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Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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Telcon
Secretary Richardson/Dr. Kissinger
2-27-73 8:48 a.m.
R: Hello.
K:
Hello.
R:
I thought I might relay to you what he says.
the conversation
through the Command Center here focussed on the question of
the credibility of the spokesman for Hanoi in Saigon. He says
in effect that the press spokesman N
Tinh (?) and the
Deputy Director of their delegation to the Four Power Joint
Commission and the Head of the delegation General Wah(?)
are all in his view very simply mouth pieces for an orchestrated
process directed by Hanoi. He thinks there is no question about
that at all and that therefore dealing directly with them would not
change the course of things.
K:
Right, Well I
R:
Further, I haven't seen it, I gather that Bunker has sent a
cable on this.
Have you seen it?
K:
No.
R:
I was trying to get a copy of it.
K:
No we haven't normalized relations with State yet. But I am
establishing a liaison office there.
R:
Well I can serve that much for you Henry.
K:
Okay I'll get it.
R:
That's about all I know. You have I assume.
K:
Well the President is thinking of making a statement at his
press conference today.
R:
Well we were just talking about that. I personally think that is
a good idea
K:
And he is planning to be very tough.
R:
I think - you know - it would seem to me that this is the
time for him to say something and that it should be tough.
We thought he might want to say that he directed the suspension
of minesweeping operations.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telcon
Sec Richardson/Dr. Kissinger
2-27-73, 8:48 a. m.
Page 2
K:
Alright.
R:
That it seems to me that we were about to get underway
with the aerial sweeping today. So it is a very direct
reaction and I would think - well I don't need to improvise
what he could say but it would seem to me that that would
be a good thing.
K:
Good, I think that's right. We were thinking along the
same lines.
R:
If it is decided that he will or doesn't want to have the
minesweeping operation suspended. Of course it is
9:00 their time now almost.
K:
Pll let you know within the hour.
R:
Okay. Could you have the release - what they gave out in
Saigon.
K:
Our people, yes.
R:
Yes.
K:
I have that. Okay I have got to get it altogther for the President
becuase if my people aren't working on China they don't volunteer
work.
R:
Okay. Well that's all I have.
K:
Okay, good. I'll call you back around ten.
R:
Fine.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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Telcon
Amb Sullivan/Dr. Kissinger
2-27-73, 8:58 a. m.
K:
Hello.
S:
Hi Henry.
K:
Bill, I have a President who is going through the ceiling here,
because McCloskey said that not all the violations are on our
side that were shown on television.
S:
He said what?
K:
McCloskey said not all the violations of the ceasefire are on
our side. Would you mind instructing him that - to take a
more offensive position.
S:
I haven't heard what he said.
K:
It was on television - we saw it.
S:
Yeah.
K:
I mean this was not somebody transcribing it. This was on
satellite.
S:
Yeah. Good Lord! Alright I'll get hold of him.
K:
Now, what do we know about the prisoners?
S:
Well that's what I wanted to ask you. We, here have the impression
that they are refusing to
and make the releases
until their small petty conditions are satisified and we want to know
what position you want us to take on it.
K:
Well, they haven't officially said yet what their conditions are.
S:
Well you see the news said which suggests
made by
a Colonel Tinh.
K:
Yes, that's all we have. It's got mostly to do with the living
conditions there.
S:
The point is what you want us to do about it. So far, I have held
off.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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Telcon
Amb Sullivan/Dr. Kissinger
2-27-73, 8:58 a. m.
Page 2
K:
Why was the plenary session cancelled tomorrow?
S:
Tomorrow? It was not cancelled, it never was scheduled.
The idea was that tomorrow would be the day in which there
would bilateral efforts to push along the drafting on the
K:
Now what you should do is call an urgent meeting with Thach.
S:
I am going to be in with Thach anyway. The question is should
we have at a higher level should we have the Secretary make
a meeting with Tho so that it becomes public knowledge.
K:
What do you think?
S:
We are getting a lot of questions from the press as to what
our attitude is on the prisoners and we have been waiting for
some guidance from what you are going to take there. Are
you going to take a tough position, or are you going to
K:
Absolutely. We are going to take a very tough position.
S:
So it is a public position that you demand that they fulfill
and no conditions attached and all that sort of thing.
K:
That's right.
S:
Well we have to seem to be doing something here because there
are two questions: one, as to what McCloskey says to the press
on which we had no guidance yet and the second thing is whether
the Secretary should ask for and demand a meeting with
and we let it be known publicly and I think that probably needs
to be done.
K:
Why don't you wait until 11:00 when the President may say something.
S:
The President is going to say something at 11:00?
K:
He may.
S:
May, that's let's see what time are we now?
K:
That's two hours from now.
S:
Two hours from now?
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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Telcon
Amb Sullivan/Dr. Kissinger
2-27-73, 8:58 a. m.
Page 3
K:
Right.
S:
Alright, well anyway as far as McCloskey is concerned he
can say something very tough and very positive. Right?
K:
That's right.
S:
And then the question of whethery the Secretary demands
a
K:
I'll X call you and you should tell Thach that they had better
not monkey around with it.
S:
Alright, I'll be seeing him in a couple of hours - about three
hours. But the question is whether the Secretary should make
a - whether we should let that **** problicslyx be known publicly.
It seems to me to have.
K:
Not before the President has spoken if he doesn't interfere
with the flow of publicity.
S:
I cannot hear you.
K:
I said we just as soon let the President speak first.
S:
Absolutely, yes. Since he is contact here there has to be some
motion here.
K:
I know but we'd prefer to have the President push the Secretary
rather than the other way around.
S:
I understand. We'll wait until we hear from you.
K:
So why don't you wait until 11:00.
S:
Wait until 11:00 but also wait until we hear in a telephone
call that you want him to do it.
K:
Right.
S:
Good. We'll be here then waiting for you.
K:
Excellent.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telcon
Sec Richardson/Dr. Kissinger
2-27-73, 9:58 a.m.
K:
Elliot?
R:
Yes, Henry.
K:
The President wants to suspend mining and to suspend withdrawals
but not announce it. Then we can confirm it.
R:
Alright. We'll get word out right away.
K:
Tell the PAOs to restrain their enthusiasm.
R:
Now when is he.
K:
He isn't going to say it himself - Ziegler will say it at 11:00.
But he won't announce it - he will just do it.
R:
What will Ziegler do?
K:
Ziegler will just make a very tough statement and say that
Rogers has been instructed to conduct no further business in
Paris until this issue is clarified.
R:
Okay. No one will say anything about the suspension.
K:
No, but you can confirm it. You should do your best not
to have it triggered too fast.
R:
Okay.
K:
I mean don't let the public inquery trigger it too fast.
R:
I see.
K:
But we will notify the North Vietnamese of this.
R:
Okay, good.
K:
Okay?
R:
Yes, good. When is the President going?
K:
He is not going Elliot today because of this. Zielger is doing it.
R:
Oh, I see.
K:
He may not go on now until tomorrow.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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Telcon
Sec Richardson/Dr. Kissinger
2-27-73, 9:58 a.m.
Page 2.
R:
I had originally planned to have a press conference today
which I was not going to do. I think I had better put it off
anyway.
K:
Well he's not going today.
R:
Well the question is should I? Do you have any feelings on that?
If I do I'll get - this will dominate it. Mixtxbex Might be better
to have it handled in one place.
K:
Well we wouldn't object to your making some tough statements
about it.
R:
Well alright we'll think about that.
K:
Okay Elliot, I've got Sullivan on the other line.
R:
Okay.
K:
Goodbye.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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Telcon
Amb Sullivan/Dr. Kissinger
2-27-73, 10:00 a. m.
K:
Hello.
S:
Hello, Henry?
K:
Yes, Bill. Here's what we are going to do. We are going
to make a rather touch statement at 11:00 by Ziegler.
And the end of it says that the Secretary of State has been instructed to
conducted no other business at the Conference until this issue is
clarified and he can approach the Foreign Minister demanding a
clarification.
S:
Alright. I have seen McCoskey since I talked with you. He says
he can get the press together right after Ziegler goes at 5:00 here.
K:
Well, let's say 6:00 then. At your place.
S:
Alright we'll say 6:00 and you can give them two barrels.
We can give them one on the POW's and we can give them
another on violations if you wish me to.
K:
Absolutely.
S:
Do both.
K:
Right.
S:
And we will also have the Secretary ask for an appointment
with Phuong(?) to make a protest in accordance with the
statement Ron Ziegler will make.
K:
Right.
S:
Shall we let that be publicly known that he asked for that
appointment?
K:
Well what do you think? Will that make it very tough for them
to back down?
S:
Well I think we shouldn't let it be known until we actually
have the appointment. If we have the appointment, we can
let it be known.
K:
Okay, well you shouldn't ask for the appointment until
after the Ziegler has spoken.
S:
Well, if we ask for it before we are more likely to get it.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Telcon
Amb Sullivan/Dr. Kissinger
2-27-73, 10:00 a.m.
Page 2
K:
Well if we don't get it so what? We are going to send a
message anyway in addition.
S:
Alright, we'll until after 5:00 we probably won't get it until
tomorrow morning. Is that alright?
K:
Yeah. I'm thinking how wise it is to have that high level of
a confrontation. What do you think?
S:
Well, as long as that man doesn't have any
to
refer it back home.
K:
Why don't we wait until Ziegler has made his statement.
S:
Alright, we'll wait until he has made his statement.
And I'll have Bob speak on both counts, right?
K:
Exactly.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON
Secretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger
10:45 m., February 27, 1973
K:
Hello, Bill. I've just been talking to Bill Sullivan --
R:
I know that. I'd appreciate it if you'd speak to me.
K:
Okay, I just thought he could transmit it more easily.
R:
Yeah. I have serious reservation about making any statement about
cancelling the Conference.
K:
He didn't say -- There's no issue of cancelling the Conference.
R:
Well, maybe I didn't get the signals straight then.
K:
Oh, no. What he said is -- What he's going to say is that he's asking
you to demand clarification.
R:
Yes, I understand.
K:
And to conduct no other business until you've received that clarification.
R:
Well, on that one, why don't we just say the first until - I mean, if we
start saying things like that, we're going to have the other governments
just say to go to hell. They're not too happy about it anyway. It seems to
me I ought to be able to have the opportunity to talk to the other side.
Honest. And then if it's unsatisfactory, then start making threats.
But you'll find that some of the other parties are fed up anyway with the
whole idea of the Conference and they'll just say well, you fellows have it,
we're going home.
You follow me?
K:
Yeah. Let me raise it with the President.
R:
It seems to me you can say the same thing and the same sense of urgency
without the threat. I'd rather not on the phone go into the details but
you'll find that a couple of these governments will just leave. If we start
saying that without checking with them, they will just
K:
Well, I would doubt that but still you
R:
I'm here, I can tell you that. I just had two conversations I don't want
to go into it on the phone but I know that's what the situation is.
K:
Okay. Let me check it with the President right away.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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Secretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger
- 2 -
10:45 a. m., February 27, 1973
R:
One of them has gone already and he says he might come back but
believe me, that's a fact.
K:
Is that a government?
R:
Well, I mean the Foreign Minister.
K:
Oh, really. From where?
R:
Well, there's Britain. And they just said they're leaving and he'll be
back maybe Thursday night for the ceremony but if we start saying to
them without telling them or without consulting with them that we're not
going to conduct any business, then -- You really can't understand how
fed up, the British particularly, are with the Conference unless you were
here.
K:
Yeah.
R:
And I don't see any point if we can say that tomorrow. If I see Trend
tonight, then we're dissatisfied, we can say the same thing in the morning.
K:
Well, we should wait with Trend -- We have a message that they're
sending to us, which I'm going to re-transmit to you immediately.
R:
Henry, you want to speak a little louder, I have trouble hearing you.
K:
I say, we're getting a message from them, which I'm going to get re-
transmitted to you immediately and I think you should hold up seeing him
until we know what that message says.
R:
Hello.
K:
Which we'll get at about 9 o'clock your time.
R:
Henry.
K:
Hello.
R:
Yeah, I'm having a little trouble hearing you.
K:
I'm saying, Bill, you shouldn't see Trend until we've had a message from
them which is on the way.
R:
You want to speak a little louder -- I'm having trouble hearing you.
K:
Let's put in the call again -- I'm speaking as loud as I can.
woh
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Secy Rogers/Mr. Kissinger
10:55 a.m., February 27, 1973
R:
Henry, I can hear you now.
Well, I gather then what you have in mind
is not saying anything for the moment about not conducting any business.
K:
Well, I haven't been able to reach the President yet on that but I guess
he'll go along with it if that's your judgment.
R:
Yeah, it is. We can do that later if we decide that that's --
K:
Well, it looks a little weak though to have a Presidential statement that
yells and screams and then says all we've done is ask for clarification.
R:
Well, no, I think you can say more than that but it doesn't seem to me
that he ought to say that In the first place, we have nothing to do
tomorrow anyway and it seems to me you can say something to the effect
if the clarification is not satisfactory, then we'll have to consider what
to do. Something of that kind.
K:
Right. Okay.
R:
But I think if you put it the other way, you'll find that it will really be
unacceptable to several other countries here.
K:
Well, if that's your judgment, we have to abide by that.
R:
Now, a couple of other things, on the business about what Bob McCloskey
should say, I have thought about whether he ought to go into details about
violations. My thought would be just to make a general indictment.
K:
That's right. I agree with that. We weren't all that eager on the violations,
just so that it didn't look that we were in a totally defensive position.
R:
Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll see. Ron, is he going to have a prepared
statement?
K:
Yes. And we've given it to the Secretariat but we'll have to modify it now
in the light of our conversation.
R:
All right. Now, I won't try to see Trend until after 8:00 p.m. tonight.
K:
Well, why don't you wait until we transmit to you, which should be around
8:00 - 8:30, the message which they're sending to us and then you'll know
what the situation is.
R:
Yeah.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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Secy Rogers/Mr. Kissinger
- 2 -
10:55 m., February 27, 1973
K:
Because otherwise you'll be flying blind.
R:
That's right.
K:
So if you could wait and we'll phone you as soon as we have the message
and then ask for the appointment.
R:
Okay. Fine. One of my problems is I'm going to have dinner with
Gromyko tonight. Mrs. Rogers and I are going to have dinner with him
and Mrs. Gromyko.
K:
Well, then why don't you ask for the appointment for tomorrow morning.
R:
Well, we can do that.
K:
You know, I don't think much can happen tonight anyway.
R:
I think that's right. I have a feeling it will work out. I think that they're
just playing games again.
K:
I'm certain it will work out. And that's why the President thought he
would rather take a tougher than a softer line.
R:
That's right. Well, I think that's fine as long as we understand -- Keep
in mind that the Conference has gone pretty well so far.
K:
K:
Right.
R:
But there is a little unhappiness, particularly among the Canadians.
Apparently the Canadian Red Cross were refused to serve anyone and
they are on their way home.
K:
Humph.
R:
Because they got sort of pushed around. Particularly by the other side.
K:
Well, when you get through with this job, you can run a boys school for
unruly children.
R:
That's right. (laughter) It's no problem. I'll keep it in good shape.
K:
Okay.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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Secy Rogers/Mr. Kissinger
- 3 -
10:55 m., February 27, 1973
R:
Oh, incidentally, on Bob McCloskey's statement, this statement really
if you saw the whole thing, was not bad. He was just trying to stay out
K:
Now, look, McCloskey is outstanding and I've said this to the President.
But the trouble is they just showed --
R:
0.00
efforts to observe the ceasefire andx in all its aspects in Vietnam
it simply cannot be questioned. He said we're sorry to have heard the
remarks this morning. The record of violations is not entirely one-sided
affair between the forces on the ground and they do not involve U.S. forces
in any manner.
K:
Yeah, but you see, on the one morning news show they just showed that
one sentence - -- the record is not one-sided.
R:
Uh-huh.
K:
And that sort of made of look as if 90% of it was on our side of it.
R:
Yeah. It's awfully tough for him though because we're trying to keep the
damn thing out of the -- Nobody wants to argue about violations over here
in the Conference.
K:
Yeah.
R:
And all the speakers say this is no place to decide that. That's for the
ICCS to decide. So what we're trying to do is not have this a forum for
that decision. And I think he was just trying to follow that line. He doesn't
want to try to create a big contrast. We can do that if that's what the
President wants, there's no problem there. We can make a hell of a fight
over here.
K:
No, the major thing we want to do is hit the prisoner issue publicly.
R:
Yeah. I think that's right.
K:
That's the major concern.
R:
Okay, Henry, fine. Thank you very much.
K:
Right. Bye.
wgh
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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TELCON
Secy Shultz/Mr. Kissinger
11:18 m., February 27, 1973
K:
George, how are you?
S:
Pretty good. How are you?
K:
Okay.
S:
I'm trying to develop an itinerary for this trip, including the Russian part
of it.
K:
Right. Incidentally, I meant to call you -- If you could delay it one week
until after the French election, I think it would help.
S:
Well, under the current itinerary the way it's set up is to go to Rome to
see the Italians and then go to Moscow.
K:
Right.
S:
And then come back and go to the Common Market and then to London and
then hit Paris last, which would be around the 20th.
K:
Okay. Well, that's fine. [Hold on a second - - talking to someone in
his office] Hello.
S:
Yeah. Now, we have a toast in the Treasury called "Under Secretary"
K:
Yeah.
S:
And it is kind of an Under Secretaryship without portfolio.
K:
Right.
S:
And it is a person in this job that we would think of as carrying the
laboring oar on a lot of the international things that we're getting into.
I don't mean the monetary talks because Volcker does that but in our
dealings with the Soviet Union on the policy level and so on.
K:
Yeah, I understand.
S:
And I have been racking my brains for somebody who is experienced and
good and I come back in my mind quite frequently I find to your man,
Hal Sonnenfeldt.
K:
Oh.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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Secy Shultz/Mr. Kissinger
- 2 -
11:18 a.m., February 27, 1973
S:
So I'm calling to test you out on that whether you think --
K:
I'll be delighted to let you have him.
S:
Well, how do you think that would be?
K:
I think he'd be excellent if you're willing to take some temper tandems.
S:
Well, would he be a good man to negotiate with the Russians?
K:
Yes, if you discipline him. You know, he is substantively superb. He
has some personality problems, most of which will be solved by giving
him the title of Under Secretary.
S:
He is a Foreign Service Officer in his background, isn't he?
K:
Yeah.
S:
There are a number of advantages that I think of in addition to his
innate intelligence.
K:
He would work closely with me --
S:
First of all, you know him.
K:
He knows my strategy.
S:
He knows your strategy. It would be easy to stay in very close tune by
him. Second, he understands the dimension of the world that passes me
by. That is, he understands, as I get it, the politics of Europe; he knows
a lot about the Soviet Union.
K:
That!s right.
S:
And so on. So that rather than getting somebody in here who I know and
who knows all the things I know and nothing more, that doesn't help any.
Sonnenfeldt would bring an area of knowledge that would contribute very
greatly.
K:
Right.
S:
He would be a very odd appointment for the Treasury because he doesn't
have any economics or finance experience and people would say my God,
why the Treasury? And so it would be put down as a statement of the
expanded breadth of interest of the Treasury. That is sort of given by
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Secy Shultz/Mr. Kissinger
- 3 -
11:18 a.m., February 27, 1973
S:
(cont'd) the fact that the President's decision that we should handle
this Russian thing and our interests have expanded. But anyway, that
would be a martyr of that and there would be some struggle about that
in the confirmation hearings --
K:
George, I must run off to an appointment unfortunately for which I'm
already 10 minutes late. Could I - -
S:
Do you think well of this idea?
K:
Very well and it's extremely imaginative. If I could ask for a favor -- If
you go ahead with this, could you let me tell him that you're going to
approach him so that I get a little credit for --
S:
Oh, I wouldn't think of doing it any other way because I think that would,
among other things, enhance our chances.
K:
Right. And would also help the cooperation afterwards.
S:
Yeah. But you think this is a good idea?
K:
I really think it's a good idea.
S:
And you might drop that into the President at some point.
K:
Good.
S:
If we decide to go ahead.
K:
Good. Now, wait a minute, one other thing, would you do a good sales
job on Cooper?
S:
Yes, I will. I'll get him in here pretty soon -- sometime today.
K:
What I would like him to do really is to do the whole -- I'd make him
Deputy to me handling all big matters that concern you. He'd be the liaison
for you and Sonnenfeldt, if you take him. And he'd have that, foreign aid,
and all those matters in which now I don't get the adequate political input.
Vietnam reconstruction. I mean, he wouldn't run it -- you would run it
but the backstopping.
S:
Um-humm. Okay, I will talk to him very strongly.
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Secy Shultz/Mr. Kissinger
- 4 -
11:18 a.m., February 27, 1973
K:
I'd like to see you very soon. Could we have breakfast, say on Thursday?
Or Friday?
S:
Thursday is okay.
K:
Okay, Thursday.
S:
8:15.
K:
Good. Where?
S:
You want to come over here?
K:
I'll get better food there.
S:
All right.
K:
Good. See you then.
S:
Right.
K:
Bye.
wgh
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This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
President/Kissinger
2:35 p.m. - 2/27/73
K:
Mr. President.
P:
Have you heard anything on our stuff yet?
K:
Oh, it's playing very well in the press.
P:
Yeh, I talked to Ron.
K:
But they were going to deliver a message here at 2 o'clock.
P:
From Paris?
K:
From Paris.
P:
Yeh, but as far as the press thing is concerned we are just as well
to get our position out there at the moment and I think that it doesn't
bother me about Rogers' position because we're not going to meet
tomorrow anyway and he ought to spend the day raising hell about
this.
K:
Absolutely and he'll realize when he thinks about it for five minutes
that he's going to get better publicity out of this than by being a great
conciliator.
P:
Sure. Sure.
K:
And he'll get the credit for having solved the problem because no one
will know the tough private message you sent.
P:
That's right. That's right. Incidentally, I think you ought to get a
very strong message to Bunker for Thieu to the effect that between
now and the time the prisoners go out that he must recognize - and
his visit of course here - that his aid is very, very much at jeopardy
if he does anything. You know?
K:
Why is that?
P:
Because as I anticipated and you know I predicted, Ron said that three-
fourths of the questions were trying to put the blame on Thieu.
K:
Right. Right.
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2
P:
Now if they ever get him hung on that, you know, something happens -
that's the whole point - he's going to have to bend over backwards,
Henry, between now and I'm referring to when we get out. Then he
can sic the hell out of them. I don't care what he does.
K:
I'll get that message off this afternoon.
P:
He's got to realize that his aid program - don't you agree - do you
see my point. He's going to catch holy hell here. The press always
wants to jump on him; they don't want to jump on the North. For
Christ's sake, they're the ones who broke the ceasefire more than
the South. We know that. But Thieu is the one who will be made
the whipping boy. Will you see that off, please?
K:
I will get that off within the next 10 minutes.
P:
OK.
K:
Right, Mr. President.
P:
Call me when you get it together.
K:
Right.
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TelCon
Prof. Graubard/Mr. Kissinger
3:10 pm, Feb. 27, 1973
K:
Hello.
G:
Hi, Henry.
K:
Hello Steve.
G:q
How are you?
K:
Okay.
G:
Good. Henry, I have my pages and I would love to see if I could
get them to you, and I wonder if you think there is any chance-
they are pushing me in an unbelievable way here, I have to get
them back to them in 48 hours. I've explained that I--
K:
You know
G:
There are other things on you mind.
K:
That's right.
G:
Henry, what I'm really curious about is would there be some
chance that you might look at them at all if I got them to you.
K:
Oh, I might leaf through them.
G:
I see. Would there be any chance of our breakfasting together, or
something. Tell me what is possible.
K:
Well, towards the end of the week maybe.
me
G:
Okay. What they want you to do, let me /0/10 just tell you, is to
give them back the thing on Thursday night before I leave New York.
But they then say if something drastically happened over the weekend
I could still get in touch with them, if I got them to you on Thursday
or so, or Friday, or whenever you say, you think you would have
a chance sometime over the weekend to leaf through them.
K:
I'll do my damndest.
G:
Okay. Does this seem possible, you know I'm
K:
I'll do my best Steve.
G:
Right, and I'm not imposing - what shall I do, shall I call you
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-2-
again and see if I can
K:
Well, send them to me, the worse you'll lose is the postage.
G:
I'll send them to you today.
K:
Right, I'll read in it over the weekend.
G:
Good, wonderful. Okay.
K:
What does Nancy have, are those galleys or--
G:
Those are galleys, they are much improved, but I think she's
quite --
K:
She likes it and I leafed through it and it seems very good to me.
G:
I've had very good comments, Henry, and I'm very pleased. I
will send these to you--is there a courier or anything that goes
down from New York to you.
K:
I don't know whether the U.N. has something.
G:
Who would know that, and I wouldn't have to keep you on the phone.
K:
I don't know, my secretary maybe.
G:
I see, well otherwise--
K:
Call the U.N. Mission, call Scali's office.
G:
Scali!
K;
That's the Ambassador, the biggest jerk in the wor ld.
G:
And I can leave your name.
K:
Yeah, tell them you want to send something to me.
G:
And this is Ambassador Scali.
K:
Right. I wouldn't call him, just call his secretary.
G:
His secretary, exactly.
K:
Okay, Steve, I really must go.
G:
Okay and I will call you later in the week.
K:
Right, bye.
G: Bye.
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TELCON
Amb. Cromer/Kissinger
3:15 p.m. - 2/27/73
K:
Hello.
C:
Oh, Henry, I'm sorry to worry you so soon. There was one point
I forgot and that is this: There is a NATO Council meeting tomorrow
and unless your people get some slightly different instructions than
they seem to be operating on at the moment, they will definitely try
and sell the (pass) tomorrow which for the reasons that we discussed
we think rather premature.
K:
OK, let me tell Rush to put a week inbetween.
C:
I think that would be very wise.
K:
Good, I'll get to him immediately.
C:
All right, fine.
K:
Thank you.
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TELCON
Dr. Kissinger - Bob Toth
February 27, 1973; 3:35 p.m.
T:
Are you gonna go with me, or not?
K:
Go with you where?
T:
To the White House correspondents dinner.
K:
Oh, GD, let me answer by the end of this week.
T:
(Laughs)
K:
I haven't focused on it.
T:
Uh huh. Uh, now, I was gonna ask A1 if you couldn't make
it.
K:
Uh, huh.
T:
Al Haig. But, um, I had a question about the North Vietnam-
ese position on the prisoners. Is this a serious thing or is it
sort of a first of a series of minor crisis on this.
K:
At this point I think it's the first of a series of minor crisis.
T:
Uh huh.
K:
I just can't believe it.
T:
Uh huh.
thick over,
K:
At least that they would / you know, the whole Agreement or
an essential element of the Agreement at this stage.
T:
Un huh. Well, um, and the fact that it didn't come from, um,
Hanoi itself really it just came from this piddling colonel down
the line, it sounds like they're just testing something out.
K:
That's what I think but you know by tomorrow we may know
differently.
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-2-
T:
Ah, you mean from Paris?
K:
You know, no, they may make a radio broadcast by tomorrow.
T:
Uh huh. Have we stopped withdrawals?
K:
No, but you know I don't know what's gonna happen if this
continues.
T:
Well, I mean, obviously it's being taken quite seriously. Ah,
I was just wondering whether or not, you know my first reaction
was why the President should choose to respond in such sharp
turns to something/ that colonel for the North Vietnamese Army
said in Saigon.
K:
Cause we don't want to let it get out of hand.
T:
Uh huh. Uh huh. Well, ok. I guess it's a pretty straight-
forward story other than that.
K:
It's a straightforward story. There's no hidden significance.
T:
Henry, ah, one of the things I asked Julie about was coming by
and talking to you, you know, for about 15-20 minutes about the
Mideast one day when you get a chance.
K:
All right, but not this week.
T:
No.
K:
Ok.
T:
No, after she goes.
K:
Let's do that.
T:
Ok. Good. Thank you.
K:
Bye.
T:
Bye.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON
Dr. Kissinger - Valeriani
February 27, 1973; 5:35 p.m.
K:
Hello?
V:
Hello. I'm confused because your secretary always calls you
Mr. Kissinger.
K:
Because I know how Ph D's are acquired so I can't take them
seriously.
senior
V:
I was told that
/
Administration officials are confident that
the next group of prisoners will be released promptly.
K: Well, why don't you ask the senior officials. I'm only at the Under-
secretary level.
V:
Is that accurate?
K:
Huh?
V:
Is that accurate?
K:
That's a question of judgment.
V:
Well, now what do you think?
K:
Uh, I think there's a better than 50-50 chance.
V:
Uh huh. Do you figure they're ground-standing?
K:
I think that's a little test of manhood.
V:
Uh huh. Are your views directed at us or at the South Vietnam-
ese?
K:
Probably at both.
V:
At both.
K:
But we can't admit the composition that they can do that; I mean
that they can hold us responsible for the South Vietnamese actions.
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-2-
V:
Well, then the statement was pretty clear cut in that regard.
K:
Right.
V:
Ok. That's what I wanted to check.
K:
Good.
V:
Thank you very much.
K:
Bye.
V:
Bye.
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger - Sec. Richardson
February 27, 1973; 5:40 p.m.
K:
Hello?
R:
Hi, Henry.
K:
Hello, Elliot.
R:
Thanks for calling back. Ah, I had two things. One is that
you call at our last breakfast to discuss the NSSMs and the
studies that, uh. (Interrupted)
K:
Incidentally, when are we having breakfast, now?
R:
I don't know. We were trying, I think, to set it up on Thursday.
I hadn't heard whether we can do it or not. I hope we can.
K:
Right. Good.
R:
Anyway, what they handed you this morning and I'm now
sending over by messanger the memorandum we've developed
outlining the studies that we propose to undertake here. It
reflects the ongoing work that has been underway already and
identifies the additional things we think we ought to do and I
hope will also digest areas that you will find of interest and
that will contribute in turn at least as building blocks to follow-
on studies by /NSC the process itself.
K:
Good. Well, let us discuss how your individual studies can be
related to the inter-agency process.
R:
I think that would be very useful.
K:
Good.
R:
We have tried to develop this outline in a way that does have
in view what we believe to be the border kinds of strategic
issues that we would expect to be of
(trails off)
K:
Well, that's very helpful.
R:
It's not, you know, one always wishes this kind of thing is
better done but I did want to have it ready for your when you
got back rather than call you up and say we have another week or so,
you know.
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-2-
K:
Well, you're a man of your word.
R:
So, maybe we could talk about that when we do get together.
K:
Good.
R:
The other thing I wanted to say is that the thing about this GVN
proposition about taking out the SAM sites.
K:
Yeah.
R:
To me, that's, that does not sound like a good idea. They're
sitting, why not make it a major subject of protest within the
formal processes of the Four Party Joint Military Commission
of the ICCS and so on, at least in the first instance.
K:
I agree with you.
R:
Ok. Well, I won't labor the point.
K:
No, I agree and let's do that.
R:
Ok. Well, we'll get that word back to Vogt then.
K:
Good.
R:
And ask him to, and it may be that, ah (interrupted)
K:
Can you trigger from where you are Woodward to make this
a formal complaint?
R:
I would think, yes. And we can certainly as far as Woodward
is concerned. It may be that it ought also go around by some
other route to Bunker.
K:
All right. I'll (interrupted)
R:
Because as I understand it's a GVN proposal to use GVN air.
Then we've got to tell them we think that's a lousy idea that
they can be more effective putting the other side on the defensive.
It's not as if these were weapons that could affect the defensive
weapons in any event.
K:
Yeah. I agree.
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- -3-
R:
And if worse comes to worse, they'll be there. Ok.
K:
Ok.
R:
Thanks.
K:
Bye.
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TELCON
Dr. Kissinger - Ozzie Johnson
February 27, 1973; 5:50 p.m.
K:
Hello?
J:
Hello?
K:
How are you?
)
J:
Johnson. Thank you for calling back. I was fascinated by
the reports that I've not seen-made much of of Joe remarks
Sunday night in Peking to the effect that the representatives
would be at the Ambassadorial level and implications seemed
to be that these would be notably ranking people. Is that
accurate? And do you want to draw conclusions from it?
K:
We haven't made a final decision yet.
J:
Uh huh. One reason it fascinated me was to place it beside
what the President is supposed to have said in the Rose Garden
the other day to the effect that the Mardi Gras girls could expect
you to show them around Peking anytime they wanted.
K:
No, no, no.
J:
What was the setting on that?
K:
That's wishful thinking of the State Department. I will not be
head of the mission. Don't speculate on that.
J:
Ok. I wanted to be steered straight.
K:
Look, on this you can, really, this is not gonna happen.
I'm not meant for that sort of a post, as much as I love China.
J:
Uh huh. We could forget it instead.
K:
Yeah, I don't know what he meant.
J:
You were there, though.
K:
I was there.
J:
Then that is more or less then what he said.
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-2-
K:
Frankly, I don't remember his saying that.
J:
Uh huh.
K:
I thought he said I just got back from Peking but you know
I wasn't, I didn't think it was a historic moment so I was
more interested in trying to figure out how I could get their
phone numbers. No, I don't know what he said but it has no
significance.
J:
It would be easier if I'd lay those things to rest.
K:
Believe, me, you'd really be way, way off the beam if you
did that.
J:
How we hear such things.
K:
No, this is not.. We haven't really made the decision yet.
J:
And the decision hasn't been made so you are in a sense
speculating..
K:
No, we are exchanging messages on the subject but we haven't
really focused on it yet. I mean we've focused on it, but we
haven't made a decision yet. Ok.
J:
Fine. Thank you very much.
K:
Ok.
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TELCON
Dr. Kissinger - Joe Alsop
February 27, 1973; 5:53 p.m.
K:
Hello?
A:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Hello, Joe. How are you?
A:
Now is this news as bad as it looks?
K:
On the prisoners?
A:
Yeah.
K:
Oh, no. We're gonna, that's just a little test of manhood.
A:
Oh, Oh.
K:
As soon as we get our Secretary of State back here where
we can calm him and relax him, it will all be all right.
A:
Where is he now?
K:
He's in Paris.
A:
Oh, yeah. When's he coming back?
K:
On Friday or Saturday.
A:
People will be getting in an awful peaking about it, Henry. I
wonder if we could meet tomorrow morning.
K:
Impossible, Joe. I'm just about 6 weeks behind in my work.
A:
You are.
K:
But, I would not make that a major column; just by the time
you have it written it may be out of the way. If it's not
resolved by Friday, then we've got ourselves a problem.
But from all the other messages that are going back and forth
between us and Hanoi - it does not look to me as if this is a
showdown.
A:
When will it come, do you think?
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-2-
K:
The showdown?
A:
Uh hum.
K:
Oh, maybe this time next year, maybe this summer, but
not now.
A:
Ok, Sir.
K:
They're much more plantive in their private communications
to us.
A:
Oh, they are.
K:
They're not putting it to us yet.
(Herbolos)
A:
Henry, did you decide you'd like to come to see the
/
? and
family for supper or not?
K:
Can I let you know tomorrow morning?
A:
It doesn't matter, then, call me at the last minute. This is the plan.
K:
I would love to come-it's just a question of, we have to prepare for
Mrs. Meir and other things and I'll know it better in the morning.
A:
When is Nancy coming down?
K:
I guess Saturday only.
A:
Could she stay so she could have supper with us Sunday?
K:
I can ask her but probably not. I think she's quite determined
to get back.
A:
Let me ask her. I'll call her.
K:
[Laughs ]
A:
I've had some success in those quarters. Good.
K:
Bye.
A:
Goodbye
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON
Sec. Rush/Kissinger
6:25 p.m. - 2/28/73
K:
Hello.
R:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Ken, how are you?
R:
I'm fine, thanks. How are you?
K:
You got our foreign policy in a total turmoil, I'm told.
R:
And my hearty congratulations for all that you did, Henry.
K:
Thank you.
R:
Really terrific.
K:
Are we going to meet this week sometime?
R:
I would love to. Should we have breakfast Thursday morning?
K:
No, you refused breakfast Thursday morning.
R:
Oh no I didn't.
K: |
I was told you had.
R:
Oh, for heaven's sake, who told you that?
K:
I was already starting a feud with the State Department again. You're
qualified as long as you'reActing Secretary.
R:
Something Henry has gone very wrong.
K:
How about lunch on Friday?
R:
I'd be glad to do that.
K:
Let's have lunch on Friday.
R:
I'd like it very much.
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2
K:
Ken, I have had - it's too complex - a wailing complaint from the
British that we are steamrollering them too much on that MBFR.
And they request whether we couldn't hold off through one NATO
session tomorrow.
R:
All right.
K:
And since Dobrynin is coming back, I'm wondering whether we
couldn't sell it to him twice.
R:
Well, we might.
K:
I mean do you think we could ask whoever - I mean to keep it
moving in that direction without steamrollering it tomorrow and
it might then give us a claim on the British for the next meeting.
R:
The British were the ones. I'm not in the office, I'm at a meeting
I had to go to outside the building.
K:
Yeh, I understand. I know where you are, Ken. You're at the
Senate.
R:
I'm at the Rayburn Office Building. Right you are. Your assistant
is
as always.
K:
None of this consorting with the enemy.
R:
(Laughs) We have to keep the enemy smiling.
K:
I agree with you.
R:
But Henry, we were going to have - to call on the British in London
tomorrow. I've done really all I felt I should do with Cromer over
here.
K:
Well, no, everyone agrees you've done really a superb job on it.
I'm just wondering whether tactically before Dobrynin is back we
should use all our muscle whether we couldn't do it again as a sign
of good will after he's back.
R:
I think that's a good idea.
K:
So will you call off the dogs for tomorrow.
R:
I will call the dogs off for tomorrow. K: Good, thank you.
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3
R:
Henry, while I have you on the telephone, we're sending a letter
over to the President with regard to this vote in ICAO tomorrow.
Do you know about that?
K:
Yeh, what's your recommendation?
R:
Well the recommendation is unequivocally that we first, we'll
try to change the "condemned".
K:
Right.
R:
We won't be able to do it. The British have tried, I've talked to
Scali; he's been working very hard on it. We will not be able to
do it.
K:
Right.
R:
Scali says that our support for the 25% maximum will be seriously
undermined if we vote against it. We isolate ourselves. The feeling
is we might touch off something very drastic in Libya who might
want to shoot down an American plane.
K:
So you're in favor of accepting it?
R:
I'm in favor of making a very strong attempt to knock out the
"condemned" and then when we vote for it, we will vote for it
with strong disapproval as we will make clear ahead of time of
prejudging this thing in advance and of the "condemned."
K:
Good, I agree.
R:
OK. Well, then we'll go ahead on it.
K:
You go ahead on that. Good.
R:
OK. Thanks, Henry.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON
Sen. Javits/Mr. Kissinger
6:40 pm, Feb. 27, 1973
K:
Hello.
J:
Henry!
K:
Jack how are you?
J:
Welcome home.
K:
Thank you.
J:
With pockets full of POWs.
K:
I wouldn't worry about it.
J:
Well, I thinkyou did absolutely great, we're all so proud of you.
K::
Aren't you ;nice. Well you were a great friend i;n the difficult
period and I won't forget that.
J:
Well, I'm glad. Henry I called for a personal reason because I'm
going to see Nelson on Thursday. There's an awful lot of pressure
on ;me to run for Mayor of New York, and it's precisely that you
are so far away from that scene, but know me well in my place
down here, that I thought perhaps either now or if you turned it
over in hour mind you might have some helpful word for me, or
if you've got the time, I'll come and talk to you about it.
K:
Well let me, you know, that's an important decision, let me not
do it lightly. Can I call you tomorrow and see whether we can
have a drink at the end of the day of something like that.
J:
That would be great. I'll tell you why I say what I do, as I say I'll
be seeing him, there are many considerations involved, both personal
and also processional, but there's one thing that while you are thinking
about it let me put in your mind. Ehrlichman was here about a week
or ten days ago and he came up to talk about how things were going
here, etc., kinda getting himself oriented. He mentioned something
about this to me and I said well it's the kind of thing which I'm not
entertaining seriously but if I should, I would want to see the President
about it. He said why. And I said to me the answer to New York is
to reverse the course by which Mayors of New York have beaten the
President and Governor over the head. But rather to reverse that
and find out whether the President's interested in making New York
the big jewel of the United States or the world because it is the most
dynamic and the most busy city, I suppose, on earth.
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-2-
K:
Right.
J:
And he said that's a very interesting, idea any time you say. Well,
I'm not saying because if I walk in with such a mission then I'm hooked.
You follow me.
K:
Of course.
J:
But I did want to tell you that so that you might have it in back of
your head as to their feeling about it, see.
K:
Right.
J:
That's all, I just--
K:
Let me feel it out around here what the attitude, you know, what
they really think.
J:
Right.
K:
Good, and I'm more sympathetic to the thought than I would have been
say, eight years ago.
J:
Well, it's interesting, you know, I've had th;is opportunity twice
I had it in 165 when Lindsay ran and I had it in '61 when I actually
turned it down, a thing which I'll tell you - they tried to push me
into it and I said flatly no.
K:
Kes. But I'd like to make it a responsible reaction, so I'll call
you tomorrow.
J:
Yes, wonderful. Thank you Henry.
K:
Right, bye.
J:
Bye.
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TelCon
The President/Mr. Kissinger
6:55 pm/February 27, 1973
K:
Mr. President
P:
Hi Henry. I wanted to see if there's any development on that
POW thing. Give me a call if--
K:
Absolutely.
P:
Because I have to do that press thing tomorrow, I have to start
to work on it again, you see.
K:
The way the timing runs now--
P:
You see this is now--well, it's daylight out there now, it's just
beginning.
K:
Yes that's right. Well we have a press statement here, one of them
said, one of the NVN said they have not suspended the prisoner
release--
P:
This is after the hoopla?
K:
Yeah. They said they have not suspended it, all they have done
is call our attention to the need to implement all the provisions.
P:
Uh huh.
K:
At the same time they haven't given us any prisoners, so--but they've
stayed away from saying--
P:
Well, this statement though I would say is they haven't crossed the
Rubicon.
K:
Exactly.
P:
And that probably was made, having the knowledge of what we've said.
K:
Right.
P:
That statement was probably made after--
K:
I was certainly made after our press statement.
P:
Right, whether they've had our private statement--
K:
Our private statement, I doubt that they had had it at that time.
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P:
No, because of the --
K:
But I think-
P:
That ought to shake them even more.
K:
I think they are not going to shake us down on this. Or try to face
us, because they know-
P:
It's not the right time.
K:
The internation conference going on, the Chinese and Russians
aren't going to jeopardize their relations with us. No one else
is going to back them at that conference, and not only this, they
know if you stated clobbering them again, you'd have the American
people with you on this. If this were the issue.
P:
Right, you see we've always realized as I in December, you know,
if we could have made the POW the issue I could have gone on
television, but we couldn't. It's partly the issue. But right now
if it's on the POWs and I say I'll bomb them, we are going to bomb
them until we get the POWs, by God the people would back you all
athe way.
K:
And if you played all the strings and said after the stories that the
returning prisoners told you about conditions in prison camps, you
will not permit them to stay there one extra day, that you will
-but I don't think it's going to come anywhere close to that.
P:
I agree. But these things must be going through their minds.
K:
Exactly.
P:
They were certainly going through the mind of somebody as clever
as Gromyko, and people like that. Chou En-lai would understand that.
K:q
That's right.
P:
In fact.
K:
We may even consider getting the Russians involved on our private
channel, if it keeps going through tomorrow. I don't know if Rogers
will do it toughly enough.
P:
My view tomorrow is that if it doesn't bseak, I will not go on the press
thing.
K:
I agree.
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P:
Because it can only be just a general bunch of crap, about this and
that and throwing it up.
K:
But if it were to break, it would be a good time to go.
P:
Then if it breaks, I'll just go out and take other questions.
K:
That's right.
P:
But if it doesn't break then wells face this one down and go through
with the Meir dinner on Thursday, and by Friday it ought to break
--by Friday it either breaks or we are going to have to go to a very
very tough alternative.
K:
Exactly, by Friday it hasn't broken, you'd have to do something
pretty drastic.
P:
Well, ; it wouldn't be apress conference then, I think we'll just
give it to them, don't you agree.
K:
Well I would certainly not--
P:
I mean an ultimatum basically.
K:
I don't see how you could let Rogers sign a final act in Paris under
those conditions.
P:
Never.
K:
But it won't get to that point because--
P:
Either this or that, there can be no God damned signing without the
POW thing.
K:
Mr. President, we will swing along as he always has and bk the end
of the day tomorrow he'll realize that you've made him a strong man.
P:
Yeah, I saw in the paper tonight that he was threatening to leave.
K:
Kicking and screaming. We made him do it kicking and screaming.
P:
I know but the it's the best thing ke ever did.
K:
Of course, Mr. President, and he will gain in respect.
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P:
People will say, gee he's fighting for the POWs.
K:
Of course.
P:
And congratulations.
K:
Of course.
P:
Well, call me at any time of the night, okay.
K:
Right, Mr. President.
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TELCON
Bill Sullivan/Mr. Kissinger
10:30 p.m., February 27, 1973
K:
you demand clarification but not at that level.
S:
I see.
K:
Secondly, we shouldn't do anything high profile on what he does because
we got a message coming about 2 o'clock our time.
S:
I see.
K:
And we better know what that says before we start running off to
meetings.
S:
Yeah, all right.
K:
But let McCloskey confine himself to the prisoner issue.
S:
To the POW issue?
K:
Right.
S:
Not to the violations?
K:
Don't you think that would escalate it too much?
S:
He's getting hit on both counts and he's having to appear rather mushy.
K:
Well, then let him hit on both.
S:
All right.
and we have had another crisis since the last time I
talked to you. The whole drafting committee has reached a standstill
because the North Vietnamese and the Communists have raised the issue of
throwing out the representative of the Secretary General who is sitting
in the Committee but not participating as a member but he's just participating
more or less as an observer. I've told my people to hang tough on it and
if necessary, let the Committee's work come to a stall while we perserve
the position for the Secretary General.
K:
That's okay.
S:
It's a bit of a stupidity because we got the guy in this morning and he was
there all morning perfectly all right but then he was stupid enough to insist
that he have an eating place put in front of him and that's what precipitated
it.
(laughter)
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Bill Sullivan/Mr. Kissinger
- 2 -
10:30 p.m., February 27, 1973
K:
Do they hire people with IQs of more than 100?
S:
(laughter) They're all Austrians. (laughter) Well, we'll do this one.
I will hold off on any request for an appointment until we hear about your
message at our meeting tomorrow morning if necessary. But we'll let
McCloskey go at 6:00 on both issues.
K:
Exactly. Okay, good.
S:
All right.
K:
Thank you. Bye.
wgh
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/Sec. Rogers
11:54
a.m.
2/28/73
SR: I think we can talk on this line- other one is
HK: Oh no, the other one is impossible.
SR: I have a statement here that I'll explain to you--I'll read it to you
issomething you might release here or you might release there,
depending on what the President wants to do.
HK: Right.
SR: In a private meeting--first let me say we had two meetings--o with all
four of us that lasted a couple of hours and that was just the usual stuff,
and afterwards Trinh and I went into another room--just the two of us
and he assured me that they would carry out the release of all our POW's
within our 60 day period -there was no doubt about that, secondly, that
they had no interest in causing unnecessary trouble and first they
promise that the government's position is the same on the POW's release
--secondly, that he would XXXXXXXXX on four separate occasions--and that
as far as the next stage of the release is concerned he would have the
matter taken up at once in the JMC in order to work out the arrangements.
I think that's what they have in mind think they are doing it for two reaso n
one because the PRG and two because concern that was expressed to me
about mine sweeping- think in any event they will move in the next day or
two and I think the only reason they didn't do it this morning was because
he felt it would have been under pressure--can you hear me all right?
HK: Yeh.
SR: Yeh. I have a statement here as I say--is a possibility, we are under
a lot of pressure to say something because everyone else has said something
"-in a private meeting between Secretary of State Rogers and Foreign
Minister Trinh which followed the meeting--well, "In a private meeting
with Secretary State Rogers and Foreign Minister Trinh, the Foreign
Minister stated that his government intended to fully carry out the
provisions of the Paris Agreement dealing with POW's. In this connection
he gave the assurance that his government and all POW's held by his
government would be released within the60-day period set forth in the
agreement. With regard to the next phase of release of the POW's
Foreign Minister Trinh said that the matter would be discussed at once
and the JCM in order to work out the arrangements. Now the last
sentence is something that the President should decide on "In the light
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Page 2
of this, the President has asked Secretary Rogers to continue with
other business of the conference as scheduled.
HK: How do you interpret that statement Bill will they release it 60 days
isn't good enough because of the 15 at the protocols make it obligatory
that they do it in 15 day increments
SR:
Let me say this - -he committed himself as firmly as you can that the
agreement- 60 day provision of the agreement would be fully complied with.
Secondly, he said that they'd do it four third, he gave the impression
that they were prepared to discuss the second phase right away. And I
have a feeling that what they have in mind is just a delay of another day or
two--I tried to pin them down; I said could we get assurance that you'll
do it tomorrow, he said, wellI'll have to let you know on that. Now on the
other decisions the President made, I wouldn't xxx change those at all
so really the only question that I have to face is whether we want to extend
the conference or not, or whether we ought to try to go ahead tomorrow
and see how it goes.
HK: Can I call you back in 10 minutes and check with the President?
SR: Yeh.
HK" I 11 call you right back.
SR: You understand that as far as the other decisions the President made
are not affected -I am all for those-
HK: No, no, I understand that.
SR: So the only thing we would say is in light of this these assurances,
the President has asked Secretary Rogers to proceed with the other
business of the conference as scheduled. Now if we don't get satisfaction
--we can delay it *ilx tomorrow afternoon, we don't have to go ahead on
Friday.
SIK: Right. Well, I'm pretty sure that but I 11 have to check--he will not
agree to a signed document until we have assurances on the prisoners.
SR: Yeh, well we don't have to agree on that. But this sort of puts them on
the spot I think in view of this promise-
HK: Good--let me go right into see him and I'll call you in fifteen minutes.
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TelCon
Secretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger
11:54 am, Feb. 28, 1973
K:
Hello.
R:
Hello, Henry. It would be extremely helpful to me if
he were to go on this trip with me. Would that be possible.
K:
Certainly.
R:
Would you want to tell him.
K:
Let me call him tomorrow. When are you going.
R:
Would leave March 8 and be back March 22.
K:
Yeah, let me talk to him. Would you promise me that
position beforehand. Or indicate that it's likely.
R:
I would. The President knows him faily well, I assume.
K:
Yeah, but you'd better let me talk to the President first,
because he's a little ambivolent.
R:
Well that is what--before anything is said to him I would like
to--but the President's on board and I didn't want to bring
it up with the President, I think it might well if you did.
K:
Okay, good. I'll do that tomorrow.
R:
All right.
K:
Good.
R:
And you'll tell Sonenfeldt about the trip.
K:
Right.
R:
Ok ay, thank you.
K:
Have you talked to Cooper.
R:
Yes, and he seemed to be very þpleased with the discussion
and said he was hoping to see you today or tomorrow.
K:
Were you well impressed with him.
R:
I think he's a good guy, yeah. And his only problem he said was
his family problem. He knew he was going to have to work veyr
hard if he takes this job, and has to square that away with his
wife, and so on.
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2
K:
Right.
R:
So I said well that's right you will have to work hard and you
might as well go into it with your eyes open.
K:
That's right. No, there's no sense having anyone work for
me on another premise. Okay.
R:
Very good. I'll see you tomorrow morning.
K:
Right, bye.
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TelCon
Irving Lazar/Mr. Kissinger
12:30 pm, February 28, 1973
K:
Hello.
L:
Hello Henry
at the Douglases and there were a large
group of us waiting to see it, and we tho ught that you handled
it marvelously, as usual, you always do but there were some
particularly sticky things and I think that you cleared up a lot
of questions which had to be answered in precisely the way yo u
did.
K:
Well aren¹t you nice.
L:
Well you did. You fielded a lot of things about Connally and the
rest of it that made it clear up a lot of nonsense for that plagues
you apparently or should I suppose with all these constant repit-
titions that people make in cross references.
K:
Yeah.
L:
At any rate I wanted to talk to you--
K:
It's a gossipy town.
L:
Well we all know that but the point is you cleared up for the rest
of us for a lot of people who are not really knowledgeable about
gossip but rather interested in the political aspects of your thinking,
you cleared up a lot of nonsense that for the moment won't
plague you. But I called you really to find out if you're coming
through L/A. at any time soon because we'd love to have a little
dinner for you.
K:
I am almost certain to be in L.A. with the President between, say
the 28th of March and the 8th of April.
L:
Well, that's marvelous. We'll be back from, in fact permanently
insconced in our place in Beverly Hills, and I hope that if you think
of it that you let us know a week before you are coming out--if you
want to set a date now, we'd love to have a dinner for you the first
few days in April.
K:
Well, it's a little tough for me to set a firm date, we can aim for
something like March 31st or April 1st.
L:
All right. Let's ai/m for March 31st and then I'll call you about
the 25th and check you out.
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-2-
K:
Would you do that?
L:
I'll be happy to do it. We'd love to have a dinner for you and
have all your chums, and we've love to see you, too.
K:
That would be marvelous.
L:
I'll call you--
K:
I still remember your many kindnesses to me and--
L:
Oh, nothing at all. I really am interested if you liked my friend
The Baroness Van Zwelan.
K:
Very much.
L:
Isn't she a darling lady.
K:
She is a great lady, and very, very attractive.
L:
I tell you, she's not only a beautiful girl, but she's a marvelous
friend.
K:
She came out to see you afterwards, didn't she.
L:
Oh, yes, she stayed with us for about a week.
K:
I really liked her. She caught me during a really hectic week
and I came late and left early.
L:
Well, she told me that and the reasoning, believe me if you find
her companionable, I can only tell you she's one of the best chums
you'll every have because that's the way she is with a lot of people
you know actually and a lot of people you don't know.
K:
Yes, she's marvelous.
L:
And her husband, by the way, is an extremely attractive and a
brilliant banker and publisher.
K:
I didn't meet him.
L:
I know you didn't. They were all here for about two weeks.
K:
I see. Oh yeah, she's a wild golfer she told me.
L:
Yes, yes, well they are very old frien ds of mine, I mean I'm a
Godfather of one of their children and Sam Speigler is a Godfather
of another one, so -- I know you know Sam quite well.
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-3-
K:
Yes
L:
Well listen now, you take care and then you do as well as you've
been doing and it will all come out marvelously. The whole
bloody thing.
K:
Kes, I don't want to be under an obligation to keep going at this
pace.
L:
I know, but you look wonderful. As a matter of fact I was so pleased,
we sent you a wire at your press conference when you came back
there.
K:
Yes, I appreciated it very much.
L:
And I thought the other they photographed you extremely well
unlike the candid camera work they do on ordinary press conferences.
You look marselous as usual, of course you' re very eloquent
and you handled all the rather tough questions of Barbara's very
very eloquently and very well.
K:
Good, well aren't you nice.
L:
Marvelous, well it couldn't have been more gleeful. There were
a lot of your friends sitting around and we all enjoyed it enormously.
K:
Well, of course, you are all a little prejudiced.
L:
We are, that true, but then again why not.
K:
Well, I'll look forward to seeing you.
L:
I'll call you, we'll aim for the 31st and then I'll call you about
the 25th or so and we'll check it out.
K:
Excellent.
L:
Okay, Henry.
K:
Bye.
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TelCon
2:45 pm, February 28
C1973 I
David Frost/Mr. Kissinger
K:
Hello.
F:
Henry.
K:
David, how are you.
F:
Very well, how are you today.
K:
Okay.
F:
It looks like a very hectic day.
K:
Well, every day is hectic.
F:
Right.
K:
And I'm not yet--are you coming down anyway?
F:
Well, there's one other thing I could while I'm there but I
wouldn't come down unless we are having the pleasure of a get
together, that is all.
K:
Let me let you know, can I do it as late as 3:30.
F:
Oh, God, yes, please do. Please don't feel pressed in any way,
K:
I don't feel pressed I just might- - I don't have anything that I must
do, it's simply a question that I must get over some material by
tonight, that is the only question, I want to see if I have a chance
of finishing it by 8 or 8:30.
F:
Of course.
K:
Let me call you around 3:30.
F:
Oh, that would be delicious. If I could juggle tomorrow, would
lunch tomorrow be any good.
K:
No, lunch tomorrow is impossible. Tonight may well be the best.
F:
All right, well seeing you then would be lovely.
K:
Good, I'll call you then.
F:
May the Lord be with you.
K:
Bye.
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TelCon
Carter Brown/Mr. Kissinger
2:48 pm, Feb. 28, 1973
K:
Hello.
B:
Hi, it's Carter Brown.
K:
How are you.
B:
Many thanks for getting in touch. I have two quickies for you.
The first is that you will be getting an invitation from Paul and
Bunny Melon for dinner at the National Gallery before a preview
of the Soviets on the 29th of March and we would love to have you
circle it on your calendar and also let us know if you'd like to
bring a date.
K:
Thank you. If I'm in town I'd be happy to.
B:
Should we get in touch with your secretary about the name and
address of anyone that you'd like to bring.
K:
Yes, a little later.
B:
A little later, great. Seacondly I have a communication from
Paul Melon who's out of the country about getting in touch with
the Chief Justice. The Chairman of our Board was here at the
Board meeting where we approved in principle on an if and when
basis about the Chinese show.
K:
Right.
B:
And I hesitate to go through all of this if there really isn't any
news because I did have a chat with the President, very briefly,
on Sunday morning at the worship service in which he told me
that as far as he knew it would be opening in Washington, but I
didn't want to--
K:
I have no such information.
B:
You have no such information, okay good.
K:
And he hasn't either.
E:
Well I didn't want to take that as gospel without checking with
somebody who is--
K:
No, I think once we get a little further down the road, we ought
to raise that issue formally.
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B:
Good. Okay, fine. Because the--we have been in touch with
the USF and Len Garment and the State Department over a long
period of time on this and have voluntarily offered not to do
anything without getting in touch with Chinese unilaterally or
directly because my own view is that this is really in your hands
and it should be done whichever way the U.S. government thinks1
is the best solution.
K:
Well, why don't you wait until we get a little further down the
road.
B:
Okay, great. I do have some information from the National
Gallery in Canada who says that they would much prefer having
the show after us, because they are committed through March
and our contacts in Londan say that the delegation in Peking
has worked out details now for the show and that they've gotten
a month's extension for both Paris and London, and so it won't
be coming through until next January, and some other details
that I can work out when it's appropriate. But it might give the
U.S. an opening wedge to say that wouldn't it be nice to slip it in
for Americans before the Canadians, but that's not an--
K:
You want to write me a letter on that so that I have something
to work from.
B:
Okay, great. All righty, well that's really what I have in mind
and just wanted to let you know that we are here to be as helpful
as we can.
K:
Good, Well I appreciate this and we'll see what can be worked out
on getting )a( the show to Washington and secondly to get it in
before the Canadians.
B:
Right.
K:
But I think we may be successful in getting it to Washington but
it isn't true that it's already been agreed to.
B:
Good.
K:
It hasn't even been proposed yet.
B:
No, exactly, but we haven't wanted to suppose our own approaches
and initiatives with the Chinese, my instinct is that from what I've
heard about their mentality, they would probably be most happy
about having it open in Washington.
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K:
I think it would be natural for them to want to do it, so I don't
think it's--I think you can afford to relax.
B:
Good. All righty, well - - we'll leave it in your hands and
I'll write you a letter on the technicalities which may be of
help in your negotiations.
K:
Good, thank you.
B:
Right, bye.
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This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TelCon
5:00 pm, Feb. 28, 1973
Phil Geyelin/Mr. Kissinger
K:
Hello.
G:
Henry.
K:
Phil, I wish you wouldn¹t get me into -- is this a Washington Post
plot.
G:
Henry, I just want to tell you I'm leaving for Mexico in the morning.
I wanted to say goodbye.
K:
Well--
G:
I appreciated your present very much.
K:
I hope you give the reasons for it publicly.
G:
Well I will, I going down there to get laundered, is that okay.
K:
Sure.
G:
Listen, I want to thank you for coming by last night.
K:
Not at all, it seemed like a great party, a lot of friends were
there.
G:
I appreáciate it very much.
K:
Well, I was delighted and you know I've respected your work
enormously. That's why it's occasionally painful, but I've
never doubted, you know, what you stood for.
G:
Well, I'd like to, I really would like to have a breakfast and
talk about the rest of the world, something that that other party's
going to take care of itself.
K:
Let's do that soon.
G:
Okay. I have been left by one of my--an editorial on this kind
of situation in the hold up of the prisoners, which to be quite
frank about it, I find is--I myself am a little concerned with it,
he' it gives you the impression that the Saigon government is
in fact not complying and although I have edited it, point out that
that has nothing to do with the release of the prisoners under the
terms of the contract--
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2
K:
Well, I will say that we will use really maximum pressure on
them to comply. We have no interest to have gone through this
agony to let them screw up the agreement.
G:
Yeah.
K:
And, --
G:
Ziegler is right, there is no connection between what we do and
what Saigon does, but as a practical matter it is all one big ball
of wax, isn't it.
K:
Well, you know, the North Vietnamese, the Vietnamese on both
sides are bastards, you have to start with that. And they are too
engaging in massive violations, not of the ceasefire than in terms
of infiltration. But this may be, as it may be, it, we will use our
maximum influence and we are in discussions, just for your
information, with the South Vietnamese now to bring about better
compliance.
G:
Yeah, Okay, well that I think solves my problem. I just don't
want--the sound of the way this was before I put it through the
machine again, as if you know they were all right and Saigon was
all wrong, I'm sure that isn't the case.
K:
That is not true, but I can assure you we have in the last few days
made energetic representation.
G:
Okay.
K:
Good, Phil.
G:
Thank you Henry.
K:
Bye.
G:
Bye, bye.
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TelCon
5:35 pm, February 28, 1973
Ambassador Cromer/Mr. Kissinger
K:
Hello.
C:
Oh, yes, sorry to worry you again. Now I have a telegram
giving a report of the NATO MEETING today.
K:
Don't tell me it didn't work.
C:
It went on exactly the same as it was before. What is even
honor about it. Alec Humes saw Bill Rogers in Paris and they
had a word about what you and I discussed and Bill said exactly
the same to Alec as you said to me. I mean, give or take a week
or so doesn't make too much difference. Your character Rumsfelt
at the NATO meetings.
K:
He's a bloody go-getter.
C:
I know he is. My report from my people say at the meeting this
afternoon Rumsfelt continued to press for acceptance as soon as
possible of the American--
K:
Listen, people are raising hell with my staff for my allegedly
slowed them down so the word has certainly gotten to the State
Department.
C:
Yes, well I'm sure it has, but either Rumsfelt hasn't got it or
he's not reading it.
K:
Is the meeting over now.
C:
Yes, the meeting is over, they're not meeting again until Friday.
K:
Okay, I'll
C:
I said I'd let you know right away.
K:
Look, Rollie, by Friday he'll be slowed down or he'll be on vacation.
C:
I should tell you this is my interpretation, but that's what our
chap's has reported back.
K:
Okay, we'll slow him down.
C:
Okay. Lookforward to seeing you tomorrow.
K:
Right, bye.
C:
Bye.
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TelCon
Ron Ziegler/Mr. Kissinger
5:37 pm, Feb. 28, 1973
K:
Ron?
Z:
Hi, Henry.
K:
What's eating you.
Z:
Anything new.
K:
No.
Z:
Nothing at all.
K:
No, the message of today was on some other subject.
Z:
They haven't reacted to our statement.
K:
Well, let's see what happens in the Commission.
Z:
Yeah, but they are not going to meet tomorrow are they/
K:
Aren they.
Z:
No, they are not due to meet tomorrow.
K:
Well, then there's no plenirary session tomorrow. I've asked
Bunker to demand a meeting of the commision tomorrow.
Z:
Well, maybe they will. They were scheduled to meet Friday, so
they may meet tomorrow. We haven't heard back from Bunker.
K:
No.
Z:
Say, did Golda Meir meet with King Hussein.
K:
No.
Z:
Secretly.
K:
No, for Christ sakes. You mean here in Washington.
Z:
Yeah. Yesterday.
K:
The truth is they are lovers.
Z:
Now, seriously, Bill Gill's calling me and he said that theyb asked
Golda Meir whether or not she met with King Hussein yesterday
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-2-
here privately, and she said, Oh, you know about that already.
K:
He's pulling your leg.
Z:
He's not, Bill Gill
K:
Look, if she met with him, she'd never, never admit, it would be
suicide for both of them.
Z:
Yeah.
K:
She thought she was being funny.
Z:
Yeah, but I should tell Gill. - he's not asking--
K:
We have absolutely no reason to believe that if she did it, it
was kept a secret from everybody which is impossible, given
all the security she's got.
Z:
Okay.
K:
Good.
Z:
Okay, thanks.
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TelCon
Amb. Rabin/Mr Kissinger
6:15 pm, Feb. 28, 1973
K:
Mr. Ambassador!
R:
How are you?
K:
Okay. This is not one of your better days, is it?
R:
No. The vote at the U. N., really I can't understand, it can't
be done now, really this is serious.
K:
We tried to do something but it was too late. Lenny Down
called us.
R:
I see. We vote for the condemnation, but at the same time to
ask for requiring commission. It defeats the purpose of it.
How can he condemn on the one hand and ask for an international
inquiry commission. It like you told somebody you hate to be
blamed but in addition to that, we are going to inquiry. What
does it mean? And that you vote for it! ! I can't understand,
it's really is almost sabotage. You'll have to say something
about it in public too.
K:
Of course.
R:
Now, I think, we just came back from the Pentagon. It was not
good. What time do you want to meet?
K:
Oh, 7:00.
R:
I hope I'll make it..
K:
Well, make it 7:15.
R:
7:15 is better. Where?
K:
Map Room
R:
Fine.
K:
Good, see you then.
R:
Fine.
K:
Bye.
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TELCON
George Shultz/Mr. Kissinger
6:27 p.m., February 28, 1973
S:
Henry, the more I think about the Sonnenfeldt idea, the better it seems
to me.
K:
Okay.
S:
I wonder how you are reacting to it?
K:
I react very favorably to it.
S:
It would be extremely helpful to me if he were to go on this trip with me.
Would that be possible?
K:
Certainly.
S:
Would you want to tell him?
K:
Let me talk to him tomorrow. When are you going?
S:
Would leave March 8th and be back March 22nd.
K:
Yeah. Let me talk to him. Would you promise him that position before-
hand or indicate that it's likely?
S:
The President knows him fairly well I understand.
K:
Yeah, but you better let me talk to the President first because he's a
little ambivalent.
S:
Well, before anything is said to him I would like to know that the
President's on board.
I don't want to bring it up with the President.
I think it might be well if you did.
K:
Okay. Good. I'll do that tomorrow.
S:
All right. And you'll tell Sonnenfeldt about the trip?
K:
Right.
S:
Okay.
Thank you.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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George Shultz/Mr. Kissinger
6:27 p.m., February 28, 1973
K:
Have you talked to Cooper?
S:
Yes, and he seemed to be very pleased with the discussion and said he
was hoping to see you today or tomorrow.
K:
Were you impressed with him?
S:
Yeah, I think he's a good guy. Yeah. And his only problem he said
was his family problem. He knew he was going to have to work very hard
if he takes this job and he has to square that away with his wife and so on.
K:
Right.
have to
S:
So I said well, that's right, you will work hard and you might as well go
into it with your eyes open.
K:
That's right. No, there's no sense having anyone work for me on another
premise.
S:
Yeah.
K:
Okay.
S:
Very good. See you tomorrow morning.
K:
Right.
Bye.
wgh
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TelCon
6:28, Feb. 28, 1973
Ambassador Cromer/Mr. Kissinger
K:
Hello.
C:
Henry.
K:
Rollie, I have called off the dogs for tomorrow. Will you then
show some patience with us when it comes around the track again.
C:
Oh, yes, sure.
K:
And I will get our people together to see if we can get some
sanity into the procedures. Because I think on the objectives
we are not in disagreement.
C:
I don't suppose at all on disagreements, purely on tactics and
we're saddened, not angry.
K:
You're frightened. You have no reason to be.
C:
No not frightened, I said saddened.
K:
Oh, saddened--
C:
Because they are without
K:
Now, Rollie, one other thing. We have instructed our Embassy
in London to make aur presentations to you tomorrow.
C:
Yes, good.
K:
Now, I cannot guarantee that we can turn off our Ambassador in
24 hours once he's pointed in this.
C:
Oh, that's all right.
K:
So, you keep in mind what I'm telling you supersedes the.
C:
Yes, surely. As long as your instructions get to Brussels-
K:
No, no, Brussels is taken care of.
C:
And the other?
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-2-
K:
Well, wherever the instructions are sent
-
C:
You see, the NATO meeting and there's this guy Dean in Vienna.
K:
Okay, we'll
C:
It's the guy Dean that's the one that's been
K:
We'll get them both under control.
C:
Of course, we'll be as patient as necessary and would like to
work very closely with you.
K:
Good. A good meeting this afternoon?
C:
I think so.
K:
Good, thank you.
C:
Good, thank you so much.
K:
Bye.
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TELCON
Secretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger
6:32 p.m., February 28, 1973
R:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Ken, you called me earlier.
R:
Henry, I called you to tell you about my talk with Mrs. Meir.
K:
Oh, yes. You talked to Scowcroft.
R:
I gave it to Scowcroft.
K:
Well, the Israelis are totally up in arms about our condemning them.
R:
Oh, are they?
K:
Yeah. I hadn't understood that this Icao condemned them before there
is an investigation.
R:
Well, this is the very thing, Henry, that we've dissociated ourselves
entirely from the Preamble. The Preamble says "condemn" and Scali
pushed very hard to have instead of condemn the Israeli action, it was
"deplore" the action. I've had no report back from him but the last I
heard was that there is absolutely no support in at all for that. Then
when the Resolution came to a -- was to come to a vote authorizing the
investigation, Scali was to entirely dissociate himself from the Preamble
mention of "condemnation" but vote for the investigation, which means
he had to vote for the Resolution.
K:
Yeah.
R:
When our people briefed the Israelis about this, and also at the UN, they
were quite calm and relaxed about the whole thing. Then at the very end
of our lunch, which was a very interesting one and vigorous one but very
well I thought, Rabin who strangely enough was acting -- he was really
almost rude to Mrs. Meir - - it was quite strange. But I'll tell you a bit
more about that in a moment. He brought up the Icao. It was obvious that
she had not been briefed on it at all and I explained to her why we felt we
had to vote for the Resolution and told her how we were dissociating our-
selves entirely, not only from the condemnation but doing everything we
By NARA, Date
Per Hr. 11-20-2013
could to have that removed from the Preamble and the changes. So she
got a bit emotional and didn't think we should ever condemn them for
E.O. 13526, Section 3.5
DECLASSIFIED
anything and I said we weren't condemning, we were dissociating ourselves
from it but that our credibility in terms of trying to bring discipline to
the air, in terms of trying to bring about negotiations between the Israelis
of
and the Arabs and would be undermined if we did not vote for it. Everyone
else is going to vote for it except the Israelis and maybe Costa Rica or
someone like that. I didn't mention that we would be isolated with regard
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Secretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger
- 2 -
6:32 p.m., February 28, 1973
R:
(cont'd) to the 25%. It would hurt us there very seriously because I
knew that would not appeal to her. But I did mention that all of our
people felt that our vote against it also would probably result in very
action by the Libyans against our installations in Libya and
possibly attacks on our aircraft. But she felt quite emotional about it
and obviously had not been briefed at all by her people on it. They just
told her about it. Now the interesting thing is, Henry, when she came
in, we went to my office and had a very pleasant discussion about -- I told
her all about our talks with Ismail and also with Hussein. We then threw
the lunch. Rabin whenever Mrs. Meir was talking, both before we went
into lunch and afterward, he kept saying this is a business lunch. He
would shuffle his papers and look at his watch when she was talking, you
know she likes to talk, and he would interrupt her at one point after
another. We took up the production of planes, the supply of planes, the
Iraqi treatment of Jews and to what degree could we help and the exit
tax and the entire problem with regard to Russia. All in all, this went
along very well. We had very nice toasts. They grasped it well and then
she just brought up this. Up to that time she showed no -- she knew all
about it all the time. It wasn't something she just learned. She knew it
when she came in.
K:
Well, I thought I would hear something from her during the day. When
I didn't, I thought it was all worked out.
R:
Well, we thought it was too.
K:
Well, okay. Don't let's worry about it, it's done.
R:
I don't know what else we could have done really, Henry.
K:
Yeah. I don't know either. Look, Cromer called me and said that
Rumsfeld was as anesthetic today as ever.
R:
Well, he was not supposed to have been. I'm sending a cable out
tonight, which your office is resisting and I told them if they did resist
it, for you to call me. Sending a cable out telling them that our big
problem has been that we wanted to avoid a stalemate, which we felt
sure we would lose with the Russians, and if we turned it into a publicity
item which we are sure to have to give way, it would mean of course
that we enter the negotiations looking over-anxious and weak. This
procedural thing -- this should be treated as a procedural thing, although
we do know it's substantive, of course, and not be turned into a big issue.
But now it turns out, we say in the cable, that instead our allies are
misinterpreting this somewhat and feeling that we are bringing pressure
to bear on them and that this we do not want to do and we're not going to
make any more demarches in capitals for the time being. We will take
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Secretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger
- 3 -
6:32 p.m., February 28, 1973
R:
(cont'ed) our time to work this thing out.
K:
You know, our time -- a couple of weeks.
R:
Sure. I didn't say a couple of weeks but this is the case.
K:
No, no; that is what you should have in mind.
R:
Exactly. But your people are against this cable. We were having trouble
with JCS too. But to get the thing clearly in mind, I wanted to put it on
the record in the cable.
K:
Okay, I'll get my people to clear it.
R:
Tell them to clear it, would you, Henry?
K:
Yeah.
R:
Okay.
K:
Good. Thank you, Ken.
R:
Fine, Henry. See you soon.
K:
We're having lunch Friday.
R:
We're having lunch Friday.
K:
Look forward to it. Where are we doing that, you r office at mine.
R:
At yours. Well, I'd love to have you in mind if you'd like to come over.
K:
Whichever you think is more efficient.
R:
Well, I would be delighted for you to come over to the State Department.
K:
I'll come over.
R:
That would be very nice.
K:
It's a terrible comedown for me.
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Secretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger
- 4 -
6:32 p.m., February 28, 1973
R:
Well, that's the point.
K:
of locale but not of person.
R:
I'm afraid --
K:
But you will be Acting Secretary that day, won't you because --
R:
I will be Acting Secretary.
Well,
/
K:
That makes it possible.
R:
We will be able to eat in the Secretary's dining room.
K:
Okay.
R:
Henry, I might just tell you this -- in case you want to see the President.
I'm writing this to you -- The Israelis pressed very, very hard with
regard to producing planes. I told them that we were studing it very
carefully, that there were many angles involved and that frankly, I
thought in this emotion-charged atmosphere of the Libyan planes, to
announce this would not be to their advantage or to our advantage but
that that had nothing to do with our studing it and that we were studing
it very sympathetically and while we couldn't say yes as of now, certainly
we were not being negative in any way. That this is an issue of course
that would reach the President. They also pushed very hard with regard
to trying to get the 36 Thou from the 30 Phantoms. You know, our plan
is to say --
K:
Yeah, I know it.
R:
I told them that the big thing was for us to try to supply on a steady basis
whatever is sufficient to keep them strong because their strength has kept
the Middle East ceasefire in effect. And that we might even want to study
instead of the sporadic crisis things, which have been true in the past,
the program over the next four years or five years or over a longer
period. We might not think this advisable but it should be studied. And
that we therefore were not in the position to give a decision right now
but that politically and every other way, there was no change and we
intended to support them and be steadfast in their support. Now it could
very well be that if the President sees fit to do so, because of this Icao
thing and in order that she can take ething back with here, the
President would want to tell them now that we are going to if they want
to go ahead, as she says they do want to, on the production of the planes,
we will see to it that they do get an affirmative answer in the proper time.
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Secretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger
- 5 -
6:32 p.m., February 28, 1973
K:
Okay.
R:
I think that might be --
K:
Might be a wise idea.
R:
Might help make her feel good.
K:
Good.
R:
Okay, Henry. Bye.
K:
bye.
wgh
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TelCon
Scotty Reston/Mr. Kissinger
6:45 pm, Feb. 28, 1973
K:
Hello.
R:
Henry.
K:
Oh, Scotty, h;0w are you.
R:
Fine, how are you.
K:
Okay.
R:
I see you' re recovered from your long trip.
K:
Yes, I guess I'm pretty well back in shape.
R:
I congratulate you. It was a marvelous tatrip.
K:
It really was the best trip since the first one to China. I
mean the China part. The Hanois are more delecate and
complex situation.
R:
Yeah, well, you know, it'll go on that way, it's awful
complex in the South too.
K:
That's right. Excactly right. Can we have lunch, breakfast or--
R:
Oh sure, any time.
K:
I had the impression you weren't free this week.
R:
Well I've got to go to Buffalo tomorrow, and then I'll beback
on Friday for Meir's lunch, and then any time.
K:
You want to do it Monday. Breakfast or lunch, whichever
you prefer.
R:
Let's have breakfast.
K:
Good, at the Metropolican Club?
R:
Right.
K:
We can have breakfast and we can talk also about the interview
which we still have hanging.
R:
All right, fine. What time is best for you.
K:
About 8:15.
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2
R:
8:15 is fine.
K:
Good. I forget whether you live anywhere near - - how do you
get down.
R:
I've got a ride down.
K:
You have, I would have offered to drop by.
R:
Well, where are you.
K:
I'm on Mass. avenue near the Mosque, Waterside drive.
R:
Well, I think you'd have to hook back. I'll see you at 8:15.
K:
8:15 at the Metro Club.
R:
Thank you Henry.
K:
Good, bye.
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TelCon
The President/Mr. Kissinger
6:50 pm, Feb. 28, 1973
K:
Mr. President.
P:
Hi, Henry, anything new before I have to prepare for the
Governor.
K:
No. We got a long message from the NVN today which
avoided the prisoners issue completely, just bitching about
mining. I think they have raised enough issues on which we
can give them satisfaction.
P:
Uh humm. Bitching about the mining, not our decision, but--
K:
No, no, bitching about the fact that we were going too slowly.
which is partially true because I had told them to go slowly
so, that I know, we can speed up.
P:
Uh humm.
K:
And, we'll give them an answer tomorrow.
P:
Yeah. What is your dissipation then, that it will drag on through
the weekend perhaps, or --
K:
No, because we won't go to the session tomorrow if they don't
do something. We've asked Bunker to ask for a meeting of
the Joint Military Commission tomorrow.
P:
Yeah.
K:
It's bound to meet on Friday. My guess it will be settled
by Friday.
P:
Hummm.
K:
No later than Friday.
P:
Do they have to have a meeting of the Commission in order
for the thing to meet.
K:
They just sent over the list.
P:
That's my point. Well, what--
K:
I've read now the conversation between the Secretary and
Sinh, and the guy was trying to snooker us.
P:
He was?
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2
K:
Yeah, he said that they would all be released in 60 days,
and they'll be released in four installments, but he didn't
say these installments would be in 15 days.
P:
Yeah.
K:
So, he's just given a little twist to what he said.
P:
Uh humm.
K:
And that the Commission would work out the time of the
installments.
P:
But that was in the Protocal already wasn't it.
K:
That's right. Absolutely, the Protocol said no question
even the New York Times said we are right.
P:
Uh humm. Well they are just kinda horsing around, isn't
that it. But/Ken would have never told Rogers it would seem
to me.
K:
No, I know these bastards, what they would have do ne next
is to argue that these four installments can all be in the last
week.
P:
Yeah, in order to keep our nose to the grindstone.
K:
To keep our nose to ghe grindstone. That's how they would
have played it.
P:
Well, let us suppose, just as a contengency, that this fellow--
that they don't furnish the list and Rogers just has to stonewall
at that meeting--
K:
He just can't go to the meeting, and that mobilize others
against the NVN.
P:
It should, shouln't it. On this issue--
K:
Domestically, I think our defending the POW's cannot lose.
P:
That's right. People don't give a damn about the conference.
They care a great deal about the POW's.
K:
And we take the position, what's the sense of endorsing
an agreement that's being broken.
P:
Right.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
3
P:
Okay, then I am planning as you know on this press thing,
I don't plan anything before Monday.
But I plan to go
Monday.
K:
I think by Monday, it will either be a lot worse or solved.
P:
If it's a lot worse, we won't go at all. Or we may.
K:
I think it's going to solved.
P:
Okay.
K:
Right, Mr. President.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
The President/Mr. Kissinger
7:26 p.m., February 28, 1973
P:
Would there be any problem as far as when you talked to Chou En-lai.
He would have no objection if we recommended it to have the small
bi-partisan group of Governors. I mean, in other words, just something
that they naturally are tremendously interested in.
K:
But I don't think we can announce it as having been agreed to.
P:
Could we just say that we know a lot of them are interested and that
we hope that --
K:
That we'll take it up.
P:
That we'll be glad to take it up.
K:
That you can certainly say.
P:
I'll just simply say that this is a matter we have discussed and I notice
some of the Governors have expressed an interest and we will take the
matter up.
K:
That you can safely say.
P:
Fine. All right.
K:
Right, Mr. President.
wgh
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Joe Alsop/Mr. Kissinger
8:35 p.m., February 28, 1973
K:
Joe, I just remembered that I hadn't phoned you about --
A:
Doesn't matter a damn. I didn't think you were coming but if you would
like to come at the last minute, there's a place.
K:
No, no; I can't. But I want to note that your influence with Nancy is
greater than with me.
A:
(laughter)
K:
I told Nancy, moreover, that when you say me with another girl, you cut
me dead at the party --
A:
I did, yes. Quite right. (laughter) I didn't know who she was -- she
was rather pretty. But I regard her as part of the coree plasanyway.
K:
(laughter)
A:
And I'll see you on Sunday.
K:
Right.
A:
Very good.
K:
Bye.
wgh
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Ambassador Rabin (Israel)/Mr. Kissinger
11:15 p.m., February 28, 1973
R:
Hello.
K:
Mr. Ambassador.
R:
Yes, sorry to bother you but I believe that basically what we have
agreed in on -- that is to say, that the question of production agreement
of principle for at least 100.
K:
Right.
R:
Second, on the second item, an effort to meet our numbers otherwise
at least --
K:
I'll tell you, I will recommend the numbers but I don't believe it's an
agreement that would stick even if it were made because then the
Departments would raise hell.
R:
Well, I believe that as we discussed, you will try your best and the
minimum will be agreement on principle to supply the two kinds.
K:
Exactly.
R:
And the number -- every effort will be done.
K:
To come as close as possible to your number.
R:
Yeah.
K:
Exactly.
R:
Three, if we be asked about a private conversation on the two directions -
K:
You will agree to them?
R:
We will say well, we cannot say to you what you can do but we'll agree
on two conditions well, on two assumptions. One, that you will not
do anything behind our back.
K:
Right.
R:
I believe that we said --
K:
That's correct. You have it correctly.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Amb. Rabin/Mr. Kissinger
- 2 -
11:15 p.m., February 28, 1973
R:
And second, that nothing will be done to commit you to something
which will be completely unacceptable to us.
K:
Right. Right.
R:
If this good, everything is agreed on.
K:
Good. I think you can count on that. If there should be any problem I
will see the President at 9:00. I'll call you --
R:
I'll be there at 9:30.
K:
Good. I'll call you -- If for any reason you don't hear from me, you
can assume that it's in order as we discussed.
R:
I think it will be better - -
K:
Well, you see, if I'm in the President's office, it will be hard for me --
R:
I know.
K:
But I will do my utmost to call you.
R:
And I'll be at - -
K:
At Blair House.
Good, see you in the morning.
R:
Basically this another thing where
will be done in according to
what we have talked about.
K:
Right, the only victim of this arrangement will be I but don't let that
worry you.
R:
I'm sure you will find a way how to bail out.
K:
(laughter)
R:
Down a later stage at least.
K:
Somebody will catch up with me sometime.
R:
I think basically --
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
3
Amb. Rabin/Mr. Kissinger
- 2
11:15 p.m., February 28, 1973
K:
No, no; but the basic problem is the time problem, which we discussed
and it will serve that purpose.
R:
All right.
K:
Good, Mr. Ambassador. Give my best to the Prime Minster.
R:
All right.
K:
Good.
wgh
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
The President/Mr. Kissinger
11:30 p.m., February 28, 1973
K:
Mr. President.
P:
Oh, hi, Henry.
K:
Just wanted you to know we've won.
P:
Oh, really!
K:
Yep.
P:
That's great. Tell me about it!
K:
Well, they -- we called Bunker and told him to demand a meeting of
the Four Party Commission. They hadn't scheduled it until Friday.
They wanted to have an initialling of the -- In Paris they wanted to
have an initialling of the Treaty tomorrow afternoon and Rogers called
us and wept all over us that this would be awful if we didn't.
P:
Bullshit!
K:
That's what I said, that your orders were explicit; that you had
personally issued them.
P:
That's right.
K:
And that you --
P:
Well, does he really think that we could sign the treaty with having this
thing on -- nobody could do that.
K:
Well, he was so focussed on his Conference that he forgot the other game
Well, we then called Bunker Bunker insisted on a meeting. They held
the meeting and their spokesman said the way is now clear to continue
the releases, we will not demand anything difficult from the United States
side and it's as good as done.
P:
Say, you think that -- But he didn't give the names yet?
K:
No but -- Well, this was at the beginning of the meeting and the meeting
isn't concluded yet. The meeting just started about 15 minutes ago.
P:
Yeah.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
The President/Mr. Kissinger
- 2 -
11:30 p.m., February 28, 1973
K:
But when they go into the meeting and said the way is now clear to
continue the releases, all is ready to continue the releases he said.
P:
Yeah. Great.
K:
And all the news tickers say --
P:
Oh, how did this get out? Did Bunker put it out?
K:
No, Saigon -- the North Vietnamese fellow entering the meeting.
P:
Oh, he said that.
K:
He said it on the way in.
P:
Oh-h-h, great. So what are the news tickers saying, Henry?
K:
They say -- North Vietnam said today that the way is clear now to
resume releases of U.S. prisoners of war. That's the lead on --
P:
Yeah.
K:
AP. Reuter says the Chief Delegates -- The North Vietnamese
spokesman said at last all is ready to continue the releases.
P:
(laughter)
K:
And the spokesman was asked whether General Hoa carried into the
meeting a list of the next group of 120 Americans to be freed. We
will tell you later today, the Colonel said. Well, that's a sure tip off.
The fact that they agreed to a meeting. They also told us in Paris they
wanted us to have a discussion on the Economic Commission and Sullivan
called in and asked what he should do and I said tell them we are not
prepared to discuss it until the POWs are released. So they told him it
would be settled by Noon tomorrow, Paris time.
P:
Good, good.
K:
So I think it's 99% done.
P:
Um-humm.
K:
And if we had been anything other than --
P:
We wouldn't have had it.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
The President/Mr. Kissinger
- 3 -
11:30 p.m., February 28, 1973
K:
Never! They would have fiddled us along.
P:
Henry, you can be sure they were going to keep those people hostage.
What have they done up to date? That's the thing that Bill and the rest
have got to realize. They've been screwing us all the time. Now, they're
not going to do a thing and we'll continue to drag our feet in those mines
too.
K:
Mr. President, if we had let them drag -- If we had accepted what they
said this morning, that they would do it within the 60 days but in four
stages, they would have had the four stages all in the last three days.
P:
Um-humm.
K:
Now, your statement which forced them -- when you said this morning
it was within 15 days --
P:
Yeah, well, you put that in (laughter).
K:
No, but that --
P:
That's right, that's right.
K:
And your directing Rogers not to return, that did it.
P:
That's the point. But, you know, really for us to -- Believe me, we're
not going to give them one thing if they renege on one part of this deal.
Now, you know what I mean. This idea of going ahead -- What the hell
do we care about the Agreement. What the Christ do we care? Nothing.
K:
Mr. President, at the end of March when our prisoners are out, then we
are in great shape.
P:
That's right.
K:
And they thought they could diddle us along and get a little public outcry
started, focus it on Thieu.
P:
On Thieu. They were trying to do him in, Henry.
K:
That's right.
P:
That's it.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
The President/Mr. Kissinger
- 4 -
11:30 p.m., February 28, 1973
K:
And we just reacted very toughly. We sailed the whole mine sweeping
fleet away. We didn't just have it inactive.
P:
(laughter)
K:
We moved it a hundred miles off shore.
P:
That's the stuff! And don't think they didn't notice that.
K:
Oh-h-h. They don't usually cave unless you kick them in the groin.
P:
Well, I'm delighted. You know, we just have to, as we say, through
all the East keep our balance and --
K:
You said it this morning when the outcome wasn't clear.
P:
Yeah, yeah. You know, we've just got to do that. Now do you still
think that I should wait till Monday for my news
:
K:
Well, I don't know, Mr. President, whether you mightn't want to do
it Friday if this thing comes off in a clear cut way.
P:
Um-humm. In other words, right on top of it, huh?
K:
Why not?
P:
Could be.
K:
I mean, you'll have brought off another one. It's not as big as the
January one but still they tested you, you took charge and kept on course.
What are the nitpickers going to say now?
P:
Well, course I could say -- yeah.
K:
Well, let's see what was agreed to.
P:
Yeah. Well, we'll see. We'll see.
K:
By Monday, the thing will certainly be done.
P:
Be done by then. The only thing is, you do it Friday -- yourpoint is
that it's the bigger news and we might as well hit it while it's hot.
K:
Well, if they gave us the names of the prisoners tomorrow, I'll be half
inclined to do it tomorrow. You'd rather do it Friday?
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
The President/Mr. Kissinger
- 5 -
11:30 p.m., February 28, 1973
P:
Yeah, I see your point. And they just walk out there -- Because you see
another thing too, Henry, as you realize some of our critics have got
out on a limb again. You notice that this morning the Times and the rest
this Sylvan Fox had these stories saying this thing is all going to hell.
Have you noticed?
K:
Exactly.
P:
Didn't you have that sense of
that they were trying to --
K:
Oh, yeah, they were trying to gin something up again.
P:
Um-humm. Well, good. What time do we meet tomorrow?
K:
At 11:00, and I have worked something out with her and the Ambassador,
which I think you might consider, and it also would have the support of
the equipment side of the Defense and State Department, who have come
in with an independent recommendation very similar to it.
P:
Right, right, fine. Why don't we move that time up to 10:30? What
do you think? Don't you think we need a little more time with her than
just an hour and a half.
K:
Oh, I think you can do it in an hour and a half.
P:
I think you're right too. It's all in English, that's right.
K:
Right.
P:
And also the point is, I'm going to get her in the right channel. She's
not going to just sit there -- you're going to talk about this damn thing
and she knows.
K:
Oh, yes, she'll be all right. I think -- it took some doing but I think
she's --
P:
Okay.
K:
Right, Mr. President.
P:
I'm glad to hear this thing.
K:
Well, congratulations.
wgh
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
telcon
Ron Ziegler/Mr. Kissinger
11:35 p.m., February 28, 1973
K:
Ron, it looks as if our little yellow darlings have caved.
Z:
Oh, you're kidding.
K:
No.
Z:
Oh, that's wonderful.
K:
When you play with your friends here, it usually turns out all right.
Z:
Gee, that's great.
K:
I called Bunker and told him to demand a meeting of the Four Power
Commission. They said Friday. I said the hell with it and drop
discussions on the Economic Commission too so they agreed to meet
at 11:00, which is now. But on the way in they said everything is now
ready for releases. So I'm sure that it's going to be done.
Z:
That's perfect, isn't it?
K:
So what you said is standing up very well.
Z:
Yes, it sure is. I think it's going to work.
K:
Oh, yeah. They just didn't have the cards this time.
Z:q
Yeah.
K:
A year from now when I'm out of here, they're really going to put it to
us. Not for that reason but a year from now,they're going to be tigers
but now they're not ready.
Z:
Well, if this works Kissinger --
K:
Oh, no, this is going to work. This I was positive on. Maybe not today
but It will work tonight I'm sure.
Z:
You think so?
K:
Oh, yeah. By this time tomorrow, it will be all done.
Z:
If it is, it's a good piece of work.
K:
Well, Ziegler, you played your invaluable role. Really, your briefing
today was -- met even with my approval, and that's almost impossible.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Ron Ziegler/Mr. Kissinger
- 2 -
11:35 p.m., February 28, 1973
Z:
(laughter)
K:
No, you did it just right and you gave it the right tone of menace both
yesterday and today, as well as conciliation. It worked very well.
Z:
Well, thanks, Henry.
K:
Okay, Ron.
Z:
Thanks for calling to let me know.
K:
Okay. Bye.
wgh
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
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"ocrText": "DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]\nDOCUMENT\nDOCUMENT\nSUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS\nDATE\nRESTRICTION\nNUMBER\nTYPE\n1\nTelan\nHAW Rush\n5pgs\n2/28/73\nB\nMANDATORY REVIEW REQUEST NLN 08-47/12361\nDECLASSIFIED Hr. 11-20-2013\nFILE GROUP TITLE\nBOX NUMBER\nHAN Telephone Converstion\nChron File\n18\nFOLDER TITLE\n1973\n27-28 Feb 10\nRESTRICTION CODES\nA. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.\nE. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or\nB. National security classified information.\nfinancial information.\nC. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's\nF. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law\nenforcement purposes.\nD. rights. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted the Richard Nixon Presiden G. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.\nor a libel of a living person.\nWilliam and returned non-historical material.\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed-pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nDOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]\nDOCUMENT\nDOCUMENT\nNUMBER\nTYPE\nSUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS\nDATE\nRESTRICTION\n1\nTelcon\nHAW 1 Rush\n1 5pgs\n2/28/73\nB\nFILE GROUP TITLE\nBOX NUMBER\nHAH Telephone Converstion\nChron File\n18\nFOLDER TITLE\n1973\n27-28 Fab\n10\nRESTRICTION CODES\nA. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.\nE. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or\nB. National security classified information.\nfinancial information.\nC. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's\nF. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law\nrights.\nenforcement purposes.\nD. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy\nG. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.\nor a libel of a living person.\nH. Withdrawn and returned non-historical material.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nNA 14021 (4-85)\nNIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS PROJECT\nDOCUMENT CONTROL RECORD\nITEM REMOVED FROM THIS FILE FOLDER\nA RESTRICTED DOCUMENT OR CASE FILE HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM\nTHIS FILE FOLDER. FOR A DESCRIPTION OF THE ITEM REMOVED\nAND THE REASON FOR ITS REMOVAL, CONSULT DOCUMENT ENTRY\nNUMBER 5 ON EITHER THE DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD\n(GSA FORM 7279 OR NA FORM 1421) OR NARA WITHDRAWAL SHEET\n(GSA FORM 7122) LOCATED IN THE FRONT OF THIS FILE FOLDER.\nA sanitized copy substituted for an original item which\ncontains information restricted under the Privacy Act.\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION\nNLN Form 101 (revised 6-85)\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nSecretary Richardson/Dr. Kissinger\n2-27-73 8:48 a.m.\nR: Hello.\nK:\nHello.\nR:\nI thought I might relay to you what he says.\nthe conversation\nthrough the Command Center here focussed on the question of\nthe credibility of the spokesman for Hanoi in Saigon. He says\nin effect that the press spokesman N\nTinh (?) and the\nDeputy Director of their delegation to the Four Power Joint\nCommission and the Head of the delegation General Wah(?)\nare all in his view very simply mouth pieces for an orchestrated\nprocess directed by Hanoi. He thinks there is no question about\nthat at all and that therefore dealing directly with them would not\nchange the course of things.\nK:\nRight, Well I\nR:\nFurther, I haven't seen it, I gather that Bunker has sent a\ncable on this.\nHave you seen it?\nK:\nNo.\nR:\nI was trying to get a copy of it.\nK:\nNo we haven't normalized relations with State yet. But I am\nestablishing a liaison office there.\nR:\nWell I can serve that much for you Henry.\nK:\nOkay I'll get it.\nR:\nThat's about all I know. You have I assume.\nK:\nWell the President is thinking of making a statement at his\npress conference today.\nR:\nWell we were just talking about that. I personally think that is\na good idea\nK:\nAnd he is planning to be very tough.\nR:\nI think - you know - it would seem to me that this is the\ntime for him to say something and that it should be tough.\nWe thought he might want to say that he directed the suspension\nof minesweeping operations.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nSec Richardson/Dr. Kissinger\n2-27-73, 8:48 a. m.\nPage 2\nK:\nAlright.\nR:\nThat it seems to me that we were about to get underway\nwith the aerial sweeping today. So it is a very direct\nreaction and I would think - well I don't need to improvise\nwhat he could say but it would seem to me that that would\nbe a good thing.\nK:\nGood, I think that's right. We were thinking along the\nsame lines.\nR:\nIf it is decided that he will or doesn't want to have the\nminesweeping operation suspended. Of course it is\n9:00 their time now almost.\nK:\nPll let you know within the hour.\nR:\nOkay. Could you have the release - what they gave out in\nSaigon.\nK:\nOur people, yes.\nR:\nYes.\nK:\nI have that. Okay I have got to get it altogther for the President\nbecuase if my people aren't working on China they don't volunteer\nwork.\nR:\nOkay. Well that's all I have.\nK:\nOkay, good. I'll call you back around ten.\nR:\nFine.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nAmb Sullivan/Dr. Kissinger\n2-27-73, 8:58 a. m.\nK:\nHello.\nS:\nHi Henry.\nK:\nBill, I have a President who is going through the ceiling here,\nbecause McCloskey said that not all the violations are on our\nside that were shown on television.\nS:\nHe said what?\nK:\nMcCloskey said not all the violations of the ceasefire are on\nour side. Would you mind instructing him that - to take a\nmore offensive position.\nS:\nI haven't heard what he said.\nK:\nIt was on television - we saw it.\nS:\nYeah.\nK:\nI mean this was not somebody transcribing it. This was on\nsatellite.\nS:\nYeah. Good Lord! Alright I'll get hold of him.\nK:\nNow, what do we know about the prisoners?\nS:\nWell that's what I wanted to ask you. We, here have the impression\nthat they are refusing to\nand make the releases\nuntil their small petty conditions are satisified and we want to know\nwhat position you want us to take on it.\nK:\nWell, they haven't officially said yet what their conditions are.\nS:\nWell you see the news said which suggests\nmade by\na Colonel Tinh.\nK:\nYes, that's all we have. It's got mostly to do with the living\nconditions there.\nS:\nThe point is what you want us to do about it. So far, I have held\noff.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nAmb Sullivan/Dr. Kissinger\n2-27-73, 8:58 a. m.\nPage 2\nK:\nWhy was the plenary session cancelled tomorrow?\nS:\nTomorrow? It was not cancelled, it never was scheduled.\nThe idea was that tomorrow would be the day in which there\nwould bilateral efforts to push along the drafting on the\nK:\nNow what you should do is call an urgent meeting with Thach.\nS:\nI am going to be in with Thach anyway. The question is should\nwe have at a higher level should we have the Secretary make\na meeting with Tho so that it becomes public knowledge.\nK:\nWhat do you think?\nS:\nWe are getting a lot of questions from the press as to what\nour attitude is on the prisoners and we have been waiting for\nsome guidance from what you are going to take there. Are\nyou going to take a tough position, or are you going to\nK:\nAbsolutely. We are going to take a very tough position.\nS:\nSo it is a public position that you demand that they fulfill\nand no conditions attached and all that sort of thing.\nK:\nThat's right.\nS:\nWell we have to seem to be doing something here because there\nare two questions: one, as to what McCloskey says to the press\non which we had no guidance yet and the second thing is whether\nthe Secretary should ask for and demand a meeting with\nand we let it be known publicly and I think that probably needs\nto be done.\nK:\nWhy don't you wait until 11:00 when the President may say something.\nS:\nThe President is going to say something at 11:00?\nK:\nHe may.\nS:\nMay, that's let's see what time are we now?\nK:\nThat's two hours from now.\nS:\nTwo hours from now?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nAmb Sullivan/Dr. Kissinger\n2-27-73, 8:58 a. m.\nPage 3\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nAlright, well anyway as far as McCloskey is concerned he\ncan say something very tough and very positive. Right?\nK:\nThat's right.\nS:\nAnd then the question of whethery the Secretary demands\na\nK:\nI'll X call you and you should tell Thach that they had better\nnot monkey around with it.\nS:\nAlright, I'll be seeing him in a couple of hours - about three\nhours. But the question is whether the Secretary should make\na - whether we should let that **** problicslyx be known publicly.\nIt seems to me to have.\nK:\nNot before the President has spoken if he doesn't interfere\nwith the flow of publicity.\nS:\nI cannot hear you.\nK:\nI said we just as soon let the President speak first.\nS:\nAbsolutely, yes. Since he is contact here there has to be some\nmotion here.\nK:\nI know but we'd prefer to have the President push the Secretary\nrather than the other way around.\nS:\nI understand. We'll wait until we hear from you.\nK:\nSo why don't you wait until 11:00.\nS:\nWait until 11:00 but also wait until we hear in a telephone\ncall that you want him to do it.\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nGood. We'll be here then waiting for you.\nK:\nExcellent.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nSec Richardson/Dr. Kissinger\n2-27-73, 9:58 a.m.\nK:\nElliot?\nR:\nYes, Henry.\nK:\nThe President wants to suspend mining and to suspend withdrawals\nbut not announce it. Then we can confirm it.\nR:\nAlright. We'll get word out right away.\nK:\nTell the PAOs to restrain their enthusiasm.\nR:\nNow when is he.\nK:\nHe isn't going to say it himself - Ziegler will say it at 11:00.\nBut he won't announce it - he will just do it.\nR:\nWhat will Ziegler do?\nK:\nZiegler will just make a very tough statement and say that\nRogers has been instructed to conduct no further business in\nParis until this issue is clarified.\nR:\nOkay. No one will say anything about the suspension.\nK:\nNo, but you can confirm it. You should do your best not\nto have it triggered too fast.\nR:\nOkay.\nK:\nI mean don't let the public inquery trigger it too fast.\nR:\nI see.\nK:\nBut we will notify the North Vietnamese of this.\nR:\nOkay, good.\nK:\nOkay?\nR:\nYes, good. When is the President going?\nK:\nHe is not going Elliot today because of this. Zielger is doing it.\nR:\nOh, I see.\nK:\nHe may not go on now until tomorrow.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nSec Richardson/Dr. Kissinger\n2-27-73, 9:58 a.m.\nPage 2.\nR:\nI had originally planned to have a press conference today\nwhich I was not going to do. I think I had better put it off\nanyway.\nK:\nWell he's not going today.\nR:\nWell the question is should I? Do you have any feelings on that?\nIf I do I'll get - this will dominate it. Mixtxbex Might be better\nto have it handled in one place.\nK:\nWell we wouldn't object to your making some tough statements\nabout it.\nR:\nWell alright we'll think about that.\nK:\nOkay Elliot, I've got Sullivan on the other line.\nR:\nOkay.\nK:\nGoodbye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nAmb Sullivan/Dr. Kissinger\n2-27-73, 10:00 a. m.\nK:\nHello.\nS:\nHello, Henry?\nK:\nYes, Bill. Here's what we are going to do. We are going\nto make a rather touch statement at 11:00 by Ziegler.\nAnd the end of it says that the Secretary of State has been instructed to\nconducted no other business at the Conference until this issue is\nclarified and he can approach the Foreign Minister demanding a\nclarification.\nS:\nAlright. I have seen McCoskey since I talked with you. He says\nhe can get the press together right after Ziegler goes at 5:00 here.\nK:\nWell, let's say 6:00 then. At your place.\nS:\nAlright we'll say 6:00 and you can give them two barrels.\nWe can give them one on the POW's and we can give them\nanother on violations if you wish me to.\nK:\nAbsolutely.\nS:\nDo both.\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nAnd we will also have the Secretary ask for an appointment\nwith Phuong(?) to make a protest in accordance with the\nstatement Ron Ziegler will make.\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nShall we let that be publicly known that he asked for that\nappointment?\nK:\nWell what do you think? Will that make it very tough for them\nto back down?\nS:\nWell I think we shouldn't let it be known until we actually\nhave the appointment. If we have the appointment, we can\nlet it be known.\nK:\nOkay, well you shouldn't ask for the appointment until\nafter the Ziegler has spoken.\nS:\nWell, if we ask for it before we are more likely to get it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nAmb Sullivan/Dr. Kissinger\n2-27-73, 10:00 a.m.\nPage 2\nK:\nWell if we don't get it so what? We are going to send a\nmessage anyway in addition.\nS:\nAlright, we'll until after 5:00 we probably won't get it until\ntomorrow morning. Is that alright?\nK:\nYeah. I'm thinking how wise it is to have that high level of\na confrontation. What do you think?\nS:\nWell, as long as that man doesn't have any\nto\nrefer it back home.\nK:\nWhy don't we wait until Ziegler has made his statement.\nS:\nAlright, we'll wait until he has made his statement.\nAnd I'll have Bob speak on both counts, right?\nK:\nExactly.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSecretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger\n10:45 m., February 27, 1973\nK:\nHello, Bill. I've just been talking to Bill Sullivan --\nR:\nI know that. I'd appreciate it if you'd speak to me.\nK:\nOkay, I just thought he could transmit it more easily.\nR:\nYeah. I have serious reservation about making any statement about\ncancelling the Conference.\nK:\nHe didn't say -- There's no issue of cancelling the Conference.\nR:\nWell, maybe I didn't get the signals straight then.\nK:\nOh, no. What he said is -- What he's going to say is that he's asking\nyou to demand clarification.\nR:\nYes, I understand.\nK:\nAnd to conduct no other business until you've received that clarification.\nR:\nWell, on that one, why don't we just say the first until - I mean, if we\nstart saying things like that, we're going to have the other governments\njust say to go to hell. They're not too happy about it anyway. It seems to\nme I ought to be able to have the opportunity to talk to the other side.\nHonest. And then if it's unsatisfactory, then start making threats.\nBut you'll find that some of the other parties are fed up anyway with the\nwhole idea of the Conference and they'll just say well, you fellows have it,\nwe're going home.\nYou follow me?\nK:\nYeah. Let me raise it with the President.\nR:\nIt seems to me you can say the same thing and the same sense of urgency\nwithout the threat. I'd rather not on the phone go into the details but\nyou'll find that a couple of these governments will just leave. If we start\nsaying that without checking with them, they will just\nK:\nWell, I would doubt that but still you\nR:\nI'm here, I can tell you that. I just had two conversations I don't want\nto go into it on the phone but I know that's what the situation is.\nK:\nOkay. Let me check it with the President right away.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger\n- 2 -\n10:45 a. m., February 27, 1973\nR:\nOne of them has gone already and he says he might come back but\nbelieve me, that's a fact.\nK:\nIs that a government?\nR:\nWell, I mean the Foreign Minister.\nK:\nOh, really. From where?\nR:\nWell, there's Britain. And they just said they're leaving and he'll be\nback maybe Thursday night for the ceremony but if we start saying to\nthem without telling them or without consulting with them that we're not\ngoing to conduct any business, then -- You really can't understand how\nfed up, the British particularly, are with the Conference unless you were\nhere.\nK:\nYeah.\nR:\nAnd I don't see any point if we can say that tomorrow. If I see Trend\ntonight, then we're dissatisfied, we can say the same thing in the morning.\nK:\nWell, we should wait with Trend -- We have a message that they're\nsending to us, which I'm going to re-transmit to you immediately.\nR:\nHenry, you want to speak a little louder, I have trouble hearing you.\nK:\nI say, we're getting a message from them, which I'm going to get re-\ntransmitted to you immediately and I think you should hold up seeing him\nuntil we know what that message says.\nR:\nHello.\nK:\nWhich we'll get at about 9 o'clock your time.\nR:\nHenry.\nK:\nHello.\nR:\nYeah, I'm having a little trouble hearing you.\nK:\nI'm saying, Bill, you shouldn't see Trend until we've had a message from\nthem which is on the way.\nR:\nYou want to speak a little louder -- I'm having trouble hearing you.\nK:\nLet's put in the call again -- I'm speaking as loud as I can.\nwoh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSecy Rogers/Mr. Kissinger\n10:55 a.m., February 27, 1973\nR:\nHenry, I can hear you now.\nWell, I gather then what you have in mind\nis not saying anything for the moment about not conducting any business.\nK:\nWell, I haven't been able to reach the President yet on that but I guess\nhe'll go along with it if that's your judgment.\nR:\nYeah, it is. We can do that later if we decide that that's --\nK:\nWell, it looks a little weak though to have a Presidential statement that\nyells and screams and then says all we've done is ask for clarification.\nR:\nWell, no, I think you can say more than that but it doesn't seem to me\nthat he ought to say that In the first place, we have nothing to do\ntomorrow anyway and it seems to me you can say something to the effect\nif the clarification is not satisfactory, then we'll have to consider what\nto do. Something of that kind.\nK:\nRight. Okay.\nR:\nBut I think if you put it the other way, you'll find that it will really be\nunacceptable to several other countries here.\nK:\nWell, if that's your judgment, we have to abide by that.\nR:\nNow, a couple of other things, on the business about what Bob McCloskey\nshould say, I have thought about whether he ought to go into details about\nviolations. My thought would be just to make a general indictment.\nK:\nThat's right. I agree with that. We weren't all that eager on the violations,\njust so that it didn't look that we were in a totally defensive position.\nR:\nYeah. Okay. Well, we'll see. Ron, is he going to have a prepared\nstatement?\nK:\nYes. And we've given it to the Secretariat but we'll have to modify it now\nin the light of our conversation.\nR:\nAll right. Now, I won't try to see Trend until after 8:00 p.m. tonight.\nK:\nWell, why don't you wait until we transmit to you, which should be around\n8:00 - 8:30, the message which they're sending to us and then you'll know\nwhat the situation is.\nR:\nYeah.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecy Rogers/Mr. Kissinger\n- 2 -\n10:55 m., February 27, 1973\nK:\nBecause otherwise you'll be flying blind.\nR:\nThat's right.\nK:\nSo if you could wait and we'll phone you as soon as we have the message\nand then ask for the appointment.\nR:\nOkay. Fine. One of my problems is I'm going to have dinner with\nGromyko tonight. Mrs. Rogers and I are going to have dinner with him\nand Mrs. Gromyko.\nK:\nWell, then why don't you ask for the appointment for tomorrow morning.\nR:\nWell, we can do that.\nK:\nYou know, I don't think much can happen tonight anyway.\nR:\nI think that's right. I have a feeling it will work out. I think that they're\njust playing games again.\nK:\nI'm certain it will work out. And that's why the President thought he\nwould rather take a tougher than a softer line.\nR:\nThat's right. Well, I think that's fine as long as we understand -- Keep\nin mind that the Conference has gone pretty well so far.\nK:\nK:\nRight.\nR:\nBut there is a little unhappiness, particularly among the Canadians.\nApparently the Canadian Red Cross were refused to serve anyone and\nthey are on their way home.\nK:\nHumph.\nR:\nBecause they got sort of pushed around. Particularly by the other side.\nK:\nWell, when you get through with this job, you can run a boys school for\nunruly children.\nR:\nThat's right. (laughter) It's no problem. I'll keep it in good shape.\nK:\nOkay.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecy Rogers/Mr. Kissinger\n- 3 -\n10:55 m., February 27, 1973\nR:\nOh, incidentally, on Bob McCloskey's statement, this statement really\nif you saw the whole thing, was not bad. He was just trying to stay out\nK:\nNow, look, McCloskey is outstanding and I've said this to the President.\nBut the trouble is they just showed --\nR:\n0.00\nefforts to observe the ceasefire andx in all its aspects in Vietnam\nit simply cannot be questioned. He said we're sorry to have heard the\nremarks this morning. The record of violations is not entirely one-sided\naffair between the forces on the ground and they do not involve U.S. forces\nin any manner.\nK:\nYeah, but you see, on the one morning news show they just showed that\none sentence - -- the record is not one-sided.\nR:\nUh-huh.\nK:\nAnd that sort of made of look as if 90% of it was on our side of it.\nR:\nYeah. It's awfully tough for him though because we're trying to keep the\ndamn thing out of the -- Nobody wants to argue about violations over here\nin the Conference.\nK:\nYeah.\nR:\nAnd all the speakers say this is no place to decide that. That's for the\nICCS to decide. So what we're trying to do is not have this a forum for\nthat decision. And I think he was just trying to follow that line. He doesn't\nwant to try to create a big contrast. We can do that if that's what the\nPresident wants, there's no problem there. We can make a hell of a fight\nover here.\nK:\nNo, the major thing we want to do is hit the prisoner issue publicly.\nR:\nYeah. I think that's right.\nK:\nThat's the major concern.\nR:\nOkay, Henry, fine. Thank you very much.\nK:\nRight. Bye.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSecy Shultz/Mr. Kissinger\n11:18 m., February 27, 1973\nK:\nGeorge, how are you?\nS:\nPretty good. How are you?\nK:\nOkay.\nS:\nI'm trying to develop an itinerary for this trip, including the Russian part\nof it.\nK:\nRight. Incidentally, I meant to call you -- If you could delay it one week\nuntil after the French election, I think it would help.\nS:\nWell, under the current itinerary the way it's set up is to go to Rome to\nsee the Italians and then go to Moscow.\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nAnd then come back and go to the Common Market and then to London and\nthen hit Paris last, which would be around the 20th.\nK:\nOkay. Well, that's fine. [Hold on a second - - talking to someone in\nhis office] Hello.\nS:\nYeah. Now, we have a toast in the Treasury called \"Under Secretary\"\nK:\nYeah.\nS:\nAnd it is kind of an Under Secretaryship without portfolio.\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nAnd it is a person in this job that we would think of as carrying the\nlaboring oar on a lot of the international things that we're getting into.\nI don't mean the monetary talks because Volcker does that but in our\ndealings with the Soviet Union on the policy level and so on.\nK:\nYeah, I understand.\nS:\nAnd I have been racking my brains for somebody who is experienced and\ngood and I come back in my mind quite frequently I find to your man,\nHal Sonnenfeldt.\nK:\nOh.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecy Shultz/Mr. Kissinger\n- 2 -\n11:18 a.m., February 27, 1973\nS:\nSo I'm calling to test you out on that whether you think --\nK:\nI'll be delighted to let you have him.\nS:\nWell, how do you think that would be?\nK:\nI think he'd be excellent if you're willing to take some temper tandems.\nS:\nWell, would he be a good man to negotiate with the Russians?\nK:\nYes, if you discipline him. You know, he is substantively superb. He\nhas some personality problems, most of which will be solved by giving\nhim the title of Under Secretary.\nS:\nHe is a Foreign Service Officer in his background, isn't he?\nK:\nYeah.\nS:\nThere are a number of advantages that I think of in addition to his\ninnate intelligence.\nK:\nHe would work closely with me --\nS:\nFirst of all, you know him.\nK:\nHe knows my strategy.\nS:\nHe knows your strategy. It would be easy to stay in very close tune by\nhim. Second, he understands the dimension of the world that passes me\nby. That is, he understands, as I get it, the politics of Europe; he knows\na lot about the Soviet Union.\nK:\nThat!s right.\nS:\nAnd so on. So that rather than getting somebody in here who I know and\nwho knows all the things I know and nothing more, that doesn't help any.\nSonnenfeldt would bring an area of knowledge that would contribute very\ngreatly.\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nHe would be a very odd appointment for the Treasury because he doesn't\nhave any economics or finance experience and people would say my God,\nwhy the Treasury? And so it would be put down as a statement of the\nexpanded breadth of interest of the Treasury. That is sort of given by\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecy Shultz/Mr. Kissinger\n- 3 -\n11:18 a.m., February 27, 1973\nS:\n(cont'd) the fact that the President's decision that we should handle\nthis Russian thing and our interests have expanded. But anyway, that\nwould be a martyr of that and there would be some struggle about that\nin the confirmation hearings --\nK:\nGeorge, I must run off to an appointment unfortunately for which I'm\nalready 10 minutes late. Could I - -\nS:\nDo you think well of this idea?\nK:\nVery well and it's extremely imaginative. If I could ask for a favor -- If\nyou go ahead with this, could you let me tell him that you're going to\napproach him so that I get a little credit for --\nS:\nOh, I wouldn't think of doing it any other way because I think that would,\namong other things, enhance our chances.\nK:\nRight. And would also help the cooperation afterwards.\nS:\nYeah. But you think this is a good idea?\nK:\nI really think it's a good idea.\nS:\nAnd you might drop that into the President at some point.\nK:\nGood.\nS:\nIf we decide to go ahead.\nK:\nGood. Now, wait a minute, one other thing, would you do a good sales\njob on Cooper?\nS:\nYes, I will. I'll get him in here pretty soon -- sometime today.\nK:\nWhat I would like him to do really is to do the whole -- I'd make him\nDeputy to me handling all big matters that concern you. He'd be the liaison\nfor you and Sonnenfeldt, if you take him. And he'd have that, foreign aid,\nand all those matters in which now I don't get the adequate political input.\nVietnam reconstruction. I mean, he wouldn't run it -- you would run it\nbut the backstopping.\nS:\nUm-humm. Okay, I will talk to him very strongly.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecy Shultz/Mr. Kissinger\n- 4 -\n11:18 a.m., February 27, 1973\nK:\nI'd like to see you very soon. Could we have breakfast, say on Thursday?\nOr Friday?\nS:\nThursday is okay.\nK:\nOkay, Thursday.\nS:\n8:15.\nK:\nGood. Where?\nS:\nYou want to come over here?\nK:\nI'll get better food there.\nS:\nAll right.\nK:\nGood. See you then.\nS:\nRight.\nK:\nBye.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPresident/Kissinger\n2:35 p.m. - 2/27/73\nK:\nMr. President.\nP:\nHave you heard anything on our stuff yet?\nK:\nOh, it's playing very well in the press.\nP:\nYeh, I talked to Ron.\nK:\nBut they were going to deliver a message here at 2 o'clock.\nP:\nFrom Paris?\nK:\nFrom Paris.\nP:\nYeh, but as far as the press thing is concerned we are just as well\nto get our position out there at the moment and I think that it doesn't\nbother me about Rogers' position because we're not going to meet\ntomorrow anyway and he ought to spend the day raising hell about\nthis.\nK:\nAbsolutely and he'll realize when he thinks about it for five minutes\nthat he's going to get better publicity out of this than by being a great\nconciliator.\nP:\nSure. Sure.\nK:\nAnd he'll get the credit for having solved the problem because no one\nwill know the tough private message you sent.\nP:\nThat's right. That's right. Incidentally, I think you ought to get a\nvery strong message to Bunker for Thieu to the effect that between\nnow and the time the prisoners go out that he must recognize - and\nhis visit of course here - that his aid is very, very much at jeopardy\nif he does anything. You know?\nK:\nWhy is that?\nP:\nBecause as I anticipated and you know I predicted, Ron said that three-\nfourths of the questions were trying to put the blame on Thieu.\nK:\nRight. Right.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nP:\nNow if they ever get him hung on that, you know, something happens -\nthat's the whole point - he's going to have to bend over backwards,\nHenry, between now and I'm referring to when we get out. Then he\ncan sic the hell out of them. I don't care what he does.\nK:\nI'll get that message off this afternoon.\nP:\nHe's got to realize that his aid program - don't you agree - do you\nsee my point. He's going to catch holy hell here. The press always\nwants to jump on him; they don't want to jump on the North. For\nChrist's sake, they're the ones who broke the ceasefire more than\nthe South. We know that. But Thieu is the one who will be made\nthe whipping boy. Will you see that off, please?\nK:\nI will get that off within the next 10 minutes.\nP:\nOK.\nK:\nRight, Mr. President.\nP:\nCall me when you get it together.\nK:\nRight.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\nProf. Graubard/Mr. Kissinger\n3:10 pm, Feb. 27, 1973\nK:\nHello.\nG:\nHi, Henry.\nK:\nHello Steve.\nG:q\nHow are you?\nK:\nOkay.\nG:\nGood. Henry, I have my pages and I would love to see if I could\nget them to you, and I wonder if you think there is any chance-\nthey are pushing me in an unbelievable way here, I have to get\nthem back to them in 48 hours. I've explained that I--\nK:\nYou know\nG:\nThere are other things on you mind.\nK:\nThat's right.\nG:\nHenry, what I'm really curious about is would there be some\nchance that you might look at them at all if I got them to you.\nK:\nOh, I might leaf through them.\nG:\nI see. Would there be any chance of our breakfasting together, or\nsomething. Tell me what is possible.\nK:\nWell, towards the end of the week maybe.\nme\nG:\nOkay. What they want you to do, let me /0/10 just tell you, is to\ngive them back the thing on Thursday night before I leave New York.\nBut they then say if something drastically happened over the weekend\nI could still get in touch with them, if I got them to you on Thursday\nor so, or Friday, or whenever you say, you think you would have\na chance sometime over the weekend to leaf through them.\nK:\nI'll do my damndest.\nG:\nOkay. Does this seem possible, you know I'm\nK:\nI'll do my best Steve.\nG:\nRight, and I'm not imposing - what shall I do, shall I call you\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nagain and see if I can\nK:\nWell, send them to me, the worse you'll lose is the postage.\nG:\nI'll send them to you today.\nK:\nRight, I'll read in it over the weekend.\nG:\nGood, wonderful. Okay.\nK:\nWhat does Nancy have, are those galleys or--\nG:\nThose are galleys, they are much improved, but I think she's\nquite --\nK:\nShe likes it and I leafed through it and it seems very good to me.\nG:\nI've had very good comments, Henry, and I'm very pleased. I\nwill send these to you--is there a courier or anything that goes\ndown from New York to you.\nK:\nI don't know whether the U.N. has something.\nG:\nWho would know that, and I wouldn't have to keep you on the phone.\nK:\nI don't know, my secretary maybe.\nG:\nI see, well otherwise--\nK:\nCall the U.N. Mission, call Scali's office.\nG:\nScali!\nK;\nThat's the Ambassador, the biggest jerk in the wor ld.\nG:\nAnd I can leave your name.\nK:\nYeah, tell them you want to send something to me.\nG:\nAnd this is Ambassador Scali.\nK:\nRight. I wouldn't call him, just call his secretary.\nG:\nHis secretary, exactly.\nK:\nOkay, Steve, I really must go.\nG:\nOkay and I will call you later in the week.\nK:\nRight, bye.\nG: Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Cromer/Kissinger\n3:15 p.m. - 2/27/73\nK:\nHello.\nC:\nOh, Henry, I'm sorry to worry you so soon. There was one point\nI forgot and that is this: There is a NATO Council meeting tomorrow\nand unless your people get some slightly different instructions than\nthey seem to be operating on at the moment, they will definitely try\nand sell the (pass) tomorrow which for the reasons that we discussed\nwe think rather premature.\nK:\nOK, let me tell Rush to put a week inbetween.\nC:\nI think that would be very wise.\nK:\nGood, I'll get to him immediately.\nC:\nAll right, fine.\nK:\nThank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDr. Kissinger - Bob Toth\nFebruary 27, 1973; 3:35 p.m.\nT:\nAre you gonna go with me, or not?\nK:\nGo with you where?\nT:\nTo the White House correspondents dinner.\nK:\nOh, GD, let me answer by the end of this week.\nT:\n(Laughs)\nK:\nI haven't focused on it.\nT:\nUh huh. Uh, now, I was gonna ask A1 if you couldn't make\nit.\nK:\nUh, huh.\nT:\nAl Haig. But, um, I had a question about the North Vietnam-\nese position on the prisoners. Is this a serious thing or is it\nsort of a first of a series of minor crisis on this.\nK:\nAt this point I think it's the first of a series of minor crisis.\nT:\nUh huh.\nK:\nI just can't believe it.\nT:\nUh huh.\nthick over,\nK:\nAt least that they would / you know, the whole Agreement or\nan essential element of the Agreement at this stage.\nT:\nUn huh. Well, um, and the fact that it didn't come from, um,\nHanoi itself really it just came from this piddling colonel down\nthe line, it sounds like they're just testing something out.\nK:\nThat's what I think but you know by tomorrow we may know\ndifferently.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nT:\nAh, you mean from Paris?\nK:\nYou know, no, they may make a radio broadcast by tomorrow.\nT:\nUh huh. Have we stopped withdrawals?\nK:\nNo, but you know I don't know what's gonna happen if this\ncontinues.\nT:\nWell, I mean, obviously it's being taken quite seriously. Ah,\nI was just wondering whether or not, you know my first reaction\nwas why the President should choose to respond in such sharp\nturns to something/ that colonel for the North Vietnamese Army\nsaid in Saigon.\nK:\nCause we don't want to let it get out of hand.\nT:\nUh huh. Uh huh. Well, ok. I guess it's a pretty straight-\nforward story other than that.\nK:\nIt's a straightforward story. There's no hidden significance.\nT:\nHenry, ah, one of the things I asked Julie about was coming by\nand talking to you, you know, for about 15-20 minutes about the\nMideast one day when you get a chance.\nK:\nAll right, but not this week.\nT:\nNo.\nK:\nOk.\nT:\nNo, after she goes.\nK:\nLet's do that.\nT:\nOk. Good. Thank you.\nK:\nBye.\nT:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDr. Kissinger - Valeriani\nFebruary 27, 1973; 5:35 p.m.\nK:\nHello?\nV:\nHello. I'm confused because your secretary always calls you\nMr. Kissinger.\nK:\nBecause I know how Ph D's are acquired so I can't take them\nseriously.\nsenior\nV:\nI was told that\n/\nAdministration officials are confident that\nthe next group of prisoners will be released promptly.\nK: Well, why don't you ask the senior officials. I'm only at the Under-\nsecretary level.\nV:\nIs that accurate?\nK:\nHuh?\nV:\nIs that accurate?\nK:\nThat's a question of judgment.\nV:\nWell, now what do you think?\nK:\nUh, I think there's a better than 50-50 chance.\nV:\nUh huh. Do you figure they're ground-standing?\nK:\nI think that's a little test of manhood.\nV:\nUh huh. Are your views directed at us or at the South Vietnam-\nese?\nK:\nProbably at both.\nV:\nAt both.\nK:\nBut we can't admit the composition that they can do that; I mean\nthat they can hold us responsible for the South Vietnamese actions.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nV:\nWell, then the statement was pretty clear cut in that regard.\nK:\nRight.\nV:\nOk. That's what I wanted to check.\nK:\nGood.\nV:\nThank you very much.\nK:\nBye.\nV:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger - Sec. Richardson\nFebruary 27, 1973; 5:40 p.m.\nK:\nHello?\nR:\nHi, Henry.\nK:\nHello, Elliot.\nR:\nThanks for calling back. Ah, I had two things. One is that\nyou call at our last breakfast to discuss the NSSMs and the\nstudies that, uh. (Interrupted)\nK:\nIncidentally, when are we having breakfast, now?\nR:\nI don't know. We were trying, I think, to set it up on Thursday.\nI hadn't heard whether we can do it or not. I hope we can.\nK:\nRight. Good.\nR:\nAnyway, what they handed you this morning and I'm now\nsending over by messanger the memorandum we've developed\noutlining the studies that we propose to undertake here. It\nreflects the ongoing work that has been underway already and\nidentifies the additional things we think we ought to do and I\nhope will also digest areas that you will find of interest and\nthat will contribute in turn at least as building blocks to follow-\non studies by /NSC the process itself.\nK:\nGood. Well, let us discuss how your individual studies can be\nrelated to the inter-agency process.\nR:\nI think that would be very useful.\nK:\nGood.\nR:\nWe have tried to develop this outline in a way that does have\nin view what we believe to be the border kinds of strategic\nissues that we would expect to be of\n(trails off)\nK:\nWell, that's very helpful.\nR:\nIt's not, you know, one always wishes this kind of thing is\nbetter done but I did want to have it ready for your when you\ngot back rather than call you up and say we have another week or so,\nyou know.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK:\nWell, you're a man of your word.\nR:\nSo, maybe we could talk about that when we do get together.\nK:\nGood.\nR:\nThe other thing I wanted to say is that the thing about this GVN\nproposition about taking out the SAM sites.\nK:\nYeah.\nR:\nTo me, that's, that does not sound like a good idea. They're\nsitting, why not make it a major subject of protest within the\nformal processes of the Four Party Joint Military Commission\nof the ICCS and so on, at least in the first instance.\nK:\nI agree with you.\nR:\nOk. Well, I won't labor the point.\nK:\nNo, I agree and let's do that.\nR:\nOk. Well, we'll get that word back to Vogt then.\nK:\nGood.\nR:\nAnd ask him to, and it may be that, ah (interrupted)\nK:\nCan you trigger from where you are Woodward to make this\na formal complaint?\nR:\nI would think, yes. And we can certainly as far as Woodward\nis concerned. It may be that it ought also go around by some\nother route to Bunker.\nK:\nAll right. I'll (interrupted)\nR:\nBecause as I understand it's a GVN proposal to use GVN air.\nThen we've got to tell them we think that's a lousy idea that\nthey can be more effective putting the other side on the defensive.\nIt's not as if these were weapons that could affect the defensive\nweapons in any event.\nK:\nYeah. I agree.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- -3-\nR:\nAnd if worse comes to worse, they'll be there. Ok.\nK:\nOk.\nR:\nThanks.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDr. Kissinger - Ozzie Johnson\nFebruary 27, 1973; 5:50 p.m.\nK:\nHello?\nJ:\nHello?\nK:\nHow are you?\n)\nJ:\nJohnson. Thank you for calling back. I was fascinated by\nthe reports that I've not seen-made much of of Joe remarks\nSunday night in Peking to the effect that the representatives\nwould be at the Ambassadorial level and implications seemed\nto be that these would be notably ranking people. Is that\naccurate? And do you want to draw conclusions from it?\nK:\nWe haven't made a final decision yet.\nJ:\nUh huh. One reason it fascinated me was to place it beside\nwhat the President is supposed to have said in the Rose Garden\nthe other day to the effect that the Mardi Gras girls could expect\nyou to show them around Peking anytime they wanted.\nK:\nNo, no, no.\nJ:\nWhat was the setting on that?\nK:\nThat's wishful thinking of the State Department. I will not be\nhead of the mission. Don't speculate on that.\nJ:\nOk. I wanted to be steered straight.\nK:\nLook, on this you can, really, this is not gonna happen.\nI'm not meant for that sort of a post, as much as I love China.\nJ:\nUh huh. We could forget it instead.\nK:\nYeah, I don't know what he meant.\nJ:\nYou were there, though.\nK:\nI was there.\nJ:\nThen that is more or less then what he said.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK:\nFrankly, I don't remember his saying that.\nJ:\nUh huh.\nK:\nI thought he said I just got back from Peking but you know\nI wasn't, I didn't think it was a historic moment so I was\nmore interested in trying to figure out how I could get their\nphone numbers. No, I don't know what he said but it has no\nsignificance.\nJ:\nIt would be easier if I'd lay those things to rest.\nK:\nBelieve, me, you'd really be way, way off the beam if you\ndid that.\nJ:\nHow we hear such things.\nK:\nNo, this is not.. We haven't really made the decision yet.\nJ:\nAnd the decision hasn't been made so you are in a sense\nspeculating..\nK:\nNo, we are exchanging messages on the subject but we haven't\nreally focused on it yet. I mean we've focused on it, but we\nhaven't made a decision yet. Ok.\nJ:\nFine. Thank you very much.\nK:\nOk.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDr. Kissinger - Joe Alsop\nFebruary 27, 1973; 5:53 p.m.\nK:\nHello?\nA:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nHello, Joe. How are you?\nA:\nNow is this news as bad as it looks?\nK:\nOn the prisoners?\nA:\nYeah.\nK:\nOh, no. We're gonna, that's just a little test of manhood.\nA:\nOh, Oh.\nK:\nAs soon as we get our Secretary of State back here where\nwe can calm him and relax him, it will all be all right.\nA:\nWhere is he now?\nK:\nHe's in Paris.\nA:\nOh, yeah. When's he coming back?\nK:\nOn Friday or Saturday.\nA:\nPeople will be getting in an awful peaking about it, Henry. I\nwonder if we could meet tomorrow morning.\nK:\nImpossible, Joe. I'm just about 6 weeks behind in my work.\nA:\nYou are.\nK:\nBut, I would not make that a major column; just by the time\nyou have it written it may be out of the way. If it's not\nresolved by Friday, then we've got ourselves a problem.\nBut from all the other messages that are going back and forth\nbetween us and Hanoi - it does not look to me as if this is a\nshowdown.\nA:\nWhen will it come, do you think?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK:\nThe showdown?\nA:\nUh hum.\nK:\nOh, maybe this time next year, maybe this summer, but\nnot now.\nA:\nOk, Sir.\nK:\nThey're much more plantive in their private communications\nto us.\nA:\nOh, they are.\nK:\nThey're not putting it to us yet.\n(Herbolos)\nA:\nHenry, did you decide you'd like to come to see the\n/\n? and\nfamily for supper or not?\nK:\nCan I let you know tomorrow morning?\nA:\nIt doesn't matter, then, call me at the last minute. This is the plan.\nK:\nI would love to come-it's just a question of, we have to prepare for\nMrs. Meir and other things and I'll know it better in the morning.\nA:\nWhen is Nancy coming down?\nK:\nI guess Saturday only.\nA:\nCould she stay so she could have supper with us Sunday?\nK:\nI can ask her but probably not. I think she's quite determined\nto get back.\nA:\nLet me ask her. I'll call her.\nK:\n[Laughs ]\nA:\nI've had some success in those quarters. Good.\nK:\nBye.\nA:\nGoodbye\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSec. Rush/Kissinger\n6:25 p.m. - 2/28/73\nK:\nHello.\nR:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nKen, how are you?\nR:\nI'm fine, thanks. How are you?\nK:\nYou got our foreign policy in a total turmoil, I'm told.\nR:\nAnd my hearty congratulations for all that you did, Henry.\nK:\nThank you.\nR:\nReally terrific.\nK:\nAre we going to meet this week sometime?\nR:\nI would love to. Should we have breakfast Thursday morning?\nK:\nNo, you refused breakfast Thursday morning.\nR:\nOh no I didn't.\nK: |\nI was told you had.\nR:\nOh, for heaven's sake, who told you that?\nK:\nI was already starting a feud with the State Department again. You're\nqualified as long as you'reActing Secretary.\nR:\nSomething Henry has gone very wrong.\nK:\nHow about lunch on Friday?\nR:\nI'd be glad to do that.\nK:\nLet's have lunch on Friday.\nR:\nI'd like it very much.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nKen, I have had - it's too complex - a wailing complaint from the\nBritish that we are steamrollering them too much on that MBFR.\nAnd they request whether we couldn't hold off through one NATO\nsession tomorrow.\nR:\nAll right.\nK:\nAnd since Dobrynin is coming back, I'm wondering whether we\ncouldn't sell it to him twice.\nR:\nWell, we might.\nK:\nI mean do you think we could ask whoever - I mean to keep it\nmoving in that direction without steamrollering it tomorrow and\nit might then give us a claim on the British for the next meeting.\nR:\nThe British were the ones. I'm not in the office, I'm at a meeting\nI had to go to outside the building.\nK:\nYeh, I understand. I know where you are, Ken. You're at the\nSenate.\nR:\nI'm at the Rayburn Office Building. Right you are. Your assistant\nis\nas always.\nK:\nNone of this consorting with the enemy.\nR:\n(Laughs) We have to keep the enemy smiling.\nK:\nI agree with you.\nR:\nBut Henry, we were going to have - to call on the British in London\ntomorrow. I've done really all I felt I should do with Cromer over\nhere.\nK:\nWell, no, everyone agrees you've done really a superb job on it.\nI'm just wondering whether tactically before Dobrynin is back we\nshould use all our muscle whether we couldn't do it again as a sign\nof good will after he's back.\nR:\nI think that's a good idea.\nK:\nSo will you call off the dogs for tomorrow.\nR:\nI will call the dogs off for tomorrow. K: Good, thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nR:\nHenry, while I have you on the telephone, we're sending a letter\nover to the President with regard to this vote in ICAO tomorrow.\nDo you know about that?\nK:\nYeh, what's your recommendation?\nR:\nWell the recommendation is unequivocally that we first, we'll\ntry to change the \"condemned\".\nK:\nRight.\nR:\nWe won't be able to do it. The British have tried, I've talked to\nScali; he's been working very hard on it. We will not be able to\ndo it.\nK:\nRight.\nR:\nScali says that our support for the 25% maximum will be seriously\nundermined if we vote against it. We isolate ourselves. The feeling\nis we might touch off something very drastic in Libya who might\nwant to shoot down an American plane.\nK:\nSo you're in favor of accepting it?\nR:\nI'm in favor of making a very strong attempt to knock out the\n\"condemned\" and then when we vote for it, we will vote for it\nwith strong disapproval as we will make clear ahead of time of\nprejudging this thing in advance and of the \"condemned.\"\nK:\nGood, I agree.\nR:\nOK. Well, then we'll go ahead on it.\nK:\nYou go ahead on that. Good.\nR:\nOK. Thanks, Henry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSen. Javits/Mr. Kissinger\n6:40 pm, Feb. 27, 1973\nK:\nHello.\nJ:\nHenry!\nK:\nJack how are you?\nJ:\nWelcome home.\nK:\nThank you.\nJ:\nWith pockets full of POWs.\nK:\nI wouldn't worry about it.\nJ:\nWell, I thinkyou did absolutely great, we're all so proud of you.\nK::\nAren't you ;nice. Well you were a great friend i;n the difficult\nperiod and I won't forget that.\nJ:\nWell, I'm glad. Henry I called for a personal reason because I'm\ngoing to see Nelson on Thursday. There's an awful lot of pressure\non ;me to run for Mayor of New York, and it's precisely that you\nare so far away from that scene, but know me well in my place\ndown here, that I thought perhaps either now or if you turned it\nover in hour mind you might have some helpful word for me, or\nif you've got the time, I'll come and talk to you about it.\nK:\nWell let me, you know, that's an important decision, let me not\ndo it lightly. Can I call you tomorrow and see whether we can\nhave a drink at the end of the day of something like that.\nJ:\nThat would be great. I'll tell you why I say what I do, as I say I'll\nbe seeing him, there are many considerations involved, both personal\nand also processional, but there's one thing that while you are thinking\nabout it let me put in your mind. Ehrlichman was here about a week\nor ten days ago and he came up to talk about how things were going\nhere, etc., kinda getting himself oriented. He mentioned something\nabout this to me and I said well it's the kind of thing which I'm not\nentertaining seriously but if I should, I would want to see the President\nabout it. He said why. And I said to me the answer to New York is\nto reverse the course by which Mayors of New York have beaten the\nPresident and Governor over the head. But rather to reverse that\nand find out whether the President's interested in making New York\nthe big jewel of the United States or the world because it is the most\ndynamic and the most busy city, I suppose, on earth.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK:\nRight.\nJ:\nAnd he said that's a very interesting, idea any time you say. Well,\nI'm not saying because if I walk in with such a mission then I'm hooked.\nYou follow me.\nK:\nOf course.\nJ:\nBut I did want to tell you that so that you might have it in back of\nyour head as to their feeling about it, see.\nK:\nRight.\nJ:\nThat's all, I just--\nK:\nLet me feel it out around here what the attitude, you know, what\nthey really think.\nJ:\nRight.\nK:\nGood, and I'm more sympathetic to the thought than I would have been\nsay, eight years ago.\nJ:\nWell, it's interesting, you know, I've had th;is opportunity twice\nI had it in 165 when Lindsay ran and I had it in '61 when I actually\nturned it down, a thing which I'll tell you - they tried to push me\ninto it and I said flatly no.\nK:\nKes. But I'd like to make it a responsible reaction, so I'll call\nyou tomorrow.\nJ:\nYes, wonderful. Thank you Henry.\nK:\nRight, bye.\nJ:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n6:55 pm/February 27, 1973\nK:\nMr. President\nP:\nHi Henry. I wanted to see if there's any development on that\nPOW thing. Give me a call if--\nK:\nAbsolutely.\nP:\nBecause I have to do that press thing tomorrow, I have to start\nto work on it again, you see.\nK:\nThe way the timing runs now--\nP:\nYou see this is now--well, it's daylight out there now, it's just\nbeginning.\nK:\nYes that's right. Well we have a press statement here, one of them\nsaid, one of the NVN said they have not suspended the prisoner\nrelease--\nP:\nThis is after the hoopla?\nK:\nYeah. They said they have not suspended it, all they have done\nis call our attention to the need to implement all the provisions.\nP:\nUh huh.\nK:\nAt the same time they haven't given us any prisoners, so--but they've\nstayed away from saying--\nP:\nWell, this statement though I would say is they haven't crossed the\nRubicon.\nK:\nExactly.\nP:\nAnd that probably was made, having the knowledge of what we've said.\nK:\nRight.\nP:\nThat statement was probably made after--\nK:\nI was certainly made after our press statement.\nP:\nRight, whether they've had our private statement--\nK:\nOur private statement, I doubt that they had had it at that time.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nP:\nNo, because of the --\nK:\nBut I think-\nP:\nThat ought to shake them even more.\nK:\nI think they are not going to shake us down on this. Or try to face\nus, because they know-\nP:\nIt's not the right time.\nK:\nThe internation conference going on, the Chinese and Russians\naren't going to jeopardize their relations with us. No one else\nis going to back them at that conference, and not only this, they\nknow if you stated clobbering them again, you'd have the American\npeople with you on this. If this were the issue.\nP:\nRight, you see we've always realized as I in December, you know,\nif we could have made the POW the issue I could have gone on\ntelevision, but we couldn't. It's partly the issue. But right now\nif it's on the POWs and I say I'll bomb them, we are going to bomb\nthem until we get the POWs, by God the people would back you all\nathe way.\nK:\nAnd if you played all the strings and said after the stories that the\nreturning prisoners told you about conditions in prison camps, you\nwill not permit them to stay there one extra day, that you will\n-but I don't think it's going to come anywhere close to that.\nP:\nI agree. But these things must be going through their minds.\nK:\nExactly.\nP:\nThey were certainly going through the mind of somebody as clever\nas Gromyko, and people like that. Chou En-lai would understand that.\nK:q\nThat's right.\nP:\nIn fact.\nK:\nWe may even consider getting the Russians involved on our private\nchannel, if it keeps going through tomorrow. I don't know if Rogers\nwill do it toughly enough.\nP:\nMy view tomorrow is that if it doesn't bseak, I will not go on the press\nthing.\nK:\nI agree.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- -3-\nP:\nBecause it can only be just a general bunch of crap, about this and\nthat and throwing it up.\nK:\nBut if it were to break, it would be a good time to go.\nP:\nThen if it breaks, I'll just go out and take other questions.\nK:\nThat's right.\nP:\nBut if it doesn't break then wells face this one down and go through\nwith the Meir dinner on Thursday, and by Friday it ought to break\n--by Friday it either breaks or we are going to have to go to a very\nvery tough alternative.\nK:\nExactly, by Friday it hasn't broken, you'd have to do something\npretty drastic.\nP:\nWell, ; it wouldn't be apress conference then, I think we'll just\ngive it to them, don't you agree.\nK:\nWell I would certainly not--\nP:\nI mean an ultimatum basically.\nK:\nI don't see how you could let Rogers sign a final act in Paris under\nthose conditions.\nP:\nNever.\nK:\nBut it won't get to that point because--\nP:\nEither this or that, there can be no God damned signing without the\nPOW thing.\nK:\nMr. President, we will swing along as he always has and bk the end\nof the day tomorrow he'll realize that you've made him a strong man.\nP:\nYeah, I saw in the paper tonight that he was threatening to leave.\nK:\nKicking and screaming. We made him do it kicking and screaming.\nP:\nI know but the it's the best thing ke ever did.\nK:\nOf course, Mr. President, and he will gain in respect.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- -4-\nP:\nPeople will say, gee he's fighting for the POWs.\nK:\nOf course.\nP:\nAnd congratulations.\nK:\nOf course.\nP:\nWell, call me at any time of the night, okay.\nK:\nRight, Mr. President.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nBill Sullivan/Mr. Kissinger\n10:30 p.m., February 27, 1973\nK:\nyou demand clarification but not at that level.\nS:\nI see.\nK:\nSecondly, we shouldn't do anything high profile on what he does because\nwe got a message coming about 2 o'clock our time.\nS:\nI see.\nK:\nAnd we better know what that says before we start running off to\nmeetings.\nS:\nYeah, all right.\nK:\nBut let McCloskey confine himself to the prisoner issue.\nS:\nTo the POW issue?\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nNot to the violations?\nK:\nDon't you think that would escalate it too much?\nS:\nHe's getting hit on both counts and he's having to appear rather mushy.\nK:\nWell, then let him hit on both.\nS:\nAll right.\nand we have had another crisis since the last time I\ntalked to you. The whole drafting committee has reached a standstill\nbecause the North Vietnamese and the Communists have raised the issue of\nthrowing out the representative of the Secretary General who is sitting\nin the Committee but not participating as a member but he's just participating\nmore or less as an observer. I've told my people to hang tough on it and\nif necessary, let the Committee's work come to a stall while we perserve\nthe position for the Secretary General.\nK:\nThat's okay.\nS:\nIt's a bit of a stupidity because we got the guy in this morning and he was\nthere all morning perfectly all right but then he was stupid enough to insist\nthat he have an eating place put in front of him and that's what precipitated\nit.\n(laughter)\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nBill Sullivan/Mr. Kissinger\n- 2 -\n10:30 p.m., February 27, 1973\nK:\nDo they hire people with IQs of more than 100?\nS:\n(laughter) They're all Austrians. (laughter) Well, we'll do this one.\nI will hold off on any request for an appointment until we hear about your\nmessage at our meeting tomorrow morning if necessary. But we'll let\nMcCloskey go at 6:00 on both issues.\nK:\nExactly. Okay, good.\nS:\nAll right.\nK:\nThank you. Bye.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Sec. Rogers\n11:54\na.m.\n2/28/73\nSR: I think we can talk on this line- other one is\nHK: Oh no, the other one is impossible.\nSR: I have a statement here that I'll explain to you--I'll read it to you\nissomething you might release here or you might release there,\ndepending on what the President wants to do.\nHK: Right.\nSR: In a private meeting--first let me say we had two meetings--o with all\nfour of us that lasted a couple of hours and that was just the usual stuff,\nand afterwards Trinh and I went into another room--just the two of us\nand he assured me that they would carry out the release of all our POW's\nwithin our 60 day period -there was no doubt about that, secondly, that\nthey had no interest in causing unnecessary trouble and first they\npromise that the government's position is the same on the POW's release\n--secondly, that he would XXXXXXXXX on four separate occasions--and that\nas far as the next stage of the release is concerned he would have the\nmatter taken up at once in the JMC in order to work out the arrangements.\nI think that's what they have in mind think they are doing it for two reaso n\none because the PRG and two because concern that was expressed to me\nabout mine sweeping- think in any event they will move in the next day or\ntwo and I think the only reason they didn't do it this morning was because\nhe felt it would have been under pressure--can you hear me all right?\nHK: Yeh.\nSR: Yeh. I have a statement here as I say--is a possibility, we are under\na lot of pressure to say something because everyone else has said something\n\"-in a private meeting between Secretary of State Rogers and Foreign\nMinister Trinh which followed the meeting--well, \"In a private meeting\nwith Secretary State Rogers and Foreign Minister Trinh, the Foreign\nMinister stated that his government intended to fully carry out the\nprovisions of the Paris Agreement dealing with POW's. In this connection\nhe gave the assurance that his government and all POW's held by his\ngovernment would be released within the60-day period set forth in the\nagreement. With regard to the next phase of release of the POW's\nForeign Minister Trinh said that the matter would be discussed at once\nand the JCM in order to work out the arrangements. Now the last\nsentence is something that the President should decide on \"In the light\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nof this, the President has asked Secretary Rogers to continue with\nother business of the conference as scheduled.\nHK: How do you interpret that statement Bill will they release it 60 days\nisn't good enough because of the 15 at the protocols make it obligatory\nthat they do it in 15 day increments\nSR:\nLet me say this - -he committed himself as firmly as you can that the\nagreement- 60 day provision of the agreement would be fully complied with.\nSecondly, he said that they'd do it four third, he gave the impression\nthat they were prepared to discuss the second phase right away. And I\nhave a feeling that what they have in mind is just a delay of another day or\ntwo--I tried to pin them down; I said could we get assurance that you'll\ndo it tomorrow, he said, wellI'll have to let you know on that. Now on the\nother decisions the President made, I wouldn't xxx change those at all\nso really the only question that I have to face is whether we want to extend\nthe conference or not, or whether we ought to try to go ahead tomorrow\nand see how it goes.\nHK: Can I call you back in 10 minutes and check with the President?\nSR: Yeh.\nHK\" I 11 call you right back.\nSR: You understand that as far as the other decisions the President made\nare not affected -I am all for those-\nHK: No, no, I understand that.\nSR: So the only thing we would say is in light of this these assurances,\nthe President has asked Secretary Rogers to proceed with the other\nbusiness of the conference as scheduled. Now if we don't get satisfaction\n--we can delay it *ilx tomorrow afternoon, we don't have to go ahead on\nFriday.\nSIK: Right. Well, I'm pretty sure that but I 11 have to check--he will not\nagree to a signed document until we have assurances on the prisoners.\nSR: Yeh, well we don't have to agree on that. But this sort of puts them on\nthe spot I think in view of this promise-\nHK: Good--let me go right into see him and I'll call you in fifteen minutes.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\nSecretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger\n11:54 am, Feb. 28, 1973\nK:\nHello.\nR:\nHello, Henry. It would be extremely helpful to me if\nhe were to go on this trip with me. Would that be possible.\nK:\nCertainly.\nR:\nWould you want to tell him.\nK:\nLet me call him tomorrow. When are you going.\nR:\nWould leave March 8 and be back March 22.\nK:\nYeah, let me talk to him. Would you promise me that\nposition beforehand. Or indicate that it's likely.\nR:\nI would. The President knows him faily well, I assume.\nK:\nYeah, but you'd better let me talk to the President first,\nbecause he's a little ambivolent.\nR:\nWell that is what--before anything is said to him I would like\nto--but the President's on board and I didn't want to bring\nit up with the President, I think it might well if you did.\nK:\nOkay, good. I'll do that tomorrow.\nR:\nAll right.\nK:\nGood.\nR:\nAnd you'll tell Sonenfeldt about the trip.\nK:\nRight.\nR:\nOk ay, thank you.\nK:\nHave you talked to Cooper.\nR:\nYes, and he seemed to be very þpleased with the discussion\nand said he was hoping to see you today or tomorrow.\nK:\nWere you well impressed with him.\nR:\nI think he's a good guy, yeah. And his only problem he said was\nhis family problem. He knew he was going to have to work veyr\nhard if he takes this job, and has to square that away with his\nwife, and so on.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nRight.\nR:\nSo I said well that's right you will have to work hard and you\nmight as well go into it with your eyes open.\nK:\nThat's right. No, there's no sense having anyone work for\nme on another premise. Okay.\nR:\nVery good. I'll see you tomorrow morning.\nK:\nRight, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\nIrving Lazar/Mr. Kissinger\n12:30 pm, February 28, 1973\nK:\nHello.\nL:\nHello Henry\nat the Douglases and there were a large\ngroup of us waiting to see it, and we tho ught that you handled\nit marvelously, as usual, you always do but there were some\nparticularly sticky things and I think that you cleared up a lot\nof questions which had to be answered in precisely the way yo u\ndid.\nK:\nWell aren¹t you nice.\nL:\nWell you did. You fielded a lot of things about Connally and the\nrest of it that made it clear up a lot of nonsense for that plagues\nyou apparently or should I suppose with all these constant repit-\ntitions that people make in cross references.\nK:\nYeah.\nL:\nAt any rate I wanted to talk to you--\nK:\nIt's a gossipy town.\nL:\nWell we all know that but the point is you cleared up for the rest\nof us for a lot of people who are not really knowledgeable about\ngossip but rather interested in the political aspects of your thinking,\nyou cleared up a lot of nonsense that for the moment won't\nplague you. But I called you really to find out if you're coming\nthrough L/A. at any time soon because we'd love to have a little\ndinner for you.\nK:\nI am almost certain to be in L.A. with the President between, say\nthe 28th of March and the 8th of April.\nL:\nWell, that's marvelous. We'll be back from, in fact permanently\ninsconced in our place in Beverly Hills, and I hope that if you think\nof it that you let us know a week before you are coming out--if you\nwant to set a date now, we'd love to have a dinner for you the first\nfew days in April.\nK:\nWell, it's a little tough for me to set a firm date, we can aim for\nsomething like March 31st or April 1st.\nL:\nAll right. Let's ai/m for March 31st and then I'll call you about\nthe 25th and check you out.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK:\nWould you do that?\nL:\nI'll be happy to do it. We'd love to have a dinner for you and\nhave all your chums, and we've love to see you, too.\nK:\nThat would be marvelous.\nL:\nI'll call you--\nK:\nI still remember your many kindnesses to me and--\nL:\nOh, nothing at all. I really am interested if you liked my friend\nThe Baroness Van Zwelan.\nK:\nVery much.\nL:\nIsn't she a darling lady.\nK:\nShe is a great lady, and very, very attractive.\nL:\nI tell you, she's not only a beautiful girl, but she's a marvelous\nfriend.\nK:\nShe came out to see you afterwards, didn't she.\nL:\nOh, yes, she stayed with us for about a week.\nK:\nI really liked her. She caught me during a really hectic week\nand I came late and left early.\nL:\nWell, she told me that and the reasoning, believe me if you find\nher companionable, I can only tell you she's one of the best chums\nyou'll every have because that's the way she is with a lot of people\nyou know actually and a lot of people you don't know.\nK:\nYes, she's marvelous.\nL:\nAnd her husband, by the way, is an extremely attractive and a\nbrilliant banker and publisher.\nK:\nI didn't meet him.\nL:\nI know you didn't. They were all here for about two weeks.\nK:\nI see. Oh yeah, she's a wild golfer she told me.\nL:\nYes, yes, well they are very old frien ds of mine, I mean I'm a\nGodfather of one of their children and Sam Speigler is a Godfather\nof another one, so -- I know you know Sam quite well.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-3-\nK:\nYes\nL:\nWell listen now, you take care and then you do as well as you've\nbeen doing and it will all come out marvelously. The whole\nbloody thing.\nK:\nKes, I don't want to be under an obligation to keep going at this\npace.\nL:\nI know, but you look wonderful. As a matter of fact I was so pleased,\nwe sent you a wire at your press conference when you came back\nthere.\nK:\nYes, I appreciated it very much.\nL:\nAnd I thought the other they photographed you extremely well\nunlike the candid camera work they do on ordinary press conferences.\nYou look marselous as usual, of course you' re very eloquent\nand you handled all the rather tough questions of Barbara's very\nvery eloquently and very well.\nK:\nGood, well aren't you nice.\nL:\nMarvelous, well it couldn't have been more gleeful. There were\na lot of your friends sitting around and we all enjoyed it enormously.\nK:\nWell, of course, you are all a little prejudiced.\nL:\nWe are, that true, but then again why not.\nK:\nWell, I'll look forward to seeing you.\nL:\nI'll call you, we'll aim for the 31st and then I'll call you about\nthe 25th or so and we'll check it out.\nK:\nExcellent.\nL:\nOkay, Henry.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\n2:45 pm, February 28\nC1973 I\nDavid Frost/Mr. Kissinger\nK:\nHello.\nF:\nHenry.\nK:\nDavid, how are you.\nF:\nVery well, how are you today.\nK:\nOkay.\nF:\nIt looks like a very hectic day.\nK:\nWell, every day is hectic.\nF:\nRight.\nK:\nAnd I'm not yet--are you coming down anyway?\nF:\nWell, there's one other thing I could while I'm there but I\nwouldn't come down unless we are having the pleasure of a get\ntogether, that is all.\nK:\nLet me let you know, can I do it as late as 3:30.\nF:\nOh, God, yes, please do. Please don't feel pressed in any way,\nK:\nI don't feel pressed I just might- - I don't have anything that I must\ndo, it's simply a question that I must get over some material by\ntonight, that is the only question, I want to see if I have a chance\nof finishing it by 8 or 8:30.\nF:\nOf course.\nK:\nLet me call you around 3:30.\nF:\nOh, that would be delicious. If I could juggle tomorrow, would\nlunch tomorrow be any good.\nK:\nNo, lunch tomorrow is impossible. Tonight may well be the best.\nF:\nAll right, well seeing you then would be lovely.\nK:\nGood, I'll call you then.\nF:\nMay the Lord be with you.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\nCarter Brown/Mr. Kissinger\n2:48 pm, Feb. 28, 1973\nK:\nHello.\nB:\nHi, it's Carter Brown.\nK:\nHow are you.\nB:\nMany thanks for getting in touch. I have two quickies for you.\nThe first is that you will be getting an invitation from Paul and\nBunny Melon for dinner at the National Gallery before a preview\nof the Soviets on the 29th of March and we would love to have you\ncircle it on your calendar and also let us know if you'd like to\nbring a date.\nK:\nThank you. If I'm in town I'd be happy to.\nB:\nShould we get in touch with your secretary about the name and\naddress of anyone that you'd like to bring.\nK:\nYes, a little later.\nB:\nA little later, great. Seacondly I have a communication from\nPaul Melon who's out of the country about getting in touch with\nthe Chief Justice. The Chairman of our Board was here at the\nBoard meeting where we approved in principle on an if and when\nbasis about the Chinese show.\nK:\nRight.\nB:\nAnd I hesitate to go through all of this if there really isn't any\nnews because I did have a chat with the President, very briefly,\non Sunday morning at the worship service in which he told me\nthat as far as he knew it would be opening in Washington, but I\ndidn't want to--\nK:\nI have no such information.\nB:\nYou have no such information, okay good.\nK:\nAnd he hasn't either.\nE:\nWell I didn't want to take that as gospel without checking with\nsomebody who is--\nK:\nNo, I think once we get a little further down the road, we ought\nto raise that issue formally.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nB:\nGood. Okay, fine. Because the--we have been in touch with\nthe USF and Len Garment and the State Department over a long\nperiod of time on this and have voluntarily offered not to do\nanything without getting in touch with Chinese unilaterally or\ndirectly because my own view is that this is really in your hands\nand it should be done whichever way the U.S. government thinks1\nis the best solution.\nK:\nWell, why don't you wait until we get a little further down the\nroad.\nB:\nOkay, great. I do have some information from the National\nGallery in Canada who says that they would much prefer having\nthe show after us, because they are committed through March\nand our contacts in Londan say that the delegation in Peking\nhas worked out details now for the show and that they've gotten\na month's extension for both Paris and London, and so it won't\nbe coming through until next January, and some other details\nthat I can work out when it's appropriate. But it might give the\nU.S. an opening wedge to say that wouldn't it be nice to slip it in\nfor Americans before the Canadians, but that's not an--\nK:\nYou want to write me a letter on that so that I have something\nto work from.\nB:\nOkay, great. All righty, well that's really what I have in mind\nand just wanted to let you know that we are here to be as helpful\nas we can.\nK:\nGood, Well I appreciate this and we'll see what can be worked out\non getting )a( the show to Washington and secondly to get it in\nbefore the Canadians.\nB:\nRight.\nK:\nBut I think we may be successful in getting it to Washington but\nit isn't true that it's already been agreed to.\nB:\nGood.\nK:\nIt hasn't even been proposed yet.\nB:\nNo, exactly, but we haven't wanted to suppose our own approaches\nand initiatives with the Chinese, my instinct is that from what I've\nheard about their mentality, they would probably be most happy\nabout having it open in Washington.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-3- -\nK:\nI think it would be natural for them to want to do it, so I don't\nthink it's--I think you can afford to relax.\nB:\nGood. All righty, well - - we'll leave it in your hands and\nI'll write you a letter on the technicalities which may be of\nhelp in your negotiations.\nK:\nGood, thank you.\nB:\nRight, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\n5:00 pm, Feb. 28, 1973\nPhil Geyelin/Mr. Kissinger\nK:\nHello.\nG:\nHenry.\nK:\nPhil, I wish you wouldn¹t get me into -- is this a Washington Post\nplot.\nG:\nHenry, I just want to tell you I'm leaving for Mexico in the morning.\nI wanted to say goodbye.\nK:\nWell--\nG:\nI appreciated your present very much.\nK:\nI hope you give the reasons for it publicly.\nG:\nWell I will, I going down there to get laundered, is that okay.\nK:\nSure.\nG:\nListen, I want to thank you for coming by last night.\nK:\nNot at all, it seemed like a great party, a lot of friends were\nthere.\nG:\nI appreáciate it very much.\nK:\nWell, I was delighted and you know I've respected your work\nenormously. That's why it's occasionally painful, but I've\nnever doubted, you know, what you stood for.\nG:\nWell, I'd like to, I really would like to have a breakfast and\ntalk about the rest of the world, something that that other party's\ngoing to take care of itself.\nK:\nLet's do that soon.\nG:\nOkay. I have been left by one of my--an editorial on this kind\nof situation in the hold up of the prisoners, which to be quite\nfrank about it, I find is--I myself am a little concerned with it,\nhe' it gives you the impression that the Saigon government is\nin fact not complying and although I have edited it, point out that\nthat has nothing to do with the release of the prisoners under the\nterms of the contract--\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nWell, I will say that we will use really maximum pressure on\nthem to comply. We have no interest to have gone through this\nagony to let them screw up the agreement.\nG:\nYeah.\nK:\nAnd, --\nG:\nZiegler is right, there is no connection between what we do and\nwhat Saigon does, but as a practical matter it is all one big ball\nof wax, isn't it.\nK:\nWell, you know, the North Vietnamese, the Vietnamese on both\nsides are bastards, you have to start with that. And they are too\nengaging in massive violations, not of the ceasefire than in terms\nof infiltration. But this may be, as it may be, it, we will use our\nmaximum influence and we are in discussions, just for your\ninformation, with the South Vietnamese now to bring about better\ncompliance.\nG:\nYeah, Okay, well that I think solves my problem. I just don't\nwant--the sound of the way this was before I put it through the\nmachine again, as if you know they were all right and Saigon was\nall wrong, I'm sure that isn't the case.\nK:\nThat is not true, but I can assure you we have in the last few days\nmade energetic representation.\nG:\nOkay.\nK:\nGood, Phil.\nG:\nThank you Henry.\nK:\nBye.\nG:\nBye, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\n5:35 pm, February 28, 1973\nAmbassador Cromer/Mr. Kissinger\nK:\nHello.\nC:\nOh, yes, sorry to worry you again. Now I have a telegram\ngiving a report of the NATO MEETING today.\nK:\nDon't tell me it didn't work.\nC:\nIt went on exactly the same as it was before. What is even\nhonor about it. Alec Humes saw Bill Rogers in Paris and they\nhad a word about what you and I discussed and Bill said exactly\nthe same to Alec as you said to me. I mean, give or take a week\nor so doesn't make too much difference. Your character Rumsfelt\nat the NATO meetings.\nK:\nHe's a bloody go-getter.\nC:\nI know he is. My report from my people say at the meeting this\nafternoon Rumsfelt continued to press for acceptance as soon as\npossible of the American--\nK:\nListen, people are raising hell with my staff for my allegedly\nslowed them down so the word has certainly gotten to the State\nDepartment.\nC:\nYes, well I'm sure it has, but either Rumsfelt hasn't got it or\nhe's not reading it.\nK:\nIs the meeting over now.\nC:\nYes, the meeting is over, they're not meeting again until Friday.\nK:\nOkay, I'll\nC:\nI said I'd let you know right away.\nK:\nLook, Rollie, by Friday he'll be slowed down or he'll be on vacation.\nC:\nI should tell you this is my interpretation, but that's what our\nchap's has reported back.\nK:\nOkay, we'll slow him down.\nC:\nOkay. Lookforward to seeing you tomorrow.\nK:\nRight, bye.\nC:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\nRon Ziegler/Mr. Kissinger\n5:37 pm, Feb. 28, 1973\nK:\nRon?\nZ:\nHi, Henry.\nK:\nWhat's eating you.\nZ:\nAnything new.\nK:\nNo.\nZ:\nNothing at all.\nK:\nNo, the message of today was on some other subject.\nZ:\nThey haven't reacted to our statement.\nK:\nWell, let's see what happens in the Commission.\nZ:\nYeah, but they are not going to meet tomorrow are they/\nK:\nAren they.\nZ:\nNo, they are not due to meet tomorrow.\nK:\nWell, then there's no plenirary session tomorrow. I've asked\nBunker to demand a meeting of the commision tomorrow.\nZ:\nWell, maybe they will. They were scheduled to meet Friday, so\nthey may meet tomorrow. We haven't heard back from Bunker.\nK:\nNo.\nZ:\nSay, did Golda Meir meet with King Hussein.\nK:\nNo.\nZ:\nSecretly.\nK:\nNo, for Christ sakes. You mean here in Washington.\nZ:\nYeah. Yesterday.\nK:\nThe truth is they are lovers.\nZ:\nNow, seriously, Bill Gill's calling me and he said that theyb asked\nGolda Meir whether or not she met with King Hussein yesterday\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nhere privately, and she said, Oh, you know about that already.\nK:\nHe's pulling your leg.\nZ:\nHe's not, Bill Gill\nK:\nLook, if she met with him, she'd never, never admit, it would be\nsuicide for both of them.\nZ:\nYeah.\nK:\nShe thought she was being funny.\nZ:\nYeah, but I should tell Gill. - he's not asking--\nK:\nWe have absolutely no reason to believe that if she did it, it\nwas kept a secret from everybody which is impossible, given\nall the security she's got.\nZ:\nOkay.\nK:\nGood.\nZ:\nOkay, thanks.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\nAmb. Rabin/Mr Kissinger\n6:15 pm, Feb. 28, 1973\nK:\nMr. Ambassador!\nR:\nHow are you?\nK:\nOkay. This is not one of your better days, is it?\nR:\nNo. The vote at the U. N., really I can't understand, it can't\nbe done now, really this is serious.\nK:\nWe tried to do something but it was too late. Lenny Down\ncalled us.\nR:\nI see. We vote for the condemnation, but at the same time to\nask for requiring commission. It defeats the purpose of it.\nHow can he condemn on the one hand and ask for an international\ninquiry commission. It like you told somebody you hate to be\nblamed but in addition to that, we are going to inquiry. What\ndoes it mean? And that you vote for it! ! I can't understand,\nit's really is almost sabotage. You'll have to say something\nabout it in public too.\nK:\nOf course.\nR:\nNow, I think, we just came back from the Pentagon. It was not\ngood. What time do you want to meet?\nK:\nOh, 7:00.\nR:\nI hope I'll make it..\nK:\nWell, make it 7:15.\nR:\n7:15 is better. Where?\nK:\nMap Room\nR:\nFine.\nK:\nGood, see you then.\nR:\nFine.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nGeorge Shultz/Mr. Kissinger\n6:27 p.m., February 28, 1973\nS:\nHenry, the more I think about the Sonnenfeldt idea, the better it seems\nto me.\nK:\nOkay.\nS:\nI wonder how you are reacting to it?\nK:\nI react very favorably to it.\nS:\nIt would be extremely helpful to me if he were to go on this trip with me.\nWould that be possible?\nK:\nCertainly.\nS:\nWould you want to tell him?\nK:\nLet me talk to him tomorrow. When are you going?\nS:\nWould leave March 8th and be back March 22nd.\nK:\nYeah. Let me talk to him. Would you promise him that position before-\nhand or indicate that it's likely?\nS:\nThe President knows him fairly well I understand.\nK:\nYeah, but you better let me talk to the President first because he's a\nlittle ambivalent.\nS:\nWell, before anything is said to him I would like to know that the\nPresident's on board.\nI don't want to bring it up with the President.\nI think it might be well if you did.\nK:\nOkay. Good. I'll do that tomorrow.\nS:\nAll right. And you'll tell Sonnenfeldt about the trip?\nK:\nRight.\nS:\nOkay.\nThank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nGeorge Shultz/Mr. Kissinger\n6:27 p.m., February 28, 1973\nK:\nHave you talked to Cooper?\nS:\nYes, and he seemed to be very pleased with the discussion and said he\nwas hoping to see you today or tomorrow.\nK:\nWere you impressed with him?\nS:\nYeah, I think he's a good guy. Yeah. And his only problem he said\nwas his family problem. He knew he was going to have to work very hard\nif he takes this job and he has to square that away with his wife and so on.\nK:\nRight.\nhave to\nS:\nSo I said well, that's right, you will work hard and you might as well go\ninto it with your eyes open.\nK:\nThat's right. No, there's no sense having anyone work for me on another\npremise.\nS:\nYeah.\nK:\nOkay.\nS:\nVery good. See you tomorrow morning.\nK:\nRight.\nBye.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\n6:28, Feb. 28, 1973\nAmbassador Cromer/Mr. Kissinger\nK:\nHello.\nC:\nHenry.\nK:\nRollie, I have called off the dogs for tomorrow. Will you then\nshow some patience with us when it comes around the track again.\nC:\nOh, yes, sure.\nK:\nAnd I will get our people together to see if we can get some\nsanity into the procedures. Because I think on the objectives\nwe are not in disagreement.\nC:\nI don't suppose at all on disagreements, purely on tactics and\nwe're saddened, not angry.\nK:\nYou're frightened. You have no reason to be.\nC:\nNo not frightened, I said saddened.\nK:\nOh, saddened--\nC:\nBecause they are without\nK:\nNow, Rollie, one other thing. We have instructed our Embassy\nin London to make aur presentations to you tomorrow.\nC:\nYes, good.\nK:\nNow, I cannot guarantee that we can turn off our Ambassador in\n24 hours once he's pointed in this.\nC:\nOh, that's all right.\nK:\nSo, you keep in mind what I'm telling you supersedes the.\nC:\nYes, surely. As long as your instructions get to Brussels-\nK:\nNo, no, Brussels is taken care of.\nC:\nAnd the other?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK:\nWell, wherever the instructions are sent\n-\nC:\nYou see, the NATO meeting and there's this guy Dean in Vienna.\nK:\nOkay, we'll\nC:\nIt's the guy Dean that's the one that's been\nK:\nWe'll get them both under control.\nC:\nOf course, we'll be as patient as necessary and would like to\nwork very closely with you.\nK:\nGood. A good meeting this afternoon?\nC:\nI think so.\nK:\nGood, thank you.\nC:\nGood, thank you so much.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSecretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger\n6:32 p.m., February 28, 1973\nR:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nKen, you called me earlier.\nR:\nHenry, I called you to tell you about my talk with Mrs. Meir.\nK:\nOh, yes. You talked to Scowcroft.\nR:\nI gave it to Scowcroft.\nK:\nWell, the Israelis are totally up in arms about our condemning them.\nR:\nOh, are they?\nK:\nYeah. I hadn't understood that this Icao condemned them before there\nis an investigation.\nR:\nWell, this is the very thing, Henry, that we've dissociated ourselves\nentirely from the Preamble. The Preamble says \"condemn\" and Scali\npushed very hard to have instead of condemn the Israeli action, it was\n\"deplore\" the action. I've had no report back from him but the last I\nheard was that there is absolutely no support in at all for that. Then\nwhen the Resolution came to a -- was to come to a vote authorizing the\ninvestigation, Scali was to entirely dissociate himself from the Preamble\nmention of \"condemnation\" but vote for the investigation, which means\nhe had to vote for the Resolution.\nK:\nYeah.\nR:\nWhen our people briefed the Israelis about this, and also at the UN, they\nwere quite calm and relaxed about the whole thing. Then at the very end\nof our lunch, which was a very interesting one and vigorous one but very\nwell I thought, Rabin who strangely enough was acting -- he was really\nalmost rude to Mrs. Meir - - it was quite strange. But I'll tell you a bit\nmore about that in a moment. He brought up the Icao. It was obvious that\nshe had not been briefed on it at all and I explained to her why we felt we\nhad to vote for the Resolution and told her how we were dissociating our-\nselves entirely, not only from the condemnation but doing everything we\nBy NARA, Date\nPer Hr. 11-20-2013\ncould to have that removed from the Preamble and the changes. So she\ngot a bit emotional and didn't think we should ever condemn them for\nE.O. 13526, Section 3.5\nDECLASSIFIED\nanything and I said we weren't condemning, we were dissociating ourselves\nfrom it but that our credibility in terms of trying to bring discipline to\nthe air, in terms of trying to bring about negotiations between the Israelis\nof\nand the Arabs and would be undermined if we did not vote for it. Everyone\nelse is going to vote for it except the Israelis and maybe Costa Rica or\nsomeone like that. I didn't mention that we would be isolated with regard\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger\n- 2 -\n6:32 p.m., February 28, 1973\nR:\n(cont'd) to the 25%. It would hurt us there very seriously because I\nknew that would not appeal to her. But I did mention that all of our\npeople felt that our vote against it also would probably result in very\naction by the Libyans against our installations in Libya and\npossibly attacks on our aircraft. But she felt quite emotional about it\nand obviously had not been briefed at all by her people on it. They just\ntold her about it. Now the interesting thing is, Henry, when she came\nin, we went to my office and had a very pleasant discussion about -- I told\nher all about our talks with Ismail and also with Hussein. We then threw\nthe lunch. Rabin whenever Mrs. Meir was talking, both before we went\ninto lunch and afterward, he kept saying this is a business lunch. He\nwould shuffle his papers and look at his watch when she was talking, you\nknow she likes to talk, and he would interrupt her at one point after\nanother. We took up the production of planes, the supply of planes, the\nIraqi treatment of Jews and to what degree could we help and the exit\ntax and the entire problem with regard to Russia. All in all, this went\nalong very well. We had very nice toasts. They grasped it well and then\nshe just brought up this. Up to that time she showed no -- she knew all\nabout it all the time. It wasn't something she just learned. She knew it\nwhen she came in.\nK:\nWell, I thought I would hear something from her during the day. When\nI didn't, I thought it was all worked out.\nR:\nWell, we thought it was too.\nK:\nWell, okay. Don't let's worry about it, it's done.\nR:\nI don't know what else we could have done really, Henry.\nK:\nYeah. I don't know either. Look, Cromer called me and said that\nRumsfeld was as anesthetic today as ever.\nR:\nWell, he was not supposed to have been. I'm sending a cable out\ntonight, which your office is resisting and I told them if they did resist\nit, for you to call me. Sending a cable out telling them that our big\nproblem has been that we wanted to avoid a stalemate, which we felt\nsure we would lose with the Russians, and if we turned it into a publicity\nitem which we are sure to have to give way, it would mean of course\nthat we enter the negotiations looking over-anxious and weak. This\nprocedural thing -- this should be treated as a procedural thing, although\nwe do know it's substantive, of course, and not be turned into a big issue.\nBut now it turns out, we say in the cable, that instead our allies are\nmisinterpreting this somewhat and feeling that we are bringing pressure\nto bear on them and that this we do not want to do and we're not going to\nmake any more demarches in capitals for the time being. We will take\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified\nSecretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger\n- 3 -\n6:32 p.m., February 28, 1973\nR:\n(cont'ed) our time to work this thing out.\nK:\nYou know, our time -- a couple of weeks.\nR:\nSure. I didn't say a couple of weeks but this is the case.\nK:\nNo, no; that is what you should have in mind.\nR:\nExactly. But your people are against this cable. We were having trouble\nwith JCS too. But to get the thing clearly in mind, I wanted to put it on\nthe record in the cable.\nK:\nOkay, I'll get my people to clear it.\nR:\nTell them to clear it, would you, Henry?\nK:\nYeah.\nR:\nOkay.\nK:\nGood. Thank you, Ken.\nR:\nFine, Henry. See you soon.\nK:\nWe're having lunch Friday.\nR:\nWe're having lunch Friday.\nK:\nLook forward to it. Where are we doing that, you r office at mine.\nR:\nAt yours. Well, I'd love to have you in mind if you'd like to come over.\nK:\nWhichever you think is more efficient.\nR:\nWell, I would be delighted for you to come over to the State Department.\nK:\nI'll come over.\nR:\nThat would be very nice.\nK:\nIt's a terrible comedown for me.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive DECLASSIFIED Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger\n- 4 -\n6:32 p.m., February 28, 1973\nR:\nWell, that's the point.\nK:\nof locale but not of person.\nR:\nI'm afraid --\nK:\nBut you will be Acting Secretary that day, won't you because --\nR:\nI will be Acting Secretary.\nWell,\n/\nK:\nThat makes it possible.\nR:\nWe will be able to eat in the Secretary's dining room.\nK:\nOkay.\nR:\nHenry, I might just tell you this -- in case you want to see the President.\nI'm writing this to you -- The Israelis pressed very, very hard with\nregard to producing planes. I told them that we were studing it very\ncarefully, that there were many angles involved and that frankly, I\nthought in this emotion-charged atmosphere of the Libyan planes, to\nannounce this would not be to their advantage or to our advantage but\nthat that had nothing to do with our studing it and that we were studing\nit very sympathetically and while we couldn't say yes as of now, certainly\nwe were not being negative in any way. That this is an issue of course\nthat would reach the President. They also pushed very hard with regard\nto trying to get the 36 Thou from the 30 Phantoms. You know, our plan\nis to say --\nK:\nYeah, I know it.\nR:\nI told them that the big thing was for us to try to supply on a steady basis\nwhatever is sufficient to keep them strong because their strength has kept\nthe Middle East ceasefire in effect. And that we might even want to study\ninstead of the sporadic crisis things, which have been true in the past,\nthe program over the next four years or five years or over a longer\nperiod. We might not think this advisable but it should be studied. And\nthat we therefore were not in the position to give a decision right now\nbut that politically and every other way, there was no change and we\nintended to support them and be steadfast in their support. Now it could\nvery well be that if the President sees fit to do so, because of this Icao\nthing and in order that she can take ething back with here, the\nPresident would want to tell them now that we are going to if they want\nto go ahead, as she says they do want to, on the production of the planes,\nwe will see to it that they do get an affirmative answer in the proper time.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified\n117hn21.154.65\nSecretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger\n- 5 -\n6:32 p.m., February 28, 1973\nK:\nOkay.\nR:\nI think that might be --\nK:\nMight be a wise idea.\nR:\nMight help make her feel good.\nK:\nGood.\nR:\nOkay, Henry. Bye.\nK:\nbye.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive DECLASSIFIED Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified) - 47/12361/P.5.\nTelCon\nScotty Reston/Mr. Kissinger\n6:45 pm, Feb. 28, 1973\nK:\nHello.\nR:\nHenry.\nK:\nOh, Scotty, h;0w are you.\nR:\nFine, how are you.\nK:\nOkay.\nR:\nI see you' re recovered from your long trip.\nK:\nYes, I guess I'm pretty well back in shape.\nR:\nI congratulate you. It was a marvelous tatrip.\nK:\nIt really was the best trip since the first one to China. I\nmean the China part. The Hanois are more delecate and\ncomplex situation.\nR:\nYeah, well, you know, it'll go on that way, it's awful\ncomplex in the South too.\nK:\nThat's right. Excactly right. Can we have lunch, breakfast or--\nR:\nOh sure, any time.\nK:\nI had the impression you weren't free this week.\nR:\nWell I've got to go to Buffalo tomorrow, and then I'll beback\non Friday for Meir's lunch, and then any time.\nK:\nYou want to do it Monday. Breakfast or lunch, whichever\nyou prefer.\nR:\nLet's have breakfast.\nK:\nGood, at the Metropolican Club?\nR:\nRight.\nK:\nWe can have breakfast and we can talk also about the interview\nwhich we still have hanging.\nR:\nAll right, fine. What time is best for you.\nK:\nAbout 8:15.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nR:\n8:15 is fine.\nK:\nGood. I forget whether you live anywhere near - - how do you\nget down.\nR:\nI've got a ride down.\nK:\nYou have, I would have offered to drop by.\nR:\nWell, where are you.\nK:\nI'm on Mass. avenue near the Mosque, Waterside drive.\nR:\nWell, I think you'd have to hook back. I'll see you at 8:15.\nK:\n8:15 at the Metro Club.\nR:\nThank you Henry.\nK:\nGood, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n6:50 pm, Feb. 28, 1973\nK:\nMr. President.\nP:\nHi, Henry, anything new before I have to prepare for the\nGovernor.\nK:\nNo. We got a long message from the NVN today which\navoided the prisoners issue completely, just bitching about\nmining. I think they have raised enough issues on which we\ncan give them satisfaction.\nP:\nUh humm. Bitching about the mining, not our decision, but--\nK:\nNo, no, bitching about the fact that we were going too slowly.\nwhich is partially true because I had told them to go slowly\nso, that I know, we can speed up.\nP:\nUh humm.\nK:\nAnd, we'll give them an answer tomorrow.\nP:\nYeah. What is your dissipation then, that it will drag on through\nthe weekend perhaps, or --\nK:\nNo, because we won't go to the session tomorrow if they don't\ndo something. We've asked Bunker to ask for a meeting of\nthe Joint Military Commission tomorrow.\nP:\nYeah.\nK:\nIt's bound to meet on Friday. My guess it will be settled\nby Friday.\nP:\nHummm.\nK:\nNo later than Friday.\nP:\nDo they have to have a meeting of the Commission in order\nfor the thing to meet.\nK:\nThey just sent over the list.\nP:\nThat's my point. Well, what--\nK:\nI've read now the conversation between the Secretary and\nSinh, and the guy was trying to snooker us.\nP:\nHe was?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nYeah, he said that they would all be released in 60 days,\nand they'll be released in four installments, but he didn't\nsay these installments would be in 15 days.\nP:\nYeah.\nK:\nSo, he's just given a little twist to what he said.\nP:\nUh humm.\nK:\nAnd that the Commission would work out the time of the\ninstallments.\nP:\nBut that was in the Protocal already wasn't it.\nK:\nThat's right. Absolutely, the Protocol said no question\neven the New York Times said we are right.\nP:\nUh humm. Well they are just kinda horsing around, isn't\nthat it. But/Ken would have never told Rogers it would seem\nto me.\nK:\nNo, I know these bastards, what they would have do ne next\nis to argue that these four installments can all be in the last\nweek.\nP:\nYeah, in order to keep our nose to the grindstone.\nK:\nTo keep our nose to ghe grindstone. That's how they would\nhave played it.\nP:\nWell, let us suppose, just as a contengency, that this fellow--\nthat they don't furnish the list and Rogers just has to stonewall\nat that meeting--\nK:\nHe just can't go to the meeting, and that mobilize others\nagainst the NVN.\nP:\nIt should, shouln't it. On this issue--\nK:\nDomestically, I think our defending the POW's cannot lose.\nP:\nThat's right. People don't give a damn about the conference.\nThey care a great deal about the POW's.\nK:\nAnd we take the position, what's the sense of endorsing\nan agreement that's being broken.\nP:\nRight.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nP:\nOkay, then I am planning as you know on this press thing,\nI don't plan anything before Monday.\nBut I plan to go\nMonday.\nK:\nI think by Monday, it will either be a lot worse or solved.\nP:\nIf it's a lot worse, we won't go at all. Or we may.\nK:\nI think it's going to solved.\nP:\nOkay.\nK:\nRight, Mr. President.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n7:26 p.m., February 28, 1973\nP:\nWould there be any problem as far as when you talked to Chou En-lai.\nHe would have no objection if we recommended it to have the small\nbi-partisan group of Governors. I mean, in other words, just something\nthat they naturally are tremendously interested in.\nK:\nBut I don't think we can announce it as having been agreed to.\nP:\nCould we just say that we know a lot of them are interested and that\nwe hope that --\nK:\nThat we'll take it up.\nP:\nThat we'll be glad to take it up.\nK:\nThat you can certainly say.\nP:\nI'll just simply say that this is a matter we have discussed and I notice\nsome of the Governors have expressed an interest and we will take the\nmatter up.\nK:\nThat you can safely say.\nP:\nFine. All right.\nK:\nRight, Mr. President.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nJoe Alsop/Mr. Kissinger\n8:35 p.m., February 28, 1973\nK:\nJoe, I just remembered that I hadn't phoned you about --\nA:\nDoesn't matter a damn. I didn't think you were coming but if you would\nlike to come at the last minute, there's a place.\nK:\nNo, no; I can't. But I want to note that your influence with Nancy is\ngreater than with me.\nA:\n(laughter)\nK:\nI told Nancy, moreover, that when you say me with another girl, you cut\nme dead at the party --\nA:\nI did, yes. Quite right. (laughter) I didn't know who she was -- she\nwas rather pretty. But I regard her as part of the coree plasanyway.\nK:\n(laughter)\nA:\nAnd I'll see you on Sunday.\nK:\nRight.\nA:\nVery good.\nK:\nBye.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Rabin (Israel)/Mr. Kissinger\n11:15 p.m., February 28, 1973\nR:\nHello.\nK:\nMr. Ambassador.\nR:\nYes, sorry to bother you but I believe that basically what we have\nagreed in on -- that is to say, that the question of production agreement\nof principle for at least 100.\nK:\nRight.\nR:\nSecond, on the second item, an effort to meet our numbers otherwise\nat least --\nK:\nI'll tell you, I will recommend the numbers but I don't believe it's an\nagreement that would stick even if it were made because then the\nDepartments would raise hell.\nR:\nWell, I believe that as we discussed, you will try your best and the\nminimum will be agreement on principle to supply the two kinds.\nK:\nExactly.\nR:\nAnd the number -- every effort will be done.\nK:\nTo come as close as possible to your number.\nR:\nYeah.\nK:\nExactly.\nR:\nThree, if we be asked about a private conversation on the two directions -\nK:\nYou will agree to them?\nR:\nWe will say well, we cannot say to you what you can do but we'll agree\non two conditions well, on two assumptions. One, that you will not\ndo anything behind our back.\nK:\nRight.\nR:\nI believe that we said --\nK:\nThat's correct. You have it correctly.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Rabin/Mr. Kissinger\n- 2 -\n11:15 p.m., February 28, 1973\nR:\nAnd second, that nothing will be done to commit you to something\nwhich will be completely unacceptable to us.\nK:\nRight. Right.\nR:\nIf this good, everything is agreed on.\nK:\nGood. I think you can count on that. If there should be any problem I\nwill see the President at 9:00. I'll call you --\nR:\nI'll be there at 9:30.\nK:\nGood. I'll call you -- If for any reason you don't hear from me, you\ncan assume that it's in order as we discussed.\nR:\nI think it will be better - -\nK:\nWell, you see, if I'm in the President's office, it will be hard for me --\nR:\nI know.\nK:\nBut I will do my utmost to call you.\nR:\nAnd I'll be at - -\nK:\nAt Blair House.\nGood, see you in the morning.\nR:\nBasically this another thing where\nwill be done in according to\nwhat we have talked about.\nK:\nRight, the only victim of this arrangement will be I but don't let that\nworry you.\nR:\nI'm sure you will find a way how to bail out.\nK:\n(laughter)\nR:\nDown a later stage at least.\nK:\nSomebody will catch up with me sometime.\nR:\nI think basically --\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nAmb. Rabin/Mr. Kissinger\n- 2\n11:15 p.m., February 28, 1973\nK:\nNo, no; but the basic problem is the time problem, which we discussed\nand it will serve that purpose.\nR:\nAll right.\nK:\nGood, Mr. Ambassador. Give my best to the Prime Minster.\nR:\nAll right.\nK:\nGood.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n11:30 p.m., February 28, 1973\nK:\nMr. President.\nP:\nOh, hi, Henry.\nK:\nJust wanted you to know we've won.\nP:\nOh, really!\nK:\nYep.\nP:\nThat's great. Tell me about it!\nK:\nWell, they -- we called Bunker and told him to demand a meeting of\nthe Four Party Commission. They hadn't scheduled it until Friday.\nThey wanted to have an initialling of the -- In Paris they wanted to\nhave an initialling of the Treaty tomorrow afternoon and Rogers called\nus and wept all over us that this would be awful if we didn't.\nP:\nBullshit!\nK:\nThat's what I said, that your orders were explicit; that you had\npersonally issued them.\nP:\nThat's right.\nK:\nAnd that you --\nP:\nWell, does he really think that we could sign the treaty with having this\nthing on -- nobody could do that.\nK:\nWell, he was so focussed on his Conference that he forgot the other game\nWell, we then called Bunker Bunker insisted on a meeting. They held\nthe meeting and their spokesman said the way is now clear to continue\nthe releases, we will not demand anything difficult from the United States\nside and it's as good as done.\nP:\nSay, you think that -- But he didn't give the names yet?\nK:\nNo but -- Well, this was at the beginning of the meeting and the meeting\nisn't concluded yet. The meeting just started about 15 minutes ago.\nP:\nYeah.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n- 2 -\n11:30 p.m., February 28, 1973\nK:\nBut when they go into the meeting and said the way is now clear to\ncontinue the releases, all is ready to continue the releases he said.\nP:\nYeah. Great.\nK:\nAnd all the news tickers say --\nP:\nOh, how did this get out? Did Bunker put it out?\nK:\nNo, Saigon -- the North Vietnamese fellow entering the meeting.\nP:\nOh, he said that.\nK:\nHe said it on the way in.\nP:\nOh-h-h, great. So what are the news tickers saying, Henry?\nK:\nThey say -- North Vietnam said today that the way is clear now to\nresume releases of U.S. prisoners of war. That's the lead on --\nP:\nYeah.\nK:\nAP. Reuter says the Chief Delegates -- The North Vietnamese\nspokesman said at last all is ready to continue the releases.\nP:\n(laughter)\nK:\nAnd the spokesman was asked whether General Hoa carried into the\nmeeting a list of the next group of 120 Americans to be freed. We\nwill tell you later today, the Colonel said. Well, that's a sure tip off.\nThe fact that they agreed to a meeting. They also told us in Paris they\nwanted us to have a discussion on the Economic Commission and Sullivan\ncalled in and asked what he should do and I said tell them we are not\nprepared to discuss it until the POWs are released. So they told him it\nwould be settled by Noon tomorrow, Paris time.\nP:\nGood, good.\nK:\nSo I think it's 99% done.\nP:\nUm-humm.\nK:\nAnd if we had been anything other than --\nP:\nWe wouldn't have had it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n- 3 -\n11:30 p.m., February 28, 1973\nK:\nNever! They would have fiddled us along.\nP:\nHenry, you can be sure they were going to keep those people hostage.\nWhat have they done up to date? That's the thing that Bill and the rest\nhave got to realize. They've been screwing us all the time. Now, they're\nnot going to do a thing and we'll continue to drag our feet in those mines\ntoo.\nK:\nMr. President, if we had let them drag -- If we had accepted what they\nsaid this morning, that they would do it within the 60 days but in four\nstages, they would have had the four stages all in the last three days.\nP:\nUm-humm.\nK:\nNow, your statement which forced them -- when you said this morning\nit was within 15 days --\nP:\nYeah, well, you put that in (laughter).\nK:\nNo, but that --\nP:\nThat's right, that's right.\nK:\nAnd your directing Rogers not to return, that did it.\nP:\nThat's the point. But, you know, really for us to -- Believe me, we're\nnot going to give them one thing if they renege on one part of this deal.\nNow, you know what I mean. This idea of going ahead -- What the hell\ndo we care about the Agreement. What the Christ do we care? Nothing.\nK:\nMr. President, at the end of March when our prisoners are out, then we\nare in great shape.\nP:\nThat's right.\nK:\nAnd they thought they could diddle us along and get a little public outcry\nstarted, focus it on Thieu.\nP:\nOn Thieu. They were trying to do him in, Henry.\nK:\nThat's right.\nP:\nThat's it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n- 4 -\n11:30 p.m., February 28, 1973\nK:\nAnd we just reacted very toughly. We sailed the whole mine sweeping\nfleet away. We didn't just have it inactive.\nP:\n(laughter)\nK:\nWe moved it a hundred miles off shore.\nP:\nThat's the stuff! And don't think they didn't notice that.\nK:\nOh-h-h. They don't usually cave unless you kick them in the groin.\nP:\nWell, I'm delighted. You know, we just have to, as we say, through\nall the East keep our balance and --\nK:\nYou said it this morning when the outcome wasn't clear.\nP:\nYeah, yeah. You know, we've just got to do that. Now do you still\nthink that I should wait till Monday for my news\n:\nK:\nWell, I don't know, Mr. President, whether you mightn't want to do\nit Friday if this thing comes off in a clear cut way.\nP:\nUm-humm. In other words, right on top of it, huh?\nK:\nWhy not?\nP:\nCould be.\nK:\nI mean, you'll have brought off another one. It's not as big as the\nJanuary one but still they tested you, you took charge and kept on course.\nWhat are the nitpickers going to say now?\nP:\nWell, course I could say -- yeah.\nK:\nWell, let's see what was agreed to.\nP:\nYeah. Well, we'll see. We'll see.\nK:\nBy Monday, the thing will certainly be done.\nP:\nBe done by then. The only thing is, you do it Friday -- yourpoint is\nthat it's the bigger news and we might as well hit it while it's hot.\nK:\nWell, if they gave us the names of the prisoners tomorrow, I'll be half\ninclined to do it tomorrow. You'd rather do it Friday?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n- 5 -\n11:30 p.m., February 28, 1973\nP:\nYeah, I see your point. And they just walk out there -- Because you see\nanother thing too, Henry, as you realize some of our critics have got\nout on a limb again. You notice that this morning the Times and the rest\nthis Sylvan Fox had these stories saying this thing is all going to hell.\nHave you noticed?\nK:\nExactly.\nP:\nDidn't you have that sense of\nthat they were trying to --\nK:\nOh, yeah, they were trying to gin something up again.\nP:\nUm-humm. Well, good. What time do we meet tomorrow?\nK:\nAt 11:00, and I have worked something out with her and the Ambassador,\nwhich I think you might consider, and it also would have the support of\nthe equipment side of the Defense and State Department, who have come\nin with an independent recommendation very similar to it.\nP:\nRight, right, fine. Why don't we move that time up to 10:30? What\ndo you think? Don't you think we need a little more time with her than\njust an hour and a half.\nK:\nOh, I think you can do it in an hour and a half.\nP:\nI think you're right too. It's all in English, that's right.\nK:\nRight.\nP:\nAnd also the point is, I'm going to get her in the right channel. She's\nnot going to just sit there -- you're going to talk about this damn thing\nand she knows.\nK:\nOh, yes, she'll be all right. I think -- it took some doing but I think\nshe's --\nP:\nOkay.\nK:\nRight, Mr. President.\nP:\nI'm glad to hear this thing.\nK:\nWell, congratulations.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\ntelcon\nRon Ziegler/Mr. Kissinger\n11:35 p.m., February 28, 1973\nK:\nRon, it looks as if our little yellow darlings have caved.\nZ:\nOh, you're kidding.\nK:\nNo.\nZ:\nOh, that's wonderful.\nK:\nWhen you play with your friends here, it usually turns out all right.\nZ:\nGee, that's great.\nK:\nI called Bunker and told him to demand a meeting of the Four Power\nCommission. They said Friday. I said the hell with it and drop\ndiscussions on the Economic Commission too so they agreed to meet\nat 11:00, which is now. But on the way in they said everything is now\nready for releases. So I'm sure that it's going to be done.\nZ:\nThat's perfect, isn't it?\nK:\nSo what you said is standing up very well.\nZ:\nYes, it sure is. I think it's going to work.\nK:\nOh, yeah. They just didn't have the cards this time.\nZ:q\nYeah.\nK:\nA year from now when I'm out of here, they're really going to put it to\nus. Not for that reason but a year from now,they're going to be tigers\nbut now they're not ready.\nZ:\nWell, if this works Kissinger --\nK:\nOh, no, this is going to work. This I was positive on. Maybe not today\nbut It will work tonight I'm sure.\nZ:\nYou think so?\nK:\nOh, yeah. By this time tomorrow, it will be all done.\nZ:\nIf it is, it's a good piece of work.\nK:\nWell, Ziegler, you played your invaluable role. Really, your briefing\ntoday was -- met even with my approval, and that's almost impossible.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nRon Ziegler/Mr. Kissinger\n- 2 -\n11:35 p.m., February 28, 1973\nZ:\n(laughter)\nK:\nNo, you did it just right and you gave it the right tone of menace both\nyesterday and today, as well as conciliation. It worked very well.\nZ:\nWell, thanks, Henry.\nK:\nOkay, Ron.\nZ:\nThanks for calling to let me know.\nK:\nOkay. Bye.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified."
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