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    "ocrText": "TELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n5:32 p.m., May 3, 1972\nK:\nAnatol, how are you?\nD:\nI think I could tell you by telephone. You remember about this\ntender business?\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nAnd so I just give this on the phone, for your own information.\nFirst, about this tender. Tender, according to our information,\nthat your military people are mistaken in the sense that this is\nnot a tender base but it is a training ship with Naval cadets and\nhas nothing to do with submarines at all.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nSo this is the thing they asked me to tell you. This is not true; what\nyou received from your military end. This is not a base; not a\ntender but is a training ship with Naval cadets and has nothing to\ndo with any submarines.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nAnd within a few days this ship will leave Cuba.\nK:\nYeah.\nD:\nOn atomic submarines --\nK:\nIt isn't atomic; it has ballistic missiles.\nD:\nOh, this one. Probably this was mistaken. This says this is not\natomic but she is leaving on the 6th of May from Cuba.\nK:\nOkay.\nD:\nSo this is the way I would like to tell you.\nK:\nThank you.\nD:\nThis is from Moscow.\nK:\nWell, I appreciate it and I appreciate the spirit in which this\ncommunication is made.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 2 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n5:32 p. m., May 3, 1972\nD:\nThis submarine is leaving on the 6th, day after tomorrow. And\nas for Tender; there is no tender at all.\nK:\nWell, perhaps if it weren't for our other problem everything would\nbe going along just as it should.\nD:\nYes; I agree with you. This is really -- what a pity, I should say.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nSo this is really what I have to tell you privately.\nK:\nWell, I appreciate it and I will communicate it immediately to the\nPresident.\nD:\nSo this is the situation and they will leave within two days.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nDay after tomorrow; 1:15.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nBye, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n4:53 p.m., May 5, 1972\nD:\nYes, Henry.\nK:\nAnatol, there was just one point about our conversation that I didn't\nwant to mislead your people about.\nD:\nYeah.\nK:\nThat had to do with your comment that the President was angry when\nhe sent that letter.\nD:\nYeah.\nK:\nWell, he may -- you ought to treat this letter as a cold deliberate\none.\nD:\nCold, yeah. I see.\nK:\nNow it's up to you what you do with it and we're not asking for any\nparticular --\nD:\nThis was my personal comment. I didn't really mention to Moscow\nK:\nOkay. Well, you're free to have any judgment you want; I'm not\ngoing debate it.\nD:\nI just mentioned it to you really. This was my impression; I didn't\nmake any comment on this because it's really subjective, you see,\nand I don't like to make a very personal subjective feeling.\nK:\nNo; it was carrying to the attention of your leaders what he thought\nthe situation then was.\nD:\nNo, I understand. No, I mean I don't like to send my own feelings.\nThat's why I didn't mention it to Moscow.\nK:\nOkay, fine. Well, as long as they treat it on its --\nD:\nNo, no; I understand. So we just leave it --\nK:\nThere's no need for you to make any additional comments.\nD:\nNo, no.\nK:\nAnd we're not asking for any particular thing.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 2 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n4:53 p.m., May 5, 1972\nD:\nNo, no; I understand but you have to understand too I give comments\nto Moscow.\nK:\nOkay, fine. As long as there is no misunderstanding there.\nD:\nNo, no; it's clear.\nK:\nAnd Ziegler, I think, will deal with you on the press question in\na positive sense; I've had a talk with him.\nD:\nOh, okay.\nK:\nAre you going to be at that reception tonight to which he's going?\nD:\nI will be there for a half an hour really.\nK:\nI think he will talk to whoever his opposite number is and I think\nthey'll work it out.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nOkay, bye, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Amb. Dobrynin\n12:15 p.m. May 6, 1972\nK: Hello.\nD: Hello, Henry.\nK. Antatoliy, how are you? You called me yesterday.\nD: Oh, yes, I didn, but you were somewhere.\nK: I was in New York.\nD: In the north. I called because Gromyko asked me to tell you\nthat he asked me to tell you that we have given all the necessary\ninstructions to our delegation in\nto discuss the\non\nthe left and on the sea or\nExactly to discuss with you\nin Moscow and later on you--give us your paper which is really a\nconfirmation to the agreement which is there you know the one I\ngave you. He would just like me to confirm to you and the President\nthat we gave instruction according to what we discuss in Moscow--\nand you mentioned there were two points--NATO business and then\nfind a way not to mention\nin the agreement, but he said\nthat we are not going to insist to put into the agreement the two\npoints you mentioned. Two points more, I just received the text;\nI can't really tell if it is really any different or not. Now those\nyou remember you discussed in Moscow we were given to you, now\nMr. Gromyko sends me the final text as it were the report to the\ngovernment. I would like to send it to you today, so you can check it.\nHAK: Now I take it the text is as how you think we have agreed upon.\nD: My impression is that they added something. That's why I don't\nknow--that is why I would like to check it out and I am going to\ncheck it myself; that is why I didn't call you because I really didn't\nhave a chance to look it through. I presume it is practically the same.\nHAK: Why don't you send it to me. That would be helpful. Two things\nmore: (1) we are bringing back one of the people who was traveling\nwith David and he will settle the scientific matter with you next week,\nso you can inform Gromyko that twe don't expect any difficulty. Let him\ncome back here and then after the summit we could send David to Moscow\nto work out whatever details there are. This will be settled. Now a\ncomplex matter. (2) Remember on the last day Breshnev raised the\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 2\nMr. Kissinger/Amb. Dobrynin\n12:05 p.m. Page 2\nissue of nuclear weapons on renunciation.\nD: Oh yes, made a proposal to you.\nHAK: Now I raised some considerations we had--we will try to\nwork something out which I could show you on Thursday. Let's\nsay Thursday definitely.\nD: He asked me what was the position.\nHAK: Also we would like to look at something you draft without\nany commitment.\nD: You will make you own suggestion\nHAK: Must take into account, must not sound as though it authorizes\na nuclear attack on other countries and must not sound and must take\ninto account that an attack on allies, even if it isn't nuclear we can't\nhave a proposition that says if you attack Europe with conventional\nweapons we then cannot use nuclear weapons.\nD: I understand this.\nHAK: If we can take tare of these two concerns, we would at least\nbe interested to look at it.\nD: On Thursday, I will try to get from Moscow the\nHAK: Right.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon; 6 May 72;4:05 p.m.\n\"D\"/Dr. Kissinger\nD: I received an answer of the last letter of the President and I could\ncome there if you wish and would like to discuss, I will come to you\nimmediately. Now I have a gathering here at the Embassy.\nK: My experience with you has been whenever you don't bring it yourself\nit's highly unpleasant.\nD: Oh, no, no. OK. If you should put away one hour I will come myself.\nK: No, I thing it would be actually quite useful if you would send it with\nVorontsov.\nD: No, No, now at 4:00 clock we have a national holiday meeting at\nthe Embassy, and I am very important here. So if you could wait one\nhour I will be there too. It will be no problem really.\nK: Is Vorontsov coming anyway.\nD: No, No, he will not come; then I will come. I will bring it around\n5:00 or 5:30, all right?\nK: Uh, OK.\nD: 5:30 then.\nK: 5:30 in the Map Room.\nD: In the Map Room. Or maybe 5:15.\nK: Let's make it 5:15. Or you can come to my office. Come to my office.\nD: No, it will be better in the Map Room because the guards know and there\nwill be no difficulty and your\nthey don't know me.\nK: OK. Map Room.\nD: 5:15. And I will being this and the first one which we just got is the\nfundamentals and SO on.\nK: Oh, good, fine.\nD: OK so thank you again., Goodbye\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAmb. D.\n5/7/72 5:50 p.m.\nK: Hello.\nD: Hello Henry.\nK: How are you?\nD: You shouldn't work on Sunday really. I hoped yesterday seeing you\nin the weekend suit that you were going somewhere but\nK: That's why I'm so mad at your allies.\nD: (laughs) Well I think you should relax at least on Sunday they you will\nbe not mad at them.\nK: Listen I was going to see the hockey Stanley Cup final today.\nD: Today?\nK: That's right.\nD: You mean ice hockey?\nK: Ice hockey.\nD: You are fond of ice hockey?\nK: Yeah, I like ice hockey.\nD: Ah, because I like it too.\nK: And I like the way your team plays; I like a good passing team.\nD: Yeah, well they are quite good I should say.\nK: They are very good at passing.\nD: Because they learned something from Canadian I should say.\nK: Yeah, but they don't play as rough; they play more skillfully/ than the\nCanadians.\nD: Yes, this is true, but they begin to learn how to play rough too but using\nskill.\nK: I have no doubt\nno one will ever doubt Russian ability to be tough.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAmb. D\n5/7/72 5:50 p.m. p. 2\nD: No, because when they\nI think it was sever al years ago when the\nfirst time met with the Canadians they lost. And they lost all because of\nCanadian was so rough and ours was so gentlemanly. Our coach said look here,\nyou are not girls; you are men, So you have to learn how to play.\nK: Anatol, I called you to tell you\nI've had some information from\nGermany.\nD: Yes, which is what?\nK: And it looks now they are moving towards a compromise and Barzel\nis now you know this is confidential\nD: Yes, I understand.\nK: But Barzel now looks as if he is going to make a compromise.\nD: You\ntbday Henry?\nK: I've yeah received it a little while ago.\nD:\nyour Secretary to make some speeches there.\nYou summon\nhim here.\nK: You know I get lonely without him after a while.\nD: This is my impression too\nK: I couldn't stand all the publicity he was getting.\nD: He receives more now because out of the country looks like White\nHouse couldn't make a decision without him. He is the top man in this\nbusiness.\nK: That's really impressive. That was the real purpose.\nD: That was my impression too. Okay.\nK: Okay, am I going to see you tonight?\nD: Tonight? No, tonight no.\nK: You not going to that thing.\nD: Because at 8:00 or 8:30 it's Patolichev.\nK: Oh Patolichev. I will try to come to your lunch tomorrow.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAmb. D.\n5/7/72 5:50 p.m. p. 3\nD: If it's possible it would be very nice really. 1:15.\nK: 1:15 right. I may not be able to stay.\nD: No, really I understand.\nK: But I'll come by for a bit, just for the caviar.\nD: All right.\nK: Does Patolichev speak English.\nD: No, but I will help you.\nQ: Good.\nD: I think you understand Russian now after four days with us.\nK: You just give me the document and I'll sign it.\nD: Oh, oh. I know you. You look at the document and then you have\nseveral small amendments.\nK: No, no, I am easy to get along with.\nD: You have a chance to look at this document -- oh I am sure you have not.\nK: No, I have not.\nWe'll talk it over on Thursday\n.\nD: Okay Henry, until tomorrow.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nMr. Kissinger/Ambassador Dobrynin\n10:09 a. m., May 9, 1972\nK:\nHello.\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nAnatoliy, how are you?\nD:\nThank you.\nK:\nI just wanted to tell you I have just talked to Bahr and we've\nalso been in touch with Barzel, and I think we can assure now that the\ntreaty will be ratified by tomorrow evening.\nD:\nThey are beginning today and tomorrow. Two days, yes?\nK:\nThat's rig ht. Formally, only\nstarting\ntomorrow.\nD:\nTomorrow, but how could they be ratified tomorrow?\nK:\nWell, at any rate, I don't know whether they start today. All\nI know is that our understanding now is that due to our joint efforts, it's\nnow worked out so that by tomorrow evening the treaties will be ratified.\nD:\nTomorrow evening?\nK:\nBy tomorrow evening.\nD:\nIt's from both, then, Bahr and Barzel.\nK:\nThat's correct.\njoint\nD:\nYou don't know the details. Did they work out the\nK:\nWell, they worked out a joint declaration which we have urged\nBarzel to accept, and they are taking it up with Falin. And my understanding\nis that this will be acceptable.\nD:\nThat it will be acceptable. I see. Okay; thank you.\nK:\nI wanted you to know that at least in areas outside Southeast Asia,\nwe have continued to do business as we promised.\nyou\nD:\nOkay. Thank you, Henry. I will be in touch with, I'm sure.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nMr. Kissinger/Ambassador Dobrynin\n10:09 a. m., May 9, 1972\n-2-\nK:\nI don't think so.\nD:\nNo, I think.\nK:\nYou think there's going to be a message?\nD:\nI think there will be a message or statement.\nK:\nNo, I'm sure. I was pulling your leg.\nD:\nYeah; I understand. You picked out a day which is really a\nnational holiday in Russia.\nK:\nI'll hear from you. There's no question.\nD:\nWell, bye-bye. I'll be in touch with you.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n5:00 p.m., May 11, 1972\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nAnatol.\nD:\nFirst of all, thank you very much for very nice photo.\nK:\nThey really came out very well, didn't they?\nD:\nI really like them. It's a very nice background and of course (action\npictures) are rather nice.\nK:\nI really think they are some of the best pictures that he has taken.\nD:\nI agree with you completely. You didn't send me at least your signature\njust for my own but next time. You needn't write an inscription but\nsimply --\nK:\nNo, no; I will do it on Monday when we meet. Will you bring one of\nthem along and I will or bring all of them along.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nAll I wanted to do is really minor is to officially confirm on behalf\nof the President what I told you about our actions.\nD:\nOh, I see. Fine. The three bodies you mentioned.\nK:\nYeah, the three points.\nD:\nThree points. And really during this meeting if --\nK:\nI will give you on Monday certain limitations we will observe during\nthe meeting.\nD:\nWell, this is a point too.\nK:\nWe are working those out and the only reason I didn't give them to you\ntoday\nD:\nI understand. But as a hint I\nK:\nBut you can tell your leaders that on Monday I will inform you of\ncertain limitations.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n2\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n5:00 p.m., May 11, 1972\nD:\nIt's not only on this sheet but -\nK:\nNo, no; I understand. I understand fully and that is our intention.\nD:\nOkay. And then I look in the communique, you mentioned about\ninvitation to leaders who I interpret as the three top men in my\ngovernment. I mean, for them.\nK:\nYes, but\nD:\nYou say there is a limitation. I am just reading from your text.\nYou said about &\nK:\nYes. You can interpret it but it doesn't -- Let me put it this way,\nAnatol, we are happy to have it interpreted this way but if\nMr. Brezhnev would prefer to come alone --\nD:\nNo, no; I understand. Two other men are mentioned too.\nK:\nYou can put it in whichever way you think it would be best received.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nWe will be delighted to receive all three of them.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nBut if the other solution is better, that's also fine.\nD:\nOkay. So unless there is something else, until Monday then.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nBye, bye.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:15 a. m., May 12, 1972\nK:\nHello.\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nAnatol.\nD:\nWhat was the result of yesterday's game?\nK:\nOh, New York lost 3-0.\nD:\nWere you there?\nK:\nYeah, I went there.\nD:\nSo you didn't really support them very much. I watched you on\nthe television.\nK:\nWas I on television?\nD:\nOf course, you were. And you were sitting rather passively\nwithout running out and SO on. Usually, the fans jump out and show\ntheir emotions. But even on the game, you don't want to shown any\nemotions.\nK:\nWell, not at the game -- afterwards.\nD:\nWell, I think during the game radio fans show their emotions.\nK:\nWell, I really didn't have a team; I was vaguely for New York\nbut not wildly so.\nD:\nOh, if was vaguely, then I understand. So you were just looking\nfor thewnner.\nK:\nBesides, my team was losing, so there wasn't much occasion to show emotion.\nD:\nSo, you are looking for winners is my impression.\nK:\nYeah, well, it's always better to win than to lose.\nD:\nYes, exactly. Well, Henry, I received this telegram from Moscow.\nVery shortly we will give you some drafts of papers, so to speak, on certain\nquestion of Summit.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:15 a. m., May 12, 1972\n- 2 -\nK:\nLike what?\nD:\nI don't have it here yet. I would like you to know today or\nSaturday; otherwise, you will go somewhere very far.\nK:\nAre they substantive or technical?\nD:\nNo, I think they are on substance.\nK:\nOn substance.\nD:\nIt says here in the telegram to tell you that what we will send\ndraft on certain questions or problems. Problems which are really\non agenda.\nK:\nOh, I see, okay. Good.\nD:\nThis is the point. The only thing I would like you to know --\none additional point, we would like and expect that you will not really\nuse it as a publicity stunt. Just in a serious way for preparation for\nthe Summit.\nK:\nUse what as a publicity stunt.\nD:\nWell, the very fact that I will give you some drafts and so on.\nK:\nYeah, but, Anatoliy, I have never discussed anything you\ndiscuss with me.\nD:\nNo, no, no -- I know but this really is from Moscow. It does\nnot come from me. You understand what I mean.\nK:\nYou can be absolutely sure, Anatol, I don't think anybody even\nknows\nD:\nYou see, this was sent straight to me. I do understand that,\nbut\nK:\nI have told nobody that we have had a response from Brezhnev.\nD:\nI think that this is a point.\nK:\nBecause I then have to explain, if there is a response, whether\nthat it isn't strong or it is strong.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n- 3 -\n11:15 a. m., May 12, 1972\nD:\nSometimes the White House has\nK:\nBut, Anatol, in our relationship I have never made the slightest\nleak.\nD:\nAgreed. This is really what I am telling because they sent it\nto me from Moscow.\nK:\nYou tell your people in Moscow that anything that comes through\nyour channel we need no special admonition on. We have never\nthere will never be the slightest hint that something is coming. In fact,\nno one even knows what I get or that I get anything.\nD:\nI understand. But I am telling you what they asked me to tell.\nI don't need any specific assurances but they asked me to do so. They\nwant me to do it, so I'm telling you.\nK:\nAll right. You give them the assurance, but you tell them it was\nan unnecessary admonition.\nD:\nNo, no. I did what I was told, but they would like me just to\nmention that this is coming; it's not yet come here, but I want you to\nknow before hand. They don't say anything about the document itself,\non this they absolutely do not worry, but the general effect\nK:\nLook how we handled the SALT announcement. You would have\nthought there was practically nothing going on.\nD:\nHenry, I repeat it's not --\nK:\nAll right, I understand. At any rate, neither the fact of the\ncommunication nor the œntents will be revealed to anybody except the\nPresident.\nD:\nYes, this is it\nthe effect of the communication not the\nsubstance because on this they are sure from Moscow definitely.\nK:\nYeah, but they can also be sure about the facts.\nD:\nOkay. I will mention\nI have your assurances. I do not\nneed myself but --\nK:\nYou give them immediate assurances and tell them that no\ncommunication through your channel is ever revealed to anybody.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 4 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:15 a. m., May 12, 1972\nD:\nOkay, Henry. Will you be tomorrow or day after tomorrow just for\nme where I could reach you?\nK:\nI'll be here in Washington.\nD:\nIn Washington. You won't go anywhere?\nK:\nNo.\nD:\nThrough your telephone.\nK:\nBut you can reach me through my telephone anyway even if I were\naway but I will be here.\nD:\nWithin the Washington area.\nK:\nIn Washington itself.\nD:\nItself, fine.\nK:\nBut that message will come today, won't it?\nD:\nMaybe today, maybe tomorrow. They didn't say -- they used a\nRussian word which could be translated either today or tomorrow.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nThis is so confusing\n....\nit could be today or tomorrow.\nK:\nYeah. And what it is is concerning some substantive or other aspects\nof the summit?\nD:\nYes. This is only on our drafts on certain problems\nsummit.\nK:\nOh, fine, good.\nD:\nYou understand that your message in general. (laughter)\nK:\nOh, Anatol, I'm not totally stupid.\nD:\nNo, you are not. This is a well-known fact not only to me it was\nlong ago known but I speak about the general public.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 5 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:15 a.m., May 12, 1972\nK:\nTwo other things, Anatol, the first is we are -- this is a minor thing\nyou remember we talked about press announcements of the various\nagreements?\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nI gave you that schedule yesterday.\nD:\nYes. I already sent it to Moscow.\nK:\nNo, no; fine. I just want you to know what I forgot to tell you yesterday.\nWe agreed to joint briefings.\nD:\nOh, to the joint briefings. Yes, I will put this on.\nK:\nSo that we could do it jointly and the way we do it, except for the very\nimportant ones, --\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nZiegler would brief on our side and whoever on your side --\nD:\nI don't know yet.\nK:\nBut at any rate, the way we should do that, Anatol, is for you and me\nto get together.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nAnd we will then agree. Ziegler will say exactly what we tell him.\nD:\nOkay, I understand.\nK:\nSo you and I can work it out and there will be no problem.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nOn SALT and on the final principles, I would do the briefing.\nD:\nOkay. I think it is most important.\nK:\nThose two, on the principles and on the communique and on SALT, I\nwill do the briefing.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 6 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:15 a. m. , May 12, 1972\nD:\nSo I will say either Ziegler or you on most important items.\nK:\nRight. And in any event, if it's Ziegler, you and I will work out ahead\nof time what he will say. He never deviates from it.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nNow one more thing, Anatol, on this. We are thinking now very\nseriously of a public statement on Monday.\nD:\nOn What\nK:\nOn the German thing.\nD:\nOh, I think it's --\nK:\nThat will have the maximum effect.\nD:\nOh, I think it's very\n.\nCould I send this or are you just thinking?\nBetter not to make disappointment. Sorry I really ask you blunt question.\nIf you are really so, I will send them but if you change your mind - -\nK:\nLet me say, you know, if there is no, which I don't anticipate, no stop\naggravation of this situation.\nD:\nOh, I don't think -- I think for our part could say this, whether you do\nor not. Don't you think so?\nK:\nWhat?\nD:\nAbout whether it will be an aggravation or not.\nK:\nWhat do you mean we can say?\nD:\nNo, I think we could judge -- I think you and me could fairly say whether\nthere would be aggravation or will not be before Monday.\nK:\nYeah. My impression is there will not be.\nD:\nYou mean about [Israel] and Bonn?\nK:\nNo, no; I mean in the overall world situation.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 7 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:15 a. m. , May 12, 1972\nD:\nOh, well, this is what I think is my impression.\n...\nSo if your\nimpression is the same, so I think we are on the same ground.\nK:\nRight. So I just wanted to tell you that. In that framework I think you\nare pretty safe in assuming it.\nD:\nYeah. It would be White House statement?\nK:\nA WHite House statement.\nD:\nA special statement?\nK:\nWell, we've planned it in answer to a question.\nD:\nOkay, an answer to a question.\nK:\nAnd I will work that out and give it to you Monday morning.\nD:\nOkay. I think it's fair enough and good enough.\nK:\nOkay.\nD:\nOkay, I'll be in touch with you. Please don't go too far.\nK:\nNo, I'll be here.\nD:\n(laughter)\nK:\nAnatol, how can you and I be separated?\nD:\nNo, no, no. This is my impression too; it's unbelievable.\nK:\nYou and I, when this thing is over, we are going to have one purely\nsocial evening with not one word of business.\nD:\nOkay, I'll get prepared.\nK:\nWe have earned it.\nD:\nYou see, only one of your respectable newspaper men after you -- when\nyou come back here. You remember on this\nwhen we\nworked together. After this, on those\n.\nK:\nOh, yes.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 8 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:15 a. m., May 12, 1972\nD:\nHe asked me, \"Well, Mr. Ambassador, you heard Johnson speak\nwith Kennedy all night SO what you are talking about?\" I said, \"We\nwent to sleep.\" And he couldn't believe it really; that an Ambassador\ndidn't even have time with such a man and not to talk with him all the\nwhole night.\nK:\n(laughter)\nD:\nHe couldn't really believe it. So you see even in this case, not\neverything is believable but on this occasion I agree, not a word.\nK:\nNo.\nD:\nNo politics.\nK:\nExactly. We will do it.\nD:\nOkay. I'll be in touch with you.\nK:\nGood, Anatol..\nD:\nBye, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n2:40 p.m. - 5/13/72\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nAnatol.\nD:\nI had really hoped for a nice quiet weekend with my wife.\nK:\nWell, I don't know, you're just checking up on me.\nD:\nI was checking with the Embassy. I am far from the Embassy.\nK:\nOh really.\nD:\n(The place where he is.)\nK:\nOh really. I thought you were with Harriman here again.\nD:\nHe said that he is going to continue to support his candidate.\nK:\nOh really?\nD:\nYes, he said\ncan ask somebody else too. Some special party\nI don't know and have a dinner or reception - something along those\nlines. The day before yesterday I guess.\nK:\nAnatol, I just had two minor things. First, I told the - The President\nisn't going to Key Biscayne but he'll be in Camp David so if on Thursday\nyou wanted to come up to Camp David with me, we could have a relaxed\nday before we all go off.\nD:\nI think that's all right. But then I have to leave around 6:00. The\nplane is leaving around 6 o'clock from Dulles Airport.\nK:\nWell, we'll get you back. We'll helicopter you. In fact, I have to be\nback by 6 o'clock.\nD:\nI should be home about 4 o'clock so I can get my luggage and go back\nthere.\nK:\nOk. What we could do and I'll leave it up to you. We can either go up\nin the evening and sleep there or we could go up first thing in the\nmorning, whichever you prefer.\nD:\nI will tell you on Monday, all right?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nNo hurry. I just want you to know and then you can have half-an-hour\nwith the President too.\nD:\nYes, I think that's very nice.\nK:\nAnd we can have a relaxed time there - walk and relax. Now on this\npress business. We have to notify these people and I wonder if we\ncan settle it by Monday.\nD:\nI receive today just before leaving so probably they will call you today.\nOr not you, Ziegler. It was\ninstructions.\nof course we were\nin touch and they send us a figure around 100 or 70 or something. You\nsee it corresponds to what Ziegler wanted.\nK:\nAll right.\nD:\nAnd rather they said plus an additional 60 and this wasn't quite clear\nfor me - what was additional?\nK:\nIf we could settle on 170 plus 64 technicians, then it's all done.\nD:\nI will try to find out over the weekend whether they include them because\nif it's a new one after them, then everything is settled because\nalready OK for 65.\nK:\nThe easiest for us would be 170 plus 64; the next best thing would be\nthe figure of 200, but if we can do it at 170 plus 64 it will be good.\nD:\nIt will be the best, of course. So I'll have to check on this and tell\nyou on Monday.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nThis\nthing I don't know whether you want to know because\nwhen I was leaving I saw there was a telegram. I didn't read the whole\nthing but the beginning I did. It was saying that they are asking me to\ncome to you and inform you as a member of\nand leave instruc-\ntions which was sent to Mr. Semenov.\nK:\nOh, about the deferral?\nD:\nI cannot tell you quite but it said they try to cover all\nsome\ndisagreement so they are giving you instruction. Some of them may\nbe for some other discussion but just for you to know so when do you\nfeel I could come to you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nK:\nI'll be in the office for a couple of hours in the morning.\nD:\nIn the morning?\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nSo around 11 or 10, what do you think?\nK:\nHow about 9:30? Or is that too early for you?\nD:\nI think it's early. Or are you going away?\nAbout 10:00, all right?\nK:\n10:00. Ok, come by at 10:00.\nD:\nOK, and I will tell them as of now I.\nK:\nAnd I have an oral note for you which just confirms what I told you\nabout the restrictions that we discussed yesterday.\nD:\nOh yes.\nK:\nIn response to your oral note.\nD:\nI understand.\nK:\nIt confirms those restrictions but it tells you what I have already\ntold you.\nAnd with respect to this one activity we can't really do\nanything.\nD:\nOK, you'll tell me tomorrow.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nSo tomorrow then at 10 o'clock. We already fix it, all right?\nK:\nGood. Fine.\nD:\nWhere I have to go - to the usual place or to your office.\nK:\nOh, come to my office.\nD:\nNorthwest gate.\nK:\nWell, would you rather come to the Map Room?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n4\nD:\nMap Room is of course easy, because they know me there. Here\nthey don't and they always ask me all those questions.\nK:\nOK, Anatol, don't you think it's a little funny that the Soviet Ambassador\ncan just walk into the Mansion more easily than into the office?\nD:\nI have no problem at all because they know me by face.\nK:\nAlso I'm working on that telephone problem. It has a lot of advantages.\nD:\nYes, first I mentioned it as a joke, but then I think it's a\nK:\nI'm looking into it. I won't be able to get an answer until next week.\nD:\nOK, So tomorrow morning at 10:00 'clock.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nOK, Bye, Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n11:12 a.m. - 5/15/72\nD:\nI have several questions. I don't know whether to\nor\nthe importance, but what about you? You mentioned about a\nK:\nWell I will have an answer for you this afternoon. first of all on\nthat note you gave me yesterday.\nD:\nI see. Let's make it around 5:00, all right?\nK:\nAll right, 5 o'clock.\nD:\nSo if I\nI will give it to you.\nK:\nDo you have anything for me?\nD:\nI have several small things, but I will tell some of them. First\nabout this - I receive from Moscow that they agree with you\non this incident on the sea should be signed now only clarified or\nin Washington. And the official signing will be in Moscow.\nThey agree with this proposal.\nK:\nRight, assuming they can come to an agreement.\nD:\nOh, of course, this is the point.\nK:\nRight. I'll talk to you about that this evening.\nD:\nAt 5 o'clock.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nAll right. In this case it will be in Moscow. Who will sign from\nyour side?\nK:\nWell we can have Rogers, or we can have\nD:\nThis is an\nincident or you think it's on the level of the Foreign\nMinister's?\nK:\nOh, no, probably not. We'll think it over.\nD:\nYou 'll think it over. Then the second one - we agreed with all the\nproposals.\ndiscussions which have taken place in Moscow\nabout this environment.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nOh good.\nD:\nSo I just received that it's approved, but again Moscow asks you\non behalf of the President on what level it should be signed? We\ndon't know. We approved your draft but they are prepared to sign\nbut on what level they don't know yet. So if you could find out.\nK:\nAll right. I'll try to get that.\nD:\nOn what level.\nK:\nHave you any opinion?\nD:\nReally I don't have any opinion. In our case it will be easy because\nwe can find anyone in Moscow.\nK:\nOur problem is that we only have three people there - the Ambassador,\nThe President or the Secretary of State.\nD:\nMaybe on the level of Ambassador.\nK:\nI think so.\nD:\nOK, once more we will go through\non that.\nK:\nI will have for you this afternoon an answer to that message you sent\nover yesterday and if I don't have anything on the Middle East by\n5 'clock I'll have it first thing in the morning.\nD:\nAnd on this ratification business you promised to say something about\nit.\nK:\nThat's right. We'll do it either today or tomorrow. I will give you the text\nD:\nYes, and then the last one on this draft agreement on scientific and\ntechnical corporations. Today I receive practically an agreement to\nwhat you propose. You are not involved directly but\nK:\nThat's right. I know what you mean.\nD:\nto David. So my counselor will go to the.\nand explain\nthat we accept it. That's for your own information, Henry. If it's\nnecessary we are prepared to sign it at the summit meeting. The\nwhole draft, really, not only the statement but the draft proposed\nby you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nSo you just tell the\nbreak\nK:\nIt's hard for us to kalxe up a negotiation in which you agree with\nour draft, isn't it?\nD:\nAll right.\nK:\nI will think of a way of showing that you're really intransigent.\nYou see, you're making it tough.\nD:\nI try to prevent it. I knew your strategy that's why I try to prevent it.\nTo put you in a position the\nwill feel it's really impossible\nto agree with everything you said. So now I am telling them - Look\nhere I am prepared\nSo five o'clock.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nThe usual place.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nBye-bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n9:40 a.m.\n-\n9/16/72\nK:\nAnatol, how are you?\nD:\nI would like to check with you one question. You remember we -\nyesterday you gave me a list of preliminary places (?) of signing\nand announcements. Two things were missing really and first\nabout who will sign from your side - I guess the President but I\nwould like to check really\nabout the\nwhich will be\ndiscussed in Moscow.\nK:\nWe had left it open. Do you think they should be signed or just\npromulgated?\nD:\nNo, we think it's better to be signed.\nK:\nThe President, OK. And in case\nD:\nThe President, OK. And in case\nK:\nUnless you and I get to sign something.\nD:\nWell, could we\nof our own and then\nK:\nWe will have a big signing ceremony.\nD:\nExactly. And the second.\nfor some kind of signing -\nyou remember what the\ntold you about neutral things.\nSo you do it I guess on the same level.\nK:\nI would think so but I don't know whether we can get that completed\nnext week.\nD:\nNo, no, I understand but in that case.\nK:\nIn that case but as I told you we could still, if we do it later,\narrange a ceremony by satellite.\nD:\nOh yes, yes, let's try it. It's a nice idea. You have quite an\nimagination. I always admire you.\nK:\nBut you know I think it would be a nice continuation.\nD:\nNo, no, I wasn't joking. I am just telling you seriously. That's\na good idea. Well, we can talk about it - maybe later on.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nAt any rate, that too would be at the Presidential level.\nD:\nI understand. OK.\nK:\nI will call you later in a couple of hours.\nD:\nI could drop around 4 o' clock if you can make it.\nK:\nRight. Let me see whether I can make it then. I'll call you\nbefore noon.\nD:\nOK.\nK:\nGood. Bye. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nD\n5/16/72 2:45 p.m.\nD:\nbig surprise you have.\nK: No, no, nothing affecting our relations. You've heard about the resignation\nof Connally.\nD: Oh yes I did, but I didn't know what you are aiming at with the resignation.\nK: Well,\nD:\nmore on the politics side, what is in front but not what was behind.\nK: Well we'll discuss it when I see you. Let's meet tomorrow morning at 11:00.\nD: Tomorrow.\nK: Yes, I need a little more time to discuss this with the President.\nD: Instead of today.\nK: Yes.\nD: It's all right with me.\nK: And I'll give you some thing then which will be more in the thinking out\nloud category but as a basis for discussion.\nD: I understand. It will be some papers.\nK: Yeah.\nD: Yeah. Tomorrow at 11:00.\nK: Yes.\nD: Okay.\nK: Is that convenient for you?\nD: Quite all right.\nK: Or make it 11:30; that way I'll be safe.\nD: Okay.\nK: And also the President would like to have breakfast with both of us\nThursday morning.\nD: Oh it will be just fine, really fine. Tomorrow we will go around 11:00.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELECON\nD\n5/16/72 2:45 p.m. p. 2\nK: Right. And finally he\ndi you mind if we share a cabin up in\nCamp David.\nD: Not at all.\nK: That way I can keep an eye on you better and you'll have a separate room.\nD: All ri ght, quite all right with me.\nK: Okay.\nD: So, tomorrow at 11:30.\nK: Right.\nD: Okay.\nK: Good.\nD: Bye bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n5:19 p. m., May 17, 1972\nK:\nI haven't talked to you in two hours.\nD:\nYes\nunstavle I should say. That's why I was intending\nto call you and to tell you that I have now we rather have the\nbeginnings of a communique.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nSo I will bring it to you that night. That will give you chance to\nstudy it during the night. I will go to bed, all right?\nK:\nOkay.\nD:\nYou will study it if you are upset over the possiblity.\nK:\nI just wanted to tell you we are going back to the original text\non the scientific agreement.\nD:\nOh, I think this is really very nice. It was yours and we accepted,\nthere was nothing really --\nK:\nNo, no, no; we're going back to it and so we can forget about that.\nD:\nIt will be very helpful really.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nWell, what about this car? You have a chance to --\nK:\nWell, I can tell you informally that we will work it out substantially\nalong your lines. I haven't had the final word yet.\nD:\nYeah, Understand.\nK:\nBut we will go very far towards your position.\nD:\nI understand this.\nK:\nI think if we could settle it on the basis that when the President\ntravels alone, he can use his car.\nD:\nWhen he goes where?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 2\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n5:19 p.m. May 17, 1972\nK:\nWhen he travels alone.\nD:\nAlone, what do you mean alone?\nK:\nYou know, when he is unaccompanied by a Soviet official.\nD:\nOh, I see.\nK:\nWhich will not happen too often.\nD:\nNo, I mean but then that way he would like -- you remember the\narrangement that is no problem from us. But if he is going to\nsome places -- in this case which is just really --\nK:\nNow, look, you tell them to have faith in me.\nD:\nYeah.\nK:\nGive me 24 hours.\nD:\nNo problem, no problem.\nK:\nBut we understand your concern.\nD:\nBut only on this matter really.\nK:\nWell, it will be substantially met.\nD:\nI understand. Of course all the other things which you mention\nis perfectly all right with us.\nK:\nThe TV thing too?\nD:\nOn TV, I have no chance to check with them.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nSo I really don't know whether I will get that tomorrow but when\nyou will be there on airfield, I promise you to give answer there\nor Moscow.\nK:\nOkay. Well, I think we can settle the other one.\nD:\nYeah.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 3\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n5:19 p.m., May 17, 1972\nK:\nIt's a question of working with a number of personalities.\nD:\nNo, no; I know.\nK:\nBut I wouldn't spend sleepless nights on it.\nD:\n(laughter) All right. Okay, Henry.\nK:\nOkay.\nD:\nTill 11:15.\nK:\nOkay. Or a little later.\nD:\nYeah; that's all right. Bye, bye.\nK:\nGood, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n5:50 p. m., May 17, 1972\nK:\nHello.\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nAnatol. We are doing instructions for Helsinki and I wanted to\nmention a few issues to you just so that we don't waste time going\nback and forth.\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nOne, on the ABM, I've already explained it to you but we are\nagainst this deferral idea.\nD:\nAbout what?\nK:\nThe idea that the construction of the second side be deferred for\nthree years or whatever the proposal is.\nD:\nYes. Deferment for --\nK:\nDeferral. We call it deferral or deferment is fine.\nD:\nFor three years.\nK:\nWe are against it.\nD:\nOh, yes, um-humm.\nK:\nBecause this is one of the ideas we taught you and now Semenov\nis mentioning it to Smith and --\nD:\nBut what do you want to have?\nK:\nWe want the original position, both sides -- what you gave us in\nMoscow is fine.\nD:\nK:\nNo, no; what you gave me. That sort of paper.\nD:\nWhat was [in it]?\nK:\nThat each side can do two sides, one of the capital and one of the field.\nD:\nYes, but what was given to you by Brezhnev.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 2\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n5:50 p.m., May 17, 1972\nK:\nYeah. I mean, that basic idea.\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nIs acceptable to us.\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nAnd not the refinement that there should be a delay of the second\nside, that is for you the ICBM field and for us the capitol for three\nyears. We don't like this.\nD:\nYes. What --\nK:\nI'm just trying to -- we're going to instruct Smith accordingly.\nD:\nYeah.\nK:\nHe's already told Semenov. The second is that 62 boat limit which\nI've already told you at noon.\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nWhere we want to go back to Brezhnev's proposal.\nD:\nI understand.\nK:\nAnd let me see what other issue there is. Oh, there's something\nabout large faced radars.\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nWhere your side has proposed a limit that we consider too high.\nD:\nOur limit is you think too high?\nK:\nWhat you have proposed that the limit be on the radar which we\nconsider too strong.\nD:\nUm-humm.\nK:\nSo our proposal is either we go to a lower power radar or we will\nmake a unilateral interruptive statement.\nD:\nUm-humm.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 3\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n5:50 p. m., May 17, 1972\nK:\nAnd I think the other issues we will leave to the Delegation to\nsettle so that Semenov and Smith have something.\nD:\nAll right. And I will tell Moscow about it in the meantime.\nK:\nOkay but just to save time so that you know what the President's\nview is.\nD:\nYes, I understand. But one ABM just as good as two.\nK:\nJust stick with the formula which we discussed in Moscow,\nD:\nMoscow, yeah. Okay.\nK:\nOkay.\nD:\nAnd I will mention to Moscow.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nThank you.\nK:\nIn other words, we insist on accepting your proposals; that's a\ntough position for you to be in.\nD:\n(laughter)\nK:\nWe have more trouble with our own Delegation than with you right\nnow.\nD:\nSounds kind of stubborn. There are several ways out. I will\ntell you what the other way out is when you get in trouble with your\nown Delegation.\nK:\nOkay.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nGood, thank you.\nD:\nThank you. Bye, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissing er\nMay 18, 1972 - 5:27 p.m.\nK:\nanswer from Vorontsov in the meantime about the hunting rifles.\nD:\nWhat was about?\nK:\nOr whether they wanted shotguns or hunting -- you know, high-\npowered rifles but Vorontsov explained it.\nD:\nYeah. That's right.\nK:\nAnd on the car, unfortunately, the damage is already done in the\nsense that they have a black interior for it.\nD:\nWell, it's all right. I think it will\nI mean, if they could do\nit in a nice way, it's --\nK:\nOh, it's very nicely done. I'm sure it's beautifully done. They\nknow it's -- and it's going to be picked up -- they made a special\njob so that we could get it so it's hard to change now.\nD:\nOh, I see.\nK:\nare bringing it up tomorrow or the day after.\nD:\nOh, it's very nice, huh? So you really got it to bring there?\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nOh, I think that's very nice. Okay, Henry.\nK:\nGood, those were really -- did I have any other? There was one\nother problem they wanted me to -- Oh, yes, yes; I know there\nwas another problem. When we fly on your airplane, they say that\nmessages to the President on the airplane have to come through a\nRussian radio operator --\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nOur people think we should have an American radio operator there\nonly for messages to the President.\nD:\nJust to be there on the plane?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 2 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\nMay 18, 1972 -- 5:27 p.m.\nK:\nOn your plane.\nD:\nI think it could be arranged.\nK:\nI mean, you know, you of course handle the communications and\neverything else; just if there's a message to the President.\nD:\nYes, but he would be on the same plane?\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nOkay; I think there is no problem.\nK:\nCan you arrange that?\nD:\nI think it could be arranged.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nHe would just be on our plane for radio.\nK:\nNow, our people say, having seen your plane that the President\nwill be so furious at his own plane.\nD:\n(laughter)\nK:\nThat he will ask to have it rebuilt.\nD:\nNo,; I think we have a very nice [U-62 ? ] really. Not noisy and\nquite quiet.\nK:\nWell, I'm told that it's a better plane than ours.\nD:\nInside I could guess it is because it's really -- I don't know about\nhow the interior how they make it now but --\nK:\nNo; I'm told the interior is also extremely nice.\nD:\nprobably they make it really. But in the air it is much better\nreally; much more quiet and much more stable in the air. But in\nthis case, I am sure he will enjoy and you too.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 3 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissing er\nMay 18, 1972 -- 5:27 p.m.\nK:\nOkay, well, I probably --\nD:\nAnd I will be [hostage/hostess], all right?\nK:\nGood. I'll be only on the key airplane.\nD:\nOh, I understand, yeah. Well, we'll arrange something for the\ntrip when they will be there.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nOkay?\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nSo for once again, I thank you very much.\nK:\nNo; we enjoyed having you and it was good that we could have this\nreview.\nD:\nYes; it definitely was very helpful. And I'm looking forward to\nanother year of cooperation.\nK:\nExcellent! And if we make as much progress in that year as in\nthe last year, I think we will have really done something together.\nD:\nIt is my impression too, Henry.\nK:\nGood, Anatol.\nD:\nOkay, thank you very much. I see you in Moscow.\nK:\nRight; look forward. Have a good trip.\nD:\nYes; thank you very much.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMinister Vorontsov/Mr. Kissinger\n11:41 a. m., May 19, 1972\nV:\nHello, Henry, how are you?\nK:\nOkay, Yuly, how are you?\nV:\nFine and I'm not calling to you because of any crisis, even a mini\none.\nK:\nGoddammit, there's no sense talking to you unless there's a crisis.\nV:\nNo, Henry, but there is some concern. I got a cable from Gromyko.\nHe asked me to talk to you on the following. He says that in Moscow\nthey are worried about the state of affairs in [Hildengen ? ].\nK:\nOh, Jesus, yeah.\nV:\nAnd the cable is dated today so it must be -- not entirely after\nAnatol's talk yesterday with you and the President but maybe they\njust meet each other; that cable and our cable. But their worries\nare rather serious because they say that Ambassador Smith is\nsuggesting on many cases something which does not correspond\nentirely to your talks in Moscow and to what the President confirmed\nhere. As one excample, Gromyko wants me to mention to you that\non the exchange letter Smith suggests various formulations which\ndo not correspond to the talks you had in Moscow. For example,\nhe says Smith challenges the number 48. You remember what it is?\nK:\nYeah, well, 48 wasn't mentioned in Moscow.\nV:\nYeah, but it has been mentioned here and it is mentioned in the\nexchange letter you suggest -- at least you haven't raised any\nobjections to that one.\nK:\nYeah, but that I wouldn't -- that I was just passing on to -- all right\nthe 48 I was just -- didn't express any opinion on.\nV:\nI see. That means that you have some misgivings about that figure\ntoo?\nK:\nLet me think -- No, I think we can live with it.\nV:\nAnd then he mentions, Gromyko, something else. He says they\nare not proceeding with full speed on some other matters which are\nnot yet agreed upon. For example, the mobile surface\nlaunchers and the heavy missiles and the other things and there are\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 2 -\nMinister Vorontsov/Mr. Kissinger\n11:41 a. m., May 19, 1972\nrather\nV:\n(cont'd) some not agreed matters on ABM which needs/speedy\nsolutions there at the talks. So the general tenor of Gromyko's\ncable is that we are worried that they will not be able to finish\nthe whole job by the time the President is in Moscow.\nK:\nWell, then they have to finish it when he is in Moscow. Well,\nyou tell Mr. Gromyko that I am going to get our negotiators in\nHelsinki to move with all speed.\nV:\nRight.\nK:\nOn\nthe\nkixxxxx item of 48, that we had not agreed to in Moscow\nas a base figure but I think we can handle it probably.\nV:\nUm-humm.\nK:\nI have not heard here that there was any insuperable objection to\nit.\nV:\nI see.\nK:\nIf there is, I'll call you this afternoon.\nV:\nUh-huh. I see.\nK:\nWhat is the other issue?\nV:\nAnd the other issue, as you mentioned just as an example, the\nmobile surface launchers and the heavy missiles which need some\nkind of formulation to be made. The American Delegation, he says,\nis not showing any inclination to find compromise solution or any\nacceptable solution to that side. Then the same goes with the ABM --\nsome missiles on ABM, especially the regions which will be covered\nby the ABM rockets in the vicinity of ICBM\nsites. But\ngenerally he says it's only examples and generally says that we think\nthat in Helsinki they should do their utmost now and we send our\ninstructions to our delegation to do that. And as the basis of\nagreement, he suggests, Gromyko, should be the talks you had in\nMoscow.\nK:\nWell, that I agree with. The agreements in Moscow will be treated\nas the basis and you can assure Gromyko of that. And the number 48,\nthat's a subsidiary issue because that's a working number by which\nyou determine the base.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 3 -\nMinister Vorontsov/Mr. Kissinger\n11:41 a. m., May 19, 1972\nV:\nYeah, I know.\nK:\nBy which you reach 62.\nV:\nYeah.\nK:\nThere's no problem about the 62.\nV:\nYes, so there shouldn't --\nK:\nSo I have generally taken the position that I will not get into\nworking level arguments until there is a total impasse but if there\nis I will move into it.\nV:\nYeah. And then generally Gromyko expects that you will give some\nurgent instructions.\nK*\nYou can tell Mr. Gromyko I will give urgent instructions today.\nV:\nGood.\nK:\nTo have our people speed up their deliberations.\nV:\nGood. That's exactly what he wants. I understand.\nK:\nGood.\nV:\nFine.\nK:\nNow, Mr. Vorontsov, I have one thing as long as I've got you on\nphone; I wasn't going to do it. A friend of mine, you probably know\nhim, the singer Frank Sinatra --\nV:\nOh, sure.\nK:\nWants to visit the Soviet Union in July and he's going to call you\ntoday and to ask for a visa. I'm not recommending a visa or\nagainst it; you will make that judgment --\nV:\nOh, no, no; there will be no problem.\nK:\nAs you see fit.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 4 -\nMinister Vorontsov/Mr. Kissinger\n11:41 a. m., May 19, 1972\nV:\nHe is well-known in our country.\nK:\nHe isn't used to being held on the telephone too long so you talk\nto him when he calls or whoever and steer him to the right person.\nV:\nSure.\nK:\nBut I want you to know it's not a White House request.\nV:\nOh, no; I understand. Fine. There will be no problem about him.\nK:\nOkay.\nV:\nOkay.\nK:\nBye, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMinister Vorontsov/Mr. Kissinger\n8:10 p. m., May 19, 1972\nV:\nHello. Good evening, Henry.\nK:\nYuly, how are you? Any trouble anywhere in the world?\nV:\nOh, no. You're just checking, Henry, every hour on the hour.\nK:\nExactly.\nV:\nNo, everything's fine. Only one question, Henry, I have. As I\nunderstand the agreement on incidents at sea, it will be signed\nby your Secretary of the Navy. Is this true, because I've got the\nrequest --\nK:\nYeah. Warner.\nV:\nTo issue the visa.\nK:\nThat's right. That's what Anatol and I agreed on.\nV:\nRight, right. So I just wanted to get the confirmation.\nK:\nNow, we have only one other problem.\nV:\nYes.\nK:\nThat concerns the SALT thing, you know, I can tell you unofficially\nwe would be prepared to give on this issue of the mobile missiles\nbut if Anatol will consult his notes, our hang-up -- we have no\nproblem with the 950 missiles and the 62 boats.\nV:\nYeah.\nK:\nThe reason we are having trouble with the 48 boats, which is your\nfigure not ours, is this -- I had told Anatol that we wanted the G&H\nclass submarines, which represent a total of 90 missiles hounded\ninto the replacement. In other words, to be replaced by modern\nboats.\nV:\nYeah.\nK:\nSo those 90 missiles is what's at issue for us.\nV:\nI see, yes. Not the number of the boats?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 2\nMinister Vorontsov/Mr. Kissinger\n8:10 p.m., May 19, 1972\nK:\nNot the ultimate number of the boats but we think that those 90\nmissiles should be replaced.\nV:\nI see. But the figure, you can leave with this figure?\nK:\nWe can leave the figure of 950 and 62. I'm herewith confirming\nto you again --\nV:\nNot 48?\nK:\nWell, the 48 is really a -- if you can find a way -- the figure 48 is\nreally a working figure from which you count the replacements.\nV:\nYeah.\nK:\nWhat we want is to somehow find a way of getting rid of the C&H\nclass submarines as part of this process.\nV:\nYeah.\nK:\nBecause we will have a massive problem with our Congressional\nopponents. I met this afternoon with some of our Congressional\nopponents and I can assure you that we will have an unbelievable\njob selling this agreement.\nV:\nI see.\nK:\nNow, if it's the issue and this is what I had told Anatol to begin with.\nV:\nYes, I know that; he mentioned it to me.\nK:\nSo that is what -- why we are hanging up on the 48. The end result\nfor you will still be 950 modern missiles.\nV:\nYeah, 950 and 62 is okay.\nK:\nThat's no problem.\nV:\nUm-humm, Shall I report this, that the 48 you'd like to get out and\njust to --\nK:\nWell, what we want to get -- if your people -- the best way of handling\nit would be to get rid of the 48 and to say that the C&H class submarines\nwould be counted in this replacement. Then I think we would have all\nproblems solved.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 3\nMinister Vorontsov/Mr. Kissinger\n8:10 p. m., May 19, 1972\nV:\n48 out and meaning that these -- yeah.\nK:\nThe 90 missiles on the C&H class submarines would be counted in\nthe replacement.\nV:\nI see. What action will Mr. Smith do now in Helsinki? He will\ninsist that 48 should go out, I mean, the figure?\nK:\nYeah, for the time -- that's his present position.\nV:\nI see.\nK:\nBut I wanted to explain to you what our concern is. And also explain,\nto you, Yuly, that this is not a new position for us; that is what I told\nAnatol to begin with.\nV:\nYeah, well, I understand but --\nK:\nThe difference arose from the fact that we thought you had 40 sub-\nmarines under construction and whatever and therefore we counted\nthose 90 missiles we gave you 90 more missiles when I gave you\n62.\nV:\nUm-humm.\nK:\nBy assuming you would replace the C&H class submarines.\nV:\nWhich was accepted actually?\nK:\nThat's right.\nV :\nIn the last wording of ours?\nK:\nOh, yes.\nV:\nWell, I don't think Gromyko will be happy with all this because\nin his words and his cable, he suggests that 48 was the figure\ndidn't get any trouble far as you are concerned. When it was\nfirst mentioned, it was okay; you didn't raise any objection.\nK:\nWell, no, you see when Anatol handed me these various papers, I\njust said these in reading quickly; I'm thinking out loud here and I\nsaid the rest of the answers you'll get from Smith.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 4\nMinister Vorontsov/Mr. Kissinger\n8:10 p. m., May 19, 1972\nV:\nUh-huh.\nK:\nI had not considered these as conclusive answers.\nV:\nI see.\nK:\nWhich may have been a misunderstanding on my part.\nV:\nI see.\nK:\nBecause I just gave him very quick reactions.\nV:\nI see.\nK:\nThat is the problem here. Now we can leave it for Moscow and\nsee whether the President and Brezhnev can come up as a compromise.\nV:\nYeah, if they don't have enough time in Helsinki, that will be the\nonly solution I suppose.\nK:\nYeah.\nV:\nBut you think it would be good for me now just to relay to Moscow\nwhat you said to me?\nK:\nYes, I think so.\nV:\nI'll do that immediately.\nK:\nOkay, good.\nV:\nOkay.\nK:\nThank you, Yuly.\nV:\nYeah, bye.\nK:\nYou can reach me -- Haig will be able to reach me within 10 minutes.\nV:\nYes, I understand that. I suppose if something on this or the other\nmatter of 21 --\nK:\nYeah, well, the other one is going to be a little tough to arrange now\non short notice.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nPage 5\nMinister Vorontsov/Mr. Kissinger\n8:10 p. m., May 19, 1972\nV:\nWill it be short notice if,for example, tomorrow morning -- - - now that\nthe situation with this time changes -- I mean the time discrepancy\nin Moscow; it's night and early in the morning they can just start\nsending me something.\nK:\nLet's see what happens.\nV:\nRight.\nK:\nLet's not borrow trouble on that other one.\nV:\nYeah, all right.\nK:\nOkay.\nV:\nGood.\nK:\nThank you.\nV:\nSee you.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon:11:12-6/8/72\nMr. Kissinger/\nAmbassador Dobrynin\nK:\nHellow, Antov\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nWith your usual skill when we met this morning you managed to get me\nto avoid the question which the President is going to ask me.\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nWhich - you know what which one I mean.\nD:\nWell, (laughing)\nK:\nAbout that trip.\nD:\nme so (laughing)\nK:\nWhat happened to that trip we were talking about.\nD:\nYou mean Moscow.\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nWe are awaiting now the reaction\nK:\nI see\nD:\nFrom them.\nBecause\nsort of things and you will be immediately\nimformed.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nSo, this is the answer I have.\nRight.\nK:\n/ Have you notified them about the substance of our discussions.\na certain\nD:\nTo/an extent.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nBut the question is whether we are going to tell them everything without\nomission( (?) or\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nsend a man(?) This is - we are awaiting their reply.\nK:\nI understand.\nD:\nOf course we gave them the choice.\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nSo we told them but not all the story.\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nIn plain (?) we are quite prepared to send a very important man.\nK:\nI understand.\nD:\nunderstand the whole story. (?) So on the date of my\ndeparture, the word reply\nnot important. Whether they would like\nhad\nK:\nOK. Well look, I had assumed that you/nothing concrete to tell me but\nsince I know I will be calling the President in a few minutes and he will\nask me.\nthe\nD:\nNo, no I really forgot to tell you and/second when\nreceived\nit in Moscow there I will immediately inform you. Because Brezhnev\nreally wanted me to tell you this one.\nK:\nRight. Well, I appreciate it very much.\nD:\nAnd this is really - especially\ntell them but not the whole\nstory(?) - and at the same time we are prepared to send top man. All\nof whom you know to there and so\nK:\nI know about that plan.\nD:\nSo, this is a question we are awaiting the reply whether they préfer to\nhave the whole XX story and then to discuss or to receive them. On this\nKaH they can reply(?)\nK:\nExcellent. Thank you very much.\nD:\nSo this is the way(?) really.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 3 -\nK:\nThank you.\nD:\nIf it\nI will be in touch\nK:\nAnd if it happens while I am in Japan, you tell Haig.\nD:\nHaig. OK\nK:\nHe is the only person here who knows\nD:\nOK. I will tell him them.\nK:\nGood.\nwhat\nD:\nBecause this is really/Brezhnev asked me to tell you and the President.\nThere won't be any question because there was a lot of inbetween so\nso I failed to tell you specifically because this information in be-\ntween but in case you ask\ninto\nK:\nI have to watch about lapsing/ixx confidence with you.\nD:\nOh, no no (laughing)\nK:\nOK.\nD:\nReally because I may receive one today(?) that is why I was really\nprepared to tell you the whole story. But this is only the intermediate\nsort of reply that is why I\nThere was really no playing\ndiplomatic(?) things with you.\nK:\nNo, I understand.\nD:\nQuite frankly.\nK:\nNo, and that is what I assumed but since I know the President will ask\nme specifically I thought I would answer.\nD:\nThis is why I am telling you(:?) it is not only on the record(?) but it\nreally\nK:\nAlso, Haig will be in touch with you about that telephone we discussed.\nD:\nOh, I think that would be a good idea really because\nK:\nWe will get it done in the next week.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 4 -\nD:\nD:\nWell, I think that would be a very good idea, really.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nOK Henry.\nK:\nThank you Altov.\nD:\nThank you very much and have a nice trip.\nK:\nThank you goodbye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n4:53 p. m., June 13, 1972\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nAnatol, two things.\nD:\nYes.\nK.\nOne, on that trip -- I mean,not mine but yours.\nD:\nYeah.\nK:\nWe have put on the restriction I mentioned to you this morning.\nD:\nUntil --\nK:\nAnd we will maintain it until he leaves if it is within a reasonable\ntime.\nD:\nYeah, I understand. Okay, thank you.\nK:\nYes, but it is important that you tell me as soon as you can once\nyou know the time is.\nD:\nI will check with them but I am sure nobody could answer me right\nnow because it will depend -- he probably already arrived today or\nif he doesn't arrive but how many days, I just tell you reasonably it\nprobably take around four days but nobody could tell as of now.\nParticularly, because it is not just a quick visit in a sense, that is,\na visit from this till this one. XIX He will just have a informal discussion\nwith them but it will not be long, I am sure about this.\nK:\nWell, if you could let me know, then I will not put an arbitrary restriction\non.\nD:\nYeah, I understand. May I put it this way, I will say to -- by Saturday\nor what you say, or you don't want really -- better not to mention, of\ncourse, specifically but --\nK:\nWell, we have now put it on through Saturday their time.\nD:\nI see.\nK:\nBut if your leader should stay an extra day, could you let me know?\nD:\nOkay.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n2\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n4:53 p. m., June 13, 1972\nK:\nAnd we will not do anything while he's there.\nD:\nYeah, I understand. Okay, I think it's fair enough. Saturday, yes,\ntheir time.\nK:\nAs it is now, the orders are to go through Saturday.\nD:\nYes, understand.\nK:\nBut if you let me know before, say Friday, or let Haig know that he's\nstaying, say through Sunday.\nD:\nYeah.\nK:\nWe will not do anything while he's in the country.\nD:\nI understand. It involved that\nyou mentioned?\nK\nExactly.\nD:\nOkay, thank you.\nK:\nSecondly, I have on this issue of how we present the treaties.\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nWe have found a formula which I think you might find interesting. We\nwill invite the two foreign relations committees and the two armed\nservices committees --\nD:\nThe whole committees.\nK:\nThe whole committees. And the Joint Atomic Energy Committee to the\nWhite House together with the press --\nD:\nHuh?\nK:\nThe press pool.\nD:\nI see.\nK:\nAnd I will present them. The President will introduce me and I will\nintroduce me and I will present it.\nD:\nUm-humm. It's quite a performance (laughter).\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n3\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n4:53 p.m., June 13, 1972\nK:\nSo it will not be on television but it will be a very full press coverage.\nD:\nI see. You'll be in the White House?\nK:\nAnd it will be in the White House.\nD:\nIs it any timetable or you cannot say?\nK:\nWe haven't told the press so it's strictly for you.\nD:\nI understand.\nK:\nThursday morning at 9:00.\nD:\nOh, Thursday morning. So it's really before you go?\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nI see. I think it's a very good idea.\nK:\nIt will not make my reception much warmer when I say friendly things\nabout you.\nD:\n(laughter) So I see you are not really exhausted by your trip to the\nOrient. Still there are some ideas following.\nK:\nOkay.\nD:\nOkay, thank you. So we will -- somebody will be in touch with you.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nYou are leaving on the end of Thursday or Friday?\nK:\nIm leaving either at the end of Thursday or Friday morning.\nD:\nJust for my own information.\nK:\nBut you will let Haig know?\nD:\nYeah. He knows?\nK:\nYes, he's fully informed.\nD:\nYeah. Okay about this one. And we will have this warm line I hope.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n4\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n4:53 p.m., June 13, 1972\nK:\nOh, that will be established within the shortest time.\nD:\nYes, I understand that today. Have you had a chance to speak with\nPete, not yet?\nK:\nOh, yes, I had lunch with Peterson and I think you will find his approach\nvery constructive and positive.\nD:\nOh, I think it sounds very positive\n[End of tape]\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon-7:52-6/14 [1972]\nMr. Kissinger/\nAmbassador Dobrynin\nD:\nYou see I would like your advice. I just received an answer on -\nyou remember we discussed about your\nto Haig on this\nimplication on a\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nand SO on.\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nI received it right now but unfortunately I have to go now outside.\nSo I propose any time to come to you late today or early tomorrow\nmorning. Or I could send Vorontsov to you right now.\nK:\nCould you send Vorontsov to me right now.\nD:\nYes. I could because if you have something to say then I could come\nafter the party - actually quite frankly get\nsocialist\ncountries today at the Polish Embassy.\nK:\nWell, I thoughtwe were against blocs.\nD:\n(Laughing) But only lightly(?)\nK:\nWhy don't you send Vorontsov. Have him come to my office.\nD:\nRight now, yes.\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nOK. If you have a question or anything please tell him then and then\nif you have some comment to make, then I will make a report or -\nbut I am really prepared to come anytime to you after if you need\nor tomorrow morning.\nK:\nOK. Well, Ihave to testify tomorrow morning.\nD:\nThat is why I am calling you because I remember you mentioned it\nto me. Otherwise I really wouldn't have bothered you today, but\nK:\nIs it very different from what we said?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nD:\nThere are some, I don't really think there is a big difference.\nK:\nWell let me take a look at it.\nD:\nBut it is better for you to look at it really, because formulations puts\nit on the line really that I mentioned to you there but you have to look\nin this manner(?) I could give you the text really from telegrams\nif that makes it easier.\nK:\nSo why don't you send it over with Vorontsov?\nD:\nRight now he will come, all right?\nK:\nGood. I understand they are installing that phone. Right.\nD:\nYes, it will be ready tomorrow - we will have it and then we will\nreally have a very nice set.\nK:\nRight. All we have to do then I understand is to pick up the phone.\nD:\nI think it was really a very good positive step because it counts a lot,\na lot.\nK:\nCertainly.\nD:\nAnd saves time.\nK:\nYou send Vorontsov over here.\nD:\nHe will go within 10-15 minutes, all right.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nOK, he will be there.\nK:\nThank you.\nD:\nThank you very much.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n8:20 a. m. - 6/14/72\n(Came in late)\nK:\nat Calcutta and they're talking about bad weather in Hanoi\nand some of you people are talking that he may have to turn around.\nDo you know anything about that?\nC\nD:\nNo, nothing. I know that while in Moscow there was a\nI was with him at that moment when he made up his own route and\nthen there was\nthere to go through China but back to go\nthrough India because he wants to see Prime Minister Nehru.\nBut really at this time I didn't have any messages but I woodenxxx rather\ndoubt that he would go around from Calcutta where - with this other\nway.\nK:\nI know I didn't understand it. That's why I wondered whether you\nhad any\nD:\nNO, I didn't. If I had I WO uld have given you a call but really.\nK:\nPlease don't think it has any significance.\nD:\nNot at all. On this I am positive.\nK:\nAt any rate we are proceeding with the instructions.\nD:\nYes, I understand. There was no announcement as you know.\nI have permission two days ago just for my own or for you, if you\nlike.\nK:\nBut now apparently it is announced.\nD:\nNo it wasn't.\nit was simply.\nK:\nThat he was supposed to stop for an hour and then he decided to\nstay over night.\nD:\nThat's probably\nIf there is something I will be in touch\nwith you.\nK:\nOK. Good.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n8:40 a.m. - 6/15/72\nK:\nHello.\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nAnatol.\nD:\nGood morning.\nK:\nI'm sending over an oral note to you which puts in writing what\nI told Vorontsov yesterday. That's so we understand each other.\nD:\nOK.\nK:\nI believe that once your people look at the record they'll agree there\nis no other possible interpretation. And it isn't possible to count\na missile for replacement that isn't counted in the original ceiling.\nD:\nI didn't quite get what you said last time.\nK:\nI mean I'm assuming that what the record sustains is that the only\nmissiles that are counted on the G-class submarines are modern\nmissiles and if they' re not modern they cannot be used either for\nreplacement nor are they counted in the total.\nD:\nI understand.\ngive your description of the modern.\nK:\nThat's right. We accept the definition of the modern.\nD:\nYeh.\nK:\nWithin that definition we count it. If they don't fall in that definition\nwe don't count them.\nD:\nWithin our definition?\nK:\nWe accept your definition of a modern missile.\nD:\nOh yes.\nK:\nBut if it's not in that definition it doesn't count.\nD:\nI understand.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nYou see what I mean?\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nThat's what I will say.\nD:\nOK. Just\nto Smirnov, what you just mentioned.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nWhen you begin to testify?\nK:\n9 o'clock.\nD:\n9 o'clock. It was on the radio that you are already almost in the\nsession.\nK:\nNo, but in about 20 minutes.\nD:\nBest wishes, Henry.\nK:\nThank you.\nD:\nIt will come by messenger?\nK:\nI will send it over by messenger.\nD:\nOk, bye.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Amb. Dobrynin\n3:08 6/14/72\nHAK: Anatoliy, I just wanted to see if this thing actually worked.\nAD: It is really working well, right away. How's your hearings.\nHAK: I will send you my testimony in a little while--they completely\nscrewed up the transcript -- they left out all the sub-headings, but\nwe'll get it over to you in one-half hour.\nAD: I have seen it.\nHAK: You haveit already?\nAD: Yes, I haven't read it, but it's here.\nwe\nHAK: I think it went well. And you got my note on how V interpreted\nit.\nAD: Yes, it is on one list right?\nHAK: Yes, on one piece of paper.\nAD: I understand what you mean. You are leaving when, tomorrow?\nHAK: Later tonight, about 7:00.\nAD: It will be a chance for you to say somethingin public\nHAK: About thi issue?\nAD: Yes.\nHAK: Oh no, that issue didn't really come up in that way. I may have\nmade a comment on one aspect of it--it is not in any detail.\nAD: Yes, I understand. But you have already finished, I mean in\ngeneral.\nHAK: Yes, I am finished\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelcon\n2\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:08 p.m. 6/15/72\nD:\nWhere will it go now? Into the Senate?\nK:\nIn the Senate, yes. But I think you'll be satisfied with what I\nsaid about our relationship.\nD:\nWill you publish just the summary?\nK:\nWe are giving it to the press.\nD:\nThe text of your speech so to speak or how will it be handled?\nK:\nI don't know how they'll handle it, but we'll release it to the\npress.\nD:\nIt was a statement and then questions and answers?\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nHow long did it take altogether?\nK:\nAbout four hours. No closer to 3-1/2 hours.\nD:\nOh, that is very lengthy. Henry, about this gentleman, I forget\nhis name, the\ncase, you remember from the very first?\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nTheir lawyers called us asking us what to do when because while\nwe were in Moscow there was a hearing, I don't know what it was,\nand the judge says that he will assess them. I don't know the\ndetails but the judge confirmed the case stands, as it is I mean.\nK:\nWell, let me do something about it when I come back.\nD:\nYeah, just look about this to close it one way or the other.\nK:\nWell, you bring him back and we send him to jail, that will close it.\nD:\n(laughter)\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nD:\n(laughter) Oh, oh\nin answering\ndifficult\nbut I think it much better to do something else.\nHe is there so lets finish, otherwise\nmistaken.\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nYes.\nso I mean\nK:\nOK, well let me look into it.\nD:\nYou will be back next\nK:\nThe 23rd.\nD:\n23rd, yes.\nK:\nAnd I will have breakfast with you on the 24th.\nD:\nYes. 9 o'clock.\nK:\nAt your Embassy.\nD:\n9 o'clock.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nFine. Well I wish you the very best.\nK:\nThank you.\nD:\nIt is a very good connection really. (?) Can you hear me well.\nK:\nYes, very well.\nD:\nYes, I can hear you too. Well thank you very much and best wishes.\nK:\nThank you.\nD:\nBye.\nK:\nGoodbye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/General Haig\n9:15 a. m., June 21, 1972\nH:\nMr. Ambassador\nD:\nGood morning, General.\nH:\nHow are you?\nD:\nThank you very much. Did you swim safely back?\nH:\n(laughter) Yes.\nD:\nAccording to the news and radio, it's really something. Do you live\nwhere there is a lot of water there?\nH:\nNot so bad. I live on high ground over the river.\nD:\nSo that's all right. General, I would like to propose to you the\nfollowing. Now, Mr. Sokolov, whom you know, he will bring this\nletter. If you have any questions, please call me on the telephone,\nall right?\nH:\nVery good, Mr. Ambassador.\nD:\nThis is the first one so I am quite really prepared if you have any\nquestions. And second, Henry mentioned to me when he left that he\nwould like to breakfast here in my Embassy on Saturday, 9 o'clock.\nIt was his idea.\nH:\nYes. I think he's got a problem because he is going to have to go up to\nCamp David to see the President and I think he'd like to change that to\nMonday if it's convenient.\nD:\nOh, I see. I think we could arrange it really so it's not really a problem.\nSo is it already a proposal or just thinking forward?\nH:\nWell, let's make it a proposal because I sent him the message yesterday\nthat the President did want him to go to Camp David.\nD:\nNo, no; I do understand very well. And mind you, it's all right with me.\nWe'll make it a little bit earlier then. Not 9:00, but a little earlier.\nH:\nA little earlier, all right.\nD:\nOr if he prefers, we could have a lunch. Not 9:00, all my employees\ncome in.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 2 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/General Haig\n9:15 a. m., June 21, 1972\nH:\nIt takes up the whole morning, yeah. Would 8 o'clock be all right or\nlunch?\nD:\nWell, I think maybe yes. We could make it 8 o'clock or lunch.\nH:\nAll right.\nD:\n1:15 in this case.\nH:\nThen let me come back to you.\nD:\nWhen it is clear, please call me.\nH:\nFine.\nD:\nOkay?\nH:\nGood, Mr. Ambassador.\nD:\n8 o'clock on Monday then or 1:15 lunch time.\nH:\nGood, excellent. Thank you.\nD:\nThank you very much.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTelCon-3:20-6/22/72\nGeneral Haig/\nAmbassador D.\nD:\nHello.\nH:\nHello, Mr. Ambassador. I am sorry I am so late getting back to\nyou. I have been over with the President - he has had me in a press\nconference.\nD:\nOh I see, well I called you because - while I understand that you\nwere with the President - I simply want to draw your attention to\nthis letter which was sent by the Secretary to the President.\nH:\nYes.\nD:\nThe paragraph dealing with Vietnam in the sense that it really needs\nto be read rather carefully. Because\nyou understand but at\nthe same time I think it has got all the points which Henry discussed\nin Moscow with Gromyko. Well it was discussed of course on the top\nlevel but then it was discussed a week ago tonight(?) between Gromyko\nand Henry. First, we would work out several things further to be\nbrought to their attention as we promised. Second, that they - I mean\nthe Vietnamese - really attach serious attitude and significant\ninformation. Then they emphasized that they attach great significance\nto the Paris negotiations. They said they are ready to resume both\nsessions, plenary andprivate.\nH:\nYes.\nD:\nBecause in Moscow there was a discussion and they raised this\nquestion unless it will be they agree to a private there will be no\npublic.\nH:\nYes.\nD:\nSo here it says to both they are prepared to have it.\nH:\nRight.\nD:\nAnd then it says in this connection Le Duc Tho and Thuy(?) they\nwill be ready - soon be back taken in view of the particular circum-\nstances, they will be back.\nH:\nRight.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 2 -\nD:\nThen\nthe Vietnamese say that a business-like approach\ntowards the resumption. It really\nbut Henry says\nthey should not be involved only in propaganda but be businesslike.\nSo it says they are prepared to be business-like. And then Henry\nmade the point because I was present during the whole talks that is\nwhy I could make such a demand (?) that he said that we don't won't\nto have a discussion when it will only be discussed from their point.\nH:\nYes, that is right.\nD:\nSo here it says that the Vietnamese side proceeds on the basis not only\nproposal\ntalks and this is important\n.\nH:\nYes.\nD:\nSo this is a point simply on my own I should say rather, I bring to your\nattention because you are not there, so I would like you to look through\nthis one.\nH:\nYes, I noticed all those things very carefully and I agree with\nD:\nHave you already put it to the President - this letter.\nH:\nYes, he is aware of it but he hasn't really focussed on it yet and will\nthis afternoon.\nD:\nOh this afternoon (?)\nSo I would like to make some comment too on\nthis session\nletter - of course Secretary General Brezhnev\nattaches quite a personal importance.\nH:\nAbsolutely.\nD:\nSo this is really the remarks I would like to make to you.\nH:\nWell, good Mr. Ambassador, and I appreciate it and your (?) words\nare not wasted.\nD:\nYes (laughing) I hope so. About the meeting with Henry, you will\nlet me know tomorrow whenever you know - when is more convenient\nfor him Saturday or Sunday.\nH:\nWell, I am sure he will want it on Monday morning and I will let you\nknow whether it will be Monday at breakfast or Monday at lunch.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n- 3 -\nD:\nOK\nother questions arise, please don't hesitate to call me.\nH:\nGood, Mr. Ambassador. Thank you very much.\nD:\nGoodbye.\nH:\nGoodbye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n\"D\" File\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Amb. D\n6/24/72 10:28 a.m.\nAD:\nWelcome back, Henry.\nHAK: I just tried to reach you.\nAD: Thank you very much. How are you?\nHAK: I'm fine. Shall we have lunch on Friday?\nAD: Do you prefer breakfast or lunch--I think lunch is better.\nHAK: Shall I come over there? I don't mind being corrupted.\nI wanted to say two things--When we send over an announcement--\nI tried to reach you last night and couldn't get you.\nAD: Yesterday I was out until around 11:00.\nHAK: I tried to reach you to read the announcement to you that we\nare putting out - we sent it over--it is nothing. About the Chinese\ntalks. Did you get it?\nAD: No, not yet.\nHAK: We sent it over this morning.\nAD: I got here just 15 minutesago. What is it about.\nHAK: It is about nothing--I will read it to you now. It just says PM\nChou En-lai and other Chinese officials had discussions with Dr. Kissinger\nand his party\nreads rest of Saturday announcement.\nAD: That's all?\nHAK: It was essentially a review of the situation and they of course\nasked questions about the meaning of various agreements-. if you\ncan imagine.\nAD: No, no, it is imaginable.\nHAK: I explained exactly in the terms of more or less our public\npresentations. And they were not crazy about Article 3 of our general\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nMr. Kissinger/Amb. D\n6/24/72 Page 2\nprinciples. And then there was some Vietnam discussions. I'll go\nover with you on Monday--but nothing of startling interest.\nAD: It's all right. I'd like to talk to you about several things including\nstrategic arms--you remember? Then about signing here about the\nDeputy of Trade and I would like to discuss it with you--but you'll be\nthere in your office let's say within an hour?\nHAK: Yes.\nAD: I will call you because he might arrive on Sunday--\nHAK: This coming Sunday?\nHAK: Yes. Deputy of Trade you say?\nAD: Yes, he is the First Deputy of\nPolicy. In connection\nwith what the President discussed in Moscow. Maybe in an hour or\na half an hour I will call you back.\nHAK: One other thing that needs no saying. I don't know whether\nyou read that Joe Alsop column yesterday\nAD: No.\nHAK: Well, it is pure, absolute total xxxxchief (?) mystery.\nAD: What did he say?\nHAK: He said that I was going there to discuss military measures\nagainst a Soviet attack.\nAD: Why would he write something like this?\nHAK: Anatol, I do not understand it. First of of I do not believe\nthere will be a Soviet attack, secondly, I have said a thousand times\nthat I have never discussed any military measures with him--you\nknow-- it is not that sort of a relationship.\nAD: That is why I was wondering why. It is interesting why he would\ndo it.\nHAK: I cannot understand it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nDr. Kissinger/Amb. D.\nPage 3\nAD: He has a good personal relationship.\nHAK: He has an excellent relationship with me--I am so furious\nwith him that I have ordered both Haig and of course myself to\ncut off all contact with him. Because this is the--he has an excellent\nrelationship with me and for that reason its going to mean a signifi-\ncance that it wouldn't normally have.\nAD: Because--this is the point, there is no reason why--two or\nthree days ago he wrote an article about all the Soviet ambassadors--\nI don't know if you remember--going around saying that there--\nHAK: Well, you saw the article he wrote about me that I will be\nmade Secretary of State--do you think that will do me any good?\nAD: (laughs) It would be flattering from the point of view of the\ncommon public, I should say.\nHAK: From the point of view of the common public, it is flattering,\nbut from the point of view of Washington it is a disaster--you know\nthat.\nAD: Yes, Iknow.\nHAK: But believe me--I haven't seen the article about you--\nAD: No, no there was no atrticle about me--just that all the Russian\nambassadors that they were telling everyone that the military\nadvance of the North Vietnamese is a complete failure.\nHAK: Well, he doesn't get that from me either.\nAD: To put that in my mouth, I am saying everyone--it is noxthing\nreally otherwise, you know\nHAK: You know, Anatol, both you and I know he is violently anti-\nSoviet for a reason we bothknow and he is making the maximum\namount of mischief. I normally don't comment to you about\nnewspapers, but I have--and to do that while I am in Peking, so it\nisn't speculation, it's like he really knew something.\nAD: As if it were a special kind of connection [laughs].\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 4\nIVL\nDr. Kissinger/A b. D.\nHAK: Well, I can tell you I don't know what the Chinese think, but\nthey must be furious.\nAD: It doesn't bother about their feelings specifically.\nHAK: Of course, you know if it was'nt\n, we wouldn't do it,\nit would be insane in the light of our present relationship, but it is\na absolute outrage.\nAD: I will call you in a half an hour.\nAAK: I will be giving a brief press conference this morning just\ndescribing the schedule of my trip of China--it's just mechanical.\nAD: I see-just in Peking or your travels around Peking.\nHAK: Just Peking. Oh, there was another article in the newspapers\nincidentally that I had visited the Polytechnical Institute and talked\nto their rocket experts--total nonsense.\nAD: Yes, and last night or the week before it was the guest house\nwhere you stayed there were so many people around arriving for\nthe special meeting.\nHAK: Again, total nonsense. The day I went--you know they\nfollowed it and they were usually cut off by security people--I can\ntell you what I did but that morning I went to the Sports Academy\nwhere they train acrobatics and ping pong players which is about two\nmiles from the Polytechnical Institute--and I went to the Sports\nAcademy, so they--I never went to the Institute or saw that scientist.\nFor example, one night they said I had a late meeting at the Great Hall\nof the People--somebody must have put this stuff out in Peking, because\nwhat happened was that I went to an Opera performance at the Great\nHall of the People which ended at 11:00.\nAD: Did you have American newspapermen there?\nHAK: No, this was the local press and of course the Chinese controlled\nthem completely--I cannot control what they do, but I did not see a\nsingle newsman and there was no particular meeting in fact the last\nnight we had been outside the guest house.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nPage 5\nDr. Kissinger/Amb. D.\nAD: They're probably just trying to arrive at a colorful\nsaying\nyou are in Peking.\nHAK: You call me at 11:00, I'll be back in my office--11:15\nAD: Okay, I'll call at 11:15.\nHAK: Good\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:32 a.m., June 24, 1972\nK:\nHello.\nD:\nHello, Henry. Are you over with your press conference?\nK:\nI'm finished.\nD:\nYou're very quick now.\nK:\nOh, yeah. Well, I just said that relations with the Soviet Union are in\nbad shape; there's going to be a tremendous headline tomorrow.\nD:\nI was worried about that. I think you had just enough to say one phrase\nand that's finished. Well, this I would like to just mention to you before.\nK:\nJust for your information, I have publicly stated that this stuff about\nrocketry experts was total nonsense.\nD:\nI think it really is because you know different kinds of people look\ndifferently on all the stories in the press, as you understand. So I\nthink a public statement from your level is useful.\nSpecifically, I received instructions to speak with you when you were\nback and specifically only to you. And I read to you right from the\ntelegram really just to make sure. At the summit talks in Moscow,\nPresident Nixon made a request for the grain purchases from the\nUnited States be considered by the Soviet Union. In making that request,\nhe noted that a positive decision on this question by the Soviet trade\nwould create a favorable atomsphere, so to speak, in the Congress\nand in the country in general for granting the Soviet Union most\nfavored nation treatment in commerce and credit.\nK:\nThat is correct.\nD:\nAfter President Nixon's departure, the Soviet leaders carefully\nconsidered the question once again taking into account the considerations\nexpressed by the President in Moscow to the effect that that action\nfrom the Soviet Government would help the Presidert decide more\nquickly the question of normalization of Soviet/American commercial\nand economic relations. The Soviet side deemed it possible to authorize\nthe Soviet Foreign Trade Ministry to enter concrete negotiations with\nauthorized representatives of the Unite d States Government, on the\nquestion of grain purchases taking into account the exchange of views\nwhich had already taken place between the sides on this question, in\nMoscow and besides.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 2 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:32 a.m., June 24, 1972\nK:\nDoes anybody here in town know that this man is coming?\nD:\nThis I would like to finish. This is really the message. As they\nexpressed to you in Moscow, tell you that before negotiations between\nthe sides of the Bahr/Fomin question are completed it would be much\nbetter to take steps to insure that American press would not report the\npurpose of the Delegation's visit. And now I would like to explain what\na little bit happened yesterday. Yesterday, our first Deputy told\nMr. Patolichev he applied for visa in your Embassy without telling\nanyone what was the purpose of his visit. So your Ambassador was\nnaturally a little bit mystified and he sent a telegram -- at least I\nhave received here calls about initiative on Mr. Irwin who is as you\nknow Acting Secretary of State and from Mr. Peterson. They inquired\nwhat is the purpose of this gentleman coming here, and at this juncture\nwhen they asked me, I didn't have anything really. But then a few hours\nlater I received a telegram which I was just telling you but in any case,\nI didn't call them back, of course, because it was only for your\ninformation. So he applied for a visa to come here on Sunday, but\nnobody knows exactly what he is coming for because he is Deputy and,\nas such, he could deal with any question with the trade relations. So\nhe's\npractically everything. So nobody really knows just\nexactly the purpose, but as Peterson yesterday put to me, he probably\nwill deal with the Canada problem, and this is exactly correct because --\nSo I have the question really to ask -- --\nK:\nI will let you know by tomorrow how we will handle it. Let them only\nknow that he's coming.\nD:\nYes. Nothing else.\nK:\nThey do not know what.\nD:\nThey do not know one word of it. Nobody knows. Except you.\nK:\nAll right.\nD:\nI have two questions whether it's wise for him to come tomorrow\nor maybe to try to stop it and come a little bit later. Or it doesn't\nmatter really?\nK:\nI would frankly prefer it if he could wait till Wednesday. Or Tuesday.\nCan you keep him in New York for a day?\nD:\nFor one day. This I could do.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 3 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:32 a.m., June 24, 1972\nK:\nDo it on Tuesday because that way -- don't let him change his travel\nplans now. Have him visit your UN man.\nD:\nYes, and just remain there as if he is doing something there.\nK:\nAnd then I can on Monday, which is a working day, get it set up.\nD:\nYeah. Okay.\nK:\nAnd then I'll tell you exactly how to handle it.\nD:\nOkay. So I will let them know where to come but stay one day and then\nthey will come on Tuesday to Washington.\nK:\nExactly. And I will then have it set up and I agree with you that we\nshouldn't have any publicity.\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nWell, I guess it's linked to the shipping things and other things.\nD:\nIn the telegram saying he will come and explain to me what they are\nbut the main thing --\nK:\nMy suggestion to you, Anatol, is this. After he comes, and you know\nwhat you are prepared to do --\nD:\nI know that he is authorized to discuss the question of the grain purchases\nand --\nK:\nBut you'll know more details after he gets here?\nD:\nOf course I will.\nK:\nThen after we know exactly what the framework is -- At any rate, I\nwill do my best to keep it out of the press.\nD:\nYeah, I understand.\nK:\nAt any rate, I'll do my best to keep our Departments shutup.\nD:\nYeah, I understand. So in this case, I will give advice to stay there\nuntil Tuesday and he will come on Tuesday then.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 4 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:32 a. m., June 24, 1972\nK:\nLet him come Tuesday morning.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nLet me say, I'm sure on behalf of the President that we consider this\nreally a very positive way of handling matters.\nD:\nWell, I think it's really good. When you left, we discussed this question\nin Moscow at that time.\nK:\nIt's a very decent way of handling it.\nD:\nSo when I left, there was no decision yet taken but now I receive it.\nWhat about Pete Peterson? I have to call him back because he asked me\nto. He called me twice yesterday and he asked when I will know something,\nplease let him know. So I will have to let him know. So I should, of\ncourse, call him on Monday or I couldn't call him at all and you could\ntell him. Because he is coming to Moscow, how is it really right to\nhandle with him personally?\nK:\nThe agriculture thing?\nD:\nNo. He called me about the purpose of Kuzmin's visit. I said I didn't know.\nK:\nLet me handle it.\nD:\nYou will tell him. Okay.\nK:\nI'll handle it in a preliminary way and then perhaps just to maintain your\ngood relations, you can call him Monday.\nD:\nOnly on this one.\nK:\nAfter I have talked to you.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nBut let's not get too many people involved.\nD:\nNo, no; you' re the only one who knows. Nobody else. We will be in\ntouch with you on Monday and then if you think it's okay, I will call him\nand just say a very few words.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 5 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n11:32 a.m., June 24, 1972\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nOkay. So this I think covers practically everything. Yeah, I think that's\nall.\nK:\nGood. And then I'll see you at 1:15 at the Embassy. I'll have an answer\nfor you then about the letter and also about the phone message you gave\nus yesterday. You know, the Brezhnev thing.\nD:\nOh, yes.\nK:\nBut I can tell you now we consider it a very constructive approach to the\nproblem. And I think we are moving in a direction which you will find\nagreeable.\nD:\nDo you have anything now or not yet any direct approach. I mean, in a\nsense of arranging meetings or not yet?\nK:\nI told you about it. We're exchanging ideas on it.\nD:\nYes, I know.\n[Break in Tapes]\nK:\nWe'll let you know, but it is moving in the direction that was suggested\nby your leaders of setting a date.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nBut that is strictly for you. You can tell your leaders that in principle\nwe are very close together on the procedural side -- you will know\nbefore, you won't be surprised by anything.\nD:\nRight, I understand. Okay, Henry. Until Monday.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n12:02 p.m. - 6/27/72\nK:\nHello.\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nAnatol, how are you?\nD:\nOK. Now Mr. Kuzmin the First Deputy of Mr. Patolichev\njust arrived and I talk with him so I would like to tell you his story.\nHe arrived here\nin connection with the discussions\nthat took place in Moscow and they were thinking that they would\nwelcome Mr. Peterson as it was scheduled in July. But they think\nit is not really enough time for about the whole month to proceed\non some issues which are of\nso to speak. So my\nquestion is to you about lend-lease but if you prefer\nPeterson.\nBut the second thing -\nK:\nWe can have a preliminary discussion.\nD:\nWell, it is not necessary really.\n1\nK:\nBut I've confirmed we are definitely sending Armstrong.\nD:\nYes, that's why I already send yesterday's talk. And second\nin connection with the things we discussed with the President about\ngrain purchase. Connections with your interest and our interest\nso he's right here to buy some of them for cash and some of them\nalong the lines it was discussed when Mr. Patolichev was here.\nAnd to buy on the long term with the\naccording to your\nlaw. As I remember it was discussed somewhere around $700 million\non a long range. It was discussed when Patolichev was here he\ndiscussed it with Peterson.\nK:\nThat's right.\nD:\nThis is really what he came to discuss right now. First to buy\nsome grain now and the other to conclude Canadian agreement on\ngrain and together\nthis business.\nK:\nLook, let me call Peterson immediately and then I will call you back\nand then we will XEXX set up an appointment.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nD:\nYes, I think it may be a good idea to have them tomorrow for\na meeting with Peterson.\nK:\nI will arrange for him to see Peterson first.\nD:\nYes, I think this is the best way.\nK:\nAnd then we will arrange all other meetings.\nD:\nMake it tomorrow around.\n.\nK:\nYou don't want any publicity, right?\nD:\nNo, no publicity at all. It should be for the time being kept strictly\nbetween us and you.\nK:\nRight. I told the President and he really appreciated the speed\nwith which your leaders responded to his request.\nD:\nYes, in all these economic relations we help you to put on a stable\nbasis our American relations. So now on grain he has authorized\nfirst to buy on some and other to have an agreement signed here\non a credit basis recently discussed when Patolichev was here on\na large amount of money on a long-term basis.\nK:\nWonderful. I will call you very soon.\nD:\nTomorrow morning any time.\nK:\nGood. Wonderful.\nD:\nAnd the second question has nothing to do with this one. I simply\nwould like to mention to you tomorrow About these two fellows Ivanov\n? andMarkelov I am sorry to bother you but\nMarkelov\nK:\nDidn't Marcallo 2) get\nD:\nWell in Marcallo's elov, case we would like to get Bond back - it's around\nthe bond\n$100, 000 I guess.\nK:\nAll right.\nD:\nWe would like the money back to use it more constructively, so to speak.\nIvanov\nThen secondly on the Reynolds (?) case they feel like this one -\nthey\nas if nothing happened so I really would like a second\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nlook at this business; maybe that the President by his own\nauthority would stop all the things or maybe as our lawyer\nsuggests that the lawyers could appeal to the court and ask\nthe court to take into consideration the years he already spent\nunder this sentence and the years he was under this probationary\nperiod. I don't know how better to do it. But to please look at\nthis matter.\nK:\nI will look at this matter and I'll get you an answer within a week.\nD:\nYes, OK.\nK:\nLook, we've handled these things before and it's always worked\nout well.\nD:\nYes, I understand. Just two things - money back and the other\nis just to close the case.\nK:\nNow let me raise an issue with you. It has to do with Shapiro.\nWe are not taking an official position. We're being dd uged with\nphone calls from senators and Senator Jackson called yesterday\nand he was going to make a public statement and I urged him to\nkeep quiet and I just wanted to express the view that if this thing\ncould be diffused. I don't know a damn thing about it. I don't\nknow what the fellow did. I think he's the fellow who married\nthis American girl.\nD:\nBut the question was he was subject to the military draft. He\nevaded it and then he met this American girl and married. So\nK:\nHe's not an American. We can't get into this Soviet side of it.\nIt's merely a case where we are under a lot of pressure. This\nis not going to be made a matter of record and we will never\neven acknowledge that I have even talked to you about it.\nD:\nThe difficulty is that he evaded the military draft. Well, I will\nmention to my people about what you mentioned.\nK:1\nJust mention really we are under terrific Senatorial pressure\nand we are not making an official reference to it.\nD:\nI understand. It's just the thrust of the thing.\nK:\nIt's just to inform you what our domestic situation is.\nD:\nI understand. OK. I will send them a report on this.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n12:15 p.m., June 27, 1972\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nPeterson will see the Deputy Minister at 10:30 tomorrow morning\nin his office.\nD:\nFine.\nK:\nAnd he will handle it discreetly and constructively.\nD:\nI think this is a very good thing.\nK:\nAnd then Peterson and I will handle matters from then on.\nD:\nI think that is good. Tomorrow at 10:30.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nOn the first mission I will accompany him and then later on he will\ngo on his own.\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nSo I think really he's done everything.\nK:\nGood. And we won't tell anybody.\nD:\nI shouldn't call to Peterson now?\nK:\nIt's not necessary.\nD:\nUnnecessary, okay. So you'll speak with him?\nK:\nNo, I explained to him why it was done this way and I took the blame.\nD:\nOkay. So 10:30.\nK:\n10:30.\nD:\nOkay, Henry. Thank you very much.\nK:\nBye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:37 p.m., June 28, 1972\nK:\nHello, Anatol, how are you?\nD:\nOh, hello. How are you?\nK:\nOkay.\nD:\nHas Peterson told you of our meeting today with him ?\nK:\nYes. He thought you were unusually constructive.\nD:\n(laughter) Well, at least once for a while it is easier. Yes, so why\nnot do easier.\nK:\nWell, I think the situation is getting ridiculous when we settle all our\nproblems so quickly and the staff has all the fun.\nD:\nWe really deserve vacations, don't we?\nK:\nThat's right. I was hoping we could save it and say Peterson and\nDobrynin screwed it up again. Then it has to go into the President/\nBrezhnev channel. No, no; I think it's a very constructive talk and\nPeterson and I are going to work out how to handle it here bureaucratically\nand then we'll let you know.\nD:\nYou will tell us today or tomorrow?\nK:\nWe'll let you know later today or at the latest tomorrow morning.\nD:\nYes, I think it would be better.\nK:\nNow, on the pipeline payment --\nD:\nOn what?\nK:\nOn that July 1st payment. The way we would like to handle it is to give\nyou a bill now.\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nBut say -- normally, we have found out you don't pay it until August 1st.\nD:\nNo, I think you always pay them by the July 1st.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 2 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:37 p.m., June 28, 1972\nK:\nWell, our people claim not till August 1st. But at any rate, we will\ngive you a bill and say it's due on August 1st.\nD:\nDue in what way?\nK:\nIt will just say you owe us this amount.\nD:\nOh, I see.\nK\nBut you don't pay it till -- We will say it is due for payment on August 1st,\nyou see what I mean?\nD:\nIt means we are not going to pay exactly on the 1st of July but we will\npay on the 1st of August.\nK:\nRight. And then Peterson will settle the whole thing when he gets there\nand has a comprehensive discussion.\nD:\nWhere? In Moscow.\nK:\nIn Moscow.\nD:\nSo in this case, we just make it postponed about everything until the\n1st of August.\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nUm-humm.\nK:\nAnd we will give you a formal paper. It will justify it so that you are\nnot defaulting for a month if that's what worries you.\nD:\nYes, yes, yes.\nK:\nWe will give you a piece of paper that you owe us whatever the damn\nsum is.\nD:\nYeah, I understand.\nK:\nJuly 1st but it isn't due until August 1st.\nD:\nI understand. Okay, I think it's fine.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 3 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:37 p.m., June 28, 1972\nK:\nOkay?\nD:\nYes, it's quite all right.\nbig\n/\nK:\nBecause that way we don't have to go into the bureaucratic argument\nhere on what this is.\nD:\nYeah. If it's okay with you, I'll give Brezhnev a call.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nWithout worrying how to do it. So it's actually like a postponement\nof a payment for one month?\nK:\nRight and it enables then Peterson to have a comprehensive discussion\nwith your people when he gets there in July.\nD:\nWho will give the paper? You will give them?\nK:\nNo, Peterson will send it over to you.\nD:\nPeterson, all right. That's all right. Then, Henry, about this\nmotor boat, they asked me\n.....\nK:\nOh, dammit! I'll get you an answer tomorrow.\nD:\n(laughter) Because they are pressing on me about it.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nYou will tell me tomorrow?\nK:\nRight. Now, Anatol, as long as I've got you on the phone, how should\nwe read the Brezhnev pleads on Vietnam? I read it to mean that\nCastro is in town and he has to say something.\nD:\nThere is nothing new in our position.\nK:\nNothing new.\nD:\nNo.\nK:\nOkay. Well, that's what I thought.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 4 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:37 p.m., June 28, 1972\nD:\nOn this really it is very clear.\nK:\nThat's what I thought.\nD:\nYes. There's nothing really new.\nK:\nAnd you, of course, have communicated our plans to your people?\nD:\nYes. Everything. As was SALT which I mentioned to you.\nK:\nWell, we'll get a reply tomorrow we've been told and then I will let\nyou know when we have it.\nD:\nYes. You know, you understand\nthere is nothing new\nin what he said and what we discussed with you privately.\nK:\nOkay. Well, that's what I thought.\nD:\nYes.\n...\nK:\nGood.\nD:\nHe's going to make an announcement about a troop withdrawal.\nK:\nYeah, he's made it already.\nD:\nAlready. I haven't seen it yet. He has made it already?\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nIt's not world-shaking. Just 10, 000 for two months.\nD:\nFor the month?\nK:\nI mean, 5, 000 a month.\nD:\nIs this the final before the election?\nK;\nWe haven't decided yet.\nD:\nOh, you haven't decided yet.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 5 -\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:37 p.m., June 28, 1972\nK:\nWe'll be out in 8 years.\nD:\nYeah. Oh, I see (laughter). In what, 8 years ? I think that's fair\nenough.\nK:\nThat's off the record. I mean, they wanted a fixed deadline and we're\nnow prepared to give it.\nD:\n(laughter) Well, well, you have a very promising position I shall say.\nK:\nYeah, but we are flexible about it.\nD:\nYeah, I und erstand!\nK:\nWe're willing to listen to counterproposals.\nD:\nYeah, I understand. This year, as you know, is a year basically of\ndiplomacy\nAnd then you will get what you want.\npretty\nK:\nNo, but you and we are reaching the point now where we start'close with\nour honest position.\nD:\nNo, no, I think it's really more than enough.\nK:\nThe way we are moving now I think that's true.\nD:\nYes. But really basically it's true. It has its ups and downs but as I\nmentioned to you the last time, once the basic decision was taken, this\nis probably\non the direct line and you really\nrather big decision\ntaken.\nK:\nBut, Anatol, on the troop withdrawal, whatever we announce, we've told\nyou what our intentions are. That is not the obstacle.\nD:\nYeah, I understand.\nK:\nWe'll settle the troop withdrawal issue very rapidly once we get the\nother ones out of the way.\nD:\nYeah, I understand. All other decisions which was earlier discussed.\nK:\nExactly. There's no change in our position.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n- 6 -\n3:37 p.m., June 28, 1972\nD:\nI understand.\nK:\nAnd no other country has our position except you.\nD:\nYeah, I understand. And with not the Chinese knowledge.\nK:\nWell, through you, not through us.\nD:\nNo, no; through us. The reference/residence (?)\nin Moscow.\nK:\nBut what I meant -- I'm just repeating what I told you the other day.\nWe were not this specific in Peking.\nD:\nAbout this particular sentence.\nK:\nAbout the political side.\nD:\nAll right. So tomorrow then on this thing you mentioned, Peterson\nwill call me about it.\nK:\nPeterson will be in touch.\nD:\nGood. You owe me answer on this\nboat. (laughter)\nK:\nTomorrow.\nD:\nYes. And second, well, if you could tomorrow or whenever about\nthese two gentlemen that you mentioned. You will not\nK:\nIt's on my agenda.\nD:\nIt is.\nK:\nWe'll settle it; don't worry about that.\nD:\nWell, thank you very much, Henry.\nK:\nRight. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nDobrynin/Kissinger\n10:45 a.m. - 6/29/72\nD:\nHello.\nK:\nAnatol, we have to have our daily talk.\nD:\nYes, I think it's quite all right because we are just going to solve\nthe problem that you mentione d yesterday.\nK:\nAbsolutely.\nD:\nAnd you see only one I received today the\n1 telegram. What\nabout this.\nK:\nOh, goddamn it you'll have it.\nD:\nNo.\nthe President.\nK:\nBy early afternoon I'll give you the answer. Frankly probably the\nanswer is we don't care wherever it's more convenient for you.\nD:\nYeh, because they will deliver on any port on the East Coast\nbetween the 25th of July and the 5th of August because the boat is\nready and they just got it set to go and you know when the Boss\nsaid it should be delivered everybody is eager to do it so I received\ntoday the telegram.\nK:\nWell, the President is preparing for a press conference and\nHaldeman hasn't been available.\nD:\nI understand.\nK:\nPurely\nD:\nI see. But when Brezhnev gives an order so the Minister of\nTransportation is bombarding me with telegrams.\nK:\nYou'll get an answer.\nD:\nPlease get for me today an answer - any port, Baltimore, New York,\nor whatever is the usual port or commercial port.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n2\nK:\nNewport News. Have a Soviet ship come into\nour Naval base it would attract a lot of attention.\nD:\nI think it would be very nice. Or you may put it this way\nleave\nthe boat two or three miles out of the base and the boat will go\nby its own just to prove that it could go or not. So you will give me an\nanswer today.\nK:\nToday.\nNow two other things. I'll have that bill sent over to\nyou today or tomorrow.\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nSecondly,\nD:\nWhat bill?\nK:\nThat lend lease.\nD:\nYes. Yes.\nK:\nAnd\nD:\nYou mean in the form of the specifications that you are preparing\nto make?\nK:\nRight. And then we ought to sign this Interpretive Statement.\nD:\nOK. I could drop in tomorrow if you like.\nK:\nWhy don't we do that. All I did is take the language from your\nmessage and say this is our interpretation and the Soviet side\nagrees with it and then we both sign it.\nD:\nAll right. When will you give it to me?\nK:\nI'll send it over to you this afternoon and you can look at it.\nD:\nOK and then I will send for a report\nMoscow.\nK:\nI'll send it over to you imediately.\nD:\nYes, and tomorrow I am going to sign it myself.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\n3\nK:\nOK.\nD:\nAnd tomorrow we can get together and\ndiscussion.\nK:\nRight. Now second, when are you coming to the West Coast?\nHave you picked a day?\nD:\nWell, I will tell you tomorrow. It won't be next week but the\nother week.\nK:\nThat's right.\nD:\nI will tell you tomorrow the more precise date.\nK:\nWhy don't we tentatively say the Tuesday of the following week\nfor Los Angeles and then Wednesday you come down to San Clemente.\nD:\nI think it's quite all right. I will check. What is the date?\nK:\nThe 11th. I'll give a dinner for you the evening of the 11th in\nLos Angeles.\nD:\nOK, so it's Tuesday then.\nK:\nRight. I'll arrange some movie studios the afternoon of the 11th.\nD:\nIt would be very nice. So tentatively let's stay with the 11th then.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nAnd you will send me this paper and tell me about the boat. When\nare you leaving? Tomorrow?\nK:\nYes, but we haven't set the time yet.\nD:\nI see so any time in the morning when you have a minute.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nThank you very much. Bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin's Office/Mr. Kissinger\n4:35 p.m., June 29, 1972\nO:\nThe Ambassador's Office.\nK:\nThis is Mr. Kissinger. Can you have the Ambassador call me?\nO:\nDr. Kissinger, the Ambassador has left the Embassy and before\nleaving the Embassy he told us we can expect your call.\nK:\nAll right, send the ship to Baltimore.\nO:\nTo Baltimore.\nK:\nYes.\nO:\nVery good. Thank you very much indeed.\nK:\nGoodbye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n12:25 p.m., June 30, 1972\nK:\nHello, Anatol.\nD:\nHello, Henry. How are you?\nK:\nOkay. Two things -- One, about the Vietnam talks. I wanted to say\none thing about your friends there.\nD:\nWhere?\nK:\nHanoi. And I must say it very seriously to your leadership. One is\nthey're already starting again what we told you at great length we would\nnever tolerate.\nD:\nWhat namely?\nK:\nWell, now they've made a statement today saying they have forced us\nback to the conference table.\nD:\nHenry, you know I mentioned to you the other day when we went over\nthis, some kind of statement they will do it. They didn't specifically\ntell us what kind of statement.\nK:\nNow they've invited Joe Kraft and some Labor leaders to Hanoi.\nD:\nJoe Kraft?\nK:\nYeah. And you know what the purpose of this is.\nD:\nNo.\nK:\nYou know, they are going to float whatever proposals they' re going to\nmake publicly before they speak with us.\nD:\nNo. On this particular point, I don't know really but I am quite prepared\nto send through us to them -- if they are going to do this one, you will\ntake your own conclusion from this one.\nK:\nIf they play domestic politics here, we will do what we did in May. We\nwill break off and escalate because we have nothing to lose that way.\nThen we will have to try to force them to their knees. I mean, we\nliterally would have no choice. I mean, I am telling you frankly. This\nis not to be transmitted in quite this brutal language.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 2 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n12:25 p.m., June 30, 1972\nD:\nYeah, I understand. Well, the only thing we should really put in the\npromise is what you said in the middle. I mean, if they are really\ngoing to tell everything to all the people who come to them having\nnothing to do with the Administration and just give out publicly, then\nthere is no sense to negotiate.\nK:\nAnd then we will have to break off.\nD:\nYeah, this I am prepared to ask on your behalf of my people in Moscow\nto tender to Hanoi. This I could do.\nK:\nI think if you could do that, it would really --\nD:\nOf course, nothing about the first time because nobody could -- Well,\nyou know, they make a statement after all it's really perfectly clear\nand without any specific threat. As you know, the statement that was\nreleased by the Chinese. I mean, on the last threat.\nK:\nLet them try to talk seriously. He has never tried it in four years.\nD:\nYeah. This I am quite prepared to ask my people to send to them.\nI mean, without any specifics that says you will bring them to their\nknees, as you know.\nK:\nNo, no; you know, this is for your information.\nD:\nYeah, I understand.\nK:\nI mean, we will have to do something.\nD:\nWho is from Labor going there?\nK:\nWell, I think from the Teamsters Union.\nD:\nOh, Teamsters. It doesn't really matter about names really.\nK:\nI think it's Gibbons.\nD:\nYeah. I mean there is no specific -- it doesn't matter. On this I am\nprepared to tell what you mentioned to me about if they are going to\nstart out publically that you are going to break, there is nothing new but\nit will be once again confirmation of your position.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 3 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n12:25 p.m., June 30, 1972\nK:\nThat's right. We will under no circumstances yield to domestic\npressures here.\nD:\nYeah, I understand.\nK:\nNow, you heard about Baltimore. I mean, I sent over that note to you\nyesterday. You haven't had word yet?\nD:\nNot yet, but it wasn't in on time.\nK:\nThere's no hurry. We can sign it.\nD:\nActually, maybe even today I will receive quite frankly but if not,\nwe could sign because you have a text. I really don't see any -- In\nmy opinion, it's quite all right. Maybe they find some others but\notherwise I think it's really exactly what was wanted.\nK:\nThe other one we wait till you hear from Moscow.\nD:\nWhen I do, I will be in touch with you. In this case, [each one while\nit will be varied, we'll just initial] and sign it here in this case.\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nBut if I receive today -- when are you leaving today?\nK:\nAbout 3:30.\nD:\nOh, 3:30. It's practically -- I will have no time. In this case, I will be\nback in touch with you.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nAnd we could do it really.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nOkay. You have nothing else, Henry?\nK:\nYou're coming out around the 10th, right?\nD:\nYes. What's your telephone number?\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 4 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n12:25 p.m., June 30, 1972\nK:\nCall the White House, they are connected directly with me. I can give\nyou a number. Area Code 714/492-0011.\nD:\nApproximately you imagine the\nnext Tuesday.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nLos Angeles one day if possible I would like to see. I would like to see\nSan Clemente.\nK:\nThey way I thing we might do it -- If you say arrive in Los Angeles\nMonday night, then I would come up on Tuesday and we would go to\nsome movie studios together on Tuesday. And then in the evening we\ncould have dinner in Los Angeles and Wednesday you can go to\nSan Clemente.\nD:\nOh, I see.\n[Break in Tapes]\nD:\nI will give you a call anyway 4 or 5 days before.\nK:\nGood. Because I want to invite some people.\nD:\nNot to make it too big but nevertheless I would like somebody.\nK:\nNo, I would invite about 10 to 14.\nD:\nYes, I leave that entirely up to you. You know the people really so I\nrely on your opinion and judgment, which is usually a good one (laughter).\nK:\nYou don't want to have a detailed political discussion, do you?\nD:\nNot at all.\nK:\nOkay.\nD:\nOkay, Henry.\nK:\nIt will be a fairly serious one. You know, it will be what is considered\nsocially acceptable.\nD:\nNo, it will be just a social event. Just to have a nice evening.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 5 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n12:25 p.m., June 30, 1972\nK:\nIt will be a social event.\nD:\nYes, nothing to do with politics. It's really very clear.\nK:\nNo, I will give it at the house of the head of Paramount. I've talked to\nhim already so it will be at a private house.\nD:\nI think it would be better, yes. Well, also I think everything is arranged.\nWe don't have anything specific on our agenda. All you're going to\nthink about is no news business.\nK:\nNo, no; that's right.\nD:\nBecause when you come to Moscow, Mr. Brezhnev will ask you.\nK:\nNo, no; we'll discuss it when you come to San Clemente.\nD:\nBetween us, I noticed how you and the President now and noticed with\ninterest how you, as you say, in\nwith Mr. Brezhnev in alliance\nwith Mr. Laird.\nK:\nI have stopped it; it will not happen again.\nD:\n(laughter) I don't know whether Mr. Brezhnev will like it or not. I\nrather guess he will not. But it looks rather ridiculous between us.\nMr. Brezhnev supporter of Mr. Laird.\nK:\nI have never said this. I never said it.\nD:\nI know but the President, why should he say it? He used it rather\npersistently and I think it's not really a very good idea, between us.\nK:\nYou can tell your leaders that already this morning steps were taken\nto stop it.\nD:\nBecause it sounds rather ridiculous.\nK:\nIt will never happen again.\nD:\nRather ridiculous.\nK:\nIt won't happen again; you've shown great restraint.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n9 I I\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n12:25 p.m., June 30, 1972\nD:\nYeah. Well, on this grain business I think it's going quite all right for\nthe time being. I don't see any specific difficulties, do you?\nK:\nNo. It looks fine.\nD:\nWhat else do we have? Well, on this fellow (?) you will tell me later on.\nThere is nothing specifically otherwise. Of course, on the Middle East\nbut I am afraid you will not spend the Thursday on this problem while\nI'm in California.\nK:\nNo, that is correct.\nD:\nWe are not going to spend -- (laughter)\nK:\nThat is correct.\nD:\nWell, it's still as it stands. Okay, so if I have something I will be in\ntouch with you. Okay.\nK:\nGood. Bye.\nD:\nBye, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmbassador Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n1:02 p.m., June 30, 1972\nD:\nHello, Henry.\nK:\nYes, Anatol.\nD:\nI would like to discuss with you the question with this grain. Just now\nMr. Kuzmin he returned from Peterson and probably there has been\nsome kind of misunderstanding. Before you leave, I would like to ask\nyou what it is about. He and Mr. Butz mentioned to our Minister Kuzmin\nthat they would like to hold all this until Peterson will come back from\nMoscow.\nK:\nNo, no need.\nD:\nNo need?\nK:\nNo.\nD:\nBecause we are quite prepared to do it. I mean, in a sense, as you\nknow, there is a two-fold declaration. One is a agreement for three\nyears. The other is to sign it now while Kuzmin is here for one year.\nSo we are quite prepared to delay the announcement, so to speak, for\nthe three years when Pete will be back. We have nothing against it\nbecause we think it is quite all right with us.\nK:\nActually the President's present thinking, which I haven't told Peterson\nyet, is to announce it around the 18th.\nD:\nThe 18th of what?\nK:\nJuly.\nD:\nWell, it doesn't really matter whether it is July 18th. It is quite\nall right with us.\nK:\nYou can do it for the three-year deal?\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nIt is completed by then?\nD:\nNo, the question really is on a practical thing. We will sign it. There\nis no real problem within a few days on this three-year deal. We will\nsign it.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 2 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n1:02 p.m., June 30, 1972\nK:\nOh, you will sign it.\nD:\nYes. I mean, sign it but without announcement. We could sign it\nhere while Mr. Kuzmin is here.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nSo there is no problem about it. We will have a document but\nactually we will announce it on 18 or 12 or whenever you really like it.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nBut the practical point is Mr. Kuzmin while he is still here, he would\nlike to sign it with the companies -- American companies who really\ndeals for the first year without telling them he is going to buy for\nanother extra two years.\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nBut your people -- Peterson mentioned, well, you prefer he not\nnegotiate now with the American private companies until the announcement\nhas been made but then the whole idea of his being here is nonsense\nreally.\nK:\nNo, I will get that straightened out.\nD:\nYes. So really the question is we are prepared to sign the three-year\ncontract. It will be announced on a date which you prefer, no problem\nfrom our side. But the only thing we would like now when he has all\nthe experts here to begin the negotiations for only one year and it will\nbe really with a different companies so they will not learn about the\nbig deal so to speak.\nK:\nI'll call you about it this afternoon.\nD:\nYeah. Okay. Please look into this matter because otherwise the\nwhole delegation is holding because -- except for Mr. Kuzmin, all the\nothers are expert to deal with the companies not with the negotiations.\nK:\nGood. I will call you before I leave.\nD:\nOkay. Bye, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:10 p.m., June 30, 1972\nD:\nHello, Henry\nK:\nAnatol, I have cleared it up and you can start negotiating for the\ncash purchases immediately.\nD:\nYes.\nK:\nOn the agreement itself, you should go ahead and negotiate it and then\nwe would like to announce it sometime the week of July 17th if we\nhave the maritime question solved by then.\nD:\nWhen Peterson will be there?\nK:\nNo, no; we can announce it here before Peterson goes.\nD:\nOh, before even.\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nI see. By that time you hope you will get this --\nK:\nWe will have it solved.\nD:\nYes, to do it. But you have in mind to announce about the whole deal\nabout long-term? I mean, for three years in all, yes?\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nYes, I understand. It is all right with us.\nK:\nI think it's the sensible way of completing. Because if we settle it\nin July and hold it up till August when Peterson is back and it comes\nout that we've done that, it really doesn't look very good.\nD:\nYeah, I understand. You have a Convention next week and so on.\nK:\nSo I think we should announce it whenever we can agree on it as long\nas it isn't during the week of the Democratic Convention because then\nit would look like a stunt.\nD:\nI understand. But do you really think it would be possible to prepare\nright now within a reasonable time without waiting until the 18th of July\nreally because as a matter of principle, I mean, on a government to\ngovernment basis because Mr. Kuzmin says he leaves rather quickly.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 2 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:10 p.m., June 30, 1972\nK:\nYes.\nD:\nAnd at the same time we could pursue without mentioning to the\nprivate companies.\nK:\nYou can begin negotiating your cash purchases.\nD:\nOn this year.\nK:\nOn this year.\nD:\nYes, without mentioning anything for the other things.\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nThis is a point I would like to clear.\nK:\nNo, you can begin negotiations on the cash purchases. We can even\nsay for cash or credit but it would be better to say cash so there is\nno speculation.\nD:\nFor one year without mentioning anything what we could discuss up on.\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nAnd meanwhile Mr. Kuzmin will [make sure] that as soon as possible\nthis agreement on three years and with understanding we will publish\naround the 18th.\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nThis is a good decision.\nK:\nThat's the businesslike way of doing it.\nD:\nExactly.\nI\nis quite good for us\nto go ahead with this\nunderstanding. You will notify Pete about it?\nK:\nI have notified Pete and he's agreed. The only other thing is we have\nsome jurisdictional problems here.\nD:\nWhat kind?\nK:\nIn the White House Peter Flanigan looks after the economic aspects\nof this so --\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 3 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:10 p.m., June 30, 1972\nD:\nSo you would like --\nK:\nNo, no; I will inform him. No, no; you don't have to. If there is a\nproblem, he may get involved in the thing and I just wanted you to be\naware that I am in close touch with him.\nD:\nYeah, I see. In case, for instance\nwhile you're in California,\nI have to contact him then if something --\nK:\nContact me and I may ask you then to contact him.\nD:\nBut you will tell me when to contact him ?\nK:\nRight.\nD:\nFor the time being, I'm still doing this particular business with you\nnot with him ?\nK:\nRight. Once it is reduced to a purely economic thing, I will move\nit over to him.\nD:\nOkay.\nK:\nBut this way we could move it faster.\nD:\nYeah, because this is the thing, not to delay what they could do. The\nwhole team to have another man there --\nK:\nNo, your team can start working immediately. It will take them a week\nor two to get the agreements.\nD:\nYeah, I understand. But it would be good if we could do it simultaneously\nso to speak.\nK:\nExactly.\nD:\nParticularly to discuss it with you on a government level and at the\nsame time discussing it with them on a one-year term and with you\na long-term.\nK:\nExactly right.\nD:\nThis is really what you wanted.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 4 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:10 p.m., June 30, 1972\nK:\nDid you ever not get what you want out of my office?\nD:\n(laughter) Well, well, you're going to receive almost a billion dollars,\nI should say. Doesn't it sound enough?\nK:\n(laughter)\nD:\nAnd the time is not inconvenient as Mr. Gromyko would like to say;\nit is not inconvenient.\nK:\nIt is not inconvenient.\nD:\n(laughter) For your side when you put it this way.\nK:\nThat is correct. So you tell Mr. Gromyko, incidentally, that he got\nme unawares last time but I'm sharpening my double negatives.\nD:\nWell, you seem to because this is his favorite way sometimes to those\nwho doesn't know him very well, even our own foreign ministers\nthey're puzzled, but he uses formal and they don't know whether he's\npositive or he's negative.\nK:\nHe is masterful in the use of double negatives.\nD:\nYes, sometimes. Well, I know him for many years so for me it's\neasier but for many people, it is still difficult to understand.\nK:\nWell, I'll tell you, you know, people -- I had dinner with Kay Graham\nyesterday and I said to her I've developed a real personal affection\nfor Gromyko and she looked at me as if I had absolutely lost my mind.\nD:\nWell, I think he\na great majority of people, not only in\nyour country but in my own think the same way.\nK:\nThey think he is a dollar. Then I said the other day to a television\nperson -- not on television but I had dinner with her -- I said in general\nRussians have a good sense of humor but the man who has a really\ndelightful sense of humor is Gromyko. She looked at me and I knew\nshe thought I had absolutely lost my marbles.\nD:\nHenry, this is a mystery. (laughter) I apologize for\n.\nYou see, you have better protection so you are quite safe but the other\nmen who would say the same thing, they will not believe completely.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 5 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:10 p.m., June 30, 1972\nK:\nHe has a great sense of humor.\nD:\nHe has but only in rare cases when he really has the full confidence\nof the man.\nSo you developed this kind of relationship\nwith him.\nK:\nWell, I look forward to seeing in September.\nD:\nYeah, in September you will. It's approximately the same date as\nit was.\nK:\nAbout the 9th I will get there. Is that all right?\nD:\nAbout what?\nK:\nAbout September 9th.\nD:\nYes. Well, I don't specifically have in mind the 9th but the first\n10 days. I checked it with Brezhnev two weeks ago. He said the first\n10 days is quite all right. So when it comes a little bit closer, I will\nrecheck because now it is foolish.\nK:\nWill you recheck? You know, what I frankly want to do is go to the\nOlympic Games on the 7th and 8th and then arrive on the 9th in Moscow.\nD:\nNo, I'm sure there will be no problem because if he will not be there\nit would be arranged for you to go to the Crimea or\n.\nHe'll probably go to the Crimea; he hasn't decided yet but in this case\nyou could go there. It's a nice place to be there.\nK:\nI would love it.\nD:\nThere would be people like Mr. Brandt and Mr. Kissinger and the\nSecretary General.\nK:\nExcept that I'm not so afraid of him as Mr. Brandt is.\nD:\n(laughter) Well, I think that now he is used to.\nK:\nOkay.\nD:\nOkay, Henry.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified.\nTELCON\n- 6 -\nAmb. Dobrynin/Mr. Kissinger\n3:10 p.m., June 30, 1972\nK:\nI'll see you on the 11th in California.\nD:\nYes. And I will give a call before.\nK:\nIf you could confirm it for me as early next week as possible.\nD:\nOkay. I will do it something around maybe Tuesday or Wednesday,\nall right?\nK:\nGood. Because I would like to arrange the movie studios and also\nthe dinner.\nD:\nNot later than Wednesday I will give you a call.\nK:\nRight. Bye.\nD:\nBye, bye.\nReproduced at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library\nDECLASSIFIED\nThis document has been reviewed pursuant to Executive Order 13526 and has been determined to be declassified."
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