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DOCUMENT
DOCUMENT
NUMBER
TYPE
SUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS
DATE
RESTRICTION
1
Tclcon
HAK
and
Alexis
Johnson
(1p.)
SANITIZED
2
Tolcon
per RAC 6/2/10 review
11/10/70ml
B
HAL and Richerd Helms CI
p)
REVIEW
6/12/2008
11/11/70
B
3
Telcon
HAle DECLASSIFIED POR'RAC
SANITIZED
PER RAC REVIEW
11/13/70
B
4
Tclcon
HAK and Alexis Johnson (2pp.)
6/12/2008
11/14/70
B
5
Telcon
HAK and the President 66 pp.)
11/14/70
B
DECLASSIFIED 6/12/2008
per RAC review
FILE GROUP TITLE
BOX NUMBER
Kissinger Transcripts Telephone Conversations
7
FOLDER TITLE
1970 10-16 Nov. 6
RESTRICTION CODES
A. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.
E. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or
B. National security classified information.
financial information.
C. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's
F. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law
rights.
enforcement purposes.
D. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy
G. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.
or a libel of a living person.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential and returned non-historical material.
DECLASSIFIED
NATIONAL ARCHIVE ursuant to Executive Order determined to be declassified. NA (4-85)
Telcon
Ambassador Lucet
11/10/70; 10:20 a. m.
L: I have heard that the President is going to Paris. That is wonderful;
we are deeply moved.
K: Both the President and the Secretary of State.
L: When do they leave?
K: We leave tomorrow morning. He will be in Paris by midnight.
We will give you the exact time. Then we leave right after the memorial
service. He would like to pay a courtesy call on President Pompidou
for 15 minutes to pay our respects.
L: And you too?
K: Yes.
L: So it would be the President, the Secretary of State, and yourself.
Thank you very much, Henry. That is very moving. We appreciate it
very much.
K: We like to think that President De Gaulle belongs to everybody a
little bit.
L: Is he leaving from Miami?
K: We haven't decided.
L: President DeGaulle's grandson, his name is Charles, is in the
United states now, an employee of an American company. He is in
New York. I don't request anything special. He would like to go
to Paris for his grandfather's funeral.
K: I will call you back on this other business on the grandson.
L: I am going to have a service here in Washington Thursday at
the same time. I am in touch with Mosbacher.
K: You know, of course, Charles that anything we can do you need
only call on us.
ms
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELECON
The President/Mr. Kissinger
10:30 a. m. , November 10, 1970
P:
What did you find out about the Mexicans?
K:
McBride is over there now.
on Saturday
P:
If they raise hell, set it at 1:00/ If they raise too much hell,
we will cancel. Friday at 1:00 is best for me. Then I will go to
Camp David Friday night -- I will need it now.
K:
We are pressing hard for that.
P:
Don't worry about clothes.
K:
It will be either morning coat or a dark business suit. We
have talked to Watson, who says they haven't decided finally yet.
P:
I will take both. Some people will damn well wear them. I
want to know what Pompidou will wear. Tell them the President is
prepared to wear a morning coat if they are. They may feel they shouldn't
ask. DeGaulle would have liked it dressed up.
K:
He liked simplicity, but also formality.
P:
Remember he wore his uniform to both Presidents Kennedy's
and Eisenhower's funerals. Say I am prepared to wear a morning coat.
K:
We will make sure all Americans are ready either way.
P:
I think we should arrive in Paris on the ground at midnight.
We can go to bed as soon as we arrive. I don't know when Bruce can
see me.
K:
You can get 15 minutes with him, but we have no real business.
It's not appropriate anyway.
P:
It's probably better not to see him; it might leave a bad taste
in people's mouths.
K:
I don't think that.
P:
Yes, it would -- the sensitivity of it.
K:
You could shake hands at the Ambassador's residence for 10
minutes next morning before you go to the service; go to the service;
make a courtesy call on Pompidou and then leave unless there's a
reception. If there is one, you could go for 30 minutes and leave from
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
The President/Mr. Kissinger
10:30 a. m., November 10, 1970
- 2 -
there. Then there would be more focus that you paid your respects
to De Gaulle and then came back, doing no business in Europe.
P:
The Bruce thing should be very low-key.
K:
It should be entirely social -- paying respects to the Ambassador.
P:
And then we come back as soon as we can.
K:
The time is six hours later, so it would be 2:00 by your inward
clock. The French Ambassador called. De Gaulle's grandson is in
New York, and Lucet hinted we could take him over with us.
P:
Fine. He should go.
K:
It would be a nice gesture.
P:
Invite him to come down and go with us.
K:
Will we leave from Key Biscayne?
P:
No, I'm flying to Washington. I'll be prepared with a morning
coat and business suit. The only reason I raise this point is because
dress means more to the Europeans than to Americans.
K:
The way you put it is exactly right -- you will wear whatever
the President wears. I will get on that immediately.
P:
The other question which Haldeman raises is whether we stay
at the Embassy or check in at a hotel. The embassy would mean a
lot to Watson.
K:
The Embassy doesn't have much room. There would be room
for you and one staff member, but not Bill and all the rest of the party.
I think it would be a nice gesture. Why don't I talk to Watson and
see how he feels.
P:
The hotel has advantages also. I could just check in and go to
bed.
The advantage of the residence
K:
Watson has been an outstanding ambassador -- much better than
anyone thought.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
The President/Mr. Kissinger
10:30 a. m., November 10, 1970
- 3 -
P:
Put it right to him. I think I should not have a staff member.
Is there room for me, the Secretary and the valet. Don't you think
the Ambassador should have the Secretary of State stay with him?
K:
Not necessarily. You should have one staff member for
communications if there is an emergency. Let me talk to Watson.
P:
We can assume the Mexican for Friday?
K:
If humanly possible, it will be Friday.
P:
What's the matter with McBride?
K:
I will get a report and call you back, and then we will know
exactly where ;it stands.
P:
Say I invite him for lunch in the family quarters of the White
House at 1:00 on Friday. Then we can have a meeting afterwards.
K:
I will be back to you, Mr. President.
lds
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Secretary Rogers
11/10/70 10:38 a. m.
R: I'm calling to see about going down to Florida. I was going to go
down tonight, but I'll try now gxcx to go down tonight. I wondered if you
wanted to come with me.
K: He's leaving from up here now. Are you still going down?
R: Oh no. I was just going down to meet up with him.
K: No, he's coming up here tonight. Thank you for suggesting it
Otherwise I would have been happy to go with you. The Ehheverria thing
is set for Friday, and over the weekend, he'll go to Camp David.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Ambassador Watson
11/10/70 10:54 a. m.
K: I have a number of minor questions. First, Walters is coming
back with the advance party.
W: That's great, wonderful.
K: Second, where to you want the President to stay?
W: Well, where does he want to stay? I'd be delighted to put him up
at bur house. How many will be with him? You and the Secretary?
K: Yes, and also a valet for him?
W: Bien sur.
K: Why don't we do that?
W: I think it would be much calmer. They are building an underground
parking lot in front of the Creon. It's just during the day, but it's awfully
noisy.
K: Then it will be the President, and Secretary, a valet, and I staying
with you.
W: Okay if the valet is on the third floor?
K: Sure.
W: We can put the President in the room where you stayed. Have you
next door and the Secretary in the Lindbergh room. Any ladies?
K: No.
W: Is just one room all right for the President?
K: Yes, it's just for one night.
W: Tomorrow night?
K: Yes.
W: Will you need a meal?
K: A light snack maybe. Maybe a snack and something to drink.
W: I will have something just in case. We are very flexible. X
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Ambassador Watson
11/10/70 10:54 a. m. page 2
K: I have recommended to him that he stay with you.
W: I said we can be very flexible and I'd like to put up anybody
we can.
K: Let's settle on this then. Any word on dress yet?
W: No. If it isaht too much trouble, I suggest that you bring a alark
business suit plus a morning coat.
K: The President will want to wear whatever Pompidou wears.
W: I hope to find that out before you leave. My contact at the Palace
just called to say that Pompidou is deeply touched by the President's
gesture and what he is doing, and they are urging us to kreep the delegation as
small as possible. I said it would be the President, the Secretary of State,
and Dr. Kissinger.
K: That's exactly right.
W: The Germans tried to bring in ten.
K: No, that's exactly right.
W: Do you want any appointments?
K: He would like to see only Pompidou for a courtesy call.
W: All right. How about you and Rogers?
K: I don't think we ought to do any business.
W: That's my instinct, but I wanted to make sure.
K: It should be a tribute to deGaulle and nothing else. One thing we
should do is shake hands with Bruce for 10 minutes. Can he come by?
W: Yes.
K: We should XXX make it very short, so it is clear that this isn't business.
W: Okay, when do you expect to leave?
K: Are they giving a reception afterward?
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Ambassador Watson
11/10/70 10:54 a. m. page 3
W: I don't know yet. They are in an absolute tizzy, but that's a
question I have in.
K: The thought is that
the mass will probably last an hour or
whatever. The thought is that he will pay a courtesy call on Pompidou
and leave. Or pay a courtesy call on Pompidou, to the reception, if there
is one, for 15 minutes, and then leave. The whole idea is that we are
paying tribute to deGaulle. We are there for no other business than pay-
ing tribute to deGaulle.
W: I will stress this if we get any questions from the dress.
K: At the moment I am trying to murder the Press Secretary so he
doesn't take two hundred people.
W: I've gotten a request for 100 press accomodations.
K: I want to knock that down. Don't you think that's too heavy on press?
W: Yes, with Air Force Once and Air Force Two and advance planes and
a press plane, that's quite a few people.
K: I take it the widow will be in Colombe?
W: Yes.
K: How far is that?
W: About two hours by car.
K: How about choppers; I don't suppose they would be available.
W: I'm sure we could get some down from Germany.
K: I was wondering about choppering fo Colombe, paying respects and
then leaving.
W: I can check.
K: But don't tell everyone.
W: I won't mention this possibility to anyone.
K: But I would like to know the logistics.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Ambassador Watson
11/10/70 10:54 a.m. page 4
W: They have announced that no one will be there officially, but I
will find out the logistics. I am sure they could get a chopper from Germany.
K: Okay. Many thanks.
W: One other small thing. Would it be possible for me to hitch a ride
back to the U.S. with you?
K: I don't know, but why don't you assume yes. I think the plane will
very probably be emply until the hangers-on start xxpeaxion operating.
W: I can fly back commerically if I have to -- it's a personal thing
with my children. They really want to keep it small as far as Notre Dame
is concerned.
K: I understand.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telcon
The President
10 Nov 70; 11:00 a. m.
K: The Echeverria thing is set for Friday.
P: One o'clock. Great. They are probably delighted.
K: They are happy. I have just talked to Watson. He had a message
from Pompidou to you to tell you how moved he is by this account of your
coming over and how much it means to them. They have not yet decided about
the dress.
P: Did you tell Watson
?
K: That you want to wear whatever hx Pompidou wears.
P: Tell him I was prepared to wear morning coat. Because he ought to
wear a morning coat.
K: I put it exactly that way to them. But that you will be guided by whatever
Pompidou wears.
P: I rather think the French cynicism will be moved by this.
K: Offcourse. He recommends that you, the Secretary of State and I
stay with him. He doesn't have a suite, but he has a large bedroom for
you. But no sitting room.
P: I don't give a damn about sittingrooms. What does he have for Rogers?
K: The same thing. He has three large guest bedrooms, but none of them
cut into a suite.
P: How close will the hotel be, SO I can get in touch with the staff?
K: The hotel is about 10 minutes drive, but you know Paris traffic.
P: No problem. Everybody else will be at the hotel?
K: Yes. The other possibility is to have Rogers in the hotel and to have
Haldeman with you.
P: He doesn't have any trouble. (Talked on another phone to Haldeman).
Bob says he will stay at the hotel. Be sure you put in telephone communi-
cations with the hotel. And mentin there must be a room for my valet.
K: There is a room for the valet.
P: Does he understand when we come in we want to go right to bed?
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
The President, 11:00 am, 10 Nov
2
K: Yes.
P: How does Bruce work out?
K: He will ask Bruce to come in for a 10-minute courtesy call in the
morning. I told him it won't be more than 10 minutes. That I think
will work very well.
P: Does he anticipate that we will call on Pompidou?
K: I have asked him to request it and he says that will definitely happen.
He says the chaos there is hard to imagine so we may have to be patient.
P: That is your problem. But as soon after the funeral as possible.
They haven't decided on the reception yet, but they will have to have one.
K: Show up at the reception and go right from there.
P: They know we are damn busy.
K: That is why we are having the Echeverria thing on Friday.
P: Has that been announced yet?
K: No, but we will announce that immediately.
P: Say we are grateful to Echeverria for changing his plans, and that the
President is going to the memorial service.
K: The one thing Watson pled for is to keep the thing as austere as possible.
As little press as possible.
P: Press! Shit, I don't want any press.
K: About one hundred are coming. We have been asked to book 100 rooms.
P: We don't bring the press. We will just try to cut it down. We will
do our best to keep the press down.
ms
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Secretary Rogers
11/10/70 11:10 a. m.
K: I'm sorry to keep plaguing you but I wanted to keep you posted.
R: We're taking off from Atlanta Georgia?
K: Don't joke like that -- somebody may see some press value in it.
XX If it's all right with you, You, the President and I will stay with Watson.
It's K: a little cramped and there are no sitting rooms, but we thought it
might be the best arrangement. And the official delegation, if it's all right
with you, will be the President, you, Watson and me. Watson called with
a lot of technical stuff; =he feels this is the fight signexxxx size delegation.
The Germans wanted to send 10 and the French had conniptions.
R: I think one of these things, such a short thing, doesn't make all
that much difference.
K: No.
R: What time are we leaving?
K: That's not settled yet. Ziegler wanted 100 press people over
ther and I think that's insanity. Don't you?
R: I don't know enough about it. The important thing is to get in and
out. Otherwise we'll be getting all eerts of political questions about who
did you see
K: He wants to go in, go to sleep, go to the service, make a call on
Pompidou and leave. And I don't think either of us should have appointments.
Don't you agree?
R: a don't want one unless it means something. I don't want to have an
appointment just to be having one. It's getting where
we ought to be able
to just go to a funeral and enjoy it.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Ambassador Lucet
11/10/70 ca. 11:15 a. m.
K: We will be delighted to take the greand graddson.
L: Thank you very much.
K: We will be delighted to take him on Xx Air Force One. We'll
be leaving from Washington. So if you can get him down here.
L: What time will you be leaving?
K: I think we leave at 10:00 or 11:00.
L: I will tell him to be in this city this afternoon.
K: Right.
L: Thaink Thank you very much. That's very kind of the President and
yourself.
K: And whom should my staff be in touch with about details so I don't
have tok keep bothering you.
L: Jacques Leprette, my number two.
K: Good. and does he want to come back with us?
L: I don't think so, no.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telcon
Amb. Watson
11/10/70; 1:00 p.m.
W: I haven't been very helpful on the dress. Nobody knows. They are
still meeting about it. You should bring both the cutaway as well as the
dark business suit.
K: OK.
W: The other item you asked about - it is about 200 kilometers ride by
chopper. I found by chance there was a pad right near the fellow's house.
K: Anyway, about one hour to fly there.
W: I am not sure whether it should be done, but will try to get some
better feel.
K: My judgment would be to drop it.
W: Mine too.
K: I haven't raised it with the President, so why don't we just drop it.
The logistics of moving whole operation there and back would be too much.
W: And then too, the family will be in some degree of shock about the
whole thing.
K: One other thing - will you make sure De Gaulle's grandson has
transportation over there. We are bringing him over on Air Force One.
W: Yes. That is very helpful to know. Anything else?
K: I have talked with the President. He accepts with pleasure staying at
your place, and so does the Secretary of State.
W: That is wonderful. We will act accordingly and be in touch as to
when you are getting in. I will be at the airport.
K: He will not want to do a hell of a lot when he gets in. You might have
a little snack ready just in case. Keep in mind he will want to go to bed
right quickly.
W: We will play it very cool. All he has to do is tell us. You have probably
heard that Kosygin and Heath are coming.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telcon-Watson-11/10/70; 1:00 p.m.
2
K: No, I haven't.
W: That is definite now. I am delighted that you got there first. Have
you cut down the press?
K: We have tried to but these people charter their own plane and we
can't keep them away.
W: The logistics of the thing would be tough, and furthermore they all
have correspondents here.
K: Have you talked to Bruce?
W: I have told him to stand by around 9:00.
K: From 9:00 to 9:30.
W: I can detect your fine hand in this, Henry, because it is all working
out so well. You are great.
ms
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
No Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/06/02 : NLN-TELCONS-7-6-121-5
TELECON
Ambassador Johnson/Mr. Kissinger
2:30 p.m., November 10, 1970
25X1
K:
That sounds reasonable. I don't think we have a basis for
promising a non-existent standstill.
J:
I have proposed to hold them off on this basis for the timebeing
but to keep our right open. What time do you leave tomorrow?
K:
I guess 10:00 or 11:00.
J: I'll see you when we get back.
ON-FILE NSC RELEASE
K:
Can you come by at 6:00?
INSTRUCTIONS APPLY
J:
I will try to get by before I go to a 7:00 dinner.
lds
State Dept. review completed
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
document has OrdeR/13526 and
Telecon
Dwight Chapin
10/10/70 3:25 p.m.
K: How eager are you to add these two? We notified the French that it
would be only four.
C: I was waiting for a recommendation from you.
K: My feeling is
I don't mind dropping out myself, so it isn't a
question of personalities. But it's not appropriate to have three White House
staffers, the Secretary of State and the President.
C: The question comes up that since they are two cabinet members and
they are going to be there anyway, is it not inappropriate not to have them
come?
K: Whose question?
C: Bob's. But I don't think there will be a problem on it.
K: The French have asked us to keep the number very small.
C: Okay, we'll keep it like it is now - - the President, Rogers, you and
Watson.
K: It is better not to have to go back to the Franch. It is now 10:00 at
night there and they have already been given that request.
C: Okay, no problem. We'll leave it as it is. Any word on the Pompidou
appointment?
K: No.
C: Do they know we want it as early as possible?
K: Yes, and I will get a line set up between the Creon and the
Ambassador's residence for Bob.
C: We'll take care of that.
K: Okay. You do it, much better. What time are we leaving tomorrow?
C: 10:55 from the South Lawn.
K: Right, and you know the graddson is with us?
C: That was very nice of you.
K: The President approved it.
C: I know Henry.
Thank
you.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Walt Rostow
11/10/70 3:30p.m.
R: I know you are busy.
K: Not at all.
R: Reason I'm calling, President Johnson has been approached in
confidence by Bui Diem as to whether he would be prepared to receive
Ky at the end of the month after he has been in Washington. The Pres-
ident's response was this: 1) he would be glad to do it, but only if it
is regarded as a good idea by the President and 2) if you thought it a
good idea, he wants to know the points President Nixon wants to under-
line with Ky. He wants to make no move whatsoever except as President
Nixon wants it done.
K: Aren't you nice. I will ask the President, may I?
R: Sure. Do you have just another minute? Let me pass along
I have been to London. On Vietnam I suggest you give some thought in
light of inclightx intelligence coming from Hanoi, that they are having
some difficult morale problems on the field as well as at home, that you
give a real push in psychological warfare. I get word that for the first
time in the whole thing leaflets saying go home, work the farms, grow
some rice, raise some kids that's something the army in the field and
the people at home may be ready to listen to.
K: Let me take a look at that.
R: Okay.
K: Nice to talk to you.
[At end of conversation with Rostow, Mr. Kissinger turned away from phone
and said "David, make sure I do something about that. "]
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telcon
Professor Hoffmann
11/10/70; 7:30 p.m.
K: Do you want to join the delegation?
H: That is what I was calling about, literally. Are you going?
K: Yes,
H: Is there any way one could join?
K: No. It is not my decision. We have turned down Senators. It is
an intriguing thought though. Do you mean the delegation, or just to
get to Paris.
H: Frankly, I hadn't thought of that distinction.
K: It is absolutely impossible because you know we have turned down
generals and wartime associates. The President just wanted 4 people
there. But you have more claim to it than most of us in fact, than
all of us.
H: Well.
K: Did you get my letter?
H: I did and I wrote to you yesterday.
K: If we can find some way without setting a precedent. There is no
way they could come down?
H: Half of them could. I am trying to scrape some X money for half of
them. I don't think I could get more.
K: If you can get money for half, I can get money for the others. I have
the money (paraphrased: but this is a delicate matter.) Let me take
a check. (speaking again of the trip to Paris) I think it is practically
out of the question. I hope you and Inga will come down soon for that
dinner.
H: I hope so. It will be a great pleasure.
K: Fine. Goodbye.
ms
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELECON
Mr. Kissinger/Amb. Sullivan
8:05 p.m., November 10, 1970
K:
LBJ called me and said that Ky had requested to see him.
S:
Yes.
K:
And wanted guidance. What do we tell him?
S:
I see no harm, it would be after he sees President Nixon.
K:
Think it would ba a cheap thing to pay.
S:
Two things, (1) definitely could not see him before he could see
President Nixon and (2) would have to work it out on his own. He
apparently called down there
K:
Right.
S:
The weekend after Thanksgiving, after he had been to Washington.
Have you talked at all with him?
K:
The President?
S:
Yes.
K:
No, but I will.
S:
Have you talked with the Vice President?
K:
No, but I will, right now in fact.
S:
I got a call from Kent Crane urging
K:
I got that meeting cancelled.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Mr. Kissinger/Director Helms
November 11, 1970 9:45 a. m.
(paraphrased)
jlj
K: Dick, I have now read your paper and I am restive (?) about it. I
do not want some xhxixgx thing foreordained conclusion.
H: Henry, I am getting fed up with this and so are my men.
K: It is a simple problem.
45 goddamn battalions in to an area
that didn't exist and they were hidden there until the standstill ceasefire
zone was announced and then they were moved. The ceasefire was
announced they were brought out and moved. On the face of it is an
absurdity.
H: What do you want me to do about it?
K: I want a statement of the facts.
H: What facts?
K: If we are going to have
I will take this to the President and
find out what evidence.
H: But then all I get back from you is this Haig nonsense about no evidence
that I am sleeping with my secretary
K:
was not hidden in there
H: Do you want a paper directed solely to this point?
K: The evidence. Soirees (?), airplane hangers. Evidence that anything
MXIXSX of that magnitude was moved into that area. I
would
DECLASSIFIED
like to get it this way or I will get you all together again and we will go
E.O. 13526, Section 3.5
PER RAC REVIEW 6/12/2008
JHS NARA, Date 8/20/2012
through the whole bloody drill again. Making your little speeches.
H: Henry, I am very sorry about this. I was told that all you wanted was
By
paper
agreement about winkations what the violations were.
K: Next phase
may have been
could have been
in that area
(Mr. Kissinger focusing on something Gen. Haig was saying and not really
talking to Director Helms.) I have got another memorandum from Dave
Packard that makes another issue of this. I am concerned about the
integrity of the intelligence that is going to the President.
45 SAM
battalions moved into the standstill zone were hidden and after the ceasefire
were brought out and moved. I suppose then you will tell me that 114
empty flatcars were moved into the standstill zone. I have to have the
opinion that everytime I get a memorandum from Defense I can count on
it that it will be leaked sooner or later.
H: You will have a paragraph or two by the time you get back from Paris. I am
now with the problem and you will get something from us.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Cp. 1 of 13
No Objection To Declassification 2008/06/12 NLN-TELCONS-7-6-123-3
TELCON
Helms/Kissinger
10:10 a. m. 11/13/70
H: How was the trip?
K: Good.
H: I'm glad.
K: The only thing I want with that paper is to have it signed by someone to give
it status.
H: Is it satisfactory?
K: It's what I wanted.
25X1
K: I am interested.
PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY REVIEW OF NSC EQUITY IS REQUIRED
JHS 8/20/2012
No Objection To Declassification 2008/06/12 : NLN-TELCONS-7-6-123-3
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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Mr. Kissinger/U.A. Johnson
November 13, 1970 12:05 p.m.
(paraphrased)
jlj
J: I have a couple of things Henry. The Ky visit. It has been set of that he
will tour military installations. The Embassy worked it out with Defense but
Laird now said they would not pick up the tab for it.
K: I have already overruled that.
J: Have you seen the text on Cuba.
K: Yes, I like that. I think that is good. I talked to the Secretary on the
plane yesterday, I don't know if you have talked to him or not, and I just gave
him the gist of it. I did not have that exact text but we did talk about it.
J: I worked it out after we discussed it. Frankly, I had a little trouble with
working out the wording. In connection with that. Fascell is pressing for
hearings and wants an answer by Monday.
K: What do you think?
J: I think we have to go up. Question of who does it. I think the finger
points at me but that is something we can work out.
K: You won't get any argument from me.
J: Ben Wells was around to see me yesterday. Times is doing a
Cienfuegos article. Gist of it was we have been taken in badly and we
built up the story and took credit for getting them out and now they are
back in - whole thing back. He had the fact that I sent a memorandum to
you on the subject.
K: When in hell did you send a memorandum to me.
J: Quite awhile ago. Only I and Ray Gartoff (phonetic) knew about it over here
at State and you over there. Only the three of us knew that it existed.
K: Oh yes. WX You drew it up on a contingency basis and then we did not use
it.
J: It actually never came about. He said they had from defense that a Y-class
submarine had put in to Cienfuegos.
K: That's not true. A Yankee class submarine?
J: That's what he said. I told him before you go to press on it you better
check with DOD and make sure that that tender is still there. I made it sound
like there was a question whether it would still be there or not.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON
Rogers/Kissinger
12:20 pm
11/13/70
K: I just want to see how you feel.
R: Larengitis and a bad cold. Standing out by the Cathedral and getting wet
didn't help.
K: Snd when you can't change your clothes for 10 hours.
R: And the plane is cole. I am a little contagious and I didn't £ want to
expose anyone. I know the Mexican lunch will be very substantive. The
President will think I made this up.
K: I don't know what he will talk about.
R: I talked to McCloskey about Cuba.
K: Alex had a xxxxxxx message which we agreed to.
R: McCloskey ????. . Anything you agree to is fine with me.
K: OK, Bill. Hope you feel better.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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TELCON
Haldeman/Kissinger
12:20 pm
11/13/70
H: On the list of ambassadors to be replaced, the name of Ed Martin did not
appear. The President is disturbed. Anything done about him?
K: Not to my knowledge. This is only preliminary. He has done nothing in
his present incarnation. I know it's on his past perkx performance.
H: You haven't put anything in motion on that.
K: About a year ago I told Elliot Richardson we wanted him moved but nothing
has happened.
H: Is he an ambassador?
K: Yes, in Geneva to OECD or something.
H: OK.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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Mr. Kissinger/Attorney General Mitchell
November 13, 1970 5:40 p.m.
(paraphrased)
jlj
K: John, I first of all did not know that you had been invited to this meeting.
We only had one piddling item. $25, 000 item.
M: Could take that out of petty cash.
K: I didn't realize that you were waiting. There is no meeting that I conduct
that you are not welcome at. We would have kept you waiting by bringing you
into the Middle East meeting. I am very sorry.
M: Henry, that's quite all right.
K: Anyone as busy as you are who is nice enough to agree to come to our
meetings should not be treated this way.
M: Well, I was able to get back and get on with my work.
K: If there is ever a meeting going on you are invited.
M: I guessed you solved all the problems in the Middle East today.
K: No, well, we are going to wait so we can peak for the 1972 election.
Something that good should not be wasted.
M: There is a lot in that.
K: John, my apologies.
M: Henry, it was nice of you to call. It was unnecessary but I appreciate it.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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TELCON
Amb. Crnobrnja/kissinger
5:50 pm
11/13/70
K: You are up to something no good.
C: Definitely. How are you? Very busy?
K: Always. khawen** Even if I weren't I wouldn't tell you because you would
report to Belgrade and they would think I am no longer XK influential.
C: I received two days ago a news reel about the President's visit to Yugoslavia.
I saw it and it's not long. I am sure the President and Madame would like it.
What's the best way to hand it over? I have no special request. I only
think that I would like is that the President is pleased.
K: Let me discuss it with them. We will work out a suitable means. Let
me not guess. Then you would find out my advice is not always taken and I
couldn't take it.
C: As a news reel it is done by our motion picture company which regularly
turns out news of the week and it's sent to the cinema theaters all over Yugoslavia.
It's normal so the President may value it more. It lasts about 10-12 mins.
K: Am I in it?
C: I think so. Modestly but you are.
K: I get the point. I will immediately take action and get back to you next
week. Very thoughtful of you. There's something wrong with you if you deal
with me and give me something. Usually I loose my shirt with you.
C: I cannot recall. I think its two way traffic and it's as if should be.
K: You will hear from me on Tues.
C: On Wed. I am going to Boston to compete with you at Harvard.
K: At least you are from a socialist country which makes it safer for you.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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Telecon
Secretary Laird
11/13/70 ca. 6:00 p.m.
L: Tell me something
Stennis wants
I've got a letter
here
been having a problem on it. In the appropriations act that
passed last year there was language that we cannot useground
troops in Laos, in Thailand. When he puts the bill out, he feels it will
save him considerable difficulties and he feels he has it from the Pres-
ident and does not feel it will cause any problems if he adds
the one word "Cambodia. 11 This causes no problem except
K: How about various operations like Storm House?
L: Storm House and Prairie Fire
we interpret that as not
applying. I have testified that it is not a use of ground troops. They
The amendment only applied to massive movements of ground forces.
We've gone right ahead as far as Laos is concerned.
K: The President never committed himself to not going back in. He
doesn't intend to, but he doesn't want the other side to think we won't.
L: I would like not to take a position on this, but if Stennis has to,
let him do it on his own.
K: I hate to txix give them that much assurance always.
L: My problem is Stennis feels he can't win on that thing in the
Senate and it may come out applying to other operations. I don't want to
broaden it. The language would be exactly as it is: Laos and Thailand
but it adds Cambodia.
K: And it prohibits us on
L: "Combat ground troops. 11 Because of the word "combat" we
interpret it not to apply to intelligence personnel
K: Let me check it wit the President. I have a call in to him now.
L: I don't want to say yes or no to Stennis. He feels we will get more
restrictive language though if we don't let him handle it.
K: Let me check with the President.
L: We went ahead with a fairly strong statement.
K: Good. Has it been picked up?
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Secretary Laird
11/13/70 ca. 6:00 p.m. page 2
L: It's on AP.
K: Good.
L: Did you have a chance to look over that private memo.
K: Yes. I think it would be a good idea if you cleaned it up a bit --
taking out the parts that are personal to the President -- andthen put it to
other principals.
L: That's all right with me.
K: I have read it with the greatest interest. It's a very thoughtful
paper.
L: Has the Presdient
K: It's in the President's reading. He would have read it in Key
Biscayne, but the deGaulle thing threw everything off. Let's give him a
week to go over it.
L: Okay.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Mr. Yoshida/Mr. Kissinger
November 13, 1970
6:25
p.m.
jlj
(paraphrased)
Y: I should like to give you the following message from my friend. It is now
8:30 a. m. here. He is holding a final meeting this morning in a half an hours
time. He will make a decision. Then instructions will be sent and our counter
proposal in concrete terms will be sent to our permanent representative in 6
hours time. It was to be done yesterday. Mr. M has been working day and
night. My friend and his associates have made the decision to go ahead without
the consent of the industry.
K: What does it mean without consent of the industry?
Y: Government will propose
K: But can they implement this without the industry.
Y: They will have to be. By legal means. That is the political price he will
have to pay. Last night Mr. M had a final meeting with our industry. Plan
drafted by Mr. M. Now my friend decided that it cannot wait any longer and
my friend will exercise his power to make an agreement, including legal
means so that the industry will have to go along. It will be no longer
voluntary. Forced course by the Government. Industry will have to follow
This is the political price my friend will have to pay. In a free society like
ourselves industry has a strong voice.
if they do not listen there will be
no agreement between us but my friend has made a decision.
K: That is very courageous.
Y: We will have a counter proposal for you which our
probably early
tomorrow morning your time. It will not be exactly as you proposed but it is
now very clear. My own fxidx friend and M do
K: Is this final or is it something we can discuss?
Y: Certainly we can discuss it. And then we can come to terms with you.
The timing on this. They would like to get something by Sunday night or
Wednesday (couldn¹t hear this word clearly) night at the latest. My friend
asked me to tell you that he was sorry that the presentation of our counter
proposal was delayed by one day but in 6 hours time it will be presented.
I hope that you expert will be prepared to work the entire weekend.
K: I will call them immediately.
Y: This will not be the final one. Certainly to be discussed between us. The
press had leaked
it has to take the form of negotiations. But my friend
is determined and determination of my friend is very firm so is the attitude
of Mr. M. He said that in public we will reach an agreement.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
-2-
K: Let me get in touch with Mr. Flanigan.
Y: Will you do that. I should be getting in touch with you again. I am anxious
to know the reactions of Mr. F to our counter proposal as soon as possible.
K: I will get in touch with you. Thank you for calling. Goodby.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELECON
Mr. Kissinger/The President
7:19 p. m., November 13, 1970
P:
Henry, a late report today.
K:
I have a few relatively minor things I wanted to run over with you.
P:
Okay.
H:
The North Vietnamese shot down a reconnaissance plane inside North
Vietnamese today.
P:
Has it been reported?
K:
Laird made a very strong statement today.
P:
???
K:
Don't do it now until that other operation goes into effect. I have
talked to Moorer about it.
P:
What?
K:
It's part of that whole sequence of events we are going to hit up and
P:
Hit everything, the seven choke points and Binh. [We are going to get
the blame anyhow, we may as well get the blame for everything. ] We
don't want to fool around, I'm not going to fool around anymore.
K:
Hit every supply dump in that area.
P:
Otherwise it is not a new signal, it is an old signal.
K:
This can be very starchy. The press is starting to play around again
with the Cienfuegos [thing and the fact that the
are still there. ]
I am going to meet with Dobrynin in the Map Room again tomorrow.
P:
I wonder why they did that.
K:
Just trying to prove
going out, there's no sense in it anyway.
They are a petty bunch.
P:
They are pretty small.
K:
If they had gotten it over four weeks ago
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELECON
[paraphrased]
Mr. Kissinger/The President
7:19 p.m., November 13, 1970
P:
Whether they get it out or we put them
o
K:
I would like to convey something like that, if you agree.
P:
You do it.
K:
Paul Hoffman, head of
P:
He's the 95-year old, isn't he ?
K:
Yes, U Thant is thinking of reappointing him.
P:
Never.
K:
Alex Johnson suggested David Bell might be a good man.
P:
He is a carry-over from the Kennedy Administration, I don't want
anyone from the Kennedy Administration. Goddamm, Alex knows
better than that.
K:
He just thought he might be a good man since he was one of those
considered for the Under Secretary position that Eliot Richardson now has.
P:
I'm not taking any hold overs.
K:
There is the Portugese Foreign Minister, will you see him?
P:
I will not see him.
K:
???
P:
Rogers raised it with me too, and I will not see him under any
circumstances, don't raise it with me again Henry. I won't see the
Portugese Foreign Minister, nor the Spanish, nor the
or any
of the others.
K:
I just wanted to raise it with you.
P:
Don't raise it with me again, you've got to have rules and I've got
the rule and I won't see them.
K:
All right, okay, Mr. President.
P:
Did you make the call to France?
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELECON
Mr. Kissinger/The President
7:19 p.m., November 13, 1970
K:
Because of the difference in time, I haven't been able to but I will
have the report for you by tomorrow afternoon.
P:
When you see Dobrynin, take a hard line because we can't fool around
with him now. We are going to know this affects our relations right
down to the core.
K:
Right, ????.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELECON
[synopsis]
Mr. Kissinger/Peter Flanigan
7:45 p. m., November 13, 1970
K:
Peter, where are you?
F:
On the Florida/Georgia border shooting birds.
K:
I'm glad I know someone from the upper class.
F:
What about the Textiles? Wanted to make sure that they approved of
what we proposed.
K:
They are meeting right now to make their counter-proposal and will
reach here by morning.
F:
They were hoping they would be having a proposal tonight.
K:
Here's the problem, they want to put before me, they are meeting at
6 o'clock and they are going to have their proposal in about six hours.
They will not be able to get the agreement of their industry and this
will not be their final proposal which I assume will not be acceptable.
Something definitely by Monday night.
F:
Here I've been sitting on my butt for three weeks and they come back
and want to have it in two days
K:
They have to have legislation, it can't be gotten voluntary. ???
F:
I told the Ambassador today and I have a date with him for 3 p.m. on
Sunday (or Monday -- couldn't understand).
K:
Well, come back at 3:00 p.m. on Monday and say screw them. I just
wanted you to know and be aware of what's going on. Don't use that
Irish temper on me Flanigan, I have an Irish girlfriend and
F:
I didn't mean it with regard to you but I meant it with regard to them.
K:
The trouble with you is that you are a racist.
F:
What?
K:
You don't like yellow people.
F:
What do you think?
K:
I think it is outrageous, if the thing leaks out and they have to wait
another two weeks, that is okay. (?)
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELECON
Mr. Kissinger/Peter Flanigan
[synopsis]
7:45 p. m., November 13, 1970
F:
???
K:
They are going to screw us anyway face it so they can't get it through
their parliment.
F:
If they want to meet on a weekend and I meet them on Sunday, it will
have to be okay.
K:
What are you doing anyway?
F:
I'm down here with Bill Candle shooting birds
[Discussion followed about shooting birds, getting Mr. Kissinger to
drink and sell pepsi colas]
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELECON
Mr. Kissinger/Prof. Stanley Hoffman
& Mrs. Hoffman
8:27 p.m., November 13, 1970
H:
Henry, how are you?
K:
Stanley, I never got back to you that evening.
H:
Didn't expect you to.
K:
[We were] limited to four people on each delegate.
H:
You are done and already back.
K:
It was very beautifully done.
H:
It was on 7 a. m. American time, aren't you completely pooped?
K:
I am very tired. It was beautifully done, when the people were walking
down
.
Appears to have been totally spontaneous.
H:
He fully deserved it.
K:
The
was completely desolate.
H:
Why did they have to put Pompidou on that special chair?
K:
Don't know, certainly when you think how many people try to get along.
I looked around at the statesman and there wasn't one that would have
been mourned the way he was. We took DeGaulle's grandson with us.
H:
I knew that. I made an appointment to see you.
K:
Oh good.
H:
The 24th.
K:
We are having lunch. We will get the money for the university as long
as some contribution from the university is made. Is this the
obnoxious bunch?
H:
They are studying
a change in climate as long as you can keep
the Vice President from returning it to what it was.
K:
Think his ability would be much less then what it was.
H:
Thank you very much for calling.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELECON
Mr. Kissinger/Prof. Stanley Hoffman
& Mrs. Hoffman
8:27 p.m., November 13, 1970
K:
See you on the 24th.
H:
Here,
wants to speak to you.
Mrs. H:
???
K:
I didn't know you spoke German so well.
Mrs. H:
???
K:
Didn't think all these socialites
Mrs. H:
I saw you live.
K:
Where?
Mrs. H:
That interview about you.
K:
You mean the Margaret Osmer thing. Barbara Howar, she ruins my
reputation completely.
Mrs. H:
How was Paris?
K:
Very interesting day to be there, of course, quite moving. Just go in
for the funeral and leave again. I was present with Pompidou at the
meeting so, but very little business.
Mrs. H:
Yes, I could see the President was very moved.
K:
He admired De Gaulle, he really did. He was very impressed with him.
Mrs. H: Yeah.
K:
When you do your psychology of this President.
Mrs. H:
I don't think I will.
K:
I think you will think it was a fascinating subject.
Mrs. H: Maybe with you [urging] me I might. I could see he was very moved by
the expression on his face, he was entirely caught up in the
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELECON
Mr. Kissinger/Prof. Stanley Hoffman
& Mrs. Hoffman
8:27 p. m., November 13, 1970
K:
What moved him very much was when we were leaving the Church and
they started playing the March
o
Mrs. H:
He was standing next to the
absolutely spellbound while
everybody else around him was chattering away.
K:
Was this outside the Church? Nothing going on then.
Mrs. H:
???
K:
It was nice to talk to you.
Mrs. H:
It was nice of you to call us.
K:
Wanted Stanley to go
Mrs. H:
He was too tired to go by himself, next time.
K:
No, we won't see many like him in our lifetime. I am still counting on
you and Stanley to come down for dinner. I have talked to
about it.
Mrs. H:
You can call at the last minute.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Mr. Kissinger/Brian McDonnell
November 14, 1970 8:55 a. m.
(paraphrased)
jlj
(Late in conversation because carrying out HAK instructions.)
K: You are going to be staying at the Royaltian? (phonetic)
M: Royaltian.
K: You stay there through tomorrow? How long are you staying?
M: Monday I think. Alice is going to the convent tomorrow morning.
K: You should go with her. I promised her I would scold you. I did not
know you had lived there.
M: Yes. Coeducational convent. The 18 nuns are very
K: I did not know that.
M: Yes.
K: That is nice.
M: How are you doing Henry?
K: Are you coming to Washington soon? When will youxbikekyx are you
likely to come through again.
M: In about 2 weeks. I will call you before I come down.
K: If I am down tomorrow maybe I will
M: If you decide to come have one of the girls call me.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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Mr. Kissinger/Director Helms
(paraphrased)
November 14, 1970 9:20 a. m.
jlj
K: Do not yell at me. (Director Helms had been addressing someone aside.)
H: I wasn't yelling at you. I was talking to Tom Karamessines.
K: Dick I just wanted to let you know on the state of play.
H: I have been in touch with Moorer and Laird to see if they wanted
a briefing on this. Apparently we have been proceeding in the wrong
way on this. We have been meeting for the last 4-5 days. We assumed
they would report to the principals but they haven't. Dick Kennedy was
in for your staff. Dennis Dolan for Laird and Britain for the JCS.
One of these things will work out.
K: We will get it settled by noon or else we will get them all in the
situation room. I don't see this 3 battalions. I think 7 or nothing.
H: I have had Gen. Cushman take a hard look at this - being a Marine
General and all - and he says they should hit hard and get out and not
mess around with a show of little force.
K: I have not told the President but I know how he feels.
H: He has been pushing for the past two months.
K: He has been pushing you all summer. On this exfiltration - how
crucial is this.
H:
got ideas too but I asked for more information on that.
K: This decision does not have to be done today does it.
H: That is correct.
K: It will be done today.
H: Henry, I deeply appreciate your support.
K: Well, you have it.
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TelConHAK/Harlow/Shultznm
10:30:11/14/70 - re Mills Bill
(Sorry - I missed quite a bit of this)
H:
Shultz and I felt we had to talk to you.
HAK:
Well, I don't ordinarily return a Cabinet member's call, but when
two are calling, felt I had to.
H:
George and I are deeply concerned about the Mills Bill because it
comes up in the House next week. Do you recall that W meeting we
had - what we said?
HAK: I remember we stated we don't like the language a bit, it is distasteful.
We will accept it only if it is not changed to make it worse.
H:
If you are cloudy about what was said, may I give you a reminder as I
remember it.
HAK: Well, I wouldn't want to go before a court.
H:
The important thing is not what we recollect but what they believe
we said.
HAK: You said don't lock yourself into a vetoposition.
The President as I remember said that it was distasteful as it was
but it might have a useful bargaining purpose. The President said
well in some respects it might be useful to have it and I don't mind
the pressure. That was the critical discussion and I don't remember
it in detail.
(Mr. Harlow and Dr. K when discussing the bill - Mr. Harlow said
he thought the President was referring to shoes - Dr. K felt he
was referring to textiles.)
Schultz Re Rogers memo, but I think this won't give you anything. The
Secretary of State will chair the meeting
I don't think this
will get you anything.
HAK: Laird is trying to play you and me against each other.
S:
I had lunch with Moorer yesterday.
HAK: I think he should deal with me on strategic doctrine.
S:
He hasn't been able to make himself clear to me.
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- 2 -
HAK: It is not a major problem. May I call when when I am back in my
office.
S:
I would like you to meet George Saber (? spelling)
HAK: I will stick my head in there when I am free.
S:
I don't think he will be here then.
HAK: Sorry - - I have to go to a meeting on the otherside.
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U-Secretary Irwin/Mr. Kissinger
November 14, 1970 11:10 a. m.
(paraphrased)
jlj
I: Mel Laird called me on this NATO DBQ and I thought he would be
calling you on it and I wanted to talk to you first. However, I have had
my people get in touch with your people and it all seems to be on the
right track now.
K: He always threatens these things. I just think that if we put in
the caveat that has not been in DBQ before they will regard that as a
change of position.
I:
Congressional
K: Why does he want it in?
I: Well, it is a factor involved.
K: It has been a factor for 10 years, why now?
I: His point was it would look as if the Administration had not made
up its own mind. Various caveats.
K:
I know what he wants He wants to pull forces out and when
he doesn't get his way in the Administration he goes to the Congressional
Committees.
I: In the meeting next week will be the big push as far as the question
of a decision. Our people agreed with your people. One word change.
I originally thought he would call you.
K: I haven't seen it so I don't have an opinion.
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Ambassador John Freeman/Mr. Kissinger
November 14, 1970 11:25 a. m.
(paraphrased)
jlj
F: I wanted to give you enough time to recover from Paris and the
Mexican President. I have three things I want to go over with you.
One is rather delicate but just between ourselves. I have been asked
to deliver a letter from Lord Mountbatten to the President. The letter
refers to a conversation he had with the President and in the middle
of the letter he refers to your Spanish foreign policy. I wanted to
tell you that this aspect of your foreign policy - your relations with
Spain
All I want to say is that since he owes the President a
letter I cannot refuse to deliver it but the British Government would use
other channels if it were trying to tell you something about your
Spain foreign policy. This is a private letter and he does not hold any
formal position in the government and is not speaking for the government.
K: I understand that completely of course. Mountbatten was under a
misapprehension on a number of things we have done with relation to
Spain but that is between Mountbatten and us and not your government.
F: I would hate for you to think that this was a subtle way in which
Great Britain was trying to draw something to your attention. I will,
of course, report this to Greenhill, exactly what I have done and what
I am saying to you now. However, this is to be considered strictly a
private communication.
K: I understand. John, as long as I have you on the phone. This is
not an urgent matter. In the meeting of the Berlin Ambassadors they
were discussing two texts. One you favored and the other was favored
by the Soviets. While I do not pay much attention to the Berlin talks
I was interested in knowing why you felt the way you did. The Soviet
position and text seemed to me to be more moderate than the one you
supported. I am interested simply for my education.
form of
words that progress was being made when I cannot see it. This is a
semi-official request.
F: I will have to do some backreading on that. I remember the cables
but I will have to go back and read them before I answer your question. I
will tell you the answer to that.
K: We have no displeasure or anything. I am just curious how you felt
obliged to do it. Our and your analysis seem to be the same of these things.
F: Two other things Henry. I am just asking you these questions to find
out the right channel. It is nothing we should be worried about.
John Thompson on the India
would like to meet on Monday, 7th of
December. Who should he talk to about this.
K: Let him deal with Wayne Smith on my staff.
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-2-
F: Right. We will not conceal this from the State Department that he is
coming. They have been asking us about it ever since Chequers and when
it was going to be followed up upon.
K: That is fine. I have not told them that John Thompson was coming
but I have told them why I wanted the study done - the urgency of it -
and told that this grew out of the Chequers meeting.
F: Fine. We will be dealing with Wayne Smith on it.
K: You must not count too much on the first effort of these people.
Until I work them over and terrorize them a bit the
F: But I am sure that John Thompson will be helpful to you about it.
Another similar question. The briefing you referred to
Lord
Carrington (phonetic)
Men (phonetic - man's name) will be here
and was wondering about the 25th of November. David Bendall (phonetic)
will be here too. X Who should we deal with?
K: Well, we could do this on various levels. I think you should deal with
Sonnenfeldt on this.
F: If Bendall is in town and if Men is in town then we cannot keep them
much of a secret.
K: They should have their normal contacts in Washington. This is not
a secret visit and I assume they will have other appointments while they
are here.
F: Then we should not conceal their presence. However, although their
meeting in the White House will la not be a secret what they hear and say
in the White House will be. OK, Sonnenfeldt on this one and Smith on the
other.
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-2-
K: I just do not believe that they - - - have you seen the latest Dobrynin
memcon. I told Al Haig to send it over. I just cannot believe that they
will be wanting a showdown at this point.
J: Unless they wanted to prove the ability to make "courtesy calls". I
just checked. They are still in there this morning. I will be talking to
him again. Everyone knows it is there. There will be a blow up about
this in the press if it is going to stay. Perhaps it would be wise to call Dobrynin.
K: Call up Dobrynin?
J: Yes. Only thought I have.
K: Call him up or ask him in? I will ask him in late today or early
tomorrow. I will report to you as soon as I have talked to him.
J: We still have the Portugese Foreign Minister in New York.
K: I will get him an appointment. The Secretary promised me he would do it and
I should lay off. Because I broached it and got turned down.
J: Maybe he did. He is out with a bad cold today.
K: I do not think he was alone with the President on the plane. He had pkanesk
planned to talk to him in Key Biscayne.
J: You do not know anything about it. I'll talk to him. About the UN and
Paul Hoffman and his replacement. I didn't know anything about it until
today but I understand Fred Bergsten knew something about it. U. Thant
is going to reappoint Hoffman about in about a week. Sam DePalma and
Fred were discussing it.
K: He can't do that. We have to get some names in. Martin was mentioned
but I don't think it will go.
J: Dave Bell was suggested. I don't know the politics of it.
K: They are not good but we offered him the job Eliot Richardson got so I
assume they are not impossible. Dave is a good man and I like him. I think
that is a good idea.
J: We can talk about this later. You will check it out.
K: I will check with the President. I will check it this afternoon. That
damned intelligence report on the standstill is still hanging fire. I am only
interested to stop them from cooking estimate. Would they add missiles
in the area 45 SAM XXXXXXX battalions and then deploy them when they
should hide them I just want to get an agreed statement before they start
1x leaking it out of Defense.
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TELECON
Mr. Kissinger/Secretary Rogers
1:36 p. m., November 14, 1970
K:
Hello, Bill. I wanted to find out how you were.
R:
I'm lot better today -- my temperature is down.
K:
You missed a fascinating lunch. It was hard to keep the
conversation going for an hour. He is more energetic than his
predecessor. It's just the nature of the situation that there isn't
a lot to talk about. The only interesting thing was he is pretty
much on our line on Chile -- but nothing overt.
I got hell from the President. I raised the Portuguese
Foreign Minister issue again. He said you and I were in cahoots.
He was good natured about it, but wouldn't do it. So we have laid
on the Vice President. We will say the President isn't up to it --
he has a cold or something. It has nothing to do with him. Basically,
the reason is that when he saw the Heads of State, he forgets they
were all heads of state. So now he doesn't want to see Foreign Ministers.
R:]
Maybe when he is over there, we will see if he can drop in.
The President XXX figures this guy merely wants to say he saw him.
K:
You, Alex and everyone else who wants this is right.
R:
He didn't stop in Portugal; he stopped in Spain. We worked
out the Spanish bases; but we've done nothing about the Azores. But
I think we have pushed enough.
K:
If, when the Foreign Minister is here and if the President is
in, I will call and say he is here. It may be good for a handshake.
R:
Good.
lds
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Mr. Kissinger/Ben Wells (NYTimes)
November 14, 1970
2:00
p.m.
(paraphrased)
jlj
K: You called yesterday and left enigmatic references that it might be
too late for me unless I talked to you. I want to know what it is all about.
W: Max had asked me to call your office as a routine when we had a
story to check it out with you as you thought the Times was not being
responsive. We have written a story that US has understanding with the
Soviet Union not to base XXXXX nuclear missiles in the Carribean waters
or nuclear missiles in the Western Hemisphere. We would not be
adverse if they want to use recreation facilities, service and maintaixcexcex
maintenance or calls at the ports. We have hopes that
there will be evidence in the next few (3 or 4) days of the removal byxtxxx of the
tender in Cienfuegos.
K: If we could avoid the last paragraph I do not think this is an outrageous
story
W: That is the guts of the story. It is the pendant on which it is hung.
K: But it escalates it. It goes into a sort of public confrontation.
W: Only X going to be in the New York Times.
K: It is not an inconsiderable newspaper.
W: That will gladden many hearts inthis office. May I quote you.
K: You have not had any problem with me.
W: Seriously let's talk about us being responsible.
K: This last thing - I do not know on what you base it. I certainly did
not say it.
W: (reading) next 2 or 3 days we have hopes that the tender will be taken
out.
K: I tell you as a fact I have no way of knowing that. I really don't.
W: We expect the removal of the tender?
K: If XX you say that it would be really unfortunate.
W: Then give me some guidance as to what I should say. Is this all
on background. Let's work together.
K: I do not want to give a time deadline. XXX
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-2-
W:
my accurate source of information
K: You have no other source of accurate information. All you have
is gossip. I do not know who gave you this information but this is
just not right.
W: You say this will damage our policy. Will you give me some
guidance in order to avoid that.
K: We consider the removal of the tender desirable. But we would
like to treat it quietly.
W: Are the barges equally important?
K: No. Not without the tender.
W: One without the other.
K: Anything can be used the next time.
W: Where does this leave us? I do not want to be irresponsible.
K: I am not writing your story for you. I just do not want you to put
a time limit on our considerations or permanent bases would not be
X
concerned with the understanding,
that is one thing, but if you gave a deadline it could have unfortunate
consequences.
W: If they take it out and sail it around and then return to Port that
is all right?
K: If it was permanently in Carribean waters we would have a problem.
It would have to be determined by the length of stay and what it does.
W: Then our objections are based on permanency?
support for
nuclear missile submarines
barges.
K:
we are reasonably satisfied. Both sides know what it is that
creates concern.
W: It is one thing if they bring in Y-class and bring crews ashore and
dump affluent (?) out - do we consider it a concern.
K: It would have to be on a case to case basis. I cannot define every
single instance. A lot of it depends on the spirit.
W: You mean you would trust Gromyko and Dobrynin after 1962.
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-3-
K: It is not a question of trust. We will know what they are doing.
W: What would this mean in the terms of muscle.
K: I do not want to speculate.
W: You have given me nothing but you say it is irresponsible to put
in a time limit.
K: Do not have 2 or 3 days. Thexx X XX X XX
XndXxXXXX Anyone who told you that WXOXLX did not know what he was
talking about.
W: Possibly.
K: Certainly.
W: No time frame at all. Simply rely on their good will.
K: Lot of time between 2 days and never.
W: Herb Klein said they pulled out and now they came back. Does he
speak for the Administration?
K: I think that I have gone as far as I am going to on this. Thank you
for calling.
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TELECON
Mr. Kissinger/Max Frankel
2:05 p.m., November 14, 1970
K:
I had a painful, semi-blackmailing conversation with
Ben Wells who is doing the Cuba story. He wants to say that
we have reason to believe that this tender will leave in two or three
days. I don't think this can be said because (a) this isn't true, and
(b) to say it at this point will jeopardize the whole complex back-and-
forth on this issue. He says if I don't tell him what is true, he will
have to go with what he thinks is true. Very few people in this
government know what is true. This isn't true. It may come true
but if it does, it would be a pure accident. When does he plan to
publish this? Tomorrow?
F:
Tomorrow.
K:
For reasons which you don't know and cannot control and for
which you are not to blame, it would be the worst possible timing and
would jeopardize the whole thing. He can, if he wants, speculate
about permanent stationing there. The true reasons I cannot give
you now, but the article appears at an excruciatingly bad time. We
can get this wound up only by keeping the profile low.
F:
I think I get the picture.
K:
I don't object to most of the rest of it, but lay off the tender
to some extent.
F:
Let me see if we can find some way of sluffing away from it.
K:
In return, when the tender leaves, I will explain to you why
this is so sensitive and give you a chance to do an article. If I have
deceived you in this phone call, then you could slam me.
F:
I wouldn't do that. You understand why this is an intriguing
topic for us.
But I will talk to him.
K:
But it would be most unfortunate right now.
F:
I understand.
lds
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TELECON
Mr. Kissinger/The President
2:20 p. m., November 14, 1970
K:
Mr. President, how are you. I wanted to bring you up to
date on one development. The Syrian army overthrew the government.
P:
I read that.
K:
I think it is one of the positive results of our Jordanian move.
P:
From what I can read from the news summary, the move
certainly is not a move to the left but to the right.
K:
But these people will still be in the radical camp.
P:
They can't be anything else.
K:
It proves that a most hardline regime didn't survive a challenge
to us. People will remember. As far as conduct of negotiations, it
has problems because it means we now have to talk about the Golon
Heights. I think the Egyptians would have preferred to drop it, but
that is a tactical issue. On the whole, it is a positive development
and therefore quite good.
One other thing -- Laird has been talking to Stennis about the
Stennis amendment to the appropriations bill to the effect that combat
troops cannot be used in Laos and Thailand. He wants to authorize
Stennis to add the word "Cambodia. 11 I think I would like to call
Stennis.
P:
No. "Cambodia" will not be used. I want the threat. It's the
whole point. We'd be out of our minds. We have to keep them guessing.
We shouldn't have Thailand in there because we have a treaty.
K:
It has nothing to do with whether we intend to use them or not.
I had a talk with Dobeynin this morning and told him about the tender.
He said he would report to Moscow.
P:
Did he know it was there?
K:
He said, 'Do you take it seriously or are you making an issue?
I said we are taking it seriously. They are trying to kick us a little.
It's not in its former position. They have it way in a corner of the
harbor - on the Cuban side of the harbor. It's not where the installation
is. It's a salami tactic where they always test you.
DECLASSIFIED
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PER RAC REVIEW 6/12/2008
By JUS NARA, Date 8/20/2012
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[en. 1 of 63
Mr. Kissinger/The President
2:20 p.m., November 14, 1970
- 2 -
P:
Okay.
K:
On the plan for next Saturday, I am getting the plans over
from Defense. They are playing into our hands.
P:
That big play television made -- no casualties for 2 days,
and then they said there had been a big step-up in casualties -- which
was 9. We all know this shooting down of the plane has to be
K:
They fired at planes again today and made a statement on
Hanoi radio that there was no understanding.
P:
There was! What does Rusk say?
K:
Even Harriman knew there was an understanding.
P:
Can we get anybody else other than ourselves to say something
about the understanding? That was what the understanding was about.
K:
There's no question about it.
P:
Anyway, if they do it, I think it's time for a hell of a good
bang. Whatever happens on the helicopter thing
K:
I am getting plans for the whole operation.
P:
I want to see them.
K:
Should we keep some in reserve for when they start the
offensive? Maybe hit two or three places like the dumps where
the fire came from. Where there are a lot of supplies.
P:
Do they have a lot? Give them a big bang. We have good
reason to do it. If they have a lot of supplies, knock hell out of their
supplies. We can't temporize.
K:
X
We will do it in conjunction with the helicopter thing SO they
won't be in a high state of alert.
P:
I agree. The whole thing should be done then. That was the
plan. The first Laird plan said all we would do would be make a
feint. That is too dangerous. If we just whack around, they won't
know where the next blow is coming from. But don't publicize it.
Let them put it out. Don't let the Air Force put it out.
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Coo. 2. of 6]
Mr. Kissinger/The President
2:20 p. m., November 14, 1970
- 3 -
K:
We will get it all done in one morning.
P:
This is an order for Laird. Nothing is to be announced
from out there. We will merely say it was in reaction to
K:
Helms' people are starting a little offensive in Northern Laos
to get some supplies to use to launch an offensive. It's imaginative
and not huge. It plays together with the others we have.
P:
What was TV saying about an offensive?
K:
There wasn't one. It was a clearing operation along Route 6.
P:
It said there was a great blow to ARVN.
K:
That is another thing. It's not true. Thieu has given orders
that ARVN not proceed more than 30 miles inside Cambodia unless
there is an imminent threat to Phnom Penh. He is stopping at this
line so they don't get over-extended. It's very similar to the order
we gave. They are cleaning out any caches in the sanctuary areas.
P:
That is going according to plan, isn't it?
K:
There is no report which indicates there is anything like a
setback.
P:
What about the buildups as far as the North Vietnamese.
It sounds like gamesmanship.
K:
They are putting a lot of men into the pipeline. We are now
seeing everything coming down the Ho Chi Minh Trail. Previously
some came through Sihanoukville. There's a lot coming down the
Trail, SO they need more men on the Trail. There's a lot stopping
in Southern Laos because of logistics problems. On casualties,
we estimated 15,000 dead. If we say 15, 000 total casualties, our
estimates are they are barely replacing their losses of the last
six months. We are putting almost all our airplanes into interdiction.
P:
Is it effective.
K:
I don't know what to believe. We don't have the right kind of
airplanes.
P:
We need some old prop planes like Corsairs. They are a lot
better than these jets.
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[on. 3 of 6]
Mr. Kissinger/The President
2:20 p.m., November 14, 1970
- 4 -
K:
They are too fast and too high performance for this sort
of campaign. We are having fairly substantial guerrilla operations
on these routes. There are good reports of harrassment --
blowing up convoys. Next weekend we will hit these choke points
from Vietnam into Laos and where a lot has piled up because of
heavy rains.
P:
I would like to see the plan. I think it's a good one. Did you
tell Bill?
K:
I am planning to tell Bill Monday or Tuesday. We told Bruce.
I think Bill will go along with it.
P:
Monday is too early -- Tuesday is plenty of time.
K:
Let's wait to see what the private talks bring -- but I don't
think it will bring anything.
P:
Is Bruce all for it?
K:
I can say he would go along with it. He wouldn't object.
P:
He wouldn't object?
K:
He sort of thought it was interesting.
P:
In any event, Bill has to be brought in. We have to do
something on this pressure thing. This is it.
K:
I will talk to him Tuesday or Wednesday.
P:
Talk to him with Laird.
K:
We could send Laird alone -- it's his plan.
P:
No, you and he and Laird. Tell him it is a protective reaction
plot. Don't build that up too much. Say we are going to hit a couple
of places because they have been firing on planes. We are waiting
until Saturday. Tell Laird not to build up too big an operation. Get
it going. I can't see why Bill will object.
K:
I think Bill will go along with it.
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[ 4
Mr. Kissinger/The President
2:20 p. m., November 14, 1970
- 5 -
P:
Speaking of the Defense Department -- Zumwalt's buttering
up the troops. Probably the purpose is to get volunteers. Now,
the Air Force guys are doing the same thing in Colorado. Maybe
when they look at the peacetime navy, they may need it.
K:
My general reaction is that the Navy has the highest morale.
I don't think you can run the military service as a mass meeting.
P:
He is certainly pushing that thing over there.
K:
Maybe he is too slick. I see him from time to time. Zumwalt
is very bright. He may be the brightest of the Chiefs. He has a
little of the problems General Taylor used to have -- he is a little
too intellectual. What you need from a soldier is guts and to say
what he thinks.
P:
I like him, but I don't want him to go overboard. Pretty
soon, they'll say marijuana is okay.
K:
I will talk to Moorer. If they are doing it to please us, they
don't have to do it.
P:
Don't do it if they think they will make the columnists like
them better.
K:
They are against the military.
P:
They are against the United States. Look back over our enormous
achievements here. Consider what we have done in the last year:
November 3, Cambodia, defused the war, knocked the critics down.
K:
You forced the whole Democratic party to the right. I read
in the Boston Globe that Sam XXX Brown (head of the Moratorium)
gave a talk in Boston. He said, in effect, you were right idealogically
by pushing them to the right. They did better than expected but
in terms of substance they lost -- the moratorium people.
P:
The intellectuals have to rationalize the whole thing. When
you consider the beating their real spokesmen took -- Gore, Tydings,
Goodell. Nobody considered Murphy or Smith anything. This must
irritate them.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Coo. 5 of 63
Mr. Kissinger/The President
2:20 p. m., November 14, 1970
- 6 -
K:
They are trying to do what they did from the beginning -- to
get you to appeal to the liberals. On Vietnam, you have done
almost all the things they used to propose. They would like to cut
you off from normal support and for six months or so the editorials
would quiet down but in '72 they would be all over you.
P:
We won't worry about it. We'll get the economy moving.
I think it will be a shocker when we come on with the Summit. Suck
them along on U.S. /Soviet relations, and we'll then surprise them.
K:
On the Soviet/American side, there is something you could
do for them. It's a complicated thing. We have held a spy -- we
want it for legal precedent. Dobrynin has asked me about it. He
said State and the Attorney General haven't been able to do anything.
I have worked out with Mitchell that the case would be kept in the
courts and the guy can be released to Dobrynin, and this would get
us rolling to the Summit.
P:
We can reconsider in view of their action in Cuba and Jordan.
We can reconsider that gear thing. Would this be in exchange for
the Generals?
K:
No, I would hold it until close to the Summit announcement.
Put another week or two between KXX release of the spy and the
Generals. It would be a sign of good will on your part. We have
made our point by holding him for 7 years. Mitchell is willing
to go along if you are.
P:
Okay, do it.
K:
All right, Mr. President.
lds
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Mr. Kissinger/Secretary Laird
(paraphrased)
November 14, 1970 2:45 p.m.
jlj
L: Henry, you called.
K: I do not have anything of overwhelming importance. On this
business the President is really driving me up the walls. He wants a
larger plan. He wants to include a port.
L: We have three carriers moving in there. We are bringing up as much
stuff as we can.
K: I think we should
the two areas we discuss yesterday.
L: Got those theee in there. We have a drone going over today. We
might as well hit hard.
K: I would like to keep it ordered to the general vicinity to where
this thing came.
L: Take in all three of those base areas. I think that after the
Wednesday afternoon meeting we ought to show the attack plan and some
of the pictures to the President.
K: Good, why don't you plan on that.
L: We have told McCann not to say a word to anyone. Just get them
in there and don't answer any questions. We would not want him
talking to anyone. Give him a good hit on this one Henry.
K: Excellent
L: I am getting in touch with Goodpaster and asking him to fly over
for the meeting. Do you want him to bring Ellsworth with him.
K: We have already told Ellsworth. I mean we have already told
State that we want Ellsworth back.
L: I will handle it this way then.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Dr. Kraemer
11/16/70 8:50 a. m.
FK: I have a message which is not really in my bailiwick.
I can't discuss it over the phone. I would like to see you. I will
be though in 10 minutes -- I promise you it won't take my longer.
HK: That's all right. How about at noon bøday?
FK: Fine.
HK: 12:00.
I will send you a car.
FK: Don't bother. I can get a car here. I will be at your
office at noon.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Lucy Winchester
11/16/70 9:30 a. m.
W: I saw this memo to you from Dwight Chapin about the Ky
breakfast.
Is anyone else going to be present?
K: Yes, I'll give you a list.
W: About how many will there be?
K: I don't know right now. Can I give you a list later today?
W: Please do.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Haldeman/Kissinger
late morning
11/16/70
K: That meeting the President wants with Laird and Rogers.
H: It's Laird and Rogers?
K: I think it is. You better check with him. Laird want it on Wed. or after because
of security. Not before Wed. The President mumbled something about tomorrow.
H: It's a problem tomorrow. After Wed. or on Wed. ?
K: Wed. will be better. Is the NSC on Wed.?
B: He kicked me out without any answers. I don't know what he is up to.
K: He says you will know what it's about.
H: Well, I don't. I think he was thinking of a press conference which he realizes
he cannot do.
K: He is in an odd mood.
H: We will have to ease him back into routine. Post-election decompression and it's
kakxingx not taking well.
K: I thought perhaps it was just with me. He isn't focusing on my area.
H: He isn't focusing on anything. He is past the hashing of election results -- At least
I have only had a couple of hours a day on that lately.
K: He didn't do badky.
H: Jos. Alsop is still with us.
K: He moved to the right. He should move confidently -- be a President. In two
months people will forget the election time. Let me know as soon as you can on that.
And also on the NSC.
H: Will do.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Senator Allott
11/16/70 10:25 a. m.
A: I just got back last night and
did anyone ever get in
touch last weekend with your office about contacting Gerald Smith?
K: No.
A: Not your secretary or anyone in your office?
K: No.
A: You remember our conversation?
K: Yes, and I was waiting to hear from you.
A: I went over there. I was supposed to have gotten word to you.
K: I was ready to roll out the red carpet but I didn't hear anything.
A: I didn't learn enough to pay for my time going up there.
K: It's inexcuseable. When was I supposed to be told?
A: Last weekend?
K: Before this one?
A: Yes, Friday or Saturday.
K: By whom?
A: Apparently someone in the Defense Department. I left it to
this liaison captain.
I'm going to check it there.
K: Let me chase it down at my end too.
A: I'm not sure I'll be at the leadership meeting tomorrow. I've
come up with a spasm in my back. But as soon as it is better I'll try to
get in touch with you. It will only take about 5 minutes.
K: It will be good to see you. I am sorry about this.
A: I think this liaison captain is a stupid jerk.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Joe Alsop
11/16/70 10:40 a. m.
A: How serious is this Cuban thing?
K: That's what we are trying to find out.
A: It looks as though we don't hadn't sorted it out after all.
K: It's just part of this petty and mean-minded Russian bunch.
We told them not to build a submarine base there so if they so that if
they do XX so we have a better legal basis to act than before. It is
certainly a sign
my own judgment is that they will still putt
that ship out but it is à mean move.
A: I have the darkest suspicions about the future. I don't see
that we've got not any serious kind of deterrent capability or any plan.
And everyone says you can't be planning to go as far in the Middle East
as you say. It's clear that they can't do anything in the Middle East
till they put in 10 or 12 more squadrons of MIGs in Egypt and it won't
surprise me a bit if I hear they do. And we are not doing a thing to
stop it. It's very dangerous.
K: You know my views on that subject.
A: It's tough to do anything at thelast minute a bout it.
What
are your chances of exx getting out of your engagement on the night
Kennetly Clark is coming to dinner?
K: I will know this afternoon.
A: Splendid. And I am going off on Thursday and would like to
see you before I go.
K: I'll call you and we'll work something out.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Gerard Smith/Kissinger
11:00 a. m.
11/16/70
S: ? ? ? ? ? a communique betwean you and the President a couple of days ago.
I just heard x today that State Secretariat was asked for a copy by the WH. I send
it through backchannel and State Secretariat wouldn't know about it. Someone on your
staff may have asked for an extra copy of it.
K: You sent it through a State channel?
S: I sent a backchannel to the President and didn't want State to have a copy of it.
Some way State heard about it.
K: How could it be?
S: Someone on your staff may have asked for an extra copy.
K: I will check on it. I guarantee it will not happen again.
S: I wanted it out of State channels.
K: Thank you.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Laird/Kissinger
[1970].
11:17 a.m.
11/16/7-
K: I had an opportunity to talk about the Stennis matter with the President. He doesn't
want Cambodia in there.
L: I will takex talk to him then and see what we can do.
K: He has no intention -- you know his theory.
L: He said perhaps after the election that if Cambodia was strong it would be a reason
for compromixe.
K: He was very strong on it.
L: We will take that position but we may get beat. Stennis thinks he has to do it.
I will tell him we will oppose it.
K: Want me to call him?
L: No. I will tell you if we have to go beyond that.
K: The President is going to call us all together in the next day or two and he will
tell Rogers himself.
L: Wait until Wed. Things leak like a seive. Even your meetings.
K: I was outraged.
L: No one over here even knows about those meetings.
K: It's awful and makes us look to the Russians like we are putting the arm on them.
L: We put out a battle statement over there and they have for years.
K: He doesn't want it any more.
can't
L: We XXX stop it.
K: Some people are keeping their own tally.
L: They have always done it but they are always wrong. When the deaths come out
this week it will be 32 not 41. These reporters report on deaths and add totals
and always come out wrong.
K: Will you get that straight. If they could be discredited
L: Our reporters know it. They are always wrong. We can keep telling them our
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Laird/Kissinger
11:17 a.m.
11/16/70
-2-
L: (cont) official report is on Thur S. Our report will be 32.
K: One other point, there was some feeling over here that Adm. Mack on commenting
on the pot thing took a hardboiled attitude. "Sure, what are they going to do? It instead
of XX showing concern.
L: I agree. I took care of that. The whole thing is bad.
K: They want to be sure we show concern about that.
L: I want to talk to you about the S. Vietnamese government on that. We have
evidence that high officials in the SVN Government are involved in that. I don't
know how to handle it. One is visiting here next week. I have shut off the
investigators.
K: We will talk about it.
L: It would be bad if it focused.
K: I will see you soon.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Secretary Rogers
11/16/70 ca. 11:30 a. m.
R: I was just going over this CIA assessment of the missiles.
They are trying to back away from it now. This is what we've said all
along.
K: It is one of the most
things I've seen.
R: We're right back where we started. What we've all been saying.
K: Everything confirms what you've been saying.
R: I went over every picture myeelf.
K: Even if their notion were right it still would have been a
violation. They said they could have been hidden under sand. Then I
had a stody made: they would have had to dig a hole as big as the White
House and the Executive Office Building combined.
R: This is exactly what we've gee been saying.
K: Absolutely. The reason I put it out from the White House is
that once Defense submits a unilateral paper, they leak it. It wasn't
directed to State at all.
R: I understand. I wanted it done.
K: Butix it confirmed everything we've been saying. If anything
it shows you've been extremely moderate. But we ha d to go through three
drafts to get this statement. They kept saying we can't be sure they weren't
there to begin with. But to have them hidden up to that time and then un-
cover them doesn't make any sense.
R: It's just ludicrous when you look at the pictures. You could
see that the sand hadn't been touched in the pictures.
K: The whole thing was absurd.
R: By looking at the pictures you could see the construction: they
were bringing in trucks and pouring cement. I will see you tomorrow.
K: No, it's been moved to Wednesday.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Haldeman/Kissinger
12:20 pm
11/16/70
H: It was the press conference he was holding off on so he says we can do the NSC
on Wed. Do we have to do the leadership?
K: Yes.
H: Then it must be Wed. So we had better do the NSC Thurs.
K: How about getting with Rogers and company?
H: I said Laird wanted it on Wed. He said fine. How about after the leadership meeting
K: Isn't he having breakfast with Rockefeller?
H: Have the bi-partisan leaders after.
K: It doesn't have to be after the leaders meeting. It can be anytime. The advantage
to having leaders meeting afterwards would be that it would end the discussion.
Sex
before
H: So before would be better. All right. How long do we need for Laird and Rogers?
K: 45 minutes.
H: Then - okay.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
The President
11/16/70; 6:45 p.m.
P: How did your meeting come off when I called you you were in the
Situation Room.
K: I said what you had suggested. First I told him about Ivanov. I said
why don't we start talking about the agenda. He said when he said we
should talk about it I said in three or four weeks now he says he has
authority to talk about it after December 1. He said he was going to
communicate with Moscow. They are playing it cool.
P: We will play it the same way.
K: Casualties not 44 but 32.
P: Why the hell did they put out 44 then?
K: They get put out by two or three channels and some get counted twice.
Actually, we are now at the average of recent weeks. I called Laird to
raise hell about the daily count. He said it was wrong and the real figure
was about 31 or 32. He said he was going to the press.
P: I suggested that you and Bunker come in tomorrow after I meet with
the leaders. We will have a good hour to talk to him.
K: Excellent, I think that would be very good.
P: How is he feeling?
K: I have not seen him since he came back he was fine when I saw him.
P: We want him to spare himself and give us his judgment on this political
thing.
K: He should tell Thieu that if we have anything to say to Thieu it should
come through Bunker.
P: It would not be useful if he stayed for the Ky breakfast. We are not
going to let that little son-of-a-bitch (Ky) spoil this the point is they
can't go any place without us. He is going to know very hard where this
stands.
K: That's the key thing -- we are too close now.
P: Did you get anything further done on Pakistan?
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telecon
Mr. Kissinger
-2-
The President
11/16/70; 6:45 p.m.
K: We will get the full package on Pakistan tonight and I can give you the
proposal the first thing in the morning.
P: I don't need to see it but I want them to know we care and we care fast.
Have you sent the message to
?
K: That was done -- so I think we are going through -- we will have
something tomorrow.
P: I have an idea about this but you will let me know about it tomorrow.
K: We will have it the first thing in the morning.
feg
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/The President
8:50 p. m., November 16, 1970
P:
I wonder if Moorer is going to be prepared to go, a concrete plan.
K:
Yes he is Mr. President. I have seen it. Actually there are two kinds
of plans, the logistics constraints
related to where the firing
came from and another one which would explain when. Logistics up
near the border when they start an offensive.
P:
I agree. Let's have him submit it on that basis. Is there good stuff
to hit there?
K:
Yes, there's good stuff.
P:
Yeah. A Lot to hit huh.
K:
That's their judgment yes. Then he will also be prepared to brief on
that other operation.
P:
Saturday, the 21st.
K:
Assuming there is a full moon, assuming there is good weather that
night. The morning after they go on after that operation, go after the
supply dumps.
P:
They are hitting the supply dumps second rather than first?
K:
Yes, they will go on a state of alert if the supply dumps are hit first.
P:
Think the best thing on the other operation with complete surprise.
K:
Yes.
P:
That seems to make sense and that would, well I think, yes we at least
when we do the other operation whatever happens this will cover it.
The other will involve
K:
The other one will create SO much noise anyway this won't attract SO
much attention.
P:
I understand. Got to come very close together, yeah. Okay. And
they will be ready to brief on that Wednesday?
K:
We can, Mr. President. It would come on the 21st which is Saturday.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Page 2
Mr. Kissinger/The President
8:50 p.m., November 16, 1970
P:
Or the 22nd.
K:
Or the 22nd, if the weather is good.
P:
The 21 st, 22nd or 23rd, any one of those nights.
K:
One of those nights. If they get out with the number of prisoners
[they expect to get out with, they may get] out as many as 90 but
they are pretty confident to get around 50.
P:
Based on simply letters?
K:
Letters, photographs and considering that we have only got 9 prisoners
[out as long as the war has gone on].
P:
If we get 9, that would be a hell of a thing.
K:
If we get any, we will get more than 9 assuming their intelligence is
good.
P:
We will take the risk on that. Another thing, I have a pencilled note,
I told -- Bentsen wanted to be briefed on foreign policy matters and
Buckley and obviously you will continue to do Humphrey on a selected
basis.
K:
He has written me a letter [and I planned to raise it with you].
P:
You can go ahead (with Humphrey) and do that with Bentsen. You can
be very forthcoming with Bentsen, he is like Stennis, he will play it
straight down the line. Let Haig give him the briefing on ABM. Give
both Bentsen and Buckley, send them over to State and let them get
a briefing on the world. ??? Don't want us to get into everything that
goes on, you arrange, your office will arrange for them to be briefed
on the national defense. ??? knows a hell of a lot anyway.
K:
Let Sisco brief them and Sullivan brief them ???.
P:
Sisco and Sullivan would be very good, the two of them would be very
good. ABM, national defense and our own shop, that's all that matters
to us. As far as the Republicans are concerned they are, it would be
good if you could brief them in a bunch. The five Congressmen, I had
in today
K:
And Buckley?
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Page 3
Mr. Kissinger/The President
8:50 p.m., November 16, 1970
P:
Don't include him, do him separately.
K:
[Separately ? ]
P:
I see no objection really. Bentsen and Buckley together, you could do
the whole bunch together on that point, they all think alike, then let
Sisco and Sullivan do the other.
K:
I'll take care of that Mr. President. [I just got a report], they lobbed
13 rockets into South Vietnam and killed three Americans. All this is
grist to the mill.
P:
Yeah.
K:
It was 20 miles North of Saigon.
P:
What this really is now is isolated acts of terror, none of this
is meant
.
K:
They are trying to kick us, to try and make us look bad in public.
P:
That newspaper report casualties would be 33 not 4. I hope Laird
cleared it up.
K:
He said he would, reporting from the various headquarters. If someone
is transferred from one headquarter to another, they could be counted
twice.
P:
Couldn't stop those daily reports, loss profile.
K:
Lousy story no matter how low the casualties are.
P:
To the extent we can, let the things go and we will report them each
week. The weekly report is the only one that means anything.
K:
That's what I urged him to do.
P:
Tomorrow I want to talk to you about Pakistan.
K:
[I have something on Pakistan]. Have earmarked $10 million, don't want
to move on any of it until we have their needs. We want to tell them
what sort of things we have available and let them give us an indication
of what sort of things they need. You asked for State's recommendation
but don't [think it's necessary.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Page 4
Mr. Kissinger/The President
8:50 p.m., November 16, 1970
P:
I'm going to think of something dramatic to do in that part of the world.
K:
Right, Mr. President.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Page data
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"ocrText": "DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]\nDOCUMENT\nDOCUMENT\nNUMBER\nTYPE\nSUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS\nDATE\nRESTRICTION\n1\nTclcon\nHAK\nand\nAlexis\nJohnson\n(1p.)\nSANITIZED\n2\nTolcon\nper RAC 6/2/10 review\n11/10/70ml\nB\nHAL and Richerd Helms CI\np)\nREVIEW\n6/12/2008\n11/11/70\nB\n3\nTelcon\nHAle DECLASSIFIED POR'RAC\nSANITIZED\nPER RAC REVIEW\n11/13/70\nB\n4\nTclcon\nHAK and Alexis Johnson (2pp.)\n6/12/2008\n11/14/70\nB\n5\nTelcon\nHAK and the President 66 pp.)\n11/14/70\nB\nDECLASSIFIED 6/12/2008\nper RAC review\nFILE GROUP TITLE\nBOX NUMBER\nKissinger Transcripts Telephone Conversations\n7\nFOLDER TITLE\n1970 10-16 Nov. 6\nRESTRICTION CODES\nA. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.\nE. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or\nB. National security classified information.\nfinancial information.\nC. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's\nF. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law\nrights.\nenforcement purposes.\nD. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy\nG. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.\nor a libel of a living person.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential and returned non-historical material.\nDECLASSIFIED\nNATIONAL ARCHIVE ursuant to Executive Order determined to be declassified. NA (4-85)\nTelcon\nAmbassador Lucet\n11/10/70; 10:20 a. m.\nL: I have heard that the President is going to Paris. That is wonderful;\nwe are deeply moved.\nK: Both the President and the Secretary of State.\nL: When do they leave?\nK: We leave tomorrow morning. He will be in Paris by midnight.\nWe will give you the exact time. Then we leave right after the memorial\nservice. He would like to pay a courtesy call on President Pompidou\nfor 15 minutes to pay our respects.\nL: And you too?\nK: Yes.\nL: So it would be the President, the Secretary of State, and yourself.\nThank you very much, Henry. That is very moving. We appreciate it\nvery much.\nK: We like to think that President De Gaulle belongs to everybody a\nlittle bit.\nL: Is he leaving from Miami?\nK: We haven't decided.\nL: President DeGaulle's grandson, his name is Charles, is in the\nUnited states now, an employee of an American company. He is in\nNew York. I don't request anything special. He would like to go\nto Paris for his grandfather's funeral.\nK: I will call you back on this other business on the grandson.\nL: I am going to have a service here in Washington Thursday at\nthe same time. I am in touch with Mosbacher.\nK: You know, of course, Charles that anything we can do you need\nonly call on us.\nms\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n10:30 a. m. , November 10, 1970\nP:\nWhat did you find out about the Mexicans?\nK:\nMcBride is over there now.\non Saturday\nP:\nIf they raise hell, set it at 1:00/ If they raise too much hell,\nwe will cancel. Friday at 1:00 is best for me. Then I will go to\nCamp David Friday night -- I will need it now.\nK:\nWe are pressing hard for that.\nP:\nDon't worry about clothes.\nK:\nIt will be either morning coat or a dark business suit. We\nhave talked to Watson, who says they haven't decided finally yet.\nP:\nI will take both. Some people will damn well wear them. I\nwant to know what Pompidou will wear. Tell them the President is\nprepared to wear a morning coat if they are. They may feel they shouldn't\nask. DeGaulle would have liked it dressed up.\nK:\nHe liked simplicity, but also formality.\nP:\nRemember he wore his uniform to both Presidents Kennedy's\nand Eisenhower's funerals. Say I am prepared to wear a morning coat.\nK:\nWe will make sure all Americans are ready either way.\nP:\nI think we should arrive in Paris on the ground at midnight.\nWe can go to bed as soon as we arrive. I don't know when Bruce can\nsee me.\nK:\nYou can get 15 minutes with him, but we have no real business.\nIt's not appropriate anyway.\nP:\nIt's probably better not to see him; it might leave a bad taste\nin people's mouths.\nK:\nI don't think that.\nP:\nYes, it would -- the sensitivity of it.\nK:\nYou could shake hands at the Ambassador's residence for 10\nminutes next morning before you go to the service; go to the service;\nmake a courtesy call on Pompidou and then leave unless there's a\nreception. If there is one, you could go for 30 minutes and leave from\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n10:30 a. m., November 10, 1970\n- 2 -\nthere. Then there would be more focus that you paid your respects\nto De Gaulle and then came back, doing no business in Europe.\nP:\nThe Bruce thing should be very low-key.\nK:\nIt should be entirely social -- paying respects to the Ambassador.\nP:\nAnd then we come back as soon as we can.\nK:\nThe time is six hours later, so it would be 2:00 by your inward\nclock. The French Ambassador called. De Gaulle's grandson is in\nNew York, and Lucet hinted we could take him over with us.\nP:\nFine. He should go.\nK:\nIt would be a nice gesture.\nP:\nInvite him to come down and go with us.\nK:\nWill we leave from Key Biscayne?\nP:\nNo, I'm flying to Washington. I'll be prepared with a morning\ncoat and business suit. The only reason I raise this point is because\ndress means more to the Europeans than to Americans.\nK:\nThe way you put it is exactly right -- you will wear whatever\nthe President wears. I will get on that immediately.\nP:\nThe other question which Haldeman raises is whether we stay\nat the Embassy or check in at a hotel. The embassy would mean a\nlot to Watson.\nK:\nThe Embassy doesn't have much room. There would be room\nfor you and one staff member, but not Bill and all the rest of the party.\nI think it would be a nice gesture. Why don't I talk to Watson and\nsee how he feels.\nP:\nThe hotel has advantages also. I could just check in and go to\nbed.\nThe advantage of the residence\nK:\nWatson has been an outstanding ambassador -- much better than\nanyone thought.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n10:30 a. m., November 10, 1970\n- 3 -\nP:\nPut it right to him. I think I should not have a staff member.\nIs there room for me, the Secretary and the valet. Don't you think\nthe Ambassador should have the Secretary of State stay with him?\nK:\nNot necessarily. You should have one staff member for\ncommunications if there is an emergency. Let me talk to Watson.\nP:\nWe can assume the Mexican for Friday?\nK:\nIf humanly possible, it will be Friday.\nP:\nWhat's the matter with McBride?\nK:\nI will get a report and call you back, and then we will know\nexactly where ;it stands.\nP:\nSay I invite him for lunch in the family quarters of the White\nHouse at 1:00 on Friday. Then we can have a meeting afterwards.\nK:\nI will be back to you, Mr. President.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSecretary Rogers\n11/10/70 10:38 a. m.\nR: I'm calling to see about going down to Florida. I was going to go\ndown tonight, but I'll try now gxcx to go down tonight. I wondered if you\nwanted to come with me.\nK: He's leaving from up here now. Are you still going down?\nR: Oh no. I was just going down to meet up with him.\nK: No, he's coming up here tonight. Thank you for suggesting it\nOtherwise I would have been happy to go with you. The Ehheverria thing\nis set for Friday, and over the weekend, he'll go to Camp David.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nAmbassador Watson\n11/10/70 10:54 a. m.\nK: I have a number of minor questions. First, Walters is coming\nback with the advance party.\nW: That's great, wonderful.\nK: Second, where to you want the President to stay?\nW: Well, where does he want to stay? I'd be delighted to put him up\nat bur house. How many will be with him? You and the Secretary?\nK: Yes, and also a valet for him?\nW: Bien sur.\nK: Why don't we do that?\nW: I think it would be much calmer. They are building an underground\nparking lot in front of the Creon. It's just during the day, but it's awfully\nnoisy.\nK: Then it will be the President, and Secretary, a valet, and I staying\nwith you.\nW: Okay if the valet is on the third floor?\nK: Sure.\nW: We can put the President in the room where you stayed. Have you\nnext door and the Secretary in the Lindbergh room. Any ladies?\nK: No.\nW: Is just one room all right for the President?\nK: Yes, it's just for one night.\nW: Tomorrow night?\nK: Yes.\nW: Will you need a meal?\nK: A light snack maybe. Maybe a snack and something to drink.\nW: I will have something just in case. We are very flexible. X\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nAmbassador Watson\n11/10/70 10:54 a. m. page 2\nK: I have recommended to him that he stay with you.\nW: I said we can be very flexible and I'd like to put up anybody\nwe can.\nK: Let's settle on this then. Any word on dress yet?\nW: No. If it isaht too much trouble, I suggest that you bring a alark\nbusiness suit plus a morning coat.\nK: The President will want to wear whatever Pompidou wears.\nW: I hope to find that out before you leave. My contact at the Palace\njust called to say that Pompidou is deeply touched by the President's\ngesture and what he is doing, and they are urging us to kreep the delegation as\nsmall as possible. I said it would be the President, the Secretary of State,\nand Dr. Kissinger.\nK: That's exactly right.\nW: The Germans tried to bring in ten.\nK: No, that's exactly right.\nW: Do you want any appointments?\nK: He would like to see only Pompidou for a courtesy call.\nW: All right. How about you and Rogers?\nK: I don't think we ought to do any business.\nW: That's my instinct, but I wanted to make sure.\nK: It should be a tribute to deGaulle and nothing else. One thing we\nshould do is shake hands with Bruce for 10 minutes. Can he come by?\nW: Yes.\nK: We should XXX make it very short, so it is clear that this isn't business.\nW: Okay, when do you expect to leave?\nK: Are they giving a reception afterward?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nAmbassador Watson\n11/10/70 10:54 a. m. page 3\nW: I don't know yet. They are in an absolute tizzy, but that's a\nquestion I have in.\nK: The thought is that\nthe mass will probably last an hour or\nwhatever. The thought is that he will pay a courtesy call on Pompidou\nand leave. Or pay a courtesy call on Pompidou, to the reception, if there\nis one, for 15 minutes, and then leave. The whole idea is that we are\npaying tribute to deGaulle. We are there for no other business than pay-\ning tribute to deGaulle.\nW: I will stress this if we get any questions from the dress.\nK: At the moment I am trying to murder the Press Secretary so he\ndoesn't take two hundred people.\nW: I've gotten a request for 100 press accomodations.\nK: I want to knock that down. Don't you think that's too heavy on press?\nW: Yes, with Air Force Once and Air Force Two and advance planes and\na press plane, that's quite a few people.\nK: I take it the widow will be in Colombe?\nW: Yes.\nK: How far is that?\nW: About two hours by car.\nK: How about choppers; I don't suppose they would be available.\nW: I'm sure we could get some down from Germany.\nK: I was wondering about choppering fo Colombe, paying respects and\nthen leaving.\nW: I can check.\nK: But don't tell everyone.\nW: I won't mention this possibility to anyone.\nK: But I would like to know the logistics.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nAmbassador Watson\n11/10/70 10:54 a.m. page 4\nW: They have announced that no one will be there officially, but I\nwill find out the logistics. I am sure they could get a chopper from Germany.\nK: Okay. Many thanks.\nW: One other small thing. Would it be possible for me to hitch a ride\nback to the U.S. with you?\nK: I don't know, but why don't you assume yes. I think the plane will\nvery probably be emply until the hangers-on start xxpeaxion operating.\nW: I can fly back commerically if I have to -- it's a personal thing\nwith my children. They really want to keep it small as far as Notre Dame\nis concerned.\nK: I understand.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nThe President\n10 Nov 70; 11:00 a. m.\nK: The Echeverria thing is set for Friday.\nP: One o'clock. Great. They are probably delighted.\nK: They are happy. I have just talked to Watson. He had a message\nfrom Pompidou to you to tell you how moved he is by this account of your\ncoming over and how much it means to them. They have not yet decided about\nthe dress.\nP: Did you tell Watson\n?\nK: That you want to wear whatever hx Pompidou wears.\nP: Tell him I was prepared to wear morning coat. Because he ought to\nwear a morning coat.\nK: I put it exactly that way to them. But that you will be guided by whatever\nPompidou wears.\nP: I rather think the French cynicism will be moved by this.\nK: Offcourse. He recommends that you, the Secretary of State and I\nstay with him. He doesn't have a suite, but he has a large bedroom for\nyou. But no sitting room.\nP: I don't give a damn about sittingrooms. What does he have for Rogers?\nK: The same thing. He has three large guest bedrooms, but none of them\ncut into a suite.\nP: How close will the hotel be, SO I can get in touch with the staff?\nK: The hotel is about 10 minutes drive, but you know Paris traffic.\nP: No problem. Everybody else will be at the hotel?\nK: Yes. The other possibility is to have Rogers in the hotel and to have\nHaldeman with you.\nP: He doesn't have any trouble. (Talked on another phone to Haldeman).\nBob says he will stay at the hotel. Be sure you put in telephone communi-\ncations with the hotel. And mentin there must be a room for my valet.\nK: There is a room for the valet.\nP: Does he understand when we come in we want to go right to bed?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President, 11:00 am, 10 Nov\n2\nK: Yes.\nP: How does Bruce work out?\nK: He will ask Bruce to come in for a 10-minute courtesy call in the\nmorning. I told him it won't be more than 10 minutes. That I think\nwill work very well.\nP: Does he anticipate that we will call on Pompidou?\nK: I have asked him to request it and he says that will definitely happen.\nHe says the chaos there is hard to imagine so we may have to be patient.\nP: That is your problem. But as soon after the funeral as possible.\nThey haven't decided on the reception yet, but they will have to have one.\nK: Show up at the reception and go right from there.\nP: They know we are damn busy.\nK: That is why we are having the Echeverria thing on Friday.\nP: Has that been announced yet?\nK: No, but we will announce that immediately.\nP: Say we are grateful to Echeverria for changing his plans, and that the\nPresident is going to the memorial service.\nK: The one thing Watson pled for is to keep the thing as austere as possible.\nAs little press as possible.\nP: Press! Shit, I don't want any press.\nK: About one hundred are coming. We have been asked to book 100 rooms.\nP: We don't bring the press. We will just try to cut it down. We will\ndo our best to keep the press down.\nms\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSecretary Rogers\n11/10/70 11:10 a. m.\nK: I'm sorry to keep plaguing you but I wanted to keep you posted.\nR: We're taking off from Atlanta Georgia?\nK: Don't joke like that -- somebody may see some press value in it.\nXX If it's all right with you, You, the President and I will stay with Watson.\nIt's K: a little cramped and there are no sitting rooms, but we thought it\nmight be the best arrangement. And the official delegation, if it's all right\nwith you, will be the President, you, Watson and me. Watson called with\na lot of technical stuff; =he feels this is the fight signexxxx size delegation.\nThe Germans wanted to send 10 and the French had conniptions.\nR: I think one of these things, such a short thing, doesn't make all\nthat much difference.\nK: No.\nR: What time are we leaving?\nK: That's not settled yet. Ziegler wanted 100 press people over\nther and I think that's insanity. Don't you?\nR: I don't know enough about it. The important thing is to get in and\nout. Otherwise we'll be getting all eerts of political questions about who\ndid you see\nK: He wants to go in, go to sleep, go to the service, make a call on\nPompidou and leave. And I don't think either of us should have appointments.\nDon't you agree?\nR: a don't want one unless it means something. I don't want to have an\nappointment just to be having one. It's getting where\nwe ought to be able\nto just go to a funeral and enjoy it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nAmbassador Lucet\n11/10/70 ca. 11:15 a. m.\nK: We will be delighted to take the greand graddson.\nL: Thank you very much.\nK: We will be delighted to take him on Xx Air Force One. We'll\nbe leaving from Washington. So if you can get him down here.\nL: What time will you be leaving?\nK: I think we leave at 10:00 or 11:00.\nL: I will tell him to be in this city this afternoon.\nK: Right.\nL: Thaink Thank you very much. That's very kind of the President and\nyourself.\nK: And whom should my staff be in touch with about details so I don't\nhave tok keep bothering you.\nL: Jacques Leprette, my number two.\nK: Good. and does he want to come back with us?\nL: I don't think so, no.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nAmb. Watson\n11/10/70; 1:00 p.m.\nW: I haven't been very helpful on the dress. Nobody knows. They are\nstill meeting about it. You should bring both the cutaway as well as the\ndark business suit.\nK: OK.\nW: The other item you asked about - it is about 200 kilometers ride by\nchopper. I found by chance there was a pad right near the fellow's house.\nK: Anyway, about one hour to fly there.\nW: I am not sure whether it should be done, but will try to get some\nbetter feel.\nK: My judgment would be to drop it.\nW: Mine too.\nK: I haven't raised it with the President, so why don't we just drop it.\nThe logistics of moving whole operation there and back would be too much.\nW: And then too, the family will be in some degree of shock about the\nwhole thing.\nK: One other thing - will you make sure De Gaulle's grandson has\ntransportation over there. We are bringing him over on Air Force One.\nW: Yes. That is very helpful to know. Anything else?\nK: I have talked with the President. He accepts with pleasure staying at\nyour place, and so does the Secretary of State.\nW: That is wonderful. We will act accordingly and be in touch as to\nwhen you are getting in. I will be at the airport.\nK: He will not want to do a hell of a lot when he gets in. You might have\na little snack ready just in case. Keep in mind he will want to go to bed\nright quickly.\nW: We will play it very cool. All he has to do is tell us. You have probably\nheard that Kosygin and Heath are coming.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon-Watson-11/10/70; 1:00 p.m.\n2\nK: No, I haven't.\nW: That is definite now. I am delighted that you got there first. Have\nyou cut down the press?\nK: We have tried to but these people charter their own plane and we\ncan't keep them away.\nW: The logistics of the thing would be tough, and furthermore they all\nhave correspondents here.\nK: Have you talked to Bruce?\nW: I have told him to stand by around 9:00.\nK: From 9:00 to 9:30.\nW: I can detect your fine hand in this, Henry, because it is all working\nout so well. You are great.\nms\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nNo Objection to Declassification in Part 2010/06/02 : NLN-TELCONS-7-6-121-5\nTELECON\nAmbassador Johnson/Mr. Kissinger\n2:30 p.m., November 10, 1970\n25X1\nK:\nThat sounds reasonable. I don't think we have a basis for\npromising a non-existent standstill.\nJ:\nI have proposed to hold them off on this basis for the timebeing\nbut to keep our right open. What time do you leave tomorrow?\nK:\nI guess 10:00 or 11:00.\nJ: I'll see you when we get back.\nON-FILE NSC RELEASE\nK:\nCan you come by at 6:00?\nINSTRUCTIONS APPLY\nJ:\nI will try to get by before I go to a 7:00 dinner.\nlds\nState Dept. review completed\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\ndocument has OrdeR/13526 and\nTelecon\nDwight Chapin\n10/10/70 3:25 p.m.\nK: How eager are you to add these two? We notified the French that it\nwould be only four.\nC: I was waiting for a recommendation from you.\nK: My feeling is\nI don't mind dropping out myself, so it isn't a\nquestion of personalities. But it's not appropriate to have three White House\nstaffers, the Secretary of State and the President.\nC: The question comes up that since they are two cabinet members and\nthey are going to be there anyway, is it not inappropriate not to have them\ncome?\nK: Whose question?\nC: Bob's. But I don't think there will be a problem on it.\nK: The French have asked us to keep the number very small.\nC: Okay, we'll keep it like it is now - - the President, Rogers, you and\nWatson.\nK: It is better not to have to go back to the Franch. It is now 10:00 at\nnight there and they have already been given that request.\nC: Okay, no problem. We'll leave it as it is. Any word on the Pompidou\nappointment?\nK: No.\nC: Do they know we want it as early as possible?\nK: Yes, and I will get a line set up between the Creon and the\nAmbassador's residence for Bob.\nC: We'll take care of that.\nK: Okay. You do it, much better. What time are we leaving tomorrow?\nC: 10:55 from the South Lawn.\nK: Right, and you know the graddson is with us?\nC: That was very nice of you.\nK: The President approved it.\nC: I know Henry.\nThank\nyou.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nWalt Rostow\n11/10/70 3:30p.m.\nR: I know you are busy.\nK: Not at all.\nR: Reason I'm calling, President Johnson has been approached in\nconfidence by Bui Diem as to whether he would be prepared to receive\nKy at the end of the month after he has been in Washington. The Pres-\nident's response was this: 1) he would be glad to do it, but only if it\nis regarded as a good idea by the President and 2) if you thought it a\ngood idea, he wants to know the points President Nixon wants to under-\nline with Ky. He wants to make no move whatsoever except as President\nNixon wants it done.\nK: Aren't you nice. I will ask the President, may I?\nR: Sure. Do you have just another minute? Let me pass along\nI have been to London. On Vietnam I suggest you give some thought in\nlight of inclightx intelligence coming from Hanoi, that they are having\nsome difficult morale problems on the field as well as at home, that you\ngive a real push in psychological warfare. I get word that for the first\ntime in the whole thing leaflets saying go home, work the farms, grow\nsome rice, raise some kids that's something the army in the field and\nthe people at home may be ready to listen to.\nK: Let me take a look at that.\nR: Okay.\nK: Nice to talk to you.\n[At end of conversation with Rostow, Mr. Kissinger turned away from phone\nand said \"David, make sure I do something about that. \"]\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nProfessor Hoffmann\n11/10/70; 7:30 p.m.\nK: Do you want to join the delegation?\nH: That is what I was calling about, literally. Are you going?\nK: Yes,\nH: Is there any way one could join?\nK: No. It is not my decision. We have turned down Senators. It is\nan intriguing thought though. Do you mean the delegation, or just to\nget to Paris.\nH: Frankly, I hadn't thought of that distinction.\nK: It is absolutely impossible because you know we have turned down\ngenerals and wartime associates. The President just wanted 4 people\nthere. But you have more claim to it than most of us in fact, than\nall of us.\nH: Well.\nK: Did you get my letter?\nH: I did and I wrote to you yesterday.\nK: If we can find some way without setting a precedent. There is no\nway they could come down?\nH: Half of them could. I am trying to scrape some X money for half of\nthem. I don't think I could get more.\nK: If you can get money for half, I can get money for the others. I have\nthe money (paraphrased: but this is a delicate matter.) Let me take\na check. (speaking again of the trip to Paris) I think it is practically\nout of the question. I hope you and Inga will come down soon for that\ndinner.\nH: I hope so. It will be a great pleasure.\nK: Fine. Goodbye.\nms\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Amb. Sullivan\n8:05 p.m., November 10, 1970\nK:\nLBJ called me and said that Ky had requested to see him.\nS:\nYes.\nK:\nAnd wanted guidance. What do we tell him?\nS:\nI see no harm, it would be after he sees President Nixon.\nK:\nThink it would ba a cheap thing to pay.\nS:\nTwo things, (1) definitely could not see him before he could see\nPresident Nixon and (2) would have to work it out on his own. He\napparently called down there\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nThe weekend after Thanksgiving, after he had been to Washington.\nHave you talked at all with him?\nK:\nThe President?\nS:\nYes.\nK:\nNo, but I will.\nS:\nHave you talked with the Vice President?\nK:\nNo, but I will, right now in fact.\nS:\nI got a call from Kent Crane urging\nK:\nI got that meeting cancelled.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Director Helms\nNovember 11, 1970 9:45 a. m.\n(paraphrased)\njlj\nK: Dick, I have now read your paper and I am restive (?) about it. I\ndo not want some xhxixgx thing foreordained conclusion.\nH: Henry, I am getting fed up with this and so are my men.\nK: It is a simple problem.\n45 goddamn battalions in to an area\nthat didn't exist and they were hidden there until the standstill ceasefire\nzone was announced and then they were moved. The ceasefire was\nannounced they were brought out and moved. On the face of it is an\nabsurdity.\nH: What do you want me to do about it?\nK: I want a statement of the facts.\nH: What facts?\nK: If we are going to have\nI will take this to the President and\nfind out what evidence.\nH: But then all I get back from you is this Haig nonsense about no evidence\nthat I am sleeping with my secretary\nK:\nwas not hidden in there\nH: Do you want a paper directed solely to this point?\nK: The evidence. Soirees (?), airplane hangers. Evidence that anything\nMXIXSX of that magnitude was moved into that area. I\nwould\nDECLASSIFIED\nlike to get it this way or I will get you all together again and we will go\nE.O. 13526, Section 3.5\nPER RAC REVIEW 6/12/2008\nJHS NARA, Date 8/20/2012\nthrough the whole bloody drill again. Making your little speeches.\nH: Henry, I am very sorry about this. I was told that all you wanted was\nBy\npaper\nagreement about winkations what the violations were.\nK: Next phase\nmay have been\ncould have been\nin that area\n(Mr. Kissinger focusing on something Gen. Haig was saying and not really\ntalking to Director Helms.) I have got another memorandum from Dave\nPackard that makes another issue of this. I am concerned about the\nintegrity of the intelligence that is going to the President.\n45 SAM\nbattalions moved into the standstill zone were hidden and after the ceasefire\nwere brought out and moved. I suppose then you will tell me that 114\nempty flatcars were moved into the standstill zone. I have to have the\nopinion that everytime I get a memorandum from Defense I can count on\nit that it will be leaked sooner or later.\nH: You will have a paragraph or two by the time you get back from Paris. I am\nnow with the problem and you will get something from us.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nCp. 1 of 13\nNo Objection To Declassification 2008/06/12 NLN-TELCONS-7-6-123-3\nTELCON\nHelms/Kissinger\n10:10 a. m. 11/13/70\nH: How was the trip?\nK: Good.\nH: I'm glad.\nK: The only thing I want with that paper is to have it signed by someone to give\nit status.\nH: Is it satisfactory?\nK: It's what I wanted.\n25X1\nK: I am interested.\nPRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY REVIEW OF NSC EQUITY IS REQUIRED\nJHS 8/20/2012\nNo Objection To Declassification 2008/06/12 : NLN-TELCONS-7-6-123-3\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/U.A. Johnson\nNovember 13, 1970 12:05 p.m.\n(paraphrased)\njlj\nJ: I have a couple of things Henry. The Ky visit. It has been set of that he\nwill tour military installations. The Embassy worked it out with Defense but\nLaird now said they would not pick up the tab for it.\nK: I have already overruled that.\nJ: Have you seen the text on Cuba.\nK: Yes, I like that. I think that is good. I talked to the Secretary on the\nplane yesterday, I don't know if you have talked to him or not, and I just gave\nhim the gist of it. I did not have that exact text but we did talk about it.\nJ: I worked it out after we discussed it. Frankly, I had a little trouble with\nworking out the wording. In connection with that. Fascell is pressing for\nhearings and wants an answer by Monday.\nK: What do you think?\nJ: I think we have to go up. Question of who does it. I think the finger\npoints at me but that is something we can work out.\nK: You won't get any argument from me.\nJ: Ben Wells was around to see me yesterday. Times is doing a\nCienfuegos article. Gist of it was we have been taken in badly and we\nbuilt up the story and took credit for getting them out and now they are\nback in - whole thing back. He had the fact that I sent a memorandum to\nyou on the subject.\nK: When in hell did you send a memorandum to me.\nJ: Quite awhile ago. Only I and Ray Gartoff (phonetic) knew about it over here\nat State and you over there. Only the three of us knew that it existed.\nK: Oh yes. WX You drew it up on a contingency basis and then we did not use\nit.\nJ: It actually never came about. He said they had from defense that a Y-class\nsubmarine had put in to Cienfuegos.\nK: That's not true. A Yankee class submarine?\nJ: That's what he said. I told him before you go to press on it you better\ncheck with DOD and make sure that that tender is still there. I made it sound\nlike there was a question whether it would still be there or not.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRogers/Kissinger\n12:20 pm\n11/13/70\nK: I just want to see how you feel.\nR: Larengitis and a bad cold. Standing out by the Cathedral and getting wet\ndidn't help.\nK: Snd when you can't change your clothes for 10 hours.\nR: And the plane is cole. I am a little contagious and I didn't £ want to\nexpose anyone. I know the Mexican lunch will be very substantive. The\nPresident will think I made this up.\nK: I don't know what he will talk about.\nR: I talked to McCloskey about Cuba.\nK: Alex had a xxxxxxx message which we agreed to.\nR: McCloskey ????. . Anything you agree to is fine with me.\nK: OK, Bill. Hope you feel better.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nHaldeman/Kissinger\n12:20 pm\n11/13/70\nH: On the list of ambassadors to be replaced, the name of Ed Martin did not\nappear. The President is disturbed. Anything done about him?\nK: Not to my knowledge. This is only preliminary. He has done nothing in\nhis present incarnation. I know it's on his past perkx performance.\nH: You haven't put anything in motion on that.\nK: About a year ago I told Elliot Richardson we wanted him moved but nothing\nhas happened.\nH: Is he an ambassador?\nK: Yes, in Geneva to OECD or something.\nH: OK.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Attorney General Mitchell\nNovember 13, 1970 5:40 p.m.\n(paraphrased)\njlj\nK: John, I first of all did not know that you had been invited to this meeting.\nWe only had one piddling item. $25, 000 item.\nM: Could take that out of petty cash.\nK: I didn't realize that you were waiting. There is no meeting that I conduct\nthat you are not welcome at. We would have kept you waiting by bringing you\ninto the Middle East meeting. I am very sorry.\nM: Henry, that's quite all right.\nK: Anyone as busy as you are who is nice enough to agree to come to our\nmeetings should not be treated this way.\nM: Well, I was able to get back and get on with my work.\nK: If there is ever a meeting going on you are invited.\nM: I guessed you solved all the problems in the Middle East today.\nK: No, well, we are going to wait so we can peak for the 1972 election.\nSomething that good should not be wasted.\nM: There is a lot in that.\nK: John, my apologies.\nM: Henry, it was nice of you to call. It was unnecessary but I appreciate it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Crnobrnja/kissinger\n5:50 pm\n11/13/70\nK: You are up to something no good.\nC: Definitely. How are you? Very busy?\nK: Always. khawen** Even if I weren't I wouldn't tell you because you would\nreport to Belgrade and they would think I am no longer XK influential.\nC: I received two days ago a news reel about the President's visit to Yugoslavia.\nI saw it and it's not long. I am sure the President and Madame would like it.\nWhat's the best way to hand it over? I have no special request. I only\nthink that I would like is that the President is pleased.\nK: Let me discuss it with them. We will work out a suitable means. Let\nme not guess. Then you would find out my advice is not always taken and I\ncouldn't take it.\nC: As a news reel it is done by our motion picture company which regularly\nturns out news of the week and it's sent to the cinema theaters all over Yugoslavia.\nIt's normal so the President may value it more. It lasts about 10-12 mins.\nK: Am I in it?\nC: I think so. Modestly but you are.\nK: I get the point. I will immediately take action and get back to you next\nweek. Very thoughtful of you. There's something wrong with you if you deal\nwith me and give me something. Usually I loose my shirt with you.\nC: I cannot recall. I think its two way traffic and it's as if should be.\nK: You will hear from me on Tues.\nC: On Wed. I am going to Boston to compete with you at Harvard.\nK: At least you are from a socialist country which makes it safer for you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSecretary Laird\n11/13/70 ca. 6:00 p.m.\nL: Tell me something\nStennis wants\nI've got a letter\nhere\nbeen having a problem on it. In the appropriations act that\npassed last year there was language that we cannot useground\ntroops in Laos, in Thailand. When he puts the bill out, he feels it will\nsave him considerable difficulties and he feels he has it from the Pres-\nident and does not feel it will cause any problems if he adds\nthe one word \"Cambodia. 11 This causes no problem except\nK: How about various operations like Storm House?\nL: Storm House and Prairie Fire\nwe interpret that as not\napplying. I have testified that it is not a use of ground troops. They\nThe amendment only applied to massive movements of ground forces.\nWe've gone right ahead as far as Laos is concerned.\nK: The President never committed himself to not going back in. He\ndoesn't intend to, but he doesn't want the other side to think we won't.\nL: I would like not to take a position on this, but if Stennis has to,\nlet him do it on his own.\nK: I hate to txix give them that much assurance always.\nL: My problem is Stennis feels he can't win on that thing in the\nSenate and it may come out applying to other operations. I don't want to\nbroaden it. The language would be exactly as it is: Laos and Thailand\nbut it adds Cambodia.\nK: And it prohibits us on\nL: \"Combat ground troops. 11 Because of the word \"combat\" we\ninterpret it not to apply to intelligence personnel\nK: Let me check it wit the President. I have a call in to him now.\nL: I don't want to say yes or no to Stennis. He feels we will get more\nrestrictive language though if we don't let him handle it.\nK: Let me check with the President.\nL: We went ahead with a fairly strong statement.\nK: Good. Has it been picked up?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSecretary Laird\n11/13/70 ca. 6:00 p.m. page 2\nL: It's on AP.\nK: Good.\nL: Did you have a chance to look over that private memo.\nK: Yes. I think it would be a good idea if you cleaned it up a bit --\ntaking out the parts that are personal to the President -- andthen put it to\nother principals.\nL: That's all right with me.\nK: I have read it with the greatest interest. It's a very thoughtful\npaper.\nL: Has the Presdient\nK: It's in the President's reading. He would have read it in Key\nBiscayne, but the deGaulle thing threw everything off. Let's give him a\nweek to go over it.\nL: Okay.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Yoshida/Mr. Kissinger\nNovember 13, 1970\n6:25\np.m.\njlj\n(paraphrased)\nY: I should like to give you the following message from my friend. It is now\n8:30 a. m. here. He is holding a final meeting this morning in a half an hours\ntime. He will make a decision. Then instructions will be sent and our counter\nproposal in concrete terms will be sent to our permanent representative in 6\nhours time. It was to be done yesterday. Mr. M has been working day and\nnight. My friend and his associates have made the decision to go ahead without\nthe consent of the industry.\nK: What does it mean without consent of the industry?\nY: Government will propose\nK: But can they implement this without the industry.\nY: They will have to be. By legal means. That is the political price he will\nhave to pay. Last night Mr. M had a final meeting with our industry. Plan\ndrafted by Mr. M. Now my friend decided that it cannot wait any longer and\nmy friend will exercise his power to make an agreement, including legal\nmeans so that the industry will have to go along. It will be no longer\nvoluntary. Forced course by the Government. Industry will have to follow\nThis is the political price my friend will have to pay. In a free society like\nourselves industry has a strong voice.\nif they do not listen there will be\nno agreement between us but my friend has made a decision.\nK: That is very courageous.\nY: We will have a counter proposal for you which our\nprobably early\ntomorrow morning your time. It will not be exactly as you proposed but it is\nnow very clear. My own fxidx friend and M do\nK: Is this final or is it something we can discuss?\nY: Certainly we can discuss it. And then we can come to terms with you.\nThe timing on this. They would like to get something by Sunday night or\nWednesday (couldn¹t hear this word clearly) night at the latest. My friend\nasked me to tell you that he was sorry that the presentation of our counter\nproposal was delayed by one day but in 6 hours time it will be presented.\nI hope that you expert will be prepared to work the entire weekend.\nK: I will call them immediately.\nY: This will not be the final one. Certainly to be discussed between us. The\npress had leaked\nit has to take the form of negotiations. But my friend\nis determined and determination of my friend is very firm so is the attitude\nof Mr. M. He said that in public we will reach an agreement.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK: Let me get in touch with Mr. Flanigan.\nY: Will you do that. I should be getting in touch with you again. I am anxious\nto know the reactions of Mr. F to our counter proposal as soon as possible.\nK: I will get in touch with you. Thank you for calling. Goodby.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n7:19 p. m., November 13, 1970\nP:\nHenry, a late report today.\nK:\nI have a few relatively minor things I wanted to run over with you.\nP:\nOkay.\nH:\nThe North Vietnamese shot down a reconnaissance plane inside North\nVietnamese today.\nP:\nHas it been reported?\nK:\nLaird made a very strong statement today.\nP:\n???\nK:\nDon't do it now until that other operation goes into effect. I have\ntalked to Moorer about it.\nP:\nWhat?\nK:\nIt's part of that whole sequence of events we are going to hit up and\nP:\nHit everything, the seven choke points and Binh. [We are going to get\nthe blame anyhow, we may as well get the blame for everything. ] We\ndon't want to fool around, I'm not going to fool around anymore.\nK:\nHit every supply dump in that area.\nP:\nOtherwise it is not a new signal, it is an old signal.\nK:\nThis can be very starchy. The press is starting to play around again\nwith the Cienfuegos [thing and the fact that the\nare still there. ]\nI am going to meet with Dobrynin in the Map Room again tomorrow.\nP:\nI wonder why they did that.\nK:\nJust trying to prove\ngoing out, there's no sense in it anyway.\nThey are a petty bunch.\nP:\nThey are pretty small.\nK:\nIf they had gotten it over four weeks ago\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\n[paraphrased]\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n7:19 p.m., November 13, 1970\nP:\nWhether they get it out or we put them\no\nK:\nI would like to convey something like that, if you agree.\nP:\nYou do it.\nK:\nPaul Hoffman, head of\nP:\nHe's the 95-year old, isn't he ?\nK:\nYes, U Thant is thinking of reappointing him.\nP:\nNever.\nK:\nAlex Johnson suggested David Bell might be a good man.\nP:\nHe is a carry-over from the Kennedy Administration, I don't want\nanyone from the Kennedy Administration. Goddamm, Alex knows\nbetter than that.\nK:\nHe just thought he might be a good man since he was one of those\nconsidered for the Under Secretary position that Eliot Richardson now has.\nP:\nI'm not taking any hold overs.\nK:\nThere is the Portugese Foreign Minister, will you see him?\nP:\nI will not see him.\nK:\n???\nP:\nRogers raised it with me too, and I will not see him under any\ncircumstances, don't raise it with me again Henry. I won't see the\nPortugese Foreign Minister, nor the Spanish, nor the\nor any\nof the others.\nK:\nI just wanted to raise it with you.\nP:\nDon't raise it with me again, you've got to have rules and I've got\nthe rule and I won't see them.\nK:\nAll right, okay, Mr. President.\nP:\nDid you make the call to France?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n7:19 p.m., November 13, 1970\nK:\nBecause of the difference in time, I haven't been able to but I will\nhave the report for you by tomorrow afternoon.\nP:\nWhen you see Dobrynin, take a hard line because we can't fool around\nwith him now. We are going to know this affects our relations right\ndown to the core.\nK:\nRight, ????.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\n[synopsis]\nMr. Kissinger/Peter Flanigan\n7:45 p. m., November 13, 1970\nK:\nPeter, where are you?\nF:\nOn the Florida/Georgia border shooting birds.\nK:\nI'm glad I know someone from the upper class.\nF:\nWhat about the Textiles? Wanted to make sure that they approved of\nwhat we proposed.\nK:\nThey are meeting right now to make their counter-proposal and will\nreach here by morning.\nF:\nThey were hoping they would be having a proposal tonight.\nK:\nHere's the problem, they want to put before me, they are meeting at\n6 o'clock and they are going to have their proposal in about six hours.\nThey will not be able to get the agreement of their industry and this\nwill not be their final proposal which I assume will not be acceptable.\nSomething definitely by Monday night.\nF:\nHere I've been sitting on my butt for three weeks and they come back\nand want to have it in two days\nK:\nThey have to have legislation, it can't be gotten voluntary. ???\nF:\nI told the Ambassador today and I have a date with him for 3 p.m. on\nSunday (or Monday -- couldn't understand).\nK:\nWell, come back at 3:00 p.m. on Monday and say screw them. I just\nwanted you to know and be aware of what's going on. Don't use that\nIrish temper on me Flanigan, I have an Irish girlfriend and\nF:\nI didn't mean it with regard to you but I meant it with regard to them.\nK:\nThe trouble with you is that you are a racist.\nF:\nWhat?\nK:\nYou don't like yellow people.\nF:\nWhat do you think?\nK:\nI think it is outrageous, if the thing leaks out and they have to wait\nanother two weeks, that is okay. (?)\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Peter Flanigan\n[synopsis]\n7:45 p. m., November 13, 1970\nF:\n???\nK:\nThey are going to screw us anyway face it so they can't get it through\ntheir parliment.\nF:\nIf they want to meet on a weekend and I meet them on Sunday, it will\nhave to be okay.\nK:\nWhat are you doing anyway?\nF:\nI'm down here with Bill Candle shooting birds\n[Discussion followed about shooting birds, getting Mr. Kissinger to\ndrink and sell pepsi colas]\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Prof. Stanley Hoffman\n& Mrs. Hoffman\n8:27 p.m., November 13, 1970\nH:\nHenry, how are you?\nK:\nStanley, I never got back to you that evening.\nH:\nDidn't expect you to.\nK:\n[We were] limited to four people on each delegate.\nH:\nYou are done and already back.\nK:\nIt was very beautifully done.\nH:\nIt was on 7 a. m. American time, aren't you completely pooped?\nK:\nI am very tired. It was beautifully done, when the people were walking\ndown\n.\nAppears to have been totally spontaneous.\nH:\nHe fully deserved it.\nK:\nThe\nwas completely desolate.\nH:\nWhy did they have to put Pompidou on that special chair?\nK:\nDon't know, certainly when you think how many people try to get along.\nI looked around at the statesman and there wasn't one that would have\nbeen mourned the way he was. We took DeGaulle's grandson with us.\nH:\nI knew that. I made an appointment to see you.\nK:\nOh good.\nH:\nThe 24th.\nK:\nWe are having lunch. We will get the money for the university as long\nas some contribution from the university is made. Is this the\nobnoxious bunch?\nH:\nThey are studying\na change in climate as long as you can keep\nthe Vice President from returning it to what it was.\nK:\nThink his ability would be much less then what it was.\nH:\nThank you very much for calling.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Prof. Stanley Hoffman\n& Mrs. Hoffman\n8:27 p.m., November 13, 1970\nK:\nSee you on the 24th.\nH:\nHere,\nwants to speak to you.\nMrs. H:\n???\nK:\nI didn't know you spoke German so well.\nMrs. H:\n???\nK:\nDidn't think all these socialites\nMrs. H:\nI saw you live.\nK:\nWhere?\nMrs. H:\nThat interview about you.\nK:\nYou mean the Margaret Osmer thing. Barbara Howar, she ruins my\nreputation completely.\nMrs. H:\nHow was Paris?\nK:\nVery interesting day to be there, of course, quite moving. Just go in\nfor the funeral and leave again. I was present with Pompidou at the\nmeeting so, but very little business.\nMrs. H:\nYes, I could see the President was very moved.\nK:\nHe admired De Gaulle, he really did. He was very impressed with him.\nMrs. H: Yeah.\nK:\nWhen you do your psychology of this President.\nMrs. H:\nI don't think I will.\nK:\nI think you will think it was a fascinating subject.\nMrs. H: Maybe with you [urging] me I might. I could see he was very moved by\nthe expression on his face, he was entirely caught up in the\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Prof. Stanley Hoffman\n& Mrs. Hoffman\n8:27 p. m., November 13, 1970\nK:\nWhat moved him very much was when we were leaving the Church and\nthey started playing the March\no\nMrs. H:\nHe was standing next to the\nabsolutely spellbound while\neverybody else around him was chattering away.\nK:\nWas this outside the Church? Nothing going on then.\nMrs. H:\n???\nK:\nIt was nice to talk to you.\nMrs. H:\nIt was nice of you to call us.\nK:\nWanted Stanley to go\nMrs. H:\nHe was too tired to go by himself, next time.\nK:\nNo, we won't see many like him in our lifetime. I am still counting on\nyou and Stanley to come down for dinner. I have talked to\nabout it.\nMrs. H:\nYou can call at the last minute.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Brian McDonnell\nNovember 14, 1970 8:55 a. m.\n(paraphrased)\njlj\n(Late in conversation because carrying out HAK instructions.)\nK: You are going to be staying at the Royaltian? (phonetic)\nM: Royaltian.\nK: You stay there through tomorrow? How long are you staying?\nM: Monday I think. Alice is going to the convent tomorrow morning.\nK: You should go with her. I promised her I would scold you. I did not\nknow you had lived there.\nM: Yes. Coeducational convent. The 18 nuns are very\nK: I did not know that.\nM: Yes.\nK: That is nice.\nM: How are you doing Henry?\nK: Are you coming to Washington soon? When will youxbikekyx are you\nlikely to come through again.\nM: In about 2 weeks. I will call you before I come down.\nK: If I am down tomorrow maybe I will\nM: If you decide to come have one of the girls call me.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Director Helms\n(paraphrased)\nNovember 14, 1970 9:20 a. m.\njlj\nK: Do not yell at me. (Director Helms had been addressing someone aside.)\nH: I wasn't yelling at you. I was talking to Tom Karamessines.\nK: Dick I just wanted to let you know on the state of play.\nH: I have been in touch with Moorer and Laird to see if they wanted\na briefing on this. Apparently we have been proceeding in the wrong\nway on this. We have been meeting for the last 4-5 days. We assumed\nthey would report to the principals but they haven't. Dick Kennedy was\nin for your staff. Dennis Dolan for Laird and Britain for the JCS.\nOne of these things will work out.\nK: We will get it settled by noon or else we will get them all in the\nsituation room. I don't see this 3 battalions. I think 7 or nothing.\nH: I have had Gen. Cushman take a hard look at this - being a Marine\nGeneral and all - and he says they should hit hard and get out and not\nmess around with a show of little force.\nK: I have not told the President but I know how he feels.\nH: He has been pushing for the past two months.\nK: He has been pushing you all summer. On this exfiltration - how\ncrucial is this.\nH:\ngot ideas too but I asked for more information on that.\nK: This decision does not have to be done today does it.\nH: That is correct.\nK: It will be done today.\nH: Henry, I deeply appreciate your support.\nK: Well, you have it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelConHAK/Harlow/Shultznm\n10:30:11/14/70 - re Mills Bill\n(Sorry - I missed quite a bit of this)\nH:\nShultz and I felt we had to talk to you.\nHAK:\nWell, I don't ordinarily return a Cabinet member's call, but when\ntwo are calling, felt I had to.\nH:\nGeorge and I are deeply concerned about the Mills Bill because it\ncomes up in the House next week. Do you recall that W meeting we\nhad - what we said?\nHAK: I remember we stated we don't like the language a bit, it is distasteful.\nWe will accept it only if it is not changed to make it worse.\nH:\nIf you are cloudy about what was said, may I give you a reminder as I\nremember it.\nHAK: Well, I wouldn't want to go before a court.\nH:\nThe important thing is not what we recollect but what they believe\nwe said.\nHAK: You said don't lock yourself into a vetoposition.\nThe President as I remember said that it was distasteful as it was\nbut it might have a useful bargaining purpose. The President said\nwell in some respects it might be useful to have it and I don't mind\nthe pressure. That was the critical discussion and I don't remember\nit in detail.\n(Mr. Harlow and Dr. K when discussing the bill - Mr. Harlow said\nhe thought the President was referring to shoes - Dr. K felt he\nwas referring to textiles.)\nSchultz Re Rogers memo, but I think this won't give you anything. The\nSecretary of State will chair the meeting\nI don't think this\nwill get you anything.\nHAK: Laird is trying to play you and me against each other.\nS:\nI had lunch with Moorer yesterday.\nHAK: I think he should deal with me on strategic doctrine.\nS:\nHe hasn't been able to make himself clear to me.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nHAK: It is not a major problem. May I call when when I am back in my\noffice.\nS:\nI would like you to meet George Saber (? spelling)\nHAK: I will stick my head in there when I am free.\nS:\nI don't think he will be here then.\nHAK: Sorry - - I have to go to a meeting on the otherside.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nU-Secretary Irwin/Mr. Kissinger\nNovember 14, 1970 11:10 a. m.\n(paraphrased)\njlj\nI: Mel Laird called me on this NATO DBQ and I thought he would be\ncalling you on it and I wanted to talk to you first. However, I have had\nmy people get in touch with your people and it all seems to be on the\nright track now.\nK: He always threatens these things. I just think that if we put in\nthe caveat that has not been in DBQ before they will regard that as a\nchange of position.\nI:\nCongressional\nK: Why does he want it in?\nI: Well, it is a factor involved.\nK: It has been a factor for 10 years, why now?\nI: His point was it would look as if the Administration had not made\nup its own mind. Various caveats.\nK:\nI know what he wants He wants to pull forces out and when\nhe doesn't get his way in the Administration he goes to the Congressional\nCommittees.\nI: In the meeting next week will be the big push as far as the question\nof a decision. Our people agreed with your people. One word change.\nI originally thought he would call you.\nK: I haven't seen it so I don't have an opinion.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nAmbassador John Freeman/Mr. Kissinger\nNovember 14, 1970 11:25 a. m.\n(paraphrased)\njlj\nF: I wanted to give you enough time to recover from Paris and the\nMexican President. I have three things I want to go over with you.\nOne is rather delicate but just between ourselves. I have been asked\nto deliver a letter from Lord Mountbatten to the President. The letter\nrefers to a conversation he had with the President and in the middle\nof the letter he refers to your Spanish foreign policy. I wanted to\ntell you that this aspect of your foreign policy - your relations with\nSpain\nAll I want to say is that since he owes the President a\nletter I cannot refuse to deliver it but the British Government would use\nother channels if it were trying to tell you something about your\nSpain foreign policy. This is a private letter and he does not hold any\nformal position in the government and is not speaking for the government.\nK: I understand that completely of course. Mountbatten was under a\nmisapprehension on a number of things we have done with relation to\nSpain but that is between Mountbatten and us and not your government.\nF: I would hate for you to think that this was a subtle way in which\nGreat Britain was trying to draw something to your attention. I will,\nof course, report this to Greenhill, exactly what I have done and what\nI am saying to you now. However, this is to be considered strictly a\nprivate communication.\nK: I understand. John, as long as I have you on the phone. This is\nnot an urgent matter. In the meeting of the Berlin Ambassadors they\nwere discussing two texts. One you favored and the other was favored\nby the Soviets. While I do not pay much attention to the Berlin talks\nI was interested in knowing why you felt the way you did. The Soviet\nposition and text seemed to me to be more moderate than the one you\nsupported. I am interested simply for my education.\nform of\nwords that progress was being made when I cannot see it. This is a\nsemi-official request.\nF: I will have to do some backreading on that. I remember the cables\nbut I will have to go back and read them before I answer your question. I\nwill tell you the answer to that.\nK: We have no displeasure or anything. I am just curious how you felt\nobliged to do it. Our and your analysis seem to be the same of these things.\nF: Two other things Henry. I am just asking you these questions to find\nout the right channel. It is nothing we should be worried about.\nJohn Thompson on the India\nwould like to meet on Monday, 7th of\nDecember. Who should he talk to about this.\nK: Let him deal with Wayne Smith on my staff.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nF: Right. We will not conceal this from the State Department that he is\ncoming. They have been asking us about it ever since Chequers and when\nit was going to be followed up upon.\nK: That is fine. I have not told them that John Thompson was coming\nbut I have told them why I wanted the study done - the urgency of it -\nand told that this grew out of the Chequers meeting.\nF: Fine. We will be dealing with Wayne Smith on it.\nK: You must not count too much on the first effort of these people.\nUntil I work them over and terrorize them a bit the\nF: But I am sure that John Thompson will be helpful to you about it.\nAnother similar question. The briefing you referred to\nLord\nCarrington (phonetic)\nMen (phonetic - man's name) will be here\nand was wondering about the 25th of November. David Bendall (phonetic)\nwill be here too. X Who should we deal with?\nK: Well, we could do this on various levels. I think you should deal with\nSonnenfeldt on this.\nF: If Bendall is in town and if Men is in town then we cannot keep them\nmuch of a secret.\nK: They should have their normal contacts in Washington. This is not\na secret visit and I assume they will have other appointments while they\nare here.\nF: Then we should not conceal their presence. However, although their\nmeeting in the White House will la not be a secret what they hear and say\nin the White House will be. OK, Sonnenfeldt on this one and Smith on the\nother.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nNIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS PROJECT\nDOCUMENT CONTROL RECORD\nITEM REMOVED FROM THIS FILE FOLDER\nA RESTRICTED DOCUMENT OR CASE FILE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM\nTHIS FILE FOLDER. FOR A DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEM REMOVED\nAND THE REASON FOR ITS REMOVAL, CONSULT DOCUMENT ENTRY\nNUMBER 4 ON EITHER THE DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD\n(GSA FORM 7292 OR NA FORM 1421) OR NARA WITHDRAWAL SHEET\n(GSA FORM 7122) LOCATED IN THE FRONT OF THIS FILE FOLDER.\nA sanitized copy substituted for an original item which\nContains information restricted under the Privacy Act.\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nNLN FORM 101 (revised 6-85)\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK: I just do not believe that they - - - have you seen the latest Dobrynin\nmemcon. I told Al Haig to send it over. I just cannot believe that they\nwill be wanting a showdown at this point.\nJ: Unless they wanted to prove the ability to make \"courtesy calls\". I\njust checked. They are still in there this morning. I will be talking to\nhim again. Everyone knows it is there. There will be a blow up about\nthis in the press if it is going to stay. Perhaps it would be wise to call Dobrynin.\nK: Call up Dobrynin?\nJ: Yes. Only thought I have.\nK: Call him up or ask him in? I will ask him in late today or early\ntomorrow. I will report to you as soon as I have talked to him.\nJ: We still have the Portugese Foreign Minister in New York.\nK: I will get him an appointment. The Secretary promised me he would do it and\nI should lay off. Because I broached it and got turned down.\nJ: Maybe he did. He is out with a bad cold today.\nK: I do not think he was alone with the President on the plane. He had pkanesk\nplanned to talk to him in Key Biscayne.\nJ: You do not know anything about it. I'll talk to him. About the UN and\nPaul Hoffman and his replacement. I didn't know anything about it until\ntoday but I understand Fred Bergsten knew something about it. U. Thant\nis going to reappoint Hoffman about in about a week. Sam DePalma and\nFred were discussing it.\nK: He can't do that. We have to get some names in. Martin was mentioned\nbut I don't think it will go.\nJ: Dave Bell was suggested. I don't know the politics of it.\nK: They are not good but we offered him the job Eliot Richardson got so I\nassume they are not impossible. Dave is a good man and I like him. I think\nthat is a good idea.\nJ: We can talk about this later. You will check it out.\nK: I will check with the President. I will check it this afternoon. That\ndamned intelligence report on the standstill is still hanging fire. I am only\ninterested to stop them from cooking estimate. Would they add missiles\nin the area 45 SAM XXXXXXX battalions and then deploy them when they\nshould hide them I just want to get an agreed statement before they start\n1x leaking it out of Defense.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Secretary Rogers\n1:36 p. m., November 14, 1970\nK:\nHello, Bill. I wanted to find out how you were.\nR:\nI'm lot better today -- my temperature is down.\nK:\nYou missed a fascinating lunch. It was hard to keep the\nconversation going for an hour. He is more energetic than his\npredecessor. It's just the nature of the situation that there isn't\na lot to talk about. The only interesting thing was he is pretty\nmuch on our line on Chile -- but nothing overt.\nI got hell from the President. I raised the Portuguese\nForeign Minister issue again. He said you and I were in cahoots.\nHe was good natured about it, but wouldn't do it. So we have laid\non the Vice President. We will say the President isn't up to it --\nhe has a cold or something. It has nothing to do with him. Basically,\nthe reason is that when he saw the Heads of State, he forgets they\nwere all heads of state. So now he doesn't want to see Foreign Ministers.\nR:]\nMaybe when he is over there, we will see if he can drop in.\nThe President XXX figures this guy merely wants to say he saw him.\nK:\nYou, Alex and everyone else who wants this is right.\nR:\nHe didn't stop in Portugal; he stopped in Spain. We worked\nout the Spanish bases; but we've done nothing about the Azores. But\nI think we have pushed enough.\nK:\nIf, when the Foreign Minister is here and if the President is\nin, I will call and say he is here. It may be good for a handshake.\nR:\nGood.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Ben Wells (NYTimes)\nNovember 14, 1970\n2:00\np.m.\n(paraphrased)\njlj\nK: You called yesterday and left enigmatic references that it might be\ntoo late for me unless I talked to you. I want to know what it is all about.\nW: Max had asked me to call your office as a routine when we had a\nstory to check it out with you as you thought the Times was not being\nresponsive. We have written a story that US has understanding with the\nSoviet Union not to base XXXXX nuclear missiles in the Carribean waters\nor nuclear missiles in the Western Hemisphere. We would not be\nadverse if they want to use recreation facilities, service and maintaixcexcex\nmaintenance or calls at the ports. We have hopes that\nthere will be evidence in the next few (3 or 4) days of the removal byxtxxx of the\ntender in Cienfuegos.\nK: If we could avoid the last paragraph I do not think this is an outrageous\nstory\nW: That is the guts of the story. It is the pendant on which it is hung.\nK: But it escalates it. It goes into a sort of public confrontation.\nW: Only X going to be in the New York Times.\nK: It is not an inconsiderable newspaper.\nW: That will gladden many hearts inthis office. May I quote you.\nK: You have not had any problem with me.\nW: Seriously let's talk about us being responsible.\nK: This last thing - I do not know on what you base it. I certainly did\nnot say it.\nW: (reading) next 2 or 3 days we have hopes that the tender will be taken\nout.\nK: I tell you as a fact I have no way of knowing that. I really don't.\nW: We expect the removal of the tender?\nK: If XX you say that it would be really unfortunate.\nW: Then give me some guidance as to what I should say. Is this all\non background. Let's work together.\nK: I do not want to give a time deadline. XXX\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nW:\nmy accurate source of information\nK: You have no other source of accurate information. All you have\nis gossip. I do not know who gave you this information but this is\njust not right.\nW: You say this will damage our policy. Will you give me some\nguidance in order to avoid that.\nK: We consider the removal of the tender desirable. But we would\nlike to treat it quietly.\nW: Are the barges equally important?\nK: No. Not without the tender.\nW: One without the other.\nK: Anything can be used the next time.\nW: Where does this leave us? I do not want to be irresponsible.\nK: I am not writing your story for you. I just do not want you to put\na time limit on our considerations or permanent bases would not be\nX\nconcerned with the understanding,\nthat is one thing, but if you gave a deadline it could have unfortunate\nconsequences.\nW: If they take it out and sail it around and then return to Port that\nis all right?\nK: If it was permanently in Carribean waters we would have a problem.\nIt would have to be determined by the length of stay and what it does.\nW: Then our objections are based on permanency?\nsupport for\nnuclear missile submarines\nbarges.\nK:\nwe are reasonably satisfied. Both sides know what it is that\ncreates concern.\nW: It is one thing if they bring in Y-class and bring crews ashore and\ndump affluent (?) out - do we consider it a concern.\nK: It would have to be on a case to case basis. I cannot define every\nsingle instance. A lot of it depends on the spirit.\nW: You mean you would trust Gromyko and Dobrynin after 1962.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-3-\nK: It is not a question of trust. We will know what they are doing.\nW: What would this mean in the terms of muscle.\nK: I do not want to speculate.\nW: You have given me nothing but you say it is irresponsible to put\nin a time limit.\nK: Do not have 2 or 3 days. Thexx X XX X XX\nXndXxXXXX Anyone who told you that WXOXLX did not know what he was\ntalking about.\nW: Possibly.\nK: Certainly.\nW: No time frame at all. Simply rely on their good will.\nK: Lot of time between 2 days and never.\nW: Herb Klein said they pulled out and now they came back. Does he\nspeak for the Administration?\nK: I think that I have gone as far as I am going to on this. Thank you\nfor calling.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Max Frankel\n2:05 p.m., November 14, 1970\nK:\nI had a painful, semi-blackmailing conversation with\nBen Wells who is doing the Cuba story. He wants to say that\nwe have reason to believe that this tender will leave in two or three\ndays. I don't think this can be said because (a) this isn't true, and\n(b) to say it at this point will jeopardize the whole complex back-and-\nforth on this issue. He says if I don't tell him what is true, he will\nhave to go with what he thinks is true. Very few people in this\ngovernment know what is true. This isn't true. It may come true\nbut if it does, it would be a pure accident. When does he plan to\npublish this? Tomorrow?\nF:\nTomorrow.\nK:\nFor reasons which you don't know and cannot control and for\nwhich you are not to blame, it would be the worst possible timing and\nwould jeopardize the whole thing. He can, if he wants, speculate\nabout permanent stationing there. The true reasons I cannot give\nyou now, but the article appears at an excruciatingly bad time. We\ncan get this wound up only by keeping the profile low.\nF:\nI think I get the picture.\nK:\nI don't object to most of the rest of it, but lay off the tender\nto some extent.\nF:\nLet me see if we can find some way of sluffing away from it.\nK:\nIn return, when the tender leaves, I will explain to you why\nthis is so sensitive and give you a chance to do an article. If I have\ndeceived you in this phone call, then you could slam me.\nF:\nI wouldn't do that. You understand why this is an intriguing\ntopic for us.\nBut I will talk to him.\nK:\nBut it would be most unfortunate right now.\nF:\nI understand.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n2:20 p. m., November 14, 1970\nK:\nMr. President, how are you. I wanted to bring you up to\ndate on one development. The Syrian army overthrew the government.\nP:\nI read that.\nK:\nI think it is one of the positive results of our Jordanian move.\nP:\nFrom what I can read from the news summary, the move\ncertainly is not a move to the left but to the right.\nK:\nBut these people will still be in the radical camp.\nP:\nThey can't be anything else.\nK:\nIt proves that a most hardline regime didn't survive a challenge\nto us. People will remember. As far as conduct of negotiations, it\nhas problems because it means we now have to talk about the Golon\nHeights. I think the Egyptians would have preferred to drop it, but\nthat is a tactical issue. On the whole, it is a positive development\nand therefore quite good.\nOne other thing -- Laird has been talking to Stennis about the\nStennis amendment to the appropriations bill to the effect that combat\ntroops cannot be used in Laos and Thailand. He wants to authorize\nStennis to add the word \"Cambodia. 11 I think I would like to call\nStennis.\nP:\nNo. \"Cambodia\" will not be used. I want the threat. It's the\nwhole point. We'd be out of our minds. We have to keep them guessing.\nWe shouldn't have Thailand in there because we have a treaty.\nK:\nIt has nothing to do with whether we intend to use them or not.\nI had a talk with Dobeynin this morning and told him about the tender.\nHe said he would report to Moscow.\nP:\nDid he know it was there?\nK:\nHe said, 'Do you take it seriously or are you making an issue?\nI said we are taking it seriously. They are trying to kick us a little.\nIt's not in its former position. They have it way in a corner of the\nharbor - on the Cuban side of the harbor. It's not where the installation\nis. It's a salami tactic where they always test you.\nDECLASSIFIED\nE.O. 13526, Section 3.5\nPER RAC REVIEW 6/12/2008\nBy JUS NARA, Date 8/20/2012\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n[en. 1 of 63\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n2:20 p.m., November 14, 1970\n- 2 -\nP:\nOkay.\nK:\nOn the plan for next Saturday, I am getting the plans over\nfrom Defense. They are playing into our hands.\nP:\nThat big play television made -- no casualties for 2 days,\nand then they said there had been a big step-up in casualties -- which\nwas 9. We all know this shooting down of the plane has to be\nK:\nThey fired at planes again today and made a statement on\nHanoi radio that there was no understanding.\nP:\nThere was! What does Rusk say?\nK:\nEven Harriman knew there was an understanding.\nP:\nCan we get anybody else other than ourselves to say something\nabout the understanding? That was what the understanding was about.\nK:\nThere's no question about it.\nP:\nAnyway, if they do it, I think it's time for a hell of a good\nbang. Whatever happens on the helicopter thing\nK:\nI am getting plans for the whole operation.\nP:\nI want to see them.\nK:\nShould we keep some in reserve for when they start the\noffensive? Maybe hit two or three places like the dumps where\nthe fire came from. Where there are a lot of supplies.\nP:\nDo they have a lot? Give them a big bang. We have good\nreason to do it. If they have a lot of supplies, knock hell out of their\nsupplies. We can't temporize.\nK:\nX\nWe will do it in conjunction with the helicopter thing SO they\nwon't be in a high state of alert.\nP:\nI agree. The whole thing should be done then. That was the\nplan. The first Laird plan said all we would do would be make a\nfeint. That is too dangerous. If we just whack around, they won't\nknow where the next blow is coming from. But don't publicize it.\nLet them put it out. Don't let the Air Force put it out.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nCoo. 2. of 6]\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n2:20 p. m., November 14, 1970\n- 3 -\nK:\nWe will get it all done in one morning.\nP:\nThis is an order for Laird. Nothing is to be announced\nfrom out there. We will merely say it was in reaction to\nK:\nHelms' people are starting a little offensive in Northern Laos\nto get some supplies to use to launch an offensive. It's imaginative\nand not huge. It plays together with the others we have.\nP:\nWhat was TV saying about an offensive?\nK:\nThere wasn't one. It was a clearing operation along Route 6.\nP:\nIt said there was a great blow to ARVN.\nK:\nThat is another thing. It's not true. Thieu has given orders\nthat ARVN not proceed more than 30 miles inside Cambodia unless\nthere is an imminent threat to Phnom Penh. He is stopping at this\nline so they don't get over-extended. It's very similar to the order\nwe gave. They are cleaning out any caches in the sanctuary areas.\nP:\nThat is going according to plan, isn't it?\nK:\nThere is no report which indicates there is anything like a\nsetback.\nP:\nWhat about the buildups as far as the North Vietnamese.\nIt sounds like gamesmanship.\nK:\nThey are putting a lot of men into the pipeline. We are now\nseeing everything coming down the Ho Chi Minh Trail. Previously\nsome came through Sihanoukville. There's a lot coming down the\nTrail, SO they need more men on the Trail. There's a lot stopping\nin Southern Laos because of logistics problems. On casualties,\nwe estimated 15,000 dead. If we say 15, 000 total casualties, our\nestimates are they are barely replacing their losses of the last\nsix months. We are putting almost all our airplanes into interdiction.\nP:\nIs it effective.\nK:\nI don't know what to believe. We don't have the right kind of\nairplanes.\nP:\nWe need some old prop planes like Corsairs. They are a lot\nbetter than these jets.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n[on. 3 of 6]\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n2:20 p.m., November 14, 1970\n- 4 -\nK:\nThey are too fast and too high performance for this sort\nof campaign. We are having fairly substantial guerrilla operations\non these routes. There are good reports of harrassment --\nblowing up convoys. Next weekend we will hit these choke points\nfrom Vietnam into Laos and where a lot has piled up because of\nheavy rains.\nP:\nI would like to see the plan. I think it's a good one. Did you\ntell Bill?\nK:\nI am planning to tell Bill Monday or Tuesday. We told Bruce.\nI think Bill will go along with it.\nP:\nMonday is too early -- Tuesday is plenty of time.\nK:\nLet's wait to see what the private talks bring -- but I don't\nthink it will bring anything.\nP:\nIs Bruce all for it?\nK:\nI can say he would go along with it. He wouldn't object.\nP:\nHe wouldn't object?\nK:\nHe sort of thought it was interesting.\nP:\nIn any event, Bill has to be brought in. We have to do\nsomething on this pressure thing. This is it.\nK:\nI will talk to him Tuesday or Wednesday.\nP:\nTalk to him with Laird.\nK:\nWe could send Laird alone -- it's his plan.\nP:\nNo, you and he and Laird. Tell him it is a protective reaction\nplot. Don't build that up too much. Say we are going to hit a couple\nof places because they have been firing on planes. We are waiting\nuntil Saturday. Tell Laird not to build up too big an operation. Get\nit going. I can't see why Bill will object.\nK:\nI think Bill will go along with it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n[ 4\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n2:20 p. m., November 14, 1970\n- 5 -\nP:\nSpeaking of the Defense Department -- Zumwalt's buttering\nup the troops. Probably the purpose is to get volunteers. Now,\nthe Air Force guys are doing the same thing in Colorado. Maybe\nwhen they look at the peacetime navy, they may need it.\nK:\nMy general reaction is that the Navy has the highest morale.\nI don't think you can run the military service as a mass meeting.\nP:\nHe is certainly pushing that thing over there.\nK:\nMaybe he is too slick. I see him from time to time. Zumwalt\nis very bright. He may be the brightest of the Chiefs. He has a\nlittle of the problems General Taylor used to have -- he is a little\ntoo intellectual. What you need from a soldier is guts and to say\nwhat he thinks.\nP:\nI like him, but I don't want him to go overboard. Pretty\nsoon, they'll say marijuana is okay.\nK:\nI will talk to Moorer. If they are doing it to please us, they\ndon't have to do it.\nP:\nDon't do it if they think they will make the columnists like\nthem better.\nK:\nThey are against the military.\nP:\nThey are against the United States. Look back over our enormous\nachievements here. Consider what we have done in the last year:\nNovember 3, Cambodia, defused the war, knocked the critics down.\nK:\nYou forced the whole Democratic party to the right. I read\nin the Boston Globe that Sam XXX Brown (head of the Moratorium)\ngave a talk in Boston. He said, in effect, you were right idealogically\nby pushing them to the right. They did better than expected but\nin terms of substance they lost -- the moratorium people.\nP:\nThe intellectuals have to rationalize the whole thing. When\nyou consider the beating their real spokesmen took -- Gore, Tydings,\nGoodell. Nobody considered Murphy or Smith anything. This must\nirritate them.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nCoo. 5 of 63\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n2:20 p. m., November 14, 1970\n- 6 -\nK:\nThey are trying to do what they did from the beginning -- to\nget you to appeal to the liberals. On Vietnam, you have done\nalmost all the things they used to propose. They would like to cut\nyou off from normal support and for six months or so the editorials\nwould quiet down but in '72 they would be all over you.\nP:\nWe won't worry about it. We'll get the economy moving.\nI think it will be a shocker when we come on with the Summit. Suck\nthem along on U.S. /Soviet relations, and we'll then surprise them.\nK:\nOn the Soviet/American side, there is something you could\ndo for them. It's a complicated thing. We have held a spy -- we\nwant it for legal precedent. Dobrynin has asked me about it. He\nsaid State and the Attorney General haven't been able to do anything.\nI have worked out with Mitchell that the case would be kept in the\ncourts and the guy can be released to Dobrynin, and this would get\nus rolling to the Summit.\nP:\nWe can reconsider in view of their action in Cuba and Jordan.\nWe can reconsider that gear thing. Would this be in exchange for\nthe Generals?\nK:\nNo, I would hold it until close to the Summit announcement.\nPut another week or two between KXX release of the spy and the\nGenerals. It would be a sign of good will on your part. We have\nmade our point by holding him for 7 years. Mitchell is willing\nto go along if you are.\nP:\nOkay, do it.\nK:\nAll right, Mr. President.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Secretary Laird\n(paraphrased)\nNovember 14, 1970 2:45 p.m.\njlj\nL: Henry, you called.\nK: I do not have anything of overwhelming importance. On this\nbusiness the President is really driving me up the walls. He wants a\nlarger plan. He wants to include a port.\nL: We have three carriers moving in there. We are bringing up as much\nstuff as we can.\nK: I think we should\nthe two areas we discuss yesterday.\nL: Got those theee in there. We have a drone going over today. We\nmight as well hit hard.\nK: I would like to keep it ordered to the general vicinity to where\nthis thing came.\nL: Take in all three of those base areas. I think that after the\nWednesday afternoon meeting we ought to show the attack plan and some\nof the pictures to the President.\nK: Good, why don't you plan on that.\nL: We have told McCann not to say a word to anyone. Just get them\nin there and don't answer any questions. We would not want him\ntalking to anyone. Give him a good hit on this one Henry.\nK: Excellent\nL: I am getting in touch with Goodpaster and asking him to fly over\nfor the meeting. Do you want him to bring Ellsworth with him.\nK: We have already told Ellsworth. I mean we have already told\nState that we want Ellsworth back.\nL: I will handle it this way then.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nDr. Kraemer\n11/16/70 8:50 a. m.\nFK: I have a message which is not really in my bailiwick.\nI can't discuss it over the phone. I would like to see you. I will\nbe though in 10 minutes -- I promise you it won't take my longer.\nHK: That's all right. How about at noon bøday?\nFK: Fine.\nHK: 12:00.\nI will send you a car.\nFK: Don't bother. I can get a car here. I will be at your\noffice at noon.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nLucy Winchester\n11/16/70 9:30 a. m.\nW: I saw this memo to you from Dwight Chapin about the Ky\nbreakfast.\nIs anyone else going to be present?\nK: Yes, I'll give you a list.\nW: About how many will there be?\nK: I don't know right now. Can I give you a list later today?\nW: Please do.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nHaldeman/Kissinger\nlate morning\n11/16/70\nK: That meeting the President wants with Laird and Rogers.\nH: It's Laird and Rogers?\nK: I think it is. You better check with him. Laird want it on Wed. or after because\nof security. Not before Wed. The President mumbled something about tomorrow.\nH: It's a problem tomorrow. After Wed. or on Wed. ?\nK: Wed. will be better. Is the NSC on Wed.?\nB: He kicked me out without any answers. I don't know what he is up to.\nK: He says you will know what it's about.\nH: Well, I don't. I think he was thinking of a press conference which he realizes\nhe cannot do.\nK: He is in an odd mood.\nH: We will have to ease him back into routine. Post-election decompression and it's\nkakxingx not taking well.\nK: I thought perhaps it was just with me. He isn't focusing on my area.\nH: He isn't focusing on anything. He is past the hashing of election results -- At least\nI have only had a couple of hours a day on that lately.\nK: He didn't do badky.\nH: Jos. Alsop is still with us.\nK: He moved to the right. He should move confidently -- be a President. In two\nmonths people will forget the election time. Let me know as soon as you can on that.\nAnd also on the NSC.\nH: Will do.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSenator Allott\n11/16/70 10:25 a. m.\nA: I just got back last night and\ndid anyone ever get in\ntouch last weekend with your office about contacting Gerald Smith?\nK: No.\nA: Not your secretary or anyone in your office?\nK: No.\nA: You remember our conversation?\nK: Yes, and I was waiting to hear from you.\nA: I went over there. I was supposed to have gotten word to you.\nK: I was ready to roll out the red carpet but I didn't hear anything.\nA: I didn't learn enough to pay for my time going up there.\nK: It's inexcuseable. When was I supposed to be told?\nA: Last weekend?\nK: Before this one?\nA: Yes, Friday or Saturday.\nK: By whom?\nA: Apparently someone in the Defense Department. I left it to\nthis liaison captain.\nI'm going to check it there.\nK: Let me chase it down at my end too.\nA: I'm not sure I'll be at the leadership meeting tomorrow. I've\ncome up with a spasm in my back. But as soon as it is better I'll try to\nget in touch with you. It will only take about 5 minutes.\nK: It will be good to see you. I am sorry about this.\nA: I think this liaison captain is a stupid jerk.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nJoe Alsop\n11/16/70 10:40 a. m.\nA: How serious is this Cuban thing?\nK: That's what we are trying to find out.\nA: It looks as though we don't hadn't sorted it out after all.\nK: It's just part of this petty and mean-minded Russian bunch.\nWe told them not to build a submarine base there so if they so that if\nthey do XX so we have a better legal basis to act than before. It is\ncertainly a sign\nmy own judgment is that they will still putt\nthat ship out but it is à mean move.\nA: I have the darkest suspicions about the future. I don't see\nthat we've got not any serious kind of deterrent capability or any plan.\nAnd everyone says you can't be planning to go as far in the Middle East\nas you say. It's clear that they can't do anything in the Middle East\ntill they put in 10 or 12 more squadrons of MIGs in Egypt and it won't\nsurprise me a bit if I hear they do. And we are not doing a thing to\nstop it. It's very dangerous.\nK: You know my views on that subject.\nA: It's tough to do anything at thelast minute a bout it.\nWhat\nare your chances of exx getting out of your engagement on the night\nKennetly Clark is coming to dinner?\nK: I will know this afternoon.\nA: Splendid. And I am going off on Thursday and would like to\nsee you before I go.\nK: I'll call you and we'll work something out.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nGerard Smith/Kissinger\n11:00 a. m.\n11/16/70\nS: ? ? ? ? ? a communique betwean you and the President a couple of days ago.\nI just heard x today that State Secretariat was asked for a copy by the WH. I send\nit through backchannel and State Secretariat wouldn't know about it. Someone on your\nstaff may have asked for an extra copy of it.\nK: You sent it through a State channel?\nS: I sent a backchannel to the President and didn't want State to have a copy of it.\nSome way State heard about it.\nK: How could it be?\nS: Someone on your staff may have asked for an extra copy.\nK: I will check on it. I guarantee it will not happen again.\nS: I wanted it out of State channels.\nK: Thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nLaird/Kissinger\n[1970].\n11:17 a.m.\n11/16/7-\nK: I had an opportunity to talk about the Stennis matter with the President. He doesn't\nwant Cambodia in there.\nL: I will takex talk to him then and see what we can do.\nK: He has no intention -- you know his theory.\nL: He said perhaps after the election that if Cambodia was strong it would be a reason\nfor compromixe.\nK: He was very strong on it.\nL: We will take that position but we may get beat. Stennis thinks he has to do it.\nI will tell him we will oppose it.\nK: Want me to call him?\nL: No. I will tell you if we have to go beyond that.\nK: The President is going to call us all together in the next day or two and he will\ntell Rogers himself.\nL: Wait until Wed. Things leak like a seive. Even your meetings.\nK: I was outraged.\nL: No one over here even knows about those meetings.\nK: It's awful and makes us look to the Russians like we are putting the arm on them.\nL: We put out a battle statement over there and they have for years.\nK: He doesn't want it any more.\ncan't\nL: We XXX stop it.\nK: Some people are keeping their own tally.\nL: They have always done it but they are always wrong. When the deaths come out\nthis week it will be 32 not 41. These reporters report on deaths and add totals\nand always come out wrong.\nK: Will you get that straight. If they could be discredited\nL: Our reporters know it. They are always wrong. We can keep telling them our\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nLaird/Kissinger\n11:17 a.m.\n11/16/70\n-2-\nL: (cont) official report is on Thur S. Our report will be 32.\nK: One other point, there was some feeling over here that Adm. Mack on commenting\non the pot thing took a hardboiled attitude. \"Sure, what are they going to do? It instead\nof XX showing concern.\nL: I agree. I took care of that. The whole thing is bad.\nK: They want to be sure we show concern about that.\nL: I want to talk to you about the S. Vietnamese government on that. We have\nevidence that high officials in the SVN Government are involved in that. I don't\nknow how to handle it. One is visiting here next week. I have shut off the\ninvestigators.\nK: We will talk about it.\nL: It would be bad if it focused.\nK: I will see you soon.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSecretary Rogers\n11/16/70 ca. 11:30 a. m.\nR: I was just going over this CIA assessment of the missiles.\nThey are trying to back away from it now. This is what we've said all\nalong.\nK: It is one of the most\nthings I've seen.\nR: We're right back where we started. What we've all been saying.\nK: Everything confirms what you've been saying.\nR: I went over every picture myeelf.\nK: Even if their notion were right it still would have been a\nviolation. They said they could have been hidden under sand. Then I\nhad a stody made: they would have had to dig a hole as big as the White\nHouse and the Executive Office Building combined.\nR: This is exactly what we've gee been saying.\nK: Absolutely. The reason I put it out from the White House is\nthat once Defense submits a unilateral paper, they leak it. It wasn't\ndirected to State at all.\nR: I understand. I wanted it done.\nK: Butix it confirmed everything we've been saying. If anything\nit shows you've been extremely moderate. But we ha d to go through three\ndrafts to get this statement. They kept saying we can't be sure they weren't\nthere to begin with. But to have them hidden up to that time and then un-\ncover them doesn't make any sense.\nR: It's just ludicrous when you look at the pictures. You could\nsee that the sand hadn't been touched in the pictures.\nK: The whole thing was absurd.\nR: By looking at the pictures you could see the construction: they\nwere bringing in trucks and pouring cement. I will see you tomorrow.\nK: No, it's been moved to Wednesday.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nHaldeman/Kissinger\n12:20 pm\n11/16/70\nH: It was the press conference he was holding off on so he says we can do the NSC\non Wed. Do we have to do the leadership?\nK: Yes.\nH: Then it must be Wed. So we had better do the NSC Thurs.\nK: How about getting with Rogers and company?\nH: I said Laird wanted it on Wed. He said fine. How about after the leadership meeting\nK: Isn't he having breakfast with Rockefeller?\nH: Have the bi-partisan leaders after.\nK: It doesn't have to be after the leaders meeting. It can be anytime. The advantage\nto having leaders meeting afterwards would be that it would end the discussion.\nSex\nbefore\nH: So before would be better. All right. How long do we need for Laird and Rogers?\nK: 45 minutes.\nH: Then - okay.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nThe President\n11/16/70; 6:45 p.m.\nP: How did your meeting come off when I called you you were in the\nSituation Room.\nK: I said what you had suggested. First I told him about Ivanov. I said\nwhy don't we start talking about the agenda. He said when he said we\nshould talk about it I said in three or four weeks now he says he has\nauthority to talk about it after December 1. He said he was going to\ncommunicate with Moscow. They are playing it cool.\nP: We will play it the same way.\nK: Casualties not 44 but 32.\nP: Why the hell did they put out 44 then?\nK: They get put out by two or three channels and some get counted twice.\nActually, we are now at the average of recent weeks. I called Laird to\nraise hell about the daily count. He said it was wrong and the real figure\nwas about 31 or 32. He said he was going to the press.\nP: I suggested that you and Bunker come in tomorrow after I meet with\nthe leaders. We will have a good hour to talk to him.\nK: Excellent, I think that would be very good.\nP: How is he feeling?\nK: I have not seen him since he came back he was fine when I saw him.\nP: We want him to spare himself and give us his judgment on this political\nthing.\nK: He should tell Thieu that if we have anything to say to Thieu it should\ncome through Bunker.\nP: It would not be useful if he stayed for the Ky breakfast. We are not\ngoing to let that little son-of-a-bitch (Ky) spoil this the point is they\ncan't go any place without us. He is going to know very hard where this\nstands.\nK: That's the key thing -- we are too close now.\nP: Did you get anything further done on Pakistan?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\n-2-\nThe President\n11/16/70; 6:45 p.m.\nK: We will get the full package on Pakistan tonight and I can give you the\nproposal the first thing in the morning.\nP: I don't need to see it but I want them to know we care and we care fast.\nHave you sent the message to\n?\nK: That was done -- so I think we are going through -- we will have\nsomething tomorrow.\nP: I have an idea about this but you will let me know about it tomorrow.\nK: We will have it the first thing in the morning.\nfeg\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n8:50 p. m., November 16, 1970\nP:\nI wonder if Moorer is going to be prepared to go, a concrete plan.\nK:\nYes he is Mr. President. I have seen it. Actually there are two kinds\nof plans, the logistics constraints\nrelated to where the firing\ncame from and another one which would explain when. Logistics up\nnear the border when they start an offensive.\nP:\nI agree. Let's have him submit it on that basis. Is there good stuff\nto hit there?\nK:\nYes, there's good stuff.\nP:\nYeah. A Lot to hit huh.\nK:\nThat's their judgment yes. Then he will also be prepared to brief on\nthat other operation.\nP:\nSaturday, the 21st.\nK:\nAssuming there is a full moon, assuming there is good weather that\nnight. The morning after they go on after that operation, go after the\nsupply dumps.\nP:\nThey are hitting the supply dumps second rather than first?\nK:\nYes, they will go on a state of alert if the supply dumps are hit first.\nP:\nThink the best thing on the other operation with complete surprise.\nK:\nYes.\nP:\nThat seems to make sense and that would, well I think, yes we at least\nwhen we do the other operation whatever happens this will cover it.\nThe other will involve\nK:\nThe other one will create SO much noise anyway this won't attract SO\nmuch attention.\nP:\nI understand. Got to come very close together, yeah. Okay. And\nthey will be ready to brief on that Wednesday?\nK:\nWe can, Mr. President. It would come on the 21st which is Saturday.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 2\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n8:50 p.m., November 16, 1970\nP:\nOr the 22nd.\nK:\nOr the 22nd, if the weather is good.\nP:\nThe 21 st, 22nd or 23rd, any one of those nights.\nK:\nOne of those nights. If they get out with the number of prisoners\n[they expect to get out with, they may get] out as many as 90 but\nthey are pretty confident to get around 50.\nP:\nBased on simply letters?\nK:\nLetters, photographs and considering that we have only got 9 prisoners\n[out as long as the war has gone on].\nP:\nIf we get 9, that would be a hell of a thing.\nK:\nIf we get any, we will get more than 9 assuming their intelligence is\ngood.\nP:\nWe will take the risk on that. Another thing, I have a pencilled note,\nI told -- Bentsen wanted to be briefed on foreign policy matters and\nBuckley and obviously you will continue to do Humphrey on a selected\nbasis.\nK:\nHe has written me a letter [and I planned to raise it with you].\nP:\nYou can go ahead (with Humphrey) and do that with Bentsen. You can\nbe very forthcoming with Bentsen, he is like Stennis, he will play it\nstraight down the line. Let Haig give him the briefing on ABM. Give\nboth Bentsen and Buckley, send them over to State and let them get\na briefing on the world. ??? Don't want us to get into everything that\ngoes on, you arrange, your office will arrange for them to be briefed\non the national defense. ??? knows a hell of a lot anyway.\nK:\nLet Sisco brief them and Sullivan brief them ???.\nP:\nSisco and Sullivan would be very good, the two of them would be very\ngood. ABM, national defense and our own shop, that's all that matters\nto us. As far as the Republicans are concerned they are, it would be\ngood if you could brief them in a bunch. The five Congressmen, I had\nin today\nK:\nAnd Buckley?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 3\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n8:50 p.m., November 16, 1970\nP:\nDon't include him, do him separately.\nK:\n[Separately ? ]\nP:\nI see no objection really. Bentsen and Buckley together, you could do\nthe whole bunch together on that point, they all think alike, then let\nSisco and Sullivan do the other.\nK:\nI'll take care of that Mr. President. [I just got a report], they lobbed\n13 rockets into South Vietnam and killed three Americans. All this is\ngrist to the mill.\nP:\nYeah.\nK:\nIt was 20 miles North of Saigon.\nP:\nWhat this really is now is isolated acts of terror, none of this\nis meant\n.\nK:\nThey are trying to kick us, to try and make us look bad in public.\nP:\nThat newspaper report casualties would be 33 not 4. I hope Laird\ncleared it up.\nK:\nHe said he would, reporting from the various headquarters. If someone\nis transferred from one headquarter to another, they could be counted\ntwice.\nP:\nCouldn't stop those daily reports, loss profile.\nK:\nLousy story no matter how low the casualties are.\nP:\nTo the extent we can, let the things go and we will report them each\nweek. The weekly report is the only one that means anything.\nK:\nThat's what I urged him to do.\nP:\nTomorrow I want to talk to you about Pakistan.\nK:\n[I have something on Pakistan]. Have earmarked $10 million, don't want\nto move on any of it until we have their needs. We want to tell them\nwhat sort of things we have available and let them give us an indication\nof what sort of things they need. You asked for State's recommendation\nbut don't [think it's necessary.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 4\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n8:50 p.m., November 16, 1970\nP:\nI'm going to think of something dramatic to do in that part of the world.\nK:\nRight, Mr. President.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified."
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