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Press Conference of Vance Webb, Louis Mills, and Bernie Hillenbrank
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Digitized from Box 20 of the White House Press Releases at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
JANUARY 26, 1976
OFFICE OF THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY
THE WHITE HOUSE
PRESS CONFERENCE
OF
VANCE WEBB, PRESIDENT,
LOUIS MILLS, VICE PRESIDENT,
AND
BERNIE HILLENBRANK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
OF THE
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES
THE BRIEFING ROOM
2:44 P.M. EST
MR. CARLSON: As you are aware, the President met
for thirty minutes with the Executive Committee of the National
Association of Counties. Attending the meeting were Vance
Webb, the President of the Association, Louis Mills,
Vice President of the Association, and Bernie Hillenbrank,
the Executive Director.
Here with a summary of the meeting and to answer
your questions are these gentlemen.
MR. WEBB: I am Vance Webb, President of the
National Association of Counties, and my home State is
California. I flew in from Taft. It is in Kern County,
is probably the best way to identify.
We flew in to have a discussion with the President
today regarding his Message on the budget and such as that.
We certainly support much of his program providing that
the counties' input is also used. I don't know who to blame
for that but oftentimes the emphasis is put on Governors and
on cities when actually counties are the Government that is
closest to the people. In fact, of the 205 million people
in the United States, 188 million or 93 percent are governed
by or receive services from counties.
So we feel we are the closest to the people and that
perhaps our input into proposed legislation is very, very
important. If we are given an opportunity to use our
expertise and our people's expertise, then I feel that we
can go in and help in promoting this legislation with the
Congress.
Q
Do you have any specific proposals to the
President?
MR. WEBB: The proposals that we offered today were
to perhaps have a little more input into his legislation, that
he perhaps use some of our suggestions since we are the ones
who are perhaps closest to the people and know the problems.
MORE
- 2 -
Q
Did you make any suggestions?
MR. WEBB: Yes, that we be included, if possible,
in the Domestic Council -- in their deliberations, perhaps, so
we might have an opportunity to give them a little of the
grass roots thinking.
Q
Mr. Webb, I take it you didn't care too much
for the Economic Advisers Report that they put out today?
MR. WEBB: The Economic Advisers Report was rather a
shock, let me say that, to us, because we feel that it was not
too accurate as to the conditions at the local level.
Q
What do you mean?
MR. WEBB: All right. I am going to let Mr. Mills
comment. I don't want to hog all the time here.
MR. MILLS: I am Louis Mills, the elected County
Executive from Orange County, New York, and the Hudson Valley.
We took exception strenuously to the report this
morning. We feel that the facts are entirely different from
the basis on which they must have phrased their report.
I can tell you that in all of the counties in New York State
they are absolutely wrong. In my own county, for example, our
unpaid taxes are three times what they were a year ago. Our
surplus is one-sixth of what it was a year ago and we have an
attrition of our work force already.
I know that is true in the large counties surrounding
New York City -- Nassau County, West Chester -- major layoffs
taking place -- Suffolk County and right on across the State
and across the Nation.
We also feel that while we support the President
on the block grant programs, we only do so if it is fully
recognized that any reduction in aid to localities is going
to have a major impact on county government; that in fact
since we base our revenues on the real property tax, and this
tax does not respond to an upturn in the economy as rapidly as
the income tax, that we are in no position to accept the greater
part of the reductions that might occur.
This is why we told the President that we feel we
deserve a seat on the Domestic Council along with the Governors
and with the mayors so that we can have input in the beginning
and be able to knock out of the box the kind of arguments that
were put forward in this report that was released this noon.
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- 3 -
Q
Is it your contention, then, that the Economic
Advisers Report paints too rosy a picture as to recovery.
MR. MILLS: The report as far as I am concerned, is
entirely fallacious, its findings are wrong.
MR. HILLENBRANK: It is Alice in Wonderland.
I am Burnett Hillenbrank, the Executive Director
of the National Association of Counties.
We just conducted a survey of 15 of the largest
counties in the United States accounting for about 30-some
million population and those reports are unanimous in that they
are tight against their budget restrictions. Many of them -- in
the case of California, for example, Mr. Webb's counties --
there is no way for them to increase the ad valorem taxes.
The 16 counties that were represented on our Executive Committee
this morning made detailed reports that there is no way that
they can absorb additional costs, particularly in the human
services areas -- health, education and welfare -- and that
emphasizes why it is very important that the President get
a total picture of what is happening and why we want Governors,
mayors and county officials to be formally made a part of the
Domestic Council when the President is making his decisions
about block grants and other matters.
Q
Did you tell the President that the report was
Alice in Wonderland, it was fallacious? Did you use those
words?
MR. HILLENBRANK: I just used Alice in Wonderland.
We told him it was fallacious, it had no basis in fact.
Q What did he say?
MR. HILLENBRANK: He said that he felt -- not directly
quoting him -- but he felt that perhaps their report was
exaggerated or overstated.
Q
That the Administration report was exaggerated?
MR. MILLS: His term was "overstated."
Q
What, that the report was overstated?
MR. MILLS: The report was overstated. He, however,
had not seen it because it was only released an hour or so
ago.
Q
What specifics are you mentioning? What specifically
was overstated?
MR. MILLS: I cannot speak for what the President
said, but he had --
Q
What were you referring to specifically?
- 4 -
MR. MILLS: The report was put in front of him and he
had just seen it. As far as we were concerned, we saw it this
morning several hours ago. I am referring to the reference
to surplus, the reference to expanded services. My lord,
county governments are cutting back on services, they are not
expanding services.
MR. HILLENBRANK: The inference is very clear from
that report that we can absorb additional costs at the local
budget for health, education and welfare and it is not true,
we cannot do it.
MR. MILLS: They refer to a rise of two to three
percent in local government purchase which they say represents
90 percent of our expenditures. Well, two or three percent
is exclusive of the inflation factor, it is much more like
13 or 14 percent.
Q
I am just interested in you giving us just a
little more detail in characterization of what the President
said. He indicated that it was exaggerated?
MR. MILLS: He glanced at the sheet which was the first
time we presented it to him, he had not had an opportunity to
know about this --
Q
It is a wire service story you are talking about?
MR. MILLS: Yes, not the report, and that is the
information upon which he made his comment that it was
overstated.
Q
Your case is overstated or his Economic
Report is overstated?
MR. MILLS: His Economic Report is overstated.
MR. HILLENBRANK: The press story is overstated --
too optimistic.
Q Let's start all the way over and get this in
one clean sentence. What is overstated?
MR. MILLS: The wire service story of the Economic
Report and, therefore, we have to assume the Economic Report
that he said was overstated.
Q
Did he do anything to assure you that the report
was not quite as overstated as the news account? How did he
respond to your arguments that it was an Alice in Wonderland
report?
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- 5 -
MR. MILLS: I think he took into account what we
said. He could hardly say much more about this since he
had not been briefed on it in advance.
Q Gentlemen, what we are all trying to get at
here, you are familiar with your problems and we are not
and we are trying to find out what it is that the economic
advisers have said that counties are able to do or ought to
be required to do.
MR. MILLS: That is a different question. I can answer
that easily.
Q What is it that you had the problem with?
MR. MILLS: First of all, the report says, one,
that the increase in cost -- local government purchases, for
example, which account for 90 percent of the expenditures --
would rise rise by two to three percent during 1976 and I
say to you that it is going to be more like 12, 13 or 14
percent or more because this does not take into account
inflation. It also refers to the fact that you are more
likely to build up surpluses. Building up surpluses is precisely
what we are not doing. They are dropping it at a rate where
they are near extinction.
The opening sentence of this news story is that "State
and local governments should be able to cope with their
financial problems without unduly adding to the tax burdens
of their citizens." We are in much worse shape than the
Federal Government.
Q
I see. And you are saying that if the Federal
Government proposes another cut in Federal taxes but keeps
unemployment at above 7 percent that that is going to put
the counties in a new crunch, in other words, and you will
have to raise your own taxes?
MR. MILLS: It hits us immediately. Our unemployment
rate has a direct effect on our welfare costs and we are the
ones that deliver welfare. I may say the news media frequently
does not seem to understand that fact.
Q
How about the Administration?
MR. MILLS: I think the President is aware of it
and I think he made that very clear.
Q
Gentlemen, we understand that you are not happy
with the report because that is just predictions. What are
you unhappy with insofar as the Administration's actions?
What do you wish the Administration were doing that it is not
doing?
MORE
- 6 -
MR. HILLENBRANK: We want to be sure that when the
President of the United States makes some decisions about
national programs that impact on cities, counties and States
at the State and local level, that we have an adequate vehicle
to present our position. If judgments are being made on the
basis that there is surpluses at the State and local level,
we find that to be a preposterous kind of a conclusion and
what we want is a formal way, as formal advisers to the
Domestic Council, so that the input of Governors, mayors and
county officials can be presented to the President of the
United States so that he is getting both sides of the equation.
Q
Did the President voice any reaction to that?
MR. HILLENBRANK: We came away with the impression
that he was favorable for the working out of details so that
we could adequately be consulted on this,
Q
Who asked for this meeting today -- you or the
President?
Q
The President at this point when he signed that
report said that he was going to continue to follow the same
economic policies that he has followed for the last 18 months,
the same basic policies. Are you saying that those basic
policies are going to force you at the county level to increase
taxes?
MR. HILLENBRANK: We are saying that we conducted a
survey of the urban counties and this morning we had 15 of the
counties represented and in none of those counties is there
any capacity to absorb any more cost. We are at a budget
crunch where our alternatives now are to discontinue services
or to increase taxes, and in most places that is politically
impossible and in some cases, as in California, it is
constitutionally impossible.
Q
Did you answer the question about who asked for
the meeting?
MR. HILLENBRANK: The other question was who asked
for the meeting. We did, the Executive Committee of the
National Association of Counties.
Q
Do you think that the Administration has tried
to white-wash the situation in this report?
MR. HILLENBRANK: Well, I think you are drawing too
much on the report. We got the report just a few minutes
ago and we were certainly very sharply critical of the press
account of what the report says. What we are after, in a positive
sense, is a capacity to work with the President of the United
States.
MORE
- 7 -
We want grants consolidated if we can have them, but
we cannot have the grants consolidated on the basis of us having
to put up more money. We don't have any more money at the
local level. What we were after in our discussions with the
President is a mechanism to be sure that those facts got into
the equation before decisions were made.
Q
Gentlemen, the President's block grant approach
does not require any additional input by States, cities or
counties, does it?
MR. HILLENBRANK: That is not correct. This morning
representatives of the Governors, the mayors and the county
officials met with the key staffers at the OMB and started
the dialogue about helping to draft the specific proposals
that the President will submit to the Hill. The President has
assured us that we will have an input now before those proposals
are in firm shape. We will be consulted absolutely in the
process started this morning at 9 o'clock at the Office of the
Budget and Management.
Q
I am sorry. I misstated my question, maybe.
What I meant was the President's block grant proposals will
not require any additional taxation at the local level, will
it? I don't understand what you are so upset about concerning
block grants.
MR. HILLENBRANK: Well, some analysts say that they
won't and some analysts say that we will and and what we want
is an official input to be certain that the proposals as they
are finally submitted to the Hill do not require any additional
tax effort at the State and local level.
Q
I am reading in your press release here where
you are talking about unemployment and so forth. Can you
address yourself to that? What is the problem for counties
with unemployment? You want a Federal program to reduce
unemployment, to help counties, is that it?
MR. HILLENBRANK: Well, you have really asked two
questions and I will respond to the first and maybe Bernie or
Vance can respond to the second.
The way it is impacting so seriously on us is that
people are running out of the unemployment benefits, they are
on extended benefits or they are running out entirely and it
is increasing our recipient caseload in social services, which
is a direct county charge, and this is going to get worse.
Even with an upturn of the economy, there is going to be a
considerable lag before we see an improvement in that caseload
total.
MORE
- 8 -
Meanwhile, the Federal income tax, if you have an up-
turn in the economy, is going to improve, but the real
property tax totals are not going to improve for several
years later. There is a substantial lag there.
Q And you would like to see more pump priming
to get more people back to work. That is what you told him
today, is that it?
MR. MILLS: I am sure that is what we want.
MR. WEBB: I think I might answer that. Actually,
if we don't keep people at work or put them back to work,
they are going to go on a welfare program and we would
much rather get some benefit from the money that is spent
rather than have them on the welfare program.
You asked about the block grants also, whether this
was sufficient. It is increasing all the time mandatory
programs that are given to us to increase more services.
It is impossible to increase these additional services with no
more money but still more people to take care of and also with
the inflation moving in. Also, your head is bumping the ceiling
and there is no place to go.
It was mentioned that California has a ceiling on
taxes. It does. S.B. 90 which happened in California, you
cannot increase the tax rate in any of those government
agencies. So as long as the costs are coming up, more
services are needed to be provided and you can't go up any
on the taxes; something has to happen, and that is our concern.
Q
You are getting the sense here that the President
is moving as the Economic Report and the budget show, that you
are dumping more of a load on the counties and the counties
being unable to support this financially?
MR. WEBB: I know there are perhaps additional
programs that are being suggested and it does not always
come from the President, it can come from other agencies.
I am talking about the interpretation of the law by
departments oftentimes can build up a program that really it
was not the intent or purpose of Congress or the Administration
to have.
In other words, it is the departments on down the line
who interpret the law just a little different than it was and
they say the law means you should provide these additional
services when actually we don't feel that that is true.
Q
How do you feel about Mr. Reagan's proposals
for $90 billion going back?
MR. WEBB: I am not familiar with Mr. Reagan's
proposal. I have a tough time reading my own mail.
MORE
- 9 -
Q
Gentlemen, what you said sounds a little different
from the representatives from the States and cities, the Governors
and mayors who were here last week, the day that I think the
President's budget came out, and the President gave them a
briefing on it. They came out and told us that they were
100 percent behind his block grant approach, that they were
mildly disappointed at the funding in some programs, but that
they understood he was trying to cut the budget and they could
live with that. I get the feeling that you folks don't feel
that you can live with what the President is proposing.
MR. WEBB: We think that perhaps in some of the
drawing of the legislation to go to the Hill it should have
a little more impact from local government. There are things
that money, I think, is being spent for that perhaps is not
as necessary as some of the human services. So if we were
permitted to put our thinking into the bill, I believe we could
adjust the expenditures to where we would get more mileage,
more help to people and it might not be too much of an extra
cost.
THE PRESS: Thank you.
END
(AT 3:01 P.M. EST)