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    "ocrText": "DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]\nDOCUMENT\nDOCUMENT\nNUMBER\nTYPE\nSUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS\nDATE\nRESTRICTION\n/\nTelCon.\nWilliam Rogers / Henry Kissinger\n1/25/7\nB\n(4 pgs.) SANITIZED Per. See 3.3(b )(1)\nPerttr 20 Aug 2007\nMANDATORY REVIEW REQUEST\nNLN 06 07/1\nFILE GROUP TITLE\nBOX NUMBER\nKissinger Transcripts Telephone Conversations\n00\nFOLDER TITLE\n19-29 Jan. 1971\n7\nRESTRICTION CODES\nA. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.\nE. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or\nB. National security classified Information.\nfinancial information.\nC. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's\nF. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law\nrights.\nenforcement purposes.\nD. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy\nG. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.\nor a libel of a living person.\nH. Withdrawn and returned non-historical material.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nDECLASSIFIED; 1989-235-084/00024\nNA 14021 (4-85)\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nFonMin Luns/Kissinger\n9:30 a. m.\n1/19/71\nL: I have just told the (Ambassador?) that I set aside 25 gilders to\nbuy you out if something happens to you.\nK: That's very nice of you.\nL: Yes, just like Luns. I want you to know if you ever come to Holland\nI would like to see you.\nK: I would like to see you. When you come to Washington do let me\nknow SO we can get together.\nL: I have been here only one day. I hope to see you in Bildenburg.\nK: I hope to come.\nL: Ernst rode over with me. He was extremely touched when he talked\nwith you.\nK: I have so many friends in the Netherlands. Do let me know when you\nare next in Washington and we will get toghther no later than Bildenburg.\nlay\nL: And you at the feet of the President.\nK: Yes. I won't introduce you because you will probably get another\nlanding right.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDorothy Zinberg/Kissinger\n10:55 a.m.\n1/19/71\nK: Where are you?\nZ: In my office. We have a new dialing system SO we have our ownnumber.\nK: We got through so quickly.\nZ: I won't see you I gather.\nK: I don't know -- what did --\nZ: Dianne told me you are spending an hour with the children and then going to\nthe meeting at the Faculty Club.\nK: That's right.\nZ: What a day!\nK: What?\nZ: Increased actifity in Cambodia is starting to rumble around more.\nK: Everytime I come we discuss Cambodia.\nZ: Did you see the articles on the front page of the GLOBE and TIMES?\nK: No oh, the TIMES says 11\nIT\nZ: And the article about you at the bottom of the front page.\nK: Naturally, that I have seen. You think it will be bad today?\n8: No. It's just interesting.\nK: The thing to do is to wathh the trend and we are getting out. The other thing\nis just tactics. We have gotten out and reduced casualties after, last year, and\nwe are doing the same this year. We are not going into Cambodia and it's hysteria\nto fret about it.\nZ: You will have a chance to put it into X words today.\nK: I have no question about it.\nZ: It's a panel on China?\nK: Yes, but they will start with VN first.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nD. Zinberg/Kissinger\n10:55 a. m.\n1/19/71\n-2-\nZ: It's a closed group anyway.\nK: It has to be judged when it's over. I am fairly optimistic it's going to work.\nSO --\nZ: I hope so.\nK: I think, Dorothy, we may have to take a beating again for a few weeks.\nZ: I hope not. Are you heading back right afterwards?\nK: Yes but I might be up there a week later for something at Endicott House.\nAnd let me know when you are in Washington.\nZ: Of course, and good dung luck tonight.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Hugh Sidey\n11:25 a. m., January 19, 1971\nK:\nHow are you? I wanted to tell you I appreciated your letter.\nThis is one of those things that happens with no malicious intent.\nThere is one thing I wondered whether you could do. I appreciate\nyour putting the letter in there. If you could ask the editors of TIME\nto send me any letter they get on the article, I can personally apologize.\nS:\nI don't think there will be that much mail.\nK:\nIf there isn't much, my secretaries will like that even better.\nBut I really feel I owe this to these people. It doesn't affect our\nrelationship.\nS:\nBut I will be much more careful.\nK:\nI can see how it happened. It may be fairly amusing.\nS:\nUnder that context, I didn't understand it. Now that I think\nabout it more, I see the unfortunate element there. I am in Atlanta\nright now, but when I get back I will do this.\nK:\nI recognize that. Do it when you get back.\nS:\nI don't think there's any problem on that.\nK:\nMany thanks.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Rush/Kissinger\n1:42 pm\nxk&x 1/19/71\nR: I am sorry I didn't get your call earlier.\nK: That's all right. The President wanted me to check on one thing. The\nconversation with Muskie and Brandt this weekend. Why wasn't there a report\nfrom the Embassy?\nR: He didn't want anyone to go with him. This has been true everywhere because\nit's a private affair.\nK: I understand. No one there from the Embassy.\nR: That's right.\nK: That's the reason then.\nR: They talked about it afterwards and nothing very exciting took place. I had\na good talk with him and went into Ost-Politik and troop levels in Germany. He\nwas very receptive to troop level here and Harriman ? ? ? and Muskie is\nre-thinking the entire issue.\nK: You are not coming over here soon?\nR: No. I am sorry I missed you.\nK: Anything outstanding happen today at the meeting?\nR: No. I think the Russians are trying to make an agreement.\nwanted\nto see me for dinner last night. I sas saw him in Sept. He came over and\nstayed until 2:00 and we canvassed everything. You will get a full report on that.\nNo progress made today but he stayed after the other ambassadors left but I think\nthey willx are getting edgy. If we can hold our position and not let it out of hand we\nwill get an unfreezing.\nK: It's my thought and the President. We admire the job you are doing.\nR: Thank you. I protested quite strongly the interference with civilian and US\ntraffic. He threatened worse if we to have provocation in Berlin. (Break in the\nconnection HAK hung up but Rush came back saying: so conciliatory after that\nthat he is under instructions for an agreement, I think. Notetaker indicated\nMr. Kissinger had to go off the line and would call back.)\nConversation continued: 2:27 pm\nK: I was called to the President.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nAmb. Rush/Kissinger\n1:42 pm\n1/19/71\n-2-\nR: That's a good reason. Give him my best regards.\nK: We were pretty well finisted. You were telling me that you thought there\nmight be some progress.\nR: No progress in talks themselves.\nK: But psychologically you thought.\nR: There are blank spoxx spots in your words.\nK: I can hear you.\nR: Psychologiaally they make me feel that\nis under orders to make\nagreement but no indication today. He stayed on after the meeting this afternoon\nand continued to want to talk about Berlin. Quite a bit of unease on interruptions\nof the autoban. I said these jeopardize the talks themselves. I have the feeling\nthat there's a bit of hast in their desire to get an agreement. As I mentioned\nearlier xix if we can hold firm and not give in to these that are weak, we will do fine\nK: You are under no pressure from us.\nR: I know. The worst pressures are from Bahr. Ehmke is apt to panic under\npressure on this issue. Bahr has panicked and does not reflect Brandt's feeling.\nThe Chancellor has been in accord with what we have done. That's it.\nK: I just talked to the President and we both admire what you are doing. I told\nhim of your conversation. Look in when you are back.\nR: I will and if you want me back or want to call., do. It's good to have you\nthere and I am pleased to have you there. You are a source of *goox great strength.\nK: If you say it a year from now, we have broken the back of this thing.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger\n10:30 a. m., January 20, 1970\nK:\nMel, how are you?\nL:\nI have gone over the transcript of yesterday; I thought I should\nread it. It's a hell of a long transcript.\nK:\nOf Ziegler's?\nL:\nYes.\nK:\nThe President says he gave specific instructions to do it. But\nI told Ziegler to stay off Defense business.\nL:\nHe says I have given authority to go into close air support,\nand that is something new. We always state we are giving air support.\nI suppose I have to come out now and say I have given some authority\nfor close air support.\nK:\nThe President wants to say what we are doing; he doesn't want\nto hide it. But he doesn't want to go into new or old authorities.\nL:\nI think it's a mistake. We should hardline it and say we use\nair power the best way we can use it. They get into a discussion\nbetween the kinds of helicopters. That is screwed up. What do you\nthink I should do? It goes on page after page.\nK:\nI don't know why we got into that. He should have said, 'Defense\nwill give you the details. I\nL:\nI got in touch with Saigon and told them to keep their mouths\nshut.\nK:\nI would say the situation is there are no new authorities. Tell\nthe truth. What we are doing changes from time to time as the tactical\nsituation changes. The targets change -- not the authorities.\nL:\nWe were flying more sorties a while back.\nK:\nOn June 30, the President did say we would not give logistic\nand air support.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger\n10:30 a. m., January 20, 1971\n- 2 -\nL:\nWe were flying air sorties.\nK:\nBut we were calling them interdiction.\nL:\nWell, we will stonewall it.\nK:\nDon't get into the question of new authorities. Make the\ndistinction between new targets. We hit targets that weren't available\nas their defensive develops. Don't you think?\nL:\nYes, I do. I think that is the way to handle it. You will get\nsome commander out there and he will say we didn't give any new\nauthority. It creates a credibility gap.\nK:\nJust tell what we are doing. But I know you will get that\nall screwed up.\nL:\nAnything else?\nK:\nThat is all I have\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nHaldeman/Kissinger\nmorning\n1/20/70\nH: 4:30 is fine. I suggest we X xixx include Mitchell.\nK: Delighted and wanted that done but thought it should stay in the WH.\nH: I talked with him this morning and he thinks it's a good idea. Have you\nasked Shultz?\nKxxHaweyou\nK: I left it to Haig.\nH: I question Shultz.\nK:\nOnly XXXX because he said he would use the OMB on this thing. I leave it to you.\nH: kbavex If we get Mitchell in we have consultation thing effectively and use\nShultz on working it out afterwards.\nK: I will come over for a few minutes.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nBrian McDonnell/Mr. Kissinger\nX\n11:28 a. m., January 20, 1971\nK:\nBrian, how are you?\nM:\nFair to middling. I have a job -- I'm going to get a paycheck.\nK:\nTerrific; but saints have no business earning money.\nM:\nThey obviously aren't encouraged to. The job is interesting.\nK:\nWhat are you doing?\nM:\nI am the Community Service Coordinator for the largest\nCommunity Service organization in Philadelphia. It is very much\n'community' it is community-based. It lets me give technical\nassistance. It's the place to be at this point. Alice is doing well.\nK:\nI talked to her last week. I was delighted to hear that. I\ndidn't get up. I had to speak to some Republican Congressmen who\nwere getting briefings.\nM:\nI have a couple of things.\nK:\nI am expecting the Attorney General to drop by shortly and I\nam going to raise the Berrigan issue. Frankly, it may get you into\ntrouble.\nM:\nThey have already bothered all of my friends -- where I was,\nwhen, etc. It's disheartening, bothering people with no relationship\nto me. They get people excited without any kind of information.\nK:\nYou can be sure I am not talking to anyone.\nM:\nThe whole scene of the indictment is whacked out. While\nthere might be evidence, there is some disproportionate kind of\nthinking. Now this is official -- let's put on our official hats. What\nI suggested to some of the people named as co-conspirators -- they\ncalled me and I know them very well --\nK:\nShould you discuss this on the telephone?\nM:\nI guess not. You are right.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nBrian McDonnell/Mr. Kissinger\n11:28 a. m., January 20, 1971\n- 2 -\nK:\nI would be delighted to hear it, but I don't want to get you\ninto trouble.\nM:\nYou won't get me into trouble, but I was worried it might\nget you into trouble.\nK:\nIt won't bother me.\nM:\nThe meeting last night was very open to anyone who wanted\nto come.\nK:\nI didn't know there was a meeting.\na\nM:\nIt was/good meeting. XtXx One of the things that came up\nis they would like to sit down with you as a man who has been threatened.\nK:\nOf course, I will do it. The co-conspirators?\nM:\nYes. I think it would be very x good.\nK:\nI am willing to do it.\nLet me check with the Security Service first.\nM:\nDo that, and do some thinking about it.\nK:\nLike who? The nuns?\nM:\nParticularly two people: Tom Davison, ex-religious; and\nBill Davidow.\nK:\nIn principle, I am happy to do it.\nM:\nFirst, I would like you to do a check with security, and two,\nthink about the ground rules you would like.\nK:\nThe only ground rule is they cannot come out and say they\ntalked to me. They are the same rules as I had with you. If it's\na personal dialogue, I would be happy to do it. If it is a publicity\nplatform, I won't do it. I don't want them to say anything. I take\nit they consider this a human problem. If they want to establish\na human contact, I am happy to do it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nBrian McDonnell/Mr. Kissinger\n11:28 a. m., January 20, 1971\n- 3 -\nM:\nThat is exactly what my feeling was.\nK:\nIf they want to step out of the White House and say they assured\nme they didn't mean to kidnap me.\nM:\nThe only assurance I can give you will be that I will ascertain\nto the best I can that this will not happen.\nK:\nThat's fair enough.\nM:\nThey have been open and honest with me. Consequently, I\nfeel they would say they want the press. And then I can say, 'Henry\nwould say no. 1 I think there is a need for them and also for you to\nhave that personal contact. Let me let you get back to the security\npeople. The time and that sort of thing we can work out. The other\nproblem -- when I called this morning I asked to be transferred to\nWinston and asked for a copy of your thing that is published -- the\nreport in San Clemente.\nK:\nIt doesn't exist yet. You will get it, of course.\nM:\nHow are you doing? And how are the children? It was good to\nsee you get the place and have a chance to think in San Clemente. As\nfar as my own safety, I feel very safe and it has even brought my\nbrother close to me.\nK:\nOn this conspiracy?\nM:\nHe said, 'if you have any problems, I will help any way I can.'\nK:\nBut you couldn't be part of it, judging it on human grounds.\nM:\nI can honestly say the things I know about in regard to talk\nabout your being kidnapped -- which I brought to you -- was true.\nThe people are so confused.\nK:\nI have never told anyone what you said. They got the information\nfrom other sources.\nM:\nIf they are looking for information, they will not use you. I\nhave no problem with that.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nBrian McDonnell/Mr. Kissinger\n11:28 a. m., January 20, 1971\n- 4 -\nK:\nI remember you thought it was sufficiently realistic that I\nshould take precautions at the UN meeting.\nM:\nThe fact that I thought it was reasonably real has nothing\nTO DO with the people in this particular indictment. You are a\npopular cat.\nK:\nThat is reassuring to know.\nM:\nShall I call?\nK:\nCall these people and call me tomorrow.\nM:\nEat lunch ***** quietly.\nK:\nLove to Alice. Good-bye.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nLaird/Kissinger\n12:06 pm\n1/20/71\nK; Did you get them screwed up?\nL: Yep.\nK: Good.\nL: I hope they can in that transcript yesterday Ron indicated that the Nixon\nDoctrine didn't include air X support. We have to clear that up.\nK: I will see to it that he stays out of this. It's out of the question.\nL: We don't have to go that far. Shouldn't get that all screwed up now. With\ndue and proper respect for the WH. That was tough.\nK: Don't x go overboard. I don't get any attacks from your building.\nL: They can point out when they brief Ron, whoever does it in your shop -- - -\nK: He is great but he never refused to answer questions.\nL: Sometimes you have to. I bxex never even got a question on the POW thing.\nK: At Harvard yesterday one of my senior colleagues on Son Tay said that we\nknew there were prisoners there and we wanted them to get killed so we could\nescalate the war and they knew what we were planning and didn't want to escalate\nthe war so they pulled the prisoners out. I said I never heard such a convoluted\nmind. They are more convoluted than you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAtty. Gen. /Kissinger\n12:50 p.m.\n1/20/71\nK: Bob, Geo. Shultz and John Ehrlichman and I are having a meeting at 4:30 today\non a problem we discussed with you.\nAG: We discussed that but they said they changed the time to 9:30 tomorrow\nmonning.\nK: If that's true, fine. They didn't get to me. The last I had was 4:30 today.\nAG: Maybe we have meetings mixed up.\nK: I will straighten it out and get back to you. Anyway, I am delighted you are\ncoming.\nAG: Glad to be there.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nLaird/Kissinger\n2:50 pm\n1/20/71\nL: I have several things that we are ready to present and I part have been\npresented and I have talked with the President informally about them but I think\nwe should present them. Dave has this CINC thing with commanders and chiefs\nand we have the joint chiefs aboard. I think we should submit it in writing and\nbrief the President.\nK: After the State of the Union. Next week.\nL: Xxxxx Yes. The other item I talked with the President about. Hearings\nwill start mid-February and we haven't got list of all names but probably around\n25 witnesses. A couple have X backgrounds as Defense Attaches. They are\nout of the service but have volunteered to tell about some things they have\ndone in various foreign countries.\nK: Very helpful.\nL: We have it worked out SO we bring the civilian control but don't run tactical\nintelligence. I haven't presented it to the Chiefs yet because I wanted to give it\nto the President first. I talked with him generally about it in Dec. We will\ntell the Chiefs. They will oppose what was in process because of the J-2\nfunction but we maintain that but they don't know that yet because I felt first I\nshould tell the President.\nK: I was writing you today. They President has ordered Shaltz to look at intelli-\ngenceorganizations\nL: That's Schlessigner's deal and I know what he recommends.\nK: He wants nothing done before he looks at it.\nL: I have to do this.\nK: Why?\nL: Because we have to put in civilian line up.\nK: You said you were putting investigative functions under civilians.\nL: The intelligence gethering is now under SecDef but the\nis under\n.\nPut the intelligence gathering in attaches working in civilian communitie\nabroadwe will have no trouble.\nK: That's not approved here.\nL: The President was told and he understands.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nLaird/Kissinger\n2:50 pm\n1/20/71\n-2-\nK: To run something by in his office is not an approval.\nL: We have to do it before the hearings. It's a weakness and we have to admit it.\nK: What is it?\nL: To establish that civilian control involved.\nK: I didn't know the issue.\nL: The military can investigate civilian people in foreign countries without\nauthority. That's the same problem as domestic intelligence. It will be continued\nbut we need better control. It's worked out. The Pre eident should see it first.\nK: And the Chiefs.\nL: I don't want the Chiefs to know until -- I told the President hevould\nsee it first.\nK:Nx Why don't you send it over and I will ask the President what he thinks.\nL: I think heIshould talk to the President. It will be a political problem.\nK: Will you send over what you are proposing todo?\nL: I will send a memo on the direction we are going. We have\non\nBOB on this. We cannot make reductions in intelligence.\nK: I agree on that.\nL: What Schlessinger is considering I had Froeke sit down with Schlessinger\nand explain it. I think the discussions were very adequate and I don't think the\nPresident should do anything before ****** I talk with him.\nK: Send us a memo. Just to the President.\nL: Could I do this? Geo. Anderson has made comments. Could Froeke W sit\ndown with him?\nK: Sure.\nL: Then I will sit down with the Chiefs. Just W SO we can maintain what we are\ndoing.\nK: If you could give me a piece of paper and I will discuss it with the President\nand then we will bring you in. But we will not do anything wiek wit h out you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nLaird/Kissinger\n2:50 pm\n1/20/71\n-3-\nK: (cont) I knew nothing about this until now. We won't take action before you talk\nwith him.\nL: Let's not get BOB in it.\nK: No, this was on budget thing but this consersation is -- -\nL: Good. One other thing. Do I understand we should brief Sullivan and Green\non this?\nK: Let Johnson.\nL: They wanted their bxx our briefers over there today but I cut it off with Bill\nbut said we would do it over here.\nK: Exactly right.\nL: I thought you should know in case of feedback.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nRELCON\nU.A. Johnson/Kissinger\n3:24 pm\n1/20/71\nK: On this Annual Report business. We are getting our drafts now into a shape\nthat in a day or two they can be looked at. The President has changed the date\nto Feb. 25. That's for us and 3 weeks earlier for yaj. So that gives your people\n2 weeks before it goes to the paximgx printer. The stuffdsx that bothers you can bd\nchanged. But 2 weeks good weeks of working time. What I would appreciate if you\ncould set up a system so it doesn't xxxxxx leak all over town so every country\ndirector doesn't look at it. The reason we haven't shown you anything is because\nthe drafts have been so bad there's no reason for decision until it's been good.\nWe have your report.\nJ: Sure thing.\nK: What we will know do when our stuff is in good shape, I will have Cargo XX sit\nin on resolving drafts. They won't be final but we will proceed from criticism.\nJ: He has a good feel for this.\nK: He did a fine job last year. I just wanted you to know our feeling. I will call\nhim tomorrow when we know where we stand.\nJ: Findxx Fine. Thanks.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nAlex Butterfield\n1/20/71; 7:35 p.m.\nB: Bob thought I should check with you and Ehrlichman on seating\nfor the State of the Union on Friday. From Connally and Bush on,\nwe have gone from seniority. Do you have strong feelings? Some\npeople feel we should have the Mayor of Washington in the President's\nbox. You sat there last year, too.\nK: Yes, that's right.\nB: Before Bob passed final judgment he wanted your input.\nK: Can I bring Jill St. John?\nB: Yes. Ehrlichman is not going to be there. He thought Ray Price\nshould take his place.\nK: And I am hurrying back from Chicago to make it because I thought\nthe President's feelings would be hurt.\nB: He says he is going to be out of town. They have Dr. David -- is\nDr. David senior to you. After the Ass'ts we plan to have Ray Price & Klein.\nK: Set me up for the motorcade, etc. Thank you, Alex, it was very\nthoughtful of you.\nfeg\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nBrian McDonnell\n1/21/71 9:20 a. m.\n[Missed first sentence\nM: Talked to them and they thought your schedule was the most\ntaxed. But under these circumstances they accept it. The only thing\nthey asked is that\nTom Davison; I gave you his name. He didn't\ncall you but his brother might have. Margie Shumar (sp?), and B\nBell.\nK: Are any of them indicted?\nM: No.\nK: Okay. This may take a week or two to set it up. You are coming\nwith them?\nM: They ghought it best for me to.\nK: I'd fexexlx be delighted.\nM: I'd feel better myself.\nK: I still don't have a ruling on what they think. I don't know if the\nSecret Service will want to search them, which I would deplore.\nM: I would deplore that too. The subject of the discussion would\nbe non-violence. I mean they are not going to be asking you to intervene\nor anything like that.\nK: I douldn't. I don't know enough about it to. But I want to do it\nand I think I can get it done.\nM: Okay. But I have told them and I give you my word, this is\nneither a plot to sit in or a plut to get publicity.\nK: Okay. We'll get together.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMcGeorge Bundy/Kissing r\n1/12/71 9:30 a. m.\n1/21/71 ?\nB: I've got a couple of questions, one of which I need some constructive\njudgment on. I hope to come and see you otherwise when you are back.\nK: I'd love to see you. I planned to call you on Friday to see when.\nB: I've got to come down next week or the one after.\nK: You want to have lunch next week?\nB: I think I could do that.\nK: I think I could do it on Monday or Thursday.\nB: While my secretary is bringing my calendar let me talk with you for\na minute. I had a talk with Matthew Meselson and he and I are wondering\nwhether there's a chance to getting people to look at the ecological restora-\ntion program, rather than an exchange of bad tempers as to how it happened.\n.He has a special concern with the Geneva Convention\noh well, that\ncan wait till lunch [The \"he\" probably refers to someone else. ]. I akked\nwhat we could do philosophically. He said have a program not to say what\nhappened at this or that, but what is the ecological, constructive future.\nHe found some very good Vietnamese scientists. What I need to know from\nyou is where the most grown-up input point is, where there ought to be a\nlistening point. He says he is not going to\nGoheen(?).\nK: He's good on that and that office is going to take a major interest in\nit and David at OST is our best contact point.\nB: I have great personal regard for Meselson\nK: He is a fine human being and I always use him as a sample of how\nconcerned scientists can solve a problem. The only problem I have on this\nis that it doesn't surface in a way that's just pointing out moral ineptitude\nB: He is very sensitive to that. This kind of casual use of the preferred (?)\nweapon is one thing we don't seem able to control in American beligerency.\nK: If the war in Vietnam were over and this were seen as a means of\ndisciplining further use of it I would think it essential. We have banned the\nuse of it now. It will be phased out by May. It is being stopped now.\nB: Why not sooner?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nBundy/Kissinger\n1/12/71 9:30 a.m. page 2\nK: It's a bureaucratic thing. It is not in practice being used now in any\nsubstantial way. It was easier to get it done that way and I don't know all\nthe details.\nB: One of the things I would like to do is to know who to talk to so this\ncould be part of a reconstruction and not a judgment of the past. Is this\nsomething I should call on Mel Laird about?\nK: Or J\n.\nB: Or should we talk about it at lunch? If you could get two sentences\nabout it from the\n.\nMy main thing is that\nif Meselson is half-way right the government of Vietnam and some scientists\nare doing some constructive things there. I don't think the President is\nlocked on this.\nK: No, he has a good record on it.\nB: If he were to say, without anything in the past\nthis is a good\nthing to say. So why don't you get a sniff of that and we'll discuss it further at\nlunch. Now what day? Thur sday, is that workable?\nK: Yes, that's workable.\nB: Good. See you then. We'll check on it later next week.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSisco/Kissinger\n1/21/71 10:00 a. m.\nS: I keep reading about me and you in the newspapers.\nK: I know, but you and I know they aren't true.\nS: Why don't you attack me one of these days. Maybe that would help.\nK: If you keep up your practices of the last three weeks that's coming.\nS: You made one mistake at the last Review Meeting.\nK: What was that?\nS: You said let Sisco run the tactics and that's what I'm doing.\nK: I'm just biding my time.\nS: Henry, all the changes in the Sadat letter are good except one. Do\nyou remember on page 6\nyou don't need to have it in front of you.\nK: I remember it.\nS: When we said \"We stand on our past statements of what is contained\nin that last\n11\nThere are things involved here it¹s absence will\nbe noted and this is a more general way to put it.\nK: But the Israelis have asked us not to do that. They have specifically\nasked. If this surfaces we'll have a row.\nS: They have been trying to get us to back off for three months. We\ncannot and we will not do that.\nK: I'm not asking us to. The letter you sent to Riad as a so-called\n\"personal\" letter last week stands. I just don't see why we have to tie the\nPresident to that also.\nS: That's the point. I don't feel this holds him down and I think you have\ngot a serious problem in reference to that point\nItr really convinces\nthe Egyptians that there is one policy in here and another in the White House.\nB:\nBut you people have been putting that out anyway.\nS: No we haven't Henry. I don't accept that. Now let's get serious for\na minute. That's not true and you know that.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSisco/Kissinger\n1/21/71 10:00 m. page 2\nK: No I don't. You know what's being put out; let's not kid ousselves.\nS: But look at how general this is: \"We continue to give 242 or full\nsupport and stand by our past statement\n11 Here's a change that will\nfurther water it down. Have it read just as the Secretary has written\nRiad. Just say we stand by our past statement\n11\nK: That I can go along with.\nS: It hurts me to suggest that but it's a compromise.\nK: Let me think about it but it sounds okay.\nHow is it going?\nS: These people have exchanged substantive positions.\nK: By the way, we have not gotten those memos we asked for on where\nwe stand.\nS: You have gotten some and will have more probably tonighy.\nK: Okay. /What next?\nS: Next we are convincing Jarring to put out a report to note progress,\nto obviate the need for a Security Council meeting.\ncease-fire.\nWe are trying to convince him to move the talks to a higher level than foreign\nministers.\nK: Don't you still think it is going to deadlock.\nS: I thought that all the way along, but the door is at least open; Israel\nis playing it very well and very serious.\nK: Why are they so quiet about this?\nS: That's one way to convince the world that you serious whether you are\nor not, rather than making a lot of noise. The otherside has not played it as\nwisely. But you can't find major fault with either side. But so far so good.\nI assessed this at about 100 to 1 at the last Review Meeting. It's about 99 to\n2 at the moment, but not much more. But we're putting a positive face on\nit because we're trying to get Jarring to provide the Egyptians with a public\nrationale to get on with the cease-fire.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nH. J. Heinz II/Kissinger\n1/21/71 Noon\nH: I mentioned to you the Bilderberg this coming spring. I wanted\nto confirm your colleagues Rockefeller, George Ball\nwant to extend\nan invitation. It's in April in Woodstock Vermont.\nK: That will make it a lot easier.\nH: I will have Joe send you the agenda. One items of particular interest\nto you: the possible change in relationships around the world in the light of\nthe Nixon Doctrine and how it will affect the Europeans. You think that\nthere's a chance of your doing it?\nK: It's paattically certain unless some crisis I can't foresee occurs.\nH: Of course. Good. I'll be in Washington Monday. Any chance of\na drink or dinner or is that a tough day?\nK: Every day is tough. Why don't we aim for a drink. Where? How\nabout the Metropolitan Club?\nH: Okay, I'm sorry I don't belong to a club in Washington.\nK: No, this is good.\nH: Okay, what time?\nK: 6:30 - 7:00.\nH: That would be lovely.\nK: Let's say 7:00.\nH: Good, that's easier for you. That was a nice piece in the Times.\nK: Except every time you get praised you make 75 enemies.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPackard/Kissinger\n12:16 p.m.\n1/21/71\nK: Who is that genious General who kept the President from precipitous action in\nthe M. E. ? I've heard that a couple of times. The President wants to know so we\ncan get his advice more often. Where do you think that came from?\nP: XREEXXX Probably somewhere around here. Beecher is our fellow.\nK: The President asked me to ask you.\nP: Tell him I will look into it. I called about the DPRC meeting -- we want\nto postpone it until next week. Two - three alternatives on what the Congress's\nreaction might be. If we had the reaction we would know more firmly what we should\ndo. It's what Shultz wants.\nM K: Monday or Tuesday?\nP: Yeah and I will get another document to you.\nK: That's fair.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nGerard Smith/Mr. Kissinger\n12:29 p. m., January 21, 1971\nK:\nJerry, how are you?\nS:\nAre you calling me?\nK:\nI'm returning your call. You wanted to come over about\nthe budget?\nS:\nI want to send a letter to the President, but I wanted to talk\nto you first. It's substantially broader than the budget question.\nK:\nIf you are living up to the traditions of the Cabinet, can I\nread it in the STAR today? What is it about?\nS:\nSafeguard, SALT, and the necessity for some high-level\nstatement on the negotiations. We are handicapped by the Soviet\nposition being known and ours not. I want to propose that the President\nsay something.\nK:\nCan it wait until the State of the World report the end of\nFebruary? I believe the President is going to cover it in that.\nS:\nI think it can wait until then. It will take a lot of work beforehand,\nand I don't want to staff it until I know for sure.\nK:\nI want to discuss with you two ideas the President has -- on\na personal basis. How about 6:00 tonight? I also want to discuss\nthe procedure for handling Safeguard at the NSC meeting. Do you\nthink we need another Verification meeting before that?\nS:\nNot if you can really schedule 1-1/2 hours at the NSC level.\nK:\nWhy don't I run over with you the issues to be presented at the\nNSC meeting -- a statement of the issues which is essentially what\nwe summed up at the last meeting. At another Verification meeting, we\ncan only state our perplexities.\nS:\nIf you could get DOD to state\nK:\nLet me also get a feel for what you have. See you at 6:00.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSisco/Kissinger\n1:08 p.m.\n1/21/71\nS: I am having hand-carried to you a telegram of seenario I spoke to you about.\nI don't want bind of clearance at the WH. I haven't sent it to the Secy. of State.\nI will take care of it if I can have your reaction.\nK: That's fair enough. Thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMax Frankel/Kissinger\n2:55 p.m.\n1/21/71\nK: A1 Haig told me that Terrence Smith called yesterday to say you are dealing\nwith the wrap up. I know you won't write on my wishes but I am not interested\nin scoring points and I just as soon leave matters allx alone. If I have managed\nto get you to check with me on allegations, I have acheived my purpose.\nF: I have one paragraph of the episode which puts it in more accurate framework\nbut it's an aside.\nK: Other thinks there are no need to discuss at all. I did that only to --\nF: I appreciate that. Absolutely.\nK: Two years from now no one will remamber who said what but what we did.\nF: And you will even survive the NYTimes.\nK: May I tell you one thing? When you are told I won or lost a bureaucratic battle\nyou must assume they are wrong because no one knows my position because\nI take the defix devil's advocate position. To be sure ideas are sound. So that A\nrecommends this and done over the opposition of B is not true. Over all your\npieces are thoughtful.\nF: I don't know if you know about the request from Rosenthal. I understand\nit's a bad week. Abe came down once before and we couldn't do it but he is goxx\ngoing to VN.\nK: I will see him. Next week is bad. But I want to see him on his merits. It will\nbe worked out.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPackard/Kissinger\n3:15 p.m.\n1/21/71\nK: I have been trying to reach Mel and I have to go to the President. We are\nhaving a WSAG at 4:00. I understand that Alex Johnson sent you a cable this\nmorning which came out of a meeting with you yesterday.\nP: Gen. Hughes sent it over to me now.\nK: A copy has gone to the President. He bumped it back to me and he doesn;t\nwant cables to go to him. He wants it handled in the WSAG.\nP: We have trouble with the wording.\nK: No, but we want to discuss it. It may not go. You are ixx not wedded to sending\na cable?\nP: I talked to Alex and how we will get it there on a secure basis.\nK: We want to discuss whether any cable should go.\nP: I will be prepared to do so.\nK: We just want xaxx various alternatives.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nLaird/Kissinger\n5:45 p.m.\n1/21/71\nL: I understand you are trying to get in touch with me. I am meeting with\nXEXXXXXX senior colleagues in the Senate and House. 50 senators and several hundre\ncongressman.\nK: Did you quiet them down?\nL: Fulbright and Church are loaded for bear. We are coming out OK. Will be\na hell of a flack because these guys are being interviewed and our guys shy away\nbecause they don't want to be in the forefront. We will X win it.\nK: The President asked me to tell you how much he liked your press conferenc\nand when he needs a strong XXX right arm you are there.\nL: I thought I wouldn't go on the news shows Sunday. I ha ve gone far enough.\nThey wanted to bump Reagan. I thought I should lay low.\nK: We want it x quited down. He also felt if we go on making TV statements\nif we could in addition make the point of what he said that if other side steps\nup infiltration, we will take other steps. He said it on June 3.\nL: I have that.\nIf they\nK: step XIX up rate of infiltration we will step up flow of supplies\nand more and that's what we are doing.\nL: What's happening - I talked to Long and Stennis. They feel that the President\ngave them too much assurance and he didn't have to go that far. I know how that\ngoes.\nK: That was a mistake. A number of us had doubts then.\nL: We will come out OK. I was there when he talked with Albert. I offered to\nstep out but he told the President I was there. Carl feels all right. He will be\nhelpful.\nK: Two other things the President is sperating on the assumption that you are\nfor what we are planning. What we discussed Monday. We have mumblings from\nState\nL: You have that they take that - I sent it to you and the President. I gave\nit to you and Bill Rogers and asked it to be confidential. Thieu raised the point\nthat he thought Souvanna would run on us.\nK: They sent over a cable today that they tried to get directly to the President.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nLaird/Kissinger\n5:45 p.m.\n1/21/71\n-2-\nL: They only quote --\nK: They want to be sure it's in that you are opposed to it.\nL: They say they have in mind Laird's conversation with Thieu and\nis to\nbe conducted. Bunker called me and said if it gets into State it will not\nbe approved. He said I want you to know that because it will raise the hackles\nYou will have a hell of a time and I hope you don't have to go through channels.\nK: the President wants to be sure you are back of him.\nL: I recommended it.\nK: And that we handle the proposals. Because we get proposals from State\nand we have to say where you stand. We are counting on you to help us.\nL: I will help you.\nK: He isn't eakek eager to get the cable out. The more warning the more\nopportunity for leaks.\nL: I told Baxx Packard it will leak before the operation. I said you must hold\nit close.\nK: They insisted on Green and Sullivan. I probably should have vetoed it but\nthey will say we kept their experts out.\nL: You don't have to worry about Bundker.\nK: We are getting Godley first. The President didn't approve that.\nL: Bunker will be helpful to you.\nK: We don't want cable traffic started.\nL: On the withdrawal they are not even using cable traffic.\nK: You have been a great sport and the President is counting on you. We will\ntake heat on this.\nL: I called him about the Russell family.\nK: He hasn't had a chance to return it yet, has he?\nL: I just want him to know what we are doing and we are handling it and\nwe are taking care as best we can.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nLaird/Kissinger\n5:45 p.m. 1/21/71\n-3-\nK: When is the funeral?\nL: Monday.\nK: XXWXXX He was a great man. They drop and the SOBs stay around. Interesting\nthat Kennedy lost.\nL: I was over there. I had breakfast with Long. They put the candidates up\nto calling Long andxStexxixx he wanted to screw Kennedy (this wasn't clear\nbecause Laird was laughing). They did a private vote which was 31-44. If\nit had been roll-call Kennedy would have won.\nK: That's something. They should have done it in the Republican caucus.\nL: No, it would have been the same. There's not the jockeying going on there.\nIt's interesting.\nK: Faxcinating. We will be in close touch.\nL: I am going to -- on the Hill we are all right. They will give us hell in the\nSenate tomorrow. Seven gues who are going -- Church leads off with Fulbright.\nK: Should we give a briefing on what we are xxx doing?\nL: We have a briefing and Vogt is ready to go. They are set up for Monday.\nI hoped we could do it beforehand. They feel that tomorrow is SO screwed up\nthey wanted to wait until Monday but with the funeral they will probalbly\nwait until Tues. Johnny will do it.\nK: Let's get Green along too. You shouldn't take all the he at.\nL: That's right.\nK: With ????\nL: Those gues are okay. Stennis and I had a good visit. He wanted me to know\nhe supported what I said yesterday.\nK: He should say it publicly.\nL: They get shell-shocked over there. I told him that.\nK: They better get into their trenches. There's more coming.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nAmb. Dobrynin/Kissinger\n1/21/71 6:05 p.m.\nK: Welcome back.\nD: How are you? Why are you travelling around somuch?\nK: I have to go to Chicago. A year ago I agreed to speak at the\nmeeting of associated Harvard clubs as one of Harvard's distinguished\nporfessors. Now I am not a professor any longer.\nD: I don't know whether to congratulate you or not.\nK: I just hope you'll remember me when I'm teaching at some small\nschool somewhere.\nD: Oh I will, I will.\nK: My son was very pleased with the book you gave him.\nD: Good. Could you send me one of his paintings when he paints\nsomething interesting?\nK: Yes.\nD: But you will be out all day tomorrow?\nK: I am leaving at 7:45 in the morning and will come back just before\nthe State of the Union.\nD: What about Saturday morning at *xx 10:00.\nK: Fine.\nD: And I'll come to you.\nK: Yes.\nD: at the usual place, yes?\nK: Yes.\nD: 10:00 on Saturday.\nK: Good, and good to know you are back.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nDr. Seaborg\n1/21/71; 6:20 p.m.\nS: I have been talking to John Ansler (?) about the difficult personnel\nclearance case involving AEC and I thought I should discuss it with you\nand Bill Rogers and finally perhaps the four of us could get together.\nI arranged to see Bill Rogers tomorrow and was hoping we could get\ntogether.\nK: I will be out of town. How about Saturday?\nS: That will be fine but I was planning to go to New York.\nK: Well then let's do it Monday and we will call you office with the time.\nS: That would be fine. Okay and we will have our girls get together on a\ntime.\nfeg\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nRon Ziegler\n1/21/71; 7:00 p.m.\nZ: I talked to the Secretary of Defense today and told him how well he did\non TV. I told him I hoped there were no problems. (K put on the laughing\nbox) What is that?\nmy\nK: I have just flipped lid. It is just getting to me.\nZ: What is it? Where did you get that? What is that?\nK: Next time Dobrynin calls me I will say all I have to say is this and put\nit on.\nZ: Where did you get that. What is it? Is that on a tape recorder?\nK: Okay, now what do you have to say? It's a little machine.\nZ: I want to get one.\nK: It gives people confidence about their security advisor. Now when\nanybody asks if you are really the second most powerful man all you have\nto do is use this.\nZ: We talked about the Nixon Doctrine and so forth and Ineedled him a\nlittle about Jerry Green. Said it was a PR goof and certainly was not policy.\nIn any event he said he did not feel inclined to testify on the Hill until\nafter the President's foreign policy message went up. But I heard on\nTV that Rogers is inclined to testify. It doesn't make a damn bit of\ndifference to me. It seems it would be better off to testify than not.\nK: Look, we are going to take so much heat in the next few weeks it\nreally doesn't matter.\nZ: Why does Laird always want to play it so cute?\nK: Because he is a little boy. He must have been the cutest little boy\nin Lawrence or wherever he is from.\nZ: Was he upset with me?\nK: The key to Laird is he bitches one morning and then he goes on to\nsomething else. If Rogers bitches he keeps it up.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nRon Ziegler\n1/21/71; 7:00 p.m.\n-2- -\nK: Laird bitched to me Wednesday morning and then he has not said\nanything more. I would not worry about him. I think you are in a strong\npxx position.\nZ: I think if Committees call us to testify we should do it right away.\nK: I think that is right. One point that the President keeps making is\nin his June 3 speech he said if they step up infiltrations we will do what\nis necessary and he said that we should hit on that when we have an\nopportunity.\nis not (?)\nK: Times is going to write a separate story on the year end\n.\nThey are going to have one short paragraph in the wrap up of Frankel (?)\nHe may say relations are so awful they may be a major menace.\nfeg\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nProf. Hoffman\n1/22/71; 10:00 p.m.\nH: Nice of you to call me back.\nK: It was good to see you the other day.\nH: I must say I don't think our colleagues were at their best.\nK: They were 100 percent predictable.\nH: It was also slightly too large a group. You will be seeing Guido\ntomorrow?\nK: It turns out I have to go with the President to Georgia -- something\nfor Russell.\nH: Much to my annoyance and indignation one of the students has\nfinally spoken to the Crimson. Actually it is of no great interest.\nIt was the girl who started stammering, and I gather she has been\nunder pressure from other students. The others have been quite\nannoyed over it.\nK: Is it a nasty piece?\nH: A silly piece, yes. Very stupid. Were her own feelings. When\nI asked here why she did it she ddid it because of what has been\nhappening in Cambodia, etc.\nK: What the hell do they think is happening in Cambodia? You know\nthere are only about 200, 000 South Vietnamese involved and the\nof air operations is ridiculous.\nH: I know. I want to apologize for the group and I hope it won't make\nit difficult for other groups.\nK: No. It is unfortunate. What it probably means is some journalist\ndoing an assassination piece will probably pick that up. But if he wwants\nto do it he will find something else anyhow. As soon as I get off the\nworld report I would love to have you come down and have a chat.\nH: And when you come up please let me know.\nfeg\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nHAK-President\n1/24/71\n2:30 p.m.\nThis is just the tail end of the conversation.\nK: What I will do is keep this thing going forward and keep the others\ncommitted to it and then you cancel it if you agree as your decision and\nnot as a result of anybody's pressure on you.\nP:\nI think we want to go the summit route and risk the fact that we\nmay not have one or\nThe best legacy we could leave is to kick the\nhell out of Vietnam. ??? Before 1972.\nK: We should think beyond 1972.\nP: Wexaxx We Ive got to think in terms of the fact that exerybody every day\nwe are here we've got to do those things that no one else will do. ????\nK: I dictated a conversation I had yesterday and I think you will find it\nsignificant. In the meantime I'll keep planning on going fowward with\nthe clear understanding that final orders will not be given for another\n10 days.\nP: In terms of the announcement I think you are absolutely right. Let\nthat come naturally. My own view is that if we do choose the summit route,\nonce we have done the Cambodian thing then in our interest it is better\nto get the announcement a little earlier than a little later.\nK: When -- about the middle of March?\nP: Yes, March 15. March 15 gives us a ride on it. April 15 troop\nthing is going to be a dud. I am not going to make it.\nK: With the other announcement, you don't really need it. I think we\ncan do it around March 15 and by that time we should have shown enough\nprogress in the two areas we discussed and of course you can have launched\nthe Vienna talks. By that time the basis will be in place or they will\nnever be in place.\nP: Let's see what these options are: We will discuss them at very top\nlevel -- only among ourselves, first. Moorer I have great confidence in.\nYou, Haig, myself and Moorer will kick the thing around. Then we will\ngo the Laird and the others.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nGen. Clay/Kissinger\n1/25/71 9:05 a. m.\nC: Thank you for calling.\nK: My schedule got all screwed up. I should have called you during\nthe weekend.\nC: That's all right. I called you regarding the investigation of Radio\nFree Europe but then I found out the White House already knew about it and\nhad tried to stop it.\nK: We knew about it too late. The bureaucracy knew about it for siæ\nweeks and told us 24 hours before.\nC: That's criminal.\nK: It's an outrage.\nC: It really is, and I didn't think Case was that kind of fellow.\nK: No. But we were not told till 24 hours before and for six weeks\nState and CIA had been flapping around about it without telling us.\nC: Well, that's what I was calling about. But by the time I got the\ncall through I was reading about it in the papers so it was too late. But I've\nbeen a supporter of Case for a long time and that he would do thiswithout\neven telling anyone really makes me burn. One other question Henry: Did\nthat Acheson statement take you by surprise.\nK: Totally.\nC: That's what I thought.\n]\nK: And it wasn't set up for that purpose.\nC: I know, that's why it's such a shock to me.\nK: The value of this group is so the President can let down his hair\nwith them.\nC: And it only arouses enmity in this country and challenges Brandt in\nhis own country.\nK: We did not know about it or authorize it; we would have\nit had we known about it. And for him to blast the Secretary of State didn't help\neither. I will keep you posted.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nV.P. /Kissinger\n10:20 a. m.\n1/25/71\nVP: I am fine. I say I am. It makes no difference.\nK: It makes a difference to me.\nVP: I have a cold. Senators, President and Reagan and I met with John Mitchell.\nIn the course of the meeting the President asked me to get in touch with you to\narrange a trip to Japan for Reagan rathex latter this year. Also Korea and a\ncouple of other countries. I don't know the details but he asked me to call.\nK: I will taxkx take care of this. Are you in town this week?\nVP: I am here today but out of town on revenue sharing this week.\nget\nK: Today I am swamped. But I would like to exxexto see you to catch up.\nVP: I would like that. (coughs).\nK: You really do have a cold.\nbraut\nVP: The first in a year and a half and it's a (bute ?). (He questions his staff\nre seeing HAK tomorrow morning). Tomorrow is impossible.\nK: When will you be back?\nVP: Firday afternoon.\nK: I will be out of town.\nVP: How about Sat. ?\nK: I am taking my children to Cape Kennedy.\nVP: I will be ther too.\nK: Will you be there Sat. night?\nVP: No, I am not going until Sunday. I haven't made my decision.\nK: Let's do it early next week. Did my Harvard colleagues come after you on fund\nraiding?\nVP:* Yes. I don't know when there will be. I think an appointment is in process.\nK: It shows that greed is more important than principle.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nV. P. /Kissinger\n10:20 a. m.\n1/25/71\n-2-\nVP: It always has been. I will bet that the American Civil Liberties Union\nwill not rush to Guinea to defend those people that were sentenced.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDr. Low/Kissinger\n10:28 a. m.\n1/25/71\nL: I wanted to report to you on some excellent discussions in Moscow between\nthe Soviet Union and ourselves. We were well recieved and the results exceeded\nmy hopes. We have an initial agreement covering eseentially all areas we discus.\nsed before I sent. They were willing to discuss freely with us. Time will tell\nwhether they will follow through. We will work in working groups and meet in\n6 mos. to a year. First inidcations are good. I took tip the possibility of\na joint docking experiment with us. Their reaction was positive. They would\nlike to think about it. They asked that we not discuss it publicly.\nK: That doesn't give us trouble.\nL: I was pleased with his reaction.\nK: I am delighted.\nL: As far as public statements are concerned, I talked with Peter Flanigan\nSaturday. He thought the President might want to say something about the\ngeneral xxxtxxx tone now. But since we released a communique on the general\ntone I wonder if it wouldn't be more appropriate for the President to wait\nuntil the 60 days are up when we can release the entire donument.\nK: Yes and the President is putting out a document at the end of next month\non our relations with several countries. Why don't you do a memo to me on\nwhat the President can say ** about this.\nL: A memo to you I have done and where things stand now and also saying\nthat I have a commitment tomorrow to talk with the House Committee\nof Astronautics and Science (?). I intend to go into this but not beyond what\nwe have in the communique.\nK: I haven't seen the contents.\nL: It was general and rleased in both countries.\nWould\nK: Fine. xDixx you draft a few pages on what the President can say on space\ncooperation?\nL: I will have it in a few days.\nK: See you this weekend.\nL: Delighted you are coming down.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Dobrynin/Kissinger\n10:33 a. m.\n1/25/71\nD: I reveived ;the following reply. The reply goes like follows: the name of\nthe representative who might handle this matter from your side as well as\nfrom our side was not mentioned and will not be mentioned. This is for sure.\nFor your personal information, the boss of that man and himself were generally\ninformed of the possibility of a letter of the subject. They warned to handle\ninformation with extreme care.\nK: I appreciate this. I will proceed as discussed and make an appointment\nlatter this week.\nD: When do you expect this man?\nK: I will let you know when we meet. I talke to the President on Sat. and his\nresponse was positive.\nD: We will meet this week.\nK: Godd.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nELCON\nV.P./Kissinger\n12:05 p.m.\n1/25/71\nVP: My manifest XSK for the Cape shot shows you and two children and\ntwo guests.\nK: No.\nVP: You are boing the night before?\nK: Yes and no guests.\nVP: Thank you.\nK: You are terribly nice. I may want to come back with you with my\nchildren. You are terribly nice.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Packard/Mr. Kissinger\n1:53 p.m., January 25, 1971\nK:\nWhat is that intelligence unit doing charting my staff?\nP:\nI didn't see anything on that.\nK:\nI sent a note to Mel concerning the SA intelligence unit\nof DIA which was assigned to chart Kissinger's staff; they gave it\nup because it was too complicated. I told Mel in the next Review\nGroup we could wash that one out.\nP:\nI didn't know about it.\nK:\nI was just kidding Mel.\nP:\nThis manpower thing -- after asking to put off the DPRC last\nweek, we have now a time element. I think the issues are pretty\nwell defined now we are down to $4 billion for the all-volunteer\nforce concept. BOB wanted to put more money into II Category.\nWe wanted to keep a fair amount to out so we could do some experimentation.\nWe have moved along a lot closer/their position and can allocate more\nafter talking to people on the Hill. But we have to go further. It's a\nquestion of whether the draft can be extended two years or more\nand there's a question on student deferments.\nK:\nWe have a meeting scheduled for Wednesday.\nP:\nI think it's Thursday. But if you have trouble scheduling it,\nmaybe the working people can get together and get essential agreement.\nMel has to go up the first of February before the main Committee\nand talk about manpower. Flanigan is concerned that we get an agreed\nposition soonest.\nK:\nMaybe I can move the meeting to tomorrow.\nP:\nIf you can't, maybe we can work it out at the staff level.\nK:\nThe issues you raised I am not so concerned about working at\nthe staff level. But I would like the longer range issues discussed\nin the DPRC meeting. I will let you know.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger\n2:15 p. m., January 25, 1971\nK:\nHow are you, Mel?\nL:\nDid you have a pleasant weekend? I had one or two things\nto check with you on. (1) I got the memo on slipping the Foreign\nPolicy report another week. I'm going up this afternoon and speak\nto those Committees to get those appearances delayed. They have\nme scheduled for the 3rd and 4th of March.\nK:\nIf they can move it to the 17th, all right.\nL:\nIf they put up a stink, I may be coming back at you and work\nit out for the 7th and 8th of March.\nK:\nYour posture statement isn't the big problem we have.\nL:\nThe only problem I have here is trying to get.\nThe Armed\nServices Committee think we are their friends and they can't understand.\nK:\nSee if you can get a week out of them.\nL:\nI thought I should keep you informed. Mahon and Stennis will\ntry to cooperate, but XXX when I tell them two weeks, they wi 11 bitch.\n(2) On the work we are doing on the posture statement, I understood\nwe would get a copy of the fough draft of the Foreign Policy statement.\nK:\nWe will send you the strategic chapters -- which you are mainly\nconcerned with. We will send you everything we have ready starting\ntoday.\nL:\nI want to tie in our thrust with yours.\nK:\nWe got behind. But we will send it today or tomorrow.\nL:\nI will put Bill Baroody on it.\nK:\nCould I ask you not to let it bounce all over your building. You\nare not our problem anyway, but we would appreciate it.\nL:\n(3) They evidently have gone public because I didn't approve\nthose trucks for China.\nK:\nGod damn it; I know it.\nL:\nI just said no.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger\n2:15 p.m., January 25, 1971\n- 2 -\nK:\nYou did what you were supposed to.\nL:\nI said no. This idea of my dragging my feet on a decision.\nI am going to be asked publicly. At the hearings, I will have to say\nI oppose it. If I am going to be overruled, I don't care. I can't\ntake another position right now.\nK:\nYou won't be overruled by us.\nL:\n(4) I have been having a quiet visit with one of the fine leaders\nfrom the Marine Corps -- Chapman. We had a long talk this morning.\nI told him I would go along with Cushman for Deputy at the time\nChapman retires. Here is the problem within the Marine Corps which\nI think should be understood by you and the President. If Cushman\nhad not been at CIA, he would have been forced to retire one year\nago. He is senior to Chapman. I wonder whether we shouldn't put\nthe people to work to make Cushman a four-star general at CIA?\nK:\nI will have to consider it and will talk to the President. It's\ncertainly a possibility.\nL:\nWe wouldn't have to wait for Chapman's retirement. We have\nforced four Generals to retire, including Chapman, as they come\nup with.\nWe have stuck to that policy in the Marine Corps. If\nhe had not been at CIA, we would have had to retire him one year ago.\nThey consider him out of the Marine Corps, so the law didn't apply\nto him.\nK:\nLet me talk to the President. This is a real problem. We\ndon't want stories that we rammed it down their throats.\nL:\nI think we should look at it. Chapman thinks it will be a morale\nproblem because they forced four others to retire this year. Should\nI send that Davis thing over for Deputy?\nK:\nHold it for a day or two while I clear the whole thing up.\nL:\nHughes went and told Cushman, and Cushman talked to Helms.\nK:\nThe whole thing is a mess now.\nL:\nI thought I would have to have Cushman come over to talk\ntoday or tomorrow.\nK:\nLet me talk to the President about the four-star possibility.\nIf the President insists on the Deputy, you could still bring him over.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger\n2:15 p. m., January 25, 1971\n- 3 -\nL:\nI won't talk to Cushman for a while. (5) The President\ncalled me Friday about a few of these operations -- the commando-\ntype things. I told him the plans are lined up. I told him not to put\nthem on the platter just now. We can look them over. There are\nseveral things that can be done. When I was talking to him, I told\nhim about a section I had in my report. He said he didn't have my\ntrip report yet.\nK:\nI'm sure it's in his bag.\nL:\nI said I was sure it went over.\nK:\nI have a copy and I am sure he has. It must be a clerical\nmix-up.\nL:\nI locked myself up for two days to do that report.\nK:\nI will check on it and call you back. He usually reads these\nthings over the weekend, and I'm sure he had it with his weekend\nreading.\nL:\nOkay, Henry. Thank you. Good-bye.\nK:\nGood-bye.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRogers/Kissinger\n3:20 p.m.\n1/25/71\nK: Several things -- one, I had Seaborg in here this morning on that\nclearance problem. Do you think we should get together to discuss that?\nR: Yes.\nK: I don't see how we can refuse it withough a Board.\nR: You will have another Oppenheimer case. You will be forced to\ngive a hearing.\nK: Particularly since he has txx been to Williams as a lawyer. I don't\nknow what we can do but act advisorily.\nR: I spoke to John about it. It's going to be embarrasing internationally.\nHe thinks you can do it without a hearing. I don't WEX see how you can\nIt's this fellow's livlihood.\nK: Idon't know if he should or not agx get a clearance. We will never get\naway with denying a clearance without a Board. I will try to schedule\nsomething after the NSC on that. Two other things -- on these operations,\nI am going to try to schedule a meeting right after the NSC for 4 of us\nto review it again. President and the 4 principles.\nR: It's important. I don't have fixed views. Heshould think of the pros\nand cons. He should have military judgments in writing SO if it blows he\nwill have judgements.\nK: I have asked for ????\nR: I also have a problem of testifying Thurs. I don't want to be in the\nCambodian situation where they ask questions and I xxxxxxx can't be\nfortheoming.\nK: They haven't asked on that.\nR: I think the President whould focus on the problems.\nK: Absolutely, that's why I think we should have a meeting.\nR: The key is Stennis and we need to talk with him. He\nwith Javits by acquiesence. He said he was opposed to it.\nK: We have to talk to Stennis and make Congress thing closwer then last\ntime.\nE.O. 12958, DECLASSIFIED as amended\nBy\nNLN P-GH Persec 3.3(b)(1) PerLtr Aug 2007\nNANARA\nDate\n4-7-09\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to ExecutivelOrder 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSANITIZED COPY\nRogers/Kissinger\n3:20 p.m.\n1/25/71\n-2-\nR: We have a telegram for Godley today saying go ahead to Souvanna.\nK: Do you think we should make it a message from the President?\nR: Either way I don't have a strong feeling. We wanted to be accomodating\nas possible to the President but my own fiew is to keep the President\nout of it.\nK: That's what I think or let Godley raise it.\nR: Or send a message saying the Administration wants.\nSANITIZED\nPer. 3.3(b)(1)\nK: That would be my instinct. One ot er thing that may not have come to\nyour attention. Fessenden sent back a CIA report saying\nHillenbrand was here and he knows\nwhat was discussed. ? ? ? ? ? and outside of that, no discussion of\nany kind.\nR: On this other operation has the President thought it through and\nis he convinced or is he thinking it through?\nK: 95% convinced stage. That doesn't mean we shouldn't tell him things\nhe might think about.\nR: OK. It may well be that wey to do it --\nK: Why not schedule as a general review of the operation instead of\nregistering objections.\nR: (Oh, I wouldn't. ) In making judgements he should think of ramifications\nand decide then whether to go ahead but box I wonder if there are things\nI know that he has thought about.\nK: I don't think he would take it amiss if points were xeax raised even\nthought he is leaning towards it.\nnot\nR: Why not bill it XIX as way of changing his mind but to review all conse-\nquences.\nK: Let Moorer give briefing and we can raise concerns. I would be\nglad to raise some too.\nR: He should ask questions. One thing that's interesting to me and I saw it\nwhen Vogt briefed the Senators. He was talking convincingly of how success-\nful our weapons are in truck kills and it sounds like they are not getting\nanything through.\nSANITIZED COPY\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nRogers/Kissinger\n3:20 p.m.\n1/25/71\n-3-\nK: Why not bill it as a review of the situation. Moorer brief. I will\nraise concerns and everyone else can raise concerns.\nR: Good and make sure it's not like last time. Touching base even when\nit's going on is a help. On the question of Cambodia in case I testify.\nIn June he said we wouldn't give air support to Cambodia and you\nconfirmed that. Mel --\nK: XSEX Went overboard. The President asked me to talk to him saying\nthat this first referred to\noperations closing out of last year's\noperations. What we would generally do and then secondly, if they\nre-enforced then we WO u 1d ?????. The firstxæos raises more\nproblems because people see it's limited to that week or month.\nR: And it didn't read that way. I think on these things we are better\noff ot say our basic policy remains the same. In view of the changed\ncircumstances you can see ????. No legislative restrictuion.\nK: And basically what we are doing is caused by increas of NVN\nactivity. The maximum number of sorties is 40 a day.\nR: I will mention that when we talk.\nK: We will definitely have a meeting on Wed.\nR: I don't see any harm in saying basic problem is basically the same.\nSome slight alteration in policy XSK for this purpose, what of it?\nK: If you stress that the other side EXEX escalated.\nR: Make statement that minor variation of policy statement --\nK: Don't get the Nixon Doctrine involved.\nR: That has nothing to do with this. We don't want to leave the impression\nthat everytime a nation with which we have a treaty is\nwe will\nuse air power.\nK: I will check with you tomorrow on anything on the other operation.\nR: Did the President ever read the CIA assessment?\nK: I can't say but I gave it to him. I read it.\nR: I thought it was pretty good. It neglected to XXXIXXXX point out -- saying\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\n4\nThis document has 13526 and has been determined to be declassified\nRogers/Kissinger\n3:20 plm. 1/25/71\n-4- -\nR: (cont) Boutram (?) was trying to promote the general idea and as\nthat fact will cause Souvanna a problem it would appeer we are adopting\na policy his opponent was suggesting.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nNLN ODECLASSIFIED P 4064\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELON\nE. Minor/Kissinger\n6:05 p.m. 1/25/71\nM: Could you brief the V.P. on Monday the first?\nK: I will get my girl to call you. I will definitely do it on the first.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nSecretary Irwin\n1/25/71; 7:30 p. m.\nK: On that cable you brought me, we would like to change the thing in\ntwo ways. I have already discussed it with Bill. Rather than make it\na telegram from the President we would like to have Godley do it and\nsaying Administration believes (?). Secondly, we would like it phrased\nin such a way No, that's alright all of this is considering -- otherwise\nit is fine. You look at it to make sure he is not saying definitely he will\ndo it. You might say that this is pending his reaction.\nI: I did not have a chance to talk with you, Henry. I would like to talk it\nover with you.\nK: The President has addressed this it great lengths so we can't go too\nfar away from it. I will arrange a meeting so that the President can exchange\nhis views on Wednesday. Are you against it?\nI: I didn't want to see the President. I have apprehensions about it. Are\nwe lunching on Wednesday?\nK: Yes. We can talk about it on Wednesday. We have to get Souvanna's\nreaction on this.\nI: I agree. We have to move quickly on that.\nK: We will not give the final okay until the weekend.\nI: I will look forward to Wednesday.\nK: If when you read the messageover you feel it promises it absolutely\n**\nflatly\nI: I think that one paragraph makes it very clear but I will check it. Fine,\nHenry, the only other question I have is these annual reports. Maybe we\ncan talk again on Wednesday.\nK: But we sent some of the material over, We sent four chapters over this\nmorning.\nI: Well, I asked this morning. I guess we got them after I asked.\nK: Now something will come over everyday. If we could read comments\nsomewhere else besides the newspaper\nI know where they come from.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nSecretary Irwin\n1/25/71; 7:30 p.m.\n-2- -\nI: We can argue on that.\nK: I know everything on the world report comes from State. Max Frankel\nsaid that yesterday -- the fact that State qa was elbowed out of it, etc. You\nought to talk to Richardson about it.\nI: Okay.\nK: But at any rate you have four chapters and you I/will be getting more everyday.\nfeg\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nJohn Roche\n8:50 p.m., 1/25/71\nK: My, God. I tell you you are not honorable anymore in the circle\nfrom which I come. Here we all love you but among the academicians\nyour name is going to sink into oblivion next to mine. In this building\neverybody loved that article.\nR: I got a letter from Dean Rusk. He said the only thing I neglected to\npoint out was that he fired Hillen\n(?)\nK: Except for one or two White House assistants that see the President\ndaily no one really knows what the hell the President is thinking.\nPresidents get to be Presidents by not telling everybody what they are\nthinking. I don't even know 1/10th of it in domestic affairs and I\ndon't even know everything in foreign policy. I don't even know who\nthe Under Secretary of the Air Force is.\nR: Neither did Lyndon Johnson. I got a call from President Johnson\nand he asked who is this Hoppies (?). I am going stir crazy. With\nthe exception of Bill Bundy and a couple of others there is nobody to\ntalk with. I am going to be coming down to Washington tomorrow and\nwill stay a few days. If don't know what you schedule is -- is it\npossible to get together for lunch?\nK: Lunch is impossible but why don't you call my office to see if we\ncan get together. I will make some time for you.\nR: The Cambodia thing is starting to get absurd.\nK: We had 15 air support missions a day and they make it sound as if\nwe were bombing Hamburg.\nR: I know! I have been there. Alright, I will be staying at Watergate\nand I will give you a ring tomorrow afternoon. I don't want to sound\ndeprecatory. I don't think the state of the world will be altered that\nmuch.\nK: We need it for internal reasons. We have State plus leadership\nproblems.\nR: You know what they said about Katzenbach. I once offered the\noption of making me Under Secretary of State and I would be there for\nsix months and then they could have an EXEMXIXX execution but in the\nintervening six months I would through out all of those bums.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nJohn Roche\n1/25/71; 8:50 p.m.\n-2-\nK: Somebody has to do that sometime.\nR: I still think you ought to get Graham Martin back in there. He\nis a tough guy. He really has the wammie on those guys. They\ncan't impeach his credentials because he is an insider. I disagree\nwith him basically, but he is first-rate.\nK: Give me a call tomorrow and congratulations.\nR: Thank you.\nfeg\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Joe Sisco\n9:03 p.m., January 25, 1971\nS:\nThe other thing I meant to mention to you is obviously when I\nput it to our friends if there is any really strong reaction,\nthere will be ample opportunity to take another look at this thing.\nK:\nParticularly with the minimum encouragement we have received.\nS:\nGood, I just wanted to let you know.\nK:\nGood Joe, good that we had a little chat.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Hill/Kissinger\n10:55 a.m.\n1/26/71\nK: I just talked to the President and he thought it would be nice\nif you sat in on the m-eting with Juan Carlos. Just you and the\nSpanish Amb. but not the FonMin. Will you arrange that? And could\nyou give me a memo?\nH: I will give you a memo of conversation.\nK: The Preisdent is goosy about distributing that so let me\ndo that from here.\nH: I will send you one copy.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nGerard Smith\n1/26/71 11:05 a. m.\nS: Since the burden of what I would say if asked to say something is\ncontained in a letter of the 21st, I assume the President has seen it.\nK: Right.\nS: One pther point. You recall at Helsinki we proposed that the SAM\nupgrade question be given\nand we agreed in the interim on\nthe membership and terms of reference for the working group. The Sov-\niets said that sounded good, but said they would like a month to respond.\nWell, one month has passed. I would like to talk with Dobrynin and get\nan answer. I generally lunch with him once in these periods. I wanted\nto see if you had any problem with my asking about that.\nK: I see none.\nS: Okay.\nK: I would like for you to confine your comments to the part of your\nletter relevant to the Safeguard decision.\nS: Right.\nK: The letter is on his desk. I cannot swear to you that he has read\nit. But I will make sure if he hasn't already that he has read it by the time\nthe meeting takes place.\nS: Okay. Thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nFrank Shakespeare\n1/26/71 11:15 a. m.\nS: Are you returning my call?\nK: Yes.\nS: I called because I am back. I have spent three weeks in the Middle\nEast and thought we might talk about it.\nK: I am writing the world report so this is a horrible week, but let\nme set something up within next week.\nS: Dkay.\nK: How are you?\nS: I am fine. This was the most wearing but enlightening trip I have\never taken, particularly in the area around the Gulf. But I'llfill you in on\nit. What's new here? Anything specific?\nK: Nothing but bureaucratic wrangles.\nS: That Radio Free Europe thing I found disturbing.\nK: The bureaucracy is in a state of acute rebellion. And it will get\nworse as 172 approaches.\nS: I'll talk with you about that when I see you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nD. Chapin/Kissinger\nafternoon\n1/26/71\nC: I hate to bother you with=this but the President is thinking of using\nLawrence Rockefeller's home at Dorado Beach.\nK: Yes.\nC: Is it right on a public golf course.\nK: It;s on a golf course but set back. It's not on the ocean and there's no\nprivate beach.\nC: A quarter mile from the beach.\nK: Why not Caneel Bay.\nC: We have to kick someone else out (mentioned a diplomat) and it will look\nbad if he changes his mind.\nK: thas a house overlooking the golf course and they are some distance away.\nThey are within site 200 yards away. You have previousky privacy but no\nocean. The pool is on the road and there's not much traffic on the road. I\ndon't know if there's shrubbery on the road. It's a little smaller than the\nSan Clemente pool.\nC: Is there a beach he could helicopter to?\nK: I don't know. I think the helicopter pad is a 10 minute drive. There's\nan airport that Dorado Beach has. It's a lovely place but since he likes\nto have the ocean.\nC: We are thinking about a place to helocopter to.\nK: It's a long stretch. There are probably stretches not crowded but how to get hi\nhim there. It's not exactly a place to get away from the inhabitants. While\nin the house and it's environs it's private but not when he starts moving. I\nwould recommend Caneel Bay. The house has it's own beach. It's completely\nsecluded. Dorado Beach is an island for golfers. There's not much sense\nin going unless you golf. The house is about a quarter mile from the beach\n10 mins. walk. There's a beautiful view. It isn't immediately self-evident\nto me where the beach is that he could go where there isn't people but I didn't\nlook for one. The public beach isn't jammed but since he doens't like to be\nwith anybody.\nC: No sir.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nD. Chapin/Kissinger\nafternoon\n1/26/71\n-2-\nDoes he\nK: The pool is very pleasant. Doxyon want to go even if the weather is good\nin Fla. ?\nC: No but the weather is really bad unless it changes.\nK: It's better then Fla. if the weathe r is bad. Who are you dealing with in\nthe Rockefeller organization.\nC: They have talked to Lawrence Rockefeller's guy. We want to be sure we\nare not making a mistake. Hughes is doing it.\nK: Call Louise Boyer in Rockefeller's office. She handles this for the\nGovernor. klx She's the secretary of the family organization. She will\nunderstand.\nC Let me see where we stand. Louise Boyer in the Governor's office.\nK: CI 7 - 3700. Her husband is in charge of the hotel operation. She has\ngreat sense in these matters and I would tell her your dilemnas.\nC: She may know of another place.\nK: I would trust here completely. I don't trust Don Hughes' judgement even\nthough I like him intangibly. Agree?\nC: I don't commant on those things.\nK: Then you will outlast me.\nC: I work at a different level than you will ever have to.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAtty. Gen./Kissinger\n3:00 p.m.\n1/26/71\nK: They shouldn't put you on first.\nAG: You are getting as whacky with protocol as the rest. We have\ncompleted the call overseas and it's taken care of.\nK: My man will be there fomorrow.\nAG: I told him I anticipated seeing him.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger\n3:30 p. m., January 26, 1971\nK:\nI just wanted to touch base with you. Re that cable from\nGodley, we should make Godley tell Souvanna a little more so that\nhe has no misconceptions of what is involved.\nR:\nI don't know why Godley didn't do it. I think he has to tell\nhim exactly what we have in mind. If he has objections and claims\nduplicity, it would be a XMXX catastrophe.\nK:\nHe should know what we are doing. The President agreed\nin principle. Also tomorrow at that meeting, for your information\nI will see to it that I raise some questions so that we get it before\nthe President and have a free discussion about it.\nR:\nBill Sullivan said you mentioned something about Stennis.\nK:\nHe said something to me. I don't think we should talk to Senators\nbefore we have made or are very close to an irrevocable decision.\nR:\nIn the case of Stennis, I read the colloquy he engaged in with\nEllender and Javits. Javits described exactly what we have in mind.\nStennis indicated that maybe 'in and out' would be all right. He\nacquiesced to what Javits described. Javits was almost prophetic.\nI think we would have to be sure Stennis was on board. If there is\na diplomatic upheaval, we have to get Stennis.\nK:\nMy judgment is we have to make sure Stennis would come\nalong. But I would not do that without making sure the President\nhas talked to him. We have no right to assume that.\nR:\nIf we get on the verge of going ahead, I think the President\nshould talk to him and lay it on the line.\nK:\nThat is what we did on Cambodia with Stennis, and Stennis\nagreed with it. I think it's a little premature now.\nR:\nI do, too.\nK:\nbefore the President makes the final decision to go ahead.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger\n3:30 p.m., January 26, 1971\n- 2 -\nR:\nWe are in accord.\nK:\nI just wanted R: to check with you about your feelings about the\nGodley cable. /I asked Bill Sullivan to lay it on the line and tell them\nexactly what we have in mind. I don't think we should pretend\nsomething else. We shouldn't say it's just a raid. We should say\nwhat we have in mind.\nK:\nI think we have to give some feel for the length. That\nassessmentthe President had makes the specific point that if it is\nshort, it will not be very effective. Therefore, I think if we go\nin there, we should go in with the determim tion to stay through\nthe better part of the dry season.\nR:\nThere's no point in doing it unless you do.\nK:\nThe heat won't get any less.\nR:]\nIt will get greater.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Frank Lindsay\n6:53 p. m., January 26, 1971\nK:\nI have to run off but we have had some problems about Friday.\nL:\nI hope not a serious one.\nK:\nA serious one, after that Crimson story -- I don't care about meeting\nwith any student group again.\nL:\nI didn't see it.\nK:\nThey ran an article and made it look as if I am a liar after I\nspent 3 1/2 hours with them which is more than the Secretary\nof Defense gets from me. What I really object to is Gore is going\nto be there and I am acting as a straight man to Gore. I didn't\nwant to appear with John Price, that means Gore too.\nL:\nThe Gore thing, I didn't know they had done.\nK:\nI like Gore and I have nothing against him but I know what's going\nto happen and 20 minutes for Question and Answer is really not\nworth it.\nL:\n20 minutes, don't know how that came out of it.\nK:\nIt will be Gore making a speech.\nL:\nHow about putting Gore first.\nK:\nThat would be easier for me.\nL:\nDidn't even know they had asked Gore.\nK:\nLet me think about it overnight.\nL:\nWould hate really to see you not come now. I know it is awfully\nrough on you.\nK:\nI will not come if Gore speaks last. If I am straight man to open\nfirst and have everybody shoot at me, that I can't do. I will call\nyou about that in the morning. What time would I have to be there\nif I do it last, about 7:00 ?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Frank Lindsay\n6:53 p.m., January 26, 1971\nL:\nYeah. Do you want to hear Gore? Think the schedule is drinks\nabout 5:30 and supper, an early supper about 7:00. If you don't\nwant to hear Gore\nK:\nI would just as soon hear Gore.\nL:\nThey gave him an hour to an hour and a half. I would rather have\nyou at the end anyhow, then you could continue on with the kids.\nThere will be a number of business people, academic\nK:\nThey are all hostile to the Administration, I didn't see anyone on\nthe list who would support the Administration. I don't object to\nthat but I don't like to appear in the debate format and this is\npractically a debate.\nL:\nHow about doing -- you know how the hell it is to get the kids to\nunderstand, can we make it a joint venture?\nK:\nI do have to run now but let me talk to you tomorrow.\nL:\nAll right, I do hope you will make it.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Under Secy. Irwin\n7:00 p.m., January 26, 1971\nI:\nIt is okay from the Secretary's point of view. Much of the dry\nseason if this is not acceptable\nK:\nHow about the other sentence?\nI:\nPut in reference paragraph 9 to numbered cable, because he did\nrefer to it. If operations should proceed we strongly hope if he\nprotests and asks for a withdrawal, he will not limit his protests\nto one. If operation should proceed, otherwise it looks like\ndecision made.\nK:\nThe decision is pretty well made.\nI:\nYeah but is almost, better to say if operation proceeds.\nK:\nThe President will kick but I will take that on. Say \"operations\nproceed\" rather than 'bperations should proceed\".\nI:\nRight. I will get it out right away.\nK:\nGood.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Secretary Laird\n7:00 p. m., January 26, 1971\nK:\nOn this matter which we discussed earlier, that communication\nthe President wants you to keep it entirely to yourself.\nL:\nOkay.\nK:\nHe is attracted by that idea of yours.\nL:\nWe will go ahead and plan an operation so that we have planning done\nalong that line.\nK:\nAn air operation.\nL:\nNo, an enlargement up to\nK:\nThat's not the point, that particular communication is not to be shown\nto anyone. I would like to explain his thinking to you tomorrow. I\ndon't want to discuss it over the phone. It is essential that you\ncooperate in making the thing -- helping us go through with Phase 1.\nAlong the line of your thinking, no distribution of that particular\ncommunication is to be made to anyone.\nL:\nOkay, I'd better get the word to Dave too. Don't want him to talk\nto anyone.\nK:\nNeed his cooperation. Are you going to be at that meeting tomorrow.\nL:\nYes.\nK:\nI will talk to you tomorrow right after the meeting at Noon.\nL:\nI have postponed my departure now so I won't be departing until 1:00. (1:30 ?)\nK:\nIt is scheduled for 12 o'clock. You and I can go off after the meeting\nand I will explain his thinking.\nL:\nI don't think I should cancel out on this San Francisco thing again, I\nhave already cancelled and people will begin to think\nK:\nYou should go.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Secretary Laird\n7:00 p. m., January 26, 1971\nL:\nI'll come back this weekend. I am going to do a TV/Radio thing.\nK:\nYou had better come back by the weekend, don't\nL:\nWe will talk about that tomorrow.\nK: Okay.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nGov. N. Rockefeller/Kissinger\n11:17 a. m.\n1/27/71\n-2-\nR: (cont) more impressed that he was representing the President then that\nhe was on private property. Either bxex I or Lawrence will call.\nK: Either one.\nR: I will call Lawrence becuase bxex I don't know the details.\nK: It's a question of intangibility.\nR: We are thrilled he will be there.\nK: For future relations.\nR: We are all delighted.\nK: Looking forward to seeing you next week.\nR: I am counting on it. I will be in touch. It's no problem.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nGerard Smith\n1/27/71 4:15 p.m.\nS: I am told Laird wrote a letter.\nK: That's right, reiterating his position.\nS: I thought it was on the hard site question of changing it.\nK: Frankly I haven't studied it. My impression was that it was\non insisting we go forward on the four-site proporal. You have a copy\nof it?\nS: No, but Paul told me the substance of it\nK: That will not happen without a detailed discussion.\nS: My suggestion is that since the Secretary has already made up\nhis mind and the whole thing is a festering community and if it's up in\nthe air, you are not going to get\nto whether change mobiles.\nI suggest you organize a decisional process.\nK: Okay, I agree with you. It's purely a question of my time right\nnow. But the President will not have an opportunity to act on this\nwithout a decisional process. My experience with Laird is that nine\ntenths of these letters are written for the Chiefs of Staff and never go\nany further. But you are correct. We know what the issue is and\nshould put it in a decisional process.\nS: Okay.\nK: As long as I have got you on the phone, I have no one to suggest\nfor the dinner on the 4th. You were kind enough to offer.\nS: Okay, we'll see if we can get you some beautiful spy.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRogers/Kissinger (secure phone)\n4:20 p.m.\n1/27/71\nK: I just wanted to follow up growing out of the meeting today. I think he was\nwondering if the Dept. would draft a cable to Godley. The President doesn't\nwant to send a personal letter to the king but anything short of that would\nbe willing to do. And I think we should tell Godley phase one is starting and\nhe should present that as a preliminary precautionary move. It may kick (?)\ninto VN and it won't ? ? ? ? ? One advantage is if we keep the threat\nthere it is crazy to put it in the pipeline so we have to keep it plausible.\nR: We will draft it and let you take a look at it.\nK: I thought it went well.\nR: Yes, I did too.\nK: On Congress, we have to be honest. No games of word picking.\nR: The thing I was struck by and I hope he was that everyone agrees that\nVietnamization will work without this. If that's the case, then all we can\nsay is it speeds up the process or makes it less expensive put it's a hell of a\ngamble because it could defeat Thieu and set back Vietnamization.\nK: Without it we would be in great danger in 72. If we can reduce the SVN\narmy from\nto\nXXIXX isn't worth the chance.\nR: Or to 80, 000 by election day isn't worth it.\nK: I have locked Moorer into a position that he recognizes he must get a\ngood order on phase 2 and cannot go without the President's authorigy.\nWe will have a meeting on Tues. and we can still put it off for a bit. Your\nquestions is ? ? ? ? If the other sie knows whats the rush. So we shouldn't\nmove until we have x considered everything.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nIrwin/Kissinger\n6:30 p.m.\n1/26/71\nI: Onthe telegram. I showed ft to the Secy. and his point of\nconcern is the point of 6 weeks. He feels it's just dissembling (?)\nthat ========== everything based on season. That's what went in\nthe earlier cable. He had to leave to dress for a dinner and he\ncalled Packard and after talking to him said it was agreeable to\nDave. Leaves dry season in and added at the end * of the phrase\n\"if this is not acceptable to him and a shorter period would be\nacceptable, please advise for our consideration. \"\nK: I would say during much of the dry season.\nI: You mean in the earlier part?\nK: They would expect to stay in place during much of the dry\nseason. The President wants it to be as easy as possible for\nSouvanna.\nI: The Secy's point is --\nK: I understand.\nI: Your thought is during much of the dry season unless forced to\nwithdraw or\n.\nPlease advise for our consideration.\nMarshall just walked in and wanted to say something. Marshall said\nshorter period but no less than 6 weeks.\nHe didn't\nK: Let me go back to the President on this.\nXXXXXXX want it to be\nso forbidding to them.\nI: The Secy. is -- no use repeating -- feels strongly and sorry\nhe couldn't talk to you.\nK: Would he settle for much of the dry season?\nI: He would prefer not to x4 but I think he would settle.\nK: Tell him if he does that we don't have to go back to the President\nAlso the President wants Souvanna asked if he feels he must protest\ncouldn't he ask for the withdrawal of both North and South Vietnam\nforces.\nI: I thought that was in the other cable.\nK: He wants it reiterated.\nI: OK.\nK: Could you raise the sentence and call me?\nI: Going back to the other earlier one about notifing someone.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nIRWIN/Kissinger\n6:30 p.m.\n1/26/71\n-2-\nK: What earlier one?\n1\nI: You know, we talked about two different operations.\nK: I understand.\nI: He asked here if they see any reason we should.\nK: Than we will just proceed.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/The President\n7:24 p. m., January 27, 1971\nP:\nIt occurred to me one way we might consider it to be just a\nsecond and it would be to go for the big play but to do it in\nterms of -- remember we discussed previously the idea of laying\nit out in Paris and at the same time announce the big play and withdraw\nby a certain time, you understand what I mean. It gives a hell of\na kick to it and says we have fiddled around long enough. We are\ngoing\nto support the South Vietnamese and announce a withdrawal\nsomewhat along the lines of what you mentioned. What do you think?\nK:\nIt depends on the time frame we are talking about. If we announce\nit by the middle of next year\nP:\nThe total withdrawal.\nK:\nExcept for advisors.\nP:\nExcept for the residual 50, 000 until all prisoners are released.\nK:\nLet me think about it, Mr. President.\nP:\nThis would be all in one package. We are doing this -- - but clear it\nwith Thieu so he understands announce the whole program of\nwithdrawal right now but in order to do this we have to destroy the\nenemy capability. Of course, it still has the disadvantage of our\nRussian friends.\nK:\nAt least it gives them something to think about, there are limits.\nThere are reports that another group of ships on its way to Cuba.\nIf they keep playing these games with us\nand it makes it\na little worse for them to\nP:\nThink it is probably it is another way to play the game.\nK:\nI checked the intelligence, the fact that they don't have their men\nthere doesn't mean anything. They don't have the supplies to arm\nthe men\n14, 000 tons the men will follow after they position\nthe supplies.\nP:\nThat's the way they work it. In any event it may be we can't hack it\nbecause of the buildup but put that carrot out there. There is the carrot\nbut here is the stick.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/ The President\n7:24 p.m., January 27, 1971\nK:\nLet me think about it. I won't run it by anyone.\nP:\nOh, no, no. It is just in the\nstage. Go forward on the\nschedule, keep delaying every 72 hours and then wham let them\nhave it.\nK:\nRight, Mr. President.\nP:\nOkay, Henry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Frank Lindsay\n9:50 p.m., January 27, 1971\nL:\nAre you still at work?\nK:\nYes\nL:\nThat's terrible\nK:\nI just wanted to tell you I am sorry but I can't do it. In the light of\nthe forum and under these circumstances, too many problems\nespecially with the student group.\nL:\nI know it is tough.\nK:\nI see more students than anyone else. Even when they give me their\nword of honor and it's leaked to the newspapers but I can't do it with\nGore and newsmen there.\nL:\nLet me ask if we could do it in a way that Gore wouldn't be there,\ncould you do it?\nK:\nIt would be too complicated and I didn't think I would ever be part\nof a confrontation. Actually I like Gore and have no problem with him\npersonally.\nL:\nWhy not they have know that you were coming.\nK:\nYou can always say I got too busy.\nL:\nI will try to cover. If Gore is a problem, let me try to work it out.\nK:\nGore is the principal problem but there are two problems and one is\nthe Crimson article that appeared on a meeting where I spent nearly\n3 hours talking to a group of Harvard students which is more than I\ngive the Cabinet officers. It was a vicious, stupid article which I\ndidn't\nL:\nYou talked to the Globe people 2-3 weeks ago and it was not violated.\nK:\nThe newsmen don't bother me so much. What bothers me is the\ncombination of students and Gore who are hostile.\nL:\nDid you recognize any on the list of the group that was hostile.\nK:\nThat was however before the Crimson article.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Frank Lindsay\n9:50 p. m., January 27, 1971\nL:\nYeah, but the kids are not related to the Crimson people.\nK:\nThey were carefully selected by Stanley Hoffman as being\nL:\nYou can't talk to carefully selected students, pros.\nK:\nPros would be a waste of my time. It's not worth my time to talk to\na group of hostile students and I repeat that I have given more time\nto students than anyone else.\nL:\nI can't quarrel with that.\nK:\nI don't see any way how you could drop Gore.\nL:\nDon't know, it might not be possible.\nK:\nAbove all, I wanted to tell you I wanted to do it and I would have liked\nto do it especially for you.\nL:\nIt obviously isn't for me.\nK:\nI mean coming from you.\nL:\nYou may be quite right but it was their idea, they wanted you.\nK:\nBut did they want me simply to show the depths of depravity\nL:\nThey took the initiative coming out to see me, saying look we are\nconcerned about the world, we are not bomb throwers, we want to\nhear from the Administration.\nK:\nWhy did they invite Gore?\nL:\nMaybe they wanted the balance on both sides.\nK:\nThey had two more days.\nL:\nNo, after this is entirely within the group. If you don't come, I'll\nask Cy Vance who is coming to talk.\nK:\nHe is another critic.\nL:\nYes but he is well-balanced and he did support Johnson. As you say,\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Frank Lindsay\n9:50 p.m., January 27, 1971\nL:\nyou don't want to talk to the people who will already\n,\nit would be a waste of your time but I would hate at this late date\nto drop you off.\nK:\nYou can say I got busy.\nL:\nYes I can do that and would do that but they worked awfully hard to\ntake the initiative, they really wanted to talk to the establishment.\nK:\nSometime when you are down here, you can see my schedule and\nyou will see that I see more students than anyone.\nL:\nWhat you are saying is that you don't want to talk to students and\nGore at the same time.\nK:\nmorality plan when the Administration is set up as a victim.\nHe (Gore) is there to show that the establishment can kill a decent\nman and that's how it looks to me.\nL:\nMay have been true. Some of these with some hostile group and\nSDS kids but there won't be any of those in this group.\nK:\nThe main reason I called was to tell you how sorry I am.\nL:\nIf I can sort out the Gore thing, would you reconsider?\nK:\nDon't disinvite him without calling me first.\nL:\nI don't think we could disinvite him but maybe we could work it out\non rescheduling. Would you then reconsider?\nK:\nI would make an effort to reconsider anyway.\nL:\nMargo is here, would you like to speak to here for a minute.\nK:\nYes.\n[Mr. Kissinger then talked to Margo Lindsay. She said she had left several\nmessages for him. He told her he had only received one but that she had\nalready gone by the time he had gotten it. Mr. Kissinger told Mrs. Lindsay\nhe would love to see her and if possible to please let him know ahead of\ntime when she was going to be here and to come to see him. Mrs. Lindsay\nsaid that she would let him know the next time they come down. ]\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecretary Packard/Mr. Kissinger\n(not verbatim)\nJanuary 28, 1971 9:15 a. m.\njlj\nP: The reason I am calling is that I understand there is an\n11 a. m. briefing on the all-volunteer army over there this\nmorning and -\nK: Over where?\nP: The White House.\nK: By whom?\nP: Press people I guess.\nK: Oh, Goddamn it.\nP: We have the Stennis Committee hearings and have asked\nKelly (phonetic) to come over and I think this would be\njust disastrous.\nK: I will try and turn it off.\nP: I thought you could use your influence and get it cut off. I\nthought I would call Flanigan and ask him to try and cancel it.\nK: Flanigan must be in it somewhere. I will try and get it turned\noff.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nFrank Lindsey/Mr. Kissinger\n9:45 a. m., January 28, 1971\nL:\nI'm sorry to be taking SO much of your time.\nK:\nI'm sorry to be such a prima donna.\nL:\nI understand your position. It seems to me you feel you have\ndone everything you can to meet the kids half-way. I just wanted to tell\nyou one thing -- our own Student Committee commented to my fellow\nwho has been working with them that they were horrified by the\nCrimson piece. They said whoever had written it had misinterpreted\nit; it was a hatchet job which was totally unjustified. Our Student\nCommittee is on your side.\nK:\nHow about the Gore problem?\nL:\nI have thought about it further. To try to get him put to the\nnext day is hard.\nK:\nI agree.\nL:\nAll the more so that it doesn't put you in a bad position.\nK:\nI like him -- that isn't the problem. I just don't want him\nto answer me.\nL:\nHow about this possibility? Let Gore go first. Gore will\nbe gone the next morning.\nK:\nThe next morning is out for me.\nL:\nNo, you speak in the evening after Gore -- then you are in\na position for rebuttal and not Gore.\nK:\nI wouldn't take it.\nL:\nI think we can assure that Gore won't start attacking. You\nwould be on second. I can't give you a written guarantee that someone\nwon't misbehave. But I am damned impressed with the student group\nI have been working with. They volunteered the business that they\nthought the Harvard Crimson really acted in an outrageous manner.\nThey took advantage of you and did you in.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nFrank Lindsey/Mr. Kissinger\n9:45 a. m., January 28, 1971\n- 2 -\nK:\nLet me call you by 2:00.\nL:\nThis is a terrible imposition, but I really hope you can.\nK:\nYou have been a good friend -- I will call you by 2:00.\nL:\nI understand your worries and will protect you every way\nI can.\nK:\nI can handle them while I am there.\nL:\nThe press is completely muffled -- that is no problem.\nK:\nLet me call you by 2:00.\nL:\nThanks, Henry.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Joe Sisco\n5:24 p. m., January 28, 1971\nK:\nI just was wondering how you think you are going to proceed\nafter your conversation with Rabin.\nS:\nI think the first thing is to get a report out which we will do.\nAnd, then secondly, first of all we will have Wally Barber follow\nup. My judgment is they will squeal but take it. They were negative\nas we expected. Rabin put a bit of a show on. Before I make any\njudgment, let me follow up and let Wally take a crack at it.\nK:\nGive us a hint before you do something.\nS:\nI made you a promise, didn't I?\nK:\nYou are going on Wednesday with the Four-Power Meeting?\nS:\nAt the moment, the thinking is to temporize for the next\nmeeting. It is\ncomplicated and a very delicate operation\nwe are pursuing. From the other side, it's also becoming a factor\nas to whether the ceasefire gets extended.\nK:\nThat's why I was wondering whether you are going ahead.\nS:\nWe don't want to give any more away than we have to. Right\nnow, we are in a pressure and counter-pressure situation with the\nEgyptians. These are genuinely nervous people -- they don't know\nwhere they are going. We say, 'have confidence in us. The only\nway we can move in a sensible way is quietly on a step-by-step on the\nassumption you are willing to engage in the process of negotiation.\nIf you are not willing, we aren't going to do anything for you. We are\npounding. It's beginning to have a little effect. What we have been\ndoing successfully over the past 8 weeks is closing all options other\nthan the negotiating option. We succeeded in killing the bilateral\ntalks. We have done the next-to-best thing with the Four-Power talks\nwe have temporized. We are not going ahead in the Four-Power talks\nas the Egyptians want. The Israeli theory is it will get into a discussion\nof guarantees and the other three will use it as a backdoor attempt for\na blueprint. Which is true. It's hard to believe -- we have succeeded\nin running the Four Power talks for two years and prevented any\ndamage -- that's a good record.\nK:\nIt's not at all a bad record. Keep me advised.\nS:\nBy all means.\nlds\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nHelms/Kissinger\n9:15 a. m.\n1/29/71\nH: I wanted to check one thing with you. Yesterday WX two of my most senior\nofficers were invited for a briefing in Moorer's office to bring them into th\npicture. In order to be helpful on it we should be going on it. It would be useful\nin the Pentagon and here to have it coordinated in that area of the world.\nK: If we are serious, we have to do it.\nH: That was my impression but I thought I should check withyou.\nK: I haven't had a chance to canvas you - -having seen these things come and\ngo, is it desirable?\nH: On the question of militarily, no (contest) but with the statesmen we have to get\na better feel of it out there. We should have a military victory and a political\ndisaster. But it's important if we can bring if off because there's not doubt on\nthe importance of the area. We could set this fellow back.\nK: There isn't? Are you as optimistic about 72 as some of our colleagues?\nWithout it.\nH: I think that it's down the track that is our problem. We are pulling our\ntroops out and propping the SVN up but the time of greatest danger is 72. The\nwhole statistical base points in that direction. One other thing, I was not\naware from the briefing we got on Phase 1 that there was involved a question\nof taking over Cay Son and getting that air strip taken up. There will be a rise\nin American casualites during that. Does everyone know that? A lot of\nNVA troops up there. The lower level types focused on that yesterday and\nwanted up to be sure to be aware of it.\nK: I wasn't aware of that. Thank you for calling it to my attention.\nH: It might be worth a call.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSecretary Rogers\n1/29/71 9:30 a. m.\nK: I wanted to tell you that from reading the papers I think you did\nsuperbly. Even the worst\nThe Washington Post, what they report\nyou as saying was perfect.\nR: It's a classic case of lack of credibility of newspapers. Both\nhave the same lead story with exactly the opposite slant.\nK: Both have what you said the same way, but the conclusions are\ndifferent. But a reader with any sense would have to conclude that the\nsteam is out of it.\nR: On the Chup thing; is it possible to have the South Vietnamese do\nmost of the flying? On the other we had it geared up for outr ransport\nplanes to be used. We changed it and they did fine.\nK: That's their instructions: to use American only after South Viet-\nnamese is exhausted.\nR: It didn't sound to me as if they will meet much opposition. It\nlooks like they will just back away like they did in the incursions in\nCambodia.\nK: Let me go back to Laird and Moorer on that.\nR: If there could be just one flare-up instead of two.\nK: You saw the scenario?\nR: It relieves me if Souvanna is on baard.\nK: No, I mean the scenario for the Chup operation we worked out\nyesterday. But that assumes major American aircarft involvement.\nR: They had the same kind of thing in Kompong Cham; after we\nchanged it they did fine. No problem.\nK: Let me go back to them, and on the other, we should sleep on it\nover the weekend.\nR: We can't do anything about it till Tuesday anyway.\nK: Right, just let it go till Tuesday.\nR: Okay, fine.\nK: But I thought it came out very very well.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPackard/Kissinger (secure phone)\n10:02 a. m.\n1/29/71\nP: A couple of things I want to touch base with you on. It would be well to have\nRon Zeigler briefed on Pahse 1 and xDxx Chup. Ron appacently knows something\nis going on and I recommend Dan brief him.\nK: Sure.\nP: This situation in Equador. We are very much concerned about that. I don't\nthing we can acquesce on that.\nK: State f\nthat up. They shouldn't have thrown down the gauntlet\nunless they were prepared to pick X it up.\nP: We can get this support in the UN and they will vote against us in the OAS.\nSo if we go to the OAS firse we will be a bunch of fools.\nK: Let me take it up with the President.\nP: If there's anything I can do We are already pushing on this issue. It\ncould be disastrous. Third is a housekeeping detail. We are trying to get\ntrucks for Cambodia for help with the rice harvest. We have some military\ntrucks but they are hard and expensive to maintain. The Australians have\nsome commerical trucks. We need waver of\n.\nK: We will wave it.\nP: It will save money.\nK: It will cost twice as much for military trucks. I am certain the President\nwill wave it.\nP: Our latest with Souvana looks encouraging.\nK: Kx What do you think.\nP: I am in favor of going ahead. If we are careful in how we present this to\nCongress, we can minimize the impact.\nK: That's how I come out expecially since we have the Laotian imput. They\nwill pass us off if we canxxxxx come out okay. If we are restrained and have\ncasualites next year then we will baxx be blamed.\nP: If the SVN are getting to optimistic but I don't think they are. I don't think\nwe will get clobbered. I am for it.\nK: You have been a tower of strength through this.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPackard/Kissinger (secure phone)\n10:02 a.m.\n1/29/71\n-2-\nP: We work together the best we can.\nK: I have enjoyed it on a human and substantive leve.\nP: I think you should know that Mel is not as strong for this as he was. I will\ntalk with him Sun. night when he gets back. We will keep him posted on the\ndetails.\nK: It wouldn't be the first time the President has done it on his own.\nP:: We should stand by him.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nIrwin/Kissinger\n10:33 a. m.\n1/29/71\nK: I am ekx calling on the annual report. We haven't had any comments back\nfrom you and Ididn't expect any but so we stop it from being a brouhaha (?) and\nI figure I will talk with Bill Cargo and he will do things in the Dept. It worked\nwell last year. If my people start negotiationg with your Assit. Secys we will\nlose the thrust in things.\nI: I will coordinate with Bill and if any problem, I will come back to you.\nK: If Bill fexes wants to come over or however he wants to work on it. We are\nsending you chapters every day now.\nI: Occupies you with everthing else.\nK: If I am impatient at meetingsyou will understand the the report plus\nspecial operations and normal flow, etc.\nI: We should cut down the papers. On the first of two things we discussed\nyesterday do you have a complete px picture of what our\nis going to be?\nK: I have talked with Bill this morning and I am going back to Defense to see if\nthey can\nit again and reduce our participation.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMoorere/Kissinger\nmorning\n1/29/71\nK: Just in light of our conversations if you can keep your neurotic Xxix field\ncommander relaxed we have a good chance to get it into the next phase. Tell\nhim no more temper tantrums.\nM: I have taken care of that.\nK: I am having just to keep you informed, we are going to expand the meeting\nTues. afternoon or Wed. morning -- probably Wed. morning -- we are going\nto add Connollyx, Mitchell and not Agenw for the meeting. I am brieging them\nMonday afternoon. If you are XII there no one can say we loaded it. I will have\nHaig give them military facts and read Rogers brief of the other day. So tell\nAbrams to work with enthusiasm and vigor because it will probably go. What\ndate?\nM: I was going to play it according to the progress that they made but I would\nsay 5 or 6.\nK: It may slip a day. At least make it SO nothing irrevocable is done until\nafter the meeting.\nM: I will take care of that.\nK: Dick Helms says the road clearing will get us a lot of casualties.\nM: I don't think so. At least Abrams doesn't think so.\nK: xItxxxxxx The phase one part of it.\nM: Right. Not too much in that so far. We will give them X full support. I don't\nthink it will be bad. They are confident thatthey can do it. They will have support\nfrom both sides.\nK: You are talking Phase 1 now.\nM: They will have screening forces on bothsides.\nK: I will not tell you how to conduct military operations. We want to keep\nU.S. casualties\nM: Of course. We all do.\nK: OK.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nGerard Smith\n1/29/71 11:26 a. m.\nS: One loose end from the discussion in the NSC the other day. The\nimpression was left that although Soviet ICBM deployment is flattening out\nthere had been a substantial increase in testing. My record shows 236\nlast year, 231 in 1969 and 231 in 1968. This doesn't support such a con-\nclusion. In 1970 they tested more of their new ICBMs, but that was under-\nstandable because they were now. They also had\ntesting and\ntesting of new mods (?). But I thought you might not want to leave the\nimpression with the President that though their deployment is levelling\nout they are expanding the testing, which is not the case.\nK: I will get that to him over the weekend.\nS: Okay.\nK: Thank you Gerry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSisco/Kissinger\n11:30 a. m. 1/29/71\n(Sisco in Secy. Rogers' office)\nS: I am reviewing this section on the M.E. and I feel two things will have to\nbe done to it. One, it's very lengthy and goes into a considerable amount of\ndetail and I am concerned about passages that will have impact on the area.\nK: Why don't you re-draft it. We want every su ggestion of re-drafting and\nommission. We are open to suggestion. We don't want anything out that\nyou and the Secy. disapprove of. Will you tell this to the Secy. ?\nS: Yes.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nIrwin/Kissinger\n12:22 p.m.\n1/29/71\nK: One minor thing. I would like to shift the oil issue back to the Under\nSecretaries Committee even though the President wants. a report on it.\nYou are up on it more than I.\nI: Whatever you say. It's agreeab. e to me.\nK: Good.\nI: I talked with Cargo and Pedersen.\nK: I will not deal with Pedersen.\nI: I told them all contacts would be through Cargo. In the conversation Cargo\nsaid that Sisco had quite a week few ideas on the M.E. section and a different\nthrust of it. Without knowing much about itxpxexbx perhaps the principle diferences\nwould be throwing it in the cast of Soviet then Arab/Israeli. I said that for\nJoe to make any comments he wanted but go through Cargo. If it really seems\nto be depending on how substantive it is, it maybe at some point that we should\ntalk with you or you will want to talk with us or Joe.\nK: We will talk.\nI: The initial thrust will be through Bill.\nin\nK: We will talk and we don't want it totally emasculated but in M. E. where it's not\na delicate phase --\nI: All right.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSisco/Kissinger\nmid-afternoon 1/29/71\nS: There has just come in over the wire a new power play by the Egyptians\nas a further attempt to divert the negotiating process. They have put the Moroccasn\nto a letter to the President, Pompidou, Russians and\n.\nIt's only a\n3 paragraph letter and the thrust is no progress and must do this all through\nthe\n.\nThe same divisory tactics. I want to discuss with you how this\nshould be handled. Thant was going to put out a report today. He deak\ndelayed putting it out until Monday at the behest of the Egyptians. Now I\nunderstand. They have already indicated their intention to publicize this so\nwe must answer this letter right away so if then they publish this tomorrow\nthen we can publish the reply or IXIX leak the reply.\nK: Do you have a draft?\nS: Do you have a draft?\nD: I will have it for the Secy. and you in an hour. It's one of the situations\nwhere I will show the Secy. the reply. It's something you can clear for the\nPresident.\nK: He is in Caneel Bay and not reachable. I am leaving for Boston in an hour.\nGet it to me as quickly as possible.\nS: We have to move fast and I would like to demonstrate we can move fast.\nI need an hour.\nK: Do it a little faster. I will treat it as VNVN say -- with good will and\nserious attitude.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRogers/Kissinger\n4:30 p.m.\n1/29/71\nK: I just wanted to call. I haven't seen your press conference but everyone\nhere says you were outstanding.\nR: I think the President will be pleased. They are obviously on to the\nLaos matter but that's because of the embargo. I didn't forclose anything.\nK: That's exactly right. I understand the President's strategy If he\ndoesn't he wants to throw the fear of God into them and say as little as possible.\nPackard wants to brief the Senators on thre troop movements. we don't do that.\nIf we do go and brief them they think we have set them up.\nR: I agree. Let's call if off. On the other I am ixrx not concerned.\nK: It's a slight advantage.\nR: No one can say we mislead anyone. I was in such command of it that they\ndidn't have their hearts into it. They don't put up a fight.\nK: It's like lion taming.\nR: I asked questions 3xx4x rhetorical 3-4 times. It doesn't cost very much\nand we don't lose planes and men. I said to Muskie yesterday -- here are\nwhat we are doing and President should not be mauled about what we are\nusing or where it touches down or doesn't. We want to protect Americans\nlives. Hessaidxx I said what should we do? He ducked it. He said it xxxxx\nraises the risk of greater involvement. I said not if we continue to bring out\ntroops.\nK: And we control it and the idea of sliking into war is nonsense.\nR: Reactions were good.\nK: People here who heard it thought it was outstanding.\nR: On that other thing, let's not tell Congress for the moment. It's internal\ntroop movements.\nK: Build up in S. koosxx Laos and these are usual measures.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSisco/Kissinger\n5:30 p.m. 1/29/71\nK: My problem is that I have to take off for Boston. I have an 8:00 engagement\nthere.\nS: The Secy. has asked me to convey the following. He would like you to\nclear on the President's behalf as we cannot talk to the President. In 24 hours\nthis will be public.\nK: Can't we put it on the LDX? Isn't that faster?\nS: Sure if that's what you want.\nK: Do you have the care waiting?\nS: Yes.\nK: Well, come on over.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRogers/Kissinger\n5:35 p.m.\n1/29/71\nK: On that letter, I haven't seen either the Morroccan letter or the reply.\nMy disposition is to support as you and Joe think it desirable. I want to\nraise this question. What is the hurry of getting it out tonight?\nR: They will make it public tomorrow and make it difficult for Jarring and\nU Thant to make a statment Mon. --\nK: I see. Then U Thant will say one party claims no progress.\nR: They were going to do this tomorrow but the Egyptians asked them to\nwait and thexix because they didn't know why, they agreed. Then they sent this\nto the ambassadors of the big 4. We are afraid they will be weakneed.\nK: You think they would\nwith a letter from us.\nR: I think there's a good possibility if the king doesn't make this public. Then\nwe have a good chance of getting U Thant and Jarring to move. If the king\ntakes the lead of turning this over to the big 4, we are afraid U Thant and Jarring\nwill get xxxxlx cold feet.\nK: Do you think it's a good thing to consult the British about?\nR: Yes. I will have Joe do it. No use in consulting the French. I will talk\nto Joe about it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSecretary Rogers\n1/29/71 6:10 p.m.\nR: I got a call from Fulbright he is being beseiged with reporters\nand he asked what's up. I said the embargo has been placed by General\nAbrams and he is going to do the briefing so there are no misunderstandings.\nK: And we didn't know\nR: And we didn¹t know and that it is essentially a tropp movement in\nSouth Vietnam. He said is this preliminary to an invasion of Laos? I\nsaid if you are talking about ground troops going in the answer is no. But\nI said other than that when a decision is made IIll get in touch with you.\nHe was sort of gloomy. I said I can't give out any information before the\ndecisions are made. This is basically an in-country troop movement.\nBut I wondered if I should have Dave Abshire tell Aiken and Cooper that\nFulbright called me and this is what he said.\nK: We can say there is no decision to invade Laos.\nR: Plus the fact that in any event there won't be American ground\ncombat troops. In saying this we aren't saying anything we haven't said\npublicly. I said that at the press conference.\nK: I think it might be just as well.\n1/29/71 6:16 p.m.\nK: The only suggestion I have about the last conversation is couldn't\nwe avoid saying no decision has been made. That almost invites a pressure\ncampaign. Say it is an internal country troop movement and Abrams will\nexplain it all tmorrow.\nR: But then what they do is ask you. \"Does this mean possible invasion\nof Laos?\"\nK: But if we could avoid the impression that this is what we are meeting on.\nThen they are going to scream like crazy vall next wekk.\nR: But because of the movement. The question arose at the press conference\nbecause of the embargo. And then these people get the word about the embargo\nback here. The don't violate the restrictions on talking about the embargo just\nask questions in the area. Then they go to Fulbright and get him steamed up.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nSecretary Rogers\n1/29/71 6:16 p.m. page 2\nIn a case where secrecy is important it's a different matter.\nK: But I want to avoid getting an upraod started before the decision\nis made. Theyx They they can claim they backed xxxx us off of it.\nR: But that's because of the troop movement. You can't do this\nwithout raising all kinds of questions. What has had the effect on them\nis the movement and the embargo. I said to Fulbright if there is any-\nthing I can tell you I will. That's about all you can say. If you say\nNo Comment that's worse than.\nK: Say I have told you everything that is now going on.\nR: But those answers don't make any difference. The troop movement\nand the embargo and the briefing that's going to cause the flap. And that\nbriefing is going to be difficult as hell because they will say what does this mean.\nK: I wonder if we shouldn't have had a briefing. I wonder if we should\nhave just moved the troops. Well, that's water over th e dam.\nR: Yes.\nK: Let's just see what happens.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified."
}