sees a lot of things wrong with it.
And then the other day he says he's for it. However, then we've
got to pass other legislation. When you're President of the
United States, you cannot have this pattern of saying "well, I'm
for it, but I'm on the other side of it." And it's true on this
and it's true on CAFE.
Look, if Ross were right and we get a free trade
agreement with Mexico, why wouldn't they have gone down there
now? You have a differential in wages right now. I just have an
honest philosophical difference. I think free trade is going to
expand our job opportunity. I think it is exports that have
saved us when we're in a global slowdown -- a connected, global
slowdown -- a recession in some countries. And it's free trade,
fair trade that needs to be our hallmark and we need more free
trade agreements, not fewer.
MR. LEHRER: Governor, a quick answer on trade, and
I want to go on to something else.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I'd like to respond to that. You
know, Mr. Bush was very grateful when I was among the Democrats
who said he ought to have the authority to negotiate an agreement
with Mexico. Neither I nor anybody else, as far as I know,
agreed to give him our proxy to say that whatever he did was fine
for the workers of this country and for the interests of this
country.
I am the one who is in the middle on this. Mr.
Perot says it's a bad deal. Mr. Bush says it's a hunky-dory
deal. I say, on balance, it does more good than harm if we could
get some protection for the environment SO that the Mexicans have
to follow their own environmental standards, their own labor law
standards; and if we have a genuine commitment to reeducate and
retrain the American workers who lose their jobs and reinvest in
this economy.
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I have a realistic approach to trade. I want more
trade. And I know there are some good things in that agreement,
but it can sure be made better.
Let me just point out -- just today in The Los
Angeles Times, Clyde Prestowitz, who was one of President
Reagan's leading trade advisors, and a lifelong conservative
Republican, endorsed my candidacy because he knows that I'll have
a free and fair trade policy, a hard-headed realistic policy, and
not get caught up in rubber-stamping everything the Bush
administration did. If I wanted to do that, why would I run for
President, Jim? Anybody else can run the middle class down and
run the economy in a ditch; I want to change it. (Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT: I think he made my case. On the one
hand, it's a good deal, but on the other hand, I'd make it
better. You can't do that as President. You can't do it on the
war, where he says, well, I was with the minority, but I guess I
would have voted with the majority.
This is my point tonight: We're talking about two
weeks from now you've got to decide who is going to be President.
And there is this pattern that has plagued him in the primaries,
and now about trying to have it both ways on all these issues.
You can't do that. And if you make a mistake, say you made a
mistake and go on about your business, trying to serve the
American people.
Right now we heard it. Ross is against it. I am
for it. He says on the one hand I'm for it, and on the other
hand, I may be against it. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Governor --
GOVERNOR CLINTON: That's what's wrong with Mr.
Bush. His whole deal is, you've got to be for it or against it
and you can't make it better. I believe we can be better. I
think the American people are sick and tired of either-or
solutions, people being pushed in the corner, polarized to
extremes. I think they want somebody with common sense who can
do what's best for the American people. And I'd be happy to
discuss these other issues. But I can't believe he is accusing
me of getting on both sides.
He said trickle-down economics was voodoo economics.
Now, he's its biggest practitioner. (Laughter and applause.)
Let me just say --
THE PRESIDENT: I've always said trickle-down
government is bad.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I could run this string out a
long time, but remember this, Jim: Those 209 Americans last
Thursday night in Richmond told us they wanted us to stop talking
about each other and start talking about Americans and their
problems and their promises. And I think we ought to get back to
that. I'll be glad to answer any question you have, but this
election ought to be about the American people. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot?
MR. PEROT: Is there an equal time rule here
tonight?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.
MR. PEROT: or do you just keep lunging in at will?
I thought we were going to have equal time, but maybe I just have
to interrupt the other two. Is that the way it works this --
MR. LEHRER: No. Mr. Perot, you're doing fine. Go
ahead. Whatever you want to say, say it.
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MR. PEROT: Now that we've talked all around the
bull's eye.
problem about free trade, let's go again to the center of the
thought you wanted to respond to what we were talking about.
MR. LEHRER: Wait a minute. I was going to ask -- I
MR. PEROT: I do. I do. I just want to make --
these foreign lobbyists, this whole thing -- our country has sold
out to foreign lobbyists. We don't have free trade. Both
parties have foreign lobbyists on leave and key roles in their
campaigns. And if there's anything more unwise than that, I
don't know what it is. Every debate, I bring this up and nobody
addresses it.
I would like for them to look you in the eye and
tell you why they have people representing foreign countries
working on their campaigns. And, you know, you've seen the list,
I've seen the list. We won't go into the names. But no wonder
they -- if I had those people around me all day every day telling
me it was fair and free, I might believe it. But if I look at
the facts as a businessman, it's 50 tilted. The first thing you
ought to do is just say, guys, if you like these deals so well,
we'll give you the deal you gave us.
Now, Japanese couldn't unload the cars in this
country if they had the same restrictions we had, and on, and on,
and on, and on, and on. I suggest to you that the core problem
-- one country spent $400 million lobbying in 1988 -- our
country. And it goes on and on. And you look at a Who's Who in
these campaigns around the two candidates. They're foreign
lobbyists taking leaves. What do you think they're going to do
when the campaign's over? Go back to work at $30,000 a month
representing some other country. I don't believe that's in the
American people's interest.
I don't have a one of them, and I haven't taken a
penny of foreign money, and I never will. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, how do you respond to
that? Mr. Perot has made that charge several times -- the fact
that you have people working in your campaign who are paid
foreign lobbyists.
THE PRESIDENT: Most people that are lobbying are
lobbying the Congress. And I don't think there's anything wrong
with an honest person who happens to represent an interest of
another country for making his case. That's the American way.
And what you're assuming is that that makes the recipient of the
lobbying corrupt or the lobbyists themselves corrupt. I don't
agree with that.
But if I found somebody that had a conflict of
interest that would try to illegally do something as a foreign
registered lobby, the laws cover this. I don't know why -- I've
never understood quite why Mr. Perot was 50 upset about it,
because one of the guys he used to have working for him, I
believe, had foreign accounts. Could be wrong, but I think so.
MR. PEROT: Soon as I found it out, he went out the
door, too. (Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think you've got to look at
the integrity and the honor of the people that are being lobbied
and those that are lobbyists. The laws protect the American
taxpayer in this regard. If the laws are violated, so much --
but to suggest if somebody represents a foreign country on
anything that makes him corrupt, I don't -- or against the
taxpayer, I don't agree with it.
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MR. PEROT: One quick relevant specific. We're
getting ready to dismantle the airlines industry in our country,
and none of you know it. And I doubt, in all candor, if the
President knows it. But this deal that we're doing with BAC and
US Air and KLM and Northwest -- now, guess who is on the
President's campaign big time? A guy from Northwest. This deal
is terribly destructive to the U.S. airline industry. One of the
largest industries in the world is the travel and tourist
business. We won't be making airplanes in this country 10 years
from now if we let deals like this go through.
I can -- if the press has any interest tonight, I'll
detail it to you. I won't take 10 minutes tonight; all these
things take a few minutes. But that's happening as we sit here
today. We hammer-lock the American companies -- American
Airlines, Delta -- the last few great we have, because we're
trying to do this deal with these two European companies. And
never forget, they've got Airbus over there, and it's a
government-owned, privately-owned consortium across Europe.
They're dying to get the commercial airline business.
Japan is trying to get the commercial airline
business. I don't think there are any villains inside government
on this issue, but there sure are a lot of people who don't
understand business. And maybe you need somebody up there who
understands when you're getting your pocket picked. (Applause)
MR. LEHRER: Governor, I'm sorry, but that concludes
my time with --
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Boy, I had a great response to
that.
MR. LEHRER: All right. Go ahead, quickly.
(Laughter.) Just very briefly.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I think Ross is right, and that
we do need some more restrictions on lobbyists. we ought to make
them disclose to people they've given money to when they're
testifying before congressional committees. We ought to close
the lawyers' loophole; they ought to have to disclose when
they're really lobbying. And we ought to limit -- we ought to
have a much longer period of time, about five years between the
time when people can leave Executive Branch offices and then go
out and start lobbying for foreign interest. I agree with that.
we've wrecked the airline industry already because
there's all these leveraged buyouts and all these terrible things
that have happened to the airline industry. We're going to have
a hard time rebuilding it. But the real thing we've got to have
is a competitive economic strategy. Look what's happening to
McDonnell Douglas. Even Boeing is losing market share because we
let the Europeans spend $25 billion to $40 billion on Airous
without an appropriate competitive response.
What I want America to do is to trade more, but to
compete and win by investing in competitive ways. And we're in
real trouble on that. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: I'm going to be in real trouble if I
don't bring out -- it's about time --
THE PRESIDENT: I promise it's less than 10 seconds.
MR. LEHRER: Okay.
THE PRESIDENT: I heard Governor Clinton
congratulate us on one thing. First time he said something
pleasant about this administration. Productivity in this country
is up. It is way up. Productivity is up, and that's a good
thing. There are many other good ones, but I was glad he
acknowledged that.
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MR. PEROT: I've volunteered -- now, look, I'm just
kind of a, you know, third dog here. I was put on the ballot by
the people, not special interest; so I have to stand up for
myself. Now, Jim, let me net it out. On the second debate, I
offered, since both sides want the enterprise zones but can't get
together, I said I'll take a few days off and go to Washington
and hold hands with you and we'll get it done. I'll take a few
days off, hold hands with you and get this airline thing
straightened out, because that's important to this country.
That's kind of pathetic I have to do it, and
nobody's called me yet to come up, I might mention -- (laughter)
-- but if they do, if they do, it's easy to fix. If you all want
the enterprise zones, why don't we pass the dang thing and do it,
right?
MR. LEHRER: All right. Now we're going to bring in
three other journalists to ask questions. They are Susan Rook of
CNN, Gene Gibbons of Reuters, and Helen Thomas of United Press
International.
You thought you'd never get in here, didn't you?
THE PRESIDENT: Uh-oh. (Applause)
MR. LEHRER: Okay, we are going to continue on the
subject of leadership, and the first question goes to Governor
Clinton for a two-minute answer. It will be asked by Helen
Thomas.
Helen?
MS. THOMAS: Governor Clinton, your credibility has
come into question because of your different responses on the
Vietnam draft. If you had it to do over again, would you put on
the nation's uniform? And, if elected, could you, in good
conscience, send someone to war?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: If I had it to do over again, I
might answer the questions a little better. You know, I had been
in public life a long time and no one had ever questioned my
role, and SO I was asked a lot of questions about things that
happened a long time ago. I don't think I answered them as well
as I could have.
Going back 23 years, I don't know, Helen. I was
opposed to the war. I couldn't help that. I felt very strongly
about it, and I didn't want to go at the time. It's easy to say
in retrospect I would have done something differently.
President Lincoln opposed the war, and there were
people who said maybe he shouldn't be President. But I think he
made us a pretty good President in wartime. We've got a lot of
other Presidents who didn't wear their country's uniform and had
to order our young soldiers into battle, including President
Wilson and President Roosevelt. so the answer is, I could do
that. I wouldn't relish doing it, but I wouldn't shrink from it.
I think that the President has to be prepared to use
the power of the nation when our vital interests are threatened,
when our treaty commitments are at stake, when we know that
something has to be done that is in the national interest. And
that is a part of being President.
Could I do it? Yes, I could.
MR. LEHRER: A reminder now, we're back on the st.
Louis rules, which means that the Governor had his answer, and
then each of you will have one minute to respond.
Mr. President?
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THE PRESIDENT: well, I've expressed my heartfelt
difference with Governor Clinton on organizing demonstrations
while in a foreign land against your country when young ghetto
kids have been drafted and are dying.
My argument with him on -- the question was about
the draft -- is that there is this same pattern. In New
Hampshire, Senator Kerry said you ought to level, you ought to
tell the truth about it. And April 17th, he said he's bring out
all the records on the draft. They have not been forthcoming.
He got a deferment or he didn't. He got a notice or he didn't.
And I think it's this pattern that troubles me more than the
draft. A lot of decent, honorable people felt as he did on the
draft. But it is this pattern.
And again, you might be able to make amendments all
the time, Governor, but you've got to -- as President, you can't
be on all these different sides, and you can't have this pattern
of saying, well, I did this or I didn't. Then the facts come out
and you change it. That's my big difference with him on the
draft. It wasn't failing to serve.
MR. LEHRER: Your minute is up, sir.
Mr. Perot, one minute.
MR. PEROT: I've spent my whole adult life very
close to the military; feel very strongly about the people who go
into battle for our country; appreciate their idealism, their
sacrifices; appreciate the sacrifices their families make.
That's been displayed again and again in a very tangible way.
I look on this as history. I don't look on it,
personally, as relevant. And I consider it really a waste of
time tonight when you consider the issues that face our country
right now.
MR. LEHRER: All right. The next question goes to
President Bush and Gene Gibbons will ask it. (Applause.)
MR. GIBBONS: Mr. President, you keep saying that
you made a mistake in agreeing to a tax increase to get the 1990
budget deal with Congress. But if you hadn't gotten that deal
you would have either had to get repeal of the Gramm-Rudman
deficit control act or cut defense spending drastically at a time
when the country was building up for the Gulf War, and decimate
domestic discretionary spending, including such things as air
traffic control. If you had it to do all over again, sir, which
of those alternatives would you choose?
THE PRESIDENT: I wouldn't have taken any of the
alternatives. I believe I made a mistake. I did it for the very
reasons you say. There was one good thing that came out of that
budget agreement and that is we put a cap on discretionary
spending.
One-third of the President's budget is at the
President's discretion -- or really, the Congress, since they
appropriate every dime and tell the President how to spend every
dime. We've put a cap on the growth of all that spending. And
that's good. And that's helped. But I was wrong because I
thought the tax compromise, going along with one Democratic tax
increase, would help the economy. I see no evidence that it has
done it.
so what would I have done, what should I have done?
I should have held out for a better deal that would have
protected the taxpayer and not ended up doing what we had to do
-- or what I thought at the time would help.
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so I made a mistake. And I -- you know, the
difference, I think, is that I knew at the time I was going to
take a lot of political flack. I knew we'd have somebody out
there yelling, "Read my lips." And I did it because I thought it
was right. And I made a mistake. That's quite different than
taking a position where you know what's best for you. That
wasn't best for me, and I knew it in the very beginning. I
thought it would be better for the country than it was.
so there we are. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, one minute.
MR. PEROT: The 101 in leadership is be accountable
for what you do. Let's go back to the tax and budget summit
briefly. Nobody ever told the American people that we increase
spending $1.83 for every dollar of taxes raised. That's
absolutely unconscionable. Both parties carry a huge blame for
that on their shoulders.
This was not a way to pay on the deficit. This was
a trick on the American people. That's not leadership. Let's go
back in terms of accepting responsibilities for your actions. To
create saddam Hussein over a 10-year period and using billions of
dollars of U.S. taxpayer money, step up to the plate and say, it
was a mistake.
To create Noriega, using taxpayer money, step up to
the plate and say it was a mistake. If you can't get your act
together to pick him up one day when a Panamanian major has
kidnapped him -- a special forces team is 400 yards away and it's
a stroll across the park to get him -- and if you can't get your
act together, at least pick up the Panamanian major who they then
killed -- step up to the plate and admit it was a mistake.
That's leadership, folks.
Now, leaders will always make mistakes. We've
created -- and I'm not aiming at any one person here. I'm aiming
at our government. Nobody takes responsibility for anything.
We've got to change that.
MR. LEHRER: I'll take responsibility for saying.
your time is up.
MR. PEROT: I'm watching the light.
MR. LEHRER: All right.
Governor Clinton, one minute, sir.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: The mistake that was made was
making the "read my lips" promise in the first place just to get
elected, knowing what the size of the deficit was. (Applause.)
Knowing what the size of the deficit was, knowing there was no
plan to control health care costs, and knowing that we did not
have a strategy to get real economic growth back into this
economy. The choices were not good then.
I think at the time the mistake that was made was
signing off on the deal late on saturday night in the middle of
the night -- that's just what the President did when he vetoed
the Family Leave Act. I think what he should have done is go
before the American people on the front end and said "Listen, I
made a commitment and it was wrong. I made a mistake because I
couldn't have foreseen these circumstances and this is the best
deal we can work out at the time.
He said it was in the public interest at the time,
and most everybody who was involved in it I guess thought it was.
The real mistake was the "read my lips" promise in the first
place. You just can't promise something like that just to get
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elected if you know there's a good chance that circumstances may
overtake you.
MR. LEHRER: All right, Mr. Perot, the question is
for you. You have a two minute answer, and it will be asked by
Susan Rook.
MS. ROOK: Mr. Perot, you've talked about going to
Washington to do what the people who run this country want you to
do. But it is the President's duty to lead, and often lead
alone. How can you lead if you are forever seeking consensus
before you act?
MR. PEROT: Let's talk about two different subjects.
In order to lead, you first have to use the White House as a
bully pulpit and lead. Then you have to develop consensus, or
you can't get anything done. And that's where we are now; we
can't get anything done. How do you get anything done? when
you've got all of these political action committees, all of these
thousands of registered lobbyists -- 40,000 registered lobbyists,
23,000 special interest groups, and the list goes on and on and
on, and the average citizen out here just working hard every day.
You've got to go to the people. I just love the fact that
everybody, particularly in the media, goes bonkers over the town
hall. I guess it's because you will lose your right to tell them
what to think. (Laughter.) The point is, they'll get to decide
what to think. (Applause.)
PRESIDENT BUSH: Hey -- you've got something there.
MR. PEROT: What you've been -- I love the fact that
people will listen to a guy with a bad accent and a poor
presentation manner talking about flip charts for 30 minutes,
because the want the details. See, all the folks up there at the
top said people -- "the attention span of the American people is
no more than five minutes. They won't watch it." They're
thirsty for it.
You want to have a new program in this country -- if
you get grassroots America excited about it and if they tap
Congress on the shoulder and say "Do it, Charlie," it will
happen. And that's a whole lot different from these fellows .
running up and down the halls whispering in their ears now and
promising campaign funds for the next election if they do it.
Now, I think that's going back to where we started.
That's having a government from the people. I think that's the
essence of leadership, rather than cutting deals in dark rooms in
Washington. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Well, I believe in the town hall
meetings. They started with my campaign in New Hampshire. And I
think Ross Perot has done a good job in having them. And I, as
you know, pushed for the debate to include 209 American citizens
who were part of it in Richmond a few days ago. I've done a lot
of them and I'll continue to do them as President.
But I'd also like to point out that I haven't been
part of what we're criticizing in Washington tonight. of the
three of us, I have balanced a government budget 12 times. I
have offered and passed campaign finance reform. offered, pushed
for, and passed in public referendum lobbyist restrictions. Done
the kinds of things you have to do to get legislators together,
not only to establish consensus, but to challenge them to change.
And in 12 years as Governor, I guess I've taken on every interest
group there was in my state at one time or another to fight for
change. It can be done. That's why I've tried to be so specific
in this campaign to have a mandate, if elected, so that Congress
will know what the American people have voted for. (Applause.)
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MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
PRESIDENT BUSH: I would. like the record to show the
panelists that Ross Perot took the first shot at the press. MY
favorite bumper sticker, though, is "Annoy the Media. Reelect
President Bush." (Laughter and applause.) sorry, Helen. I'm
going to pay for this later on.
Look, you have to build a consensus, but in some
things -- Ross mentioned Saddam Hussein. Yes, we tried. And,
yes, we failed to bring him into the family of nations. He had
the fourth largest army. But then when he moved against Kuwait I
said, this will not stand. And it's hard to build a consensus.
We went to the U.N. We made historic resolutions up there. The
whole world was united. our Congress was dragging its feet.
Governor Clinton said "well, I might have been with the minority.
Let sanctions work. But I guess I would have voted with the
majority."
A President can't do that. Sometimes he has to act.
And in this case, I'm glad we did, because if we'd have let
sanctions work and had tried to build a consensus on that, Saddam
Hussein today would be in saudi Arabia controlling the world's
oil supply, and he would be there maybe with a nuclear weapon.
We busted the fourth largest army and we did it through
leadership.
MR. LEHRER: All right, we're going to go onto
another subject now, and the subject is priorities. And the
first question goes to you, President Bush, and Susan will ask
it.
MS. ROOK: President Bush, gentlemen, I acknowledge
that all of you have women and ethnic minorities working for you
and working with you. But when we look at the circle of the key
people closest to you, your inner circle of advisors, we see
white men only. Why, and when will that change?
PRESIDENT BUSH: You don't see Margaret Tutwiler
sitting in there with me today?
MS. ROOK: The key people, President Bush.
PRESIDENT BUSH: What?
MS. ROOK: The key people, the people beyond the
glass ceiling.
PRESIDENT BUSH: I happen to think she's a key
person. I think our Cabinet members are key people. I think the
woman that works with me, Rose Zamaria is about as tough as a --
(applause) -- up there and makes some discipline and protects the
taxpayer. Look at our Cabinet. You talk about somebody strong,
look at Carla Hills. Look at Lynn Martin, who's fighting against
this glass ceiling and doing a first class job on it. Look at
our Surgeon General, Dr. Novello. You can look all around and
you'll see first-class, strong women.
Jim Baker's a man. Yes, I plead guilty to that.
(Laughter.) But look around -- look who's around with him there.
I mean, this is a little defensive on your part, Susan, to be
honest with you. We've got a very good record appointing women
to high positions and positions of trust. And I'm not defensive
at all about it.
what we've got to do is keep working, as the Labor
Department is doing a first-class job on, to break down
discrimination, to break down the glass ceiling. And I am not
apologetic at all about our record with women. We've got -- I
think -- you think about women in government. I think about
women in business. Why not try to help them with my small
business program to build some incentives into the system.
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I think we're making progress here. You've got a
lot of women running for office. As I said the other night, I
hope a lot of them lose because they're liberal Democrats and we
don't need more of them in the Senate or more of them in the
House. But nevertheless, they're out there. And we've got some
very good Republican women running. so we're making dramatic
progress.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, one minute.
MR. PEROT: Well, I've come from the computer
business and everybody knows women are more talented than the
men. So we have a long history of having a lot of talented
women. One of our first officers was a woman -- a chief
financial officer. she was a director. And it was so far back,
it was considered so odd. And even though we were a tiny, little
company at the time, it made all the national magazines.
But in terms of being influenced by women and being
a minority, there they are right out there -- my wife and my four
beautiful daughters. And I just have one son. so he and I are
surrounded by women telling us what to do all the time.
(Laughter.)
For the rest of my minute, I want to make a very
brief comment here in terms of Saddam Hussein. We told him that
we wouldn't get involved with this border dispute, and we've
never revealed those papers that were given to Ambassador Glaspie
on July 25. I suggest, in the sense of taking responsibility for
the actions, we lay those papers on the table. They're not
secrets to the nuclear bomb.
secondly, we got upset when he took the whole thing,
but to the ordinary American out there who doesn't know where the
oil fields are in Kuwait, they're near the border. We told him
he could take the northern part of Kuwait, and when he took the
whole thing we went nuts. And if we didn't tell him that, why
won't we even let the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the
senate Intelligence Committee see the written instructions for
Ambassador Glaspie?
PRESIDENT BUSH: I'd like to reply on that. That
gets to the national honor. We did not say to saddam Hussein,
Ross, you can take the northern part of Kuwait. That is
absolutely absurd. Glaspie has testified --
MR. PEROT: Where are the papers?
PRESIDENT BUSH: -- and Glaspie's papers have been
presented to the United States Senate. (Applause.) So please --
MR. PEROT: If you have time, go through NEXIS and
LEXIS, pull all the old news articles. Look at what Ambassador
Glaspie said all through the fall and what have you, and then
look at what she and Kelley and all the others in State said at
the end when they were trying to clean it up. And talk to any
head of any of those key committees in the senate. They will not
let them see the written instructions given to Ambassador
Glaspie. And I suggest that in a free society owned by the
people, the American people ought to know what we told Ambassador
Glaspie to tell saddam Hussein. Because we spent a lot of money
and risked lives and lost lives in that effort, and did not
accomplish most of our objectives. We got Kuwait back to the
Emir, but he still got his nuclear, his chemical, his
beucariological, and he's still over there, right? I'd like to
see those written instructions. Sorry. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, when you -- just make
sure that everybody knows what's going on here. when you
responded directly to Mr. Perot then --
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PRESIDENT BUSH: Yes.
MR. LEHRER: -- you violated the rule -- your rules.
NOW, I'm willing --
PRESIDENT BUSH: I apologize. when I make a mistake
I say -- (laughter.)
MR. LEHRER: No, no, no. I just want to make sure
that everybody understands. If you all want to change the rules,
we can do it.
PRESIDENT BUSH: No, I don't. I apologize for it.
But that one got right to the national honor.
MR. LEHRER: All right. Okay.
PRESIDENT BUSH: And I'm sorry.
MR. LEHRER: Okay. But, Governor Clinton, you have
a minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Susan, I don't agree that there
are no women and minorities in important positions in my
campaign. There are many. But I think even more relevant is my
record at home. For most of my time as Governor, a woman was my
chief of staff, an African American was my chief cabinet officer,
an Africa American was my chief economic development officer.
It was interesting today -- there was a story either
today or yesterday in The Washington Post about my economic
programs and my chief budget officer and my chief economic
officer were both African Americans, even though The Post didn't
mention that, which I think is a sign of progress. The National
Women's Political Caucus gave me an award -- one of their good
guy awards -- for my involvement of women in high levels of
government. And I've appointed more minorities to positions of
high levels in government than all the governors in the history
of my state combined before me.
so that's what I'll do as President. I don't think
we've got a person to waste. And I think I owe the American
people a White House staff, a Cabinet, and appointments that look
like America, but that meet high standards of excellence, and
that's what I'll do. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: All right. The next question goes to
you, Mr. Perot for two minutes. It's a two-minute question, and
Helen will ask it.
Helen.
MS. THOMAS: Mr. Perot, what proof do you have that
Saddam Hussein was told that he could have -- do you have any
actual proof or are you asking for the papers? And also, I
really came in with another question. What is this penchant you
have to investigate everyone? Are those accusations correct --
investigating your staff, investigating the leaders of the
grassroots movement, investigating associates of your family?
MR. PEROT: No, they're not correct. And if you
look at my life for the first -- until I got involved in this
effort, I was one person. And then after the Republican dirty
tricks group got through with me, I'm another person, which I
consider an absolutely sick operation. And all of you in the
press know exactly what I'm talking about.
They investigated every single one of my children,
they investigated my wife, they interviewed all my children's
friends from childhood on. They went to extraordinary, sick
lengths. And I just found it amusing that they would take two or
three cases where I was involved in lawsuits and would engage an
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investigator -- the lawyers would engage an investigator, which
is common. And the only difference between me and any other
businessman that has the major businesses I have is I haven't had
that many lawsuits. so that's just another one of those little
fruit-loopy things they make up to try to instead of facing
issues, to try to redefine a person that's running against them.
This goes on night and day.
I will do everything I can -- and I got up there to
make dirty tricks a thing of the past -- one of the two groups
has raised it to an artform. It's a sick artform. Now, let's go
back to Saddam Hussein. We gave Ambassador Glaspie written
instructions. That's a fact. We've never let the Congress and
these foreign relations -- Senate Intelligence Committee see
them. That's a fact.
Ambassador Glaspie did a lot of talking, right after
July 25th, and that's a fact and it saw the newspapers. And you
pool all of at once and read it -- and I did -- and it's pretty
clear what she and Kelly and the other key guys around that thing
thought they were doing.
Then, at the end of the war when they had to go
testify about it, their stories are a total disconnect from what
they said in August, September and October. so I say, this is
very simple: Saddam Hussein released a tape, as you know,
claiming it was a transcript of their meeting, whereas she said
we will not become involved in your border dispute; as a matter
of fact, you can take the northern part of the country.
We later said, no, that's not true. I said, well,
this is simple. what were her written instructions? We guard
those like the secrets to the atomic bomb, literally. Now, I
say: Whose country is this? This is ours. Who will get hurt if
we lay those papers on the table? The worst thing is, again,
it's a mistake. Nobody did any of this with evil intent. I just
object to the fact that we cover up and hide things -- whether
it's Iran-Contra, Iraqgate, or you name it. It's a steady
stream.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, you have one minute.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Let's take Mr. Bush for the
moment at his word. I mean, he's right, we don't have any
evidence, at least, that our government did tell Saddam Hussein
he could have that part of Kuwait. And let's give him the credit
he deserves for organizing Operation Desert storm and Desert
Shield. It was a remarkable event.
But let's look at where I think the real mistake was
made. In 1988, when the war between Iraq and Iran ended, we knew
Saddam Hussein was a tyrant. We had dealt with him because he
was against Iran. The enemy of my enemy maybe is my friend.
All right, the war is over. We know he's dropping
mustard gas on his own people. We know he's threatened to
incinerate half of Israel. Several government departments --
several -- had information that he was converting our aid for
military purposes and trying to develop weapons of mass
destruction. But in late '89, the President signed a secret
policy saying we were going to continue to try to improve
relations with him, and we sent him some sort of communication on
the eve of his invasion of Kuwait that we still wanted better
relations.
so I think what was wrong -- I give credit where
credit is due, but the responsibility was in coddling Saddam
Hussein when there was no reason to do it and when people at high
levels in our government knew he was trying to do things that
were outrageous.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, you have a minute.
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THE PRESIDENT: It's awful easy when you're dealing
with 90-90 hindsight. We did try to bring Saddam Hussein into
the family of nations. He did have the fourth largest army. All
our Arab allies out there thought we ought to do just exactly
that. And when he crossed the line, I stood up and looked into
the camera and I said, this aggression will not stand. And we
formed a historic coalition and we brought him down. And we
destroyed the fourth largest army, and the battlefield was
searched, and there wasn't one single iota of evidence that any
U.S. weapons were on that battlefield. And the nuclear
capability has been searched by the United Nations, and there
hasn't been one single scintilla of evidence that there's any
U.S. technology involved in it.
And what you're seeing on all this Iraqgate is a
bunch of people who were wrong on the war trying to cover their
necks here and try to do a little revisionism. And I cannot let
that stand, because it isn't true. Yes, we had grain credits for
Iraq, and there isn't any evidence that those grain credits were
diverted into weaponry; none. None whatsoever. And so I just
have to say it's fine. You can't say there, Governor Clinton,
and say, well, I think I'd have been -- I'd have supported the
minority -- let sanctions work or wish that it would go away --
but I would have voted with the majority. Come on, that's not
leadership.
MR. LEHRER: The next question goes to Governor
Clinton, and Gene Gibbons will ask it.
Gene?
MR. GIBBONS: Governor, an important aspect of
leadership is, of course, anticipating problems. During the 1988
campaign, there was little or no mention of the savings and loan
crisis that has cost the American people billions and billions of
dollars. Now there are rumblings that a commercial bank crisis
is on the horizon. Is there such a problem, sir? If so, how bad
is it and what will it cost to clean it up?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: Gene, there is a problem in the
sense that there are some problem banks. And on December 19th,
new regulations will go into effect which will, in effect, give
the government the responsibility to close some banks that are
not technically insolvent, but that are plainly in trouble.
On the other hand, I don't think that we have any
reason to believe that the dimensions of this crisis are anywhere
near as great as the savings and loan crisis. The mistake that
both parties made in Washington with the $ & L business was
deregulating them without proper capital requirements, proper
oversight and regulation, proper training of the executives, many
people predicted what happened, and it was a disaster.
The banking system in this country is fundamentally
sound with some weak banks. I think that our goal ought to be,
first of all, not to politicize it, not to frighten people;
secondly, to say that we have to enforce the law in two ways. We
don't want to overreact as the federal regulators have, in my
judgment, on good banks so that they've created credit crunches
that have made our recession worse in the last couple of years,
but we do want to act prudently with the banks that are in
trouble.
We also want to say that, insofar as is humanly
possible, the banking industry itself should pay for the cost of
any bank failures, the taxpayers should not. And that will be my
policy. And I believe we have a good, balanced approach, we can
get the good banks loaning money again in the credit crunch, have
proper regulation on the ones that are in trouble, and not
overreact. It is a serious problem, but I don't see it as the
kind of terrible, terrible problem that the S & L problem was.
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MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't believe it would be
appropriate for a president to suggest that the banking system is
not sound; it is sound. There are some problem banks out there.
But what we need is financial reform. We need some
real financial reform, banking reform legislation. And I have
proposed that, and when I am reelected I believe one of the first
things ought to be to press a new Congress, not beholden to the
old ways, to pass financial reform legislation that modernizes
the banking system, doesn't put a lot of inhibitions on it, and
protects the depositors through keeping the FDIC sound. But I
think that -- I just was watching some of the proceedings of the
American Bankers Association, and I think the general feeling is,
most of the banks are sound; certainly there's no comparison here
between what happened to the S & LS and where the banks stand
right now, in my view.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, one minute.
MR. PEROT: well, nobody's gotten into the real
issue yet on the savings and loan. Again, nobody's got a
business background, I guess. The whole problem came up in 1984.
The President of the United states was told officially it was a
$20-billion problem.
These crooks -- now, Willie Sutton would have gone
to own a savings and loan rather than rob banks, because -- he
robbed banks because that's where the money is; owning a savings
and loan is where the money was.
Now, in 1984 they were told -- I believe the Vice
President was in charge of deregulation -- nobody touched that
tar baby until the day after election in 1988, because they were
flooding both parties with crooked PAC money. And it was, in
many cases, stolen PAC money. Now, you and I never got a ride on
a lot of these yachts and fancy things it bought, but you and I
are paying for it. And they buried it until right after the
election.
Now, if you believe The Washington Post and you
believe this extensive study that's been done -- and I'm reading
it -- right after election day this year, they're going to hit us
with 100 banks -- it'll be a $100-billion problem. NOW, if
that's true, just tell me now. I'm grown up. I can deal with
it. I'll pay my share. But just tell me now. Don't bury it
until after the election twice. I say that to both political
parties. The people deserve that since we have to pick up the
tab. You've got the PAC money, we'll pay the tab. Just tell us.
MR. LEHRER: All right. Mr. Perot, the next
question -- we're going into a new round here on a category just
called "differences." And the question goes to you, Mr. Perot,
and Gene will ask it.
Gene?
MR. GIBBONS: Mr. Perot, aside from the deficit,
what government policy or policies do you really want to do
something about? what really sticks in your craw about
conditions in this country -- beside the deficit -- that you
would want to fix as president?
MR. PEROT: The debt and the deficit. well, if you
watched my television show the other night, you saw it. And if
you watch it Thursday, Friday, Saturday this week, you'll get
more. So, the shameless -- Mr. President -- but in a nutshell,
we've got to reform our government or we won't get anything done.
We have a government that doesn't work. All these specific
examples I'm giving tonight, if you had a business like that,
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they'd be leading you away and boarding up the doors. We have a
government that doesn't work. It's supposed to come from the
people, it comes at the people. The people need to take the
government back.
You've got to reform Congress. They've got to be
servants of the people again. You've got to reform the White
House. We've got to turn this thing around. And it's a long
list of specific items. And I've covered it again and again in
print and on television. But very specifically, the key thing is
to turn the government back to the people and take it away from
the special interests, and have people go to Washington to serve.
Who can give themselves a 23 percent pay raise
anywhere in the world except Congress? Who would have 1,200
airplanes worth $2 billion a year just to fly around in? I don't
have a free, reserved parking place at National Airport. Why
should my servants? I don't have an indoor gymnasium and an
indoor tennis court, an indoor every other thing they can think
of. I don't have a place where I can go make free TV to send to
my constituents to try to brainwash them to elect me the next
time. And I'm paying for all that for those guys.
I'm going to be running an ad pretty soon that shows
-- they promised us they were going to hold the line on spending,
a tax and budget -- and I'm going to show how much they've
increased this little stuff they do for themselves. And it is
silly Putty, folks, and the American people have had enough of
it.
Step one, if I get up there, we're going to clean
that up. You say: HOW can I get Congress to do that? I have
millions of people at my -- shoulder-to-shoulder with me, and we
will see it done warp speed, because it's wrong. We've turned
the country upside-down.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, you have one minute.
(Applause.)
Governor?
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I would just point out on the
point that Mr. Perot made, I agree that we need to cut spending
in Congress. I've called for a 25 percent reduction in
congressional staffs and expenditures. But the white House staff
increased its expenditures by considerably more than Congress has
in the last four years under the Bush administration, and
Congress has actually spent $1 billion less than President Bush
asked them to spend. Now, when you outspend Congress, you're
really swinging.
That, however, is not my only passion. The real
problem in this country is that most people are working hard and
falling further behind. My passion is to pass a jobs program to
get incomes up with an investment incentive program to grow jobs
in the private sector, to waste less public money and invest
more. To control health care costs and provide for affordable
health care for all Americans, and to make sure we've got the
best trained work force in the world. That is my passion.
We've got to get this country growing again, and
this economy strong again, or we can't bring down the deficit.
Economic growth is the key to the future of this country.
(Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, one minute.
THE PRESIDENT: On government reform?
MR. LEHRER: sir?
THE PRESIDENT: Government reform?
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MR. LEHRER: Yes. Well, to respond to the subject
that Mr. Perot mentioned.
THE PRESIDENT: How about this for a government
reform policy? Reduce the White House staff by a third after, or
at the same time the Congress does the same thing for their
staff. Term limits for members of the United States Congress.
Give the government back to the people. Let's do it that way.
The President has term limits. Let's limit some of these guys
sitting out here tonight. (Applause) Term limits, and then how
about a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution? Forty-
three states -- more than that -- states have it, I believe.
Let's try that.
And you want to do something about all this extra
spending that concerns Mr. Perot and me? Okay, how about a line-
item veto? Forty-three governors have that. And give it to the
President. And if the Congress isn't big enough to do it, let
the President have a shot at this excess spending.
A line-item veto. That means you can take a line
and cut out some of the pork out of a meaningful bill. Governor
Clinton keeps hitting me on vetoing legislation. Well, that's
the only protection the taxpayer has against some of these
reckless pork programs up there. And I'd rather be able to just
line it right out of there and get on about passing some good
stuff, but leave out the garbage. Line-item veto. There's a
good reform program for you. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: The next question gces to Governor
Clinton. You have two minutes, Governor, and Sue will ask it.
MS. ROOK: Governor Clinton, you said that you will
raise taxes on the rich people with incomes of $200,000 a year or
higher. A lot of people are saying that you will have to go
lower than that -- much lower. Will you make a pledge tonight
below which an income level that you will not go below? I am
looking for numbers, sir, not just a concept.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: My plan -- you can read my plan.
My plan says that we want to raise marginal incomes on family
incomes above $200,000 from 31 percent to 36 percent. That we
want to ask foreign corporations simply to pay the same
percentage of taxes on their income that American corporations
pay in America. That we want to use that money to provide over
$100 million in tax cuts for investment in new plant and
equipment for small business for new technologies and for middle
class tax relief.
Now, I can tell you this: I will not raise taxes on
the middle class to pay for these programs. If the money does
not come in there to pay for these programs, we will cut other
government spending or we will slow down the phase-in to the
programs. I am not going to raise taxes on the middle class to
pay for these programs.
NOW, furthermore, I am not going to tell you to read
my lips or anything, because I cannot foresee what emergencies
might develop in this country. And the President said, never,
never, never would he raise taxes. In New Jersey the other day,
Marlin Fitzwater, his spokesman, said, now, that's not a promise.
so I think even he has learned that you can't say read my lips,
because you can't know what emergencies might come up.
But I can tell you this: I'm not going to raise
taxes on middle class Americans to pay for the programs I've
recommended. Read my plan. And you know how you can trust me
about that? Because, you know, in the first debate, Mr. Bush
made some news. He had just said Jim Baker was going to be
Secretary of state, but in the first debate he said, no, now he's
going to be responsible for domestic economic policy.
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Well, I'll tell you: I'll make some news in the
third debate. The person responsible for domestic economic
policy in my administration will be Bill Clinton. I'm going to
make those decisions, and I won't raise taxes in the middle class
to pay for my program. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, you have one minute.
THE PRESIDENT: That's what worries me -- that he's
going to be responsible. (Applause.) And he would do for the
United States what he did for Arkansas. He would do for the
United states what he's done to Arkansas. we do not want to be
the lowest of the low. we are not a nation in decline.
(Applause.) My problem is, I heard what he said. He said I want
to take it from the rich -- raise $150 billion from the rich. To
get it, to get $150 billion in new taxes, you've got to go down
to the guy that's making $36,600. And if you want to pay for the
rest of his plan, all the other spending programs, you're going
to sock it to the working man.
so when you hear "tax the rich," Mr. and Mrs.
America, watch your wallet. Lock your wallet, because he's
coming right after you, just like Jimmy Carter did, and just like
you're going to get -- you're going to end up with interest rates
at 21 percent, and you're going to have inflation going through
the roof. Yes, we're having tough times. But we do not need to
go back to the failed policies of the past when you had a
Democratic president and a spendthrift Democratic Congress.
(Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: You permitted Mr. Bush to break
the rules, he said to defend the honor of the country. what
about the honor of my state? We rank first in the country in job
growth. We've got the lowest spending state and local in the
country and the second lowest tax burden. And the difference
between Arkansas and the United states is that we're going in the
right direction, and this country's going in the wrong direction.
And I had to defend the honor of my state. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: We've got a wash, according to my
calculations. we have a wash. And we'll go to Mr. Perot for one
minute. In other words, the violation of the rule. That's why I
meant.
MR. PEROT: I'm the only one that's untarnished at
this point.
MR. LEHRER: That's right, your clean. (Laughter.)
MR. PEROT: I'm sure I'll do it before it's over.
(Laughter.) The key thing here, see -- we all come up with
images. Images don't fix anything. You know, I'm starting to
understand it. You stay around this long enough, you think about
-- if you talk about it in Washington, you think you did it. If
you've been on television about it, you think you did it.
(Laughter.) what we need is people to stop talking and start
doing.
Now, our real problem here is they both have plans
that will not work. The wall Street Journal said your numbers
don't add up. And you can take it out on charts, you look at all
the studies that different groups have done -- you go out four,
five, six years, we're still drifting along with a huge deficit.
so let's come back to harsh reality. Everybody
said, gee, Perot, you're tough. I say, well, this is not as
tough as World war II; this is not as tough as the Revolution.
And it's fair-shared sacrifice to do the right thing for our
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country and for our children. And it will be fun if we all work
together to do it.
MR. LEHRER: This is the last question, and it goes
to President Bush for a two-minute answer. And it will be asked
by Helen.
MS. THOMAS: Mr. President, why have you dropped so
dramatically in the leadership polls, from the high 80s to the
40s? And you have said you will do anything you have to do to
get reelected. what can you do in two weeks to win reelection?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think the answer to why the
drop I think has been the economy in the doldrums. why I'll win
is I think I have the best plan of the three of us up here to do
something about it. Mine does not grow the government. It does
not invest -- have government invest. It says we need to do
better in terms of stimulating private business.
We've got a big philosophical difference here
tonight between one who thinks the government can do all these
things through tax and spend, and one who thinks it ought to go
the other way.
And so I believe the answer is I'm going to win it
because I'm getting into focus my Agenda for America's Renewal,
and also I think that Governor Clinton's had pretty much of a
free ride on looking specifically at the Arkansas record. He
keeps criticizing us, criticizing me -- I'm the incumbent. Fine.
But he's an incumbent. And we've got to look at all the facts.
They're almost at the bottom on every single category. we can't
do that to the American people.
And then, Helen, I really believe where people are
going to ask this question about trust. Because I do think
there's a pattern by Governor Clinton of saying one thing to
please one group and then trying to please another group. And I
think that pattern is a dangerous thing to suggest would work for
the Oval Office. It doesn't work that way when you're President.
Truman is right -- the buck stops there. And you have to make
decisions, even it's against your own interest.
And I've done that. It's against my political
interests to say, go ahead and go along with the tax increase.
But I did what I thought was right at the time. so I think
people are going to be looking for trust and experience.
And then I mentioned it the other night -- I think
if there's a crisis, people are going to say, well, George Bush
has taken us through some tough crises and we trust him to do
that. And so I'll make the appeal on a wide array of issues.
Also I've got a philosophical difference -- I've got to watch the
clock here -- I don't think we're a declining nation.
The whole world has had economic problems. We're
doing better than a lot of the countries in the world. And we're
going" lead the way out of this economic recession across this
world and economic slowdown here at home.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, do you have one minute.
THE PRESIDENT: That's why I think I'll win.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perct, you have -- sorry. Excuse
me, sir. Mr. Perot, you have one minute.
MR. PEROT: I'm the last one, right?
MR. LEHRER: No. Governor Clinton has a minute
after you. Then we have the closing statements.
MR. PEROT: One minute after you?
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MR. LEHRER: Right.
MR. PEROT: I'm totally focused on the fact that we
may have bank traders and nobody answered it. I'm totally
focused on that fact that we are still evading the issue of the
Glaspie papers. I'm totally focused on the fact that we still
could have enterprise zones, according to both parties, but we
don't. so I'm still focused on gridlock, I guess.
And I'm also focused on the fact that isn't it a
paradox that we have the highest productivity in our work force
in the industrialized world and at the same time have the largest
trade deficit, and at the same time rank behind nine other
nations in what we pay our most productive people in the world.
And we're losing whole industries overseas. Now, can't somebody
agree with me that the government is breaking business' legs with
these trade agreements? They're breaking business' legs in a
number of different ways. We have an adversarial relationship
that's destroying jobs and sending them overseas while we have
the finest workers in the world.
Keep in mind the factory worker has nothing to do
with anything except putting it together on the factory floor.
It's our obligation to make sure that we give him the finest
products in the world to put together and we don't break his legs
in the process.
MR. LEHRER: Governor Clinton, one minute
GOVERNOR CLINTON: I really can't believe Mr. Bush
is still trying to make trust an issue after "read my lips" and
"15 billion new jobs" and embracing what he called "voodoo
economics" and embracing an export enhancing program for farmers
he threatened to veto and going all around the country giving out
money and programs that he once opposed. But the main thing is
he still didn't get it, from what he said the other night to that
fine woman on our program -- the 209 people in Richmond. They
don't want us talking about each other; they want us to talk
about the problems of this country.
I don't think he'll be reelected because trickle-
down economics is a failure and he's offering more of it. And
what he's saying about my program is just not true. Look at the
Republicans that have endorsed me. High-tech executives in
Northern California. Look at the 24 generals and admirals,
retired, have endorsed me, including the Deputy Commander of
Desert Storm. Look at sarah Brady, Jim Brady's wife - President
Reagan's press secretary -- who endorsed me because he knuckled
under to the NRA and wouldn't fight for the Brady Bill. We've
got a broad based coalition that goes beyond party, because I am
going to change this country and make it better with the help of
the American people. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: All right. That was the final question
and answer, and we now go to the closing statements. Each
candidate will have up to two minutes. The order was determined
by a drawing. Governor Clinton, you are first.
Governor.
GOVERNOR CLINTON: First I'd like to thank the
commission and my opponents for participating in these debates
and making them possible.
I think the real winners of the debates were the
American people. I was especially moved in Richmond a few days
ago when 209 of our fellow citizens got to ask us questions.
They went a long way toward reclaiming this election for the
American people and taking their country back.
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I want to say, since this is the last time I'll be
on a platform with my opponents, that even though I disagree with
Mr. Perot on how fast we can reduce the deficit and how much we
can increase taxes on the middle class, I really respect what
he's done in this campaign to bring the issue of deficit
reduction to our attention. I'd like to say to Mr. Bush, even
though I've got profound differences with him, I do honor his
service to our country. I appreciate his efforts, and I wish him
well. I just believe it's time to change.
I offer a new approach. It's not trickle-down
economics. It's been tried for 12 years and it's failed. More
people are working harder for less, 100,000 people a month losing
their health insurance, unemployment going up, our economy
slowing down. We can do better.
And it's not tax and spend economics. It's invest
and grow, put our people first, control health care costs and
provide basic health care to all Americans, have an education
system second to none, and revitalize the private economy. That
is my commitment to you. It is a kind of change that can open up
a whole new world of opportunities to America as we enter the
last decade of this century and move toward the 21st century. I
want a country where people who work hard and play by the rules
are rewarded, not punished. I want a country where people are
coming together across the lines of race and region and income.
I know we can do better.
It won't take miracles and it won't happen-
overnight. But we can do much, much better if we have the
courage to change. Thank you very much. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: President Bush, your closing statement,
sir.
THE PRESIDENT: Three weeks from now -- two weeks
from tomorrow, America goes to the polls and you're going to have
to decide who you want to lead this country to economic recovery.
On jobs, that's the number one priority, and I believe my program
for stimulating investment, encouraging small business, brand-
new approach to education, strengthening the American family,
and, yes, creating more exports is the way to CO. I don't
believe in trickle-down government. I don't believe in larger
taxes and larger government spending.
On foreign affairs, some think it's irrelevant. I
believe it's not. we're living in an interconnected world. The
whole world is having economic difficulties. The U.S. is doing
better than a lot. But we've got to do even better. And if a
crisis comes up, I ask who has the judgment and the experience
and, yes, the character to make the right decision?
And lastly, the other night on character, Governor
Clinton said, "It's not the character of the President, but the
character of the presidency." I couldn't disagree more. Horace
Greeley said "The only thing that endures is character." And I
think it was Justice Black who talked about "Great nations like
great men, must keep their word." And so the question is, who
will safeguard this nation, who will safeguard our people and our
children?
I need your support. I ask for your vote. And may
God bless the United States of America. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Perot, your closing statement, sir.
MR. PEROT: To the millions of fine, decent people
who did the unthinkable and took their country back in their own
hands and put me on the ballot, let me pledge to you that tonight
is just the beginning. These next two weeks we will be going
full steam ahead to make sure that you get a voice and that you
get your country back.
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This Thursday night on ABC from 8:30 to 9:00 --
Friday night on NBC from 8:00 to 8:30 -- and Saturday night on
CBS from 8:00 to 8:30 -- we'll be down in the trenches, under the
hood, working on fixing the old car to get it back on the road.
(Laughter.)
Now, the question is: Can we win? Absolutely we
can win, because it's your country. The question really is who
do you want in the White House? It's that simple. Now, you've
got to stop letting these people tell you who to vote for.
You've got to stop letting these folks in the press tell you
you're throwing your vote away. You've got to start using your
own head. (Applause.)
Then the question is: can we govern? I love that
one. The "we" is you and me. You bet your hat we can govern,
because we will be in there together and we will figure out what
to do. And you won't tolerate gridlock. You won't tolerate
endless meandering and wandering around. And you won't tolerate
nonperformance. And believe me, anybody who knows me understands
I have a very low tolerance for nonperformance also. Together we
can get anything done.
The President mentioned that you need the right
person in a crisis. well, folks, we've got one. And that crisis
is a financial crisis. Pretty simply, who's the best qualified
person up here on the stage to create jobs? Make your decision
and vote on November 3rd. I suggest you might consider somebody
who's created jobs.
second, who's the best person to manage money? I
suggest you pick a person who's successfully managed money.
Who's the best person to get results and not talk? Look at the
record; make your decision.
And finally, who would you give your pension fund
and your savings account to to manage? And the last one, who
would you ask to be the trustee of your estate and take care of
your children if something happened to you?
Finally, to you students up there -- God bless you
-- I'm doing this for you. I want you to have the American
Dream. (Applause.) And to the American people -- to the
American people, I'm doing this because I love you. That's it.
Thank you very much. (Applause.)
MR. LEHRER: Thank you, Mr. Perot. Thank you, Mr.
President. Thank you, Governor Clinton -- for being with us
tonight and the previous debates. Thank you to the panel.
The only thing that is left to be said is, from
Michigan State University in East Lansing, I'm Jim Lehrer. Thank
you, and good night. (Applause.)
END
8:37 P.M. EDT
TOTAL P.16