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DOCUMENT
DOCUMENT
NUMBER
TYPE
SUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS
DATE
RESTRICTION
1
Telcon
HA-K / The President
1
3pgs
7/4/73
B
MANDATORY REVIEW REQUEST NUN04-01/7
DECLASSIFIED
per RAC review 4/22/09
FILE GROUP TITLE
BOX NUMBER
HAK Telephone Converstions
20
FOLDER TITLE
1973 2-9 June
10
RESTRICTION CODES
A. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.
E. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or
B. National security classified information.
financial information.
C. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's
F. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law
rights.
enforcement purposes.
D. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy
G. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.
or a libel of a living person.
H. Withdrawn and returned non-historical material.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION DECLASSIFIED
NA 14021 (4-85)
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON (San Clemente)
Dave Kraslow/Kissinger
12:06 p.m. - 7/2/73
K:
Hello.
DK:
Sir, would you have any objection to my calling this young lady and
telling her of our conversation.
K:
No. But tell her I'm not asking for anything. I just think she should
have checked it.
DK:
All right. And tell Dick I will check with him - when you coming back?
K:
Probably Sunday.
DK:
You coming Sunday?
K:
Yeh.
DK:
Will the President be coming back as well?
K:
I'm pretty sure.
DK:
OK. Thank you, Henry.
K:
Good. Right.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON (San Clemente)
Dobrynin/Kissinger
12:10 p.m. - 7/2/73
K:
Hello.
D:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Anatol, how are you?
D:
Thank you very much,
K:
Anatol, I'm calling you about the following. In the spirit of the conversation
between Brezhnev and the President, the Chinese have told us they wanted
to deliver a message to us this week so we have invited them to come out
here to deliver it on Friday.
D:
I see.
K:
Which is the latest day this week we could do it.
D:
I understand. Who it will be?
K:
Huang Chen. The head of the Liaison Office.
D:
Oh yes, I understand. I see.
K:
And we just - on a confidential basis wanted you to know about this.
D:
I think it good gesture.
K:
We will announce it but we wanted you to know that while it will be said
that we invited them the context is that they want to deliver something
and I will discuss it with you next week.
D:
When it will be announced?
K:
Later today.
D:
Today. Is it a message from
o
K:
They didn't say. It's a message from their government.
D:
Oh, I see. You don't know what is the theme of it?
K:
No, but I have a pretty good idea and so do you.
D:
(Laughs) OK, Henry.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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2
K:
I don't think it will express approval of what has been done.
D:
Well, probably this is the point. Maybe it express approval.
K:
I would be astonished.
D:
Well, I understand.
K:
I will be - when I'm back I will tell you about it.
D:
Yeh, OK, thank you very much. I will mention it.
K:
But you might mention the context to Brezhnev and to say that this is
in the spirit of what we discussed.
D:
What context?
K:
The context is that they asked to deliver a message this week as soon
as possible.
D:
You mean from the government?
K:
Yes.
D:
But no context of the letter.
K:
No.
D:
I understand. Thank you very much. I will right away
K:
But you see they proposed to deliver the message as early as they could
this week and we've given them an appointment for Friday.
D:
I see. But it is a message directed to the President.
K:
Yes.
D:
And he will be delivered in person.
K:
Probably.
D:
Yeh, I understand. OK, Henry. Thank you very much.
K:
Bye.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON (San Clemente)
Irving Lazar/Kissinger
12:48 p.m. - 7/2/73
K:
Hello.
L:
Hello.
K:
Irving.
L:
Yes, how are you sir?
K:
OK. I just wanted to ask you one question. Since after these hearings
are over I'll want to make some decisions.
L:
You want to make a decision?
K:
I have to consider my situation. And I wondered from your knowledge
of the situation, do you think that the sort of thing we were talking about
is still feasible in the same range?
L:
Just a little better, that's all.
K:
Better?
L:
Yeh, I was conservative from the beginning as I ususally am in order
not to be in a position of embarrassment. I can only tell you it's the
same if not better - your position is the same if not better than it ever
was. No question about it. I have never told you as much as I could
have because you didn't want to hear it which is fine. But I can only
tell you that from my analysis and also from my rather conservative
and most delicate inquiry in just listening and not talking, it is my
conviction that everything I told you is absolutely the case and not better.
K:
Despite Watergate?
L:
Oh, Watergate has nothing to do with it. If anything it enhances the
potential of the enterprise many fold because of reasons I'll discuss
with you when I see you.
K:
Well, it makes it easier to write because one of the things I always said
to you was I didn't know how to express my views.
(Con't.)
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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2
TELCON
July 2, 1973
Mr. Kissinger - Irving Lazar
12:48 p.m. cont.
L: direction question
I
will give you a direct answer and that is this:
unequivocably the watergate situation makes the enterprise - enhances the
enterprise for one thing--makes it far more dynamic, not that the other
wouldn't have been but that as a dimension which is in addition rather than
in some way a deletion or in any way removes some of the attraction.
K: I appreciate this.
L: Not
when I think about you I think about you and in relation to your
project and the possibilities and potentialities and where it could be in
any way diminished and I assure you
this is not off the top of my head,
I've thought about it many times
I can only tell you that, in the first place,
if it does anything it enhances the project. And everything I've told you I've
never pursued in accordance precisely with your directions to do more than
listen and in my listening I've come to the conclusion that it was always coxi-
conservative and fair and will not be embarrassed when the chips are down.
Which means a lot to me.
K: Well, that I won't hold you to. I just wanted to get a rough estimate.
L: You haven't got a rough one. You've got a clear cut.
K: Right. Because some basic decisions of mine will be somewhat.
L: It is a clearcut response to what you've asked me.
K: Good, I appreciate it, Irving. It was good to see you yesterday.
L: I'm delighted always at the joy of seeing you. I'll look forward to seeing
you are the Ziffren's and the only reason I never talk to you about anything
K: No, I don't want you to.
L: If you don't want me to
so I don't.
K: No, no, I don't want you to. And the only reaso n I asked you this was because
I'll have to do some thinking when these hearings are over.
L: OK, that's marvelous. Of course, that may be two years.
K: No, after Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Haldeman have testified the basic facts
will be out.
L: You've Straughn, Mitchell, Haldeman, Ehrlichman.
and then a recap of
about 5 more people
Moore. You've got about 14 or 15 people as I see it.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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3
K: Yeah, but the key ones you've mentioned and that should be inished by
middle August.
L: Yeah, about that,, but then they are going to be brought back to rebuttle
for rebuttle purposes.
K: Yeah, but that
L: I think you are right. I think that by Sept. 1 this thing will have crystallized
into what they want to do one way or another.
K: Exactly.
L: So I think that will happen. By that time Cox will have made his decision
as to what he wants to do and whether there are going to be any indictments
or not. It may well be that there will be less than people think.
K: I doubt that. I know Cox.
L: Well, I'm hoping that there are.
K: I've got to run, Irving.
L: This had struck the country so much, it's an upheaval. At any rate, I'll
see you at the Ziffrens. I give you my direct answer and I still don't do anything
which could possibly cause you any kind of necessity for explanation of any sort.
K: Exactly.
L: I know exactly and I subscribe to it. I am most zealous about it.
K: Good, I appreciate that, Irving.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON (San Clemente)
Laird/Kissinger
10:10 a. m. - 7/3/73
K:
Hello.
L:
Hi, Henry, how are you?
K:
Good.
L:
Getting along all right?
K:
Well, you know as well as one can get along without you here.
L:
Oh, I know. Well, I hope you missed me a little bit, Henry.
K:
I do miss you.
L:
That was a nice party Friday night. I enjoyed being with you.
K:
Well, you know you made quite a hit with my Hollywood friends. I
can't let you come out there anymore.
L:
I'm sure I did.
K:
Listen Mel, I got - I'm getting an award tomorrow from something
called the Institute of Public Service which is a new group. They're
also giving an award to John Gardner and to Jablonski. It has $5,000
attached to it which I'm giving to charity. I'm not taking that. Charles
Bartlett is one of the organizers and he wondered - he asked me only
today whether I could designate someone to accept the award for me
and I was wondering whether you would agree to do that.
L:
I'd be delighted to. Where is it Henry?
K:
It's in Washington on the grounds of Mt. Vernon Junior College.
L:
What time?
K:
In the evening, July 4th.
L:
Henry, in the evening of July 4th I'll be speaking at the Congressional
Medal of Honors Dinner, their annual convention down at Daytona
Beach. I had that speech for a long time.
K:
No, no. You can't change that and you shouldn't change that.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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2
L:
And it's all the Congressional Medal of Honor winners from World
War II and World War I and from Vietnam and I can't change that.
It's the Fourth of July at Daytona Beach and I'm going down there
tomorrow afternoon.
K:
OK. Well, I'm sorry. In fact you were my only choice.
L:
I would love to do it Henry, and I'm awfully sorry about that.
K:
I wonder whom I could ask who is
L:
What about Bryce - would you mind Bryce doing it?
K:
No, Bryce - let me think about that. Bryce might be a good man.
You know he hasn't been that closely associated with me.
L:
What about Eliot?
K:
Eliot could do it; that's a good idea.
L:
Eliot will be here in town and Eliot was closely associated with you
in many ways.
K:
That's true. That's a good thought.
L:
And you know he really has great appreciation for you.
K:
That's a good thought. Which is more than one could have said about
you.
L:
(Laughs)
K:
I wanted to get you on record saying one favorable thing. OK, Mel
I'm sorry you can't do it.
L:
Well, I'm sorry too, and I feel very honored that you'd ask me.
K:
Well, you're a good friend and
L:
But I do
K:
No, no, there's no choice about it.
L:
This is something that's been set up for a long time.
K:
I don't know why they only asked me today because when I said I wasn't
going to go there I think they got a little sore.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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3
L:
Well, I'm awfully sorry about that Henry that I can't do it.
K:
Well, I'll either ask Eliot or Bryce Harlow.
L:
I was just trying to think of someone that was here and I think that
that would - that those are the two I would think of right off the top
of my head. And Eliot has been closer to you.
K:
Yeh, Eliot can talk with some conviction about what we've done
together. That's a good idea.
L:
Yeh, I think he could.
K:
That's a good thought.
L:
OK.
K:
Right, thank you.
L:
Bye.
K:
Bye.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/Amb. Dobrynin
12:00 noon 7/3/73
HK:
Hello, Anatol, how are you?
AD:
Thank you very much, how are you?
HK:
I'm fine.
AD:
I see that you are very busy and I am lazy.
HK:
Where are you?
AD:
Right now, I am in the Embassy
HK:
I see. well we are settling all problems out here.
AD:
Is my impression really it is very busy now. After Brezhnev. (laughs)
HK:
No, not very. I told you about this thing yesterday and I am going to
talk to you when I get back.
AD:
Yeh.
HK:
You know the invitati on is only in the technical sense. But Anatol what
I wanted to ask you is this, some leaders of the Jewish community wanted
to come out here to see me, and including one of whom who claims he
talked to you at the President's dinner. Stein.
AD:
I already invite him--I didn't give answer yet.
HK:
No, no, my problem is I don't .probably I will not let them come out
here--I'll see them in Washington. But the thing that puzzles me is we
haven't talked to them at all about the results of the summit and you remei
that first conversation I had with Brezhnev --
AD:
Yes.
HK:
And I have never understood what happened after that.
AD:
Neither do I.
HK:
And you see frankly if there is anything like that that I could tell them
then it would be worth seeing them and it would help with the legislation
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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3
I think it would be better to delay it when you will be back here.
Well, I'll certainly-- I tell you now I will not see them here, because
I don't want to create the impression that we are having a special
meeting that requires a long trip. But you see there has been no
official WH discussion with them about the summit at all, except that
Joe Sisco has been running around saying profound things. And he
doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. So I'm wondering
Anatol whether you could find out for me by the time I get back next
week whether there is anything at all that I can say along the lines
Brezhnev said to me that Sunday evening in Camp David.
):
Okay, I check with him once more, but now he is in Moscow-- I will
check with him what he really has in mind and I will tell you--and
for the same reason he called me and that day I give him two days
to come with his wife to have lunch--
K:
That's your privilege--you can do with--
D:
No, mo because you mentioned to me--that's why I'm just telling you.
HK:
I think it is a good idea as a matter of fact to --it shows a spirit
of conciliation. So that is not the point. The point is only that he
is one of those who wants to see me and he wants to know, you know,
what I can tell him. And it would of course--if what Brezhnev said
that Sunday night could be repeated in some appropriate form, that
would be a very significant statement.
AD:
Okay--when will you be back more or less
HK:
I'll be back completely on Monday- I'm completely also on Monday.
No because you said when will you be back more or less, so I wanted
to assure you when I'm back it will be com. I'll be completely back
AD:
Now I owe you one okay?
HK:
That's right--you owe me a lunch- I better fast for a few days.
How about Wednesday? Hello?
AD:
Just a minute-
HK:
Or Thursday is perhaps even betterfor me.
AD:
Couldn't you make on Tuesday, because on Wednesday I have a *uch lunch.
with the French Ambassador
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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ge 3
:
And Thursday with the Israeli ambassador--
:
What about Tuesday
<:
All right- >I'll shift, I have something on Tuesday but I will shift it in
your honor.
D:
1:15 - all right
IK:
1:15 at the Embassy.
AD:
At the embassy.
HK:
Okay and and I will - then we can talk about the matter we discussed
yesterday.
AD:
Yes. I will try to get the answerbefore that time--
HK:
Good excellent.
AD:
receive the telegram that was from our Brezhnev to XNX President
about your fourth day --national day
HK:
Oh, I haven't seen that yet. But I appreciate that message you sent me
about this last leg of your trip.
AD:
Well I hope you will tell me something too
HK:
Oh yes. No, no, no you can count on - That's understood. I think though
that it is better if I do it personally, don't you
AD:
Oh there is no hurry--
HK:
You can absolutely count on it and you can tell them in Moscow that I
will do that.
AD:
--to cement (?) the Xxxack mutual understanding
HK:
No, I think it should be the general practice
AD:
And you received the
on this one on the last SS-9?
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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Page 4
HK:
Yes, I did. Well our people aren't happy, but I'm going to try to keep
it--
AD:
This is really--
HK:
No, I thought it was a quick reply.
AD:
I received a postscript
HK:W Well let me see I may ask you let's discuss it on Tuesday. I may
ask you to repeat it you and I may have to discuss to X find some
formal way of stating the same thing again. Like in the standing
committee,
AD:
Okay
it
HK:
And then we would accept/there.
AD:
Oh you would like to have it there.
HK
Let me think about--it's a
AD:
because if you would like the letter to go to check with
I think it will not understand why he checked with them.
HK:
Let me Anatol let me see what our bureaucratic problem is on that.
AD:
Okay--
HK:
I assume the truth has been told because we would certainly find out
if it wasn't.
AD:
Oh I m sure you could find out
HK:
I don't see any point--and it sounds plausible to me.
AD:
Yes, because I could tell you our people--couldn't tell you anything
HK:
No, I don't think the purpose of one of these buildings can remain secret
for very long.
A:)
By the way this seems to be Very a reply from Moscow very important
other-ise-
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Page 5
HK:
No, no we took it very seriously and it was very much appreciated.
It was very much appreciatedAnatol. No I will try to keep it in this
channel.
AD:
Yes, I think this is the way because there could be some additional things.
HK:
Let me keep it in this channel for the time being. There
AD:
Or it could go to Brezhnev himself. It is no problem.
HK:
There is no sense getting him involved--I'm assuming that buildings
of this magnitude you can't hide the purpose of for an indifinite period
of time, so I'm assuming it is the truth.
AD:
And now, Henry, when my Ministers
a member of the Politburo
seems to become politiking (?) not only for
foreign policy but other views.
HK:
Well, you told me that earlier and I think that's a very important
statement.
AD:
It is important statement.
HK:
Good and you will find that in Helsinki that we are moving in a
constructive direction.
AD:
We need you on all the points until the 30th of October.
HK:
That's right. Anatol, I'll see you next Tuesday.
AD:
Next Tuesday we'll eat here. Thank you very much.
HK:
Good.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/Len Garment
12:05 p.m.
7/3/73
HK:
Hello.
LG:
Henry,
if that gives you a real problem, let,'s put it off
HK:
Len, here is my suggestion, first I had had Dinitz here this morning
LG:
Oh you did have him there.
HK:
I had Dinitz and his view is that it would actually help thim if I didn't
see them out here.
LG:
All right. I didn't realize that.
HK
Well I didn't realize--I realized he was coming here but when I talked
to you I didn't know what his view was going to be, that's why I siad
I'll call you back in two hours. Secondly, I'm going to get an answer
from Dobrynin ah--and on Tuesday--on what exactly Brezhnev meant
with his comment and I think for both of these reasons it would be better
if I didn't see them until I had had a talk with Dobrynin. And I also
found out Len that that idiot Stein approaching Brezhnev directly may
have queered things. Or Dobrynin directly. That's what
Dinitz thinks. That's neither here nor there. The major point now
is tell them I will see them anytime next week after Tuesday.
LG:
Or the week after that.
HK:
Or the week after that is even better for me.
LG:
Very good.
HK:
How is everything else going? I get some rumblings out here.
LG:
Do you have a good war you can send me off to?
HK:
Len, I admire what you are doing, seriously. Thank you.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Richardson/Kissinger
12:45 p.m. - 7/3/73
K:
Hello.
R:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Eliot, how are you?
R;
Pretty good, how are you?
K:
OK. I was going to ask you for a favor. That always is a prelude
to asking for immunity.
R:
I'd be happy to do anything I can, Henry, you know that.
K:
No, what I wanted is this. I'm getting an award tomorrow for Distinguished
Public Service from a - together with John Gardner and I think one other
person, but mine is in the public service category and they've just asked
me about an hour ago - I had told them I wouldn't be able to come - whether
there would be somebody that would possibly be willing to accept it on
my behalf and I thought given our long association I'd be very honored
if you'd be willing to do this.
R:
Where is it, Henry?
K:
It's in Washington. Charlie Bartlett is one of the organizers and he
could give you the details. It's in the evening tomorrow on the grounds
of Mt. Vernon Junior College. It's a rather prestigious award. It's
the first year they're giving it.
R:
All I would do would be to get up and is there anything you would want
me to say for you?
K:
Whatever you feel appropriate to say.
R:
Would you like to have something I could read for you?
K:
Well, I might just send a few lines and anything you would like to say
on your behalf, but that's not required. It's just - I wanted somebody
who'd work with me and who represents some of the better things in
our Administration.
R:
I'd be glad to do it Henry. I'd be honored.
K:
I'd be very pleased and it's not - Charlie C an tell you. I think this is
the last award that's going to be given. It's not a very heavy occasion
so what they had asked me to do is to say something for 5 minutes.
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2
R:
Yeh, well, if you'd then - I'm sure they'd like to have at least part
of what I say be in your own words so if you have a chance to do
something and get it to me, I can, depending on its length and so on,
I can put it into a setting of my own words.
K:
That would be very nice, Eliot and it really would mean somthing
to me.
R:
OK, I would be more than glad to do that.
K:
I'll tell Charlie Bartlett to get in touch with you.
was to meet
R:
As a matter of fact, ironically I justxxxxxx Charlie at lunch. Some day
I'll tell you why this has been in many ways the worst day I've ever
seen. Just awful.
K:
Well, I know what you are - you know I hear occasional, I don't know
what happened today, but I hear occasional rumblings and I know what
you're up against.
R:
Some day I⁸ll tell you. Today the rumblings are worse than any day.
The problem is I've been on the phone most - a lot of the morning
with Haig on problems arising at that end but there are some others.
I'll tell you some day.
K:
Well, It's one of the most
R:
Anyhow I was supposed to have lunch with Charlie today and he spent
an hour and a half here waiting for me to show up.
K:
May I tell him to get in touch with you?
R:
Yeh, fine, sure.
K;
Good, thank you. And thank you very much and let's you and I have
lunch when I get back.
R:
I would like to very much.
K:
On the NSC part of your responsibilities.
R:
Good. OK. I haven't seen you since the Brezhnev production but I
thought it was great.
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Page 3
K:
Actually you know if one put it in the setting in which it was designed
it could have marked a symbolic move that the cold war was ending.
And
R:
Even in spite of everything.
K:
In spite of everything it was very successful
R:
I thought so too.
K:
I'll call as soon as I get back.
R:
Good.
K:
Thank you.
R:
Bye.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/Bernard Gwertzman
2:30 p.m. 7/3/73
BG:
How are you Dr. Kissinger.
HK:
Okay, how are you
BG:
Okay, sorry I'm not out in the sunny West. My wife had a baby you know.
HK:
Oh congratulations.
BG:
Right in the beginning of Brezhnev's trip.
HK:
Boy or girl?
BG:
Boy. Pretty hectic week though.
HK:
I'm delighted
BG:
Well, thank you. I'm just calling because we getting deluged now with
the typical rollercoaster effect from Peking--there is an AFP story
and there is a Keoto (sp?) News Agency all saying flatly you're coming
to Peking and you are going to meet with Sihounok, and
HK:
I'm just not going to commet on any of that until
BG
Until - --in other words, it's just where we left you yesterday that it is
a possibility.
HK:
That's right. We do not have a date set or a specific--
BG:
The problem with Sihounok of course is a more -provocative in a sense
HK:
Yeh
BG:
I imagine it would be rather fruitless to talk to him unless you had something
set up ahead of time.
HK:
I'm not prepared to say yet that I am prepared to meet with him
BG:
And ah - since
HK:
Since I'm not sure yet I'm going, since the it is senseless to say
what I'm doing when I get there.
BG:
Right so could we just say that it is being considered but nothing is firm
.would that be best?
HK:
That's right.
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BG:
Now on Friday when Huang Chen is out there in San Clemente is there
expected to be some jaor announcements after that-
HK:
Certainly not.
B:
Right. He'll be coming back that weekend?
HK:
You know we have somany heads of state coming to the US that even
if the Chinese were to come we wouldn't consider that a major announce-
ment.
BG:
I think it would be.
HK:
No, no, there--I do not anticipate a major announcement and if one
were to happen it is really--nothing is going to happen, it's almost
inconceivable. I mean it's just not that sort of meeting.
BG:
Right. Wouldn't be an XXXXX occasion to announce Chou En-lai is
coming.
HK:
Certainly not.
B:
Right, Okay much thanks.
HK:
You know if he were to announce to us that he's arriving, we wouldn't
reject but, look--don't take that seriously. I do not expect there is
no plan, there is --there has been no preliminary discussion, and
nothing is going to come out of this meeting other than the fact of it.
Nothing is going to be announced that I can now foresee.
BG:
Right. Okay. I had lunch today here with the Cambodian ambassador-.
seems like a bright fellow and he of course is rather interested in what
might take place as far as these negotiations. All I could tell him was
to sit tight. Do you expect any kind of conference developing any time soon?
HK:
In Cambodia?
BG:
On the Cambodian question, yeh.
HK:
I don't right away.
BG:
Is going to take some time. It's a tough one.
HK:
That line is not doing us any good. And you know it.
I don't see what earthly good it did.
BG:
Although I guess the mood of the Congress was such that that was the
best you could get.
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HK:
Yes, it's hard though to understand why that was now necessary. We
were prepared to stop unilaterally say by the middle of Sept if there
were no forced deadline.
BG:
I see. I didn't know that--that's what you proposed to Congress.
HK:
Yeh, but there is no sense debating it.
BG:
Okay, cheers,
HK:
Right thank you.
BG:
Right.
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/Tony Day
2:45 p.m. 7/3/73
T
HK:
ony, how are you?
&
TD:
All right, Henry.
HK:
I want to protest which is one of the most futile exercises about your
Cambodian editorial.
I understand your point of view and I have never harrassed you on it,
but to accuse us of cheating really goes a little far.
We stoppped any military activity for three weeks, we got the Cambodians
to observe the unilateral ceasefire, and it wasn't until the other side,
aided by the NVN started an offensive that we did anything. Now you can
still argue that we should be out anyhow, but to say we cheated is just
--and to quote what we said on Jan 24 without also pointing that the
Cambodians declared a unilateral ceasefire and we stopped all military
activities for three weeks is just not fair.
TD:
Of course we have been dealing with this sto some time and have pointed
out that in fact addressed both sides of the argument. the cessation of
one is we argue--is not the grounds for resuming the other.
HK:
You know, I have a different view on that too, but that I'm not debating.
That is what the editorial page is for.
TD:
Hm huh.
HK:
To state points of view and you know, the channel to state different ones
but that I have never complained about the substance of an editorial.
TD:
Your complaining. you think it is unfair to say that we --
HK:
It's unfair to say we've cheated, to quote something as if it had been
a misrepresentation when we did what I said we would do. and
well you know-- I just wanted to make the point.
TD:
Hm huh / Well consider it made. How are you otherwise.
HK:
I'm fine. I you know I respect your editorial page very much.
TD:
If you think we;ve been unfair everybody else tells us when we think
we have been unfair and we appreciate it.
HK:
You know I am bound to disagree with your point of view on Cambodia.
Because I think the strange thing that is happening now is that people
are fighting in Cambodia all the arguments that were made in Vietnam
and they are talking as if we didn't have a Vietnam settlement, and
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as if this were not --as if without it, we wouldn't have ended it anyway
this summer. So the only difference between us and our critics was
to be given an opportunity to negotiate a conclusion. And one of the
paradoxical results of this catoff may be that the negotiation has become
inifinitely tougher if not impossible, but that we will have to see.
TD:
Yes, but that is the fundamental disagreement. OF 4 you on this point
and your opponents.
HK:
I know. But our opponents had the same view when we were doing
the other negotiation and they didn't turn out to be right.
TD:
We would argue that the prolongation of it -- we all know what the arguments
are. I think someone is going to invite you to come up and visit us. I
don't know when you are going back.
HK:
I'm going back next Monday probably.
So it probably won't work.
TD:
I'm sorry about that.
HK:
But with all these complaints, I think your editorial page is always
gentlemanly and always worth reading.
TD:
We try to be - we do not always succeed. We try to be worth reading.
We don't always succeed there.
HK:
I have no basic complaint.
TD:
We try to be honest --
HK:
Good.
TD:
Well we thought of inviting you before Brezhnev and I figured you would be
incredibly busy.
HK:
No that wouldn't have worked. But I m bound to be out here in August
and I'd be delighted to come down.
TD:
Certainly hope we see you.
HK:
Right. Bye.
TD:
Bye.
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TELCON
Bernard Gwertzman/Mr. Kissinger
3:07 p.m.
7/3/73
BG:
I take two days off and go to the beach and come back and am faced
with speculation of about the Chinese.
HK:
You are the one who started it.
BG:
I started it? I didn't know Huang Chen was coming out to San Clemente.
HK:
Oh yeh, I didn't clear that with you.
BG:
I've been charged by my office to write something tomorrow about
what is likely to happen. Can you give me any help.
HK:
No, because it's just a regular discussion. There won't be any
major announcements.
BG:
But there are two lines of speculation it seems to me, that I'm picking
up--one on the after effects of what happened during the Brezhnev summit
in terms of our relations and the other thing is the Cambodian situation.
Mya own inclination would give more emphasis to the Brezhnev end of it
more than Cambodian would that be accurate or not.
HK:
Ah--I just don't want to ge t into it. It's --I don't want to go into what the
subject of the conversation is going to be.
BG:
Let me put it another would I be wildly wrong if I wrote on my
both things would be touched or not.
Just trying to get a sense of how far you go with Huang Chen on this thing--
how do you consider him--has he become something have relations
with Peking reached the point where you would discuss some depth of our
particular--
HK:
He's a member of the central committee.
BG:
But on the two suxobjecks subjects I mentioned- I mean that they could be
subjects I should say that would come up that could be discussed with him!
HK:
That's not impossible he is one of their senior diplomats.
BG:
I gather you are giving him a dinner on Friday night.
HK:
That's right.
BG:
And no likelihood of an announcement on a possible visit of you coming out
of the talks.
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HK:
I don't think so. No.
BG:
Because it has been pointed out to me by several people who are rather
antagonistic to what I have been writing in the bureaucracy that Dick
Solomon has gone off two weeks to Peking and that if you were preparing
to go to Peking, he wouldn't be out with these Congressmen.
HK
Who put that out Dick Solomon
BG:
(laughs)
HK:
(Laughs)
BG:
One of his press agents.
HK:
Because it is true, I never make a move without my staff. Right.
I never move without my staff knowing it.
BG:
Where do we would you stand on the possibile visit the same way we
stood when we talked on the phone
HK:
Yeh, all I said then and --is that there are no fixed plans now and then
when we have them we'll announce them.
BG:
Yeh is it when or if?
HK:
When and if-but
BG:
(laughs) I feel like I'm doing a crossword puzzle. And what ab out the
other possibility of your seeing Sihounok in Peking.
HK:
Let me announce a trip first and then you can start speculating on that.
BG:
When are we likely to have an announcement if one is coming.
HK:
Friday night?
BG:
Friday night?
HK:
No, no. I really don't expect one in the immediate future.
BG:
Two weeks?
HK:
I just don't know.
BG:
What was your impression of Sihounok's interview in the NY TImes on Sun.
HK:
We went through all of this previously when we negotiated, you know
this endless speculation about every word that is being said and I just don't
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to comment on it.
BG:
What I was struck by was the little passge about
wispering
in his ear.
HK:
Yeh I saw it.
BG:
The other thing is the great emphasis on his - - on the fact that they are
not actually involved in the negotiations my impression was total
emphasis on --no one has talked to us but the French, Russians and
Americans, Hanoi andPeking are all talking among themselves- if
that a fair impression.
HK:
That's the impression he would leave, yeh. Yeh.
BG:
Have you heard anything more about P Neuf (Sp?) - -the possibility
of his going. or is that still wrong?
HK:
I think it is wrong. I haven't heard it anyway.
BG:
So there has been--
HK:
There isn't any massive change.
No significant change. Okay, George--
BG:
And the bombing is not tied to the political situation I mean to the
mengitain negotiating situation?
HK:
Of course it is.
BG:
I mean is this a repeat ofthe Dec. bombing over NVN
HK:
Not to that extent.
BG:
Just in terms of showing hard determination.
HK:
In terms of what is thought to be necessary.
As long as we have the authority.
BG:
Good thank you.
HK
Bye.
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TELCON
Mr. George Sherman/Mr. Kissinger
3:15 p.m. 7/3/73
HK:
George, this was for your guidance.
GS:
Before you opened your mouth I was going to say, no I'm not going
to quote you.
HK:
Yeh, but also - --not indirectly. Neither.
GS:
Okay, you know it is basically a question of style, as far as I'm
concerned-- can I use inform ed sources, I mean since I'm in Washington
anyway. I mean I have to have some sort of formulation rather than just
saying--we're not allowed to say I believe type thing--
HK:
Okay. Fine.
GS:
Thank you.
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/Bernard Gwertzman
3:18 p.m. 7/3/73
HK:
Bernie, I just wanted to make sure that what we disucssed wouldn't
be quoted.
BG:
Here is what I wrote, I said a high- White House official
HK:
With a German accent
BG:
(laughs) I say no firm plans for Mr. Kissinger to visit Peking has been
made although the possibility of such a trip is under study.
Two or three paragraph story. It follows this Peking story we have.
HK:
Why don't you just say informed sources.
BG:
I can say an Administration official all right?
HK:
Yeh, why don't you say this, because if you say a high White H use
source-there are only two possibilities he's either an imposter
or me.
BG:
All right. One other think just to clear my own mind, when --a
had you offered the Senate a unilateral ceasefire in Cambodia that they
turned down, I haven't-- I didn't understand what you meant by that.
H:
Yeh, I told them we were willing to do this.
BG:
In mid-Sept.
HK:
Around, yeh.
BG:
They didn't like the date or the secret.
HK:
They didn't like the secret aspect of it.
BG:
Yeh, yeh.
HK
But this you can't ascribe to anybody.
BG:
I understand. I had known that when you talked to the Foreign Relations
Committee you talked about trying to wind it up in Sept, but didn't know
you were that specific about it.
Hope they didn't screw you on this, although I don't know in the past you
always said with a deadline the other side would just sit and wait until
the day after the deadline came.
HK:
That is a distinct possibility.
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BG:
You fairly think the pressure on detente and all would be so heavy on their
shoulders that they would have to make some gestures here.
HK:
I had no doubt whatever i n my mind that if we had been able to play out
the string, that it would have worked. Its you know I'm speaking personally
and not for any attribution, but it is one of the most counterproductive
things I've every seen. Senseleee doesn't achieve anything.
You ask yourself what can it possible achieve.
BG:
Yeh. I knew it was in the cards there because of them-
HK:
But that doesn't make it right.
BG:
Look at Bill Sullivan. They still wont' confirm him.
HK:
That's another outrage.
BG:
Yeh. Want to call up again next week. A certain passion takes over up
there.
HK:
Yeh. Okay.
BG:
Fine.
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/Amb. Dinitz
July 4, 1973 10:30 a. m.
K:
Hello, Mr. Ambassador
A:
Dr. Kissinger good morning to you and a happy holiday to you.
Sorry to disturb you on the holiday.
K:
That is all right.
A:
I got the reaction from our Prime Minister to our conversation
yesterday on the one point that was urgent.
K:
Right.
A:
I am giving to you her words in reaction to the new initiative
is totally and definitely negative. The Prime Minister urges
you to do everything in your power to nip it in the bud.
K:
Right.
A:
The Prime Minister's decision is based on a whole set of government
of Israel decisions and arguments some of which I refer to in our
last talk and other are too well known to be repeated.
K:
And can I repeat that to the President as--
A:
She knows that this reaction is to you for the President.
K:
Right, so this would then be her official position also if the initiative
emerges.
A:
If the thing emerges which we also want
K:
No, no, I understand. I understand that what you are telling me is
that this initiative in your judgment should not emerge, but that if
it does emerge against your judgment, you would then take the same
attitude officially as you are now doing in your private communication.
A:
Absolutel y. I made it clear in my communication yesterday that this
attitude should be consistent with the attitude that we take should this
thing surface in the State Department initiative.
K:
Right. Now you should know it is not exactly relevant that in official
channels, our people have had--are now pressing from some Arab
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countries for in effect for 67 borders.
A:
I'm sorry--you mean American
K:
Americans.
A:
Are pressing for 67 borders--
K:
I mean our diplomatic representatives.
A:
I see. I see.
K:
In this general context.
A:
In the context with the Department.
K:
And with us
A:
and with Arabs.
K:
No, no, nothing is authorized with Arabs.
A:
I see.
You mean internally.
K:
Yes.
A:
I see. May I comment on two other items that appeared in the
rime Minister's communication. She also points out that if you
P are going to reply to this gentlemen that we talked about when
just the two of us on anything of substance--
K:
No, no, if I reply it will be to propose another meeting without
substance.
A:
Fine, because if you are reply in substance he would appreciate
the chance to give her remarks.
K:
I don't think anything substantive is needed from me right now
A:
Right, right. That was my question but I just wanted to be sure-
K:
Youcantell her what I would do if I do it and I won't do it until next
week is to say that in light of the circumstances maybe we should meet
to review the situation. And that will lead to a 4-6 week bickering,
A:
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A:
I understand. That is the way I understood it.
K:
No that you can tell her there will be no substantive move nor will
there be anything along the lines of what you have seen yesterday
and commented on.
A:
I understand.
K:
In that channel.
A:
Yes, now I m coming to this point. The Prime Minister said that
she is not commenting now on the other items about publication
because she understands that there is no urgency to it. And
that
K:
That's right.
A:
And that probably remarks would be forthcoming sometime in the
future and we willhave plenty of time to discuss it.
K:
That is correct, but there is no active status now.
A:
That last point, Dr. Kissinger, refers to our talking on Russian
Jewry. I had a talk today with Jeb Stein (sp), I convinced him that
there is no need of having the meeting down there were you are
K:
Ah excellent.
A:
And he has agreed to it and
is leaving the country I think
unti the 17th. Hewould appreciate it very much if the meeting would
take place some time after the 17th. If you --at your convenience
K:
No, that is excellent.
A:
Secondly, I told him with regard to the other meeting that he was
planning for the 20th, with that guy that you talked to--
K:
Yeh, I understand
A:
I told him that my advice to him is that they should call him and
tell him that while he agreed to meet with him in principle, it is
only logical that such a meeting would take place he hears from his
own government, what has happened in the summit.
K:
Excellent.
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A:
And thereforesuch a meeting would take place beoore the 20th,
they could keep the date, but if he would have to postpone the
meeting -- but if he would not hear by that time from his own
government, he would have to postpone the meeting to a later
date.
HK:
Good. But he will does he know that I'm seeing that man?
A:
No, no, no, no, no.
not
K:
Because he should/refer to that.
A:
No, no, no, no, I am no divulging any information which has
K:
Good, It is a good strategy because it will force them now to get
me an answer by next Tuesday-
A:
That is exactly what I had in mind.
K:
And I will get in touch with you then after I have talked.
A:
Fine, fine. now you recall, Dr. Kissinger that I'll be away
the 12th (?) BUT my embassy will be able to reach me and the
Minister will be able to reach at any point.
K:
Right, as I said I don't expect==we won't be back until the morning
of the 10th, and I don't think that matters will move with that much
speed.
A:
I hope not.
K:
I don't see what could be happening, but I have no indication that
we'll be getting any overtures.
A:
I just wanted for you to know my movements so in case something
develops I can be 2 hrs anyhow by plane, so there is no problem.
K:
All right. I will keep you informed on the various matters so that
you will know.
A:
I appreciate it very much and I thank you for the long talk --
K:
I thought it was useful.
A:
Right. Bye.
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TELCON
Mr. Kissinger/Amb. Dinitz
July 4, 1973 10:45 a. m.
D:
There was one item that I forget. If you recall yesterday when we
discussed
, I mentioned that it was said in the UN
in a speech of Scali, I now found the quote -- it is from June 14,
'73, in which Scali says the resolution to
neither endorses
nor precludes, let me repeat he aays, neither endorses nor precludes,
the arms
which exist between Israel, Jordan Egypt and
Syria as the final, secure and recognized boundaries.
K:
Right, That is essentially the same thing.
D
So I thought you should have this piece of information because some of
my friends try to sell old merchandize in new packages.
K:
Yeh.
D:
So I think you wanted to have this information.
K:
I appreciate it.
D:
All right and excuse me for bothering you again.
K:
Not at all, have a good trip.
D:
Thank you very much.
K:
Bye.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Ron Zieger/Kissinger
July 4, 1973
Z:
Adviser Kissinger will fly to Peking in August according to sources
at the Western White House which confirmed it Tuesday night.
K:
That's what I was going to blow my stack about.
Z:
It was not me. I mean I just wondered where that's being confirmed
from.
K:
Who could it have been? I thought it was you.
Z:
No, sir.
K:
I didn't talk to anybody yesterday from the press.
Z:
Then AP just comes out on thewwire and I haven't talked to AP at all.
It says "The California White House announces that Henry Kissinger
will go to Peking in about one month to meet with Chou En-lai.' 11
K:
Now who could they be talking to ?
Z:
I don't know unless they're picking it out of your briefing and my
briefing which you know left some feeling that you would, and picking
it out of - you know drawing those assumptions on the basis of the
AFP report which is very flat, our of China.
K:
Well, I have heard now that in China their Vice Foreign Minister has
been putting it out.
Z:
See that's what they're going on. I mean the AFP
K:
Yeh, but how can they say sources at the White House. What sources
exist?
Z:
I don't know.
K:
I have not talked to any newsman.
Z:
The point - I haven't in any degree either. The other day I left it
pretty loose in the briefing, you know.
K:
Yeh.
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2
Z:
Well, I think the way to handle this is just say
K:
We have nothing more to say.
Z:
Nothingofficial on it. And on a background basis, Henry
K:
I think we should confirm it next week. Don't you think?
Z:
Well, I think on a background basis, we can indicate that
K:
But you cannot indicate that I'm talking to Sihanouk because
Z:
No, absolutely not. I'm totally not.
K:
Because we have made some prior conditions.
Z:
Yeh. And these stories don't suggest Sihanouk I don't think, do they?
K:
Well one of them I saw suggests Sihanouk.
Z:
That was AFP, out of China.
K:
Yeh. Well, I told Laird. Laird is the guy who did it. That's it because
I told Laird.
Z:
Could be.
K:
It has to be Laird.
(End of this section)
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TELCON (San Clemente)
President/Kissinger
July 4, 1973 - 11:00 a. m.
K:
Hello.
P:
Henry.
K:
Mr. President.
P:
I want you to take the Fourth off now so
I just looked over the
news thing, nothing new here. It's relatively quiet. The Latin
Americans are having there usual - you know I think that Chilean
guy may have some problems.
K:
Oh, he has massive problems.
He has definitely massive problems.
P:
If only the Army could get a few people behind them.
K:
And that coup last week - we had nothing to do with it but still it came
off apparently prematurely.
P:
That's right and the fact that he just set up a Cabinet without any
military in it is, I think, very significant.
K:
It's very significant.
P:
Very significant because those military guys are very proud down
there and they just may - right?
K:
Yes, I think he's definitely in difficulties.
P:
Well, we won't have to send the ITT down to help, will we?
K:
(Laughs) That's another one of these absurdities. Because whenever
the ITT came to us we turned them off. I mean we never did anything
for them.
P:
I never even knew they came.
K:
They came once because Flanigan had set it up. You didn't know it.
I didn't tell you because it required no action and I listened to them
and said "Thank you very much" and that was that.
P:
Frankly you know we left it to Helms and he and the Ambassador and
so forth, they screwed it up.
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E.O. 13526, Section 3.5
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DECLASSIFIED
2
K:
Exactly. It's the Ambassador who screwed it up.
P:
You remember.
K:
OH yes, you remember, if we had in '64 they put $2 million behind
Fray. In that election they had altogeher $400 thousand which they
split evenly among the opposing parties.
P:
That's a disaster.
K:
So it didn't do any good. We might as well given nothing.
P:
Right. Did you enjoy your visit to LA last night?
K:
No, I went up, I saw the opening of Gigi. The music is very nice but
the play isn't nearly as good as the movie was.
P:
Well, of course, the movie was one of the great movies.
K:
Exactly and so it suffers by comparison. Now the Chinese are leaking
out that I'm coming and that I'm going to be discussing the Cambodian
thing from which I conclude that they must have a certain amount of
confidence that it's going to work because they wouldn't want to get
their prestige
P:
Sure they're leaking it out rather than somebody like Mansfield.
K:
No, it's coming out of Peking and it says highly qualified diplomatic
sources. And Bruce sent me a cable yesterday saying that Chou Kuan Hua
you remember that fellow - has been saying it all over town.
P:
Good. Good. Well, that's fine. They'll probably give those Senators
and Congressmen an earful when they're there. You know I hate to
send those babes in the woods over there, don't you?
K:
Yeh, but the Chinese are not eager to embarrass us right now.
P:
No, no, I know that but I'm just afraid they'll embarrass the Chinese.
K:
This is a pretty good group that's going.
P:
It's a good group, a good group, but I mean minor leaguers.
K:
Oh no, they're not in the league with the Chinese.
P:
Yeh, they just don't know their
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3
K:
Mansfield is in Paris and he's been asking for briefings which are
designed to illicit that we don't need so many forces over there.
P:
In Europe?
K:
Yeh. That's going to be his next thing.
P:
We can hang tough on the MBFR.
K:
Oh yeh, absolutely.
P:
We'll have to beat him.
K:
Absolutely. I think once we can get back to fighting substantive issues
we'll gain the upper hand.
P:
That's right. That's right. Well, we'd better. We've got the month
of July and thank God the month of August is going to be relatively
quiet. You'll be gone.
K:
I'll be gone just a week at most.
P:
But the Congress'll be gone.
K:
Right.
P:
We can then do some things on our own.
K:
Exactly.
P:
Approximately when do you figure the European thing starts to come
off. When do we have to put for sake of planning?
K:
I would think for the end of October.
P:
End of October. That's plenty soon enough. We've got a lot of work
to do.
K:
Yeh, exactly. There's a helluva lot of work to do.
if
P:
Incidentally,/the Latin thing comes up we're just going to have to
push that until early 1974. I just can't
K:
Well, Mr. President, I have yet to see a mission to Latin America
that didn't cause more trouble than it was worth.
P:
That's right.
(NLN 04-01/7:3]
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TELCON
Amb. Cromer/Mr. Kissinger
7/5/73 9:15 a. m.
C:
Oh Henry, how are you?
K:
okay, how are you.
C:
Not too bad. Look I'm calling to say to you that I have heard
from Burt Trend
K:
Oh good.
C:
And it is rather difficult for him to get over next week.
K:
It is?
C:
But I'm going back to Xxxxx London on Wednesday night myself
--is there a chance that I could visit you here in Washington before
I go back, to tell him about whatever it is that you have.
K:
Yeh. Certainly.
C:
Your coming back--
K:
Does it mean that it is difficult for him to come either next week or
the week after?
C:
Well, I didn't put to him the week after, but the thing is I'll being
seei ng him on Thursday, so that if you have anything that would be
useful for me to tell him
K:
Well we would like some clear understanding of what you propose to
do about the Year of Europe,
C:
Yes sure. They aren't quite ready on that because they have to do
so work on it. They are working on the paper that you gave me,
but they wouldn't be ready by next week to discuss it substantively.
K:
Right, well my concern is that if we cannot--if the French insist
onbilateral talks then the result is they only ones who talk bilaterally
are the French and the others shy away for whatever reasons.
C:
Oh, no, we are not shying away - -it is just the question of time
K:
Because we then just drop the whole project--
C
No, no, there is no question about it at all, it is merely that they
dont' think that between now and next week they will have been able
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Page 2
to give it sufficient depth of thought. But it is no question of shying
away from it in the slightest.
HK:
Hm huh. All right, well certainly I can see you next week, but if I
could get some indication of what you intend to do which is more
important to me
C:
What other paper- (or want it on paper)
K:
Well in general -
C:
In general, okay.
K:
I mean we are well into July-
C:
Are you planning to go to Europe
K:
Well I was playing with the idea - - but I wanted to have an initial round
first.
C:
I see, fine. Let us talk about it more when you get back here. There
is one other thing - on the more sensitive subject we discussed-
K:
- --because the other thing is of course if Burke wants to come the
following week that is fine too.
C:
Let me put that to him. I think it would be easier to put it to him when
you ha nd I have had a word together.
K:
Fine.
on the sensitive thing-
C:
One other thing/ -we would very much like to send a technician
out early next week and wondered whether he might be able to meet
with Duckett (sp?) or General Giller.
K:
Ah Are those the people you have been dealing with before?
C:
Yes, they are, but if it is okay by you, I'll get Charles Powell to
get in touch with Scowcroft on the logistics
K:
All right.
C:
I think it - -apparently there is one technical point which has come up
which is too technical for me to deal with
K:
All right certainly.
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C:
Wehn you get back to Washington, Henry?
K:
I'm getting back Monday evening.
C:
If we could have a meeting say Tuesday--
K:
Certainly
C:
And we'll try that out.
But don't worry that the is any back peddling on this -there is
no intention of that at all.
K:
Well what I would like is some concrete schedule of what we have
in mind--
C:
Okay, we'll see what we can do.
K:
Because we have a decision to make if this thing is going to turn into
endless second rate talks
C:
Oh I don't think it need do that.
K:
Then we will drop it, but then the Europeans have to be prepared to
face the domestic consequences
C:
There is no intentio n of that on our part- it has been dealt with very
seriously at the top level.
K:
So by the end July we cannot project where we are going to be in
October, the whole Presidential trip ought to be considered.
C:
I think there is every intention of getting done well before July
K:
Okay, good.
C:
I so you shouldn't worry about that.
K:
Good then let's talk about it Tuesday.
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TELCON
Edward Teller/Mr. Kissinger
7/5/73 10:00 a. m.
HK:
Hello Edward I'm sorry I couldn't return your call earlier.
ET:
Fine, and one of your people, I forget his name did return it--you
know the main thing I want to talk to you about and your people in
Washington are aware of it, I'm here Kuklex Boulder (?) and one
of the people who is lecturing as I am is Charles Malek (?)--
HK:
Oh yes, and he wants to come to see the President.
ET:
And I told him that he should see you as well and have a good
talk with you if you possibly could do it.
HK:
Right, when is he coming--is it today?
ET:
He will be in Washington all of next week.
HK:
Good.
ET:
And I don't see why I shouldn't tell you--he didn't make a secret
of it what is on his mind and I think earlier I did not to transmit
it the secretary--he says and perhaps it makes no sense that I
tell you ahead of time, that the main question is not between
Israel and Egypt but between Israel and Syria.
HK:
Yeh.
ET:
And the present situation in Lebanon is critical, that they need support
and need it rather urgently and he is planning is in the sense of bring -
ing Israel, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria together, the last point of course
is essential and impossible.
HK:
Yeh.
ETC: Which is not unusualy
mechanics of politics.
And I think that is as far as I can easily transmit in a few words,
but if you know the trend of his thought before he starts, it might
be of some slight help to you.
HK:
Good. And I will be in--I will be seeing him. --you let me know
when you come east. I haven't seen you in too long.
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ET:
We 11 Henry, I very much want to see you, I can tell you now that
I'll be in Washington on the 1, 2 and 3 of August but you will forget
it and I will also make sure that you get a note and if around that
period you have any time at all, I will just of course be available.
HK:
Wonderful. You let me know about a week ahead of time.
ET:
I will let you know. Nice to talk to you.
to
HK:
Nice to talk/you.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Amb. Von Staden/Kissinger
4:06 p.m. - 7/6/73
K:
Hello.
VS:
Good evening, Dr. Kissinger.
Von Staden.
K:
How are you?
VS:
Thank you, I'm fine. Excuse me please for calling you but I just
got the message which I can't
for tomorrow and so
I wanted to give you the essence over the telephone. It is an answer
and it says that your proposals are accepted as to the date and the
place. Does that say anything to you?
K:
From whom?
VS:
From the Head of Government of the
K:
I beg your pardon.
VS:
Well there has been a proposal it seems to be for a meeting with you.
K:
With whom? With me.
VS:
Yeh and this has been accepted.
K:
But who is coming?
Scheel?
VS:
Yeh.
K:
Right.
VS:
The 11th in the evening.
K:
Good, so I'll meet with him on the 12th.
VS:
Yeh.
K:
Good. Excellent.
VS:
That's all.
K:
I'm delighted.
VS:
Well, I'm happy for you then. So maybe the letter itself will be
transmitted tomorrow to the White House.
K:
Fine. Now I understand. Thank you. VS: Have a good time. Bye.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Amb. Khan/Kissinger
4:12 p.m. - 7/6/73
K:
Hello.
AK:
Hello, my friend, how are you, Doctor?
K:
Fine, how are you?
AK:
Very well. Just a few minutes ago I got through to General Scowcroft
and I don't know if he's spoken to you.
K:
No, not yet.
AK:
This little problem since I spoke to you last time and there is the
question of President Bhutto offering return hospitality to President
Nixon. I had explained the position to my government and they were
gently sort of accepting it, but I got some news today from the Iranian
Ambassador, Mr. Zahedi, which has worried me considerably so far
as my President's visit is concerned, Dr. Kissinger. I understand
that President Nixon has been pleased to accept a dinner invitation
from the Shah of Iran during his stay in Washington.
K:
Well, our problem here was that the President had personally agreed
to that when he was in Tehran and that he therefore, felt that he had
to go through with it.
AK:
But you see now my President's position is being made very embarrasing.
Because the Shah's visit takes place two days after President Bhutto
has left. We are in the same region, our relations are very friendly.
K:
Yes, but indeed one reason we are paying such special attention to him
is precisely for reasons concerning you.
AK:
My friend I would appeal to you - you see this would be really misunderstood
in Pakistan, comparisons would be made and it would be said that the
President of Pakistan was not honored by the President's presence at
his dinner whereas the Shah was. Very few people will know the back-
ground but President Bhutto has got his own political opposition in the
country and all manner of meaning will be drawn from it. And I would
appeal to you as a friend because it also puts me in a very embarrassing
position as the Ambassador of Pakistan here. It will be only seen that
whereas Mr. Zahedi was able to persuade that this maybe accepted, I
failed in that. But more than my position which can go to hell really,
is the President's position and I would really appeal to you not to expose
him to this embarrassment.
K:
Let me see what I can do. I'll have to call you back.
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2
AK:
Please. I would really leave this problem with you in the hope that
you will be able to resolve it.
K:
OK.
AK:
Thank you very much.
K:
Good, thank you.
AK:
I am appealing to you as a friend now.
K:
No, I understand.
AK:
Yes.
K:
Bye.
AK:
Thank you very much. Good bye.
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DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON (San Clemente)
Dobrynin/Kissinger
4:36 p.m. - 7/6/73
K:
Hello.
D:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Hello, Anatol, where are you?
D:
I am just leaving for Pioneer Point, Now I am in the Embassy.
K:
You're in the Embassy. I see,
D:
Yeh, well I'm watching you, of course.
K:
Watching me?
D:
Of course. How you behave!
K:
What did I do?
D:
Nothing for the time being, that's why I'm going for vacation on a
Pioneer Point.
K:
Anatol, I just wanted to mention to you about the meeting with the
Chinese Ambassador. It was essentially what we had - what I had
told you it would be, an expression of unhappiness about various
things. I'll discuss it with you on Monday - on Tuesday. And there
will be no startling announcements of any kind.
D:
When you are going?
K:
Oh, sometime in August, but that was always foreseen.
D:
No, no, has a date been set yet?
K:
It isn't definitely fixed yet, but in the first half of August.
D:
I understand.
K:
But again there is nothing very precise on the agenda for that.
D:
I understand.
So you will be on Monday here?
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2
K:
Well, I am coming back Monday night. So we have lunch on Tuesday.
D:
Yes. I will wait until I see you. There is nothing I have to tell now
to - there will be no announcements made during the weekend.
K:
No, no. I just wanted to tell - you can tell Moscow that it was really
very routine.
D:
I understand. Was there any specific message?
K:
Yeh, which I'll discuss with you when I see you. But it was more in
the form of a complaint than in the form of anything very constructive.
D:
It was constructive?
K:
No, more in the form of a complaint than in the form of something
very constructive.
D:
I understand.
K:
He may be going home for a few weeks and this is one reason there
was some urgency to see us, but that last fact you should keep secret.
D:
I understand. OK, Henry. I am waiting to see you when you will be
here on Tuesday and I hope you will stay during July here.
K:
Oh yes. No, I won't leave before the end of July.
D:
All right. Thank you very much for calling.
K:
Right. Bye.
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TELCON (San Clemente)
Secretary Schlesinger/Kissinger
10:30 a. m. - 7/7/73
K:
Hello.
S:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Jim, I just read in the LA Times that we have cancelled SCAD or
that we have reduced it or something.
S:
Well, we might be reducing. What we are doing is combining it
with another cruise missile program, but I told Clements to protect
your position in the SALT program.
K:
I think the Air Force is opposed to any long-range missile because
of the B-1.
S:
They have been in the past.
K:
They are now. We are talking about $7 million out of a $7 billion
Defense budget and I just don't understand. We told Clements not
to do it.
S:
Let me get a briefing arranged that can be given to Scowcroft if you
don't want to get it.
K:
Incidentally I thought your press conference was superb.
S:
Yes, some of my friends are beginning to thing of me as a blood thirsty
hawk.
K:
There is nothing left for any of us except to do the right thing.
S:
We got to get straightened out the central problem of the White House
and get it out in front then right away.
K:
You mean Laird?
S:
No, I mean the President's got to get out in front again.
K:
I couldn't agree more. On substance, not on Watergate.
S:
Let us look at the program and see the way we want to talk about it
and get the public tack on it because I think that's what you're interested
in.
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2
K:
I am concerned about the public tack but I am in general concerned
about what you discussed on Monday. If you are shrinking budgets
you are not
strategically.
S:
We have a cruise missile program and it is a cruise missile program
that should continue to scare the pants off the Soviets. The only point
is someone is using the label scared and saying it doesn't have any effect
anymore.
SCUD
K:
If you can do that you meet my major point.
S:
Yes, I will get someone to pull it (the article) out of the Times and
get it reversed and say that we have a program headed towards a
capability
K:
I think, incidentally Jim, you and I ought to have breakfast or lunch
soon. What do you think?
S:
I think it's a good idea. Now Brent has probably told you we are
pulling a squadron of B-52s out of Guam starting the week of the 13th
and putting together a withdrawal program which would stretch out
over a period of time more or less packaged the way you changed it.
K:
Let me tell you my concern, Jim. I am going to Peking. The only
thing I have got left is an implausible
that we might go to
the Congress and ask for something. What effect could it have if we
dismantle our capabilities while we are threatening that. I wonder
if you could hold off until August 15.
S:
The rest of the 52s?
K:
They don't understand that do they?
S:
I think they do and in any event we can handle that problem. What I
would like to do is
K:
What is a squadron?
S:
15
K:
All right. Then can you not pull any more until August 15.
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3
S:
We will pull them out in a way that it will backstop your trip to
Peking. We want to use the forces to backstop your position.
K:
Are you and Tom working out that little group that we discussed?
S:
I assume Tom is working on it. I'll have to check on that.
K:
You know, that is very important to us.
S:
I'll check on that, Henry.
K:
OK, Jim. Thank you.
S:
Bye.
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TelCon
Mr. Kissinger/Roland Evans
5:25 pm, July 9, 1973
K:
Hello
E:
Let me buy you a decent breakfast tomorrow.
K:
Oh, God, I notice I--
E:
None of those White House mess--
K:
I can't do it.
E:
Why not?
K:
But I notice they put somebody on here.
E:
Why, so you have a date; I just cancelled out on Mel Laird.
K:
Oh, you liar.
E:
No kidding.
K:
You're the only guy who' Laird is the only guy who has a column
that is a press agent.
E:
Can't you do it, really.
K:
Where are you now?
E:
I'm in my office.
K:
Can I call you within the next half hour.
E:
Yeah, absolutely. I've got to leave here at about 6:30 because it's
Kathy's birthday and we are going to go on the town.
K:
I'll call you within the next hour.
E:
And, how are you doing?
K:
I'm doing fine.
E:
When did you get in?
K:
About 10 minutes ago.
E:
Well are you going to try to fix it up for tomorrow.
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2
K:
Yeah, I'll do ;my best.
E:
Okay. If you can Henry. I'll call you before I leave, but I'll be
here until 6: 30.
K:
Good, excellent.
E:
All right sir.
K: Bye.
E: Bye.
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TelCon
Roland Evans/Mr. Kissinger
6:32 pm, July 9, 1973
K:
Hello.
E:
Hi Henry.
K:
I'm afraid I cannot have breakfast with you tomorrow.
E:
Okay, can we make it Tuesday, or Wednesday.
K:
I'll have to check on that, I've been-
E:
How about a drink after work or something.
K:
Can I call you about that?
E:
Oh, sure.
K:
Okay, I'll call you tomorrow morning.
E:
That'd be great. Henry, did you read Hugh Sidey this morning?
K:
Yes.
E:
Did you. What do you think.
K:
Two people should resign.
E:
They won't and it's gonna linger.
K:
If he resigns, we are not going to have a foreign policy for three
and a half years. If Agnew gets defeated no if Agnew wins in '74
we won't have a foreign policy for 3-1/2 years, if he gets defeated
we won't have one for five years. We can't affaord that. If they
don't want him to resign-
E:
I would have put it differently, I would say if he won in '76 we
wouldn't have a foreign policy for 7 years because I don't think
he's competent to conduct a foreign policy.
K:
I believe that too. But I have seen two competent presidents for
foreign policy when they took over.
E:
Kennedy and Nixon.
K:
Kennedy and Nixon. And it takes 20 to 24 months before you are
on top of it no matter how good you are.
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2
E:
You see the trouble is you guys in the White House are beling
logical. I mean the way they are handling this Ziegler thing, Henry,
is handling it logically and it's just criminal what Ziegler's doing
to the White House.
K:
What's Ziegler doing.
E:
Well, he ought to be out of there. Did you read Hugh Sidey today.
K:
Yeah.
E:
Well, that's what I'm saying. That's just rediculous.
K:
I'm not blaming anybody, Rollie, I'm just really I have never been
in a situation where I was you know, weve been in tough situations
but at no crisis in the last 15 years did I think the country was in
danger. But I genuinely now believe that we could suffer
irreparable ddamage.
E:
I agree. And I think he's on this worried about the extent to which
he's apparently on this China/Soviet business.
K:
Oh, no, no.
E:
You don't think so.
K:
No, but that is nonsense.
E:
This is the big club he has politically, it's the only club he's got.
He's got something going with the Chinese and the Russians, and it
puts him in a position of enormous power.
K:
Look, you name one thing that we have done. I can assure that there
is nothing that has been done that hasn't been planned for over a year
long before we ever heard of Watergate as a national issue. What is
happening is that by making it an issue now, and by making it tough
to do anything else, when the Russain saying we could have bombed
Bitenam at the end of April would have been a brilliant move.
E:
Yes. Well-
K:
I'm mean everything is being thrown out of kilter. That will n;ot
happen as long as I am here, there is no move being planned with
the Russians or the Chinese. But on the other hand, W, e've got to
get a bipartisan foreign policy. Every time one makes a move in
foreign policy, the Democrats thinks we are selling out the country
in order to save the President, it's a disaster.
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3
E:
And they are gonna think that. Nothing can change it. There's no
way you can get the Democrats out of that orbit because that's the
logic of events.
K:
And it has lead to the insane situation that by doing the things the
Democrats are screaming for, for years, we are being accused of
doing it for political reasons.
E:
Oh, it's politics. You just have to expect it.
K:
Rollie, I know all of this.
E:
You had all that going the right way until this happened and then
suddenly it becomes very critical.
K:
I know it.
E:
Well, look, let's hope that maybe youcan make breakfast with me
on Wednesday or Thursday or Friday, and if not, maybe we can
work something else out.
K:
Well, we'll definitely meet.
E:
I'll call your secretary--
K:
We'll definitely meet this week.
E:
Yeah, I'll call you in the morning.
K:
Right. Give my best to your wife.
E:
Listen, that was damn nice of you. She was tickled.
K:
I like her.
E:
Okay, I'll call you in the morning.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
TELCON
Secretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger
6:55 p. m., July 9, 1973
K:
Hello
R:
Hello, Henry.
K:
Ken, I just saw a news ticker in which the State Department made two
statements today on Cambodia relating or at least an implication to the
President's conversation with Quong Chen including one, "the US
Government believes that the restoration of Peters is a question to
be resolved through negotiation among the parties themselves".
These are the times when we are trying to get negotiations started.
R:
Henry, this was a news release sent over from your people for us to
release.
K:
It was sent over by our people?
R:
By your people to be released at 11:00 -- or 12:00 o' clock by us, yes.
K:
Okay.
R:
The text came from your people.
K:
Okay. Well, if blood reaches Foggy Bottom, it's my people.
R:
At least I had
[change in tapes]
K:
boy, Stearman. My apologies.
R:
Not at all, Henry.
K:
We don't -- You know, whoever said the White House was in control of
its personnel.
R:
[Laughter] Not like the State Department.
K:
Oh, Jesus. Okay, my apologies.
R:
Henry, we would not have -- At least I was not familiar with anything
that we said.
K:
That's why I was SO amazed.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
Secretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger
2
6:55 p.m., July 9, 1973
R:
Yeah. No, I wouldn't have done it.
K:
Okay.
R:
But this came really as I say from the White House.
K:
Okay.
R:
Good. How are you?
K:
I'm fine.
R:
Okay, Henry. Goodnight.
K:
Bye.
R:
Bye.
Reproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library
DECLASSIFIED
This document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.
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"ocrText": "DOCUMENT WITHDRAWAL RECORD [NIXON PROJECT]\nDOCUMENT\nDOCUMENT\nNUMBER\nTYPE\nSUBJECT/TITLE OR CORRESPONDENTS\nDATE\nRESTRICTION\n1\nTelcon\nHA-K / The President\n1\n3pgs\n7/4/73\nB\nMANDATORY REVIEW REQUEST NUN04-01/7\nDECLASSIFIED\nper RAC review 4/22/09\nFILE GROUP TITLE\nBOX NUMBER\nHAK Telephone Converstions\n20\nFOLDER TITLE\n1973 2-9 June\n10\nRESTRICTION CODES\nA. Release would violate a Federal statute or Agency Policy.\nE. Release would disclose trade secrets or confidential commercial or\nB. National security classified information.\nfinancial information.\nC. Pending or approved claim that release would violate an individual's\nF. Release would disclose investigatory information compiled for law\nrights.\nenforcement purposes.\nD. Release would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of privacy\nG. Withdrawn and return private and personal material.\nor a libel of a living person.\nH. Withdrawn and returned non-historical material.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nNATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION DECLASSIFIED\nNA 14021 (4-85)\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nDave Kraslow/Kissinger\n12:06 p.m. - 7/2/73\nK:\nHello.\nDK:\nSir, would you have any objection to my calling this young lady and\ntelling her of our conversation.\nK:\nNo. But tell her I'm not asking for anything. I just think she should\nhave checked it.\nDK:\nAll right. And tell Dick I will check with him - when you coming back?\nK:\nProbably Sunday.\nDK:\nYou coming Sunday?\nK:\nYeh.\nDK:\nWill the President be coming back as well?\nK:\nI'm pretty sure.\nDK:\nOK. Thank you, Henry.\nK:\nGood. Right.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n12:10 p.m. - 7/2/73\nK:\nHello.\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nAnatol, how are you?\nD:\nThank you very much,\nK:\nAnatol, I'm calling you about the following. In the spirit of the conversation\nbetween Brezhnev and the President, the Chinese have told us they wanted\nto deliver a message to us this week so we have invited them to come out\nhere to deliver it on Friday.\nD:\nI see.\nK:\nWhich is the latest day this week we could do it.\nD:\nI understand. Who it will be?\nK:\nHuang Chen. The head of the Liaison Office.\nD:\nOh yes, I understand. I see.\nK:\nAnd we just - on a confidential basis wanted you to know about this.\nD:\nI think it good gesture.\nK:\nWe will announce it but we wanted you to know that while it will be said\nthat we invited them the context is that they want to deliver something\nand I will discuss it with you next week.\nD:\nWhen it will be announced?\nK:\nLater today.\nD:\nToday. Is it a message from\no\nK:\nThey didn't say. It's a message from their government.\nD:\nOh, I see. You don't know what is the theme of it?\nK:\nNo, but I have a pretty good idea and so do you.\nD:\n(Laughs) OK, Henry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nI don't think it will express approval of what has been done.\nD:\nWell, probably this is the point. Maybe it express approval.\nK:\nI would be astonished.\nD:\nWell, I understand.\nK:\nI will be - when I'm back I will tell you about it.\nD:\nYeh, OK, thank you very much. I will mention it.\nK:\nBut you might mention the context to Brezhnev and to say that this is\nin the spirit of what we discussed.\nD:\nWhat context?\nK:\nThe context is that they asked to deliver a message this week as soon\nas possible.\nD:\nYou mean from the government?\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nBut no context of the letter.\nK:\nNo.\nD:\nI understand. Thank you very much. I will right away\nK:\nBut you see they proposed to deliver the message as early as they could\nthis week and we've given them an appointment for Friday.\nD:\nI see. But it is a message directed to the President.\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nAnd he will be delivered in person.\nK:\nProbably.\nD:\nYeh, I understand. OK, Henry. Thank you very much.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nIrving Lazar/Kissinger\n12:48 p.m. - 7/2/73\nK:\nHello.\nL:\nHello.\nK:\nIrving.\nL:\nYes, how are you sir?\nK:\nOK. I just wanted to ask you one question. Since after these hearings\nare over I'll want to make some decisions.\nL:\nYou want to make a decision?\nK:\nI have to consider my situation. And I wondered from your knowledge\nof the situation, do you think that the sort of thing we were talking about\nis still feasible in the same range?\nL:\nJust a little better, that's all.\nK:\nBetter?\nL:\nYeh, I was conservative from the beginning as I ususally am in order\nnot to be in a position of embarrassment. I can only tell you it's the\nsame if not better - your position is the same if not better than it ever\nwas. No question about it. I have never told you as much as I could\nhave because you didn't want to hear it which is fine. But I can only\ntell you that from my analysis and also from my rather conservative\nand most delicate inquiry in just listening and not talking, it is my\nconviction that everything I told you is absolutely the case and not better.\nK:\nDespite Watergate?\nL:\nOh, Watergate has nothing to do with it. If anything it enhances the\npotential of the enterprise many fold because of reasons I'll discuss\nwith you when I see you.\nK:\nWell, it makes it easier to write because one of the things I always said\nto you was I didn't know how to express my views.\n(Con't.)\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nTELCON\nJuly 2, 1973\nMr. Kissinger - Irving Lazar\n12:48 p.m. cont.\nL: direction question\nI\nwill give you a direct answer and that is this:\nunequivocably the watergate situation makes the enterprise - enhances the\nenterprise for one thing--makes it far more dynamic, not that the other\nwouldn't have been but that as a dimension which is in addition rather than\nin some way a deletion or in any way removes some of the attraction.\nK: I appreciate this.\nL: Not\nwhen I think about you I think about you and in relation to your\nproject and the possibilities and potentialities and where it could be in\nany way diminished and I assure you\nthis is not off the top of my head,\nI've thought about it many times\nI can only tell you that, in the first place,\nif it does anything it enhances the project. And everything I've told you I've\nnever pursued in accordance precisely with your directions to do more than\nlisten and in my listening I've come to the conclusion that it was always coxi-\nconservative and fair and will not be embarrassed when the chips are down.\nWhich means a lot to me.\nK: Well, that I won't hold you to. I just wanted to get a rough estimate.\nL: You haven't got a rough one. You've got a clear cut.\nK: Right. Because some basic decisions of mine will be somewhat.\nL: It is a clearcut response to what you've asked me.\nK: Good, I appreciate it, Irving. It was good to see you yesterday.\nL: I'm delighted always at the joy of seeing you. I'll look forward to seeing\nyou are the Ziffren's and the only reason I never talk to you about anything\nK: No, I don't want you to.\nL: If you don't want me to\nso I don't.\nK: No, no, I don't want you to. And the only reaso n I asked you this was because\nI'll have to do some thinking when these hearings are over.\nL: OK, that's marvelous. Of course, that may be two years.\nK: No, after Ehrlichman, Mitchell and Haldeman have testified the basic facts\nwill be out.\nL: You've Straughn, Mitchell, Haldeman, Ehrlichman.\nand then a recap of\nabout 5 more people\nMoore. You've got about 14 or 15 people as I see it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nK: Yeah, but the key ones you've mentioned and that should be inished by\nmiddle August.\nL: Yeah, about that,, but then they are going to be brought back to rebuttle\nfor rebuttle purposes.\nK: Yeah, but that\nL: I think you are right. I think that by Sept. 1 this thing will have crystallized\ninto what they want to do one way or another.\nK: Exactly.\nL: So I think that will happen. By that time Cox will have made his decision\nas to what he wants to do and whether there are going to be any indictments\nor not. It may well be that there will be less than people think.\nK: I doubt that. I know Cox.\nL: Well, I'm hoping that there are.\nK: I've got to run, Irving.\nL: This had struck the country so much, it's an upheaval. At any rate, I'll\nsee you at the Ziffrens. I give you my direct answer and I still don't do anything\nwhich could possibly cause you any kind of necessity for explanation of any sort.\nK: Exactly.\nL: I know exactly and I subscribe to it. I am most zealous about it.\nK: Good, I appreciate that, Irving.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nLaird/Kissinger\n10:10 a. m. - 7/3/73\nK:\nHello.\nL:\nHi, Henry, how are you?\nK:\nGood.\nL:\nGetting along all right?\nK:\nWell, you know as well as one can get along without you here.\nL:\nOh, I know. Well, I hope you missed me a little bit, Henry.\nK:\nI do miss you.\nL:\nThat was a nice party Friday night. I enjoyed being with you.\nK:\nWell, you know you made quite a hit with my Hollywood friends. I\ncan't let you come out there anymore.\nL:\nI'm sure I did.\nK:\nListen Mel, I got - I'm getting an award tomorrow from something\ncalled the Institute of Public Service which is a new group. They're\nalso giving an award to John Gardner and to Jablonski. It has $5,000\nattached to it which I'm giving to charity. I'm not taking that. Charles\nBartlett is one of the organizers and he wondered - he asked me only\ntoday whether I could designate someone to accept the award for me\nand I was wondering whether you would agree to do that.\nL:\nI'd be delighted to. Where is it Henry?\nK:\nIt's in Washington on the grounds of Mt. Vernon Junior College.\nL:\nWhat time?\nK:\nIn the evening, July 4th.\nL:\nHenry, in the evening of July 4th I'll be speaking at the Congressional\nMedal of Honors Dinner, their annual convention down at Daytona\nBeach. I had that speech for a long time.\nK:\nNo, no. You can't change that and you shouldn't change that.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nL:\nAnd it's all the Congressional Medal of Honor winners from World\nWar II and World War I and from Vietnam and I can't change that.\nIt's the Fourth of July at Daytona Beach and I'm going down there\ntomorrow afternoon.\nK:\nOK. Well, I'm sorry. In fact you were my only choice.\nL:\nI would love to do it Henry, and I'm awfully sorry about that.\nK:\nI wonder whom I could ask who is\nL:\nWhat about Bryce - would you mind Bryce doing it?\nK:\nNo, Bryce - let me think about that. Bryce might be a good man.\nYou know he hasn't been that closely associated with me.\nL:\nWhat about Eliot?\nK:\nEliot could do it; that's a good idea.\nL:\nEliot will be here in town and Eliot was closely associated with you\nin many ways.\nK:\nThat's true. That's a good thought.\nL:\nAnd you know he really has great appreciation for you.\nK:\nThat's a good thought. Which is more than one could have said about\nyou.\nL:\n(Laughs)\nK:\nI wanted to get you on record saying one favorable thing. OK, Mel\nI'm sorry you can't do it.\nL:\nWell, I'm sorry too, and I feel very honored that you'd ask me.\nK:\nWell, you're a good friend and\nL:\nBut I do\nK:\nNo, no, there's no choice about it.\nL:\nThis is something that's been set up for a long time.\nK:\nI don't know why they only asked me today because when I said I wasn't\ngoing to go there I think they got a little sore.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nL:\nWell, I'm awfully sorry about that Henry that I can't do it.\nK:\nWell, I'll either ask Eliot or Bryce Harlow.\nL:\nI was just trying to think of someone that was here and I think that\nthat would - that those are the two I would think of right off the top\nof my head. And Eliot has been closer to you.\nK:\nYeh, Eliot can talk with some conviction about what we've done\ntogether. That's a good idea.\nL:\nYeh, I think he could.\nK:\nThat's a good thought.\nL:\nOK.\nK:\nRight, thank you.\nL:\nBye.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Amb. Dobrynin\n12:00 noon 7/3/73\nHK:\nHello, Anatol, how are you?\nAD:\nThank you very much, how are you?\nHK:\nI'm fine.\nAD:\nI see that you are very busy and I am lazy.\nHK:\nWhere are you?\nAD:\nRight now, I am in the Embassy\nHK:\nI see. well we are settling all problems out here.\nAD:\nIs my impression really it is very busy now. After Brezhnev. (laughs)\nHK:\nNo, not very. I told you about this thing yesterday and I am going to\ntalk to you when I get back.\nAD:\nYeh.\nHK:\nYou know the invitati on is only in the technical sense. But Anatol what\nI wanted to ask you is this, some leaders of the Jewish community wanted\nto come out here to see me, and including one of whom who claims he\ntalked to you at the President's dinner. Stein.\nAD:\nI already invite him--I didn't give answer yet.\nHK:\nNo, no, my problem is I don't .probably I will not let them come out\nhere--I'll see them in Washington. But the thing that puzzles me is we\nhaven't talked to them at all about the results of the summit and you remei\nthat first conversation I had with Brezhnev --\nAD:\nYes.\nHK:\nAnd I have never understood what happened after that.\nAD:\nNeither do I.\nHK:\nAnd you see frankly if there is anything like that that I could tell them\nthen it would be worth seeing them and it would help with the legislation\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nI think it would be better to delay it when you will be back here.\nWell, I'll certainly-- I tell you now I will not see them here, because\nI don't want to create the impression that we are having a special\nmeeting that requires a long trip. But you see there has been no\nofficial WH discussion with them about the summit at all, except that\nJoe Sisco has been running around saying profound things. And he\ndoesn't know what the hell he is talking about. So I'm wondering\nAnatol whether you could find out for me by the time I get back next\nweek whether there is anything at all that I can say along the lines\nBrezhnev said to me that Sunday evening in Camp David.\n):\nOkay, I check with him once more, but now he is in Moscow-- I will\ncheck with him what he really has in mind and I will tell you--and\nfor the same reason he called me and that day I give him two days\nto come with his wife to have lunch--\nK:\nThat's your privilege--you can do with--\nD:\nNo, mo because you mentioned to me--that's why I'm just telling you.\nHK:\nI think it is a good idea as a matter of fact to --it shows a spirit\nof conciliation. So that is not the point. The point is only that he\nis one of those who wants to see me and he wants to know, you know,\nwhat I can tell him. And it would of course--if what Brezhnev said\nthat Sunday night could be repeated in some appropriate form, that\nwould be a very significant statement.\nAD:\nOkay--when will you be back more or less\nHK:\nI'll be back completely on Monday- I'm completely also on Monday.\nNo because you said when will you be back more or less, so I wanted\nto assure you when I'm back it will be com. I'll be completely back\nAD:\nNow I owe you one okay?\nHK:\nThat's right--you owe me a lunch- I better fast for a few days.\nHow about Wednesday? Hello?\nAD:\nJust a minute-\nHK:\nOr Thursday is perhaps even betterfor me.\nAD:\nCouldn't you make on Tuesday, because on Wednesday I have a *uch lunch.\nwith the French Ambassador\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nge 3\n:\nAnd Thursday with the Israeli ambassador--\n:\nWhat about Tuesday\n<:\nAll right- >I'll shift, I have something on Tuesday but I will shift it in\nyour honor.\nD:\n1:15 - all right\nIK:\n1:15 at the Embassy.\nAD:\nAt the embassy.\nHK:\nOkay and and I will - then we can talk about the matter we discussed\nyesterday.\nAD:\nYes. I will try to get the answerbefore that time--\nHK:\nGood excellent.\nAD:\nreceive the telegram that was from our Brezhnev to XNX President\nabout your fourth day --national day\nHK:\nOh, I haven't seen that yet. But I appreciate that message you sent me\nabout this last leg of your trip.\nAD:\nWell I hope you will tell me something too\nHK:\nOh yes. No, no, no you can count on - That's understood. I think though\nthat it is better if I do it personally, don't you\nAD:\nOh there is no hurry--\nHK:\nYou can absolutely count on it and you can tell them in Moscow that I\nwill do that.\nAD:\n--to cement (?) the Xxxack mutual understanding\nHK:\nNo, I think it should be the general practice\nAD:\nAnd you received the\non this one on the last SS-9?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 4\nHK:\nYes, I did. Well our people aren't happy, but I'm going to try to keep\nit--\nAD:\nThis is really--\nHK:\nNo, I thought it was a quick reply.\nAD:\nI received a postscript\nHK:W Well let me see I may ask you let's discuss it on Tuesday. I may\nask you to repeat it you and I may have to discuss to X find some\nformal way of stating the same thing again. Like in the standing\ncommittee,\nAD:\nOkay\nit\nHK:\nAnd then we would accept/there.\nAD:\nOh you would like to have it there.\nHK\nLet me think about--it's a\nAD:\nbecause if you would like the letter to go to check with\nI think it will not understand why he checked with them.\nHK:\nLet me Anatol let me see what our bureaucratic problem is on that.\nAD:\nOkay--\nHK:\nI assume the truth has been told because we would certainly find out\nif it wasn't.\nAD:\nOh I m sure you could find out\nHK:\nI don't see any point--and it sounds plausible to me.\nAD:\nYes, because I could tell you our people--couldn't tell you anything\nHK:\nNo, I don't think the purpose of one of these buildings can remain secret\nfor very long.\nA:)\nBy the way this seems to be Very a reply from Moscow very important\nother-ise-\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 5\nHK:\nNo, no we took it very seriously and it was very much appreciated.\nIt was very much appreciatedAnatol. No I will try to keep it in this\nchannel.\nAD:\nYes, I think this is the way because there could be some additional things.\nHK:\nLet me keep it in this channel for the time being. There\nAD:\nOr it could go to Brezhnev himself. It is no problem.\nHK:\nThere is no sense getting him involved--I'm assuming that buildings\nof this magnitude you can't hide the purpose of for an indifinite period\nof time, so I'm assuming it is the truth.\nAD:\nAnd now, Henry, when my Ministers\na member of the Politburo\nseems to become politiking (?) not only for\nforeign policy but other views.\nHK:\nWell, you told me that earlier and I think that's a very important\nstatement.\nAD:\nIt is important statement.\nHK:\nGood and you will find that in Helsinki that we are moving in a\nconstructive direction.\nAD:\nWe need you on all the points until the 30th of October.\nHK:\nThat's right. Anatol, I'll see you next Tuesday.\nAD:\nNext Tuesday we'll eat here. Thank you very much.\nHK:\nGood.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Len Garment\n12:05 p.m.\n7/3/73\nHK:\nHello.\nLG:\nHenry,\nif that gives you a real problem, let,'s put it off\nHK:\nLen, here is my suggestion, first I had had Dinitz here this morning\nLG:\nOh you did have him there.\nHK:\nI had Dinitz and his view is that it would actually help thim if I didn't\nsee them out here.\nLG:\nAll right. I didn't realize that.\nHK\nWell I didn't realize--I realized he was coming here but when I talked\nto you I didn't know what his view was going to be, that's why I siad\nI'll call you back in two hours. Secondly, I'm going to get an answer\nfrom Dobrynin ah--and on Tuesday--on what exactly Brezhnev meant\nwith his comment and I think for both of these reasons it would be better\nif I didn't see them until I had had a talk with Dobrynin. And I also\nfound out Len that that idiot Stein approaching Brezhnev directly may\nhave queered things. Or Dobrynin directly. That's what\nDinitz thinks. That's neither here nor there. The major point now\nis tell them I will see them anytime next week after Tuesday.\nLG:\nOr the week after that.\nHK:\nOr the week after that is even better for me.\nLG:\nVery good.\nHK:\nHow is everything else going? I get some rumblings out here.\nLG:\nDo you have a good war you can send me off to?\nHK:\nLen, I admire what you are doing, seriously. Thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nRichardson/Kissinger\n12:45 p.m. - 7/3/73\nK:\nHello.\nR:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nEliot, how are you?\nR;\nPretty good, how are you?\nK:\nOK. I was going to ask you for a favor. That always is a prelude\nto asking for immunity.\nR:\nI'd be happy to do anything I can, Henry, you know that.\nK:\nNo, what I wanted is this. I'm getting an award tomorrow for Distinguished\nPublic Service from a - together with John Gardner and I think one other\nperson, but mine is in the public service category and they've just asked\nme about an hour ago - I had told them I wouldn't be able to come - whether\nthere would be somebody that would possibly be willing to accept it on\nmy behalf and I thought given our long association I'd be very honored\nif you'd be willing to do this.\nR:\nWhere is it, Henry?\nK:\nIt's in Washington. Charlie Bartlett is one of the organizers and he\ncould give you the details. It's in the evening tomorrow on the grounds\nof Mt. Vernon Junior College. It's a rather prestigious award. It's\nthe first year they're giving it.\nR:\nAll I would do would be to get up and is there anything you would want\nme to say for you?\nK:\nWhatever you feel appropriate to say.\nR:\nWould you like to have something I could read for you?\nK:\nWell, I might just send a few lines and anything you would like to say\non your behalf, but that's not required. It's just - I wanted somebody\nwho'd work with me and who represents some of the better things in\nour Administration.\nR:\nI'd be glad to do it Henry. I'd be honored.\nK:\nI'd be very pleased and it's not - Charlie C an tell you. I think this is\nthe last award that's going to be given. It's not a very heavy occasion\nso what they had asked me to do is to say something for 5 minutes.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nR:\nYeh, well, if you'd then - I'm sure they'd like to have at least part\nof what I say be in your own words so if you have a chance to do\nsomething and get it to me, I can, depending on its length and so on,\nI can put it into a setting of my own words.\nK:\nThat would be very nice, Eliot and it really would mean somthing\nto me.\nR:\nOK, I would be more than glad to do that.\nK:\nI'll tell Charlie Bartlett to get in touch with you.\nwas to meet\nR:\nAs a matter of fact, ironically I justxxxxxx Charlie at lunch. Some day\nI'll tell you why this has been in many ways the worst day I've ever\nseen. Just awful.\nK:\nWell, I know what you are - you know I hear occasional, I don't know\nwhat happened today, but I hear occasional rumblings and I know what\nyou're up against.\nR:\nSome day I⁸ll tell you. Today the rumblings are worse than any day.\nThe problem is I've been on the phone most - a lot of the morning\nwith Haig on problems arising at that end but there are some others.\nI'll tell you some day.\nK:\nWell, It's one of the most\nR:\nAnyhow I was supposed to have lunch with Charlie today and he spent\nan hour and a half here waiting for me to show up.\nK:\nMay I tell him to get in touch with you?\nR:\nYeh, fine, sure.\nK;\nGood, thank you. And thank you very much and let's you and I have\nlunch when I get back.\nR:\nI would like to very much.\nK:\nOn the NSC part of your responsibilities.\nR:\nGood. OK. I haven't seen you since the Brezhnev production but I\nthought it was great.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 3\nK:\nActually you know if one put it in the setting in which it was designed\nit could have marked a symbolic move that the cold war was ending.\nAnd\nR:\nEven in spite of everything.\nK:\nIn spite of everything it was very successful\nR:\nI thought so too.\nK:\nI'll call as soon as I get back.\nR:\nGood.\nK:\nThank you.\nR:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Bernard Gwertzman\n2:30 p.m. 7/3/73\nBG:\nHow are you Dr. Kissinger.\nHK:\nOkay, how are you\nBG:\nOkay, sorry I'm not out in the sunny West. My wife had a baby you know.\nHK:\nOh congratulations.\nBG:\nRight in the beginning of Brezhnev's trip.\nHK:\nBoy or girl?\nBG:\nBoy. Pretty hectic week though.\nHK:\nI'm delighted\nBG:\nWell, thank you. I'm just calling because we getting deluged now with\nthe typical rollercoaster effect from Peking--there is an AFP story\nand there is a Keoto (sp?) News Agency all saying flatly you're coming\nto Peking and you are going to meet with Sihounok, and\nHK:\nI'm just not going to commet on any of that until\nBG\nUntil - --in other words, it's just where we left you yesterday that it is\na possibility.\nHK:\nThat's right. We do not have a date set or a specific--\nBG:\nThe problem with Sihounok of course is a more -provocative in a sense\nHK:\nYeh\nBG:\nI imagine it would be rather fruitless to talk to him unless you had something\nset up ahead of time.\nHK:\nI'm not prepared to say yet that I am prepared to meet with him\nBG:\nAnd ah - since\nHK:\nSince I'm not sure yet I'm going, since the it is senseless to say\nwhat I'm doing when I get there.\nBG:\nRight so could we just say that it is being considered but nothing is firm\n.would that be best?\nHK:\nThat's right.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nBG:\nNow on Friday when Huang Chen is out there in San Clemente is there\nexpected to be some jaor announcements after that-\nHK:\nCertainly not.\nB:\nRight. He'll be coming back that weekend?\nHK:\nYou know we have somany heads of state coming to the US that even\nif the Chinese were to come we wouldn't consider that a major announce-\nment.\nBG:\nI think it would be.\nHK:\nNo, no, there--I do not anticipate a major announcement and if one\nwere to happen it is really--nothing is going to happen, it's almost\ninconceivable. I mean it's just not that sort of meeting.\nBG:\nRight. Wouldn't be an XXXXX occasion to announce Chou En-lai is\ncoming.\nHK:\nCertainly not.\nB:\nRight, Okay much thanks.\nHK:\nYou know if he were to announce to us that he's arriving, we wouldn't\nreject but, look--don't take that seriously. I do not expect there is\nno plan, there is --there has been no preliminary discussion, and\nnothing is going to come out of this meeting other than the fact of it.\nNothing is going to be announced that I can now foresee.\nBG:\nRight. Okay. I had lunch today here with the Cambodian ambassador-.\nseems like a bright fellow and he of course is rather interested in what\nmight take place as far as these negotiations. All I could tell him was\nto sit tight. Do you expect any kind of conference developing any time soon?\nHK:\nIn Cambodia?\nBG:\nOn the Cambodian question, yeh.\nHK:\nI don't right away.\nBG:\nIs going to take some time. It's a tough one.\nHK:\nThat line is not doing us any good. And you know it.\nI don't see what earthly good it did.\nBG:\nAlthough I guess the mood of the Congress was such that that was the\nbest you could get.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 3\nHK:\nYes, it's hard though to understand why that was now necessary. We\nwere prepared to stop unilaterally say by the middle of Sept if there\nwere no forced deadline.\nBG:\nI see. I didn't know that--that's what you proposed to Congress.\nHK:\nYeh, but there is no sense debating it.\nBG:\nOkay, cheers,\nHK:\nRight thank you.\nBG:\nRight.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Tony Day\n2:45 p.m. 7/3/73\nT\nHK:\nony, how are you?\n&\nTD:\nAll right, Henry.\nHK:\nI want to protest which is one of the most futile exercises about your\nCambodian editorial.\nI understand your point of view and I have never harrassed you on it,\nbut to accuse us of cheating really goes a little far.\nWe stoppped any military activity for three weeks, we got the Cambodians\nto observe the unilateral ceasefire, and it wasn't until the other side,\naided by the NVN started an offensive that we did anything. Now you can\nstill argue that we should be out anyhow, but to say we cheated is just\n--and to quote what we said on Jan 24 without also pointing that the\nCambodians declared a unilateral ceasefire and we stopped all military\nactivities for three weeks is just not fair.\nTD:\nOf course we have been dealing with this sto some time and have pointed\nout that in fact addressed both sides of the argument. the cessation of\none is we argue--is not the grounds for resuming the other.\nHK:\nYou know, I have a different view on that too, but that I'm not debating.\nThat is what the editorial page is for.\nTD:\nHm huh.\nHK:\nTo state points of view and you know, the channel to state different ones\nbut that I have never complained about the substance of an editorial.\nTD:\nYour complaining. you think it is unfair to say that we --\nHK:\nIt's unfair to say we've cheated, to quote something as if it had been\na misrepresentation when we did what I said we would do. and\nwell you know-- I just wanted to make the point.\nTD:\nHm huh / Well consider it made. How are you otherwise.\nHK:\nI'm fine. I you know I respect your editorial page very much.\nTD:\nIf you think we;ve been unfair everybody else tells us when we think\nwe have been unfair and we appreciate it.\nHK:\nYou know I am bound to disagree with your point of view on Cambodia.\nBecause I think the strange thing that is happening now is that people\nare fighting in Cambodia all the arguments that were made in Vietnam\nand they are talking as if we didn't have a Vietnam settlement, and\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nas if this were not --as if without it, we wouldn't have ended it anyway\nthis summer. So the only difference between us and our critics was\nto be given an opportunity to negotiate a conclusion. And one of the\nparadoxical results of this catoff may be that the negotiation has become\ninifinitely tougher if not impossible, but that we will have to see.\nTD:\nYes, but that is the fundamental disagreement. OF 4 you on this point\nand your opponents.\nHK:\nI know. But our opponents had the same view when we were doing\nthe other negotiation and they didn't turn out to be right.\nTD:\nWe would argue that the prolongation of it -- we all know what the arguments\nare. I think someone is going to invite you to come up and visit us. I\ndon't know when you are going back.\nHK:\nI'm going back next Monday probably.\nSo it probably won't work.\nTD:\nI'm sorry about that.\nHK:\nBut with all these complaints, I think your editorial page is always\ngentlemanly and always worth reading.\nTD:\nWe try to be - we do not always succeed. We try to be worth reading.\nWe don't always succeed there.\nHK:\nI have no basic complaint.\nTD:\nWe try to be honest --\nHK:\nGood.\nTD:\nWell we thought of inviting you before Brezhnev and I figured you would be\nincredibly busy.\nHK:\nNo that wouldn't have worked. But I m bound to be out here in August\nand I'd be delighted to come down.\nTD:\nCertainly hope we see you.\nHK:\nRight. Bye.\nTD:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nBernard Gwertzman/Mr. Kissinger\n3:07 p.m.\n7/3/73\nBG:\nI take two days off and go to the beach and come back and am faced\nwith speculation of about the Chinese.\nHK:\nYou are the one who started it.\nBG:\nI started it? I didn't know Huang Chen was coming out to San Clemente.\nHK:\nOh yeh, I didn't clear that with you.\nBG:\nI've been charged by my office to write something tomorrow about\nwhat is likely to happen. Can you give me any help.\nHK:\nNo, because it's just a regular discussion. There won't be any\nmajor announcements.\nBG:\nBut there are two lines of speculation it seems to me, that I'm picking\nup--one on the after effects of what happened during the Brezhnev summit\nin terms of our relations and the other thing is the Cambodian situation.\nMya own inclination would give more emphasis to the Brezhnev end of it\nmore than Cambodian would that be accurate or not.\nHK:\nAh--I just don't want to ge t into it. It's --I don't want to go into what the\nsubject of the conversation is going to be.\nBG:\nLet me put it another would I be wildly wrong if I wrote on my\nboth things would be touched or not.\nJust trying to get a sense of how far you go with Huang Chen on this thing--\nhow do you consider him--has he become something have relations\nwith Peking reached the point where you would discuss some depth of our\nparticular--\nHK:\nHe's a member of the central committee.\nBG:\nBut on the two suxobjecks subjects I mentioned- I mean that they could be\nsubjects I should say that would come up that could be discussed with him!\nHK:\nThat's not impossible he is one of their senior diplomats.\nBG:\nI gather you are giving him a dinner on Friday night.\nHK:\nThat's right.\nBG:\nAnd no likelihood of an announcement on a possible visit of you coming out\nof the talks.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nHK:\nI don't think so. No.\nBG:\nBecause it has been pointed out to me by several people who are rather\nantagonistic to what I have been writing in the bureaucracy that Dick\nSolomon has gone off two weeks to Peking and that if you were preparing\nto go to Peking, he wouldn't be out with these Congressmen.\nHK\nWho put that out Dick Solomon\nBG:\n(laughs)\nHK:\n(Laughs)\nBG:\nOne of his press agents.\nHK:\nBecause it is true, I never make a move without my staff. Right.\nI never move without my staff knowing it.\nBG:\nWhere do we would you stand on the possibile visit the same way we\nstood when we talked on the phone\nHK:\nYeh, all I said then and --is that there are no fixed plans now and then\nwhen we have them we'll announce them.\nBG:\nYeh is it when or if?\nHK:\nWhen and if-but\nBG:\n(laughs) I feel like I'm doing a crossword puzzle. And what ab out the\nother possibility of your seeing Sihounok in Peking.\nHK:\nLet me announce a trip first and then you can start speculating on that.\nBG:\nWhen are we likely to have an announcement if one is coming.\nHK:\nFriday night?\nBG:\nFriday night?\nHK:\nNo, no. I really don't expect one in the immediate future.\nBG:\nTwo weeks?\nHK:\nI just don't know.\nBG:\nWhat was your impression of Sihounok's interview in the NY TImes on Sun.\nHK:\nWe went through all of this previously when we negotiated, you know\nthis endless speculation about every word that is being said and I just don't\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 3\nto comment on it.\nBG:\nWhat I was struck by was the little passge about\nwispering\nin his ear.\nHK:\nYeh I saw it.\nBG:\nThe other thing is the great emphasis on his - - on the fact that they are\nnot actually involved in the negotiations my impression was total\nemphasis on --no one has talked to us but the French, Russians and\nAmericans, Hanoi andPeking are all talking among themselves- if\nthat a fair impression.\nHK:\nThat's the impression he would leave, yeh. Yeh.\nBG:\nHave you heard anything more about P Neuf (Sp?) - -the possibility\nof his going. or is that still wrong?\nHK:\nI think it is wrong. I haven't heard it anyway.\nBG:\nSo there has been--\nHK:\nThere isn't any massive change.\nNo significant change. Okay, George--\nBG:\nAnd the bombing is not tied to the political situation I mean to the\nmengitain negotiating situation?\nHK:\nOf course it is.\nBG:\nI mean is this a repeat ofthe Dec. bombing over NVN\nHK:\nNot to that extent.\nBG:\nJust in terms of showing hard determination.\nHK:\nIn terms of what is thought to be necessary.\nAs long as we have the authority.\nBG:\nGood thank you.\nHK\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. George Sherman/Mr. Kissinger\n3:15 p.m. 7/3/73\nHK:\nGeorge, this was for your guidance.\nGS:\nBefore you opened your mouth I was going to say, no I'm not going\nto quote you.\nHK:\nYeh, but also - --not indirectly. Neither.\nGS:\nOkay, you know it is basically a question of style, as far as I'm\nconcerned-- can I use inform ed sources, I mean since I'm in Washington\nanyway. I mean I have to have some sort of formulation rather than just\nsaying--we're not allowed to say I believe type thing--\nHK:\nOkay. Fine.\nGS:\nThank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Bernard Gwertzman\n3:18 p.m. 7/3/73\nHK:\nBernie, I just wanted to make sure that what we disucssed wouldn't\nbe quoted.\nBG:\nHere is what I wrote, I said a high- White House official\nHK:\nWith a German accent\nBG:\n(laughs) I say no firm plans for Mr. Kissinger to visit Peking has been\nmade although the possibility of such a trip is under study.\nTwo or three paragraph story. It follows this Peking story we have.\nHK:\nWhy don't you just say informed sources.\nBG:\nI can say an Administration official all right?\nHK:\nYeh, why don't you say this, because if you say a high White H use\nsource-there are only two possibilities he's either an imposter\nor me.\nBG:\nAll right. One other think just to clear my own mind, when --a\nhad you offered the Senate a unilateral ceasefire in Cambodia that they\nturned down, I haven't-- I didn't understand what you meant by that.\nH:\nYeh, I told them we were willing to do this.\nBG:\nIn mid-Sept.\nHK:\nAround, yeh.\nBG:\nThey didn't like the date or the secret.\nHK:\nThey didn't like the secret aspect of it.\nBG:\nYeh, yeh.\nHK\nBut this you can't ascribe to anybody.\nBG:\nI understand. I had known that when you talked to the Foreign Relations\nCommittee you talked about trying to wind it up in Sept, but didn't know\nyou were that specific about it.\nHope they didn't screw you on this, although I don't know in the past you\nalways said with a deadline the other side would just sit and wait until\nthe day after the deadline came.\nHK:\nThat is a distinct possibility.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage X 2\nBG:\nYou fairly think the pressure on detente and all would be so heavy on their\nshoulders that they would have to make some gestures here.\nHK:\nI had no doubt whatever i n my mind that if we had been able to play out\nthe string, that it would have worked. Its you know I'm speaking personally\nand not for any attribution, but it is one of the most counterproductive\nthings I've every seen. Senseleee doesn't achieve anything.\nYou ask yourself what can it possible achieve.\nBG:\nYeh. I knew it was in the cards there because of them-\nHK:\nBut that doesn't make it right.\nBG:\nLook at Bill Sullivan. They still wont' confirm him.\nHK:\nThat's another outrage.\nBG:\nYeh. Want to call up again next week. A certain passion takes over up\nthere.\nHK:\nYeh. Okay.\nBG:\nFine.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Amb. Dinitz\nJuly 4, 1973 10:30 a. m.\nK:\nHello, Mr. Ambassador\nA:\nDr. Kissinger good morning to you and a happy holiday to you.\nSorry to disturb you on the holiday.\nK:\nThat is all right.\nA:\nI got the reaction from our Prime Minister to our conversation\nyesterday on the one point that was urgent.\nK:\nRight.\nA:\nI am giving to you her words in reaction to the new initiative\nis totally and definitely negative. The Prime Minister urges\nyou to do everything in your power to nip it in the bud.\nK:\nRight.\nA:\nThe Prime Minister's decision is based on a whole set of government\nof Israel decisions and arguments some of which I refer to in our\nlast talk and other are too well known to be repeated.\nK:\nAnd can I repeat that to the President as--\nA:\nShe knows that this reaction is to you for the President.\nK:\nRight, so this would then be her official position also if the initiative\nemerges.\nA:\nIf the thing emerges which we also want\nK:\nNo, no, I understand. I understand that what you are telling me is\nthat this initiative in your judgment should not emerge, but that if\nit does emerge against your judgment, you would then take the same\nattitude officially as you are now doing in your private communication.\nA:\nAbsolutel y. I made it clear in my communication yesterday that this\nattitude should be consistent with the attitude that we take should this\nthing surface in the State Department initiative.\nK:\nRight. Now you should know it is not exactly relevant that in official\nchannels, our people have had--are now pressing from some Arab\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\ncountries for in effect for 67 borders.\nA:\nI'm sorry--you mean American\nK:\nAmericans.\nA:\nAre pressing for 67 borders--\nK:\nI mean our diplomatic representatives.\nA:\nI see. I see.\nK:\nIn this general context.\nA:\nIn the context with the Department.\nK:\nAnd with us\nA:\nand with Arabs.\nK:\nNo, no, nothing is authorized with Arabs.\nA:\nI see.\nYou mean internally.\nK:\nYes.\nA:\nI see. May I comment on two other items that appeared in the\nrime Minister's communication. She also points out that if you\nP are going to reply to this gentlemen that we talked about when\njust the two of us on anything of substance--\nK:\nNo, no, if I reply it will be to propose another meeting without\nsubstance.\nA:\nFine, because if you are reply in substance he would appreciate\nthe chance to give her remarks.\nK:\nI don't think anything substantive is needed from me right now\nA:\nRight, right. That was my question but I just wanted to be sure-\nK:\nYoucantell her what I would do if I do it and I won't do it until next\nweek is to say that in light of the circumstances maybe we should meet\nto review the situation. And that will lead to a 4-6 week bickering,\nA:\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 3\nA:\nI understand. That is the way I understood it.\nK:\nNo that you can tell her there will be no substantive move nor will\nthere be anything along the lines of what you have seen yesterday\nand commented on.\nA:\nI understand.\nK:\nIn that channel.\nA:\nYes, now I m coming to this point. The Prime Minister said that\nshe is not commenting now on the other items about publication\nbecause she understands that there is no urgency to it. And\nthat\nK:\nThat's right.\nA:\nAnd that probably remarks would be forthcoming sometime in the\nfuture and we willhave plenty of time to discuss it.\nK:\nThat is correct, but there is no active status now.\nA:\nThat last point, Dr. Kissinger, refers to our talking on Russian\nJewry. I had a talk today with Jeb Stein (sp), I convinced him that\nthere is no need of having the meeting down there were you are\nK:\nAh excellent.\nA:\nAnd he has agreed to it and\nis leaving the country I think\nunti the 17th. Hewould appreciate it very much if the meeting would\ntake place some time after the 17th. If you --at your convenience\nK:\nNo, that is excellent.\nA:\nSecondly, I told him with regard to the other meeting that he was\nplanning for the 20th, with that guy that you talked to--\nK:\nYeh, I understand\nA:\nI told him that my advice to him is that they should call him and\ntell him that while he agreed to meet with him in principle, it is\nonly logical that such a meeting would take place he hears from his\nown government, what has happened in the summit.\nK:\nExcellent.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 4\nA:\nAnd thereforesuch a meeting would take place beoore the 20th,\nthey could keep the date, but if he would have to postpone the\nmeeting -- but if he would not hear by that time from his own\ngovernment, he would have to postpone the meeting to a later\ndate.\nHK:\nGood. But he will does he know that I'm seeing that man?\nA:\nNo, no, no, no, no.\nnot\nK:\nBecause he should/refer to that.\nA:\nNo, no, no, no, I am no divulging any information which has\nK:\nGood, It is a good strategy because it will force them now to get\nme an answer by next Tuesday-\nA:\nThat is exactly what I had in mind.\nK:\nAnd I will get in touch with you then after I have talked.\nA:\nFine, fine. now you recall, Dr. Kissinger that I'll be away\nthe 12th (?) BUT my embassy will be able to reach me and the\nMinister will be able to reach at any point.\nK:\nRight, as I said I don't expect==we won't be back until the morning\nof the 10th, and I don't think that matters will move with that much\nspeed.\nA:\nI hope not.\nK:\nI don't see what could be happening, but I have no indication that\nwe'll be getting any overtures.\nA:\nI just wanted for you to know my movements so in case something\ndevelops I can be 2 hrs anyhow by plane, so there is no problem.\nK:\nAll right. I will keep you informed on the various matters so that\nyou will know.\nA:\nI appreciate it very much and I thank you for the long talk --\nK:\nI thought it was useful.\nA:\nRight. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Amb. Dinitz\nJuly 4, 1973 10:45 a. m.\nD:\nThere was one item that I forget. If you recall yesterday when we\ndiscussed\n, I mentioned that it was said in the UN\nin a speech of Scali, I now found the quote -- it is from June 14,\n'73, in which Scali says the resolution to\nneither endorses\nnor precludes, let me repeat he aays, neither endorses nor precludes,\nthe arms\nwhich exist between Israel, Jordan Egypt and\nSyria as the final, secure and recognized boundaries.\nK:\nRight, That is essentially the same thing.\nD\nSo I thought you should have this piece of information because some of\nmy friends try to sell old merchandize in new packages.\nK:\nYeh.\nD:\nSo I think you wanted to have this information.\nK:\nI appreciate it.\nD:\nAll right and excuse me for bothering you again.\nK:\nNot at all, have a good trip.\nD:\nThank you very much.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nRon Zieger/Kissinger\nJuly 4, 1973\nZ:\nAdviser Kissinger will fly to Peking in August according to sources\nat the Western White House which confirmed it Tuesday night.\nK:\nThat's what I was going to blow my stack about.\nZ:\nIt was not me. I mean I just wondered where that's being confirmed\nfrom.\nK:\nWho could it have been? I thought it was you.\nZ:\nNo, sir.\nK:\nI didn't talk to anybody yesterday from the press.\nZ:\nThen AP just comes out on thewwire and I haven't talked to AP at all.\nIt says \"The California White House announces that Henry Kissinger\nwill go to Peking in about one month to meet with Chou En-lai.' 11\nK:\nNow who could they be talking to ?\nZ:\nI don't know unless they're picking it out of your briefing and my\nbriefing which you know left some feeling that you would, and picking\nit out of - you know drawing those assumptions on the basis of the\nAFP report which is very flat, our of China.\nK:\nWell, I have heard now that in China their Vice Foreign Minister has\nbeen putting it out.\nZ:\nSee that's what they're going on. I mean the AFP\nK:\nYeh, but how can they say sources at the White House. What sources\nexist?\nZ:\nI don't know.\nK:\nI have not talked to any newsman.\nZ:\nThe point - I haven't in any degree either. The other day I left it\npretty loose in the briefing, you know.\nK:\nYeh.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nZ:\nWell, I think the way to handle this is just say\nK:\nWe have nothing more to say.\nZ:\nNothingofficial on it. And on a background basis, Henry\nK:\nI think we should confirm it next week. Don't you think?\nZ:\nWell, I think on a background basis, we can indicate that\nK:\nBut you cannot indicate that I'm talking to Sihanouk because\nZ:\nNo, absolutely not. I'm totally not.\nK:\nBecause we have made some prior conditions.\nZ:\nYeh. And these stories don't suggest Sihanouk I don't think, do they?\nK:\nWell one of them I saw suggests Sihanouk.\nZ:\nThat was AFP, out of China.\nK:\nYeh. Well, I told Laird. Laird is the guy who did it. That's it because\nI told Laird.\nZ:\nCould be.\nK:\nIt has to be Laird.\n(End of this section)\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nPresident/Kissinger\nJuly 4, 1973 - 11:00 a. m.\nK:\nHello.\nP:\nHenry.\nK:\nMr. President.\nP:\nI want you to take the Fourth off now so\nI just looked over the\nnews thing, nothing new here. It's relatively quiet. The Latin\nAmericans are having there usual - you know I think that Chilean\nguy may have some problems.\nK:\nOh, he has massive problems.\nHe has definitely massive problems.\nP:\nIf only the Army could get a few people behind them.\nK:\nAnd that coup last week - we had nothing to do with it but still it came\noff apparently prematurely.\nP:\nThat's right and the fact that he just set up a Cabinet without any\nmilitary in it is, I think, very significant.\nK:\nIt's very significant.\nP:\nVery significant because those military guys are very proud down\nthere and they just may - right?\nK:\nYes, I think he's definitely in difficulties.\nP:\nWell, we won't have to send the ITT down to help, will we?\nK:\n(Laughs) That's another one of these absurdities. Because whenever\nthe ITT came to us we turned them off. I mean we never did anything\nfor them.\nP:\nI never even knew they came.\nK:\nThey came once because Flanigan had set it up. You didn't know it.\nI didn't tell you because it required no action and I listened to them\nand said \"Thank you very much\" and that was that.\nP:\nFrankly you know we left it to Helms and he and the Ambassador and\nso forth, they screwed it up.\nDECLASSIFIED\nE.O. 13526, Section 3.5\npeR RAC 4/22/09\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon NAiBrar Date 4/10/19\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and 3 to be declassified.\nDECLASSIFIED\n2\nK:\nExactly. It's the Ambassador who screwed it up.\nP:\nYou remember.\nK:\nOH yes, you remember, if we had in '64 they put $2 million behind\nFray. In that election they had altogeher $400 thousand which they\nsplit evenly among the opposing parties.\nP:\nThat's a disaster.\nK:\nSo it didn't do any good. We might as well given nothing.\nP:\nRight. Did you enjoy your visit to LA last night?\nK:\nNo, I went up, I saw the opening of Gigi. The music is very nice but\nthe play isn't nearly as good as the movie was.\nP:\nWell, of course, the movie was one of the great movies.\nK:\nExactly and so it suffers by comparison. Now the Chinese are leaking\nout that I'm coming and that I'm going to be discussing the Cambodian\nthing from which I conclude that they must have a certain amount of\nconfidence that it's going to work because they wouldn't want to get\ntheir prestige\nP:\nSure they're leaking it out rather than somebody like Mansfield.\nK:\nNo, it's coming out of Peking and it says highly qualified diplomatic\nsources. And Bruce sent me a cable yesterday saying that Chou Kuan Hua\nyou remember that fellow - has been saying it all over town.\nP:\nGood. Good. Well, that's fine. They'll probably give those Senators\nand Congressmen an earful when they're there. You know I hate to\nsend those babes in the woods over there, don't you?\nK:\nYeh, but the Chinese are not eager to embarrass us right now.\nP:\nNo, no, I know that but I'm just afraid they'll embarrass the Chinese.\nK:\nThis is a pretty good group that's going.\nP:\nIt's a good group, a good group, but I mean minor leaguers.\nK:\nOh no, they're not in the league with the Chinese.\nP:\nYeh, they just don't know their\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nK:\nMansfield is in Paris and he's been asking for briefings which are\ndesigned to illicit that we don't need so many forces over there.\nP:\nIn Europe?\nK:\nYeh. That's going to be his next thing.\nP:\nWe can hang tough on the MBFR.\nK:\nOh yeh, absolutely.\nP:\nWe'll have to beat him.\nK:\nAbsolutely. I think once we can get back to fighting substantive issues\nwe'll gain the upper hand.\nP:\nThat's right. That's right. Well, we'd better. We've got the month\nof July and thank God the month of August is going to be relatively\nquiet. You'll be gone.\nK:\nI'll be gone just a week at most.\nP:\nBut the Congress'll be gone.\nK:\nRight.\nP:\nWe can then do some things on our own.\nK:\nExactly.\nP:\nApproximately when do you figure the European thing starts to come\noff. When do we have to put for sake of planning?\nK:\nI would think for the end of October.\nP:\nEnd of October. That's plenty soon enough. We've got a lot of work\nto do.\nK:\nYeh, exactly. There's a helluva lot of work to do.\nif\nP:\nIncidentally,/the Latin thing comes up we're just going to have to\npush that until early 1974. I just can't\nK:\nWell, Mr. President, I have yet to see a mission to Latin America\nthat didn't cause more trouble than it was worth.\nP:\nThat's right.\n(NLN 04-01/7:3]\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Cromer/Mr. Kissinger\n7/5/73 9:15 a. m.\nC:\nOh Henry, how are you?\nK:\nokay, how are you.\nC:\nNot too bad. Look I'm calling to say to you that I have heard\nfrom Burt Trend\nK:\nOh good.\nC:\nAnd it is rather difficult for him to get over next week.\nK:\nIt is?\nC:\nBut I'm going back to Xxxxx London on Wednesday night myself\n--is there a chance that I could visit you here in Washington before\nI go back, to tell him about whatever it is that you have.\nK:\nYeh. Certainly.\nC:\nYour coming back--\nK:\nDoes it mean that it is difficult for him to come either next week or\nthe week after?\nC:\nWell, I didn't put to him the week after, but the thing is I'll being\nseei ng him on Thursday, so that if you have anything that would be\nuseful for me to tell him\nK:\nWell we would like some clear understanding of what you propose to\ndo about the Year of Europe,\nC:\nYes sure. They aren't quite ready on that because they have to do\nso work on it. They are working on the paper that you gave me,\nbut they wouldn't be ready by next week to discuss it substantively.\nK:\nRight, well my concern is that if we cannot--if the French insist\nonbilateral talks then the result is they only ones who talk bilaterally\nare the French and the others shy away for whatever reasons.\nC:\nOh, no, we are not shying away - -it is just the question of time\nK:\nBecause we then just drop the whole project--\nC\nNo, no, there is no question about it at all, it is merely that they\ndont' think that between now and next week they will have been able\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nto give it sufficient depth of thought. But it is no question of shying\naway from it in the slightest.\nHK:\nHm huh. All right, well certainly I can see you next week, but if I\ncould get some indication of what you intend to do which is more\nimportant to me\nC:\nWhat other paper- (or want it on paper)\nK:\nWell in general -\nC:\nIn general, okay.\nK:\nI mean we are well into July-\nC:\nAre you planning to go to Europe\nK:\nWell I was playing with the idea - - but I wanted to have an initial round\nfirst.\nC:\nI see, fine. Let us talk about it more when you get back here. There\nis one other thing - on the more sensitive subject we discussed-\nK:\n- --because the other thing is of course if Burke wants to come the\nfollowing week that is fine too.\nC:\nLet me put that to him. I think it would be easier to put it to him when\nyou ha nd I have had a word together.\nK:\nFine.\non the sensitive thing-\nC:\nOne other thing/ -we would very much like to send a technician\nout early next week and wondered whether he might be able to meet\nwith Duckett (sp?) or General Giller.\nK:\nAh Are those the people you have been dealing with before?\nC:\nYes, they are, but if it is okay by you, I'll get Charles Powell to\nget in touch with Scowcroft on the logistics\nK:\nAll right.\nC:\nI think it - -apparently there is one technical point which has come up\nwhich is too technical for me to deal with\nK:\nAll right certainly.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 3\nC:\nWehn you get back to Washington, Henry?\nK:\nI'm getting back Monday evening.\nC:\nIf we could have a meeting say Tuesday--\nK:\nCertainly\nC:\nAnd we'll try that out.\nBut don't worry that the is any back peddling on this -there is\nno intention of that at all.\nK:\nWell what I would like is some concrete schedule of what we have\nin mind--\nC:\nOkay, we'll see what we can do.\nK:\nBecause we have a decision to make if this thing is going to turn into\nendless second rate talks\nC:\nOh I don't think it need do that.\nK:\nThen we will drop it, but then the Europeans have to be prepared to\nface the domestic consequences\nC:\nThere is no intentio n of that on our part- it has been dealt with very\nseriously at the top level.\nK:\nSo by the end July we cannot project where we are going to be in\nOctober, the whole Presidential trip ought to be considered.\nC:\nI think there is every intention of getting done well before July\nK:\nOkay, good.\nC:\nI so you shouldn't worry about that.\nK:\nGood then let's talk about it Tuesday.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nEdward Teller/Mr. Kissinger\n7/5/73 10:00 a. m.\nHK:\nHello Edward I'm sorry I couldn't return your call earlier.\nET:\nFine, and one of your people, I forget his name did return it--you\nknow the main thing I want to talk to you about and your people in\nWashington are aware of it, I'm here Kuklex Boulder (?) and one\nof the people who is lecturing as I am is Charles Malek (?)--\nHK:\nOh yes, and he wants to come to see the President.\nET:\nAnd I told him that he should see you as well and have a good\ntalk with you if you possibly could do it.\nHK:\nRight, when is he coming--is it today?\nET:\nHe will be in Washington all of next week.\nHK:\nGood.\nET:\nAnd I don't see why I shouldn't tell you--he didn't make a secret\nof it what is on his mind and I think earlier I did not to transmit\nit the secretary--he says and perhaps it makes no sense that I\ntell you ahead of time, that the main question is not between\nIsrael and Egypt but between Israel and Syria.\nHK:\nYeh.\nET:\nAnd the present situation in Lebanon is critical, that they need support\nand need it rather urgently and he is planning is in the sense of bring -\ning Israel, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria together, the last point of course\nis essential and impossible.\nHK:\nYeh.\nETC: Which is not unusualy\nmechanics of politics.\nAnd I think that is as far as I can easily transmit in a few words,\nbut if you know the trend of his thought before he starts, it might\nbe of some slight help to you.\nHK:\nGood. And I will be in--I will be seeing him. --you let me know\nwhen you come east. I haven't seen you in too long.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nET:\nWe 11 Henry, I very much want to see you, I can tell you now that\nI'll be in Washington on the 1, 2 and 3 of August but you will forget\nit and I will also make sure that you get a note and if around that\nperiod you have any time at all, I will just of course be available.\nHK:\nWonderful. You let me know about a week ahead of time.\nET:\nI will let you know. Nice to talk to you.\nto\nHK:\nNice to talk/you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nAmb. Von Staden/Kissinger\n4:06 p.m. - 7/6/73\nK:\nHello.\nVS:\nGood evening, Dr. Kissinger.\nVon Staden.\nK:\nHow are you?\nVS:\nThank you, I'm fine. Excuse me please for calling you but I just\ngot the message which I can't\nfor tomorrow and so\nI wanted to give you the essence over the telephone. It is an answer\nand it says that your proposals are accepted as to the date and the\nplace. Does that say anything to you?\nK:\nFrom whom?\nVS:\nFrom the Head of Government of the\nK:\nI beg your pardon.\nVS:\nWell there has been a proposal it seems to be for a meeting with you.\nK:\nWith whom? With me.\nVS:\nYeh and this has been accepted.\nK:\nBut who is coming?\nScheel?\nVS:\nYeh.\nK:\nRight.\nVS:\nThe 11th in the evening.\nK:\nGood, so I'll meet with him on the 12th.\nVS:\nYeh.\nK:\nGood. Excellent.\nVS:\nThat's all.\nK:\nI'm delighted.\nVS:\nWell, I'm happy for you then. So maybe the letter itself will be\ntransmitted tomorrow to the White House.\nK:\nFine. Now I understand. Thank you. VS: Have a good time. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nAmb. Khan/Kissinger\n4:12 p.m. - 7/6/73\nK:\nHello.\nAK:\nHello, my friend, how are you, Doctor?\nK:\nFine, how are you?\nAK:\nVery well. Just a few minutes ago I got through to General Scowcroft\nand I don't know if he's spoken to you.\nK:\nNo, not yet.\nAK:\nThis little problem since I spoke to you last time and there is the\nquestion of President Bhutto offering return hospitality to President\nNixon. I had explained the position to my government and they were\ngently sort of accepting it, but I got some news today from the Iranian\nAmbassador, Mr. Zahedi, which has worried me considerably so far\nas my President's visit is concerned, Dr. Kissinger. I understand\nthat President Nixon has been pleased to accept a dinner invitation\nfrom the Shah of Iran during his stay in Washington.\nK:\nWell, our problem here was that the President had personally agreed\nto that when he was in Tehran and that he therefore, felt that he had\nto go through with it.\nAK:\nBut you see now my President's position is being made very embarrasing.\nBecause the Shah's visit takes place two days after President Bhutto\nhas left. We are in the same region, our relations are very friendly.\nK:\nYes, but indeed one reason we are paying such special attention to him\nis precisely for reasons concerning you.\nAK:\nMy friend I would appeal to you - you see this would be really misunderstood\nin Pakistan, comparisons would be made and it would be said that the\nPresident of Pakistan was not honored by the President's presence at\nhis dinner whereas the Shah was. Very few people will know the back-\nground but President Bhutto has got his own political opposition in the\ncountry and all manner of meaning will be drawn from it. And I would\nappeal to you as a friend because it also puts me in a very embarrassing\nposition as the Ambassador of Pakistan here. It will be only seen that\nwhereas Mr. Zahedi was able to persuade that this maybe accepted, I\nfailed in that. But more than my position which can go to hell really,\nis the President's position and I would really appeal to you not to expose\nhim to this embarrassment.\nK:\nLet me see what I can do. I'll have to call you back.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nAK:\nPlease. I would really leave this problem with you in the hope that\nyou will be able to resolve it.\nK:\nOK.\nAK:\nThank you very much.\nK:\nGood, thank you.\nAK:\nI am appealing to you as a friend now.\nK:\nNo, I understand.\nAK:\nYes.\nK:\nBye.\nAK:\nThank you very much. Good bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n4:36 p.m. - 7/6/73\nK:\nHello.\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nHello, Anatol, where are you?\nD:\nI am just leaving for Pioneer Point, Now I am in the Embassy.\nK:\nYou're in the Embassy. I see,\nD:\nYeh, well I'm watching you, of course.\nK:\nWatching me?\nD:\nOf course. How you behave!\nK:\nWhat did I do?\nD:\nNothing for the time being, that's why I'm going for vacation on a\nPioneer Point.\nK:\nAnatol, I just wanted to mention to you about the meeting with the\nChinese Ambassador. It was essentially what we had - what I had\ntold you it would be, an expression of unhappiness about various\nthings. I'll discuss it with you on Monday - on Tuesday. And there\nwill be no startling announcements of any kind.\nD:\nWhen you are going?\nK:\nOh, sometime in August, but that was always foreseen.\nD:\nNo, no, has a date been set yet?\nK:\nIt isn't definitely fixed yet, but in the first half of August.\nD:\nI understand.\nK:\nBut again there is nothing very precise on the agenda for that.\nD:\nI understand.\nSo you will be on Monday here?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nWell, I am coming back Monday night. So we have lunch on Tuesday.\nD:\nYes. I will wait until I see you. There is nothing I have to tell now\nto - there will be no announcements made during the weekend.\nK:\nNo, no. I just wanted to tell - you can tell Moscow that it was really\nvery routine.\nD:\nI understand. Was there any specific message?\nK:\nYeh, which I'll discuss with you when I see you. But it was more in\nthe form of a complaint than in the form of anything very constructive.\nD:\nIt was constructive?\nK:\nNo, more in the form of a complaint than in the form of something\nvery constructive.\nD:\nI understand.\nK:\nHe may be going home for a few weeks and this is one reason there\nwas some urgency to see us, but that last fact you should keep secret.\nD:\nI understand. OK, Henry. I am waiting to see you when you will be\nhere on Tuesday and I hope you will stay during July here.\nK:\nOh yes. No, I won't leave before the end of July.\nD:\nAll right. Thank you very much for calling.\nK:\nRight. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON (San Clemente)\nSecretary Schlesinger/Kissinger\n10:30 a. m. - 7/7/73\nK:\nHello.\nS:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nJim, I just read in the LA Times that we have cancelled SCAD or\nthat we have reduced it or something.\nS:\nWell, we might be reducing. What we are doing is combining it\nwith another cruise missile program, but I told Clements to protect\nyour position in the SALT program.\nK:\nI think the Air Force is opposed to any long-range missile because\nof the B-1.\nS:\nThey have been in the past.\nK:\nThey are now. We are talking about $7 million out of a $7 billion\nDefense budget and I just don't understand. We told Clements not\nto do it.\nS:\nLet me get a briefing arranged that can be given to Scowcroft if you\ndon't want to get it.\nK:\nIncidentally I thought your press conference was superb.\nS:\nYes, some of my friends are beginning to thing of me as a blood thirsty\nhawk.\nK:\nThere is nothing left for any of us except to do the right thing.\nS:\nWe got to get straightened out the central problem of the White House\nand get it out in front then right away.\nK:\nYou mean Laird?\nS:\nNo, I mean the President's got to get out in front again.\nK:\nI couldn't agree more. On substance, not on Watergate.\nS:\nLet us look at the program and see the way we want to talk about it\nand get the public tack on it because I think that's what you're interested\nin.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nI am concerned about the public tack but I am in general concerned\nabout what you discussed on Monday. If you are shrinking budgets\nyou are not\nstrategically.\nS:\nWe have a cruise missile program and it is a cruise missile program\nthat should continue to scare the pants off the Soviets. The only point\nis someone is using the label scared and saying it doesn't have any effect\nanymore.\nSCUD\nK:\nIf you can do that you meet my major point.\nS:\nYes, I will get someone to pull it (the article) out of the Times and\nget it reversed and say that we have a program headed towards a\ncapability\nK:\nI think, incidentally Jim, you and I ought to have breakfast or lunch\nsoon. What do you think?\nS:\nI think it's a good idea. Now Brent has probably told you we are\npulling a squadron of B-52s out of Guam starting the week of the 13th\nand putting together a withdrawal program which would stretch out\nover a period of time more or less packaged the way you changed it.\nK:\nLet me tell you my concern, Jim. I am going to Peking. The only\nthing I have got left is an implausible\nthat we might go to\nthe Congress and ask for something. What effect could it have if we\ndismantle our capabilities while we are threatening that. I wonder\nif you could hold off until August 15.\nS:\nThe rest of the 52s?\nK:\nThey don't understand that do they?\nS:\nI think they do and in any event we can handle that problem. What I\nwould like to do is\nK:\nWhat is a squadron?\nS:\n15\nK:\nAll right. Then can you not pull any more until August 15.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nS:\nWe will pull them out in a way that it will backstop your trip to\nPeking. We want to use the forces to backstop your position.\nK:\nAre you and Tom working out that little group that we discussed?\nS:\nI assume Tom is working on it. I'll have to check on that.\nK:\nYou know, that is very important to us.\nS:\nI'll check on that, Henry.\nK:\nOK, Jim. Thank you.\nS:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\nMr. Kissinger/Roland Evans\n5:25 pm, July 9, 1973\nK:\nHello\nE:\nLet me buy you a decent breakfast tomorrow.\nK:\nOh, God, I notice I--\nE:\nNone of those White House mess--\nK:\nI can't do it.\nE:\nWhy not?\nK:\nBut I notice they put somebody on here.\nE:\nWhy, so you have a date; I just cancelled out on Mel Laird.\nK:\nOh, you liar.\nE:\nNo kidding.\nK:\nYou're the only guy who' Laird is the only guy who has a column\nthat is a press agent.\nE:\nCan't you do it, really.\nK:\nWhere are you now?\nE:\nI'm in my office.\nK:\nCan I call you within the next half hour.\nE:\nYeah, absolutely. I've got to leave here at about 6:30 because it's\nKathy's birthday and we are going to go on the town.\nK:\nI'll call you within the next hour.\nE:\nAnd, how are you doing?\nK:\nI'm doing fine.\nE:\nWhen did you get in?\nK:\nAbout 10 minutes ago.\nE:\nWell are you going to try to fix it up for tomorrow.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nYeah, I'll do ;my best.\nE:\nOkay. If you can Henry. I'll call you before I leave, but I'll be\nhere until 6: 30.\nK:\nGood, excellent.\nE:\nAll right sir.\nK: Bye.\nE: Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon\nRoland Evans/Mr. Kissinger\n6:32 pm, July 9, 1973\nK:\nHello.\nE:\nHi Henry.\nK:\nI'm afraid I cannot have breakfast with you tomorrow.\nE:\nOkay, can we make it Tuesday, or Wednesday.\nK:\nI'll have to check on that, I've been-\nE:\nHow about a drink after work or something.\nK:\nCan I call you about that?\nE:\nOh, sure.\nK:\nOkay, I'll call you tomorrow morning.\nE:\nThat'd be great. Henry, did you read Hugh Sidey this morning?\nK:\nYes.\nE:\nDid you. What do you think.\nK:\nTwo people should resign.\nE:\nThey won't and it's gonna linger.\nK:\nIf he resigns, we are not going to have a foreign policy for three\nand a half years. If Agnew gets defeated no if Agnew wins in '74\nwe won't have a foreign policy for 3-1/2 years, if he gets defeated\nwe won't have one for five years. We can't affaord that. If they\ndon't want him to resign-\nE:\nI would have put it differently, I would say if he won in '76 we\nwouldn't have a foreign policy for 7 years because I don't think\nhe's competent to conduct a foreign policy.\nK:\nI believe that too. But I have seen two competent presidents for\nforeign policy when they took over.\nE:\nKennedy and Nixon.\nK:\nKennedy and Nixon. And it takes 20 to 24 months before you are\non top of it no matter how good you are.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nE:\nYou see the trouble is you guys in the White House are beling\nlogical. I mean the way they are handling this Ziegler thing, Henry,\nis handling it logically and it's just criminal what Ziegler's doing\nto the White House.\nK:\nWhat's Ziegler doing.\nE:\nWell, he ought to be out of there. Did you read Hugh Sidey today.\nK:\nYeah.\nE:\nWell, that's what I'm saying. That's just rediculous.\nK:\nI'm not blaming anybody, Rollie, I'm just really I have never been\nin a situation where I was you know, weve been in tough situations\nbut at no crisis in the last 15 years did I think the country was in\ndanger. But I genuinely now believe that we could suffer\nirreparable ddamage.\nE:\nI agree. And I think he's on this worried about the extent to which\nhe's apparently on this China/Soviet business.\nK:\nOh, no, no.\nE:\nYou don't think so.\nK:\nNo, but that is nonsense.\nE:\nThis is the big club he has politically, it's the only club he's got.\nHe's got something going with the Chinese and the Russians, and it\nputs him in a position of enormous power.\nK:\nLook, you name one thing that we have done. I can assure that there\nis nothing that has been done that hasn't been planned for over a year\nlong before we ever heard of Watergate as a national issue. What is\nhappening is that by making it an issue now, and by making it tough\nto do anything else, when the Russain saying we could have bombed\nBitenam at the end of April would have been a brilliant move.\nE:\nYes. Well-\nK:\nI'm mean everything is being thrown out of kilter. That will n;ot\nhappen as long as I am here, there is no move being planned with\nthe Russians or the Chinese. But on the other hand, W, e've got to\nget a bipartisan foreign policy. Every time one makes a move in\nforeign policy, the Democrats thinks we are selling out the country\nin order to save the President, it's a disaster.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nE:\nAnd they are gonna think that. Nothing can change it. There's no\nway you can get the Democrats out of that orbit because that's the\nlogic of events.\nK:\nAnd it has lead to the insane situation that by doing the things the\nDemocrats are screaming for, for years, we are being accused of\ndoing it for political reasons.\nE:\nOh, it's politics. You just have to expect it.\nK:\nRollie, I know all of this.\nE:\nYou had all that going the right way until this happened and then\nsuddenly it becomes very critical.\nK:\nI know it.\nE:\nWell, look, let's hope that maybe youcan make breakfast with me\non Wednesday or Thursday or Friday, and if not, maybe we can\nwork something else out.\nK:\nWell, we'll definitely meet.\nE:\nI'll call your secretary--\nK:\nWe'll definitely meet this week.\nE:\nYeah, I'll call you in the morning.\nK:\nRight. Give my best to your wife.\nE:\nListen, that was damn nice of you. She was tickled.\nK:\nI like her.\nE:\nOkay, I'll call you in the morning.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSecretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger\n6:55 p. m., July 9, 1973\nK:\nHello\nR:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nKen, I just saw a news ticker in which the State Department made two\nstatements today on Cambodia relating or at least an implication to the\nPresident's conversation with Quong Chen including one, \"the US\nGovernment believes that the restoration of Peters is a question to\nbe resolved through negotiation among the parties themselves\".\nThese are the times when we are trying to get negotiations started.\nR:\nHenry, this was a news release sent over from your people for us to\nrelease.\nK:\nIt was sent over by our people?\nR:\nBy your people to be released at 11:00 -- or 12:00 o' clock by us, yes.\nK:\nOkay.\nR:\nThe text came from your people.\nK:\nOkay. Well, if blood reaches Foggy Bottom, it's my people.\nR:\nAt least I had\n[change in tapes]\nK:\nboy, Stearman. My apologies.\nR:\nNot at all, Henry.\nK:\nWe don't -- You know, whoever said the White House was in control of\nits personnel.\nR:\n[Laughter] Not like the State Department.\nK:\nOh, Jesus. Okay, my apologies.\nR:\nHenry, we would not have -- At least I was not familiar with anything\nthat we said.\nK:\nThat's why I was SO amazed.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSecretary Rush/Mr. Kissinger\n2\n6:55 p.m., July 9, 1973\nR:\nYeah. No, I wouldn't have done it.\nK:\nOkay.\nR:\nBut this came really as I say from the White House.\nK:\nOkay.\nR:\nGood. How are you?\nK:\nI'm fine.\nR:\nOkay, Henry. Goodnight.\nK:\nBye.\nR:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified."
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