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    "ocrText": "Mr. Kissinger/Secretary Connally\nMay 15, 1971 10:00a jlj\nK: Someday I am going to have a Secretary who will put me on the line first.\nC: If that is the greatest problem you have you are very well off.\nK: It is a question of propriety.\nC: How are you coming on the Mansfield thing?\nK: By our count we are even now and have a good chance. What do you\nthink?\nC: I think it looks good.\nK: This will scare the Europeans though. Even if it is defeated we can\nsay get busy to these guys. I do not mind scaring them just mind having\nit rammed down our throats. But I think we are in good shape. John, I\nhate to bug you on this Pakistani thing but I was wondering where it stood.\nCX: Henry, I did a memo on it and there are two missions going over there.\nI\nwill\nget\nthe\nmemo\nand\nsend it to you. We have been talking to the Pakistanis and thought they\nwould have done something but they have been slow. They said they would\nwork out the last part of it. I think this will work out very well today or\nMonday.\nX K: John, that is great. One thing. Can you get your people on these missions\nto take a benevolent attitude. We really need these guys for the next three\nmonths and it would help.\nC: Yes. I told them I could not tell them what was behind it but that it should\ngo through. They are talking in terms of a loan of $100 million and with another\n$60 million order.\nK: That is great. One more thing - the legislation on replenishment of Ida\n(phonetic). Do you think we will be able to get it?\nC: We just caught hell on some of these multi institutions and have been\nworking out our strategy. We think we will probably have to wait until the\nnew fiscal year starts.\nK: But we don't have to wait to submit it until then do you we?\nC: Oh no. It is going up right away. We won't get any money for it right\naway.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK: No, but McNamara thinks if it is submitted he can get an advance from\nthe British and the Germans. He can use it.\nC: In fact Henry, I think I signed off on that yesterday or the day before.\nK: John, it is a pleasure to do business with you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Mr. McNamara\nMay 15, 1971\n10:04 a.m. jlj\nK: Bob, I know you are going off. I just wanted ** you to know that the\nIda legislation will be going up.\nM: I think that is great. I talked to the Germans and told them they better\nget ready to supply something. Talked with Pierre Paul Schweitzer (phonetic)\nregarding Pakistan xlxx and I called U Thant who said we should not lose the\nmomentum.\nK: We will do our damndest to get this. Can you get an IMF Mission out\nthere?\nM: IMF and World Bank out there and we will get the World Bank to go\nin with other things. akxaxxkxxgaxxwxkaxexfxxeex We have free access\nto East Pakistan the first of June and we will have a World Bank Mission\nin xxxxxx there right away.\nK: We really need these guys for three monxxxx months and then we will\nrelent. It's good a bank mission is going in there.\nM: Henry, I wanted to tell you that was a virtuoso performance last week.\nK: You are kind to say that.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\nMay 15, 1971 11 a. m.\njlj\nP: Well, you got everybody under control there?\nK: Yes. You know it is tough going. I have a Verification Panel meeting\nnow and Smith is dancing all over the place. He is so delighted with what\nhe has that he wants to announce it. If we don't go on Thursday something\nmay leak.\nP: We are going on Thursday.\nK: I talked to Gerry -\nP: Has he talked to Rogers?\nK: Yes, Rogers knows.\nP: Will Rogers know the difference between the two?\nK: Yes. We will explain to him. We have 2 problems. The prab proposal\nmade to Smith was the one that we had talked about in February or March.\nAll that they did was take what we said to them at that time and gave it back\nto Smith now. We have got more than Smith did but in a whole different\nconcept.\nP: Smith is not to go out and State not to go out and say that all because of\nSmith's brilliant negotiation we got this. Notxwithojusk I think that we should\nhave some of the media people in - not all of them - just some of the main\nones. Chancellor, Severeid, Howard K. Smith. Even the columns I would\ntalk to. Roberts, is OK. I do not know who you have in the Times.\nK: Frankle will understand it.\nP: He (Smith) certainly must be surprised he got this offer.\nK: Of course, because - This is what they were going to recommend to you.\nP: And he is suggesting we take it.\nK: I am telling him that the President is in Key Biscayne, he has all the papers\nwith him and he is thinking about the whole thing. I told him you would see\nhim on Tuesday.\nP: I have to see Rogers before him and I think I should see him alone.\nWhat should I tell him?\nK: Simply that we have this proposal. You should not be too modest about\nthe agreement. The Soviets have accepted this and it is much beyond the\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nagreement they offered Smith.\nP: Say in March they came back and this and that. I have no problem with\nSmith. I don't give a goddamn about what he txixingxx thinks. But when Rogers\ncomes in how to say we handled that.\nK: Well, you could just say that we got a reply in early April when he was\naway.\nP: But we got it earlier than that. I will just tell him that we proposed this\nin January and they came back in April while he was away. This is simultaneity\nright?\nK: They have accepted the ideas of linkage and simultaneity. Even linkage we\ngot through your efforts.\nP: I think I will start with Rogers simply by saying that we started in January\nand while you were away they came in with a response. We are going to turn\ndown what they submitted to Smith and then they came through with this.\nHave you told Smith to keep his mouth shut.\nK: Yes. They all think that you are thinking over the proposal and they\nwouldn't say anything to jeopardize that. They have been pretty quiet.\nP: They must not put anything out on it.\nK: Chalmers Roberts called me yesterday and he knew nothing about it so\nthey haven't gotten wind of it.\nP: When we put it out it will have to go further than Chalmers Roberts.\nI don't like this business about putting ourselves under a gun. Any agreement\nto agree on ABM and\nK: break the deadlock.\nP: Forget the deadlock. What is this going to mean to the common person\nand will they understand it. Danger that it will not be understood. Point\nis we are saying that two governments commit themselves to an agreement?\nK: Not exactly that far. But the common person does not know about these things.\nThey will take their lead from the person who does know something.\nP: Yes. Another thing we will have to keep the Senate and Congress in line\nbecause I do not want them to defer funds for ABM.\nK: We should just tell them that exver everything has come through just like\nyou said. You said that if they voted for ABM it would help with the negotiations.\nIt has. I think this would help with the Congress.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 3 -\nP: But to what extent does this point us under the gun and put the Soviets\nunder the gun to come up with an agreement and to negotiation freeze. There\nis not a goddamn thing in it\nK: That is what the Soviets will try to do but we aren't going to let them and\nthat is not what we have now.\nP: The way the paper is written now does not provide for action this year?\nK: No.\nP: Just serious discussions? If we don't get some sort of agreement - that\nshould be our goal internally. If they do not have action this year they will\nbe yapping.\nK: Come back from\n...\nABM only with just an agreement.\nP: How does it differ. I know but you tell me. Read it to me.\nK: I don't have it in front of my at the moment but it says we will agree also\non certain measures to limit offensive weapons. Does\nnot use the word freeze.\nP: XXXXXX Smith will see the difference. Have to get the papers to see\nthe difference.\nK: Chalmers Roberts will write it is great.\nP: We want it far beyond Chalmers Roberts. It is important for you to\nsit down with Scali and Rogers and decide who should be briefed.\nK: I see, but I think I must do that.\nP: We must sell two or three of the leaders.\nK: I must do it because I understand it better than Scali.\nP: Oh yes. But I don't want you to waste your time. You should see only\nabout 1/2 dozen people. That's right. Only you can brief. We need the\nthree networks, Post and Times and Stuart Hensley (phonetic).\nK: I will set down with Scali on Monday.\nP: You are going to tell him on Monday.\nK: No, I will do it on Tuesday after you have talked with Rogers and Smith.\nP: I want you to scare people to death if word leaks before 12 noon Thursday,\nthis puts us in a very awkward position because we have agreed with the Soviets.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 4 -\nK: Wxex etterxy 08 tx ***** bats One word - just language to work\nout. Nothing at all.\nP: But as far as he hasx is concerned we have agreement that we go on Thursday\nnoon.\nK: Yes.\nP: On this Mansfield thing - I just talked with McGregor who is going to\nbe on Face the Nation or Meet the Press\nthose who would vote unilaterally\nto bring forces home are looking at only one side - reducing American costs -\nreducing the danger of war is another thing they should look at and reducing\ntensions. If there is an imbalance created then this would have the effect\nof increasing the chances for disagreement. Southeast Asia, Middle East.\nK: I think that is an excellent way of putting it Mr. President.\nP: In the 19th Century any sort of pwwerxwasxkidd stability was baxistetx built\non the balance. This was the way the British foreign policy worked. All on\na balance of power.\nK: I think that is an excellent way of putting it.\nP: This Breshnev thing has been of help to us.\nK: It has had a good effect X for us. I think we are well covered.\nP: I do not think that it was bad. He asked for it. We didn't know that Acheson\nwas going to use that word, but everyone knows his tongue. It was an\nasinine proposal. You feel pretty good about that one?\nK: I think we could come out excellent.\nP: You know I tried to imply with Brook. That any person who votes against\nthe President on Monday will look bad on Thursday. They are not going to\nlook very good when this thing comes out on Thursday if they voted against\nthe President.\nK: These things altogether are getting them really upset. Said at the time\nof Laos that the Chinese would come in and the Chinese moved toward us.\nThe Mansfield thing then SALT comes up. They have got to think that you have\na hell of a lot more up your sleeve and you have.\nP: We have Muskie in a trap.\nK: If you would want to shoot a bullet in June we could break out the hotline\npart of it.\nP: Save it for a Summit. We have to have a few things to talk about.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 5 -\nK: We can break that out at 10 days notice.\nP: We have to get this out though. I think you should talk to Wilson,\nBill White. Reducing our costs as a laudable objective but shoula think of\nthe balance of power and reduction of tensions also.\nK: I think that is an excellent way to put it.\nP:\nXXX Europeans will become nervbus and there will be an increasing in\ntensions. Haldeman was telling me about how Rogers caught Symington.\nK: Yes.\nP:\n7,000 tactical weapons. Bring them back here. and Rogers said\nhat we don't want them back here. I think these guys are NOX in an awfully\nbad wicket. They are playing on the Nation's terrible, terrible fatigue\nover the war. The Nation thrashes out - like on Calley. We just want to\nbe sure that they don't thrash out and do not bring down the whole house\nwith them.\nK: I think we have scared them.\nP: You are going to Paris on the 30th? You are going to England first\nand then - -\nK: I don't know if I can work that out now.\nP: Well you can go to Paris if you want to. Take a weekend. You don't\nhave to go to England as an excuse - you can go to Paris if you want to.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nJerry Warren/Mr. Kissinger\nMay 15, 1971 11:30 a. m.\njlj\nK: Have you released the President's statement on Mansfield yet? Because\nwe have a statement from President Johnson now. Can we release that\nseparately?\nW: Yes. The only thing is that we have had a question on why the former\nPresident's were not included and were they approached. XXX Our guidance\nsaid that we did not approach them.\nK: Your guidance is that theyxka President Johnson has made a statement\nin support of President Nixon and here it is.\nRX W: Did we solicit it?\nK: Said we had not solicited it. Johnson was informed of the President's\nstatement and after thinking about it he decided to issue this one.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nWalt Rostow\nDr. Kissinger\n12:10 pm, May 15, 1971\nR:\nHenry, I have something that President Johnson dictated\nand then I have a comment on it from him. He dictated\nthe following statement: \"I have seen the President's\nproposed statement opposing at this time a unilateral\nreduction of military forces maintained in Europe for the\ncommon defense. I am totally in accord with that state- -\nment. (para) American steadiness in support of NATO\nfor more than twenty years has not only helped to bring\nsecurity and progress to the North Atlantic Community,\nit has also encouraged movement toward reconciliation\nwith those toward the East. Unilateral reduction of our\nmilitary forces in Europe would endanger what we have\nachieved in the past and shatter our hopes for the future. 11\nPresident Johnson ask me to tell President Nixon that he\nis free to use this statement in any way he judges useful.\nK:\nIs he going to release that statement or should we release\nit?\nR:\nI can only say that he said that President Nixon is free\nto use the statement in any way he judges useful. He\nadded that he made available to you yesterday his own re- -\nservations, that he wanted President Nixon to know he\nbelieves in this statement, that he would do anything to\nsupport the President and the country.\nK:\nWhat do you think - should we release it or should you?\nR:\nI can only tell you again what President Johnson told me.\nK:\nAlright Walt, thank you very much. You have been very\nhelpful.\nmlh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger\nMay 15, 1971 1:10 p.m.\njlj\nL: I am at Walter Reed. I am checking out tomorrow and will be back on full\nduty Monday. I wanted to talk to you about a couple of things. I think we should\ntalk about SALT. I think we should hardline on ABM because Russians will\nnever buy that and then get back into Safeguard like we want.\nlarge\nmissiles\nsomething below. If the Soviets position leaked out more and\nmore and we should try to position ourselves in the public that we have taken\na hardline and not go in with exchange on\nand MCA right away.\nK: There have been no decisions.\nL: I think they are never gxxxxixxx going for - you know. It gives us position\nthere - then reduction of large missiles. I think we should think about\nthis.\nK: I want to talk to you about whole SALT situation next week.\nL: I think we should Henry. There are a couple of things I think we should\ntalk about.\nK: How about breakfast on Tuesday? 8 or 8:30.\nL: Breakfast is fine - 8 is fine with me. There are a couple of propositions\nI want to talk to you about. Maybe I should warn you about them. Perhaps\nI should talk to the President on this Secretary of the Army thing before I\nleave for NATO. I think I ought to talk to the President. Get it squared away\nand go public with it on Friday.\nK: I think you should talk with him. OK Who do you have in mind?\nL: I think we should go on the Foky (phonetic) and then find another man to take\nintelligence and administration.\nK: Whom are you thinking about?\nL: I have a couple in mind but should not make this plan until we have moved\non the other. Another thing - I announced Resor's appointment and should he\nsign his letter to me or - right now it is drafted to me. I want to do this before\nI leave for the NATO Ministerial conference. The Nuclear Planning group\nmeets in Germany and Helmut Schmidt is our host. The Defense Planning\nCommittee is going to be talking about mutual and balanced force reductions\nin Lisbon and I will go on to that. We should get the maximum advantage we can.\nHelmut does not feel that his foreign minister is too strong and\nK: What's the recommendation?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nL: He wants to separate that out from the overall European Conference.\nWants to have it separate and not get tied up with that. I think we should\nthink about this and talk about it.\nX K: Let's discuss it at breakfast. I will get you an appointment with the\nPresident before you go.\nL: I want to talk to him about it a bit.\nK: Good. I think we probably ought to approve them.\nL: Let him hang on them. We just should not intervene. You know what\nI am talking about.\nK: I know what you are talking about.\nL: Thanks much Henry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger\nMay 15, 1971 1:25 p.m.\njlj\nR: Did you see the telegram to Brosio which would give\nK: Yes. President Johnson had Walt Rostow phone in a statement that\nsupports the President. You can't get much more than that between Johnson\nand Acheson.\nR: I talked to Mike. The President asked me to. He is OK about us but he\nis madder than hell at Acheson. He said that getting Acheson was like digging\nup Lazarath and we shouldn't get him involved in it. I said we had no idea that\nhe was going to use that word.\nK: Of course we didn't.\nR: He said that he knew that. I am getting Joe Fowler to write a piece for\nwrittxx which could counter the piece done by\nin today's\npaper. I have been trying to reach Kiley so that his testimony on Monday\nis consistent with what we want.\nK: I called him.\nR: What is he going to say about the balance of payments. If we could just\nagree on a figure.\nK: Are you going to New York on Monday.\nR: Yes, I have to. I tried to get out of it. But both Jarring and U Thant said\nthat they thought it should be followed up.\nK: The Administrative Assistants are running around the Hill with\nthank lower figures. 25-50,000 (This could have been 150, 000). R: I talked to\nBall this morning. He said he was having lunch with you. This is the problem.\nThe Senators he has talked to like Mike and do not want to take Mike on\nbecause they like him. But at the same time\nthey want to have something to take back to their people. Some of the younger guys :\nthinking about the lower figures but he is disassociated from it. 25-50,000\nreduced force levels. Also anywhere in the world.\nK: Humphrey tried that on me XXXX yesterday.\nR: I am not saying this because I know the Administration's view is hard and\nwe don't want to compromise at all, but if we have a 250, 000 cut contemplated\nanyway - this is according to my figures - couldn¹t we get along with a compromise\nthat allowed the troops anywhere in the world. MXX Mike wants an up or down vote\non his amendment. I do not think that it has a chance of becoming law. Mathias,\nJavits, Case all looking for a compromise position because they do not want to\ngo against Mike. Mike said he thinks we have the votes but he says he thinks\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nsomething\nwill\npass.\nXXXXXXXXXXX He said the President's position was all right with him but\nthat he wanted to keep the emphasis on this question.\nK: You and your associates have done a tremendous job on it.\nR: We would do more if we could get by with it and have it go down.\nK: It is basically a frivulous exercise. If it passes the President will just\nlose credit for that because as the proposed amendments - we are going to\ndo that.\nR: They are trying to use this as a face saving device. President planned to\ndo it long ago. Byrd is thinking isn't there something to do to soften the blow.\nXXX The Administration Assistant's are causing most of the trouble up there.\nI understand it is raining in Florida.\nK: Unfortunately, he is on the goddamn phone all day.\nR: When is he coming back? Tomorrow.\nK: I think he will because it is raining. He was thinking about Monday.\nR: Thanks Henry.\nSecretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger\n1:37 p.m.\nR: I forgot to tell you that Ball said on these discussions he is having that\nhe is having trouble to get somebody to vote for it. They are perfectly\nsatisfied to have it die in Committee. This would be a face saving device\nfor them.\nK: XXXXXXXXXX Why don't we try to see if we can hold out first.\nR: Oh yes. I am behind the Administration's position and the President has\nmade it plain that he would not compromise. But Ball was not for it but\nwanted us to know. I do not think that anything that passes will become law.\nK: I agree that we ought to put out the Brosio letter. I will get it down to\nZiegler.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nKen Clawson/Mr. Kissinger\nMay 15, 1971\n1:50 p.m.\njlj\nC: I just wanted to ask you if Truman was approached and if he refused to\ndiscuss it or what.\nK: To be very frank with you he is not very well and off the record we\nthought his physical condition as such we would not ask anything. XXXXXX\nXb6XXXXXX\nC: You did talk with President Johnson?\nK: I talked about the general situation with President Johnso n. We thought\non Truman that it would do him no good. To have Johnson is good. To have\nTruman would have been doubly so.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\nMay 15, 1971 2:03 p.m.\njlj\nP: I thought you should know I got a report that George Ball says that some\nof the young guys on the Hill were trying to work out some sort of compromise\nwith a figure of 25-50, 000 and making it anywhere in the world. I just thought\nthat Ball might be trying to get something out of this. Said something about\na force level reduction of 150, 000.\nK: Humphrey tried me on that yesterday.\nP: I cannot be in the position that they are dictating troop levels to me. They\nmust have really petrified those democrats. You know what the real game is\nhere.\nK: 150, 000 anywhere in the world. We would have to take from Europe. Don't\nhave them anywhere else.\nP: Unless you take Vietnam.\nK: That they want to exclude. 150, 000 from total forces that we might be\nable to do but this is just a cheap stunt.\nP: You should call Ball and tell him that we will not compromise on anxtyx anything.\nIn the questioning of Rogers year yesterday. Senate wants to have a heart (?).\nK: Same with ABM. When they do not have the votes they look for some sort\nof compromise.\nP: I do not want to have them force us to do something. I really think on this one\nwe should hard nose it.\nK: I think we should hard line it.\nP: No token cut and no matter for negotiation.\nK: I will call George Ball.\nP: We cannot let this Administration be told what to do or be put in a compromise\nsituation. It is sickening.\nK: Amazing the way they play with the national security.\n[Got off when Mr. Kissinger þuzzed for a secretary in the office. ]\nP:\nX\nLater in the week, people that cut our throat earlier will make them\nselves look really bad.\nK: Mitchell is on the Verification Panel and he was in today. I gave him a\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\npreview of what the situation was and he thought it was absolutely great.\nNot only politically.\nP: Yes?\nK: And here is a man who does not know about the subject. He thought\nit was terrific.\nP: The way to do this with the leaders. I am not going to show them the\ncorrespondence but just read the announcement to them and say that Moscow\ntime they are going to announce the same thing.\nK: They must not babble about claiming that we have too much too fast.\nP: I will knock that down hard. Just say it is a break in the negotiations.\nIt will take several months.\nK: I thought you might be interested in what Mitchell thought.\nP: Yes, I am.\nK: He said it was a substantive step forward and (b) a 10 pin strike. Just\nhopes we can keep it quiet until Thursday. Rogers may want to tell some\nof his staff but you should tell him State's head is riding on this.\nP: I will just tell him that we have an unbreakable commitment to the\nSoviets until 12 noon on Thursday. Rogers will be all right. I am\nconcerned about Smith.\nK: He will not leak it. He is going back to Europe and can's leak it.\nP: You must scare him. I don't now want to have it leak. And you should\nsee Dick Wilson and Bill White, the Alsops and get it out to them and what\na big step it is.\nK: Coming our way. That is why they are talking a compromise. There are\n8 uncertain but leaning our way.\nP: The current count is 43 now. That only gives us 51 -that is pretty damn\nclose. Has the Times hit it yet?\nK: Not but tomorrow.\nP: Reston hit it.\nK: yesterday.\n!P: Reston will understand it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 3 -\nK: He will. I will get my scientific people to slobber about it a bit.\nP: I want to do something thanking the Senators who voted for ABM.\nK: WX Except that we do not have the agreement yet.\nP: I know. But tell them that we could not have gone this far if they had\nnot voted with us. The total SALT agreement that people who say a they\nare for - are politically for it. But they are concerned that they are\nnot doing it and it is just as cold as that. OK Henry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/George Ball\nMay 15, 1971 2:12 p.m.\njlj\nK: The President is very concerned that you understand and with anyone\nthat you talk about between now and next week that he is not going to compromise.\nBill Rogers told him about 150, 000 around the world and he just doesn't\nwant to have the Congress able to put that kind of pressure on the Presidency.\nB: I understand. Purely practical notion and they are going to put something\nin, before they will vote against Mansfield.\nK: It is a basic point with him. He thinks it is bad public policy to seemingly\nbe forced into something that he is doing anyway. Or forced into doing\nsomething he would not do. It would totally confuse the issue.\nB: I see. I am clearer on it now. On my own estimate I do not think we have\nthe votes without xx at least giving these guys some sort of a compromise.\nMathias has been thinking about some sort of compromise.\nK: Another theirx thing that he said he would absolutely not have. Report to\nCongress every six months or year on troop withdrawals or levels around\nthe world. This is like having a gun to your head with negotiations to the\nRussians and (2) negotiations with the Europeans and needing some feeling ofj\nstability.\nB: We are both seeking the same objective. I have a fresher sense of what\nthe problem is. I have seen 22 democratic Senators since this thing started.\nK: We appreciate what you are doing.\nB: They have left themselves wiggle room on a compromise but have told the\npeople they would come back home with something. If I do not come up with\nsomething they can use I am confident they will come up with something themselves\nIf I stay independent and they work something out - the Administration's position\nmay be worse.\nK: President feels that we are torn enough with Vietnam. But there are some\nthings that he wants to show we are not split on and NATO is one of them.\nB: Choice of two things - simply say - look you are making a mistake and\nhold firm and get out of it.\nK: Why not take this position today and we can discuss it when we have lunch.\nHardline until Tuesday and after we have lunch we could see where we stand\nthen. If you agree with the arguments I made and hardline it and stick it out\nuntil Tuesday.\nB: That's fair enough. What I had hoped to do was work out something you\ncould accept.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified\n- 2 -\nK: Those guys would be happy to have an old hand like you take a look at it\neven as late as Tuesday.\nB: I will follow that line. You can tell the President. I will follow that\nline. I cannot sew up the Mansfield amendment doing it though. I had hoped\nI could.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSenator Stennis\n5/17/71 10:55 a. m.\nS: I'm just touching base with you on the substitute amendments.\nWe'll have to make some decisions on Wednesday. We've got the Mathias\nsubstitute and I understand there is going to be another and that Aiken is\ngoing to file one.\nK: I talked with the President this morning; he wants Mansfield voted\nup or down.\nS: That's what I want too.\nK: We don't want any substitute and if anyone tel ls you otherwise please\ncheck with me.\nS: I'll do it. I was opposed to that thing. I was talling to the group\nand they were talking about filibuster. Isaid we couldn't do that because\nof physical manpower. But I want to talk to you after this is over about\nbettering your position.\nK: We must talk. We are not vver-confident. But I believe that no\ncompromise is possible.\nS: It hink that this method, the way it came up and the drastic nature\nof it\nI don't favor a compromise wither.\nK: We want it voted up or down.\nS: Yes, but we've got to have a signal from the White House and\nthe manager of the bill.\nK: You think that is lacking now.\nS: No, but it's going to come to a head on Wednesday mooning.\nK: No matter what anyone tells you, unless I tell you that we are\ngoing with a compromise it doesn't have any standing.\nS: Okay, and the same applies from me to you. If these men would\njust withdraw their substitutes it would be helpful.\nK: But we've got a lot of egges involved here.\nS: Well, I'm going to have them studied out. It's premature to ask\nthem to withdraw their sutstitutes now; if that's going to be done we ought\nto do it Wednesday moming.\n[Sanitized version given to MacGregor attached. ]\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nWalt Rostow/Mr. Kissinger\nMay 17, 1971 11:25 a. m.\njlj\nK: Hello Walt.\nR: Good morning. How are you. How is your counter offensive\ncoming along.\nK: I think we are going to win.\nR: You are doing a very good job. The reason I am calling does not\ninvolve President Johnson. It is something the University of Texas has\ndeveloped here. The LBJ School is involved but other major people\nin social science, economics, etc. They asked me to go\nto a meeting of the bicenntenial committee last week in Dallas\nand make a presentation of this idea. It is how the State of Texas can\nbecome involved in the Bicentennial. The presentation was made to the\nCommittee which is headed by the President's appointment of X Mahoney.\nTexas has the idea of launching a 5 year program in education which would\ninvolve the universities and television and radio. Would be a general\neducation thing about looking back at 200 years of success and failure.\nStudy of how our democracy worked and its successes and failures\nand perhaps take a look at Texas in a less provincial way as one\nexample.\nserious way in engaging all the communities. Some of\nthem on the pro periferal have a feeling of being left out. Mahoney and\nthe Secretariat thought the idea was attractive and met the criteria\nthat President Nixon laid down on it. This is just the beginning of a plan.\nWe will have to raise money in Texas. It seemed barely possible that\nit might be something President Nixon wants to make reference to in\nhis remarks down here. Might want to make reference to this in a general\nway in addition to Penn State and Football. You know, 1976 is the\nBicentennial year and there are ideas generating all over the country\nand I understand that Texas has done this.\nK: Could you send me a paragraph or two on what you want him to say.\nR: Mahoney's man called down and they may be trying to work on something.\nBut this is only if President Nixon feels comfortable on it. Maybe I should\nsend you something and you can see what you think. That way it will not\nget lost.\nI think that is the best way to handle it.\nK:/ We really appreciated the President's statement on Saturday. We said\nto the press that we were really not expecting it. That is true because I\ntalked to President Johnson and he said he would not endorse it.\nR: Well, he had some major reservations about it but (a) if a President\nthinks he can help his nation he is going to do so. I am glad the net you\nregard it as useful.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nK: It was very useful.\nR: I was afraid it might be marginally useful but I am glad you\ncould use it my friend.\nK: Thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\nMay 17, 1971 11:30 a. m.\njlj\nP: We are all set now. I told Bob that I will see Bill Rogers at\n10:30 tomorrow. You are going to see Smith?\nK: I will see Smith at 11 a. m.\nP: Or You could see him almost at the sametime if you want.\nJust SO he is kept busy.\nK: I could see him at 10 a. m. It will take a long time.\nK:\nP: I think you should see him at 10 a. m. and keep him busy. / He needs\nto see you before he goes back to Vienna and he is leaving tomorrow.\nI would like to set up an appointment with you for him at 3 p.m.\nP: Sure, sure, sure. You can work that out.\nK: Perhaps with some members of his delegation.\nP: Are they all here?\nK: One or two of them are. They would not have to know. You could\njust meet briefly with them and have a press picture and send him off\nto Vienna.\nP: Get a picture for him. We will do that.\nK: We will have the scenario and everything ready for you when you\nget back tonight.\nP: Send it over to the Residence. I may come back and be there about\n7 tonight. I just talked to Coleson and he certainly is gettingxxx ginning up\na lot of support on Mansfield. We are going to win it now. Don't want\nto be too opptimistic though. The democrats were\nWhat about\nthe news magazines?\nK: Very respectfully. Talked of the leadership by you. They never give\nus the full break though. Treated it very respectfully. In my judgment\nthey gave too much of the arguments of the Mansfield people.\nP: Life didn't have an editorial?\nK: No. I think they close on Wednesday.\nP: Hell. They can get an editorial in if they want to. Oh well, thank you\nHenry.\nK: Good bye Mr. President\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nDr. Bator/Mr. Kissinger\nMay 17, 1971 11:35 a. m.\njlj\nK: I just wanted to call and thank you for all the help you gave us on\ntalking to people about the Mansfield Amendment. The help you gave\nus with George, etc.\nB: That's OK Henry. How is it going?\nK: I think we are going to win if the troops don't lose their nerve.\nB: Fixkx First let them go with their own amendments such as Mathias\nand others and then in a position to vote against Mansfield.\nK: They are all talking of amendments now. Before they lose they\nare trying to make it more and more acceptable in an amendment form.\nWe cannot have - The way it reads now the Senate would require a\nyearly report about progress in reducing our forces. We cannot have\nthat because of the insecurity of that type of situation.\nB: Who is talking to Mathias?\nK: Bowie (phonetic).\nB: That is good. I may talk to him today. I like Mathias.\nK: I like Mathias.\nB: I am sorry. I should have thought about Goldberg.\nK: Goldberg is on the other side.\nB: I know but I should have thought of him and talked to him. I caught\nAverell. He was OK but just hurt because he was not invited to the\nmeeting with the President.\nK: That is between him and the President. The President thought\nhe might start an argument.\nB: Should have taken the chance. He is worth more than George, McCloy\nand Acheson on this point with the Congress. I talked to Shay (phonetic)\nand he said he would talk to McGovern. I have been putting this very\nfrankly with the people I have talked to. I say there are other ways to\nput the squeeze on the White House and we don't need to do it this way.\nI talked to Schlesinger about this too. There are SO many people who\nbomb the White House but they do it irresponsibly. There is no need to\nbomb the whole world just to bomb the White House. Who is keeping the\ntally on this. Who will vote against it.\nK: Clark McGregor.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nB: Is he good?\nK: You know we got Hainseworth and Carswell through the Senate?\nB: I'm glad to know you still haven't lost your sense of humor. PXMXXXX\nXXXX KOOK XXXX XXXXX\nK: Dave Abshire over at XMXXXX State has a pretty good feel for it.\nB: I will talk to Teddy. I don't know where he is. One problem is\nthere are an awfully lot of people who do not want to go against Mansfield\non a personal basis. One idea I had is that you should have NBC (? ) get\nan interview with Brandt and thatx make sure that he is prepped and uses\nthe same arguments that we have been using and does not hold to\nGoes into things like Ostpolitik, evolution of the monetary system and\netc. You know the kinds of arguments to which my clientele would be\nsympathetic with. I am sorry Henry. You wanted to thank me and you\nare getting a lecture. You know if you go up and talk to the people that\nare difficult and on the borderline it might help.\nK: I think it is better for me to keep a low profile these days in the Senate.\nB: Do you have Connally and Vokar working on this and explaining what the\nGermans did last week?\nK: Connally is working on it but Vokar is on the other side.\nB: He believes in a set monetary system. That is David Rockefeller\nand\n's influence on thexaxx him. That is too bad.\nK: Francis, do you ever come down here?\nB: I never had business there. I get to New York. I would like to meet\nwith you anytime. My view about people who have your job, people who\ncall from outside willx wilkx are a bloody nuisance. xx I hope after aur last\nmeeting that you know our disagreement on that issue was not a dekx\ndeclaration of war and had nothing to do with Harvard.\nK: I know. I did not take it personally.\nB: I was troubled that you thought so and that I never got an answer from\nyou.\nK: That is a bureaucratic snafu. Let's plan to get together in the next\nfew weeks. I would like to see you.\nB: I will be in Cambridge all summer essentially.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified."
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