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The original documents are located in Box 107, folder "1965-66: (16) HR866 - Unidentified Flying Objects (2)" of the Edward Hutchinson Papers at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library. Copyright Notice The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) governs the making of photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. Edward Hutchinson donated to the University of Michigan his copyrights in all of his unpublished writings in National Archives collections. Works prepared by U.S. Government employees as part of their official duties are in the public domain. The copyrights to materials written by other individuals or organizations are presumed to remain with them. If you think any of the information displayed in the PDF is subject to a valid copyright claim, please contact the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library. Some items in this folder were not digitized because it contains copyrighted materials. Please contact the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library for access to these materials. William B. Weitzel 5709 Woodmont St. Pittsburgh, Pa. 15217 Honorable Edward Hutchinson House of Representatives Washington, D. C. HED JUL 8 1968 BOOK RATE REC'D JUL 8 1966 THE P-13 UFO Pennsylvania Unit #1, Pittsburgh Investigative Subcommittee National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena Summary Report on April 17, 1966 UFO "Chase" from Portage County, Chio, into Conway, Pennsylvania William B. Weitzel, Investigator June 28, 1966 NOTE: Materials contained herein, with the exception of newspaper articles or newswire quotations, are CONFIDENTIAL and for release to the public only by express permission of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP). CONTENTS PREFACE: PORTAGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S INVESTIGATION -- Dale Spaur's original report INTRODUCTION AND CONCLUSION THE CHASE Section map of Portage County, Ohio; route of initial phase Section map of Ohio - Pennsylvania; total route Narrative -- "THE CHASE" Section map of Economy Borough, Pa.; terminal phase Log from base radio station, Columbiana County, Ohio, Sheriff's Office Log from Federal Aviation Agency, Greater Pittsburgh Airport TESTIMONY Explanation of numbered drawings Spaur-Neff drawings, and summary statements; the P-13 chase Neff interview, partial transcript; the P-13 chase Huston statement and drawing; interception of P-13 chase Huston interview, complete transcript (second interview) Wilson statement; radio traffic on chase Cramer statement; radio traffic on chase Cramer interview, partial transcript Brothers interview, partial transcript; attempt at participation Panzanella statement and drawing; sighting terminus, USAF report Panzanella interview, partial transcript (first interview) Kwiatanowski statement and drawing; UFO chasing jets Johnson-Esterly statement and drawing; jets chasing UFO Whinnery-Cramer statement; apparent reception of pilot's radio report on UFO Whinnery interview, partial transcript NOTES ON SIGHTING TERMINUS Comments by David Webb on Venus-Moon-UFO positions DISCUSSION OF JET/RADAR INVOLVEMENT SUMMARY OF INITIAL PHASE OF INVESTIGATION SPAUR'S REACTION TO BLUE BOOK CONCLUSION THE BUCHERT PHOTOGRAPHS Notes on Buchert sighting Densitometric analysis of film Enlargement (x12) of UFO-marks area Letter from Major Quintanilla to Chief Buchert; W-P analysis Yokum statement on film handling, Maj. Quintanilla's phone calls Buchert certification of film's safe handling by NICAP DISCUSSION OF THE ROLE OF PROJECT BLUE BOOK IN THE p-13 SIGHTING THE MAY 10, 1966 QUINTANILLA HEARING Notes on certification document -- Spaur's release Certification of Major Quintanilla's non-objection to tape recording Quintanilla hearing, partial transcript Weitzel -- Quintanilla, May 17, 1966 letter of inquiry CONTENTS (cont.) CONGRESSIONAL COMMUNICATIONS Note on Correspondence and News Articles W -- Stanton, April 23: comments on "Echo-Venus" explanation W -- Stanton, May 6: follow up on Cong. Stanton's reply (NICAP office, DC) W - Stanton, May 11: report on Blue Book investigation w - Stanton, May 17: further report, transcript W -- Ayers, Bates, Ford, Fulton, McCormack, Rivers, May 17: on correspondence Ford -- W, May 23: action already taken with Cong. Stanton Stanton -- W, June 8: acknowledgement of tape recording Stanton -- Clapp, June 8: ref. her articles, public concern Fulton -- W, June 9: referred to Pennsylvania Delegation W -- Stanton, June 12: Blue Book's second answer, request forward query Stanton -- W, June 16: request granted NEWS ITEMS 4/18 UFO Chased into County 4/19 'Blue Book' Won't Visit County 4/23 Deputies Saw Venus, Not UFO, Air_Force Says 4/27 NICAP Hits AF UFO Investigation 4/27 Stanton Joins in Push For Checking 'Saucer' Checkers 5/3 Judge Cook Requests Air Force UFO Probe 5/5 AF Should Check UFO's - Stanton 5/7 (AF Admits 'Error') (promises investigation) 5/11 Still Venus to Air Force: Blue Book Investigator Doesn't Change His Mind 5/11 NICAP Prober Raps Air Force 5/12 Judge Cook Raps UFO Probe 5/25 (AF Explains UFO's As 'Natural' to Stanton) 5/25 (Stanton Calls for Expansion of Blue Book) 5/26 (Judge Cook Raps AF UFO Probe) NEWS ITEMS continued: Interview of Major Quintanilla 6/6 From Sign to Grudge to Blue Book 6/7 Socorro Sighting Stumps Blue Book 6/8 "Misinterpretation" Blamed For Many 'Saucer' Sightings 6/9 Temperature Inversions Can Confuse Inexperienced Radar Operators 6/10 Project Blue Book -- An Effective American Defense Tool or Just an Image? While on patrol S R 224, Deputy D. F. Spaur and Mounted Deputy Neff spotted a UFO about 50 feet off the ground over a heavily wooded area. This vehicle or object could and did move in any direction. I advised my sergeant, H. Shoenfelt, of what I had observed, having no camera of my own. The sergeant advised that I keep this (?) under observation and pursue same until we could contact a unit with a camera. The (?) was about 35 to 45 feet across the bottom and about 24 feet high. The (?) was very bright. The (?) seemed suspended on a beam of light. The only sound that could be heard was a faint humming. This might have come from a power line. I was shook up at this time. We observed the vehicle or (?) go straight up to about 200 feet and start east. we followed this craft or (?). It moved upward to about 500 feet and increased its speed to about 80 mph ground speed. we followed the object. The sergeant advised if possible to stay with this (?). There was not much traffic so I stayed with the (?). It increased its speed to 103 mph ground speed. The vehicle never made any attempt to lose us or to make any change of direction. we followed the (?) to just outside of Pittsburgh, Pa. We were about out of fuel as we spotted a Conway, Pa. Police Department car. After advising him of what we were chasing, he radioed his station. They contacted the airport. I got five gallons of fuel from this department and returned to my station. Signed: Dale F. Spaur, #15 April 17, 1966 PORTAGE COUNTY SHERIFF INVESTIGATION REPORT INTRODUCTION, AND CONCLUSION This report documents the April 17, 1966 pursuit of an unidentified flying object from Portage County, Chio, to Conway, Pennsylvania. The event caught world-wide attention, United States Congressional interest, and the normal outpourings of the public's expressions of curiosity, skepticism, ridicule, sympathy, indignation, resignation, and (not exactly an "outpouring") apathy, which accompany UFO sightings. The role of the United States Air Force's "Project Blue Book," charged with the responsibility of investigation and evaluation of UFO reports, was publicized to an unusual degree, and a substantial portion of this report documents that as well. The reader is cautioned to keep in mind the possible differences, or non-identity, among the unidentified flying objects mentioned herein. Paradoxically, it is easy to confuse mutual unidentifiability as a common trait, and identify two unidentified items. There are at least four sightings involved in the brief (1₂ hour) April 17 chase, and it may be that they are all due to different objects. It may also be that they are all due to conventional objects and natural phenomena of various (or of the same) sorts. All sorts of things "may be." NICAP's position on this event is that a solid, unconventional, perhaps extraterrestrially designed, object was chased. The Air Force's position, based on Project Blue Book's conclusion, is that the observation(s) were of Echo and Venus. The report is incomplete. Investigative leads are still being followed up, and the controversy over the Air Force's conclusion is still alive. The account of the chase, transcripts of testimony, and written documents are intended to supplement each other; economy of time and materials forbade extension. Transcripts contained herein are all from tape recordings made in the presence of, and with the permission of, those being interviewed or those interviewing ("or" should be "and"). A few notes of gratitude are appropriate -- Carol Clapp, through her articles in the Ravenna (Ohio) Record-Courier (nearly thirty) kept Spaur's and Neff's fellow citizens not only informed, but concerned. Tom Schley, reporter with the Beaver (Pennsylvania) County, Times, besides his usual fine articles, assisted with much of the investigative work I could not do, including interviews and leads. Sheriff Ross Dustman, Portage County, Ohio, made his office's facilities available for my work there. Congressman William Stanton and Common Pleas Court Judge Robert Cook were decisive in getting much, that strongly needed to be, accomplished. Since I have precluded a legitimate conclusion with my note on incompleteness, I will only say that, what has been done in this investigation, should never have had to have been done in the first place. I hope the materials in this report will help a little to make more of the same, less necessary. William Weitzel Pennsylvania Unit #1 NICAP T. River T-223 T-294 VAUGHN Eagle T-256 Garrettsville reek WADSWORTH T-295 T-247 COLLINS PARKMAN T-297 T-308 NITE T-275 SHUSTRICK RACK ERIE RIGHTS T-292 T-292 FROST 275 Mantua PIERCE 208 T-254 253 297 NEWEL LEDGE Hiram Station SHANK 240 T-272 HAN KEE 224 T-237 SILICA SAND T-221 220 T-220 225 235 DUDLE T-221 JODELL ASBURY UR STAMM 299 T-227 T-233 T-234 T-251 FRASIER T-252 251 197 WERGER Mahoning PECK 219 219 T-233 COLTON STREETER HEWINS 219 167 STANLEY T-236 82 T-215 T-223 700 T-232 TURNPIKE 222 88 T-232 225 BRYANT 299 239 T-308 GORHAM 80 T-231 226 Windham I A E S V L Freedom 303 Shalersvill I Drakesburg 303 T-217 W 235 -T-236 e N D H A M S.R. 700 210 ENDS HERE F R E E 225 D O M R.R. T-249 82 167 223 211 T-205 CHOLS SLAGLE U WORK T-215 WEBB T-216 BABCOCK T-218 T-218 LIMERIDGE Eagle 204 T-215 Creek Creek a GRAY WIGLE 44 NICODEMUS COOLEY 222 KING PORTAGE COUNTY B 164 T-214 Freedc 164 T-176 = 1mile LAKE ROCKWELL VAIR 2 5 PECK T-217 165 167 O I 2 3 4 5 6 M 5 88 COMB Mantaa SCALE OF MILES T-185 177 - L AND 63 168 18 miles MINYOUNG T-194 U E N N HAR 627 177 LESTOWN FALLS T-192 WALL MC LAIN jurg IN S 5 T-194 MC MULLEN R RIDDLE T-188 X RAVENNA any Eal-tizz UFO POSITION T-161 AT "1" 1-150 31 14 Mahoning T 148 HAYES Compbellsport Pritchard Crystal 120 Loke 44 T-100) ATC. 89 89 LAKE HATTRICK T-III ANDY Y Muzzy TRACK T-119 Lake T-112 BOOTH 73 9 T-99 CAMP T-112 129 New Milford Roofstown 18 Sta. 80S T H13 Rootstown Rte. 224 nond 73 18 T-103 T S T O W T-108 N 50 S.R.183 D ENDS1 E I HERE n R A T-73 T-102 BILTZ RIGHTS S.R. 225 T-104 MILFORD ENDS HERE JONES 18 135 BOWER 14 T-54 T-127 HENDERSON N T-117 T 117 KLINE 801-1, SANFORD GIDDINGS 225 NEW Industry 54 T-131 136 183 Davis MAHONING 31 82 T-121 73 19 72 U CLARK T-W6 31 108 Kale R.R. Outlet T-116 6 116 50 55 Yale 55 oyd 55 WILKES YALE T-44 PENNA 72 BASSETT 627 INDUSTRY N.Y.C. O C STROUP 71 35 71 OLPH T-45 T-45 MOTTOWN T-45 TAYLOR T-51 T-51 75 BONNER T-40 h HARTVILLE BUCKMAN MOFF Loke 31 224 Randolph PORTER 68 4. (NOTMAN) C 87 , I A T E R Deerfield Deerfield 8 7-27 ALEXANDER T-27 ofer - 73 87 Sta 54 A N P H Atwater Center E R E D 7 224 14 MATTI D E F T-28 & EBERLY Fill T-30 Compress T35 T-36 R.R. 5 6 Berlin Reservoir 44 T-32 WAT T-59 DIBBLE I33 1 T-33 T-56 60 T-53 T-56 T-56 HORNING T-53 UNGER VIRGINIA 4 29 LAUBERT 29 T-48 183 BANDY Alt 225 T-58 & X WAGNER T58 BOUNDARY T-30 ALBERT T-34 54 North Benton Sta. 31 CONNECTICUT T-49 T-49 T-49 RESERVE Champion Harmon I - Mantua Nelson Dom 10 0 Jackson Pearl 10 Cork Dom(18) Con Northlield Buchert 700 Garrettsville 122 5 Mantua 12 Sharpsville 173 AKRON Phalanx Warren INTEREN NO 22 Vienna 12 Charleston Wesley BC Brookfield 14 6 Clinton 6 8 Mercer 6 Streetsboro 5 5 I Windham Braceville Leavittsburg 170 Sharon 8 6 Coalburg 1 16 Il a Twin WARREN 45 Niles McKinley Masury 80 44 10 208 Barkeyville Kundalla Lakes 8 5 NO 14 Hts. W." Middlesex Grove City 7 Metropoliton Park = Girlard 62 14 80 318 Lordsto Mem 158) 6 13 Earlville Black Horse Ravenna Newton Stow 16 Falls 534 McDonald Kent 10 19 Lond Harrisville 10 Dom Wayland Minera Hubbard 17 173 338 Silyer Lake 17 627 Pulaski Leesbu 2 Cuyahoga Munroe 3 Camphellsport Craig Ridge Dam Youngstown New 6 Forestville Boyers Falls 80 6 Beach Lake North Austintown Wickhife 208 Wilmington Falls Million JACK son 16 15 154 7 Liberty 108 New 308 Cauley 21 18 106 Campbell Bedford N. 7Rootstown Diamond .ES. TOWN Slippery Rock 6 Washingto NTERCH. NO. 15 Struthers 422 18 Akron 5 7 Dam 5 183 10 3 173 62 625 138 Berlin 14 Lowellville 45 Harlansburg W M Rand a Center Canfield 3TH Poland 9 Sundbury 9 6 108 c 224 528) Atwater . 807 Boardman Hooker Suffield Deerfield 10 11 4 680 Edinburg New Castle 79 138) Barbertoncakem Bessemer Woodwort P1 5 New 8 Baltimore North 534 Hickory INTERCH Limaville 12 317) E. 11 Benton Cors 62511 14 NO. New EASTGATE New Castle Isle Boydstown 8 McConnells 15 Portag North Union wn Marlboro Lakes 225 Middletow 4 E. East Gosher I BARRIER Mill Unionville 11 5 A Lima Linerty 1 308 38) stown Portage 318 Hartville, 170 Alliance 17(108 16% Moravia Energy Portersville Green of State Alliance Beloit New (164)Springfield ~ 15) (14A) 6 Greenfo GATEWAY 5 3 Lake town(43 Alban, TOLL BARRIER Prospect 422 Greensburg 10 Salem 4 Clinton Sebring Garf N NO. Ellwood 191 15 62 Wampum 488) 528 N. Cairo lumbiana(165) City . May Middle 6 Westville Damascus Petersburg Canton Harrisburg . Leetonia 170 Middle branch 15 Frankin 22 Lancaster 9 Butler 2 Square Canal Maximo 183 80 Koppel Ellport x 18 Fulton 12 12 Hills 77 North 10 hope Middleton 79 Dates Georgetow Winona Longs Darlingto BEAVER 65 Conoquen ssing McKinley Louisville Freeburg Homeworth Guilford Lake East 45. Palestine o VALLEY 10 Massillon TombState State Fairfield East New 164 517 Signal Negley INTERCH Park 20 NO. W Zelienopli Mem . Canton 72 Alexander 154 8 172) (168) 9 Mayland Evans City Hanr Paris 13 - Lisbon 15 Rogers 12(08) 5 East Perry Hts 5. 5 Greenville 30 16 East 14 25) 12 30 Elkton Canton Robertsville Rochester 10 Clarkson 10 Beaver Falls Unionville 19 15 State N 528 84 Hospital Hanoverton 170 Gulf. AGlade Mills 2 o Was Rich- Mapleton 11 New Brighton 15 o # " 9 ville Kensingto Navarre Pekin Morgan, Surrender W. Point 13(43) at Beaver "Rochester" Knob North 44 Minerva 644 Monument Creek 1280 10 Oneida 518 Park17 Beaver Industry 856 Malvernio 183 (518) PERRY HIGHWAY Milliont Gauard Ohioville TERCH. For detailed Tc Brewster Justo 77 5 Monaca Freedom NO. 3 Metropolitan F East 45 Smiths(168) Industry 2 Beach Sparta UFO ROUTE Conway your Gull asgow 145 3r. 20 18) idale City Bolivar vn Liverpool Baden 15 BUTLER VALI Midland Wexford INTERCH BR 17 4 NO. Fort Lourens = Chester 14 19 acdyville 3 State Mém Actual Assumed Vellsville Zoar Creek Newell Aliquippa Ambridge 79 8 8 Strasburg Zoor - State (66) 21" 26 Allison Park 20 ALLEGHENY Village Mineral 54 Carroliton Forest Tomlinson 30 Leetsdale VALLEY Wattsville State Mem City Run State 279 12 Duncee Perrysville INTERCH. NO. Somerdale McCook House Irondale Park Sewickley Harmarville 5 State Mem (524) 168 15 Hammondsville New imberiano Harshaville Port 32(51 Parral ville West Glenshaw /Dom Dom It New Deliroy 332 3(213) Homer. b Carnot Avalon View Sharpsburg Harlem Springs Bergholz New Somerset Stratton Pughtown New 8 Dam 21 20 Roccoon Clinton Corappolis Etna Mill- Shanesville 26 Empire New Cumberland Creek Philadelphia Sherrodsville Muskingum 9 State Pork McKees Rocks valer 17 Pittsl 164 C Sugarcreek Dam Jefferson Loke Knoxville Frankfort 27 Amsterdan Wolf Run State Park Loronto) Sprs. osswell 20 Toronto 18 10 Lamartine 20 Imperial Schoenbrunn Village Jeddo 64 Ragersville State Mem Barnhill Leesville 332) East Island Creek Weirton Florence 2 15 6 Tyre Homestead Mun Hagerstown Scio Springfield Bowerston Fairfield Richmond Stone Custer - 10 Carnegie 10 State 43 Bormont 250 Dennison (151) # Mem (646 12 22 Conotton Dom 10 ALT 19 Wathwricht Germano Annapolis, Paris Brentwood Tuscarawas Scio New Alikanal 22 Burgettstown Bridgeville Duques Stone Creek Philadelphia Road 151 Jewett 6 Winter Cadiz 646 Jet Slovan McDonald Cast Shannon Uhrichs Broadacred vill Cuddy 12 19 Seventeen Dom Unionport 13 6 Fort ville Steuben Mon 188 o 6 27A 12 Venice 18 © Steubenville Bethel 10 Gnadenhutten Tappar 11 151 Quakers Knob EI. 1420 5 Bakersville 79 o Port Washington State Mem 22 Welf Stillwater 9 Mingo Jct 24 Park 51 Goodenhutten Blooming dale Follansbee 22 12 Deersville 22 Georges Ru o 23 East Woodrow 980 Library Hickory Devils 250 Cadiz Parlett Avella 23 151 Den 258 Wellsburg Gilmore 1/16 Tippecanoe Cadi Rea Canonsburg Brilliant W Finieyville Elrama Isleta's Dam Unionvale Smithfield , York Middletown 18 23 ndependence 837) New 10 Newcomerstown West Rush Buffalo 9 Mile ette 16 Adena RunO McKinleyville 15 Eagle vill Chester 9) Short . Connor Beech 231 Creek Ray- bottom Bethany 331 Peoli 258 342 Dillonvale E. Washington 11 Moni 7 19 Moorefield Short Dom 88) 331 Wolfdale Harrisville Mt. 18 Freeport Creek Washington Eightyfour 6 Piedmont Pleasant Birds Guarrite New Athens Smyrna Holloway 25 Tiltonsville 10 Lincoln Hill . 2 20 eboratory 13 70, Run 20 Birmingham Flushing 149 W. Liberty Yorkville Charleroi Quaker Meeting 17 Londonder State Mem Clinton 3(18) Lemoyne Florence 13 541 Kennon House Bentleyville Speers Twin Kimpunon 21 Maynard Colerain Dom Claysville La Gonda 2.12 9 Glyde 401 3(917) laters 20 Lafferty Barton 12 7 Allenp Chobs 33 Martins Fy. 13/40 Mt Wheeler Antrim 9 9 Fair Et. 1523 Cokeburg 440 11 Winterset Indian Belmont Loke point Bannock 14 Bridgep Vheeling Valle Grove 19 Scenery Hill 12 State Res California in Camp Merristown 21 Beallsville Fairview 231 70 Prosperity 21 Middlebour 40 (Clairsv Triadelphia Amity Centerville Hendrysburg 40 4 13 Center 6 Belmont 10 2 Stewarts-Neffs 214) Bethlehem E.Finley Vestaburg 7 6 8 70 ville Oid 13 Old Concord ambridge Lamira Varnock Bellaire Benwood 79 Millsboro Alliso: Washington 6/ Speidel Casse bi Bethesda Glencoe McMechen 88) Key 12 Sherrard Rufforeek Republic Quaker Tacoma Barnesville Shadyside Dom 13 Nineveh Salesville = Concord esville Lore City Dry Tavern Gitison Eidon 15 City 655 26 Jacobsburg GlenDale Robins VA. PA. Graysville 12 Sycamore 10 Buckeyev (66) Limestone 5 313 513 9) Businessburg 6 188 11 Senecavil 148 Armstrong The 21 26 Waynesburg Carmichaels # Dom Mills Switzerland Moundsville Morrisville Khedive Claysville Derwen 25 of Ohio 2 8 Temperance Rutan 4 Blue Buffalo Somerton 13 Batesville ville Pleasant Alledonia 48 27 McKenfrey 6 Opperman City 145 Rocklick 9 Rogersville Paisley Holbrook 10 No. 25 77 Jerusalem Powhatan Pt. Beatty Knob 379 Malag Turkey Knob EL 1220 Loudenville 10 Ei. 1482 556 8 Calais Beallsville (O) Cameron 18) 218) Newtown 165 a ML Ephraim Ava 0 Miltonsburg Ozark 513 8 Woodlands 250 19 88 10 Dom 80%00' Spraggs 145 to Point Marion mile no Belle 31 Clarington 25 falley 147 East To Hundred. 18 miles To Blacksville, 5 miles To Morgantown. 19 miles To Summerfield Camerone 13 Woodsfield Denver F 18 9 18 & my Renrock Berne Lewisville 22 Caldwell 11 18 724 - 31 Olivegreen Sharon Fulda Stafford Larngs OHO Proctor 250 89 536 20 39 Littleton 145 Remersville 255 West 18 19 Hundred Rich Middle Hannibal( Valley Graysville Antioch TOLL BR. 563 Olive Knob Fork Keith 564 26) Duffy Mascow ( Dexter City New Martinsville 8 Mills 537 WAUNE Wileyville Macksburg Marr Sardis 32 kney 14 To Fairmont, 27 miles To Holbrook. 18 miles OHIC Crooked 16 Harriettsville Dam Wheat Tree 9 15 Dungannon HElba Germantown Rinard Paden 11 145 Mills 10 City 20 76 Fly Coal Run Daizell Bloomfield NAT'L Sistersville © Pine Grove Warner Lower Salem Reader MICH Wingett 7 18 Beve 4 Lowell Run o Jacksonburg Waterford New Matamoras 11 20 6 THE CHASE (NOTE: Details in this account are taken from about sixty hours of testimony, nearly all of it tape-recorded and/or in signed documents. Some of this material is reproduced in this Report.) Deputy Sheriff Dale F. Spaur's week had been an ordinary one, except that for two days before April 17, he had taken a brief vacation from his extra job, in construction work, to enjoy some fishing and extra sleep, more than his usual six hour per day average. Otherwise, it was a normal schedule of police work. On the evening of the 16th, he had a couple of glasses of a beer-tomato juice mixture, a dinner of steak and eggs, took a 2-hour nap, awoke, and had two cups of coffee before reporting for duty at midnight, at the Portage County Sheriff's Office in Ravenna, Ohio. He was immediately dispatched to check a prowler complaint; with the assistance of police from Mogadore, in southwest Portage County. Nothing was found. He received a call to pick up Wilbur Neff at the station. "Barney" Neff is a local Thermo-King mechanic who rides with regular Deputy Sheriffs when he has an opportunity, as a Mounted Deputy. Spaur returned to the station, from whence he and Neff were dispatched to answer a call about a car shearing a utility pole near Atwater Center, on Rte. 183. They had the driver sent to a hospital, had the car towed, and an Ohio Edison man came to fix the pole. The deputies drove to Deerfield to get some coffee for the repairman; it was a brisk morning. At the Circle Pump in Deerfield, they assisted a motorist whose car had broken down, and arranged to have it towed. They returned with the coffee shortly before 5:00 AM EST, about 4:45. While they were talking with the Ohio Edison man, they listened to radio traffic between Portage and Summit counties, concerning a woman in Summit County, Mrs. Harry Hays, who reported a brightly lighted object "as big as a house" flying over her neighborhood, from Akron. The object was too low to be a plane, and too high for a street light, she said. Jokes were exchanged, over the radio among the radio operators and deputies Spaur and Neff, and with the repairman. Spaur had heard about "flying saucers" before, but did not take them seriously. The deputies left the scene of the accident and headed west on Rte. 224, to make out an accident report at the hospital. When they reached a point on 224 (marked on the Portage County map with arrows 1 and 2), they saw a car parked on the berm on the south side of the road. They turned around to investigate, and parked behind the car. It was a rusty '59 white Ford, apparently abandoned. (The owner was found later.) AS part of regular procedure, both men left their car, cruiser P-13, with the engine running, in case quick pursuit would be necessary. Neff waited by the front of the cruiser while Spaur advanced. Spaur looked over his right shoulder to check the surroundings. Through the trees atop a small hill next to the berm, he noticed a light moving. It was coming from the west, toward them. At first he was mildly surprised, thinking, "Well, that must be the UFO that's been talked about!" The light came closer, and he called Neff's attention to it. It grew larger, came near the trees, then rose and changed its course, coming over the trees, and moved over the road, right above where they were standing. It passed over the road to the north side (map position 2) (arrows are direction-vectors), where it stopped, fifty to a hundred feet up. Both Spaur and Neff were petrified with fear and astonishment. The object was too bright, a brilliant blue-white light "almost as bright as a flashbulb", to look at for more than a few moments; it made Spaur's eyes water; but the thing was at least forty five feet across, perfectly round, and it lit up the ground around the cruiser "as bright as high noon." When Spaur involuntarily looked away from the object to the ground, he noticed that neither his clothes nor the grass were burning. He had not consciously expected burning, but he noticed its absence. After a short time, both men, without saying a word, simultaneously entered the cruiser as quickly as they could. THE CHASE (two) The time was 5:07 AM EST. In Mantua Village, 18 miles northwest of P-13, Chief of Police Gerald Buchert, on patrol just outside of town to the south, on Rte. 44, had been hearing the radio traffic on the UFO seen in Summit County, and happened to see a bright light in the sky to the southeast. At first he thought it was a star, but it was much brighter than the other stars in the dawn sky, and did not twinkle. It was to the right of the moon, and somewhat above it. He watched for a minute or two, but the object did not go anywhere. Thinking this might be the reported UFO, he drove to his home and awakened his wife, to observe it with him. While they watched, the object moved left and right, and up and down above and below nearby phone wires. From his front yard, it appeared farther away from the moon, still to the right, than when he had first seen it. When it moved left or right, it appeared like two saucers facing each other, and the forward-moving edge tilted, in attitude, upward. When it was stopped, or moving up or down, it appeared to be spherical. His wife described it as a sphere with a ring around it, like Saturn, when it moved left or right. No other features were visible, and it was just big enough to make out those mentioned. Buchert had with him a Brownie Starmite camera, used in his police work. He. took three pictures of the object, one of it alone, one with the moon in the framing area, and one with a nearby telephone pole in the area. He telephoned a report into the Sheriff's Office; by this time there was excited talk on the car radio about Spaur and Neff chasing something. Having made his report, Chief Buchert returned to his regular duties. The object had not gone away. His wife stopped watching it. The time was about 5:20 AM. Back to 5:07 -- "This thing could go, like I said before, it could change its angle, and then it would move foreward with the front tilted downward, and this is why we pursued it, so no one would say we'd eaten too many cookies at the wrong time, or something. The light didn't have any effect on us; of course, your adrenalin comes up pretty good. I started sweating; I didn't know what was going to happen. It didn't harm either myself or my partner. Of course, we made a dash for the car. I don't know what we were gonna do once we got in it. I radioed the desk. This is when the sergeant asked us if we could observe the vehicle; I told him we could, very well. We watched it climb; we turned everything off in the car completely. There was sort of a whisper behind a humming noise, which seemed to come from the object. This thing went straight up to about 250 or 400 feet and came back to the south side of the highway, directly overhead.' (Spaur 4/17) The sergeant, H. Shoenfelt, instructed Spaur to keep the UFO under observation until a camera car could arrive. While they watched, the object moved from directly overhead to a point just over the center of the road, about 150 feet ahead, and "checked" its travel, hovering perfectly still. Spaur started the car down the road toward it. He could see now that it was from 18 to 24 feet thick, top to bottom. It was rounded on the bottom; the top could be seen dimly silouetted against the sky. The bottom and edges were a brilliant blue white color, and the road was illuminated underneath the object. Spaur had noticed that when it elevated, the humming noise had gone up in pitch, and the brightness had increased. When the UFO moved from the south side of the road, over them, to its center at a distance, the spot of light on the ground seemed thrown behind it, and the object tilted down in its forward direction of travel. THE CHASE (three) (See map position 3) As the men moved forward in P-13, the UFO rose to about 500 feet and receded from them slowly. They sped up. The UFO sped up. This jerky acceleration was repeated several times until, within about a mile, they were traveling about 80 mph, still behind the object. Deputy Sheriff Robert Wilson, Radio Operator, thinking this would be a good opportunity to see whether flying saucers were weather balloons, suggested Spaur use his .44 Magnum; he declined. Sgt. Shoenfelt commented, somewhat lightly, that it would be well not to "agitate" the object. Spaur's seriousness was quickly communicated to the men in the station, however, and they were all becoming quite excited. Wilson turned on the intercom so those at distant points within the station could hear his traffic. When P-13 got to Rte. 183, Spaur had to make a quick turn; he chose to go south. The object stopped, just off 224, over a field (4). When Spaur turned back on 224, about a mile further, he and Neff watched the object come south, cross the road, and make a turn to the east about a hundred yards from the road. It was still illuminating the ground. Orville Scarry, Radio Operator of the Sheriff's Office in the Columbiana County Jail in Lisbon, Chio, heard Spaur say the UFO was lighting the road so well that he wouldn' have needed headlights; when it passed over a construction site near Atwater Center, it lit up a large crane. It maintained its distance from the road until P-13 neared Berlin Reservoir; then it rose again, to nearly a thousand feet, and crossed the road to the north, before the twist, at the reservoir. (See 7, 8.) It remained due north for a few minutes; Spaur could see it out his left window as they headed due east; then it crossed the road again to the south, before they reached Canfield (9, 10). (It should be emphasized that both men were well aware of the phenomenon of relative motion, due to observer orientation changes, of distant objects; they mentioned this, as well, in their testimony.) The UFO was now moving at an altitude of about 1000 feet, and Spaur's ground speed was nearly 100 mph. Fortunately, the road was clear, with hardly any traffic at this time of morning. Unfortunately, however, due to the necessity for close attention to the requirements of the pursuit, and the excitement of those in radio stations monitoring their position calls, a mixup occurred which hampered acquiring photographic evidence. Both Ravenna and Salem, Ohio radio operators pointed out that, when Spaur said he was on Rte. 14 (same here as 224) or "on 14 crossing 534," they interpreted this to mean Rte. 14A, which was once Rte. 14. 534 crosses both roads; 14A, near Salem. Those who did try to intercept or join in the pursuit, or use cameras, were frustrated. The camera car sent by Portage County had been outdistanced when P-13 reached Mahoning County (Berlin Reservoir). Deputy Sheriff Dave Brothers of Columbiana County was waiting outside of Salem on 14A; when he heard Spaur, or Neff, say they were at Canfield, he realized what had happened, and tried to reach a better vantage point by driving east on 14A, but it was too late. When P-13 reached Canfield, the UFO was moving farther and farther south, still running east, to their right. Neff, who is familiar with the roads in that area, had Spaur turn right onto a traffic are that bypasses Canfield. When they did this, the UFO kept on going a bit, over the road ahead of them (11); then, as they proceeded south, it changed its course and came back ahead of them (12), to the south, before the bypass actually began its curve. They followed the road until they could turn south again, and headed due south down 14-46, with the UFO ahead. of them to the south. THE CHASE (four) The deputies noted, and broadcast, that when they had to slow down for traffic lights, or other encumbrances, the UFO would slow also, as if to wait for them. This happened several times before the end of the chase, except near Rochester, when it went over a hill, but even then, and particularly then, when they emerged from obscuring objects, it had dropped and was hovering, "in wait." The deputies, mainly Spaur, were getting worried now. Orville Scarry heard their concern over no one else corroborating their observations, lest they be thought lying. "Boy is this wierd," Robert Wilson noted as a frequently repeated comment. More details were becoming apparent, as the object was better seen by reflected daylight (the sun rose at 5:20), and its silhouette had better contrast with the sky. They noted a projection, about 18 feet long and a foot or so wide at its base on the trailing top portion of the object; this "antenna" tilted to the rear and tapered to a near point. They saw this chiefly when the UFO changed speed or direction. The top appeared dome-shaped, except, according to Spaur (Neff disagrees only with this feature of the UFO's description), for a sharp drop-off near the "antenna". The front top half was still brilliantly self-illuminated, and so was the top tip of the rear, but now they could see a satiny metallic finish to the rest of the top. Spaur turned off his radio once or twice to check for the humming noise; he still heard it. Neff kept his head close to the windshield, watching the UFO high above. As P-13 neared Columbiana, the UFO, getting distant, again changed its velocity, as if to keep with them; this was at the intersection of Rte. 165 (E-W) and Rte. 14-46. In Columbiana, Patrolman Jack Haines was searching for a camera. He acquired one, but the deputies had passed, with a near disaster. The UFO had turned left* onto (over) Rte. 14 where it goes left at a large intersection, of Rtes. 164 and 14A. When Spaur made a left turn, the cruiser hit gravel and nearly went off the road. Spaur is an excellent driver, however; he once raced cars, and has never (or had never, until April 17) lost in a pursuit. He negotiated the turn, and followed the UFO, which was going southeast now, over Rte. 14 toward Unity. East Palestine Patrolman Wayne Huston, in cruiser ov-1, got into radio contact with Spaur. He parked his car, engine running, by Rte. 14, north of East Palestine, and asked Spaur where to look. Spaur replied, "Look out your left window, and up." Huston was standing by his car, talking with the extension microphone (standard equipment). He looked up 14 to the northwest, and saw a bright light approaching. The light took on detail. When it flew straight overhead, from the northwest (300°), it was going so fast, and so high, he could not study it, but he saw a "partly melted ice cream cone" shape; flattened dome, self-illuminated, and brilliant cone underneath. The cone, however, seemed not to be solid, but more like a tapered light beam diffusing through smoke. The cone was bent to the rear, of the direction of travel. P-13 was just behind the object (on the ground). Huston watched them fly by, then jumped into his cruiser and took pursuit. It took several minutes to catch up. By this time, the chase had continued to Pennsylvania Rte. 51, and the road was heading downhill, toward distant hills. Huston asked his station to call the Pennsylvania State Police Barracks at Chippewa, which they did. The men had gotten out of range of Portage County radio, and calls were being relayed through Orville Scarry, in Lisbon. Scarry began logging the chase at 5:35, when P-13 was at the state line. There was no hope now of getting an Ohio cruiser to join the men. * About 100° THE CHASE (five) At the Chippewa, Pa. State Police Barracks, Trooper Antonio J. Taglienti, at 5:35, received a phone call with a number of requests: call the airport; find out if anything is on their radar; have interceptors sent up; assign a Pennsylvania car to assist. Trooper Taglienti called the airport: "Nothing on our radar -- only available planes too fast --- will try to get visual contact from other aircraft." He could hear the chase traffic over his telephone: "The thing is still above us." While he was trying to muster aid, he heard the cruisers roar by; he looked out the window, but saw nothing unusual. No cruisers were near enough to help. P-13 and OV-1 approached Brady's Run Park, a few miles out of Beaver, Pa. The UFO approached steep hills near the road. The road got quite narrow. A red Volkswagen came toward the park exit and hit a traffic light treadle. Three trucks were coming toward the intersection from the east, and two more loomed in front of the cruisers. Huston put on his siren. The light changed to red, the UFO went up to 2000 feet, passed over the hill, and dropped behind it, to their left. When P-13 and OV-1 got through the intersection, they thought they had probably lost the object, but they had a good deal of momentum left, and, hoping to see it on the other side of the hills, they continued down the narrow highway toward Rochester. Just past Fallston, they passed through a railroad underpass, and the road widened. Huston had been giving Spaur intense attention, instructing him as to turns coming up. As they got out in. the open, they spotted the object (14) near Rochester. Huston was the first to notice it; Spaur had been watching him in his rear view mirror, and saw OV-1 nose down suddenly. "There it is!" Huston cried. Spaur looked ahead and saw the object directly ahead, hovering apparently still, over the highway. It had come down to a few hundred feet and, as before, appeared to be waiting for them. Spaur noticed that its apparent size was larger than that of his rear view mirror. As they approached it, the object went straight up rapidly to about a thousand feet, then took off horizontally, ahead of them. They followed it into Freedom and towards Conway. Rte. 51 had changed to 65. The object diminished in size. Just before it took off horizontally, Huston caught sight of a projection on the top, on the right side. (NOTE: This would be consistent with earlier descriptions of the projection "to the rear", considering their speed, and that the highway turns left into Rochester, about a mile after the Fallston underpass.) Spaur was receiving calls from Portage County, relayed through Lisbon, to return to base. He was running low on fuel, and his carburetor mixture was not rich enough at high speeds ("sucking air"). He said he would turn around. By this time they were approaching Conway. Spaur saw a police cruiser parked across the highway, up ahead. Conway Policeman Frank Panzanella had been heading home, off duty, when (about 5:40) he saw what he thought was a burning airplane heading toward him, atop a hill next to Rte. 65. He drove downhill to escape a collision. The object was coming in his direction, from the southwest. AS he reached the bottom of the hill and turned left, he saw, from his left window, a large, glowing object move across his field of view from the west, away from him, but headed south. It appeared to be about 35 feet across, looked something like a bisected football, and near the rear rim of the oval bottom, had several dark-circled light areas. A projection went off the object, away from him, at its rear. It might have been tilted, with a bottom view toward him, but it didn't make much sense to him. He drove to an Atlantic service station next to Rte. 65 and parked his car. When he got out, he saw the object move out over the Northern Lights Shopping Center, east of him. THE CHASE (six) The object appeared to Panzanella to be about an inch across at arm's length. He moved to the southeast corner of the station to get a closer look. Just then P-13 and OV-1 pulled up beside his car. The officers got out and asked if Panzanella had seen the object. "What object," he replied; it had seemed so strange to him he was reluctant to admit seeing it. When they told him they had chased it in from Chio, he called John Beighey, Rochester Police Radio Operator, and told him to call the airport. The four men stood and watched the object withdraw horizontally, directly away from them, until it was a dot, from 1/16" to 1/4" arm's length apparent size. It hovered. Spaur heard something on the radio about aircraft being scrambled. The object moved rapidly upwards until it was level with the crescent moon, off to its right. A bright spot, which the occupants of P-13 had noticed next to the concave portion of the crescent, for some time, was till there. Panzanella stood by his car, talking with Beighey. He could not see the moon. At its first position, the UFO seemed about a thousand feet up. Actual angular elevation was around 11° from the horizon. After its first elevation, it appeared about 3,000 feet high. It remained motionless in this position while a jet commercial airliner flew underneath. Panzanella told this to Beighey, who relayed it to the airport. (NOTE: Somewhere along the line, this got reversed; in the FAA log, the airliner is above the UFO.) Then the observers saw what seemed to be jet vapor trails or contrails, arcing from the west or northwest, from the left of the object, somewhat towards it. A voice on Panzanella's radio announced that jets were being scrambled. The object shot straight up and disappeared. Whether it disappeared by dimming out, diminishing, or what, is not quite clear. Panzanella had been trying to get other cruisers on his frequency to see the jets and/or the object. After it went out of sight, Spaur decided to try to make it to Unity, where Huston could refuel him. The three men left. Panzanella waited to see if the object would return. As P-13 and OV-1 pulled away, Panzanella got a call from Beighey, instructing him to have everyone call 264-5000 (USAFR, Greater Pittsburgh Airport). Panzanella drove after the Ohio officers with his pursuit light on, and caught up to them about three minutes after they left, in Freedom. As he approached them, he heard a fading voice on his radio -- Henry Kwaitanowski, an Economy Borough Patrolman. "Hey, Frank, I saw two jets Kwaitanowski was standing by his cruiser, about three miles from Conway, roughly southeast. He had been looking for jets, and trying to raise Panzanella on the radio, but the traffic was largely between Panzanella and Beighey at that time. Then Kwaitanowski saw two jets flying toward the sunrise, away from him, and behind them, a shiny, football-shaped object, keeping its distance, about the same size as the jets. He observed this for two or three minutes, then called Panzanella, The beginning of Kwaitanowski's observation seems close to the end of Panzanella's. Huston and P-13 drove to the Rochester Police Station, where Spaur called the number at GPA. He was interviewed briefly by "same colonel" who hung up abruptly after what seemed to Spaur a perfunetory interrogation, filled with suggestions for comparisons of the UFO with familiar objects. The officer promised to forward the information to Wright-Patterson. (NOTE: Five hours later the UFO project office at the USAFR was unaware of the report.) No one else was interviewed. Neff, Spaur and Huston went with Panzanella to get Spaur refueled, then Spaur and Neff went back to Unity with Huston. There they talked briefly with Dave Brothers, the Deputy Sheriff who had tried unsuccessfully to intercept them earlier. As they drove back, they noticed several police cruisers parked at intersections, watching them. THE CHASE (seven) When Spaur and Neff returned to Ravenna, they and their cruiser were checked for radioactivity with a Geiger counter, by the Fire Chief and a Civil Defense official. Nothing unusual was found. The original site (of first sighting) was not checked. Buchert's film was developed at the photographic laboratory in the Court House, and four prints were made. By this time, the news had hit the national press and broadcast media, which picked up the story by monitoring the police radio traffic. Neff preferred to keep in seclusion from reporters, which kept him from Spaur's exhausting experience of having incessant interviews. Unfortunately, the news media concentrated largely on Spaur; with the exception of the Record Courier and the Beaver County Times, most papers and broadcasts, as time passed, failed to emphasize the corroboration from the other officers involved. A further distortion resulted from a hasty identification of Chief Buchert's pictures with the P-13 sighting. Little note was made of what seemed to the deputies the chief aspect of the event: an extensive instance of police cooperation crossing local boundaries. Had they been pursuing a bank robber, this aspect may have been more clearly seen. One event that occurred during the chase deserves particularly close attention, and for that reason has been postponed until now: the apparent reception of a jet pilot's radio transmission, reporting a close observation of the P-13 UFO. When P-13 was traveling down Rte. 14-224, near Canfield, two patrolmen listening to the Salem, Chio, police radio, decided to leave the station to watch for the UFO's arrival in Salem; the report, "we're crossing 534," was interpreted to mean 534's intersection of 14A, instead of 14, near that town. The patrolmen, Lonnie Johnson and Ray Esterly, expected to see the object come in from the northwest; but while they were looking, they saw a jet plane in the distance, at a small angle from the horizon, and then noticed an object in front of the aircraft. The jet was flying in a north-south direction, in the east. They watched the jet "pursue" the object, which looked like a bright ball, five times the size of the jet behind it, in level flight. Two more jets arced in from behind the first one. This sighting lasted a little over a minute, as they remembered; they radioed in what they were observing, about 5:30. Just after getting this report, the Radio Operator, Jack Cramer, and Police Lieutenant Richard Whinnery heard an unidentified voice break in on the regular traffic (the voice was louder than normal, and unrecognizable): "I'm going down to take a look at it. I'm right above it. ... It's about forty five feet across, and it's trailing something." This transmission, from an as yet unidentified source, was received just five minutes before Orville Scarry, Radio Operator in Lisbon, logged the deputies crossing the state line. This would put them, at the time of the "voice", just east of the patrolmen watching from Salem. The UFO in this case, however, seems to have been a different one: it was larger and higher than the one P-13 was following. (See statement, by Officers Johnson and Esterly, and their drawing.) Concord RO. Church Dr. Economy Grange Provide ECONOMY BOROUGH Overlook Rd. 365 04060 Southvue BEAVER COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA Rd Zehnder Rd Dr. Road Herr Lynn Dr. T-668 Woodside prepared by MICHAEL BAKER, JR., INC. Mason Ext 4 School Neeley A church Road : Our Soldours B Lutheron urch CONSULTING ENGINEERS ROCHESTER, PENNSYLVANIA Ridge 30 Krepps 989 K Rigge 1964 No.2 POOLI Fire Stotion shaw Rood Ambridge Sportsman Club SCALE IN FEET COUNTY PARK 1000 O 1000 3000 Rd Hemmer T-646 2000 E Ave. Ext. is 989 MOILOH 1 Hill Sunnyside Dr. Kruest Ext. Dr. Rd. Rd. Fairview irview H. MWIATANOWSKI 4/17 .e. Assistag 0° SUNRISE 160 B 1st HARMONY TOWNSHIP S FLIGHT Hollow BOROUGH OF BADEN is A BIORD UFO and at Sport 4/17 Sun Road SUN Highland Rd P-13 Terminus E llelevation, 170 2nd HOVERING Res Resen YOW twoir TO 2ndAve. SAW UPU AEAIN MOVING UFO S.E. ECONOMY BORO dumno> Shopping Lights Center Anne Drive-In ABC Theoter M1. Gallitzin - MOBIL Rd PANRANELLA CAR 11 Beover OHIO RIVER ISLAND NFFF HUSTON CARS NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT April 27, 1966 MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR Complete notes from Log at base radio station in Columbiana County Jail in Lisbon, Ohio, concerning Spaur-Neff UFO chase of April 17, 1966. Copied April 27, about 10:30 PM, under supervision of Orville Scarry, radio operator who monitored the chase. AM 5:35 TR Portage Co "Your P-13 - Is At The Col. Pa. Line - ok - Adv When Another Unit Picks It Up For Him To Return To The Base - 5:50 RT Portage Co "Whats The Location Of P-13 - Just About Into Freedom, Pa. - Also OV-1 - Of East Palestine Is Running With Him - Still Observing The Object - Bright Light with A Rope Or String Attached To It - 1500-2000 Ft In Height - Traveling At Speed Over 100 Miles An Hour - ok - Have Him 25 & Return To Base - ok 5:55 TR P-13 "Signal 25 - ok - & Return To Base - ok - Turning Around Now - 6:15 RT P-13 Some Govt. Officials Wants To Talk To Us, Adv My Office - We Are West of Freedom - ok 6:15 TR Portage Co Gave The Above - ok - Then Have Them 25 - ok - 6:17 TR Portage Co Gave them The Above - ok - 6:40 TR KQ854 "Do You Know Whether They Got Pictures Of That Object - Don't (E Liverpool) Believe So - P-13 of Portage Co & OV-1 Of E.P. Seen The object, They Ran It To Freedom Pa - Also P-13 Pick This Up At Deerfield, - ok - 7:30 RT P-13 Want to thank your Dept. for handling my traffic - my Badge No. is - 15. Anytime P-13. OK. (Mantua - took Pics of the Object & Five People at Monroe Falls, Saw it.) (P-13 - contacted a Pittsburgh PD Unit & they scrambled some Jets, that flew under the Object.) Comp late W. weithel (according to Oridle tearry) Note : As I was leaving the Jail from copying this Log, Jailer Harold Cleckner testified that no one from the Air Force had interviewed any of the men working there, to the best of his knowledge; "They would have talked about it to me." Said I could use his name for this testimony. A privatelysupported fact-finding body serving the national public interest Log notation for April 17, 1966, submitted by Kenneth K. McMechen, Federal Aviation Agency, Greater Pittsburgh Airport, Room 311: Daily Record of Facility Operation Location: Pittsburgh, Penna. Identification: PIT Type Facility: Tower Operating Pos.: All Time: 10:58 (5:58 AM EST) -- Rcvd call from State Police at BVR & Rochester Police. Seems that some Ohio police had spotted this flying object flying SE bnd in venty E Palestine. They took after it & were able to follow it by maintaining speed of approx 105 mph. It was large, round, had a large antenna sticking out of the top & several big white lights around it. They wer on Rt. 51 & they lost it as it crossed the river east bnd. They saw UA7454 1vg here enrt BUF & this object went blo United. It was approx 500', United was climbing to 19,000. Ckd & pilots didn't see anything. Referred to USAF for action. Nothing observed on radar to fit this description. There were 3 cars (I blv this is cqt) flwg it for a 30 min period. Mr. Wes Miller, UA Supervisor at Greater Pittsburgh Airport suggests that the first of the four digits in the flight number is an FAA prefix. Suggests writing the Supervisor, Ticket Control, United Airlines, Inc., PO Box 8800, O'Hare International Airport, Chicago, Illinois 60666 for passenger list. 4-17 66 From initial interview with Dale F. Spaur: his comparison of UFO size with that of rear view mirror in car, when UFO was seen ahead of him after coming through underpass area at Rochester, Pa. This is apparent size of UFO, in answer to question, "If it had gone behind your rear view mirror, would the mirror have covered it?" Spaur answered that even if it had centered behind the mirror, it would have "stuck out" on both sides. UFO Smaller figure below UFO is my illustration of what I meant by "apparent size" when I asked the question that way. I sketched the window diagram; Spaur drew in the UFO-size-diagram. WW (Spaur's sketch of UFO appearance on separate sheet.) From initial interview in person with Frank Panzanella - his sketch of UFO seen when turning from 2nd Ave. onto 10th St. in Conway, Pa., prior to watching object move away over Northern Lights Shopping Center, then hover, just before other officers arrived. (Reverse) WW "DOME" Frank Panzanella "LIGHTS"? 4/20/66 BRIGHT SURFACE (SELF-ILL) DESCRIPTIONS OF NUMBERED DRAWINGS: SPAUR-NEFF, HUSTON SPAUR-NEFF, UFO DETAIL 1. Projection, tilted from rear (trailing edge) 18' long, tapered to tip 2. Dome-shaped top; partly metallic, partly self-illuminated 3. Glowing front (leading edge) 4. Cone-shaped light underneath 5. Glowing tip of trailing edge 6. Metallic surface 7. Sharp "drop-off" (Neff disagrees; remembers more rounded here) 8. Rounded "undercarriage" 9. Line separating metallic from self-illuminated portions SPAUR-NEFF, SIGHTING TERMINUS 1. Bright spot to right of moon, a little above axis of symmetry of crescent 2. Crescent moon (bump in concave portion indicates "nose" of "Man in Moon") 3. TV antenna on nearby house, through whose elements Spaur and Neff saw the UFO hovering before 1st upward elevation 4. Position of UFO after 1st elevation, level with moon to right 5. Position of UFO after 2nd elevation, above moon (now moving away, or disappearing) (NOTE: Panzanella agreed with relative positions of levels of hovering; Spaur agreed with Panzanella's on-the-spot location of object relative to nearby houses; Spaur examined a photograph made from the spot he claimed to have been standing.) HUSTON, UFO DETAIL 1. Cone-shaped light underneath 2. Bright, self-illuminated solid appearing top 3. Dome shape 4. Cone tilted toward rear, of direction of motion, more so than shown here. (NOTE: Huston testified to having seen, once, a projection; only got one view of it.) FURTHER NOTES: On Spaur-Neff joint signed testimony: Until over a week after the sighting, Neff was "in hiding," refusing to be interviewed by anyone. I typed a summary statement for Spaur to take to him, along with Spaur's drawings. Neff finally agreed to be interviewed on April 28. I mailed the statements and drawings to Spaur;" there was some confusion as to who was to sign the extra spaces; Spaur did this, so Neff signed elsewhere on the sheets. -- WW NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR April 23, 1966 Dale Spaur Sketch of U.F.O. / daring 7 2 chase 6 5 9 3 I clidantratice drop mark. Welber L neft 8 4 Dab J. Spaur. A privalely-supported fact-finding body serping the national public interest (W. L. Neff:) I agree with Dale Spaur's sketch, above. Signed Dale Spaur Date 4-27-66 NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR 5 April 23 1966 2 I 4 3 0000 During chase Dale Spaur 1500 distant Terminus of 4/17/66 obs. Dale F. Spaur Welbor I neft (W. L. Neff:) I agree with Dale Spaur's sketch, above. napenal Signed Dale 7.Spaur A privately-supported fact-finding body serving the national public interest Date 4-27-66 NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT By Deputy Sheriff Dale F. Spaur and Posse Member W. L. Neff MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE STATEMENT: On April 17, 1966, at about 5:00 AM, the undersigned, USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR Dale F. Spaur and Barney (W. L.) Neff, were patrolling the southeast portion of Portage County, Ohio. We had been hearing radio traffic about a UFO near Portage County. We found an abandoned car on the berm on Rt. 224 between Atwater and the Randolph. intersection of Rt 224 with Rt. 183. We left our car to routinely investigate this vehicle. Spaur noticed a light over the trees on the hill next to the berm, and called Neff's attention to it. As Wy*Watched, the light came closer and a large, self-illuminated object was seen as its source. The object came directly overhead and hovered above us. Its light lit up the ground where we were standing, and our cruiser, P-13. It was too bright to look at without hurting the eyes. We got into our car and radioed that we had spotted the UFO. During that time, it began moving away from us. We followed it down 224 onto Rt. 14, to the Chio-Pennsylvania border, and into Pennsylvania on Rt. 51; then through Rochester, Pa., and on Rt. 65, up to Conway, where we stopped. As we passed East Palestine, Ohio, Patrolman Wayne Huston, of the East Palestine Police, joined in our pursuit. In Conway, Pa., Officer Frank Panzanella met us where we stopped, and we stood with him watching the object as it hovered and then rose, twice, in a rapid climb. The object seemed 30-45 feet across, and 18-24 feet high. The light it gave off lit up the ground over the road and over fields as we pursued it. At first it was about 150 feet up; then it rose to around 1000 feét. During the chase it changed altitude and direction, maneuvered smoothly, had a sort of dome-shaped top, and at times showed a projection on the top part, near the trailing edge. Not all of it was self-illuminated; part of the top trailing portion looked metallic; not shiny, but satiny. At times we measured its speed over the ground at about 103 miles per hour. At one point, near Rochester, we lost it while getting through a bridge-underpass area, but when we emerged, it had come down lower and seemed to have waited for us; it went off fast ahead again then. We were, and are, sure we were not chasing an illusion, or seeing a reflection, star, planet, or similar still object. A privately-supported fact-finding body serving the national public interest AS far as our part in this sighting is concerned, at least, the article by Tom Schley in the Beaver County Times, April 18, 1966, about this, is accurate. Signed: Dale Date: April 27, 1966 Welber I neff NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR FURTHER --- concerning UFO pursuit, April 17, 1966 By Dale F. Spaur Someone claiming to represent the U. S. Air Force interviewed me on Monday and Thursday after myc sighting and pursuit of a UFO on April 17. Both interviews were by phone, and were the only ones. The first was about 21/2 min., the second about 1½ min. Each time, the interviewer seemed to want me to say I had only seen the UFO a few minutes, because when I said how long I had seen it, he did not ask any further questions about my sighting. Signed: Date: 4-27-66 By W. L. Neff The extent of Air Force interviewing of me concerning my part in the above mentioned UFO sighting is as follows: Dale Span talked with then L didn't Dates --- /Length -- hr. min. Wilbur Discussed: f neff (Please make further appropriate comments on this:) Signed: Date: A privately-supported fact-finding body serving the national public interest PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH WILBUR "BARNEY" NEFF, MOUNTED (AUXILIARY) DEPUTY SHERIFF, PORTAGE COUNTY, OHIO: TAPED APRIL 27, 1966 (W: weitzel N: Neff) W: Did the thing appear to be hovering at that time? N: Yes, it did appear to be hovering, or stopped, or whichever you'd want to call it. W: And did it stay, hovering there, very long, or did it move out right away, or what? N: I would say it stayed there for approximately three to five minutes. W: Oh - while you were watching it? N: Something like that; I don't know the time right in there; we weren't paying much attention to it. I believe we spotted it at about 5:07. W: While you were watching it there, during its hovering, could you see any details to it? What did it look like; a box, a dish, or what? N: Better way to describe it, I think, was it looked just like a teardrop. W: A teardrop? Upside down, point up, point down, what? N: Point up. That would be the closest I could come to it, would be cone-shaped, or funnel-shaped. W: Did you notice any projections on it? N: That, I really couldn't say for sure; it did look like there was an antenna coming from the top, on some angle, at what angle I don't know, or just where it was at, or which way it was sticking out, but there it was. (NOTE: Neff studied Spaur's drawing afterwards and agreed to all but one point -- the sharp dropoff from the dome, next to the "antenna".) W: was that while it was hovering, you could see that? N: Right. You could see/While it was hovering, or when it turned. W: Now, after it was hovering, did it zip out straight ahead, or did it start building up acceleration? N: Started building up, taking off gradually. W: What made you decide to follow it, not just watch it go off into the distance? N: well, we told the Sheriff's Office it was moving, and they told us to follow it. Stick with it for a while. So we did. I didn't know then we'd go clear into Pittsburgh with it, but we did. W: while, uh, let's see now: it's just started moving out, and you begun to follow it; did it rock at all, or twist, or did it go perfectly level when it was flying, or -- N: That I really couldn't say. It looked like it would turn once in a while, but as far as rocking or swaying, I don't know. W: At any time when you were driving straight down the road, did it appear to go across, in front of you? Second page -- Partial transcript, interview, Weitzel -- Neff N: Just when the road wound. W: Did it seem to follow the road pretty well? N: It seemed to follow Rte. 224, to, 14 to Canfield, from Canfield it took 14, -- it was on the right of us all the way out to Canfield -- at Canfield we turned right, on 14 and either 46 or 64, I don't remember the route fight now; and went southeast. Southeast to Columbiana, we turned left on 14 at Columbiana, that's a stop sign, and run it straight through to Pittsburgh. And when the road'd seem to take a sharp turn, it would cross the road; and most of the time it would run in a straight line ahead of us. When we dropped down behind the hill, on 51, in Penn- sylvania behind Beaver, it seemed just like it waited for us when we got hung up, or delayed in traffic. W: Did you see very many other cars, or trucks? N: we passed very few cars or trucks; we did pass a few. And then we picked up another officer from East Palestine, don't remember his name right now. He got in behind us just before we went across the Pennsylvania line. How many miles I couldn't say. W: Did you ever notice a noise coming from this thing? N: well, when we first seen it we thought we heard a low hum, or a whine, or something like that, but it could have been nearby phone, or light wires. W: Was there any wind, or rain? N; No. No rain; the road was dry. W: How about what happened then, when you got to, to near Pittsburgh? N: well, we got in near Pittsburgh, down across the Pennsylvania line, we run out of radio contact. We got down into Conway, there was a patrol car sitting in a gas station; we pulled in and told him what was going on. W: And what did he say about it? N: He didn't know what to say, much, about it. W: Did he see the object with you? N: Right. W: Did you watch it, after you stopped, for any length of time? N: We, after we stopped there, stopped with the Conway policeman, we stayed there approximately ten, fifteen, ten or fifteen minutes. W: What did the thing do, while you were watching it? N: Well, it seemed to go out, probably two or three miles, and just stop, and stay right there. And then it went straight up from there. W: Did it go straight up and keep going, or did it stop when it went up, and move again? N: It would go up and stop, and then go up again. Third page -- Partial transcript, interview, Weitzel -- Neff W: What was your last view of this thing? Did you see it disappear in the distance, or blink out, or anything like that? N: It didn't seem to blink out. There was a passenger plane, I believe a Boeing 707, pass beneath, almost directly under it, the angle we was looking at it. W: When did you stop watching it, and why did you stop watching it? N: Well, we were still, we figured we had better start back. The Conway police had called Greater Pittsburgh Airport, I believe it was, and they took it over from there. W: Did you ever talk with anyone from the Air Force? N: No, I didn't. Dale talked to, uh, a man down there, who he was, I do not know. Dale said his name, but I don't remember it. W: Do you know if it sounded like Bollin, or Garvin? "Colonel Bollin,' could it have been? N: It might have been; I'm not too good on names. W: What about after that, in the phase after that, up until now, did anyone from the Air Force talk to you? N: Nobody has. Except for you. And I believe you're with the Air Force. W: No, I'm with a private investigative agency. (NOTE: I had explained NICAP's status to Neff at the start of the interview.) Can you remember any other details about this thing, that seemed to stand out to you? How it affected you, for example. were you afraid of it, or nervous? N: I wouldn't say I was afraid of it, but I wasn't actually at peace with it, either! I mean, it didn't really shake me up or bother me half as much as it did Dale. W: Did it seem strange to you in any way? N: Yeah, it sure did: One of the strangest things I ever run across. W: Could you relate it to anything, could you say it looked like anything? I mean, anything that flew, or anything you're familiar with, that goes through the air? N: Not that I've ever seen fly before. I was in the service, in the Seebees, and we built a missile tracking base, at Cape Canaveral, little island between Cuba and Puerto Rico, called Grand Turk. And I seen many a missile, and stuff come over there, that they shot off Cape Canaveral; and it never looked like none of them. W: What would you say was the minimum and the maximum altitude of this thing? N: Minimum I'd say was between, I'm just guessing, 4-600 feet; maximum, when we was chasing it, run about, I'd say the most would be 3,000 feet. After there, it got up to where it just looked like a dot in the air; it got off a ways; you couldn't tell. W: Did you ever have to lean forward, and look up from the windshield, to see it? N: Right. Most of the time I sat right up next to the windshield. You'd have to sit up pretty close; once in a while it was almost overhead. As far as being straight overhead, I don't know; I don't think it was straight overhead. It was pretty close. NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON. D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR April 25, 1966 STATEMENT BY WAYNE HUSTON, OFFICER IN EAST PALESTINE, OHIO, POLICE FORCE, CONCERNING UFO SIGHTING OF APRIL 17, 1066 East Palestine has radio contact with Portage County. I heard it all start about 5:00 AM. When Spaur and Neff got closer to this area, I talked with Spaur by radio. I met him at the north edge of the city on Route 14. I saw the thing when Dale was about five miles away from me. "Mayne, OV-1 can't you see it?!" he said, and I did. It was running down Rt. 14, about 800-900 feet up when it came by. That was the lowest I ever saw it. As it flew by, I was standing by my cruiser. I watched it go right partly overhead. It was shaped something like an icecream cone, with a sort of meltedn squashed down top. I don't know whether the bottom was solid or not; it might have been like a searchlight beam, coming to a point; but it was so bright I would say it was brighter than the sun when it came up. The point part of the cone was underneath; the top was sort of like a dome. Spaur and Neff came down the road right after it. I fell in behind them. We were going 80 - 85 miles an hour, a couple of times to around 105 miles an hour. At one point at least, I was almost on Spaur's bumper, and we checked with each other what we saw. It was right straight ahead of us, a half to three fourths of a mile, ahead. I am familiar enough with Rochester and I guided him by radio, because I couldn't pass him in Bridgewater, to lead him. At Brady's Run Park, a car started to come out, hit the traffic light treadle, and some trucks were there; we had to slow down, and lost sight of it. We came on down Rt. 51; just after we came out of the railroad underpass in Bridgewater, coming out of Fallston, we spotted it again over by Rochester, and then in front of them again when we turned to Rochester. All the way we were trying to get contact with a Pennsylvania car. Had the base call Chippewa State Police station to see if they had a car on 51; they didn't. The first Pennsylvania car we saw was in Conway. Dale was low on gas in Conway, and we stopped where Frank Panzanella was parked. Frank said he had seen it but didn't think too much about it at first; thought it was an airplane. Frank radioed to his dispatcher, who called the airport and they notified the Air Force. After we started talking, as though it monitored out broadcast, it went sträight up. We could still see it, but hardly. We just saw it altogether about 20 minutes in Conway. We were going back when Frank stopped us in Freedom and said they wanted us to call the Air Force. Some colonel. from Rochester be kept confidential finding body serving the national public interest Speeper this information Petrabinen Wayne Dector at NICAP's discretion HWH. NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR april 25,1966 April 25, 1966 TESTIMONY OF WAYNE HUSTON -- CONTINUED I would add to this that no one in any other official capacity than NICAP has contact me concerning this sighting. I have received no communications from any government or military agency. The Air Force, to my knowledge, has not investigated this sighting from my point of view, or expressed any interest in my information. The following is a sketch of the object I saw as it flew overhead, when I was standing by my car by Rt. 14: April 1966 25 WAYNE HUSTON'S VIEW OF 4/17 U.F.O. 3 2 4 / SIGNATURE- Patrolman Wayne Huston A privately upported fact-finding body serving the national public interest COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH WAYNE HUSTON, PATROLMAN, EAST PALESTINE, OHIO, POLICE DEPARTMENT: TAPED APRIL 25, 1966 (W: Weitzel H: Huston) W: This is an interview with William Weitzel and Wayne Huston, of the East Palestine Police --- is that East Palest'een' or East Palest'ine'? H: East Palest'een'. W: Palest'een', Chio. The date is April 25, 1966; time, 5:05 PM. Discussing Officer Huston's "chase" with Dale Spaur and Barney Neff on April 17, 1966. Now, we just read this statement through, and I'm going to cross out, "from Rochester, at the end of it, because the Colonel wasn't from Rochester, that you were to call; the call was from Rochester. H: The call came from the Rochester Police Department. W: I'll X that out. (Does so.) Did you hear any noise when this went over, Wayne? H: No. The only, like I say, the only time that I was out of my car, when I could, was when I was, first started the chase. And I heard no noise at that time at all. W: (Presents a copy of UPI release on USAF conclusion) Wonder if you'd mind reading that out loud, just for the record on the tape. H: "The Air Force thinks the Ravenna Deputy Sheriff chased a satellite or the planet, Venus, when he pursued what he said was an unidentified flying object in a patrol car last Sunday. An Air Force report released Friday said another UFO photographed in the town of Mantua eight miles north of Ravenna also was Venus. The double image that showed on the film was probably due to processing defects. The lawman who pursued what he thought was a UFO was Deputy Sheriff Dale F. Spaur. He reported that he and his partner chased the object at high speeds for about ninety minutes into Pennsylvania. The Air Force thinks what Spaur saw was a satellite passing overhead. When it appeared, they said, he focused his eyes on Venus. The report noted that Venus was rising in the southeast and was brighter than any star in the sky. On the same day Spaur staged the chase, Police Chief Gerald Buchert of Mantua Ohio spotted and photographed an object which looked like two table saucers put together. W: That's the end of the article. That was the entire press release. What do you think of that? H: I'm not too familiar with the stars, and so forth, but I don't think it was. I don't think that the characteristics of,it, and through some of the people I've talked to, they said it was impossible for it to be anything like that. W: What would you say about your own sighting, that disproved this star idea? H: well, I couldn't understand its changing its course the way it did, if it was a star; I don't think it's characteristic of them to do that, plus its slowing down and picking up speed, I don't, I don't understand that. Like I told you before, Spaur really got a better view of it than any time that I did. He stated to me, or he made the remark to me, that it was running right along the road, alongside of him, at one time. Well, I was never that close to it. The closest I ever was to it was, I guessed it approximately eight to nine hundred feet overhead, that I was the closest to it at any time. W: What was it doing? When you saw that? H: It was going right down the road, probably eighty miles an hour ground speed. 'Cause that's about the speed that Spaur said when I jumped in my cruiser, to come after Spaur, why, he said he was running between eighty and eighty five miles an hour. And I know it took me a distance of, well, I didn't measure it at the time, I wasn't thinking about measuring anything, but I know it took me some distance to catch up to Spaur from a dead start. Second page -- complete transcript, interview, Weitzel -- Huston W: When you first saw this thing, did you have to move your head at all, to watch it? H: Well, I was standing more or less sideways, looking over one shoulder, and I watched it go by, well the thing was, of course it was only just a matter of seconds, until it was by, and I was in my cruiser, and starting the pursuit with Spaur. But it was traveling fast, I know it was traveling fast; I've worked enough traffic that I know, you stand on the side of a road and you see a car going by eighty miles an hour, you don't have much time to look at it. W: You gave a description of this before, and I've written it up here, but I wonder if in.your own words you could give it? H: It's hard to describe. I noticed, the way you 've written it up there, it's a "squashed" ice cream cone; it looked like to me, the best I can describe it, like an ice cream cone, one scoop of ice cream, that part of it had melted, and kind of run down flatter; - W: OK, I'll change that wording then. "Squashed" to "melted". (Does so (Later.) H: But as far as the come part now, I don't think that was a solid substance; it looked more like, it looked more to me like light rays, or some kind of light like you'd flash a flashlight in fog, or smoke, or something, coming down from the bottom of it. W: Was that fairly accurate, how I described that, now? H: Right. W: OK. Have you heard from any other people, that were interested in this sighting, to interview or interrogate you in any way? H: No; I've had, not too much of that as I've had a couple of letters from the local school, newspaper editors, the Kiwanis there in East Palestine, wanted me to come and talk at one of their Kiwanis meetings, but other than that, that's about it now. W: Has any official agency contacted you or interviewed you? H: No. No. W: Did the Air Force call you up? H: No. I haven't talked to the Air Force at all. W: How do you feel about the Air Force's saying this? H: I feel that they know more than what they 're telling the public. What their reason for that is, I don't know. But I think that the United States is too smart, and too aggressive to let something like this be going on without probing into it and knowing a bit more than they 're telling the public. W: Now I'm going to change this word, "squashed" to "partly melted". I want this to, be just as accurate as it can be. (Makes changes.) H: There's one other mistake on there, where you have he used my name, "Wayne" on the radio; it was "OV-1". That was my car call letters. Any time that we carried communications between car to car it was "OV-1 to P-13." OV-1 or P-13. W: OK. (Makes changes.) Third page -- complete transcript, interview, Weitzel -- Huston H: Because until we stopped in Rochester --- or in Conway -- he had no idea what I looked like and I had no idea what he looked like. We were talking car to car, and that was it. W: This was off of Tom Schley's notes directly, on that one. That would be oh vee dash one? H: Mn hmm. That's the East Palestine car. W: How's the public around here taking this, when they talk to you? H: It's pretty well quieted down, now. The public was awful curious over it, I -- every place you would go, or no matter where you go, why, they want to ask questions about it, and what I feel, and so on and so forth. W: Has anybody harassed you, or made fun of this? H: No, nothing other than, close friends, or they kid you about it, but, -- I got a call, last night, from a woman that, she said that she got a letter from her daughter. Her daughter's in Knoxville, Tennessee, and there was a pretty good write up in the Knoxville, Tennessee newspapers. She wanted to call and tell me about it. W: Has anyone else told you that they saw it, or have you heard about anyone who saw it? H: No, not too much, no. There hasn't been, I don't think anyone told me they saw it, a lot of people told me they wished they had seen it. That they was up that time of morning, and they wished they had been outside, or something to that effect. W: what was that you said in there, about if one of these came over again? (Reference to previous statement.) H: It's been a nuisance to me, really, I mean, I've been harassed so much on it; like I say, I work two jobs, I work midnight turn. And for three nights, three days, I didn't get any sleep. Because they, that telephone was ringing continually, and they wouldn' only call once; they'd call twice, they call three times; my wife was trying to take the phone calls, trying to keep them off my back so I could get some sleep, I was still working; ---. W: If we're taking too much time up, please tell us, but I don't think this will take more than ten more minutes. ("US" -- weitzel and Tom Schley, Beaver County Times) (Types. Huston draws sketch, signs papers.) (Huston's statement to NICAP composed partly of notes taken by Tom Schley on April 17; rest, Weitzel's phone call to Huston from Ohio April 20.) W: Did you ever see any projection on the object? H: I've told people I did. At one time -- but I'm not real sure. At one time I thought that I --- just when we was coming out of Bridgeport (Bridgewater --- W) into Rochester, where you get into that mass, bunch of bridges dam there. I thought I saw a projection coming out of it here on the right hand side. But I just got one glimpse of it, I glanced at it once and I had to look right back to the roadway again. That's the only time that I saw it. But when I had my closest view to it, I didn't see anything like that. Fourth page -- complete transcript, interview, Weitzel -- Huston W: Was this cone down here tilted to the back, or the right, or left, or what? H: Seemed like it was tilted toward the rear. 'Course my sketch don't show it too much that way. (Signs sketch; Weitzel reproduces on stt, for second signature.) I haven't talked to Spaur since that morning. (Long pause before this sentence.) W: Mn hmm. Sign real heavy at the bottom. You haven't talked to him at all since that morning? H: I called him one night, and it was his night off. And I haven't had a chance, I -- we're undermanned down here, at East Palestine now, and a man on vacation. W: (Adjusting sheets; Huston signing papers.) Now, would you mind if any of this information got into the press, or would you prefer it be kept confidential? H: I'd rather keep it out. If at all possible. W: Do you mind if any of it gets into a hearing in Congress, or to any Congressmen who might be interested in the conflict between the Air Force's testimony and yours? H: As far as I'm, as long as I'm not too much involved. I'll tell you the reason why I say this: there's quite a hassle down at East Palestine right now on me leaving the city unprotected. I don't know what's going to came out of it. It's in the air down there, but I don't know what's going to come out. I -- our local newspaper kicked me pretty hard for leaving the city unprotected, and, it's starting to quiet down now, at first I thought that I was going to be in trouble, but it's starting to quiet down now; I wouldn't like anything to rile it back up again. W: (Preparing stt to this effect.) We're concerned that other people are not concerned enough, that you could do something like this and get taken to task for it. We consider that it was not only helpful, it was vital, of vital importance that you did chase this and can add your testimony to the other officers'. What we're trying to do is to change the public attitude toward this so people won't, number one, be taken to task for investigating it, and number two, have to look into it in the first place. Schley (approaching car): Is it OK now? W: Yes, everything is all over. H: IS that all you needed from me? W: Yes, and if you can wait half a second, I'll give you a copy of that newspaper. (Gets copy. Recorder turned off.) NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: SKYLIGHT W.Waitsal 4/27/66 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE EXTRA 2:00 AM USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR SHEET STATEMENT - ROBERT D. WILSON, DEPUTY SHERIFF, PORTAGE CTY, OHIO SHERIFF'S ON APRIL DEPT. 17, ABOUT 5:00, OR AFTER, IN MORNING, DEPUTY SPAUR (12-13) 1966, I WAS RADIO OPERATOR ON DUTY AT PORTAGE CTK. CALLED IN TO REPORT CHASING UFO S.E. ON RTE. 224. As HE PURSUED IT, WITH W.L. NEFF, HE DESCRIBED IT AS 30-45' DIAMETER, DISC-SHAPED WHEN HE FIRST SAW IT HOVERING OVER HIS CRUISER, LIGHTING UP THE AREA ALL OVER, AROUND THE CAR "As BRIGHT AS HIGH NOON! HIS SPEED WAS 80-105 MPH. RADIO CONTACT WAS GOOD UNTIL HE AND NEFF NEARED PA. LINE. HE SEEMED FAIRLY COOL UNTIL THIS, WHEN ME REACHED PA., AND THEN MIS VOICE RAISED IN PITCH AND HE GOT MORE EXCITED - PERHAPS TALKING LOUDER FOR BETTER DIRECTIONS CONTACT. ME WAS THE OBJECT, ME SAID WHILE IN PURSUIT, CHANGED SPEED, ALTITUDE, AND BRIGHTNESS. WHEN RISINO, IT GOT BRIGHTER, AND VICE -VERSA. AT LEAST TWO TIMES HE REPORTED IT TO BE APPARENTLY WAITING FOR THEM TO CATCH UP, TWICE HE BROKE RADIO CONTACT TO LISTEN FOR A SOUND, AND REPORTED A HUMMING NOISE. WHEN THEY GOT INTO PA. WE RELAYED THROUGH COLUMBIANA CTY., OHIO. HE AND NEFF AND TWO OTHER PATROLMEN WATCHED THE UFO HOVER IN CONWAY, PA. SOME OF HIS COMMENTS WHILE DRIVING WERE, "Bor, THIS 15 WIERD" AND "IF THIS OBJECT 15 MAN-MADE, IT HAS THE BRIGHTEST LIGHT I'VE EVER SEEN." WHEN SPAUR AND NEFF RETURNED TO THE STATION, THEY WERE UNUSUALLY SERIOUS. SPAUR, NORMALLY AN EXCELLENT SPEAKER, STUTTERED, AND H'S HAND SMOOK WHEN HE PUFFED A CIGARETTE. HE ANTICIPATED SKEPTICISM FROM US. NO ONE REPRE SENTING THE U.S. AIR FORCE OR ANY OTHER OFFICIAL INVESTIGATOR, EXCEPT FROM N.Y.C.A.P.) HAS INTERVIEWED ME ABOUT THIS. 4-27-66 Robert D. Wilson A privatelydsupported fact-finding body serving the national public interest NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE April 27, 1966 USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR STATEMENT BY JACK E. CRAMER, SR., CONCERNING UFO SIGHTING APRIL 17, 1966, CHASE FROM PORTAGE COUNTY, OHIO, TO CONWAY, PA. I was the radio operator on duty that night, in Salem, Ohio, in Columbiana County. At a little after 5:00 AM, I heard traffic from Portage County. A patrol car, P-13, reported seeing a light in the air, about 40-60 feet off the ground, with a shape; that is, the bottom of this object was lighted, so bright it was hard to look at. The Portage County base radio operator told him to follow it, when it bagan to move. From the traffic over my radio in Salem, I got the following picture: The object, with P-13 in pursuit, traveled generally east or south, first along Rte. 224 to Deerfield, where 14 couples with 224. IC continued east, turning south at the edge of Canfield, still on 14, now on 46 also. Continued south to the edge of Columbiana, then east again, still on 14 and 46. It (they) followed 14 all the way to the state line, then (as I understand) into Pennsylvania on 51. Radio traffic from the cruiser, P-13, was clear until between Unity, Chio, and the state line. Several times, when the pursuit car could not keep up, the object appeared to stop and wait for them. This happened at the Deerfield, at the edge of Canfield, perhaps at the inter- section of 534 and 14 (not too sure about this location), and where 165 intersects 14, at the edge of Columbiana. The occupants of P-13 described the object as too bright to look at, and said they were Bartly frightened. When Portage gase station suggested shooting at the object, they said it was nothing like they had ever seen before. At 165, the object went straight up and one occupant suggested sending jets, or having jets sent up, after it. About 5 (five) minutes afterwards, Patrolmen Lonnie Johnston and, Inclieve, Shingleton, on a hill near town, watched two jets fly near another object in the sky. Ray Esterly The occupant$ who was driving P-13 described a noise associated, apparently, with the object, like a humming noise from a washing machine. I do not know whether he meant, all the time, or just at one or more times. He repörted, after it got light, that a wire seemed to be coming from the object. After it got light, the object appeared dimmer, relatively. They (the occupants of P-13) reported that they were traveling butween 80 and 100 miles an hour. I heard the radio of the Lisbon Sheriff's Office say that a cruiser from E. Palestine was waiting at Unity. No one from any government investigative agency has talked with me concerning this sighting, either in a military or a civilian capacity. I have not discussed this with any representative of the U. S. Air Force or anyone working in any way with aircraft, or airport, personnel. Signed Witnessed William B. waited N.I.C.A.P. Date April 27,196 6(both) (and typed) A privately-supported fact-finding body serving the national public interest PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH JACK E. CRAMER, SR., RADIO OPERATOR WITH SALEM, OHIO POLICE DEPARTMENT: TAPED APRIL 27, 1966 (W: weitzel C: Cramer) W: Did the object, did he describe it as wobbling, or perfectly level, or what? C : No, he just, uh, way I got it, it would raise, and then take off straight. It would go so far, it seemed like, and, the way he was telling it, it would more or less wait until they got there, because it was, they couldn't keep up with it; and as soon as they would get up underneath it, or where they could see it right good again, why, zooh, it would take off. No, he didn't say anything about it wobbling. W: When it stopped, and seemed to wait for them, did it come down and wait, or did it wait at the same altitude? C: No, the same altitude, the way I understood him to say; I never heard him say it come down at all; it was always, it would go straight up, and then take off. W: I see. C: He said it didn't level up; he said that it went straight up. W: How many times do you think it actually had stopped? During the entire chase that you heard on the radio? C: well, let's see, it seems to me it was at Deerfield, that would be one, and I'm not sure whether he said there at 534 and 14 or not (near Berlin Center); I know he did at Canfield, and at 165*, I believe, was the three times that I heard him say it appeared to stop and wait on him. Now he may have said it down here at this inter- section, down by Columbiana, but I'm not sure about that. Because that was getting out of range, too, to hear. It was at least three times, I'm sure, that he said it acted like it was stopped and waiting on him. And it would rise, a little bit, each time that it stopped. And it went up to about a thousand foot there at 165; that's when he mentioned about the jets from Youngstown. That's where it went up to a thousand foot; he said it looked like it was about a thousand foot. W: The driver mentioned that? What did he say again, about the jets? C: He was talking to his dispatcher, and he said, "Do you suppose you could get some jets out at Youngstown," he said, "Boy, that thing's really going up in the air," he said, "it must be about a thousand foot now." Where it had been around, oh, I suppose, from Berlin Center, down to there, down to five hundred feet. Or as near as he could judge it, that is, you know; it's a little hard to judge, I have an idea. W: Okay, uh, now: Could we -- I have the thing starting out here at Atwater, and I'd like to make a list of the turns it made, onto different routes, so I can describe its "itinerary," so to speak. C: Yeah. well, that was on 224. And then at Deerfield, it was 224 and 14. See, 14 comes into 224 at Deerfield. And then, of course, that's still going west, it hadn't made any turns. W: Going west? C: Going east, I mean. It hadn't made any turn at Deerfield. It didn't make any turn until it got there at, just at the edge of Canfield. And that's when it turned south. And come down to the, Columbiana. That's 14 and 46, then, 'cause 224 goes straight east. And it come down to the edge of Columbiana, and that isstill 14 and 46, and it went east then, off of 14 and 46, and 46 would end down at Rt.7, and 14 would continue to the Pennsylvania line. * 165 crossing here due east, not farther south. PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH DAVE BROTHERS, COLUMBIANA CTY., OHIO, SHERIFF'S DEPUTY: TAPED April 27, 1966: (w: Weitzel B: Brothers) B: I don't know what time it was, but I started listening to it on the radio when that Portage County Deputy was following down Rt. 14. I was out on Rt. 14(A) west of Salem, and I was under the opinion that they was coming in on 14 into Salem, but they was on northern 14, and they came into Canfield. I didn't realize the speed that he was running, so I turned to the east and started chasing after them. But the speed they were running, I couldn't catch up; I was about two or three minutes behind it all the time. But about all I saw in the sky was, I did see three airplanes, which was denied in the newspaper, that there was no airplane; I saw the three planes, and they were going in the same direction, east, into Pennsylvania; and the planes left a little vapor trail, but they weren't jets.... They were running too slow for jets, because I was keeping up to them I could make out the image of what they were, airplanes. And I only saw one jet, but that was farther east, and it looked like he was, he was coming west, and he just turned around and went back east, because you could see this vapor trail, when he turned around and went east. But other than that, I never spotted that object they were chasing W: What kind of traffic did you hear on your radio? B: Well, it all started up in Portage County, is where he spotted this thing off to the left, and he said that this thing was a bright light, and it was only about forty feet off the ground, as I remember when it first started. And he said he was going to follow it, and it went straight up, and it started -- I don't know what route it took until it hit Rt. 14 up here. But he hit Rt. 14, and he said he was coming into Deerfield, then he said he was going into Canfield, and it made a turn to the south at Canfield, and it came down Rt. 46, and it came into Columbiana, and made a turn to the east on Rt. 14 again and headed into Pennsylvania. And it just followed the highway perfect. At all the time. W: You heard that on your radio? You heard them talking about it, when they first saw it? B: Oh, yeah. Yeah W: Can you give me an account, beginning at the start, in as much detail as you can remember, and you can backtrack if you have to, of what you heard on your radio? B: Well, like I say, when it first started, I couldn't hear the Portage County car, he was too far away for our mobile units. But Portage County was kind of joking with him, at first; I remember them saying, "Don't blow your siren and don't scare the thing, to, don't do nothing to agitate it," is what they said. But then you could see it was getting pretty serious, and this guy was serious. And he followed it, and he said, "It's just off to my left, anywhere from a thousand to two thousand feet. It's a bright object." Now, he tried to describe it a couple times, but I don't remember whether he said it was cone-shaped, more or less, with the cone pointing down, and the whole underside of it was illuminated; real bright light. And I remember him saying now this is all I heard on the radio -- he was, Portage Cty. car, was telling back to the base, that at one time, there, it lit up the highway. When this started, originally, it was still dark. By the time they got over to the Pennsylvania line, it was getting dawn. And then they could still see it. W: When did it Tight up the highway? B: Well that would have been when it first started. That was before I could hear his car, see. Second page -- partial transcript, interview, Weitzel -- Brothers W: Did he repeat that observation, when you heard that over your radio? B: Mn hmm. Yeah. When he was talking to -- he, he kept, this Portage Cty. car, he was pleading for help, for someone else to make sure they see this thing, so they didn't think he was nuts. And as it worked out, we missed him, but Wayne Huston in Palestine was waiting there at Unity, and Huston saw the same thing. And Huston followed the same thing that this other car was following. W: where were they, when you first had radio contact from their cruiser? B: The first time I talked to him, he said he was crossing Rt. 14 and 534, is where he said he was at. And that's when I started talking to him. (Berlin Center). And that's when he said he was still headed west, or east, on Rt. 14, anywhere from 85 to 110 miles an hour sometimes, see. So we're waiting right outside of Salem here, waiting to see this thing, waiting to see this thing, and the next thing he said, just coming into Canfield." So that left me out. But right away we turned and we went as fast as we could, and we knew where he would come out at Canfield, in Columbiana. And he said he's headed south on 46 out of Canfield, and we called for Columbiana police, to be waiting for him there, and the Columbiana police, he ran uptown to get himself a camera. And this thing was running so fast that it hit Columbiana and was out of Columbiana before that cruiser got back down there. W: Who was in that cruiser, that went up to get the camera? B: Patrolman Jack Haines, in Columbiana. I was just leaving Salem, and he said he was on 46, leaving Canfield, going south, and I'll, I'd say it wasn't two minutes, he said he was crossing Rt. 165, so he was really running. There was no way possible we could catch up, to see this thing. But East Palestine was copying it all, and their cruiser was waiting up there, in Unity, and I know they both went all the way down into Pennsylvania on 51, and they observed the thing the whole way down, and I also heard them say they lost it, going down 51 into Brady's Run Park. W: You heard them, on your radio, say that? still B: Yeah. They were talking car to car, see, and I could/monitor it. W: Could you tell me more or less verbatim, what they said, or as good as you can remember it? B: Well, that Portage County car, when Unity, or the East Palestine car was waiting in Unity, he says, "Where's it at?" and he said, "Look right off to your left, by your left window post, and you see it up in the sky." Then he looked, and he says, "I see it." So that's when he followed it, too. And it still traveled at the same speed, like I say, when it got down into Brady's Run, I heard either East palestine or P-13 say they lost it.... They come through into the clearing and said, "There, it's waiting on us.... here in Freedom." And I heard East Palestine radio back, to call Chippewa Township State Police Barracks, in Pennsylvania, but they didn't have no car out. So the next car they made contact with was in Conway. And what happened after Conway I don't know. W: When did you finally lose radio contact? B: Well, after they got down in there, I don't know exactly where I quit hearing them, I kept hearing East Palestine cruiser give the Portage County car directions on where to turn, and everything; but I don't know where they was at, I presume they was in East Rochester. Then I didn't hear no more from them until they come back, and we talked it over in Unity again. That was about 10 after 7, I suppose. Third page partial transcript, interview, Weitzel -- Brothers W: And what happened there? B: well, that's where the East Palestine car and the Portage Cty. car, they came back on the way to their base station; we, that's where I waited on them, I didn't go down into Pennsylvania, I could see there was no use in me chasing this thing. I waited for them to hear their story when they come back. W: What did they tell you there? B: About the same thing. What they saw, and everything. And I believed them, because this one, from Portage Cty., he was all shook up. Was that Spaur? Is he the regular Deputy? And they had that Auxiliary Deputy with them, I don't know his name. He told me, he told me exactly, he described it again, just as he did over the air, the same thing I heard, see. W: How do you mean, he was "shook up"? Was he shaking? Stuttering? B: Well, he said his stomach, "It gives you a funny feeling in your stomach," he said, by God, he's never seen something like this before. And of course he told me, "You're gonna think I'm lying," he said, "By God you're not gonna believe it.". I, I believed him, myself. W: was he shaking at all? B: well, I don't think he had fright in him. But he was nervous, and I would be nervous, too, driving at the speeds he was driving, to get there, see.... But wayne Huston, he was pretty calm, and he felt the same way, he said, "By God, it gives you a funny feeling to see something like that." W: How well do you know Huston? B: Very well. But I don't know them other two Deputies at all. W: How long has he been with the East Palestine Police? B: About six and a half years.... And I've been with him in a lot of tight pinches, and he's, he's nobody to back down on nothing. He was, he was a little bit -- now, I say he was scared physically, it was just the feeling that they tried to describe with, how this thing acted up. W: what kind of descriptions did you hear on the radio, while they were chasing it? B: I can't remember that, except that it was cone-shaped, and the cone was pointing down, and I did hear them say that it looks like about forty to forty five feet across the top. But I don't know, uh, -- W: Do you remember anything about a noise? B: Oh, yeah; they did mention it had a steady humming noise. I heard them say that. Just a hum, and I know he said it doesn't, it didn't leave any vapor trail, or anything like that. And when it moved, I heard 'em describe that, when it moved, it didn't climb like an airplane, it either went straight up or it come straight down. W: This humming noise: did he say that was with it all the time, or he heard it at one time, or what? Did he use the word, "steady"? B$ Fourth page -- partial transcript, interview, Weitzel -- Brothers B: I'm not sure, he says it, I heard them say there was a humming noise. I don't know which way it was, which way he meant it. W: Could you hear a humming noise, over your radio? B: No. I was too far behind. The closest I got to them was four or five miles. W: Could you hear anything over the radio about jet planes being sent up? Anyone saying that they were, or that they were going to, or that they were trying to, or anything of that sort? Any reference at all to jet planes. Or airplanes, being sent up. B: Yeah. Now, I don't remember whether it was Portage County base station, or East Palestine, but they definitely said there was a couple jet planes sent up, to intercept this thing. And I also heard Huston talking to Portage County, that they had, -- he talked to some Colonel, or something, from the Air Force Reserve base, at Pittsburgh. Over the telephone. W: Huston talked with them? B: One of them. At East Rochester, see. They talked to this guy over a telephone. And this guy told Huston that they had spotted it on radar. At one time. W: Somebody told him? B: Yeah. That they had an object on radar, but they didn't know what it was.... I heard Portage County say something, they called the Youngstown Air Base about it, and they had no planes available. They had no jets up there, or something to that effect, see But I definitely heard that Pittsburgh sent up jets to intercept it, and they were in the area. And I also heard Dale, this Deputy from Portage Cty. state, that a plane, one of the passenger planes flew right underneath this thing. I don't know how much clearance there was. What I've often wondered, is what them planes were that I saw; and they saying there wasn't any W: He had heard that from his phone call? B: whoever he talked to over the telephone. They were supposed to have said, "We have the object on radar, and we've sent planes up." W: well, that's about as close as we gotten, I guess, about that. Has anyone from the Air Force talked with you at all? (radar & jets) B: No. W: Have you heard the explanation of this? That the Air Force gave? B: Yeah: Yeah. W: what do you think of that? B: well, I don't believe that: W: Does it seem likely, from what you heard? B: Well, I myself, I would say it was impossible. For three people to chase a thing like this, and then for them to say it's Venus. Myself, I think it's silly; but I don't know what it is. Fifth Page --- partial transcript, interview, Weitzel -- Brothers W: I guess that's all I have to ask you. If you hear anything else about this I'd like you to get in contact with me. B: The way they make you sound, you're better off not to. W: What's that? B: The way they make a fool out of you, you're better off not to. W: Oh. You mean -- who makes a fool of you? B: Well, the things like they come up with, this "chasing Venus". I think that's ridiculous, for cryin' out --- they ought to just say they don't know, and be done with it. But I don't, I don't know whether they know. W: (Terminates interview) NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON. D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT NOTE: This is a drawing made by Frank Panzanella, Conway, Pa. Police Department, on June 21, 1966, during my second visit MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE and interview with him. The first was on April 20, 1966, at USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR which time his drawing was identical with this one, as was the testimony. One discrepancy: he did not, on April 20, call this picture (second below) the "bottom" view; was not sure then. Between poles, nor projection W.Waitel AS THOUGH (Panganella did not see a "rear view"- w.w.) Projection at rear (trailing edge) of UFO REAR VIEW I/IIIIIIIU, REAL Light Bright / / / / Under SIDE. urte. 65 Light INSIDE Dack Rimioutside ntar SEEN coming down loth .st miley 10th 2ndy April 17-66 Goal Paymetha. - 6-21-66. that + LILL st A privately-supported fact-finding body serving the national public interest NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT June 21, 1966 MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE STATEMENT BY FRANK PANZANELLA, CONWAY, PA. POLICE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR May 18, 1966: At 5:20 A.M. stopped at Conway Hotel and had a cup of coffee. I the left the hotel coming down Second Avenue to 11th Street and made a left turn on 11th Street preceeded up the hill. Looked to my right and saw a shining object. I thought it was a reflection off of a plane. I got to Mickey's Lounge on the top of the hill and I looked back and it wasn moving so I turned the police car around and came back down 11th Street and went to Adamowski Service Station on 10th Street and Route 65. I then got out of the police car and looked at the object again. I rubbed my eyes 3 or 4 times but didn't say anything to anyone for the time being. I saw 2 other patrol cars pull up and the officers got be out of the car and asked me if I saw it. I replyed SAW WHAT: They pointed to the object and I told them I had been watching it for the last 10 minutes. The object was the shape of half of football, was very bright and about 25 to 35 feet in diameter. The object then moved out towards Harmony Township approximately a 1,000 feet high, then it stopped then went straight up real fast to about 3,500 feet. I then called the base station told the radio operator to notify the Pittsburgh Airport. He asked me if I was sick. I told him if I was sick so were the other 3 patrolmen. The operator got the airport on the line and told them what happened, he told them to hold the line and in the meantime we kept watching the object and at that time a passenger plane passed to the left about 1,000 feet below the object. We relayed the message to the operator and he relayed it to the airport. The object continued to go upward until it got as small as a ballpoint pen. Then we received a message to make a phone call. We preceeded to the Rochester police Department and made the phone call. Officer Parr talked to someone and then we returned to Conway Police Department where I gave Officer Parr my name and gas for his police car to return home. The object was in my sight from 5:20 A.M. to 6:15 A.M. Patrolman Frank Panzanella That is a statement typewritten and submitted to an investigator for the USAF on May 181/ 1966. The investigator asked me no questions, just took this typed stt. I told Mr. Weitzel of NICAP the following on April 20, 1966: John Bieghey, the Rochester Base Radio Operator, or a voice going into his microphone, said "They 're sending two up." Also heard a voice saying the object was on radar. This voice came over my police car radio. The radar report was heard before we saw the plane fly under the object. I also saw two streaks of smoke or something in the sky, like jet contrails, apparently coming in such a way that, ifi continued, the streaks would have circled the object. The front of the growing streaks was to the object's left, above the object. When I first saw the object, it was about 3/4 inch across at arm's length (apparent size). After it receded horizontally to a new position, it was about 1/16 inch apparent size. Relative to the moon, the object was quite distant and to the left of the moon; I could not see the moon from my position at the Atlantic Station where the object was seen between two antennas in the back yard across the street to the east. We all four watched the object shoot straight up and disappear. I heard a whipping or swishing noise, like swishing a piece of rope through the air, and heard this sound only when the object moved (between hoverings). Weather conditions: clear day, no haze in the sky. At 6/21 only we the end of the sighting, the sun was up enough to illuminate the hills to the north- east, and I had no need of headlights. When we were into Freedom, I heard a police officer of Economy Borough police, Henry Kwiatkouski say he had seen two planes. fact-pinding body serving the national public interest He called me on his own, not by my request. Correction: Kwiatanowski. 2153 Ridge Rd ex. His transmission was cut off by ground conditions through which he 266 - 2908. could not transmit; voice faded and went out Did not hear him say he had seen the UFO. Signed: Date 6-21-66 Typed: W.Weitzel, NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON. D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT STATEMENT BY FRANK PANZANELLA, CONWAY, PA. POLICEMAN, ABOUT RELEASE OF INFORMATION GIVEN TO U.S.A.F. REPRESENTATIVE ON MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE APRIL 17, 1966 UFO SIGHTING - THIS INFORMATION WAS GIVEN TO USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR THE U.S.A.F. REPRESENTATIVE MAY 18, 1966 and is the only information given a U.S.A.F. representative by me. I do not mind its being shown by the U.S.A.F. to any reliable UFO investigator, such as the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena representative, William Weitzel, but prefer that the information not be given by the U.S.A.F. to a news representative. Signed, Frank Panzanella, June 21, 1966: 6-21-66 W.Weitel NICAP - Typed 6/21/66 Note on Panzanella's interview by the U.S.A.F. representative: this man, whose name Panzanella does not recall, visited him in the Police Station late in the afternoon of the 18th of May. He told Panzanella he had only about 45 minutes to spend there, as he had to see Wayne Huston the same afternoon. Panzanella took longer than this to type his statement, and the interviewer said he would see Huston the next day instead, but he did not interrogate Panzanella at all; he simply took the written statement. * He also told Panzanella he did not care whether the statement was signed or not. He told Panzanella this was not his regular job (collecting UFO report information.) When Panzanella asked the interviewer whether an object moving at supersonic speed in a vertical direction would produce a sonic boom, the interviewer said he did not know. Panzanella's question was related to the rapid vertical departure of the April 17 UFO at the terminus of the sighting. * The typed statement, that is. Panzanella took me to the spot where he first observed the UFO after leaving his car. He got his first good look at it as he was driving S.E., on 2nd Ave. in Conway; it is this view he has reproduced in drawings as an oval with lights on the bottom and a projection near one edge. This was a bottom view. He turned off Second Avenue, went about ½ block to the Atlantic Station on Rte. 65, parked his car at the S.W. corner of the station, got out, turned around, and saw the object hovering to the east between two antennas in a backyard across the street. He moved across the station to the eastern corner and watched the object hover and the Deputies and Patrolman Huston pulled into the station and joined him. It is his first position from which this photograph shows him pointing. UFO POSITION FROM ATL. STA. W. Weitzel This photo taken June 21, 1966; UFO indicated by ink spot and arrow. y serving the national public interest Payment PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH PATROLMAN FRANK PANZANELLA, CONWAY, PENNSYLVANIA POLICE: TAPED April 20, 1966 (W: Weitzel P: Panzanella) W: Now, he called Greater Pittsburgh Airport (Bieghey did). Do you know whom he talked to there? P: No, he didn't tell me. He just says he was talking to the airport now, and they had him hold onto the line, because he had the phone in his hand, and he heard the operator telling the, telling the guy that the State Police were there, and that they had it on the screen. W: Was that the telephone operator, or the, uh, which operator was that? P: No. See, they had their phone open; they weren't talking to John. They didn't have the mouthpiece covered and John heard it on the telephone. W: who do you think the operator was talking to, then? P: I don't know, unless he was talking to that State Police up there; I don't know. Up at the airport. Because John relayed the -- John heard it and he was telling me right over the car radio, what they were doing up there. W: OK, now how did the operator put this, do you remember, is this second-hand from you that, uh, from what John heard, or did you hear this thing going on too? P: No; I heard talking, and Dale and us, we were all standing by the car, we were talking and watching it at the same time; I didn't pay too much attention, because the next day, when I talked to John over the phone from the building, down here, I said, "Did you see in the paper where the Greater Pittsburgh Airport says they deny having anything on the radar?" I said, "What did they tell you?" He says, 'No, I heard it. They weren't talking to me, but he says he heard them talking to the State Police up there, that they had it on the radar screen. W: Do you think the operator up there was talking to the State Police? P: I think so..... W: Did you see any other jet planes, or any other aircraft? P: We seen two streaks, and that was after we made the call, these two white streaks, you know how your planes leave that at a high altitude? There were two- streaks out there. What they were, I don't know. To its left toward the sunrise. And, a matter of fact, Harmony, Economy Borough called in and said there was two planes out there, but that's when we lost track of him, 'cause he was down in a valley and once he goes down in that valley, we can't pick him up. W: OK, now, the trails were to the left of the object, and that would put them in what position relative to the sunrise? P: Going right toward the sunrise.... And that's when Dale told me they had two trainers from Ohio trailing it, now whether it was his planes out there, I don't know, or from the airport, I don 't know, either; that's something I couldn' tell you. NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE S TATEMENT BY HENRY KWAATANOWSKI, ECONOMY BOROUGH POLICE, PA., USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR CONCERNING UFO SIGHTED MORNING APRIL 11 17, 1966 on this morning, just before sunrise, I heard radio traffic on a UFO over Conway. Then I he ard it was heading toward the sun. I was in Harmony Twp. Building. I drove to Shafer Rd. and Rt. 989 and looked for the UFO. I could not see it at first. I saw two jets going east, into the sun. Then I saw a bright, apparently externally illuminated (by the sun) "squashed football"-shaped object traveling behind the jets. It went in a line behind them, one jet in front of the other, the UFO third in line. It was a little above the jets. The jets were commercial liners, I could see the windows. There were vapor trails, not contrails, from the jets, nothing from the UFO. The three objects disappeared into the sun, in about five minutes. I had been trying to get Frank Panzanella on the radio, and he finally returned my call, after the object disappeared. I told him I saw two jets and a UFO behind them. He did not return my call. The ject did not appear to have any irregularities on the surface; portholes or projections or bumps. No representative of any government or military agency has discussed this sighting with me. I did not report the sighting to anyone. All three objects appeared to be in level flight throughout the sighting. The UFO did not zig-zag or alter its distance from the jet in front of it. Their altitude at the beginning and ending of the UFO sighting was about 15 degrees, NAME Henry 6/26/66 JET TITLE East Bright white in appearance, Brighter than OFFICER Henry Buitanorowshi Economy Boro Police Officer DATE WITNESSED 6/26/16 William Weits & NICAP 8:15 P.M. JET DRAWN: the two airliness. RE: 4/17/66 SIGHTING nding body serving the national public interest UFO NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE April 28, 1966 USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR STATEMENT OF LONNIE JOHNS ON AND RAY ESTERLY, POLICE OFFICERS, CITY OF SALEM, OHIO CONCERNING UFO CHASED BY SPAUR AND NEFF AND HUSTON, APRIL 17, 1966 MORNING. The undersigned, Johnson and Esterly, were on duty in Salem the morning of April 17. Around 5:30 AM, we stopped into the station to see who would turn off the city lights. We heard radio traffic on the UFO chase mentioned above. At the time we left the station to look for the object, thinking it might pass near Salem, the pursuit vehicle had passed 534 on 224 (Berlin Center). We went to Prospect Street partway down the hill, when we saw the object in the distance, at an elevation of approximately 25°, estimated altitude 10,000 - 20,000 feet (Esterly lo, Johnson hi). Actually, first we saw one jet, then the object in front of it. We could see the jet, the exhaust space, and the contrail. The jet seemed at the same altitude of the object, going (both) southeast. The jet seemed to be pursuing the object. While we watched, for an estimated time of no more than two minutes, we * saw two more jets coming from behind, in the same direction. These two had arcing contrails, either down or curved horizontally. The object was (Esterly) less than 3 or even (Johnson) 1 mile(s) away, in front of the first jet. The other two were about 10 miles back. The object was a bright ball, about 5 (five) times the size of the jet behind it. Its color was reddish orange, perhaps from sky reflection. Brighter than the planes. We could hear no noise from the object, nor from the jets. The object's brightness did not vary. We returned to the Salem Police station when the four objects flew out of view (the UFO and three jets.) The UFO appeared to be in level flight all the time while we watched it. When we came in, the pursuit vehicle reported its location as near (the object was above) Firestone Farms, east of Columbiana. Neither one of us has been contacted concerning this sighting by any representative of the U. S. Air Force, or my government representative, or any officials whatever interested in this sighting, except the people we work with, in the Police Station. Date april 28,1966 Witnessed William B. Weithel Signature pil Jonny Johnson N.T.C.A.P. Signature ptl Ray Cately A privately-supported fact-finding body serving the national public interest NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON. D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR ARCS of CONTRAILS- DOWN or TURN BRIGHT BALL - SEEMED LEVEL FLIGHT SAME ALTITUDE OBJECT N 5x siye of jets Could see contrails of 3jets, none on object. also saw flame exhaust of jets. 4/28/66 12:40 AM W. weitzed witness ptl Lonny Johnson Ptl Ray Caterly A privatelysupported fact-finding body serving the national public interest NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON. D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR April 28, 1966 STATEMENT BY LT. RICHARD M. WHINNERY, SALEM, OHIO POLICE, AND JACK E. CRAMER, RADIO OPERATOR, SALEM, OHIO POLICE, CONCERNING UFO (SAME ONE?) CHASED FROM OHIO TO PENNSYDVANIA ON APRIL 17, 1966 AM. We, the undersigned, were in the Salem Police Station on April 17, 1966, listening to traffic on a UFO being chased from Portage County, Chio, into Pennsylvania (as we later learned, that is, the conclusion to the sighting by Deputies Spaur and Neff). At about 6:30 AM, a voice broke into our reception of normal calls, saying something like the following: (Happened abt. ten min. before Johnson and Esterly returned from watching jets following a UFO going southeast, presumably the one being chased.) right "I'm going down to take a look at it" (couple of seconds later) "I'm/above it, and it's about 45 feet (forty five) across" "something traiding behind it" "like a ball of fire" We are not sure of the identity of the voice. No U.S. Air Force representative has seen us. We did not hear any other description of this object by this voice. The reception of this voice sounded louder than our normal reception. The frequency was most likely 39.58 mc, but perhaps 155 mc. Not sure AM or FM, but receiver is Motorola Model Model # LOIFNB - 1102A, Serial # E95161, Patent # (latest) 3,101,441. Date 4/28/64 Signature Witnessed William B. Weitel *(orintermed) Signature Note by W. Weitzel: Johnson and Esterly had just radioed in that they had seen jets following the object. Correction to above testimony: read "5:30" instead of "6:30" for time of reception of voice. Correction approved by the undersigned and witnessed. Witnessed William B Waitsol Signed Date april 28,1966 (about 1 hour later than above typed) PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW WITH LT. RICHARD WHINNERY, SALEM, OHIO POLICE: TAPED APRIL 28, 1966 (W: weitzel R: whinnery) W: Now what did you hear over the radio? R: This morning, the morning that they were chasing, Portage County was chasing this flying object, it broke in on our frequency, after our boys had called in and said that the jets were behind it, there was something that broke in on our frequency and the one guy said, "I'm going down to take a look at it." And then he called back just a couple seconds later and he says, "I'm over -- I'm on -- I'm above it, and it's about forty five feet in, across." And then he said something about something trailing behind it, then that was the last we heard. But it was just momentarily that it broke in on our radio frequency. W: Did anybody identify themselves? R: No. Just that they had told us that the jets were chasing it. That they could see their vapor -- W: was the signal loud, or clear, or -- R: Right. W: Was it garbled? R: No. It was real loud and clear. I mean, you could distinguish it, real loud. It's -- it was louder than what it usually comes in, because we're used to hearing these other stations. And this one, whoever it was, said, "I'm going down to take a look at it," and then when he called back in, he sounded like he was real excited. And he says, "It's about forty five feet across." W: Did he say how close he'd gotten to it? R: No, he said, "I'm right above it." W: "Right above it." R: 'Right above it." And then they said the next day that they didn't even have any planes in the air. W: Did he say anything about hearing a noise from it, anything like that? R: No. Nothing like that. Just that he above it, and it was about forty five feet across. W: Any other description, about the object sticking out of it? R: Just that there was, it was trailing something. And that was all he said. W: It was trailing something? R: Right. It was trailing something. Like a ball of fire, or something It was just shortly after they had called and said that they were following -- you know, that they could see the stream from the jets following it. And then, it came in real clear. And it was louder than what we usually get over here I've never heard the voice before. Because usually we ean tell, the ones around this area, because we know most of the guys around here personally. But this same in real loud and real clear, And then that first time, he said, "I'm going down and take a look at it." Then he said, "I'm above it," and he sounded real excited, and "It's about 45 feet across." NOTES ON p-13 SIGHTING TERMINUS There is a possibility that the UFO observed here, over Economy Borough (the Northern Lights Shopping Center area) is a different one from that chased. Frank Panzanella's description is a bit different from that offered by the deputies and Wayne Huston, although these officers believed the object they observed until the end, was the same as that chased. Panzanella's description may be, however, that of a "cooled off" UFO whose relatively flat bottom was now visible; he did see a dome-shaped top, or opposing surface. Unfortunately, the object hovered at a distance too great to make out great detail. The projection, or a projection, was visible in this last phase, however. The Kwiatanowski sighting, likewise, may or may not be the P-13 UFO. It appeared oblong, and did not seem self-illuminated. Note that while Kwiatanowski judged the UFO to be at about the same distance as the jets, and could see windows on the aircraft, he could see no features on the UFO. Kwiatanowski's sighting seems to have lasted about as long as it took Frank Panzanella to see the deputies off, wait for the UFO's return, receive a call about telling the other officers to call the airport, and nearly reach them. He estimated this to be about three minutes. There is room for conjecture that the P-13 object left the area and went after the jets Kwiatanowski observed. Regarding the position of Venus relative to the moon: David webb, NICAP Investigator in Alliance, Chio, writes the following: Venus rose at 3:35 am EST and was very bright in the SE sky at magnitude -4.0 at midmonth. It reached greatest western elongation on April 6 and greatest brilliancy on March 1 (magnitude -4.3). The moon passed very close to Venus on the morning of April 16 and Venus was south of the moon. Neither Mars nor Jupiter was in the morning sky. Saturn rose at 4:10 am EST, was 19° from the Sun, faint (magnitude 1.4). Binoculars would probably be necessary to see it. The moon was at last quarter on April 12 at 11:29 pm; new moon occurred on April 20, at 3:36 pm. On April 17 the moon would have been a thin crescent nearly 27 days old. AS near as I can determine, the cusps would have pointed south. Note that Spaur saw a bright point of light to the south of one of the cusps; this corresponds to the position of Venus almost exactly! This is a point which, I feel, cannot be belabored too much due to the erroneous AF conclusion. Evidently Spaur and Neff very assuredly saw the moon, Venus, and the UFO at the same time, and, hence, the UFO could not possibly be Venus, period. Twilight began about 3:45 am EST on the 17th. Sunrise was at 5:20 am EST. The Pittsburgh Subcommittee of NICAP is still investigating rumors of a photograph taken in Conway of the P-13 UFO. Someone was apparently bragging of this at the Croatian Club in Freedom, and at the Baden American Legion. I have checked both places myself and could not dig up anything, but someone who saw the man is still trying to find him. He reportedly called the Army and was told to send them the undeveloped negatives. The citizens in this area are reluctant to discuss the UFO topic, and reportedly heaped ridicule on the man when he made his claims. Mr. and Mrs. Taylor reported a UFO in the Conway area April 17 morning, but theirs flew by at 4:30 am EST; the sky was still dark. Not much detail. Park Quarries DISCUSSION OF JET PLANE AND/OR RADAR INVOLVEMENT WITH UFO eedom Wallace City ? Early news bulletins indicated that one of two trainer jets sent Conway from Youngstown had buzzed the UFO and heard a humming noise, and that jets from Greater Pittsburgh Airport had tried unsuccessfully to approach the slow-moving object. A voice on Frank Panzanella's Crow radio, which operates on a frequency different from those used (39.58, 155.xx mc) in Ohio, said, "They have it on radar, and they're Baden 989 W. Economy sending two up." Panzanella claims Beighey (Rochester Police Radio Aliquippa Operator) overheard someone at Greater Pittsburgh Airport making Legionville 6.5 Economy this statement, when he was waiting to report the UFO. Columbiana Park County Deputy Sheriff Brothers heard a similar report on his Ohio Ambridge radio. The report to Salem, Ohio base of an observation of three Aliquippa jets chasing a UFO in Spaur's direction was immediately followed 3A by what seemed to be a pilot's comment on the object. 65 389 Major Hector Quintanilla denied that any radar or jet involvement was reported to him. At his May 10 hearing in Portage County, he promised to look into it further, asking specific questions. No word from him on this, despite a follow-up letter. Lt. Stephen MEETING Paquette, Oakdale Missile and Radar Station, in charge of handling South Hts. 0140 Fair- Camp UFO reports there, said he had heard nothing about jets, but may Ground oaks FOR 1-W not have anyway; their radar may not have electronically "noticed" Wireton 3. the UFO if it were as low as he had heard. But no radar reports Leetsdale at Oakdale. The FAA log at Greater Pitt is negative. Allegheny Glenwillard Deadman Shie Edge worth Panzanella and Spaur both noticed jets apparently changing course BUT in the vicinity of the UFO, toward the terminus of the chase. In Economy Borough, Patrolman Henry Kwaitanowski saw a football-shaped UFO chasing (or following) two jets, after the P-13 UFO disappeared, 12. miles SELVER ips Ferry which may have been the same jets observed by the other witnesses. I checked in person at Sheriff's Office Base Radio Stations in FLAUGHERTY 2.6 Portage, Columbiana, and Mahoning Counties, the Youngstown Police Narrows 'not Department, Salem Police Department, and Chippewa Barracks, Penn- Cor sylvania State Police.' Could not track down the source of rumors (and signed statements) about jet or radar reports. John Beighey, Moon Rochester Police Radio Operator, denies hearing jet or radar reports CARN such as Panzanella mentions, and is reluctant to discuss the event. Montour Hts Country Club Panzanella claims something may have come via phone-microphone, if X GREATER Air Beighey had his button down; but there is still a conflict between PITTSBURGH AIRPORT Club 2-G $4.8 Beighey's and Panzanella's testimony. (* Also OSP Canfield) Two points may allow considering the possibility of the Salem Police 60 6.1 THE receiver picking up uhf signals from a jet plane. (1) According to 978 Jim Hillman, Pgh. Subcommittee member, disruption of the frequency multiplier circuit often used in uhf transmitters, may cause a lower Gu frequency broadcast. (2) As Spaur was nearing the Pennsylvania Enlow 30 STEUBENVILLE border, at least two listeners, including Robert Wilson, Portage PIRE ine Imperial County Deputy Sheriff, Radio Operator, Spaur's voice became squeaky. echcliff At this time Spaur experienced trouble with his squelch circuit. Fayetteville This was in the vicinity of the area where the UFO made a left turn. 4.2 Fork 18 miles Although these points are no basis for deductive proof of UFO EM effect, that possibility is consistent, or may be, with them. The possibility of reception of a normally different-frequency trans- mission, therefore, should not be ruled out altogether. Half Cream North Regarding lack of radar reports, AFR 200-2, RAM invisibility, and Ren the good old ad hoc EM effect should not be overlooked. on the other hand, it may be just as well to accept the U. S. Air Force's Oakdale (perennially) final word on this subject. SUMMARY: INITIAL PHASE OF INVESTIGATION OF P-13 UFO "CHASE" APRIL 17, 1966 April 17: Heard radio report of chase. Called WJAS, being in Pittsburgh, to get some details. Reports of shape of object varied. Ice cream cone, double plates, sphere. Called several Subcommittee members but most were unavailable. Robert Schmidt was tied up with previous committments and had to stay home, but he and his wife agreed to act as filter center. William Jasulaitis, Subcommittee candidate, said he could go to Conway, and might get radiation counter. Tom Schley, Beaver County Times "UFO reporter", was on his way to investigate this case. Bob Schmidt called back with report of Buchert photo. Said it was being held for the federal government. Called Mantua Police; Sgt. Klein said the chief (Gerald Buchert) would meet me in Ravenna in 2½ hours. Curt Shaw, Subcommittee member, agreed to drive to Ravenna with me. I was unable to contact either David Webb in Alliance, or Prof. Mendenhall, Pennsylvania Unit #2 Chairman. Richard Hall knew of no other nearby investigators. Tom Schley called, said he would be in Ravenna later today. Bill Jasulaitis said he and Henry Kalapaca, another Subcommittee candidate, would meet me in Ravenna with radiation counter. Shaw and I left in separate cars, to travel via Ohio Turnpike. On way to Ravenna, NBC Monitor reported that a federal investigative team from Pittsburgh was on the way, called the "National Investigative Committee on Aerial Phenomena", headed by William Weitzel. I debated pulling off the Turnpike to call in a correction, decided to do so in Ravenna, before next news broadcast, to avoid further telephone confusion. Arrived in Ravenna about 4:45 PM EST. Neither Jasulaitis nor Schley had arrived. Shaw was there. We talked in Detective Leland's office. Chief Buchert had four 8x10 enlargements of the "UFO", but preferred not to release them to anyone until they had been seen by the government. Buchert had not called any federal agency, had thought NICAP was one. I explained status, also had Glenn Rinker, NBC News, Cleveland, phone in a correction-interview. Buchert would not allow Shaw to make Polaroid copies of prints, would not let anyone view the negatives. He was concerned about revealing data of government or military secret device. Prints showed only two fuzzy ares of darkness on grey background, with dark fan-shaped extensions from concave side of each object. Shaw left. I interviewed Detective Leland; he gave me original report by Deputy Spaur, filled out on return from Conway this morning. Leland gave me names, numbers of Huston, Panzanella. Also fresh batteries for the Norelco 101 recorder, running low. I made more calls, to Jasulaitis, Schmidt, tried NICAP. Jasulaitis and Kalapaca could not make the trip. No NICAP-DC personnel available. I filled in Bob Schmidt. Tom Schley arrived. Spaur arrived, was brought in detectives office to see me. Buchert came in, announced that he had just talked to, had called, wright-Patterson AFB, Lt. Weisinger, was told to lock up all photo material until next day. Spaur appeared exhausted but was cooperative. He had gotten about 1/2 hour of sleep. Shortly after start of interview, Spaur left the office. I continued talking with Mr. Leland, who brought in Spaur's file. 35 yrs old, 6.41", 189 lbs., 3 yrs A2C, radio gunner, refueling boom exp., former police work in photography, fingerprinting, radio operator. With Portage County Sheriff's Department about 1 year. William Powers, Northwestern Univ., called to interview Spaur. He agreed to my taping the interview. I talked with him briefly afterwards. Powers was looking for data to disconfirm "Venus" as an explanation. We exchanged phone numbers. Powers was on phone about 20 minutes. I found Spaur being interviewed by Tom Schley, waited, then resumed interview in Leland's office. By this time the station personnel had put me "in charge" of Spaur's interviewing, were not letting in any reporters. This made some reporters irritated. Spaur seemed still incredulous about his experience; had not taken "flying saucers" seriously before, did not expect me to believe him. During interview, Larry Moyers and Mare Candusso of F.S.I.C. came in; Leland asked if they could talk to Spaur, I agreed. They had brought Geiger counter, it developed, and we decided to go to site of first observation of UFO. SUMMARY: INITIAL PHASE ETC. cont. April 17 cont.: I called Fire Department and Civil Defense office, talked to Chief Vatch, John Gembar; they had examined Spaur and Neff and P-13 for radio- activity on their return this morning. No unusual levels. Site not examined. Bill Jasulaitis called; could not get Geiger counter to me. Decided Candusso's was all right; Victoreen CD model, with fresh batteries. About this time, Rick Hilberg, Glenn A. Barth, and David Olesko, from a Clevaland UFO group, had arrived. we went to 224, found abandoned car Spaur and Neff had originally stopped for. It had some tapes, a cheap Japanese transistor toy tape recorder with a tape of hillbilly music on it, some miscellaneous electrical gear, in the back seat. Trunk full of old tires. Spaur looked for burglary tools. (Car was towed later.) Candusso went into the woods with the Geiger counter, claimed normal background count. Nothing on berm (radioactivity). Spaur went through details of initial sighting. I taped entire trip. On way back, interrupted trip to call Tom Schley at BCT, exchange data (no opinions or conclusions). We returned to Courthouse. Sheriff Dustman there. I took room at Kent Motor Inn. (* Our trip to and from site.) April 18: Went to Akron to buy more tape equipment at Olson Radio. Got back to Ravenna to find Chief Buchert had been notified that Dayton wanted his negative. No one knew whether this meant a personal visit by Major Quintanilla or not. One deputy told me Buchert was going to "release the picture at noon," did not know what this meant. Chief Buchert was in Mantua at this time. I drove up there to find office closed. Called Ravenna, found that Buchert had been notified I was there, and he was on way to Ravenna. Said he would stay there a while, then return. I called again about ½ hour later; Buchert had turned around, hearing I was in Mantua, and was on his way. While waiting, I called William Powers, told him my data, having checked with Richard Hall for release. I told Powers about Spaur's comparing the UFO's size to his windshield rearview mirror, larger than the mirror during chase. When I reviewed the rapid elevation at the end of the sighting, in Conway, Powers agreed Venus was ruled out. Buchert arrived at Mantua Village Police Station. I examined negative. Taped examination and interview, except for some questions from B. Buchert was interrupted several times during the interview by news media, by phone and in person. I was interviewed by TV reporter on camera. I encouraged Buchert to have more prints made before sending in the negative; he agreed to have made for me, three contact prints of entire film and four enlargements, and about twenty enlargements for interested news media. We got to Ravenna about 3:00 PM EST, and spent much time in the Ravenna Record-Courier darkroom waiting for a photographer. One finally came, and I went outside to give report to NICAP-DC. While talking to Richard Hall and Major Keyhoe, Buchert left the photo lab without having contact copies made. I called him in Mantua, persuaded him the contact process was harmless. He agreed to come back in ½ hour. Tom Schley arrived on another visit to Ravenna. we talked about 1 hour, waiting for Chief Buchert, who never returned. I called his office. He was tied up with village officials, reluctant to talk. Said to forget about a contact copy. W-P AFB had called early today asking that the negative be mailed to them and he was anxious to do so. I persuaded him to wait until we could talk more freely. He agreed. I called back later at a pre-arranged time. Officer Dale Kernen said the chief was "out" and would be back at 4:00 tomorrow. I gave pitch for scientific value of contact prints; Kernen was encouraging. Had supper with Spaur and Schley. Spaur named Floyd after his middle name, frustrated that his UFO could not be called a name like "Ford" or "B-29". Called Jim White for latest on AP and UPI news. Returned to Franklin, Pa. to stock up on tapes and get batteries recharged (the reborder's and my own) and pick up more equipment. SUMMARY: INITIAL PHASE ETC. cont. April 19: Charged nicad batteries, packed many tapes, etc. Called Jim White, got Youngstown jet report (one flew close for moment, heard buzzing noise). Called Buchert about 4:00. Out. I tried to persuade his wife to convince him of value of contact prints. Buchert came in, we talked. He said OK if OK with mayor; I called Mayor Robert Thomas, not on basis of Buchert's suggestion but to ask help in persuading Buchert to make contacts. Mayor agreed if on Buchert's own time. Would not call him, said unnecessary. Called Buchert's number, no answer either home or station. Finally left for Pittsburgh around midnight to see Tom Schley, who had interviewed Huston and Panzanella. (Beaver, that is.) April 20: Left Beaver about 2:00 AM EST, visited Frank Panzanella at his home. Taped interview. Left about 5:30 for East Palestine to see Huston. Unavailable. Slept by highway, called Buchert at home around 10:00. He had given negative to Kernen to mail, found not yet done. I told him of mayor's OK. Buchert agreed to let contact prints be made. On arriving, I found that Buchert wanted mayor's personal approval, not my report of it. I said mayor did not want to do so. Buchert did not want to call mayor. Finally, Buchert gave me the negative for a receipt. Had prints made at Record-Courier. Vacuum table process. Returned them to Buchert (negative and a contact copy.) Measuredhis yard according to a picture of it on the film, to determine field of view of camera. Finally left with 5 contact copies of entire film, and 4 8x10 enlargements. Buchert sent Officer Kernen to Post Office with package including negative and UFO report, for mailing to Major Quintanilla. I took room in Ravenna Hotel and caught up on tapes, mailing, phone calls. Reached Huston, John Beighey (Rochester Radio Operator for local police stations). April 21: Interviewed Rex Lysyj, proprietor of R&E Distributing Co. in Ravenna (mainly camera and tape recorder equipment), who had helped develop film for Buchert. He had come to Sheriff's Office early April 17 with fresh developer. Jerry Yokum (and, according to Spaur, Detective James Bullock) had also assisted. Technical details, from Mr. Lysyj and Chief Buchert: Buchert had attempted three shots of UFO, for object alone, (centered), object plus moon (moon to left and below) and object plus phone pole and wires. Object seemed to go up and down relative to nearby phone wires; Mrs. Buchert said it changed outline once from ovaluinto "Saturn" shape. Buchert was inside on phone at this time (about 5:10 AM EST 4/17), and both saw it move left and right, within small area. Buchert later (around 8:00) took five pictures of his family and home. Removed film from camera, a Brownie Starmite, took film to Mr. Rex. Film developed in tank adapted for TC-2 one-stop developer bottle. Film loaded upside down, in such a way that arc-image streaks aim down. Agitation was continuous for 10 minutes. Camera had fixed £ stop of fll, speed 1/60 sec. Film Ansco Pan, ASA 125. Visited Record-Courier office to inform of errors in some of their articles on the P-13 UFO and Buchert's film, and my part in the investigation. Talked with Mrs. Carol Clapp, who was most apologetic. Worked on tapes in room at hotel. Returned to R-C office for long interview with Mrs. Clapp, who promised retraction-by-interview. Cashed check at drug store, met Spaur. He said Major Quintanilla had called him to repeat query about whether Spaur had seen the UFO for more than a few minutes. Spaur said only other call was brief one Monday "Tell me about this mirage you saw. More than a few minutes? Who has the pictures?" and termination. Spaur had supper with me and discussed more about terminus of sighting. April 22: Got up early to check morning sky. Drove part of "chase" route. Found out from Mrs. Clapp about Congressman Stanton's interest. Called Richard Hall to OK letter to Stanton. USAF released "Venus" conclusion, and Major Quintanilla called Buchert about 3:15 PM EST, saying he didn't see a UFO because the film showed nothing. Sheriff Dustman was perturbed. Interviewed Spaur for reaction. Neff still unavailable. April 23, 24: Prepared letter to Stanton. Visited Tom Schley in Beaver, typed partial transcript from 4/23 interview with Spaur. Mailed to Congressman Stanton 4/25. Waitel STATEMENT BY DALE SPAUR CONCERNING U. S. AIR FORCE'S EXPLANATION OF CHASE UFO FROM OHIO TO PENNSYLVANIA ON APRIL 17, 1966 April 23, 1966 After hearing the Air Force release, well, it's, I don't know how much investigation they made but evidently it wasn't a very lenghhy one or it didn't involve me. First of all I don't think we have a satellite that can go this low, and I don't think we have one this large. I didn't know that if we had one that could stop or go or maneuver anytime it wanted to, and I'm definitely sure that I wasn't chasing Venus or observing Venus and running wildly over the countryside; I'm not quite that bad off. I don't think for a minute in my own mind since I think about what happened that morning that I would have gambled my life, my partner's life or any innocent person on the highway for something that I felt if I felt for one instant it wasn't important when I set out after this thing, after I talked with my sergeant was to actually disprove this/thing. I felt, well, it will get light in a minute and I'll flying saucer Identify it and I'll know what it is, it's, I'll know exactly what this thing is. Unfortunately it didn't turn out that way. Second of all I have perfect vision, I don't have hallucinations, at least I don't know of any I have. If anything is wrong with the negative and the processing was bad or badly handled, I had nothing to do with those; I know Chief Buchert, I know him as Gerry, and we've been associated for better than a year, all good. He's a very fine policeman and a real honest one. AS for my partner, I don't think the way he "likes" riding at high speeds, if he had thought for an instant that this wasn't something bigger than anyone or any of us had ever seen or been around I don't think he would have even gambled on a ride such as this. What Wayne Huston observed as it passed over top of him, which I don't think it's over Columbiana County at 1,500 feet traveling from east to west (sic) as it goes over top of another police car would also observe the identical, the same object that I did. I've never met the man before in my life before this morning. Also the same object that I observed and that Wayne Huston observed that another officer in Conway Pennsylvania could observe the same thing still traveling from the west to the east and to the left of the moon and which as I understand it, Venus was to the right of the moon, I don't know anything about astronomy but I°m positive of what I was chasing. and I also don't agree it was Venus. I know what I seen and I believe it and I'll never change my mind. I was a nonbeliever before and never had any thought in my mind that the Air Force couldn't explain every one of these things. I believe in what I saw and nothing short of heaven or hell is going to change my mind. And that's the exact way that I feel about it. I don't mean it facetiously: I don't mean that the Air Force is inadequate; I just think they're like I an, they don't have an explanation, and if they do and it belongs to us, just tell me 411 it does and I'll believe them. If it doesn't belong to us, by God say it doesn't, because I think I ought to know and if it belongs to us, tell me what it's doing in a small little county like Portage, roaming around over the country side. And there could be no scientific interest in this county at all; there isn't even any racial problems in this county, so it couldn't even be investigating them. That's all I would ask, if I could ask them face forward: if it's ours, tell me it's ours, and if it isn't by God they ought to help us find out what it is. Waitzl page 2 STATEMENT BY DALE SPAUR -- continued That's my only way of expressing it. I'm at a loss to say what their investigation consists of because I don't know. (Weitzel: "How long did they talk with you altogether?") How long did they talk to me? Ocoooooh, probably two and a half minutes one time, maybe a minute and a half another time. (Candusso: "That's the Air Force?") Nell, I assume this major was from Wright-Patterson, he's the only one that identified himself as having been connected with the Air Force. I'd say our conversation covered a total of maybe two or three minutes. The first part of the conversation or the telephone call was with the Sheriff, and he asked me about this mirage or vehicle or whatever I seen, or star, or something. When I told him how long I had seen it, how long that I, or how far that I followed it, why, he seemed as though he just accepted that explanation with no comment at all. ... (slight pause) and his first immediate reply to it was "I want possession of the negative," or "We want possession of the negative," I'm not exactly sure of how, which way he put it, and I told him he'd have to talk with the Sheriff; the Sheriff, I gave him the phone and I overheard the Sheriff half of the conversation explaining to him that this was the property of the Mantua police department and Gerry Buchert, and he would have to contact him. And from what they done with it then until this piece of paper you gave me now* is the first thing I've heard as an explanation, or, I don't know; maybe it's a pacifier; or whatever it is it's the first I heard of it. Extract from tape recording made April 23, 1966, afternoon * "piece of paper" -- UPI report of Air Force conclusion concerning 4/17 UFO NOTES ON BUCHERT SIGHTING The film does not appear to corroborate either Buchert's or the P-13 sighting. The UFO marks, as the W-P analysis correctly indicates, are of less density than the background. The background is at zero image density, there being no frame boundary areas which would contrast with even a minimal exposure. Therefore the UFO marks are the result neither of light striking the film to produce them, nor of a dark object silhouetted against a lighter sky. Note discrepancies with the W-P analysis density measurements. Negative density is a standardized quantity; there is some indication from the W-P analysis that the UFO marks in question were never measured. The W-P measurement of lowest density corresponds to one area on the film where there is a broad streak; this is the lowest density any- where on the film, but is nowhere near the UFO marks. The details of Buchert's sighting, which must be considered independent of any lack of photographic corroboration, do not consistently point to, or away, from a "Venus" interpretation. On the one hand, the object, though round and at times "saucer-shaped," appeared smaller than (as Buchert remembers) Venus, which he has seen before. Also, the UFO was in the general vicinity of the moon, though definitely above it, and to the moon's right. It appeared more distant from the moon when Buchert looked a second time, and tried to photograph it, from his front yard, but only about twice as distant as the first time; if the original distance was truly small, double that would have been within bounds of visual error. Also, Buchert first thought it was a star, but ruled this out because (only because) it did not flicker, and was much brighter than stars still visible to the west. Finally, Buchert saw, in addition to the UFO, only the moon. If Venus was visible that morning, he should have seen a third object. On the other hand, Buchert claims the object elevated, descended, moved left, and moved right, and that its shape changed when it moved horizontally. (It performed these "maneuvers" only one time.) Furthermore, he expected no difficulty, and seemingly had none, in trying to photograph the object by itself, separated in the camera's field of view from the moon. Venus should have been close enough to the moon to make such. a separation difficult, with Venus centered (Buchert centered the UFO in the viewfinder, this photo). Also, Buchert, after turning in a verbal report, continued his police duties, and looked later, around 6:00, for the UFO. It was gone, but the moon was still visible; indeed, this is what he used as a reference point for looking for the UFO. Why was Venus invisible? Buchert could still see stars in the west, at this time. That Buchert's sighting does not corroborate the P-13 sighting is clear from the fact that his UFO was stationary while he heard radio traffic on the chase, which began while he was driving to his home after first observing his UFO. There have been a number of intriguing explanations for the UFO marks, but none on which everyone will agree. They are, as yet, Unidentified Photographic Marks. But definitely not pictures; on this, there is universal agreement. DENSITOMETRIC ANALYSIS OF CHIEF BUCHERT'S FILM Using Weston Photographic Analyzer, Model #877; zero-adjusted (checked) after each reading. Probe aperture: 1.0 mm. 1 1.15 large UFO mark 2 1.21 small " " 3 1.21 light (dark on negative) space around large UFO mark 4 1.23 = " " " " " small " 5 1.18 dark area fanning away from large UFO mark 6 1.20 " " " " " small ** " 7 1.13 uncleared emulsion, spot at edge of film 8 1.02 undeveloped, but cleared, spot at edge (NOTE: a one-stop chemical was 9 1.35 space between 7 and 8, in edge area used....??) 10 1.26 background, near edge 11 1.24 # farther from edge 12 1.20 " still " " 11 , between UFO marks 13 1.18 " " " " up , beyond UFO area, on "line" between marks 14 1.14 18 mm from film edge, line between UFO marks 15 1.18 near opposite edge of film from marks 16 1.25 1st boundary space between family pictures, direction away from marks 17 1.18 2nd boundary space etc. 18 1.25 3rd etc. 19 1.22 4th etc. 20 1.16 what would be 5th boundary space etc. 21 1.93 dark area, white wood on house (dark on negative, light on print) 22 0.9 to 1.16 across from film left end to edge left picture ("left" -- "away 23 1.06 minimum density, right side (UFO mark side), in from UFO marks") chemical streak just at right edge of film "Zero image density" (boundary areas, average) 1.25 max., 1.16 min. This represents zero exposure to light. Is high, rather than around 0.25, because of fogging. Because UFO marks have less density than background in their area, they could not be due to a bright object in the camera's field of view, which would have exposed the film and darkened, increased the density of, the film. Following is a reproduction of the contact print of the film, showing UFO mark area and a section of one of the family pictures Chief Buchert took 3 hours later; and a sketch (which shows better in copying) of the UFO mark area. Boxed area on print shows area enlarged -- see next page. Film has been submitted to Ralph Rankow, NICAP Photographic Adviser, for further study. COPY PAPER 4 4 8 10 6 " b 12 4 13 3 2 14 15 20 19 18 17 16 21 23 FILM SKETCH 22 2 I ty 12 E 9 S II x12 enlargement BUCHERT PHOTO OI L 8 6 NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE INTERVIEW -- telephone notes May 6, 1966 USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR Phone call to Gerald Buchert, Chief, Mantua Ohio Police Department, this date (216-274-2551) 5:00 - 5:20 PM EDST (Pittwburgh) (Beaver). Buchert will send film to me in Pgh for NICAP analysis. Wants honest evaluation, even negative if that is the case. He is aware of Stanton's interest, and the Record-Courier articles on this. Copy of Hector Quintanilla's letter to him, dated April 22, on his photo: (photocopy of a sheet:) UNCLASSIFIED V66-14 SUBJECT: UFO (Mantua, Ohio) 1) Both images fall into the same frame area. 2) Neither of the minus density images are distinct enough to analyze. Average background density is 1.25. Image density 1.06. 3) If the object was bright against the dark sky, the images should be plus density. They are not. 4) The entire roll of film is severely fogged, which could cover up much detail. 5) The marks in the framing area of the film are outside the field of view of the 71 lens. Therefore they couldn't be images. 6) UFO's are probably the result of processing defects due to old, fogged film and poor handling. ANALYST: Major Quintanilla PI Lt. Benson LLB RLC Letter to Gerald Buchert from Major Quintanilla: (no letterhead, plain sheet:) The most probable cause of the object which you were trying to photograph was the planet Venus. This was the reason that you were unable to photograph it with your camera. In order to photograph Venus you would have had to photograph it with a time exposure. This cannot be done with the type of camera you were using. Thank you for your cooperation and your interest in this matter. (signed) Maj. Hector Quintanilla, Jr. USAF Chief of Project Blue Book Notes on Gerald Buchert's original police report, a copy of which was sent to Major Quintanilla: At 5:00 AM EST April 17, I heard radio traffice between Summit and Portage Counties on my cruiser radio, about a UFO reported in Summit County, a bright light coming east. At 5:04 I saw a bright light to the southeast. There was no fog and the sky was clear. The object moved left and right, and tilted as it did so, seeming then to be saucer- shaped. It also moved up and down. I went to my home and my wife watched it going through these maneuvers with me. I photographed it with a Kodak Brownie Starmite camera. My At this point in our conversation, someone came into the police station and Buchert interrupted the call to terminate it. Buchert wishes this information not to be released to the press. W. Weitzel A privately-supported fact finding body serving the national public interest *Marked "FTD TDEW wright. Patterson AFB" On the morning of April 17, 1966, I assisted in the development of a roll of film owned by Gerald Buchert, Chief, Mantua Village Police, upon which he had shortly before attempted to expose three image of an unidentified flying object observed by him and his wife, according to his account, southeast of his home in Mantua, Ohio. Participating in the development of this film, which was Ansco Pan 127, ASA 125, was Mr. Rex Lysyj, owner of the R&E Distributing Co., in Ravenna. The film was developed as follows: having been wound onto the take-up roll by Chief Buchert, and unloaded in this wound condition before coming to the place of development (the Portage County Sheriff's Office in Ravenna, Ohio), the paper backing was removed and the film loaded directly into the tank, with the latter pictures taken going in first. Since the emulsion side of the film was toward the axis of the tank, the images of the exposures were developed upside down. The film was processed for eight minutes in T-C 2 one-stop developer, with continuous agitation, at 69. The developer was mixed fresh, diluted 2/1/20 one/one with water, as in the instructions. Mr. Lysyj supplied the fresh solution. Immediately after development, we rinsed the film, still in the roll tank, for five minutes. Then we soaked it for four minutes in Yankee Film Dryer, according to the instructions. We then squeegeed it once and let it dry. The images to the right (film oriented right side up) of the family pictures taken later this morning picture by Chief Buchert, were two tiny dark arcs surrounded by a lighter halo, lighter than the rest of the film in that area. (That is, dark arcs 1 and light haloson the print; light arcs and dark halos on the negative). At no time during the processing of the film were any irregularities allowed; instructions were followed throughout. T-C 2 was used inten- tionally to "push" development and raise the exposure index. the office of My information on the communications between local officials and Major Hector Quintanilla of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, is as follows: Sunday afternoon, about 3:30, Major Q. called the Sheriff's office in Ravenna to inquire about the report of a photograph taken of the UFO sighted earlier that day. (April 17.) My next knowledge of communication from W-P AFB is that Tuesday after- noon, April 19, someone called to inquire why the film had not yet been sent to their office. This afternoon, April 22, I heard from a the reporter of a local newspaper office that Major Q. had explained the film's "UFO images" as a flaw in the negative, and this information was corroborated shortly afterwards, to me, by Chief Buchert, who said Major Q. had told him this about 3:10 this afternoon. I have read this statement which I dictated to , W. B. Weitzel, NICAP (Police Officer) and I find it to be exactly as I gave it to them. This statement is true in every detail, him. so HELP ME GOD. I agree that this information may be submitted to NICAP and or by them to a U. S. Congressional authority, but only confidentially. WITNESSED BY: april 22, (Signed) William Weitel, Deputy Sheiff NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR Received from William B.Weitzel a receipt for loanand return of my film negative bearing an image of anU.F.O., exposed by me on april 17,1966 whenattempting to photograph an U.F.O. THIS RECEIPT CONFIDENTIAL -NOT FOR PUBLICATION WITHOUT MY PERMISSION honering in the vicinity of Ravenna, Ohio. I verify that the negative, when last handled by Mr. Weitzel, before & regained possession of it on this date and sub- mitted it to the U.S.Air Force, was intact and showed. no evidence of mishanding on mr. weitzels part. april 20, 1966 signed, Gerald Buchert, mantua Village, Ohio, chief of Police april 20, 1966 A privately supported fact-finding body serving the national public interest DISCUSSION OF PROJECT BLUE BOOK INVESTIGATION OF PORTAGE COUNTY APRIL 17 UFO SIGHTING: I. The following is from AFR 200-2, reproduced in a book by Lt. Col. Lawrence J. Tacker, U.S.A.F., published by Van Nostrand, called FLYING SAUCERS AND THE U. S. AIR FORCE, which book was extracted and endorsed as "The Official Air Force Position" by "The Airman -- Official Journal of the Air Force" in its January, 1961 issue. AFR 200-2 was reproduced on pages 92-97 in Tacker's book. The Air Force subsequently disowned the "official" endorsement, but AFR 200-2 still stands as the basis for handling UFO sighting information, by Blue Book. 4b. Investigation. The commander of the Air Force base nearest the location of the reported UFO sighting will conduct all investigative action necessary to submit a complete initial report of a UFO sighting. Every effort will be made to resolve the sighting in the initial investigation. A UFO sighting reported to an Air Force base other than that closest to the scene of such sighting will be referred immediately to the commander of the nearest Air Force base for appropriate action. 15. Basic Reporting Data and Format. Show the abbreviation "UFO" at the beginning of the text of all electrical reports and in the subject of written reports. Include in all reports the data required, in the order shown below: a. Description of the Object(s): (1) Shape. (2) Size compared to a known object (use one of the following terms: Head of a pin, pea, dime, nickel, quarter, half dollar, silver dollar, baseball, grapefruit, or basketball) held in the hand at about arm's length. (3) Color. (4) Number. (5) Formation, if more than one. (6) Any discernible features or details. (7) Tail, trail, or exhaust, including size of same compared to size of object(s) (8) Sound. If heard, describe sound. (9) Other pertinent or unusual features. b. Description of Course of Object(s): (1) What first called the attention of observer(s) to the object(s)? (2) Angle or elevation and azimuth of object(s) when first observed. (3) Angle or elevation and azimuth of object (s) upon disappearance. (4) Description of flight path and maneuvers of object(s). (5) How did the object(s) disappear? (Instantaneously to the North, etc.) (6) How long was the object(s) visible? (Be specific, 5 minutes, 1 hour, etc.) c. Manner of observation: (1) Use one or any combination of the following items: Ground-visual, ground-electronic, air electronic. (If electronic, specify type of radar.) (2) Statement as to optical aids (telescope, binoculars, etc.) used and description thereof. (3) If the sighting is made while airborne, give type of aircraft, identification number, altitude, heading, speed, and home station. d. Time and Date of Sighting: (1) Zulu time-date group of sighting. (2) Light conditions. (Use one of. the following terms: Night, day, dawn, dusk.) e. Location of observer (s): Exact latitude and longitude of each observer, and/or geographical position. A position with reference to a known landmark also should be given in electrical reports, such as "2mi N of Deeville;" "3mi SW of Blue Lake." Typographical errors or "garbing" often result in electrically transmitted messages, making location plots difficult or impossible. /"garbing" sic -- W/ Example: 89 45N, 192 71W for 39 45N, 102 21W. DISCUSSION OF BLUE BOOK INVESTIGATION cont. (two) f. Identifying Information on Observer(s): (1) Civilian Name, age, mailing address, occupation, and estimate of reliability. (2) Military - Name, grade, organization, duty, and estimate of reliability. g. Weather and Winds. Aloft Conditions at Time and Place of Sightings: (1) Observer account of weather conditions. (2) Report from nearest AWS or U.S. Weather Bureau Office of wind direction and velocity in degrees and knots at surface, 6,000', 10,000', 16,000', 20,000', 30,000', 50,000', and 80,000* if available. (3) Ceiling. (4) Visibility. (5) Amount of cloud cover. (6) Thunderstorms in area and quadrant in which located. (7) Temperature gradient. h. Any other unusual activity or condition, meteorological, astronomical, or otherwise, which might account for the sighting. i. Interception or identification action taken (such action may be taken whenever feasible, complying with existing air defense directives). j. Location, approximate altitude, and general direction of flight of any air traffic or balloon releases in the area which could possibly account for the sighting. k. Position title and comments of the preparing officer, including his preliminary analysis of the possible cause of the sighting(s). (See paragraph 17.) 1. Existence of physical evidence, such as materials and photographs. 17. Comments of Preparing Officer. .... Every effort will be made to obtain pertinent items of information and to test all possible leads, clues, and hypotheses concerning the identity or explanation of the sighting. (See paragraph 5.) 5. Guidance. The thoroughness and quality of a report or investigation of UFO's are limited only by the skill and resourcefulness of the person who receives the initial information and/or prepares the report. The usefulness and value of any report or investigation depend on the accuracy and timeliness of its contents. Following are aids for screening, evaluating, and reporting sightings: a. Careful study of the logic, consistency, and coherence of the observer's report. An interview with the observer by personnel preparing the report is especially valuable in determining the source's reliability and the validity of the information given. Particular attention should be given to the observer's age, occupation, and education and whether his occupation involves observation reporting or technical knowledge. II. "What was this mirage you saw?" According to Deputy Sheriff Spaur, this is the comment with which Major Hector Quintanilla, Director of Project Blue Book, began his two and one half minute interview over the telephone from Wright-Patterson AFB on Monday morning, April 18, 1966. Before Spaur got into much detail about his participation in the UFO observation, Major Quintanilla asked if he had seen the object for more than a few minutes. When Spaur replied that he had, having chased it over several counties, the major asked who had the photograph allegedly (my phraseology -- W) taken of the object. Spaur told him, and the major terminated the interview. Spaur's next call from Major Quintanilla was three days later, when the major repeated his question about whether the object was in Spaur's view for more than a few minutes. Spaur replied in the affirmative, and the major terminated the interview, after talking about one and one half minutes. DISCUSSION OF BLUE BOOK INVESTIGATION cont. (three) The other participants in the P-13 sighting whom the news media widely mentioned as observing the same object, were interviewed by U.S.A.F. personnel as follows: Wilbur Neff ------------------------- rider with Dale Spaur. Mounted Deputy, Portage County Sheriff's Department. Present at May 10, 1966 interview by Major Quintanilla in the Portage County Court House. With Spaur, he filled out standard U.S.A.F. report form, and contributed one or two comments on the sighting. Was not addressed by name by the major, in the context of the interview. Gerald Buchert -- Chief of Police, Mantua Village, Ohio. Attempted to photograph a bright aerial object thought to be in the direction of the initial P-13 sighting. Visited by Major Quintanilla on May 10, 1966, after the Court House interview, at his home in Mantua. Discussed sighting for two hours. Major Quintanilla took a compass reading in the yard. Explained the apparent relative motion of the UFO with respect to telephone wires, as atmospheric fluctuations distorting the image of Venus. Mrs. Gerald Buchert -- Wife of Gerald Buchert. Present at Buchert's discussion with Major Quintanilla on May 10, 1966. Witness to Gerald Buchert's April 17, 1966 UFO. The major did not ask her any questions. Frank Panzanella -- Patrolman, Conway, Pennsylvania Police Department. Visited on May 18, 1966 by U.S.A.F. representative who claimed such investigations were not part of his regular job. The representative planned to spend 45 minutes with Panzanella so as to be able to visit former East Palestine Patrolman H. Wayne Huston in Columbiana, Ohio, but Panzanella took longer than this to prepare and type a one-page statement. No questions were asked, or verbal examination made. H. Wayne Huston -- Patrolman, East Palestine, Ohio Police Department at time of April 17 sighting. With Panzanella, Spaur, and Neff, he watched UFO over Conway, Pa. Also witnessed it flying toward him and overhead, from the northwest, while in radio contact with Deputy Spaur and Mounted Deputy Neff. Pursued it with them to Conway from Unity, Chio. Visited about May 19, 1966 by U.S.A.F. representative, who waited around the Rambler Garage in Columbiana, Ohio, where Huston now works (and was working then) full time. Huston had time to write two pages of testimony, but could not take time off from work for a thorough interview. At the May 10 interview, Major Quintanilla stated that he had originally thought the P-13 sighting (my phraseology -- W) was of a balloon, but that from a check of wind and balloon conditions in the area, had disconfirmed that explanation. His 1st final evaluation, offered on Friday, April 22, 1966 was that Spaur and Neff had first been frightened by an Echo satellite, then chased Venus, and that Spaur, Neff, Huston and Panzanella (by implication) had likewise observed Venus to the left of the moon at the end of the sighting. He did not explain the bright spot to the right of the moon which had been seen for some time that morning, nor the object Huston observed flying from the northwest. His explanation on May tenth of the reason for the deputies' seeing the UFO due north and due south, as the cruiser traveled due east, was that the road has bends. There are at least thirteen major points to be explained in regard to this sighting, which the "Echo -- Venus" conclusion does not encompass. For five weeks (Since May 17) Major Quintanilla has refused to comment on a letter sent to him, signed by him (Oertified) regarding these points. Although Major Quintanilla stated on May 10 that he simply collects testimony and never doubts an observer's word, in an interview printed in the Ravenna, Ohio Record-Courier from June 6 - June 10, 1966, he stated that an unpleasant aspect of his job is telling an observer that he didn't see what he thought he did, and he called the deputies' testimony an "exaggeration." DISCUSSION OF BLUE BOOK INVESTIGATION cont. (four) The presence of an Air Force investigator (Major Quintanilla) in Ravenna was the result of much effort by Congressman William Stanton, 11th District, Chio, and of the strong stands taken by him and by Judge Robert E. Cook, Portage County Common Pleas Court. Judge Cook expressed his dissatisfaction with the Air Force's investigation to Congressman Stanton in letters, and both gentlemen had interviews with Carol Clapp, which were published in the Ravenna, Chio, Record-Courier. (See news clippings section.) Congressman Stanton sent a letter of inquiry, including a NICAP report, to the Air Force Commanding General. When he failed to receive a reply, he visited the Pentagon in person and interviewed Lt. Col. John Spaulding, Director, Community Relations Division, U.S.A.F. Through Lt. Col. Spaulding's cooperation, the Portage County(-Conway, Pa.) case was re-opened. Despite Congressman Stanton's optimism, that a thorough investigation would "vindicate the statements made by Portage County police officers," Major Quintanilla did not reverse his original conclusion, that the deputies had become frightened of an Echo satellite, then chased Venus. The Air Force sent Congressman Stanton their second final conclusion, identical with the first. Judge Cook objected strongly in published statements. A NICAP letter to Major Quintanilla, received on his signature by Certified Mail May 20, pointing out as yet unexplained features of the sighting, was not answered. III. Publication of points in the photographic analysis of Chief Buchert's UFO picture has given misleading impressions. Perhaps the analyst was unaware of the details of the film's handling (see copy of analysis and Yokum's statement), but the conjecture about "poor handling" should have been suplemented, in publication of the analysis. "I don't know, but it seems that " is curious way to reach a conclusion, when the knowledge is easily available. Furthermore, point #5 in the analysis of the negative, stating that the UFO marks are outside the camera's field of view, leads one to wonder just what was examined for densitometer readings. The marks that were widely publicized are 10 mm from the edge of the film; the framing area starts at 2 mm. Still furthermore, the wording of Blue Book's conclusion on this photographic item implies that lack of a UFO picture means lack of a UFO. Yet the analysis itself vitiates such an inference; "old, fogged film", "severely fogged" film could not be expected to register a picture in the first place. And the inference that the film was worthless is vitiated by the presence of five pictures taken three hours later by Chief Buchert. It should be noted that, while the press release makes much of the lack of quality of the film and the development, Major Quintanilla's letter to Chief Buchert more fairly points out that the available light was too low, although he indicates, too low for Venus, not too low for a UFO image. The impression remains -- "No picture, no object." The result of all this has made Chief Buchert quite unfairly represented to the public. No press release has pointed out that he was ultra-conservative about the nature of the UFO, or whether it was noteworthy at all, or whether the pictures were of any value. His cooperation with Blue Book's request (NOTE -- "request", not "order") to keep the film intact, and his presence of mind in attempting to photograph the UFO in relation to a ground and to an astronomical object, have gone unnoticed; one is reminded of Deputy Sheriff Dave Brothers' remark (see page five, transcript of interview with Deputy Brothers.) The following excerpt from a recent UPI release illustrates the sort of picture Blue Book's handling of the UFO situation elicits in the public eye: WASHINGTON June 16, 1966: Unidentified flying objects, UFOS, sighted last April over Ohio are attributed to either hallucinations or phenomena in the sky that play tricks on the eye, according to testimony released here today, Lt. Gen. James Ferguson, Air Force Deputy Chief of Staff, testified before a House Subcommittee last April that most of the flying objects are explainable. Under questioning by U.S. Rep. William E. Minshall, R-Cleveland, .... NOTE ON CERTIFICATION OF NON-OBJECTION At Dale Spaur's request, I recorded his conference with Major Quintanilla. Spaur wanted some back-up at the meeting; Huston and Panzanella could not be present. Spaur released this tape to Carol Clapp, Tom Schley, and NICAP. Major Quintanilla was asked, before the recorder was started, if he had any objection to its being used; he indicated he did not. This document (with the photograph) is a second photocopy. The photograph shows the recorder on the floor across from Major Quintanilla's desk; the microphone on the edge of a shelf facing him. The photograph caption reads: "Quintanilla conference 5/10/66 position of tape recorder seen from behind desk at which Major Quintanilla was sitting verified by (Weitzel)." Testifying to the statement at the top of the page, and to the accuracy of the photograph, are: William Weitzel, NICAP Ross Dustman, Sheriff Dale Spaur, Deputy Sheriff Robert Wilson, Deputy Sheriff Wilbur Neff, Mounted Deputy d herely release the tape recording made at my request by William Weitzel of NI CA stand after ony comprence with Maj. Mector to William Waitel, Carol clapp Quintsnilla on this day of may 10,1966 & the Rovenna and 10m tchley of the Beaner, Pa. County discretion. Tomes, for sale at their figned Dale of Sacuri Title Deputy Shareff # 15 Date 5-10-66 NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE NORTH 7.9434 WASHINGTON D.C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES CABLE ADDRESS 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE. N.W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR The undersigned testify that they were present at and during the entire interview conducted by Major Hector Quintanilla, Jr., of Wright-Patterson AFB, in the Portage County, Ohio, Court House 1n Havenna, Chio, on May 10, 1966. The interview lasted about two hours, and during the entire time, a tane recorder and microphone were across the room from Major Quintanilla, in his sight. The recorder was running the entire time, and Major Quintanilla made no objection to its being used to record the Interview. Signature Title Date * William B Weight special Annestyator, NICAP 5-14-66 Kobert D.Wilson B.S. Napaty sharfff 6-4-66 Wilbur I neff mounted Deputy 5-22-66 #11 -14-66 Tan Washman 5-14-66 Tree photo, which, partly covernmy signature shows 202 ton ofrecarder. atpactor interview. R Weekal Records not true hodor uintanilla C inference 5/10/66 Mape recorder sedn behind Photograph verified: Dali #15 varified William L Niff mounted Deputy Robert Wilson B.S. of privalelysupporled fact-finding body sern 5/10/66 Portage County, Ohio Court House: UFO Investigation NOT Q Major Hector Quintanilla, Project Blue Book FOR S -- Deputy Sheriff Dale Spaur PUBLICATION N -- Mounted Deputy Wilbur "Barney" Neff W -- Deputy Sheriff Robert Wilson, Radio Operator D -- Sheriff Ross Dustman S -- (Filling out form) Here's a good question. Excuse me, sir. It says, "We wish to know the angular size. Hold a match stick at arm's length in line with a known object, and note how much the object is covered by the head of the match." It'd take a hell of a boxcar load of matches to cover that thing up. This is at the time we seen it? Q -- Mm hmm. S -- You're not gonna believe it. Q -- Put it down the way you experienced it. Don't, uh, S -- The head of a match. This thing was like a three bedroom ranch home at the time right then. (Silence follows.) S -- (Drawing) This part here; we couldn't tell how much was in there. This part here was so bright, the bottom of it, you couldn't tell how far anything went down in there. This was real bright; this front part would change its angle of trim. It would start toward you, you could just see part of the back third of it probably. (Cough) angled off, would come south of us, or go back on the north side of the road that we were going down. Q -- Mm hmm. S -- Or it would maneuver, this part would be a real bright, blue light, or a white-blue light, like a mercury vapòr or something; a white light. The only thing that would change is, it would get brighter when it would go up, and then it would seem like it would lose part of its intenseness, of the light, as it would come back down to us. The only part we could see that was metal was this part right here; this is where we could see the one pro- jection on it -- this is our radio operator (just entered room) that night too; he's studying, going to medical school (Wilson has on white uniform) there was this one projection on it that we could see at any time; there were a couple times it made the same maneuver we couldn't see it Q -- At this time could you see all this? S -- Yes. Very Clearly. Very clear, there was no problem at all, as a matter of fact, the lighter it got, the better we could see it. At first we could only follow the light, and this one projection against the sky as it started to get light; silhouette, like when it would want to go, just like, if you were gonna make a right bank in an aircraft, and you drop your wing down and the top comes into view. When it would do this, you could see this one projection on the back. Fifteen or eighteen feet long, it would appear to be. This is strictly an estimate. Q -- Sure. S -- We could see it very clearly. Now when it would go back north away from us, all we could see was the bottom of it, the light part; we couldn't see any other metallic part of it. The metallic part that we could see -- 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 2 Q -- You couldn't see any shape to it, you just saw the light. S -- Right, at first it was a completely clean cut light, there was no fog to it of anything; a beautiful brilliance to it and it was clear. When it would go past us on the south side, and it would start back, when you looked out you could get the same angle on the other side of this ship, or whatever you want to call it. But that's the metallic part that you could see. You could see it very plain, and it was like an aluminum top that's been used for a while; it was definitely a silver, or light color, but it wasn't like chrome; it was silver color but it wasn't polished silver. Smoky silver. Dull silver, or whatever you'd call it; it was, I saw it very plainly. Q -- How did it travel? S -- Well, it seemed like the nose part of this thing, like when it was going, it seemed like it, this, when it was going forward, the nose part would be down. Like the light part of this outer rim here, the center of it, was reflecting up on it. Against it. ... When it wanted to go forward, it would go at an angle like this; if it wanted to go straight up, it would level out; if it wanted to go to the right, it, just like it was gonna make a right bank only it was a -- N -- Slide. S -- Just like it slid, it was -- Q -- (Fluttering hand through air) Did it ever do this? S -- No sir, it never staggered. Q -- It didn't zig-zag? S -- No, sir. It was all, beautiful maneuvers; they were clean, they were, there was no, uh, there was no washout in them at all. Q -- Ever go up or down, sideways? S -- It made a climb for altitude in Canfield, when we first saw it it climbed for altitude about five hundred feet, it maintained that for quite a while, we got over Berlin reservoir, it went up some more; I'd say it probably picked up another two hundred fifty, three hundred feet, when it went to the north side of the road for the last time. When we got to Canfield, It went up, to about, I'd say pretty close to two thousand feet because it was getting up there pretty good. After it cleared the area of Canfield, over the city park, on the outskirts where we were going through, it came back down going in towards Columbiana county to I'd say about fifteen hundred feet, maybe a thousand, fifteen hundred. Right along there we were, by then we'd covered quite a bit of ground. And I suppose right along that area, I think about a thousand, a thousand five hundred feet, is where we picked up the other car. Q -- Conway. S -- No, sir, this was out of East Palestine. .. (silence) 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 3 Q Would you two gentlemen mind leaving for a few minutes? He can tell you all he knows afterwards. (Pause while Webb and Weitzel exit. When you, when you gentlemen first saw this thing, how low was it on the ground? S -- Well, we, when we first saw it, actually it came up behind us -- see, Bob radioed first; to make a long story short: Summit County Sheriff's Office radioed, we had a, it's all 39.58 megacycles, and we monitor all traffic in our car -- Q -- Mm hmm. S -- And Bob was talking to Summit County and Summit County told him that this object had been seen and the lady had just called in /(or "that a lady")/ that said there was this real huge bright object, higher than a street light and lower than an airplane, and, uh, you get quite a few calls (chuckle) in the police business. And actually, we were working on a traffic accident; we had just finished up, there was reports in, we paid not very much, well very little attention to it then, and I heard Bob tell the other operator you know, the lady must have drank too much, you know, to forget it. So we were finished up, and the man from the power company out handling the hot wires on the line that had been torn down -- we went down to a restaurant at the corner in Deerfield, bought three cups of coffee, and we came back out and we gave the man in the power truck a cup of coffee, since it was pretty cool out, and we each had one and we were drinking as we went, you know, just tear a hole in the plastic lid so you can kind of sip as you go along. While we were sitting there talking to him, well there was more traffic on the radio. So the guy in the truck, he made a couple of comments, you know, and I said maybe the moon's changing, you know, and some of the wherd ones are out tonight, something to this effect. So we started east on 224-> we were going to come over to Brimfield, Mogadore area, which we have a lot of business, shopping plazas, couple or three banks and stuff that we keep a pretty close eye on; we patrol all the buildings. so we're starting back across 224 about a mile and a half or two miles east# of 183 on 224, when we passed an old Ford at the side of the road, a '59 Ford, SO, I told him we'd best chekk it out, and we went up the road and we made a U turn, came in behind the car, because at this point this is all standard work, I mean it's the same with any $1164 department -- Q -- Mm hmm. S -- He gets out the right side, I got out the left side, he goes to the right fromt corner of the cruiser, which is where he stops -- sort of an insurance policy -- I got out the left and I' went to the left rear of the other vehicle. I turned just to make a sort of visual observation **** of the area, to make sure nobody had walked into the woods, you know, to take a leak or something. And I always look behind me so no one can come up behind me. And when I looked, in this wooded area, behind us, I saw this thing. At this time it was coming up. And there's a slight raise there; went up to about treetop level, I'd say about a hundred foot. It started moving towards us. At this time he was still looking straight ahead. And I - Q, -- You say treetop level, now: you don't get a distance that way except that you're on the ground. S -- OK Q -- So: would you say that that's maybe thirty degrees elevation that you were on the ground and looking up -- depends on the trees, of course. AT THE POINT WHERE I SAW EAST on 224 I MENT wesT. I WAS A LiTTle MAD AT THIS POINT OF THE INTERVIEW. Dale F. Spaur 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 4 S -- Well, now the trees that it was clearing was right on top of this one raise right beside the road directly to the berm of the road. And at the time that when I was watching it, it was, it was so low that you couldn't see it until it was right on top of you. Q -- Mm hmm. S -- As it came over the trees, I looked at Barney and he was still watching the car, the car in front of us, and he didn't say nothing and the thing kept getting brighter and the area started to get light, and I looked at Barney this time and then I told him to look over his shoulder. So he did. (Someone chuckles). He didn't say nothing, he just stood there with his mouth open for a minute, and as bright as it was and he looked down. And I started looking down and I looked at my hands and my clothes weren't burning or anything when it stopped, right over on top of us. The only thing, the only sound in the whole area was a hum. And it'd just change a little bit. It wasn't anything screaming or real wild. But you, it'd sound like a transformer being loaded or an overloaded transformer when it changes. Q -- Like an AC hum, something like that? S -- Yeah. When it would -- no, it was like when you load it, when it changes like it, I don't know exactly. You remember the old pitchpipe in the school when the teacher blows it and then she moves up one notch on it? Well it's -- Q -- Oh yes, yes, yes. S -- You remember, when you were gonna sing a song -- Q -- No matter what you sing, yeah -- S -- You sing God Bless America; that's against the law, now, isn't it --- (Laughter) S -- Well, anyway, it's, I don't know exactly how long I was, uh, I was pretty scared for a couple minutes; as a matter of fact, I was petrified; and, uh, so I moved my right foot, and everything seemed to work all right. And evidently he made the same decision I did, was to get something between me and it, or us and it, or whatever you would say. So we both went for the car, we got in the car, and we set there, I'm, I wouldn't even venture if it was ten seconds, thirty seconds or three minutes, I just know we -- Q -- OK; let's back up. From S -- OK. Q -- From the time that you saw, this thing, up until the time that it came over you, how many minutes would you estimate? S - To come over top of us? Q -- The time that you first saw it, you said, over the tree level. Coming up, 'til it stood over you. How many minutes did that take? S -- Probably a minute. That's, I mean id didn't take very long, but it was too close -- when we seen it, there was just this one divide down there, and this one little wooded area that we couldn't see over the top of, and, I mean, I didn't, I couldn't even say if it came over -- I 77.0/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 5 Q -- Well, let's try and get a feel for the time, Dale -- S -- But it was no more than a minute or so, because it was right on top of us before I ever seen it. And it stood there, and it hovered, and we didn't make any, anything, and I didn't touch nothing, Barney didn't say nothing. And it moved right out east of us, and it came back down, and it moved right out east of us, just right away from us, and sat there for a second, right out east of us (sic), just right away from us, and sat there for a second, and nothing still didn't happen to me, and Barney looked all right; and I punched the mike button and the light came on, so I picked. it up, and I first started to tell them, you know, this thing was there. And I thought, well, if I do, he'll think, I thought, well, maybe I'm too excited; so I just told Bob on the radio, I said, "This bright object is right here, the one that everybody says is going over." And he comes back with like something (sic), "Shoot it!" you know, or something. W -- No, see, I thought it was a weather balloon, see; everybody's talking about swamp gas -- Q -- For God's sake, don't, don't shoot down weather balloons, 'cause -- W -- Yeah, that's what Shoenfelt says; Shoenfelt was in there too; everybody really got excited all of a sudden, see. And I thought, you know, it was one of heseoptical phenomena .... I thought, well, if it was a weather balloon, we'll shoot it down and send it back in to the government .... and clear this thing up once and for all .... after we got to thinking it over, it wasn't such a good idea to shoot it down, so much! Q -- (garbled) S -- So, with this thought in mind, I waited a minute, and I had some things to say, but I didn't. And it just set there, and I could, right out east of us, right straight sprung out in the center, I mean, well it was low, and it was big, and great God Almighty, it was like -- Q -- OK, Dale. When it came up to the top -- S -- Right. Q -- To where it set in the east -- garbled) didn't you say, it was going east, and setting -- how long did that take? S -- It just -- it just moved right up and stopped; it didn't go any distance, it wasn't, it wasn't a hundred, it wasn't two hundred fifty feet in front of the car. And everything was lit up, it was real bright, and it was low, and at this time if I'd have had to describe it, I'd have said it just looks like a, a, a, hell, it was big as a house! This thing was, uh, it was no toy; this, this thing is, I mean, you don't look up and say, a guy holds up and says, "From this pin, how much would you say it was covered?"! This thing is, uh, big enough to cover the road! This is 224 from berm to befm, this thing would have covered. It was a, a, I never had this, uh, like looking down the middle of hell, or something, for a minute. And it was very bright; it'd make your eyes water. And, uh, Shoenfelt came in, my sergeant, and he says, "Do you have a camera?" And I said, "No sir, I don't have one." Or, I don't think I said "sir", I said, "No, I don't", or something. And he said, "Can you follow it? Or stay with it or keep it under observation; we'll get a camera car there, we'll get somebody there with a photo unit, we'll photograph it, so we can identify it." So I said "10-4", and we started moving up to it again, or out behind it; we went to 183; we had to go direct south; when we turned south, 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 6 it was right behind us then, right directly to the, to the rear of the car and we were going south; right directly behind us. We got back to 224 and we turned left, this is right at Atwater. When we got there, it put it right straight out the left window of the car, excuse me, almost due north of the car. At this time, it came straight south, just one motion, buddy, just a smooth glide, went right to the south side of the highway, took off east again, right of us, and we was pacing it, right along the side of it. Ground speed at this time would stay right at eighty six miles an hour. Right straight with it, right straight out the window, right at the corner of the windshield, Barney watching it, and me watching it, as it was going over the area, at this time, it was no more, after it gained altitude, no more than between three and five hundred feet, 'cause it was light on the ground underneath of it. It was, the illumination from it, when it crossed that big crane, where the strip field is and stuff, you could see it just as plain as you can see that telephone. And this was before daylight. It came, from the, through Deerfield circle, 'cause I know I had to go between a tractor and a trailer, it came back out and started east again, towards Berlin, right over Deerfield circle, they were trying to get two camera cars from Salem up there, two cars with cameras in them, and they were coming north, straight east; at this time, this thing, whatever you want to call it, picked probably up another hundred and fifty feet over the water, 'cause that's when I started the light up under it, wasn't it, right about Berlin, that it went -- come straight back across the car, to the north side of the road, and we started towards, through Mahoning county. This time it was around one hundred and three; clocking it, and we stayed right with it; ground speed was the same. Never, -- Q --- You were doing a hundred and three, this thing you say was to the left of you? S -- Yes sir. Right to the left of us. It had come back to the north side of the road, and -- Q -- Was the window down, or the windshield was up? S -- The windshield -- oh, the window. Yeah. The window was up. So we -- we followed it, the only time it raised, the next time it raised again, was it, we had to make one angle turn there, and it came back to us, this is the first good look to it, was just about then, right, just after we crossed Berlin reservoir we were going into Mahoning county. Q -- Mm hmm. S -- And it, and when it come back south towards us, and when it did, it angled, you could see it silhouetted against the sky, and the beam of it was (masked by unidentified cough) it was going straight behind it from the way it was going would stay behind it. And you could see the whole back third of a metallic object. Or, what appeared to be metallic to me, you could see it just as plain as, silhouetted against the sky, and I thought then we could identify it. I really thought that, that there would be something that I would know what it was. And I could see only one projection. And all this I kept radioing back. Everything that I, everything I seen, I gave it to the other cars, and Bob on the radio; I gave it to the other counties as I was going, so that if we cracked up, somebody would know that there was something there. So: the sergeant came in, and he said, "Well stick with it as long as you can, until we get another car in pursuit with cameras and break off your pursuit." So: 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 7 this goes on, it changed direction probably two or three more times, we got tangled up once at a couple of intersections (indistinct word) -- N -- We went into Canfield, it'd come across the front of the road, -- D -- Turned off to the right -- N -- And we turned off to the fight. And it was over to the right of us then, and that throwed it back over to the left hand side of the cruiser. And it seemed like it just went off the road and quit; when we was going a little bit south, it turned and come right back with us. South. S -- It, uh, it seemed like, uh, we only got, we only passed, uh, very little traffic, I uh, we, uh, -- Q -- When this thing was right in front of you, in the windshield, what portion of the windshield were you able to see it was (masked) S -- You mean when it first moved out from us ? Q -- Yeah. S -- When it first moved out from us, all you had to do was set there, right & (unfinished word) - just look out the windshield, it was right there; right dead in the center. Q -- Well what portion of the windshield was it? The top? Bottom? Middle? S -- Just about the middle of it. Just right straight through it. Well, now, I say the middle of it, it would be the (--) 0 Q -- Top -- $ -- (continuing) top better third of the windshield. After it moved out in front of us. 'Cause it was, it was very close. I never seen anything like it. It was a monster. Uh, I don't, I mean it looked like a monster to me. The only time, the most altitude it ever got was, I know it wasn't over two thousand feet, that was when we come in, when it passed over the top of Wayne Huston. And that was about the highest point, there, until after we got to the mountain, before we went into Rochester. And then it changed again, it came back over once, this, Wayne got a real good look at it, it was all the way to the, all the way to down to the side of the road, it goes back north again. Then we started down through this one place, that, I believe, I don't remember the name of it, I wasn't reading very many of the signs a t the time. And I was in strange country. So Wayne knows the roads real well, so he was helping me out, he was telling me which way I'd have to make the turns, as I went. And we thought we'd lost it; because we said, "This will be it, we're gonna lose it right here." Q -- What time was this? (Unidentified loud laugh) S -- Well, (Mixed talking: Spaur, Neff, Wilson; "after five") Q -- It was after five when you started (chuckle). S -- I don't know exactly what time it was, but we thought we 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 8 (Final time determination unsettled here) S -- I don't know exactly what time it was, but we thought we were gonna lose it. There was about twenty to twenty five seconds probably, through this one thing there. We came back out, we could see it again, we went through this mass of turns, and at this point it was just, I had my hands full of car! N -- That's where 51 hooked up with 59, south of Rochester, next to the city limits, might even be in the city limits, but it's a bypass around the edge of town when you (indistinct; might be "get into the curves. S -- See, he knew the roads; they were just giving me instructions. And I'm driving. At this time, I thought we'd lost it, so when we came out of 51, and I first looked up in the mirror to make sure Wayne had made that last turn because we had power turns, you know, brakes screaming, slide through them, because otherwise you couldn't get enough power coming out. And just as I kicked in passing gear, and I felt my car correct, I looked up in the mirror to see Wayne and I steen the nose of his car go down, and he says, "It stopped," and I looked right ahead of us and there it was. It came right over route 51, and it lost probably half its altitude, so help me God, it went down over 51, waited as we came up to it, it went right up to the left, it went right straight up about about five, six, seven hundred feet and took off again, right at the same pace, so it - N --- When it wanted to raise, it didn't go up partways, it just went straight up, then went out. S -- Yeah. I never seen nothing like it, in my life. And on the other development, they were trying to get Chippewa barracks on it. And they finally got a radio operator awake. We were out of our frequency range, we were like a, where there were no more cars. So we started again, by then we were getting towards Freedom, and every time we'd hit a long curve, or anything, I'd started picking up air, I was running out of gas. Get to Freedom, still right there. When we got tangled up, it just slowed down. We came out of the other end of Freedom, going out of Conway, which I guess that's, starts into west Pittsburgh, -- N -- Seventeen or eighteen miles, from that town to Pittsburgh; you stopped at the end of Conway. Q -- Yeah, I've checked it out. S -- I saw this cruiser sitting in a filling station, and I told Wayne, I said there's another car; I was already out of fuel anyway, and my tires were pretty well burnt up, so I shot in this place, and we told him what was happening; he called his dispatcher, his dispatcher said he had the airport on the phone, which they say they didn't, now. And they even gave us a phone number for me to call back, which they say we didn't, but I did. And I don't know who I talked to, I forgot the guy's name, but I remember the last part of the number, it was four thousand, I think, or four hundred or something like that, when we went to the police station. At that point, when we first got there, and watched this thing, or watched the moon, or part of it, the quarter moon was here, and there was like where a man in the moon would have been in the pictures they draw, there was one bright spot right off the, about where the nose would have been on the moon, but the bright spot had been there, I don't know how long the bright spot 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 9 had been there, it was quite a while. But when we were watching, it would have been, at this time, -- of course that spot was awful small, it wasn't as big as this, that we were watching. And we were about the same, we watched it right through an antenna. Four officers standing side by side. Watched an airliner come out of the airport, go right underneath of it; he was taling on the radio, he told them that he thought, you know, asked them about, they had traffic on scrambling fighters to see if they could intercept it or identify it. When they started talking about fighter planes, we could see these planes coming in, now we were, they said they weren't there, but I s (unfinished) so I had another hallucination. (Laughter unidentified) S -- When they started talking about fighter planes, it was just as if that thing heard every word that was said, it went PSSSSHHEW, straight up; and I mean when it went up, friend, it didn't play no games; it went straight up. Q -- There were no fighter planes that were scrambled. S -- There were no fighter planes. Q -- Talked to the tower operator at the Greater Pittsburgh Airport. S -- That's the one I called back. That's four oh -- I forget the number now. But I know it was three zeros in it, whatever the number was. Now, the radio traffic was about the airplanes. Now the other airplanes was right in the area, and we watched that airliner go directly underneath of it, all four of us. And all that guy'd had to've done was look straight up, 'cause it was setting right on top of him. And he went right under it. And at this time, its altitude and its distance, and at this time, it was as, if you were looking at it, compared to an object that you wanted to see, it was as big as a washtub then. Even after it went up the first time and we were standing right there watching it. Q -- See, the tower operator at Pittsburgh didn't pick up anything. The radar didn't pick up anything, and that's why no aircraft were scrambled. (Low voice, not sure of a few words /W. w./) S -- Well, now, see, this is, this is the different stories we get; we understand that there was, planes scrambled down here when this whole thing first started. Q -- Talked with Colonel Hendricks at Youngstown; he scrambled no aircraft whatsoever at the time. He said he doubted if he could get his men up at five thirty in the morning to go out, and chase uh -- s -- Something that isn't there, Venus, and I understand it, really. (Chuckle unidentified) Q -- No, it's it's (sic) just that they're not on duty at the time, see, so there's (discussion of what planes are in air, ready, etc. Spaur complaines about brevity of interview when he called in from Penn- sydvania. Quintanilla explains it was the radio operator, busy controlling air traffic.) S -- No. I say that who their radio operator was talking to, I don't know -- 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 10 Q -- No, he called radar. S -- Because I know that, it was, the traffic that came back is that they thought there was fighters scrambled in the area. When they said "fighter planes, that thing really went, buddy, it really went. It didn't monkey around, it just PHSSSSSEW, straight up, just as though it could stand there and listen to us, it was like it had a radio on it or something. Q -- I uh, I, I don't want you to feel that I'm disputing anything -- S -- No! Q -- I'm just telling you what I know. S -- Oh! Well, that's, that's, -- Q -- From your information, the information which I have been able to check, checking out all the balloon activity in this area, all the aircraft activity in this area, especially in the rocket( (?) you were following at the time, -- at one time, because of the description I felt that maybe you were chasing a balloon. But, uh, there were no balloons in the area. And, uh, -- S -- Are those balloons propelled? Or, what, I was under the -- Q -- They go with the wind. ... (discussion of wind velocity/ altitude differences that morning. Major Quintanilla produces information on this.) S - I didn't know any kind of wind was blowing. Q -- This is one of the reasons I asked for that information; wind velocities, not only that, but also the temperatures. In this whole area around here, especially the area in which you followed -- my job is to try to determine what these things are. It's not a very pleasant one, believe me. W -- What did you do, that got you this kind of a job? Q -- I really don't know (chuckle) I've often asked myslef that question. I checked out everything. I checked the radar, at Oakdale, which is further this way, and checked the one at Greater Pittsburgh. They had nothing. Absolutely nothing. S -- There were no aircraft there. Q --- There were aircraft, but they were aircraft that were coming in and taking off. ... (Description of how radar is used, for bringing in airplanes. Description of network for radar pickup of satellites.) I checked with them. The only thing that they had over this particular area was satellite Echo. I don't know whether you raalize it or not, but there are at least thirty satellites that are visible to the naked eye. And these things have a northeasterly and a southeasterly component. Except three. Three of them have what we call retrograde (motion?). And they have an east-west component. These are sort of bastard satellites, that weren't supposed to go that way, but the booster system kind of goofed 'em up and put 'em in a different orbit. And I checked thoroughly with my, I had a thirty five minute conversation, to put the information into a computer. And this is why I made the determination spceifically, because of the directions which you gave me. That you had first spotted the 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 11 satellite coming over, and then focused on Venus. Venus at that night, that's a typical night, was at a magnitude of -3.9. Which is the brightest thing in the sky, except for the moon. S -- Well, I (indistinct) Q -- (Indistincs; could be, "Literally everything we've got.") S -- Well, I don't know anything about it, but I -- I'm under the impression that -- two things I'm under the impression of, whether(?) I have a miscon- ception of -- Q -- No, you aren't, Dale, it's not a misconception Dale, it's -- you're not the first one to chase that. S -- No, I (indistinct) (less than 1 second) oh, I definitely, I won't chase a, I, I know damn well I wasn't chasing a satellite, first of all -- Q -- You weren't chasing a satellite, I didn't say you were chasing a satellite. S -- As I understand it, a satellite orbits at about seven thousand three hundred and some miles an hour, to seven thousand five hundred. I may be wrong. Second of all, I think that if it was in the atmosphere as close as this thing was, as large as it was, it would have probably burned up at that speed. Second of all, I'm under the impression that our satellites doesn't stop and go and go up and down; this is one thing, I didn't know it could maneuver, but it was -- Q -- Well, they zig-zag. They don't zig-zag, 'cause a satellite is in perfect motion. But it gives the illusion of zig-zagging. It gives the illusion of movement. But it's not because the satellite itself is moving, it's because the eyeball does this. Your eyes, my eyes, and his eyes. S -- Second of all, I'm under the impression that Venus rises out of the east, as the morning star. And this is probably another thing that's wrong, I'm not sure. Q -- Depends. Depends. S -- Huh? Q -- Sometimes it'll rise right over you. S -- on. OK. So anyway -- Q -- Venus -- Venus -- Venus today, (papers rattling) rises at 02:49 in the morning. And it rises 150° azimuth and 25° elevation. It doesn't have to rise low on the horizon, it can rise high. But it's on the ecliptic, yes. S -- OK, so it's on the ecliptic. Granted, you have this. Now -- this, this thing is this large; this big and this low; and these people watched this thing from over in the Mogadore area; they report it, and I follow it, and I have Barney with me, we're going down the road; so you're gonna discount, well, there's two nuts; we're running Venus. Now Venus -- 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 12 Q -- Now, now wait a minute -- S -- Well, wait a minute, let me speak -- (Voices mixed, loud) Q -- you used the wrong word -- S -- OK -- well, -- Q -- I'm an officer in the United States Air Force -- S -- Right -- you definitely are -- Q -- and I don't call anybody a nut! S -- No, OK. I have hallucinations then! But this is, what I've been saying -- Q -- I didn't say you were having hallucinations. S -- What I'm trying to say is this: I'm going down the road; now this thing, that I am following, -- Q -- And treat me with the same respect that I treat you. S -- I will sir, I am; I'll treat you with more respect than I've been treated the last -- Q -- I'm not calling you a nut, I'm not saying you had hallucinations. S -- All right, the last twenty days! Anyway, this thing passes over another police car. He watches it go by, he's spotted it now. This is two cars, that's fixed on Venus. So we're going down the road. And we get into Conway, Pennsylvania, and this thing passes over the third car, that's sitting there. Not even on the same frequency, I never met, seen, spoke to before nor after this, another officer. He's watching the same thing as it goes over top of him, going towards Pittsburgh, as we come screaming in. Now: we watched it, four men, standing right there, four officers. Probably, you say anything you want, we stood right there, watched it, watched the plane go underneath of it, and watched it make a vertical climb straight up, and this, sir, Q -- Disappeared. S -- (continued) my knowledge is God's truth. Yes sir. The only thing left to even look at, after we went to the station and called the guy, was the one bright spot that was there, the sun was up coming up full and the moon was fading out. It was about a quarter of a moon, and right straight off that moon, which would have been to the south of the moon if you were looking west, was one bright spot. I'd say it was probably, would look like a pencil eraser, real bright. W -- That was the mother ship. S -- Huh? The other ship -- W -- That was the mother ship! S -- Oh, the mother ship. You guys are gonna have me convinced pretty soon; aw, give me a tranquilizer and some coffee! (This right have been 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 13 (Laughter) S -- This thing was to, would have been to the left, which was the north of it, and we watched it, it went up, stopped, the airliner went under it, and then it went straight up. Just as straight up, as, well, just, straight up. And there -- I, uh, I wouldn't conceive of what, I know that people, uh, can get fixed on something maybe, or something like that; but I don't think that -- I don't see how that, uh, myself and another cruiser and another guy and all this could go over. Chasing Venus. I, uh, I won't concede a part of it. I know that there's, uh, this may be a way to discount it or what it is, but I know that it was there, I seen it very painly, -- Q -- Dale, it's not a question of discounting; we're trying to get into the (one word fuzzy) we're trying to make the determination as to what it was. S -- Sir, if I could tell you what it was, believe me, Major, I -- I myself, and like I said before, if I told you that I seen a Ford going down the highway, you'd know what I was talking about. And if you said, "Gee, there goes a Chevrolet," you would assume the fact that you identified it and I know what it is. The same thing with an aircraft, you say, "There goes a B-29," and I say, "Yep, sure is, that's an old war-horse," or something to this effect, and it's identified. This, I have never seen nothing like it before or after, or in the wildest far-fetched imagination. I know you can have an optical illusion, or even see somtehing moving, or like if you look through a piece of glass or something (--) Q -- Yeah, distortions. S -- (continued) I can go along with this. But nothing this big, that it ever even looked, or, in my wildest dreams I don't think I could have ever imagined or seen anything like it. Now -- what it is I don't know, where it came from I don't know, who it belongs to I don't know, but it definitely was there, and, uh, it'd take something just short of heaven or hell, one, to change my mind, me personally, because of the fact that I don't think that anyone could follow something that low and that far, and not be able to determine that they were actually in the pursuit of something, and I don't think that there could be that much mass hysteria. Possibly, somebody might be able to figure it out. I don't know. But this thing was there, I seen it very plainly; I seen it outside the car, I saw it inside the car, and I saw it from outside the car after I got to Conway, Pennsylvania. And I would hate to think that I gambled this man's life, and a lot of other people's lives, chasing Venus. I don't believe for an instant that I was following Venus. I don't know how to explain it. I don't have the slightest idea. But sir, this thing was as real as (indistinct word) -- Q -- You know -- Dale -- I'm just going to say this for whatever it's worth: you're not the first one it's happened to. S -- Well, I don't doubt that for a minute, There're seventeen -- Q -- (masks part of Spaur's statement) Two weeks -- two weeks before your report came in, I had a report from a woman in Interstate, Iowa .. (muffled) S -- (muffled) Q -- (muffled) 5/10/66 QSNWD partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 14 Q -- The Air Force doesn't pay me to, to how many cases they get, or (muffled) S -- Well, I very well understand this. Q -- We analyze it, and evaluate it. S -- I very well understand that. And I respect your position. But -- Q -- I've checked every bit of activity. Every bit of it. And -- and then your -- the information which I got before -- is just the same infor- mation that you gave in the forms. (Papers rattling) On the telephone. D -- Well, I, I feel this way about it. It's too damn bad that these things are running around through our sky over our heads, and the United States Air Force and the government doesn't know what's going on out thore. Because there's too many of them, and there's too many people have seen it; and there certainly must be something to it. a -- Sheriff -- There are, like I said before, at least twenty per cent of SAC is up in the air at all times. For one reason only. Radar stations are all over this country. Not only in the interior, but in the exterior. They operate on a twenty four hour schedule. D -- That's what I thought they did. Q -- Did you? Three shifts. Eight hours, twenty four hours a day. W -- What does the Air Force think these are, Major? Q -- Hmm? W -- What does the Air Force think these are? Q -- Misinterpretation of conventional objects and natural phenomena. We have over ten thousand, two hundred cases on file at Wright-Patterson. This goes back to 1947. Last year, just to show you -- (muffled; movement at desk) Last year we had 245 astronomical cases. ... (discussion of statistics) (categories into which reports are put are read: Astronomical, Aircraft, Balloons, Insufficient Data, Other.) W --- What category does this go under? What Dale saw? Q -- Place it in the category of satellite and astronomical observations. ...... (Discussion of photo taken recently) Q - Sheriff, (indistinct) it's been unpleasant, but, uh, I've checked all the activity. (Indistinct) this is one of the reasons why I stayed home, so I could check all the activity. Because it's a lot easier for me, to check with my communications channels; sit in the office and just punch buttons, and say, "OK, get me Akron, "Get me Cleveland," "Get me Toledo," and then check out the information. This is exactly the gyrations I went through. D -- Well, I'm sorry it's turned out this way, because I know a lot of people have come to me and they saw the same damn thing, and there's too many people involved for this thing to be a mirage, or somebody's imagination; I don't, uh, I'm like Dale; nobody will ever convince me it wasn't something actual that's up there. ... (Discussion of capabilities of radar.) 5/10/66 QSNWD, WW, DW partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 15 (Those who had exited return to room: Carol Clapp, Tom Schley, David Webb and William Weitzel. County Prosecutor brings in coffee. Clapp and Schley take press photographs. WW questions Q; DW questions S.) WW -- You seem to be skeptical about the physical reality of unidentified flying objects. Q -- I'm not skeptical about anything. I look at people's statements, and the information that is given to me. WW -- Well, may I ask your own opinion about these things? Do you think there is any common denominator among the reports? Q -- No, there isn't. There is no parallel whatsoever. WW -- You mean, out of all the ten thousand reports, they're all completely different? Q -- I said that (indistinct here). There is no character(?) -- WW -- But you -- you chtegorize them. Q -- (continuing) there is --- Of course I categ -- categorize them. The characteristics of satellites are the same! WW -- You mean all these reports are due to satellites? Q -- Oh, I didn't say that. WW -- Well, I asked you (tape runs out. WW turns reel over to side 2.) WW -- How do you account for the maneuvers of this UFO? If it was a satellite? Q -- He had atmospheric noises. (Indistinct sentence. Laughter.) WW -- Not that kind of noise. Q -- No, it's, uh, there's atmospheric noise. I've seen it myself. WW --- Visual? Q -- Yes. This is the reason I carry binoculars with me at all times. WW -- How about the fact that it was seen north, when they were driving east, and it seemed due south, when they were driving 8- Q -- They were changing direction. WW -- Yeah, but -- see, they saw this to the east -- to the north when they were going east, it was to their left. And then when they were going south, it was ahead of them. Q -- You have to get on the road, and I'm checking on the road, and this thing would have been to the left. 5/10/66 QSNWD, WW, DW partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 16 ww -- Yeah, but when they're heading south, and it's ahead of them, you see, then it's south; and when they're heading east and it's to the left, then it's north. Q -- When the thing disappeared, they were changing, they were changing to the southeast direction, it was right in front of them. That statement is right there (chuckle). WW -- Yeah, but they were going due east toward Canfield, and then due south out of Canfield; it was ahead of them both times. Q -- (pause, chuckle) WW -- Did they tell you that they passed Canfield -- Q -- I've got the statement right there. WW -- That they were going southeast at every moment? a -- No, of course not. Because the road doesn't follow southeast at every moment. You have bends in every road. WW -- Yeah, but see this had a right angle bend at Canfield, and they were going east; and the object was seen to the north -- following along side the road. And then when they headed south, the object was ahead of them, to the south. If you're aimed south, and something's in front, then it's to the south; and if you're aimed east, and something's to the left, then it's north. Q -- Of course. ww -- Well then how couldia satellite have been seen following them* along the north, and then when they turned around and went south -- (*the road) Q -- Look -- a satellite is not visual. You can't observe a satellite for more than ten minutes at the most. WW -- Right. And they had this thing in view for, almost -- Q -- For an hour and thirty five minutes. ww -- Well how could that have been a satellite then? a -- I didn't say that that was a satellite, did I? I said his first observation, that caused his attention; but I don't want to get into a squabble. WW -- Well -- look -- Q -- No-- good afternoon! WW -- You're not going to examine the data? Q -- I've examined the data. WW -- Did you examine the data that it moved relative to the -- 5/10/66 QSNWD,WW,DW partial transcript NOT FOR PUBLICATION page 17 Q -- Look, young fella, I'm finished with you. WW -- Does Venus move relative to the moon? Q -- No! ww -- Well this thing did. Q -- Of course. Because Venus is on the ecliptic just the same as the moon is and just the same as (indistinct; could be "Jupiter") ww -- Did they tell you that "Venus", that this object, uh, rose, at the left of the moon, that it was below it, it rose -- Q -- Yes, it rose up and down, and to the left and to the right. WW -- And that's Venus. Q -- Yes. WW -- When they're standing still?! Q -- Son, if you don't know anything about atmospheric convections, I'm sorry. ww -- Well, Major Quintanilla, if you don't know anything about language, I'm very sorry! --- This is most remarkable! (At that point, Major Quintanilla had left. David Webb questions Spaur:) DW -- Did you tell him you saw the moon, and what you thought was Venus, and also the object at the same time? What did he say to this? S -- He said I didn't see it. He said I had a misconception of a conventional aircraft, and hallucination of astronomical phenomena, or something, I don't know, it hurts a lot -- (Loud laughter) Deputies accounts consistent with their original ones ones. William B. Weitzal, NICAP kh Errors corrected with chall paper 5709 Woodmont St. NOT FOR Pittsburgh, Pa. 15217 QUOTATION Please return May 17, 1966 Major Hector Quintanilla, Jr. Wright-Patterson AFB Dayton, Ohio Dear Major Quintanilla, After our talk last week in Portage County, I was afraid you had gone away with some ill feeling, as you seemed to be angry that I was asking you questions following the meeting. Let me assure you that I was only concerned that you get the full picture of what happened on April 17, as I am still concerned. I am just as anxious as you are that an objective evaluation be made, and I do not see how it could be objective if insufficient data were collected. I am sure that you do not consider seriously reports of this sort: "I saw a light in the sky same time last year." But you seemed to be interpreting the report offered by the four police officers, particularly Dale Spaur, as this: "I saw a light in the sky the morning of April 17, and followed it southeast. Frankly, sir, I don't see that such a skimpy report would be worthy of your attention in the first place. If this is all you thought it was, it must have seemed a terrible waste of time to have to drive across Chio and back just to have it repeated to you. If that is the case, I have much admiration for the patience you showed at that meeting, despite a little heat between us at the end. I will, likewise, understand if you choose not to answer this letter. It is, I know, difficult to change your mind or admit an error; even if after reading my comments below, you still feel you are right, you will probably think it a waste of time to reply. However, I feel it is only fair to offer you the opportunity to change my mind. I am willing to have it changed; indeed, I would not have done a complete job of investigating this case unless I sought your informed opinion. I hope you will extend to me, then, the courtesy of proving me wrong, at least; or if on reconsideration you decide the opposite, of admitting it. I will not be happy to be proven wrong, of course. But that would be totally irrelevant to what should go into my record. I shall offer my comments in this manner, or from this point of view. Assuming that you were aware of certain features of the testimony offered to you orally on May 10, and that these features, if taken seriously, would of course rule out the explanation of the sighting you have decided upon, you must have had some criterion, or criteria, for rulling out the features to rule in the explanation. Let me be a little more clear. I don't mean that you took the explanation first, then the data, and eliminated the data to fit the explanation; that would be ridiculous. I mean instead, that you must have seen fit (for other reasons than that the explanation had to be preserved) before making your evaluation, to eliminate those features. On reading that over, I see a lack of objectivity. If it irritates you to see me assuming anything it all, from a scientific point of view, since it is unscientific to color a problem with assumptions, I will make this as well one of my questions, even though that is stretching objectivity a bit! (Some assumptions must be granted for a problem to even be seen:) But to be rigorous, I will begin there and not assume an answer from you one way or the other. 1. Did you choose to disregard those features of the testimony that did not fit your explanation? win Weitzel Majorrquintanilla 5/17/66 page 2 I must confess that if you answer "yes" there, I won't expect a reply from you, as the whole point of this letter is to have you fill in for the record your specific reasons for putting away certain parts of the testimony. Here are those parts; the points are meant as questions -- "Mhat reason is there for not taking into account in an evaluation?" For " the following: 2. The UFO's size: "From berm to berm on 224" Spaur said. Rte. 224 is a good sized, 2-lane road. Also, he added when filling out the questionairre, "As big as a three-bedroom ranch home." And, "Hell, it was big as a house!" 3. The UFO's brightness: "Like looking down the middle of hell, or something, for a minute. And it was very bright; it'd make your eyes water." 4. The UFO's change in brightness depending on its height: "It would get brighter when it would go up, and then it would seem like it would lose part of its intenseness, of the light, as it would came back down to us." 5. The UFO's sound: a humming noise that would change pitch. 6. The UFO's being seen to the north or south: from the enclosed map, and the statement that it was to their left when traveling toward Canfield, north; likewise, when they turned down 183 near Deerfield, it was behind them. At that time it then moved to their right, thus south. Also, after leaving Canfield, from Neff's testimony: "And we turned off to the right. And it was over to the right of us then, and that throwed it back over to the left hand side of the cruiser. And it seemed like it just went off the road and quit; when we was going a little bit south, it turned and come right back with us. South." 7. The lit-up ground under the UFO: "It was no more, after it gained altitude, no more than between three and five hundred feet, 'cause it was light on the ground underneath of it. It was, the illumination from it, when it crossed that big crane, where the strip field is and stuff, you could see it just as plain as you can see that telephone. And this was before daylight." 8. The UFO's metallic appearance: "But that's the metallic part that you could see. You could see it very plain, and it was like an aluminum top that's been used for a while; it was definitely a silver, or light color, but it wasn't like chrome; it was silver color but it wasn't polished silver. Smoky silver. Dull silver, or whatever you'd vali it; it was, I saw it very plainly." 9. The UFO's projection: "When it would do this, you could see this one projection on the back. Fifteen or eighteen feet long, it would appear to be. This is strictly an estimate." 10. The UFO's maneuvering: "This front part would change its angle of trim. .... there was this one projection on it that we could see at any time; there were a couple times it made the same maneuver we couldn't see it." At this time the object appeared to be about 100 feet away. 11. The UFO's being more visible when it (the sky) became lighter: "Very clear, there was no problem at all, as a matter of fact, the lighter it got, the better we could see it." An object that was totally illuminated would have gone down in (relative) brightmess. 12. The nature of the UFO's disappearance: "We watched it through an antenna. it went PSSSSHHEW, straight up; and I mean, when it went up, friend, it didn't play no games; it went straight up." Weitzel -- Major Quintanilla 5/17/66 page 3 There are two points about number 12, sir. First, the mobility of the UFO is indicated by its moving from between (in line of sight) TV antenna wires, to above them; then, in your OWn word, it "disappeared". (Spaur agreed to that word.) Second, would not radar from Oakdale or Greater Pittsburgh, which are hidden by tall hills to the south of the site of the sighting's terminal position, fail to pick up an object so low, which then rose rapidly without playing "no games"? The sweep might not have been covering that area when the UFO rose from its "hiding place" to out of sight. This latter part of the event raises another problem: a second UFO: "There was one bright spot right off the, about where the nose would have been on the (man in the) moon, but the bright spot had been there, I don't know how long the bright spot had been there, it was quite a while. But when we were watching, it would have been, at this time, -- of course, that spot was awful small, it wasn't as big as this, that we were watching." From a photograph made from where Spaur stood, the three objects were placed as follows: (including Spaur's testimony) 1) "Bright spot" 3 2) Crescent moon 3) UFO reported, seen here behind a TV antenna Actually, the moon was a little higher. There is one other thing I would like to ask, Major Quintanilla, following up a request I made after the May 10 meeting. The police officers in Ohio who observed three jets behind a large, bright ball going horizontally across the sky in Spaur's direction, for a minute or so, reported that the two jets in the rear were turning toward the first one (directly behind, about a mile, the object) from another direction. You said no jets were scrimbled or diverted by anyone on the ground. Could it be 6 that some pilot requested permission to chase an object, have permission granted, and then you would not get this information if you phrased your request something like, "were any jets scrambled?" This is why I thought a specific question from you would elicit a more direct reply, about a pilot radioing in some report not made under orders. Did you get an answer to your question? I'll make that number 13, just to be more formal: 13. Were any jets involved in any way with the UF0? If not under orders, as you indicated, did some pilot on his own initiative, or with permission, observe a UFO? OF course, it would probably be almost impossible for you to find out if a pilot went off course during a practice, or otherwise, flight, to "chase a flying saucer": You are probably well aware of how queasy pilots are about reporting such things. That is all the questions I have, sir. Except for a request on behalf of Dale Spaur: if you release any further findings to the news media about this, he would appreciate it, I am sure, if you mention not only him, but also Wilbur Neff, Frank Panzanella, and Wayne Huston as observers. Spaur looks rather foolish to the public, and his ability to perform police duties has been eroded by publicity that he chased a planet. He wishes that the press (UPI, radio, etc.) had been fairer in naming the other officers involved. I am sure you will do this if the opportunity arises. Weitzel Major Quintanilla 5/17/66 page 4 I'm afraid I forgot something, but this positively will be the last question. 14. What reason is there for not taking into account that Wayne Huston saw the object coming from the west (northwest) with Spaur and Neff directly behind it, then go overhead and down the road southeast as they followed it? "Anyway, this thing passes over another police car. He watches it go by, he's spotted it now." Huston was standing outside his car, expecting Spaur and Neff at any moment, having been listening to radio traffic. Perhaps this will be submitted by those checking in the Pittsburgh area for you, from either Oakdale or Creater Pittsburgh. It may be that nearly all the points I raised could be easily explained by an inclusive answer, such as "hallucination". That is a very uncomfortable word, of course: And I realize that, being in the high position you are, you would prefer a less loaded term. But as it stands, sir, the sighting reported by Spaur and discussed with him by you, has not been explained. Taking "sighting" as you did, when you told him to tell "what he saw". Now, you and I both know that what people see is not, sometimes, what is there. If there is any indication the four men were having an hallucination, or exaggeration of a stimulus, I think that should be said. Personally, I know of nothing indicating this. But if that is the situation, as seems to be implicit in your conclusion, I think it should be said in a forthright manner, and substantiated. I am sure you have data other than that which I have, about this event. It is only fair that you make known what it was that accounts for the points I raised above (except for number 13), whether one reason or many. From your point of view, I hope it is one simple reason; that will make it the more casier to reply to me. But whether one reason or many, I hope you will reply soon. Respectfully yours, William B.Weital William B. Weitzel Deliver to POSTAGE to Addressee Only INSTRUCTIONS TO DELIVERING EMPLOYEE Show to whom and Show to whom, when, and Deliver ONLY when delivered address where delivered to addressee (Additional charges required for these services) RECEIPT Received the numbered article described below. REGISTERED NO. SIGNATURE OR NAME OF ADDRESSEE (Must always be filled in) CERTIFIED 161983 NO. SIGNATURE OF ADDRESSEE'S AGENT, IF ANY INSURED NO. DATE DELIVERED SHOW WHERE DELIVERED (only if requested) MAY 20 1966 GPO NOTES ON CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENCE AND NEWS ARTICLES These sections are almost exclusively related to the investigation performed by Major Quintanilla of Project Blue Book. The point of the correspondence with Congressman William Stanton was to inform him of the adverse reflection on the officers in his district, resulting from the U.S.A.F. - sponsored conclusion that the deputies had become hysterical at the sight of Echo, then chased Venus out of the state, and the lack of basis for that conclusion. I informed other congressmen who have expressed an interest in the UFO topic, and the Air Force's role, of my communication with Congressman Stanton. The May 17 letter to Mendel Rivers was also sent, in substantially the same form, to Congressmen Ayers, Bates, Ford, Fulton, and McCormack. Speaker McCormack has, for many years, upheld the viewpoint that the Air Force's handling of UFO reports should be more open. Some of these reproductions are of carbon copies; they may be of poorer quality; corrections were made on originals with chalk-paper. The "enclosure" mentioned in the April 23 letter to Congressman Stanton, introducing me to him, referred to a newspaper clipping of an interview expressing my views on UFOs (conservative) and background. Regarding personal opinions: It should be clear that I have expressed strong views and dissatisfaction with the Blue Book program. This dissatisfaction is based on close observation of the Portage County investigation as well as other sources. I have no reason to believe the Portage County investigation is atypical of Blue Book procedure. The Portage County case (including all participants in and out of the state) is ample grounds for dissatisfaction, aside from other well documented cases (see NICAP's publication, THE UFO EVIDENCE.) My opinion of Major Quintanilla is that he has a deep-rooted belief that no UFO has ever indicated the existence of advanced technological techniques. His stated criterion for persuasion to the contrary is testimony of astronomers who would report the approach of spaceships. This is part of the unfortunate stereotype of "UFO" -- if a UFO is not a spaceship, just arrived from a distant world, it must be a conventional object or natural phenomenon. Between these two poles there is a wealth of possibilities. One is reminded of Dr. Allen Hynek's April 5 testimony before the House Armed Services Committee (#55) this year, regarding "poverty of hypotheses." Such a deep-rooted opinion is naturally going to stand in the way of an objective evaluation of data. As has so often happened, if a witness gives testimony that points to the existence of a device produced by an advanced technology, he must therefore be disbelieved; either his objective evidence is incomplete, or his subjective experience is out of whack with reality. Certainly, in this P-13 case, the "they're all conventional" opinion is out of whack with the observations. But why must the presumption be favored over the facts? This is not of simply academic importance. UFO witnesses are subjects of a strange experience, apparently beyond the realm of conventional explanation. To refuse to widen the boundaries of that realm to include a (by now) monumental accumulation of reports, ill befits our scientific ideals. On the level of the individual citizen, be he a UFO witness or not, anxiety is increasing lest he be one; if he is, his anxiety becomes conscious pain, from social disapproval. Fortunately for the witnesses, but unfortunately for the Air Force, the disapproval is shifting from the data-producers to the data-explainers. The problem remains, however; the data-producers are discouraged from performing their role. A rather obvious answer to the frequent question, "If these things are flying around, why don't more people report them?" W April 23, 1966 Hon. William Stanton House of Representatives Washington, D. C. Dear Mr. Stanton: Richard Hall, Assistant Director of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena, requested that I write you this letter. I am a Special Investigator for NICAP and Chairman of its Pittsburgh Subcommittee. The enclosed article, published today in the Record-Courier in Ravenna, Ohio, where I am currently working, should suffice for further introduction. I have been investigating the recent "chase" of an unidentified flying object on April 17, 1966 from about 5:00 AM to 6:30 AM, beginning here in Portage County and terminating in Conway, Pennsylvania. I have had intensive interviews with Gerald Buchert, Dale Spaur, Frank Panzanella, Wayne Huston, John Bieghey, and Gerald Yokum, law enforcement officers who were involved in the event. I expect to talk with William Neff this evening. Since there are some major discrepancies and omissions in the Air Force's explanation of this sighting, these should bé brought to your attention, particularly since they adversely reflect directly on Deputy Sheriffs Spaur and Neff, and indirectly on the Sheriff's office. The enclosed items partially document these discrepancies. For brevity, I am omitting sound copies of tape-recorded interviews. The following appeared on the UPI wire this afternoon, at the request of the Record-Courier: WASHINGTON UPI -- The Air Force thinks that a Ravenna deputy sheriff chased a satellite or the planet Venus when he pursued what he said was an unidentified flying object in his patrol car last Sunday. An Air Force report released Friday said another UFO photographed in the town of Mantua, eight miles north of Ravenna, was also Venus. It said a double image which appeared on the film was probably due to "processing defects." The lawman who pursued what he thought was a UFO was Deputy Sheriff Dale F. Spaur. He reported that he and his partner chased the object at high speeds for about 90 minutes into Pennsylvania. The Air Force thinks what Spaur saw was a satellite passing overhead. When it disappeared, they said, he focused his eyes on Venus. The report noted that, "Venus was rising in the southeast and was. brighter than any star in the sky. On the same day Spaur staged the chase Police Chief Gerald Buchert of Mantua, Chio spotted, and photographed, an object "which looked like two table saucers put together." I refer you also to the clipping from today's Record-Courier, quoting more from a similar report that reached them yesterday. These reports are inaccurate or misleading as follows: page 2 Item one: There is no mention of the fact that officers Wayne Huston, East Palestine Police, and Frank Panzanella, Conway Police, participated in the observation of the UFO, at times independently and at times together. This lack of mention puts the responsibility on the shoulders of Spaur, Neff and Buchert, and the wording of the report implies that Spaur alone was responsible for the mistaken observation which resulted in the chase. This is a significant lack, because of the strong corroboration offerd by Huston and Panzanella: Huston observed the object, in detail, flying overhead while he waited at an intersection through which, from hearing radio traffic, he expected Spaur to drive, and while he waited outside his cruiser, heard them coming on his radio. When the object went by, followed by Spaur and Neff, Huston went after them, comparing notes with the Portage County officers over their radio. Panzanella observed the object before all three officers pulled up to his parked cruiser in Conway, and all four watched it maneuver in relation to ground and astronomical reference points. Item two: Regarding the "satellite" explanation, this is impossible. When Spaur and Neff first observed the object, it was moving toward them over some trees, near the road where they had left their patrol car to investigate an abandoned automobile. It moved directly overhead and (1) hovered, (2) appeared 30-45 feet in diameter at an estimated distance of 150 feet, (3) emitted such a bright light that it hurt Spaur's eyes, and illuminated the ground in an isolated area around their car, (4) emitted a buzzing-humming noise, which (5) rose in pitch when it resumed its movement from hovering. (6) The brightness increased at this time, and as the object moved away (Spaur and Neff were in their cruiser by now), (7) illuminated the ground in the following determinate manner: when the object moved forward, it tilted and the spot of light on the ground moved behind a point which would be vertically below it. In other words, the UFO "nosed down" when it moved forward, and emitted the light parallel to its own normal axis, as would a (light from a) flashlight. AS the patrolmen sped after it, its ground spot illuminated various objects in fields over which it flew; and the road, as it passed in front of the officers' line of travel. (8) During the pursuit, the object had a definite shape, drawn by Spaur without prompting or presentation of any verbal or photographic suggestions, on the evening following his sighting, as appears in the enclosed spall composite photograph, upper laft right sector. This drawing is reproduced on page 5 of this letter. The original copy is still in my possession. Item three: Regarding the reference to Spaur's eyes focusing on Venus, an attempt to explain the latter part of the sighting, the following points, referring to numbers on the photograph (and tracing of the original), were largely corroborated by Huston and Panzanella. Venus would certainly not present the following characteristics: (1) A projection from the trailing edge of the object. (2) A "dome-shaped" top. (3) An intensely bright forward portion. (4) An intensely bright "cone-shaped" bottom portion, either vaporous or solid, but too bright to look at comfortably. (5) A bright trailing edge. (6) A depressed portion of satiny (not shiny) metallic appearance on the rear third of the object -- the rest of it brilliantly self-illuminated, this portion reflecting available light from a dawn sky. (7) A sharp "drop-off" at the rear of the "dome", at the slanted portion of which the projection began. (8) A brilliant rounded "undercarriage", at times invisible because of the brightness of the bottom cone of light. (9) A boundary between self- and externally- illuminated portions of the object. page 3 Item five: The break in the sighting implied in the Air Force's analysis has what I am sure is an unintended (see Item six) correspondence to a fact in the sighting, but an unfortunately conflicting correspondence: at one point in the pursuit of the object, Spaur, Neff and Huston lost sight of it as they concentrated on negotiating a complex of bridges near Rochester, Pa. When they emerged, the object had dropped considerably lower (from about 1000 to 100 feet of altitude) and appeared to have been waiting for them. As they came into view (admittedly an ambiguous way of putting it) it sped up and regained its altitude. These altitude changes, wherever they occurred, were always rapid and not attri- butable at any time to dips in the road, or the like. Item six: So far as I am aware, the extent of interviewing of the participants in this sighting, done by the Air Force, is as follows: Neigher Neff, Huston, not Panzanella have been interviewed. Spaur was interviewed by phone on Monday and Thursday, for a total time (his estimate) of not more than four or five minutes. Furthermore, Spaur had the distinct impression that when he began relating interesting details of the sighting, the investigator backed off. The investigator, Spaur says, brought up the possibility that he had observed the object for only a few moments, and did not pursue the fact that Spaur pursued the object for 86 miles. This is why I mentioned in Item five that I believe the Air Force to be unaware that Spaur actually did have a break in his sighting, and of the detail and significance of this break. Item seven: Regarding the "double image" on Chief Gerald Buchert's film (please refer to the sketch of the composite photograph, locating these images, and the reproduction of an 8x10 print showing them); since the available light was low, no frame boundaries, as would be formed by contrast of available light exposure with light occlusion within the camera, separate the two images. Thus it is indeterminate whether each image might be due to separate exposures of one object in different frames, or two different bjects in a single frame. I am making no judgment on the images, but whether they are due to an anomaly in the history of the film, or to objects photographed in the field of view, the wording of the report seems to imply that these distinctions were ignored. Item eight: That the images) were "probably due to 'processing defects due to poor handling": this implies that something went wrong during development of the film The carbon copy of the signed statement by Deputy Sheriff Gerald Yolcum certifies that no irregularities were present during processing: fresh developer was used and the operation was carried out to the letter, in the photolab of the Sheriff's Office in Revenna. The wording also indicates that no effort was made by Project Blue Book to ascertain this. To my knowledge, none was. Deputy Yokum's statement also indicates the exchanges between Wright-Patterson AFB, where Blue Book is located, and the Sheriff's office. Deputy Yokum is held in high esteem for his photographic ability. His verbal response to the Air Force's opinion of his work in this operation was worded rather harshly. Item nine: That the film was old and foggy: the implication is that the film was too poor to make a good reproduction. The small photograph of the contact copies of the entire strip of film up to the last picture taken shows that five copies of good contrast and detail were recorded on a portion of the film immediately adjacent to the area exposed by Chief Buchert in an attempt to page four photograph the UFO he observed. These five pictures were made less than three hours later in the morning, outside his home from almost the same spot as the first three attempts. This shows that, while the film was indeed slightly fogged, it was not in the rough shape implied by the news release. Again, let me emphasize that I hold no brief either for or against the quality or signifigance of of the "UFO image(s)." I am only pointing out that they cannot be dismissed in an offhand manner. The two contact prints seen in the composite photograph, by the way, were made at different exposures to bring out separately the good contrast in the later pictures, on which contact copy the "UFO image(s)" area is much darker. On the other print, this area is more compatible to inspection. On the original film, of course, both areas are simultaneously visible, with good detail. Item ten: I have examined this film in much detail, such that I could observe even grain variations, and could find nothing on it corresponding to an image of Venus, as the press reports state it bears. Venus would have shown in a print as a bright point. If the Air Force means the arc-shaped dark streaks with their associated lighter and medium-dark patterns are some "double image" of Venus, this interpretation of the report does not stand up, for obvious reasons. If the interpretation is of the bright spot appearing on the print (see copy) of the "UFO image(s) area, I can certify that this spot is not an exposed, dark, area on the film, but an area where the tank fluid failed to clear - the emulsion at all. If by "Venus" is meant the dark spot, I would subjest, aside from the point that Venus would have appeared bright, that this dark spot, on close examination is (seemed to me to be) due to a bubble on the film which prevented development. Its outline is sharp and runs to the edge of the film, which was held, in the tank, by a device which gripped its rims. The film, incidentally, was agitated continu- ously; notwithstanding this, small anomalies could have occurred adjacens to the rim. The "UFO image(s)" are, however, located a good third of the way in. Item eleven: The press report makes no mention of the fact that Chief Buchert observed the object maneuvering, in his field of vision both above and below some nearby horizontal telephone wires. Whether "his" UFO was the same one observed by Spaur, Neff, Huston and Panzanella, or not, and whether the film's image(s) bear any resemblance to the object Chief Buchert observed, his sighting cannot be discounted by a brief reference, pejorative when not in context, to "table saucers". Whatever it was, it definitely was not Venus. And just as definitely, neither was the sighting by Spaur, Neff. Huston and Panzanella. The Record-Courier article on my activity concerning UFO phenomena headlines this as a "hobby". For many years the Air Force has referred to civilian UFO investigative organizations as "hobby clubs". While some indeed may be conducted on that level, I know of no one doing volunteer investigative or research work for NICAP who considers such work as anything less than a serious avocation. I share NICAP's patriotic aim of making information on at least an interesting and at most a vitally important topic available to the public. It is for that reason that I and Mr. Hall believe the information enclosed should be brought to your attention. Sincerely yours, William B. Weitzel Watzel 5709 Woodmont St. Pittsburgh, Pa. 15217 May 6, 1966 Honorable William Stanton House of Representatives Washington, D. C. Dear Mr. Stanton: The Washington office of NICAP has informed me of your reply to my letter to you of April 23, discussing the Air Force's conclusions regarding the Chio-Pennsylvania UFO sighting of April 17. I am pleased that you found the letter informative, and that you have gone on record as being critical of the Air Force's handling of this case. I agree wholeheartedly with your statement, printed yesterday in the Ravenna Record-Courier, that such procedures and unfounded conclusions are detrimental to both the Air Force and the public interest. NICAP has documented the fact that this activity is common in the history of the Air Force's involvement with UFO phenomena, in THE UFO EVIDENCE, published by NICAP in 1964. Such unfortunate handling of UFO reports has probably been the greatest single factor in preventing an adequate accumulation of UFO information, since the public's expectation of ridicule is reinforced every time a witness is treated in such an offhand and derogatory manner by Blue Book representatives or their published statements. Blue Book has never approached this problem, of UFO phenomena, with an open mind, and military secrecy orders (for example, AFR200-2, JANAP 146, FM 190) are a further stumbling block to scientific analysis. It embarassed me to discover that I had left out of my previous letter, a copy of a statement refered to therin, by Gerald Yokum, Deputy Sheriff who handled the development of Mantua Village Police Chief Buchert's film. Although NICAP still has no professional opinion concerning the value of this film, Deputy Yokum's statement refutes the Air Force's claim that the processing was poorly done, and adds information which might be helpful in its analysis. Enclosed is a copy of that statement; also some news clippings and issues of NICAP's bi-monthly publication, THE UFO INVESTIGATOR. If you wish further information about NICAP's work, I am sure Richard Hall will be glad to send you some, including a copy of THE UFO EVIDENCE, which we have tried to make available to every member of Congress. I will be at the above address for several more weeks, and would be glad to hear from you if you have any questions. Sincerely yours, William B. Weitzel William B. Weitzel, Chairman NICAP Pittsburgh Subcommittee NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR May 11, 1966 Honorable William Stanton House of Representatives Washington, D. C. Dear Mr. Stanton: Major Hector Quintanilla visited the Portage County Sheriff's Office yesterday afternoon, and after watching and hearing his incredible performance, I felt it best to write you. I and all the others present with him are grateful for your efforts in bringing this event about, and I wish I could return a report that what transpired was in line with the intended aim of the visit: that a thorough and fairly conducted investigation of the April 17 UFO sighting would be made, to collect enough facts for an adequate basis of analysis. The following persons were present during the entire interview: Major Quintanilla, Sheriff Ross Dustman, Deputy Dale Spaur, and Mounted Deputy Wilbur Neff. After it started, another Deputy, the Radio Operator who talked with Spaur that morning, Robert Wilson, came in. I, David Webb (a NICAP Investigator from Alliance, Ohio), Carol Clapp of the Record-Courier, and Tom Schley of the Beaver County (Pa.) Times were there at the start, but Mrs. Clapp and Mr. Schley left after a while. When the oral part of the testimony began, Major Quintanilla requested that I and Mr. Webb leave the room, and we complied. I observed the interview in person for about one half of its two-hour length, talked with Major Quintanilla and the Deputies afterwards, and have heard a tape recording made in the presence of everyone there and with their knowledge; this tape lasts the entire session. The interview was held in a third floor room of the County Court House. It should be emphasized that Major Quintanilla was most polite and patient, only occassionally interrupting testimony, and that he seemed to have good reasons for requesting NICAP representatives to leave the room. At no time did he object to anyone else's requests, and the general atmosphere, while tense, was almost congenial. Although some loud words were spoken, none were harsh. My characterization of Major Quintanilla's performance as "incredible" is based on the following. Not only did he reiterate his original satellite-Venus explanation of the UFO sighting, but he tried to talk us into it. He also seemed unconcerned regarding certain anomalies in his interpretation which were pointed out to him directly. He left the impression that he had come only to A privately phorled fact finding body serving the national public interest NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON. D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT Weitzel -- Stanton page 2 5/11/66 MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR satisfy certain demands for his physical presence in the area, and that he had brought his conclusion with him. It appeared to be a complete waste of time, on his part and on ours. The Major's line of argument was, briefly, that he had (1) taken testimony on the phone from Dale Spaur that was identical with that gathered at the interview yesterday, (2) checked all the conventional aerial activity in the vicinity of the sighting, (3) analyzed the testimony and compared it with his activity-check, and found no indication of radar reception of the UFO near Greater Pittsburgh Airport, (4) concluded that there was no UFO at the time. He clouded the issue of the thoroughness of his investigation, pointing out that he conferred for thirty five minutes with computer experts setting up a program for analysis of satellite activity in the area at that time, thus obscuring the fact that his own con- frontation with, or confrontation by Blue Book representatives with, the participants in the event lasted less than five minutes. How the information gained in the conference over a two hour period could be identical with that from a couple of perfunctory phone calls is beyond me. That there was indeed a non-astronomical body at all times is clear to all familiar with the Deputies' testimony save the Major. I will not burden you with a prolonged repetition of my former letter detailing a rebuttal to the astronomical explanation. But I will point out a significant difference in the status of that rebuttal now and before this interview. Before, it was possible that the astronomical conclusion was based on a paucity of first- hand information gathered by Blue Book, indicated by their brief interviews (total less than five minutes) with one observer only (Spaur), and, according to Spaur's statement, a strong lack of interest in following up the fact of its (the sighting's) great length in time and across several counties. During the interview the Major was confronted with all these details; yet his conclusion remained unaltered. Either he was somehow unaware of the testimony, or there is no contradiction between testimony and explanation. I will make no further speculations. It did seem, though, that the Major's general approach, which is odd from an evaluative and investigative standpoint, was to discount those portions of testimony which conflicted with his prior explanation. Using this approach, one could, for example, A privalely-supported fact-finding body serving the national public interest NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON, D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT Weitzel -- Stanton page 3 5/11/66 MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR easily identify a dightning bug with the sun. Both move through the sky, either overhead or near the horizon; both emit light; both can be observed by many people at one time. Aside from these general features, however, there are particular ones which make quite a difference. And there is also a matter of degree in the supposed similarities. Particular differences between satellite-Venus and this UFO were the antenna at its rear, its metallic sheen, its differentiated shape, its brilliant cone-shaped light, its being viewed to the south, north, east, north, south, north, south and southeast, in that sequence, its humming noise, and variations in velocity and altitude, alternating, not changing continuously, from great to small. Major Quintanilla showed that a satellite's, or Venus', regular motion can appear, from eye movements or atmospheric disturbances, to be irregular. This does not account for the gross changes in direction, altitude, or speed of the UFO, which changes were quick and precise. Neither a satellite nor Venus would be so bright as to cast a spot of light on the ground beneath them, to the rear when they moved forward, or directly underneath when they were stationary. Neither, of course, would be stationary in the first place. Neither one would fill one sixth of the viewing area of a car's windshield. Neither would cause Spaur and Neff to be petrified with astonishment and fear, or cause a temporary loss of feeling of reality, when hovering overhead, as did the UFO. Now, in response to these anomalies, Major Quintanilla completely disregarded those which were utterly incompatible with a Venus- satellite explanation, and deprecated the degree of those which, in their extent, likewise contradicted such an explanation. He stoutly maintained, without citing an examination of a map, that the observed object was always to the southeast, despite the fact that Spaur and Neff were initially traveling due east, then due south, and observed the object as described earlier, in diverse directions. To reconcile these discrepancies he stated, in his "incredible" way, that roads wind. The Deputies' route, of course, was as much a part of the observation as was the UFO, and likewise has verification from independent sources. Speaking of independent sources, I wonder if Major Quintanilla plans to interview any of them? Or will Dale Spaur continue to be A privalelysupported fact-finding body serving the national public interest seen by the press as the personal focal point of this alarmingly deteriorated situation? NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON. D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES CABLE ADDRESS: 1836 CONNECTICUT AVE. N. W. SKYLIGHT Weitzel -- Stanton 5/11/66 page 4 MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR Major Quintanilla was quoted three weeks ago in the Ravenna Record-Courier as deciding not to send an investigator here because of the difficulty of recreating the scene. At this confer- ence he stated he preferred sitting in his office pushing buttons, using commmunications channels, to interviewing witnesses in person. Surely this represents administrative efficiency; but must part of the available testimony of witnesses be selectively ignored to allow categorizing the rest? Must witnesses be ignored altogether? I have interviewed eleven who offered significant or interesting information in this case. It seems that testimonies as well as buttons have been pushed. The sole extent of testimony collected by representatives of the Air Force, among all these candidates, was less than five minutes, from Deputy Spaur, as far as I was aware. I am definitely not saying that, absolutely, Blue Book analyzed only this much testimony. But there are glaring gaps. I say "selectively" ignored for this reason: Major Quintenilla's reasoning clearly exhibits an a priori assumption that UFOs are not unconventional objects. Thus when testimony indicates the contrary, it is ignored or deprecated. (I am still limiting my statements to the April 17 sighting, but NICAP has a bulk of evidence that other Blue Book investigations have been similarly conducted.) One of Blue Book's stated aims, to which I presume Major Quintanilla subscribes, is a scientific investigation of UFO phenomena. It is not scientific to ignore facts in favor of presumptions. This is my criticism of Major Quintânilla's conduct in this session, Mr. Stanton. He did not appear to be here to investigate, analyze, or evaluate. He appeared to come prepared chiefly to select, reject, and persuade. It is, I believe you will agree, incredible that an officer representing so vital a project as Blue Book would be so inclined. I have made some strong statements in this letter. I will be glad to submit tape recordings and signed statements to back them up. Finally, please be advised that my sole reason for writing is to report on this situation; whether it can be rectified or not, I do not know. But I felt it necessary to inform you that the circum- stances which prompted my first letter, in part a routine NICAP action, have not altered and show no signes of improving. Sincerely yours, A factfinding body serving the national public inlevest William waitel William B, Weitzel 5709 Woodmont St. Pittoburgh, Pa. 15217 May 17, 1966 Honorable william Stanton House of Representatives Washington, D. C. near Mr. Stanton: I refrained from sending the enclosed letter, dated May 11, until being able to back up my charges concerning Major Quintanilla with something more concrete than a reference to a tape recording which I decided you would not have time to listen to in detail (it lasts two hours). To save you this time and to include with that letter some material to reinforce my claims, I have typed up a partial transcript of the recording. A photocopy is enclosed. Although some verbatin passages are mitted, it is continuous from the beginning of Spaur's oral testimony. I an making a tape copy of the original at this moment, and will forward that when it is completed. This copy will be unedited. Recause of their interest in the UPO subject and the Air Force's activity in the area, I an sending the following Congressmen photocopies of your (my) letter of May 11; John W. MeCormack, Gerald Ford, L. Mendel Rivers, William Bates and James Fulton. I will advêse then of your possession of the transcript and tape copy of the proceedings; unfortunately, 7 as not able to maleo enough copies of these myself. on Thursday of last week, two days after the May 16 meating. I talked in person with Chief Cerald Buchert of Mantus. After the meeting, later that day, Major Quintanilla visited him for two hours. Chief Buchert informed no that Major Quintanilla examined his yard with a magnetic compass, then spent the rest of the time trying to convince the Chief and his wife that they had observed Venus. Although Chief Buchert told Major quintanilla his wife had observed the UFO with him, the Major did not ask her a single question. Major Quintanilla seems to feel that, because Chief Buchert's film does not show a UFO, Chief Buchert did not SGG one, although the wight-Patterson analysis of that film discredits its quality and sunsitivity. saying it was old and badly Eogged. Many people in the Portage County Sheriff's office who were aware of the proceedings of May 10 expressed the opinion that Major Quintenille was under orders to conduct this matter the way he has. TO quote the Major himself (at a February 21, 1965 press conference), "I on a facts man." I do not believe his May 10 appearance is a good foundation for this opinion. I would not, on the other hand, be at all surprised to discover that It is a true opinion. But opinions aside. I think that appearance and its attendant circumstmess are worthy of your critical attontion. Sincerely yours, William B.Weitel William B. Weitsel, Chairman NICAP Pittsburgh Subcommittee ww 5709 Woodmont St. Pittsburgh, Pa. 15217 May 17. 1966 Honorable L. Mendel Rivers, Chairman Armed Services Committee House of Representatives Washington, D. C. Dear Mr. Rivers: Richard Hall, Assistant Director of NICAP, suggested I send you the enclosed information. I have been conducting an investigation of the April 17, 1966 sighting of an unidentified flying object which was "chased" from Portage County, Ohio, into Conway, Pennsylvania, by two Deputy Sheriffs. This event caused a great deal of excitement and the press gave much publicity to the Air Force's evaluation that the witnesses had observed an artificial satellite and the planet Venus. Because the facts of the case indicated otherwise, I informed Congressman William Stanton of this. Judge Cook, of the Portage County Common Pleas Court, also expressed to Mr. Stanton his dissatisfaction with the Air Force's conclusion, and Mr. Stanton visited Lt. Col. John Spaulding in the Pentagon to request a more thorough investigation. (This had apparently consisted of two 2-3 minute telephone interviews with one of the four observers.) On May 10, Major Hector Quintanilla conducted m interview in the Portage County Court House, after which he reiterated his original conclusion, claiming he saw nothing to dispute this. Despite his repeated assurances to those present that he was gathering information objectively, he rejected substantial and vital portions of testimony and indicated other serious gaps in his inves- tigation. Since I was sure Mr. Stanton had wished the Air Force to make more than a token concession to his request, I again wrote to him, on May 11. A copy of that letter is enclosed. In order to back up my claims, I delayed sending the letter until now, having typed a transcript from a tape recording made at the May 10 interview. I am not able to send you a copy of this, but Mr. Stanton has one and will shortly have a complete tape copy. I urge you to examine at least the transcript, as it says much more than I am able to in a brief letter. I hope you find this information enlightening. Sincerely yours. William Whizel William B. Weitzel, Chairman NICAP Pittsburgh Subcommittee GERALD R. FORD MICHIGAN OFFICE: FIFTH DISTRICT, MICHIGAN 425 CHERRY STREET SE. GRAND RAPIDS Congress of the United States Office of the Minority Leader house of Representatives Washington, D.C. May 23, 1966 Mr. William B. Weitzel, Chairman NICAP Pittsburgh Subcommittee 5709 Woodmont Street Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15217 Dear Mr. Weitzel: I wish to acknowledge and thank you for your letter of May 17th enclosing a copy of your letter to Congressman Stanton regarding the April 17th sighting. While I appreciate having the information on this sighting, my main con- cern has been that a Congressional investigation be held, all the facts examined on the unexplained sightings, and that the report be made fully available to the public. Because of my request, certain progress has been made. I am enclosing a release on that I thought you would like to see. Kindest personal regards. Sincerely, Jany Ford Gerald R. Ford, M.C. GRF:jb enc. CONGRESSMAN NEWS GERALD R. FORD HOUSE REPUBLICAN LEADER RELEASE FOR RELEASE ON THURSDAY, P.M., APRIL 21, 1966 STATEMENT BY HOUSE MINORITY LEADER GERALD R. FORD, R-MICHIGAN. The Air Force has informed me it is arranging for a study by high-caliber scientists of some of the UFO sightings which have never been explained. This study will be placed under contract soon after July 1, start of the new fiscal year. It will be carried out by a university which has no close ties with the Air Force so that the findings will be completely objective, Air Force officials tell me. Those people engaged in the study will be high-caliber scientists who have never taken a position on UFO's, the Air Force said. It will be made clear to them that they are not being hired to come up with findings in support of previous Air Force statements regarding UFO's, I am informed. The Air Force said there is too much effort involved to ask these scientists to make this study without pay. The report will definitely be made public, the Air Force assured me. The whole purpose of the study is to clear the air as far as the public is concerned. This, of course, was my purpose in recently requesting that public hearings on the subject of UFO's be conducted by either the House Armed Services Committee or the House Science and Astronautics Committee. It was as a result of my call for a congressional investigation that the Air Force now is arranging for a study of UFO's by topflight scientists not connected in any way with the Air Force. I would have preferred a congressional investigation with witnesses to include reliable persons from among those who say they have seen UFO's. I still think this would be beneficial. But the UFO study by a panel of scientists, with the report to be made public, is a step in the right direction. ### J. WILLIAM STANTON COMMITTEE ON 11TH DISTRICT, OHIO BANKING AND CURRENCY 1626 LONGWORTH BUILDING DISTRICT OFFICE: WASHINGTON, D.C. 20515 Congress of the United States 170 NORTH ST. CLAIR STREET PHONE: 225-5306 PAINESVILLE, OHIO PHONE: 352-6167 house of Representatives Washington, D.C. 20515 June 8, 1966 Mr. William Weitzel 5709 Woodmont Street Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15217 Dear Mr. Weitzel: Thank you very much for forwarding to me the tape recording of the interviews relating to the recent sighting in Portage County. I am delivering this to the Air Force to be made a part of their permanent file. You may be aware that I personally contacted Secretary of Defense McNamara urging his favorable consideration of the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board's recommendations that their present program be expanded to include investigation of selected sightings by independent scientists. The Secretary of the Air Force has now approved the recommendations made by the Advisory Board and steps are being taken to implement these recommendations and the new program should be operational by September 1966. I am sure you will agree that this, at least, is a good beginning. Thanking you again for forwarding the taped interviews to me, I am Sincerely yours, William Stanton WS:sm J. WILLIAM STANTON COMMITTEE ON 11TH DISTRICT. OHIO BANKING AND CURRENCY 1626 LONGWORTH BUILDING DISTRICT OFFICE: WASHINGTON, D.C. 20515 Congress of the United States 170 NORTH ST. CLAIR STREET PHONE 225-5306 PAINESVILLE, OHIO PHONE: 352-6167 House of Representatives Washington, D.C. 20515 June 8, 1966 Mrs. Carol Clapp RECORD-COURIER 124 North Chestnut Street Ravenna, Ohio Dear Carol: I think you will be interested to know that today I received an answer from the Secretary of Defense in regard to unidenti- fied flying objects. The letter stated that the Secretary of Defense has authorized the Air Force to take steps to strengthen scientific investi- gation of reports it receives on unidentified flying objects. He further states that help within the scientific communi- ties will be sought through contracts calling for prompt, in depth investi- gation of selected UFO reports. Air Force officials are now discussing the project informally with university and other scientific leaders to de- termine their interest. The Air Force is preparing work statements for these new contracts at the present time. Funds for them will be requested from FY '67 and FY '68 budgets. I was delighted to see the increased interest that the Federal Government is taking in the general subject of unidentified flying objects. I feel that the efforts of the local citizens in Ravenna in ex- pressing their dissatisfaction with their recent experience with this sub- ject has played a part in the expansion of this program. I appreciated very much the support of Judge Robert Cook, your newspaper, and the local citizens in letting the Air Force know that their inadequate investigation was not being accepted without protest. Sincerely yours, Bill- William Stanton WS:ag JAMES G. FULTON WASHINGTON OFFICE: U.S. REPRESENTATIVE HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON, D.C. COMMITTEES: SCIENCE, ETC. Congress of the United States PITTSBURGH OFFICE: FOREIGN AFFAIRS NEW FEDERAL BUILDING PITTSBURGH 22, PA. House of Representatives PHONE: 644-2876 Washington, D.C. 9 June 1966 William B. Weitzel 5709 Woodmont Street Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15217 Dear Mr. Weitzel: Your recent letter regarding unidentified flying objects has been called to my personal attention, and I have read it with care. Thank you for sending me this new information on the Pennsylvania "UFO" of April 17, 1966. Because I feel this information deserves further review, I am calling it to the attention of my colleagues on the Pennsylvania Delegation to the House of Representatives for their reference and study. Thank you for your civic and patriotic interest in writing to me, which I appreciate. Sincerely, Jun fulton JGF:ds ww, FILE NATIONAL INVESTIGATIONS COMMITTEE ON AERIAL PHENOMENA TELEPHONE: NORTH 7-9434 WASHINGTON. D. C. 20036 ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICES: CABLE ADDRESS: 1536 CONNECTICUT AVE.. N. W. SKYLIGHT PITTSBURGH SUBCOMMITEE 5709 Woodmont St. MAJOR DONALD E. KEYHOE Pittsburgh, Pa. 15217 June 12, 1966 USMC (RET.) DIRECTOR Honorable William Stanton 1626 Longworth Building Washington, D. C. 20515 Dear Mr. Stanton: Thank you for your letter acknowledging receipt of the tape recording made at Major Quintanilla's Portage County interview on May 10, and my subsequent interview with the witnesses and comments to the broadcast media. I have been following the Portage County situation through articles in the Ravenna Record-Courier, and am aware of your considerable efforts to improve the situation there, as well as the Air Force's UFO investigative procedures. I am pleased to see that the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board's recommendations are now being seriously considered. The following remarks are offered with some reluctance at the demand on your time for their consideration. But lest you have the impression I am beating an old bag of bones, please be assured that the only skeleton is in Project Blue Book's closet. Its entire crowded company deserves exposure to the clean air of enlight- enment, but I an particularly determined that the Portage County case be somehow corrected, and that Dale Spaur, Wilbur Neff, and the other participants in the events of April 17 be declassified in the public mind as incompetent officers and hysterical stargazers. Your quick replies to my other correspondence makes me wonder whether my letter and enclosures of May 17 have come to your attention. Enclosed with that letter was another one dated May 11, which I delayed sending until I was able to type a substantial portion of the taped interview by Major Quíntanilla. Also enclosed, then, was a 17-page transcript from this interview. The transcript supports my claims, detailed in the letters, that Major Quintanilla's interview was a travesty of investigative procedure. If you have seen this material, I would appreciate your forwarding the transcript to the Air Force, to be included with the tape recording, as the point of the recording was to substantiate the transcript, which can be perused in far less time than it takes to listen to the tape. I cannot emphasize enough, sir, that Major Quintanilla's trip to Ravenna did nothing whatever to correct the consequences of his original hasty investigation. Instead, these consequences were amplified. The public gained the impression, and this impression was communicated to you directly by the Air Force, that a closer look at this situation, the April 17 sighting, reinforced and confirmed Blue Book's original conclusion. This is a false impression. A privately-supported fact-finding body serving the national public interest Weitzel -- Stanton 6/12/66 page two It is a false impression for two reasons. One, the closer look was closer only in form, not in actuality. The transcript from Major Quintanilla's interview makes this clear. Two, the "confirmed" conclusion is nullified by at least ten specific points which appeared in the testimony. Some of these were emphasized to him. This is all on the tape. There are other features of the sighting which utterly discredit the "satellite-Venus" explanation. I have pointed these out to you in previous correspondence. Blue Book has smothered the Truth, Mr. Stanton. While this case is not the only one in which the truth has been smothered - there are many others, well documented -- this particular instance, in your district, is worth concentrating on; that is, I feel justified in discussing it with you. Probably nothing short of an investigation of Blue Book, at this point, could effect a reversal of this false impression. But I cannot accept the situation, as it stands, and remain silent. I wish to make clear that I am not challenging the honesty of Major Quintanilla, nor of Blue Book or the Air Force. False impressions do not always stem from sinister motives. I think Major Quintanilla believes he is doing a competent job. I believe the Air Force's published inaccuracies are largely due to false impressions stemming from Blue Book's reports. I have no evidence that there is a concerted federal or military effort to conceal known facts. But there is strong evidence that the size, structure, administrative orders, and practices of Project Blue Book have only exacerbated the problems of reporting and analyzing UFO phenomena. Furthermore, I am skeptical of any program of expansion or case review, as long as the structure, administrative orders, and practices continue. I believe that only a thorough overhaul of this project, and its demilitarization, will prevent further incidents such as that in Portage County. Reviews of the situation are not new to the Air Force. In 1948, ATIC sent the Air Force Chief of Staff a "Top Secret Estimate of the Situation" giving an inter- planetary interprétation to UFOs. (Although the Air Force has often denied the reality of this document, Major Quintanilla himself not only did not deny it, but searched for it, during a recent interview in his office. This interview has been published in five parts, in last week's Record-Courier.) In 1955, Blue Book published "Special Report #14," the result of an analysis of their data on UFOs through 1952. The Air Force has playëd down such reviews, because they tend to erode Blue Book's image as an adequate project. Special Report #14, for example, discredits the (altogether unscientific) presumption stated in AFR 200-2 that even UFOs classified as UNKNOWN after sufficient data has been collected, are probably ordinary objects or phenomena. If this were the case, one would expect a smaller percentage of UNKNOWN conclusions among well- qualified observers. On the contrary, according to Special Report #14, among "Excellent" observers, the UNKNOWN conclusion is prevalent: 33.3% compared with 16.6% for "Poor" observers. The other categories of conclusions remain about the same, by percentages, except for INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION (currently called "insuf- ficient data") which increases with observer unrelfability. One would expect, in other words, that better observers could supply data to determine a conventional object, if Blue Book's presumption were correct; instead, the better the observer, the more difficulty in explaining the observation. Weitzel -- Stanton 6/12/66 page three Surely a large proportion of the reports are due to conventional objects or phenomena. Currently, the Air Force claims UNINOWNS are about 7% of all conclusions. This figure, of course, is based on reports from a spectrum of reliability categories, and one is not reminded that "Excellent" observers are a small proportion of this. So throwing out the UNKNOWNS with the others is tempting. As the summary to Special Report #14 indicates, "As more and more reports are read, the feeling that "saucers" are real fades, and is replaced by a feeling of skepticism regarding their existence." But aside from the Report's dubious and confusing identification of UNKNOWN with "interplanetary space vehicle" (the meaning of "saucer" in the passage quoted), such a "feeling of skepticism" should not blind one to "finding diamonds in a search for coal," as Dr. J. Allen Hynek put it in his April 5, 1966 testimony before the House Armed Services Committee. It should certainly not blind one from finding diamonds in a search for diamonds. But Blue Book is not looking for diamonds, it is looking for coal. This is what blinded Major Quintanilla from seeing UNKNOWN when the observers' testimony stared him right in the face. He offered an explanation of a light in the sky. It is now carried as an explanation of the April 17 sighting. The April 17 sighting was not just a light in the sky, any more than a mushroom cloud is just a cloud. But since Blue Book prefers their choice of interpretation of "sighting", I prefer not to refer to the April 17 event as (just) a "sighting." It was, concretely, and spelled out in such detail as to preclude a gratuitous interpretation, explicitly an observation by at least four competent individuals of a highly detailed and unconventional event. Four weeks ago, I sent Major Quintanilla a letter pointing out that, while he had explained a "light in the sky," he had not explained the details of the event. I listed twelve points which still needed explanation. I also (as tact- fully as I could) asked him whether he had disregarded features of testimony that conflicted with his explanation. The points I listed, with the exception of corroboration from witnesses not present (but whom he later had interviewed), were taken directly, and quoted, from testimony taped in Major Quintanilla's presence. That testimony was the same as originally given me the same day as the sighting. I have received from Major Quintanilla only a signed receipt for the Certified letter. Is Major Quintanilla ignoring it because it (the testimony) was given him three weeks after the event? He did state he prefers to get initial impressions. Why did he not do this? Because he could not "recreate the scene"? No. Because he presumes, as outlined in AFR 200-2, that all UFOs are ordinary things seen under extraordinary physical -- or psychological -- circumstances. How can this attitude, printed, promoted and practiced by the Air Force, do anything but cancel efforts to augment Blue Book? I have great respect for the Air Force, Mr. Stanton, and none of my remarks are based on, or designed to foster, any erosion of that respect, in myself or in the public eye. But let me point out that the public's respect is being eroded by the stream of hasty and often absurd statements on UFOs offered by Blue Book, as official Air Force opinions. This is borne out by the fact that reluctance to admit the existence of unusual aerial objects is no longer frequently accompanied by ridicule of other witnesses, but by fear of ridicule of one's self should such an object be seen. Weitzel -- Stanton 6/12/66 page four I have tried so far to limit my correspondence to offers of information, Mr. Stanton. I know your busy schedule is full of competing problems. But now I feel I must ask a small favor of you. So long as Blue Book interprets the April 17 event to be just a light in the sky, no accurate conclusion will be forthcoming. I have enclosed a list of the specific items, copied from my unanswered letter to Major Quintanilla, with quotations from the transcript. Would you be so kind as to forward this list to the Air Force and ask how Major Quintanilla explains these specific points, and inform me of their answer? The question, how these points are explained, is legitimate. It demands a legitimate answer. It is a different question than has been asked so far, in precluding a gratuitous interpretation of "sighting". And I am not requesting your intervention in my own behalf alone, but chiefly on behalf of Deputies Spaur, Neff, Wilson and Sheriff Dustman. The question, furthermore, has by no means disappeared from the minds of those in Portage County. Perhaps the Air Force will answer, "They were exaggerating," as Major Quintanilla implied in his recently published statements. He did say he thought the April 17 sighting was not a hoax. But frankly, if I were Dale Spaur or any of the other participants, I would balk at having to choose between being labéled "intelligent hoaxter" or "hysterical stargazer." Neither, of course, is close to the truth; but what else can Portage County think of its deputies? Sincerely yours, William B. Weitzel William B. Weitzel, Chairman Pittsburgh NICAP Subcommittee Enclosure Copies to Congressmen Ford Fulton Hutchinson APRIL 17, 1966 "CHASE" OF UFO FROM PORTAGE COUNTY, OHIO, TO CONWAY, PENNSYLVANIA List of points not cleared up or explained by official conclusion offered by Major Hector Quintanilla, Jr., Director of Project Blue Book -- that the sighting was at first of an Echo satellite, then Venus. This list taken from an as yet (June 12, 1966) unanswered query to Major Quintanilla dated May 17, 1966. Letter was sent by Certified Mail; Major Quintanilla signed the receipt. Quotations are from transcript made from tape recorded in Major Quintanilla's presence May 10. 1. The UFO's size: "From berm to berm on 224" "As big as a three-bedroom ranch bone" "Hell, it was as big as a house!" (Spaur) 2. The UFO's brightness: "Like looking down the middle of hell, or something, for a minute. And it was very bright; it'd make your eyes water." (Spaur) 3. The UFO's change in brightness with altitude: "It would get brighter when it would goup, and then it would seem like it would lose part of its intenseness, of the light, as it would come back down to us." (Spaur) 4. The UFO's sound: a humming noise that would change pitch, like "an overloaded transformer when it changes" or like different notes on a "pitchpipe" (Spaur) 5. The UFO's being seen to the north and south. When Spaur and Neff entered the 224-183 junction near Deerfield, they had to turn south. The object was then behind them; when they turned back on to 224, going due east, it then traveled over the road and 'paced' them to the south. Also, going around Canfield: "And we turned off to the right. And it was over to the right of us then, and that throwed it back over to the left hand side of the cruiser. And it seemed like it just went off the road and quit; when we was going a little bit south, it turned and come right back with us. South." (Neff) This shows that they were aware of the distinction between apparent movement, due to road direction changes, and actual movement of the UFO. 6. The ground illuminated by the UFO: "It was no more, after it gained altitude, no more than between three and five hundred feet, 'cause it was light on the ground underneath of it. It was, the illumination from it, when it crossed that big crane, where the strip field is and stuff, you could see it just as plain as you can see that telephone. And this was before daylight." (Spaur) 7. The UFO's metallic appearance: "But that's the metallic part that you could see. You could see it very plain, and it was like an aluminum top that's been used for a while; it was definitely a silver, or light color, but it wasn't like chrome; it was silver color but it wasn't polished silver. Smoky silver. Dull silver, or whatever you'd call it; it was, I saw it very plainly." (Spaur) 8. The UFO's projection: "When it would do this, you could see this one projection on the back. Fifteen or eighteen feet long, it would appear to be. This is strictly an estimate." (Spaur) 9. The UFO's maneuvering: "This front part would change its angle of trim. ... there was this one projection on it that we could see at any time; there were a couple of times it made the same maneuver we couldn't see it." (Spaur) At this time the object appeared to be about 100 feet ahead. 10. The UFO's being more visible when the sky became brighter: "Very clear, there was no problem at all, as a matter of fact, the lighter it got, the better we could see it." A constantly illuminated object would have gone down in relative brightness. PORTAGE COUNTY 4/17/66 UFO page two FEATURES NOT EXPLAINED BY PROJECT BLUE BOOK'S "SATELLITE ** VENUS" CONCLUSION (cont.) 11. The nature of the UFO's disappearance: "We watched it through an antenna. it went PSSSSHHEW, straight up; and I mean, when it went up, friend, it didn't play no games; it went straight up." (Spaur) 12. The UFO's being seen in addition to Venus, at the end of the sighting: "There was one bright spot right off the, about where the nose would have been on the (man in the) moon, but the bright spot had been there, I don't know how long the bright spot had been there, it was quite a while. But when we were watching, it would have been, at this time -- of course, that spot was awful small, it wasn't as big as this, that we were watching." (Spaur) The UFO, at this time, was to the left of the moon. Venus was to the right. 13. The corroboration offered by other witnesses: "Anyway, this thing passes over another police car. He watches it go by, he's spotted it now." Patrolman Wayne Huston, East Palestine police, saw the object come from the northwest, go overhead, and toward the southeast. He described a dome-shaped top, and conical brilliant bottom (whether the bottom was substantial or not, he couldn't tell.) Because of the following, I also asked Major Quintanilla -- at the May IO interview, and in my May 17 letter -- about jet plane involvement: Just after two Salem, Ohio police officers, who had left the station to watch for the UFO's arrival through Salem (there was a route # mixup in the radio traffic), reported seeing it being chased by three jets, the police radio picked up the following transmission: "I'm going in for a closer look ... I'm right above it It's about 45 feet across, and it's trailing something ... like a ball of fire." The officers who observed the jets were Ray Esterly and Lonny Johnson. Radio listeners were Jack Cramer, radio operator, and Richard Whinnery, police lieutenant. All signed statements. The UFO was above where Spaur and Neff were traveling (as inferred from radio reports). It was flying level, and appeared to be about five times the size of the jet immediately (about one mile) behind it. The other jets were about 10 miles away, arcing in from another direction. William B. Weitzel June 12, 1966 J. WILLIAM STANTON COMMITTEE ON 11TH DISTRICT, OHIO BANKING AND CURRENCY 1626 LONGWORTH BUILDING DISTRICT OFFICE: WASHINGTON, D.C. 20515 Congress of the United States 170 NORTH ST. CLAIR STREET PHONE: 225-5306 PAINESVILLE, OHIO PHONE: 352-6167 House of Representatives Washington, D.C. 20515 June 16, 1966 Mr. William B. Weitzel, Chairman Pittsburgh NICAP Subcommittee 5709 Woodmont Street Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15217 Dear Mr. Weitzel: Thanks very much for your most recent letter of June 12. After reading your previous correspondence, I have taken the liberty of sending them to the Air Force. This includes your letter and enclosures of May 11 and May 17. I shall do the same with your letter of June 12. I wish to take this opportunity to express to you my personal thanks for your efforts in regard to the Portage County UFO sightings. You have truly amazed me by the fairness and broadness of your own personal investigation. I have been completely im- pressed with your positive approach to the subject. It is this type of constructive attitude that ac- complishes things rather than simply taking a de- structive position in regard to the Air Force. You are certainly to be complimented. Sincerely yours, Bill Hanton William Stanton WS:agt Spaur and Panzanella both Beauer (Continued From Page 1) that when he first saw the brightly lighted object he thought it was a reflection from the rising sun off an air- plane. He came off the hill and County Times spotted the object again just before the Ohio men arrived. He called Rochester radio base station to have the Greater Pittsburgh Airport contacted, and the four men watched for about 20 minutes as the object rose "straight up" until it was barely visible. ver County's "HOMETOWN" Daily Newspaper Monday, April 18, 1966 Home Delivered 50c Newsstand Weekiy Price 10c 30 Page: OBJECT DISAPPEARS NEAR CONWAY UFO Chased Into County By TOM SCHLEY The two deputies from Por- Spaur and Neff. on instruc- was running low on gas. He TIMES Staff tage County, Ohio, Dale Spaur tions, pursued the brightly light- also had burned a new set of An 86-mile high-speed chase and W. L. Neff, began the chase ed object alone down Ohio Route tires bald from the high speed after an unidentified flying ob- shortly after 5 a.m. on Ohio 14. They were joined at East chase. ject (UFO) ended in Conway Route 224 near Atwater, south Palestine by Patrolman Wayne The three Ohio men asked Sunday morning nearly an hour of Akron and southeast of Ra- Huston of that city in another Panzanella if he had seen the after it began in Ohio. venna, the Portage County seat. police cruiser. object and he pointed it out Conway Patrolman Frank At about the same Po The on into to them He had it few Calls for Civilian Investigation of Sightings 4/27/66 Ramenna, Ohio Record- Courier NICAP Hits AF UFO Investigation 4 By CAROL CLAPP which checks UFO reports. Pittsburgh, said his official dence, issues a statement con- Terming the Air Force's ex- Urging that such investiga- opinion of the Air Force finding cerning their possible validity. planation of a UFO seen here tions be conducted by civilian is that it is not correct. "Many times press releases April 17 "incorrect," a NICAP rather than military agencies, from the Air Force concerning investigator who has b e e n he said it is "ridiculous" to pre- NICAP, (National Investiga- UFO sightings indicate that nei- checking out the sighting for sume that the significance of tions Committee on Aerial Phe- ther their investigators n°0 r more than a week today attack- such phenomena is only mili- nomena), is a non military, Project Blue Book take full ed what he terms insufficient tary and not scientific. non-profit organization which in- account of available informa- investigation of this and other William Weitzel, NICAP in- investigates UFO sightings tion. UFO sightings by Project Blue vestigator and chairman of that throughout the country and af- "This inadequacy, which we Book, the Air Force agency organization's sub-committee in ter analysis of all available evi- have documented in our publi- cation, "The UFO Evidence,' is 'Bluebook's Deputies Sawe 4/25/66 R-C.O harmful for several reasons," Weitzel said. Venus, 4/23/66 Not UFO, Deputy Scoffs "First, it is highly unscientif- ic and fails to contribute to a Won't Visit thorough analysis of UFO phe- At AF Report nomena. The County Record-Courier "Second, when the Air Force publishes UFO information 4/19/66 R.C. Air Force Says which does not represent the to- Air Force "Project Blue- book" investigators, W h 0 On UFO Chase tal situation and particular cases, the public is misled. check reports of Unidentified "Third, ridicule and harass- Flying Objects throughout Sheriff's deputies chased a ment of witnesses often re- the United States, will not be "satellite" for 86 miles -into "In my own mind I'm abso- sults." coming to Portage County to Pennsylvania Sunday morning, lutely sure it wasn't a satellite investigate the sightings by "then, when it passed out of and it wasn't a star." It is unusual, Weitzel said, three a r e a police officers view, focused their eyes .on Deputy Dale Spaur, disturbed for NICAP to issue an opinion early Sunday morning. Venus." by the Air Force's statement this soon after an investigation Major Hector Quintanella, This is what the Air Force unless there is overwhelming head of "Project Bluebook" said in a statement Friday con- that he probably chased a satel- lite Sunday April 17 evidence. e as n r e :- d d t d S 1- d e d ) d e S n n e d i- ir (S i- e Judge Cook Requests Air Force UFO Probe 6 5/3/66 Ranenna, Ohio Record- Courier By CAROL CLAPP they have a complaint. other police officers, and photo- nesses and an examination of "However, what bothers me grossly unfair to them for the Protesting the Air Force's And Judge Cook has a com'- graphs were taken by Mantua the photographs taken by Chief most, as a private citizen and Air Force to reach any conclu- "ridiculous" conclusion and its plaint. Police Chief Gerald Buchert of Buchert. former U. S. Congressman, is sion in this matter until it has himself, tells Stanton in the let- lack of investigation in the April "I am writing to complain an object he saw. "Their conclusion that the ob- that representatives of the conducted a real and complete ter "When I recently served in Stanton Joins in Push For 5 Rovenna, Ohio Record Record-Courier 4/27/66 Checking 'Saucer' Checkers Eleventh District Congress- Stanton said in Washington "Personally, I have never man William Stanton said to- this morning that he plans to heard of NICAP before in my day he is encouraging House forward a lengthy report from life, but this does not creditable mean a William J. Stanton today plan- of public trust, Congressman for what he terms a violation Lashing out at the Air Force By CAROL CLAPP Stanton 5/5/66 Ranenna Record - Check UFO's AF Should 7 YYY STEPSY THE 54 70700770 AF'Mistaken, Ravenna, Ohio Record-Courier 5/6/66 Promises Probe OfUFO Sighting Admitting it made an "error" an error. felt they eventually have iden- in not investigating the April The congressman added that tified all but 16. Since 1947, 17 UFO sighting in Portage Spaulding said the primary rea- there have been more than 10,- County, the Air Force blamed son that the UFO sighting here 000 reported sightings," Stanton a lack of manpower in Project was not investigated by the Air said. Blue Book and promised it will Force at the time was a lack send investigators here, prob- of manpower in Project Blue Stanton said Lt. Col. Spauld- ably next week. Book, the Air Force's investiga- ing will contact Wright Pat- Still Venus to Air Force Ravenna, ohio Record Courier 5/11/66 Blue Book Investigator Doesn't Change His Mind By CAROL CLAPP Palestine policeman and a of UFO awareness" among the Conway, Pa. patrolman, could American people, which, he It's still a satellite and have seen. said, is greater than that on the Venus. Acknowledging that had it Viet Nam war. The head of Project Blue been a satellite the officers He also said "I never doubt Book stuck by the Air Force's started chasing, it would only an observer's word" and ex- original conclusion in regard to have been visible about 10 plained that his job is collect the April 17 UFO sighting in minutes, the major said that data on UFO sightings and at- Portage County after talking after that period of time they tempt to explain them. with three sheriff's deputies probably "chased Venus." Those involved in the sight- for nearly two hours Tuesday. The interview began shortly ing, as well as Dustman and But although Major Hector after 2:30 p.m. At the request Wilson, refuse to accept th e Quintanilla may be thoroughly of Deputy Spaur, a tape record- "satellite Venus" explanation. NICAP Prober Raps Air Force Romenna, Ohio Record-Couries Record. 5/11/66 Charging that the head of that the apparent changes in "He left the impression that "Despite Walter Cronkite's Project Blue Book refused to location, motion and brightness he had come prepared, not to summary, encouraging us to ex- consider certain facts of t h e of the object during the chase evaluate testimony but to con- amine facts and not depend on April 17 UFO sighting told to were due to atmospheric ir- vince those present of his for- generalities and assumptions; him Tuesday by two of the dep- regularities and eyeball move- mer conclusion," W e i t Z e 1 the program examined almost uties involved, a NICAP investi- ments is inconsistent with the charged. no facts supporting UFO reality gator contends Major Hector testimony. The NICAP investigator com- and concentrated on generalities Quintanilla's "implicit attitude "He ignored the tremendous pares Maj. Quintanilla's investi- and presumptions, many of ar, electromagnetic, and-or other tangi- size, brightness and illumina- gation in Portage County with which were stretched and un- e, e," Weitzel said. ent sighting in Por- y is a worthwhile this evidence. is obviously that, despite a n y facts. UFO's cannot be uncon- tion of ground objects. For ex- the CBS Special. "UFO's: founded." Weitzel contends. Judge Cook Raps UFO Probe Ranenna Record Courier 5/12/66 They Know It Wasn't Venus,' He Contends the American peo- about UFO's Force cannot iden- sighted in the skies it observers, they theme of a letter as Court Judge Rob- is writing to Cong. Air Force can le- explain. a sighting, do SO but when explain a UFO re- ould admit that and ige Cook contended to Major Hector determination im- the conclusion of Tuesday that the as right in its origi- it that two Portage ties chased "a satel- Venus," Judge Vhat those boys saw re not swallowing tion about Venus, esn't have form and it doesn't hover 100 ground and cast a onto two officers lice cruiser. Venus and maneuver-the nows it doesn't, we sn't, and the public 1 good enough ex- it's not enough, hink the Air Force what the deputies arged. wo other police of- rom East Palestine in the chase, and Conway, Pa.) saw, it they simply say should at least it." nton. us." esn't. aid. xplain it? Force feels it has obligation to try to h and every UFO th an explanation sible. Venus is not explanation," Cook n UFOs Natural Phenomena,' Record-Courier MAY 25 1966 Air Force Tells Stanton By CAROL CLAPP vision, Office of Legislative Lia- garding the recent report of an All UFO sightings for the ison. Department of the Air unidentified flying object in past 19 years - including the Force, said. your district." April 17 one in Portage County "It has been proved almost Col. Powell indicates in the - are explainable as "misinter- conclusively that reported aerial in Air Force Tells Mantua Police Chief Gerald (During an Air Force inter- Buchert, meanwhile, had at- view in Portage County, h 0 W- tempted to photograph the ob- ever, Deputy Spaur described ject he saw to the southeast, the object he and Deputy Neff Cong. Stanton toward Atwater. observed as being "as big as a house" and hovering several The Air Force release makes hundred feet above the cruiser no. mention of the other three on Rt. 224, shortly after it UFOs "Natural' officers, only Deputy Spaur. arose from over tree tops). MAY 25 1966 "Police Chief Gerald Buchert of Mantua, 0., and Deputy Dale The two officers also said the Spaur of Ravenna, O., reported object they "chased" stopped, Con't Pagel to the Air Force that they had appeared to wait for them on observed an unidentified flying two occasions, rose, descended, UFO phenomena pose no threat object at approximately 5 a.m. and maneuvered beautifully"). to the security of the United on April 17. Judge Cook urged Cong. States and that the present Air "Chief Buchert took a picture Stanton to call for a' more Force program dealing with of the object he observed. He thorough investigation of the UFO sightings has been well submitted the negative of the UFO sighting here after the Air photograph to the Air Force for Force announced its conclusion 5/25 Stanton Wants Expanded 5/25/66 Revenue Record-Garier Investigation of UFOs Cong. William Stanton of the ways the possibility that analy- sightings. The team should in- 11th District is writing to Sec- sis of new sightings may pro- clude a clinical psychologist and retary of Defense Robert Mc- vide some additions to scientific a physical scientist. Namara urging that "serious knowledge of value to the Air consideration" be given to the Force. Moreover, some of the -At each Air Force Systems Air Force Scientific Advisory case records (into) which the Command base a skilled Air Board's recommendations to ex- committee looked that were list- Force investigator should be Terms Conclusion Air Force's Of Portage Probe As 'Ridiculous' Courier Investigation of UFO By CAROL CLAPP people want the truth," urges the Air Frrce. "Certainly the need for im- Cook believes that Blue Book proving Project Blue Book's in- investigative techniques should vestigative techniques of UFO be improved for each and every sightings has been made evi- claimed sighting. dent here in Portage County," "Explain those which can be Common Pleas Court Judge explained. But if there are Robert E. Cook said today, re- those which can't be explained iterating his belief that the Air -such as the one in Portage Force conclusion of the sight- County - say so;" Cook urges. Ronenna, Ohio Record ing is "still ridiculous." "Investigate promptly; check Cook said Cong William out the information: every MAY 26 1966 UFO Investigative Unit Dates Back to 1948 From Sign to Grudge to Blue Book By CAROL CLAPP Force's UFO investigative unit (This UFO report, of course, shaped "airship" was reported (First of a Series) which, for the past 19 years, the Air Force has not attempted flying against the wind. Relegated to what one might has attempted to identify what- to identify). But the Air Force can be be tempted to call a "cubby- ever it is all those people have Neither has it had a chance to forgiven for not investigating hole" in the Foreign Technology been seeing in the sky. investigate sightings such as these sightings - after all, there Division building at Wright- People, of course, have report- those reported in the Norfolk, were no propelled aircraft at Patterson Air Force base in ed "seeing something" up there Va. area Aug. 6, 1860, when two that time, so of course there Dayton are a major, a lieuten- they couldn't identify for much objects, one red and one green, was no Air Force, and con- ant, a sergeant, a secretary and longer than that. flew together overhead with an sequently, no Project Blue Book Then how about the possibil- Yet one of those which has Socorro Sighting ity the UFO's could be 0 m not "turned out to be a hoax" some other nation? bothers the major. Socorro. Radar and other air defense On April 24, 1964, a New devices would pick them up im- Mexico policeman, Lonnie Stumps Blue Book mediately, he says. Zamora, heard what he thought What about radar jamming was an explosion as he chased a equipment or aircraft with "ra- speeding car south of Socorro. dar invisibility?" The major Fearing it might have been a By CAROL CLAPP smiling. said there are a number of dynamite shack blowing up, he (Second in a Series) Yet he is admittedly troubled devices for spotting objects in abandoned the chase and W e n t "UFO's are not experimental by a reported landing of a cigar- the air, and if one should fail to investigate. aircraft of the United States." shaped object in Socorro, N. M. others would be certain to detect Spotting an object some 150 "Neither are they experimen- on April 24, 1964. The policeman them. yards away, he at first throught tal aircraft of anv other na- who spotted the object on the Why is he so sure the UFO's it was a car unturned onto its tion." With the ments, Ma during an Blue Book ton, shatte popular th origins of Then CO restrial? "I have possibility There cou out there major said lieve that UFO prob lieve that has visited "I belie not in flyir What about reports from such qualified observers as pi- lots, for example, who should be accustomed to quickly identify- ing any number of conventional objects or atmospheric phenom- Maj. Quintanilla said he "can't understand" why every- one always refers to such sight- ings. "In the time I've been here, I've never had a pilot report a UFO - but they have used the UFO channels to report meteors, na? missiles Any movie film purporting to show UFO's is studied and an- alyzed by Wright Patterson's Motion Picture Laboratory, while all still negatives and prints are checked with photo in- terpretors at the air base. Maj. Quintanilla emphasized that "the interpretation of the stimulus (why the observer thought he saw what he said he saw) is what gives us trouble." "We are all influenced by and of course, astronomical checks are made to determine if any stars or planets W e were e exceptionally bright or if meteors or comets were report- Misinterpretation' Blamed For Many 'Saucer' Sightings are misinterpreting what they An awful lot of people h a V e are seeing. "misinterpreted" things in h the skies over the United States during the 19 years Blue Book ed. By CAROL CLAPP (Third in a Series) Why do people - thousands of them - see and report Un- identified Flying Objects? that silv ciga HEAT neu dow Ju For whi the 301 upp bea Fi at: out was The Quir For dure ing Bool Th an muc vest "unl In: in thin seeil natu lem Record-Courier, Thursday, June 9, 1966 Temperature Inversions Can Confuse Inexperienced Radar Operators (Fourth in a Series) "Most should be able to," the perience considerable interfer- In other words, I asked, when causes of UFO sightings, UFO's lite or Venus move across a mer Blue Book chief: "Does a By CAROL CLAPP major admitted. ence. all such "conventional" objects must be natural phenomena? car, light the ground "as if it UFO have to come in and land A UFO appears to hover, then After all, if radar reports are "People keep bringing this as airplanes, weather balloons, "Yes," the major replied. were noon" with a brilliant on your desk. ?" zip away at incredible speed. It inaccurate enough that tempera- up," the major sighed. satellites, etc., along with What about Portage County's whiteness, or hover at extreme- makes a 90 or 180-degree turn ture inversion and ground clut- "I have never found a corre- hoaxes, have been ruled out as UFO on April 17? Can a satel- ly low altitudes such as 150 Maj. Quintanilla, who has ob- ter can be misinterpreted by lation between alleged electrial feet? viously heard that one innumer- at fantastic speed, then almost able times, said he would ac- stops. It seems to "follow" a experienced operators for UFO' stoppages of autos and UFO's," The major smiled. "Do you cept the word of astronomers.* car or airplane. how effective is our radar net- the major said. Smiling, he add- think there is any possibility of Tets chase a UFO which has work? ed, "in most instances when the a hoax involved in our sight- He said they would know "weeks b ti U k 0 Er n e la a in S b p V V J n la p tl W st b S of li S di tv ti moving in a pattern through the this is what happened. air? Project Blue Book -- An Effective American Defense Tool or Just an Image? By CAROL CLAPP nocent weather balloon to an the photo labs which he says Air Force Regulation 200- The fact that he described it (Last in a Series) enemy aircraft or missile, to a he can use if necessary. 2, Paragraph 3-c. Air Force as "big as a house and hover- Just how important is Project spaceship - or an hallucination. Of course, the information of activities must reduce the per- ing 50 feet off the ground" can satellite tracking stations and centage of unknowns to the Blue Book? be attributed to "exaggera- If appearances are indicative, It would seem that for a peri- weather balloon launching sites, minimum. Analysis thus far has tion" or "misinterpretation." one is almost forced to come to od of time the security of the etc. scattered throughout the provided explanation for all but The Air Force's Scientific Ad- the conclusion: "not very." United States COULD be in country is accessible by tele- a few of the sightings reported. visory Board's Ad Hoc Commit- "Tf there is no such thing as chiect is phone for investigation nur- These unexplained sightings are tee to Review Project Blue saw. MISCELLANEOUS NOTES ERRATA: (1) The phrase quoted in paragraph two, page four, of the discussion of Blue Book's investigation, attributed to Congressman Stanton, was actually said by Judge Robert Cook; printed in the May 5, 1966 Record-Courier article about Congressman Stanton. (2) In the second paragraph of the April 21 entry of the Initial Phase Summary, "Mr. Rex" should read, "Mr. Rex Lysyj". (3) On page six of The Chase, "Kwaitanowski" should read "Kwiatanowski". ANGLE MEASUREMENTS: Were made with simple instrument made with protractor and ruler, allowing line-of-sight readings while witnesses pointed (rotating protractor was weighted for 90° vertical). Horizontal angles measured similarly. Angle of sun in Section Map of Economy Borough is uncertain, but direction of UFO was 6° greater. Error in other angle measurements, t or - 1°. Magnetic compass used for road bearing measurements. (Sun angle from compass, but near ferrous clutter.) ADDITIONAL SIGHTINGS: More activity from UFOs was reported in Portage County during this investigation, but the P-13 investigation took priority. Some of these involved law enforcement officers, but these men were reluctant to discuss or report them, chiefly because of the turmoil that resulted from the P-13 event, and the Air Force's evaluation procedure. One deputy offered corroboration of the initial p-13 sighting, but refused permission to use his name, even confidentially. He did not wish to get involved. At this time (evening of April 17) Deputy Spaur had already been considerably bothered by the news media, although he never failed to cooperate as fully as his schedule permitted.

nara / coll_grf-0196 / doc

1965-66: (16) HR866 - Unidentified Flying Objects (2)

ID: 471690403
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id	471690403
sourceUrl	https://catalog.archives.gov/id/471690403
contentType	document
collections	Edward Hutchinson Papers Sponsored Bills Files
subjects	Legislation Unidentified flying objects
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url	https://catalog.archives.gov/id/471690403
naId	471690403
coverageEndDate	logicalDate 1966-08-01 month 8 year 1966
coverageStartDate	logicalDate 1966-04-01 month 4 year 1966
levelOfDescription	fileUnit
recordType	description
ocrSource	nara-archive

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