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DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT] DOCUMENT DOCUMENT NUMBER TYPE SUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS DATE RESTRICTION I Tel Con Mrs. Mosbacher / Henry Kissinger 4/12/72 D (2 pgs.) 2 Tel TelCon Con Mrs. Mosbacher/ Henry Kissinger 4/19/72 G (1 pg.) FILE GROUP TITLE BOX NUMBER Kissinger Transcripts - Telephone Conversations 13 FOLDER TITLE 12-19 Apr. 1972 10 RESTRICTION CODES A. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy. E. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or B. National security classified information. financial information. C. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's F. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law rights. enforcement purposes. D. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy G. Withdrawn and return private and personal material. or a libel of a living person. H. Withdrawn and returned non-historical material. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION 0:1989-235-084/00024 This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. NA 14021 (4-85) TELCON Laird/Kissinger (Secure Phone) 9:40 a.m. - 4/12/72 L: Hello. K: Mel, how are you? L: Very good. How did your briefing go? K: It went all right. The President got a little carried at the end there. L: Did he? K: Yes. I am going to talk to Scott and Ford and have them slow them down again. He made it into a bigtest with the Soviets and so forth. L: We have got to be careful about that. K: On the B-52 thing - that is going this afternoon? L: Right. You know that strike on Binh - our recognaissance the miscued radar show they hit on target. This is doing it through the clouds. The maps must be off in calibration almost a mile - one kilometer. K: In other words, they didn't hit anything. L: They hit but not that target. They were off one kilometer. The problem with that is I have got to go up and take care of it. The fact the Strategic Air Command is concerned that the radios check out perfectly with the 300 feet of . Now there must be something wrong with the chart. K: What point are you making? L: The point is they showed the charts were off one kilometer for bombing by B - 52's. K: All over South Vietnam? L: That may be. They are checking it out. In South Vietnam there is no problem, but in North Vietnam they will be off by as much as a kilometer. This is serious when it comes to hitting civilians with OBU's which they are doing. Last night at 1:00 a.m. I got a call. They were going to take the airfield but the villages I didn't think they should hit them before it's checked out. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. - 2 - K: Well, I don't know if the airfield is worth it. L: I think it is. K: How long is it going to take them to check it out? I don't know if we can fight a war with this military establishment. We are not interested in an airfield; we are interested in a bigger strike. I think we ought to call it off. We can't afford to horse around. It's got to be massive. L: This will be a massive strike. K: If the Air Force wants to fight their own war let them do it, but we want to bring this war to an end. L: The weather is clearing up now, but Henry you have to make sure your calibration on the chart is correct. K: Well, I'm going to the President on this. I am just wondering if we should call the other strike back. I'll check with the President and call you back in 10 minutes. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON President 4/12/72 3:10pm P: With the Chinese I think you probably ought to no need to play too hard a game with them on the rhetoric side, do you think? Say we understand but please, as the President said to the Prime Minister Chou, anything we do here is not directed against you. We wouldn¹t want them to say Mansfield and Scott shouldn't come or something like that. K: No, Mr. President, I think exactly that's the right course to take and that's what I planned to do. P: Also give them the idea we are playing them against the Russians. Have you got any ideas on that? K: Tell them the same principle is involved here as in the India-Pakistan thing. P: We are not getting along well with the Russians; say the President has indicated that to the Russians, and so told the legislators. Say we are not putting any pressure on them. Are you going to call Dobrynin and say we will consider the trip to Mr. Grezhnev? If you are foing for this purpose anyway, we can say this is the major concern. Incidentally, did any strike get off? K: They are going off now Mr. President. P: At 2:30 today. I wonder when I will have a chance to see Haig. K: Tomorrow Mr. President I have a call soming in from Dobrynin now. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON The President 4/12/72 3:22pm K: I wanted to give the word to Dobrynin. He said it's the most cheerful news he had all day. I didn't even say you had agreed, just you were a considering it. He said he will pass it to Moscow right away. P: I feel you ought to go, not only to discuss this but the Summit. Was he happy K: He was slobbering. Brezhnev say the Hanoi Ambassador today and made a statement of support. I showed this to my Europe man who doesn't know what the hell is going on and said what do you think. He said if we made a that statement like that about an ally he would conclude we were getting ready to dcrew him, and he knows nothing. P: That's why we must keep the Russian thing in in Canada. Don't you think? K: Yes. P: Okay, you go up to New York. Is the weather improving any? K: Yes. P: XXX You will be back from New York by I won't get a chance to see Haig. I'm staying up there until noon. You want Haig to see me there or you and I see him together? Or maybe he doesn't need to, good God, I guess he knows. K: He knows your thinking. P: How about my taking him with me up to Camp David, seeing him there for an hour and then sending him back? Tell him to go with me at 4:30 and come back about 7:30. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS PROJECT DOCUMENT CONTROL RECORD ITEM REMOVED FROM THIS FILE FOLDER A RESTRICTED DOCUMENT OR CASE FILE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THIS FILE FOLDER. FOR A DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEM REMOVED AND THE REASON FOR ITS REMOVAL, CONSULT DOCUMENT ENTRY NUMBER ON EITHER THE DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD (GSA FORM 7279 OR NA FORM 1421) OR NARA WITHDRAWAL SHEET (GSA FORM 7122) LOCATED IN THE FRONT OF THIS FILE FOLDER. A sanitized copy substituted for an original item which contains information restricted under the Privacy Act. NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION NLN Form 101 (revised 6-85) Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Adm. Moorer/Mr. Kissinger 7:00 p.m. 4/12/72 HAK: I wanted to check with you to make sure you are going to start to move up to the 18th parallel. the President wanted that. AM: I think they are already moving up there he will get it. HAK: We are stepping this thing up. Attacks by air strike as soon as possible in the combat zone. ADM: I understand that aircraft have been sitting by every day. HAK: How is the weather? ADM: The weather is still--just got a report; they are calling for 3, 000 ft. overcast, occasionally broken in the afternoon, rain, fog and drizzel tonight and some decrease in clouds in 36 hours. We will really rock them then. HAK: This bombing will have to stop soon anyway. We are concentrated in the area of the 18th? ADM: You can rest assure that they will go--we have 100 sortees HAK: You understand that the President said south of the 18th if you need it. ADM: I have sent out message on 52's strike. I told them in the first place that we authorize a TOT of the 12/20/10 zulu and I said to hit the air field and logistics target and in the end to let me know what was hit. HAK: And a minimum of civilian casualties. ADM: Yes. And I said advise me when aircraft is clear of the area. I gave storage area at Som and power plant is their option (one other target was mentioned). I think they will distribute the aircraft 9 66 3--we authorized three, directed to hit at least two and three if it fits into their tactics. HAK: No civilian casualties if possible. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Haldeman/Kissinger 12:50 a.m. - 4/13/72 H: This is Bob. I just got a report from Chuck on the Staff Meeting this morning that there not be any response on attacks. K: I didn't say that. I said they should check their responses with us and give us a chance to put it in a bigger context. H: Well, he read it that they should do nothing. All I wanted to say is that is counter to the President's view. He is very anxious we lo ck Kennedy and Humphrey into the position they are in in opposition to us. K: In view of that one factor I mentioned we have to recognize that that was the correct The only thing I asked for was I asked Chuck to check any replies with us before they are made and I think if we can make it through a week before an uproar we will know exactly where the cards lie. We will have so many cards we can string on them. H: The point is you have got a positive thing here. There are only two people who will be the Democratic candidate for President - Kennedy or Humphrey. Both are way out on a limb - Kennedy for what he stands and Humphrey for backing him up. The President wants to make sure we establish them on that limb. K: My concern, Bob, is that given the situation we now face where we really may break this thing wide open I think the less screaming now the better off we are. The President's strategy was 100% correct as long as we relied on the outcome of the battle. But if anything happens here Humphrey loses the whole We will know by the 24th where the cards lie. H: Then you don't want no response? K: No, no, I said I would not start an all-out attack on them. H: OK. K: That would be my distinction. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Sec. Connally/Kissinger 9:45 a.m. - 4/13/72 K: Mr. Secretary. C: Yes sir, Henry. K: I called you the other day - they scheduled a Senior Review Group meeting on my calendar and showed it as Chile which I thought was foreign policy. Then they go into the details of C: Yes, I know. K: I want you to know if I have something to say to you on negotiations I don't call meetings of low-level people, I would call you. I am sorry that came about. I closed off the meeting when I realized what was coming up. C: I appreciate that Henry. Thank you for calling. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Rogers/Kissinger 11:20 a.m. - 4/13/72 R: Hello. K: Bill. R: Hi, Henry. K: I really didn't have anything I wanted to tell you except that the way everyone is pulling together on this Vietnam thing is superb. R: I think it's worked out fine. K: And the load McCloskey is doing is spectacular. R: We have another press conference on support assistance on Monday and they will be asking us about Vietnam. I am trying to get a postponement on it but about the best way is to be out of town. So, if the President could think of some place to send me on Monday. K: Like where? R: If you have any bright ideas, let me ow. K: OK. R: We don't want to be to obvious. K: What could be done at the UN for example. R: Let me think. K: The posture we would like to maintain for a week or so is somewhat one of serious determination. R: Well, if I have to testify I will follow the line. K: I know you will. The President was thinking of giving a speech but he has cancelled that. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. - 2 - R: For example on negotiations you can't be totally clear and if you are totally adamant it sounds like you are giving up all hope. We don't want to give up all hope because it weakens our position. K: Right. R: I know you aren't involved in this but Peter Flanigan's request on the representation of John Connally. K: I frankly don't know anything about that. R: We have got to get everybody playing on the team. He just disregarded the rest of the White House. K: I have had that problem. But I want to thank you Bill. R: I think the OAS matter has gone pretty well. K: I had that impression. R: I had a very good day with them yesterday. The Chilean said he agreed very much with what I said and he complimented you. K: Isn't that interesting. R: And the press coverage has been good. K: First time we have had any press coverage from the OAS. R: Yes, OK, I will see you later in the day. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Moorer/Kissinger 11:50 a.m. - 4/13/72 K: Tom, I have been talking to the President. He would appreciate it if you would send a message to Abrams making it clear Haig is coming with full Presidential authority. He is to be given full cooperation and he carries personal instructions from the President. M: Absolutely. I have already given him his itinerary and I will pass this along too. K: And anything else you need to get into Abrams head the party is over. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Peter Flanigan 4/13/72 1:55pm F: I talked to Palmby and he is I told him what to do in the future. P is coming back on Saturday. K: They are to keep quiet at all costs. F: But he will be asked how do prospects look. I think he should be as pessimistic as possible. K: He should say it is very tough. F: I said if you say anything with respect to Brezhnev you should be very cool. With regard to anything they ask x us you have to tell us what they would want and certainly not link gas and oil, which is a mistake and I said I am unhappy about the CLC financing for which he was sorry. K: We could get a Presidential direction. F: No, I can handle it I can get a strong directive out to him. K: Okay. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Laird/Kissinger (Secure Phone) 1:45;p.m. - 4/13/72 K: Hello. L: Hello, Henry, how are you? K: Fine. You been in trouble lately? L: Not too much. I am in trouble trying to get my books balanced over here. K: What's your problem? L: I may need some help. We are already over $300 million and that is somewhat of a problem. When are you coming back? K: Saturday noon. L: Saturday noon. OK, and you are leaving tonight. When you get back let's go into that. K: All right, but can we keep that concern between you and me for the time being. I don't want any news stories. L: Well, there probably will be as far as the Hill is concerned. They are asking all kinds of questions and some of their figures are close. K: Where do they get them? L: They get the deployment and the sorties and multiply them out. K: Mel, let's hold the line on this for a week. L: I'll try. K: It's essential. L: The other thing is Bill talked to me about the B-52s and I briefed him as much as I 8 ould. I told him they are It would have a political impact, I am sure and then he wanted to know when we would be going again and I told them we think it will be approved by the President but perhaps not until this weekend, if we did go again. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. - 2 - K: Right. L: I think I do have some approvals over here but if he brings that question, how will you answer it? K: Exactly the same way you did - that there is no actual approval. L: Very good, If you stay with that position, OK. K: You can be sure of it. L: I don't want you to pull the rug out from under me because Tom and Ken have the idea it is approved. K: Well, that's not final because I have to check with the President. L: Well, that's what I thought. That's why I put it to Bill that way. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON The President 4/13/72 2:00pm P: Are you freeto come over now? K: I have Henry Brandon with me, but I could be free. P: No, I will have Haldeman come over now and you come in half an hour. K: No, much less than that because I have some things that I think you wou 1d be interested in. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Adm. Moorer 4/13/72 3:40 p.m. K: I talked to the President and the thing we discussed this morning is authorized. M: I am moving right out on it. K: Either Saturday or Sunday. M: All right, it's fine. K: Earlier the better from our point of view. M: It's a rather complex thing. Got pl a ns but going to let them say how & best to dovetail it. K: But sks if it's later than Sunday we may have to cancel it. M: You mean later than Sunday night? K: Yes. M: It won't be later than Sunday night. K: We must know the TOT with threxonx some advance warning to some other things. M: I can give you that, no problem. K: When. M: Tomorrow. K: You will let Haig know? M: Yes, I will. I can guess it now but I want to confirm it. K: What's your guess? M: Talking about local time. First go will either be 3:00 Saturday or Sunday Washington time. K: We have no great preference whether it's Saturday or Sunday. Can make arguments either way. M: We'll base it on whether it's efficient. K: That's right. I can see some slight advantage to doing it Sunday Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Moorer 4/13/72 3:40 p.m. but above all, do it when it's right. M: Okay. K: Good. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Secretary Laird (Secure Voice) 4/13/72 4:30pm L: I wanted to make sure that it was all right -- everything is go. K: Everything is go, and we want it over the weekend. As soon as you know definitely will you let me know. L: We'll go Saturday. That's the way it's tentatively set, but there must be some way to get in touch securely/ in Candaa. K: Probably not. LS: I can do it indirectly. K: Just say your visitor is coming on Saturday. L: Good. K: And I suppose domestically it doesn't matter when. L: No, because it would be in the Sunday papers probably. K: Then isn't it better to do it Sunday? L: No, let's go when we should. K: That's right. Whenever the xammandess commander says. L: I think we will go on tac air if there's a chance of a lot of people K: Absolutely. That POL thing I sort of liked, but I don't care who hits it but if we could get it with the others it might not be a bad idea. L: We will be very careful. K: Okay, and after that we will get off your back. Okay? L: You're not on my back. It's not that. I don't want you to thin, that*s that this is going to win the war. K: It may turn out we know what we are doing. Have faithexx faith. L: I have faith, but the Vietnamese are doing well. K: That's a tribute to you. I think Vietnamization is working and the reason is because it is working, and the only chance of its working politically is in the south. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Laird (Secure Voice) 4/13/72 4:30pm p. 2 L: in the south impresses the North more than anything we can do. K: I agree with you and there is no disagreement nor inconsistency in it. L: I think I understand. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Howard Stein 4/13/72 4:47 pm S: Request from people on the Street if you would speak to the bond club any time in April or May. K: What is that? S: Finance people, bond people primarily. K: Do you recommend it? S: Yes, I think it would be good if you had time. Firms of financial people. K: In principle my philosophy is if someone I respect as much as you recommends something I would do it. April is probably out; it would have to be in May. What is it, lunch or dinner? S: I think dinner would be better. K: I will give you a few dates. Do you ever come through here? S: Yes, sometimes. K: Please let me know when you do. Should I let your office know the dates? S: Yes, you just let them know and we'll try to set it up. K: Good. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TelCon:4:55-4/13/72 Mr. Kissinger/ Dave Kraslow DK: Hello Henry. K: I am running off to Canada. I just wanted you to know we will give you as much information as we can. DK: I know, I am giving your people a hard time. K: You know if I didn't take you serious I wouldn't call you. DK: In the context of the message It could not have reached Hanoi until the invasion was well underway and the battle was going on full blast. K: No, what about the III Region. DK: You mean that occurred after? K: Well after DK: It was kind of you to call. K: You remember my assessment of the situation on April 1. This was not an attempt to head off the attack. It was simply to inform them we would be willing to resume the talks DK: Is that all the message contained? K: Well it pointed out that the conditions would remain the same but I don't want to get into the message. DK: Is it alright for me to say the President would react strongly if the enemy went ahead with a large invasion. K: No, I wouldn't say that. Dave I am being called to the helicopter. I just wanted to call you. DK: I hope your understand my motives Henry. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Secretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger 4/15/72 11:50 HAK: I saw the cable from Abrams saying the risks were toogreat for this strike and under these conditions the President can't go through with it. ML: We can't callif off now, Henry do you want me to ? HAK: We will be struck in Region 3. (from the cable) ML: We had a similar cable that you knew about yesterday. HAK: You said that by scaling down the effort you would have him aboard. ML: He is going to do it. HAK: I want two names to replace Abrams- who should replace Abrams? ML: As far as I think--Fred Wyan and I will give you the other later-- it will be a mistake, though Henry. HAK: I will check again with the President to make sure he doesn't want to go ahead. Hold off for 10 minutes and I will talk to him. ML: As far as going to go, this is the time to go, but if you want, it will be called off. HAK: What is this, the Field Commander should do as the Commander in Chief says. What about the news stories? ML: I don't know where that came from--probably from-- I don't know. It came out in the New York Times under Beacher's name. I have an investigation going on now on people talking about 52's in this building and I have shut them off. HAK: In every crisis, the President is left by his people. ML: Not by me, Henry. I think that story is Frankle, Beacher and the whole NYTimes staff in town. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Secretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger 4/15/72 11:50 a.m. Page 2 HAK: I will be back to you in 15 minutes. ML: We are going at 3 o'clock. HAK: Well, it is a heavy responsibility to overrule his Commander. ML: will explain this to Abrams the best he can. Abrams wants to use the assets in the battle and he thinks that going now doesn't affect the battle for six months. HAK: He will blame us for his failures. ML: This won't cause a failure. HAK: How is AnLoc-- ML: They are doing well at An Loc--We have the briefers over there for you now, you know HAK: Yes. You said by scaling down, everyone will be happy ML: I didn't say that Henry. Henry that is the position historically of the Commanders not to use his assets in battle. TELCON 12:05 Secretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger ML: These assets have been stood down anyway. HAK: We have gone through too many crises that people have stuck the White House with. ML: I will go out in front if you want me to. HAK: I will talk to the President first. ML: We have stood down the assets. For the next 7 hours you can't put them on the line anway. HAK: I will call you back. -- He is extremely displeased. about McVee. MACV Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Melvin Laird/Mr. Kissinger Page 3 ML: You shouldn't pay any attention to MeVee MACV HAK: Well, I was told that they would be adjusting the program to meet the objections. ML: The objections have been met. HAK: I will call you back TELCON Melvin Laird/Mr. Kissinger 12:15 p.m. 4/15/72 HAK: I have talk with him and he says you might as well go ahead since you can't use the assets anyway. ML: That is absolutely the right decision. I wish before the people showed the President these cables on Bunker, etc., to talk tome. You can tell the President that the Secretary of Defense has gone wild--I will take the heat. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Secretary Rogers 4/15/72 1:52pm R: What I wanted to talk about I wanted to be sure we don't have our signals crossed and to be sure I know everything going on so I don't get into a Cambodia situation. Do you remember the date ? K: Yes, April 1 the message was sent from here and April 2 it was delivered. R: And what's the answer to the question K: Because Porter was here. R: When we say "private sources¹¹ what do we mean? K: Our Military Attache there, but we don't want to say that. R: No. K: And he gives it to their man. R: And why do we say that's private? K: That's the wrong word to use -- "non-delegation sources. 11 R: But Moorer said "private" didn't he? K: Mes. R: I think I will be questioned about that. K: I will I don't have the text here now, but I can get it over to you by tomorrow. R: Okay, do that. I would appreciate it. K: I will give you the as exact text so you will know what the situation is. The President was working last night and he is working now on something he will send to you and Mel to make sure both of you follow the same line. It was two or three pages the last time I saw it, but he is still scribbling it. R: Is anything about the to happen I don't want to be in a position K: Mel told you what's happening today he was supposed to. R: He is going to come to see me; we don't ha ve to talk on the phone about it. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Secretary Rogers 4/15/72 1:52pm p. 2 K: But that is a one-shot affair. But the President is bloodily determined and wants to keep an ominous set of options open, including blockade. R: What do you think about the SALT talks discontinuance? K: I don't think that's connected. R: Any reason to think the signals we are giving the world and the Russians have any effect? K: Not yet. R: Did you convey something to Dobrynin on it? K: No, I have not conveyed anything. R: Did you see him last week? K: I saw him for an odd thing. He wanted to see my films on China and he saw one of them, but my parents were here. He came over -- it was before the Gridiron thing. It was for all intents andpu purposes social. R: But no discussion about this thing. K: No. R: The doees will use this occasion to hit us hard. I'm not concerned, but I want to be sure we all say the same thing. K: I won't say anything. I won't see press and I will keep you fully informed of anything here. R: Okay, well fine Henry. Thank you. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON President/Mr. Kissinger 4/15/72 2:10 p.m. RN: I think that Dobrynin may be deliberately away. HAK: No we checked and he thought I wasn't coming back until 6 o'clock. RN: I don't want them to be playing games with me. HAK: Right, Mr. President. RN: One other thing--Call Laird and say that while he is talking with Rogers to strongly urge him not to undercut Laird on this -- and say that I am most grateful for his support - throw a little crap. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Secretary Laird 4/15/72 3:00pm L: You looking for me? K: I was calling you at the request of the President. L: I went out to brief Bill Rogers. K: He wanted to make sure you understood that he is writing a memorandum to both of you about your testimony next week which supports you, and he wants you to hard-line it. L: I would like to. K: That's what he wants. We have nothing to lose now by being ferocious. L: I have got to talk to you. We have got to keep calm. I can't go 15 different directions. K: You're not. No one is asking you to. We want you to go the direction the President wants. L: That's what I thought I was doing until I got that call from you at noon. K: We got a bleeding message from Abe and .the Chairman L: The Chairman has nothing to do with you; you knew Abe's position all along. K: What was Bill's reaction to your beiefing? L: He asked a few questions. Everything is fine, no problem on that. He was okay. He wanted to know whether it could be spared and I said it could. K: Will you let me know when it's done, or under way? L: They/aIready are there with some now. In five minutes you will have more. Then it follows up with other stuff. K: Right. L: We got to keep calm around here. I think I am following the President's instructions then I get a call like that one atnd it screws it up. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Secretary Laird 4/15/72 3:00pm p. 2 K: The President's point of view is he hasn't gotten it into Abe's head what he wants. L: He wants Abe's assessment, doesn't he? K: Yes, but L: He got that ed out yesterday but can I tell him? K: I thought when you scaled it down he went along with it. L: I will talk to you about it some time. K: Are you going to be there in the morning? L: Yes, are you going to be there tonight? K: No. You want to have breakfast like we did last week? L K: Yes. K: You, Rush, Moorer and I can meet at 8:15, or is that too early? L: No, that's fine. K: I will come over there then. We can review where we stand. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Admiral Moorer/Dr. Kissinger 3:10 p.m. 4/15/72 HAK: I can tell you when I showed Abrams message to the President he almost went into orbit. AM: I thought he should see it. He has got 364 tac air. HAK: The President wants Abrams to know that this is how much he had two weeks ago. AM: And he has 45 B-52's and 150 sortees will not lose the war-- he has had 3800 (?) already to win it. I didn't concern myself with this message 'cause we were not laying on a back tac air strike up there and no flare up. HAK: How is An Loc? AM: There is no large hand-to-hand combat. I think they have backed of a little bit--they are softening the thing up before making anouther ground effort. They will have a lot of air fighting. Actually they will be there only 12 hours if the weather permits Tac Air going in. HAK: How does the weather look. AM: 50/50. There is fog and drizzle--helps us with the 52's, but not the others. The first phase of the strike which is over now, I guess, --the conditions are fine for that. HAK: Would it have been better tomorrow? AM: No, we gave them a choice--Abrams said tomorrow, and then changed his mind. He had the choice of today or tomorrow. He had every consideration. I told him if the weather was not suitable, they could work in package . HAK: I bet that is what he is going to do. AM: No, I am talking about McCain. Abrams does not have ordering for this operation. Tac air was going 8:30 tonight--they have only 150 air craft and these could be in in 1/2 day. HAK: How many targets? AM: They have eight or 10 targets--good targets and they are concentrated in Haiphong. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. Adm. Moorer/Dr. Kissinger Page 2 AM: The operation is well planned -- and don't worry about what Abrams said in the message- it never occurred to me to cancell on the basis of that cable. HAK: Really? Maybe I just over-reacted. AM: He recommended slipping it a week when you were in Canada. I found out about that 2:00 that night. I said continue operations and he would use for the immediate ground battle. We were giving 200 tac airs and 36 B-52's - now they have 356 Tac airs and 45 B-52's. So there was no significant degradation of his capability when you get down to it. HAK: How does the military situation look to you? AM: Generally, as I expected these initiatives moved forward in number one Region--positions in Guay just partially committed. Not much has happened in Region they are working on that road. Don't worry about the logistics we can take care of them through . North Vietnamese have come to the conclusion that the most likely success is at Than Luc and this is where all there effort is. They have pulled in part 9 and now part 7. They have taken all airborne brigades in there. That air lift was done by the South Vietnamese themselves. I think they are on top of it. There will be some real heavy battle there. They are suffering some real severe casualties. HAK: (Asks about person name inaudible) AM: He wants to move out to the highland and turn out to the east, north of the river. San Whey and other operations you asked for. Went up to the Haiphong harbor and turned around and came back. They are working on the whole area. They think the 121st Division (?) will go by rail then roads because of the harrassament by the destroyers. The North Vietnamese are putting maximum effort into this. HAK: I suggested we all have breakfast again tomorrow with Laird in his office. Those pictures were interesting. AM: The drone photos were not good. HAK: I hope they get the tac air up there today. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Adm. Moorer/Mr. Kissinger Page 3 AM: They will do their best. The weather tomorrow will be about the same as today. HAK: Then, it wouldn't have made any difference. AM: They will do the best they can. HAK: When are you getting other destroyers in there. AM: Let me give you a table in the morning-- - HAK: And any other reinforcements you can get for the President. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Admiral Moorer/Mr. Kissinger 3:25 p.m. 4/15/72 AM: The B-52's are all heading home. The big planes got in there and cleared it out and the A 6's helped them on instrument too. They are home free. HAK: How many did we fly? AM: 18 with 1200 bombs--targets were storage targets--the aircraft are out safely. HAK: How many A 6's? AM: 14--- HAK: They didn't got after the storage tanks? AM: They were disrupting the missiles. They went after some of the trucks - - that is open storage. HAK: Good. AM: The others will go at 8:30 weather permitting--otherwise before dawn. No losses. HAK: Delighted. AM: There can't be any propaganda claims--they got the message with 1200 bombs--about 66 bombs in each airplane. HAK: How many were the F-4's carrying? AM: About 12--the F 4's are more accurate. HAK: Congratulations. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Joe Johnson/Mr. Kissinger 4:00 p.m. 4/15/72 JJ: Henry, I understand why we are going to miss you. HAK: The North Vietnamese boil things upÞeavily in April. JJ: The people who are coming from Washington will be Zumwalt Brimmer--Senator Mathias, a Representative (doesn't mention) and Brock pulled out. Can you give Zumwalt some sense of what this is like and what should be said? HAK: Good idea. JJ: On the economic side, you may want to talk to Brimmer - -maybe not. Bob Shetzel (sp?) will be there so you may want to mention something to Bob--both of those would be most helpful if you could talk to them. What about the Bangladesh and Palastinians? HAK: I think we are coming along well. JJ: What are you using us for? HAK: I have been preoccupied with Southeast Asia. We are acting in a humanitarian manner. JJ: I am a member of a committee set up by you and we are to be used a little by you--Maury and I wondered what the future would be. HAK: Let me think on it. I am sorry to have to miss you. JJ: Please send word that you have talked to Zumwalt and Schaetzel. HAK: You can count on me contacting Zummwalt. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Laird 4/15/72 4:00pm L: We are sending reports from time to time -- you're getting them, aren't you? K: Yes, it seems to be going very well. L: Dan is staying there; he will get in touch with your people and let them know from time to time. K: There won't be anything now until 8:30, right? L: Right. K: Good. L: Very good, thank you. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Admiral Moorer/Mr. Kissinger 4/15/72 4:50 p.m. HAK: One question I have with respect to shelling in Haiphong-- you can't hit Haiphong with your ships without danger. Can you shell the harber entrances. AM: Oh, hell yes. HAK: Can you get that done tonight. AM: It is beginning to be day. I can have them shell that point--day light or night. HAK: Doesn't matter- at night for all I care AM: When. HAK: I think I would like it all together so that they will get a firm message. AM: Should the weather preclude the one, do it anyway? HAK: Yes. What do you think: That would be a good warning that we might want to come in there. You will, now, make every effort to get Tac air in there? AM: Yes. The only thing that might stop it, (doesn't mention what, but probably weather) because we want results from this. When we get our daylight report, we'll know. I am coming here at 7:30 tonight to take a look at the report. HAK: Tell Laird the President wants that done during the tac air operation and I will call him too. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Secretary Laird 4/15/72 4:53 p.m. K: One other thing the President wanted done and wanted me to call Moorer. It's not major but while the tac air is going on he wants shells dropped on a few ships in fortifications in the estuary. L: You mean up there by Haiphong? K: Yes, where the thing juts out. XL: Against the fortifications? K: It doesn't have to be at the exact time, but in the Same 24-hour period. L: This will be over in seven or eight hours. K: Good, you can have 24 hours for it. L: This can be done. We'll get at that All right. K: All right? L: Yes, let me get at that, all right. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Secretary Laird 4/15/72 6:10pm L: That's on its way. K: Oh, the other? L: Yes. K: The last thing I talked to you? L: Yes. K: I understand. L: I got it's gone same thing that went last night -- same group. K: Right, but this time it will do something. L: Yes. K: But still don't know about the second wave. L: No, but they are continuing to attack. K: They haven't started yet, have they? L: A-6 started to attack and they are out. But Henry we have got to make plans and then stick with them. I am daingxx willing to send any kind of signals anyplace, but I think things get panicky. K: No, no one is panicky. Just having been through a lot of crises where everyone turns around afterward and says that wean't what I wanted. L: That's not the case as far as I am concerned and I resent that and I K: No, not you, it was Abrams running around and saying things like that. L: Abe doesn't run around and say things like that either and I resent that too. K: That's your privilege. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Secretary Laird 4/15/72 6:10 p.m. p. 2 L: That is my privilege I'll talk to you about it in the morning. He knew how his field commander started and Al knew that xx too. And if the President didn't know it's because you weren't briefing him properly. He knew that all ålong. K: he suffered from the misapprehension that L: We were told by that group that came back over that the Commander-in-Chief made the decision and that takes precedence K: What group? L: Tom and Ken. K: Right, but then the thought was then that the scaling down had brought everybody aboard. L: Who told you that? I didn't tell you that. K: It must have been a misinterpretation of what you told me when I was in Canada. L: I didn't tell you that. I just said things were go. I am not going to talk about things like that on the open phone anyway. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON The President 4/15/72 6:15pm P: Have you adequately informed the Chinese of this? K: No, not yet. P: You planning to? K: Tomorrow. P: After the strike. K: Yes. P: How? K: Send somebody up there. P: That's a little late, isn't it? K: Well, we just couldn't get to them today. If we do it first thing in the morning P: Why don't you let them know you want someone to come up? K: Right, I will call them immediately. P: They may squawk; they may knock off Mansfield and Scott. K: I doubt that, I seriously doubt that. P: You do? K: Yes. P: Yeah, I do too. But I think they ought to know. K: Okay. Just to let you know, Laird is yelling and screaming about the tough line wewere taking at noon and about everybody panicking. and about knocking off the commander. He is blaming me about it so there is no problem. P: Isn't that a switch. How were we to know it didn't come from him? It came from Defense, didn't it? K: No, it came from Abe. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON The President 4/15/72 6:15 pm p, 2 P: But when the message came over did he indicate any dissent? K: No, we got a copy from Moorer. P: That's my point. Why did they send it? K: We asked him to let us have all copies. P: I see. I don't care. He wants to be the tough man now? K: And he claims we are bugging him too much. B: He agreed to do all the things? K: Yes, they are being done. P: And the naval thing will be pulled off too? K: That's on the way. P: All right. Well, that one and this one and when do you expect to hear from the Russians? K: Monday. P: Monday? K: Right. P: Okay. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Vorontsov/Kissinger 11:40 a.m. - 4/16/72 V: He is walking outside the Embassy but he will be back by 1:00 o'clock. K: He ought to be in good condition. V: I hope so. K: I have three things. We would appreciate it if you would send the text over of what the Ambassador read to me and could you deliver this to Colonel Kennedy. He is sitting in Haig's office. V: I will do that. K: Second, I wanted to confirm what I told the Ambassador last night, and what I also told you, that this operation is now completed. V: I see. That's good. K: And the assurance I gave is now in effect until we get a reply from the other side. V: Good. K: And finally just as he advised me yesterday about our actions - I do not think that it would be very conducive to the success of what you and I are planning. If your reactions could be as calm as the circumstances make possible. It would be very difficult for me to be there while protests and demonstrations are going on. V: I understand your point. K: Now, one final thing. Commander Howe will be ready to discuss technical things with you. V: All right. K: Should he call you? V: Yes, he can call me. I will be here in the Embassy and he can come here or I will come to his office. K: We will use your interpreters, is that all right? Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. - 2 - V: Fine, we have very good ones. K: All right. Then you will bring that over here. V: I will take and get it to Colonel Kennedy. K: I will be difficult to reach but I can be if necessary. I will be at a christianing. My office knows where to reach me. V: Good. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Laird/Kissinger 11:45 a.m. - 4/16/72 K: Mel, the President is absolutely delighted. He wants to thank you and everybody else. He would appreciate it if you would send a message to whoever you think should get it. L: I did. K: On his behalf? L: No, on mine, but I will send one on his behalf. K: And one to the destroyer commander. L: It will be going to the destroyer commander and also relayed to all hands. you K: Very good. It was good to see/this morning. L: Fine. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Rogers/Kissinger 3:10 p.m. - 4/16/72 K: Hello, Bill. R: Listen, I got your message we sent over to the North Vietnamese April 2 but there was another one we gave to them on the 6th. K: I will send that right over. R: Did they give us a written reply? K: No, they did not. R: Well, at that time they agreed to meet on April 13. K: They did not reply to that. It was just assumed. They did not reply to that. R: Well, as I understand it what they did was delay meeting for two days, then when we gave them the withdrawal notice they agreed to meet on April 13. K: Oh yes, yes, on the day we gave them the withdrawal notice they said orally they would meet on April 13. R: How does the date April 20th get into the picture? K: What we said was we would be prepared to resume on the 13th which did imply the 20th. R: On a ? K: Yes, at that. But I will get that right over. R: But on the business of Russia situation, if anyone has any word from Dobrynin let me know. K: If we get any word here we will send them over to you. I think the way to handle it we should make a formal protest, admit it and apologize. R: I can do it at State. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. - 2 - K: Investigate it? R: No . K: I am open to that. R: My present inclination is to say we have no idea; we didn't know what hit your ship whether it was aircraft in SAM. They had or schrapnel but that is our risks that we have to take, but this is a pretty tough position. K: I think we can say it was unintentional but we want to point out. R: We can also say we weren't sure what it was that hit you but if it was through anything we were involved in that hit you, we regret it. But this is a risk we take. K: Let us agree on this. If Dobrynin comes and attempts to deliver a note we will send him to you. Second, on these talking points for the Congressional leaders that the President . The one I mentioned to you - maybe we should say we won't have a volatile foreign policy. R: I don't like that and I don't like singling out President Kennedy. K: It isn't in our interest to get a huge human outcry. I talked to the President and he agreed to mute them. R: The one ;thing he doesn't mention was whether we would reintroduce ground troops. I talked to him last night and he said we should say that was one of the questions of further bombing we just leave open. K: Absolutely. R: Well, I don't think there is much else. They are going to make as much as they can politically out of it so I will be under attack. The one thing we have not done is whether we will have a public briefing on what the North Vietnamese have done in South Vietnam. K: You mean in terms of what? R: I am thinking about giving this committee, in public, a report on what the enemy has done. K: Well, maybe Mel ought to do it if it is on the Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON (tape) Secretary Rogers 4/16/72, 4:30 p.m. K: Bill. R: You've seen this protest I guess that was delivered to Beam. K: No, I haven't. R: Yeah, well, they've made a protest and they say that four of their ships were hit. They do not make any claim that there were dead or wounded among the Soviet employees; they say there were dead and wounded among the workers of the Port. K: Yes, that's what intercepts indicate, yes. R: The tone of the protest seems to me to be milder than the ones that they made in '67 and '68, and it's a lower level. In that case the protest was made to Rusk himself, I guess in both of those cases. K: Yeah. R: And this is a protest to Beam by their Deputy Foreign Minister, Gobolev (?). K: That's pretty mild so we shouldn't be too provocative in our reply R: No, I think we've got to tone down our answer. K: Right, I agree. R: And I'm preparing one now to send over; I don't know as we have to rush getting it back. K: I don't think we should reply until tomorrow Bill. R: I think that's right. K: That's pretty encouraging, don't you think. R: I think so, yeah. Just a minute here. TASS has also put out a statement. The statement TASS puts out is a little tougher; it says the Soviet people rathfully condemn these U.S. acts of aggression, and so forth. K: Yeah well of course they've got to do something like that. R: But I think in reading, comparing this protest with the others it doesn't accuse us of intentionally and deliberately doing this as far as they' re concerned. And the general rhetoric is somewhat softer, so Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Secretary Rogers K: I think we should give a fairly low-key reply Bill. I don't think we should confront them that way when we are after all somewhat in the wrong in the actual act. R: I agree. Well, I think what we can do is do is pretty much along the lines of the last one. We don't tx want to be more app apologetic than the last time because I think that XXX last time was a direct hit. I think we can we're not sure of course whether these were hits by American planes or whether it was misfiring on the part of the North Vietnamese. K: Yeah. R: Well anyway, we'll have something drafted to send over. K: Good, thank you Bill. R: Right, bye. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Gerard Smith/Kissinger 9:45 a.m. - 4/17/72 K: Hello. Jerry? S: Henry, can you hear me? K: Yes, I can hear you. S: Our man had word that Semyenov was in Moscow and he may the Haiphong bombing. The Soviets say that he left for Moscow Saturday but they want to stick with their theory that he is in Helsinki. If AP finds this out, the Soviets are not going to be able to keep up their fiction that he is in Helsinki. I thought you better be aware of it because it might be embarrassing after the bombings in Southeast Asia. K: We can correct it, can't we? S: I think so. K: I wouldn't correct it until it becomes an issue. S: All right. I just wanted you to be aware that this may be K: Right, OK. Thank you for calling, Jerry. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Joe Kraft/Kissinger 10:24 a.m. - 4/17/72 JK: Good morning, Henry, how are you? HK: OK. I have got to run off in a few minutes but I wanted to call you while I had a little time. JK: I have the impression the Russians keep slipping the challenge back - away from confrontation. HK: I don't know. JK: I mean the TASS statement looked to me to be moderate. HK: I think that is true. JK: I assume they are directing the question of what ship was sunk. HK: I think that is true, too. JK: So my next question is how far do you have to go before this before you engaged them? HK: Well, you can split the question into two parts. Slipping the challenge to a public confrontation doesn't mean you are not negaging them. Do you see what I mean? JK: Yes, you are. HK: I am not saying anything. I am just making an analytical point. JK: On the other hand, I do have the impression from all the documents I they feel the slip down the road is because they can't imagine that when it comes to a final crunch they are going to come down on our side. Can you imagine that? HK: No, but this is not the issue. That is beyond reason but there are many stages inbetween. JK: Are we on a track now - a planned series of events and happenings' ? HK: Well, we are on a track but it might not be the most obvious one. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. - 2 - JK: Not a compulsive track. HK: You know you shouldn't assume that we are going to have a run to Haiphong. JK: Everything everybody is talking about is a HK: Joe, I think we are on no compulsory track. JK: I would love to be given the task of breaking that barricade. I can organize a flotilla to run that HK: How heroic you are! JK: Not breaking it but you can see a Japanese ship, a Swedish ship HK: I get your point. 1 JK: You know when we had lunch I asked you about the McCloskey statement about the Russians. I had the impression that was going to be the last statement before. then Laird spoke up. Did something happen inbetween? HK: Well, I think the thing crystallized between that and the Laird statement. JK: The Laird statement was not out of order? HK: No. JK: How about the Vietnamese offer today? HK: Well, you know it's a fairly cynical maneuver and what we are trying to avoid is to get everything on-the-record again. Some things like that need to be in a proper framework. We can be accused of a lot of things but not about not wanting negotiations. JK: Henry, I think you could not be accused of that as long as you had kept that with Le Duc Tho. HK: They broke that off. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. - 3 - JK: You had a real dialogue going with Xuan Thuy. HK: Joe, it's entirely up to you what you write. I would not propose that line for a while but this I tell you as a friend. JK: But it's an appropriate question HK: It is an appropriate question. I just can't answer it. JK: Right and I shouldn't jump to conclusions. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Ziegler/Kissinger 12:02 p.m. - 4/17/72 Z: I don't know what you did to him (Rogers) yesterday, but he sure hung in there this morning. K: Good. Z: (Ziegler read from the wires the reports of Secretary Rogers' testimony this morning.) K: Good, that will charge up his people. Very good. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Walter Kissinger/Kissinger Afternoon - 4/17/72 WK: I have a man working for me who I think is first rate as an interpreter. He used to be Reischauer's interpreter when he was Ambassador. If you are reaching for someone for your trip to Japan HK: I have told the Japs one more leak in the newspapers about my not being cooperative and I won't come. WK: Yes, I have reading some of the articles. The folks had a nice time with you. You really laid it on for them. HK: Well, you know that comes with the job. WK: They are coming out here tomorrow. We have our annual meeting. HK: Oh, good. WK: I hope to see you fairly soon. I am leaving for Europe for about 10 days about but if you come up in the next two weeks I will see you. HK: How long will you be in Europe? WK: Just a week or 8 days. If we can't get together before, then after we are both a little freer of traveling. HK: Yes, I go to Japan at the end of the first week of May. Give me a ring. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Lloyd Shearer/Kissinger 12:45 p.m. - 4/17/72 K: Lloyd, how are you, you devil? S: Don't call me a devil. K: All I can tell you Lloyd is if I can do this on a girl who I try to avoid, think what I can do to one I really pursue. S: Henry, I want you to know one thing. This is one of the great coincidences of all time. Do you know who is on the other line? K: Who? S: Anne. K: Who's that? S: Your wife. Can you imagine two Kissingers calling at one time! K: What does she want with you? S: You might as well know the truth; we're having a love affair. She said we will probably elope next week to Manchester, New Hampshire. K: With who ? S: With me. K: What are you going to discuss with her ? S: Nothing. K: OK. S: Anyway, how do you feel ? K: Fine. S: When are you coming out? K: Not before June. S: Really ? Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. - 2 - K: Yes. S: Do you have Danielle's telephone number? K: I never had it. S: You haven't seen this marvelous book, have you? K: Yes. S: What do you think of it? K: I hope she wins the Pulitzer prize for fiction. S: That's great - can I use that line? K: Sure you can. S: I see your debriefing all my friends who come back from Hanoi before I have a chance. K: Like who? S: Sy Hearst. K: Yes, I like S: Are you going to Moscow? K: Do I think the Moscow summit is on? Yes, I think the Moscow summit is going to wrk out all right. S: OK. I asked your friend Ron Ziegler if I can go along. K: Would you go along? S: I would like to but we will see what they say. Anyway I was trying to get you together with Jack Anderson. K: Well, when I come out I would love to meet him. S: But you are not coming out until June. K: Well, in principle I would be glad to meet him here. S: Well, he is now a valuable lecturer. I thought you guys would be coming out sooner. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. - 3 - K: That was the plan at one point. S: OK. I have things I wanted to talk to you about and I don't know if this is a good time, but about 7 months ago you mentioned that you would like to be judged on Vietnam on what happened within the next 6 months and that doesn't seem fair in that respect to hold someone to what they said 6 months ago. K: You are very nice. S: I don't think anyone is responsible for what happened. For some good reason you were more optimistic than you are now. I don't think anybody should be held to this statement. K: Well, I think to a certain point. I told you there is nothing. Let's just wait a bit. S: How about through November? K: You know I just don't want to give any more time periods. I think we have achieved something but not everything. S: Well, I used to think that I was fairly well into that situation but now I ha ve my own doubts. There is a limit to a man's pain threshold; but that limit is death. You have to kill a lot of them but then what have you got? K: Yes. S: Does that seem valid to you? K: Well, that's not our policy. S: No, but that is in effect what has happened. That's what happens in any war, Henry. K: Then you would have to say the Russians should have surrendered to the Germans they would have saved a lot of lives too. S: Henry, take care of yourself. And come see us. K: Good. I will be in touch. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Rogers/Kissinger Mid-afternoon - 4/17/72 K: I just wanted to tell you your testimony - what I saw and read was outstanding. R: It worked out pretty well. It's a repulsive committee to testify against. K: Yes, but you were on the attack. I thought you were one of the most effective I have ever seen you. R: Fulbright was really on the defensive. Thank you very much. K: The reports from Haig are pretty good from MR-1 1. R: It would seem to me we would be able to hold out there. a logistics problem. K: Actually I think they made a mistake in kicking this off. R: I think MR-1 is better for us be cause it's so much closer. If we knock them over this time we can end it all. K: That's what I think and actually if we can slow down the bombing at least until the 20th. R: I think we have made our point. At any rate, thank you very much for calling. K: Right and Congratulations! Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON President/Kissinger 3:02 p.m. - 4/17/72 P: Henry, I think it would be a good project for someone on your staff but a good counterploy would be to have a number of our Republican friends in the House and Senate put in a final resolution containing the condemnation of the invasion of South Vietnam by North Vietnam. Do you get what I mean? K: Yes. P: Apparently Rogers said something like this before them this morning: "I heard all of you condemning what we are doing but nothing about what the enemie's doing. 11 We support the decision of the President to have South Vietnam defend themselves. K: Fine, we will get something drafted. P: When you get the draft, send it to MacGregor. K: I will give it to MacGregor. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Admiral Moorer/Kissinger (Secure Phone) 4:08 p.m. - 4/17/72 K: Hello. M: Say, Henry, I was coming over with Laird when he comes over to see the President. K: Right. I will be there. M: Is there anything I should prepare? K: No, he just wanted to have a general toak with you. M: Good, I wanted to know if I have anything to prepare. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON The President 4/17/72 6:25pm P: I wanted to check -- tonight you're going out. K: Yes, I'm going to have dinner with Denis Hamilton, the publisher of the London Sunday Times. P: Oh fine, yes. K: But I won't do it until 8:00. P: Okay, fine. Where will you be till 8:00? Are you at home now? K: No, I'm in my office. P: Tomorrow night I think I will go to Camp David. But for our meeting I suppose we can have it in the afternoon as well as the morning. K: Any time Mr. President. You mean the afternoon Wednesday? P: Yes. K: That's easy. P: There isn't anything your people have to do over. K: I could give you some books tomorrow night. P: I think it would be good for me to go away for a day. K: Absolutely. P: Because of pressures of other things. K: Absolutely, very good. P: When will Haig be back? K: If you have a meeting Wednesday afternoon Haig can probably be present. P: Good. K: That's when he's coming homw. And I have got a dinner Wednesday night, just to be seen. P: And I told Haldeman we have got you covered beautifully. No one will know a damn thing. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON The President 4/17/72 6:25 pm þ. 2 K: And I will have taken my staff up to work with you at Camp David. P: Send your staff up for the weekend. K: No, the staff I'm taking with me. P: Oh, what will we do with Haig? He should go to Camp David. K: He should be here Friday to cover for me and then go up Saturday. P: Yes, he can go up Saturday to meet with us. I think we've got it covered. K: Absolutely. P: And Henry, don't let that Times guy run you off your course. K: My trip has only one advantage -- it gives us a hole card in this country. P: It gives us an advantage in other ways. But I have a thought I want to discuss with you. Perhaps if we finish in time. Your dinner is at 8:00? K: Yes, but I can put it off. P: No, go to that. What's your schedule tomorrow? K: I am seeing the Chinese in the afternoon. P: Whatever happend, there is to be no looking back, no second guessing. Many will say 'if we hadn't hit Haiphong' or 'if we hadn't hit those Russian ships. I K: It isn't enough for us to hold in the south P: That's right. They have no interest in settling it otherwise. K: They'd have no interest in settling and they will drive us crazy all summer. P: Well we have given them an interest at any rate, Did they send over a navigator? K: Yes, and a co-pilot. P: For your plane or the advance plane? Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON The President 4/17/72 6:25pm p. 3 K: My plane. P: Does the advance plane have one too? Has it gone? K: It has gone, but it is flying regular commercial routes. P: They must not cancel it. But if they cancel your trip it will be a hell of a signal. K: I told them this is our last chance; next week you have to make irrevocable decisions on Vietnam. P: And we must not be in a position of their cancelling the Summit. We have got to cancel it first. The Polish thing coming out today was a good thing, don't you think? K: Excellent thing. P: It confused everybody. K: Excellent thing P: Okay, good. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. Telecon Mr. Kissinger Dave Kraslow 4-17-72; 7:00 p.m. HK: I will do my damnedest tomorrow. DK: How are my chances tomorrow? HK: You will be one of the only newsmen -- good chance in the afternoon. The President may go to Camp David. DK: Max's piece -- did you give him a lot HK: Would you believe it if I told you I had not read it yet. I talked to Max for three minutes - less time than I talked to you. I talked to you longer. DK: I don't see how he got so much out of that. HK: May I read it -- let me read it first. You owe me one piece of information. The Democrat - the guy you told me who arranged this China overture. DK: He's a former government official who was considered seriously as an intermediary before the President HK: Oh, that's not unreasonable. The Democrat himself did not know he was being considered. DK: Yes he did. HK: That's not right. DK: I will tell you who the source was, Manach. HK: Manach has put out more bullshit -- really now. I will do my damnedest to see you and I will not give any long analysis to anyone. DK: Max has a very good analysis. HK: Let me read it maybe I did lead him in that direction. I read your piece and I think it is fair enough. DK: You mean the one this morning. HK: Yes. DK: Shall I call Coleman now. HK: Call Coleman in the morning. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. Telecon Mr. Kissinger Dave Kraslow 4-17-72; 7:00 p.m. - 2 - DK: I would like you to explain what went into this decision. HK: The reason I am so reluctant to see you is because you are so damn good. You always ask the right questions that I can't answer. Perhaps in two or three weeks the answer may become apparent. DK: I will call Coleman in the morning. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Adm. Moorer (Secure Voice) 4/18/72 8:20am K: I notice for the second day we haven't hit in the north and now we're putting out stories that there are limite we have authorized. M: I never put these out. I don't know who put them out. I know there are limits. But I talked to Johnny Vogt and told him we have to getu up there. K: Why haven't they? M: Because they have been using their assets down south. But Haig has done his work and I think you will see a change. I understand your problem but I have got to testify before Fulbright today. I would like to get to you on that. But I understand what you want. K: Especially tonight and tomorrow night. They they can slacken off a bit. In fact fidir the rest of the week it would be good if they did slacken off, but for the next two nights we would like a real blow. I mean within the existing R authorities, of course. M: X I understand. K: I will see you at WSAG. M: No, I have to go to Fulbright. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Secretary Laird 4/18/72 8:25 a.m. L: I just have a few dirty questions here. K: I see you have been opposed to everything in the New York Times today. L: K: I know. L: That goes back to some of these turn-downs in March. You can't stop that though. K: It's not a good story. L: It's a lousey story. K: What I am concerned about is the stories out of Saigon that we have given orders to stop it. L: I will tend to that too. We can watch the 52s, but we're getting in touch with them now. K: I don't want to put out limits. L: Hell no. That story of Parks is particularly bad. K: It makes us look weak. L: Did you read the story of Parks? K: No. L: It's real bad. K: What does it say? L: I'll have Dan bring it over. K: We don't want to look like we are backing off. L: Hell no. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Mosbacher/Kissinger 11:53 a.m. - 4/18/72 M: Henry. K: Bud, we need you to help us with some things. I would like to send Winston Lord over fairly soon to explain it to you. M: OK, fine. K: In the next 45 minutes. M: That's fine. I have a 12:30 appointment with your friend, the Secretary, so if he could get here a little sooner or even afterwards. K: Maybe 15 to 1:00 or 1 o'clock. Can you produce gifts quickly and quietly. M: I think so. We always have a stockpile here, perhaps not as imaginative as if we had more time, but we will have some things. K: Good. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Rush/Kissinger (Secure Phone) 12:30 p.m. - 4/19/72 K: Ken, one thing I neglected to tell you this morning - we would like to get as many supplies as we can into South Vietnam during the next week. Even if there is a negotiation that leads to a reduction on both sides. Can you work with Moorer on that? R: Yes I can, Henry. We have a lot there now. K: Yes I know. We want to get a little insurance over there. R: OK, I will do that. K: I told the President I don't know what we would do without you there. R: Well, Henry. K: OK, Ken. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELEC ON Richard Valeriani 4/18/72 1:30 p.m. V: I'm over here full time now. K: Yes, I know. V: And we are doing an hour-long special tonight. I wanted to know if I can come to talk to you today about the decision and atmosphere. K: Actually no, I am going off for the better part of the afternoon. V: I am especially interested in the attitude toward the Soviet Union. K: What about it? V: Why the emphasis on the Soviet supply of arms. K: Because without it the offensive couldn't have occurred. V: before the summit? K: Ask yourself this question. If the roles were reversed and the U.S. poured arms in and confronted an army in which the Soviet Union has forces and gave them substantial offensive capability and that capability was used in a massive invation in which 70, 000 Russians were taken prisoner, everybody would say thet America has taken an action for which it must take responsibility. V: You have no that this will sour the atmosphere of the summit? K: If it had succeeded would that have soured the atmosphere of the summit? V: Yes I would think. K: We are trying to give them a sense of responsibility. V: offensive responsibility? K: yes. Nothakx Know that we didn't know what they would in one blow. V: What is the message you are trying to get to the Russians? To knock it off? K: Well, it is hard to imagine that you can have a serious relaxation of tension and constant challenges. This is not to be ascribed to the White House sources. V: I understand that sir. I wanted to understand this in relation to the summit. K: It's not that overwhelming; I just wanted to point it out. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Dobrynin/Kissinger 2:48 p.m. - 4/18/72 D: Hello. K: Anatol, two things. On the lend lease negotiation you people are linking the two - financial and MFN which our delegation is not authorized to do at this point. Our original proposal shows you combine it to the sums and so forth. You and I understand that when Patolovich comes here you will link them together D: You see, Henry, while in Moscow they give it as a matter of principle to link it in a way what you mention. And I am prepared to tell them once more. Patolovich will be here on the 7th of May so I am sure he will discuss it privately with K: I am trying to get these present discussions off a stalemate course. Loo, here we are prepared to look at this matter with an under- standing rather than say, "No, we are not going to discuss it. " So just think of a kind of phrse. D: K: And then you will talk amount. D: And then we will discuss but they have instructions because if you look about the matter of lend lease. wo we are under the but they would like to have the report in Moscow the Americans said when the discussions will be They will not ask that negotiations. just remember we just use two phrases about it. The problems of lend lease we are going to discuss. You know how to do it. There is no objections in regard to the discussions. K: Right. Now you are coming with me tomorrow? D: Yes, I am going to go with you. K: I am going to be away from my office. D: would like me to go together with you. K: I will have to make certain arrangements so that you will not be. D: I will be in touch with you but you will not be in tomorrow? Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. - 2 - K: Yes, I will be in tomorrow. Call me in the morning and we will work out the arrangements. My suggestion is to go to Vorontsov's house and we pick you up there. D: But I have some luggage but I could bring it from there. K: Can I pick you up in one of our cars? D: Of course, it is no problem. Good, so I will have Vorontsov get in touch with your man. K: OK, we will discuss it tomorrow. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Admiral Moorer/Kissinger (Secure Phone) 3:42 p.m. - 4/18/72 K: Tom, I have been talking to the President about what we were discussing this morning and we want to make sure we understand each other. We want a normal effort unless it for a technical situation. M: Tonight and. K: Tonight and tomorrow night. 150 sorties and then after that step it down to 100. M: 100 every night through Sunday night. K: Well, maybe lay off one night and then a little less after that. M: OK. K: After Sunday do whatever you think you ought to do, but do that within your own authorities. Don't talk to people about it. M: Right. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Admiral Moorer (Secure Vodre) 4/18/72 8:30pm K: We obviously want to stop the stories of restraints on bombing. Can't we get these military people out there to shut up? M: I will do my best. I don't know where the leaks are coming from though. I have personally insisted this is not the case. K: You think there is some backchanneling going on? M: On this particular subject I don't think so. On other things yes but x on this particular subject no. K: But you think Haig got the word across whom to listen to? M: That's what Johnny Vogt told me last night. He thought the message had been preperly delivered and absorbed. K: Good. If he can do something tonight or tomorrow night then he can slacken off again. He doesn't have to make an abnormal effort. M: I've got to talk to you. K: I'm leaving at 3:00. Can you come over before then? M: Where are you going? K: New York. M: I am too. K: Can you see me before than? M: I'll try. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Admiral Moorer (Secure Vodice) 4/18/72 8:30pm K: We obviously want to stop the stories of restraints on bombing. Can't we get these military people out there to shut up? M: I will do my best. I don't know where the leaks are coming from though. I have personally insisted this is not the case. K: You think there is some backchanneling going on? M: On this particular subject I don't think so. On other things yes but X on this particular subject no. K: But you think Haig got the word across whom to listen to? M: That's what Johnny Vogt told me last night. He thought the message had been preperly delivered and absorbed. K: Good. If he can do something tonight or tomorrow night then he can slacken off again. He doesn't have to make an abnormal effort. M: I've got to talk to you. K: I'm leaving at 3:00. Can you come over before then? M: Where are you going? K: New York. M: I am too. K: Can you see me before than? M: I'll try. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Amb. Rabin 4/19/72 10:03 a. m. R: I don't want to bother you as a matter of fact, but I wanted to know K: You guys planned this well; you're diverting my attention. R: It might be. I understand at present there is no need for any talks in continuation of what we held in the past. K: I have interrupted these talks. I would like, just for my own guidance on the conditions which you outlined (only for the President and me) but you can always assume when you do not hear from me there is nothing affecting you go ing on. R: Fine because tomorrow I will have the Foreign Minister here. I would like to know how to behave. K: There's been no discussion on this subject since you went away, on the ground that conditions are not propitious to discuss such delicate matters. R: I will be out of town nex t week. K: Back when? R: A week from this coming Saturday. K: That is all right. R: As you remember, we discussed meetings that will take place after the Summit. K: What meetings? R: Issue of . K: Oh yes. R: From my point of view I doubt if you will find time to cover the issue. K: This will be done. R: I would be grateful. K: It will not only be covered but it will be covered favorably. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Amb. Rabin 4/19/72 10:03 a.m. p. 2 R: Four, India presses Israel to continue selling arms to India. Do you want me to approach the State Department on this? I can wait ; it is not urgent. K: Delay it because at this moment the President is unhappy with them. Can you delay till you get back? R: Oh of course. K: A couple of weeks? R: I will try K: And on the other matter, as I told you, there will hever be a. conversation of which you are not informed. But I should be armed in case it starts again. R: I just now get a cable in which I was authorized to tell you exactly what was the map? . I just got the cable now. K: I don't need it till you get back; there's no chance of my getting into it until you do. R: When you need to know, I have the authorization to tell you. K: On all fronts or just there? R: No. K: That's the only place I need it, R: Relation of Egypt to Israel. Last issue, I talked to you alone about a certain subject to Max Fisher and his friend, the former Attorney General , certain question in the context of the Summit. I think I have found a way how to tackle it and reduce tension here. K: Excellent, I appreciate that, If I have a, chance to see you this week I will do so, but we have no urgent business now, R: No, no urgent business. K: And I don't push you when there is no need, R: on television and radio today. About moving closer to Saigon. K: Oh baloney. They are not beseiging ? An Loc now and some of the units are moving south to go around it, But at the same time it means they are thinning themselves out and coming into areas of concentration. They had three divisions against one poor one at An Loc and they couldn't take it, Now with two against a good division it doesn't seem to me that they Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Amb. Rabin 4/19/72 10:30 a.m. p. 3 can do much better. Haig was just there; he says in the north we have control. R: That is obvious to me. K: And in the south it's somewhat more fluid. But it's hard to see how they can achieve a victory unless we make a major mistake. R: And is the limit mid-May? K: Yes in the Saigon area definitely. If they are terribly lucky they can't pull too many surprises in terms of deployments now be- cause we know where they are. You can't tell when a South Vietnamese division will collapxe, but R: None of them have so far, K: No, but you can't prove that they won't. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Rush/Kissinger (Secure Phone) 12:30 p.m. - 4/19/72 K: Ken, one thing I neglected to tell you this morning - we would like to get as many supplies as we can into South Vietnam during the next week. Even if the stocks are high now and even if there is a negotiation that leades to a reduction on both sides. Can you work with Moorer on that? R: Yes, I can, Henry. We have a lot there now. K: Yes, I know. We want to get a little insurance over there. R: OK, I will do that. K: I told the President I don't know what we would do without you there. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Javits/Kissinger 12:35 p.m. - 4/19/72 K: I was sorry I had to cancel the breakfast. J: I had something that couldn't wait that I need to discuss with you. It is on this committee of 9 on NATO that looked so promising. I have a problem. Unless you advise me to go through Rogers this is what I would like. The man they wanted to give me was a Gaullist who would ruin my committee. I came to an agreement with a Gaullist who was a senior member on this organization to accept Louis Jokes (sp. ?) He went back and told us Louis Jokes said no. I am suspicious of that. I think he just said that because I turned down his guy. In the meantime in order to bring that matter to I got Taney (sp. ?) to say he would serve here on my I could go to the highest government levels, which is why I'm calling you, to get me Joyes because he is acceptable to his people and me. Failing that I could go ahead with Taney. If I am going after Joye$ I know I don't have a prayer without some help. K: What form of help? J: I think if a communique could be sent to whoever you talk to in the French Government that it is desireable to have JoXes - more desireable to have Joxes - it could do it. K: Well, we will do that. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Moorer/Kissinger (Secure Phone) 4/19/72 - 5:10 p.m. K: Tom, you are going on that TUNWA thing tomorrow night? M: My instructions are to do the best I can tomorrow night but not later than Friday night. K: Right. We would prefer tomorrow night. M: Yes, everybody knows that. I told them 2 or 3 hours ago. K: Good. What would affect it? M: Just getting all the operations coordinated. I think probably they can do it. Usually the situation is that they give them about 26 hours to get ready. There are two targets suitable for the B-52's. It is just the coordination. I think they can do it all right. K: Well, you know if it's got to be Friday, it's got to be Friday. M: We will do our best. K: The President was wondering if there is any way we can break that channel into Haiphong by using concrete blocks or something? M: We have several plans: We can have an old submarine in there blown up all the . This way the ships couldn't navigate. One of the problems you have to look at in the situation is the silts up. If the Red River comes down that channel and the silts up it would be difficult to do with concrete blocks. K: You get the idea. Something to make shipping more difficult. M: One of the things we could do is remove all the I will - talk to the flight commander. The other thing we had in mind is send some kind of ship in the channel. K: What would you do with the crew of the ship? M: Well we would have to take them off. I have got a couple of plans. K: Well that has possibilities. Just find a ship that would keep them busy for a couple of months. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. 2 M: Yes, I will. K: We would need it by next week. M: I will have the plans by then. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELEC ON Secretary Laird (Secure Voice) 4/19/72 5:03 p.m. L: i wanted to just visit with you for a. few minutes about get to start addressing these costing figures. You didn't want to start addressing them till this week. Now we are operating on a. deficiency It's not important, but it is important from the standpoint of where we end up at the end of this Fiscal Year. Thenk George Shultz was right -- we will have to take these out of force structure here in the United States, which amounts to $450 million probably. I am going to have to talk to the Appropriations committee of both the Senate and the House. K: Yes, but not this week. It's very important we don't have any of this this week. L: They are after me each day. K: Any time from next Tuesday on is okay. Slip it to Tuesday; it really is very important. L: You think it will be embarrassing to have the costs come out? K: To have a. debate start on it now. If you can hold off andx wait till Monday; by that time it will be a. lot clearer. L: On redeployments you mentioned and the P esident did to talk about mentations. We've got 150 aircraft on the way and 20 ships that haven't been announced but have orders. It might be well once in a while to put out a story on that. We are looking at two more F-4 squadrons for Thailand. That's very little, only 136 planes. We've got 119 we haven't announced and on B-52 we've gone from 55 to 139. K: We don't mind your putting out in the next few days some word if you don't make it too heavy. L: We've got two squadrons from Florida I believe we may need some others to rotate for those that are TDY now. K: Let me tank talk to the President again on these two squadrons. Hold up until tomorrow. Lt me talk to him again. He said it should be done but this is a. reasonable point of yours, Let me run it by him. You are thinking of rotation things? L: Yes, so we can keep air assets at a fairly high level in case we need them this summer. We may need some. I can't guarantee, but we may need some insurance. And I will keep **************** costs till next week. K: And I will talk to the President about the two squadrons again. L: K: We slightly prefer tomorrow night but it's not a. big thing. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELECON Sec. Laird 4/19/72 5:03 p.m. P. 2 L: Okay. I will hold off on this till I hear from you, but I would like to send you a paper for the President to read maybe on augmentation (?) and not putting it all in at one time but having it avail- able in case we needed it. K: Okay, I will get word to you tonight or tomorrow morning on these two squadrons. L: Okay. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. TELCON Sec. Peterson/Kissinger 6:00 p.m. - 4/19/72 K: Pete. P: How are you? How is the Vietnam situation look? K: Actually it doesn't look so bad and I think we know what we are doing. P: Well, that's good. K: I am getting phone calls from Harvard colleagues asking what's going on and saying I am eager to bomb. How can we be eager to bomb? P: You are confident about the military situation? K: In the south. P: What about the Soviets and the summit? K: That I am confident about. P: Today we got a call from State stating that in the after- noon meeting the Soviets would be told the package deal was fine and that we would talk about trade and credits but just between you and me the game we will play at State is that we are to move trade in the lend lease group. So I wanted to alert you to this. K: Believe me it can't happen. I have got it fixed on both ends. P: Well, I was just telling you. K: I have no question about what the bastards are doing. P: What would you advise us to do? K: The problem is Dobrynin told me that under their instructions their guy needs to be told that we are willing in principle to look at these other issues without discussing lend lease figures, but he also understands the group deal can be made between you and Poland so the only thing we have to do is keep these talks going after which the Poland thing will take over. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. - 2 - HAVE P: The second CONCEPT we should do is to look over the whole trade picture. They are now submitting very long reports about . What is your advice? K: I would proceed on whatever plan you and I agreed on. P: I don't we are talking about to go into this public paper of theirs so what we will do is just ask questions but not get substantive. K: That's right. Just keep them talking. Get ideas out of them but don't tell them what they are for. P: OK. Sorry to bother you. K: Can you and Sally join me a week from Sunday for dinner. P: This is April 30th. K: Yes. P: Fine. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. Telecon Mr. Kissinger Alexis Johnson 4-19-72; 6:05 p.m. J: I think it would be a good idea to see the Koreans. K: To see the President -- not a chance. J: We sent you a memo a few days ago. K: I know. J: They are the only people that still have troops down there. K: Let me reraise it. He won't see Foreign Ministers. He sees Under Secretaries of State. I will reraise it. You couldn't be more right. I will make a strong case. If I can arrange it, you tell the obnoxious son-of-a-bitch not to raise fifty things he wants to raise with the President. J: No, no, I will drill him. K: Great allies as the Koreans are, they are great pains in the neck. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. Telecon Mr. Kissinger Ivan Head 4-19-72; 6:30 p.m. H: Sorry to trouble you but I wanted to tell you your message had been given to the Soviet Ambassador. K: In a firm way. H: In a very firm way. K: When did you do it. H: He was calling on Mitchell Sharp. K: No, I mean when. H: Monday morning. K: What did you say? H: I said it was a coincidence seeing him there. I told him in the course of a conversation with me you made a point that I thought he should know - the President is firm in his intentions -- continue with withdrawals (I could not hear the rest). He waited for me said he wanted to make sure what I said. K: Well, thank you very much and you will let me know when you are H:: Yes. I passed on the word about security to the appropriate person and I should have something back. The Prime Minister also wanted me to say to you how disappointed he was that you were already on the plane and he could not say good-bye. K: How nice of him. Good. Let's keep in touch. Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified. NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS PROJECT DOCUMENT CONTROL RECORD ITEM REMOVED FROM THIS FILE FOLDER A RESTRICTED DOCUMENT OR CASE FILE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THIS FILE FOLDER. FOR A DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEM REMOVED AND THE REASON FOR ITS REMOVAL, CONSULT DOCUMENT ENTRY NUMBER 2 ON EITHER THE DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD (GSA FORM 7279 OR NA FORM 1421) OR NARA WITHDRAWAL SHEET (GSA FORM 7122) LOCATED IN THE FRONT OF THIS FILE FOLDER. A sanitized copy substituted for an original item which contains information restricted under the Privacy Act. NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION NLN Form 101 (revised 6-85) Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library DECLASSIFIED This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.

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    "ocrText": "DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]\nDOCUMENT\nDOCUMENT\nNUMBER\nTYPE\nSUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS\nDATE\nRESTRICTION\nI\nTel Con\nMrs. Mosbacher / Henry Kissinger\n4/12/72\nD\n(2 pgs.)\n2\nTel TelCon Con\nMrs. Mosbacher/ Henry Kissinger\n4/19/72\nG\n(1 pg.)\nFILE GROUP TITLE\nBOX NUMBER\nKissinger Transcripts - Telephone Conversations\n13\nFOLDER TITLE\n12-19 Apr. 1972\n10\nRESTRICTION CODES\nA. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.\nE. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or\nB. National security classified information.\nfinancial information.\nC. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's\nF. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law\nrights.\nenforcement purposes.\nD. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy\nG. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.\nor a libel of a living person.\nH. Withdrawn and returned non-historical material.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\n0:1989-235-084/00024\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nNA 14021 (4-85)\nTELCON\nLaird/Kissinger (Secure Phone)\n9:40 a.m. - 4/12/72\nL:\nHello.\nK:\nMel, how are you?\nL:\nVery good. How did your briefing go?\nK:\nIt went all right. The President got a little carried at the end there.\nL:\nDid he?\nK:\nYes. I am going to talk to Scott and Ford and have them slow them\ndown again. He made it into a bigtest with the Soviets and so forth.\nL:\nWe have got to be careful about that.\nK:\nOn the B-52 thing - that is going this afternoon?\nL:\nRight. You know that strike on Binh - our recognaissance\nthe miscued radar show they hit on target.\nThis is doing it\nthrough the clouds. The maps must be off in calibration almost a\nmile - one kilometer.\nK:\nIn other words, they didn't hit anything.\nL:\nThey hit but not that target. They were off one kilometer. The\nproblem with that is I have got to go up and take care of it. The\nfact the Strategic Air Command is concerned that the radios check\nout perfectly with the 300 feet of\n.\nNow there must be\nsomething wrong with the chart.\nK:\nWhat point are you making?\nL:\nThe point is\nthey showed the charts were off one kilometer\nfor bombing by B - 52's.\nK:\nAll over South Vietnam?\nL:\nThat may be. They are checking it out. In South Vietnam there is\nno problem, but in North Vietnam they will be off by as much as a\nkilometer. This is serious when it comes to hitting civilians with\nOBU's which they are doing. Last night at 1:00 a.m. I got a call.\nThey were going to take the airfield but the villages I didn't think\nthey should hit them before it's checked out.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nK:\nWell, I don't know if the airfield is worth it.\nL:\nI think it is.\nK:\nHow long is it going to take them to check it out? I don't know\nif we can fight a war with this military establishment. We are not\ninterested in an airfield; we are interested in a bigger strike. I\nthink we ought to call it off. We can't afford to horse around. It's\ngot to be massive.\nL:\nThis will be a massive strike.\nK:\nIf the Air Force wants to fight their own war let them do it, but\nwe want to bring this war to an end.\nL:\nThe weather is clearing up now, but Henry you have to make sure\nyour calibration on the chart is correct.\nK:\nWell, I'm going to the President on this. I am just wondering if\nwe should call the other strike back. I'll check with the President\nand call you back in 10 minutes.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nPresident\n4/12/72 3:10pm\nP: With the Chinese I think you probably ought to\nno need to\nplay too hard a game with them on the rhetoric side, do you think? Say we\nunderstand but please, as the President said to the Prime Minister Chou,\nanything we do here is not directed against you. We wouldn¹t want them\nto say Mansfield and Scott shouldn't come or something like that.\nK: No, Mr. President, I think exactly that's the right course to take\nand that's what I planned to do.\nP: Also give them the idea we are playing them against the Russians.\nHave you got any ideas on that?\nK: Tell them the same principle is involved here as in the India-Pakistan thing.\nP: We are not getting along well with the Russians; say the President\nhas indicated that to the Russians, and so told the legislators. Say we are\nnot putting any pressure on them. Are you going to call Dobrynin and say\nwe will consider the trip to Mr. Grezhnev? If you are foing for this purpose\nanyway, we can say\nthis is the major concern.\nIncidentally,\ndid any strike get off?\nK: They are going off now Mr. President.\nP: At 2:30 today. I wonder when I will have a chance to see Haig.\nK: Tomorrow\nMr. President I have a call soming in from\nDobrynin now.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nThe President\n4/12/72 3:22pm\nK: I wanted to give the word to Dobrynin. He said it's the most cheerful\nnews he had all day. I didn't even say you had agreed, just you were a considering\nit. He said he will pass it to Moscow right away.\nP: I feel you ought to go, not only to discuss this but the Summit. Was he happy\nK: He was slobbering. Brezhnev say the Hanoi Ambassador today and\nmade a statement of support. I showed this to my Europe man who doesn't\nknow what the hell is going on and said what do you think. He said if we made a\nthat statement like that about an ally he would conclude we were getting ready\nto dcrew him, and he knows nothing.\nP: That's why we must keep the Russian thing in in Canada. Don't you think?\nK: Yes.\nP: Okay, you go up to New York. Is the weather improving any?\nK: Yes.\nP: XXX You will be back from New York by\nI won't get a chance\nto see Haig. I'm staying up there until noon. You want Haig to see me there\nor you and I see him together? Or maybe he doesn't need to, good God, I\nguess he knows.\nK: He knows your thinking.\nP: How about my taking him with me up to Camp David, seeing him there\nfor an hour and then sending him back? Tell him to go with me at 4:30 and\ncome back about 7:30.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nNIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS PROJECT\nDOCUMENT CONTROL RECORD\nITEM REMOVED FROM THIS FILE FOLDER\nA RESTRICTED DOCUMENT OR CASE FILE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM\nTHIS FILE FOLDER. FOR A DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEM REMOVED\nAND THE REASON FOR ITS REMOVAL, CONSULT DOCUMENT ENTRY\nNUMBER\nON EITHER THE DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD\n(GSA FORM 7279 OR NA FORM 1421) OR NARA WITHDRAWAL SHEET\n(GSA FORM 7122) LOCATED IN THE FRONT OF THIS FILE FOLDER.\nA sanitized copy substituted for an original item which\ncontains information restricted under the Privacy Act.\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nNLN Form 101 (revised 6-85)\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAdm. Moorer/Mr. Kissinger\n7:00 p.m. 4/12/72\nHAK:\nI wanted to check with you to make sure you are going to\nstart to move up to the 18th parallel. the President wanted that.\nAM:\nI think they are already moving up there he will get it.\nHAK: We are stepping this thing up. Attacks by air strike as\nsoon as possible in the combat zone.\nADM: I understand that aircraft have been sitting by every day.\nHAK: How is the weather?\nADM: The weather is still--just got a report; they are calling\nfor 3, 000 ft. overcast, occasionally broken in the afternoon,\nrain, fog and drizzel tonight and some decrease in clouds in\n36 hours. We will really rock them then.\nHAK: This bombing will have to stop soon anyway. We are concentrated\nin the area of the 18th?\nADM: You can rest assure that they will go--we have 100 sortees\nHAK: You understand that the President said south of the 18th\nif you need it.\nADM: I have sent out message on 52's strike. I told them in the\nfirst place that we authorize a TOT of the 12/20/10 zulu and I said\nto hit the air field and logistics target and in the end to let me know\nwhat was hit.\nHAK: And a minimum of civilian casualties.\nADM: Yes. And I said advise me when aircraft is clear of the area.\nI gave storage area at Som\nand power plant is their option\n(one other target was mentioned).\nI think they will distribute\nthe aircraft 9 66 3--we authorized three, directed to hit at least two\nand three if it fits into their tactics.\nHAK: No civilian casualties if possible.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nHaldeman/Kissinger\n12:50 a.m. - 4/13/72\nH:\nThis is Bob. I just got a report from Chuck on the Staff Meeting\nthis morning that there not be any response on attacks.\nK:\nI didn't say that. I said they should check their responses with\nus and give us a chance to put it in a bigger context.\nH:\nWell, he read it that they should do nothing. All I wanted to say\nis that is counter to the President's view. He is very anxious\nwe lo ck Kennedy and Humphrey into the position they are in in\nopposition to us.\nK:\nIn view of that one factor I mentioned we have to recognize that\nthat was the correct\nThe only thing I asked for was I\nasked Chuck to check any replies with us before they are made\nand I think if we can make it through a week before an uproar\nwe will know exactly where the cards lie. We will have so many\ncards we can string on them.\nH:\nThe point is you have got a positive thing here. There are only\ntwo people who will be the Democratic candidate for President -\nKennedy or Humphrey. Both are way out on a limb - Kennedy for\nwhat he stands and Humphrey for backing him up. The President\nwants to make sure we establish them on that limb.\nK:\nMy concern, Bob, is that given the situation we now face where\nwe really may break this thing wide open I think the less screaming\nnow the better off we are. The President's strategy was 100%\ncorrect as long as we relied on the outcome of the battle. But if\nanything happens here Humphrey loses the whole\nWe will\nknow by the 24th where the cards lie.\nH:\nThen you don't want no response?\nK:\nNo, no, I said\nI would not start an all-out attack on them.\nH:\nOK.\nK:\nThat would be my distinction.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSec. Connally/Kissinger\n9:45 a.m. - 4/13/72\nK:\nMr. Secretary.\nC:\nYes sir, Henry.\nK:\nI called you the other day - they scheduled a Senior Review Group\nmeeting on my calendar and showed it as Chile which I thought\nwas foreign policy. Then they go into the details of\nC:\nYes, I know.\nK:\nI want you to know if I have something to say to you on negotiations\nI don't call meetings of low-level people, I would call you. I am\nsorry that came about. I closed off the meeting when I realized\nwhat was coming up.\nC:\nI appreciate that Henry. Thank you for calling.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRogers/Kissinger\n11:20 a.m. - 4/13/72\nR:\nHello.\nK:\nBill.\nR:\nHi, Henry.\nK:\nI really didn't have anything I wanted to tell you except that the\nway everyone is pulling together on this Vietnam thing is superb.\nR:\nI think it's worked out fine.\nK:\nAnd the load McCloskey is doing is spectacular.\nR:\nWe have another press conference on support assistance on Monday\nand they will be asking us about Vietnam. I am trying to get a\npostponement on it but about the best way is to be out of town.\nSo, if the President could think of some place to send me on\nMonday.\nK:\nLike where?\nR:\nIf you have any bright ideas, let me ow.\nK:\nOK.\nR:\nWe don't want to be to obvious.\nK:\nWhat could be done at the UN for example.\nR:\nLet me think.\nK:\nThe posture we would like to maintain for a week or so is somewhat\none of serious determination.\nR:\nWell, if I have to testify I will follow the line.\nK:\nI know you will. The President was thinking of giving a speech but\nhe has cancelled that.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nR:\nFor example on negotiations you can't be totally clear and if you\nare totally adamant it sounds like you are giving up all hope.\nWe don't want to give up all hope because it weakens our position.\nK:\nRight.\nR:\nI know you aren't involved in this but\nPeter Flanigan's\nrequest on the representation of John Connally.\nK:\nI frankly don't know anything about that.\nR:\nWe have got to get everybody playing on the team. He just disregarded\nthe rest of the White House.\nK:\nI have had that problem. But I want to thank you Bill.\nR:\nI think the OAS matter has gone pretty well.\nK:\nI had that impression.\nR:\nI had a very good day with them yesterday. The Chilean said he\nagreed very much with what I said and he complimented you.\nK:\nIsn't that interesting.\nR:\nAnd the press coverage has been good.\nK:\nFirst time we have had any press coverage from the OAS.\nR:\nYes, OK, I will see you later in the day.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMoorer/Kissinger\n11:50 a.m. - 4/13/72\nK:\nTom, I have been talking to the President. He would appreciate\nit if you would send a message to Abrams making it clear Haig\nis coming with full Presidential authority. He is to be given full\ncooperation and he carries personal instructions from the\nPresident.\nM:\nAbsolutely. I have already given him his itinerary and I will\npass this along too.\nK:\nAnd anything else you need to get into Abrams head the party is\nover.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nPeter Flanigan\n4/13/72 1:55pm\nF: I talked to Palmby and he is\nI told him what to do in\nthe future. P\nis coming back on Saturday.\nK: They are to keep quiet at all costs.\nF: But he will be asked how do prospects look. I think he should be\nas pessimistic as possible.\nK: He should say it is very tough.\nF: I said if you say anything with respect to Brezhnev you should be\nvery cool. With regard to anything they ask x us you have to tell us what\nthey would want and certainly not link gas and oil, which is a mistake and I\nsaid I am unhappy about the CLC financing for which he was sorry.\nK: We could get a Presidential direction.\nF: No, I can handle it\nI can get a strong directive out to him.\nK: Okay.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nLaird/Kissinger (Secure Phone)\n1:45;p.m. - 4/13/72\nK:\nHello.\nL:\nHello, Henry, how are you?\nK:\nFine. You been in trouble lately?\nL:\nNot too much. I am in trouble trying to get my books balanced\nover here.\nK:\nWhat's your problem?\nL:\nI may need some help. We are already over $300 million and\nthat is somewhat of a problem. When are you coming back?\nK:\nSaturday noon.\nL:\nSaturday noon. OK, and you are leaving tonight. When you get\nback let's go into that.\nK:\nAll right, but can we keep that concern between you and me for\nthe time being. I don't want any news stories.\nL:\nWell, there probably will be as far as the Hill is concerned. They\nare asking all kinds of questions and some of their figures are\nclose.\nK:\nWhere do they get them?\nL:\nThey get the deployment and the sorties and multiply them out.\nK:\nMel, let's hold the line on this for a week.\nL:\nI'll try.\nK:\nIt's essential.\nL:\nThe other thing is Bill talked to me about the B-52s and I briefed\nhim as much as I 8 ould. I told him they are\nIt would have\na political impact, I am sure and then he wanted to know when we\nwould be going again and I told them we think it will be approved\nby the President but perhaps not until this weekend, if we did go\nagain.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nK:\nRight.\nL:\nI think I do have some approvals over here but if he brings that\nquestion, how will you answer it?\nK:\nExactly the same way you did - that there is no actual approval.\nL:\nVery good, If you stay with that position, OK.\nK:\nYou can be sure of it.\nL:\nI don't want you to pull the rug out from under me because Tom\nand Ken have the idea it is approved.\nK:\nWell, that's not final because I have to check with the President.\nL:\nWell, that's what I thought. That's why I put it to Bill that way.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nThe President\n4/13/72 2:00pm\nP: Are you freeto come over now?\nK: I have Henry Brandon with me, but I could be free.\nP: No, I will have Haldeman come over now and you come in half an hour.\nK: No, much less than that because I have some things that I think you\nwou 1d be interested in.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAdm. Moorer\n4/13/72 3:40 p.m.\nK: I talked to the President and the thing we discussed this morning\nis authorized.\nM: I am moving right out on it.\nK: Either Saturday or Sunday.\nM: All right, it's fine.\nK: Earlier the better from our point of view.\nM: It's a rather complex thing. Got pl a ns but going to let them\nsay how & best to dovetail it.\nK: But sks if it's later than Sunday we may have to cancel it.\nM: You mean later than Sunday night?\nK: Yes.\nM: It won't be later than Sunday night.\nK: We must know the TOT with threxonx some advance warning to\nsome other things.\nM: I can give you that, no problem.\nK: When.\nM: Tomorrow.\nK: You will let Haig know?\nM: Yes, I will. I can guess it now but I want to confirm it.\nK: What's your guess?\nM: Talking about local time. First go will either be 3:00 Saturday or\nSunday Washington time.\nK: We have no great preference whether it's Saturday or Sunday.\nCan make arguments either way.\nM: We'll base it on whether it's efficient.\nK: That's right. I can see some slight advantage to doing it Sunday\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMoorer\n4/13/72 3:40 p.m.\nbut above all, do it when it's right.\nM: Okay.\nK: Good.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Laird\n(Secure Voice)\n4/13/72 4:30pm\nL: I wanted to make sure that it was all right -- everything is go.\nK: Everything is go, and we want it over the weekend. As soon as you know\ndefinitely will you let me know.\nL: We'll go Saturday. That's the way it's tentatively set, but there must\nbe some way to get in touch securely/ in Candaa.\nK: Probably not.\nLS: I can do it indirectly.\nK: Just say your visitor is coming on Saturday.\nL: Good.\nK: And I suppose domestically it doesn't matter when.\nL: No, because it would be in the Sunday papers probably.\nK: Then isn't it better to do it Sunday?\nL: No, let's go when we should.\nK: That's right. Whenever the xammandess commander says.\nL: I think we will go on tac air if there's a chance of a lot of people\nK: Absolutely. That POL thing I sort of liked, but I don't care who\nhits it but if we could get it with the others it might not be a bad idea.\nL: We will be very careful.\nK: Okay, and after that we will get off your back. Okay?\nL: You're not on my back. It's not that. I don't want you to thin,\nthat*s that this is going to win the war.\nK: It may turn out we know what we are doing. Have faithexx faith.\nL: I have faith, but the Vietnamese are doing well.\nK: That's a tribute to you. I think Vietnamization is working and the\nreason\nis because it is working, and the only chance of its\nworking politically is\nin the south.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nLaird\n(Secure Voice)\n4/13/72 4:30pm p. 2\nL:\nin the south impresses the North more than anything we can\ndo.\nK: I agree with you and there is no disagreement nor inconsistency in it.\nL: I think I understand.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nHoward Stein\n4/13/72 4:47 pm\nS: Request from people on the Street if you would speak to the\nbond club any time in April or May.\nK: What is that?\nS: Finance people, bond people primarily.\nK: Do you recommend it?\nS: Yes, I think it would be good if you had time. Firms of\nfinancial people.\nK: In principle my philosophy is if someone I respect as much\nas you recommends something I would do it. April is probably out;\nit would have to be in May. What is it, lunch or dinner?\nS: I think dinner would be better.\nK: I will give you a few dates. Do you ever come through here?\nS: Yes, sometimes.\nK: Please let me know when you do. Should I let your office know\nthe dates?\nS: Yes, you just let them know and we'll try to set it up.\nK: Good.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon:4:55-4/13/72\nMr. Kissinger/\nDave Kraslow\nDK:\nHello Henry.\nK:\nI am running off to Canada. I just wanted you to know we will give\nyou as much information as we can.\nDK:\nI know, I am giving your people a hard time.\nK:\nYou know if I didn't take you serious I wouldn't call you.\nDK:\nIn the context of the message\nIt could not have reached\nHanoi until the invasion was well underway and the battle was going\non full blast.\nK:\nNo, what about the III Region.\nDK:\nYou mean that occurred after?\nK:\nWell after\nDK:\nIt was kind of you to call.\nK:\nYou remember my assessment of the situation on April 1. This was not\nan attempt to head off the attack. It was simply to inform them we\nwould be willing to resume the talks\nDK:\nIs that all the message contained?\nK:\nWell it pointed out that the conditions would remain the same but I\ndon't want to get into the message.\nDK:\nIs it alright for me to say the President would react strongly if the\nenemy went ahead with a large invasion.\nK:\nNo, I wouldn't say that. Dave I am being called to the helicopter.\nI just wanted to call you.\nDK:\nI hope your understand my motives Henry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSecretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger\n4/15/72 11:50\nHAK: I saw the cable from Abrams saying the risks were toogreat\nfor this strike and under these conditions the President can't go\nthrough with it.\nML: We can't callif off now, Henry\ndo you want me to ?\nHAK: We will be struck in Region 3. (from the cable)\nML: We had a similar cable that you knew about yesterday.\nHAK: You said that by scaling down the effort you would have him\naboard.\nML: He is going to do it.\nHAK: I want two names to replace Abrams- who should replace Abrams?\nML: As far as I think--Fred Wyan and I will give you the other later--\nit will be a mistake, though Henry.\nHAK: I will check again with the President to make sure he doesn't\nwant to go ahead. Hold off for 10 minutes and I will talk to him.\nML: As far as going to go, this is the time to go, but if you want, it\nwill be called off.\nHAK: What is this, the Field Commander should do as the Commander\nin Chief says. What about the news stories?\nML:\nI don't know where that came from--probably from-- I don't\nknow. It came out in the New York Times under Beacher's name. I\nhave an investigation going on now on people talking about 52's in this\nbuilding and I have shut them off.\nHAK: In every crisis, the President is left by his people.\nML: Not by me, Henry. I think that story is Frankle, Beacher and\nthe whole NYTimes staff in town.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSecretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger\n4/15/72 11:50 a.m.\nPage 2\nHAK: I will be back to you in 15 minutes.\nML: We are going at 3 o'clock.\nHAK:\nWell, it is a heavy responsibility to overrule his Commander.\nML: will explain this to Abrams the best he can. Abrams wants\nto use the assets in the battle and he thinks that going now doesn't\naffect the battle for six months.\nHAK: He will blame us for his failures.\nML: This won't cause a failure.\nHAK: How is AnLoc--\nML: They are doing well at An Loc--We have the briefers over there\nfor you now, you know\nHAK: Yes. You said by scaling down, everyone will be happy\nML: I didn't say that Henry. Henry that is the position historically of the\nCommanders not to use his assets in battle.\nTELCON 12:05\nSecretary Laird/Mr. Kissinger\nML:\nThese assets have been stood down anyway.\nHAK: We have gone through too many crises that people have stuck\nthe White House with.\nML: I will go out in front if you want me to.\nHAK: I will talk to the President first.\nML: We have stood down the assets. For the next 7 hours you can't\nput them on the line anway.\nHAK: I will call you back. -- He is extremely displeased.\nabout McVee.\nMACV\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMelvin Laird/Mr. Kissinger\nPage 3\nML: You shouldn't pay any attention to MeVee MACV\nHAK: Well, I was told that they would be adjusting the program\nto meet the objections.\nML: The objections have been met.\nHAK: I will call you back\nTELCON\nMelvin Laird/Mr. Kissinger\n12:15 p.m. 4/15/72\nHAK: I have talk with him and he says you might as well go\nahead since you can't use the assets anyway.\nML: That is absolutely the right decision. I wish before the people\nshowed the President these cables on Bunker, etc., to talk tome.\nYou can tell the President that the Secretary of Defense has gone\nwild--I will take the heat.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Rogers\n4/15/72 1:52pm\nR: What I wanted to talk about\nI wanted to be sure we don't have\nour signals crossed and to be sure I know everything going on so I don't\nget into a Cambodia situation. Do you remember the date\n?\nK: Yes, April 1 the message was sent from here and April 2 it was\ndelivered.\nR: And what's the answer to the question\nK: Because Porter was here.\nR: When we say \"private sources¹¹ what do we mean?\nK: Our Military Attache there, but we don't want to say that.\nR: No.\nK: And he gives it to their man.\nR: And why do we say that's private?\nK: That's the wrong word to use -- \"non-delegation sources. 11\nR: But Moorer said \"private\" didn't he?\nK: Mes.\nR: I think I will be questioned about that.\nK: I will\nI don't have the text here now, but I can get it over to you\nby tomorrow.\nR: Okay, do that. I would appreciate it.\nK: I will give you the as exact text so you will know what the situation is.\nThe President was working last night and he is working now on something he will\nsend to you and Mel to make sure both of you follow the same line. It was two\nor three pages the last time I saw it, but he is still scribbling it.\nR: Is anything about the to happen\nI don't want to be in a position\nK: Mel told you what's happening today\nhe was supposed to.\nR: He is going to come to see me; we don't ha ve to talk on the phone about it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Rogers\n4/15/72 1:52pm p. 2\nK: But that is a one-shot affair. But the President is bloodily determined\nand wants to keep an ominous set of options open, including blockade.\nR: What do you think about the SALT talks discontinuance?\nK: I don't think that's connected.\nR: Any reason to think the signals we are giving the world and the Russians\nhave any effect?\nK: Not yet.\nR: Did you convey something to Dobrynin on it?\nK: No, I have not conveyed anything.\nR: Did you see him last week?\nK: I saw him for an odd thing. He wanted to see my films on China and\nhe saw one of them, but my parents were here. He came over -- it was\nbefore the Gridiron thing. It was for all intents andpu purposes social.\nR: But no discussion about this\nthing.\nK: No.\nR: The doees will use this occasion to hit us hard. I'm not concerned,\nbut I want to be sure we all say the same thing.\nK: I won't say anything. I won't see press and I will keep you fully informed\nof anything here.\nR: Okay, well fine Henry. Thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPresident/Mr. Kissinger\n4/15/72\n2:10 p.m.\nRN: I think that Dobrynin may be deliberately away.\nHAK: No we checked and he thought I wasn't coming back until\n6 o'clock.\nRN: I don't want them to be playing games with me.\nHAK: Right, Mr. President.\nRN: One other thing--Call Laird and say that while he is talking\nwith Rogers to strongly urge him not to undercut Laird on this --\nand say that I am most grateful for his support - throw a little\ncrap.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Laird\n4/15/72 3:00pm\nL: You looking for me?\nK: I was calling you at the request of the President.\nL: I went out to brief Bill Rogers.\nK: He wanted to make sure you understood that he is writing a\nmemorandum to both of you about your testimony next week which supports\nyou, and he wants you to hard-line it.\nL: I would like to.\nK: That's what he wants. We have nothing to lose now by being\nferocious.\nL: I have got to talk to you. We have got to keep calm. I can't\ngo 15 different directions.\nK: You're not. No one is asking you to. We want you to go the\ndirection the President wants.\nL: That's what I thought I was doing until I got that call from you\nat noon.\nK: We got a bleeding message from Abe and .the Chairman\nL: The Chairman has nothing to do with you; you knew Abe's\nposition all along.\nK: What was Bill's reaction to your beiefing?\nL: He asked a few questions. Everything is fine, no problem on\nthat. He was okay. He wanted to know whether it could be spared and I\nsaid it could.\nK: Will you let me know when it's done, or under way?\nL: They/aIready are there with some now. In five minutes you will\nhave more. Then it follows up with other stuff.\nK: Right.\nL: We got to keep calm around here. I think I am following the\nPresident's instructions then I get a call like that one atnd it screws it up.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Laird\n4/15/72 3:00pm p. 2\nK: The President's point of view is he hasn't gotten it into Abe's\nhead what he wants.\nL: He wants Abe's assessment, doesn't he?\nK: Yes, but\nL: He got that\ned out yesterday but can I tell him?\nK: I thought when you scaled it down he went along with it.\nL: I will talk to you about it some time.\nK: Are you going to be there in the morning?\nL: Yes, are you going to be there tonight?\nK: No. You want to have breakfast like we did last week?\nL K: Yes.\nK: You, Rush, Moorer and I can meet at 8:15, or is that too early?\nL: No, that's fine.\nK: I will come over there then. We can review where we stand.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAdmiral Moorer/Dr. Kissinger\n3:10 p.m. 4/15/72\nHAK: I can tell you when I showed Abrams message to the President\nhe almost went into orbit.\nAM: I thought he should see it. He has got 364 tac air.\nHAK: The President wants Abrams to know that this is how much\nhe had two weeks ago.\nAM: And he has 45 B-52's and 150 sortees will not lose the war--\nhe has had 3800 (?) already to win it. I didn't concern myself with\nthis message 'cause we were not laying on a back tac air strike up\nthere and no flare up.\nHAK: How is An Loc?\nAM: There is no large hand-to-hand combat. I think they have backed\nof a little bit--they are softening the thing up before making anouther\nground effort. They will have a lot of air fighting. Actually they will\nbe there only 12 hours if the weather permits Tac Air going in.\nHAK: How does the weather look.\nAM: 50/50. There is fog and drizzle--helps us with the 52's, but\nnot the others. The first phase of the strike which is over now, I guess,\n--the conditions are fine for that.\nHAK: Would it have been better tomorrow?\nAM: No, we gave them a choice--Abrams said tomorrow, and then\nchanged his mind. He had the choice of today or tomorrow. He had\nevery consideration. I told him if the weather was not suitable, they\ncould work in\npackage\n.\nHAK: I bet that is what he is going to do.\nAM: No, I am talking about McCain. Abrams does not have ordering\nfor this operation. Tac air was going 8:30 tonight--they have only\n150 air craft and these could be in in 1/2 day.\nHAK: How many targets?\nAM: They have eight or 10 targets--good targets and they are concentrated\nin Haiphong.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nAdm. Moorer/Dr. Kissinger\nPage 2\nAM: The operation is well planned -- and don't worry about what\nAbrams said in the message- it never occurred to me to cancell\non the basis of that cable.\nHAK: Really? Maybe I just over-reacted.\nAM: He recommended slipping it a week when you were in Canada.\nI found out about that 2:00 that night. I said continue operations and he\nwould use\nfor the immediate ground battle. We were giving\n200 tac airs and 36 B-52's - now they have 356 Tac airs and 45 B-52's.\nSo there was no significant degradation of his capability when you get\ndown to it.\nHAK: How does the military situation look to you?\nAM: Generally, as I expected these initiatives moved forward in\nnumber one Region--positions in Guay just partially committed.\nNot much has happened in Region they are working on that road.\nDon't worry about the logistics we can take care of them through\n.\nNorth Vietnamese have come to the conclusion that\nthe most likely success is at Than Luc and this is where all there\neffort is. They have pulled in part 9 and now part 7. They have taken\nall airborne brigades in there. That air lift was done by the South\nVietnamese themselves. I think they are on top of it. There will\nbe some real heavy battle there. They are suffering some real severe\ncasualties.\nHAK: (Asks about person name inaudible)\nAM: He wants to move out to the highland and turn out to the east,\nnorth of the river.\nSan Whey and other operations you asked for.\nWent up to the Haiphong harbor and turned around and came back. They\nare working on the whole area. They think the 121st Division (?) will\ngo by rail then roads because of the harrassament by the destroyers.\nThe North Vietnamese are putting maximum effort into this.\nHAK: I suggested we all have breakfast again tomorrow with Laird\nin his office. Those pictures were interesting.\nAM: The drone photos were not good.\nHAK: I hope they get the tac air up there today.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAdm. Moorer/Mr. Kissinger\nPage 3\nAM: They will do their best. The weather tomorrow will be\nabout the same as today.\nHAK: Then, it wouldn't have made any difference.\nAM: They will do the best they can.\nHAK: When are you getting other destroyers in there.\nAM: Let me give you a table in the morning-- -\nHAK: And any other reinforcements you can get for the President.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAdmiral Moorer/Mr. Kissinger\n3:25 p.m. 4/15/72\nAM: The B-52's are all heading home. The big planes got in there and\ncleared it out and the A 6's helped them on instrument too. They are\nhome free.\nHAK: How many did we fly?\nAM: 18 with 1200 bombs--targets were storage targets--the aircraft\nare out safely.\nHAK: How many A 6's?\nAM: 14---\nHAK: They didn't got after the storage tanks?\nAM: They were disrupting the missiles. They went after some of\nthe trucks - - that is open storage.\nHAK: Good.\nAM: The others will go at 8:30 weather permitting--otherwise\nbefore dawn. No losses.\nHAK: Delighted.\nAM: There can't be any propaganda claims--they got the message with\n1200 bombs--about 66 bombs in each airplane.\nHAK: How many were the F-4's carrying?\nAM: About 12--the F 4's are more accurate.\nHAK: Congratulations.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nJoe Johnson/Mr. Kissinger\n4:00 p.m. 4/15/72\nJJ: Henry, I understand why we are going to miss you.\nHAK: The North Vietnamese boil things upÞeavily in April.\nJJ: The people who are coming from Washington will be Zumwalt\nBrimmer--Senator Mathias, a Representative (doesn't mention)\nand Brock pulled out. Can you give Zumwalt some sense of what\nthis is like and what should be said?\nHAK: Good idea.\nJJ: On the economic side, you may want to talk to Brimmer - -maybe\nnot. Bob Shetzel (sp?) will be there so you may want to mention something\nto Bob--both of those would be most helpful if you could talk to them.\nWhat about the Bangladesh and Palastinians?\nHAK: I think we are coming along well.\nJJ: What are you using us for?\nHAK: I have been preoccupied with Southeast Asia. We are acting\nin a humanitarian manner.\nJJ: I am a member of a committee set up by you and we are to be\nused a little by you--Maury and I wondered what the future would be.\nHAK: Let me think on it. I am sorry to have to miss you.\nJJ: Please send word that you have talked to Zumwalt and Schaetzel.\nHAK: You can count on me contacting Zummwalt.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nLaird\n4/15/72 4:00pm\nL: We are sending reports from time to time -- you're getting\nthem, aren't you?\nK: Yes, it seems to be going very well.\nL: Dan is staying there; he will get in touch with your people and\nlet them know from time to time.\nK: There won't be anything now until 8:30, right?\nL: Right.\nK: Good.\nL: Very good, thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAdmiral Moorer/Mr. Kissinger\n4/15/72 4:50 p.m.\nHAK: One question I have with respect to shelling in Haiphong--\nyou can't hit Haiphong with your ships without danger. Can you shell\nthe harber entrances.\nAM: Oh, hell yes.\nHAK: Can you get that done tonight.\nAM: It is beginning to be day. I can have them shell that point--day light\nor night.\nHAK: Doesn't matter- at night for all I care\nAM: When.\nHAK: I think I would like it all together so that they will get a firm\nmessage.\nAM: Should the weather preclude the one, do it anyway?\nHAK: Yes. What do you think: That would be a good warning that\nwe might want to come in there. You will, now, make every effort\nto get Tac air in there?\nAM: Yes. The only thing that might stop it, (doesn't mention what,\nbut probably weather) because we want results from this. When we\nget our daylight report, we'll know. I am coming here at 7:30 tonight\nto take a look at the report.\nHAK: Tell Laird the President wants that done during the tac air\noperation and I will call him too.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Laird\n4/15/72 4:53 p.m.\nK: One other thing the President wanted done and wanted me to\ncall Moorer. It's not major but while the tac air is going on he wants\nshells dropped on a few ships in fortifications in the estuary.\nL: You mean up there by Haiphong?\nK: Yes, where the thing juts out.\nXL: Against the fortifications?\nK: It doesn't have to be at the exact time, but in the Same 24-hour\nperiod.\nL: This will be over in seven or eight hours.\nK: Good, you can have 24 hours for it.\nL: This can be done.\nWe'll get at that\nAll right.\nK: All right?\nL: Yes, let me get at that, all right.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Laird\n4/15/72 6:10pm\nL: That's on its way.\nK: Oh, the other?\nL: Yes.\nK: The last thing I talked to you?\nL: Yes.\nK: I understand.\nL: I got\nit's gone\nsame thing that went last night --\nsame group.\nK: Right, but this time it will do something.\nL: Yes.\nK: But still don't know about the second wave.\nL: No, but they are continuing to attack.\nK: They haven't started yet, have they?\nL: A-6 started to attack and they are out. But Henry we have got\nto make plans and then stick with them. I am daingxx willing to send any\nkind of signals anyplace, but I think things get panicky.\nK: No, no one is panicky. Just having been through a lot of crises\nwhere everyone turns around afterward and says that wean't what I wanted.\nL: That's not the case as far as I am concerned and I resent that\nand I\nK: No, not you, it was Abrams running around and saying things\nlike that.\nL: Abe doesn't run around and say things like that either and I resent\nthat too.\nK: That's your privilege.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Laird\n4/15/72 6:10 p.m. p. 2\nL: That is my privilege\nI'll talk to you about it in the\nmorning.\nHe knew how his field commander started\nand Al knew that xx too. And if the President didn't know it's because\nyou weren't briefing him properly. He knew that all ålong.\nK:\nhe suffered from the misapprehension that\nL: We were told by that group that came back over that the\nCommander-in-Chief made the decision and that takes precedence\nK: What group?\nL: Tom and Ken.\nK: Right, but then the thought was then that the scaling down had\nbrought everybody aboard.\nL: Who told you that? I didn't tell you that.\nK: It must have been a misinterpretation of what you told me\nwhen I was in Canada.\nL: I didn't tell you that. I just said things were go. I am not\ngoing to talk about things like that on the open phone anyway.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nThe President\n4/15/72 6:15pm\nP: Have you adequately informed the Chinese of this?\nK: No, not yet.\nP: You planning to?\nK: Tomorrow.\nP: After the strike.\nK: Yes.\nP: How?\nK: Send somebody up there.\nP: That's a little late, isn't it?\nK: Well, we just couldn't get to them today. If we do it first\nthing in the morning\nP: Why don't you let them know you want someone to come up?\nK: Right, I will call them immediately.\nP: They may squawk; they may knock off Mansfield and Scott.\nK: I doubt that, I seriously doubt that.\nP: You do?\nK: Yes.\nP: Yeah, I do too. But I think they ought to know.\nK: Okay. Just to let you know, Laird is yelling and screaming\nabout the tough line wewere taking at noon and about everybody panicking.\nand about knocking off the commander. He is blaming me about it so there is\nno problem.\nP: Isn't that a switch. How were we to know it didn't come from him? It\ncame from Defense, didn't it?\nK: No, it came from Abe.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nThe President\n4/15/72 6:15 pm p, 2\nP: But when the message came over did he indicate any dissent?\nK: No, we got a copy from Moorer.\nP: That's my point. Why did they send it?\nK: We asked him to let us have all copies.\nP: I see. I don't care. He wants to be the tough man now?\nK: And he claims we are bugging him too much.\nB: He agreed to do all the things?\nK: Yes, they are being done.\nP: And the naval thing will be pulled off too?\nK: That's on the way.\nP: All right. Well, that one and this one\nand when do you\nexpect to hear from the Russians?\nK: Monday.\nP: Monday?\nK: Right.\nP: Okay.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nVorontsov/Kissinger\n11:40 a.m. - 4/16/72\nV:\nHe is walking outside the Embassy but he will be back by 1:00 o'clock.\nK:\nHe ought to be in good condition.\nV:\nI hope so.\nK:\nI have three things. We would appreciate it if you would send the text\nover of what the Ambassador read to me and could you deliver this to\nColonel Kennedy. He is sitting in Haig's office.\nV:\nI will do that.\nK:\nSecond, I wanted to confirm what I told the Ambassador last night,\nand what I also told you, that this operation is now completed.\nV:\nI see. That's good.\nK:\nAnd the assurance I gave is now in effect until we get a reply from\nthe other side.\nV:\nGood.\nK:\nAnd finally just as he advised me yesterday about our actions - I\ndo not think that it would be very conducive to the success of what\nyou and I are planning. If your reactions could be as calm as the\ncircumstances make possible. It would be very difficult for me\nto be there while protests and demonstrations are going on.\nV:\nI understand your point.\nK:\nNow, one final thing. Commander Howe will be ready to discuss\ntechnical things with you.\nV:\nAll right.\nK:\nShould he call you?\nV:\nYes, he can call me. I will be here in the Embassy and he can come\nhere or I will come to his office.\nK:\nWe will use your interpreters, is that all right?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nV:\nFine, we have very good ones.\nK:\nAll right. Then you will bring that over here.\nV:\nI will take and get it to Colonel Kennedy.\nK:\nI will be difficult to reach but I can be if necessary. I will be at\na christianing. My office knows where to reach me.\nV: Good.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nLaird/Kissinger\n11:45 a.m. - 4/16/72\nK:\nMel, the President is absolutely delighted. He wants to thank you\nand everybody else. He would appreciate it if you would send a\nmessage to whoever you think should get it.\nL:\nI did.\nK:\nOn his behalf?\nL:\nNo, on mine, but I will send one on his behalf.\nK:\nAnd one to the destroyer commander.\nL:\nIt will be going to the destroyer commander and also relayed to\nall hands.\nyou\nK:\nVery good. It was good to see/this morning.\nL:\nFine.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRogers/Kissinger\n3:10 p.m. - 4/16/72\nK:\nHello, Bill.\nR:\nListen, I got your message we sent over to the North Vietnamese\nApril 2 but there was another one we gave to them on the 6th.\nK:\nI will send that right over.\nR:\nDid they give us a written reply?\nK:\nNo, they did not.\nR:\nWell, at that time they agreed to meet on April 13.\nK:\nThey did not reply to that. It was just assumed. They did not\nreply to that.\nR:\nWell, as I understand it what they did was delay meeting for two\ndays, then when we gave them the withdrawal notice they agreed\nto meet on April 13.\nK:\nOh yes, yes, on the day we gave them the withdrawal notice they\nsaid orally they would meet on April 13.\nR:\nHow does the date April 20th get into the picture?\nK:\nWhat we said was we would be prepared to resume on the 13th\nwhich did imply the 20th.\nR:\nOn a\n?\nK:\nYes,\nat that. But I will get that right over.\nR:\nBut on the business of Russia situation, if anyone has any word\nfrom Dobrynin let me know.\nK:\nIf we get any word here we will send them over to you. I think the\nway to handle it we should make a formal protest, admit it and\napologize.\nR:\nI can do it at State.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nK:\nInvestigate it?\nR:\nNo\n.\nK:\nI am open to that.\nR:\nMy present inclination is to say we have no idea; we didn't know\nwhat hit your ship whether it was\naircraft\nin\nSAM.\nThey had\nor schrapnel but that is our risks that\nwe have to take, but this is a pretty tough position.\nK:\nI think we can say it was unintentional but we want to point out.\nR:\nWe can also say we weren't sure what it was that hit you but if\nit was through anything we were involved in that hit you, we regret\nit. But this is a risk we take.\nK:\nLet us agree on this. If Dobrynin comes and attempts to deliver\na note we will send him to you. Second, on these talking points\nfor the Congressional leaders that the President\n.\nThe one I mentioned to you - maybe we should say we won't have\na volatile foreign policy.\nR:\nI don't like that and I don't like singling out President Kennedy.\nK:\nIt isn't in our interest to get a huge human outcry. I talked to the\nPresident and he agreed to mute them.\nR:\nThe one ;thing he doesn't mention was whether we would reintroduce\nground troops. I talked to him last night and he said we should say\nthat was one of the questions of further bombing we just leave open.\nK:\nAbsolutely.\nR:\nWell, I don't think there is much else. They are going to make as\nmuch as they can politically out of it so I will be under attack.\nThe one thing we have not done is whether we will have a public\nbriefing on what the North Vietnamese have done in South Vietnam.\nK:\nYou mean in terms of what?\nR:\nI am thinking about giving this committee, in public, a report on what\nthe enemy has done.\nK:\nWell, maybe Mel ought to do it if it is on the\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON (tape)\nSecretary Rogers\n4/16/72, 4:30 p.m.\nK: Bill.\nR: You've seen this protest I guess that was delivered to Beam.\nK: No, I haven't.\nR: Yeah, well, they've made a protest and they say that four of\ntheir ships were hit. They do not make any claim that there were dead\nor wounded among the Soviet employees; they say there were dead and\nwounded among the workers of the Port.\nK: Yes, that's what intercepts indicate, yes.\nR: The tone of the protest seems to me to be milder than the ones\nthat they made in '67 and '68, and it's a lower level. In that case the\nprotest was made to Rusk himself, I guess in both of those cases.\nK: Yeah.\nR: And this is a protest to Beam by their Deputy Foreign Minister,\nGobolev (?).\nK: That's pretty mild so we shouldn't be too provocative in our reply\nR: No, I think we've got to tone down our answer.\nK: Right, I agree.\nR: And I'm preparing one now to send over; I don't know as we have\nto rush getting it back.\nK: I don't think we should reply until tomorrow Bill.\nR: I think that's right.\nK: That's pretty encouraging, don't you think.\nR: I think so, yeah. Just a minute here. TASS has also put out\na statement. The statement TASS puts out is a little tougher; it says the\nSoviet people rathfully condemn these U.S. acts of aggression, and so forth.\nK: Yeah well of course they've got to do something like that.\nR: But I think in reading, comparing this protest with the others it\ndoesn't accuse us of intentionally and deliberately doing this as far as they' re\nconcerned. And the general rhetoric is somewhat softer, so\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Rogers\nK: I think we should give a fairly low-key reply Bill. I don't think\nwe should confront them that way when we are after all somewhat in the\nwrong in the actual act.\nR: I agree. Well, I think what we can do is do is pretty much along\nthe lines of the last one. We don't tx want to be more app apologetic than\nthe last time because I think that XXX last time was a direct hit. I think\nwe can\nwe're not sure of course whether these were hits by American\nplanes or whether it was misfiring on the part of the North Vietnamese.\nK: Yeah.\nR: Well anyway, we'll have something drafted to send over.\nK: Good, thank you Bill.\nR: Right, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nGerard Smith/Kissinger\n9:45 a.m. - 4/17/72\nK:\nHello. Jerry?\nS:\nHenry, can you hear me?\nK:\nYes, I can hear you.\nS:\nOur\nman had word that Semyenov was in Moscow and\nhe may\nthe Haiphong bombing. The Soviets say\nthat he left for Moscow Saturday but they want to stick with their\ntheory\nthat he is in Helsinki. If AP finds this out, the Soviets\nare not going to be able to keep up their fiction that he is in Helsinki.\nI thought you better be aware of it because it might be embarrassing\nafter the bombings in Southeast Asia.\nK:\nWe can correct it, can't we?\nS:\nI think so.\nK:\nI wouldn't correct it until it becomes an issue.\nS:\nAll right. I just wanted you to be aware that this may be\nK:\nRight, OK. Thank you for calling, Jerry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nJoe Kraft/Kissinger\n10:24 a.m. - 4/17/72\nJK:\nGood morning, Henry, how are you?\nHK:\nOK. I have got to run off in a few minutes but I wanted to call\nyou while I had a little time.\nJK:\nI have the impression the Russians keep slipping the challenge\nback - away from confrontation.\nHK:\nI don't know.\nJK:\nI mean the TASS statement looked to me to be moderate.\nHK:\nI think that is true.\nJK:\nI assume they are directing the question of what ship was sunk.\nHK:\nI think that is true, too.\nJK:\nSo my next question is how far do you have to go before this\nbefore you engaged them?\nHK:\nWell, you can split the question into two parts. Slipping the\nchallenge to a public confrontation doesn't mean you are not\nnegaging them. Do you see what I mean?\nJK:\nYes, you are.\nHK:\nI am not saying anything. I am just making an analytical point.\nJK:\nOn the other hand, I do have the impression from all the documents\nI\nthey feel the slip down the road is because they can't\nimagine that when it comes to a final crunch they are going to\ncome down on our side. Can you imagine that?\nHK:\nNo, but this is not the issue. That is beyond reason but there\nare many stages inbetween.\nJK:\nAre we on a track now - a planned series of events and happenings' ?\nHK:\nWell, we are on a track but it might not be the most obvious one.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nJK:\nNot a compulsive track.\nHK:\nYou know you shouldn't assume that we are going to have a\nrun to Haiphong.\nJK:\nEverything everybody is talking about is a\nHK:\nJoe, I think we are on no compulsory track.\nJK:\nI would love to be given the task of breaking that barricade.\nI can organize a flotilla to run that\nHK:\nHow heroic you are!\nJK:\nNot breaking it but you can see a Japanese ship, a Swedish\nship\nHK:\nI get your point. 1\nJK:\nYou know when we had lunch I asked you about the McCloskey\nstatement about the Russians. I had the impression that was\ngoing to be the last statement before.\nthen Laird spoke\nup. Did something happen inbetween?\nHK:\nWell, I think the thing crystallized between that and the Laird\nstatement.\nJK:\nThe Laird statement was not out of order?\nHK:\nNo.\nJK:\nHow about the Vietnamese offer today?\nHK:\nWell, you know it's a fairly cynical maneuver and what we are\ntrying to avoid is to get everything on-the-record again. Some\nthings like that need to be in a proper framework. We can be\naccused of a lot of things but not about not wanting negotiations.\nJK:\nHenry, I think you could not be accused of that as long as you had\nkept that\nwith Le Duc Tho.\nHK:\nThey broke that off.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 3 -\nJK:\nYou had a real dialogue going with Xuan Thuy.\nHK:\nJoe, it's entirely up to you what you write. I would not\npropose that line for a while but this I tell you as a friend.\nJK:\nBut it's an appropriate question\nHK:\nIt is an appropriate question. I just can't answer it.\nJK:\nRight and I shouldn't jump to conclusions.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nZiegler/Kissinger\n12:02 p.m. - 4/17/72\nZ:\nI don't know what you did to him (Rogers) yesterday, but he\nsure hung in there this morning.\nK:\nGood.\nZ:\n(Ziegler read from the wires the reports of Secretary Rogers'\ntestimony this morning.)\nK:\nGood, that will charge up his people. Very good.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nWalter Kissinger/Kissinger\nAfternoon - 4/17/72\nWK:\nI have a man working for me who I think is first rate as an\ninterpreter. He used to be Reischauer's interpreter when he\nwas Ambassador. If you are reaching for someone for your\ntrip to Japan\nHK:\nI have told the Japs one more leak in the newspapers about my\nnot being cooperative and I won't come.\nWK:\nYes, I have reading some of the articles.\nThe folks had a\nnice time with you. You really laid it on for them.\nHK:\nWell, you know that comes with the job.\nWK:\nThey are coming out here tomorrow. We have our annual meeting.\nHK:\nOh, good.\nWK:\nI hope to see you fairly soon. I am leaving for Europe for about\n10 days about\nbut if you come up in the next two weeks\nI will see you.\nHK:\nHow long will you be in Europe?\nWK:\nJust a week or 8 days. If we can't get together before, then after\nwe are both a little freer of traveling.\nHK:\nYes, I go to Japan at the end of the first week of May. Give me\na ring.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nLloyd Shearer/Kissinger\n12:45 p.m. - 4/17/72\nK:\nLloyd, how are you, you devil?\nS:\nDon't call me a devil.\nK:\nAll I can tell you Lloyd is if I can do this on a girl who I try to\navoid, think what I can do to one I really pursue.\nS:\nHenry, I want you to know one thing. This is one of the great\ncoincidences of all time. Do you know who is on the other line?\nK:\nWho?\nS:\nAnne.\nK:\nWho's that?\nS:\nYour wife. Can you imagine two Kissingers calling at one time!\nK:\nWhat does she want with you?\nS:\nYou might as well know the truth; we're having a love affair.\nShe said we will probably elope next week to Manchester, New\nHampshire.\nK:\nWith who ?\nS:\nWith me.\nK:\nWhat are you going to discuss with her ?\nS:\nNothing.\nK:\nOK.\nS:\nAnyway, how do you feel ?\nK:\nFine.\nS:\nWhen are you coming out?\nK:\nNot before June.\nS:\nReally ?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nK:\nYes.\nS:\nDo you have Danielle's telephone number?\nK:\nI never had it.\nS:\nYou haven't seen this marvelous book, have you?\nK:\nYes.\nS:\nWhat do you think of it?\nK:\nI hope she wins the Pulitzer prize for fiction.\nS:\nThat's great - can I use that line?\nK:\nSure you can.\nS:\nI see your debriefing all my friends who come back from Hanoi\nbefore I have a chance.\nK:\nLike who?\nS:\nSy Hearst.\nK:\nYes, I like\nS:\nAre you going to Moscow?\nK:\nDo I think the Moscow summit is on? Yes, I think the Moscow\nsummit is going to wrk out all right.\nS:\nOK. I asked your friend Ron Ziegler if I can go along.\nK:\nWould you go along?\nS:\nI would like to but we will see what they say. Anyway I was trying\nto get you together with Jack Anderson.\nK:\nWell, when I come out I would love to meet him.\nS:\nBut you are not coming out until June.\nK:\nWell, in principle I would be glad to meet him here.\nS:\nWell, he is now a valuable lecturer. I thought you guys would be\ncoming out sooner.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 3 -\nK:\nThat was the plan at one point.\nS:\nOK. I have things I wanted to talk to you about and I don't know\nif this is a good time, but about 7 months ago you mentioned that\nyou would like to be judged on Vietnam on what happened within\nthe next 6 months and that doesn't seem fair in that respect to\nhold someone to what they said 6 months ago.\nK:\nYou are very nice.\nS:\nI don't think anyone is responsible for what happened. For some\ngood reason you were more optimistic than you are now. I don't\nthink anybody should be held to this statement.\nK:\nWell, I think to a certain point. I told you there is nothing.\nLet's just wait a bit.\nS:\nHow about through November?\nK:\nYou know I just don't want to give any more time periods.\nI think we have achieved something but not everything.\nS:\nWell, I used to think that I was fairly well into that situation but\nnow I ha ve my own doubts. There is a limit to a man's pain\nthreshold; but that limit is death.\nYou have to kill\na lot of them but then what have you got?\nK:\nYes.\nS:\nDoes that seem valid to you?\nK:\nWell, that's not our policy.\nS:\nNo, but that is in effect what has happened. That's what happens\nin any war, Henry.\nK:\nThen you would have to say the Russians should have surrendered\nto the Germans they would have saved a lot of lives too.\nS:\nHenry, take care of yourself. And come see us.\nK:\nGood. I will be in touch.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRogers/Kissinger\nMid-afternoon - 4/17/72\nK:\nI just wanted to tell you your testimony - what I saw and read\nwas outstanding.\nR:\nIt worked out pretty well. It's a repulsive committee to testify\nagainst.\nK:\nYes, but you were on the attack. I thought you were one of the\nmost effective I have ever seen you.\nR:\nFulbright was really on the defensive.\nThank you very much.\nK:\nThe reports from Haig are pretty good from MR-1 1.\nR:\nIt would seem to me we would be able to hold out there.\na logistics problem.\nK:\nActually I think they made a mistake in kicking this off.\nR:\nI think MR-1 is better for us be cause it's so much closer. If\nwe knock them over this time we can end it all.\nK:\nThat's what I think and actually if we can slow down the bombing\nat least until the 20th.\nR:\nI think we have made our point. At any rate, thank you very much\nfor calling.\nK:\nRight and Congratulations!\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPresident/Kissinger\n3:02 p.m. - 4/17/72\nP:\nHenry, I think it would be a good project for someone on your\nstaff\nbut a good counterploy would be to have a number\nof our Republican friends in the House and Senate put in a final\nresolution containing the condemnation of the invasion of South\nVietnam by North Vietnam. Do you get what I mean?\nK:\nYes.\nP:\nApparently Rogers said something like this before them this\nmorning: \"I heard all of you condemning what we are doing but\nnothing about what the enemie's doing. 11 We support the decision\nof the President to have South Vietnam defend themselves.\nK:\nFine, we will get something drafted.\nP:\nWhen you get the draft, send it to MacGregor.\nK:\nI will give it to MacGregor.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAdmiral Moorer/Kissinger (Secure Phone)\n4:08 p.m. - 4/17/72\nK:\nHello.\nM:\nSay, Henry, I was coming over with Laird when he comes over\nto see the President.\nK:\nRight. I will be there.\nM:\nIs there anything I should prepare?\nK:\nNo, he just wanted to have a general toak with you.\nM:\nGood, I wanted to know if I have anything to prepare.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nThe President\n4/17/72 6:25pm\nP: I wanted to check -- tonight you're going out.\nK: Yes, I'm going to have dinner with Denis Hamilton, the publisher\nof the London Sunday Times.\nP: Oh fine, yes.\nK: But I won't do it until 8:00.\nP: Okay, fine. Where will you be till 8:00? Are you at home now?\nK: No, I'm in my office.\nP: Tomorrow night I think I will go to Camp David. But for our\nmeeting I suppose we can have it in the afternoon as well as the morning.\nK: Any time Mr. President. You mean the afternoon Wednesday?\nP: Yes.\nK: That's easy.\nP: There isn't anything your people have to do over.\nK: I could give you some books tomorrow night.\nP: I think it would be good for me to go away for a day.\nK: Absolutely.\nP: Because of pressures of other things.\nK: Absolutely, very good.\nP: When will Haig be back?\nK: If you have a meeting Wednesday afternoon Haig can probably be\npresent.\nP: Good.\nK: That's when he's coming homw. And I have got a dinner Wednesday\nnight, just to be seen.\nP: And I told Haldeman we have got you covered beautifully. No one\nwill know a damn thing.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nThe President\n4/17/72 6:25 pm þ. 2\nK: And I will have taken my staff up to work with you at Camp David.\nP: Send your staff up for the weekend.\nK: No, the staff I'm taking with me.\nP: Oh, what will we do with Haig? He should go to Camp David.\nK: He should be here Friday to cover for me and then go up Saturday.\nP: Yes, he can go up Saturday to meet with us. I think we've got it\ncovered.\nK: Absolutely.\nP: And Henry, don't let that Times guy run you off your course.\nK: My trip has only one advantage -- it gives us a hole card in this\ncountry.\nP: It gives us an advantage in other ways. But I have a thought I want\nto discuss with you. Perhaps if we finish in time. Your dinner is at 8:00?\nK: Yes, but I can put it off.\nP: No, go to that.\nWhat's your schedule\ntomorrow?\nK: I am seeing the Chinese in the afternoon.\nP: Whatever happend, there is to be no looking back, no second\nguessing. Many will say 'if we hadn't hit Haiphong' or 'if we hadn't hit those\nRussian ships. I\nK: It isn't enough for us to hold in the south\nP: That's right. They have no interest in settling it otherwise.\nK: They'd have no interest in settling and they will drive us crazy all summer.\nP: Well we have given them an interest at any rate, Did they send over a\nnavigator?\nK: Yes, and a co-pilot.\nP: For your plane or the advance plane?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nThe President\n4/17/72 6:25pm p. 3\nK: My plane.\nP: Does the advance plane have one too? Has it gone?\nK: It has gone, but it is flying regular commercial routes.\nP: They must not cancel it. But if they cancel your trip it will be\na hell of a signal.\nK: I told them this is our last chance; next week you have to make\nirrevocable decisions on Vietnam.\nP: And we must not be in a position of their cancelling the Summit.\nWe have got to cancel it first. The Polish thing coming out today was a good\nthing, don't you think?\nK: Excellent thing.\nP: It confused everybody.\nK: Excellent thing\nP: Okay, good.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nDave Kraslow\n4-17-72; 7:00 p.m.\nHK: I will do my damnedest tomorrow.\nDK: How are my chances tomorrow?\nHK: You will be one of the only newsmen -- good chance in the afternoon. The\nPresident may go to Camp David.\nDK: Max's piece -- did you give him a lot\nHK: Would you believe it if I told you I had not read it yet. I talked to Max for\nthree minutes - less time than I talked to you. I talked to you longer.\nDK: I don't see how he got so much out of that.\nHK: May I read it -- let me read it first. You owe me one piece of information.\nThe Democrat - the guy you told me who arranged this China overture.\nDK: He's a former government official who was considered seriously as an\nintermediary before the President\nHK: Oh, that's not unreasonable. The Democrat himself did not know he was\nbeing considered.\nDK: Yes he did.\nHK: That's not right.\nDK: I will tell you who the source was, Manach.\nHK: Manach has put out more bullshit -- really now. I will do my damnedest\nto see you and I will not give any long analysis to anyone.\nDK: Max has a very good analysis.\nHK: Let me read it maybe I did lead him in that direction. I read your piece\nand I think it is fair enough.\nDK: You mean the one this morning.\nHK: Yes.\nDK: Shall I call Coleman now.\nHK: Call Coleman in the morning.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nDave Kraslow\n4-17-72; 7:00 p.m.\n- 2 -\nDK: I would like you to explain what went into this decision.\nHK: The reason I am so reluctant to see you is because you are so damn good.\nYou always ask the right questions that I can't answer. Perhaps in two or three\nweeks the answer may become apparent.\nDK: I will call Coleman in the morning.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAdm. Moorer\n(Secure Voice)\n4/18/72 8:20am\nK: I notice for the second day we haven't hit in the north and now we're\nputting out stories that there are limite we have authorized.\nM: I never put these out. I don't know who put them out. I know there\nare limits. But I talked to Johnny Vogt and told him we have to getu up there.\nK: Why haven't they?\nM: Because they have been using their assets down south. But Haig\nhas done his work and I think you will see a change. I understand your problem\nbut I have got to testify before Fulbright today. I would like to get to you on that.\nBut I understand what you want.\nK: Especially tonight and tomorrow night. They they can slacken off\na bit. In fact fidir the rest of the week it would be good if they did slacken off,\nbut for the next two nights we would like a real blow. I mean within the existing R\nauthorities, of course.\nM:\nX\nI understand.\nK: I will see you at WSAG.\nM: No, I have to go to Fulbright.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSecretary Laird\n4/18/72 8:25 a.m.\nL: I just have a few dirty questions here.\nK: I see you have been opposed to everything in the New York Times today.\nL:\nK: I know.\nL: That goes back to some of these turn-downs in March. You can't\nstop that though.\nK: It's not a good story.\nL: It's a lousey story.\nK: What I am concerned about is the stories out of Saigon that we have given\norders to stop it.\nL: I will tend to that too. We can watch the 52s, but we're getting in\ntouch with them now.\nK: I don't want to put out limits.\nL: Hell no. That story of Parks is particularly bad.\nK: It makes us look weak.\nL: Did you read the story of Parks?\nK: No.\nL: It's real bad.\nK: What does it say?\nL: I'll have Dan bring it over.\nK: We don't want to look like we are backing off.\nL: Hell no.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMosbacher/Kissinger\n11:53 a.m. - 4/18/72\nM:\nHenry.\nK:\nBud, we need you to help us with some things. I would like to send\nWinston Lord over fairly soon to explain it to you.\nM:\nOK, fine.\nK:\nIn the next 45 minutes.\nM:\nThat's fine. I have a 12:30 appointment with your friend, the\nSecretary, so if he could get here a little sooner or even afterwards.\nK:\nMaybe 15 to 1:00 or 1 o'clock. Can you produce gifts quickly\nand quietly.\nM:\nI think so. We always have a stockpile here, perhaps not as\nimaginative as if we had more time, but we will have some things.\nK:\nGood.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRush/Kissinger (Secure Phone)\n12:30 p.m. - 4/19/72\nK:\nKen, one thing I neglected to tell you this morning - we would like\nto get as many supplies as we can into South Vietnam during the\nnext week. Even if there is a negotiation that leads to a reduction\non both sides. Can you work with Moorer on that?\nR:\nYes I can, Henry. We have a lot there now.\nK:\nYes I know. We want to get a little insurance over there.\nR:\nOK, I will do that.\nK:\nI told the President I don't know what we would do without you there.\nR:\nWell, Henry.\nK:\nOK, Ken.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELEC ON\nRichard Valeriani\n4/18/72 1:30 p.m.\nV: I'm over here full time now.\nK: Yes, I know.\nV: And we are doing an hour-long special tonight. I wanted to know\nif I can come to talk to you today about the decision and atmosphere.\nK: Actually no, I am going off for the better part of the afternoon.\nV: I am especially interested in the attitude toward the Soviet Union.\nK: What about it?\nV: Why the emphasis on the Soviet supply of arms.\nK: Because without it the offensive couldn't have occurred.\nV:\nbefore the summit?\nK: Ask yourself this question. If the roles were reversed and the U.S.\npoured arms in and confronted an army in which the Soviet Union has forces and\ngave them substantial offensive capability and that capability was used in a massive\ninvation in which 70, 000 Russians were taken prisoner, everybody would say\nthet America has taken an action for which it must take responsibility.\nV: You have no\nthat this will sour the atmosphere of the summit?\nK: If it had succeeded would that have soured the atmosphere of the summit?\nV: Yes I would think.\nK: We are trying to give them a sense of responsibility.\nV:\noffensive responsibility?\nK:\nyes. Nothakx Know that we didn't know what they would\nin one blow.\nV: What is the message you are trying to get to the Russians? To knock it off?\nK: Well, it is hard to imagine that you can have a serious relaxation\nof tension and constant challenges. This is not to be ascribed to the White House\nsources.\nV: I understand that sir. I wanted to understand this in relation to the summit.\nK: It's not that overwhelming; I just wanted to point it out.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n2:48 p.m. - 4/18/72\nD:\nHello.\nK:\nAnatol, two things. On the lend lease negotiation you people are\nlinking the two - financial and MFN which our delegation is not\nauthorized to do at this point. Our original proposal shows you\ncombine it to the sums and so forth. You and I understand that\nwhen Patolovich comes here you will link them together\nD:\nYou see, Henry, while in Moscow they give it as a matter of\nprinciple to link it in a way\nwhat you mention. And I am\nprepared to tell them once more. Patolovich will be here on the\n7th of May so I am sure he will discuss it privately with\nK:\nI am trying to get these present discussions off a stalemate course.\nLoo, here we are prepared to look at this matter with an under-\nstanding rather than say, \"No, we are not going to discuss it. \"\nSo just think of a kind of phrse.\nD:\nK:\nAnd then you will talk amount.\nD:\nAnd then we will discuss but they have instructions because if you\nlook about the matter of lend lease.\nwo we are under the\nbut they would like to have the report in Moscow\nthe Americans said when the discussions will be\nThey will not ask that negotiations.\njust remember we just\nuse two phrases about it. The problems of lend lease we are going\nto discuss. You know how to do it. There is no objections in\nregard to the discussions.\nK:\nRight. Now you are coming with me tomorrow?\nD:\nYes, I am going to go with you.\nK:\nI am going to be away from my office.\nD:\nwould like me to go together with you.\nK:\nI will have to make certain arrangements so that you will not be.\nD:\nI will be in touch with you but you will not be in tomorrow?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nK:\nYes, I will be in tomorrow. Call me in the morning and we will\nwork out the arrangements. My suggestion is to go to Vorontsov's\nhouse and we pick you up there.\nD:\nBut I have some luggage but I could bring it from there.\nK:\nCan I pick you up in one of our cars?\nD:\nOf course, it is no problem. Good, so I will have Vorontsov\nget in touch with your man.\nK:\nOK, we will discuss it tomorrow.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAdmiral Moorer/Kissinger (Secure Phone)\n3:42 p.m. - 4/18/72\nK:\nTom, I have been talking to the President about what we were\ndiscussing this morning and we want to make sure we understand\neach other. We want a normal effort unless it\nfor\na technical situation.\nM:\nTonight and.\nK:\nTonight and tomorrow night. 150 sorties and then after that step\nit down to 100.\nM:\n100 every night through Sunday night.\nK:\nWell, maybe lay off one night and then a little less after that.\nM:\nOK.\nK:\nAfter Sunday do whatever you think you ought to do, but do that\nwithin your own authorities. Don't talk to people about it.\nM:\nRight.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAdmiral Moorer\n(Secure Vodre)\n4/18/72 8:30pm\nK: We obviously want to stop the stories of restraints on bombing.\nCan't we get these military people out there to shut up?\nM: I will do my best. I don't know where the leaks are coming from\nthough. I have personally insisted this is not the case.\nK: You think there is some backchanneling going on?\nM: On this particular subject I don't think so. On other things yes\nbut x on this particular subject no.\nK: But you think Haig got the word across whom to listen to?\nM: That's what Johnny Vogt told me last night. He thought\nthe message had been preperly delivered and absorbed.\nK: Good. If he can do something tonight or tomorrow night then he can\nslacken off again. He doesn't have to make an abnormal effort.\nM: I've got to talk to you.\nK: I'm leaving at 3:00. Can you come over before then?\nM: Where are you going?\nK: New York.\nM: I am too.\nK: Can you see me before than?\nM: I'll try.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAdmiral Moorer\n(Secure Vodice)\n4/18/72 8:30pm\nK: We obviously want to stop the stories of restraints on bombing.\nCan't we get these military people out there to shut up?\nM: I will do my best. I don't know where the leaks are coming from\nthough. I have personally insisted this is not the case.\nK: You think there is some backchanneling going on?\nM: On this particular subject I don't think so. On other things yes\nbut X on this particular subject no.\nK: But you think Haig got the word across whom to listen to?\nM: That's what Johnny Vogt told me last night. He thought\nthe message had been preperly delivered and absorbed.\nK: Good. If he can do something tonight or tomorrow night then he can\nslacken off again. He doesn't have to make an abnormal effort.\nM: I've got to talk to you.\nK: I'm leaving at 3:00. Can you come over before then?\nM: Where are you going?\nK: New York.\nM: I am too.\nK: Can you see me before than?\nM: I'll try.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAmb. Rabin\n4/19/72 10:03 a. m.\nR: I don't want to bother you as a matter of fact, but I wanted to know\nK: You guys planned this well; you're diverting my attention.\nR: It might be. I understand at present there is no need for any talks in\ncontinuation of what we held in the past.\nK: I have interrupted these talks. I would like, just for my own guidance\non the conditions which you outlined (only for the President and me)\nbut you\ncan always assume when you do not hear from me there is nothing affecting you\ngo ing on.\nR: Fine because tomorrow I will have the Foreign Minister here. I would\nlike to know how to behave.\nK: There's been no discussion on this subject since you went away, on the\nground that conditions are not propitious to discuss such delicate matters.\nR: I will be out of town nex t week.\nK: Back when?\nR: A week from this coming Saturday.\nK: That is all right.\nR: As you remember, we discussed meetings that will take place after\nthe Summit.\nK: What meetings?\nR: Issue of\n.\nK: Oh yes.\nR: From my point of view I doubt if you will find time to cover the issue.\nK: This will be done.\nR: I would be grateful.\nK: It will not only be covered but it will be covered favorably.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAmb. Rabin\n4/19/72 10:03 a.m. p. 2\nR: Four, India presses Israel to continue selling arms to India.\nDo you want me to approach the State Department on this? I can wait ; it\nis not urgent.\nK: Delay it because at this moment the President is unhappy with\nthem. Can you delay till you get back?\nR: Oh of course.\nK: A couple of weeks?\nR: I will try\nK: And on the other matter, as I told you, there will hever be a.\nconversation of which you are not informed. But I should be armed in case\nit starts again.\nR: I just now get a cable in which I was authorized to tell you\nexactly what was the\nmap?\n.\nI just got the cable now.\nK: I don't need it till you get back; there's no chance of my getting\ninto it until you do.\nR: When you need to know, I have the authorization to tell you.\nK: On all fronts or just there?\nR: No.\nK: That's the only place I need it,\nR: Relation of Egypt to Israel. Last issue, I talked to you alone\nabout a certain subject\nto Max Fisher and his friend, the former Attorney\nGeneral\n,\ncertain question in the context of the Summit. I think I\nhave found a way how to tackle it and reduce tension here.\nK: Excellent, I appreciate that, If I have a, chance to see you this\nweek I will do so, but we have no urgent business now,\nR: No, no urgent business.\nK: And I don't push you when there is no need,\nR:\non television and radio today.\nAbout moving closer to Saigon.\nK: Oh baloney. They are not beseiging ? An Loc now and some\nof the units are moving south to go around it, But at the same time it means\nthey are thinning themselves out and coming into areas of concentration.\nThey had three divisions against one poor one at An Loc and they couldn't\ntake it, Now with two against a good division it doesn't seem to me that they\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAmb. Rabin\n4/19/72 10:30 a.m. p. 3\ncan do much better. Haig was just there; he says in the north we have\ncontrol.\nR: That is obvious to me.\nK: And in the south it's somewhat more fluid. But it's hard to see\nhow they can achieve a victory unless we make a major mistake.\nR: And is the limit mid-May?\nK: Yes in the Saigon area definitely. If they are terribly lucky\nthey can't pull too many surprises in terms of deployments now be-\ncause we know where they are. You can't tell when a South Vietnamese division\nwill collapxe, but\nR: None of them have so far,\nK: No, but you can't prove that they won't.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRush/Kissinger (Secure Phone)\n12:30 p.m. - 4/19/72\nK:\nKen, one thing I neglected to tell you this morning - we would\nlike to get as many supplies as we can into South Vietnam during\nthe next week. Even if the stocks are high now and even if there is\na negotiation that leades to a reduction on both sides. Can you\nwork with Moorer on that?\nR:\nYes, I can, Henry. We have a lot there now.\nK:\nYes, I know. We want to get a little insurance over there.\nR:\nOK, I will do that.\nK:\nI told the President I don't know what we would do without you\nthere.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nJavits/Kissinger\n12:35 p.m. - 4/19/72\nK:\nI was sorry I had to cancel the breakfast.\nJ:\nI had something that couldn't wait that I need to discuss with you.\nIt is on this committee of 9 on NATO that looked so promising.\nI have a problem. Unless you advise me to go through Rogers\nthis is what I would like. The man they wanted to give me was a\nGaullist who would ruin my committee. I came to an agreement\nwith a Gaullist who was a senior member on this organization\nto accept Louis Jokes (sp. ?) He went back and told us Louis\nJokes said no. I am suspicious of that. I think he just said that\nbecause I turned down his guy. In the meantime in order to bring\nthat matter to\nI got Taney (sp. ?) to say he would serve\nhere on my\nI could go to the highest government levels,\nwhich is why I'm calling you, to get me Joyes because he is\nacceptable to his people and me. Failing that I could go ahead\nwith Taney. If I am going after Joye$ I know I don't have a prayer\nwithout some help.\nK:\nWhat form of help?\nJ:\nI think if a communique could be sent to whoever you talk to in the\nFrench Government that it is desireable to have JoXes - more\ndesireable to have Joxes - it could do it.\nK:\nWell, we will do that.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMoorer/Kissinger (Secure Phone)\n4/19/72 - 5:10 p.m.\nK:\nTom, you are going on that TUNWA thing tomorrow night?\nM:\nMy instructions are to do the best I can tomorrow night but not\nlater than Friday night.\nK:\nRight. We would prefer tomorrow night.\nM:\nYes, everybody knows that. I told them 2 or 3 hours ago.\nK:\nGood. What would affect it?\nM:\nJust getting all the operations coordinated. I think probably they\ncan do it. Usually the situation is that they give them about 26\nhours to get ready. There are two targets suitable for the B-52's.\nIt is just the coordination. I think they can do it all right.\nK:\nWell, you know if it's got to be Friday, it's got to be Friday.\nM:\nWe will do our best.\nK:\nThe President was wondering if there is any way we can break\nthat channel into Haiphong by using concrete blocks or something?\nM:\nWe have several plans: We can have an old submarine in there\nblown up all the\n.\nThis way the ships couldn't navigate.\nOne of the problems you have to look at in the situation is the silts\nup. If the Red River comes down that channel and the silts up it\nwould be difficult to do with concrete blocks.\nK:\nYou get the idea. Something to make shipping more difficult.\nM:\nOne of the things we could do is remove all the\nI will\n-\ntalk to the flight commander. The other thing we had in mind\nis send some kind of ship in the channel.\nK:\nWhat would you do with the crew of the ship?\nM:\nWell we would have to take them off. I have got a couple of plans.\nK:\nWell that has possibilities. Just find a ship that would keep them\nbusy for a couple of months.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nM:\nYes, I will.\nK:\nWe would need it by next week.\nM:\nI will have the plans by then.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELEC ON\nSecretary Laird\n(Secure Voice)\n4/19/72 5:03 p.m.\nL: i wanted to just visit with you for a. few minutes about\nget to start addressing these costing figures. You didn't want to start\naddressing them till this week. Now we are operating on a. deficiency\nIt's not important, but it is important from the standpoint of where we end\nup at the end of this Fiscal Year. Thenk George Shultz was right -- we will\nhave to take these out of force structure here in the United States, which\namounts to $450 million probably. I am going to have to talk to the\nAppropriations committee of both the Senate and the House.\nK: Yes, but not this week. It's very important we don't have any\nof this this week.\nL: They are after me each day.\nK: Any time from next Tuesday on is okay. Slip it to Tuesday; it\nreally is very important.\nL: You think it will be embarrassing to have the costs come out?\nK: To have a. debate start on it now. If you can hold off andx wait\ntill Monday; by that time it will be a. lot clearer.\nL: On redeployments you mentioned and the P esident did to talk about\nmentations. We've got 150 aircraft on the way and 20 ships that haven't\nbeen announced but have orders. It might be well once in a while to put out a\nstory on that. We are looking at two more F-4 squadrons for Thailand. That's\nvery little, only 136 planes. We've got 119 we haven't announced and on B-52\nwe've gone from 55 to 139.\nK: We don't mind your putting out in the next few days some word if you\ndon't make it too heavy.\nL: We've got two squadrons from Florida\nI believe\nwe may need some others to rotate for those that are TDY now.\nK: Let me tank talk to the President again on these two squadrons.\nHold up until tomorrow. Lt me talk to him again. He said it should be done\nbut this is a. reasonable point of yours, Let me run it by him. You are thinking\nof rotation things?\nL: Yes, so we can keep air assets at a fairly high level in case we\nneed them this summer. We may need some. I can't guarantee, but we may need\nsome insurance. And I will keep **************** costs till next week.\nK: And I will talk to the President about the two squadrons again.\nL:\nK: We slightly prefer tomorrow night but it's not a. big thing.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nSec. Laird\n4/19/72 5:03 p.m. P. 2\nL: Okay. I will hold off on this till I hear from you, but I\nwould like to send you a paper for the President to read maybe on\naugmentation (?) and not putting it all in at one time but having it avail-\nable in case we needed it.\nK: Okay, I will get word to you tonight or tomorrow morning on\nthese two squadrons.\nL: Okay.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSec. Peterson/Kissinger\n6:00 p.m. - 4/19/72\nK:\nPete.\nP:\nHow are you? How is the Vietnam situation look?\nK:\nActually it doesn't look so bad and I think we know what we are doing.\nP:\nWell, that's good.\nK:\nI am getting phone calls from Harvard colleagues asking what's\ngoing on and saying I am eager to bomb. How can we be eager\nto bomb?\nP:\nYou are confident about the military situation?\nK:\nIn the south.\nP:\nWhat about the Soviets and the summit?\nK:\nThat I am confident about.\nP:\nToday we got a call from State stating that in the after-\nnoon meeting the Soviets would be told the package deal was fine\nand that we would talk about trade and credits but just between you\nand me the game we will play at State is that we are\nto\nmove trade in the lend lease group.\nSo I wanted to alert you to\nthis.\nK:\nBelieve me it can't happen. I have got it fixed on both ends.\nP:\nWell, I was just telling you.\nK:\nI have no question about what the bastards are doing.\nP:\nWhat would you advise us to do?\nK:\nThe problem is Dobrynin told me that under their instructions\ntheir guy needs to be told that we are willing in principle to look\nat these other issues without discussing lend lease figures, but he\nalso understands the group deal can be made between you and\nPoland so the only thing we have to do is keep these talks going\nafter which the Poland thing will take over.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nHAVE\nP: The second CONCEPT we should do is to look over the whole trade\npicture. They are now submitting very long reports about\n.\nWhat is your advice?\nK: I would proceed on whatever plan you and I agreed on.\nP: I don't\nwe are talking about to go into this public paper\nof theirs so what we will do is just ask questions but not get\nsubstantive.\nK: That's right. Just keep them talking. Get ideas out of them but\ndon't tell them what they are for.\nP: OK. Sorry to bother you.\nK:\nCan you and Sally join me a week from Sunday for dinner.\nP:\nThis is April 30th.\nK: Yes.\nP: Fine.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nAlexis Johnson\n4-19-72; 6:05 p.m.\nJ: I think it would be a good idea to see the Koreans.\nK: To see the President -- not a chance.\nJ: We sent you a memo a few days ago.\nK: I know.\nJ: They are the only people that still have troops down there.\nK: Let me reraise it. He won't see Foreign Ministers. He sees Under\nSecretaries of State. I will reraise it. You couldn't be more right. I\nwill make a strong case. If I can arrange it, you tell the obnoxious\nson-of-a-bitch not to raise fifty things he wants to raise with the President.\nJ: No, no, I will drill him.\nK: Great allies as the Koreans are, they are great pains in the neck.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelecon\nMr. Kissinger\nIvan Head\n4-19-72; 6:30 p.m.\nH: Sorry to trouble you but I wanted to tell you your message had been\ngiven to the Soviet Ambassador.\nK: In a firm way.\nH: In a very firm way.\nK: When did you do it.\nH: He was calling on Mitchell Sharp.\nK: No, I mean when.\nH: Monday morning.\nK: What did you say?\nH: I said it was a coincidence seeing him there. I told him in the course\nof a conversation with me you made a point that I thought he should know -\nthe President is firm in his intentions -- continue with withdrawals (I\ncould not hear the rest). He waited for me said he wanted to make sure\nwhat I said.\nK: Well, thank you very much and you will let me know when you are\nH:: Yes. I passed on the word about security to the appropriate person and\nI should have something back. The Prime Minister also wanted me to say\nto you how disappointed he was that you were already on the plane and he\ncould not say good-bye.\nK: How nice of him. Good. Let's keep in touch.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nNIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS PROJECT\nDOCUMENT CONTROL RECORD\nITEM REMOVED FROM THIS FILE FOLDER\nA RESTRICTED DOCUMENT OR CASE FILE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM\nTHIS FILE FOLDER. FOR A DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEM REMOVED\nAND THE REASON FOR ITS REMOVAL, CONSULT DOCUMENT ENTRY\nNUMBER 2 ON EITHER THE DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD\n(GSA FORM 7279 OR NA FORM 1421) OR NARA WITHDRAWAL SHEET\n(GSA FORM 7122) LOCATED IN THE FRONT OF THIS FILE FOLDER.\nA sanitized copy substituted for an original item which\ncontains information restricted under the Privacy Act.\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nNLN Form 101 (revised 6-85)\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified."
}