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Ben Franklin/Mr. Kissinger
2
7:52 pm, May 15, 1973
F:
And pretended? Well, he says he went to Justice.
K:
Oh, he went to Justice. I, frankly, you know, I've been on the phone
all day long -- One person after another is trying to reconstruct activities.
Sometimes I wonder where the hell we are in this country.
F:
(laughter)
K:
I have been trying to conduct the foreign policy of the United States
under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. Do you think I remember
every last nuance of what happened?
F:
No, of course not.
K:
As far as I was concerned, it was finished at the end of July. How Taub
then convinced people at Justice that he should go is totally beyond my
knowledge. It was beyond my knowledge then. He went to Justice -- As
I
recall it, he got himself some sort of a waiver and then got himself
some sort of a passport.
F:
Umehum.
K:
I had no interest in the matter. My only interest in the matter was that
I knew Harold Gibbons, who had been in Hanoi 6 months previously. I
did not want to be in the position where somebody could say a chance to
release prisoners was presented to me and I turned it down. I, therefore,
talked to Taub and Gibbons.
F :
Um-hum.
K:
I stalled them long enough SO that I could determine what the facts were.
F:
And that was when you broke off contact and that was the end of it.
K:
That was the end of it at the end of July.
F:
Yeah. Were you astonished when it appeared in the papers that he had
almost gotten underway again?
K:
I was totally astonished.
F:
Okay, good luck.
K:
But then he used -- You know, he used his contacts with me at Justice.
This was not a matter to which I paid any particular attention. Once I had
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"ocrText": "Ben Franklin/Mr. Kissinger\n2\n7:52 pm, May 15, 1973\nF:\nAnd pretended? Well, he says he went to Justice.\nK:\nOh, he went to Justice. I, frankly, you know, I've been on the phone\nall day long -- One person after another is trying to reconstruct activities.\nSometimes I wonder where the hell we are in this country.\nF:\n(laughter)\nK:\nI have been trying to conduct the foreign policy of the United States\nunder extraordinarily difficult circumstances. Do you think I remember\nevery last nuance of what happened?\nF:\nNo, of course not.\nK:\nAs far as I was concerned, it was finished at the end of July. How Taub\nthen convinced people at Justice that he should go is totally beyond my\nknowledge. It was beyond my knowledge then. He went to Justice -- As\nI\nrecall it, he got himself some sort of a waiver and then got himself\nsome sort of a passport.\nF:\nUmehum.\nK:\nI had no interest in the matter. My only interest in the matter was that\nI knew Harold Gibbons, who had been in Hanoi 6 months previously. I\ndid not want to be in the position where somebody could say a chance to\nrelease prisoners was presented to me and I turned it down. I, therefore,\ntalked to Taub and Gibbons.\nF :\nUm-hum.\nK:\nI stalled them long enough SO that I could determine what the facts were.\nF:\nAnd that was when you broke off contact and that was the end of it.\nK:\nThat was the end of it at the end of July.\nF:\nYeah. Were you astonished when it appeared in the papers that he had\nalmost gotten underway again?\nK:\nI was totally astonished.\nF:\nOkay, good luck.\nK:\nBut then he used -- You know, he used his contacts with me at Justice.\nThis was not a matter to which I paid any particular attention. Once I had"
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