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    "title": "October 7, 1974 - Kissinger, Schlesinger",
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        "Portugal",
        "Federal budget",
        "Middle East conflicts",
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    "ocrText": "File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nPresidential Libraries Withdrawal Sheet\nWITHDRAWAL ID 017732\nREASON FOR WITHDRAWAL\nNational security restriction\nTYPE OF MATERIAL\nMemorandum of Conversation\nTITLE\nKissinger, Schlesinger\nDESCRIPTION\nRe Middle East, Cyprus, Europe, Nuclear\nWeapons\nCREATION DATE\n10/07/1974\nVOLUME\n5 pages\nCOLLECTION/SERIES/FOLDER ID\n031400258\nCOLLECTION TITLE\nNational Security Adviser. Memoranda of\nConversations\nBOX NUMBER\n6\nFOLDER TITLE\nOctober 7, 1974 - Kissinger,\nSchlesinger\nDATE WITHDRAWN\n05/11/2004\nWITHDRAWING ARCHIVIST\nGG\nREDACTED\n7/22/09\nMEMORANDUM\n(Senstive)\nScon croft\nTHE WHITE HOUSE\nfiled\nWASHINGTON\nSchlesingu\nMari\nTOP SECRET/XGDS\nMEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION\nPARTICIPANTS:\nJames R. Schlesinger, Secretary of Defense\nDr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State\nand Assistant to the President\nfor National Security Affairs\nLt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant\nto the President for National Security Affairs\nDATE AND TIME:\nMonday - October 7, 1974\n7:30 a.m. (Breakfast)\nPLACE:\nThe Pentagon\nSUBJECTS:\nMiddle East; Cyprus; Europe; Nuclear Weapons\nDeployments\nSchlesinger: How do you see the Middle East?\nKissinger: Not good. I am uneasy.\nSchlesinger: We have people working on contingency planning. I'm giving\nanother press conference and I will say we are hoping to resolve any problem\npeacefully.\nKissinger: The strategy is not to force a confrontation with the producers.\nIt is to scare them off another price rise and to mobilize the consumers. We\nare trying to get consumer restraint and we are setting up a $15 billion fund\nto equalize the burden. Then we can go after the prices. I think they will\ncrack before. -- I don't think they can stand the pressure.\nSchlesinger: I thought the press would say I was bellicose not pacific.\nKissinger: The press has a vested interest in dissension. I think we should\nkeep quiet now. I will talk to the Shah and tell him what we will be forced\nto do.\nDECLASSIFIED w/ portions exempted\nE.O. 12958 (as amended) SEC 3.3\nTOP SECRET/XGDS\nMR # 08-91, #1\nstate ltr 7/27/08, CIASTS 4/24/09; osoer 7/22/09\nBy dal NARA, Date 9/10/09\nTOP SECRET/XGDS\n-2-\nSchlesinger: He is getting more and more autocratic. Can you get the\nEgyptians to help themselves to the Libyan money?\nKissinger: If there is another move in the Sinai, I think the Egyptians will\nbe out of the war, and then they can.\nBut I don't know whether this Israeli Government can move.\nSchlesinger: Operating in the Persian Gulf is at the end of our logistic\ncapability. If you had to go in, could you use Israeli facilities?\nKissinger: Yes, but that would be dynamite. Israel would love it.\nSchlesinger: 70-800, 000 men and three carriers. Could we operate the oil\nsystem quietly? Or would we hav e to protect all the pipeline ?\nKissinger: Quietly if we do it quickly and without talking about it.\nSchlesinger: We need two months to get the troops and equipment out there.\nScowcroft: It's too bad there is no C-5 troop-carrying capacity.\nSchlesinger: The troops we can get out there. It is the equipment that will\nbe difficult.\nKissinger: You could say that the oil embargo would present us with the\ng ravest problems.\nSchlesinger: On Turkish aid, would the cutoff apply to old funds or new ones?\nKissinger: We think new ones only.\nThe Greek situation is not connected with Cyprus. It is analogous to\nPortugal. You should see Averoff. See him at the NPG.\nSchlesinger: I will be there -- in Rome on the 8th.\nKissinger: Maybe I can stop there after Ankara and we will all meet.\nSchlesinger: I am going to Germany again.\nTOP SECRET/XGDS\nTOP SECRET/XGDS\n-3-\nKissinger: Good.\nSchlesinger: We are planning the attrition of Phase I home-porting. I would\nplan on attriting our (of 8) destroyer families.\nKissinger: If you want to do it, let's use it in the negotiating. You could let\nthem use it for publicity. Karamanlis may be like Spinola.\nSchlesinger: Will the Army let it happen?\nKissinger: It depends on how demoralized they are.\nSchlesinger: How about Portugal?\nKissinger: They are on the way to Communism.\nKissinger: Portugal is a classic situation. The West has done absolutely\nnothing in Portugal.\nKissinger: The liberals hate America so they oppose all American allies and\nthey think all American opponents are philosophically right. Carl Kaysen\nplotted to do away with Adenauer.\nSchlesinger: I am beginning to agree with you on the Congress. They cut\n$5 billion this year.\nTOP SECRET/XGDS\nTOP SECRET/XGDS\n-4-\nKissinger: My nightmare is we could get into a declaratory policy that we\ncouldn't back up. If I felt we could get the money I would raise\nthe Soviets in the SALT negotiations. The President says he is being\nbegged to get $2.10 5 billion more [in cuts] from the Defense budget.\n[Schlesinger is obviously upset at this]\nThe President didn't identify the source of the recommendation.\nI fear that in three years we will face the same hassle on military\nbudgets that we are now facing on foreign aid.\nThe next generation of Soviet leaders won't have the fear of World\nWar II in their bones and they won't cave in cravenly like this bunch has.\nAnd we don't have the tactical forces.\nSchlesinger: I think Europe has six years to shape up.\nKissinger: It's a process of feudalization. Even in Germany. Leber, Schmidt,\nand Genscher are good but there is nothing behind them. We had better fear\na change in the GDR -- if they push human rights and develop an appeal to West\nGermans, there can be a resurgence of German nationalism.\nI am worried about Schmidt, even. He's the best we can expect, but\nhe will soon offer massive credits to the Soviets.\nFrance is a strong government, but has a weak political system. If\nwe lose Portugal, Greece and Italy, the elections in France would be tough.\nSchlesinger: Don't Jackson and Meany have a chance with the Democrats in\n1976?\nKissinger: Nixon's crime was to destroy the conservatives.\nHarriman is in charge of a study group which wants to cut $25 billion\nfrom the Defense budget. To defend against that, he is proposing a cut in\ncarriers, B-1, and the Trident.\nJackson would polarize. He would have to govern with the Republicans.\nSchlesinger: What about Muskie?\nKissinger: You can't get him past assured destruction.\nTOP SECRET/XGDS\nTOP SECRET/XGDS\n-5-\nSchlesinger: We are studying nuclear weapons deployments. We can't keep\nthem scattered around unless they will be protected. Congress will force us\nto pull them out.\nKissinger: If the Soviets get the idea we will pull the weapons, we won't get\nanything for them. Nominal redeployments are okay. But otherwise it will\nhave a bad effect on the Europeans and Soviets.\nSchlesinger: We are actually improving our nuclear posture. A pile of\nwarheads doesn't mean anything.\nKissinger: But the Europeans are so corrupt that is the way they look at it.\nSchlesinger: Murphy (of the Joint Committee) is going to look at the\nKissinger: Symington has a vendetta on nuclear weapons\nHe says\nthey are exposed to Soviet paratroopers.\nI will just give a good description in the NSC meeting. How do I explain\nthe Ikle position?\nSchlesinger: I am ready to give up warheads if that will help. I would go\nback to fewer and bigger on the Poseidon.\n2\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nPresidential Libraries Withdrawal Sheet\nWITHDRAWAL ID 017733\nREASON FOR WITHDRAWAL\nNational security restriction\nTYPE OF MATERIAL\nMemorandum of Conversation\nTITLE\nKissinger, Schlesinger\nDESCRIPTION\nBrent Scowcroft's handwritten version\nof memcon\nCREATION DATE\n10/07/1974\nVOLUME\n4 pages\nCOLLECTION/SERIES/FOLDER ID\n031400258\nCOLLECTION TITLE\nNational Security Adviser. Memoranda of\nConversations\nBOX NUMBER\n6\nFOLDER TITLE\nOctober 7, 1974 - Kissinger,\nSchlesinger\nDATE WITHDRAWN\n05/11/2004\nWITHDRAWING ARCHIVIST\nGG"
}