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    "label": "First Debate: Carter Interview with Harry Reasoner",
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    "title": "First Debate: Carter Interview with Harry Reasoner",
    "description": "This file contains a transcript of Jimmy Carter's interview with Harry Reasoner on ABC News.",
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    "ocrText": "The original documents are located in Box 1, folder \"First Debate: Carter Interview with\nHarry Reasoner\" of the White House Special Files Unit Files at the Gerald R. Ford\nPresidential Library.\nCopyright Notice\nThe copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) governs the making of\nphotocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. Gerald Ford donated to the United\nStates of America his copyrights in all of his unpublished writings in National Archives collections.\nWorks prepared by U.S. Government employees as part of their official duties are in the public\ndomain. The copyrights to materials written by other individuals or organizations are presumed to\nremain with them. If you think any of the information displayed in the PDF is subject to a valid\ncopyright claim, please contact the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library.\nDigitized from Box 1 of the White House Special Files Unit Files at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library\n[July 1976]\nINTERVIEW WITH JIMMY CARTER\nBY\nHARRY REASONER\nABC NEWS\nPLAINS, GEORGIA\nMR. REASONER: Tonight we have the first of several\nreports on the Democratic ticket. We went to Plains, Georgia\nlast week for far-ranging conversations with Jimmy Carter\nand Senator Mondale with the aim of finding the flavor and\nmeasure of the candidates before all the speechifying of a\nfall campaign begins. We hope to do the same thing with the\nRepublican ticket immediately after the Kansas City Convention.\nJimmy Carter took me walking in a peanut field.\nHe knows a lot about peanuts, and it is a good place to begin\nto understand him. This is his land but his real business is\nin buying and processing peanuts from other farmers. He is\nused to picking up a peanut plant for visiting reporters and\nexplaining to them that they are vegetables, not nuts, really,\nand good to eat even in this fetal stage.\nGOVERNOR CARTER: You see there is a peanut just\nstarting out, where it came out. I guess there is one\nin the original form. See? That is the end of the little\nshort pair. It starts growing up and gets larger and larger\nand larger and larger and larger and that becomes a peanut.\nMR. REASONER: They are pretty good, in texture sort\nof like a sauteed garlic bud.\nA family cemetery was a few yards away, which brought\nup the question of Carter's evangelical Christianity and whether\na Baptist in the White House would be likely to demand Baptist\nstandards of behavior and morals from everybody else. We\nasked him.\nGOVERNOR CARTER: Moral standards, you know, are\nprimarily personal in nature. One of the teachings of Christ\nin which I believe is that we should not judge other people.\nPage 2\nOne of the tenets of the Christian faith is that\nall of us are sinners, none of us are better than others,\nthat though we are saved by God through grace, which means a\nfree gift, not because of the good works we do -- and Jesus\nhimself tought that we should not judge others. The expression\nhe used in the Sermon on the Mount was, why be concerned about\nthe mote or the speck that is in your brother's eye when you\nhave beams in your own eyes? So, we are very careful to\nremember what Christ said and not to judge other people.\nMR. REASONER: This family cemetery looks like it\nhas been here a while. Your people have been here how long\nnow, in this part of Georgia?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: The people who are buried here\nsettled on this land in 1833. This is my wife's grandfather's\ngrandfather. His name was Jerry Murray and when the Indians\nmoved out of this area in 1828, it took about five years to\nsurvey the territory and he was the first to originally settle\nit. I think my children will be the sixth generation on this\nland.\nMy own people came into Georgia, the Carter's did,\nthe famous James Carter, incidentally, in 1767, and both my\nfamily and Rosalyn's family, who were born in the late 1700s,\nare buried here in Plains and they have never moved very far\nso far.\nMR. REASONER: What does the land mean to you,\nGovernor?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: Well, when your family has lived\nin the same place on the same land for 200 years, and when all\nyour relatives and friends live in the same small community\nlike Plains, it is a very overwhelming factor in your consciousness.\nWhen I am out campaigning anywhere in the country or\nwhen I was Governor in Atlanta, I had a strong tie back here\nfrom Plains to me. I was a professional Naval officer, went\nto the Naval Academy and served in the Navy 11 years, and had\nmy roots not been here in Plains and very strong, I would\nprobably have stayed in the Navy and never come home and never\nhave gotten in politics. So, the land itself is very important\nto me.\nPage 3\nGERALD\nIn these fields around us here which are now worked\nby large machines and tractors, when I grew up until I was 17\nyears old and went to the Navy, we plowed these same fields\nwith mules, we pulled every peanut plant out of the ground\nand shook the dirt off it by hand. We pulled every ear of\ncorn by hand. We pulled the fodder first, we picked velvet\nbeans, we put poison on every cotton plant individually by hand,\nand that experience and that consciousness is very vivid and\nvery important to me.\nThere is stability there and an inclination to search\nout in your past things that ought not to be changed that I\nthink derive directly from the land.\nMR. REASONER: Most Americans now though won't die\nin the town or the county where their fathers died. Isn't\nthat a vanishing breed, these people that stick to the land?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: Well, perhaps so, looking at it from\na nationwide viewpoint. But, looking at it from the perspective\nof Plains, Georgia, there is still a lot of that vanishing\nbreed left.\nMR. REASONER: Tell me this: Did you ever figure\nout what to do about the gnats?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: Well, I learned about 30 years ago\nto ignore them. I don't even know that they are there.\nMR. REASONER: They are there. (Laughter)\nTomorrow night we will continue this report with\nhow Carter feels about some of the issues.\nGovernor, I don't imagine you are prepared to reveal\nyour respective Cabinet today but I would like to ask you a few\nquestions about what will happen if you are elected.\nYou have said you would reduce the size of the White\nHouse staff. President Ford said he would, too, but he has\nincreased it since he said that. Do you mean it?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: I do. It will be reduced if I am\nthere. We are not making any presumption that I am going to be\nelected although I think I have a good chance to be elected, but\nwe are making plans so that we can know ahead of time what\nresponsibilities would be on the shoulders of Cabinet members and\nthe responsibilities would be much greater than in the last\nfew Administrations.\nPage 4\nAnd we want to take out of the White House the palace\nguard aspect where all the functions of Government are run from\nwithin the White House itself. So the staff in the White\nHouse would be substantially reduced.\nMR. REASONER: What about the personal White House\nstaff? Would Hamilton Jordan be your Chief=of-Staff?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: I haven't decided yet and don't\nwant to talk about any particular persons until after the\nNovember election.\nMR. REASONER: You made a number of commitments and\npromises in your acceptance speech, and then, speaking to\nSam Donaldson (?) afterwards, he said, how long would it take,\nand you said you could do it in one term. Those are some of\nthe things that I think every President I can remember has\npromised and asked for and cannot get through Congress. What\nmakes you think you could?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: Well, I have had experience às\nGovernor in dealing with the legislature, and I am fairly\ncautious about what I have promised. I think I will have a\ncloser relationship with Congress after the electoral process\nthis year and if I am successful than has been seen in many,\nmany years.\nI think also there has been a great frustration built up\nand a disappointment build up in the minds of the American\npeople at the constant squabbling, arguing, divisiveness, a\nlack of cooperation between the White House and Congress. There\nis a strong move among the people which is mirrored in the\nattitude of Congress and myself toward better consultation,\nbetter relationships, better respect, more openness. So, I think\nthose things will force us to be cooperative.\nThe other thing is that there has been an absence of\nleadership in the White House for so long, in the latter part\nof Nixon's Administration, with the Watergate investigations,\nand then with Ford there has been practically no leadership\nexhibited from the White House. I think the Congress is looking\nfor strong leadership from there.\nPage 5\nWe, in analyzing issues, this year, are using key\nMembers of Congress and their staffs whom they recommend to\nwork with us in deciding what ought to be done with basic\ntax reform, welfare reform, agricultural policies, transportation,\nenergy and so forth. So I think there will be a good knowledge\nof one another if I am successful, and the other thing is I\nconsider my word of honor at stake.\nMR. REASONER: One of the charges you have faced a\ncouple of times during the campaign is the charge that you\nhave different faces for different audiences. I am thinking\nof your remarks about tax reform in your acceptance speech, and\nthen last week your visit with businessmen in New York City.\nSome people interpreted what you said in New York as a backing\naway from your populous promises in your speech. How do you\nreconcile that, sir?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: There is no incompatibility there at\nall. I am going to have the first year devoted to a complete\nrevision of the income tax structure to eliminate loopholes\nand special privileges that have been enjoyed by the rich and\nthe powerful entities in our society.\nI let it be known to the businessmen, for instance,\nthat I was going to do this. In the past a tax reform quite\noften has resulted in a cheating of the average American family\nbecause the reforms are shaped by intense pressure from special\ninterest groups and the general public is not aware of what is\ngoing on.\nI am going to be responsible as President for any\ncomprehensive major tax reform and for acquainting the American\npeople with the issues that are drawn. And if I can get the\nsupport from the folks back home with the natural inclination\nof many Congressmen, I think we can be successful.\nMR. REASONER: Would as drastic a measure as a\nrevolutionary measure of taking home mortgage interest off the\ndeductible list -- would that be included in your program?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: Well, we now have about $10 billion\nin tax credits or incentives for the ownership of homes. I would\nmaintain that incentive toward home ownership. I think, if\nanything, perhaps it needs to be expanded a little bit. But I\nwould reserve the right to modify the mechanism used to give\nthat credit.\nPage 6\nAt the present time, over 50 percent of that credit\ngoes to less than 25 percent of the richer home owners. Those\nowning a very extensive home get a much greater credit. Those\nwho are in higher income tax brackets get a much greater credit\nfor home ownership. And if there is any change made -- and I\nthink there will be some changes -- I would shift the tax credits\nor incentives for home ownership to the low and middle income\nfamilies and to those who own one home. That is the way the\nreform should be done and that is what I will do.\nMR. REASONER: I have a couple more questions. One\nrelates to the fact that you in effect won the nomination very\nearly, you didn't have to make any commitments on the Vice\nPresidency. Who do you owe when you take office, if you take\noffice?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: I have never made a private promise\nor commitment to any person, any special interest group or anyone.\nI believe I will be successful in going all the way through\nthe November election with only one obligation, and that is\ndirectly to the American people.\nI get a lot of advice and counsel from special interest\ngroups, nurses, school teachers, farmers, laborers, and this\nis legitimate, and I feel obligated to those who give me support,\nbut I will equally represent those who have not supported me\nin the general election. I believe I am strong enough politically,\npossibly because of my independent attitude in this respect not\nto be even tempted to depend on powerful special interest groups\nto put me in office. And I want to do that. I have promised,\nand I don't intend to break my promise, to let any commitments\nor promises that I make on future legislation or future action\nbe known publicly. And I believe that I don't have to even be\ntempted to get elected.\nMR. REASONER: Tomorrow we will hear from Carter on\nforeign policy. That will be different if he is elected, he\nsays.\nNow, continuing the report on Jimmy Carter and the\nDemocratic ticket, we turn tonight to foreign affairs. In\nCarter's study in Plains, Georgia, last week we began by asking\nhim about the current architect of American foreign policy.\nPage 7\nTurning to foreign affairs, you have had your briefing\nfrom George Bush, not from Henry Kissinger, and some people\nthought when you referred to a \"lone ranger\" kind of foreign\npolicy you might possibly have meant Henry Kissinger. (Laughter)\nDo you disapprove of him in some manner, sir?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: Yes. I think Secretary Kissinger\nis a brilliant man and a good negotiator and has a good sense\nof humor. I like him personally. I think the thing I don't\nlike about Henry Kissinger is that I don't believe he trusts\nthe American people, our judgment, our common sense. I don't\nthink he has a deep commitment to the views and high moral\ncharacter of the people to be mirrored in what our country is.\nHe is much too inclined to act secretly, excluding us from\nparticipation in the decision-making process and that includes\nthe Congress as well.\nSecretary Kissinger has been inclined to establish his\nown reputation with highly publicized and sometimes nonproductive\ntrips to Peking seven or eight times, to Moscow five or six\ntimes. He has made decisions that affect our natural allies\nand friends, those in Europe, this hemisphere, Japan, without\nadequate prior consultation. Only recently has he shown any\ninterest in the developing nations of the world. So those are\nsome of the criticisms I have of him.\nHe has responded to some of my foreign policy speeches\nby saying he can't see any substantial difference between my\nattitude and that of himself, which is kind of a compliment to\nme. But there are some differences, primarily in getting the\nAmerican people and the Congress to form a much better informed\nand a much more bipartisan nature of support of what our country\nis and what we do in relationships with other nations.\nMR. REASONER: What would be some changes, what would\nbe some differences between a Carter foreign policy and a Kissinger\nforeign policy apart from the form?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: I would strengthen it in every way I\ncould through relationships among European countries in the NATO\narea. I think Secretary Kissinger has been inclined to treat\nthose nations as individuals and to discourage their closer\ncorrelation. I think a strong Europe, militarily, economically\nand politically would be to our own advantage. I would have a\nmuch greater emphasis on recementing foreign relationships that\npresently exist between our country and Canada, our country and\nMexico, our country and the other nations of Central and South\nAmerica.\nPage 8\n~\nI think we need to have a much more comprehensive\napproach to the problems of mutual defense. We have not reassessed\nnow our relative contributions to NATO, I believe, since 1967,\nand there has been a tremendous technological improvement in\nweapons systems since that time.\nI think we need to have reassurance to give to the\nJapanese and before we make any major immediate decisions\nas they relate to the People's Republic of China, or a shipment\nof crucial elements or commodities to Japan, like soybeans or coal,\nthat we ought to consult with them. So these are some of the\nthings that would be changed.\nI would be inclined toward friendship with the\nSoviet Union and with the People's Republic of China, and\nI think that friendship ought to be based on strength. I would\nnever yield in any way the full responsibility that would fall\non my shoulders, which is the most important of all, to have\na nation strong enough in its defense capability to guarantee\nthe security of our country.\nMR. REASONER: Secretary Kissinger recently began a\nnew, quite different American policy in Africa. Would you approve\nof that policy of starting an alliance with the black elements\nin Africa?\nGOVERNOR CARTER: I believe SO. I think this was brought\nabout belatedly by the abject failure of the Kissinger, Ford\nand Nixon policy, for instance, in Angola. We were faced\nwith the realization there when the Portuguese left Angola that\nwe had no policy that related directly with the people of that\nnation. We suffered because of it in that the Soviet Union\nand Cuba have now replaced us completely as a friend to the\nAngolan people. And I think in the aftermath of that debacle,\nwhich was brought about primarily by secrecy and a lack of planning\nand a lack of consideration of the needs of the natives of Angola,\nwe have suffered. And in the analysis of that suffering or\nmistake, I think Mr. Kissinger has moved in the right direction.\nMR. REASONER: For the past three nights we have broadcast\nfilmed reports on Jimmy Carter made during a visit to Plains,\nGeorgia, last week. Senator Walter Mondale, Carter's running\nmate, was there, too, staying in the farmhouse, seeing a few\nreporters, spending a lot of time talking to Carter. We stopped\nby the pond house to see Mondale and talk about how his feeling\nfor his role has developed since Madison Square Garden\nPage 9\nSenator, every President in my memory has said that\nhe was going to have a new and dramatically important role\nfor his Vice President, and Governor Carter says that, too,\nand I believe he means it, and I am sure you believe he means\nit. Has anything come up about what kind of a role that would\nbe? Has he any better idea than he did a couple of weeks ago?\nSENATOR MONDALE: I am aware of that, and the key\nquestion I had when I came to visit the Governor some weeks back\nat Plains was just that, number one, what was his concept of the\nVice Presidency, and, number two, were we personally compatible,\nand I came away convinced that he did want a role for the Vice\nPresidency and that we could get along and we could talk candidly.\nNow, I recognize that a Vice President works for the\nPresident. He is not an alternative President. One of the things\nthat encourages me is that we do get along very well, we are\nvery candid, very open and we don't mind criticizing each other.\nAnd in all these briefings I have been encouraged to\nparticipate fully. At our news conferences we participate in\nthem together. Of course, time will tell, but at this point I\nam encouraged to believe this may be different.\nPage 10\nBERAL\nAMERICA\nMR. REASONER: You haven't gotten into specifics\nas to what title you might have?\nSENATOR MONDALE: No, except in this sense: I told\nhim I was interested in, first of all, the opportunity to\nparticipate in the major decision-making process so I could\nbe heard; secondly, that I wanted some significant functions\nin both the domestic and foreign fields. I said that is\nwhat he wanted.\nMR. REASONER: Senator, are you going to continue\nto make an issue of the Nixon pardon in the campaign?\nSENATOR MONDALE: I think it is very important.\nYou know I am not questioning Mr. Ford's motives. That is not\nthe issue. But, that has bothered me from the time it\nhappened, and I said so in my book in 1974. This\nisn't something I just said at that Convention.\nThere is nothing more sacred to American life than\nthe notion of equality before the law. You know the Supreme\nCourt words above the door in the Supreme Court building\nsay, \"Equal Justice Under Law,\" and that has bothered me\ngreatly.\nNow, I don't intend to just dwell on it. I think\npeople know about it. You don't have to emphasize it all the\ntime, and there are many other issues we have to talk about.\nBut, that does bother me, and I am willing to say it.\nMR. REASONER: Has Governor Carter warned you\noff it?\nSENATOR MONDALE: No, he has said that he is not\ngoing to make it an issue, but he also said that he wouldn't\nhave granted the pardon. We have decided that in our\ncampaign, you know, that if we disagree on issues or disagree\non emphasis, that we are just going to do it.\nI know that that may not be believable, but we are\ngoing to try it. This old notion that a Vice President\nshould just be an identical carbon copy of a President, I\ndon't think it is believable. It certainly is not comfortable.\nI doubt that it is good Government. Of course, it is Governor\nCarter's Administration, but we are just going to try to be\nopen about it.\nPage 11\nMR. REASONER: Who would you rather run against,\nMr. Ford and Mr. X or Governor Reagan and Senator Schweiker?\nSENATOR MONDALE: I thought that over and dis-\ncovered that even if I had an opinion, they probably\nwouldn't listen. I don't know. I have not had much luck\nin advising Republicans. Frankly, I think if we do our\njob well and if the American people see Jimmy Carter the\nway I do and the way those who know him see him, I think\nGovernor Carter is going to be elected handsomely.\nMR. REASONER: We reported every night this week on\nthe Democratic ticket based on a trip to Plains, Georgia\nlast week and talked to Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale.\nWe noted we hope to do the same thing right after the\nKansas City Convention with the Republican ticket, in each\ncase an attempt to get the flavor of the candidates\nbefore the bombast and confusion of the formal campaign.\nIt seems like a good idea now to do a little summing up.\nEverybody knows by now that Plains, Georgia is a\nstrange place to grow a Presidential candidate, but it\ndoesn't really hit you until you see it. Here is a place\nwhich is really, in the old American phrase, 80 miles\nwest of nowhere. And here is a man, a few years ago at\nleast, with no powerful friends, no extensive record of\npublic service, with no inherited background of wealth or\nculture or intellectualism.\nHere is a man who decided a little over three years\nago he could run for President and now has, according to the\npolls, a good chance of moving into the most powerful office\nin the world.\nHow do you judge him? Well, in a way Mr. Carter\nhas made it easy. No candidate in my memory has said so\nmany things flatly that he must either live up to or become\nridiculous. Not since Dwight Eisenhower, for example, has\na President asked for this kind of an image.\nGOVERNOR CARTER: And the other thing is I consider\nmy word of honor at stake.\nPage 12\nMR. REASONER: And maybe never has a major candidate\nbeen so casually but determinedly religious. It scares some\npeople.\nGOVERNOR CARTER: The born again phrase is one that\nChrist himself used in explaining the doctrine that I just\ndescribed, that the first birth is from your mother's womb,\nthe second birth is when you are born into the Kingdom of\nGod and under that belief we are all brothers and sisters\non an equal basis as children of God.\nMR. REASONER: And rarely has a candidate seemed so\ncalmly confident that he can keep his promises.\nGOVERNOR CARTER: I don't intend to break my\npromises to the American people. I suppose that is one of\nthe most difficult things I will face, but I don't have\nany doubt that I will succeed. I have never made a private\npromise or commitment to any person, any special interest\ngroup or anyone.\nMR. REASONER: So to mix some metaphors, Mr.\nCarter has either built his own triumphal platform in\nadvance or carved his own petard to be hoist on, if that\nis what you do to petards. Of course, he can be forgiven\nif he is elected and find out that the United States\nCongress has not been born again.\nBut, in the areas that are largely under\nPresidential control, the Executive Branch, the forming\nof foreign policy, the openness of the White House and more\nthan anything the area of strong and unequivocal personal\nhonor and compassion he has -- well, he has asked for it.\nIt should be an interesting campaign.\n*****"
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