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Debate between Gerald R. Ford and James E. Carter, College of William and Mary [Ford Speech or Statement]
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Debate between Gerald R. Ford and James E. Carter, College of William and Mary [Ford Speech or Statement]
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Digitized from Box 33 of the White House Press Releases at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
OCTOBER 22, 1976
OFFICE OF THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY
(Williamsburg, Virginia)
THE WHITE HOUSE
DEBATE BETWEEN
GERALD R. FORD
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
AND
JAMES E. CARTER
THE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE OF
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
THE PHI BETA KAPPA HALL
THE COLLEGE OF WILLIAM AND MARY
9:30 P.M. EDT
THE MODERATOR: I am Barbara Walters, moderator
of the last of the debates of 1976 between Gerald R. Ford,
Republican candidate for President, and Jimmy Carter,
Democratic candidate for President.
Welcome, President Ford. Welcome Governor
Carter, and thank you for joining us this evening.
The debate takes place before an audience in
Phi Beta Kappa Memorial Hall on the campus of the College of
William and Mary in historical Williamsburg, Virginia. It
is particularly appropriate in this Bicentennial year that we
meet on these grounds to hear this debate.
Two hundred years ago, five William and Mary students
met at nearby Raleigh Tavern to form Phi Beta Kappa, a
fraternity designed, they wrote, "to search out and dispel
the clouds of falsehood by debating without reserve the
issues of the day."
In that spirit of debate -- "without reserve,"
"to dispel the clouds of falsehood" -- gentlemen, let us
proceed.
The subject matter of this debate is open,
covering all issues and topics. Our questioners
tonight are Joseph Kraft, syndicated columnist; Robert
Maynard, editorial writter for the Washington Post; and
Jack Nelson, Washington Bureau Chief of the Los Angeles
Times.
The ground rules tonight are as follows:
Questioners will alternate questions between the candidates.
The candidate has up to two and a half minutes to answer
the question. The other candidate then has up to two minutes
to respond. If necessary, a questioner may ask a follow-up
question for further clarification, and in that case the
candidate has up to two minutes to respond.
MORE
Page 2
As was initially agreed to by both candidates,
the answers should be responsive to the particular ques-
tions.
Finally, each candidate has up to three minutes
for a closing statement.
President Ford and Governor Carter do not have
prepared notes or comments with them this evening. They
may make notes and refer to them during the debate.
It has been determined that President Ford
would take the first question in this last debate.
Mr. Kraft, you have that first question for
President Ford.
MORE
Page 3
MR. KRAFT: Mr. President, I assume that the
Americans all know that these are difficult times and
that there is no pie in the sky and that they don't
expect something for nothing. So, I would like to ask
you, as a first question, as you look ahead in the next
four years, what sacrifices are you going to call to
the American people to make? What price are you going
to ask them to pay to realize your objectives?
Let me add, Governor Carter, that if you felt
that it was appropriate to answer that question in your
comments, as to what price it would be appropriate for
the American people to pay for a Carter Administration,
I think that would be proper, too.
Mr. President?
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Kraft, I believe that the
American people in the next four years, under a Ford
Administration, will be called upon to make those necessary
sacrifices to preserve the peace, which we have; which
means, of course, that we will have to maintain an
adequate military capability; which means, of course,
that we will have to add, I think, a few billion dollars
to our defense appropriations to make certain that we
have adequate strategic forces, adequate conventional
forces.
I think the American people will be called
upon to be in the forefront in giving leadership to the
solution of those problems that must be solved in the
Middle East, in Southern Africa and any problems that
might arise in the Pacific.
The American people will be called upon to
tighten their belts a bit in meeting some of the problems
that we face domestically. I don't think that America
can go on a big spending spree with a whole lot of new
programs that would add significantly to the Federal
budget.
I believe that the American people, if given
the leadership that I would expect to give, would be
willing to give this thrust to preserve the peace and
the necessary restraint at home to hold the lid on spending
so that we could, I think, have a long overdue and
totally justified tax decrease for the middle income
people. And then, with the economy that would be
generated from a restraint on spending and a tax reduction
primarily for the middle income people, then I think
the American people would be willing to make those
sacrifices for peace and prosperity in the next four
years.
MORE
Page 4
MR. KRAFT: Could I be a little bit more
specific, Mr. President?
THE PRESIDENT: Surely.
MR. KRAFT: Doesn't your policy really imply that
we are going to have to have a pretty high rate of
unemployment over a fairly long time, that growth is
going to be fairly slow, and that we are not going to
be able to do very much in the next four or five years
to meet the basic agenda of our national needs in the
cities, in health, in transit, and a whole lot of other
things like that?
THE PRESIDENT: Not at all.
MR. KRAFT: Aren't those the real costs?
THE PRESIDENT: No, Mr. Kraft. We are spending
very significant amounts of money now, some $200 billion
a year, almost 50 percent of our total expenditure by
the Federal Government at the present time for human
needs. Now, we will probably have to increase that to
some extent, but we don't have to have growth in spending
that will blow the lid off and add to the problems of
inflation.
I believe we can meet the problems within the
cities of this country and still give a tax reduction.
I proposed, as you know, a reduction to increase the
personal exemption from $750 to $1,000, with the fiscal
program that I have, and if you look at the projections
it shows that we will reduce unemployment, that we will
continue to win the battle against inflation and, at the
same time, give the kind of quality of life that I believe
is possible in America: a job, a home for all those
that will work and save for it, safety in the streets,
health care that is affordable. These things can be
done if we have the right vision and the right restraint
and the right leadership.
MORE
Page 5
THE MODERATOR: Governor Carter, your response,
please.
MR. CARTER: I want to say first of all, I
think in case of a Carter Administration the sacrifices
would be much less. Mr. Ford's own environmental agency
has projected a 10 percent unemployment rate by '78 if
he is President. The American people are ready to make
sacrifices if they are part of the process, if they know
that they are helping to make decisions and won't be
excluded from being an involved party to the national
purpose.
The major effort that we must put forward is
to put our people back to work. I think that this is
one example where a lot of people have selfish, grasping
ideas now. I remember in 1973 in the depth of the energy
crisis when President Nixon called on the American people
to make a sacrifice to cut down on the waste of gasoline,
to cut down on the speed of automobiles. It was a tre-
mendous surge of patriotism. "I want to make a sacrifice
for my country."
I think we can call together, with strong leadership
in the White House, business, industry and labor and say,
let us have voluntary price restraints, let us lay down
some guidelines so we don't have continuing inflation.
We can also have an end to the extremes. We
now have one extreme, for instance, of some welfare
recipients who by taking advantage of the welfare laws,
the housing laws, the Medicaid laws and the food stamp
laws, make over $10,000 a year, and they don't have to pay
any taxes on it. The other extreme, just 1 percent of
the richest people in our country derive 25 percent of
all of the tax benefits, so both of those extremes grasp
for advantage and the person who has to pay that expense
is the middle income family who is still working for a
living and they have to pay for the rich who have the
privile.ge and for the poor who are not working.
But I think a balanced approach with everybody
being part of it, striving for unselfishness, could help
as they did in 1973 to let people sacrifice for their
own country. I know I am ready for it and I think the
American people are, too.
MORE
Page 6
THE MODERATOR: Mr. Maynard, your question
to Governor Carter.
MR. MAYNARD: Governor, by all indications,
the voters are so turned off by this election campaign
so far that only half intend to vote. One major reason
for this apathetic electorate appears to be the low
level at which this campaign has been conducted. It has
digressed frequently from important issues into allega-
tions of blunders, brainwashing, and fixations on lust
in Playboy. What responsibility do you accept for the low
level of this campaign for the nation's highest office?
MR. CARTER: I think a major reason for the
decrease in participation that we have experienced ever
since 1960 has been the deep discouragement of the American
people about the performance of public officials, when
you have got 7-1/2 million, 8 million people out of work,
when you have got three times as much inflation as you
had during the last eight-year Democratic Administration,
when you have the highest deficits in history, when you
have it becoming increasingly difficult for a family to
put a child through college or own a home, there is a
national inclination to be turned off. Also in the after-
math of Vietnam, Cambodia, Watergate and the CIA, people
have felt that they have been betrayed by public officials.
I have to admit that in the heat of a campaign --
I have been in 30 primaries -- I have been campaigning
for 23 months and I have made many mistakes, and I think
this is part of being a human being. I have to think my
campaign has been an open one. The Playboy thing, I don't
know how to deal with it exactly. I agreed to give the
interview to Playboy. Other people have done it who are
notable, Governor Jerry Brown or Walter Cronkite, Albert
Schweitzer, Mr. Ford's own Secretary, Mr. Simon. Many
other people, but they weren't running for President.
In retrospect, from hindsight, I would not have
given that interview, if I decided to do it over again. If
I should ever decide in the future to discuss my deep
Christian beliefs and condemnation and sinfulness, I
will use another forum besides Playboy. I will say this,
I am doing the best I can to get away from that. During
the next ten days the American people will not see the
Carter campaign running television advertisements or
newspaper advertisements based on a personal attack on
President Ford's character. I believe that the opposite
is true with President Ford's campaign and I hope that
we can leave those issues in this next ten days about
personalities and mistakes of the past- - we have both made
some mistakes -- and talk about unemployment, inflation,
housing, education, taxation, government organization,
stripping away of secrecy and the things that are crucial
to the American people.
MORE
Page 7
I regret these things in my own long campaign
that have been mistaken, but I am trying to do away
with those the last ten days.
THE MODERATOR: Thank you, Governor Carter.
President Ford, your response?
THE PRESIDENT: I believe that the American
people have been turned off in this election, Mr. Maynard,
for a variety of reasons. We have seen on Capitol Hill,
in the Congress, a great many allegations of wrongdoing,
of alleged immorality. Those are very disturbing to
the American people. They wonder how an elected representa-
tive can serve them and participate in such activities
serving in the Congress of the United States. Yes, and
I am certain many, many Americans were turned off by the
revelations of Watergate, a very, very bad period of time
in American political history. Yes, and thousands, maybe
millions, of Americans were turned off because of the
problems that came out of our involvements in Vietnam.
But on the other hand, I found on July 4 of this
year a new spirit born in America. We were celebrating
our Bicentennial and I find that there is a movement, as
I traveled around the country, of greater interest in this
campaign. Now like any hard working person seeking public
office -- in the campaign inevitably sometimes you will
use rather graphic language, and I am guilty of that justlike,
I think, most others in the political arena. But I
do make a pledge that in the next ten days when we are
asking the American people to make one of the most impor-
tant decisions in their lifetime, because I think this
election is one of the most vital in the history of America,
that we do together what we can to stimulate voter participa-
tion.
MORE
Page 8
THE MODERATOR: Thank you, President Ford.
Mr. Nelson, your question to President Ford.
MR. NELSON: You mentioned Watergate, Mr.
President, and you became President because of Watergate,
so don't you owe the American people a special obligation
to explain in detail your role of limiting one of the
original investigations of Watergate-- that was the one by
the House Banking Committee--and I know you have answered
questions on this before, but there are questions that
still remain, and I think people want to know what your
role was.
Will you name the persons you talked to in
connection with that investigation, and since you say
you have no recollection of talking to anyone from the
White House, would you be willing to open, for example,
examination of the White House tapes of conversations
during that period?
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Nelson, I testified before
two committees of the House and Senate on precisely the
questions that you have asked. The testimony under oath was
to the effect that I did not talk to Mr. Nixon, to Mr.
Haldeman, to Mr. Ehrlichman or to any of the people at the
White House.
I said I had no recollection whatsoever of
talking with any of the White House legislative liaison
people.
I indicated under oath that the initiative that
I took at the request of the ranking Members of the House
Banking and Currency Committee on the Republican side,
which was a legitimate request and a proper response by
me.
Now, that was gone into by two congressional
committees and following that investigation both committees
overwhelmingly approved me and both the House and Senate
did likewise. In the meantime, the Special Prosecutor --
within the last few days after an investigation -- himself
said there was no reason for him to get involved because
he found nothing that would justify it.
Then, just a day or two ago, the Attorney General
of the United States made a further investigation and came
to precisely the same conclusion.
Now, after all of those investigations by
objective, responsible people, I think the matter is
closed once and for all.
MORE
Page 9
But, to add one other feature, I don't have
control of the tapes. Those tapes are in the jurisdiction
of the courts, and I have no right to say yes or no, but
all of the committees, the Attorney General, the Special
Prosecutor -- all of them have given me a clean bill of
health and I think the matter is settled once and for all.
MR. NELSON: Well, Mr. President, if I do say
so, the question is that I think you still have not gone
into details about what your role in it was, and I don't
think there was any question about whether or not there
was a criminal prosecution, but whether you have told
the American people your entire involvement in and whether
you would be willing -- even though you don't control the
tapes -- whether you would be willing to ask that the tape
be released for examination?
THE PRESIDENT: That is for the proper authorities
who have control over those tapes to make that decision.
I have given every bit of evidence, answered every question
that has been asked me by any Senator or any Member of the
House, plus the fact that the Special Prosecutor, on his
own initiation, and the Attorney General, on his
initiation -- the highest law enforcement official in this
country -- all of them have given me a clean bill of
health. I have told everything I know about it, and I
think the matter is settled once and for all.
THE MODERATOR: Governor Carter, your response.
MR. CARTER: I don't have any response.
THE MODERATOR: Thank you.
We will have the next question from Mr. Kraft
to Governor Carter.
MR. KRAFT: Governor Carter, the next big
crisis spot in the world may be Yugoslavia. President
Tito is old and sick and there are divisions in his country.
It is pretty certain that the Russians are going to do
everyting they possibly can after Tito dies to force
Yugoslavia back into the Soviet camp.
But, last Saturday, you said -- and this is
a quote -- "I would not go to war in Yugoslavia even if
the Soviet Union sent in troops." Doesn't that statement
practically invite the Russians to intervene in
Yugoslavia? Doesn't it discourage Yugoslavs who might
be tempted to resist, and wouldn't it have been wiser
on your part to say nothing and to keep the Russians in
the dark, as President Ford did, and as I think every
President has done since President Truman?
MORE
Page 10
MR. CARTER: In the last two weeks I have had a
chance to talk to two men who have visited the Soviet
Union, Yugoslavia and China. One is Governor Averill
Harriman, who visited the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.
The other one is James Schlesinger, whom I think you
accompanied to China.
I got a complete report back from those countries
from these two distinguished gentlemen.
Mr. Harriman talked to the leaders in Yugo-
slavia and I think it is accurate to say there is no
prospect, in their opinion, of the Soviet Union invading
Yugoslavia should Mr. Tito pass away. The present
leadership there is fairly uniform in their purpose. I
think it is a close-knit group, and I think it would be
unwise for us to say we will go to war in Yugoslavia
if the Soviets should invade, which I think would be an
extremely unlikely thing.
I have maintained from the very beginning of
my campaign -- and this was a standard answer that "I
made in response to the Yugoslavian question -- that I
would never go to war, become militarily involved in
internal affairs of another country unless 'our own
security was directly threatened.
I don't believe that irsecurity would be
directly threatened if the Soviet Union went into Yugo-
slvvia. I don't believe it will happen. I certainly
hope it won't. I would take the strongest possible
measures short of actual military action there by our own
troops, but I doubt that that would be an eventuality.
MORE
Page 11
THE PRESIDENT: I firmly believe, Mr. Kraft,
it is unwise for a President to signal in advance what
options he might exercise if any international problem
arose.
I think we all recall with some sadness that in
the period of the late 1940s, early 1950s, there were some
indications that the United States would not include
South Korea in an area of defense. There are some who
allege -- I can't prove it is true or untrue -- that such
a statement in effect invited the North Koreans to invade
South Korea. It is a fact they did.
But no President of the United States, in my
opinion, should signal in advance to a prospective enemy
what his decision might be or what option he might
exercise. It is far better for a person sitting in the
White House, who has a number of options, to make certain
that the other side, so to speak, doesn't know precisely
what you are going to do.
Therefore, that was the reason that I would
not identify any particular course of action when I
responded to a question a week or so ago.
THE MODERATOR: Thank you.
Mr. Maynard, your question to President Ford,
please?
MR. MAYNARD: Sir, this question concerns your
administrative performance as President. The other day
General George Brown, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs
of Staff, delivered his views on several sensitive
subjects, among them that Great Britain is one of this
country's oldest allies. He said, and I quote him now,
"Great Britain, it is a pathetic thing, it just makes
you cry. They are no longer a world power. All they
have are generals, admirals and bands."
Since General Brown's comments have caused this
country embarrassment in the past, why is he still this
Nation's leading military officer?
THE PRESIDENT: I have indicated to General
Brown that the words that he used in that interview in
that particular case and in several others were very ill-
advised. And General Brown has indicated his apology,
his regrets, and I think that will, in this situation,
settle the matter.
It is tragic that the full transcript of that
interview was not released and that there were excerpts --
some of the excerpts taken out of context -- not this one,
however, that you bring up.
MORE
Page 12
General Brown has an exemplary record of military
performance. He served this Nation with great, great
skill and courage and bravery for 35 years. And I
think it is the consensus of the people who are knowledgeable
in the military field that he is probably the outstanding
military leader and strategist that we have in America
today.
Now he did use ill-advised words, but I think
in the fact that he apologized, that he was reprimanded,
does permit him to stay on and continue that kind of
leadership that we so badly need as we enter into
negotiations under the SALT II agreement. Or if we
have operations that might be developing in the Middle
East or in Southern Africa or in the Pacific, we need
a man with that experience, that knowledge, that know-how,
and I think in light of the fact that he has apologized
it would not have justified my asking for his resignation.
THE MODERATOR: Thank you.
Governor Carter, your response?
MR. CARTER: Well, just briefly, I think this
is the second time that General Brown has made a statement
for which he did have to apologize, and I know everybody
makes mistakes.
I think the first one was related to the
unwarranted influence of American Jews on the media, and:
in the Congress. This one concerned Great Britain. I
think he said Israel was a military burden on us and
that Iran hoped to reestablish the Persian Empire.
I am not sure that I remembered earlier that
President Ford expressed concern about the statement or
apologized for it. This is something, though, that I
think is indicative of a need among the American people
to know how the Commander-in-Chief, the President, feels.
The only criticism that I would have of Mr. Ford
is that, immediately when the statement was revealed,
perhaps a statement from the President would have been
a clarifying and very beneficial thing.
THE MODERATOR: Mr. Nelson, your question now
to Governor Carter.
MR. NELSON: Despite the fact that you have
been running for President a long time now, many Americans
are still seeming to be uneasy about you. They don't
feel that they know you or the people around you. One
problem seems to be that you haven't tried to bring
people with broad backgrounds and national experience
into your campaign or your Presidential plans. Most of
the people around you on a day-to-day basis are the people
you have known in Georgia. Many of them are young and
relatively inexperienced in national affairs.
MORE
Page 13
Doesn't this raise a serious question as to
whether you would bring into a Carter Administration
people with the necessary background to run the Federal
Government?
MR. CARTER: I don't believe it does. I began
campaigning 22 months ago. At that time, nobody thought
I had a chance to win. Very few people knew who I was.
I came from a tiny town, as you know -- Plains -- and didn't
hold public office and didn't have very much money. My
first organization was just four or five people plus my
wife and my children, my three sons and their wives.
We won the nomination by going out into the
streets, barbershops, beauty parlors, restaurants, stores,
and in factory shift lines, and also in farmers' markets
and livestock sale barns, and we talked a lot and we
listened a lot, and we learned from the American people.
We built up an awareness among the voters
of this country, particularly those in whose primaries
I entered -- 30 of them, nobody has ever done that before --
about who I was and what I stood for.
Now, we have a very wide ranging group of
advisers who helped me prepare for these debates and
who teach me about international economics and foreign
affairs, defense matters, health, education, welfare,
Government reorganization -- I would say several hundred
of them, and they are very fine and very highly qualified.
The one major decision that I have made since
acquiring the nomination -- and I share this with President
Ford -- is the choice of the Vice President. I think this
would be indicative of the kind of leaders that I would
choose to help me if I am elected.
I chose Senator Walter Mondale. And the only
criterion that I have put forward in my own mind was who
among the several million people in this country would
be the best person qualified to be President if something
should happen to me, and to join me in being Vice
President if I should serve out my term. And I am
convinced now more than I was when I got the nomination
that Walter Mondale was the right choice, and I believe
this is a good indication of the kind of people that I
would choose in the future.
Mr. Ford has had that same choice to make. I
don't want to say anything critical of Senator Dole, but
I have never heard Mr. Ford say that was his primary
consideration -- who is the best person I could choose
in this country to be President of the United States.
I feel completely at ease knowing that some
day Senator Mondale might very well be President. Of the
last five Vice Presidential nominees, incumbents, three
of them have become President. But I think this is
indicative of what I would do.
THE MODERATOR: President Ford, your response,
please?
MORE
Page 14
THE PRESIDENT: The Governor may not have heard
my established criteria for the selection of a Vice
President, but it was a well-established criteria that the
person I selected would be fully qualified to be President
of the United States. Senator Bob Dole is so qualified:
16 years in the House of Representatives and in the Senate,
very high responsibilities on important committees.
I don't mean to be critical of Senator Mondale,
but I was very, very surprised when I read that Senator
Mondale made a very derogatory, very personal comment
about General Brown after the news story that broke about
General Brown.
If my recollection is correct, he indicated
that General Brown was not qualified to be a sewer
commissioner. I don't think that is a proper way to
describe a chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who has
fought for his country for 35 years. I am sure the
Governor would agree with me on that.
I think Senator Dole would show more good judg-
ment and discretion than to so describe heroic and brave
and very outstanding leaders of the military.
So, I think our selection of Bob Dole as Vice
President is based on merit, and if he should ever
become the President of the United States, with his
vast experience as a Member of the House and a Member of
the Senate, as well as a Vice President, I think he would
do an outstanding job as President of the United States.
THE MODERATOR: Mr. Kraft, your question to
President Ford.
MR. KRAFT: Mr. President, let me assure you
and maybe some of the viewing audience that being on this
panel hasn't been, as it may seem, all torture and agony.
One of the heartening things is that I and my colleagues
have received literally hundreds and maybe even thousands
of suggested questions from ordinary citizens all across
the country who want answers.
THE PRESIDENT: That is a tribute to their interest
in this election.
MR. KRAFT: I will give you that. But, let me
go on because one main subject on the minds of all of them
has been the environment, particularly curious about your
record. People really want to know why you vetoed the
stripminingbill. They want to know why you worked against
strong controls on auto emissions. They want to know why
you aren't doing anything about pollution of the Atlantic
Ocean. They want to know why a bipartisan organization
such as the National League of Conservation Voters says
that when it comes to environmental issues, you are --
and I am quoting -- "hopeless."
MORE
Page 15
THE PRESIDENT: First, let me set the record
straight. I vetoed the stripmining_bill, Mr. Kraft,
because it was the overwhelming consensus of knowledge-
able people that that stripmining bill would have meant
the loss of literally thousands of jobs, something
around 140,000 jobs.
Number two, that stripmining bill would have
severely set back our need for more coal, and Governor
Carter has said repeatedly that coal is the resource that
we need to use more in the effort to become independent
of the Arab oil supplies.
So, I vetoed it because of a loss of jobs and
because it would have interfered with our energy
independence program.
The auto emissions -- itwas agreed by Leonard
Woodcock, the head of the UAW, and by the heads of all of
the automobile industry -- we had labor and management
together saying that those auto emission standards had
to be modified.
But, let's talk about what the Ford Adminis-
tration has done in the field of environment. I have
increased, as President, by over 60 percent the
funding for water treatment plants in the United States,
the Federal contribution. I have fully funded the land
and water conservation program; in fact, have recommended--
and the Congress approved--a substantially increased land
and water conservation program.
I have added in the current year budget the
funds for the National Park Service. For example, we
proposed about $12 million to add between 400 and 500
more employees for the National Park Service.
A month or so ago I did likewise say over the
next ten years we should expand--double--the wild wilderness
areas, the scenic river areas and then, of course, the
final thing is that I have signed and approved of more
scenic rivers, more wilderness areas since I have been
President than any other President in the history of the
United States.
THE MODERATOR: Governor Carter?
MR. CARTER: Well, I might say I think the
League of Conservation Voters is absolutely right. This
Administration's record of environment is very bad.
I think it is accurate to say that the strip
mining law which was passed twice by the Congress and
was only two or three votes of being overriden would have
been good for the country. The claim that it would have put
140,000 miners out of work is hard to believe when at the
time Mr. Ford vetoed it, the United Mine Workers was
supporting the bill. I don't think they would have
supported the bill had they known that they would lose
140,000 jobs.
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There has been a consistent policy on the part
of this Administration to lower or to delay enforcement
of air pollution standards and water pollution standards.
Under both PresidentsNixor and Ford, monies have been
impounded that would have gone to cities and others to
control water pollution.
We have no energy policy. I think we are the
only developed nation in the world that has no compre-
hensive energy policy to permit us to plan in an orderly
way how to shift from increasing the scarce energy
forms -- oil -- and have research and development concen-
trated on the increased use of coal, which I strongly favor,
the research and development to be used primarily to make
the coal burning be clean.
We need a heritage trust program similar to the
one we had in Georgia to set aside additional lands that
have geological and archeological importance, natural
lands for enjoyment.
The lands that Mr. Ford bragged about having
approved are in Alaska, and three are enormous in size,
but as far as the accessiblity of them by the American
people is far in the future.
We have taken no strong position in the control
of pollution of our oceans, and I would say the worst
threat to the environment of all is nuclear proliferation.
This Administration, having been in office now for two
years or more, has still not taken a strong and bold
action to stop the proliferation of nuclear waste around
the world, particularly plutonium.
Those are some brief remarks about the failures
of this Administration. I would do the opposite in every
respect.
THE MODERATOR: Mr. Maynard to Governor Carter.
MR. MAYNARD: Governor, our policy in this country
since World War II has tended to favor the development
of suburbs at the great expense of central cities. Does
not the Federal Government now have an affirmative obligation
to revitalize the American city? We have heard little in
this campaign suggesting that you have an urban recon-
struction program. Could you please outline your urban
intentions for us tonight?
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MR. CARTER: I would be glad to. In the first
place, as is the case with the environmental policy and
energy policy that I just described and the policy for
nonproliferation of nuclear waste, this Administration has
no urban policy. It is impossible for mayors or Governors
to cooperate with the President because they can't anti-
cipate what is going to happen next.
A mayor of a city like New York, for example,
needs to know 18 months or two years ahead of time what
responsibility the city will have in administration and
in financing and in things like housing, pollution control,
crime control, education, welfare and health.
This has not been done, unfortunately. I remember
the headline in the Daily News that said, "Ford To New
York --- Drop Dead. :7
I think it is very important that our cities
know that they have a partner in the Federal Government.
Quite often, Congress has passed laws in the past
designed to help people with the ownership of homes and
with the control of crime and with adequate health care
and better education programs and so forth. Those programs
were designed to help those who need it most, and quite
often this has been in the very poor people and neighborhoods
in the downtown urban centers.
Because of the greatly advantaged persons who
live in the suburbs -- better education, better organization,
more articulate, more aware of what the laws are -- quite
often this money has been channeled out of the downtown
centers where it is needed.
I also favor all revenue sharing money being
used for local Governments and also to remove the pro-
hibitions in the use of revenue sharing money so that can
be used to improve education, and health care. We have now,
for instance, only 7 percent of the total education
costs being financed by the Federal Government. When the
Nixon-Ford Administration started, this was 10 percent.
That is a 30 percent reduction in the portion that the
Federal Government contributes to education in just
eight years and, as you know, the education costs have
gone up tremendously.
The last point is that the major thrust has
got to be to put people back to work. We have got an
extraordinarily high unemployment rate among downtown
urban ghetto areas. Particularly among the very poor
and particularly among minority groups our estimates
are 50 or 60 percent.
The concentration of employment opportunities
in those areas would help greatly not only to re-establish
the tax base but also to help reduce the extraordinary
welfare costs. One of the major responsibilities on the
shoulders of New York City is to finance welfare, and I
favor the shifting of the welfare cost away from the
local Governments altogether and over a longer period of
time let the Federal Government begin to absorb the part of
it that is now paid by the State Government. Those things
would help a great deal with the cities, but we still have
a very serious problem there.
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THE MODERATOR: President Ford?
THE PRESIDENT: Let me speak out very strongly.
The Ford Administration does have a very comprehensive
program to help our major metropolitan areas. I fought
for, and the Congress finally went along with, a general
revenue sharing program whereby cities and States -- the
cities two-thirds and the States one-third -- get over
$6 billion a year in cash with which they can provide
many, many services, whatever they really want.
In addition, we in the Federal Government
make available to cities about $3 billion 300 million
in what we call community development. In addition, as
a result of my pressure on the Congress, we got a major
mass transit program over a four-year period -- $11 billion
800 million. We have a good housing program that will
result in cutting the down payments by 50 percent and
having mortgage payments lower at the beginning of
any mortgage period. We are expanding our homestead
housing program.
The net result is, we think, under Carla Hills,
who is the Chairman of my Urban Development and Neighborhood
Revitalization Program, we will really do a first class
job in helping the communities throughout the country.
As a matter of fact, that committee, under Secretary
Hills, released about a 75-page report with specific
recommendations so we can do a better job in the weeks
ahead.
In addition, the tax program of the Ford
Administration, which provides an incentive for industry
to move into our major metropolitan areas, into the
inner cities, will bring jobs where people are and help
to revitalize those cities as they can be.
THE MODERATOR: Mr. Nelson, your next question
to President Ford?
MR. NELSON: Mr. President, your campaign has
run ads in black newspapers saying that for black
Americans President Ford is quietly getting the job done.
Study after study has shown little progress in desegregation
and, in fact, actual increases in segregated schools
and housing in the Northeast.
Now civil rights groups have complained
repeatedly that there has been a lack of progress in
commitment to an integrated society during your Administra-
tion.
How are you going to get the job done for
blacks and other minorities, and what programs do you
have in mind for the next four years?
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Page 19
THE PRESIDENT: Let me say at the outset, I am
very proud of the record of this Administration. In the
Cabinet, I have one of the outstanding, I think,
administrators as the Secretary of Transportation -- Bill
Coleman. You are familiar, I am sure, with the recognition
given in the Air Force to General James. And there
was just approved a three-star Admiral, the first in
the history of the United States Navy. So, we are
giving full recognition to individuals of quality in
the Ford Administration in positions of great responsibility.
In addition, the Department of Justice is
fully enforcing, and enforcing effectively, the Voting
Rights Act, the legislation that involves jobs, housing,
for minorities, not only blacks but all others.
The Department of HUD is enforcing the new
legislation that takes care of red lining. What we
are doing is saying that there are opportunities --
business opportunities, education opportunities,
responsibilities -- where people with talent -- blacks
or any other minority -- can fully qualify.
The Office of Minority Business in the Department
of Commerce has made available more money in trying to
help black businessmen, or other minority businessmen,
than any other administration since the office was
established.
The Office of Small Business, under
Mr. Kobelinski, has a very massive program trying to
help the black community. The individual who wants
to start a business or expand his business as a black
businessman is able to borrow either directly or with
guaranteed loans.
I believe on the record that this Administration
has been responsive and that we have carried out the
law to the letter, and I am proud of the record.
THE MODERATOR: Governor Carter, your response,
please?
MR. CARTER: The description just made of this
Administration's record is hard to recognize. I think
it is accurate to say that Mr. Ford voted against the
Voting Rights Act and against the Civil Rights Act in
the debative stage. Once it was assured they would pass,
then he finally voted for it.
This country changed drastically in 1969 when
the terms of John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson were over,
and Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford became the President.
That was a time when there was hope for those who were
poor and down-trodden and who were elderly or who were
ill or who were in minority groups. That time has been
gone.
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Page 20
I think the greatest thing that ever happened
to the South was the passage of the Civil Rights Act and
the opening up of opportunities to black people, to
have a chance to vote, to hold a job, to buy a house,
to go to school, and to participate in public affairs --
and it not only liberated black people but it also liberated
the whites.
We have seen in many instances in recent years
a minority affairs section of a small loan administration,
Small Business Administration, lend a black entrepreneur
just enough money to get started, and then to go bankrupt.
The bankruptcies have gone up an extraordinary degree.
The FHA, which used to be a very responsible
agency which everyone looked to to own a home, lost
$600 million last year. There have been over 1,300 indict-
ments in HUD, over 800 convictions relating to just home
loans, and now the Federal Government has become the
world's greatest slum landlord.
We have got a 30 percent or 40 percent
unemployment rate among minority young people. And there
has been no concerted effort given to the needs of those
who are both poor and black or poor and who speak a foreign
language, and that is where there has been a great
generation of despair and ill-health and lack of
education and lack of purposefulness and lack of hope
for the future.
But it doesn't take just a quiet, dormant,
minimum enforcement of the law. It requires an aggressive
searching out and reaching out to help people who
especially need it, and that has been lacking in the
last eight years.
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THE MODERATOR: Mr. Kraft, to Governor Carter.
MR. KRAFT: Governor Carter, in the nearly
200-year history of the Constitution, there have been only,
I think it is, 25 amendments, most of them on issues
of the very broadest principle. Now we have proposed
amendments in many highly specialized causes like gun
control, school busing, balanced budget, school prayer,
abortion, things like that. Do you think it is appropriate
to the dignity of the Constitution to take on amendments
in a wholesale fashion, and which of the ones I listed,
that is, balanced budget, school busing, school prayer,
abortion, gun control, which of those would you really
work hard to support if you were President.
MR. CARTER: I would not work hard to support
any of those. We have always had, I think, a lot of
Constitutional amendments proposed but the passage of them
has been fairly slow and few and far between. In the
200-year history, there has been a very cautious approach
to this. Quite often we have a transient problem. I am
strongly against abortion. I think abortion is wrong. I
don't think the Government ought to do anything to encourage
abortion, but I don't favor a Constitutional amendment on
the subject. But short of a Constitutional amendment, and
within the confines of a Supreme Court ruling, I will do
everything I can to minimize the need for abortion -- better
sex education, family planning, better adoptive procedures.
I personally don't believe the Foderal Government ought to
finance abortions but I draw the line and don't support a
Constitutional amendment. However, I honor the rights of
people to seek Constivutional amendment on school busing,
on prayer in the schools, and on abortion, but of those
you named, I won't actively work for the passage of any
of them.
THE MODERATOR: President Ford, your response
please.
THE PRESIDENT: I support the Republican platform
which calls for a Constitutional amendment that would
outlaw abortions. I favor the particular Constitutional
amendment that would turn over to the States the individual
right of the voters in those States the chance to make a
decision by public referendum. I call that the peoples'
amendment. I think if you really believe that the people
of a State ought to make a decision on a matter of this
kind that we ought to have a Federal Constitutional amend-
ment that would permit each one of the 50 States to make
the choice.
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Page 22
I think this is a responsible and a proper way
to proceed. I believe also that there is some merit
to an amendment that Senator Everett Dirksen proposed
very frequently, an amendment that would change the court
decision as far as voluntary prayer in public schools.
It seems to me that there should be an opportunity as long
as it is voluntary, as long as there is no compulsion
whatsoever that an individual ought to have that right.
So in those two cases I think such a Constitutional
amendment would be proper and I really don't think in either
case they are trivial matters. I think they are matters
of very deep conviction as far as many, many people in this
country believe and therefore they shouldn't be treated
lightly but they are matters that are important and in
those two cases I would favor them.
THE MODERATOR: Mr. Maynard to President Ford.
MR. MAYNARD: Mr. President, twice you have
been the intended victim of would-be assassins using hand
guns, yet you remain a steadfast opponent of substantive
hand gun control. There are now some 40 million hand guns
in this country going up at the rate of 2.5 million a year,
and tragically those hand guns are frequently purchased
for self protection and wind up being used against a rela-
tive or a friend. In light of that, why do you remain so
adamant in your opposition to substantive gun control in
this country?
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Maynard, the record of gun
control, whether it is in one city or another or in some
States does not show that the registration of a gun, hand
gun, or the registration of the gun owner has in any way
whatsoever decreased the crime rate or the use of that gun
in the committing of a crime. The record just doesn't
prove that such legislation or action by a local city
council is effective.
What we have to do -- and this is the crux of
the matter -- is to make it very, very difficult for a
person who uses a gun in the commission of a crime to stay
out of jail. If we make the use of a gun in the commission
of a crime a serious criminal offense and that person is
prosecuted, then in my opinion we are going after the person
who uses the gun for the wrong reason. I don't believe in
the registration of hand guns or the registration of the
hand gun owner. That has not proven to be effective. And
therefore I think the better way is to go after the criminal,
the individual who commits a crime in the possession of a
gun and uses that gun for a part of his criminal activity.
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Those are the people who ought to be in jail
and the only way to do it is to pass strong legislation so
that once apprehended, indicted, convicted, they will be
in jail and off the streets and not using guns in the
commission of a crime.
MR. MAYNARD: But, Mr. President, don't you
think that the proliferation of the availability of hand
guns contributes to the possibilities of those crimes
being committed, and there is a second part to my follow-
up very quickly. There are, as you know and as you have
said, jurisdictions around the country with strong gun
control laws. The police officials in those cities contend
that if there were a national law to prevent other juris-
dictions from providing the weapons that then come into
places like New York, that they might have a better handle
on the problem. Have you considered that in your analysis
of the hand gun proliferation problem?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I have, and the individuals
with whom I have consulted have not convinced me that a
national registration of hand guns or hand gun owners
will solve the problem you are talking about. The person
who wants to use a gun for an illegal purpose can get it
whether it is registered or outlawed. They will be obtained
and they are the people who ought to go behind bars.
You should not, in the process, penalize the
legitimate hand gun owner, and when you go through the
process of registration, you in effect are penalizing
that individual who uses his gun for a very legitimate
purpose.
THE MODERATOR: Governor Carter.
MR. CARTER: I think it is accurate to say that
Mr. Ford's position on gun control has changed. Earlier
Mr. Levi, his Attorney General, put forward a gun control
proposal which Mr. Ford later, I believe, espoused that
called for the prohibition against the sale of the so-called
Saturday Night Specials. It would have put very strict
control over who owned a hand gun.
I have been a hunter all my life and happen to
own both shotguns, rifles and a hand gun, and the only
purpose that I would see in registering hand guns and not
long guns of any kind would be to prohibit the ownership
of the ownership of those guns by those who have used them
in the commission of a crime or who have been proven
mentally incompetent to own a gun.
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Page 24
I believe that limited approach to the question
would be advisable and I think adequate but that is as
far as I would go with it.
THE MODERATOR: Mr. Nelson to Governor Carter.
MR. NELSON: Governor, you said the Supreme
Court today is, as you put it, moving back in the proper
direction in a ruling that has limited the rights of
criminal defendants and you have compared the present Supreme
Court under Chief Justice Burger very favorably with the
more liberal court we had under Chief Justice Warren.
Exactly what are you getting at, and can you tell us the
kind of qualifications and philosophy you would look for
as President in making Supreme Court appointments?
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Page 25
MR. CARTER: While I was Governor of Georgia,
although I am not a lawyer, we had complete reform of
the Georgia court system. We streamlined the structure
of the courts, put in an administrative office, put in a
unified court system and required that all severe
sentences be reviewed for uniformity and, in addition
to that, put forward a proposal that was adopted and
used throughout my own term of office -- selection
of all judges and district attorneys and prosecuting
attorneys on the basis of merit.
Every time I had a vacancy on the Georgia
Supreme Court -- and I filled five of those vacancies
out of seven total, and about half of the Court of
Appeals judges and about 35 percent of the trial judges --
I was given from an objective panel the five most highly
qualified persons in Georgia, and from those five I
always chose the first or second one. So, merit
selection of judges is the most important single
criterion. And I would institute the same kind of
procedure as President, not only in judicial appointments
but also in diplomatic appointments.
Secondly, I think the Burger Court has fairly
well-confirmed the major and most far-reaching and most
controversial decisions of the Warren Court. Civil
rights has been confirmed by the Burger Court. It hasn't
been reversed, and I don't think there is any inclination
to reverse the basic decision of the one man-one vote
rule, which is a very important one that struck down
the unwarranted influence in the legislature of the
most sparsely populated areas of the States.
The right of indigent or very poor accused
persons to legal counsel--I think the Burger Court has
confirmed that very basic and very controversial decision
of the Warren Court. Also, the protection of an arrested
person against unwarranted persecution in trying to get
a false confession.
But now I think there have been a couple of
instances where the Burger Court has made technical
rulings where an obviously guilty person was later found
to be guilty, and I think in that case some of the more
liberal members of the so-called Warren Court agreed
with those decisions.
But the only thing that I have pointed out was
what I have just said, and that there was a need to clarify
the technicalities so you couldn't be forced to release
a person obviously guilty just because of a small
technicality in the law. That is a reversal of position
by the Burger Court with which I do agree.
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Page 26
MR. NELSON: Governor, I don't believe you
answered my question, though, about the kind of people
you would be looking for for the court, the type of
philosophy you would be looking for if you were making
appointments to the Supreme Court as President.
MR. CARTER: I thought I answered it by saying
it would be on the basis of merit. Once the search
and analysis procedure had been completed, and once
I am given a list of five or seven or ten best qualified
persons in the country, I would make a selection from
among those persons. If the list was in my opinion
fairly uniform, if there was no outstanding person, I
would undoubtedly choose someone who would most accurately
reflect my own basic political philosophy, as best as I
could determine it, which would be to continue the progress
that has been made under the last two courts -- the
Warren Court and the Burger Court.
I would also like to completely revise our
criminal justice system to do some of the things at the
Federal level and court reform as I just described, as
has been done in Georgia and other States. And I would
like to appoint people who would be interested in helping
with that. I know Chief Justice Burger is. He hasn't
had help yet from the Administration and from the Congress
to carry this out.
The emphasis, I think, of the court system
should be to interpret the Constitution and the laws,
equally between property protection and personal
protection. But when there is a very narrow decision --
which quite often there is one that reaches the Supreme
Court -- I think the choice should be with human rights,
and that would be another factor that I would follow.
THE MODERATOR: President Ford?
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Page 27
THE PRESIDENT: I think the answer as to the kind
of person I would select is obvious. I had one opportunity
to nominate an individual to the Supreme Court, and I
selected the Circuit Court of Appeals Judge from Illinois,
John Paul Stevens.
I selected him because of his outstanding
record as a Circuit Court of Appeals judge, and I was
very pleased that an overwhelmingly Democratic United
Senates, after going into his background, came to the con-
clusion that hewas fit and should serve and the vote
in his behalf was overwhelming.
So, I would say somebody in the format of Justice
Stevens would be the kind of individual I would select
in the future, as I did him in the past.
I believe, however, a comment ought to be
made about the direction of the Burger court vis-a-vis
the court that preceded it. It seems to me that the
Miranda case was a case that really made it very, very
difficult for police, the law enforcement people in this
country, to do what they could to make certain that the
victim of a crime was protected and that those that
commit crimes were properly handled and sent to jail.
The Miranda case the Burger court is
gradually changing, and I am pleased to see that there
are some steps being made by the Burger court to modify
the so-called Miranda decision.
I might make a correction of what Governor
Carter said, speaking of gun control. Yes, it is true, I
believe that the sale of Saturday night specials should
be cut out but he wants the registration of handguns.
THE MODERATOR: Mr. Kraft?
MR. KRAFT: Mr. President, the country is now in
something that your advisers call an economic pause. I
think to most Americans that sounds like an antiseptic
term for low growth, unemployment, standstill at a high
level, decline in take-home pay, lower factory earnings,
more layoffs.
Isn't that really a rotten record, and doesn't
your Administration bear most of the blame for it?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, Mr. Kraft, I violently
disagree with your assessment and I don't think the
record justifies the conclusion that you come to. Let
me talk about the economic announcements that were made
just this past week.
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Page 28
Yes, it was announced that the GNP real growth
in the third quarter was at 4 percent. But, do you realize
that over the last ten years that is a higher figure than
the average growth during that ten-year period.
Now it is lower than the 9.2 percent growth in
the first quarter and it is lower than the 5 percent
growth in the second quarter. But, every economist --
liberal, conservative -- that I am familiar with,
recognizes that in the fourth quarter of this year and in
the first quarter of next year that we will have an
increase in real GNP.
But now let's talk about the plusses that
came out this week. We had an 18 percent increase in
housing starts. We had a substantial increase in new
permits for housing. As a matter of fact, based on the
announcement this week, there will be at an annual
rate .1 million 800-some thousand new houses built,
which is a tremendous increase over last year and a sub-
stantial increase over the earlier part of this year.
Now, in addition, we had some very good news
in the reduction of the rate of inflation, and inflation
hits everybody -- those who are working and those who are
on welfare. The rate of inflation, as announced just
the other day, is under 5 percent, and the 4.4 percent
that was indicated at the time of the 4 percent GNP
was less than the 5.4 percent. It means that the American
buyer is getting a better bargain today because inflation
is less.
MR. KRAFT: Mr. President, let me ask you this:
There has been an increase in layoffs, and that.is some-
thing that bothers everybody because even people that have
a job are afraid they are going to be fired. Did you
predict that increase in layoffs? Didn't that take you
by surprise? Hasn't your Administration been surprised
by this pause? In fact, haven't you been so obsessed
with saving money that you didn't even push the Government to
spend funds that were allocated?
THE PRESIDENT: Mr. Kraft, I think the record
can be put in this way, which is the way that I think
satisfies most Americans: Since the depths of the
recession, we have added four million jobs. Most
importantly, consumer confidence as surveyed by the
reputable organization at the University of Michigan
is at the highest since 1972.
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Page 29
In other words, there is a growing public
confidence in the strength of this economy and that
means that there will be more industrial activity. It
means that there will be a reduction in the unemployment.
It means that there will be increased hires. It means
that there will be increased employment.
Now we have had this pause but most economists,
regardless of their political philosophy, indicate
that this pause for a month or two was healthy because we
could not have honestly sustained a 9.2 percent rate of
growth, which we had in the first quarter of this year.
Now, I would like to point out as well that
the United States economic recovery from the recession
of a year ago is well ahead of the economic recovery of
any major free industrial nation in the world today.
We are ahead of all of the Western European countries.
We are ahead of Japan. The United States is leading the
free world out of the recession that was serious a year
and a half ago.
We are going to see unemployment going down,
more jobs available and the rate of inflation going
down, and I think this is a record that the American
people understand and will appreciate.
THE MODERATOR: Governor Carter?
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Page 30
MR. CARTER: Well, with all due respect to
President Ford, I think heought to be ashamed of making
that statement because we have the highest unemployment
rate now than we did at any time between the Great Depression
caused by Herbert Hoover and the time President Ford took
office. We have got 7-1/2 million people out of jobs.
Since he has been in office, 2-1/2 million more American
people have lost their jobs. In the last four months
alone, 500,000 Americans have gone to the unemployment
rolls. In the last month we have had a net loss of 163,000
jobs.
Anybody who says that the inflation rate is in
good shape now ought to talk to the housewives. One of
the overwhelming results I have seen in places is that
people feel they can't plan any more, there is no way to
make a prediction that my family might be able to own a
home or to put my kids through college.
Saving accounts are losing money instead of
gaining money. Inflation is robbing us.
Under the present Administration -- Nixon's and
Ford's -- we have had three times the inflation rate that
we experienced under President Johnson and President Kennedy.
The economic growth is less than half today what it was at
the beginning of this year, and housing starts -- he compares
the housing starts with last year. I don't blame him because
in 1975 we had fewer housing starts in this country, fewer
homes built than any year since 1940. That is 35 years.
We have got a 35 percent unemployment rate in many areas
of this country among construction workers.
Mr. Ford hasn't done anything about it. I think
it shows a callous indifference to families that have
suffered so much. He has vetoed bills passed by Congress
within the Congressional budget guidelines for job opportuni-
ties for 2 million Americans. We will never have a balanced
budget, we will never meet the needs of our people and we
will never control the inflationary spiral as long as we have
7-1/2 or 8 million people out of work who are looking for
jobs. And we have probably got 2-1/2 million more people
who are not looking for jobs any more because they have
given up hope. That is a very serious indictment of this
Administration, probably the worst one of all.
MR. MAYNARD. Governor Carter, you entered this
race against President Ford with a 20 point lead or better
in the polls and now it appears that this campaign is
headed for a photo finish. You have said how difficult it
is to run against a sitting President but Mr. Ford was just
as much an incumbent in July when you were 20 points ahead
as he is now. Can you tell us what caused the evaporation
of that lead, in your opinion?
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Page 31
MR. CARTER: Well, that is not exactly an
accurate description of what happened. When I was that
far ahead it was immediately following the Democratic
Convention and before the Republican Convention. At
that time 25 or 30 percent of the Reagan supporters said
they would not support President Ford, but as occurred at
the end of the Democratic Convention, the Republican
Party unified itself and I think immediately following
the Republican Convention there was about a 10 point spread.
I believe that to be accurate. I had 49 percent and
President Ford had 39 percent.
The polls are good indications of fluctuations,
but they vary widely one from another and the only poll
I have ever followed is the one that, you know, is taken
on Election Day. I was in 30 primaries in the spring and
at first it was obvious I didn't have any standing in the
polls. As a matter of fact, I think when Gallup's ran their
first poll in 1975 they didn't even put my name on the
list. They had 35 people on the list and my name wasn't
there. At the beginning of the year I had about 2 percent.
So the polls to me are interesting but they don't determine
my hopes or my despair.
I campaign among people. I have never depended
on powerful political figures to put me in office. I have
a direct relationship with hundreds of thousands of people
around the country who actively campaign for me. In Georgia
alone, for instance, I got 84 percent of the vote and I
think there were 14 people in addition to myself on the
ballot, and Governor Wallace had been very strong in
Georgia. That is an overwhelming support from my own
people who know me best. And today we have about 500
Georgians at their own expense, just working people, who
believe in me, spread around the country involved in the
political campaign.
So the polls are interesting but I don't know how
to explain the fluctuations. I think a lot of it depends
on current events, sometimes foreign affairs and sometimes
domestic affairs, but I think our support among those who
are crucial to the election has been fairly steady, and
my success in the primary season was, I think, notable
for a newcomer for someone outside of Washington who
never has been a part of the Washington establishment, and
I think that we will have a good result on November 2 for
myself and I hope for the country.
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THE MODERATOR: President Ford, your response?
THE PRESIDENT: I think the increase in the
prospects as far as I am concerned, and the less favorable
prospects for Governor Carter reflect that Governor
Carter is inconsistent in many of the positions that
he takes. He tends to distort on a number of occasions.
Just a moment ago, for example, he was indicating that
in the 1950s, for example, unemployment was very low.
He fails to point out that in the 1950s we were engaged
in the war in Vietnam -- I mean in Korea. We had 3,500,000
young men in the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. That
is not the way to end unemployment or to reduce unemployment.
At the present time, we are at peace. We
have reduced the number of people in the Army, Navy,
Air Force and Marines, from 3,500,000 to 2,100,000. We
are not at war. We have reduced the military manpower
by 1,400,000. If we had that many more people in the
Army, the Navy, the Air Force and Marines, our unemployment
figure would be considerably less.
But this Administration doesn't believe the
way to reduce unemployment is to go to war, or to
increase the number of people in the military. So, you
cannot compare unemployment, as you sought to, at the
present time, with the 1950s, because the then
Administration had people in the military. They were
at war. They were fighting overseas. And this
Administration has reduced the size of the military by
1,400,000. They are in the civilian labor market and
they are not fighting anywhere around the world today.
THE MODERATOR: Thank you, gentlemen.
This will complete our questioning for
this debate. We don't have time for more questions
and full answers.
So, now each candidate will be allowed up to
four minutes for a closing statement, and, at the original
coin toss in Philadelphia a month ago, it was determined
that President Ford would make the first closing statement
tonight.
President Ford?
THE PRESIDENT: For 25 years, I served in the
Congress under five Presidents. I saw them work, I saw
them make very hard decisions. I didn't always agree
with their decisions, whether they were Democratic or
Republican Presidents.
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For the last two years I have been the
President, and I have found from experience that it is
much more difficult to make those decisions than it is
to second guess them.
I became President at the time that the United
States was in a very troubled time. We had inflation of
over 12 percent; we were on the brink of the worst
recession in the last 40 years; we were still deeply
involved in the problems of Vietnam; the American people
had lost faith and trust and confidence in the Presidency
itself. That situation called for me to first put the
United States on a steady course and to keep our keel
well-balanced, because we had to face the difficult
problems that had all of a sudden hit America.
I think most people know that I did not seek
the Presidency, but I am asking for your help and
assistance to be President for the next four years. During
this campaign we have seen a lot of television shows, a
lot of bumper stickers and a great many slogans of
one kind or another, but those are not the things that
count.
What counts is that the United States celebrated
its 200th birthday on July 4. As a result of that
wonderful experience all over the United States, there
is a new spirit in America. The American people are
healed, are working together. The American people
are moving again and moving in the right direction.
We have cut inflation by better than half.
We have come out of the recession, and we are well on
the road to real prosperity in this country. There has
been a restoration of faith and confidence and trust in
the Presidency, because I have been open, candid and
forthright. I have never promised more than I can produce
and I have produced everything that I promised. We are
at peace -- not a single young American is fighting or
dying on any foreign soil tonight. We have peace with
freedom.
I have been proud to be President of the United
States during these very troubled times. I love America
just as all of you love America.
It would be the highest honor for me to have
your support on November 2 and for you to say, "Jerry
Ford, you have done a good job; keep on doing it."
Thank you and good night.
THE MODERATOR: Thank you, President Ford.
Governor Carter?
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MR. CARTER: The major purpose of an election
for President is to choose a leader, someone who can analyze
the depths of feeling in our country, to set a standard
for our people to follow, to inspire people to reach
for greatness and correct our defects and answer
difficulties and to bind ourselves together in a spirit
of unity.
I don't believe the present Administration has
done that. We have been discouraged and we have been
alienated and sometimes embarrassed and sometimes shamed.
Our people are out of work and there is a sense of with-
drawal.
But our country is innately very strong.
Mr. Ford is a good and decent man, but he has been in
office now more than 800 days, approaching almost as long
as John Kennedy was in office. I would like to ask the
American people what has been accomplished. A lot
remains to be done.
My own background is different from his. I
was a school boardmember and a library board member and
served on a hospital authority, and I served in the
State Senate and as Governor and as engineer and as a
farmer and businessman. I believe we require someone
who can work effectively with the Congress and closely
with the people of this country, and who can bring a
new image and a new spirit to Washington.
Our tax structure is a disgrace and needs to
be reformed. I was Governor of Georgia for four years.
We never increased sales taxes or income taxes or property
taxes. As a matter of fact, the year before we went
out of office we gave a $50 million refund to the property
taxpayers of Georgia.
We spend $600 per person in this country, every
man, woman and child, for health care. We still rank 15th
among all of the nations in the world in infant mortality
and our cancer rate is as high as any country in the
world. We don't have good health care. We could have it.
Employment ought to be restored to our people.
We have become almost a welfare state. We spend now 700
percent more on unemployment compensation than we did
eight years ago when the Republicans took over
the White House. Our people want to go back to work.
Our education system can be improved. Secrecy ought to be
stripped away from Government, and a maximum of personal
privacy ought to be maintained.
Our housing programs have gone bad. It used
to be that the average family could own a house, but
now less than a third of our people can afford to buy
their own homes.
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The budget was more grossly out of balance last
year than ever before in the history of our country -- $65
billion -- primarily because our people are not at work.
Inflation is robbing us, as we have already discussed,
and the Government bureaucracy is just a horrible mess.
This doesn't have to be. I don't know all
of the answers. Nobody could. But, I do know that
if the President of the United States and the Congress
of the United States and the people of the United States
said, "I believe our nation is greater than what we are
now, I believe that if we are inspired, if we can achieve
a degree of unity, if we can set our goals high enough
and work toward recognized goals with industry and labor
and agricülture along with Government at all levels, we
can achieve great things.
We might have to do it slowly. There are no
magic answers to it, but I believe together we can make
great progress, we can correct our difficult mistakes
and answer those very tough questions.
I believe in the greatness of our country and I
believe the American people are ready for a change in
Washington. We have been drifting too long. We have been
dormant too long. We have been discouraged too long.
We have not set an example for our own people,
but I believe we can now establish in the White House a
good relationship with Congress, a good relationship with
our people, set very high goals for our country, and
with inspriation and hard work we can achieve great
things and let the worldknow -- that is very important,
but more importantly let the people in our own country
realize -- that we still live in the greatest nation on
earth.
Thank you very much.
THE MODERATOR: Thank you, Governor Carter and
thank you, President Ford. I also would like to thank
the audience and my three colleagues -- Mr, Kraft, Mr.
Maynard and Mr. Nelson, who have been our questioners.
This debate has, of course, been seen by millions
of Americans, and in addition tonight is being broadcast
to 113 nations throughout the world.
This concludes the 1976 Presidential Debates,
a truly remarkable exercise in democracies for this is the
first time in 16 years that the Presidential candidates
have debated. It is the first time ever that an incumbent
President has debated his challenger, and the debate
included the first between the two Vice Presidential
candidates.
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President Ford and Governor Carter, we not only
want to thank you but we commend you for agreeing to come
together to discuss the issues before the American
people.
I have special thanks to the League of Women
Voters for making these events possible and sponsoring
these events. The League of Women Voter's education
fund has tried to provide you with the information that
enables you and me to choose wisely.
The election is now only eleven days off. The
candidates have participated in presenting their views in
three, eighty-minute debates, and now it is up to the
voters and now it is up to you to participate.
The League urges all registered voters to vote
on November 2 for the candidate of your choice.
Now, from Phi Beta Kappa Memorial Hall on the
campus of the College of William and Mary, this is Barbara
Walters wishing you all a good evening.
END
(AT 11:00 P.M. EDT)