Ask the Scholar

{
    "localId": "498693802",
    "label": "October 12-16, 1970 [2 of 2]",
    "core": "doc",
    "dtoType": "document",
    "citationUrl": "https://catalog.archives.gov/id/498693802"
}

{
    "id": "498693802",
    "sourceUrl": "https://catalog.archives.gov/id/498693802",
    "contentType": "document",
    "title": "October 12-16, 1970 [2 of 2]",
    "citationUrl": "https://catalog.archives.gov/id/498693802",
    "collections": [
        "National Security Files (Nixon Administration)",
        "Henry A. Kissinger Telephone Conversation Transcripts (Telcons)"
    ],
    "iiifBase": "https://s3.dualstack.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/NARAprodstorage/lz/presidential-libraries/nixon/rn-nsf/579113/Batch0002/37-natsec-kissinger_telcons-579113-07-04/37-natsec-kissinger_telcons-579113-07-04-001.jpg",
    "thumbnailUrl": "https://s3.dualstack.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/NARAprodstorage/lz/presidential-libraries/nixon/rn-nsf/579113/Batch0002/37-natsec-kissinger_telcons-579113-07-04/37-natsec-kissinger_telcons-579113-07-04-001.jpg",
    "largeImageUrl": "https://s3.dualstack.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/NARAprodstorage/lz/presidential-libraries/nixon/rn-nsf/579113/Batch0002/37-natsec-kissinger_telcons-579113-07-04/37-natsec-kissinger_telcons-579113-07-04-001.jpg",
    "imageCount": 45,
    "hasImages": true,
    "source": "import",
    "hasTranscription": false
}

{
    "url": "https://catalog.archives.gov/id/498693802",
    "naId": 498693802,
    "levelOfDescription": "fileUnit",
    "recordType": "description",
    "ocrSource": "nara-archive"
}

{
    "seq": 45,
    "pageIndex": 0,
    "type": "document",
    "url": "https://s3.dualstack.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/NARAprodstorage/lz/presidential-libraries/nixon/rn-nsf/579113/Batch0002/37-natsec-kissinger_telcons-579113-07-04/37-natsec-kissinger_telcons-579113-07-04.pdf",
    "mediaId": "1a75b762c2f7721a",
    "ocrText": "Mr. Kissinger/ IO ? Herb Klein\nOctober 15, 1970\n3:05 p.m.\njlj\nK: I dialed wrong.\nIO: You dialed wrong?\nK: I wanted to talk to that good looking secretary of yours.\nI was wondering if you should call David Frost.\nIO: [Perhaps we would have more leverage that way. If you want me to\n]\nK: He would not dare to do anything against me\nIO: [I will call\n]\nK: Then I will let you make the final arrangements.\nIO: OK\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSchreiber/Kissinger\n5:50 pm\n10/15/70\nS: ? ? ? ? tried to make it easy on you. (Apparently K indicated that\nhe would speak for an hour instead of half an hour, at the President's suggestion.\nK: It's hard to do it properly in a short time. If you agree.\nS: We will run it like a clock. We will be through with lunch at 1:00 and\n1:00-2:00 with you. We will be through after you at 2:15.\nK: That is up to you.\nS: In order to get a bungalow without being with others, they have one with\ntwo bedrooms with one bedroom that double locks -- which you could use for\nthe agent.\nthey\nK: And I need one room that can sit in while I sleep.\nS: There's a livingroom. It's easier to watch there where you have a suite\nthen with one room across the hall. Do you need a car?\nK: The Secret Service will have me driven by their man.\nS: On Tues. I assume you will have things to do. Do you want me to meet\nyou at the Beverley Hills?\nK: I will call you back. The Pres dent is calling.\nFurther conversation: 6:08 pm\nK: It would be good if you would come by and talk about the meeting.\nS: About 11:00 I will come by. The other thing is that you will let me know\nabout Tues night and whether you want plans to be made or make your own/\nK: I think I will make my own plans. I will be back the following weekend\nand I would like to see you then.\nS: I am leaving for Europe. Dallas on the 21 st and then on to NY and then\nEurope. And return about Nov. 5 and sit back here until the end of the year.\nI want to fexlxx fill you in on the Times. Frank Murphy is a good friend of\nmine and I made a play to him to get Chandler and endorse Murphy. He said\nhe couldn't. I suggested he endorse the President and what he is doing and how\nwell we are doing internationally. Great leadership. By value of that, to\nmake gains, he must have a Republican Senate and therefore the Times is\nendorsing him. So opposed to Tunney they will have to go for Murphy. He said\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSchreiber/Kissinger\n5:50 pm\n10/15/70\n-2-\nS: (cont) maybe. So we have tried to work it out so they could gracefully\nturn around. I just talked to Chandler (or possibly Murphy missed the\nname but caught the inference) and said the President knew it was in his\nhands and I talked to Haldeman. Since you will be there the fact that perhaps\nyou will not have ax Republicans in the Senate so in your briefing you can\nbring that in.\nK: I will bring it in.\nS: They said the other night about what they thought he should do. I said I\nbelieve in democracy with a de dictator. You say he should do this or that but\nit takes a certain kind of man to do what we are doing now. He is a great\nguy and a wonderful man and doing a great job and I hope we will get gains\ninthe next years. One more administration beyond '72.\nK: Don't worry about the lunch. If it takes 45 mins. to serve I have no\npersonal interest in it and your people should feel good. The only reason\nIt was the President's idea. If you want to cut it to half an hour, that's fine.\nS: We wanted more time but we were reluctant. I said to come and bring\nfriends. We have 150 already. We may have to bring chairs in when you\nspeak. We announced the President was sending an emissary. They feel\nthey have something to learn. Our little group at dinner kasix raised a hell\nof a lot of money for Murphy.\nWill\nK: Axexthese fellows want to ask questions?\nS: Take 45 mins. and then 15 mins of wuestions. You will get two or three.\nThat's enough. The more questions they ask, the bolder they get.\nK: They don't worry me. I can handle them.\nS: I know.\nK: I have handled the Washington press corps.\nS: I am very sensitive to bringing concern to you fellows.\nK: You are a good friend.\nS: I will see you at 11:00.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\nOctober 15, 1970 6 p.m.\njlj\nP: How do you like that [about the Russian plane being highjacked?]\nK: Terrific\nP: I was told it was a Jewish couple. From Russia. Did you hear that?\nK: I had seen a report a couple of weeks ago that the Soviet airliners\nwere the most vulnerable. They take special precautions.\nP: Killed the stewardess. What do you think the Russians are going\nto do.\nK: In my opinion they will be tough. Because they do not want to set\nan example that this can be done to them.\nP: Tough on the Turks. I\nK: Criminal charges probably [will be brought against them. ]\nP: That is fair enough.\nhighjackings\nK: Question of political\nP: There is a lot of antisemitism in Russia now.\nK: Russians are very tough. I do not think [they will let this go.]\nP: This is one we will stay out of. I do not want the Turks to get\ninto any trouble.\nK: I am sure they will send the plane back. I am not sure they will\nsend the people back.\nP: It's just like we have a hell of a time.\nK: Plane and passengers will be returned. It is an amazing phenomonon.\nP: It is good that it happened.\nK: Shows that it is a universal problem.\nP: Maybe we could have a line or two in the UN speech.\nK: Put in the speech that you asked for this last year.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nP: Did you get the other thoughts that I had.\nIf\nK: Yes. We are working them in now. /Things broke right in the\nSoviet Union we could\nP: Compete in other fields. People need a little hope. We have been\ntough on them and now we must give them a little hope. How about\nAmbassador Korry. Is there anything new?\nRX K: I saw Karamassines today. That looks hopeless. I turned it\noff. Nothing would be worse than an abortive coup.\nP: Just tell him to do nothing. What I am afraid with the\nthat\nCharlie Meir (phonetic) will get him in his clutches and continue a\nlot of AID and I am not going to do a thing for them. I won't [continue\nthat much aid there. ]\nK: They have not said that they are nationalizing any companies, them\nor anything.\nP: I think the line with him is to be cooly detached. After all he has\nnot been selected yet.\nK: If he is\nP: Then we cut him off. KYXXX Hickenlooper applies. This country\nhas gotten 2-1/2 million dollars. Worst [diplomatic mess we have\ngotten ourselves into. ]\nK: You have said it all along and I was not at all sure until [until just\nlately. ] I had the Chilean Ambassador in today. He said is that what\nwe accomplished. Is that what we have worked for. [He is a very\nnice man. ]\nP: Sweet people. Chileans are all washed out. About this UN **** thing.\nUN thing with a little business of 1/2 savings from this or that.\nK: I think 1/3 would be more realistice.\nP: 1/3 - I think personally 1/2. 1/3 looks a little chinsy. Just say 1/2.\n[Have to have] something to offer.\npeaceful competition\nPick up some lines that have not been in any draft I have seen yet.\nK: I have been looking over a new draft this afternoon. The new one is\nbetter. I will have it for you some time during this evening.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSecretary Laird\n10/15/70 6:35 p.m.\nL: You know that draft of that cable I gave you yesterday?\nK: Yes.\nL: It's breaking out all over the damn area.\nK: I'm waiting for the NSDM to be signed by the President.\nL: There's nothing inconsistent in the cable with the NSDM.\nK: I'm not so sure of that, but let me get them both out tonight.\nL: Everyone was agreed on that. Helmut thinks we've taken the\nXMHGXX rug out from under him as far as his party is concerned.\nK: I'll gett them both out today.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nBob Haldeman\n10/14/70 7:35 p.m.\nH: Schreiber says you can have an hour and a half.\nK: Do I need that?\nH: No, I just said it wouldn't work out to do it in half an hour.\nHe said we were just trying to be easy on Henry. I said an hour would\nbe about right: half an hour for the presenation and half an hour for the\nquestions and answers. He said that's perfect, however Henry wants to\nwork it. He's extatiex ecstatic; he's got 125 acceptances. The thing's\nbooming.\nK: That's fine. I'll talk to him tomorrow about some of the\ndetails.\nH: He's rather have an hour.\nK: I just thought if I go all the wya out there I would to do it right.\nH: You're damn right.\nK: Will the President be in town on the 21st?\nH: Yes, he's seeing Souvanna Phouma that day. That's the day\nyou told him he had to.\nK: I'll have Haig sit in.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDr. Kraemer/Kissinger\nearly morning 10/16/70\nK: On Tuesday you had a meeting with your top man and also with the master\nof the (a French term I didn't get) and where representatives of Labor\nGeogandx George and Jay. This also an interest to Jay where the top man\nsaid to call the signals and we will follow you. He said you were quiet and\nhe felt he couldn't speak openly. He thought (again the French term) was\nmabillx bx unbrilliant.\nHAK: It was worse than that.\nK: I am using the English understatement. I saw the man for several hours\nthe other night. He is a close friend. He asked me that you call the signals\nand tell me and we will follow them he said you were the only one understanding\nHe said he would arrange himself to your wishes to have a conversation with\nyou and Gen. Haig and myself and not in your office. They cannot become\nknown as the executors of the will\nHAK: I understand.\nK: Think about it and let me know if we could arrangewx something at your\nplace not so good or my place. I never, but never, go into any\nrestaurants.\nHAK: I cannot go to a x restaurant without being in the newspapers.\nK: Everyone tells me that this half hour thing X brought you out nicely in a\ngood way. I didn't see it.\nHAK: Lucky the Harvard professors behaved outrageously.\nK: They said that. I have my reasons to disturb you on this\nHAK: You never disturb me.\nK: Would you look at your calendar ?\nHAK: I will be on the West Coast for part of next week.\nK: He is generally only here from Mon. - Wed. Then he is in NY.\nHAK: I will be out of town Mon. - Wed. Evening. Thurs. evening is\ndangerous because the President is giving a speech the next day and Fri.\nI will be with the President in NY.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nDr. Kraemer/Kissinger\nearly morning 10/16/70\n-2-\nK: When can this be --\nHAK: Nothing can be done at this end for top level attention before the 3rd.\nK: That's just one issue. It's partially an internal matter and should be done\nbefore the 3rd.\nHAK: Maybe Wed. Evening if I get back in time\n.\nK: You cannot predict your time?\nHAK: Around 9:00 -- not for dinner. Maybe it will slip to 9:30.\nK: I will say tentatively 9:00 Wed. at my home.\nHAK: I will be delighted. I think it's better then my home.\nK: I believe that. Your home should be looked after by some people. I talked\nwith Bell Hess the other day and made the point that you had a private home\nand it doesn't take much to find it. This man said if you hadn't talked to\nme about him he would only be another professor from the East. He is very\nreliable for you.\nHAK: I know that. I met him through you.\nK: Our conversation in my office, I will do everything to help. I will\ncall JL and say tentatively Wed. If he says that night he cannot do it, I\nwill let your secretary know. God be with you.\nHAK: Thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nJoe Sisco\n10/16/70 8:45 a. m.\nS. I wanted to give you a fill-in on\nK: Our minds, as usual, are working on similar lines. I had just\nasked my secretary to call you.\nS: First, the atmospherics. The atmosphere was very good.\nCordial tone, good personal rapport between the Secretary and Riad.\nSubstantively, we made up our minds ahead of time that no proposals\nwould be put forward. All we would do would be to feel out the situa-\ntion. He let the fellow say everything he wanted. In essence, they\ndeny the violations. The secretary said we've got tx it so cols that\nany time you want to look at it we'll be glad to show you. Riad gave\na general indication of willingness to extend the cease-fire, but\nthere's got to be progress in getting on with the talks. We we came\nto an extended cease-fire we are more likely to get more of a de facto\nextension than any other.\nK: That might be better.\nS: I think so too. XXX The Eggptians indicate they don't want to\nbe held in any formal way. So we're only going to accomplish a\nde facto extension of the cease-fire. We are not going to get the talks\nresumed.\nK: Why? Because they can't affort to talk now?\nS: One, it's a weak crowd, they have no process by which to con-\nsolidate their position. Unless it were the most minimal kinc of face\nsaver they can't admit that Nasser committed a violation. Even a\ntoken rectification would involve an admission. He gave me a very\nconfoluted argument. He said he was out of the country. But then when\nhe got back and found that Nasser had agreed, he argued that it was an\nunfair proposal, and then he proceeded to argu that they didn't violate it.\nK: That's like when I was talking with Vorontsoz and he said they\ndidn't go in. I said what about the advisors and he said \"All the advisors\ndropped off at the border. 11\nS: Yes. Thank you for the decisions both on arms and credit. The\narms decision took care of our problem on the other side.\nK: You won your argument about the Assistant Secretaries\n[had to go off the line to answer a call]\nS: I'll call you back tonight.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nAmb. William Sullivan\n16 Oct 70; 10:25 a. m.\nS: I have just talked to Bui Diem, who talked with Vice President Ky in\nParis. Ky has accepted Diem's recommendation he leave whole question\nof visit up to Diem to work out. Diam wants to talk with me about it.\nK: He shouldn't come until after the election.\nS: That part is agreed. The question I am faced with is this. Ky keeps\ntelling people he has an invitation from the President.\nK: That is pretty much true. The President has pretty much said we\ncould invite him to an informal dinner at the White House if it comes\nafter the election period.\nS: Do we call it official or unofficial?\nK: Unofficial.\nS: I will of course check with Diem to work out the visit to the military\ncamps where people are being trained. How best to get a date for the\ndinner - through Protocol?\nK: I can get it for you, but it may take a week.\nS: If you could get me the date I will put off Diem. But leave date\nblank except somewhere toward the end of November. Then we could\nwork on the other stuff. You don't have any exception whether visit\nto military camps comes before or after the elections?\nK: No.\nS: I will go ahead on that basis and if you could get me a time for the\ndinner sometime next week then we can make it a little more precise.\nI brought you greetings from Denis Healey who regretted missing you.\nHe is now the Shadow Foreign Secretary, you know. He was in great form.\nK: He is a great fellow.\nS: He said he is not going to hold any debates on the President's initiative\nbecause he is sneaking these reports.\n[making](?)\nms\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nChuck Bailey (Chi. Sun Times)\n10/16/70 10:30 a. m.\nK: I read a summary -- I didn't read the original but I read a\nsummary of your column in which you say that the Nixon/Kissinger\ngroup was crying wolf too much on Cuba. Let me say two things about\nit. First, what was said was an agreed upon inter-departmental state-\nment. It was a pure accident that I was the first up at the time the\nquestion was asked. If I hadn't said it at 2:30, State would have said it\nat 4:00. It was an agreed position; not a private initiative. Secondly,\nand I don't want you to write about this; this just for your information,\nwhen the facts are out, you will realize that what we did was a minimum\nreaction. If we could do as well on other things as we did on this\nB: I'll agree on that. The Russians went all the way on this, didn';t\nthey?\nK: If we had let the thing go, we might have gotten into a real con-\nfrontation two months from now.\nB: But did you have to make it public?\nK: Yes, this made it easier for them to say there was nothing there.\nWe said \"If it develops into something.\n11\nB: And you gotixx it anyway. I think it was good.\nK: I don't want to go into what was done privately. But this was done\nwith minimum humiliation for the Soviets.\nB: It just looked like part of a pattern, heating up the political atmos-\nphere without much benefit to the international one.\nK: We felt it was important that the Soviets realize that they were\ngetting to the edge of what might lead to a reassessment of policy for us.\nB: This friend of mine said that there were understandings between\nWashington and Moscow which underly wll of what has been going on.\nK: That's not true. I wish it were. There is nothing we would\nrather have than an understanding with the Russians. Anyone who's\nbeen through the last 25 years realizes there are no victories in con-\nfrontation. We are following a policy of trying to come to basic under-\nstandings with them. If we don't, sooner or later someone is going to\ntry to face someone down.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nChuck Bailey\n10/16/70 10:30 m. page 2\nB: I thought bringing it into the poen sort of poked it into a con-\nfrontation. You know Kennedy said that if you give the Khrushchev\nan ultimatum\nK: But we didn't give them one. We said \"If there is a base\n11\nthey said that there wasn't one and we did not contradict it.\nB: Why did they back down?\nK: The cost to them of keeping it there. The political atmosphere\nin this country would have heated up enormously if during SALT they\nhad put a base in there.\nB: But they were doing something there?\nK: They were making a substantial effort. We wouldn't have been\ndone this if there hadn't been something. I'm not asking you to write\nabout this again. I would just as soon that you leave the record as it is.\nLeave your criticism on the record, but I just wanted you to know.\nB: Thank you for that.\nK: I don't think anything is served now by writing about it again.\nThe more low key the better.\nB: I have a friend in intelligence who says this is more of a demarche\nthan ever/ indicated. But you think it's better to leave it alone now?\nK: Yes.\nE: Thank you for calling.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nAlbert Wohlstetter\n16 Oct 70; 10:45 a. m.\nW: Did you have time to read the letter [paper]?\nK: I read it. I think it is a superb piece, extremely devastating (?)\nWho has seen it? I am told you sent it to Gerry Smith, too.\nW: No, absolutely not. I have not sent it to him. Cy has seen it.\nK: I am going to insist on the bureaucracy answering the issues you raised.\nW: Fine. I am going to be there next week, beginning Wednesday afternoon.\nK: Let me see whether we can get together.\nW: If meeting late in the afternoon is better for you, that is quite as\ngood for me.\nK: Wednesday I will be out of town, but maybe Thursday. Check with\nDavid Young.\nW: Fine, and does Thursday evening or late in the afternoon look good?\nK: Let's try for that.\nms\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nRay Price\n10/16/70 11:05 a. m.\nK: We have redone the UN speech here based on Presidential\nguidance, departmental drafts, speechwriters' drafts and other things.\nIt is being typed now and I am getting it over to you. I just wanted to\ntell you where we stood. He doesn't want to use the one percent GNP\nthing in it.\nP: I think it's better not to use it in the speech. Let the word\nget out ahead of time so the speech will be better received.\nK: Exactly.\nP: Okay, fine.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nFlanigan/Kissinger\nnoon\n10/16/70\nJapanese\nF: Did you see what Sato said inđustry?\nK: It's outrageous.\nF: I think Sato and Miazawa are playing a game. I had Trezise say we are\nnot playing that game. Ushiba told them back and Miazawa said they should\nhave only said something to the Ambassador. That's nonsesne, of course.\nK: Tell Miazawa we have nothing back until they have a proposition. And the\nPresident will not discuss it until then.\nF: Until there's an agreement firm enough, the President will not speak.\nThe proposition bu put through the Embassy is unsatisfacotry in terms of\ntextiles.\nK: And insulting.\nF: I will give you a verbatim when we get it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/The President\nOctober 16, 1970 1:15 p.m.\n[paraphrased]\njlj\n[entered the conversation late]\nP: He is a fair fellow and I just wanted to accomplish\nK: Accomplished everything you set out to do. That Soviet submarine\ntender went on a little maneuver and then stopped at a port on the\nnorthern shore of Cuba - the normal port of entry and return. We have\nno reason to suppose that they will not return. Despite instructions\nnot to say anything the Defense Department put it out that it has\nreturned to a Cuban port.\nP: Who the hell over there is doing it? We ordered them not to say\na damn thing.\nK: Not a damn thing. They released it 1/2 hour after the incoming\nmessage had been received.\nP: How did they put it out? Did it come from the Secretary's office,\nor Navy's?\nK: Statement. The regular Defense Department briefing.\nP: Well be sure that Bill knows this before his briefing tonight. Call\nhim and tell him we want him to know that we did not know anything\nabout it. I am raising [holy] hell about it.\nK: They released it after I had put out another directive reminding\nthem not to say a word about it.\nP: We must be sure that Bill just knows. I talked to him about announcing\nthe meeting between Gromyko and myself. Told him that any mention\nof the Summit would be later. That we did not want anything to crack\non it.\nK: I think he is relaxed mood about this.\nP: On this Summit thing. I would have no objection if Gromyko came\nat him about it but there would be a lot of people in the room, wouldn't\nthere? [Would be better not to have anything said about it. ]\nK: As long as Bill knows what we know about it then there shouldn't\nbe any problem.\nP: This question of who goes first. They would go\nI would go.\nI don't know. If it could come up in a way\nK: I am seeing Dobrynin tomorrow and I will get it straightened out.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nP: Tell him this is no protocol problem or anything here. We both\nknow what we want. Perhaps he could note interest and the\ncommunications in discussions. They he note what we want. Then\nhe will come in and say why not here and I will come in and say\nthat is fine.\nK: OK Mr. President\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nFrost/Kissinger\n1:50 p.m.\n10/16/70\nK: What plots are you laying now?\nF:\nWhy, I don't think the Heath administration will topple, do you?\nK: You don't do confine yourself to the country you are in. Once we had\nCambodia and then Jordan.\nF: I have felt guilty ever since. Long time no see.\nK: I am sorry that you felt you had - - are you returning my call or did you\nhave something to ask me?\nF: I am delightedly returning your call because I was about to call you.\nK: After the President saw me on \"60 Minutes\" he now wants me to go\non other programs. NBC is driving me crazy and I had an understanding\nwith you to do something, so I thought I'd check.\nF: Let's do it and you will be free.\nK: Let me think about it. When did you want to do it?\nF: I am on the coast for 10 days. No hope of your being in San Clemente in\nthe next 10 days?\nK: I wil be in L. A. on Tues. for a day and then again on the 29th.\nF: 29th I fly back. Do you have a supper for 2 or 4 on Tues. ?\nK: Where are you staying?\nF: The Beverley Hills Hotel.\nK: So am I. I am getting into L. A. on Mon. night.\nF: We will communicate at the Beverley Hills on Tues. morning.\nK: You will be there until the end of the following week?\nF: Wed. of the XX following week and then back to London. I want to see that\nprogram because I missed it. They say you were smashing. If from your\ntimetable you wanted to do it, we could do it next Tues.\nK: I would prefer not to. I want to extablish ground rules with you. I don't\nwant to get into the substance of foreign policy.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nFrost/Kissinger\n1:50 p.m. 10/16/70\n-2-\nF: Particularly between you and I because we discuss things off the\nrecord so we will work out on the record.\nK: Right and an hour and a half is a long time.\nF: If you want 45 mins. would be easy. And we could work out something over\na drink in Calif.\nK: Lets get together in Calif. Probably early afternoon is good for me -- at 3:00.\nF: Post-lunch date at 3:00. I am addressing the Women's Press Club.\nK: And I, a group of tycoons.\nF: ? ? ? ? In terms of the program how about after the elections on some --\nwe wouldn't tape until after that. A couple of suggestions - -- Wed. the 4th or\nthe 5th or the following week Mon. - Thurs., 9-12. We tape at the end of the\nday -- around 6:30.\nK: Let's settle that on Tues. I will see you on Tues. at the Beverley Hills. If\nit's a crisis within 3 days afterwards, as much as I like you I will not see you\nagain.\nF: Only 2 days. The 3rd isn't up to me. Look forward to seeing you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nBill Leonard/Kissinger\n3:00 pm\n10/16/70\nL: I called to thank you.\nK: You did a good job. You kept your promise.\nL: It wasn't as good as I wanted it to be. It didn't do you justice. I wish it\nhad more of your mind and less of your body.\nK: Everyone has made favorable comments.\nL: Only from me.\nK: With 5-6 minutes of interviewing they couldn't get into substance.\nL: It was good for the country and us and I hope for you.\nK: You are nice to say this. It was a dignified and good job. I appreciated\nthe way Mike and Margaret Osmer went at it. It was done with respect and\ndignity.\nL: I know your original trepedition. I am glad we are having this conversation.\nK: You have a freind here.\nL: I am glad.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nJohnson/Kissinger\n3:05 pm\n10/16/70\nK: Two things -- one, you have the word that you have prevailed as usual and\nwe are inviting the 5 regional people. It's absolutely right.\nJ: Yes.\nK: We have issued a directive on burden sharing and we have asked Laird\nto re-draft the cable as a result of it. Our views and State's are close on\nthis. Help us police it and don't duck responsibility on us.\nJ: On the re-draft?\nK: Yes. We don't want to blackmail Europe. We want to keep them making\nmilitary X instead of\nfor us.\nJ: To the degree we cannot get\nwe will get\n.\nK: A financial one because they think they cannot get the cut.\nJ: I will follow up.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nFlanigan/Kissinger\nafternoon\n10/16/70\nF: I understand the head of the Japanese Chamber of Commerce is coming\nto see Shultz. I have another thought. Since then 2 things have happened.\nWe have this ridiculous proposal from Miazawa and Sato's position in the\npress conference. To be sure they know how we feel, ask him to come in and\ntell them how we feel.\nK: Silence is the best. They know how we feel. If we get angry, they have\nmore on us. We don't want the trade bill but the more they know, the worse\nit is.\nF: There's a press story in that turns around what you said to Ushiba here.\nIt says you wanted our\n.\nK: I would just ignore that.\nX F: Leave it be. If he comes in on his own initiative?\nK: Give him hell.\nF: There's no statement from them that on this issue of textiles, Sato should\nnot bring it up.\nK: Let's wait with that until early next week.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nGELCON\nPresident/Kissinger\nlate afternoon\n10/16/70\nR: I have decided that I am so tied up for tomorrow I will not have time to look\nat the speech today and that will give them another day. He is going tomorrow\nwith me but see if Safire has any thoughts for sharpening up.\nK: I sent one copy to Price to make him feel better but Safire gets it into the\nbest language.\nP: xlxxx He may think of a phrase that will catch on. I sent over a little yellow\nsheet that made the points I made yesterday. The ideas from the two speeches\nnot building missiles and so forth. That up-lift theme is very important in\nthe conclusion.\nin\nK: It's there now. Maybe ink not adequately. Perhaps we can lift it\nmore. We lifted it the\none paragraph from it.\nP: Don't refer back. Just quote it as if it's new. I want to see it at\n10:00 am. m Sunday. No sooner. The way it's working -- your fellow\nand Price so we have a montage. In terms of length it cannot be over\n2500 words.\nK: It's probably a little more now.\nP: It's got to be in terms of 2600-2700. I cannot take 3500 words and cut\nit this weekend. I may want to put something in. I prefer close to 2500. I\ndon't think it requires more than that. What is the general thrust now?\nK: I could get a copy now. The general thrust is general words about the UN.\nP: I don't have time to fill my mind with it now. In the beginning we want\nperspective of history.\nK: Some of who had seen changes of 25 years.\nP: Number of new nations and number of new people since WWII. Number\nof people born since the UN has come into being.\nK: Then itsxax there's a section which wpeaks of need for restraint in\ninternational relations and Soviet/U.S relations and winds up with theme\nP: Of what pulls us together --\nK: And first 25 years we were enemies and became adversaries and now let's\nbecome competitors. Now we should do something jointly. Prisoners of war,\npeacekeeping, narcotics. Then a very idealistic secite section working towards\npeace.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPresident/Kissinger\nlate afternoon 10/16/60\n-2-\nP: What you could do is get in the theme that 25 years ago the U.S. had\nbasically worked together to bring UN into being and hopes of the world\nwere there for the two great powers working together and the great secret (?)\nin the next 25 years is to work together again. It downgrades the other\nnations but they know it's the truth.\nK: It doesn't have to. It's good.\nP: Say with our allies and friends reached a point to meet in San Francisco\nand we worked together despite differences in ideology and did not inpair\nour working together readily and now we need a kxxixxx XX victory for peace.\nWe worked together for a military victory, now we need a victory over\npoverty and that stuff. Give Ray and Safire a crack. I want a final\nversion at 10:00 a.m. Sunday morning. That gives the boys more time.\nK: You will have a good product.\nP: We may catch the mood in view of the fact that Gromyko meeting was\nthe day before. We may catch the right note and get some credit for the\nspeech. We didn't last year.\nK: There was a concerted campaign against you last year.\nP: Even though it was a good speech but in comparison to Kennedy xxx speech - -\nI was reading the Kennedy speech after the Russians recognized East Germany\nand he talked about Stalingrad. What rhetoric! And in terms of inflrammatory -\ntalks about wall being built thereafter. I would have built it too! We are\nstanding firm here and there. It was basically as at the inaugural, to move\npeople without the responsibility. Even Bartlett -- do they realize how\nirresponsible that period was?\nK: Not actually but if they ask what they accomplished -- the text ban was 3\nyears after\n.\nP: The test ban was no accomplishment.\nK: Put everything underground where it's hard to figure out what they are doing.\nP: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? You are using a lot of Price.\nK: Yes.\nP: Get Saifire to work it but not re-write it. You need one architect.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nSecretary Rogers\n16 Oct 70; 6:30 p.m.\n(Secretary Rogers talked to General Haig for a few minutes, in\nDr. Kissinger's absence.)\nR: I have been tied up all day and dan haven't heard any news. I heard\na report that the Pentagon made further comments about the Cuba base.\nHaig: What happened is the Navy reported that the tender and the tug\nhad pulled into the Marian base up north, that all Soviet ships come into.\nThey just announced that quietly today which infuriated.\n(Dr. Kissinger entered conversation at this point.)\nK: I was going to call you to let you know this Defense announcement\non Cuba was totally unauthorized. The President went through the\nceiling. It was really outrageous. This is the port where they always\nX stop and refuel. This now puts them into the position where they seem\nto have backed down.\nR: It is going to be tough for me to handle tonight with Gromyko.\nK: They didn't even give us the intelligence. We learned of it 3 minutes\nbefore they put it on the news. I had Al call up and say nothing would\nbe said. They called and said it was already done.\nR: What did they actually say?\nK: Submarine that left Cienfuegos Harbor has reappared and now is in\nanother harbor. Gave name of it. Made it sound like not much of a\nmenace. Asked, does that mean they are establishing a submarine base.\nAnswered, we are watching the situation.\nR: The Russians are going to wonder whether we are shaking them\nparticularly on the meeting, or my meeting with Gromyko.\nK: You are going to announce whenever you think proper the meeting\nwith the President -- right?\nR: The President suggested I do it Monday, and I think it much better Monday.\nK: That was the President's view to make it look as if it came out of\nyour meeting with Gromyko.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon - Rogers (Contd)\n-2-\nR: Gromyko knows about it, does he?\nK: Yes. But I didn't tell him the details.\nR: Why not tell him we think it is tentative at present but I will\nhave final announcement Monday.\nK: I think he may think it goes this week, but you may tell him the\ndetails on Monday. And we will announce it Monday. The meeting\nwill be Thursday at 11, the President and you on our side and\nGromyko and Dobrynin on theirs.\nR: Why not play it that way because I think it much better to do it\non Monday.\nms\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n.\nWash Exering Star, Friday Oct 11, 1970\nWhite House Briefings\nAnger Pentagon Aides\nBy ORR KELLY\nofficials held other full-scale\nStar Staff Writer\nregional backgrounders for re-\nSome high Pentagon offi-\nporters and editors in San\ncials are furious about a series\nClemente, Calif.; New Orle-\nof background sessions with\nans, and Chicago, and smaller\nnews representatives that the\nsessions with executives of at\nWhite House recently conduct-\nleast two individual newspa-\ned in various parts of the\npers.\ncountry.\nThe San Clemente and Chi-\nOne official privately de-\ncago backgrounders resulted\nscribed the backgrounders as\nin major public controversies.\npolitically motivated and \"ir-\nDuring the San Clemente\nresponsible.\"\nsession, an official-since\nAnother influential Defense\nwidely identified as Dr. Henry\nofficial, asked about a state-\nKissinger, the top White House\nment made amid scores of\nforeign affairs adviser-spoke\nnewsmen during one of the\nof the possibility of ejecting\nsessions, pounded on the arm\nthe Soviet Union from Egypt.\nof his chair and exclaimed:\nDuring the Chicago session,\n\"I'm not going to be bound by\nan official-since wildly identi-\nany goddam White House\nfied as the President\nbackgrounder!\"\nhimself-was quoted as saying\nthe U.S. might intervene mili-\nLast One in Hartford\ntarily in the Jordanian crisis.\nServing to arouse the ire of\nthese and a number of other\nOpposing View Exists\nPentagon officials this week\nAlthough some Pentagon of-\nwere reports emanating from\nficials say they feel that their\na background session in Hart-\ncolleagues at the White House\nford, Conn., Monday, when\nand State Department should\nmen who can be identified\nstay home and do less talking,\nonly as administration offi-\nthat viewpoint is not shared by\ncials talked about American\neveryone at the Defense De-\nshipments of planes and other\npartment.\nmilitary equipment to Israel.\nOne veteran public affairs\nThe feeling of the Pentagon\nofficer, who has himself ar-\nofficials is that the Middle\nranged countless background\nEast situation is delicate\nsessions for officials of both\nenough without administration\npolitical parties, said he\nofficials discussing - even on\nthought the Nixon administra-\na background basis-arms\ntion's meetings with news ex-\nshipments to Israel during the\necutives in various parts of\ncease-fire.\nthe country was a perfectly\nThe Hartford backgrounder\nlegitimate method of increas-\nwas the most recent in the\ning public understanding of\nseries. Before it, White House\nadministration polices.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Secy. Laird\n7:20 p.m., October 16, 1970\nK:\nThree things, two of which I have to talk around. That thing,\n...\nL:\nYeah.\nK:\nI got a briefing that you mentioned to me.\nL:\nYeah, right.\nK:\nThat one operation, the President wants to go ahead with it.\nNovember is suitable.\nL:\nI have it laid on, all I have to do is call it off.\nK:\nHe wants it held to you, me and him. Anyone from you that has to\nknow of course.\nL:\nIt has been fairly well worked out. What did you think of it?\nK:\nI thought it was outstanding. I told the President you deserved [a lot\nof credit, that you did an outstanding job. ]\nL:\nThey are confident they can do it. Once in a while we have to take\nchances.\nK:\nIf it fails, then it shows that we at least tried something. ???\nthat country a few weeks ago. We want to know before anything is\nactually done.\nL:\nThis is something we haven't done ???????? and they shouldn't\nmisinterpret the message we sent them.\nK:\nRight, you shouldn't pull back from that thought. The third thing,\nthat Star story. That is awfully\nwhen senior Defense\nofficials can [make those statements. ???] I think I know where\nit came from.\nL:\nWhere do you think it came from Henry?\nK:\n[I don't know and I don't want to be accused of making allegations but\nI think it came out of ISA.] First of all it was Sisco who said it, not\nthe White House. Without going into the mechanics of it all, Defense\nand White House have worked very well together. [Now this. ]\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Secy. Laird\n7:20 p. m., October 16, 1970\nL:\nI have already checked with Dan Henkin and [he couldn't find out who\nmade the statement. ]\nK:\n[It was probably] Pranger or one of his people. They are psychosomatic\non this issue. I don't think Kelly would write a thing like that unless\nsomeone had given it to him.\nL:\nI thought it might have been some of the military that did it. I\nwill call ISA and check it out.\nK:\nYou and I have worked so well together [we didn't need this sort of\nthing. ]\nL:\nI went to Dan Henkin and I thought he handled it right.\nK:\nWe don't need to say anything more about it.\nL:\nIt might be ISA, I will check that out. Have got three or four people\nthat talked to Kelly from the Joint Staff.\nK:\n????? Actually what happened is Sisco said it but they are attacking\nthe President too and I didn't think ???.\nL:\nI was damm mad and I called Henkin and\n.\nI'll get to ISA\non that tomorrow. Anything else?\nK:\nNot now.\nL:\nI am going to make a\nin Milwaukeetomorrow afternoon.\nK:\nAre you going there? Are you going to be there with the President?\nL:\nRight, television interview program set up in connection with the\nvisit but I won't get into any trouble.\nK:\n[Don't worry about this story. ???\nL:\nThat really bothered me. Henkin tried to talk to everyone that talked\nto Kelly.\nK:\nI think it is a reflection ?????.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Secy. Laird\n7:20 p. m., October 16, 1970 -- page 3\nL\nYes, it's a reflection.\nK:\nThe President will be sore as hell, he likes these backgrounders.\nThe White House doesn't say anything that he hasn't personally\napproved before and most of the time he is sitting right there.\nL:\nNobody in my shop has ever criticized the backgrounders before.\nI know Bill doesn't like them but he doesn't criticize them. You know\nthey use these damm ploys around town to try and divide us all the\ntime.\nK:\nThey can't divide us. Have a good time in Wisconsin, Mel.\nL:\nWill be back and be here Sunday. Might not be able to check that\nout tomorrow, I may have to wait until Monday.\nK:\nAll right Mel.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Herb Klein\n7:35 p.m., October 16, 1970\nHAK:\nAre you taking advantage of the yokels again.\nK:\n(laughter)\nHAK:\nNot answering questions.\nK:\nMaking me self-conscious when I go into my act. I tried to reach\nFrost.\nHAK:\nHe called me today and I told him in principal that you had tried\nto reach him and I guess he expected what it was all about. He,\nas it happens will be on the West Coast staying at the same hotel\nwhere I will be staying. The thing I don't know, do you think it\nmakes any difference if I do it before the elections?\nK:\nIt would be helpful.\nHAK:\nWould have to press him pretty hard.\nK:\nDon't think you want to press him hard. His normal simulation (?)\ntime is two weeks ahead. Did he mention that to you at all?\nHAK:\nNo, he said he would be on the West Coast for 10 days. If I\npressed him, he would tape on Monday while I was on the West Coast.\nK:\nDon't want to press if it won't be anything good.\nHAK:\nI told him what it was, that I don't want to do an hour and a half and\nI wanted a veto on the girl that comes on the show after me.\nK:\nWhat you are saying is you want your type, not his.\nHAK:\nI am coming back Monday and going out to the West Coast.\nK:\nI will check on the packaging time through Westinghouse. I saw what\none of your close friends in the Pentago put out.\nHAK:\nWhat am I going to do, Sisco put this out, not us.\nK:\nJust forget it, if that is all the static you are going to get.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Herb Klein\n7:35 p.m., October 16, 1970 -- page 2\nHAK:\nThese backgrounders work pretty well. [The President likes\nthem and most of the time he is sitting right there.]\nK:\nIf this is the only knock we are going to get ???????.\nHAK: I called Laird. Why don't you call Laird while he is still sweating.\nReally call him and tell him the President likes these backgrounders\nand that he will really be [outraged].\nK:\nI'll call him ?????.\nHAK:\nCan you do it right away and [let me know afterwards].\nK:\nGot to speak at a dinner in a little while [I will do it as soon afterwards\nas I can].\nHAK:\nPoor sucker, if you wouldn't be seem so kind.\nK: I am.\nHAK:\nYou don't feel ?????\nK: About tonight ???.\nHAK:\nJust wait until I am back at Harvard and get into their good graces.\nThey will never forgive your loyalty.\nK:\nI'll get back to you in a little while.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Secy. Packard\n7:50 p.m., October 16, 1970\nK:\nDave\nP:\nYeah, Henry.\nK:\nI wanted to call you about the Orr Kelly story in the Star.\nP:\nAs soon as I read the goddamm thing, I knew you would call.\nK:\nEveryone here is really outraged. When Defense officials say\nI am not going to be bound by any White House backgrounder.\nThe President likes these backgrounders and the President sits\nthere while these backgrounders are going on. One of them was\nsaid by Sisco and the other one was said by the President himself.\nP:\nAs I said, I knew you would call.\nK:\nReally think this comes from this damm ISA.\nP:\nI will do whatever I can to find out about it.\nK:\nThat is all you can do.\nP:\nI will do what I can.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Bill Safire\n7:50 p.m., October 16, 1970\nK:\nHow is my Press Relations advisor?\nS:\nYou have taken over for me. That was the most fantastic\nshow I have ever seen; it not only reflected well on you, but also\non the President and the Administration.\nK:\nOh, really? You liked it? I couldn't judge it dispassionately.\nS:\nThe shots with the kids and the touch at the end were great.\nThat was a marvelous, profound statement.\nK:\nI was sorry it was not in my segment, but Mike Wallace explained\nthat it got more listeners that way, because they were tuned in to the\nnews. I didn't look too pompous?\nS:\nNo; it made you look human.\nBarbara\nHowar was great.\nK:\nShe was, but they didn't use her best line. They asked her\nhow she could go with someone of such a different political affiliation?\nHer reply was, \"Politics makes strange bed-fellows. \"\nBut my reason for calling is we have done a UN speech here.\nThe President thinks it should have your stylistic hand -- particularly\nto find a punch line. He hasn't seen it yet. I think it has a lot of six-\nsyllable punch lines.\nS:\nRay Price was doing that.\nK:\nThe sequence was: Ray Price, my shop, then back to Ray\nPrice. But he wants you to look at it. I understand you will be\ntraveling with him tomorrow. When can you look at it?\nS:\nCan you get somebody to bring it to my house tonight?\nK:\nAnd you would have it back to me in the morning? I have to\nhave it for him Sunday morning.\nS:\nAnd it needs punchlines and sharpening?\nK:\nYes; it will have it to you within an hour. Thanks for your\ncomments on the other thing. The President wants me to go on the\nDavid Frost show. Should I?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Bill Safire\n7:50 p. m., October 16, 1970\n- 2 -\nS:\nLay off for three months. You have had tremendous success\nwith this. If you suddenly go to David Frost, it can't be as good.\nK:\nDon't say things like that; you know my ego.\nS:\nI would hold off on Frost.\nK:\nI think you are right.\nS:\nUntil around Christmastime.\nK:\nIn time for the next Tet offensive. I can stagger on and,\ndrooling a bit, say... You know, in this show, I wanted to say, \"I\ncould never achieve all I do without Rogers' assistance.\"\nLater call: 8:10 p.m.\nK:\nBill, see if you can reduce the speech to 2600 words -- it is\npresently about 3000 words. Will you keep that in mind? But the\nlast two pages you can't touch. x You can cut all that garbage about\nracial XXX equality. I have Winston Lord sitting here; he is a bigot\nin reverse. He doesn't like white people.\nS:\nYou have my mouth watering -- I'm dying to see the speech.\nK:\nIf we can keep them awake until the last two pages, we will\nhave it made. It is a good rhetorical speech which is all he wanted.\nIt has a few substantive proposals.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nJoe Sisco/Mr. Kissinger\nOctober 16, 1970 -- late p.m.\nS:\nSorry to call SO late, but we just finished up.\nK:\nThat's okay; I appreciate your calling.\nS:\nNot at all. First, Henry, what was discussed was topics\nthat are familiar -- the Middle East, Indo-China, SALT, Berlin\nand the Seabeds was just touched upon very, very briefly.\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nOn the Middle East, Gromyko dwelled primarily on the\nnon-responsibility theme that they weren't responsible; they didn't\nagree to any of all this.\nK:\nThat is, they never agreed to the ceasefire, so it isn't their\nfault.\nS:\nSo none of it is their fault. I think you can summarize\nAll we got into.\nIt got into the question of we made clear the notion\nof going into the General Assembly is no damn good. The Secretary\nsaid that rectification was required, and each stuck to his own line,\nin other words. Nobody changed anybody's mind at this point, although\nwe agreed that in the next meeting on Monday, we would pursue the\ndiscussion further.\nOn Berlin, the Secretary made clear that this last proposal\nof theirs at this last meeting we didn't like the position they took, and\nagain the talk was quite inconclusive, largely the Secretary reiterating\nthe position in terms of how we see it. They, in turn, did the same.\nBut nothing very concrete -- no movement one way or the other.\nOn SALT, just: a very, very minimal reference -- merely\nlooking towards the beginning of the renewal of the talks and a mutual\nexpression that they would make progress.\nOn Vietnam, the Secretary started out by saying we had had\ngood worldwide reaction to our proposals; very good unity at home;\nand took note of the rejection thus far. He didn't ask the Russians to\ndo anything specific, but the conversation turned Gromyko turned\nthe conversation into pressing the Secretary on whether we agreed to\na coalition government or not. That if we agreed to a coalition govern-\nment, why maybe the Russians would be willing to be helpful, in effect.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nJoe Sisco/Mr. Kissinger\nOctober 16, 1970 -- late p.m.\n- 2 -\nS:\n(cont'd) The Secretary handled that, I thought, very well.\nHe said, \"Who knows what is meant by a coalition government? What\ndo you mean by a coalition government? The other side, in effect,\ndefines a coalition government to mean 'kick out the present crowd\nin South Vietnam, 111 and he concluded by saying that the President\nhad made it clear that whatever propositions that the two parties\nreally agreed to -- you know, if they get together, why we could.\naccept whatever they got together on.\nSo the whole summary of the evening is that there were no\nchanges on either side.\nK:\nWhat was the general mood?\nS:\nThe mood, I woul d say, not unfriendly; businesslike; frank,\nstraightforward. Every now and then, Gromyko showed some sensitivity\nover the fact that we had accused them of cheating; said it had caused\ndifficulties in their government. The Secretary responded that this\nhad caused difficulties in our government -- their cheating. We don't\nunderstand it. On Vietnam, he pressed the Secretary, I thought, very\nhard on the usual Communist strategy. He said, \"Do you include a\ncoalition government?' The Secretary said, \"We have said we don't\nlike the word coalition government; we don't know what it means; the\nother side's defined it in this way; but what we have said is we will\ngo along with any proposal the two really can get along with. 11 \"Then\nyou do bar a coalition government -- you know that kind of Communist\nstrategy of boring in. [End of tape]\n[Beginning of new tape]\nS:\nafter the meeting.\nK:\nDid you discuss that with them?\nS:\nYou mean on the announcement?\nK:\nYeah.\nS:\nNot in my presence that I recall but, in any event, what.\nK:\nWere they alone PART of the time?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nJoe Sisco/Mr. Kissinger\nOctober 16, 1970 -- late p.m.\n- 3 -\nS:\nThey got off to a corner part of the time, but, Henry, the\nPresident's plans are precisely what -- I mean the Secretary's plans\nare precisely those that were indicated by you and the President;\nnamely, that the Secretary would announce that after Monday night's\nmeeting and not before.\nK:\nRight, as long as the other\nS:\nThere's no misunderstanding on this.\nK:\nNo, no; I know you understand it. But do you think the\nRussians understand it?\nS:\nI'm sure that if they don't understand it at the moment, they\nwill because the Secretary's very clear about it.\nK:\nWell, they wouldn't announce it anyway.\nS:\nNo, they wouldn't. That'll work out all right.\nK:\nOkay. Now, how about your doing a little personal memo for\nme after the second meeting, laying out what you think the President\nshould say, at least in your area.\nS:\nWell, I think we ought to do, if it's agreeable, I think.\nand\nalso I'll get together with Martin. Frankly, we need to give you.\nWhat I'll do\nI will cough up and see that the Department as such\nsends forward a series of talking points on all the key subjects: Vietnam,\nthe Middle East, and on Berlin, and on SALT -- just those four.\nK:\nAnd as much of a summary of what actually was said\nS:\nAlthough we'll send you a cable on this and we'll send you\na cable on the Monday night meeting. That'll be plenty of time to digest\nthe two cables before Friday night's meeting.\nK:\nTerrific.\nS:\nAll right, Henry.\nK:\nGood, many thanks, Joe. You've been a good friend.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTextiles\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Professor Yoshida\nOctober 16, 1970 -- late p.m.\nK:\nHello.\nY:\nHello.\nK:\nHow are you?\nY:\nAll right; fine. And you?\nK:\nI'm fine.\nY:\nI'm sorry to disturb you at this hour.\nK:\nNo, that's all right. I just got home.\nY:\nMy friend is leaving home for the States tomorrow. I have\nspoken to him a few hours ago. I should like to convey the following\nmessage to you for your information and consideration. First, 2 my\nfriend is looking forward to meeting your friend, and at that meeting,\nhe does intend to raise the issue to your friend and wishes to discuss\nwith him of the problem the sincere hope that this time you can decide\nwhen a Solution ?\ncan be reached between them.\nK:\nIt's impossible unless you come with a different proposal.\npower to state.) in\nY:\nDefinitely; I have the/\nSo,/between, our specialists are\ngoing to be working very hard on that proposal.\nK:\nYes; you mean your specialists, or your specialists and our\nspecialists?\nY:\nCould I give you second part of his message?\nK:\nRight. I just want to understand whose specialists will be\ndoing the work.\nY:\nThat's right. For this is directed to my next point.\nK:\nI see; good.\nY:\nThis is a request from my friend. He is now sending to your\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Professor Yoshida\nOctober 16, 1970 -- late p.m.\n- 2 -\nMr.\nConfederation\ncountry, Uemura, the President of the of Economic\nOrganizations, the most powerful organization of all in this field --\nto meet with a number of popular business leaders in your country.\nThis gentleman is the highest business leader. He is here in my\ncountry often called the Prime Minister of Japanese business\ncommunity. For everybody knows about this in your country if you\nare interested in the issue.\nK:\nOh, yes, I know who he is.\nY:\nOh, I see. Who is to usually\nXXXXXX\nK:\nRight.\nthe\nY:\nAnd holding the key. Now, in fact, he is being sent as X special\nenvoy of my friend. He knows the facts, too, -- the possibility of\nmeeting acceptable solution for this particular issue and also plus\nother economic problems between them. He leaves here in four hours\ntime.\nK:\nHe what?\nY:\nHe leaves here for your country in four hours time from now.\nThis is a very quick, urgent decision, decided by my friend and his\n\"highest aides, 11 specifically Mr. M, Mr. A, and others.\nK:\nRight.\nY:\nHe is first to go to New York to meet some top business leaders\nof the\n-- Mr. Kendall and many others. And on to\nWashington, D. C.\nK:\nWhen will he be in Washington?\nY:\nNext week around October 21st or 22nd -- XXXX around that\ntime. This would be a few days earlier than the Stans Committee.\nWould it be possible for your friend to receive him and to hear his\nviews?\nK:\nI doubt it.\nY:\nYou doubt it.\nK:\nYes, because my friend will be traveling practically the whole time.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Professor Yoshida\nOctober 16, 1970 -- late p.m.\n- 3 -\nY:\nI see. In the view of my friend, it would be most helpful.\nK:\nYes, the trouble is my friend will not be in town.\nY:\nI see. Your friend would be in New York?\nK:\nNo.\nformal\nY:\nThis could be arranged if XXXXXXXX request for an appointment\nwould be made through the ordinary channel, and my friend feels that\nthis is the most helpful.\nK:\nYes. Also, I don't see what my friend could tell him that you\ndon't already know.\nY:\nI see.\nK:\nWe have already told Mr. Chase(?) and we've told everybody\nwhat we think. I mean what's the point of repeating it?\nY:\nI see. But he is the business leader, and we have to have the\ncooperation of the industry concerned. That is the real difficulty on\nthe part of my friend. If my friend comes here, he can give a directive --\nan order. That is very easy, but as long as it's called voluntary, we\nhave to have the cooperation; and now the business as a whole is very\nmuch inclined to cooperate with my friend.\nK:\nWell, our problem is that\nWhy don't you get them to request\nthe appointment, and I will see what I can do, but I'm not too optimistic.\nExcuse me a second; can you hold on a second? [A call came through\non the other line]\nK:\nHello.\nY:\nCertainly, we are thinking that we are going to do that through\nordinary\nchannels.\nyour\nAlready,\nour\nrepresentative at your place has been given the urgent instruction.\nK:\nWell, we will do what we can.\nY:\nBut, if this could be arranged before Mr.\nX\n's departure,\nmy friend would like to give further instructions.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Professor Yoshida\nOctober 16, 1970 -- late p.m.\n- 4 -\nK:\nWell, it cannot be arranged in four hours. It's the middle\nof the night here.\nY.\nBut, if there is some possibility,\nthen my friend would like to give him further detailed instructions.\nK:\nWell, we will do our best. I cannot promise it, but I will do\nmy best.\nY:\nFine; I'm sure my friend will greatly appreciate it if you do\nyour best. This gentleman is ready to go anywhere to meet Chief of\nState.\nK:\nAll right; I will do my best.\nY:\nCould I tell my friend that you will be doing your best, so that\nmy friend could give as much detailed directive and guidance to this\ngentleman before he leaves here in four hours time?\nK:\nYes.\nY:\nAnd formal request will be made through the ordinary channel.\nK:\nCorrect.\nis\nY:\nAll right; that's fine. In the meantime, if there/anything I can\nbe of any help because before my friend leaves tomorrow, I can reach\nhim almost instantaneously almost any time, would you please let me\nknow?\nK:\nWell, if anything comes up, I will let you know.\nY:\nPlease.\nK:\nI appreciate this very much.\nyou\nY:\nThank you very much and I hope that XX will somehow arrange.\nThis is a different nature.\nK:\nWell, I will do my best, but I must warn you, our people are\ngetting extremely impatient, and do think, in fact, that you really don't\nwant an agreement.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Professor Yoshida\nOctober 16, 1970 -- late p.m.\n- 5 -\nY:\nI see.\nK:\nIt would be very bad if this appointment were to lead to\nanother series of deadlocks.\nY:\nI see. Is that the feeling of your friend?\nK:\nThat's the feeling of my friend. He is, of course, delighted\nto see your friend, but he is frankly not eager to discuss this particular\nissue unless there is some prospect of agreement.\nY:\nOh, I see.\nK:\nAnd I will do my best to arrange the other appointment, but\nI hope that if this other appointment occurs, this man will have some\ninstructions with which he can talk.\nY:\nYes, yes. He is an economist; a mystic he is not.\nK:\nWell, my friend is not either.\nY:\nBut this is a big secret; he will only question of technical\nnature.\nK:\nYes, but my friend is not equipped to discuss the technical side.\nY:\nThat's true, but it is my understanding that since this\nXXXXXX ********X\nare going into a great exchange of\non the part of the\nJapanese business community as a whole.\nK:\nWell, we will do our best.\nY:\nTremendous pressure upon the industry concerned.\nK:\nWell, we will do our best, and I will let you know. You make\nthe request through regular channels.\nY:\nYes, certainly. Thank you very much. Nice getting in touch\nwith you again. I'll try to keep in touch with you.\nK:\nPlease do. Good-bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified."
}