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    "ocrText": "TELCON - Henry A. Kissinger Robert McNamara\nSeptember 14, 1973\nK: Hello.\nMcN: Hello, Henry.\nK: Bob, I had a note from Moynihan, now he doesn't want to do it.\nMcN: Well he is right here, I told him, he is listening in. I told him that in his\ninterest, your interest, and the country's interest he just had to reconsider\nand he had to do it.\nK: That is what I think. Becuase most of his arguments are rexki ridiculous\nexcept that of his family,\nMcN: Well he said he will call his wife and talk to her.\nK: You know the fact that the president wants him to stay, the President doesn't\nknow what I have in mind.\nMcN: Yeah.\nK: And between him and me we are both going to do things which the President\nwill regret. That is why I want him a back here.\nMcn: Yeah, I very much agree, Henry and I told him that, and I don't want to\nspeak for him. He is listening now and he listens and I think hk he will\nreconsider.\nK: H is going to give me more trouble than all of the other Assistant secretaries\npuť together. [Laughter on both ends] And that is why I want him.\nMCN; I agree Henry.\nK: I need a few men with inspiration and faith.\nMcN; It builds up toward that critical mass. I todtold him it wasn't thatx just\nLatin America it was the whole question of foreign policy State Department\nreally in the sense the government. And you just got to get a critical national\nstate to make this thing move forward.\nK; And also that is xixh right and to show to the Latins that we have a man of\ninspiration and to who show to our people that the dedicated people are\nwilling to make a sacrifices as they did in the expalise early Kennedy period.\nMcN; And that is what I meant by the\nHe contributes far beyond Latin\nAmerica. It is tha latter point that is going to help you get others and help\nthe government get others and attract others.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nHAK - Mcnamara\n-2-\nK:\nI have one of the best Foreign Service officers availabbe in that job now.\nMCN: UMHUM.\nK: He is doing a good job, but he is not doing a great job.\nMCN: Yeah, Well I just strongly agree with you I already told that to Pat. He say\nfor me to tell you that I xxx raise the subject and he doesn't accept.\nK; I know and you check with me first.\nMcN; Well I will keep out of this.\nK: Good. See if Pat wants to come in around 6 or 6:30.\nMcN: Yes, he said he would be in there around six.\nK: Good wonderful, good bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nRowland Evans/Kissinger\n8:30 a.m. - 9/14/73\nK:\nRowland?\nE:\nYou still having breakfast with Mr. Laird?\nK:\nI can't talk to you because your partner is here with me.\nE:\nThat's the funniest. That is the funniest.\nK:\nYou see, the trouble is we are having a feud which we are settling.\nE:\nListen, Henry, seriously\nK:\nWhat's happening now is he's keeping me out of the President's office.\nE:\nCan you come for dinner on Tuesday with Stu and Kay? It's not a\nparty, it's just six of us,\nK:\nI'd love\nno, Tuesday I can't. How about Wednesday?\nE:\nNo, it has to be Tuesday. He's tied up Wednesday.\nK:\nNo, it's the dinner for\nE:\nDo you have to go to that?\nK:\nYes, well as Secretary-designate.\nE:\nWhen do you get out of it? When is it over?\nprobably\nK:\nWell, now I think I'll/have to sit through the entertainment. I used to\nduck out at the entertainment. I think now they watch me. I've got to\nstay there.\nE:\nWell give my best to Mr. Laird.\nK:\nAbout 11:00 I can come if you're still\nE:\nWell, yeah, it's going to be a late dinner.\nWe're not going to eat\nuntil 9:00.\nK:\nO.K. I'll tell you I'll come by about 11:00.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nE:\nCome by about 11:00. And give my best to Mel, will you? Tell him that\nto start returning my calls for a change.\nK:\nWell he's got a man doing that now, hasn't he? You should deal\nwith Gruder.\n(laughter)\nE:\nWe had a great time with you on Saturday night.\nK:\nI enjoyed it. See you Tuesday.\nE:\nRight.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nGeorge Sherman/Kissinger\n9:00 a.m. - 9/14/73\nK:\nHello?\nS:\nDr. Kissinger.\nK:\nGeorge, I'm clearing you for SAT.\nS:\nNow what place are you sending me now?\nK:\nSAT. (laughter) in-land Ireland, in-land country. I don't think\nthe Washington Star has any reporters there. And you can be a\nDeputy Chief of Mission.\nS:\nDid you enjoy the other night?\nK:\nI enjoyed it.\nS:\nReally?\nK:\nYeah.\nS:\nWe're not usually so quarrelsome.\nK:\nWell, I thought the opposition group subsided after a while.\nS:\nYeah. Sometime we'll have to talk about that. I think it was rather\nembarrassing at several points. But that's the press. What I\nwanted to ask you is, where, you know, I have to write one of these\nlong editorial essays that we run every Sunday?\nK:\nYeah.\nS:\nAnd not for this Sunday, but for a week from Sunday, and I would like\nto\nK:\nYou can check the spelling of my name with my office.\nS:\n(laughter) I would like to write it on the next, you know, for where\nwe go from here in foreign policy, taking in, too, your conf rmation,\nand I was wondering whether you might have a half-hour talk with me\nnext week?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK:\nAssuming the confirmation goes through without a hitch, I'll do it.\nS:\nO.K. Say Wednesday or Thursday?\nK:\nYes.\nS:\nAs I recall, your hoping that the confirmation will be Wednesday?\nK:\nWell, I don't know. I think the committee votes on it on Tuesday.\nS:\nThen if it's approved they can probably get it through the Senate on\nWednesday?\nK:\nWell, I don't know what the parlimentary rules are.\nS:\nI've got to write the thing on, say, Thursday and Friday, so it looks\nlike it is going to go through.\nK:\nIf it goes through, say, on Wednesday, It\" 11 do my damndest to see\nyou Thursday or Friday.\nS:\nThursday or Friday. O.K. I'll call - is Peter Burke taking over\nDick Campbell's place?\nK:\nYep.\nS:\nI'll call Peter?\nK:\nRight. Ever since Campbell testified against my nomination today.\nS:\n(laughter) What's he going to do? What African country are you\nsending him to?\nK:\nHe's probably coming to State with me.\nS:\nIs he? Good. Very good.\nK:\nI don't think these picky guys over there can stand the shock of direct\nexposure to me immediately.\nS:\nOh, I see, you're going to use Dick outside your office instead of\nto pave the way?\nK:\nof my first onslaught, so that by the time I get loosened some\nof the fury will have been spent.\nS:\nO.K. I'll talk to you next week.\nK:\nSo long.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nBryce Harlow/Kissinger\n9:46 a.m. - 9/14/73\nK:\nHello.\nH:\nYes, sir.\nK:\nBryce, I asked you about Spong, I haven't asked you about Zarnecki\nof the House Committee, the staff director of the House Committee ?\nH:\nHe's gone there since I left.\nK:\nNo, he's been there forever.\nH:\nWell, I meant as far as any kind of effect over there in the House\nCommittee. I've always worked with Boyd Crawford, you remember\nBoyd?\nK:\nYeh.\nH:\nHe's the Carl Marcy of the House and I did not know who succeeded\nBoyd when he retired. He retired after I left there about two years\nago or so and Zarnecki must have been appointed as his successor.\nI don't know him personally at all. I had a call in right now on this\nBonn matter. I checked with the likeliest fellow who is utterly\nimpossibly.\nK:\nYeh, that's Bill Scott.\nH:\nThat's Bill Scott.\nhere to react to his being considered\nfor a\nconfirmation position. All he has to do is to put in a\nlittle blue card. He said he'd do it.\nK:\nReally?\nH:\nYeh, in other words this man is persona 11y objectionable to me and\nthen confirmation is impossible.\nK:\nFrom your own state?\nH:\nYeh.\nK:\nAre you bothered by the fact that Abrozak and Haskell have said they\noppose me?\nH:\nNo. I think that - you see, he's just like McGovern. I think kind of\nworse.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nThat doesn't prevent unanimous consent? Are they going to block\nunanimous consent?\nH:\nWell, they could do that - I don't know they might do it but mar e\nthan likely they're just going to vote against you.\nK:\nAnd let it come up and vote against me.\nH:\nYeh, because they won't get any money by holding it up.\nK:\nThat doesn't bother me.\nH:\nThey can't hold it up any appreciable time of course, but the time\ndoesn't really matter.\nK:\nExactly.\nH:\nAll right. Scott's going to call me back. I'm just going to ask him\nhow he reacts to these fellows. I would think he'd say that he's\nopposed to them; I would guess that.\nK:\nCould you find out for me?\nH:\nYeh.'\nK:\nBut point out to him that a lot of people have recommended him. You\ncan tell him for what, can't you?\nH:\nYeh, I can go into it. I talked to Scott last night at this reception, he\nwas over there. I'll talk tohim before the morning's over. And if\nhe says no, of course the things done.\n1\nK:\nThat's fine.\nH:\nIf he says I wouldn't mind very much then if the thing has life in it\nand then there's\nto talk to you.\nK:\nBut I'm not set on it.\nH:\nNo, I understand that, but it may be that it's just totally academic which\nI expect it is and we'll just see that. I know Bill Timmons thinks\nhighly of Spong and I know that Scott does from Dave Abshire.\nK:\nThat's what I was told by Lehman.\nH:\nOK, I'll be back to you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Maw/HAK\nSeptember 14, 1973/11:38 a.m.\nK:\nHello.\nM:\nHello Henry, how are you?\nK:\nOK Carl, how are you?\nM:\nFine. I've done some positive thinking as requested.\nK:\nGood.\nM:\nAs a result I'd like to join your team.\nK:\nTerrific. Now let me just make absolutely sure that I can move that\nguy but if I don't move him out of this I'll set you up in some other\ncapacity.\nM:\nWell, I'd like to, if I could, be in the position where I had a chance\nto make an effective contribution and in the legal side I think I'd\nlike to talk with you about the possibility of some restructuring.\nK:\nWell my idea Carl would be that if you come in that you have a\ncarte blanche. My idea is\nI don't just want the existing thing\nas good as possible but I want the whole concept as good as we\ncan make it.\nM:\nWell, I think the present system, whatever you do, is whoever\ndoes it, is somewhat deceptive in that the legal input in the State\nDepartment ought to be at a higher level. It ought to be somehow at\nthe decision making level and not in the implementation level\nwhereas it sort of come to be in the last few years.\nK:\nRight. Well, Carl, if someone of your stature comes in the way to\ndo that is to have you sit in on some of my, on most of my meetings.\nM:\nWell, I think on the organization chart you may want to make some\nchanges. I don't know what's involved in doing that the way they did\nin defense and the way they did in Treasury.\nK:\nNo problem. I think it's no problem.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nM:\nYeah.\nK:\nThat's no problem. I think it's no problem.\nM:\nYeah, but whoever does the job I think.\nK:\nAnd I think also you should think well, I definitely do it, I will just\ntell Ken Rush that that's what I want to do. I would frankly wait\nlike to wait until the committee has voted so that there isn't any\nturning around by any disgruntled element.\nM:\nI think you'll have to wait probably on all your appointments until\nyou've got them all.\nK:\nNo, I'll announce them all together but we've got to do something about\nthat other fellow.\nM:\nWell, of course, I find that, as you know, personally very embarrassing,\nhaving supported him and.\nK:\nYeah, but I came to you and he didn't know and he didn't know anything\nand I don't know him. That's why I want to do it before I come there\nso it can't be a reflection on him and I'll give him an Embassy.\nM:\nWell he might like that you know. He's had. he was in Brussels with\nthe foreign office there for 2 1/2 or 3 years and very much enjoyed\nathat.\nK:\nWell actually most people that don't you know that wanted a useful job\nprefer an Embassy. I myself don't think it's as interesting as being\nin Washington but since he's at retirement age he might actually prefer\nthat.\nM:\nWell, it's conceivable because he does have facility with likely, he has\nlived abroad and he does enjoy it and his wife does especially.\nK:\nWhat do you think abou Sweødon which is going to be opening up soon?\nM:\nWell, he might be frustrated. He doesn't know Swedish, he speaks\nFrench.\nK:\nWell, then maybe.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON $ Marvin Kalb HAK\nSeptember 14, 1973 3:23 p.m.\nHK Hello\nMK Henry\nHK Yes.\nMK Hi, it's Marvin. I know you are very busy and I will be very brief. I just\nwanted personally to apologize for the conduct of one of my colleagues the\nother day. I didn't think that Hensley deserves well and I was very appaled\nabout the whole thing. I just wanted you to know that a lot of us felt the same\nway and I wanted to express that feeling.\nHK ArenIt you nice. But it straightened out.\nMK It straightened out towards the end. But a ctually he was waiting around and\nhe had perhaps an extra drink and he shouldn't have done it and it was unneces-\nsary SH and I think wrong. And I just wanted to tell you that most of us feel\nthat way and that you should know that.\nHK Well that is very nice.\nMK And secondly on CBS business for a minute, we want, as I mentioned to you\nvery much to get you on thxe FACE the NATION And I know that your confirmat\ntion will com e in next week and ax I was wondereing therefore whether you\ncould entertain either the 23rd of the 30th, for an appearance.\nHK Let me get back to you on that next week. Supposing the Committee votes\non Tuesday, I'll give you an answer whenever the day is the Committee votes,\nI'll let you know.\nMK They vote on Tuesday, I talked to Sparkman this mørning.\nHK They are definitely voting on Tuesday?\nNK They are definitely voting on Tuesday, oh you should have been up there today\nto hear all of your all of those freindly people.\nHK Really?\nMK Mama mia.\nHK Was there anyone for me?\nMK Well no, there were ten people against you. Ten people running from the\nLiberty Lobby to a young fascist organization to the Federation of Arab\nAssociations and there is was a good bit of talk. I would say if I had to put it\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMarvin Kalb HAK\n-2-\nin percentage terms about 20% of the talk related to being Jewish. McGovern\ncame out with a statement to former Senator Gruening that he thinks your\npolicy is a disaster but he is going to vote X for your confirmati on because he\nwill at least have an opportunity of talking to you.\nHK Who was that?\nMK McGovern\nHK McGovern, oh\nMK So I figured if McGovern is saying that it is , that he isgoing to vote for you\nAnd then I talked to Sparkmn and Sparkman says that everybody on the Committee\nis pro.\nHK Oh good.\nMK So that XSX it is a very\nHK I would like tx it to be with as much as a self unity as we can muster.\nMK Well I think, that is not X so. I think there will be probably end up being an\nunanimous sed show. I would be surprised if it weren't.\nHK Well, call me Tuesday afternoon. Goood.\nXXXXG\nMK Good, thank you Henry. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nJack McCloy/Mr. Kissinger\n7:00 p. m., September 14, 1973\nM:\nYou've been doing very well. I've been watching your confirmation.\nI must say it was extraordinary.\nK:\nAren't you nice.\nM:\nYou'll be confirmed next week?\nK:\nI hope so unless something new comes up.\nM:\nThe reason I called you, Yemani was up here yesterday and talked to\nsome of the top people up here and he was rather startling in what he\nwas telling them was his intention. This is not from any commercial\npoint of view but Jamison was quite disturbed about the long-range\neffect of it, that is, his idea that they were now in a position to pretty\nmuch dictate the flow of oil and the price of oil. He talked quite\narbitrarily and quite vigorously about his intentions and they --\nJamison thought he might want to talk to you if you're seeing Yemani.\nI'm told you're going to see him next Friday. I don't know whether\nthat's true or not.\nK:\nI have no such plan. Who's Stevenson?\nM:\nAt any rate, he thought maybe -- Yemani is out West now, he's in this\nindustrial conference out in San Francisco. He's coming to Washington\nand the story was he's going to see you next week, sometime.\nK:\nWell, that may be but it's not on the schedule yet.\nM:\nYeah. Okay. But the point they were making was if you are going to\nsee him, it might be a very good thing -- In fact, they are very much\nanxious to have Jamison and one other come in and talk to you and give\nyou a little of the background of the philosophy that he expressed to them\nbefore you see him.\nK:\nAll right. I'd like to get the oil companies together anyway.\nM:\nYeah.\nK:\nI had hoped to be able to do it after I got well established to see whether\nwe couldn't adopt a concerted governmental and oil company policy.\nM:\nYeah. I think that would be good. I think it might be well not to get too\nmany of them together too soon because there are so many diverse\ninterests.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nJack McCloy/Mr. Kissinger\n2\nK:\nNo, I thought I would get 5 or 6 of the major ones.\nM:\nA small group of the top fellows.\nK:\nWell, could you make a suggestion of who they are. Of course, Jamison.\nM:\nJamison would be one. Rawley Warner would be another. Butch\nGrandville of Texaco; he's in there in a big way. And I'd say Standard\nOil of California, Otto Miller.\nK:\n(laughs) You're going to kill me with the Jewish Community but I agree.\nM:\nYou see, I can drop --\nK:\nNo, no, no; I agree. He must be in it. But everyone tells me he's a\nvery bright fellow.\nM:\nOh, yes, he is and a very decent fellow. I didn't think his statement was\nvery bad.\nK:\nI didn't read his statement.\nM:\nvery negative. It was just what everybody needs is peace in this\narea and I'm all in favor of solving that thing as promptly as we possibly\ncan. I think it's in the American interest.\nK:\nThe account I had didn't sound to me unreasonable.\nM:\nIt wasn't unreasonable but it caused a lot of demonstration out there.\nBut then he saw some of the top Jewish people went out to see him and\nI think they got along very well.\nK:\nWell, I think he has to be part of it.\nM:\nSure, I would think so. I'd say Otto Miller. Now the other people would\nbe Dorsey of Gulf.\nK:\nYou might want to come in with them.\nM:\nWell, maybe, maybe. Now when would you want to do it.\nK:\nI would prefer to do it when I am back from the UN.\nM:\nUh-huh. When do you go up there?\nK:\nI'm going there about the 24th.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nJack McCloy/Mr. Kissinger\n3\nM:\nLet me ask you this, as an aside, are you going to Aspen when\nBrandt's out there?\nK:\nWell, I've been playing with the idea.\nM:\nBrandt asked me to come out there and I just heard from Joe Slater\nthat there's a possibility that you might\nK:\nWell, I probably won't have the time. But if I do it, you can ride out\nwith me.\nM:\nWell, he's going to get this award out there and they wanted me to say\nsomething at the time of the ceremony.\nK:\nWell, if I can\nM:\nIf you'll have your secretary let me know if you're going.\nK:\nAbsolutely.\nM:\nOkay. And we might join up.\nK:\nJack, on the off chance that you may know the fellow, do you know a\nDavid Freeman who's worked on the energy problem for the Ford\nFoundation?\nM:\nYes, I do know him but very slightly.\nK:\nIs he a good man?\nM:\nI don't know him well enough to say. I heard his name -- Mac Bundy\ntalked to me about it.\nK:\nI'm seeing Mac on Monday. Let me raise it with him.\nM:\nYou raise it with him and see what he thinks. If you want me to get a\ncheck on him, I can.\nK:\nWell, I'd appreciate it.\nM:\nHis name is Freeman.\nK:\nDavid Freeman.\nM:\nYeah, I'll find out and I'll let you know.\nK:\nMany thanks.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nJack McCloy /Mr. Kissinger\n4\nM:\nNow on this other business, the oil thing, if you': re going to see\nYemani, at least Jamison and one other thought it was extremely\nimportant that you talk to them, either on the phone or see them,\nbefore you saw him.\nK:\nWell, frankly, I'm going to try to avoid seeing Yemani.\nM:\nOkay.\nK:\nBut if I see him, I'll get in touch.\nM:\nGet your secretary to get in touch with me and then I'll --\nK:\nI'll get in touch with you and then you can recommend --\nM:\nEither by a phone call because they seemed to think it was important.\nThey emphasized with me this wasn't in connection with any negotiation\nor commercial aspect. They were thinking about the flow of oil in\nthe future at reasonable prices.\nK:\nI understand.\nM:\nOkay.\nK:\nMany thanks, Jack.\nM:\nAnything else I can do for you?\nK:\nNot immediately. You could think about the names for that Board I\ntalked to you about.\nM:\nOkay, I have been doing that. I'll be in touch with you.\nK:\nTerrific, Jack.\nM:\nOkay, fine.\nwgh\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nBernard Gwertzman/Mr. Kissinger\n7:33 p.m., September 14, 1973\nG:\nOne, I wanted to say how much we appreciated your presence the other\nnight.\nK:\nI actually found it extremely helpful.\nsome of\nG:\nI wanted to apologize if you felt any rudeness from the fellows there.\nK:\nWell, there were some short tempers but I really found it very helpful\nto clarify my thinking about press guys versus foreign service guys.\nAnd it steered me more towards the Foreign Service.\nG:\nWell, that would be useful if that's helpful. Im not sure which will be\nin the end the better. The other thing, I'd like to write an article on\nthis MFN thing which is coming to a peak on Wednesday or so. Is there\nanything you could say on-the-record about how important this is or\nisn't.\nK:\nI think it is a very important aspect of our entire foreign policy. And\nyou can say that on-the-record.\nG:\nHow would our relations with the Russians suffer?\nK:\nWell, all the negotiations we've had with them over the three years has\nhad MFN as an important contribution on our side. And then therefore\ncast out on the validity of the link long-term negotiation.\nG:\nYeah. So if it is turned down here, this would be considered that the\nAdministration can't produce what it promises essentially.\nK:\nThat's right. And it also affects the position of those who negotiated\ntheir end of the deal. When what we are supposed to do doesn't happen.\nG:\nRight. This compromise that's been talked about, is that a viable one?\nK:\nWell, it is a barely tolerable one.\nG:\nI mean, it's not off the ground in the committee but it's\nK:\nI don't know about that.\nG:\nAre you going to testify on Tuesday or just meet with them?\nK:\nWell, I probably won't be confirmed by Tuesday so I'll be meeting\nthem as a Presidential Assistant in a sort of Executive Session way.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nBernard Gwertzman/Mr. Kissinger\n2\nG:\nAnd you'll be stressing this aspect of it?\nK:\nYeah.\nG:\nYou met with Meany today on that same subject?\nK:\nNo.\nG:\nOh, I see. There's a wire story I think we're printing tonight\nspeculating on that.\nK:\nNo. Well, it was mentioned but it was not the basic subject.\nG:\nWas it more general?\nK:\nWell, I felt that as Secretary-designate I should call on him.\nG:\nI see. I must say, the hearing today was the most incredible thing\nI've ever sat through.\nK:\nReally?\nG:\nI won't recommend you watch it on television but why the Committee\nallowed this Nazi in there -- you know, there was a Nazi spokesman.\nK:\nI didn't know that.\nG:\nI don't think they realized his organization. It's called the National\nYouth Alliance. He ends up saying that because you're Jewish, it would\nnot be in the best interests to the majority of White gentile Americans.\nReally incredible.\nK:\n(laughter) I see gentile Americans but white gentile.\nG:\nWell, because he has to separate out the real white men.\nK:\nIsn't that fascinating.\nG:\nThere were 10 different people. You were attacked from 10 different\nviewpoints, including they had a black united front. It was a bizarre\naffair. No one takes it seriously. It shows you the variety of --\nK:\nWell, I tell you, I have received more hate mail as a result of this.\nG:\nYeah, you told me that the other night.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nBernard Gwertzman/Mr. Kissinger\n3\nK:\nIt is totally you are the people who killed our Lord, and how dare you\ntry to govern us.\nG:\nYeah. It's a sobering thing to know the people that are in this country.\nK:\nStrangely enough, I get almost no mail attacking policies. I get almost\nno Vietnam mail.\nG:\nYou got attacked for that expectingly today from Donald Frazier and\nthe American Friends Committee.\nK:\nYeah but that I'd expect and that's fair enough. Did Don Frazier do it too?\nG:\nWith Frazier it was more of a strain, he was speaking for ADA and his\nthrust was that they should delay action until they get 4 commitments\nfrom the Administration, most of which you've already given them anyway.\nThings like you won't resume combat activity without Congressional\napproval.\nK:\nDon Frazier basically is really a friend of mine, individually.\nG:\nHe disassociated himself from some of the other characters up there.\nK:\nI guess he's got to say what the ADA has in mind.\nG:\nSure. The American Friends fellow had that same thing that Fulbright\nhad saying May of 69 you would say if we're not out of Vietnam in\n6 months you can tear down the White House gate or something like that.\nK:\nBaloney, that I never said.\nG:\nLiberties Lobby was in there and they talked about some secret\nmeeting you had in Woodstock, Vermont. I don't know what that was.\nK:\nI'll tell you what it was. Have you ever heard of the Bilderberg\nConference?\nG:\nNo.\nK:\nThe Bilderberg Conference is called annually by Prince Bernhardt (sp?)\nof The Netherlands and it has such wild radicals as Jack McCloy, David\nRockefeller. You know, it is SO establishment that I don't go to it anymore.\nG:\n(laughter)\nK:\nBut I used to attend it. It met in the United States. It meant a lot to them\nfor me to spend a morning with them. I went up a Saturday afternoon and\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nBernard Gwertzman/Mr. Kissinger\n4\nK:\n(cont'd) left on Sunday afternoon.\nG:\nAnd this has now become in the folklore --\nK:\nIn the folklore, it has become an international meeting. It is in effect,\nyou take the top people of the Council on Foreign Relations, take the\nBoard of Director of all of the Councils on Foreign Relations around the\nworld -- so establishment. The head of FIAT is part\nG:\nreactions rather moderate. They just took an isolationist.\nTheir criticism of you is you are too internationalist. It was in a sense\nludicrous. What appalled me was that the only Senators who were there\nwere Sparkman, Aiken and McGovern was in and out. They never\nbothered to say anything because they were in a rush to end this thing.\nK:\nYeah. But Marcy told me ahead of time that this would happen because\nthey wanted it over with.\nG:\nYes, they did. In fact, it was very quick. But I gather you're not going\nto run into any trouble Monday or Tuesday. I don't know what they'll\nask you Monday.\nK:\nWell, Tuesday I won't meet with them.\nG:\nI'll be astonished if there's any hang-up.\nK:\nThat's my impression.\nG:\nRight. Okay.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nProf. George Kennan\n8:55 p. m., September 14, 1973\nHK:\nGeorge, how are you? I'm sorry I couldn't get back to you earlier.\nGK:\nWell, it's very good of you to call me back at all because I know what\nyour life must be like. I just wanted to tell you that I'm back in this\ncountry after 5 months abroad.\nHK:\nWonderful.\nGK:\nI was recently in Leningrad about 2 or 3 weeks ago and had very\ninteresting few days there. What I did want most importantly to say\nto you is that I think you're absolutely right about the dissidence.\nHK:\nAren't you nice.\nGK:\nnot to be carried away with this. This is a hysteria of the western\npress.\nHK:\nIn total hyprocrisy.\nGK:\nNot only that but nothing as yet has actually happened to either\nSofarov (sp?) or to Soldzamechen (sp?).\nHK:\nWell, then you know what would have happened to them under Stalin.\nGK:\nExactly. But you know both of them are also driving it very unwisely\nhard and they have enabled the regime to split the whole Russian\nintellectual and esthetic community so that a lot of the most important\nother Russian intellectuals have turned against them. And I think it\nrather dangerous for us to take up their cause when such people as\nHutchateryon (sp?) and the great composers and others are not going\nalong with them.\nHK:\nAnd when it isn't clear what they can describe exactly what it is that they\nwant.\nGK:\nThat is correct.\nHK:\nEspecially, Zakarov (sp).\nWhat is it that he wants the Soviets to do?\nGK:\nI know and actually many of the issues that they have with them are\nsimply ones that they themselves provoked. So I just wanted you to know\nthat I'm strongly with you. And I don't think in any case that it's right\nfor a great government such as ours to try to adjust its foreign policy\nin order to work internal changes in another country.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nProf. George Kennan\n2\nHK:\nWell, I'm so glad you are of that view.\nGK:\nExactly what you said before the Senate Committee, I said a week ago\nto the Norwegian Ten Club plus some of the diplomats in Scandinavia.\nI said you must realize that this is not the only thing that is at stake\nin our relations with them. We have also the nuclear weaponry and\nthings of that sort and we can't sacrifice the whole relationship for these\npeople. I just wanted you to know you have thisssupport. I am coming\ndown to Washington next Tuesday if you're not testifying that day and\nhad any time to see me, I'd be glad to drop in but I certainly don't want\nto press it because\nHK:\nI'm testifying that day on MFN. Are you staying overnight?\nGK:\nWell, I could. I'm coming down on Tuesday. I have written a letter\ntoday to the New York Times on MFN.\nHK:\nWhy don't we try to have breakfast on Wednesday. Tuesday is going to\nbe very hard for me.\nGK:\nI'll see what I can work out and I'll be in touch with you at the beginning\nof next week.\nHK:\nGood.\nGK:\nHenry, I just can't tell you how pleased I am about what is going on with\nyourself. The funny thing is that three days before this change was\nannounced, I gave an interview to the Scandinavian press and said that\nthe vital thing now is to have in the circumstances to have foreign\npolicy in some way transferred back to the State Department. And also\nexpressed my great confidence in yourself.\nHK:\nWell, I'm going to do my very best and I hope to profit from your advice.\nGK:\nAll I can say is I'll give you any help I can. It's a tremendous job and\nit's also worse going to be back there in the State Department in some\nways than where you've been but in other ways it's better.\nHK:\nWell, I think if I can make the State Department again the sort of place\nit was when you headed the Policy Planning staff or at least those areas\nyou had to do with, then it will be worth while.\nGK:\nWell, if you get a convenient chance, I would be glad to talk with you\nat any time.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nProf. George Kennan\n3\nHK:\nWell, let's try for breakfast on Wednesday.\nGK:\nAll right, I'll see what I can work out.\nHK:\nAnd you will call my office on Monday?\nGK:\nI will do that.\nHK:\nIt will be nice to see you again.\nGK:\nAll right. Thank you very much.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Ingersoll (Japan)/Mr. Kissinger\n9:04 p. m., September 14, 1973\nK:\nBob, I just want you to know I'm thinking of you.\nI:\nYou are (laughs). I thought you had other things on your mind.\nK:\nNo, I've got you on my mind. I'm not pressing you but I just wanted\nyou to know that my views are still what they were.\nI:\nHenry, I had a long talk with George. He is going to talk to you on\nMonday. I would like to come and see you again on Friday or Saturday\nif that's convenient for you.\nK:\nSure.\nI:\nAre you available on Friday or Saturday?\nK:\nFor this purpose, yes.\nI:\nAll right. Well, George will talk to you and then I may talk to you\nagain in the middle of the week and I'll plan to come in Friday or\nSaturday.\nK:\nGeorge is more judicious than I am, just keep that in mind.\nI believe in doing things with enthusiasm.\nI:\nWell, I agree and I am enthusiastic with reservations and I would like\nto talk those over with you.\nK:\nNo, you come and talk to me. I think it's important.\nI:\nFine, I'll be in next weekend.\nK:\nTerrific. See you then.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nFred Brisson/Mr. Kissinger\n10:00 a.m.\n9/15/73\nB:\nWell, we're so proud of you Henry\nK:\nFred, aren't you nice.\nB:\nI think the way you handled yourself during these hearings - - with all\nthese\nold bastards, really it is incredible you know, we watched\nit every night - -it was on channel 22 in California and Henry--you are\ngoing to be the greatest Secretary of State that this nation has ever known.\nAll I call tell you is you got the guts of a lion. We were hoping yesterday\n- -had to come to see the President--Nancy was re-elected as you probabl\nknow for four more years and the President was very nice and he took\nquite of bit of his time actually. We missed you by 10 minutes , I think.\nK:\nThat's right. I came back at 3:00 p.m. --we\nB:\nWe were there early-- I think at 11:30 or 12:00 and you had just gone out.\nAny chance of having dinner tonight?\nK:\nCan I call you this afternoon\nB:\nThey don't finish their meetings till around 7:00 7:30 so if convenient\nat 8:30 or 9:00--\nK:\nLet me call you around 3:00 or 4:00\nB:\n3:00 and 4:00---I'll be back because I m having a meeting out at the\nKennedy Center-\nK:\nI'll call between 3:00 and 4:00\nB:\nYeh, it'll be lovely if we can see you--we'll be going back tomorrow\nnight-\nK:\nMarvelous--\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nK:\nOh, wildly.\nP:\nAnd your expropriating. I notice the memorandum you sent up of\nthe confidential conversation\nset up a policy for reim-\nbursement on expropriations and cooperation with the United States\nfor breaking relations with Castro. Well what the hell that is a great\ntreat(?) if they thing that. No don't let the columns and the bleeding\non that\nK:\nOh, oh it doesn't bother me. I am just reporting it to you.\nP:\nYes, you are reporting it because it is just typical of the crap we\nare up against.\nK:\nAnd the unbelieveable filthy hypocrisy.\nP:\nWe know that.\nK:\nOf these people. When it is South Africa, if we don't overthrow\nthem there they are raising hell.\nP:\nYes, that is right.\nK:\nBut otherwise things are faily quiet. The Chinese are making very\nfriendly noises. I think they are just waiting for my confirmation\nto make a proposal.\nP:\nWhen you say their noises are friendly, what do you mean?\nK:\nWell their newspapers have stopped attacking us. They are blasting\nthe Russians like crazy. And they have blasted them so much with\nPompidou there that he is embarrassed. And Sy Sultzberger(? had\nbeen denied a visa so we called them txixix to say that he was not like\nReston. And within 24 hours he got a visa.\nP:\nThat is good.\nK:\nYou know that they wouldn't do unless they wanted to ingratiate them-\nselves.\nP:\nRight, right.\nK:\nAnd I told you from the European front that is going along very well\nbut I think they ought to play it cool until next spring.\nXIX\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 3 -\nP:\nLooks like you might get confirmed perhaps Thursday of this week.\nK:\nIt looks like the Committee will vote on it on Tuesday and then\nWednesday or Thursday I might get confirmed and then\nP:\nMy idea is to have the swearing-in at the White House not the\nState Department.\nK:\nOh, absolutely. I mean if you were willing\nP:\nI thought we would have it in the East Room. Make it a big deal\nand bring over X some of the State Department people but basically\nlet's face it. The moment you start going to a Department to swear\nin - remember Eliott wanted me to come and swear him in and\nK:\nNo, no Mr. President. If you were willing\nP:\nWell we are - I am. I told Haig already we are going to have an\nEast Room ceremony.\nK:\nI would be honored to have it in the White House. And in any event\nI am going to work out with Haig and Ziegler when announcements\nhave to be made on foreign policy matters, which should be made\nat the White House and which at the State Department, but with the\nopposite view of Rogers. That is to move as much in the White House\nas we can.\nP:\nYes, where it is good.\nK:\nI mean when it is good news\nP:\nLet's say - let the White House do it.\nK:\nLet the White House do it. It is no - I think what we have to do (+) what\nI will do is to show the total unity of the State Department and the\nWhite House.\nP\nthe appointments you see if the double things\nK:\nThat is right.\nP:\nWe'll plan that.\nK:\nThe head of the Foreign Service Association came in to see me and\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n@ 4 as\nhe said we will defend your prerogative. I said you will do nothing\nof the kind. If you want to do something, do excellent work for the\nPresident and that will give you prerogative, but don't you tell me\nthe Secretary of State has any special prerogatives.\nP:\nHe said we will defend your prerogatives. That is probably what\nthey had told Bill.\nK:\nI mean that is the attitude of the Foreign Service.\nP:\nThat must be changed Henry, that should be changed.\nK:\nMr. President, that will be changed. These guys are so selfish and\nso self-centered. Well, with your approval as soon as I am confirmed\nI would like to go X over a list with you\nP:\nI am ready.\nK:\nAnd\nP:\nIn fact I don't have to wait. We can go over it any time\nK:\nI can do it anytime you are ready. I have already discussed it with\nHaig and he told me he has mentioned it to you.\nP:\nSure, anytime you are ready. Bring in the list and we can go over\nit SO we will waste no time. That is what I am for. So when ever\nyou want to you come in.\nK:\nBecause I am planning to X change every Assistant Secretary except\none. And all Under Secretaries, except Rush.\nP:\nWell have a good time at the game.\nK:\nThank you Mr. President\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon:9/16/73 (Home) 11:50\nMr. Kissinger/\nThe President:\nK:\nHello.\nP:\nHi, Henry.\nK:\nMr. President.\nP:\nWhere are you. In New York?\nK:\nNo, I am in Washington. I am working. I may go to the football game\nthis afternoon if I get through.\nP:\nGood. Good. Well it is the opener. It is better than television.\nNothing new of any importance or is there?\nK:\nNothing of very great consequence. The Chilean thing is getting\nconsolidated and of course the newspapers and bleeding because a\npro-Communist government has been overthrown.\nP:\nIsn't that something. Isn't that something.\nK:\nI mean instead of celebrating - in the Eisenhower period we would\nbe heros.\nP:\nWell we didn't - as you know - our hand doesn't show on this one\nthough.\nK:\nWe didn't do it. I mean we helped them.\ncreated the\nconditions as great as possible( (??)\nP:\nThat is right. And that is the way it is going to be played. But\nlisten, as far as people are concerned let me say they aren't going\nto buy this crap from the Liberals on this one.\nK:\nAbsolutely not.\nP:\nThey know it is a pro-Communist government and that is the way it is.\nK:\nExactly. And pro-Castro.\nP:\nWell the main thing was. Let's forget the pro-Communist. It was\nan anti-American government all the widek way.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nKen Rush (Dep Sec/State)/Mr. Kissinger\n7:20 p.m., September 14, 1973\nR:\nHenry, the telephone is so bad I can hardly hear you.\nK:\nWell, that's all that wiretapping equipment we've got here.\nR:\nWell, it must be because I have a terrible buzz on this telephone.\nK:\nKen, I just want to tell you that I've been talking to Moynihan in general\nabout whether you know, what conditions he would be willing to come\nback here without any precise ideas.\nR:\nRight.\nK:\nAnd he's talking to his wife just in case you hear anything on the grape-\nvine.\nR:\nWell, Henry, I had a call as a matter of fact from a Marilyn Berger\nK:\nYeah, but don't confirm anything.\nR:\nSaying that the rumor was that he is going to be Under Secretary of State.\nK:\nNo, he's going to take your place.\nR:\n(laughts) Well, I told her that I had not talked with you about this at all\nand there was nothing whatever to it.\nK:\nWell, that is correct.\nR:\nGood.\nK:\nAnd certainly not Under Secretary of State. But before I make any moves\nI will discuss it with you. I am asking a lot of these people that are\ncoming in -- you know, just to be able to calibrate who would be good\nfor what job but that doesn't mean that they'l get that job.\nR:\nExactly, exactly. Well, Henry, there is a leak in your office somewhere\nthat got to Marilyn Berger.\nK:\nWell, I suspect it was a leak from Moynihan to somebody.\nR:\nThat could very well be.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nKen Rush/Mr. Kissinger\n2\nK:\nBecause that's not a position that I had ever conceived for him.\nR:\nWell, I told Marilyn that you and I were not going to discuss personnel\nuntil after you were confirmed.\nK:\nJust keep to that position, Ken.\nR:\nI'll stick to that.\nK:\nGood.\nR:\nAs a matter of fact, I won't reveal anything of course. But I wanted\nto knock this damn rumor down because it's coming out tomorrow.\nK:\nRight. Well, I've knocked it down too.\nR:\nGood. Fine, Henry.\nK:\nBut I just wanted you to be aware of this.\nR:\nWell, I appreciate that very much. It's very helpful.\nK:\nBye.\nR:\nOkay.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/President\n9/16/73\n12:40 p.m.\nN:\nOh Henry, before you get off for the game, I was going to ask you\nabout a couple of things - first with regard to Gustaf, will there be\na public funeral on that or what is the situation-- do you know.\nK:\nProbably- and we can send somebody--\nN:\nWell I was wondering just as a gesture tothe Swedes if maybe Mrs.\nNixon ought to go to that.\nK:\nWell that would be a little too high a level - - can we wait until we see\nhow the election goes?\nN:\nYeh, that's what I had in mind - - but my point is it might not be too\nhigh level in the sense that it is very personal - in the sense that you\nknow what I mean we shouldn't let Palme - -whatever his\nname is - - be -- the Swedish people generally-\nK:\nBut to go from total, cutoff to Mrs. Nixon is an enormous step-\nN:\nYeh, I see, but even if the election came the other way-\nK:\nOh the election well then the trouble, frankly would be that it would\nlook like too eager but\nN:\nRight, okay - it just occurred to me as a possibility, but I can see the\npoint there.\nK:\nBut we can make a first gesture whoever wins by sending some senior\nperson in - - -\nN:\nIn other words, we are stuck with whoever wins - somebody has to go.\nK:\nElection is today, Mr. President\nN:\nYeh, I know, I know.\nN:\nK:\nThat's right. / Now the other thing that the State people have been\nchecking and it's something I'm totally open on - is going to that\nwest African area it would be necessary to take something along-\nK:\nThat I think would be an excellent-\nN:\n-contributions and SO forth, but you might run that by. The other\nthing they have asked her about is the French-American friendship\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nthing that they've been trying to get her to go to Finland and we have\nput them on the back burner because of the possibility of Europe, but\naswe know that's out now, between us, but would you check those two\nitems\nK:\nI will check\nN:\nIf either appears to be useful diplomatically, I'm sure I can convince\nher to go, now remember her trip to Peru and Africa was very\nsuccessful.\nK:\nSpectacular success.\nN:\nAnd its the gesture and also keeps us in a positive mood rather than just\nsort of appearing to be sitting around here.\nK:\nI've already begun to talk about that West Africa area-the drought area\nand I'm støongly in favor of it, let me immediately check what it is she\ncould bring--\nN:\nThat's right.\nK:\nAnd I think that we could do fairly soon.\nN:\nThat's right. Right. And of course, we have these State dinner things-\nbut we could get those - -a couple of them out of the way and go out there.\nmonth\nK:\nIt isn't a question of 4 weeks, but within the next xxxexexk she could easily\ndo it.\nN:\nYeh, she could do a dinner, then the trip only needs to take 4 or 5 days. I\nK:\nThat's right.\nI'll have a recommendation for you tomorrow-\nN\nAnd checkthe Finnish thing- On the Swedes it appears to me that if there\nis a public funeral, whoever wins the election, you've got to send some-\nbody--\nK:\nAbsolutely-\nN:\nAnd I don't know-or have we got anybody there we don't have an\nambassador there-\nK:\nWe have no one there - it wouldn't be an insult to send we only have\nvery low-level persons. But we can - - I will have a recommendafion\nfor you first thing in the morning--\nN:\nFine, fine, Okay, Henry. Thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nZiegler/Kissinger\n9:56 a.m. - 9/17/73\nK:\nHello.\nZ:\nHenry, you know there's this story over the weekend that said that\nhe (Moynihan) might come on to State and there are stories that\nsay he won't. How do you want to handle the thing? What are the\nfacts?\nK:\nThe facts are that I offered him something and he first turned it\ndown and now he's reconsidering it.\nZ:\nThe story this morning - did you see it where he sent a cable to his\nwife to disregard it.\nK:\nHe sent a cable to his wife to get her to change her mind.\nZ:\nOh, I see.\nK:\nI would say I'm talking to a lot of people. What I said to the press\nis that I'm talking to a lot of people and I haven't made any specific\noffers. Well, that goes a little too far - say I'm talking to a lot of\npeople\nZ:\nAnd at the right time you will make any announcements.\nK:\nThat's right. It's totally inappropriate for me to say anything now.\nZ:\nAnd should we say you talked to Moynihan?\nK:\nSay, certainly Moynihan is an old friend and I talked to him at great\nlength.\nZ:\nYeh. And then if they get into what you offered or not say'Look, this\nis not the right time to talk about it. 11\nK:\nI'm not in a position to offer anything now. OK. Now when do you\nwant to get together? I'm going to keep pressing you on this.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nK:\nNo, I want to get together with you. Let me call you when I'm through\nwith my hearings today.\nZ:\nAlright. Good.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSeptember 17, 1973/9:58 a.m.\nDobrynin/HAK\nK:\nHello.\nD:\nHello Henry.\nK:\nAnatol, how are you.\nD:\nHow are you?\nK:\nOh good.\nD:\nWell your voice sound and clear as usual. Henry, I just received a\ntelegram from Gromyke about present arrangement and he would\nlike me urgently to be in touch with you because he just already left\nMoscow for New York and as we discussed about this one about 24th\nwith you is quite alright except with\nbut 24th with you in\nNew York but as for here in Washington he couldn't make it on a\n1st as we originally disucssed with you because on the First he\nhas to leave for Moscow again. They would like him to be back.\nSo is it possible to arrange it with the President and then he will\ngive dinner or lunch in your honor at our Embassy the 26th or 27th.\nOr if you prefer some other but he is wantd today to get back on the\n1st.\nK:\n26th or 27th. That's Thursday or Friday.\nD:\nNo, I guess its Wednesday andThursday.\nK:\nWednesday I can't be there.\nD:\nOK. The 27th or 28th. Is the 28th alright.\nK:\nLet me try for the 27th or 28th.\nD:\nOK. Then I will call you later. OK. Because I will call you then\nfrom New York within four hours.\nK:\nOK Anatol. I'll let you know. Can we aim for the 28th. Its better for me.\nD:\nthe 27th or 28th. We will come by in one day.\nK:\nSo you come to me on the 24th and I come to you on the 28th.\nD:\nAnd he would like to meet with the President on the same date.\nK:\nOK. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nGeneral Haig/HAK\nSeptember 17, 1973/1:52 p.m.\nK:\nHello Al.\nH:\nSay Henry, George was very concerned that if he saw the President\ntoday and you weren't there you'd be mad at him and he's due in there\nfor 30 minutes at 3:00.\nK:\nI can't. I have to go back to the committee at 3:00 and I won't be bad\nat George if he sees the President without me.\nH:\nWell, He's going to touch a little bit on the Japanese monetary thing\nbut mostly he's going to talk about Patent Law Reform so\nK:\nAs long as he doesn't discuss Ingersoll with him.\nH:\nIhope he doesn't do that. I'll tell him not to.\nK:\nAre you going to be sitting in?\nH:\nNo, I'm trying to get these guys in.\nK:\nWell Maybe Scowcroft could sit in.\nH:\nI wouldn't worry about it.\nK:\nBut I'm not concerned about it.\nH:\nGeorge will tell me if he raises anything\nK:\nIt's awfully nice of George to raise it.\nH:\nHow did you do today?\nK:\nWell, you know they have to flex their muscles so they' re tough.\nH:\nWhat were they talking about MFN ?\nK:\nNo, they went over every name on that list.\nH:\nReally.\nK:\nBut not in a contentious mood. I think they just want to be able to say\nthey've done it. Then they quoted the Safire and Lewis articles. They\ngot a little bit into Chile and we'll have more of that this afternoon.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nH:\nThis should be the last day though right.\nK:\nDefinitely. They're supposed to vote tomorrow.\nH:\nGood.\nK:\nTell George not to worry about it. Are you going to call Kelly or\nshould I ask Scowcroft to do that.\nH:\nI can call Kelly. I have him on my list to call him. I've been in\nwith him all morning.\nK:\nOk. I'll talk to you when I get back.\nH:\nAlright.\nK:\nMany thanks.\n- 2 -\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSenator McGovern/Mr. Kissinger'\n6:03\np.m.\n9/17/73\nM:\nHenry\nK:\nHow are you George?\nM:\nWell pretty good, I just got back from a long trip across the country--\nI was out on that telethon in Los Angeles. Henry, I'm going to do some- -\nthing that will be very hard for me personally-- I'm going to vote against\nyour confirmation, just as a symbolic conviction against the policy we\npursued in Indochina the last four years, I'm going to explain that I think\nyou'll be an effective Secretary of State and I'm going to do everything I\ncan to cooperate with you and I think you are a talented and highly able\nman and that pragmatic grounds, I think the Senate should confirm you.\nBut it is better for even of those of us that have had some policy differences\nto be in a position to be in a position to be able to ask questions on the public\nrecord as we can in your role as Secretary of State, but that I just feel I\nhave to pass the symbolic \"no\" vote not against you personally of course\nI think you know how I feel about you personally\nK:\nRight.\nM:\nBut it is really the policy of the Administration and itwon't be a pleasant\nthing for me to do\nK:\nWell I understand\nM\nI wanted you to know I made a definite decision to do it, after grappling\nwith it and really not with very much joy.\nK:\nNo, I understand and appreciate the courtesy of your calling me.\nM:\nAnd after you are confirmed some time after things slow down a little for\nyou I wish sometime the two of us could get together, maybe at the\nMankiewicz's or some others and just kind of talk about-\nK:\nI woudd appreciate this and you know my high regard for you which is not\nnot affected in slightest by this.\nM:\nI appreciate that. And I did want you to know it before we said anything\npublicly.\nK:\nWell, I appreciate your doing this.\nM:\nAll right Henry.\nK:\nHope to see you soon\nM:\nThe best to you. All righty.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Senator Kennedy\n6:12 p.m.n 9/17/73\nT:\nHenry\nH\"\nTed\nT:\nI didn't know whether maybe some time later in the week or I could do\nit next week if it would be more convenient for you that I could talk to\nyou, I don't know how your-\nK:\nNo, I'd be delighted to do it. Can we wait until after the committee has\nvoted which will be tomorrow\nT:\nSure, sure. Fine.\nK:\nWhen would you like to do it--\nT:\nI don't know, I was thinking maybe Thursday, I have to go out of town\nFriday or I could do it - -\nK:\nThen let's do it Thursday\nT:\nThursday, maybe afternoon some time?\nK:\nSure\nT:\nThe morning I have something\nK:\nHow about later in the afternoon on Thursday around 6:00\nT:\nI think X 6:00 would be all right. If I don't have to go up to Boston\nK:\nI can do it at 5:00\nT:\nThat'd be fine, I think that'd be better.\nK:\nOkay, where should we meet.\nT:\nI can do it anyplace I've got actually a room over at the capitol that is\nquiet and good or I can come down, whatever is them ost--\nK:\nCould we talk to each other Thursday morning-\nAnd set the place. If I don't get caught in meetings, I'd be glad to come up.\nT:\nWonderful.\nK:\nGood, see you then.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Bryce Harlow\n6:15 p.m. 9/17/73\nH:\nHellow sir\nK:\nHow are you?\nH:\nShould I give my commiseration or congratulations?\nK:\nThey are going to vote tomorrow whatever that means. McGovern just\ncalled and said he'd vote against me.\nH:\nDid he?\nK:\nYeh, he said it is the hardest decision he had to make in a long time\n--it's giving him enormous pain and he hopes tomeet with me socially\nafterwards and it's a heart wrenching thing for him and I know how much\nhe likes me and admires me but he has to make a stand againstthe adminis- -\ntration.\nH:\nIs it because of the war in Cambodia?\nK:\nYeh\nH:\nWire taps?\nK:\nWire taps he didn't mentions. It is our policy. He'd make a public state-\nment saying he thinks I'd be an effective Secretary of State and - but he's\ngot to make a protest\nH\nWell\nK:\nIt will trigger 10 others wouldn't it?\nH\nIt could, but the quote I was given was 50 or was it 15 - which was it--\nK:\nFulbright you know our friend Saffire did me a lot of good, they let\nhim into the record and there was apparently something in the New\nYorker about it and they all made statements they weren't tough on me\n--I mean that they were not soft on me and then Fulbright said he is in\na terrible agaony how to vote, because he doesn't want to be in the position\nof endorsing the administration- is it possible that he'd vote against me?\nH:\nI had thought not. For the Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Relations\nI think it would be utterly irresponsible. I've seen it dowe you remember\nJack Miller of Ohio who voted against Earle Butz They did it in his case\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nbecause he was just a political chicken, but here of course you have\nand a\nman in the Senate. And I guess he's capable\nof it,\nK:\nBut yo don't think McGovern is going to trigger a lot - some others with him?\nH:\nI don't think many - some maybe- -he could pick up Hughes, obviously.\nK:\nNo, no, I mean on the committee\nH:\nHumphrey already said he'd support you--Symington said so, Church says\nhe'd support you\nK:\nHas Church said so?\nH\nI thought he called and told you that after it was announced.\nK:\nSo had McGovern (laughing) McGovern told Tom Braden he would.\nHe told Arthur Schlesinger he'd vote for me.\nH:\nMaybe he's been wrestling with his conscience. - His conscience finally won.\nI can't see much of a ripple, there may be a few.\nK:\nTed Kennedy called and said he wanted to get together with me later this week.\nFrom that I assume he's not voting against me.\nThe son-of-a-bitch can't be planning to vote against me and to see me.\nH:\nSure he can. Of course he can.\nK:\nReally?\nH\nTake for example Cong. Jack\nof Texas - - LBJ's ******** closest friend\nin Congress who is now investigating Nixon properties- he has asked to\ncome in Wednesday to bring a doctor from Galveston, Texas or Houston to\nget his picture taken with the President\nK:\nAre we doing it?\nflies\nH:\nProbably. Probably--just on the premise that you catch more Xkys /with\nhoney than vinegar doesn't cost anything much. But it will cost if we refuse\nit. XiXxxxx Be on the *********** vindictive ground if they're trying to hurt\nus, SO we won't see you. A President \"has to rise above that sort of thing\"\nso he is magnanimous -the other guy is mean so the congressman takes that\npicture and drags it over the district to show his meaness to the President\nis not resented- that's what he wants it for. Now I can see Kennedy voting\nagainst you and then eagerly coming down to get you picture taken with him\nat your office.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 3\nK:\nDo you think I'd see him if he voted against me?\nH:\nYou would have to later, if not then.\nYou can't just start building up a xxxxxx\nseries of enemies in the Sanate.\nYou've got to get the job done.\nK:\nBut Ted told me personally he'd vote for me.\nH:\nI think he will, but of course like you said, so did McGovern.\nI think - you might get a hand full of these far-out types but that doesn't\nhurt you in my book.\nK:\nIt doesn't hurt me to have McGovern vote against me.\nH:\nI don't think it does. As a matter of fact in a way it helps. If you get the\nfull support out of the weird-o's\nK:\nDo you think Fulbright--we 've gone over that.\nH\nI can't imagine that--earns rather severe censure\nK:\nFrom whomx?\nH:\nWell, you'll get some--there will be some people who will write about that.\nYou're going up there with a statement that is\nand honey and\nthe answer is the Chairman of the committee votes against you--and Teddy\nresponse to the effert of Dr. Kissinger, met with continuing hostility\nby the xxxxit committee- there is just no way to satisfy Senator Fulbright-\nthat kind of stuff will be written- we couldn't care less of course.\nK:\nHe did say - there is no XXX worry about going to NY next week on the 24th\nH\nThere is no question of your confirmation obviously, there is a little wonder-\nment now if McGovern makes a big deal out of it, I bet he doesn't.\nMaybe be a little patter of feet out of a handful of people saying I'll vote\nmy conscience too, but there won't be much of it and the extent of it will\nbe limited to that type.\nK\nOtherwise the meeting went fery well. Once you recognize what they are\ndoing, they were making a record, they were sort of weeping about the\nwiretapping and they went over the names and who did this and who did that\n--and but you would expect that. And then they asked about Chile - but that\nwas all easy.\nH:\nThey get you in those areas, then there is no contest.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 4\nH:\nSo friend McGovern wan S to vote against the administration at your expense.\nK:\nThat's what he said.\nIf I wanted to work on him, I'd probably change his mind again.\nH:\nI don't think it hurts you to have him vote against you--as long as he\ndoesn't have a whole lot of allies and I don't think he can possibly get them.\nK:\nGet allies? I don't know whom he can get on the committee maybe Church.\nI don't think he's making a fight of it\nH:\nHe's going to say quietly \"no\".\nWhat about Case?\nK\nI think he'll vote for me.\nHis conduct was very concilatory.\nH:\nThe only place where Fulbright was walking away from you at all was on\nthese taps.\nK:\nNo Fulbright was saying he didn't want to endorse our policy which he had\nopposed for 5 years.\nH\nWell these damn fools can easily say he's voting for you but not for policy\nK\nThat's what I told him--it was not an endorsement of policy, but my fitness\nto be Sec. of State.\nH\nWell this is about the last chance I can call you Doctor--\nK:\nOkay, Bryce, talk to you soon.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDobrynin/HAK\nSeptember 17, 1973/6:32 p.m. P.\nK:\nHello.\nK:\nD:\nHello Henry. About the date 27or 28th. / You've got one.\nK:\nThat's what I've proposed to the President 1 haven't had an\nanswer yet but I think it will be alright.\nD:\n28th or 27th.\nK:\n28th.\nD:\nWhen will you know Henry.\nK:\nBy tomorrow morning.\nD:\nShall I call you about 9:00\nK:\nNo, I won't have an answer that soon.\nD:\nOK. So it will be lunch time. OK. Thank you very much Henry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMark Childs/HAK\nSeptember 17, 1973/6:45 p.m.\nK:\nHello.\nC:\nHello Henry. We've been away. We've been in Mexico and heard some\nvery good things about you down there. Rabasa spoke warmly of you.\nK:\nHe's a good friend.\nC:\nHe's good isn't he. I like that crowd down there. Of course they were\nterribly upset by the Chilean thing.\nK:\nI'll bet. They were close friends.\nC:\nI know they were. Mrs. Allende was there just before the coup. I think\nits tragic. Well, Henry, I've just been talking to some of the committee\nand they think you may get by on Thursday.\nK:\nGet confirmed on Thursday?\nC:\nThey think so unless Senator Aboress.\nhe can blow the whole thing.\nBut they are hopeful they'll beable to fight that off. I talked to Bill\nand one or two others and the question was as you know Sparkman and\nCase were successful. Is the Monday commitment absolutely important\nHenry. I mean you should be up there on Monday at the U.N.\nK:\nNo, I can delay it but it would be sort of humiliating. I won't go up\nand give the speech unless I'm confirmed.\nC:\nYou can't go as Secretary Designate.\nK:\nI don't think it fair to the Senate.\nC:\nAren't you going up for the Dinner Project Hope on the 25th. Nelson\nis organizing that.\nK:\nYeah. I think if for some reason I weren't confirmed by Tuesday I\nwouldn't go for that either.\nC:\noh, I think that will be alright. It's been a hell of a time hasn't it?\nK:\nA little longer than I anticipated.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nC:\nWhen will youu get to China ?\nK:\nIn the last third of October. You know I've gd get organized here first.\nC:\nI know it. Things look a little better out there now don't they.\nK:\nI think the worst is over.\nC:\nApparently he handled that Congress with the greatest skill in the world.\nWife\nJane\nW:\nHello, congratulations and all that. I didn't write a note. You've\ngot to many notes to answer. Our prayers are with you. We were\nthrilled. That's the best news that has happened in God knows how\nlong.\nK:\nMany thanks I hope to see you soon.\nC:\nI hope to be up there if you're going to speak on Monday.\nK:\nI'm going to speak on Monday and also alot of the Europeans. I have\nan appointment with Ohera scheduled Monday.\nC:\nWell, as I say I talked to Bill and Carl Marcy and others and I think\nthey're quite hopeful.\nK:\nGood.\nC:\nWhat Jane said we both feel.\nK:\nYou've been marveouls friends and I hope to see you soon.\nC:\nWe were up at North Eastern 3 days after the appointment was announced\nand Nelson was exultant.\nK:\nHe's spectacular.\nC:\nOK, thanks Henry, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSecretary Rush/HAK\nSeptember 17, 1973/6;58 p.m.\nK:\nHello.\nR:\nHello Henry.\nK:\nKen, how are you?\nR:\nI'm fine thanks.\nK:\nI've found out in the meantime my over-eager assistant has already\ntalked to you.\nR:\nI was calling to make a date with you tomorrow.\nK:\nRight.\nR:\nWhat I wanted to see you about I can tell you now if you want to but\nsome of its\nit has to do with section 10 and 13. As you know, I\nwent to see Bill Fulbright about these and I've been seeing a great\nmany Seantors. Clay Pell has come around but Wayne Hayes has\ninsisted that we will have no State Bill and there will be no USIA bill\nand no AID Bill without Section 13.\nK:\nWhich is that. The Base Agreements.\nR:\nNo, that is the one having to do with our supplying information at\nthe request of a majority of either foreign relations or foreign affairs.\nAnything they want except direct communications with\nK:\nBut we can't agree to this.\nR:\nExcatly. Well he calledup today and wantdto know if I would come and\nsee him and I went up at 5:30 and just left and he said that he and\nFulbright had talked about this thing on the way back from England.\nThey just got back from England and they were willing to make. They\nunderstood my points about the State Department they said and they\nsaid he would not have Section 13 or Section 10 in the State Dept. Bill\nif we would not fight including Section 13 in the USIA and the AID Bill,\nwhich I think Henry, we ought to give very serious thought to because\nas you know the reason we can't have it in State is not only personnel\nrecords. It also has to do with the climate, no one would talk to us,\nwe wouldn't have access to all the\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nK:\nYes but this way they can get all the projected AID programs, all\nthe poles.\nR:\nThey can get AID programs projected which means whatever they\nwant out of AID and whatever they want out of STATE.\nK:\nOut of USIA.\nR:\nout of USIA, I'm sorry. But they would not come after State. Now of\ncourse we have to look at theis in terms of are there someday maybe\nnext year saying, well, we've got it from USIA and Aid. We ought\nto also extend it to State but I think by that time we can take care of\nthis thing and I think there is alot of merit to it.\nK:\nWell let me think about it. Can I think about it overnight.\nR:\nAbsolutely. Now Henry, I don't like it obviously. No one liked it\nbut in the climate that we are today there isn't too damn much we can\nhold back from them of a reasonable nature. And at least in AID\nand USIA we have no problems of dealing with other governments.\ngetting information from other governments. The intelligence community\ngiving State giving everything it needs. Of this sort of thing, State is\nthe main thing. God knows I don't like it but it may be the lesser of 2\nevils and it also, in terms of your going in, with an open policy, we\navoid an all out confrontation again with the veto which is also in the\nUSIA and AID Bills, the veto of those and then on a continuing resolution\nfor all three for the rest of the year.\nK:\nWell let me talk to the President about this tomorrow. He feels very\nstrongly.\nR:\nI know it. Everything is in good shape as far as your confirmation is\nconcerned.\nK:\nIt looks that way. The Committe is going to vote tomorrow. McGovern\nwill probably vote against it.\nR:\nHe will? Well, that won't hurt you.\nK:\nYou're going to be there tomorrow for the reception of Bhuto is that\ncorrect.?\nR:\nYes and I'll be chairing on through. OK Henry, Bye.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPresident/HAK\nSeptember 17, 1973/7:13 p.m.\nK:\nHello Mr. President\nP:\nHow did you get along today?\nK:\nWell they kept me up there for 6 hours. Largely because of\nSafire's article blasting them last week for being too gentle with me.\nP:\nSafire blasted you.\nK:\nBlasted them for being too easy\nP:\nWhy in the hell did he do that?\nK:\nWell, he said they should ask me more searching questions about\nthe wiretaps.\nP:\nWhat a jackass. Is he off his rocker.\nK:\nWell, he's on that wiretap kick.\nP:\nYeah, but for God's sake, Safire knows very well. You know how that\nhappened you know. He was talking to Henry Brandon. Hoover picked it\nup. We didn't have a thing to do with it. The first thing you and I ever\nheard of it Henry was when it came out now.\nK:\nWell, Mr. President, as it turns out he was put on a tap when we were\nin Rumania.\nP:\nIs that right. And neither of us ever knew about it and we would have\ndiscontinued it immediately. Anyway, so what a silly thing to have a\nnext Secretary of State screwing around with peasant getting tapped like\nWilliam Safire who knows damn well he's not suspected of a thing.\nK:\nWell, they didn't go into much of him. They just went again and again\nprocedures and I kept hitting them. I said, now gentlemen, what I\nrecommend is that if you're interested that you compare it with the\nprocedures of previous administrations.\nP:\nGood.\nK:\nI'm in no position to say it but I've been told that it was done for the\nsame purposes in previous administrations.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nP:\nAnd in much greater numbers.\nK:\nThat's right. And then Muskie kept coming after that. He said did\nprevious Administrations tap for leaks or for national security.\nP:\nBoth.\nK:\nI said, excatly, my information is that both but I recommend that\nif you are that concerned about it make a formal request.\nP:\nYou know Henry, if you're up again. I don't know.\nI'd give Muskie\na call tomorrow and say the President would be very glad to turn it\nover Senator but it's your responsibility when the names come out. T11\nput it to them. Believe me if they want to play these games. Don't let\nthem get away with that.\nK:\nNo, they are going to vote tomorrow morning.\nP:\nWell, it'll be unanimous\nK:\nNo, McGovern called and said, you know how much I like you Henry,\nYou know how much I admire you and I want to work with you but my\nconscience forces me to protest against the policies to vote against\nyou.\nP:\nThat gets you the word on McGovern doesn't it.\nK:\nWell, I said to him Senator. This does not affect my estimate of you.\nAn ambiguous statement.\nP:\nYou know it's the best thing that could ever happen. With our conservateive\nfriends to have McGovern vote against you. We need it.\nK:\nExactly. That doesn't disturb me. So then they went into Chile.\nP:\nRemember on McGovern though. Never let the sob in again now,\nbelieve me. Never let him in again. Not socially or otherwise. Never\nforget this sort of thing. He can't give you that kind of crap. That's\nwhat he's trying to do, vote against you and then be for you. No.\nK:\nTo be for me where it doesn't cost my anything. To be quietly for me\nand to be publicly against me. On Chile they, I said it states the fact\nthat this was a violently anti-American government.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 3 -\nP:\nI don't care about the communists. They're against us.\nK:\nAnd it was a violently anti-American government. That it was its own\nincompetence that got it into these difficulties. I said certainly we didn't\ngive any aid but they cancelled 250 million dollars worth of loans which\nhas the same practical consequence as AID and that was more aid than\nthey've ever received and nevertheless they mismanaged the country\ninto a total\nSo they got off that subject. On substance they're afraid\nto tackle me.\nP:\nThey don't dare. That McGovern, doesn't that prove that total\nhypocorisy of the liberals though Henry. If you ever had any doubt\nabout it. All of the friends of yours that have, the Bradons, and the\nrest, what's this all about.\nK:\nAbsolutely. They're cowards. That's the worse thing. Total\ncowards. But they're going to vote tomorrow. Fulbright was weeping\naround about your statement on Sept. 12 or whenever, about the defense\nbudget and I said well, that's our conviction, he said do you share it,\nI said absolutely, he said, are you going to,\nP:\nMy statement or the press conference.\nK:\nThe statement about the state of the union, the second state of the\nUnion.\nP:\nThat was on the Defense.\nK:\nAre you going to vote these views before our Committee and I said\nI don't think Mr. Chairman that it's a good idea to make treaties now\nwhat I'll testify to before the Committee because I expect that you want\nme to be truthful but I can tell you now that's the position I'll defend\nbefore your committee. He moved right off that one.\nP:\nWell.\nK:\nHe said is that bipartisanship and I said, Mr. Chairman, I have to make\none thing clear. Bipartisanhip doesn't mean we have to accept your point\nof view. It just means we have to give a respectful hearing.\nP:\nGreat. Was this public?\nK:\nThat was Executive Session.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 4 -\nP:\nI wish it were public.\noccasions for\nK:\nWell, there will be many/public sessions. I don't think they are all\nthat eager to tackle me on substance.\nP:\nNever. Now they're going to vote tomorrow, and that's Thursday and\nthen Wednesday probably bring it on the floor you thing. Wednesday or\nThursday. Mike Mansfiedwon't be against you do you think?\nK:\nNo, Mike was very helpful.\nP:\nMike is a decent man and he's against us but he knows we're honest\nand we respect him for his honesty. Isn't that it?\nK:\nThat's right. He' 11 be opposed to us on Cambodia and a number of things.\nP: Was he helpful?\nK:\nHe asked decent questions. The sort of thing on which you can't lose.\nWhat are you going to do with the intelligence organization in the State\nDept. Are you going to give the younger officers a chance ? And the\ngreat thing I could tell him what you had told me at the very first meeting\nwhen I talked to you in New York.\nP:\nDid you make a little speech I hope.\nK:\nOh yes, I told him the very first thing the President discussed with me\nbefore my first meeting, my first substantive discussion concerned the\nvery points you are now making.\nP:q\nThat's the first time we ever met.\nK:\nThat's right. I said the President repeated that instruction before\nI took this, before he offered me this nomination and since and that's\none of the charges that I carry out with the greatest pleasure.\nP:\nGood. Your ordeals over. Not much of an ordeal.\nK:\nIt's like apress conference in a sense you have to be up there all the\ntime and I don't go in there with notes so I do it extemporaneously and\nI don't look things up but it wasn't a real ordeal.\nP:\nThe thing about a press conference which of course makes it more\ndifficult is that when million S are listening and the world is listening.\nIt's the same kind of thing.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 5 -\nK:\nBut the concentration is much greater in a press conference, and\nparticularly with this press corp.\nP:\nDon't worry about them. In the end we'll win.\nK:\nNo question about that.\nP:\nTell me about the Chinese? You really think they're going to come\naround?\nK:\nOh, no question. You know the Philadelphia Symphony is there.\nP: ]\nIt is there. I didn't know whether they accepted them or not.\nK:\nOh yeah, they got there yesterday and Mrs. Mao in a silk dress came\nto their.\nP:\nSilk dress!!! Instead of wearing that horrible costume.\nK:\nExcatly. Came to their concert\nP:\nHow was it received?\nK:\nVery warmly and he said at the reception afterwards he greeted\nby\nreferring\nfirst there were banners in the hall creating a long list\nof friendship between the Chinese and American peoples and at the\nreception afterwards he greeted Ormandy by referring to the Phil.\nOrchestra as 1940 benefit concert and stating that XX this act of support\nfor the Chinese people made it feel as though they had known each other\nfor a long time. He said Chinese people do not forget old friends he\ncontinued, which is of course, hardly directly to us because they always\ncall XX you and to some extent me old friends. Then some more of this\nand Ormandy was on the verge of tears by this point.\nP:\nYou thought it went well?' (Bruce)\nK:\nVery well, I' mean he's just ecstatic.\nK:\nMadame Mau was dressed in a formal black version of the great dress\nshe wore earlier, white shoes and handbag and a small evening wristwatch.\nAnd Madame Mau's presence and unprecendly warm welcome for Phil.\nSymphony represet a strong reassurance, the development of bilateral\nrelations with the U.S. remains a high priority item for the Chinese\nleadership. Her well published actions put into perspective the\nof\nthe 10th party congress and other recent ideological statements from this\nstandpoint.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 6 -\nP:\nYeah, sure. That's good.\nK:\nYou know that was intended for us here.\nP:\nThat's good.\nK:\nAnd Grymoko is over here and he's requested to see you, and you've\nseen him every year and he's asked for September 28th if that were\nat all possible.\nP:\nWhen is that ?\nK:\nA week from this Friday.\nP:\nOK. That's a good day.\nK:\nGood, so I'll confirm then tomorrow. I've already talked to Haig and\nhe's got a formal request into you.\nP:\nOh sure. We'll see him.\nI think there that I probably\nwhat do\nyou think we ought to do with our friend the British fellow?\nK:\nWe've already told him no.\nP:\nGood.\nK:\nThey really haven't been that helpful and.\n...\nP:\nThey haven't been helpful and why should we just.\nK:\nWell we have said whenever he was over here alone you'd be happy to\nsee him but when all other West European countries are requesting to\nsee you to single him out wouldn't be consistent withthe general policy\nhe himself has developed.\nP:\nGood point. Let's be a little distant and they'll come to us. Just like\nthe Indians have.\nK:\nNo question about it.\nP:\nThey'll get the message but we'll see Grymoko because we always see\nhim and we've got business to transpire.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 7 -\nK:\nAbsolutely.\nP:\nThe 28th. I'm sure I can work that out.\nK:\nI think it would be very helpful.\nP:\nWell then, I still think we can probably figure on manybe Friday for\nyour swearing in.\nK:\nThat'w what it looks like. Yes.\nP:\nWe're sort of holding that open but we'll sort of figure Friday.\nK:\nYeah, that's what it looks like now.\nP:\nWell invite the Committee but we'll invite the House Committee also.\nK:\n1 think we should invite the House Committee.\nP:\nI'm going to invite the Arms Services Committee too in both Houses.\nK:\nRight. That should fill the room by itself.\nP:\nWell, it'll fill half of it and then we can get alot of State Department people\nand a few other people and that's it.\nK:\nUnder Secretaries, Assistant Secretaries, the problem is most of them\nwill be gone in thraee weeks.\nP:\nWell, I won't ask them then.\nK:\nI think we should ask them. It's a good symbolic gesture.\nP:\nDo they know they're going to be gone.\nK:\nNo. I'll give them 48 hours warning, otherwise it would leak all over\nthe place.\nP:\nThat's enought. 48 hours.\nK:\nI mean most of them we'll give other jobs to in some Embassy.\nP:\nThey all like to be Ambassadors anyway.\nK:\nThat's right. But I think we have to get younger and dynamic people in.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 8 -\nP:\nYeah. You know I was talking to Shultz today about our friend in Japan.\nK:\nYeah.\nP:\nAnd he, of course, is very high on him. He thinks he's done a great\njob in Japan. He says that he doesn't question him he sincerely that\nfew jobs are more important than that one because the Japanese\nrespect him and all that sort of thing.\nK:\nBut he would be in charge\nI think bringing him here. George says\nthere is no political sense. The man in charge of East Asia is Japanese\nexpert that is the best answer we can give to.\nP:\nI don't want a foreign service guy in that job.\nK:\nIn Japan. I know we should find somebody like Ingersoll or maybe Casey.\nP:\nYes, he'd do alright.\nK:\nHe would do very well.\nP:\nYeah.\nK:\nOr anybody. I don't think it should be a foreign service guy.\nP:\nNot in Japan no. It's got to be a business type. That's what they're\ninterested in.\nK:\nBut I think Ingersoll could do a suXperb job here as Assistant Secretary.\nIt would upgrade the position of Assistant Secretary and would take the\nmonopoly of the foreign service in those positions. And he could really\nshape it up.\nP:\nYeah. You'd have to give him great responsiblity you know. This is a\ntop flight fellow and he'd have to realize that he is not just coming here\nas a\nK:\nMy intention would be to give him practically carte blanche in that area.\nP:\nHave you talked to him yet?\nK:\nYeah.\nP:\nWhat's he think of it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 9 -\nK:\nWell he was at first a little reluctant but now he's willing to do it.\nP:\nHe'll do what we want if he thinks it's the most important thing.\nK:\nI think he's done what he can do in Japan and if I can't get a few non-\nforeign service officers in these key spots\nP:\nYou're dead, I know.\nK:\nYeah. And he would then handle Japan, China, Korea. He could do a\nsuperb job in there.\nP:\nHe'd have the Marshall Green job?\nK:\nThat's right. We could trust him where we couldn't trust Marshall Green.\nP:\nTrust him totally.\nK:\nAnd that's really the pivotal position in the State Dept. into which we have\nto get people we can rely on.\nP.\nI agree. You might tell George when you talk to him tomorrow that you\nand I have talked about it and that's what we decided and tell him how.\ni mean\nthat the point is we need a man of his type right here.\nK\nWe need him here. We need to upgrade the position. We need to set an\nexample to the rest of the foreign service.\nP:\nFinding a good man for that job will be quite a responsibility but.\nHave you thought of\nspoken with David Rockefeller or something ?\nK:\nI'm seeing him tomorrow. I'm thinking of him for the Casey job.\nP:\nHe'd be a hell of an Ambassador to Japan.\nK:\nHe won't take it. I've already mentioned that to him.\nP:\nOK. Well, he'll do Casey's job well too.\nK:\nHe'll do it very well indeed. Add alot of\nP:\nDoes Casey have to be reconfirmed to do that?\nK:\nUnfortunately yeah.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 10 -\nP:\nThat's the only problem. Oh well. The only problem I'm concerned with\nthere is to whether they go and give him a\nover about ITT and all\nthat crap again but.\nK:\nWell they had him up in January\nP:\nYeah. We can talk about that later. It's alright with me if he thinks he\ncan hack it on the hearing.\nK:\nRight. Well Haig was going to talk to him this week.\nP:\nRight. All in all our meeting with the Armed Services thing is fine.\nThe Jackson made his ploy and he's alright though, he's alright in\nthe defense side of it. I'm leaving MFN, he's\nfeels very strongly\nabout using our influence to. I don't know, he's a little mixed up on\nit. I think you ought to have a real good chat with him sometime. You\nprobably haven't done that have you.\nK:\nNo, I talked to him\nP:\nnot about MFN but the whole smear.\nK:\nThat's right. We agreed this morning before we went there, before\nwe went into your office, that soon after my confirmation I was going\nto come to his house and talk to him.\nP:\nGood, that's the way to do it. OK. Anything else in the world I need\nknow about.\nK:\nNo, I think otherwise\nP:\nHave you had the people, on another scale, checking on the possibility\nof Mrs. Nixon going over to Africa.\nK:\nYes. Everyone is enthusiastic about it and we will have a package for\nyou tomorrow. I mean of what she can bring with her so she'll certainly\nhave something\nP:\nIt's possible she might do that and then go on to Finland with this other\nthing but I don't know whether to do it or not.\nK:\nI don't have the impression that the Finnish thing is all that high level\nP:\nBut you can take a look at it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 11 -\nK:\nWe've Arleigh Burke to go to the funeral.\nP:\nArleigh Burke. He's\nK:\nHe's of Sweedish extraction.\nP:\nMarvelous. That's good. I was thinking you could even ask. I was\nthinking of asking Nelson to do it but that would be probably too high\ngrade.\nK:\nParticularly now that that Bastard\nhas just won the\ncommunist votes making the difference.\nP:\nIsn't that something. 2 votes.\nK:\nHe lost 4 votes and the communists picked up 2 so he still has a 2 vote\nmajority.\nP:\nBut that's awful tight isn't it.\nK:\nVery tight.\nP:\nNo great embarrassment is it\nK:\nNo, the only question is whether he's going to move to the left XX to\ndoes he pick up the communists votes or to the right to pick up the\nvotes he lost to the center.\nOL\nI see. Well, that's his problem. That's no great skin off our back\neither way.\nK:\nThat's right. I think we can move slowly towards reestablishing diplomatic\nrelations now.\nP:\nVery slowly. Deliberately we'll see what he does like we've done with\nAllende you know. The slow movement is what really matters here Henry.\nK:\nExactly.\nP:\nQuite slowly and deliberately. OK.\nK:\nRight Mr. President.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMcNamara/Kissinger\n9:45 a.m. - 9/18/73\nK:\nHello.\nM:\nHello, Henry, how are you?\nK:\nBob, how are you?\nM:\nFine. Say, I hate to bother you with my business but I got a problem\nnow that is close to being your business. Let me sketch it to you very\nquickly. The meeting of the Bank and Foreign Governors starts in\nNairobi next Monday. On Sunday in Nairobi the Committee of 20 meets -\nthe Finance Ministers in preparation for that Monday meeting as far as\nthe monetary problems are concerned. On Saturday what are known as\nthe Deputies of the Finance Ministers for the Renegotiation of the Fourth\nReplenishment of (Item) meet. This matter was started last September\nand was supposed to have been settled in March of this year, it's been\ndragging on and on because the U.S. hasn't given an answer. All of the\nother countries have agreed on the formula at $1500 million of commitment\nauthority per year for 3 years with the US percentage to be reduced from\n40% to 33 1/3%.\nK:\nWe've had a paper into the President for weeks on this.\nM:\nOn Saturday of this week the wholething was to be lined up with that. I\njust heard and I can't even disclose my - in fact I don't know the name of\nthe guy in the government who gave us the information - but last night\nShultz went over to talk to the President about this and the President\nsaid that if Shultz hadexx said in effect that the Congressional support\nisn't strong enough to put through such legislation without the President's\nsupport, the President said \"Well, he's got too much to do on military\nand certain other things that he can't support it. 11\nK:\nI have told the god-damned Shultz not to do this a hundred times.\nM:\nHonest a god, Henry, it's the most inept thing I've ever seen. He told -\nI told the Treasury the other day I could deliver these Chairman -look\nif they'l let me do it.\nK:\nBob, it drives me up a wall. Shultz all summer long has had a memo\ninto the President asking the President for his abstract commitment\nto support the replenishment. I stopped it and pulled it out of the\nPresident's office all summer long. Because you cannot ask a President\nto make an abstract commitment to do something.\nM:\nOf course not. When you finally get down to the wire you want to say\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nM: (con't) \"Mr. President, would you just give Passman one call.\nK:\nWhat I had tried to explain to the bull-headed professor that what good\ndoes it do - supposing he gets a Presidential commitment, then he gets\nto a crunch and needs a phone call, what's he going to do walk in with\nthat paper and say you have a legal commitment to call Passman.\nM:\nHenry, my information may be wrong but let me say one further word\nwhich is the real key to the thing. I'm out so god damn far on a limb\nwith Vietnam I'm going to get my ass burned unless this goes through.\nI have a meetingtentatively scheduled with governments on the 17th\nof October in Paris to start organizing the financing of Vietnam.\nK:\nBob, it's going to go through. It is one of these insane, pendantic,\neconomic nuttinesses that he's gotten into trouble with time and again\nbecause I told this stupid bastard not to raise it and when I stopped the\nmemos he's gone into the President now and done it personally.\nM:\nOne reason for my thinking what I heard this morning is correct is that\nalso this morning Shultz called and wanted to see me today so I'm going\nto see him sometime - unspecified - this afternoon - my guess is that\nK:\nSee him late in the afternoon so that I can get to him.\nM:\nI'll do that.\nK:\nWe will certainly be - this thing would be through now if it weren't\nfor this stupid\nM:\nAbsolutely insane. I'll leave it in your hands, Henry. I'll drop everything\nto see you or anything else.\nK:\nBob, I'm sorry I'm speaking so vehemently, but it seems to me the sort\nof battle that no skillful bureaucrat would ever fight.\nM:\nIt's insane, Henry. But we don't have much time.\nK:\nI'll get right after it. It should have been approved to begin with.\nM:\nOK, thanks.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\nMexican Foreign Minister Rabasa/HAK\nSept. 18, 1973; 1:47 p.m.\nK:\nEmilio. How are you?\nR:\nI just got the very good news that all things are OK, no?\nK:\nThe Senate still has to vote, but that's pretty much of a formality,\nif the committee votes. The Senate never overturns a committee.\nR:\nWell, I'm over-joyed, Henry, and I know and hope that you'll be\na great Secretary of State.\nK:\nBut I know you, Emilio. You're going to pull rank on me now as\nthe senior Foreign Minister.\nR:\n[laughs] No, Henry, I'm leaving for United Nations the 28th, more\nor less. When in New York I'll call you.\nK:\nGood. I want to see you. You know, if you can put your charter\ninto neutral language.\nR:\nMy what?\nK:\nThat charter - into neutral language.\nR:\nYes, and we have thought about this - not as a treaty, but as a\ndeclaration.\nK:\nThat's what I mean, as a declaration.\nR:\nExactly. That's our thought.\nK:\nBut if you can do it without being critical of the developed nations.\nR:\nThat I will do.\nK:\nThen I think we will make a big effort to support it.\nR:\nThat I will do, Henry. And I'll set down with you and I'll go over it.\nK:\nAnd also I want to discuss with you getting Latin American policy\nmore active.\nR:\nFine, because I will just see, well, I have a lot to speak to you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nI was just going over the countries one by one, and I will speak to\nyou and you see that democracy is now a very curious item in\nLatin America.\nK:\nYes, well, we'll have to talk about it, Emilio, and I need your help\nin this respect.\nR:\nPlease, Henry, the place that took certain steps, now lay very low,\nHenry, because they are saying that, well, you know, you helped\nthings that happened.\nK:\nI personally?\nR:\nOh, no, no, no, the government.\nK:\nNo, that isn't true. Believe me, it isn't.\nR:\nHenry, you're telling me - I know it. But, play it very cool at this\nmoment.\nK:\nWell, we are playing it very cool.\nR:\nBecause now they're saying that money is going to overflow over there.\nK:\nOh, no, we're going to go slowly.\nR:\nAnd that the biggest national is going to go back again.\nK:\nWho?\nR:\nITT.\nK:\nNo, no, no.\nR:\nWell, they are trying to but I want you to start with the right certainty\na great Secretary of State, especially concerning Latin America.\nK:\nWell, that is my intention, Emilio, and with your help, we can do it.\nlet no]\nR:\nBut at this moment, please, if you can mostly support these people\nbecause the image of these guerillas all over Latin America is terrible,\nHenry. Any association of you, or the government, or the President\nwould be terrible at this moment.\nK:\nNo, no, we are moving very deliberately.\nR:\nPlease do SO until I speak to you and I can explain many things that I've\nheard and know.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 3 -\nK:\nGood.\nR:\nMy big, big, abrazas, Henry, and I will send you a very nice letter.\nOnce in New York, I'll call you and I'll fly over to Washington to see\nyou.\nK:\nGood. Terrific.\nR:\nThank you.\nK:\nEmilo, look forward to seeing you and you'll be my chief associate\nin Latin American policy I hope.\nR:\nI'm going to be your chief friend, as I always hope, wherever you stay\nthere or I stay in this post.\nK:\nExactly.\nR:\nWe're going'to be friends forever, Henry.\nK:\nThere's no question about that.\nR:\nYou invite me to your home or I'll invite you to Embassy. We'll have\na long chat.\nK:\nGood, one or the other.\nR:\nOkay, I'll call you when I am in New York.\nK:\nFine.\nR:\nA big abrazas.\nK:\nMy warmest regards to your wife.\nR:\nYou're going to be a great Secretary of State I hope.\nK:\nI hope so too.\nR:\nBye, Henry.\nK:\nBye, Emilo.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSenator Fulbright/Mr. Kissinger\n2:34 p.m., September 18, 1973\nK:\nMr. Chairman.\nF:\nWell, Mr. Secretary, how are you?\nK:\n(laughs) I'm fine and I just wanted to call you to tell you how much I\nappreciated the fairness with which these hearings were conducted\nand I realize it was difficult for many of your colleagues. in the light\nof what had happened.\nF:\nWell, I think it came out all right.\nK:\nAnd also to tell you that now that the hearings are over, everything I\nsaid I wanted to reaffirm again.\nF:\nWell, thank you very much. I'm relying on that and I hope we can do\nsome good. I'm looking forward to it.\nK:\nI don't know when it would be appropriate for you and me to get together.\nI'd like to go over some things with you on personnel and so forth.\nF:\nYep.\nK:\nDoes that have to wait for the Senate confirmation?\nF:\nWell, you've got to go up there and I'm just snowed under. I was away\nyou know last week and I've got about 4 different things. Just as soon\nas you get back from --\nK:\nYou won't be able to come up with me?\nF:\nOh, Henry, I just can't do that. I've got -- I asked them to put off --\nwe've got, you see, this foreign aid and I'm so deeply involved in about\n4 things. I put off the Conference meeting twice because I was away\nand then also we had to slip one of them because of your hearings.\nK:\nYeah.\nF:\nAnd I've got it piled up here, Foreign Aid, Defense Procurement and\nabout 4 other things.\nK:\nBut do try on October 4th when I'm giving the dinner for all the\nDelegations.\nF:\nOctober 4th.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSenator Fulbright/Mr. Kissinger\n2\nK:\nIn New York at the Metropolitan Museum, all the foreign ministers\nand heads of government who are there --\nF:\nIs that the evening of the 4th?\nK:\nThat's the evening of the 4th.\nAnd it would even be nice if you and\nMrs. Fulbright would agree to be in the receiving line with me.\nF:\nWell, I'll try to do that. By that time, I hope we've cleared some of\nthis out of the way.\nK:\nI think it would be a nice gesture to the UN and that is after all,\nsomething on which there is/unammity complete between us.\nF:\nYeah.\nK:\nAnd if anything, you're out ahead of me.\nF:\nYeah, I think so.\nK:\nSo if you could come to that.\nF:\nWell, we'll see if we can do that.\nK:\nI think that would be nice. Now, are you free for breakfast any\nmorning this week, say Saturday, or is that a bad day for you?\nWe can wait till next week if that's easier for you.\nF:\nThis week is an awful bad week. We just got a message we'll be\nthreatened with a Saturday session. In fact, the leadership is trying\nto get through in October. But how about next week 25th or 27th.\nK:\nYeah, I'll be back on the 27th. Should we have lunch on the 27th?\nF:\nOkay.\nK:\nDo you want me to come up to your place or would you like to come to\nthe State Department, assuming --\nF:\nWell, whatever you say. You'll be in the State Department by then.\nK:\nWell, I'd be very pleased if you'd come to the State Department.\nF:\nOkay, Thursday, the 27th.\nK:\nThursday, the 27th about 1 o'clock.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nSenator Fulbright/Mr. Kissinger\n3\nF:\nOkay. That's fine.\nK:\nGood. It will be just you and I.\nF:\nOkay. Anything you wish to talk about, if you will let me know, I'll\ntry to inform myself if there's anything special.\nK:\nWell, I wanted to talk to you about personnel changes that I have in\nmind.\nF:\nOh, I see.\nK:\nI'll call you ahead of time on any substantive issue.\nF:\nOkay. That's fine.\nK:\nI just want to review with you where we're going and what issues\nare likely to come up.\nF:\nGood. That will be good.\nK:\nGood. So I'll see you for lunch on the 27th. at the State Department.\nF:\nThat's fine.\nK:\nThat's very, very nice.\nF:\nVery good.\nAnd congratulations.\nK:\nThank you and my appreciation again.\nF:\nAnd good luck.\nK:\nThank you. Well, I count on working together closely with you.\nF:\nWell, I think if we can, if they'll let us try, I think maybe we can find\nsome way to improve our lot.\nK:\nWell, I'll make a really major effort.\nF:\nOkay. I know you will.\nK:\nThank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nBryce Harlow/HAK\nSeptember 18, 1973/3:23 p.m.\nK:\nHello.\nH:\nThe whole thing got away from me entirely.\nK:\nWell I must say Bryce, with dedication and hard work you finally\nmanaged to vote.\nH:\nWell, I'm awfully sorry Henry, I didn't get that half vote against you,\nI did my darndest.\nK:\nDid you see McGovern's statement? I'm glad he thinks so highly of me.\nHe said the reason he voted against me is because I needlessly prolonged\nthe war in Vietnam and closed my eyes to the killing of hundreds of\nthousands of people in East Bengal.\nH:\nBut he thinks very very highly of you.\nK:\nBut he does think highly of me and he's eager to have social contact with\nme right after my nomination.\nH:\nYou murderer. He likes that. He likes to socialize with murderers.\nThat's the reason the people voted him down. They didn't like that sort\nof thing as much.\nWell, I'm sorry about the lack of unanimity.\nK:\nActually I think I could have picked the vote, I'd rather have McGovern\nagainst me than for me.\nH:\nI agree with that.\nK:\nIf he had triggered two or three others it would have been bad but I\ndon't think the American public thinks much of McGovern.\nH:\nWell, I was at this luncheon for Bhutto that the Vice President gave and\nFarland, our former Ambassador was sitting next to me.\nK:\nOh in Pakistan. He's a good man.\nH:\nI told him things are sure breaking just right for Henry.\nK:\nHe said what do you mean?\nH:\nI said McGovern voted against him.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nK:\nWhen is the Senate going to vote now?\nH:\nIt depends on the transcripts fundamentally first of all of getting them\nin shape and then ag etting them acceptable to the Committee. I don't\nknow what's happened on that. That's what I was on the phone about\nthis morning so much. Now what's since happened\nK:\nWell I don't have any sense that there is any disagreement between\nthe committee and my office on any transcripts in which I participated\nH:\nWith the Justice Department.\nK:\nI think there is some dispute between the Justice Department. I don't\ngive a damn what they put in the transcript.\nH:\nWell there is a discomfort between Justice and the Committee and now\nhave you finally gotten the transcaripts in your office.\nK:\nI don't know, I asked Eagleburger to get them.\nH:\nYou see that could hold them up and we've got to get them up there.\nThen someone can ask for a layover of a day you see and it's potentially\na two day delay in other words.\nK:\nYou mean they'll voteon Thursday or Friday?\nH:\nYeah. It's usually a couple of days mainly because of the transcripts\nand/or someone is trying to cost you a day but I don't why anybody\nwould do that including McGovern.\nK:\nThat he won't do. He's already going to take some fanastic social\nheap here in town for doing what he did.\nH:\nOh, well, don't be mean to him Henry, he's a nice man. He has alot\nof influential friends.\nK:\nLet me check on the transcripts, I have no idea where they are.\nH:\nI was told by Marcy that they were in your office and you were working\non testimony.\nK:\nWell if that's what Marcy told you I've got more eager beavers around.\nYou know Harlow you've got 48 hours of my time more.\nH:\nI realize that and I've already bought my knee pads.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nK:\nAre you looking for a Congressional liaison type for me?\nH:\nYeah, I'm trying to find time to call and ask about the two you've\nalready picked.\nK:\nWell when are you goikng to do that?\nH:\nIf I can get out from the problem of saving the Presdent from these\nother disasters today, it's been a disasterous days, you've been\nreported, number one, number two I lost my job there you see and\nnumber two he's going to go out for this mandatory allocation without =\nany visible means of implementing it. And number three he almost\nruined his housing program by over-reaching, number four, I have\nto get your man Bhutto properly received by the Vice President.\nK:\nHe's got alot of dignity. OK if you could.\nH:\nI'll more on your two guys.\nK:\nWould you see whether you can do it within the next 24 hours. I'd\nbe most grateful.\nH:\nI'll try my best. I'll just tell the President that he comes second.\nK:\nWhey don't you do that.\nH:\nYes, I will.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nGeorge Shultz/HAK\nSeptember 18, 1973/4:01 p.m.\nK:\nGeorge.\nS:\nHi Henry.\nK:\nI hope you realize this that you might as well enjoy this for another\nweek or so. I'm not getting on the phone first. As soon as I get sworn\nin I'm calling all my colleagues and put them on first.\nS:\nRight.\nK:\nCause we've got to have a little discipline around here.\nS:\nI'm shocked that my Secretary let that happen. I've instructed her\notherwise.\nK:\nGeorge, I had a phone call from McNamara who had heard a rumor that\nyou had gone to the President and asked him to commit himself to give\nus his support for the IDA replenishment and that the President turned\nthat down. I don't know whether that's true. Now my view on this\nmatter remains what it was. It is absolutely senseless to ask the\nPresident for an abstract commitment. He'll never give it. The time\nto do it is when the issue is concrete. Then he will do it if you and I\nurge it.\nS:\nWell, I talked to the President about it because we have to take a position.\nOn Saturday, this coming Saturday.\nK:\nBut we have to be fore it.\nS:\nWell, we are for it.\nK:\nOh good. Are you going to tell this to McNamara.\nS:\nWe will but we just can't be fore it because the Congress is not only\nchilly, the Congress is ice cold on this subject.\nK:\nYeah, but we've got to do it. We've just got to fight it and I know the\nPresident will say 100 times he is against but he won't do anything with\nCongress.\nS:\nWell, he didn't say that, I was the only person there SO how does McNamara\nknow what I talked to the President about.\nK:\nWell, that's what I would like to know. Well I don't give a damn whether\nMcNamara is right. Ijust want to stress my strong view that we gamble\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nand support it.\nS:\nWell, I don't know about that. I don't know that that is the way to get the\nmoney but let me talk to you about it tomorrow because we are going\nto attempt to take a position on Saturday in Nairobi and then we're going\nto have to have something to say in my speech there on the subject.\nK:\nOk,\nS:\nWe have been working very hard on it as you know. It's just murder.\nVery discouraging. Ok.\nK:\nOk. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nCarl Marcy/HAK\nSeptember 18, 1973/4:15 p.m.\nK:\nHello. Carl, I just wanted to call you now that your vote is over to tell\nyou that I thought that you and the staff really behaved very decently\nand fairly.\nM:\nWell than k you very much. We were only able to dig up one vote against\nyou. You couldn't very well complain about that.\nK:\nBut I know you gave it a great effort so that made it worth while. In all\nseriousness, I want to reaffirm all the things I said while the hearings\nwere going on about the cooperation I want to give.\nM:\nI know there is always a tendency to\nyou know some people say he is\nnot serious and he does it for this and for that reason but I don't think\nit's that way at all.\nK:\nWell, let's give a two month. give it a few months because in the first\nweeks I may be busy but I've set up a meeting with the Chairman for the\n27th and I'd like to get together with you too just as soon as I'm installed.\nMaybe on the 27th or 28th you could just drop by and let's talk informally\non how to do it.\nM:\nAlright. Anytime and I'll keep in touch with Larry so we know\nK:\nI wanted to reaffirm that everything I said I was really deadly serious\nabout and that I look forward to working with you.\nM:\nIt's a good thing to have a Secretary of State period.\nK:\nWell, I hope I live up to it.\nM:\nOK. Thanks.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nGeorge Franklin/HAK\nSeptember 18, 1973/4:27 p.m.\nK:\nHello.\nF:\nHenry, I think it's rather an outrage to push in on a day which must\nbe a very busy one.\nK:\nNo, it's always a pleasure to talk to you.\nF:\nWell it's nice to hear you. I hope things are going well.\nK:\nNo, they're going very well.\nF:\nHenry, the specific thing I called you about is the leaders of our\nJapanese Commission are in town and they have gotten the Prime Minister\nto talk on either October 22 or 23 to the Commission. They were very\nanxious to find out when you are going there and also wanted me to express\nfor them that it might not be on those days because they want the top\nJapanese brass to launch them.\nK:\nWell, my schedule is going to be extremely tight. I have not yet got\na date for going to China and my trip to Japan will depend on that.\nF:\nI see.\nK:\nAnd I just don't know.\nF:\nThere is no way of telling whether it might then be on those days.\nK:\nQuite honestly, it could be on those days but it could be anytime in\nthe last 10 days of October but that depends very largely on the Chinese.\nF:\nWell, I will just tell them I have spoken to you as they asked me.\nK:\nWhy does my visit make any different.\nF:\nTwo reasons. First because they say, and I assume its true, the top\ngovernmental people will be entirely tied up with you if you are there\nand therefore they won't be able to speak at the opening meeting of\nCommission and secondly,\nK:\nI can't believe that they would be there more than an hour at the opening\nmeeting of the\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nF:\nNO, they wouldn't but I think they just felt that their energy and thoughts\nwere entirely on that they wouldn't be able to do it and they also felt\nthat the publicity they might get which they want very much would be\nentirely taken over by your visit.\nK:\nWell, if they want to do it then they ought to do it the first week\nof November. That time I'll certainly not be there.\nI'll just report this\nF:\nYeah. Well, they can't change but\nback.\nK:\nWell, to the degree that I have felxibility I will keep that in mind\nbut it's more likely to be after than before\nat that time\nF:\nWell, that's the most they could possibly ask keeping in mind that\neverytihing else was more or less equal.\nK:\nRight.\nF:\nThank you very much\nK:\nNice to talk to you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nThe President - Mr. Kissinger\n5:05 p. m.\nSeptember 18, 1973\nK: Hello.\nN: Hello. What two or three of the Senators were most helpful to you, would\nyou say?\nK: Javits and Sparkman were truly decent.\nN: How about on the Republican side?\nK: Well, Javits, Percy and Scott. Pearson did nothing.\nN: So Javits and Sparkman were helpful.\nK: Yes.\nN: All right, good. I thought I might have a chance to call a few of them\nthis afternoon.\nK: That would be very kind of you.\nN: OK. Thank you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMcNamara/Kissinger\n9/18/73 - 5:15 p.m.\nK:\nHello.\nM:\nHi, Henry.\nK:\nBob, I don't know whether you talked to George yet.\nM:\nNo, I haven't.\nK:\nI've given him hell today.\nM:\nThat's good. He deserves it.\nK:\nAnd he swears he didn't exactly say what you think he said.\nif\nM:\nI hope not. I've gotten some other reports later today that/he didn't\nsay it exactly that way, that was sure what he meant.\nK:\nWell, you and I are having lunch tomorrow, and I'm going to take up\nthis issue. I consider it of the most vital importance forthe United\nStates that this thing goes through. I don't think we should bargain\nwith Congress before we even submit the bloody thing.\nM:\nHenry, this is the point. It was the most inapt approach to Congress\nthat people in this\nhave heard. I've had several people tell me\nthat today.\nK:\nOf course Patman will say no if you ask him\nM:\nAnd so will the others. With the President impounding funds and not\nputting through the Democrats priorities, what the hell is the\nDemocratic\nK:\nI wanted you to know, Bob, I think you should proceed on the assumption\nthat we will do it.\nM:\nWell, very good, and you can count on my help, Henry. And I think I\ncan deliver some of these people at the proper time and under the\nproper circumstances.\nK:\nWell, I will take it. I'm having lunch with George tomorrow. If I\nfail I will take it to the President in the afternoon.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nM:\nExcellent, excellent, because George is leaving at 8:00 Thursday\nmorning.\nK:\nWell, we can always instruct him by cable.\nM:\nWell, that's very good indeed.\nK:\nAnd I just want you to know that we can fail on that and I don't think\nit's been fully understood and if Congress wants to cut it it's still\nbetter than for the Executive Branch not to have submitted it.\nM:\nAbsolutely, Henry, and in the meantime you understand that if\nCongress cuts it I'm in the deepest of trouble. But in any case in\nthe meantime I can get ahead with Indo-China and a lot of other things\ncan fall into place.\nWell, it can't be\nK:\npermittedto fail and I've already lined up Haig and between the two of us\nwe're going to manage it.\nM:\nThanks very much for calling, Henry.\nK:\nO.K. Bye, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nGen. Haig/Kissinger\n5:40 p.m. - 9/18/73\nK:\nHello.\nH:\nHenry.\nK:\nYes, Al.\nH:\nSay Henry, I wanted to talk to you about this Japanese trip. I just left\nthe boss and I think he'll go along with that but if we don't crystalize it\nfairly soon in his own thinking he won't.\nK:\nBut I don't think it's essential and as far as I'm concerned we can wait\nuntil the middle of October to make up our mind.\nH:\nYeah. Well, I'm trying to get him nailed down.\nK:\nI'm pretty sure that in the light of what is ahead of us next week you\nshouldn't go to Europe this year.\nH:\nWell, I think he agrees with that, too. But he has been opposed to\nJapan, you know. He finally admitted that it would be a bad idea.\nK:\nIngersol is coming back on Friday.\nH:\nO.K.\nK:\nLet me talk it over with him. I'll have a definite recommendation to\nyou by Monday.\nH:\nO.K. Alright, now he committed you today to George Mahon. He\ncommitted you on several things today. Timmons will talk to you about it.\nOne is, he said to Mahon at a later time that you would brief his\nDefense subcommittee and Mahon, probably on Defense. He's agreed\nto see Mahon and his subcommittee here in the White House. He also\nsaid that he wanted, he told me to tell Bill, and I have, that he wanted\nyou Thursday to see a group of Senate Armed Services Committee\npeople. on the Defense thing.\nK:\nI don't think I should do any of it until I'm confirmed.\nH:\nWell, that's it. After you've been voted but he said before you are\nsworn in, but not before you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-2-\nK:\nBut I think if I see any Congressional people I ought to see the House\nForeign Affairs Committee.\nH:\nWell, he said that too. So maybe we could combine them.\nK:\ncan throw me in as a lobbyist on every bloody problem he's\ngot.\nH:\nWell, he did this. He said Henry's the only guy that convinces these\npeople why it's really important to keep our defenses up. And he can't\ndo it because of the Vice President thing and he feels amiss that he's\nnot seeing some people this week.\nK:\nIs the bill up this week?\nH:\nI think in the Senate side, it will be up. And then Mahon, of course,\nwill be the key guy.\nK:\nI know. Mahon I have no trouble seeing, but I think the most useful\nCongressional group I could see this week is the House Foreign Affairs\nCommittee.\nH:\nWell, why don't you talk to Bill? He'll come over and hit you with all\nthis crap and then see how you feel.\nK:\nNow, let me raise another thing with you, Al. That meeting with\nthe President yesterday of George's was a total disaster.\nH:\nWith George Schultz?\nK:\nYeah. Because he hit him on the IDA replenishment, and asked for\nhis agreement to support it in Congress, and of course you know what\nhe'd say? I could have told you, he said he has other, more important\nthings.\nH:\nFor him to cut it.\nK:\nNo, no. He has more important things than to commit himself to a fight\nin Congress on it. Now our whole Indo-China consortium approach\ndepends on that IDA replenishment.\nH:\nSure.\nK:\nAnd I think the position we should take is to, we've already cut it\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n-3-\nfrom 40% to 33%. We should have the executive ask for it. If worse\ncomes to worse, let the Congress cut it.\nH:\nWell, now you explain something to me.\nHe mentioned to me this\nmorning IDA replenishment and I didn't know where it came from.\nK:\nGeorge Schultz raised it with him.\nH:\nHe said I'll bet you a dollar we're making Bob McNamara look good\nand he said that's not the way to do it. And that's where it came from.\nK:\nWell, Al, you know how long we've been pushing for the consortium\napproach to South Vietnam? McNamara now has a number of countries\nlined up to put in several hundred million dollars.\nH:\nHenry, I'll get it done if you will have Brent give me about three\ntalking points and I'll get it back to you.\nK:\nO.K. Good. We'll get it into you. Thank you.\nH:\nO.K.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nSeptember 18, 1973/6.09 p.m. p.\nDobrynin/HAK\nK:\nHello Anatol\nD:\nHello Henry. I'm just calling from N.Y. and my Minister would\nlike to congratulate you on the first round.\nKt\nThank you.\nD:\nAnd I join it.\nK:\nAre you busy putting in resolutions before I get up there.\nD:\nAll resolutions. And a second point you remember we discussed with\nyou about secretal?)\nIs everything alright ?\nK:\nOh fine.\nD:\nAbsolutely airight.\nK:\nWell the same will be on our side.\nD:\nI would like to tell you.\nK:\nWell it will be very conciliatory on our side.\nD:\nDefinitely SO, And what about matters, the last one about the date.\n28th is alright.\nK:\n11:00 on the 28th with the President.\nD:\nthe 28th yes and then lunch or in our Embassy.\nK:\nWhat ever fits better for the foreign minister.\nD:\nYou'll all dinner there.\nK:\nI'll be delighted to come for dinner but If he wants to come go back\nto New York I'll be glad to come for lunch.\nD:\nIn any case I will check with him so there is no problem but he would\nlike to have a quiet, it will not be a large delegation but.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nKt\nNo, let's make it more personal so that we can really talk.\nD:\nWell this I think is at better idea. And then he'll come to you on the\n24th at 8:00.\nK:\n24th at 8:00\nD:\nYou and how many people?\nKt\nWell, that's what I wanted to ask you Anatol. What do you think ?\nD:\nWell it depends on what you really want to discuss maybe make it\nsmall.\nK:\nWell I prefer small size. I don't have any. I'll be in sort of a\ntwilight zone because I won't have moved my staff to the State Dept.\nyet and I'll have to have\nD:\nI understand. How many from your side?\nK:\nWell, two or three on my side, what do you think?\nD:\nI think that's airight. So you and three.\nK:\nI and at most three.\nD:\nSo altogether 3 or 4.\nK:\nI guess I'll have to have Stessel there, the Asst. Secretary but he's\ndiscreet.\nD:\nAlthogether between 3 and 4 yes.\nK:\nThat's right and I suppose Sonnenfeldt and maybe one other but no more\nthan four.\nD:\nTogether. OK that is settled, it's up to Grymoko\nK:\nIf he wants more or less it fine with me too,\nD:\n1 understnad. I think it is settled that's perfectly airight for 11.00\n28th and then at 8:00 with you first meeting.\nK:\nGood and you let me know whether it is lunch or dinner.\nD:\nYes, you have no preference just leave it to him because he may would\nlike to\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nK:\nJust tell him I would be delighted to come for dinner but 1 don't\nwant him to stay if he has\nD:\nIt will be a little early because he leave in the morning.\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nI appreciate your consideration. I will mention to him. I will give\nyou a call tomorrow. Airight\nK:\nAnd If for symbolic reasons you want me to give a lunch for him at\na the State Dept. I'd be glad to do that too.\nD:\nRight.\nK:\nIf instead of coming to your Embassy.\nD:\nOh you\nI'm sure he could do it, there is no problem there. NK I am\nsure he would like It there, I'm sure about it. Airight Henry, I think\neverything is airight.\nK:\nLet's keep everything calm. You know how excitable Scalli is?\nD:\nAnd then I would like a minute before to see you, he asked me to tell\nyou something. Nothing exciting.\nK:\nYou mean alone.\nD:\nYes, over there when we will be there I will just go up\nK:\nAt the U.N.\nD:\nYes, he told me not to come to you not to make it there but there he\njust have dinner with you and I will just.\nK:\nYou and I can sit apart.\nD:\nyes, just to say a few words, lay some kind of background because\nSD I can get to tell you more in a diplomatic way.\nK:\n1 appreciate that. I think that would be helpful.\nD:\nSo you can say in the proper way when you intend to tell him something/\nK:\n1 appreciate that antil think that will be very helpful.\nD:\nOn a personal basis.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nK:\nAnd will you tell the Foreign Minister that he shouldn't pull\nseniority on me ? Since I will never be able to catch up with him.\nD:\nOh no, he will like to send you another telegram now so he said what\nis the proper time. Today, I said.\nK:\nNot yet. Not till the Senate acts.\nD:\nWhen will that be now?\nK:\nProbably on Thursday.\nD:\nOn Thursday. I think its a very\nK:\nThat's fairly automatic.\nD:\nIt's very clear.\nK:\nGive my warm regards to the Foreign Minister and tell him I will\nlook forward to seeing him on Monday.\nD:\nThank you very much Henry. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nTom Korologos/HAK\nSeptember 18, 1973/7:20 p.m.\nK:\nHello.\nK:\nIs it true that you are joining the junta.\nTK: I am joining the junta. That XXXXX\nI wouldn't too much about\nit. I think we can turn some of them around.\nK:\nWell, I just wanted to tell you I've not had a chance really to tahnk you\nfor everything.\nTK: You're great Henry.\nK:\nYou've been very helpful, good humored, decent.\nTK: It's been a pleasure. I want you to know it's all been mine.\nK:\nThere can't be any objection on Friday can there.\nTK: It's a unamious consent agreement that there will be 2 hours of debate\nin the first order of business and Mansfiedl has a tendency to begin\nthe Senate at 10:00 and if someone wants to speak before he tends to\nopen it earlier 9:45 9:30, 9:00. So I assume by 10:00 or perhaps\nearlier. I don't know what they' re going to say for 2 hours frankly\nHenry. We'll have you, I'll be phoning you around 11:30 11:45 and\nathen I had been talking to Parker. They wanted to have a swearing\nin ceremony for 11:30 Friday and now they'll have to reschedule\nthat for the afternoon.\nK:\nWilt it be the afternoon or Saturday.\nTK: David thought it would be Friday afternoon. At least that's what he\ntold me this morning.\nK:\nI think it's going to be Saturday.\nTK: That's up to you and the President. Now there was another plan they\nkicked around for a few minutes Henry, that immediately upon putting\nyour right arm down, you jump into the car and go to the congress to\nconsult. In Scott's back room. The defense bill is up and here is the\nSecretary of State. Gosh, wasn't that fast.\nK:\nOn Saturday.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTK:\nWell that was going to be the thing if we could have done it Friday at\n11:30.\nK:\nAfter I'm confirmed and after they've voted for me, they'll never see\nme again. You think I'm going to horse around. They are the enemy.\nI'm not going to take anymore of ;this.\nTK: (tells Harlow what he says) I agree with you.\nK:\nI walked up to Benson the\nyesterday at the dinner and I said I just\nwant you to know that I'm not going to waste my time being charming\non you. I'm going to get your wife to work on you.\nTK: What'd he say?\nK:\nHe said there is no way you can manage to lose my vote.\nTK: I think we'll have you be noon Friday and I'll call you.\nK:\nMarvelous.\nTK: Did you get the vote count? Did the girls show it to you.\nK:\nI thought it was amusing.\nTK: That'w what the conservatives are passing around. One guy came up\nto Tower and said I want you to vote against Hiss Kissinger and he said\nwhy, and he said he doesn't speak American.\nK:\nI'm passing the word that I have the Oklahoma accent and Harlow has\nthe German accent.\nTK: He does have a German accent.\nK:\nMost people can't tell the different. You tell Harlow him I don't need\nanymore. That's why I don't talk to him.\nTK: You don't know how his recoil mechanism works.\nK:\nRight Tom. Thank you. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n11:15 p.m., September 18, 1973\nP:\nI was just going to say, you know, we've heard many quotes in this\nplace from undeserving people but boy this clown --\nK:\nThat was an eloquent --\nP:\nThere hasn't been a better one, has there?\nK:\nNo.\nP:\nIt was from the heart too. He meant it.\nK:\nWhat I will say in his defense, Mr. President, is he said this in the\nmiddle of July when things looked very tough.\nP:\nI know and he told me tonight about the fact that NBC didn't use it then.\nK:\nThat's right.\nP:\nAnd he was furious at them. So here's a Liberal, a real liberal.\nYou know, he went over our foreign policy like the Senate ought to and\nthe columnists and the rest.\nK:\nThat's right. And that's what most foreigners think, Mr. President.\nP:\nAnd that's what he said, didn't he? It was really a beautiful toast.\nK:\nIt was really moving.\nP:\nBut the way he went in, went over the whole thing, what had happened\nand the rest. He said about how history would record and the rest.\nThat's what really drives our Libs up the wall because here is a foreign\nliberal speaking very eloquently. They know it's true but they can't\nbear to admit it.\nK:\nAnd that's why they keep nitpicking away at the fringes of it but not\nin any way that will survive six months much less six years.\nP:\nWell, I'm glad it came around that we had him now.\nK:\nActually, it's a better time\nP:\nAnd also, he was very good before the Foreign Relations Committee\nand I want to be damn forthcoming with him, whatever we can do.\nThat harbor thing appeals to me. If there's anything we can do , get\nthe Navy to do something there rather than some other place.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n2\nK:\nRight. And what he's particularly interested in, which you might\nmention to him, is the possibility of getting some arms into his hands\nthrough Iran.\nP:\nWell, of course.\nK:\nAnd you might tell him that we will do our very best and that we are\ngoing to send Helms there to see what can be done.\nP:\nYeah, we told him that today, that Helms is coming.\nK:\nYeah, but he had some doubt whether we are actually going to see what\nwe can do about getting the arms into his hands.\nP:\nWe sure as hell are going to do it. We must. But I want to follow\nthrough on that other item too and all up and down the line.\nK:\nRight.\nP:\nThis idea of, you know, playing to India. Like Mrs. Ghandi is now\nmaking sweet noises but she doesn't mean it and you know she doesn't\nmean it. And we are just going to play a little hard to get.\nK:\nAbsolutely!\nP:\nA little hard to get. He went over tonight the fact, he said if when she\nhad been here and I told him that I thought it was a mistake how\nKeating had advised us to treat herewell\nhe\nsaid\nif\nwe\nhad\ntreated\nher rough then, the war might never have happened.\nK:\nI think we made a mistake. Everyone told us -- all our advisers told\nus that she was the leader of the peace party and therefore we had to\nstrengthen her.\nP:\nI know, I know. But you remember, I had great doubts.\nK:\nYou had great doubts.\nP:\nBut you remember that. And then you remember that terrible toast that\nshe made. She alluded to 00 as he said in his remarks this morning --\nabout moralism and the rest. Dammit, you know she's smarter than\nshe is.\nK:\nWell, it isn't just that, Mr. President. You made an especially\ngraceful toast to her on that event.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nThe President/Mr. Kissinger\n3\nP:\nI know. I was treating her as a leader rather than a woman and all\nthat. As a leader in her own right rather than the daughter of a\nleader and then she just came on with that moralistic lecture. It was\nunbelievable.\nK:\nThat's right. It was awful.\nP:\nAlmost like the Mexicans, and less reason.\nK:\n(laughs) Well, the Mexican was using you to give his farewell address\nto get a little publicity for himself.\nP:\nBut my point is, they talk about tilting to Pakistan, we're going to do\nmore of it. We're going to do it in order to put it to -- first, to show\nup the Chinese to keep the Indians in line and let the Russians know that\nthey aren't to screw around down there.\nK:\nI thought it was a beautiful touch.\nP:\nFine, Henry. Thank you.\nK:\nThank you, Mr. President.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified."
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