Ask the Scholar
Document scope · 1 page
Scholar
Ask about this object, its catalog metadata, its source description, or the page inventory.
For page-specific OCR and visual context, open one of the page chats.
Scholar Source Context
Document identity
localId
1553107
label
June 3, 1975 - Ford, Kissinger, Pope Paul VI, Archbishop Casaroli
core
doc
dtoType
document
citationUrl
pageCount
1
Source metadata
id
1553107
sourceUrl
contentType
document
title
June 3, 1975 - Ford, Kissinger, Pope Paul VI, Archbishop Casaroli
citationUrl
collections
Memoranda of Conversations (Nixon and Ford Administrations)
Ford Administration Memoranda of Conversations
subjects
Portugal
Spain
Israel
Lebanon
Vatican City
Egypt
Vietnam (Republic)
Catholics
Communism
Food
Middle East conflicts
Presidential trips
Refugees
Helsinki Agreement, 1975
thumbnailUrl
largeImageUrl
imageCount
1
hasImages
yes
source
import
hasTranscription
no
Source extras
naId
1553107
coverageEndDate
day
3
logicalDate
1975-06-03
month
6
year
1975
coverageStartDate
day
3
logicalDate
1975-06-03
month
6
year
1975
levelOfDescription
fileUnit
recordType
description
ocrSource
nara-archive
Single page context
seq
1
pageIndex
0
type
document
mediaId
0fff074c68517a37
ocrText
File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
ZDRAFT MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION * MEETING OF PRESIDENT FORD WITH POPE PAUL VI
VATICAN CITY JUNE $ 3]
The President:
FORD. In 1956 Mrs. Ford and I visited Rome and were received by the Holy
Father.
POPE PAUL. This moment is very precious for us. We try to do ourbest to
follow your efforts towards peace and justice in the world. We try to carry
out our own task with faith and dedication. We of course have no political
interests; we # only want to help the cause of peace. We are fully aware
of the heavy responsibilities of your job and we pray for your continued success.
The President:
&.
Both myself and the people of the U.S. are most grateful for your broad
humanitarian interests as well as for your own search for peace. Your efforts
to help humanity are the greatest in the world and we thank you very much.
You yourself have contributed much in the area of peace. The U.S. has sought
in all parts of the world to achieve and maintain peace. We are concerned
about peace being maintained in Europe. And let me say most emphatically
that the U.S. is dedicated to the strengthening of Europe and ## that we are
SEALD, ..FORD
going to stay in Europe.
Paul.
We are also concerned about the maintenance of peace. Our ministry is
that of peace and brotherhood amongpeoples. With regard to Europe, we are
very grateful for your efforts toward peace in Europe. Europe, however, is
DECLASSIFIED
E.O. 12958 Sec. 3.6
MR 08-122 state Its 11/08
By dal NARA, Date 3/3/09
is not deeply united. The historical habits which ### make countries consider
themselves difeerent from one another are #### still stronger than the spirit
of unity. At the present time our voice is more humble, even though more
authoritative, since we have no temporal possessions. We try to build friend-
ship among peoples, including those whose faith is different from ours or
- 2 -
P. (cont'd) those who are alien to our interests. There is one great effort
that we make, that of giving to our catholic family and to all christians
the one same attitude of considering all to be brothers and of all being good
to one another.
Thifusidurt
I want to say most emphatically that the words that you have just said
have a broad and tremendous impact not only on all catholics but also on all
those who are devoted to Afther religions. Your spiritual impact is very great
throughout the entire world and we thank you for your leadership.
faul:
pape We have no other mission. Each year we send out a letter to our people
calling for love of peace. There should be a new psychology as the base for
brotherly love. We try to change the attitudes of the new generations, parti-
cularly the young people. We do our best, hoping that our undertakings are
in harmony with the policies of the U.S., a country in a position of leadership.
We do not want to exert leadership. We realize that it is not easy to change
the heart of man. We are glad at this time to have the opportunity to thank
the U.S., particularly its President, because we see that the U.S. has really
peaceful attitudes towards all peoples, even though you may find differences
among them. Whatever you undertake, be persevering in the fulfillment of
your mission. You may not always be praised by public opinion, but you.
should be the leaders in thefforts to unite peoples in justice and harmony.
F. The U.S. has indeed great responsibilities.
LIBRATT GERALD TORD
P. We pray for you.
F. We have a very great # opportunity. And I am trying as president to
provide the leadership that is so much needed in this world. For if the
- 3 -
F. (Cont'd) U.S. neglects its responsibility, we do not deserve the role that
has been given to us. We keep a high, strong level in our contacts and nego-
tiations both with our allies and our adversaries. I can assure you that that
is the mission of this administration. Now for a personal touch: our oldest
son, age 25, is studying in a seminary and will dedicate himself to serve his
fellow man, thus making up for his father's sins.
P. Your words are very significant. They show how Divine Providence can
guide our steps towards that new world where peace and harmony will be the
consecration of our work.
F. I would be most grateful for any recommendations that you may have regar-
ding my responsibilities. And I can assure you that any recommendations
from you will be most significant.
your
P. It is not our intention to abuse/suggestion but rather to make use of it.
We can inform you discreetly of any number of points of view. We do not want,
however, to have an openly stated mission. While we have not drawn a list of
questions, points we hope by the present note, which covers ##### certain points, to
better explain to you, Mr. President, what our thinking is.
F. We will find the note in question very helpful. Please feel free to
communicate with us at any time on any issue, because your broad view of the
world can be very helpful to us in the shaping of our policies.
P. Cardinal Cook e told us that he had made known to you some of his views.
F. We think highly of Cardinal Cooks. We know that he wants to help in the
attainment of the policy objectives of the U.S.
TRRATY GERALD
P. At the present time there is polarization of the great powers, which
- 4 -
P. (cont'd) brings about the divisions between East and West as well as the $
internal divisions within Europe. It is very. important that this polarization
and divisions be overcome. We want to help in any way in making this new world
one of love, justice and peace. We also understand the magnitude of your tasks
and realize that sometimes things do not come out as we wish.
F. We can work together to get a brighter sky for all mankind. I wonder
whether it would be possible for you to come to the U.S. in 1976 ## in con-
nection with the Eucharistic Congress. I hope you will honor the U.S. with
your visit.
P. The Eucharistic Congress is for young people.
F. But you are young ### in spirit
P. I would consider the possibility of such a beautiful trip as a pleasant
spiritual duty, since it would be helping your country in the celebration of
an important date. It is my wish and that of my bishops to give all our sup-
port to peace. Such work for peace is exemplified by the leadership of the
U.S. Please consider that you have in myself a man who is trying to promote
peace, an undertaking which is a part of the overall concept of the policies
of # the U.S.
F. Getting back to the Bicentennial celebrations in 1976, I want to say that
you would give the Bicentennial a great spiritual blessing if you were to come.
Such a gesture would be most helpful, not only ## to the young but to all
peoples of the world.
TREAT GERALD
P. We will see what can be done with the help of God. At the present time I
cannot make any commitments. Maybe we could bring some of the others at this
time.
- 5 -
P. (cont'd) Secretary Kissinger is an old friend. We have already met 2 or
times. His work has been very significant, both in its aims and in the step
by step ### by step approach. I believe that the step by step approach is
the right one, even though it may not always be successful.
ARCHBISHOP
/ From this point on both Secretary Kissinger and Cardinal Casaroli were
present at the meeting /
P. President Ford has encouraged us in and thanked us for our efforts on
behalf of peace. He also asked whether there were any problems we wanted
to
###### mention or any suggestions we wanted to make. To start you may
wish to know our views about the Middle East. We are glad to see that some-
thing is about to happen in that area, and you have our best wishes for
success. There are two kinds of events in the world: divisive ones and those
that bring people together.
bringing about
CASAROLI. Dr, Kissinger has just told there were some hopes of/a "rapproghement"
between Israel and Egypt before the Geneva conference.
KISSINGER. I know the Vatican can keep secrets because there has been no
public mention of this matter. We are trying to defuse the situation and
trying to take another step forward in bringing Israel and Egypt closer together
before going to Geneva. Sdat has goo will and he mad and President Ford made some
progress. If Rabin agrees we can make further progress. But if Rabin does
not agree, then we have to try the comprehensive solution.
TIBRAT GERALD TORD
P. Our formula is is a composite, organic one not as exclusive as Israel's -
which tries to find some form of peaceful coexistence in Jerusalem. Of course
we stay out of any political or military considerations.
C. The U.S. Govt. knows our position regarding Jerusalem. The only thing
- 6 -
/CASAROLI (cont'd)
is that a general formula is more difficult to put into practice.
K. Within a reasonable time we will make our position known on issues such
as the organic whole, including Jerusalem, and will be influenced by the
paper given to us by the Holy Father. We could prevent an immediate war
if there could be an agreement between Israel and Egypt. Then our compre-
hensive ideas regarding the whole problem could help.
(Paper on Jerusalem handed over at this time to Secretary Kissinger)
C
P. Lebanon is a spesial country where there has been a successful formula
for the coexistence of Moslems and Christians, until now. This shows that
upset
coexistence is possible. We recommend that the balance should not be Mark
for the sake of that country.
C. But now the balance has been upset by the presence of $$ 300,000 Pales-
tinians, who are not Lebanese citizens and are mostly Moslems.
K. And they are heavily armed.
GERALD
C. Lebanon can be a symbol of the coexistence between different religious
groups, and it can also be a window to the West.
P. We trust that with your wisdom you will find a solution to the Palestinian
problem. It will remain an explosive issue until it is settled.
C. The Holy Father has received appeals from Palestinian leaders asking him
to do something to put an end to violence. Arafat and other moderate Pales-
tinian leaders are prepared to recognize the existence of Israel.
K. In any contact between the Holy Father and Palestinian leaders, any
influence on Arafat would be helpful. We cannot have direct contact with
- 7 -
K. (cont'd) the Palestinian leaders. It is necessary to settle the Pales-
tine issue if there is going to be peace in the area. It is a question of
time. Still it would helpful if those who support our views could exert a
beneficial influence.
C. Regarding the Helsinki conference on European security, we try to be
helpful.
F. We do not think that the Western European nations should capitulate and
give in to Russia and accept the proposals of the
#######
Warsaw pact count-
ries. Such an attitude would expose the West to criticism. We # urge our
allies to insist on substance so that the Warsaw Pact nations do not prevail.
A capitulation just for the sake of having a conference would be bad tactics
for the U.S. and Europe.
K. It's the # question of the third basket.
F. The Holy Father could have a good impact on some Western allied nations
which are not as strong as they should be. Any influence in that area would
be to the best advantage of mankind.
P. There has to be perseverance.
TERRAT GERALD
P. We encourage and appreciate the efforts by the U.S. to feed the hungry
and help those in need of development. We admire your leadership and spirit
of good will which is fully consistent with our religion of peace and love.
F. Since I became President the U,S. has expanded its food programs. As
stated by Dr. Kissinger last week, the U.S. is an active participant in the
World Food Council, so that countries can develop and enhance their food
growing capabilities.
- 8 -
P. That is an excellent formula and it points to a new world based on coopera-
tion.
F. I know that you are concerned about the human problems in Indochina.
We have made an effort to bring out ##### 125,000 refugees, of which about
100,000 are in the U.S. or Guam. We want to make certain that they become
part of the U.S. and we welcome them as we assimilate them in our society,
with the help of the people of the U.S.
P. It is indeed a very great and noble undertaking on your part. Unfortu-
nately because of its very greatness many do not understand it or even give
it the wrong interpretation. We praise the actions of your country and are
willing to help. Also we thank you and may God bless you.
C. How can it be avoided to have develop in Spain a situation similar to
that in Portugal ?
VOND
F. We were pe ased when there was a movement that brought democracy to
Portugal. We are, however, disappointed with the present situation. The
people are in favor of democracy and freedom, but do not have the opportunity
as citizens to control their gobernment. We hope that the people in Prtugal
can have true democracy. Even though the situation is not to our liking, I
feel that if we all can help the Portuguese people to insist oh having real
democracy, that can be a good example in the fubure for Spain.
K. We have doubts as to the methods used by some countries in Europe regar-
ding help to Portugal. We feel that helping the radicals does not help the
moderates. Portugal could develop into a combination of Yugoslavia and Al-
geria. If it were to stay in NATO in that form it could have a bad influence
on Italy, leading to the historical compromise which we do not want. We are
concerned about the radical elements that seem to have taken over the Armed
- 9 -
K. (cont'd) Forces Movement.
F. We find it hard to understand how a Portugal with a Communist govern-
ment can be a partner. The Alliance was created for the purpose of oppo₂
sing Communism, so if a member of the Alliance becomes Communist through the
back door that could destroy the Alliance. We need therefore to strengthen
the democratic forces and help the people to take away the government from
the radicals.
P. We admire and praise your courage in making a stop in Spain. It may
encourage the forces of reason. It certainly was an original political
gesture. We realize it involed some risk but it was a wise move.
F. Our feeling is that we cannot have Portugal as an example for the wrong
forces. So we are concerned about any impact of Portugal on Spain and on
other countries, including Italy.
If we encourage the right forces in Portugal and contact the good forces
in Spain that should be good for the Alliance.
GERALD 2018
P. At the present time the Communists have moved into the Mediterranean,
the sea so closely linked to our civilization. We do not know their intentionss
We are glad to see the U.S. ####### supporting constructive forces that can be
helpful.
K. I told ## Archbishop Casaroli that we would welcome some guidance on
Spain as we do not know the whole situation. And we are to cooperate in
efforts aimed at preventing the development of a situation similar to that
in Portugal. We would also welcome any ideas as to which forces to help in
Spain. We should try to take preventive action so as not to be overtaken by
events.
- 10 -
P. Spain is a very religious Catholic country. Spain has great expectations.
We try to advise moderation in Spain's approach to cooperation with the rest
of Europe, which has rejected it for the time being. The situation in that
country is very special, and any assistance is appreciated. We can only
encourage your wise efforts and give our moral support.
F.This meeting was a great thrill for me and also a great opportunity. We
will work in these areas of humanitarian efforts aimed at peace and freedom.
P. There is much good that can de done in many delicate parts of the world,
such as Ethiopia, Malta, Portugal and Cyprus. There are many complex situa-
tions that require much good will. We trust God and we try to help. You
know you have in me a modest but true friend and ally of the U.S.
LIBRAT GERALD FURD