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[Ecology] - Review of the California Ecology Corps (hearing before Committee on Efficiency and Cost Control, June 1972) (2 of 3)
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118564950
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[Ecology] - Review of the California Ecology Corps (hearing before Committee on Efficiency and Cost Control, June 1972) (2 of 3)
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Ronald Reagan Presidential Library Digital Library Collections This is a PDF of a folder from our textual collections. Collection: Reagan, Ronald: Gubernatorial Papers, 1966-74: Press Unit Folder Title: [Ecology] - Review of the California Ecology Corps (hearing before Committee on Efficiency and Cost Control, June 1972) (2 of 3) Box: P34 To see more digitized collections visit: https://reaganlibrary.gov/archives/digital-library To see all Ronald Reagan Presidential Library inventories visit: https://reaganlibrary.gov/document-collection Contact a reference archivist at: [email protected] Citation Guidelines: https://reaganlibrary.gov/citing National Archives Catalogue: https://catalog.archives.gov/ When I was talking with committee staff this morning and was asked a question that, at that time I didn't have the answer to it and the question was, you know, why all the gripes? You know, if people don't like a regular employee, if he doesn't like that job situation, you know, he simply, you know, he either just leaves. And so I'd address myself just to this point. I wrote up a statement over noon and I don't have copies. I'll try to get copies to you. (Appendix E) CHAIRMAN CULLEN: We'd like to hear it. Proceed with your first statement. MR. WHITE: As Mr. Stearns pointed out, a major function of the Corps is to create a force of trained wildland fire fighters to replace the dwindling supply of inmates in the conser- vation camp program, I think is clearly understood. In order to justify this investment in training volunteers as fire fighters, the Corps' administrators have also asked volunteers to commit themselves for a six month period in the Corps. And forestry personnel have talked - that I have talked with, have observed it took even a longer time. It takes a full fire season at least to properly train a fire fighter and that only after two sea- sons, does one really become a proficient fire fighter. I think that was the statement on the conservation camp program that the people in that are one of the best fire fighting forces in the country because they are well trained and they have been in the program for a while. If allowed to go on it would seem highly advantageous to offer corpsmen a program sufficiently attractive to encourage re- -64- enlistment after the six months, if not at least to insure volunteers will stay in the Corps for the initial six month period. Volunteers, speaking both for C.O.'s and the regular volunteers, right now a majority of C.O.'s as well as some volunteers have given up all hope of any corrective change occurring in the Corps and are almost ready to abandon the thing. I don't know whether . this is true or not. Sometimes I have feelings like everyone is ready to abandon the Corps and other times I see a ray of hope. And, you know, the Corps is very definitely worth preserving and, you know, we should, you know, work to make the changes. And, the question, you know, back to the question and that's I don't think that the corpsmen are asking, you know, these problems be handled by their taking control of the administrative aspects of the program. And I think that's unrealistic and I don't think they are asking that. I think what they are asking is they be given an opportunity to express their viewpoints and to make positive suggestions like we have tried to make in the petition to the Corps administrator so that they can work together. We can work for responsible change in the program. I think all of us want to see the Corps work, the administrator and the corpsmen. And now back to the question that I talked with committee staff about and that is normally there are two avenues through which an employee can protest unsatisfactory working conditions. They can either talk to their people above them and express their dis- satisfaction with the problems, about the problems, and hope that a solution can be reached. And if that doesn't accomplish anything, --65- then they can leave. They have the option of leaving us and finding a better job. And I don't think at the present time that either of these avenues are really available to corpsmen and, I think, this is why there is frustration in the situation. I think, you know, this is what they are. I would ask for at least a chance and what I'm asking for is that avenues be made available to them. As I said, most of the frustration felt by corpsmen is because of lack of contact and lack of response from administrators in the Corps. Primarily lack of contact where contact has been made in grievances expressed to top administrators, there has been some, you know, hope of change. I think primarily when you are out - I know I speak from personal experience. When you are out in the field, the policy decisions that are made in Sacramento are a long way away from, you know, you and you have no real access to them. I personally came down twice last summer on my days off to talk about change and I was very - I talked to Mr. Stearns and Jerry Newton and, you know, I was --- felt like there was a chance. One of the things we talked about was getting together corps-wide meetings to discuss some of the problems and I felt that was a very positive thing. Those meetings, by the way, have not been instituted. And after the last hearing, the Senate Finance Committee hearing, Mr. Griggs said that they would not be instituted; that there would no longer be any. I was very disappointed in that when he made that statement. So that, you know, there hasn't been the ability or availability -66- of - for corpsmen to reach and talk to the top administrators, the ones that can change the program unless they are at least there. There hasn't been a recognized program. A few individuals have gone and talked to them, but not any organized program as such. And the second option that most of them have, that of quitting the jobs, you know, that if conditions are intolerable, isn't available really on a realistic basis to most of the -- either the corpsmen or the volunteers at the present time. The volunteers that are coming into the program until - well, in the past they were in the past largely C.O.'s and while they had the option in one sense of not going in, they had to find some sort of alternate service employment and I think many of them did go into the Corps. I know myself personally I went in with the hopes if it wasn't an Ecology Corps, that it would become an Ecology Corps and the work would be a vital contribution. The conservation work is a valid contribution. But once in the Corps, in order to leave the Corps you have to petition or ask for permission to leave the Corps and as Mr. Stearns said, this is being granted, you know, where there are extenuating circumstances. But it isn't granted across the board. I have a personal friend at Calaveras that found another job in Oakland working with a -- driving a truck for a breakfast program down there that was approved by the State Selective Service Director. The director of C.O. work, Paul - Mr. McCann, and he said it was approved on the basis that you get a release from - -67- he was at the Calaveras Camp and he went back, did talk to Mr. Peterson. Mr. Peterson wouldn't grant him a release and so he debated what he should do. And finally ended up quitting, taking the chance of being prosecuted, and went into the other job. As it turned out, there was no prosecution. They have approved the other job. But, you know, he was forced, you know, to take that chance and the jail threat that hung over him. With corpsmen there is a problem and I think it does prevent most corpsmen from just going out and finding a better job. Still, at the same time, many of them are doing exactly this, taking a chance and finding other jobs. In some cases I think some of the administrators are very freely letting corpsmen leave if they find a job and I think that's good. In a personal case again, my present roommate was on special assignment down to the Department of Conservation also working with the administrative aid. Since that type of position he found another job with HRD that p d $700 a month that was approved by the Selective Service and they released him and let him go into the program, which I think should be the case with all C.O.'s if they would allow them to be released, assuming that they are going into other alternate service. And that should be a question not dealt with by the -- with the department or the Ecology Corps administration, but should be left up to the Selective Service. If Selective Service -- if this is agreeable to them, then I think that should be turned over to them. The other volunteers that are now in the program, most of them are being recruited from the unemployed young men and they don't -68- have a real option either, I don't think, because many of them don't have a real option either, I don't think, because many of them don't have skills. The present job situation keeps them from going out and finding a -- without skills, finding a job readily and so they don't have a real option. They either have the option of welfare or the Corps and one corpsman, I don't have his name, but I talked to at Humboldt, you know, said he was getting fat on welfare so he thought he would try the Corps for a bit. And I think that's admirable because he's going to lower pay. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Mr. Carlson will probably request a hundred copies of that statement. MR. WHITE: Another thing, and I don't know what the case is, and I think that this - but I know of -- of one case at the Tehama Ecology Center that I interviewed and I have heard of several other cases at the Inyo Ecology Center, of a person, young man that was on -- was given the option of - he was up in - one was at Tehama and he was up for a sentence, criminal offense for evasion of driving tickets and he was given the option of either being put on probation or going into the Corps, and evidently this is being done in a number of cases more than I had expected, because I found - I heard about this also at Inyo. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: I'm going to have to pick up the pace before I start losing a couple of members. If you will conclude. MR. WHITE: So, they don't have a real option. And another thing I discovered, a friend of mine, his brother applied for the work as a summer fire fighter and was told there are not many -69- jobs available and was directed to join the Ecology Corps. So -- and they don't have a real choice if they were to join the Corps for the summer. And problems came up and they couldn't leave, they wouldn't have the real choice of leaving the job to find other work because the jobs would already be taken. So that I think that, you know, we need to change the conditions in the Corps so that these two options that most other employees have are available. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: All right. You made your point there clear. Is that about it? MR. WHITE: That's about the sum of it. ASSEMBLYMAN SEELEY: Just one question. What is your position? MR. WHITE: My position, I'm an ecology corpsman and I'm on special assignment as an assistant, a special assistant to the Information Officer, Jerry Newton, to the Department of Conservation. And the work involves - has involved going out to the centers some, going out to the centers, photographing the photographs that are on the attached sheets are one set I have taken, and going to the centers photographing, doing the lay out on the news letter and other design jobs and some writing. ASSEMBLYMAN SEELEY: Are you on the $40 a month salary? MR. WHITE: I'm on the $40 a month salary. Because I'm on special assignment, we are given $5 per day per diem to take care of living expenses down here in Sacramento. ASSEMBLYMAN SEELEY: You ought to be in the Legislature. We get $30. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Do you know whether there are any other $40- -70- a-month men in Sacramento? MR. WHITE: There was this other one, my roommate, and he's no longer - he's got this other job. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Are there any other witnesses that have anything to say? ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Can I ask a question? CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Excuse me. Just a minute. Mr. Wilson. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Yes. You indicated that people become more proficient at fire fighting in their second year? MR. WHITE: This is what I was told when I was talking to some of the forest fighters, forestry personnel. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Excuse me. Are the wages scaled up so that a person would have an incentive to stay so that you would have people coming into their second year? What I'm saying, do the wages go up if you are there? The first year you get $40. If you are there the second year, you get more, so they can retain people, more skilled? MR. WHITE: As far as general policy, no. There is one opportunity and that is there is a pay difference between the Corps leaders. They have a position of Corps leader and Corps assistant leader, which an assistant leader gets $45 and a Corps leader gets $40 and - CHAIRMAN CULLEN: No. You mean $50? Forty-five dollars and $50? MR. WHITE: Forty-five dollars and $50. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: So then there is no increase in wages and, therefore, no incentive unless you go to a Corps leader. -71- If you remain a corpsman and not a Corps leader, you would re- ceive no wages, no increase in wages? MR. WHITE: None that I know of. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Young man, you may identify yourself. APPEARANCE OF MR. RICHARD HANSON, CORPSMAN, INYO ECOLOGY CENTER. MR. RICHARD HANSON: My Name is Richard Hanson, Inyo Ecology Center. I'm from Glenwood, Minesota. I was ordered here. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Excuse me. I want to interrupt. I think we are finished with you three gentlemen, right? Okay. Would you give up your seats and could I ask Major McCann, Mr. Griggs and Mr. Stearns to join us at the witness table. APPEARANCE OF MAJOR WILLIAM D. McCANN, CHIEF, ALTERNATE SERVICE PROGRAM, CALIFORNIA HEADQUARTERS, SELECTIVE SERVICE SYSTEM, ACCOMPANIED BY MR. JAMES STEARNS, DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION, AND MR. JOE GRIGGS, ADMINISTRATOR OF THE CALIFORNIA ECOLOGY CORPS. All right. I intend to explore these men that have come in from out-of-state and, Major McCann, you are probably the best source of authority as to the Selective Service Act. Do you recall what the food allowance is at any base or on board any ship? MAJOR McCANN: I think the compensation given is $40, $45 per month. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Well, I'm talking about the commissary stewards who expect to feed 150 men. MAJOR McCANN: I have never been in the Navy. I don't know CHAIRMAN CULLEN: I thought maybe in the Army - MAJOR McCANN: I'm in the Air Force. I'm in the Air Force and I can't answer that. -72- CHAIRMAN CULLEN: All right, sir, from Minnesota. Could you tell us in some detail how the California Ecology Corps came to your attention and what alternatives were presented to you and by whom? MR. HANSON: As it worked out, after I finished my two years at a vocational school, I graduated from Alexander in Minnesota. I applied for my conscientious objector status and received it in September, the middle of September, 1971. And then at that time I was told that I would be given 30 days to find alternate service and present it to the local board, which they would decide whether it was appropriate or not. Well, I worked quite extensively trying to find a job. I went to the state hospitals and they were telling me that funds were being cut short and they were actually having to lay people off. I tried many different areas and was unable to come up with a job. So then I left it to them to find me a job, which was only - the only alternative I had. And they came, I believe, it was in December and told me that the only opening that they had in the State for a conscientious objector was in -- was the Ecology Corps in California. And they said that -- well, I asked them if there was anything else. They said no. This is the place we have got and we are sending all of the C.O.'s there. And this was the only option I was given. It was said that I was supposed to be given three options. I was not. They told me that the only thing that -- they said I had a choice. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: When you say they, will you tell us who? -73- MR. HANSON: The local draft board. My papers, which were orders, the information was okayed by the State Selective Service. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Were you talking to the secretary at the front desk or to the chairman of the Board, or to whom? MR. HANSON: To the Selective Service secretary in our county and she told me that I - either I could either volunteer or I would be ordered. You know. That was my choice. I had to either volunteer or they'd order me here. So that was the situation. It was cut and dired that I would be going and that was the only alternative I had was to do that. Otherwise if I refused to do it, then it would be like re- fusing an order to go into the military and I would be under the same circumstances as that. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Who paid you passage? MR. HANSON: Being that I couldn't personally afford that, I was given a bus ticket and food tickets and I came out here on the bus. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Who's going to pay your way back? MR. HANSON: I don't believe that there is any provisions for paying. MAJOR McCANN: There is. MR. HANSON: There may be. I haven't been notified of it, anyway. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: That is very interesting. MR. HANSON: All I wanted to re-emphasize is my support for the petition and the feeling that it's unanimous at our camp that these things must be resolved if the Corps is going to continue -74- as a satisfactory program. And if it was mentioned today that the minimum wage, they, you know, feel that we should have the minimum wage, then I feel they should work for it and see that we get it because the food -- if we got more money we could supplement the extra food if we can't increase the food budget. And I think the pay and the overall thing would keep a better morale and conditions at the center. And the thing is, I feel real bad, there's people that have been there from the beginning of it that have just - I mean, they are just leaving, just steadily every week. There's more and more that are just leaving there trying to find other jobs to out of there. There is very few that feel any hope that they'll finish all their time there. They just - you know, it's not something that they can really take pride in and enjoy and say they are proud of it. So, some of these things that we've mentioned, if they can be brought about, I feel would make the program quite a successful thing and I personally feel that until these things come about to expand it and start more ecology centers and everything would just be wrong and the directors of the things can, you know, come up and make statements and everything and say that everything is all right. But we live there everyday and we know what it's like and these things are just coming to the point of just frustration and intolerability. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: All right, sir. We'll accept your endorse- ment of the petition. I want to get back to Minnesota, the earlier witness. Do you have a question, Mr. Wilson? -75- ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: I have been assuming throughout that your net pay is $40 per month. Is that correct, or do you have things taken out of that? MR. HANSON: No. It is just one flat check with no deductions taken out of it. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: What is your colleague's name? What is your name again? MR. BONANDER: Mark. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Would you run over again the conversation you had with your draft board. Was it with the secretary or a member of the Board? MR. BONANDER: Well, it was with, I don't know. The assistant to the State Director, I guess. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: And - MR. BONANDER: I asked him for job opportunities and, well, he sent me, I don't know, a stack of things. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: What do you mean by stack? MR. BONANDER: Pages. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Pages of available jobs in Minnesota or throughout the nation? MR. BONANDER: In Minnesota. I also contacted other states. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: When did the idea of California Ecology Corps come to your attention? MR. BONANDER: Well, they sent me a pamphlet and told me -- CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Who's they? MR. BONANDER: Well, the assistant to the State Director of - CHAIRMAN CULLEN: All right. -76- MR. BONANDER: Selective Service. And they told me, well, this would probably be the best thing. Well, I looked and looked for a job and found nothing. So, I went back and talked to them and he said, well, California Ecology Corps would be the best place. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: I see. MR. BONANDER: Well, see, I had a time limit, too. I, you know, they give you, you know, they are kind of, well, how would you say, strict, I guess. They want you to perform your duty or your alternate service as quick as possible. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: But you weren't told in so many words like your colleague that you either volunteered or they would order you regardless? MR. BONANDER: Well, I - CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Explicitly. Were you told as he was that we could either volunteer or they'd order him? MR. BONANDER: No. I wasn't told that either I join or I'd have to be ordered here. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: All right. Now, you were in the - near the capitol. You were talking to the Minnesota State Director? MR. BONANDER: Mainly the assistant. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Whereas your colleague was talking to the local draft board? MR. BONANDER: Yes. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: All right. Let's turn to Major McCann. As you presume, Major, it has come to the attention of the Legislature apparently for the first time that the California Ecology Corps has -77- a number of corpsmen from out of state and I'll find out how many later, but what are the applicable federal laws with respect to cutting orders, sending a man from one state to another such as California in order to fulfill his federal obligation? MAJOR McCANN: There's no restriction in the Selective Service law to restrict a man to perform his alternate service in the state where he is from anymore than there is a law in the Selective Service law that says a person who's going to serve in the armed forces must serve in his home state. At the present time in California we have approximately 1,000 out-of-state conscientious objectors performing their al- ternate service in this state, which we are responsible for their two years of service. Conversely to that, we have a number of California boys who are serving their alternate service in other states. The men who come to California to serve their alternate service, of course, come here under an order. In the Selective Service law, Congress stipulated that there really are two types of service that young men can perform. He can either perform military service or alternate service. Both types of service are parallel except that the man who is classified as a conscientious objector can perform this work in some kind of a non-profit tax- exempt organization, either governmental or private. The conscientious objector is given an opportunity to find his own work that he would prefer to perform. Now, he is given a certain amount of time to do this. Now, in this state we are quite liberal in this aspect. We give them as much time as we can to -78- place them in work that they feel they could perform to the best advantage. After a certain period of time, however, it becomes necessary, the state director has the obligation to assign that man to an alternate service job. He must do this. If the man himself either doesn't choose to find his own work or cannot, he must be then assigned. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: And may he be assigned anywhere in the nation? MAJOR McCANN: He may with concurrence of the state director of that particular state. Now, we have a policy that we must make sure it's an acceptable organization. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Do you keep records on those approximate 1,000 C.O.'s, approximately, assigned to alternate jobs in California? MAJOR McCANN: Yes, I do. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Do you know how many are assigned to California Ecology Corps? MAJOR McCANN: And I'm guessing becuase I didn't check before I came over here. I'd say between 40 and 50 C.O.'s. Now, that's a question on my part. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Do you keep any statistics as to compen- sation afforded these C.O.'s in these various jobs? MAJOR McCANN: Yes. The compensation spreads over a tremendous range. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Are there many as low as 25 cents? MAJOR McCANN: There's some as low as zero on strictly volunteer-type jobs. Actually, in California, we have approximately -79- 1800 agencies that employ conscientious objectors. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Would you order a conscientious objector to an agency or an association where the compensation was zero? MAJOR McCANN: No. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Would you order them to one where the compensation was 10 cents an hour? MAJOR McCANN: I would like to state that where there are the essentials available for that man to receive food, lodging, medical care, and a certain amount of compensation, those are essential. We have, for example, ordered people to Goodwill Industries, where the compensation may be as low as $60 a week. Now, this -- let's take for an example this man working in the Bay Area for that amount of money. He may be making more in the pocket than a young man in the California Ecology Corps, but he really is not receiving a comparable amount of compensation when you figure he has to provide for his lodging, his food, et cetera. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Mr. Wilson. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Yes. I'm sorry. It was stated by one of the witnesses that the quarters were worth about a dollar a day. MAJOR McCANN: I'm sorry. What was that? ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: That the quarters were worth about a dollar a day. MAJOR McCANN: Well, let's put it this way. Before we approve an organization to be a participating employer in the al- ternate service program, we conduct an investigation of it to make sure it meets the criteria established under the law and regulations. Before we assign a conscientious objector to the California Ecology -80- Corps I personally visited the ecology centers. In addition to this, I asked Dr. Curtis Tarr, Director of the Selective Services, to come out and also take a look at the ecology centers. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: What value per day would you place on the quarters? MAJOR McCANN: I would say that it's certainly better than a dollar a day or a dollar a month. What was it? ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: It's not like a Motel Six? MAJOR McCANN: Most certainly would not be. But it's cer- tainly as good as I had in the Air Force when I first went into the Air Force. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Was it like a ski lodge at Lake Tahoe? MAJOR McCANN: I'd say it's like a ski lodge, as good as a ski lodge at Lake Tahoe. I'd classify them as fairly deluxe facilities as far as living accomodations go. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: What you are saying, the way I under- stand it, is that a person in San Francisco, say, making $500 a month, he's really not getting as much money as a person that is getting $40 a month? CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Excuse me, Mr. Wilson, he said $60 a week in San Francisco and not $500 a month. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: I see. Because there was someone that got $700 a month along the way. MAJOR McCANN: That's right. I say there's a considerable range in compensation in this program. I'm taking a man who has been -- could be ordered to a job that paid as low as $60 a week in Palo Alto, let's say. His living accomodations, I would assume, -81- would not be as high as a man who's in the Ecology Corps. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: I wanted to ask you a couple of questions. The way I understand the draft law is that if a person is classified as a C.O. and then his number does not come up in the year in which he's eligible, then that person is not required to do alternate service. Is that correct? MAJOR McCANN: That's correct. He's treated exactly as a man treated in Class 1-A and would be eligible for military service. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: If a person had a number of 301 and 95 was the highest number reached, then that person with the 301 number would never be required to have alternate service? MAJOR McCANN: That's correct- ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: So that in most respects, people who are C.O.'s are treated the same as people who would go into the active military except when they are to be paid. Is that correct? MAJOR McCANN: That's not exactly correct either. The Selective Service law states that there should be an effort made to - now, this is the new regulations. This is not the law. This is the Selective Service regulations. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Is this local board memorandums? MAJOR McCANN: No. This regulations is a Selective Service regulations that there should be an effort made to provide a conscientious objector with as closely as possible a comparable standard of living that an entering man would have going into the armed forces. This is a waiverable provision, however, by the state director mainly because it's absolutely impossible to create -82- an exactly parallel situation for alternate service with that of a man in the armed services. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: I understand that, but since the military pay raise and since the rates for military have gone up considerably, are you now looking for different alternate service which will reflect the degree to which the military pay went up? MAJOR McCANN: No. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: So then you are not carrying out what the regulation says? MAJOR McCANN: And I said we are. It's as near as possible a parallel standard of living. However, this is a waiverable position by the state director of Selective Services. If he feels that a particular job is in the national interest or it's - he's required to place conscientious objectors in alternate service. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Let me ask you this. A person in the military, an E-5, after two years, how much would that person be making? MAJOR McCANN: Sorry. I don't have the pay scales for an E-5. I can't answer that. The beginning, the entering private, is approximately $288 a month. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: That's $288? MAJOR McCANN: Yes. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: And then he would get in addition to the $288, I assume, this same type of accommodation, the same type of food these people get? MAJOR McCANN: That's correct. -83- ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: So that person in the military is getting approximately $250 a month more? MAJOR McCANN: Yes. But he may be in combat also. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: How much more does he get if he is in combat, major? MAJOR McCANN: About $50 a month. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: I think then here the risk to a person's well being might be greater in a fire fighting situation than it may be, say, stationed in Saigon, for example. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: You don't have to respond to that. That's not a question. Anymore questions? ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Yes. I wanted to ask one more thing. It was brought out earlier that the regulation calls for no national camp for C.O.'s? MAJOR McCANN: That's incorrect. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: That's incorrect? MAJOR McCANN: Yes, it is. You will not find that in the Selective Service laws or regulations or any directives. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Major, would you be willing to provide a copy of the regulations applicable to alternate service. MAJOR McCANN: I'd be happy to. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: We'll probably incorporate it into the record. (Appendix F) ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Are you saying there's no limitations where a person can be sent if he is classified as a C.O.? MAJOR McCANN: Yes, there is a -- C.O.'s cannot work for -84- a profit-making organization. The organization must contribute in some way to the national health, safety, or interest. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Now -- MAJOR McCANN: We wouldn't assign a C.O. to a subversive organization or a profit-making organization. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Is there any provision whereby the federal government reimburses different agencies where these people are sent to work? MAJOR McCANN: No. No, sir. There's no provision for reimbursement. In other words, the employment arrangement is directly between the conscientious objectors who perform the work and the employer. It's very closely an employee-employer relation- ship that would fit the situation. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: So then you have a situation where if the federal government inducts a man into the military service, the federal government pays for it? MAJOR McCANN: That's correct. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: If a man is a C.O., then the State of California pays for that man. Is that correct? MAJOR McCANN: That's correct. If he's assigned to the California Ecology Corps. If he's assigned to one of the other organizations, that organization will compensate him. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Now, does the State of California make reports to the Selective Service System as to the progress that the person is making? MAJOR McCANN: We periodically request that the organization that employs the C.O. tell us how he's doing and whether his work -85- is satisfactory and whether he will remain with the organization. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Now, does the State of California pay for the preparation of these reports? MAJOR McCANN: The report consists of a form letter that we mail that requires a check mark, so, I don't think the cost would be very great. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: But the answer is no? MAJOR McCANN: Correct. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: How long are these people - if a person is ordered to the Ecology Corps in California, I assume he has orders and he stays there a definite period of time. Is that correct? MAJOR McCANN: The period of alternate service is 24 months, the same as the requirement for a man to serve in the armed forces. When a man is assigned to a job, we assume he will stay there for 24 months. This doesn't -- isn't always the case because a great many fellows are transferred from one particular job to another. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Now, did the Selective Service play any role in establishing the wage at $40 an hour in California? MAJOR McCANN: No. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Now, when these people come into the draft board and they are contemplating becoming a conscientious objector, are the wages that C.O.'s are paid, is that used as a tool to discourage people from becoming conscientious objectors and joining the military where their pay would be seven or eight times higher? MAJOR McCANN: Absolutely not. -86- ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: So they find out about the rate after they become a C.O. Is that correct? MAJOR McCANN: That's not exactly true. I'm sure there's no requirement. The board will not hold back any information. As a matter of fact, there are conscientious objectors in this state that are making considerably more than a man would in the armed forces. It depends on the job. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Do you know what the average C.O. is paid? MAJOR McCANN: I think the average would run probably about $300 a month. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: So people like Goodwill and the Ecology Corps are not the average thing? MAJOR McCANN: As I said, some organizations pay nothing. It's strictly a voluntary job. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: But those people, the way I understand your testimony, are not required to take a job that pays nothing? MAJOR McCANN: If they select the job themselves, they are -- can be assigned if they can prove to me that they have a means to provide for their livelihood. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Well, what is the lowest amount of pay that a person is required to accept? MAJOR McCANN: Well, I don't understand your question. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Well, I'm asking you what is the lowest amount of pay that a person is required to accept? In other words, you order some people to take certain types of jobs? MAJOR McCANN: Every man in the alternate service program is -87- under an order. He's ordered just the same as the man given an induction order to go into military service. So, every man is ordered. Conscientious objectors are given an opportunity to select the work that they would prefer to perform. They are given a period of time to do this. If they - they find a job and they come to me and say I would like to do this, this is what I want to do, the local board will then issue an order assigning him to that work. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Well, what happens if a person goes out and he can't find any jobs that pay more than, say, $40 a month and he has three of those. Then is he ordered to choose from among the three? MAJOR McCANN: If he says, "I would like to perform that," I'll assign him to the one that he requests if it meets all the criteria under the law. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: If you take a pragmatic approach, let's say, a person cannot go out and find any jobs that would pay anymore than, let's say, $40 a month, he would like to make more, obviously? MAJOR McCANN: Are you talking about $40 a month straight across the board with no room and board, medical care, and the other necessities? ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Let me be more specific. MAJOR McCANN: What are you talking about? ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: I'm talking about a program analogous to you. -88- MAJOR McCANN: Now, wait. What I'm saying, the person goes out. He can find three programs like this. He could not find a program that would pay more. In other words, he is re- stricted to these, not because he wants these, but because of necessity and that's the situation. Then you order from among the three? Is that correct? MAJOR McCANN: Let me tell you how the Selective Service regulation works at this time. A man is issued an order to al- ternate service. He is given a period of 60 days to locate a job that he would want to perform. If he has something that looks - that he's working on, he'll get extra time. The Selective Service is required from the date that that order is issued, they are required to have him assigned within 330 days. So, we can give him so much time, but after - when we finally get down to the wire, we have to order him somewhere. We'll order him to a job if we are - if it is necessary, that is avail- able, and that meets their criteria that he will have the necessities of life provided to him. In other words, that he's going to have a roof over his head and he's going to have plenty to eat and a certain amount of compensation. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: But California, the way I understand it then, is in a position knowing full well that it is difficult for C.O.'s to get jobs that pay very much to set their standards or their wage low because these people, once the alternatives are set, then they will be ordered. MAJOR McCANN: Let's put it this way. There's 4,100 con- scientious objectors working in the state of California right now. -89- The C.O.'s are finding jobs. It doesn't mean that the California Ecology Corps is the only place that these fellows can go. The California Ecology Corps is only one employer in approximately 1800 in the state where C.O.'s are working. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Well, let me interject - can - MR. McCANN: This isn't the only last ditch available for every conscientious objector. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: No. MAJOR McCANN: Most of the conscientious objectors selected the Ecology Corps. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: But what I'm saying is that it seems to me that the wages are inordinately low and it seems to me that the reason that they are is because the people really don't have much of an available alternative of where they go. Therefore, the State of California is in a position where they can set the wages such as they have here at $40 a month. MAJOR McCANN: That's not really true. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Wait a minute, Major. The Chair rules that's not within the competence of the witness. The witness has just testified that the only criteria of the Selective Service is that the C.O. have a means of livelihood afforded by these jobs. Now, as to whether or not the State of California is arbitrarily setting the wages higher or low is really not the major's responsibility. You need not answer, Major. Go on, Mr. Wilson. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Well, it appears that I can't get my question answered, so I'll withdraw it. -90- MAJOR McCANN: I'll explain it. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: No. I don't think we're going to because Mr. Wilson apparently has his view as to the State of California and you are not a member of the government of the State of California. Mr. Seeley. ASSEMBLYMAN SEELEY: This is not a question either and I don't expect any answer. I sat here this afternoon listening to the hearing and Mr. Wilson is getting off on something I think is entirely away from the case here. Now, there's been no indi- cation to me that any of these people are even earning their board and room or said how much work they are doing or if they are good workers or anything. I think if we are going to argue about how much they are getting paid, we should make some determination whether they are worth anything or not. I'd be hesitant to say they are. What are they getting? CHAIRMAN CULLEN: One minute. Mr. Billett has a question of the Major. MR. BILLETT: Major, I'd like to ask a couple of questions about the Ecology Corps. Do I understand any alternative service including the California Ecology Corps requires the approval of the California Selective Service System before it can become an alternatate service? MAJOR McCANN: A participating employer, is that what you are saying? MR. BILLETT: What I'm saying is an alternate service cannot be open to C.O.'s until it has the approval of the Selective Service Board of the State of California? -91- MAJOR McCANN: In the state of California, yes. MR. BILLETT: Okay. How does the director of the Selective Service in the state of California obtain his position? MAJOR McCANN: He was - he is appointed by the President with the recommendation of the Governor. MR. BILLETT: And how do the members of the local boards in the state of California obtain their positions? MAJOR McCANN: They are selected by the superior court judges and their names are presented to the President and they are appointed. MR. BILLETT: With respect to local board members, is anyone else's approval required? MAJOR McCANN: I think you are getting beyond my expertise since my area is not selecting local board members. MR. BILLETT: I'll withdraw that, sir. MAJOR McCANN: All right. MR. BILLETT: But the members of the local boards are appointed by the President and the director of the Selective Service in California is appointed by the President. Now, when the decision - apparently you are in charge of the conscientious objectors? MAJOR McCANN: That's the alternate service program, yes. MR. BILLETT: How were you appointed to your position, Major? MAJOR McCANN: I was recalled to active duty from a Selective Service unit, the Sacramento Reserve Unit, which is an organization of a few officers who are maintained on a standby basis for augmenting the Selective Service System. I'm an active duty member of the United States Air Force. -92- MR. BILLETT: You were recalled to active duty from retire- ment? MAJOR McCANN: That's correct. MR. BILLETT: Not at your request? MAJOR McCANN: That's right. MR. BILLETT: And by the Sacramento Local Board? MAJOR McCANN: No, not by the Sacramento Board. This was by the Director of the Selective Service. MR. BILLETT: In Washington? MAJOR McCANN: Yes. MR. BILLETT: Director Tarr? MAJOR McCANN: General Hershey at that time. MR. BILLETT: And did you have any choice in your assign- ment? MAJOR McCANN: Yes. MR. BILLETT: I have no further questions. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: All right. Thank you very much, Major. We'll excuse you and the two corpsmen at the table. And, now, Mr. Griggs and Mr. Stearns have been anxious to respond. I thought you might prefer to, after you heard the others testify. It gives you an idea of the particular interest of the members of the committee. At this point it occurs that the committee might ask you or might ask the State Personnel Board to perhaps formulate a structure, a pay structure that might be more in conformity with prevailing conditions in California. Whether those conditions prevail among welfare recipients or the PEP Program or what-have- you, I don't know; or what your attitude will be, although Mr. Griggs -93- is the most qualified man in the room today who has been quoted as leaning toward a minimum wage for these corpsmen. I also would like to make the observation that virtually all the testimony by corpsmen have been laudatory of the ob- jectives of the program. Most of it has concluded by urging that the program be expanded and, I think, this is surprising to Mr. Seeley and me. I think we were expecting people to come in and say it ought to be eliminated and destroyed as not being beneficial to California. But that hasn't been the case at all. Now, who wants to lead off? Mr. Stearns, you have opened. Do you want Mr. Griggs to get his licks in? MR. STEARNS: Well, there are relatively general suggestions, so let me begin to respond. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: All right. MR. STEARNS: Our initial thoughts we have in this way, we have made some progress in the nine months on the basis of the dollars that were available to us on a relatively broad basis. The funds of the State of California supports the wildland fire fighting efforts all over the state with about $43 million. In addition to that, we have some reimbursement. Although the total bill is big, we have tried, as other departments have tried, to buy the most with those available dollars that we possibly could. Initially when the camps were empty we had available to us at that time the fire crew foremen that are the real key to leading men safely in dangerous situations. The point was made that two years training would be better. This is true, but the real fire expertise and safety leading the crews are the fire crew foremen that -94- have worked for the state for many years. We funded it within our means, within the dollar ceiling that we had, and the goal we set ourselves, which was, if at all possible, to develop a program that would sit as well within the historic funding pattern that we have had as possible and to the greatest extent would be possible during -- outside of the fire missions to generate enough reimbursement to the maximum possible extent to fund itself. We've moved toward that goal to a degree. In 1970-71, the pay was $40 a month. We did apply to the Department of Finance and got permission to use the emergency funds for the emergency overtime as of February 1. The budget we have under consideration for 1972-73 would raise the pay to $100. We are making some progress there. I think the - as a rough figure out of this budget a total compensation or the total cost of support of individual corpsmen will be someplace in the neighborhood of $200 or $250 a month. We are making some progress. Mr. Griggs has said, and I'll say again, that ultimately the goal should be a free labor force of all volunteers, acceptable human beings, you know, at least a minimum wage. I have not chosen to make a dollar request of the Legislature that would fund that at this time. We are moving steadily in that direction. We have found that the answer to Mr. Seeley's question, that the work produced by these crews has been superior in respect to any other crews that the state has ever furnished or the federal agencies using them have had available to them. The representatives -95- of the federal agencies have some prepared statements. If your time doesn't allow it, I would ask they be made a part of the record as though testified to. (Appendices G,H,I) CHAIRMAN CULLEN: We'd appreciate it. MR. STEARNS: The work produced per man day has been between one and a half and two times what you would ordinarily expect from a hand crew. So, there has been a tremendous amount of dedication of interest on the part of these men and it's hard work. There's no question but what it's hard work. So, I would say that my department goal is to reach that. I think we are moving toward it; that we have done quite a bit toward achieving it in a very short period of time. We are accommodating a change now where initially we thought we were going to be able to supply the Corps through conscientious objectors in our initial concept just a year ago and our picture has changed very radically. We have every indication that at the $100 a month we're going to have a lot of young men who are going to want to do this. In the area of welfare recipients, we are going to have to make deals with the separate counties because this deals with un- married young men and with the exception of those 18, 19, 20 year olds who are still going to college and are welfare recipients under the Aid to Dependent Children Program, there really aren't all that many who are actually state welfare people as individual unemployed males. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: What about the food allotment when there's inflation? MR. STEARNS: The food? -96- CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Over a period the price of food goes up. MR. GRIGGS: Well, we don't stick - CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Mr. Griggs. MR. GRIGGS: We don't stick to a regular meal cost. We've been in this business a long time. We know that food is important, good substantial food, and we serve it in all the centers regard- less of the cost. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Well, how much is the cost? MR. GRIGGS: About 66 cents per meal average. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Mr. Wilson. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Yes. Mr. Stearns, how was the $40 a month figure derived? MR. STEARNS: It was arrived at from the dollars we had available to us from the work projects we had under contract in addi- tion to the dollars available to the department for our basic fire crew leading mission, which did not -- does not anticipate any pay- ment of wages because it has been state inmates. And in the budget breakdown we have here the dollars that I must be responsible for, general fund dollars to provide hand crews and fire emergency fighters and to construct and maintain the fuel breaks that are a part of that system, the water tanks and the access roads are all part of the state fire defense system and are $814,000. The cost for 1972- 73 will be $1.2 million. Now the difference in reimbursement we anticipate from our contracts of $408,000 is the slack we have for the amount of wages we can pay. I mentioned once before that on August 1st we will have enough work to do and anticipate having enough people available -97- to us that we'll be able to offer a health insurance program including a life insurance benefit. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Just one other question. I got the inference earlier that a person can come and apply to work for the State of California as a fire fighter? MR. STEARNS: Yes. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: And he would receive, let's just say hypothetically, $350 a month. MR. STEARNS: That would be about right, yes. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Now, that person can be told there are no jobs available and that the Corps is available. And it seems to me that eventually the state would be getting fire fighters for a heck of a lot less than when there's a job available and they go ahead and take it. MR. STEARNS: We are budgeted for exactly the same number of men for the seasonal fire fighters that we always have been and these are the jobs that you are mentioning. There are about 1800 positions of those a year that require from two to four to six or seven months depending on the part of the state where the fire season is. Typically they are boys that are over 17, 17 or more, who go to work in a fire station when their school is out and return when the school term begins. So, we have a very high peak of the number of people available. This has been over the years. It has been established good business to automatically return a boy to his job the next year if he has done satisfactorily in one year SO as a matter of practice most of the seasonal fire fighters are returnees from the year before. -98- They keep these for the three or four years they go to college, so of the 1800 positions we have some 400 or 500 new seasonal positions available to us each year. Of that number, we set aside 200 for disadvantaged unemployed boys who are selected for us by the employment office up and down the state. So, we now have maybe 300 available openings each -- the beginning of each fire season. We have many thousands of applications. Summer jobs for boys are very hard to find. So, the reason that we offered that was we said we don't have this job available for you, you know. You have 10 or 20 apply for each one, but you can, if you are not planning to return to school on the 15th of September, take this as an alternative if you want some kind of a job. Now, on a net basis with, you know, where the board and room are furnished, they could save part of the $100 depending on things. It's just in lieu of sending them a letter and saying, "We don't have any job for you. MR. GRIGGS: Mr. Wilson, it is an entirely different situation between the ecology corpsmen and the fire fighters. A fire fighter is initially attached to a station and mans a fire truck. These are not hand crews. The ecology corpsmen are trained 15 man hand crews with no fire fighting equipment other than tools. We have 276 fire stations to man in the state. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Okay. Mr. Billett. MR. BILLETT: Mr. Stearns, who has the day-to-day super- vision of the program? I'm asking that question assuming that it's Mr. Griggs, but I want to be clear. -99- MR. STEARNS: That is correct, yes. MR. BILLETT: Mr. Griggs, I'd like to ask some questions then about our visits to Tehama Camp and to the Humboldt Camp. MR. GRIGGS: All right. MR. BILLETT: What procedure do you have to determine whether there is an equity in terms of food, living conditions, and enforcement of regulations between the camps? How is that supervised? MR. GRIGGS: That is supervised partly by me and partly by the Division of Forestry Conservation Camp Coordinator in the five divisions of forestry districts, and, of course, the center directors. MR. BILLETT: Well, you mentioned a few moments ago in your testimony that the food budget really is now up to 66 cents per man, per meal? MR. GRIGGS: That's an average of what we are spending. MR. BILLETT: That is per meal? MR. GRIGGS: That is the average of what we are spending. We don't have any firm budget. MR. BILLETT: Well, now the gentleman -- the corpsman who appeared here from the Inyo Center testifed that it's running somewhere around 53.6 cents. MR. GRIGGS: That's entirely possible that that center main- tains its average at 56 cents there. MR. BILLETT: Let me then ask you this question. I'm going to draw some comparisons that I witnessed myself. At the Tehama Center, the director of the camp, Mr. Cartwright, -100- told us that he is spending in fact about 55 and a half cents per meal per day. They were not permitted to have fresh milk in the quantity they wanted. They were not supplied fresh fruit. Their meals, we ate lunch and dinner, consisted primarily of potatoes, noodles. They were good. They were well prepared, but they were starch-base meals. There was a restriction in terms of the quantity of food that a corpsman was provided. Now, compare that to Humboldt. At the Humboldt Center again we were there for two meals. They had milk, three meals a day, in whatever quantity they wished to consume. They had granola for which they are spending $65 a hundred pounds to provide for breakfast. They had special vegetarian meals prepared in a wok with brown rice and fresh vegetables. When they were ready to go out on the grade in the morning they had an opportunity to make as many sandwiches as they wished to carry with as many kinds of meats as you and I could ever wish to have at any lunch we con- sumed. The fresh fruit included bananas, and pineapples, and oranges, and grapefruit. I looked at receipts from a local dairy, $220 a week. That included whole milk, skim milk, yogurt. The gentleman from Inyo indicated that he is purchasing vitamin supplements. The camp director at Tehama said vitamin supplements could not be provided, but at Humboldt they are, par- ticularly an unlimited quantity of Vitamin C tablets which many of the corpsmen wish to have. At the Tehama Camp the sideburns could not be longer than -101- your lobe of your ear. Your hair could not be longer than your collar as per Division of Forestry. At Humboldt not only the corpsmen, but the Division of Forestry employees themselves were permitted to wear hair in excess of those regulations. At Tehama the men had no means of their own to spend spare time in the city of Red Bluff. There was no transportation, no means for transportation. At Humboldt, though, they were per- mitted to use State vehicles to travel to Eureka for spare time. I think I recounted to you the incident at Humboldt where the - at the evening meal not only did they serve a meal with the brown rice and vegetables and roast beef and homemade cake and, you know, more food than you and I could afford to have on our own tables, probably; but, in addition, a group of corpsmen whom we visited were presented with macaroni salad, potato salad, and hamburgers and they went and had a very nice picnic, a very nice social event. My question, in light of all this, where is the standardization of regulations? Even the living conditions were different at Humboldt Camp. They had divided cubicles with standing foot lockers. At Tehama they were specifically prohibited from dividing and they didn't have standing foot lockers at all. They had lockers, the four foot standing locker. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Let me change the question. It's not where are the regulations. Are there uniform regulations? MR. GRIGGS: There are in the center. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: And are they uniform for each center? MR. GRIGGS: Yes. -102- CHAIRMAN CULLEN: What's the name of the agency that runs the Tehama Center? MR. GRIGGS: I think Mr. Billett went to both places at the wrong times. MR. BILLETT: I went unannounced. MR. GRIGGS: You weren't unannounced at Humboldt. You thought you were. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: I don't know whether there is a center there or not. MR. STEARNS: This matter of standardization is a difficult one, really, to administer. You have the option or I do as the department director to decree every last little tiny thing in writing out to everybody where things have to be met or you give your center directors just as much opportunity they have. After all, they are the ones that are responsible to run a happy camp and to get the work done and so forth. The things that Mr. Billett has mentioned indicate some need for some standardization, yes, but in large organizations I think that you could find in almost any part of the state of government where the same kind of variation might apply. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Well, he was suggesting the overall contrast. We are not about to suggest here cutting regulations, sterner or tightening up a little bit in terms, or loosening up. I don't know what we are about to suggest. You have given testimony that these young men are perhaps one and a half to two times as efficient as your regular crews. I do have this spot. We'd like to get a report onto the free con- -103- ference budget committee by May 15th. You've expressed a de- sire to bring this 340 man Corps up to its optimum. I would very much appreciate it in the next couple of weeks if you could confer with the State Personnel Board and let me know what the annual budget would be were it at optimum even though in your mind it may take two or three or five years on today's dollar. What are you talking about? What kind of medical benefits or workmen's compensation or fringe benefits? The State Personnel Board is used to this. They work it out every time they - someone suggests a new governmental department. Well, let's look at this as a governmental department which is extensive, which has not reached the optimum because of perhaps the inadequate funds. Could you do that within the next couple of weeks? MR. STEARNS: Oh, yes. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: I know it's a burden. The conference committee is going to meet in the next month. We'd like to have it in the report. (Appendix J) I still haven't found too much criticism of the objectives of the Corps. Mr. Seeley, have you detected any criticism of the mission? ASSEMBLYMAN SEELEY: No. I was surprised to hear that the men were doing a good job and that makes me feel better. And I would support a request for an increase to pay them more. I was in hopes of a statement like that. It remained for you to make that statement, but I'm glad it came forth. MR. STEARNS: I think it's simply a matter we're not looking -104- at yesterday as much as we are looking at tomorrow and going like this. We can anticipate that the state is going to have more and more of these million-dollar camp facilities available to us. They have been built and paid for. They are situated where we need them for our fire missions. All these other kinds of things and we anticipate in the years ahead that we are going to have to depend largely on free people to make up these crews to do the year-around work for other agencies, and to be ready and available and well trained for when we need them for fires. I think it's unrealistic to weigh the future plans or anything else on anything less than a minimum wage. This would be the minimum wage, less subsistence, you know. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Well, let's find --- let's find out what the State Personnel Board could come up with. You give us those figures. MR. STEARNS: We can give it to you much quicker. They have all these figures available to them at all times. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: I'd like to wind up by 5:15, which is seven minutes and I would appreciate that the contract people submit their testimony and not present it here orally, and I do be- lieve there are more witnesses, I trust. Mr. Wilson. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Yes. I have just one question. You said the minimum wage less subsistence? MR. STEARNS: Yes. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: So that you would take one sixty-five an hour and you would place a value on the room, a value on the food, deduct that from the $1.65? -105- MR. STEARNS: Yes, ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: And arrive -- MR. STEARNS: This is what we would do with the seasonal workers where subsistence and a bed is furnished. And the rent is minimal because it's a barracks situation and it amounts to not much more than laundry and SO forth. But the meal charge set by the Board Control based on our overall is 66 cents a day. This is deducted from all our employees who eat at the state facilities. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Do you have any machines in these places for candy bars and Cokes? MR. GRIGGS: We have vending machines in some places. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: One other quick question. Someone was indicating that they were 40 or 50 miles from the nearest town. Now, when you receive your pay check, how do you go about getting it cashed? Do you have to spend one-eighth of what you get paid to go 25 miles to get your $40? Some people were nodding yes. I don't know. MR. GRIGGS: Well, you said 50 miles at first and then 25. ASSEMBLYMAN WILSON: Well, I'm not - MR. STEARNS: Their checks are there and there are trans- portation problems from these remote areas. We have them from some of our fire stations where there are other people so remote they just give up going to town. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Don't you run a liberty bus? MR. STEARNS: Well, they are running a liberty bus at Humboldt and this is one of the kinds of internal shifts that we can make. It depends on having someone to drive the bus and they have been -106- active in some of the local baseball and basketball leagues and transportation is provided to those things. CHAIRMAN CULLEN: Any further questions? Gentlemen, thank you very much. -107- APPENDICES -108- APPENDIX A State of California Resources Agency Department of Conservation THE CALIFORNIA ECOLOGY CORPS The California Ecology Corps is the solution Governor Reagan has adopted to meet California's continuing need for a reserve of trained manpower to con- front the ravages of wildland fire and to meet this State's commitment for preserving the environment. The Corps was officially established in an Executive Order (see Attachment A) issued by Governor Reagan on April 27, 1971. That event marked the beginning of the Corps as a legal entity, but it was by no means the first step. To find the first step we must go back in time more than 20 years ago when California's conservation camp program was inaugurated and even before that, back many decades to the days when state and county fire wardens conscripted citizens off the street or out of a sawmill to fight forest fires. In the intervening years, science has produced modern methods of fire control and fire suppression, but these new tools have not eliminated the need for trained manpower in organized crews. Over the years, the Division of Forestry, the State's wildland firefighting force, has of necessity increased in efficiency and in manpower. Today, some 3,000 men, whose job it is to meet the challenges of the wildland fires, are on the State's payroll. This force is augmented each summer by 1,800 Presented by James G. Stearns, Director, California Department of Conservation, before the Assembly Committee on Efficiency and Cost Control, Sacramento, California, April 4, 1972. -109- APPENDIX A young men who are employed as seasonal firefighters. Together, they man the fire stations, bulldozer crews and air bases that are three of the basic components available to us for wildland firefighting. Conservation Camp Program In the late 1940's, the need for trained hand crews became evident to the State's professional wildland firefighters as the fourth component. In cooperation with the State Department of Corrections and the California Youth Authority, the conservation camp program became a reality and was formally organized. This program enabled foresters to utilize minimum security inmates as fire- fighting hand crews and to assist in the construction of our fire defense system, working out of a new camp environment in the State's forest lands. Working with the leadership of forestry personnel, the inmates have proven to be a tremendous asset. And then came social changes -- and new concepts in penology and dealing with prison inmates. A new probation subsidy program was initiated in 1966, providing for payment to the counties on a per-case basis so that county probation staffs could be beefed up and the less serious felons who formerly ended up in conservation camps could be dealt with at home. Since the probation subsidy program started in 1966, the prison population -- and, of course the camp population -- began to decrease rather rapidly. In recent years, the prison population had dropped from 28,800 to under 20,000, as of this week. -110- APPENDIX A A study was conducted in 1970-71 to find the alternative manpower sources necessary to replace the dwindling camp population. A partial solution was to contract with counties to use local prisoners to provide the man- power. (San Diego County now supplies manpower for two camps; another camp will soon be manned by county prisoners from Shasta and four other northern California counties.) As this narration indicates, the Department of Conservation was faced with a problem, and with an obligation to find broader solutions. California Ecology Corps is ONE of the solutions. But it is more than that: it is a unique experiment in bringing concerned young men into the field of conservation in this State to provide the work experience and job training that can open career doors in many conservation fields. The Problem Becomes Acute Although we in the Department of Conservation had long been aware that some day the conservation camp program would no longer provide the total answer to the manpower reserve problem, and although we had been searching for alternatives for a long time, the need became acute just over a year ago when, simply stated, there were not enough inmates to adequately man the camps then in existence. Looking at the program as it then existed, it was obvious, from a purely financial point of view, that as many as five of the conservation camps must be closed by June 30, 1971. That prospect was not satisfactory to Governor Reagan or to the Legislature. The question remained -- what shall we do? -111- APPENDIX A In our earlier examination, we had thought of some type of program where young men who had completed their high schooling and yet who had not decided where their lives would lead them could serve for, hopefully, up to two years. Such a program, we decided, would be patterned after experiences in other programs we have administered using young men; except that we would have these young people in our employ on a year- around basis rather than just during the critical months that we know as the "fire season." On the other hand, we knew that this program would augment the conservation camp program to the extent that the young men would engage in a variety of ecology and conservation-related work projects similar to the federal government's Civilian Conservation Corps of the pre-World War II era, including work on federal land where inmates can only work on an emergency basis. Thus, with this concept in mind and the problem at hand, the California Ecology Corps became a fact. To implement a new program would obviously require considerable attention to detail, including recruitment. We asked ourselves, "Where can we find young men who are readily accessible, who are unemployed, and who could be put to work quickly within the limits of funds available to us"? It was at this point that we turned to the Selective Service System and specifically to those with conscientious objector classification. Conscientious Objectors Let me remind you that the Executive Order signed by Governor Reagan and subsequently ratified by the Legislature as part of the Budget Act of 1971 did not limit the California Ecology Corps to conscientious objectors. -112- APPENDIX A The language of the Executive Order does not, in fact, set forth any qualifications for persons employed in the program. Nevertheless, we did ask that the Corps be designed as alternate service for young men who had been classified as conscientious objectors by local draft boards. Conscientious objector officials from the California headquarters of the Selective Service System studied our request and visited the facilities we proposed to use to house the Corpsmen. Dr. Curtis Tarr, Director of the Selective Service System in Washington, D.C., also made a personal inspection trip, as did various representatives of conscientious objector associations. In the spring of 1971 there were approximately 5,000 consicentious ob- jectors in California, and many of them were looking for alternate ser- vice. Alternate service, incidentally, is easily defined as a 24-month period when conscientious objectors must work for a non-profit or public service agency, thus serving a time comparable to the time a draftee into the armed services must serve. And so to meet the immediate problem, namely the prospect of closing five conservation camps, we had a program and we had an immediate source from which to recruit. In the meantime, we had arrived at satisfactory arrangements offsetting the additional costs of the new program (camp overhead, corpsmen pay and subsistence) through cooperative agreements with other conservation agencies of the State and federal governments. Basically, these agreements allowed the Department of Conservation to charge the other agencies on a man-day basis for the environmental and conservation work to be done by the new California Ecology Corps. The net -113- APPENDIX A cost of the Ecology Corps to the State of California in 1972-73 is budgeted at $814,398 based on a corpsman population of 340. (See Attach- ment B for a list of projects; see Attachment C for budget summary.) The agreements were negotiated; and we decided to convert inmate-manned conservation camps in Humboldt, Tehama, and Calaveras counties into centers to house the new Ecology Corps. These sites were selected be- cause they were the closest to the work projects that were the subject of the various agreements that had been negotiated. (A fourth center was later added in Inyo County.) Draft Law Expires We set July 1, 1971, as the date to officially launch the Ecology Corps; but, as it turned out, this was not a good day insofar as the Nation's draft law was concerned. The law expired on that date, and it would be months before Congress would agree on a new law. In the meantime, al- though many of the conscientious objectors did respond and select the California Ecology Corps as their alternate service, many others con- cluded that in the absence of a draft law, they were under no selective service obligation whatsoever. Consequently, we did not fulfill our earlier expectation of quickly filling the new Ecology Centers with minimums of 80 men each. The availability of conscientious objectors remains questionable. Despite this, there is no plan to phase conscientious objectors out of the California Ecology Corps, but rather continue the Corps as qualified alternate service for those who volunteer. -114- APPENDIX A Recruitment Expanded On December 1, 1971, in keeping with the original concept of the Corps, I authorized the recruitment of any qualified young men for six-month en- listments; and this meant that we would no longer rely solely on our original source for recruitment, the conscientious objectors. We have been successful in the weeks since December 1 in recruiting young men and more than doubling the size of the Corps. The attached graph (Attachment D) illustrates our recruitment success, and I particularly call your attention to the increase since the first of the year. I am confident that each of the four centers will be at minimum capacity within a few weeks, thereby giving us at least 340 men. As of today, there are slightly over 100 corpsmen who are conscientious objectors. These are men whose average age is 22, who average two years of college. These are the "seniors" in the program; and the majority are, and have been, highly-productive and dedicated workers whose extra effort made the whole idea work. Many of the newer members of the Corps are in the program as a result of other forms of recruitment. Some are, for example, young men out of high school -- and out of work. There are some Vietnam veterans in the program now, and more are expected. Benefits and Requirements Corpsmen are not regular state employees: they are exempt contractees. They do receive some benefits comparable to our regular employees, such as vacations, holidays and workmen's compensation insurance. A comprehensive health benefit program will be implemented August 1, 1972. -115- APPENDIX A Since the beginning of the program, we have provided Corpsmen with food, lodging, clothing and personal care items and have paid them $40 each month. Beginning July 1, 1972, Corpsmen will receive at least $100 per month plus the other items I have listed. On February 1, the overtime rate for most emergency work was set at $2.80 per hour. Corpsmen are entitled to approximately the same grievance procedure as allowed regular State employees, including the permanent employees of the Department of Conservation. A Corpsman with a grievance discusses the problem with his immediate supervisor (generally a crew foreman of the Division of Forestry) and, failing to receive acceptable adjudication at this level can appeal to the Center Director, the Corps Administrator, and ultimately to me. During the summer fire season, Corpsmen must remain at their duty post for a continuous five-day period. At other times, they are required to perform their normal eight-hour work shift, Monday through Friday. These requirements are not unique to the Ecology Corps, but are the same requirements applied to all fire station personnel. Offers Individual Potential The California Ecology Corps has much to offer the young men who partici- pate. Educational institutions, such as the North American School of Conservation and Ecology, for example, are working with us in recruiting Corpsmen. Several of that school's recent graduates are now Corpsmen obtaining actual on-the-job experience in ecology and conservation work. Already, some Corpsmen have gone on to employment for public and private -116- APPENDIX A environmental agencies, since service in the Corps qualifies as job experience for civil service examinations and for other employment. Community colleges are looking at the California Ecology Corps as a possible supplement to their environmental and forestry curriculum for the same reasons. Let me also emphasize the potential the Corps offers the State of California as a training resource for future employees of the Division of Forestry, the Department of Parks and Recreation, and other units of all levels of government concerned with environmental protection. As I have said, four centers are now in operation. The centers and a brief description follows: Tehama Ecology Center. Located 25 miles east of Red Bluff in Tehama County near the community of Paynes Creek, Corpsmen are performing a valuable service of habitat improvement on the nearby Tehama Winter Deer Range for the Department of Fish and Game. Calaveras Ecology Center. This center, four miles from Angels Camp, houses Corpsmen who are engaging in numerous conservation projects in the Sierras for several agencies, primarily the United States Forest Service, National Park Service, and Department of Parks and Recreation. Humboldt Ecology Center. Situated in the midst of California's State Parks, Corpsmen at this center are performing vital work in recreational development for our State Park system. -117- APPENDIX A Inyo Ecology Center. This center is 10 miles from the city of Bishop. The Corpsmen here will be involved in trail construction and other conservation projects in the High Sierra for National Park Service, Bureau of Land Management, and Department of Parks and Recreation. In addition to the Centers, several spike camps are in operation. Corps- men assigned to these camps, such as those at the Sequoia-Kings Canyon National Park Headquarters at Ash Mountain and at E1 Portal near Yosemite Valley are engaged in special work projects for the National Park Service except when they are needed for fire dispatch. (Photographs of the projects are shown in Attachment E.) The Corpsmen have performed, and performed well, in a wide variety of projects since July 1, 1971. Representatives of several of the contract- ing departments have prepared testimony for your information, and a complete list of current or completed projects as of today is attached. Beyond its mission in ecology work and emergency firefighting, the Corps performs yet another valuable service. A skilled, trained mountain rescue team is now available to local authorities throughout the State to assist in the rescue of persons trapped in mountainous areas and cliffs. There may be some confusion between the role of the California Ecology Corps and that of the Youth Conservation Corps, established last year, and/or the California Youth Conservation Corps, which was authorized in legislation proposed last year by Assemblyman Mobley. The programs and the concepts are entirely different. The California Ecology Corps is a permanent year-around program employing men who are -118- APPENDIX A at least 18 years old. The other programs are primarily designed as a summer work program for younger people, both boys and girls. Both of these programs have definite roles in the protection of California's environment; and, as a matter of fact, each should compliment the work of the other. Summary of Comments To summarize the present situation with the Ecology Corps, I would like to refer again to the situation the Department found itself in just about a year ago. We had five fine state facilities about to be vacated and a continuing and pressing need for the trained hand crews that have become a part of the State's resource management and protection system. A continuing success of the Department of Corrections rehabilitation program made it plain that it was vitally necessary to establish a work force of free people to continue these worthwhile public efforts into the years ahead. We have succeeded in establishing the Ecology Corps in less than a year and have found that we can recruit and organize into productive crews the young men that have participated up to this point. We can look beyond work projects now contracted for to a substantial expansion in the program as other public agencies turn to these crews more and more to accomplish the purposes for which they receive public funds. The comparison must be drawn when we look to the future with the old Civilian Conservation Corps we all remember from the depression. That agency built practically the entire network of roads and trails and -119- APPENDIX A campgrounds available to the Forest Service and Park Service today, and opened an area of employment for thousands of young men whose oppor- tunities were extremely limited. Some of those same men are high in state government positions today, as they are in conservation agencies across the country. With careful management, the Ecology Corps can fulfill those purposes in California again; and at the same time we can continue our partner- ships with the Department of Corrections, California Youth Authority, and the counties to the end that existing facilities can be utilized, and the vital work can go on. I will say, again, the California Ecology Corps was developed to make up the difference between the in- mates and wards available to us and our manpower needs, and not to supplant them. These proven programs will continue, with the California Ecology Corps a new and exciting element. I would ask your support and understanding to that end. # # # -120- APPENDIX A ATTACHMENT A EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT State of California EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. R-27-71 Preservation and protection of the bountiful resources with which this state has been enriched demand ever increasing vigil and continuing effort. To meet this responsibility, it has been determined there is a need for an organized group of citizens who are willing to join in a common purpose to conserve California's great natural resources. Therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me as Governor of the State of California, the following is ordered: Section 1. California Ecology Corps. The California Ecology Corps is hereby established and shall activate on July 1, 1971. The Corps will be headed by the Director of Conservation. Section 2. The Director shall have authority to direct and supervise all personnel and activities thereof. The Director shall take all actions as may be necessary to organize the corps so as to carry out the functions and to achieve the purposes set forth in this order. Section 3. Functions. The Corps shall: (1) Recruit and employ members to aid in the maintenance of the natural ecology and the preservation of the beauty and natural resources of this state. (2) Utilize its members in conservation and emergency projects to effect full utilization and protection of the natural resources for the greatest possible number of people. Shall assist in the protection of natural resources, which will include, but will not be limited to, forests, grasses, vegetation, soil, air, water, wildlife, recreational and scenic resources. (3) Assist in fire prevention and fire protection. Section 4. Cooperation. The corps shall cooperate with all sectors of government in carrying out its objectives. All state departments shall, whenever possible or feasible, cooperate with the Corps in the protection of environment or preservation of natural resources. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Great Seal of the State of California to be affixed hereto this 27th day of April, 1971. OF RONALD REAGAN GREAT EUREKA STATE Governor of California Attest: EDMUND G. BROWN, JR. CALIFORNIA Secretary of State -121- ATTACHMENT B CALIFORNIA ECOLOGY CORPS 1971-72 Fiscal Year CENTER PROJECTS SUPPORTING AGENCY Humboldt 1. Construct 1,000 picnic tables, 750 camp cupboards, 750 camp stoves, Calif. Department of Parks 200 fire rings, 750 stove grills, 1,000 assorted signs. and Recreation 2. Construct roadside rest -- 1,400 man days Calif. Department of Parks and Recreation 3. Construct 75-unit campground. Calif. Department of Parks and Recreation 4. San Simeon State Beach - expand camping facilities. Office of Architecture and Construction Tehama 1. Rehabilitation of the Tehama Winter Deer Range, including spring development, big game water guzzlers, Ishi fire road construction Calif. Department of Fish and fence building. and Game -122- 2. Construct big game water guzzlers with exclosures in Modoc County Calif. Department of Fish and Game 3. Mechanical and hand drill planting of browse species (brush) for interstate deer herd and rehabilitation of burned over area in Calif. Department of Fish Modoc County. (Snag falling and planting.) and Game 4. Lopping mountain mahogany for re-sprouting deer browse on Hot Creek Calif. Department of Fish Ridge, Shasta County. and Game 5. Flood control maintenance on Sacramento River - Colusa area Department of Water Resources Calaveras 1. Road stabilization -- water drains, culverts, and berms. Stanislaus National Forest 2. Timber stand improvement -- brushing, clearing. Stanislaus National Forest 3. Fuel break construction. Stanislaus National Forest 4. Lake boundary cleanup. Stanislaus National Forest APPENDIX A Page 2 CENTER PROJECTS SUPPORTING AGENCY Calaveras 5. Cover type conversion -- range improvement, construct pre-attack road (Cont. ) signs Stanislaus National Forest 6. Fire station and fire access road maintenance Calif. Division of Forestry 7. Water system maintenance. Calif. Division of Forestry 8. Construct nursery potting flats and shipping tops Calif. Division of Forestry 9. Surplus property acquisition and distribution. Calif. Division of Forestry 10. Mountain rescue training Calif. Division of Forestry 11. Training and development of visual aids for Fire Academy Calif. Division of Forestry 12. Mapping for water pollution control and soil study classification Calif. Division of Forestry 13. Campground maintenance. El Dorado National Forest 14. Beach cleanup - Lake Tahoe. El Dorado National Forest 15. Slip planting for Genetics Lab (Lab located in Placerville) El Dorado National Forest 16. Fertilizing plants for seed and soil experiments E1 Dorado National Forest 17. On site planting -- storing and shipping seedlings. El Dorado National Forest 18. Hazard reduction -- tree removal. Sequioa-Kings Canyon N. P. 19. Campground cleanup Sequioa-Kings Canyon N. P. 20. Hogan Reservior Recreation area development. Corps of Engineers 21. Tree planting -- Kaweah Reservoir. Corps of Engineers Page 3 APPENDIX A CENTER PROJECTS SUPPORTING AGENCY Calaveras 22. Trail maintenance - fire break construction, campground cleanup, Calif. Department of Parks (Cont.) Calaveras Big Trees State Park. and Recreation 23. Emergency snow removal Calif. Division of Highways Inyo 1. White Mountain Research Station maintenance and operations. U. C. Riverside 2. Construct three dams on Owens River for fish habitat improvement. Calif. Department of Fish and Game 3. Pup fish sanctuary development. Calif. Department of Fish and Game 4. Construct drift fences on Tule Elk winter range. Calif. Department of Fish and Game 5. Stream improvements. Bureau of Land Management 124 6. Water development, campground improvement, trail construction in New York Mountain area. Bureau of Land Management 7. Campground development. County of Inyo 8. Water development, campground improvement, trail work -- Death Valley National Monument 9. Restoration of Ghost Town -- Bodie. Calif. Department of Parks and Recreation ATTACHMENT C APPENDIX A 1972-73 LINE ITEM DETAIL BUDGET FOR ECOLOGY CENTERS APRIL 1, 1972 Humboldt Tehama Calaveras Inyo Total Ecology Ecology Ecology Ecology All PERSONAL SERVICES Center Center Center Center Centers Salaries & Wages Forest Ranger II (1) 14,114 (1) 14,114 (1) 14,114 (1) 14,113 (4) 56,455 Fire Crew Foreman (5) 59,258 (5) 59,258 (5) 59,258 (6) 71,110 (21) 248,884 Heavy Fire Equip. Oper. (1) 10,878 (1) 10,878 (1) 10,878 (1) 10,878 (4) 43,512 Forestry Cook II (2) 15,088 (2) 15,088 (2) 15,088 (.5) 3,772 (6.5) 49,036 Total Salaries & Wages (9) 99,338 (9) 99,338 (9) 99,338 (8.5) 99,873 (35.5) 397,887 Staff Benefits Retirement (Staff Only) 14,900 14,900 14,900 14,980 59,680 Health & Welfare (Staff Only) 1,728 1,728 1,728 1,632 6,816 Workmen's Comp. (Staff) 1,818 1,818 1,818 1,828 7,282 Workmen's Comp. (Corpsmen) 9,000 9,000 12,000 9,000 39,000 Total Staff Benefits 27,446 27,446 30,446 27,440 112,778 Total, Personal Services 126,784 126,784 129,784 127,313 510,665 OPERATING EXPENSES AND EQUIPMENT General Expense 8,000 8,000 8,100 8,000 32,100 Small Tools 891 891 1,518 891 4,191 Housing 3,726 3,726 6,348 6,348 20,148 Oper. Supp. & Exp. 891 891 1,518 1,518 4,818 Communications 1,215 1,215 2,070 2,070 6,570 Travel-in-State 1,377 1,377 2,346 2,346 7,446 Motor Vehicle Oper. 18,063 18,063 30,774 30,774 97,674 Emp. Relocation 480 480 840 480 2,28C Utilities 10,692 10,692 18,216 18,216 57,816 Recreation & Lib. Supp. 972 972 1,656 972 4,572 Repair & Maint. of Fac. 4,293 4,293 7,314 7,314 23,214 Subsistence 42,300 42,300 56,400 42,300 183,300 Corpsmen Clothing 13,950 13,950 18,600 13,950 60,450 Medical & Dental Supp. 1,782 1,782 3,036 1,782 8,382 Search & Rescue - - 2,000 2,000 4,000 Corpsman Pay 36,775 36,775 45,970 36,775 156,29' Exp. Acct. Property 1,000 1,000 1,000 1,000 4,000 Equipment 8,744 8,744 8,744 8,745 34,971 Total O. E. & E. 155,151 155,151 216,450 185,481 712,231 Gross Total Cost 281,935 281,935 346,234 312,794 1,222,89 Reimbursements -104,000 -104,000 -120,000 -80,500 -408,50 Net Total Cost 177,935 177,935 226,234 232,294 814,39 B&SO -125- APPENDIX A California Ecology Corps Division of Porestry Conservation Camps July 1971 - April 1972 July 1970 -- April 1972 340 22 21 300 20 250 19 18 200 17 16 150 15 11 - 14 100 I 12 1: 50 TO O C. A S 0 N D J F M A J A S 0 N D J F M A M J J A S 0 N D F N -126- 1971 1972 1970 197 972 APPENDIX A TREATIFORNIA The California Ecology Corps in fotos HOUSE CORPS Mountain rescue training climbing, and will be given additional training in cold weather survival, snow and ice-field climbing, and cross-country skiing. They will also be trained Members of the Ecology Corps' new mountain in first aid and follow-up field medical treatment, as rescue team have been going through an intensive well as litter handling. training program which will eventually prepare them Operating out of the Calaveras Ecology Center, to handle rescue missions in difficult terrain and the mountain rescue team will be available to public under all-weather conditions. agencies, statewide, for rescue missions in any of Rescue team members have already received California's rugged terrain, but especially in the professional instruction in both free and aid rock Sierra-Nevada range. -127- APPENDIX A Timber stand improvement and fuel break construction Corpsmen working for the Stanislaus National Forest have been engaged primarily in tim- ber stand improvement and fuel break construction. Timber stand improvement involves thinning overcrowded timber stands to promote better tree growth, clearing brush from areas to be planted as timber plantations, and disposing of road-side slash with motorized chippers. The construction of fuel breaks generally involves clear- ing a swath of brush from alongside fire access roads. Fuel breaks provide an early defense against wildland fires. -128- APPENDIX A Instructing COD trainees Four corpsmen were given a tem- porary assignment this January to in- struct Career Opportunity Develop- ment trainees attending a five week session at the Division of Forestry Fire Academy in lone. Utilizing special program learning aids, the corpsmen helped the C.O.D. trainees review high school level course material in English, mathe- matics and physical sciences. Fire road construction A major project at the Tehama Ecology Center has been constructing the Ishi road, an unpaved all vehicle road that will serve both as a major fire access road and as a major link into the Tehama Winter Deer Range. Corpsmen on the project are en- gaged drilling blasting holes, and con- structing culverts and header walls around the culverts. Constructing camp ground equipment Corpsmen working in the carpen- try shop at the Humboldt Ecology Center are presently constructing pic- nic tables and camp cupboards for the State Department of Parks and Recreation. The carpentry shop will also pro- duce assorted signs for the Depart- ment of Parks and Recreation. APPENDIX A Campsite development At the Humboldt Ecology Center, there are two crews of corpsmen assigned to campsite development at Benbow Lake State Park. Funded by the State De- partment of Parks and Recrea- tion, the project involves clear- ing the land, leveling campsites, installing pipe lines, building fences, and constructing roads and parking areas. Corpsmen are also engaged in removing hazardous limbs, snags and dead trunks that might endanger children playing in the park; thinning trees to make the campsites more access- able for campers, and construc- ting gates and log banks to pre- vent cars from parking improperly. APPENDIX B STATE OF CALIFORNIA--RESOURCES AGENCY RONALD REAGAN, Governor DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION P.O. BOX 2390 SACRAMENTO 95811 March 31, 1972 Honorable Mike Cullen, Chairman Committee on Efficiency and Cost Control Room 440-B, State Capitol Sacramento, California 95814 Dear Mr. Cullen and Members of the Committee: Thank you for the opportunity to present testimony to your committee concerning the experiences of the Department of Parks and Recreation with the Ecology Corps Program. At the beginning of this fiscal year, we contracted with the Division of Forestry, Department of Conservation for $203, 400 of work to be performed by the Ecology Corps. $105,400 of the work was financed directly by our Department and $98,000 is to be furnished by the United States Bureau of Reclamation from the Land and Water Conservation Fund on a reimbursement basis. Work to be accomplished for us through this program is as follows: 1. Construction of the following facilities for state- wide distribution to units of the State Park System. 1,000 Picnic Tables 750 Camp Cupboards 750 Camp Stoves 200 Fire Rings 1,000 Assorted Signs Of the above facilities, 50 tables are complete and the material for another 200 has been cut and prepared and 30 cupboards have been completed. The balance of the facilities are expected to be completed by July 1. 2. Construction of a roadside rest at Franklyn K. Lane Grove in Humboldt Redwoods which includes clearing, fill, park- ing area, rest room building and water line. This will be complete by July 1. 3. Relocate a 50 unit campground from Reynolds Wayside Camp in Mendocino County to Benbow Lake State Recreation Area in Humboldt County. This work is 50% complete and will be finished by July 1. -131- APPENDIX B Honorable Mike Cullen, Chairman -2- March 31, 1972 0 4. Construction of trails in Calaveras Big Trees State Park. 96 man days have been expended to date and 510 man days remain to be used before July 1. 5. Construction of a 54-unit campground at San Simeon State Beach which includes brush clearing, site preparation, tables, stoves, rest room buildings, water tanks, and campsite posts will be completed by July 1. Cooperation in the development and implementation of this program by Division of Forestry headquarters and field personnel has been outstanding. The Department of Parks and Recreation believes it will be accomplishing about twice as much work and receiving at least double the facilities through the Ecology Corps program. The above programs have been accomplished by the Department of Parks and Recreation personnel or day labor forces from the Office of Architecture and Construction in the past. The campground construction is of the primitive type; the restroom buildings, of the vault or chemical toilet variety. Extreme care and understanding have been exhibited by the Ecology Corps regarding the effects of the development of this primitive campground upon the environment and in providing a better public service for recreation needs. Sincerely William Penn Mot Jr. Director -132- APPENDIX C Statement by Nathanial Stone, Corpsman Humboldt Ecology Center, Weott, Cal. to Department of Conservation Subcommittee, Finance Committee, California Senate March 15, 1972 Among all the COs at Humboldt Ecology Center there seem to be complaints of some aspects of the Corps and, simultaneously, appreciation of other aspects. With only one exception so far, the negative aspects outweigh the positive ones at some point before a man's alternate service is done, and he leaves. Of the 22 men that were at Humboldt at the end of last summer, only nine are still here, and of those three are very close to leaving. The director of our camp has said repeatedly that the COs have done a better job than what the California Division of Forestry has seen from others doing our same job, and Parks Department personnel we have worked with have supported that opinion. And yet, we find these working conditions eventually intolerable. Living in the mountains, working outside, and getting some firefighting experience are pretty shining inducements to join and even to stay. Until one really gets to know the Corps, the potential of actually doing ecology oriented work is also a very important reason for joining and, at first, for staying. Most of us are quite concerned with the ecology of this country and more speci- fically of this state, and we saw in the California Ecology Corps a real chance to do something about it and really feel that we were having a worthwhile and positive effect upon the ecology. Except for possibly the newest arrivals, we have all been sorely disappointed. The director of our center has said repeatedly that the California Ecology Corps is not really meant to be an "ecology corps" -- its function is to fight fires! He has told us, and claims to even have suggested to the Director of the Ecology Corps, Joe Griggs, that the name of the Corps be changed so as not to mislead prospective corpsmen. Prospective -133- APPENDIX C Nathanial Stone 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2- corpsmen are not the only ones being misled -- the people of the state of California have been led to believe that their governor, through concern for the environment, actually established an agency to do something about it. We corpsmen have suggested many projects that would benefit the environment, but that have been refused by either our camp director or someone over him. Among them was a proposal to do such simple things as cleaning up litter from the highways, parks, and woods, and cleaning up debris from the beaches in our area. We proposed teach-ins, ecologically oriented tours, and literature dissemination for the general public in order to increase an environmental awareness. We asked to be allowed to work on stream clearance and assist with the fish hatcheries. And we also asked to be allowed to work with Dr. Becking of Humboldt State College on projects he deems necessary to safeguard the endangered Redwoods of the Rockefeller Forest area of the Humboldt Redwoods State Park. To all of the requests we have gotten the answers of "We are not funded to do ecology work," or "You can do it on your own time but we can't take state time for that kind of work." Instead, our projects are things like constructing picnic tables, clearing camp sites in a future park, removing Park Department equipment from a park so the Highway Department could put a new stretch of freeway through it, splitting downed redwoods into fence rails, and digging culverts along park roads to help keep them open. A small amount of reseeding of bared areas has been done by a few Humboldt corpsmen, but even there the man hours put in on state time was so minimal that next to what the Sierra Club does in one day, on one hillside, our efforts were dwarfed. The administration has, however, allowed one man to take state time one day a week to work with the local recycling center. Other than that, any ecology oriented work that gets done has to be done on one's own time. -134- APPENDIX C Nathanial Stone 3-3-3-3-3-3-3- Of course, we do fight fires during the fire season and have been lauded as very good fire crews by the CDF personnel we have worked with on the fires. I would in turn also like to praise our foremen for their conscientiousness when it comes to our safety on a fire. The safety consciousness of our foreman, however, contrasts sharply to that of whoever orders our clothing. The boots we are issued and expected to wear to a fire have soles that are dangerously slick -- so much so that the US Forest Service will not allow any man on a fire line with that kind of sole. The rest of our clothing is fair to excellent with the exception of the blue jeans, which cost the Ecology Corps somewhere around $3.50 per pair and aren't worth a buck. I've seen a few pair of them just fall apart at the seams during the first wearing. We're issued other good clothes, however. The shirts, jackets, coats and rain gear are all good quality. At the Humboldt Center we are served good food. Allowances are made for the large number of vegetarians among us and although when we first got there the food was not really what I could call good, improvements have been made. We have a committee of corpsmen, cooks, and a foremen to discuss food problems. The relations between the corpsmen and the foremen and director change so much all the time that it is hard to make a definitive statement about what it is like, except that through it all, there has been a general trend from congenial with the director and somewhere between congenial and tense with the foremen, to the present condition of generally worsened relations. At present the Director, Moises Estrada, has made us not only feel that he no longer cares about us, but moreover, that he would much prefer to have the COs out of the program and employ just the volunteers. In fact, he has directly said as much to me. Relations with the foremen are actually very good on the job (with the exception of in the kitchen and with the in-camp foremen). However, off the job there is a growing distance between the foremen and corpsmen resulting in a -135- APPENDIX C Nathanial Stone 4-4-4-4-4-4-4 growing dissonance in the camp. I personally have experienced one of the CDF personnel swearing at me and I found myself cussing out another one about a month earlier. Judging from many comments made at the bi-weekly staff meetings, many of the CDF personnel have lost any respect at all for our human values. For instance, there has been stealing at the center since the introduction of the non-CO volunteers and the solution that two foremen came up with for it was for us to catch the thief ourselves and beat him up. Another personnel relations problem we have experienced is a new one with the advent of the men hired through the Public Employment Program. There are four per camp. Of our four, three of them are really very easy to get along with. Except for one man, who has caused a lot of disruption at the camp, the problems are not caused by the individuals themselves but rather by the fact of the disparate pay for equal or virtually equal jobs. Regardless of the claims that the PEP men are not doing jobs formerly done by corpsmen, two of them at Humboldt are. One of them replaced the corpsman maintenance man and one filled the clerk vacancy that opened when our clerk finished his alternate service and went home. It is demoralizing to see someone else who is no more qualified than yourself, or possibly less qualified, doing virtually the same job next to you and having authority over you and getting paid about ten times as much. Another aspect of the wage differential has been a source of discontent. For example, a total of approximately thirty-three hundred dollars per month is all that is paid for the salaries of a total of 80 men at Humboldt, while more than twice that much (about $7500) is divided among just seven others there. A corpsman gets just forty dollars a month or fifty if he is a leader, dishwasher, or night watchman. That comes out to $.25 per hour. Sometime, just to see what it is like, try to spend no more than fifty dollars a month, discounting -136- APPENDIX C Nathanial Stone 5-5-5-5-5-5-5 the cost of your clothes, meals, and household expenses, such as rent and maintenance. And then, in addition to that, try to save enough at the end of six months or a year of living that way, so that you would have enough to keep yourself alive until you find another job. It is unrealistic. It is slave labor. If you find you can't do it on forty a month, try it on $100 a month, which is what is promised to us by July 1. I am convinced that we will still find it impossible to save any toward the day when we will have to be job hunting again. I am sure that you are well aware that with the present economic situation, job hunting can be an extremely long ordeal. I do not want to see the California Ecology Corps fold up. I would like to see it change. It comes back to the old question of change from working within the system or destroying it altogether. I personally am in favor of the change rather than the destruction of the California Ecology Corps, and that is why I am here today. It has such tremendous potential but is now such a farce and blatant attempt by the Governor to dupe the people of the state into believing he is doing something about the ecological crisis when he is not. That is the basis for one of what I consider our two most important requests here today. In other words, let's have an Ecology Corps. The other important request is nothing greater than a little justice with regard to our wages. Let the pay equal the task. Give us what a private in the Army gets, or minimum wage. Give us a wage equal to the work we give you, the people of the State. Respectfully submitted, Nathanial Stone -137- APPENDIX D To: The Honorable Ronald Reagan, Governor of the State of California From: Members of the California Ecology Corps, Inyo Boology Center Petition The purpose of this petition is threefold. It will show that dissatisfaction among the members of the California Ecology Corps (CEC) is more widespread than the Governor has been led to believe. It will ask that the original intent of the CEC be recalled and reviewed. It will request a discussion of executive support for state funding of CEC projects. I. Since its inception, the CEC has shown a trend toward a low corpsman population and a high corpsman turnover rate. Low morale has led to disputes, resignations and general dissatisfaction within the Corps. Such negative aspects tend to overshadow positive elements: satisfaction in work accomplished and pride in readiness for emergency are undermined by anger and frustrated depression over a lack of response to questions and grievances. The undersigned believe that behind these grievances, and the low morale engendered by them, are several definite causes. The main function of the Ecology Corps is to provide trained hand crews for the fighting of wildfires, according to Mr. Joe Griggs, Director of CEC. Wildfire fighting is difficult and dangerous work, yet corpsmen have no life insurance, no health insurance, and receive meager wages. Corpsmen receive a minimal food allotment. During fire season corpsmen remain on call twenty-four hours a day, five days a week without compensation. -138- APPENDIX D Although Workman's Compensation provides some death benefits, Corps personnel who are not working or on base are not covered in case of accident. Two corpemen have drewmed since the beginning of the program and neither left any bequest for the simple reason that they could not afford insurance premiums, Life insurance is a distressing subject, but it would seen only right that corpemen be provided some coverage over and above Workman's Compensation as death can occur at any time. Our only health plan is Workman's Compensation, which has never been fully explained to us. Direct injuries incurred on the job or at the Ecology Center are fully covered; but, even though we live in state barracks, only one visit per man to a doctor has been allowed in the case of illness, and medication or furthar visits to a doctor must be paid for out of the corpsman's $40.00/month compensation. Corpsmen need a more comprehensive medical health plan, and should be provided some dental care. In the case of a prolonged illness a corpsman is discharged for being ill. Discharged corpsman are not given any severance pay. Despite the fact that our room and board and other essentials are provided by the state, our wages are inadequate compensation for the type of work corpsmen do. Our day to day projects are largely manual labor. For this work we receive $2.00 per day. When on the fireline corpsmen receive only $.25 per hour ($.60 after July 1, 1972) for the first eight hours, after which we receive $2.80 per hour overtime wages. This totals $13.20 per day ($16.00 after Julyl), or $1.10 per hour ($1.33 after July 1) averaged over a standard twelve hour shift. CEC Director Joe Griggs has publicly stated that corpsmen should receive the legal minimum wage at the very least. -139- APPENDIX D Our food allotment of $.534 per-man/per-meal remains static while food costs rise. While our liklihood of strenuous fire-duty increases, our nourishment decreases. (See appended food-cost statistics.) During the eight month fire season corpsmen must remain on base for 120 hours; five consecutive days on standby alert without compensation for the sixteen daily hours off work but still confined to the Center. This situation, according to those who have experienced it, leads to boredom and irritability. This might be alleviated by a general improvement in the areas previously mentioned. At the Inyo Ecology Center the corpsmen are ananimous in their concern that the above points be resolved, and that their dissatisfaction with current conditions be known. II. The work performed by corpsmen at the Inyo Center is largely the same as was performed by the previous, inmate population under the California Department of Corrections. Corpsmen fight fires; are leased to other agencies for manual labor projects, such as the building of rock and earth dams; and perform camp chores. With few exceptions, these are the tasks which Inyo corpsmen perform in the name of ecology. These tasks were all performed at Inyo by inmates under CDC's Conservation Center program. The undersigned request a discussion with the California Division of Forestry and the Office of the Governor to define the types of work, ecologically oriented or not, which are to be expected of CEC. We believe that "ecology" is a misnomer for the work the Corps performs. -140- APPENDIX D LII. At the present time, the Ecology Corps 18 a self-supporting state agency. Because of the limited funds of other state and federal agencies to which corpsmen are leased, it is impossible to achieve the previously mentioned requests without state funding. The undersigned ask the Governor to consider executive support in the legislature oriented toward general funding of the Ecology Corps to cover higher wages, health and life insurance, and a larger food-cost allotment. We also ask the Governor to support limited funding for specific ecology-oriented projects; such projects might be suggested by faculty members of state colleges and universities. We believe that these measures would appreciably improve morale, work-quality, and sense of pride in the Corps. IV. Conclusion We request that the items mentioned in the first section be carefully considered by the Governor, the legislature, and the California Division of Forestry, and that response be made to each. We request that the CEC's work profile be defined by the executive branch and CDF. If CEC work remains in the field of conservation, we request that the word "ecology" be dropped from the Corps' name, and that a more realistic one, such as "forestry" or "environment" be substituted. -141- APPENDIX D We request that prospective corpsmen be shown lists of projects completed or ongoing, and that the projects be in order according to man-hours spent on each. There should be a separate listing for each Ecology Center. We request a regular, quarterly meeting be held between the CEC Director, the Center Directors, and Corpsmen Representatives from all Centers. We request a direct response to this petition from the Governor of the State of California. The undersigned believe in the present and potential worth of the California Ecology Corps. We believe that CEC can do much in the field of environmental protection. However, we also believe that poor wages, poor food, lack of severance pay and lack of insurance must be corrected; these factors limit the Corps' attractiveness as an employment. We hope that the California Ecology Corps will expand and improve as a force for ecology in the State of California. Copies given to: The Honorable Ronald Reagan, Governor of the State of California Mr. Joe Griggs, Director of the California Ecology Corps Assemblyman Mike Cullen and Members of the Assembly Committee on Efficiency and Cost Control Members of the Press Signiatures Paul McKay C.O. -142- APPENDIX D Signiatures Jerry young C.O. andrew Kemper C.O. craig Bianchi C.O. Jordan R. Blakeney Jr. C.O. C C Oscar Mayorga Val. Jodd G. Bensen (cD) Mark Bonander C.U. Patrice Zall Co. James C. Done C.O. Lynn Gallaher) 20 Geenn N. Kageyama C.O. Guy pull C.O. David W. alraham e.o. July D.Willams CO. Sary Binker CO Stove Winers C.O. Russell law C.O. Thomas B. Robinson C.O. Burlan C.O, Brian 8 manigg C.O. Rafael D. Barraga vol. Row Smith C.O. step- n. Duln 6.0. Bur TII. Camp hell C-O Stephen Walb C.O. J. Thaddeus Easto C.O. Roger W. Bergmann C.O. Scott Edgett C.O. Jas. P.Celle C.O. Rep Bech C.O persephilles John R Robertson C.O. Gary R. Stalnaker C.O. John Muller C.O. Donald John Cans -143- APPENDIX D In Absentia Robert Heberleco(p.m.k) Steve Baer C.O (P. McK) Craig Thumbercol P. mck) Richard Droper CO (P. mcK) Bruce Engerholm C.O, (P. mck) Jon merritt C.O(P. mckl St. John minaberryc.a P. mck) Gary mulder C.OCP. mck) Ray Latham C.OC P. mcK) Jeff middlehook C.O (P.M.K) Tom Geen C.O (P.Mck) -144- I PT1 pam) Cha Sept. Oct. Nov. Dec. Jan. Feb. March Unit Cost Percentage Cost Meat 1971 1971 1971 1971 1972 1972 1972 Increase/Decrease Increase/Decrease Link Sausage $.55# $.67# $.55 $.55 $.57 $.61 $.63 Up $.08# Up 13% Com. Top Round .95 .95 .95 .95 .98 Up .03 Up 4% Corned Beef .83 .83 .87 .89 .92 .95 Up .12 Up 13% Pork Loin .63 .69 .69 .79 .83 .75 Up .12 Up 16% Ham Shanks .59 .59 .59 .59 .60 Up .01 Up 2% Wieners .63 .63 .63 .63 .67 .68 Up .05 Up 7.5% Spare Ribs .65 .69 .69 .69 .73 .70 Up .05 'Up 7% Stewing Hens .47 .48 .47 No Change No Change Pear Ham .89 .89 .89 .92 .94 .99 .99 Up .10 Up 10% Ground Beef .59 .63 .63 .63 .63 Up .04 Up 6% -145- Bacon .67 .67 .67 .69 .78 .78 Up .11 Up 13% APPENDIX D Liversausage .55 .55 .55 .55 .55 .59 Up .04 Up 7% Bologna .55 .55 .55 .59 .59 .59 Up .04 Up 7% Chili Meat .61 .63 .63 .63 Up .02 Up 3% Chopped Ham .79 .79 .79 .79 .87 .87 Up .08 Up 9% Beef Heart .49 XXXXX .53 .55 Up .06 Up 11% Stew Meat .92 .92 .92 .93 Up .01 Up 1% Short Ribs .59 .49 .59 .69 .75 Up .16 Up 22% Leg of Pork .67 .67 .67 .72 Up .05 Up 7% Fryers .43 .45 .39 Down.O4 Down 10% Filet of Cod .69 .69 .89 .93 Up .24 Up 26% Beef Clod .89 .87 .98 .98 1.05 Up .16 Up 15%