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Ronald Reagan Presidential Library
Digital Library Collections
This is a PDF of a folder from our textual collections.
Collection: Reagan, Ronald: 1980 Campaign Papers
1965-80
Folder Title: [Transcript - 1980 Presidential Forum, Midwest
Region Republicans, 03/13/1980] (2 of 2)
Box: 247
To see more digitized collections visit:
https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/archives/digitized-textual-material
To see all Ronald Reagan Presidential Library inventories visit:
https://www.reaganlibrary.gov/archives/white-house-inventories
Contact a reference archivist at: [email protected]
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National Archives Catalogue: https://catalog.archives.gov/
48
1
sending them that they're sending back to us in the
2
form of weapons and threatening us.
3
MODERATOR SMITH: Gentlemen, I am afraid we're
4
going to have to switch from foreign affairs due to
5
our merciless schedule. I want to ask you some
6
practical questions about politics.
7
If you become president, any one of you,
8
your first duty will be to have the vision and the
9
information to provide programs and plans to meet
10
our problems. But then your second duty may be
11
much more difficult, that is, getting Congress to
12
accept your plans and programs.
13
I talked to President Nixon some time ago
14
and he reminded me six years ago he offered the first
15
fuel program and Congress wouldn't pass it. I talked
16
to President Ford and he said four years ago, five
17
years ago he offered the second program. Carter
18
offered one. It was paid no attention to. Now
19
he's getting the scraps of his program at last.
20
How-- what makes you think you could
21
either persuade or do successful battle with Congress
22
to prevent your proposals and messages from going
23
into the wasterpaper basket on Capitol Hill?
24
Mr. Crane?
49
1
PHILIP CRANE: Well, let me say that Jack
2
Melenti, head of the Motion Picture Association,
3
had an interesting article recently on what ingredients
4
the next president should have. He said first he
5
should be an educator and secondly a communicator.
6
The purpose of both is to cut through so much of
7
the lack of public understanding of the nature of
8
the problems, and by communicating that effectively
9
to the American people you can then, I think, depend
10
totally on the American people to put the sentiments
11
or to apply the pressure on the members of Congress
12
to do the right thing even if they're doing it for
13
the wrong reasons, namely, just to hold office.
14
Now, let me give you a case in point.
15
You know, the American people are totally confused
16
about the energy situation. And one third of them
17
blame OPEC, one third of them blame the Department
18
of Energy, and one third blame big, bad oil.
19
The president has demagogued at the expense
20
of the oil industry in this country and has tried
21
to create the impression on the part of a lot of
22
Americans who cannot believe that they would have a
23
president sitting in that White House who would either
24
not tell them the truth or would engage in some kind
50
1
of deception for whatever kind of reason. And I
2
submit to you that that's exactly what the president
3
is engaged in.
4
The fact of the matter is if you looked
5
at his solution to this problem with his alleged
6
windfall profits tax on big, bad oil, that's not
7
a tax on big, bad oil, it's an excise tax on a barrel
8
of oil at the wellhead, it clobbers little oil
9
independents in this country who find 90 percent of
10
the new oil.
11
I haven't seen any evidence of big oil
12
down there lobbying against it, and why should they?
13
Because their profits are coming from international
14
operations. And if we increase domestic supply,
15
that's going to reduce our dependence on their
16
exports from foreign operations into this country.
17
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Bush, the question is
18
how would you presuade Congress to pass your programs
19
and it's not about energy and oil. How do you do
20
that?
21
MR. BUSH: Well, some of us haven't had much
22
success lately.
23
MODERATOR SMITH: Well--
24
GEORGE BUSH: Frankly, I don't think we're
51
1
going to have the status quo. I think there's some-
2
thing going on in the country, change. I believe
3
you're going to see Republicans continue the trend
4
it started in '78. I think you're going to see some
5
Democrats reach kind of a conversion in terms of
6
recognizing that stimulating the economy through
7
the kind of tax cuts three of us are talking about
8
and balanced budgets and this approach, I think
9
it's going to be-- and then part of it is party
10
discipline.
11
Now, let me put the question this way.
12
I want to be president. And I believe, obviously
13
I wouldn't be sitting here if I didn't think I'd
14
win the nomination, but you have a party organization.
15
I will support the nominee of the Republican
16
Party. I feel I have a moral obligation to do it.
17
That signal goes out to your troops in the Congress.
18
And I'd just like to ask would you do that, Ron? And
19
would you do that, John? Would you? I think you
20
have to ask that question.
21
MODERATOR SMITH: I think Mr. Anderson--
22
JOHN ANDERSON: I tell you those were words
23
as truly spoken by a former Chairman of the Republican
24
National Committee under Richard Nixon. You're
52
1
talking about moral obligation.
2
GEORGE BUSH: Would you support the nominee
3
of the party? Will you support the nominee of the
4
party?
5
JOHN ANDERSON: George, you don't have to point
6
your finger at me. Really, don't get so excited.
7
GEORGE BUSH: Will you support him?
8
JOHN ANDERSON: Well, you know in Nashua--
9
this is very nice. Tonight I'm sitting with you
10
actually and with Mr. Reagan and Mr. Crane. In Nashua
11
we couldn't get you to let us debate.
12
GEORGE BUSH: Well, I'd accepted a different
13
agreement.
14
But would you support the nominee of the
15
Republican Party?
16
JOHN ANDERSON: I expect to be the nominee of
17
the Republican Party. I fully expect to be able to
18
support the nominee of the party, yes, I certainly
19
expect to be able to do that. But, I have said
20
this.
21
GEORGE BUSH: Well, that's a change of position.
22
JOHN ANDERSON: I have said this, Mr. Bush.
23
That I think we are living in a new and different
24
age, and you referred to it yourself. And I believe
53
1
there is a new politics that is waiting to be born
2
in this country that thinks when we have had two
3
crises in just two months, when we have the Democratic
4
Senate Majority Leader quoted in the press yesterday
5
as saying that he thinks the president ought to go
6
on national television and declare a national
7
emergency, I think the issues transcend the kind
8
of narrow partisianship that you represent.
9
I believe that a new coalition of voters
10
in this country composed of Democrats, Independents
11
and Republicans. And you apparently believe in that
12
kind of coalition when you were trying to get some
13
Democratic votes in South Carolina.
14
GEORGE BUSH: I still do, John. I still do.
15
But I will support the nominee of this party.
16
JOHN ANDERSON: I believe, I believe that the
17
issues today, the issues today that the American
18
people are concerned about, inflation, the decline
19
of productivity, the fact that we've got these
20
interest rates at astronomical heights, and that this
21
economy is threatened, as I said, with almost national
22
bankruptcy, to sit and talk as a mere partisan in
23
that context bothers me a great, great deal.
24
MODERATOR SMITH: I think Governor Reagan has
54
1
something he wants to say about this.
2
RONALD REAGAN: Yeah, Howard, can I answer the
3
question you asked.
4
MODERATOR SMITH: Please.
5
RONALD REAGAN: How do you get the Congress to
6
go along with a Republican president?
7
Well, for eight years I was the Governor
8
of the most popular state in the United States.
9
And that state, when I became Governor, was as.
10
bankrupt as the Federal Government is today. And I
11
had a majority of Democrats, hostile Democrats, in
12
both houses of the legislature.
13
And yet we secured the welfare reforms,
14
we secured-- well, we took the state away from
15
bankruptcy. I succeeded in giving back to the
16
taxpayers over the eight years $5,700,000,000 in
17
tax rebates and tax credits. Our bonds got a triple
18
"A" rating, the reform of welfare cut a 40,000 increase
19
in the welfare load to an 8,000 a month decrease.
20
And it was all done with a Democratic legislature.
21
And what Phil said about communicating,
22
when I was faced with the opposition to all of those
23
things, and I was, Democratic legislature-- when you
24
tell a Democratic legislature you want to give back
55
1
an $850,000,000 surplus to the people, that's like
2
getting between the hoq and the bucket. You get
3
buffetted about a bit.
4
But I took my case over their heads to
5
the people. And I told the people what it was we
6
were trying to do. And I learned there that it isn't
7
necessary to make the legislature see the light, just
8
make them feel the heat.
9
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Crane?
10
PHILIP CRANE: John, I want to be up front with
11
you, John, because you've done something most recently
12
that I cannot support, and I cannot imagine any
13
Republicans supporting it, if you want to know the
14
truth.
15
We have not had a shot at that United
16
States Senate, a realistic chance, in a quarter of
17
a century or more. Now, you signed a fund raising
18
letter for such progressive members of that Senate
19
as George McGovern, Frank Church, John Culver, Birch
20
Bayh, some of the most vulnerable people-- I'm not
21
talking about the issue, John--
22
JOHN ANDERSON: will you yield?
23
PHILIP CRANE: Yes, I'll be happy to as soon
24
as I finish.
56
1
It's not the issue, John. It's a question
2
of a Republican signing a fund raising letter to try
3
and keep those prominent, in my judgment, most
4
ultra and extreme left-wing Democrats in the United
5
States Senate, and you had a primary contest that I
6
stayed out of last time, John. I didn't get involved
7
in that race. It was a conservative challenging you.
8
You had everyone from Jack Kemp to Gerry Ford come
9
in there to campaign for you. The Republican Party
10
has faithfully supported you for 20 years. And I
11
think that is an ingratitude, John, it's an in-
12
gratitude that is sufficient that you forfeited the
13
expectation of any support from Republicans.
14
JOHN ANDERSON: Will you yield?
15
PHILIP CRANE: Just one final note.
16
You know, honest men can disagree, and I
17
have respected you, John, throughout the years even
18
though I disagree with you. But keep in mind-- you
19
know Don Riegle never voted with us. And your
20
support for the GOP majority last year was 9 percent.
21
Well, Don Riegle finally saw the light.
22
He saw where he was and he crossed the aisle. So
23
did Ogden Reed in New York. So did Peter Peyser.
24
And how can you come here before a group of Republicans
57
1
or ask for a Republican nomination when you have
2
taken the position that you will not support a
3
Republican candidate?
4
JOHN ANDERSON: Phil, I admire and I respect
5
you, too. But the support rate is not 9 percent,
6
that isn't true. But the letter, that's the important
7
thing.
8
PHILIP CRANE: No, last year John it was 9
9
percent. Congressional Quarterly has you at 9 percent.
10
JOHN ANDERSON: That's not so. But the letter
11
was not a fund raising letter for George McGovern,
12
for Frank Church, for any of these other people.
13
What it was was a letter designed to raise funds
14
for an organization which is supporting the principle
15
of freedom of choice. And in the text of that letter
16
it was pointed out that good men of both parties,
17
and the names of two Republicans were mentioned in
18
that letter, good men in both parties are being
19
threatened with exorcism. They are to be exorcised
20
from the political realm. They are to be driven out
21
of political life simply because of the stand that
22
they have taken on a single issue.
23
I happen to believe, Phil, that in the
24
times that we live today, dangerous and critical as
58
1
they are, that single issue politics is very devisive.
2
And that to simply say that you're going to drive
3
somebody completely out of politics because of that
4
particular issue, I don't believe it's correct. I
5
happen to believe in freedom of choice. I'm not going
6
to go out and try to defeat somebody who happens not
7
to share my view on that particular issue. I don't
8
happen to think that that is the central issue before
9
the country today. I think it's the economy.
10
And that letter, any fair reading of the
11
text of that letter will indicate that it is designed
12
to raise funds for the organization not for those
13
individuals who are mentioned in the text of the
14
letter. And I just have to insist on a correct
15
interpretation.
16
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Reagan is enjoying this
17
too much. I think he should say something about it.
18
RONALD REAGAN: Well, I was just sitting here
19
thinking that if George McGovern and Frank Church,
20
Birch Bayh, Culver of Iowa and some of those others
21
Democratic Senators, when in this next election
22
if the Republicans can hold their own and qain nine
23
of the 24 Democratic seats that are up, we will
24
control one house of the Congress for the first time
59
1
in more than a quarter of a century.
2
I don't think that they have to be defeated
3
on just that issue in which you happen to agree with
4
them on. I can find you 50 reasons that Frank Church
5
and those other gentlemen should not be in the United
6
states Senate anymore. I don't care whether it's
7
for the one issue or the 50, I'll do everything I
8
can to see that they get defeated.
9
JOHN ANDERSON: I am not endorsing any of those
10
people. I certainly agree.
11
But I do not think we want to see American
12
politics come to the point where we try to drive
13
good men out of public life simply because they are
14
attacked on a single issue. I'm against that.
15
RONALD REAGAN: That's where we disagree. I
16
don't think they're good men.
17
MODERATOR SMITH: Let me ask everybody one
18
question. Will all of you agree to support the--
19
any one of you who becomes the Republican nominee
20
for president?
21
GEORGE BUSH: I will.
22
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Crane.
23
PHILIP CRANE: I won't. I cannot support you,
24
John, for what you've done.
60
1
JOHN ANDERSON: Well, my answer to that question,
2
Howard, goes back to the answer that I gave a few
3
moments ago. I cannot try to build a new politics
4
in this country and structure a new coalition and
5
tell people that I am doing it on the basis that
6
there are certain very fundamental issues that are
7
so important that they literally relate to the
8
survival of life as we have always known it on this
9
planet and not be-- and not think that those issues
10
are critical importance, and then repeat the old
"
shibboleth. And I admire you for the statement
12
that you've just made, strange as it may seem, Phil.
13
Then repeat the old shibboleth that I'm simply going
14
to embrace any candidate regardless of what his
15
views are. I can't do that. That is not the new
16
politics. That is not the new coalition we need
17
in this country.
18
PHILIP CRANE: Let me just ask one quick
19
question, Howard.
20
John, if there were a candidate running
21
on the position or the platform of unilateral dis-
22
armament of this country, is that not a single issue?
23
Would that not be a single issue?
24
JOHN ANDERSON: Well, it actually, I think,
61
1
involves an awful lot of things. That involves the
2
whole complex of foreign policy issues.
3
PHILIP CRANE: No, I'm talking about unilateral
4
disarmament, unilateral disarmament. That's a single
5
issue, John.
6
JOHN ANDERSON: That involves the whole complex
7
of issues. That involves the whole complex of
8
defense issues. That would be central.
9
PHILIP CRANE: John, you are as skillful a man
10
on the floor in debate as I've encountered in my
11
career. But I'm telling you that's a single issue,
12
John, and it's an issue upon which the republic's
13
fate would hinge, and I'm telling you that that's
14
enough to retire a man right there.
15
JOHN ANDERSON: Well, I'm not for unilateral--
16
I'm not for--
17
MODERATOR SMITH: Let me sum up. Two of you
18
do not agree to support any nominee from this room.
19
RONALD REAGAN: Well, my record is clear. In
20
the past I have always held out for Republican unity,
21
and I've always held out for supporting whoever
22
the party-- is the nominee when the contest if finally
23
over.
24
But, John, you really would find Teddy
62
1
Kennedy preferable to me?
2
JOHN ANDERSON: No, I-- if you could have been
3
with me on the campus of Bradley University two
4
nights ago, you would have been proud of me, I'm
5
sure, because I took Teddy Kennedy apart on a list
6
of at least seven issues where we have very fundamental
7
disagreements.
8
The one thing that concerns me, and you
9
are a friend, and I want to be very honest with you,
10
is that I do believe that on this whole question, as
11
I have read your basic speech, and maybe that isn't
12
the total exposition of your views. I didn't find
13
anything in that basic speech other than that the
14
United States must rearm, rearm. That was the
15
war cry that was issued, and there was nothing about
16
the corresponding obligation that I think we have
17
to try to travel the road toward peace.
18
MODERATOR SMITH: I think-- I think, gentlemen--
19
I think you've made your point.
20
Now, I still want to hear from Governor
21
Reagan. Will you support any man on this platform
22
who's nominated for the Republican presidential
23
nomination?
24
RONALD REAGAN: I'm still waiting for John to
63
1
answer.
2
MODERATOR SMITH: I think that the two said they
3
would not. You're the only one whose answer I haven't
4
heard.
5
RONALD REAGAN: Well, this is very difficult
6
now in this position that I seem to be hearing a
7
cry for another party here. And I have to ask myself
8
if he is really running as a Republican to be the
9
titular head of the party as well as our nation.
10
JOHN ANDERSON: Can I very quickly--
11
MODERATOR SMITH: Since you are under assault
12
you have an opportunity. Make it short, please,
13
Congressman.
14
JOHN ANDERSON: Can I very quickly say,
15
Governor, that I have learned that if you compete
16
in the Republican primary by the laws of that state
17
you cannot run on a independent ticket. And, believe
18
me, I'm going to be competing in California for the
19
159 delegates of that state. So don't worry--
20
RONALD REAGAN: It's 168.
21
JOHN ANDERSON: I'll take all of them.
22
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Bush.
23
GEORGE BUSH: Well, it seems to me the choice
24
is Jimmy Carter or Kennedy on one side and those
64
1
running on the Republican on the other. And I have
2
no difficulty saying I would support the Republican
3
nominee against four sitting here or Gerald Ford or
4
anybody else that I can conceive would be a serious
5
candidate if the alternative was Jimmy Carter or
6
Ted Kennedy. I'm sorry, I don't understand all this
7
talking about all these big issues. Everybody wants
8
peace. The question is how do you get there.
9
JOHN ANDERSON: George, I agree, you don't
10
understand talking about the issues.
11
GEORGE BUSH: But the question is this holding
12
back sanctimoniously talking about some coalition
13
to divide a minority party is no way to take control
14
of the Senate, no way to change the direction of
15
this country.
16
RONALD REAGAN: George, I'll even throw in
17
Jerry Brown, especially I'll throw in Jerry Brown.
18
GEORGE BUSH: I just don't understand.
19
PHILIP CRANE: You know, I said previously to
20
your letter, John, and some of your most recent
21
statements that the least qualified Republican in
22
this race was infinitely preferable to what the
23
Democrats had to offer. And when I say I couldn't
24
support you it's because I think, John, you have not
65
1
demonstrated fidelity to the party and that's come
2
up since. And I would argue that had you been in
3
the Democratic primary race, you would have been
4
far and away the classiest, most talented Democrat
5
that could have run in this contest. You're head
6
and shoulders above Jimmy, and you're head and
7
shoulders above Teddy and head and shoulders above
8
Jerry Brown. But I'm arguing you're in the wrong
9
party.
10
JOHN ANDERSON: I didn't know we had a loyalty
11
test in the Republican Party. I really didn't.
12
MODERATOR SMITH: Ladies and gentlemen, I think
13
we have exhausted that topic, we know where every-
14
body stands now. There's so many topics that we
15
haven't covered that I'm going to ask for a special
16
effort from the candidates.
17
A while ago I said your general positions
18
had become clear on issues. I would like to ask you
19
to let me name some issues and you tell me briefly,
20
even though the public has heard what you've said,
21
they haven't memorized what you've said, where you
stand in one sentence on the issues.
22
23
First of all, draft registration. Just
a sentence.
24
66
1
PHILIP CRANE: I'm opposed to draft registration.
2
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Bush?
3
GEORGE BUSH: I favor draft registration, I
4
oppose the draft, I support the volunteer army.
5
RONALD REAGAN: I oppose draft registration
6
and know that the president at the time that he
7
favored it had a report from the Selective Service
8
Director that it would only shorten the time period
9
for a draft army if it was needed by a few days and
10
it wasn't worth the bureaucracy it would create.
11
MODERATOR SMITH: That's two sentences, one
12
of which was very, very long.
13
RONALD REAGAN: I thought I put a semicolon
14
in there.
15
MODERATOR SMITH: Congressman?
16
JOHN ANDERSON: I am opposed to draft registration.
17
It is intended to lead, I believe, to the reinstitution
18
of a peace time draft to which I am also opposed.
19
MODERATOR SMITH: Wage and price controls, Mr.
20
Crane.
21
PHILIP CRANE: I am totally opposed and always
22
have been opposed and was outspokenly opposed when
23
Richard Nixon did it; it is as wrong today as it
24
was then because it attacks symptoms and not the cause
67
1
of the problem.
2
MODERATOR SMITH: Ambassador Bush?
3
GEORGE BUSH: Inasmuch as wage and price
4
controls lock in inequities and have failed under
5
Democrats and Republicans, I oppose wage and price
6
controls.
7
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Reagan.
8
RONALD REAGAN: I oppose them, and they failed
9
back when Diocletian tried them two thousand years
10
ago in Rome and he used capital punishment to
11
enforce them.
12
MODERATOR SMITH: I was very young then.
13
RONALD REAGAN: I'm the only one here old
14
enough to remember.
15
MODERATOR SMITH: Congressman Anderson, I'm
16
sure you don't remember that. Wage and price controls.
17
JOHN ANDERSON: I am opposed to wage and price
18
controls, although I do believe that the administration
19
has singly failed to maintain any reasonable wage
20
and price guidelines, and, therefore, if inflation
21
does not abate that we should look at a tax-based
22
incomes policy.
23
MODERATOR SMITH: How about nuclear power
24
which seems dead in the water in this country. Mr.
Crane?
68
1
PHILIP CRANE: Nuclear power continues to be
2
the safest, the cheapest and the cleanest form of
3
new energy to come on stream. I not only support
4
nuclear power, I support the breeder reactor.
5
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Bush?
6
GEORGE BUSH: I support nuclear power and
7
implementation of the Kimminey Commission Report
8
recommendation.
9
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Reagan?
10
RONALD REAGAN: I agree with them.
11
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Anderson.
12
JOHN ANDERSON: There should not be an expansion
13
of the nuclear power program unless within one year
14
Congress has put on the books a definitive statute
15
which selects an appropriate technology to deal
16
with the storage and management of waste and also
17
the legal mechanisms and procedures whereby that
18
could be accomplished.
19
MODERATOR SMITH: Boycotting the Olympics.
20
Mr. Crane.
21
PHILIP CRANE: I favor the boycot of the Olympics
22
the very night the president suggested that they
23
may lose some tourist business over there back in
24
January and insisted at the time that if we could
69
1
find an alternate site, all well and good. But
2
whether or not we could find an alternate site or
3
not, I think it. was wrong to consider going to
4
Moscow for the Olympics.
5
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Bush?
6
GEORGE BUSH: The Soviet people don't really
7
know what their government, their troops have done
8
in Afghanistan. They do know about the Olympic
9
games, and the truth will filter down when those
10
games are cancelled, and because the aggression was
11
so clear and so brutal, I support the boycot of
12
the Olympics.
13
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Reagan?
14
RONALD REAGAN: I would like to see them held
15
some place else rather than Moscow. I think it would
16
be hypocritical to go there, and I think we ought
17
to, maybe from this, get the inspiration to put the
18
Olympics permanently back where they started in
19
Greece and hold them there every four years.
20
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Anderson?
21
JOHN ANDERSON: I support the Olympic boycot
22
and agree that a permanent site for the Olympiad,
23
perhaps in Greece, would be the best solution.
24
MODERATOR SMITH: The Equal Rights Amendment.
Mr. Crane?
70
1
PHILIP CRANE: I voted against the extension
2
of the Equal Rights Amendment. I think it is
3
redundant, because I think the 14th Amendment provides
4
the adequate safeguards women are concerned about
5
with respect to access to jobs and equal pay for
6
equal work.
7
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Bush?
8
GEORGE BUSH: I voted for or sponsored and
9
support the Equal Rights Amendment.
10
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Reagan?
11
RONALD REAGAN: I'm for ER. I can't go along
12
with A. I would like to see equal rights by
13
statute and we did it in California and corrected
14
discrimination against women economically and in
15
other ways wherever we found it by statute. I'm
16
opposed to the amendment.
17
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Anderson?
18
JOHN ANDERSON: I wholeheartedly endorse the
19
Equal Rights Amendment and alone among the Republican
20
candidates supported the extension legislation which
21
is the only way to make sure that that amendment
22
will become part of the Constitution of this country.
MODERATOR SMITH: I would like to ask a final
23
24
question. Has Henry Kissinger got a political future?
71
1
Mr. Crane?
2
PHILIP CRANE: I've indicated one of the reasons
3
I want to stay in this race until we get to Detroit
4
is in the event Gerald Ford gets into the race he
5
indicated he'd like to put Henry Kissinger back in
6
at State, and I want to make sure he never gets back
7
in at State.
8
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Bush?
9
GEORGE BUSH: I'm sure he has a political future,
10
but I don't believe he would be the Secretary of
11
State in my administration.
12
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Reagan?
13
RONALD REAGAN: Nor in mine, and if he has
14
a political future, there are all sorts of sidelines
15
to it, studies, commenting, writing columns and so
16
forth.
17
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Anderson?
18
JOHN ANDERSON: I think Secretary Kissinger
19
has made some wonderful contributions in the course
20
of his distinguished career. I do believe that his
21
political future among some candidates has become
22
somewhat clouded by virtue of his recent mission to
23
California beseeching former President Ford to run
24
again.
72
1
MODERATOR SMITH: So now we're going to have
2
some questions from the floor. And the first is from
3
Mr. Bruce Begesky. All of the candidates will answer
4
this question briefly.
5
MR. BRUCE BEGESKY: Gentlemen, I'm receiving
6
unemployment compensation that covers my living
7
expenses. Even though I wish to work, I have been
8
forced to turn down job offers because they do not
9
pay as much as unemployment.
10
What would you do to change the situation?
11
PHILIP CRANE: Well, I think very frankly that
12
unemployment compensation is already overly generous.
13
And I would argue that you should not be turning
14
down a job opportunity if it presents itself because
15
you are putting a strain on some other person who's
16
trying to feed his family and pay the taxes that
17
carry you in unemployment when you've already
18
acknowledged that you had job offers you've turned
19
down because you didn't like the pay differential.
20
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Bush?
21
GEORGE BUSH: The system has to be changed so
22
nobody can make that kind of statement where jobs
23
are available but he does better to not work. The
24
system must be reformed so that kind of abuse is
73
1
eliminated. Welfare rolls are down and that's good.
2
But that doesn't mean that it's been perfected. And
3
what you need to do is help people who want to get
4
a job and can't, not a guy who can get a job and
5
doesn't take it.
6
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Reagan?
7
RONALD REAGAN: Well, I have to answer the
8
same way, that I think this is one of the great faults
9
in the program. We found in California, however,
10
that when we required people who were on assistance
11
and were able bodied to work at useful community
12
projects in return for their grant, that we then,
13
even in the midst of the 1973-'74 recession, funneled
14
76,000 able bodied recipients of grants into private
15
enterprise jobs while unemployment was increasing.
16
You're absolutely right, that the system
17
has gotten so out of balance that today a man with
18
a family will find that he actually, when he considers
19
taxes on what he would earn in a job, that a man
20
many times will find that his benefits would make
21
it necessary for him to get $20,000 a year in order
22
to equal the benefits that he is getting tax free
23
from the Government, and that is absolutely wrong.
24
There's no excuse for that.
74
1
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Anderson?
2
JOHN ANDERSON: Well, I certainly must agree
3
that any able bodied young American, and you appear
4
to be such from your appearance, ought to be working
5
rather than drawing unemployment compensation if a
6
job is available.
7
Now, the minimum wage in this country
8
at the present time is $3.10 an hour which works
9
out to $6,200 a year. I don't happen to know whether
10
or not you are married and whether you're supporting
11
a family or not, but it would seem to me that you
12
ought to be accepting those job offers if for no
13
other reason. You will be preparing yourself and
14
acquiring the kind of job skills that you need to
15
take your place in the world of work. And I have
16
even favored the youth opportunity wage that would
17
give teenage unemployed people in this country a
18
chance to go work at 85 percent of the minimum,
19
simply so that they can have that opportunity to
20
gain work experience. And I would hope very much
21
that you would make that decision.
22
MODERATOR SMITH: The next question from Mr.
23
Donald Neltnor.
24
MR. DONALD NELTNOR: Gentlemen, if elected
75
1
president what would be your plan to solve the
2
problems of the northern industrial cities like
3
Chicago. Specifically, what would you do to stimulate
4
the local economy and reduce innercity unemployment,
5
improve education, and would you continue revenue
6
sharing?
7
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Crane?
8
PHILIP CRANE: That's a big mouthful. Let me
9
say first of all that when we address the problems
10
of urban areas that one must recognize that there
11
are some reasons, and the reasons, I think, go beyond
12
just the climate. For some cities in the sun belt
13
to be thriving at the same time other northern cities
14
are suffering. And I think one of the reasons is
15
because of the hostile tax climate for business in
16
many of our northern cities.
17
I think the Federal Government, too, has
18
to assume responsibility. In Youngstown, Ohio,
19
recently for example, Youngstown Sheet and Tube had
20
a plant that went under there and one of the reasons
21
why it went under was because of the application of
22
an EPA reg that according to union officials I spoke
23
to was the straw the broke the camel's back. And
24
as the former mayor told me at that time, he said,
76
1
"You want to see urban blight? This is how it starts.
2
We just lost 4,600 taxpayers, and we lost the tax
3
base of that plant."
4
As far as education goes, I think we have
5
got to develop a sound, healthy vocational technical
6
training program in our schools, and that's not just
7
in the inner city, that's throughout the suburban
8
areas and rural areas, too. We've sorely neglected
9
vocational technical training.
10
On the revenue sharing question, frankly
11
I don't like revenue sharing. I like it better than
12
categorical grant made programs, but I think a
13
superior approach would be to enable a person to get
14
a credit against payment of his Federal income taxes
15
for "X" percent of that going to Springfield in our
16
home state of Illinois in the form of payments to
17
the state, another percentage going to the county and
18
another percentage going to the municipality in which
19
you live. That would prevent the bureauocrats in
20
Washington from skimming money off the top, and
21
secondly it would give local communities and local
22
states the flexibility to determine the kind of
23
programs they wanted and how they chose to address
24
them.
77
1
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Bush?
2
GEORGE BUSH: I favor revenue sharing. I believe
3
that job training credits, job tax credits to get
4
business to locate in areas of high unemployment, and
5
that would be important. I believe mass transit is
6
important. I believe reading, writing, arithmetic,
7
fourth "R", respect, in schools to give people a
8
real shot at a job when they get through. In some
9
of these cities it's terribly difficult. And I think
10
that means Government assistance. But you can't in
11
just 30 seconds say it all. But it has to be stimu-
12
lation of the private sector.
13
And then on the housing side I favor
14
in existence Section 8 housing as opposed to building
15
these kind of ghetto containing monsterous concrete
16
things. And that would be a cheaper way of solving
17
your-- assisting the cities with their housing needs, too.
18
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Reagan?
19
RONALD REAGAN: 75 percent of the people in the
20
country live in cities. And what we really have now
21
with the Federal aid to the cities, including inner
22
cities and so forth, is Chicago sending its money
23
to Washington, and some of that is used to help
24
Philadelphia and Detroit and New York and so forth.
78
1
But New York and Detroit and Philadelphia are sending
2
their money to Washington to help Chicago and
3
Indianapolis and St. Louis and there is an administrative
4
overhead to this round trip of our money.
5
The Federal Government is trying to be all
6
things to all people and dictate how that money will
7
be spent when it comes back to the city. Wouldn't
8
it make more sense if we stopped that round trip
9
and the deduction of that carrying charge in Washington
10
and left the tax sources at the local level for
11
local government to not only be responsible for the
12
tax, but to be able to establish their own priorities
13
as to where the money is going to be used and how it
14
should be spent.
15
The Mayor of Macon, Georgia, just
16
recently was telling me that Washington has got a
17
big grant for him which he can't turn down. If he
18
takes this grant he has to rebuild all the buses in
19
Macon, Georgia, to provide for the handicapped. But
20
he said in Macon, Georgia, they found out that if they
21
have their own way in spending that money instead of
22
taking Government orders that they could for a much
lesser amount establish a contract with the cab
23
24
companies that any handicapped person could call and
79
1
get a cab any time they wanted it to go any place they
2
wanted to go instead of rebuilding all the buses.
3
It is time, I think, for not only local
4
rule to be given back, local autonomy, but sources
5
of revenue that the Federal Government has usurped
6
should be given back, and the cities themselves
7
will do a better job of spending that money than they
8
have to when they take the dictates of the Federal
9
Government.
10
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Anderson?
11
JOHN ANDERSON: Well, Mr. Smith, as I remember
12
it the question related specifically to the City of
13
Chicago, and I would say that perhaps given the
14
current tensions that exist between Mayor Byrne and
15
the Carter administration because of her support of
16
another candidate that maybe the quickest remedy of
17
that case would be some change in administration at
18
either end.
19
But I recall, for example, Secretary
20
Goldschmidt's decision to withhold more than 2
21
billion dollars in discretionary highway funds for
22
this area because of the political implications. And
23
I was outraged, and I think properly so, and condemned
24
the Secretary for that decision.
80
1
I do believe that on the larger question
2
of Federal aid to cities we must have an urban
3
strategy that recognizes that many of our great
4
cities particularly in the upper midwest and in the
5
northeast, because of the flight to the sun belt have
6
lost some of the industrial base that they once had.
7
And housing stock has deteriorated. And I believe--
8
I made a speech for a half an hour this afternoon
9
to. the National Neighborhood Development Association
10
in which I outlined a very long program about
11
specific steps that I would recommend in an urban
12
strategy. I think that instead of all the emphasis
13
by the Department of Housing and Urban Development
14
on new housing that we have to develop the idea of
15
rehabilitation. We've got to preserve existing
16
housing stock. We've got to be more interested, I
17
think in preserving the basic intrastructure of our
18
cities, paying attention to the streets, the maintenance
19
and the repair of streets.
20
New York, for example, the Mayor the other
21
day said it would take 40 billion dollars over the
22
next 10 years and they only had 1.4 billion dollars
23
they could budget for the repair and maintenance of
24
basic services within the city.
81
1
MODERATOR SMITH: Could you round that out,
2
Congressman?
3
JOHN ANDERSON: I think the emphasis has to be
4
made to that.
5
MODERATOR SMITH: All right. Time is getting
6
upon us.
7
The next question, the third question
8
from Robert Harris.
9
MR. ROBERT HARRIS: Gentlemen, my question is
10
this. If during your presidency you had occasion
11
to appoint a justice to the United States Supreme
12
Court, which justice presently serving on the Court
13
would you most like your appointee to emulate and
14
why?
15
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Crane?
16
PHILIP CRANE: To one who is a strict con-
17
structionist as they say and one who takes the
18
intent of the founding fathers when they drafted that
19
Constitution very seriously, I'm not enthralled with
20
any member of the United States Supreme Court today.
21
I'd like to replace all nine of them. And, in fact,
22
I really think that Thomas Jefferson's concern about
23
the potential tyranny in a Federal judiciary was a
24
concern that really speaks to the kinds of aggressive
82
1
courts that we've had in the past 25 years. Frankly,
2
I think the Federal judiciary has involved itself
3
in vastly too many areas where we should not be
4
seeking ultimate resolution of problems, but rather
5
enjoy a little bit of tolerance for diversity
6
which to me was one of the greatest strengths of
7
the country and that means keeping the Feds out of
8
state business for the most part.
9
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Bush?
10
GEORGE BUSH: Well, I hate to be left in
11
responsive to get into names on the Court. I'm
12
colored by friendship for some of the justices that
13
I know, have great respect for them. But I don't
14
think it's right to sit down and say which of the
15
justices would emulate your-- what I would say is this.
16
I want strict construction. I want
17
scholarship. I don't want somebody that's going to
18
conform with me on every single issue, wouldn't seek
19
that out. I'd seek out excellence and an ability
20
to interpret the Constitution of the United States.
21
But I'm not going to give you-- click off
22
one name out of nine, and I do have respect for the
23
institution of the Court, and I disagree with Phil,
24
I have respect for this Court.
83
1
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Reagan?
2
RONALD REAGAN: Well, I don't-- I'm not going
3
to pick out a name. I frankly wouldn't know that
4
much about their records. I think there are a few,
5
they're usually on the minority side of the question
6
that they decide that I would find myself more
7
approving of. But I just wondered about something,
8
because my mind went to one of the great all time
9
justices of the United States Supreme Court, John
10
Marshall, who wasn't even a lawyer. Maybe that's
11
what's wrong.
12
I think I have to go along with what's
13
been said. I believe that the Court has dangerously
14
in recent years usurped some of the problems of the
15
Legislature and that we need to restore the separation
16
of power between Executive, Legislative and Judiciary,
17
and I would want one who was a Constitutionalist,
18
who believed in interpreting the Constitution, not
19
rewriting it.
20
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Anderson?
21
JOHN ANDERSON: Well, Mr. Smith, we in Illinois,
22
of course, are very proud of Justice John Paul
23
Stephens who was appointed to the high Court by
24
President Ford. However, I wouldn't want to restrict
84
1
I think my consideration of that appointment to a
2
single individual presently serving either. And I
3
would agree that judicial experience although
4
important, and I would certainly want to consult with
5
members of the Bar and the Judicial Conference and
6
so on. I can think back on a man, Hugo Black, his
7
prior judicial experience was being a police court
8
judge and after that, of course, served two terms
9
or three in the United States Senate. Again, I
10
think he left his mark as one of the distinguished
11
jurists of this 20th century.
12
So I think I would want a man who was
13
broadly compassionate, who had great humanitarian
14
instincts, a man who realizes that this country and
15
its people are constantly evolving and changing
16
and who would make a great progressive record on
17
that Court.
18
MODERATOR SMITH: Well, gentlemen, the time has
19
now come for the closing statements. Each of you
20
has one minute, just one minute to make a closing
21
statement.
22
Mr. Crane?
23
PHILIP CRANE: First of all, I want to quickly
24
congratulate the League of Women Voters for sponsoring
85
1
these kind of national town meetings. I think it's
2
healthy, I think it's desirable, I think it provides
3
the electorate with an understanding, better under-
4
standing at least of the nature of the candidates.
5
And I am still waiting expectantly to see our
6
Democratic counterparts engage in a similar exercise,
7
because the quicker they do, the quicker we'll elect
8
a Republican president in November and simultaneously
9
get a Republican Congress.
10
And I would say further that the Republican
11
Party at this moment in history, I think, is in
12
the best position, not because as Republicans we have
13
any unique monopoly on truth. But we certainly have
14
alternatives that are calculated to guarantee that
15
we can get the nation back on a growth track, that
16
we can restore the incentive, that we can practice
17
the kind of restraint in Federal spending and
18
Federal interference in our lives that's essential
19
if we're going to preserve freedom for all Americans,
20
Democrats and independents included, and simultaneously
21
guarantee a defense capability superior to all others
22
in this world.
23
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Bush?
24
GEORGE BUSH: Well, it's my conviction that the
86
1
United States is coming out of a recent period in
2
history that will prove to be an anomaly. Post
3
Viet Nam, Watergate, election of a president that
4
was not experienced. I believe that we should be
5
optomistic Americans. I realize these problems are
6
great, but if we emphasize productivity and show
7
our compassion, not by Government spending, but by
8
getting jobs and raising the level of education,
9
we can make things better for people at home. And
10
if we keep our defenses up, we can deter an aggressive
11
Soviet Union, we can keep strong and thus guarantee
12
two decades of peace.
13
I believe this firmly. I think my
14
experience qualifies me to be president, and I need
15
your support.
16
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Reagan.
17
RONALD REAGAN: In 1776 Thomas Payne said to
18
the American people in these 13 little colonies
19
were trying to become a nation that we had it in our
20
power to begin the world over again. I think he was
21
talking to and about the people of those 13 colonies.
22
I feel that way about the people of the United States.
23
I had an experience that taught me that
24
it's true that if you turn to the people of this
87
1
country instead of Government intervention, if you
2
turn as I did when I was Governor, and I think that
3
that was the second top executive government position
4
in the United States, because it is the most popular
5
state, California, and as I say, had the same problems
6
that we face today nationally. And I turned and
7
asked for volunteer help to come in to go through
8
Government bureaus and agencies and come back to me
9
with recommendations as to how modern business
10
practices could be put to work to make Government
11
more effective and more economical. And that is
12
why we were able to give back $5,700,000,000. They
13
brought back 1,800 recommendations and we implemented
14
1,600 of them. And I just believe that the greatest
15
issue-- we've talked about all these other things
16
here. I think all of them rise from one thing.
17
We have seen over recent decades a policy
18
of intervention in the people's affairs by Government
19
that goes beyond what was ever intended by the
20
Constitution of the founding fathers. And it is time
21
to have leadership in Washington that will get
22
Government off the people's backs, remove the road
23
blocks and turn the people of this country loose to
24
achieve the great things that they have achieved
88
3
1
before and which they can achieve again.
2
And I would like to have your support
3
because that's what I would like to do is free
4
the people of this country.
5
MODERATOR SMITH: Mr. Anderson?
6
JOHN ANDERSON: Mr. Smith, I was once asked
7
what is the most important attribute of a presidential
8
candidate. Is it character, is it experience, is it
9
the ability to put together the nuts and bolts of
10
a great political machine? I said all of those things
11
may be important, but I think you've missed the
12
point. The most important thing is does the candidate
13
have a vision for the future of the country. In
14
addition to that vision, does he have some new
15
ideas, some creative ideas that are designed to
16
solve the problems of the people.
17
I have tried to be honest during this
18
campaign, sometimes, I think, maybe almost painfully
19
honest in my response to the specific questions that
20
have been put to me. Because I believe so very
21
fundamentally that we are facing a crisis in the
22
history of this country, and that the candidate that
23
ought to be nominated and elected as the next president
24
of the United States ought to be that candidate who
89
1
is willing to face very specifically, not talk in the
2
same old glib generalities and the platitudes and
3
the pieties of past campaigns about leadership and
4
greatness and strength and power and all the rest,
5
but someone who is willing to do what I have been
6
willing to do in prescribing, programatically and
7
very specifically where cuts in the Federal budget
8
must be made, knowing full well that that may step
9
on the toes of this or that particular interest
10
group. Prescribing a specific program on how to
11
deal with the energy program, to cut down the awful
12
drain on this economy, 90 to 100 billion dollars a
13
year flowing overseas, tearing up the very fabric
14
of the American economy. That hasn't earned me the
15
undying gratitude and support of everyone.
16
But I'm going to continue this campaign
17
on the theory and on the belief that that's the kind
18
of president the American people are looking for.
19
MODERATOR SMITH: Gentlemen, that concludes
20
our forum for this evening. I want to-- on behalf
21
of the League of Women Voters I'd like to thank the
22
candidates for joining us here in Chicago and keeping
23
interest not only alive, but growing in the American
24
electoral process.
90
1
Our next forum series will take place
2
on April the 22nd, if the Democrats join us, and
3
the 23rd for the Republicans in Houston, Texas.
4
We invite the candidates and you, the
5
American public, to join us as the process of choosing
6
the next president continues.
7
Thank you and good night.
8
(Which were all the
9
proceedings had this date.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
91
1
STATE OF ILLINOIS )
) SS:
2
COUNTY OF C OOK)
3
4
I, BARBARA BARNARD, being first duly sworn,
5
on oath, says that she is a court reporter doing
6
business in the City of Chicago; that she reported
7
in shorthand the proceedings given at the taking of
8
this hearing and that the foregoing is a true and
9
correct transcript of her shorthand notes so taken
10
as aforesaid, and contains all the proceedings given
11
at said hearing.
12
13
Certified Shorthand Reporter
14
15
16
17
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO
18
before me this 18 day
19
of March, 1980.
20
21
Themis
Notary Public
22
23
24