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March 3, 1975 - Ford, Israeli President Dr. Ephraim Katzir, Ambassador Dinitz
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1552972
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March 3, 1975 - Ford, Israeli President Dr. Ephraim Katzir, Ambassador Dinitz
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Memoranda of Conversations (Nixon and Ford Administrations)
Ford Administration Memoranda of Conversations
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Israel
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Middle East conflicts
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Scowerth file
MEMORANDUM
(orig in Dinite file)
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
CONFIDENTIAL/XGDS
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS:
Dr. Ephraim Katzir, President of the
State of Israel
Simcha Dinitz, Israeli Ambassador to the U.S.
Gideon Shamron, Director of the President's Office
President Ford
Lt. Gen. Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant
to the President for National Security Affairs
DATE AND TIME:
Monday March 3, 1975
3:02 - 3:45 p.m.
PLACE:
The Oval Office
The White House
[The press was admitted for photographs. There was a light discussion of
Florida and the University of Michigan, where Dr. Katzir had been visiting
as a lecturer. The press was then ushered out. ]
President: The situation on the campuses is much quieter now. The trouble
was in '69 and 170 -- those were destructive days.
STATE DEPT. GUIDELINES stableview3/11/04
Katzir: It proves that if it is only a destructive idea it will pass.
President: But in your country the students work so closely with the
FORD
government.
?
NARA, DATE 5/13/04
Katzir: Yes. Now and then there are some complaints.
GERALD
LIBRARY
President: How many universities are there in Israel?
DECLARSIFIED
LO. SEC.3.5
Katzir: We have seven. The University on Mount Scopus is especially
beautiful.
President: Were you born in Israel?
Katzir: No, I came there at the age of 7. I look back with great satisfaction
to see what we have accomplished over the years.
BY
CONFIDENTIAL/XGDS
File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
CONFIDENTIAL/XGDS
-2-
Dinitz: We have over 50, 000 students now in university.
President: Out of a population of 3 million. That is wonderful.
I have a son who is a college senior and is now just beginning to
realize he must go out and get a job.
Katzir: My son is a mathematician. I try to tell him it is useful.
Mr. President, I want to thank you in my name, and for Israel, for
all the help you have given -- in the social, economic, political and military
fields. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. We are much encouraged
by your strength and support.
President: Over the years I have always felt that Israel was our real friend
and ally. What I am trying to do is strengthen our friendship and to seek that
peace which is so much needed by your people and all the other nations in
the area. As you know, Secretary Kissinger is leaving Wednesday for the
Middle East. Nothing would please me more than for real progress to be
made. This is a rare opportunity for another giant step between Israel
and Egypt. He goes with my full support and backing to seek that peace which
will let your people develop their many talents in peace and security.
Katzir: There is nothing we want more than peace. I feel very close to the
United States -- I lived here for over three years, Your people and ours
have similar thoughts about democracy and freedom -- and we have a
common belief in the future of mankind. Our problem is we have tried so
many times to live in peace and have failed. Many are tired of trying, but
it is our feeling that we must keep trying. if it is step-by-step, give some
here and some there. But we must have security so that if peace does not
result we can defend ourselves. I am heartened by your speeches which
say that to have peace you must be strong.
President: I believe that deeply -- for you as for us. There are some
on the Hill who don't seem to agree, but we have made headway through
our strength. We want Israel to be strong also. We hope for success in
these negotiations. We think that going to Geneva now would be the worst
forum for carrying on delicate negotiations. The PLO would be an issue
right at the outset.
Katzir: I have gone through the publications of the PLO. If you are Israeli
you can't negotiate with them unless you are suicidal. They don't accept
our existence; they are willing to let those Israelis stay who were there
before 1918.
CONFIDENTIAL/XGDS
GERALD
LIBRARY
CONFIDENTIAL/XGDS
-3-
President: The alternative to Geneva is Kissinger's step-by-step
progress. The other alternative is stalemate with all its frustrations
and perhaps military action. I think we have to cut through some of the
issues which seem hard, but which must be taken. We want the security
and well being of Israel.
Katzir: We do have faith in the United States and in your wishes for us.
Dinitz: There is no one in government who favors Geneva over the
step-by-step. Our oblem is not getting along with Dr. Kissinger, but
with Egypt and Syria.
President: Let me assure you that I would tell any Egyptian or Syrian
official it is important for them to move. Movement on both sides is
essential.
I am encouraged, but there still is a substantial area of dis-
agreement. I am basically an optimist -- we must try.
Katzir: We agree, but you know how it is in a democracy.
Dinitz: I told Kissinger, who was upset at the Prime Minister's interview,
that he answered only under pressure and tried to navigate through with a
minimum of problems.
Katzir: I really feel that the Parliament will give its support to another
step. It must be the right step, of course.
President: May I ask the Ambassador -- when are we going to get
Rosenthal to realize he isn't helping Greece or Israel?
Dinitz: The Vice President called me on this. I went to the Hill to talk
to Rosenthal. He has come around, but he is not the master of the situation.
He cannot control Brademas and Sarbanes. Now they are looking for some
way to get out of it gracefully.
President: We are just looking for help. Your Ambassador has many
friends here and he is very influential. We are trying to get out of a
difficult situation which is helping no one. We are working with the
Senate leadership to get a waiver bill.
CONFIDENTIAL/XGDS
LIBRARY
CONFIDENTIAL/XGDS
-4-
Dinitz: I did speak to Case and Humphrey also.
Katzir: What surprises me is that despite the difficulty, people continue
to build. Building is going on, industry is expanding, etc. This is very
encouraging. We have plans for desalinization which, with your help,
shows great promise.
President: Is that like our San Diego project?
Katzir: On a bigger scale. We appreciate your cooperation.
President: Is the soil fertile?
Katzir: We need only water. We also are looking at alternative energy
sources.
President: It is encouraging to see scientists in the political arena.
Katzir: Science without morals or a sense of purpos e is not right.
President: How long is your term of office?
Katzir: It's five years, with one reelection possible. I have two loves:
biochemistry and people. Now I enjoy them both. I go to the labs on
weekends sometimes. Have you always been in politics?
President: I've been in politics for 26 years -- after law school I spent
four years in the military, then I was elected to Congress, and now I'm
here.
Katzir: We are happy you are here. We know of your attitude about
Israel, about Jews, about Jews in the Soviet Union. I was very pleased
by your statement on discrimination.
President: I thought I should say it. We do not believe in that sort of
thing.
Katzir: Yes, I have always thought that moral principles are not apart
from politics. Many of our politicians who come from Europe are cynical.
That is wrong.
FORD
?
CONFIDENTIAL/XGDS
GERALD
CONFIDENTIAL/XGDS
-5- -
President: Moralism is good politics in the long run.
Please give my regards to the Prime Minister and to Mr. Allon.
Katzir: I shall. Allon came to the airport to say goodbye and asked
that I convey his warm wishes to you.
President: Thank you.
CONFIDENTIAL/XGDS
FORD
$
GERALD
LIBRARY
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BY Na
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