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    "label": "August 15, 1974 - Ford, Kissinger, Senators Jackson, Javits, and Ribicoff",
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    "title": "August 15, 1974 - Ford, Kissinger, Senators Jackson, Javits, and Ribicoff",
    "citationUrl": "https://catalog.archives.gov/id/1552751",
    "collections": [
        "Memoranda of Conversations (Nixon and Ford Administrations)",
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    "subjects": [
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        "Jews",
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        "Trade policy"
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    "ocrText": "File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library\nMEMORANDUM\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nWASHINGTON\nSECRET/NODIS\nMEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION\nPARTICIPANTS:\nPresident Gerald Ford\nDr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State and\nAssistant to the President for National\nSecurity Affairs\nMr. William E. Timmons, Assistant to the\nPresident\nLt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant to\nthe President for National Security Affairs\nSenator Henry M. Jackson\nSenator Jacob K. Javits\nSenator Abraham A. Ribicoff\nDATE AND TIME:\nWednesday, August 15, 1974\n8:00 a. m.\nPLACE:\nThe White House\nFirst Floor-Private Dining Room\nPresident: The Trade Bill is a matter of highest priority--not only for\nour own benefit but for all the world.\nNumber two is to get a better handle on Jewish emigration from the\nSoviet Union. As I tried to say on Monday--the House bill. I didn't\nidentify the amendment, but you know what I mean.\nRussell Long is going to campaign. I don't know why. Russell tells me\neverything is going well. If agreement here can be reached he sees\nlittle trouble on the floor.\nE.O. 12958, SEC.\nNSC MEMO, STATE GUIDELINES\nMARA, DATE 3/25/04\nI am familiar with the discussions Dr. Kissinger and Scoop have had on\nDECLARSIFIED\nthe letters. Dobrynin came in yesterday. He had planned to stay in\nthe Soviet Union until September or October. He cut his stay short in\norder to indicate their interest in the continuation of their policy. He\nFORD\nSECRET/NODIS\n&\nBY\nGERALD\nLIBRARY\nTOP SECRET XGDS (3)\nCLASSIFIED BY: HENRY A. KISSINGER\nSECRET/NODIS\n2\nspent most of the time telling us that Brezhnev said that if harassment\nand difficulty with numbers continue, Brezhnev could take personal\nresponsibility with the President. The President could complain\ndirectly to Brezhnev. Remember, Scoop, they previously said we\nhad to bring it to the proper authorities, but never to Brezhnev.\nJackson: I think we are making good progress. The Russians are giving.\nThe reports back from the Soviet Union are that they now consider there\nare 300, 000 wanting to leave. They could handle that in 4-5 years. We\ngot some letter changes last night. We three are in agreement. I want\nto touch base in the Senate, and talk to Meany. He is up tight about it.\nThe labor people are fighting the hill.\nJavits: The Trade Bill. This indicates their hangup.\nJackson: With this in the bill you will get more support from those who\nwill push it for emigration.\nKissinger: In the text of the letter we can't bother the President just\nabout a legal clause. For example, it will cause no trouble with the\nSoviet Union to say \"as frequently happened in the past. 11\nJackson: There are two areas. One is harassment. This is not just\nfor the Jewish emigrants; it's all of the ethnic groups. The others are\ntough, but not well organized. They are hot on this.\nPresident: I know, I have 5, 000 Latvians in my old district.\nJackson: The big problem is harassment. If you apply, you get harassed.\nKissinger: They have specifically said those practices wouldn't take\nplace. They may not keep the agreement, but that is something they have\nspecifically assured us.\nPresident: I can assure you that, if we get an agreement, if there are\nviolations of it, it won't take me 24 hours to cut it off.\nRibicoff: There has been much quiet cooperation among us. We are\nat the last issue-- the 60, 000 figure. Is that realistic?\nKissinger: I am worried. If Jackson's figure is right, it is okay, but\nwe don't know that. They don't want to have to expel people to meet a\nquota. They say the applications are dropping because of the Middle\nEast situation. Would we know if harassment continues?\nSECRET/NODIS\nFORD di LIBRARY GERALD\nSECRET/NODIS\n3\nJackson: Not necessarily. The subtle forms are the toughest. They\nare out to avoid quotas. The scheme is the letter, the response, and\nthe interpretation. Our letter would say emigration would rise\npromptly from what they were.\nKissinger: That we can live with.\nJackson: This avoids your being associated with a quota. We must\nhave the 1973 figures because this year is lower.\nKissinger: If you relate that to the number of applicants, and if there\nis no harassment, it should work if they keep their word.\nJackson: They are moving on security clearances. A cable I have here\nsays they could leave after three years. There is general movement,\nMr. President, which shows that the Soviet Union is in economic trouble.\nWe don't want to push them into a corner.\nMFN is a source of pride to them. The credits are a touchy area\nbecause they don't have anything to sell that doesn't require US capital.\nOil, aluminum. They have hydroelectric power and Kaiser is putting\nup a plant. Forty percent of producing an ingot is power. But it is\nKaiser capital.\nPresident: If good authority for MFN is given, with Presidential authority\nto cut it off for violations with the assurances they and I have given, we\nhave a club to insure performance.\nJackson: Yes, what we would do is leave it hang but with waiver authority.\n[He reads from the draft]. This is enough language. This is also your\nclub with the Soviet Union.\nPresident: Is the House bill a denial of authority?\nJavits: The House language is onerous.\nPresident: Let me propose. The general authority would cover all. Then\na denial could apply to any one country who denied emigration.\nJavits: That's not good either. You don't want to force you or us to\nbreak with the Soviet Union. We shouldn't be put in a place where it has to\nbe proved that there are violations. The renewal obligation makes it\nan affirmative action, not a cut-off.\nSECRET/NODIS\nGERALD\nBRARY\nSECRET/NODIS\n4\nJackson: By this method we would share the burden.\nPresident: Let's see, I make a 12-month report and ask for an extension.\nCongress approves by a majority vote. How do we avoid a bottle-up?\nJackson: We could write in a must vote within so many days. We\nwould grant it--this is a big concession--immediately. The Soviet\nUnion wants MFN immediately and we make this big concession.\nTimmons: It applies to credits also.\nJackson: Everything.\nKissinger: What worries me is this: If Congress has to renew your\nauthority every year, we can have this kind of debate every year.\nJavits: We could write a line that the President has the right to waive\nand then say this will continue for one year.\nPresident: It's acumbersome procedure which is like the one on chrome.\nIf we go this route we would have to have prompt resolution.\nJackson: We would have provisions to insure prompt action.\nKissinger: We can just get by with the letter. The interpretative state-\nments overload the circuit. We have shown them this letter. There\nwas no disagreement, on what the performance must be, but just on\nhow to write it.\nJavits: The interpretive letter is best.\nRibicoff: But Dr. Kissinger has to show it to the Soviet Union.\nKissinger: We have to distinguish between the objective and what we write\ndown.\nJavits: Take the non-proliferation treaty. We issued an interpretation\nabout the French and British nuclear forces and the Soviet Union issued\njust exactly the opposite. Let the Soviet Union say what it wants.\nFORD\n&\nPresident: How will the one-year affect business contracts?\nJavits: Even if we cut it off, contracts made will continue.\nGERALD\nLIBRARY\nPresident: What worries me is that you identify a particular country by this.\nSECRET/NODIS\n5\nJackson: No, just non-market states.\nKissinger: How would it apply to East Europe?\nJackson: It's the same for all of them.\nKissinger: How about Romanians?\nJackson: You would have to seek some assurances. The Romanians\nsay they won't have any problem.\nPresident: Supposing Romania performs and the Soviet Union doesn't.\nHow would we handle that ?\nJackson: We would workthat out.\nJavits: Abe and I talked to Ceausescu and he said it was no problem. I\nthink they stopped because the Soviet Union didn't want them to set bloc\npolicy. The PRC isn't yet an issue.\nKissinger: Because they want to keep MFN from the Soviet Union.\nScoop has a great future in the PRC.\nJackson: They say the threat will come through Europe. Chou wants\nto talk to Mansfield on this.\nJavits: The complaint in the Jewish community is that the Soviet Union\nhas cut the rate and they should restore the rate before we move to show\ngood faith. I said no. The same on the high visibility trials. They\nalso fear numbers, as a possible quota. I don't buy this because with\nartful language we can make it okay.\nJackson: We don't want a bilateral agreement between West Germany\nand the Soviet Union to affect this. This argument is for about 1000\na month. We wouldn't want any other agreements to count against\nthis quota.\nPresident: I am worried about the language. I would prefer blanket auth-\nority with a right to cut off.\nLet's get the technicians together and see if we can't work it out.\nJackson: This is so designed that Congress has to retain some authority.\nFUND\na\nSECRET/NODIS\nGERALD\nLIBRARY\nSECRET/NODIS\n6\nJavits: I think I can work something out on a waiver if he [Kissinger]\nbelieves it is viable to keep the Jackson Amendment with some\npositive or negative waiver. We need to try this.\nKissinger: How about a waiver subject to Congressional veto? It is\nthe affirmative vote that worries me.\nJackson: Let's go back and work more- We are determined. I am\na strong supporter of the trade bill. We are getting strong pressures\nfrom pressure groups.\nTimmons: I have three points I would like to make quickly. On the\nother ethnic groups, how does this apply?\nRenewal--how would it be done? And what do we say to the press?\nPresident: That it was a very constructive meeting. Momentum is now\nunder way for one of the most important pieces of legislation on the\ncalendar.\nJackson: We will praise the President for constructive efforts for a\nsolution. But don't say it is settled. We don't want to let the Soviet\nUnion think we capitulated.\nJavits: Also, we are determined, if it is humanly possible, to have a\ntrade bill.\nJackson: You and Abe cover that.\nRibicoff: You are in a great position here with the change of President.\nWe will have no problem knowing about harassment. The most important\nthing is numbers. Once we have established that, and the exchange of\nletters, I am not worried.\nOn ce we know that harassment is ending and people are leaving, we\nare in good shape. They should go ahead with mark-up and amend\non the floor to add the waiver.\nKissinger: If I may summarize, the three Senators are saying that if we\nkeep the Jackson Amendment, they can be flexible on waiver authority.\nLet us look at this.\nSECRET/NODIS\nFORD\n&\nGERALD\nLIBRARY\nSECRET/NODIS\n7\nJackson: We will ensure there can be no delay or filibuster. We\nwill get our drafting people on this to get the language right. We\nhad little time and this is only a rough idea and formulation.\nPresident: The ExIm Bank lawyers don't understand all the legis-\nlative procedures.\nJackson: We should look at the options.\nFORD\n?\nGERALD\nLIBRARY\nSECRET/NODIS\nRichingh Jaintol Twinno\nDECLARSIFIED\nNSC MEMO, 11/24/98, E.O. 12958, STATE SEC. DEPT. 3.5 GUIDELINES stateleview 3/9/04\n15 any\nBY Wa\n, NARA, DATE 3/25/04\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nWASHINGTON\nbe\nWASHINGTON\n- pool\n+ Chrisba is planning aregetoness\nP Toban 16-17 an to chin\nHenring me army as before they-\nJ y- and singh a power\nMarto to partntion a fe Mal Finh\nP und & he (o- 70 It\nJ- Q stark canem h zer the the\nK BM} foot at Zaindrea\nand MI thing want is a Crantment\nLetal sayong his part was / will\nJ They have a thing about money\nK If plan Cxll nyborn habit he hel. C Gurbs\nP #msis time count\nthis can Rhone from done w/o english\nJ Good\nfor 2 and a Company prof. a Cryans\nR Terms is sentif upln - you.\nPork hill\nJ segmat\nK we think buts sittle drawn by\nevery writ week & vego.\nJ you should ciga person his\nIn Termite x Jer K\non labor 5mg. and stock arrowriting\nP\n- seve has is mathof thright\n& is - further south people\nj= frints\nand ill world\npromity - not orthy for m lm theyer\nP There This is me who panching\nJackson\n# 2 tight better for the and thing.\nJac Great ihea\nfrom\nI - Kiss plan wrt gowel but - idea to\na trable to try and by, H hil- 2\ndidn't l broth Amerbunt, and\nP human you'rell many\nFORD\n&\nP- Review un close\nGERALD\nLIBRAR\nyou Benn whats new\nJan- 6-ypm any when\nGERALD\nRussell Ling egency to empayor\nK hastis Who will tabe somth 1/3\ndon't hnow truly. R by allo me\ne\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nWASHINGTON\nWASHINGTON\ndrughing is going will. If expirant\nhere com he world In sey will\ntalk to many He up\nabout JT. The Luter proph me\nd person us/ K+ fung driversions\nterms on fear\nPrility hill\nAmilier\n+ h thrs D50 cann in yestity-\nof - The trach his.\nhe had flowed to stying U at Syle\nthem hroging:\nOVT. Hearthout to indian instruct\nIa - urf this in C birl you will\nin policy unimated H spent\ngen will support WA by three\nunst time telling is Thirt Burg\nwho and prestient for bringswtin\nsocial transportment,\nK Inc text for attn - unit\n#'s, # buy world tone promal up.\nbrother - CP. Enta leyal dow.\nw/p. P under thritty\nFn ex emply, and crome m trunkly\nA B. Surry any primary\nw/su to 8 mg as personth happensh\nsaid bring to people remition to\nh - part\"\nhmt win to B.\n& 2 christi Om is\nJa Think and monthing good prog.\nFORD\na\nwrt first finish- all of\nRers arezing Reporter In of\nGERALO\nGERALD\ntheyan think, but int\nfrom So- they none meet\nThey hotmeting\nP\nyes 000 wonting 5 have. 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They may application\ncharma (Read Cost engh\nhapping himse of ME. world\nthing cauld have opth 3 yes)\n\"intinuss. WE human ip unimont\nTheir is girl thereoust, amp,\nthat SV in exon both was\nIn not courth\n1 amt wont to purk Them into\nfroms are tonghist, out\nevener.\nto amid quition. Astmt 5 hnw is\nNIFXI is tours of pride to\nthem. The credities a touchy\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nWASHINGTON\nWASHINGTON\non e 1 44 they dnit humany\nto form you or in to bank\nthing to 201 that dont nginc\nw/ < sv. we shouldnt he part\nUS ( opential. Oil,\nw plus where it has m provided\nthen our controlies. The unimal\nThey hime hydro pormh N Karisa party\ncry plant (40 Po enjoy is ymon) but\northgothing mates it an officiation\nacturn, ant a unt u.\nit Kuran crestal.\nfor This method wo be Three C banka\nP & gend anthorth fn MEN given\nP Lessue, Mashe a 12 mes\nI (Parmtunity 5 intry pro contraties\nvyst + of for A ansion. Cing\ns/ asservances they + I has given,\nand hm a chut $ insure\napprovably myself with.\nHim do m avond with up.\nIn performer yes, what and of is learnit\nI- we could with in must\nthing but w/ waine amhairty\nnot w/ in - drugs.\nwas would grant- his\n(Reads) This exergh language\nsu writ the FN\nThis is also your chrt w/c SU\nanaly & he bronde This\nP\nIs Home big a denial f currints\nbig cm Sain\nT Geilty also,\n9\nit ange any is\nP\nanothing world bun abl. Then\nL it me phospose The Phargene\nfor Every thing\na chain smilling ply to, country\nK has what morries me.\nwho levil\nI nume you university\ncan\nnot ad 1 Thn. Yorm dont armunt\nevery your, in un have\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nWASHINGTON\nWASHINGTON\nd what me with drun\nthis had & charts easy year\nJ use could make lung that\nJ T who mm. purty Throty. we\nworks then\nPres has ngat to comes & sm\nusered on interguetation about\nthis will centined for / you.\nFr.Br Mr + SU issued just\nP & provider which\nDe examy opposit.\nWR a Chrose\nhat SUAY what itments.\nspare go\nthis smite are email have is me\nP writers yes effert hnsiness\nJa USR med have providers\nJ Ema if ur cert B, urtra is\nmake emill\nto missin promps atter a\nP Would no your interest a\nK we can just get by hith\nposterium monthly 7 this\nThe interpriation statements\nla Uo, first non- month setaris.\noutrload - creamt we tray\nK It me month It apply KE E Emo\nwhich Ahmon them this litter\n&- Samul for are\nno cho assument art as on\nK Hmw Nont\nwhat performance mot hl, just\nfor you connect sup some\nhim to with it.\nRoumins day they writ have\n& Tm instruction litter is ext.\nFORD\nany pub.\nR But hno to Now to S.S\nPr Cmz\n+ S δ durant. How mild wr\nSupporing Ramin perferes\nhm Mr Chnt.\nK Hunn to distriguil het,\nla LOV would work that ant\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nWASHINGTON\nWASHINGTON\nfor am + I tmh I to Teanurson\nis for about 1005/minth.\n+ he smil he popts pur. J\nwouldn't want when approvents\nthey stopped ml crise So chairtt\nto \\ want against this purta.\nwont the to set from policy.\nP I one worn't about bazinge.\nPRC snt get\n2 would profer\nK Because thing wont A buy MFN from\nSV. Scarp its great futures in PRL\nto intorf.\nIn Thry 1 700 7 throat will crow them\nLents yet When tezether I\nEM. Chan muts I (mth R\nsr if m with whit nt.\n0 this.\ngo [hre to unstand Eng has\nJ- (mylint in Junish craming\nto when town anotherity.\nthat su has cirt rath + They\nJ I and can unah summitting cont\nshould enstre rah there our hum\non mains I be haven't it\nto them group form. 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