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Secretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger
- 7 -
ought to move in this direction, but only on the conditions that you,
yourself, have stated. The conditions you've stated are that there
have to be satisfactory solutions to the problem of Berlin, and we all
agree what those solutions should be -- certainly in terms of principles.
There should be free access; there should be communication between
the two parts of Berlin; there should be better postal facilities and better
phone facilities. All these other things by and large are things that
the Russians won't be able to do probably.
K:
On Berlin?
Yeah. Well, on Berlin I think there's no disagreement
at all.
On Germany, as between you and me, I think that the trends,
simply based on German history and the personalities, are more dangerous
than one can deduce from what they are now saying and doing. But still,
it is beyond our ability to effect by the sort of thing that Acheson is doing.
R:
That's right. But suppose we decide that we should do everything
we can to prevent the trend that you are speaking of.
K:
No, I don't think
R:
Even if we decided to do that, though, the way to do it is to
fasten on to Berlin.
K:
Absolutely.
R:
Because the Russians can't get off that hook; if we keep the
Federal Republic in line, the Federal Republic says there has to be
a
satisfactory solution to the problem of Berlin; it has to be a solution
acceptable to the allies. We understand that we can't do anything;
unless there's a satisfactory solution, we won't ratify the treaty
either with Russia or Poland. Unless there is a satisfactory solution,
we won't have a European Security Conference. We all agree what a
satisfactory solution is. NOw the Russians can't accept our satisfactory
solution.
K:
I feel that the policy we have, in fact, been pursuing over the
last year or so is correct.
R:
In the NATO communique
K:
You know, the fact that I think that German [End of tape]
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"ocrText": "Secretary Rogers/Mr. Kissinger\n- 7 -\nought to move in this direction, but only on the conditions that you,\nyourself, have stated. The conditions you've stated are that there\nhave to be satisfactory solutions to the problem of Berlin, and we all\nagree what those solutions should be -- certainly in terms of principles.\nThere should be free access; there should be communication between\nthe two parts of Berlin; there should be better postal facilities and better\nphone facilities. All these other things by and large are things that\nthe Russians won't be able to do probably.\nK:\nOn Berlin?\nYeah. Well, on Berlin I think there's no disagreement\nat all.\nOn Germany, as between you and me, I think that the trends,\nsimply based on German history and the personalities, are more dangerous\nthan one can deduce from what they are now saying and doing. But still,\nit is beyond our ability to effect by the sort of thing that Acheson is doing.\nR:\nThat's right. But suppose we decide that we should do everything\nwe can to prevent the trend that you are speaking of.\nK:\nNo, I don't think\nR:\nEven if we decided to do that, though, the way to do it is to\nfasten on to Berlin.\nK:\nAbsolutely.\nR:\nBecause the Russians can't get off that hook; if we keep the\nFederal Republic in line, the Federal Republic says there has to be\na\nsatisfactory solution to the problem of Berlin; it has to be a solution\nacceptable to the allies. We understand that we can't do anything;\nunless there's a satisfactory solution, we won't ratify the treaty\neither with Russia or Poland. Unless there is a satisfactory solution,\nwe won't have a European Security Conference. We all agree what a\nsatisfactory solution is. NOw the Russians can't accept our satisfactory\nsolution.\nK:\nI feel that the policy we have, in fact, been pursuing over the\nlast year or so is correct.\nR:\nIn the NATO communique\nK:\nYou know, the fact that I think that German [End of tape]"
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