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Issues and Answers, 11/30/75 - Ronald Reagan
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Issues and Answers, 11/30/75 - Ronald Reagan
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Ron Nessen Files (Ford Administration)
Ron Nessen's Sunday Interview Show Transcripts
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The original documents are located in Box 67, folder "Issues and Answers, 11/30/1975 -
Ronald Reagan" of the Ron Nessen Files at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library.
Copyright Notice
The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) governs the making of
photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. Gerald R. Ford donated to the United
States of America his copyrights in all of his unpublished writings in National Archives collections.
Works prepared by U.S. Government employees as part of their official duties are in the public
domain. The copyrights to materials written by other individuals or organizations are presumed to
remain with them. If you think any of the information displayed in the PDF is subject to a valid
copyright claim, please contact the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library.
PLEASE CREDIT ANY QUOTES OR EXCERPTS FROM THIS ABC NEWS RADIO
AND TELEVISION PROGRAM TO "ABC NEWS' ISSUES AND ANSWERS."
ISSUES AND ANSWERS
SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 30, 1975
GUEST:
RONALD REAGAN - Former Governor of California
and Candidate for the Presidency
INTERVIEWED BY:
BOB CLARK - ABC News Issuea and Answers
Chief Correspondent
FRANDK REYNOLDS - ABC News Correspondent
- - -
- -
This is a rush transcript for
the press. Any questions re-
garding accuracy should be re-
ferred to ISSUES AND ANSWERS
- -
2
1
ANNOUNCER: Former Governor of California and candidate
2
for the Republican Presidential nomination, here are the
3
issues:
4
Will your challenge to President Ford destroy Republican
5
chances of holding on to the White House?
6
How do you propose to reduce the power of the federal
7
government without substantially increasing local and state
8
taxes?
9
If you were President, would you go to China to advance
10
detente?
11
*
12
MR. CLARK: Governor, your challenge to President Ford
13
has been greeted with alarm by some liberals and moderates
14
within your party. Senator Percy says your nomination would
15
wreck the party, and Senator Mathias is talking about starting
16
a third party.
17
Do you have a plan to make peace with the liberals, to
18
keep them under the Republican banner and under your banner
19
if you win the nomination?
20
MR. MEAGAN: Well, Bob, I have always disagreed with
21
those Republicans or those outside of the party who insist
22
on hyphenating Republicans, giving them saliva tests and
23
classifying them into narrow brackets as to where they stand
24
philosophically. I think all of us must have certain basic
25
agreements or we wouldn't be in the Republican Party.
3
1
I think they are wrong, and I think what they are ignoring
2
is a record of eight years that stands up there for anyone
3
to look at, the record of my administration in Sacramento,
4
California.
5
They can look at that record, and I doubt if they can
6
classify that into the narrow categories that they are viewing
7
with alarm. So I hope that by our practice of the 11th
8
Commandment, which was given birth in California, that their
9
fears will be eased.
10
MR. CLARK: Do you mean by this, Governor, that you
11
don't think it is necessary for you to offer any special olive
12
branch to the liberals? You think they simply have to look
13
at your record? Is that your view?
14
MR. REAGAN: I think they barked rather early, and maybe
15
if they will sit down in good faith and have a discussion --
16
which I would be very happy to have with them --- they would
17
find out that their fears are groundless.
18
MR. REYNOLDS: Governor, one of the reasons, I suppose
the major reason why liberals express misgivings about you
19
20
is because of some of the things that you have said
and the programs you have offered.
21
22
For example, your proposal to cut federal spending by
consequent
23
$90 billion, with a / reduction in federal income taxes
24
of about 23 percent, that you propose to give so many of
these programs now funded in part or in whole by the
ve
25
4
1
federal government back to the states. Is there anybody
2
else that you can think of in the Republican Party that really
3
believes that kind of a program?
4
MR. REAGAN: Well, yes, as a matter of fact, it has been
5
Republican philosophy for quite some years, and many times in
6
the platform, that there was an overcentralization of govern-
7
ment under Democratic regimes and over these last 40 years
8
of Democratic control of the House and Senate, and that the
9
Republican Party was pledged to government at the levels near-
10
est the people. I think that is standard Republican philosophy.
11
Now, my so-called cut of $90 billion with the total based
12
on the '76 budget projection, it was based on the amount of
13
money that is invested in programs that properly, regardless
14
of the money, properly belong at the state and local level.
15
And my own experience in California indicates that this is
16
so, and I think that most people today believe that. I think
17
many of our ills would disappear if some program such as welfare
18
and education were turned back to the states where they properly
19
belong.
20
MR. REYNOLDS: What would that do to the states them-
21
selves in terms of their own financing? For example, take
22
the state of New Hampshire. You will be interested in New
23
Hampshire before very long. New Hampshire now gets, on the
24
subject of welfare you would propose to return all welfare
25
obligations back to the states. Well, the federal government
5
1
pays 62 percent of the New Hampshire's total welfare expendi-
2
tures. That means New Hampshire has to either assume that or
3
cut it down.
4
MR. REAGAN: This is true, and I made the point this
5
would not be a net gain, but if these programs were turned
5
back let me say, also, not an instantaneous
7
cancellation of Federal government, and hopefully somebody
8
picks it up. I think you would have to have an orderly phas-
9
ing of these programs to local government or state government.
10
I think state governments at the same time when this happens
should be reviewing whether they should indeed pass the
11
12
program on to their local communities. Then I think that
13
you would have to have taxes increased at state and local
14
levels to offset this, or to maintain some of these programs.
15
Some programs undoubtedly would be dropped, because the federal
16
government has many programs. You know there is nothing that
17
is closer to eternal life than a government program once started
at the federal level. But the thing is, what we learned in
18
California with our own welfare reforms is, not only can they
19
be better administered, they can be more economically adminis-
20
tered. Now, if the federal government stopped preempting so
21
much of the tax dollar, taking all the sources of taxation
22
at the federal level, leaving local and state governments
23
strapped as to where they are to get the money they need,
24
25
if this was reduced at the federal level there would be leeway
6
1
for the states and local governments to take these over.
2
They would also be run at a much lower cost. The administra-
3
tive overhead of running any program at the federal level is
4
much greater than it is at any other level of government.
5
MR. CLARK: Governor Reagan, as I am sure you are aware,
6
New Hampshire is quite proud of the fact it is the only state
7
in the country that has neither state sales mr state income
8
taxes. Campaigning in New Hampshire on a program to turn
9
back responsibility for numerous federal programs to the
10
state, in candor wouldn't you have to tell the people of New
11
Hampshire that you are going to have to increase your tax bur-
12
den and that probably means either a sales tax or a state
13
income tax?
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
7
1
MR. REAGAN: But isn't this a proper decision for the
2
people of the state to make?
3
MR. CLARK: But isn't this going to be forced on them if
4
they are forced to take back these federal responsibilities?
MR. REAGAN: Yes, how they were to administer them, whether
E
they would administer them is properly a decision to be made
7
at the state level in these particular programs.
8
Let's emphasize I made it very plain in the same address
9
in which I outlined this overall plan, I made it very plain
10
that there are functions that are properly federal, properly
11
belong to the national government and should stay there. This
12
doesn't mean they can't be improved. It doesn't mean they can't
13
be made more efficient. I am sure they can be.
14
But, as you have just said, the federal government is --
15
your situation with regard to states -- now, in California we
16
have an income tax too, but we realize we are limited in that
17
income tax because the federal government is in there first
18
and that is the most elastic tax, that is the one that
19
grows with the economy the most, and the federal government has
20
pre-empted it to such an extent that local and state governments
21
are hard put to find legitimate sources for taxation.
22
MR. CLARK: Governor, that raises an interesting point.
23
You have lost a celebrated item here in California, proposition
24
one where you attempted to put a limit on the amount of state
25
taxes that should be collected and paid the taxes to the total
8
2
-
personal income in the state.
2
If you become President, would you try to do the same
8
thing with federal taxes? Would you think of some outer
di
limit that might be placed on federal income taxes?
5
MR. REAGAN: As a matter of fact, it is not just income
taxes; it is all taxes. The perentage of the earned dollar
6
that government takes is too high. That all governments take
7
is too high.
8
9
It is one of the things that is holding down our economy.
We lost in California on that. We would take more than a
10
half hour if I tried to explain it in full. Frankly, we were
11
just out-muscled. The big lie defeated us and we didn't have
12
the muscle to overcome it, but 69 per cent of the people who
13
voted against that program had been deceived into believing
14
they were voting against a tax increase.
15
MR. CLARK: If you become President, might you think in
16
terms of a proposition one on the federal level?
17
MR. REAGAN: Well, you take your prdiem to Congress
18
but that is already there. There is legislation that has been
19
introduced in Congress by a group of congressmen who saw this
20
California experiment and believed
21
MR. CLARK: Would you support it, though?
22
23
MR. REAGAN: I certainly would.
24
MR. REYNOLDS: Governor, before we leave this whole area,
25
3
9
1
what would your program, if fully implemented, do to the
2
poorer states?
3
All states are not equal. California seems to be in pretty
4
good shape, but what about Arkansas and Mississippi and some.
of these other states who don't have ---
5
MR. REAGAN: It is true, there are states that get more
6
from the federal government than they return to the federal
7
government. They are low-taxed states. They are not burdened
8
9
with heavy taxation, but let me ask you something: One of
those high tax-paying states, so-called wealthy states, is New
10
York.
11
Is New York, today, in a position to solve its own prob-
12
lems and at the same time send money to some other states?
13
MR. REYNOLDS: Is New York in a position to assume all
14
of the programs that you would give back to New York, all
15
Welfare costs, all aid to education and everything else?
16
MR. REAGAN: Yes, because many of these programs, you see,
17
are -- the manner in which the federal government insists on
18
their implementation is excessive, and the rules and regula-
19
tions force upon states and cities like New York things that
20
administratively they would not do if they had the leeway to
21
do it.
22
Now, let's point out another thing. If Welfare were
23
returned to the state level, a state could have a limitation,
24
or a residency requirement in order to get welfare, which they
25
10
1
always had, until the federal government was involved to such
2
an extent that the Supreme Court ruled that, no, you could
3
move anywhere in the United States you wanted and instantly be
4
eligible for Welfare in whatever state you chose.
5
Now, states like New York and California that have tried
5
to do more than other states, that had higher Welfare payments,
7
found themselves with an in-migration from these other states.
8
But if you returned this to the states and the federal govern-
9
ment was not involved, a state like New York that was burdened
10
with this great in-migration could have had a rule that said
11
"Oh, no, you have to live here a year before you are eligible
12
for Welfare."
13
MR. REYNOLDS: Now that you have raised the topic, suppose
14
we ask you, what do you think of the way the President has
15
handled the New York situation? Are you in agreement with him
16
as far as New York's finances are concerned?
17
MR. REAGAN: I am worried about a precedent being establish-
18
ed that might be passed on, or that might lead to other cities
saying, "Well, we can be careless with our bonding and we can
19
20
float more bonds than our credit requires and count on the
federal government to bail us out."
21
22
I do recognize that the President has placed this on
23
New York, reversing the trend that led to their problem.
24
There is no question but that the victims in New York are the
25
three million working tax-paying citizens, working in the private
sector who must put up all the money that pays for everything
11
1
else; who for some 20-odd years have had their political
2
leaders deceive them as to the practices they were following to
3
the place that New York now has aper capita cost for basic
4
services that is more than twice that of all the other big
Ens
cities in the United States.
8
MR. CLARK: We would like to get a specific answer on
New York. If you were President do you think you would have
7
made the offer that President Ford has made to make direct
8
federal loans to New York City to help get it out of its
@
financial crisis?
10
MR. REAGAN: I wish I could give you an answer to that.
11
As I say, I am worried about the precedent.
12
On the other hand, I don't want to see those three million
13
working citizens I have mentioned victimized with creditors
14
holding the bag and with bondholders in the same position.
15
I haven't had an opportunity to study all the ramifica-
16
tions. I heard the President make his statement. It sounded
17
like a practical plan. I have the concern that I have
18
mentioned. I frankly want to give this more study before I
19
tell you that is the solution that I would pick.
20
******
21
MR. CLARK: Governor, as you know, Vice President
22
Rockefeller hasn't quite taken himself out of the 1976 picture.
23
He has declined to say flatly thathe will not be a candidate
24
for the Republican nomination.
25
12
1
Do you view him as a rival for the nomination?
2
MR. REAGAN: No. I am aware of his position and it is
3
similar to a position he has taken in previous national
4
elections and that is a decision for him to make.
5
I have said that I will not be surprised if, now that I
6
have declared, if others do not follow suit and get into the
7
race.
8
MR. REYNOLDS: Do you expect John Connally to come in?
9
MR. REAGAIN: I don't know. I think that John Connally
10
certainly is available and would not refuse if there was an
11
indication from enough people that they thought he should make
12
a run for it.
13
MR. REYNOLDS: Governor, what is your strategy, to knock
14
the President out in the early primaries, force him to withdraw?
MR. REAGAN: My strategy is a little more
15
naive than that. My strategy is to take my case to the people
16
as to what I believe should be done with regard to the problems
17
and what I think the solutions are, what the policy should be,
18
and let the people decide.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
13
1
1
MR. REYNOLDS: The President has indicated no great wil-
2
lingness to debate you. Would you like to debate Mr. Ford,
3
say up there in Manchester?
4
MR. REAGAN: Well, I have to say this. I know that
5
the challenge and the rejection of debate is kind of a campaign
6
tactic that is used both ways, in politics. I have to say
7
that I believe the people can find out what you believe, what
8
your principles are, without the two of you appearing simul-
9
taneously.
10
MR. REYNOLDS: You don't think it is easier to choose
11
between the two of you, if they could see you side by side
12
discussing these issues, having a free and frank exchange of
13
views?
14
MR. REAGAN: Well, is it any different than seeing each
15
candidate frankly express his views and then someone else ---
16
and you gentlemen of the press make no -- you leave no stone
17
unturned to pin each one of us down on what the other one
18
has done and what you would do likewise. I am not sure
that it is beneficial.
19
MR. CLARK: Governor, one more question about Vice Presi-
20
dent Rockefeller. He has refused to say that if you win the
21
22
nomination he would support you. If by some chance he be-
23
came the Republican nominee, would you support him?
24
MR. REAGAN: Well, he is not even a candidate yet.
25
I will wait and answer that when he becomes a candidate.
14
2
1
I think I would be surprised and disappointed if Vice President
2
Rockefeller took that attitude with regard to a Republican
3
nominee. I would be surprised, myself. I believe in the
4
philosophy of the Republican Party. I know that the Vice
5
President and I differ philosophically on a number of points.
6
At the same time, we have a most friendly and cordial rela-
7
tionship.
8
MR. CLARK: Governor, would you say ---- this is a way out
9
of the dilemma we put politicians in on this --- would you simply
10
say you would support the nominee
11
of the Republican Convention, whoever he may be?
12
MR. REAGAN: Well, now, that is a hypothetical question.
13
MR. CLARK: Is that hypothetical? There aren't very many
14
candidates.
15
MR. REAGAN: Wait a minute. You can get into all sorts
16
of things. Would I, when I was a Democrat, would I have
17
stayed with my party in '72 when they chose a man who I thought
was so far afield from what the American people wanted, then
18
the answer would be no. So you can't rule that that can't
19
happen to any party as it did to that one. I don't think it
20
could happen to the Republican Party, but you can't make
21
a flat assertion that it won't.
22
23
MR. REYNOLDS: You are well on your way right now to
reviving talk about
24
a third party with you heading a
25
third party possibly?
3
15
1
MR. REAGAN: No, I rule that out.
2
MR. CLARK: Neither you nor Vice President Rockefeller
3
will say they will support the nominee of the party. Doesn't
4
this inspire the sort of divisiveness that Republican leaders
5
in both the left and right wings, the liberal and conservative
6
wings, are trying to avoid?
7
MR. REAGAN: No. There are two candidates at the moment
8
for the nomination of the Republican Party 1008 myself and Presi-
9
dent Ford. If President Ford wins, I will support him.
10
MR. CLARK: There have been reports when you telephoned
11
President Ford to tell him you were going to challenge him
12
for the nomination he told you, as the report read, that this
13
would cause bitterness and divisiveness within the party and
14
weaken its chances of defeating the Democrats next year. Did
15
the President say this to you?
16
MR. REAGAN: The President expressed a concern. I made
17
my pledge to him about doing nothing divisive. He made the
18
same pledge to me. He did express a concern that in spite
19
of this, the other people who are involved in campaigns, that
20
the danger was there. Well, I have the experience of a '66
21
campaign in California in which we all did observe the 11th
22
Commandment, and we put the Republican Party back together in
23
this state for the first time in 50 years, that it had been
24
a united party.
25
4
16
1
MR. REYNOLDS: Governor, do you believe the President's
2
current trip to China --- he is on his way there today -- is
S
worthwhile?
4
MR. REAGAN: Well, he expressed the hope it was to improve
5
chances for peace. In that regard I hope it is successful.
6
Frankly, I have to wonder if it isn't time for China to come
7
visit us.
8
MR. CLARK: Governor, one of the questions that is still
9
h anging over our relations with China is whether we should
10
upgrade our diplomatic relations with China and establish an
11
embassy in Peking. Now, the one could be that this would mean
12
abandoning Taiwan. If you were President, would you take that fur
13
ther step toward closer relationships to China?
14
MR. REAGAN: Not if it in any way reduced our relation-
15
ships with Taiwan. Taiwan is an ally. We have a treaty
16
with Taiwan. I believe Taiwan as a trade partner is an
17
economic force in the world far in excess of Mainland China. But
18
while I want better relations on an honest basis with Red
19
China,
as I am sure everyone else does, that this country
20
not, if it means sacrificing our relationship with Taiwan.
21
MR. CLARK: Would you, as President, place conditions
over further moves toward detente
22
with the Russians? Would you want specific
23
for instance, on the subject of further talks toward mutual
24
reductions of nuclear arms?
25
MR. REAGAN: I have criticized detente because I don't
17
1
think detente is as much of a two-way street as it was set
2
out to be, and as it is supposed to be. I believe Russia is
spirit, the
8
violating certainly the/intent of detente, with its help to
4
the rebels in Angola and its involvement in the civil war in
$
Angola. I think that the Soviet Union with its out-spending
6
us in both nuclear and conventional weapons, its rapid build-
7
up trying to atain a superiority, none of this is in the spirit
8
of detente, and I think detente, a worthy idea -- none of
9
us wants confrontation, we want a world that can find areas
10
where we can discuss our problems and talk about them -- I
11
believe the United States, however, should insist that we not
12
give more than we are getting.
13
MR. REYNOLDS: Is that what has happened, Governor? Have
14
we given more than we have been getting?
15
MR. REAGAN: I think we have. As I say, we are not in-
16
volved in Angola, we are not involved in Portugal as the Soviet
17
U nion is. We have just had the Congress of the United States
18
I think dangerously reduce our defense budget, but we know
19
that the Russians are outspending us, 60 percent in nuclear
20
weapons, 25 percent in conventional weapons. They have added
21
2,000 pieces of artillery and 1,000 tanks to the forces in
22
Eastern Europe that are opposed to the NATO line. We have added
23
none. I think this is not detente, as I view it.
24
25
18
I
MR. REYNOLDS: You have said that you believed the
2
Vladivostok Agreement should be renegotiated. How would you
3
persuade the Russians to do this?
4
MR. REAGAN: I think we gave away too much in Vladivostok.
5
SALT I started out on a basis of equality. This is all ectually
6
former Secretary Schlesinger was aiming at with the budget he
7
submitted. It was not a superiority but an equality of arms.
8
To maintain a status quo. What was left out in Vladivostok
9
was throw weight. We counted numbers of missiles. Well, if
10
we are going to have "x" number of little rocks and you are
going to have "x" number of great big rocks, it is not going
11
to be an even contest if we have to start throwing them at each
12
other.
13
MR. CLARK: Governor, we wanted to ask you a couple of
14
specific questions.
IS
President Ford is under pressure from conservatives and
18
the oil industry to veto the compromise oil energy package
17
finally being worked out by Congress. If you were President,
18
would you veto this compromise bill?
19
MR. REAGAN: Yes. In two ways it violates to me everything
20
that we need to do. First of all, it wtakes away any stimulant
21
for the production of new sources of energy in this country,
22
and, second of all, it does away with one important factor in
23
attempting conservation.
24
Now, there is a need for conservation on the part of the
25
19
2
1
people, but, reducing the price of gasoline, happy as it would
2
make all of us that
have to drive into the gas station
3
and fill up the tank, at the same time we have to recognize it
&
is going to encourage further use of petroleum sources.
5
MR. CLARK: And, Governor, another specific question:
DO you favor a constitutional amendment to prohibit courts
6
from ordering school busing to achieve racial balance or inte-
7
gration?
8
MR. REAGAN: Well, before we
turn to a constitutional
9
amendment --- I know it is awful easy to look at that as a
10
simple answer to many things, and I don't think the Constitu-
11
tion should deteriorate into involving itself in what should
12
be done by statute and legislation. If that is a last resort,
18
yes, because I am unalterably opposed to forced busing. I
14
don't think it has solved the problem. It has added to the
15
bitterness we were trying to alleviate.
16
I believe here,
in what we talked about earlier,
17
education is one of the areas where I think the federal govern-
18
ment should get its nose out. Again, if control of schools
19
was turned back to the local level, then those decisions would
20
be made by the people at the local level in the local school
21
districts and forced busing usually has come from decisions
22
at the federal level.
23
MR. REYNOLDS: What is your alternative to busing,
24
Governor?
25
3
20
are
MR. REAGAN: I think there are a number of alternatives.
2
I think, for one thing, you start out, if there are schools of
3
unequal quality, if you have schools in a metropolitan area
4
like New York and Los Angeles, where in certain areas they are
in
inferior
in facilities and teaching quality to others, you
e
upgrade that. But I think there are things that you can do --
7
MR. CLARK: Governor, I hate to interrupt you in the
8
middle of an answer as complicated as this one, but we are out
9
of time. Thank you very much for being with us on ISSUES AND
10
ANSWERS.
MR. REAGAN: Thank you.
11
12
-
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
PLEASE CREDIT ANY QUOTES OR EXCERPTS FROM THIS ABC NEWS RADIO
AND TELEVISION PROGRAM TO "ABC NEWS' ISSUES AND ANSWERS." "
ISSUES AND ANSWERS
SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 30, 1975
GUEST:
RONALD REAGAN - Former Governor of California
and Candidate for the Presidency
INTERVIEWED BY:
BOB CLARK - ABC News Issuea and Answers
Chief Correspondent
FRANDK REYNOLDS - ABC News Correspondent
- - --
I $ 1
This is a rush transcript for
the press. Any questions re-
garding accuracy should be re-
ferred to ISSUES AND ANSWERS
- - -
2
1
ANNOUNCER: Former Governor of California and candidate
2
for the Republican Presidential nomination, here are the
3
issues:
4
Will your challenge to President Ford destroy Republican
5
chances of holding on to the White House?
6
How do you propose to reduce the power of the federal
7
government without substantially increasing local and state
8
taxes?
9
If you were President, would you go to China to advance
10
detente?
11
* * *
12
MR. CLARK: Governor, your challenge to President Ford
13
has been greeted with alarm by some liberals and moderates
14
within your party. Senator Percy says your nomination would
15
wreck the party, and Senator Mathias is talking about starting
16
a third party.
17
Do you have a plan to make peace with the liberals, to
18
keep them under the Republican banner and under your banner
19
if you win the nomination?
20
MR. MEAGAN: Well, Bob, I have always disagreed with
21
those Republicans or those outside of the party who insist
22
on hyphenating Republicans, giving them saliva tests and
23
classifying them into narrow brackets as to where they stand
24
philosophically. I think all of us must have certain basic
25
agreements or we wouldn't be in the Republican Party.
3
1
I think they are wrong, and I think what they are ignoring
2
is a record of eight years that stands up there for anyone
3
to look at, the record of my administration in Sacramento,
4
California.
5
They can look at that record, and I doubt if they can
6
classify that into the narrow categories that they are viewing
7
with alarm. So I hope that by our practice of the 11th
8
Commandment, which was given birth in California, that their
9
fears will be eased.
10
MR. CLARK: Do you mean by this, Governor, that you
11
don't think it is necessary for you to offer any special clive
12
branch to the liberals? You think they simply have to look
13
at your record? Is that your view?
14
MR. REAGAN: I think they barked rather early, and maybe
15
if they will sit down in good faith and have a discussion -
16
which I would be very happy to have with them -- they would
17
find out that their fears are groundless.
MR. REYNOLDS: Governor, one of the reasons, I suppose
18
the major reason why liberals express misgivings about you
19
is because of some of the things that you have said
20
and the programs you have offered.
21
For example, your proposal to cut federal spending by
22
consequent
$90 billion, with a / reduction in federal income taxes
23
24
of about 23 percent, that you propose to give so many of
25
these programs now funded in part or in whole by the
4
?
federal government back to the states. Is there anybody
2
else that you can think of in the Republican Party that really
3
believes that kind of a program?
4
MR. REAGAN: Well, yes, as a matter of fact, it has been
5
Republican philosophy for quite some years, and many times in
6
the platform, that there was an overcentralization of govern-
7
ment under Democratic regimes and over these last 40 years
8
of Democratic control of the House and Senate, and that the
9
Republican Party was pledged to government at the levels near-
to
est the people. I think that is standard Republican philosophy.
11
Now, my so-called cut of $90 billion with the total based
12
on the '76 budget projection, it was based on the amount of
13
money that is invested in programs that properly, regardless
14
of the money, properly belong at the state and local level.
15
And my own experience in California indicates that this is
16
so, and I think that most people today believe that. I think
17
many of our ills would disappear if some program such as welfare
18
and education were turned back to the states where they properly
19
belong.
20
MR. REYNOLDS: What would that do to the states them-
21
selves in terms of their own financing? For example, take
22
the state of New Hampshire. You will be interested in New
23
Hampshire before very long. New Hampshire now gets, on the
24
subject of welfare you would propose to return all welfare
25
obligations back to the states. Well, the federal government
5
1
pays 62 percent of the New Hampshire's total welfare expendi-
2
tures. That means New Hampshire has to either assume that or
3
cut it down.
4
MR. REAGAN: This is true, and I made the point this
5
would not be a net gain, but if these programs were turned
6
back - let me say, also, not an instantaneous
7
cancellation of Federal government, and hopefully somebody
8
picks it up. I think you would have to have an orderly phas-
9
ing of these programs to local government or state government.
10
I think state governments at the same time when this happens
should be reviewing whether they should indeed pass the
11
12
program on to their local communities. Then I think that
13
you would have to have taxes increased at state and local
14
levels to offset this, or to maintain some of these programs.
15
Some programs undoubtedly would be dropped, because the federal
16
government has many programs. You know there is nothing that
17
is closer to eternal life than a government program once started
at the federal level. But the thing is, what we learned in
18
California with our own welfare reforms is, not only can they
19
be better administered, they can be more economically adminis-
20
tered. Now, if the federal government stopped preempting so
21
much of the tax dollar, taking all the sources of taxation
22
at the federal level, leaving local and state governments
23
24
strapped as to where they are to get the money they need,
25
if this was reduced at the federal level there would be leeway
6
I
for the states and local governments to take these over.
2
They would also be run at a much lower cost. The administra-
3
tive overhead of running any program at the federal level is
4
much greater than it is at any other level of government.
5
MR. CLARK: Governor Reagan, as I am sure you are aware,
6
New Hampshire is quite proud of the fact it is the only state
7
in the country that has neither state sales mr state income
8
taxes. Campaigning in New Hampshire on a program to turn
9
back responsibility for numerous federal programs to the
10
state, in candor wouldn't you have to tell the people of New
11
Hampshire that you are going to have to increase your tax bur-
12
den and that probably means either a sales tax or a state
13
income tax?
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
7
1
MR. REAGAN: But isn't this a proper decision for the
2
people of the state to make?
3
MR. CLARK: But isn't this going to be forced on them if
4
they are forced to take back these federal responsibilities?
(%
MR. REAGAN: Yes, how they were to administer them, whether
e
they would administer them is properly a decision to be made
7
at the state level in these particular programs.
8
Let's emphasize I made it very plain in the same address
9
in which I outlined this overall plan, I made it very plain
10
that there are functions that are properly federal, properly
11
belong to the national government and should stay there. This
12
doesn't mean they can't be improved. It doesn't mean they can't
13
be made more efficient. I am sure they can be.
14
But, as you have just said, the federal government is -
15
your situation with regard to states - now, in California we
16
have an income tax too, but we realize we are limited in that
17
income tax because the federal government is in there first
18
and that is the most elastic tax, that is the one that
19
grows with the economy the most, and the federal government has
20
pre-empted it to such an extent that local and state governments
21
are hard put to find legitimate sources for taxation.
22
MR. CLARK: Governor, that raises an interesting point.
23
You have lost a celebrated item here in California, proposition
24
one where you attempted to put a limit on the amount of state
25
taxes that should be collected and paid the taxes to the total
8
2
1
personal income in the state.
2
If you become President, would you try to do the same
3
thing with federal taxes? Would you think of some outer
4
limit that might be placed on federal income taxes?
5
MR. REAGAN: As a matter of fact, it is not just income
taxes; it is all taxes. The perentage of the earned dollar
6
7
that government takes is too high. That all governments take
is too high.
8
9
It is one of the things that is holding down our economy.
We lost in California on that. We would take more than a
10
half hour if I tried to explain it in full. Frankly, we were
11
just out-muscled. The big lie defeated U.S and we didn't have
12
the muscle to overcome it, but 69 per cent of the people who
18
voted against that program had been deceived into believing
14
they were voting against a tax increase.
15
MR. CLARK: If you become President, might you think in
16
terms of a proposition one on the federal level?
17
MR. REAGAN: Well, you take your prddem to Congress
18
but that is already there. There is legislation that has been
19
introduced in Congress by a group of congressmen who saw this
20
California experiment and believed
21
MR. CLARK: Would you support it, though?
22
23
MR. REAGAN: I certainly would.
24
MR. REYNOLDS: Governor, before we leave this whole area,
25
3
9
I
what would your program, if fully implemented, do to the
2
poorer states?
3
All states are not equal. California seems to be in pretty
4
good shape, but what about Arkansas and Mississippi and some
of these other states who don't have --
5
MR. REAGAN: It is true, there are states that get more
5
from the federal government than they return to the federal
7
8
government. They are low-taxed states. They are not burdened
$
with heavy taxation, but let me ask you something: One of
those high tax-paying states, so-called wealthy states, is New
10
York.
11
Is New York, today, in a position to solve its own prob-
12
lems and at the same time send money to some other states?
13
MR. REYNOLDS: Is New York in a position to assume all
14
of the programs that you would give back to New York, all
15
Welfare costs, all aid to education and everything else?
16
MR. REAGAN: Yes, because many of these programs, you see,
17
are - the manner in which the federal government insists on
18
their implementation is excessive, and the rules and regula-
19
tions force upon states and cities like New York things that
20
administratively they would not do if they had the leeway to
21
do it.
22
Now, let's point out another thing. If Welfare were
23
returned to the state level, a state could have a limitation,
24
or a residency requirement in order to get welfare, which they
25
10
1
always had, until the federal government was involved to such
2
an extent that the Supreme Court ruled that, no, you could
3
move anywhere in the United States you wanted and instantly be
4
eligible for Welfare in whatever state you chose.
5
Now, states like New York and California that have tried
6
to do more than other states, that had higher Welfare payments,
7
found themselves with an in-migration from these other states.
8
But if you returned this to the states and the federal govern-
9
ment was not involved, a state like New York that was burdened
10
with this great in-migration could have had a rule that said
11
"Oh, no, you have to live here a year before you are eligible
12
for Welfare."
13
MR. REYNOLDS: Now that you have raised the topic, suppose
14
we ask you, what do you think of the way the President has
15
handled the New York situation? Are you in agreement with him
16
as far as New York's finances are concerned?
17
MR. REAGAN: I am worried about a precedent being establish-
18
ed that might be passed on, or that might lead to other cities
saying, "Well, we can be careless with our bonding and we can
19
float more bonds than our credit requires and count on the
20
federal government to bail us out."
21
22
I do recognize that the President has placed this on
23
New York, reversing the trend that led to their problem.
24
There is no question but that the victims in New York are the
25
three million working tax-paying citizens, working in the private
sector who must put up all the money that pays for everything
11
1
else; who for some 20-odd years have had their political
2
leaders deceive them as to the practices they were following to
3
the place that New York now has a per capita dost for basic
4
services that is more than twice that of all the other big
E
cities in the United States.
MR. CLARK: We would like to get a specific answer on
3
New York. If you were President do you think you would have
7
made the offer that President Ford has made to make direct
8
federal loans to New York City to help get it out of its
9
financial crisis?
10
MR. REAGAN: I wish I could give you an answer to that.
11
As I say, I am worried about the precedent.
12
On the other hand, I don't want to see those three million
13
working citizens I have mentioned victimized with creditors
14
holding the bag and with bondholders in the same position.
15
I haven't had an opportunity to study all the ramifica-
16
tions. I heard the President make his statement. It sounded
17
like a practical plan. I have the concern that I have
18
mentioned. I frankly want to give this more study before I
19
tell you that is the solution that I would pick.
20
******
21
MR. CLARK: Governor, as you know, Vice President
22
Rockefeller hasn't quite taken himself out of the 1976 picture.
23
He has declined to say flatly thathe will not be a candidate
24
for the Republican nomination.
25
12
1
Do you view him as a rival for the nomination?
2
MR. REAGAN: No. I am aware of his position and it is
3
similar to a position he has taken in previous national
4
elections and that is a decision for him to make.
5
I have said that I will not be surprised if, now that I
6
have declared, if others do not follow suit and get into the
7
race.
8
MR. REYNOLDS: Do you expect John Connally to come in?
9
MR. REAGAIN: I don't know. I think that John Connally
10
certainly is available and would not refuse if there was an
11
indication from enough people that they thought he should make
12
a run for it.
13
MR. REYNOLDS: Governor, what is your strategy, to knock
14
the President out in the early primaries, force him to withdraw?
MR. REAGAN: My strategy is a little more
15
naive than that. My strategy is to take my case to the people
16
as to what I believe should be done with regard to the problems
17
and what I think the solutions are, what the policy should be,
18
and let the people decide.
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
13
1
1
MR. REYNOLDS: The President has indicated no great wil-
2
lingness to debate you. Would you like to debate Mr. Ford,
3
say up there in Manchester?
4
MR. REAGAN: Well, I have to say this. I know that
5
the challenge and the rejection of debate is kind of a campaign
6
tactic that is used both ways, in politics. I have to say
7
that I believe the people can find out what you believe, what
8
your principles are, without the two of you appearing simul-
9
taneously.
10
MR. REYNOLDS: You don't think it is easier to choose
11
between the two of you, if they could see you side by side
12
discussing these issues, having a free and frank exchange of
13
views?
14
MR. REAGAN: Well, is it any different than seeing each
15
candidate frankly express his views and then someone else --
16
and you gentlemen of the press make no -- you leave no stone
17
unturned to pin each one of us down on what the other one
18
has done and what you would do likewise. I am not sure
that it is beneficial.
19
MR. CLARK: Governor, one more question about Vice Presi-
20
dent Rockefeller. He has refused to say that if you win the
21
nomination he would support you. If by some chance he be-
22
23
came the Republican nominee, would you support him?
24
MR. REAGAN: Well, he is not even a candidate yet.
I will wait and answer that when he becomes a candidate.
25
14
2
1
I think I would be surprised and disappointed if Vice President
2
Rockefeller took that attitude with regard to a Republican
3
nominee. I would be surprised, myself. I believe in the
4
philosophy of the Republican Party. I know that the Vice
5
President and I differ philosophically on a number of points.
6
At the same time, we have a most friendly and cordial rela-
7
tionship.
8
MR. CLARK: Governor, would you say PASS this is a way out
9
of the dilemma we put politicians in on this -- would you simply
10
say you would support the nominee
11
of the Republican Convention, whoever he may be?
12
MR. REAGAN: Well, now, that is a hypothetical question.
13
MR. CLARK: Is that hypothetical? There aren't very many
14
candidates.
15
MR. REAGAN: Wait a minute. You can get into all sorts
16
of things. Would I, when I was a Democrat, would I have
17
stayed with my party in '72 when they chose a man who I thought
18
was so far afield from what the American people wanted, then
the answer would be no. So you can't rule that that can't
19
happen to any party as it did to that one. I don't think it
20
could happen to the Republican Party, but you can't make
21
a flat assertion that it won't.
22
23
MR. REYNOLDS: You are well on your way right now to
reviving talk about
24
a third party with you heading a
25
third party possibly?
3
15
1
MR. REAGAN: No, I rule that out.
2
MR. CLARK: Neither you nor Vice President Rockefeller
3
will say they will support the nominee of the party. Doesn't
4
this inspire the sort of divisiveness that Republican leaders
5
in both the left and right wings, the liberal and conservative
6
wings, are trying to avoid?
7
MR. REAGAN: No. There are two candidates at the moment
8
for the nomination of the Republican Party - myself and Presi-
9
dent Ford. If President Ford wins, I will support him.
10
MR. CLARK: There have been reports when you telephoned
11
President Ford to tell him you were going to challenge him
12
for the nomination he told you, as the report read, that this
13
would cause bitterness and divisiveness within the party and
14
weaken its chances of defeating the Democrats next year. Did
15
the President say this to you?
16
MR. REAGAN: The President expressed a concern. I made
17
my pledge to him about doing nothing divisive. He made the
18
same pledge to me. He did express a concern that in spite
19
of this, the other people who are involved in campaigns, that
20
the danger was there. Well, I have the experience of a '66
21
campaign in California in which we all did observe the 11th
22
Commandment, and we put the Republican Party back together in
23
this state for the first time in 50 years, that it had been
24
a united party.
25
4
16
1
MR. REYNOLDS: Governor, do you believe the President's
2
current trip to China --- he is on his way there today - is
3
worthwhile?
4
MR. REAGAN: Well, he expressed the hope it was to improve
5
chances for peace. In that regard I hope it is successful.
6
Frankly, I have to wonder if it isn't time for China to come
7
visit us.
8
MR. CLARK: Governor, one of the questions that is still
9
h anging over our relations with China is whether we should
10
upgrade our diplomatic relations with China and establish an
11
embassy in Peking. Now, the one could be that this would mean
12
abandoning Taiwan. If you were President, would you take that fur
13
ther step toward closer relationships to China?
14
MR. REAGAN: Not if it in any way reduced our relation-
15
ships with Taiwan. Taiwan is an ally. We have a treaty
16
with Taiwan. I believe Taiwan as a trade partner is an
17
economic force in the world far in excess of Mainland China. But
18
while I want better relations on an honest basis with Red
19
China,
as I am sure everyone else does, that this country
20
not, if it means sacrificing our relationship with Taiwan.
21
MR. CLARK: Would you, as President, place conditions
over further moves toward detente
22
with the Russians? Would you want specific
23
for instance, on the subject of further talks toward mutual
24
reductions of nuclear arms?
25
MR. REAGAN: I have criticized detente because I don't
17
-
think detente is as much of a two-way street as it was set
2
out to be, and as it is supposed to be. I believe Russia is
spirit, the
3
violating certainly the/intent of detente, with its help to
4
the rebels in Angola and its involvement in the civil war in
$
Angola. I think that the Soviet Union with its out-spending
6
us in both nuclear and conventional weapons, its rapid build-
7
up trying to atain a superiority, none of this is in the spirit
8
of detente, and I think detente, a worthy idea - none of
9
us wants confrontation, we want a world that can find areas
10
where we can discuss our problems and talk about them - I
11
believe the United States, however, should insist that we not
12
give more than we are getting.
13
MR. REYNOLDS: Is that what has happened, Governor? Have
14
we given more than we have been getting?
15
MR. REAGAN: I think we have. As I say, we are not in-
16
volved in Angola, we are not involved in Portugal as the Soviet
17
U nion is. We have just had the Congress of the United States
18
I think dangerously reduce our defense budget, but we know
19
that the Russians are outspending us, 60 percent in nuclear
20
weapons, 25 percent in conventional weapons They have added
21
2,000 pieces of artillery and 1,000 tanks to the forces in
22
Eastern Europe that are opposed to the NATO line. We have added
23
none. I think this is not detente, as I view it.
24
25
18
MR. REYNOLDS: You have said that you believed the
2
Vladivostok Agreement should be renegotiated. How would you
3
persuade the Russians to do this?
4
MR. REAGAN: I think we gave away too much in Vladivostok.
5
SALT I started out on a basis of equality. This is all actually
former Secretary Schlesinger was aiming at with the budget he
6
7
submitted. It was not a superiority but an equality of arms.
To maintain a status quo. What was left out in Vladivostok
8
9
was throw weight. We counted numbers of missiles. Well, if
we are going to have "x" number of little rocks and you are
10
going to have "x" number of great big rocks, it is not going
11
to be an even contest if we have to start throwing them at each
12
other.
13
MR. CLARK: Governor, we wanted to ask you a couple of
14
specific questions.
15
President Ford is under pressure from conservatives and
16
the oil industry to veto the compromise oil energy package
17
finally being worked out by Congress. If you were President,
10
would you veto this compromise bill?
19
MR. REAGAN: Yes. In two ways it violates to me everything
20
that we need to do. First of all, it wtakes away any stimulant
21
for the production of new sources of energy in this country,
22
and, second of all, it does away with one important factor in
23
attempting conservation.
24
Now, there is a need for conservation on the part of the
25
19
2
will
people, but, reducing the price of gasoline, happy as it would
2
make all of us that
have to drive into the gas station
3
and fill up the tank, at the same time we have to recognize it
4
is going to encourage further use of petroleum sources.
5
MR. CLARK: And, Governor, another specific question:
Do you favor a constitutional amendment to prohibit courts
6
from ordering school busing to achieve racial balance or inte-
7
gration?
8
MR. REAGAN: Well, before we
turn to a constitutional
9
amendment -- I know it is awful easy to look at that as a
10
simple answer to many things, and I don't think the Constitu-
11
tion should deteriorate into involving itself in what should
12
be done by statute and legislation. If that is a last resort,
13
yes, because I am unalterably opposed to forced busing. I
14
don't think it has solved the problem. It has added to the
15
bitterness we were trying to alleviate.
16
I believe here,
in what we talked about earlier,
17
education is one of the areas where I think the federal govern-
18
ment should get its nose out. Again, if control of schools
19
was turned back to the local level, then those decisions would
20
be made by the people at the local level in the local school
21
districts and forced busing usually has come from decisions
22
at the federal level.
23
MR. REYNOLDS: What is your alternative to busing,
24
Governor?
25
3
20
1
MR. REAGAN: I think there are a number of alternatives.
2
I think, for one thing, you start out, if there are schools of
3
unequal quality, if you have schools in a metropolitan area
4
like New York and Los Angeles, where in certain areas they are
to:
inferior
in facilities and teaching quality to others, you
(
upgrade that. But I think there are things that you can do --
7
MR. CLARK: Governor, I hate to interrupt you in the
0
middle of an answer as complicated as this one, but we are out
9
of time. Thank you very much for being with us on ISSUES AND
10
ANSWERS.
MR. REAGAN: Thank you.
11
12
- -> -
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25