Volume 844, May 3 - May 5, 1945

RECISION TEAMS MARK MICROSTAT/MULO MICROFILM SOLL HO. INDEX TO BOOK 844 OF DIARY Book Page - A - Alk (Foreign Funds Control) Philippines 844 242 Appropriations Moore memo 5/3/45 on outs in Army end Navy appro- printions 125 ff. Argentina Braden (U.S. Ambassador) neets with HaJr, Coe and Hoffman 5/3/45 103 ff. DIARY HAJr saks Braden whether Treasury men may go to Argentina to hunt for Mazi funds. Braden asks Book 844 to see Schmidt 103 ff. May 3-5, 1945 - B - Belgium Payment to Belgium for franc advances to pay U.S. Hill Proops writen Outt that an extra payment of $8,500,000 will be made and the whole matter re-examined June 15 - 5/5/45 303 ff. a) Gutt's letter 5/1/45 urging more payments Bretton Tooda See Post-War Planning: Bretton Woods Budget Discussed by D.W. Bell and H&Tr 5/4/45 207 - C . Cartels Post-War Plenning: Germany 255 ff. China Textiles and trucks for China a) Crowley (FEA) memo 5/3/45: suggests splitting re- 1 quirement between civilian and military supply :- 113-120 Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARX MICROSTAT MICROFILM BOLL NO. - C - (continued) Book Page Book Page - J - China (continued) b) Willauer neno with statistics and tables 844 114 ff. Jackson, Justice Robert H. Post-Ner Planning: Reparations 844 77 f. 5/3/45 Correspondence Mrs. Forbush's nail report, week ending May 4, 1945 279 rr. - K - Currie, Laughlin Memo on conferences with British officials, April Keynes, Lord John M. 1945, re post-war policy 5/4/45 213 fr. Roosevelt: Condolences 227 f. - E - - 1. - Lend-Lease Eberstadt, Fordinand 100 ff., 197, United Kingdom Post-War Planning: Germany 204 FRB of NY statement showing dollar disbursements, week ending 4/25/45 - 5/3/45 134 ff. - F - - M - Financing, Government Morgenthau, Henry Jr. 124 Fussell senda HAIR material for possible use in speech White's comments on "Gernany" articles 5/3/45 or broedcast - referred to Gamble - 5/4/45 232 ff. H&Jr eska Connelly for Trunan's approval 98, 200 - a - - P - Pauley, Edwin W. Germany Treasury to have three people ready to look et gold Post-Wer Planning: Reparations 3-78, 153-185, cache by May 7 or 8 - D.V. Bell to 5/4/45 206 211, 245 ... 226 Clippings on gold cache - 5/4/45 Philippines Coe and Schmidt memo to HSJr: 6 people to start for Philippines under leadership of Alk of Foreign Funds Control - approved by HMr - 5/4/45 242 Outt, Camille 303 ff. Belgium Post-War Planning - H - Bretton Woods Feltus sends HAIr Wall Street Journal article hinting possible Treasury compromise; Feltus Hannegan, Robert E. urges announcement of position. Sends article HWr letter congratulating on nomination na Postmaster on women's clubs urging acceptance of Bretton 123 General 5/3/45 Woods 5/3/45 109-112 Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRAGE MARK MICROSTAT MICROFILM BOLL NO. Book Page Hook Page - P - (continued) - P - (continued) C Post-War Planning (continued) Post-War Planning (continued) Bretton Woods (continued) Feltus meno 5/3/45 re World-Telegrem story that Reparations Daily Worker used Treasury to ruise funds 844 121 f. el Labor Reparations document discussed 844 43-77 Tribune clipping on PAC booklet on Bretton Woods, 1) Court trial for those condemned to labor? 45 ff. sent by Feltus 5/4/45 223 f. 2) Should present werewolf members or sabo- William Green thanked for testimony before House teurs be included? 49-63 Committee 5/4/45 243 3) Survey of conditions of laborers by Repara- Pamphlet with charts presented to House Connittee - tions Commission 65-68 sent 5/5/45 by E.M. Bernstein 301 f. 4) Labor to be restricted to reconstruction? 69 f. 5) Should Germany pay for maintenance of Communications Inborers? 72-76 H/Jr aska Stattinium whether Trensury my be h) Justice Jackson to see draft of labor document 78 represented on Communications Committee 5/4/45 244 1) Working committee to meet with JCS represents- Aska for Treasury representation on Air Coordinating tives and try to get agreement 80 Committee 5/4/45 247 ff. 1) Reparations document - text 83-92 k) Coment of JCS on IPCOG I 93 ff. Germany 1) Labor document - draft 96 f. Revised 1067 discussed at Reparetions meeting 5/3/45 31-34 leeting of IPCCG 5/4/45 completing consideration of n) Recomendation of JCS on 1067 Revised 53 ff. Reparations document 153-185 Eberstadt for top finance men a) Labor outside of Germany to be used for reconstruc- a) Nathen Robertson tells HWr - no good 100 tion only - Insertion of phrase 158 f. b) General Greenbaum recommends highly 197 f. b) Amended to allow labor on fuel and food to re- o) D.N. Bell tells HMr Eberstadt won't accept 204 lievo distress 160-163 d) Hilldring reads Clay cable anying Bernstein o) Renoval of all types of industries producing in adequate for the present 209 f. oil, etc. 169 f. State Dept. senda HEJr nemo on German participation Document approved by IPCOG 173 in international cartels - 4/25/45 255-270 leeting considers Eisenhower's request for interim o) Acknowledged by HEWr 5/4/45 254 adviser on reparations 176-180 fext of document - final 167-196 Reparations State Department protests appointment of independent Meeting of IPCOG 5/3/45 on reparations document Reparations Commissioner; Truman refers them to a) Removal of reparations items to be determined Pauley, who tells then "to no to hell." 211 by Reparations Commission 3 rr. Currio finds Lord Keynen worried about possibility b) Veto power of one nation in Control Council of Britain and U.S. having to ship goods into discussed 7 rr. Germany while Russia takes out reparations - April o) Degree of control of Zone Connander over what 1945 220 leaves his zone 11-17,25 cr. assures Trunan that close limison will be main- 1) Recommendation of Joint Chiefs of Staff for tained between Pauley and Treasury - 5/4/45 245 change in 1067 Revised 31-34 Playfair of British Exchequer tells U.S. Treasury 2) Text of 1067 Revised anended by DuBole 36 representative of delay in numing British represen- d) Imports into Germany to be paid for by exports, tative, who would serve only to work out program, before exports are used 88 reparations 16-22 then be replaced - 5/4/45 252 e) Merchant ships to be placed In Allied Shipping Pool, and fairly divided after 1-3 Day 37 f. Surplus Property f) Arms and emmunition to be destroyed, not used Senator Janes M. Mend (Chairman Retional Defense 88 reparations 39-42 Committee) thanks H/Jr for letter - 5/3/45 130 Gillette (Chairman of Board) thanks HMr 5/4/45 225 Pehle report for week ending March 31 - 5/4/45 273 fr. Regraded Unclassified PRECISION MICROSTAT MICROFILM NO. Book Page Book Page - P - (continued) - V - Post-War Planning United Kingdom V-E Day Laughlin Currie account 4/24/45 of conferences with ENTr congratulates General Clark - 5/3/45 844 107 British officials on post-war policy. He socuses them of forming anti-Russian Western European bloc: they defend policy, which is becoming - W - British political issue. Finds optimism on economic outlook 844 213 ff. ser Refugee Board - R - General - cables: RB accepting Mann's offer to assist collelland 295 Schwartz 5/3/45 re funds for liberated refugees In Belgium 141 Probe 5/3/45 DI personnel movements 142, 148 Robertson, Nathan Post-Tar Planning: Termany 100 Γ. Trobe 5/3/45 re Fundo 149 Mann from London re funde for Polish relief 5/3/45 150 Roosevelt, Franklin D. Grew to Winant 5/3/45: U.S. Government will now contribute $1,500,000 to Intergovernmental Com- Condolences Lord Keynes senda HSTr program of nemorial service mittee. Authorizations for various expenditures 152 held in King's College Chapel, Cambridge 4/21/45 227 fr. Leavitt asking about individual refugees in Poland 5/4/45 287 eavitt to Trobe re May budget for each country - T - 5/4/45 288 Leavitt denying possibility of obtaining American Red Cross supplies 5/4/45 289 Truman, President Harry T. HAJr tells Connelly to reaind Truman, before he seen International Relief and Resoue Committee: re Winthrop Aldrich, that Treasury is outng Chase Bank.. 98 funds 5/4/45 290 a) Asks for his approval on "Germany" articles 98, 200 Leuvitt the individual refugees 5/4/45 296 fr. HWr congratulates Trusen on retrenchments In Federal Sternbuch to Vaed Hatzala ne funde for Shanghei expenditures - 5/3/45 108 5/5/45 313 Judah Magnes nako approval for request to Hugarian Towson, Colonel Government for information re help neuded by Coe to meet with; to send to Philippines or Argentina 139 f. Budapest Tewn 5/5/45 314 Leavitt re relief to children 5/4/45 292 Treasury Department Italy - cables Regulations on practice of attorneys before Treasury atteotti no Italian relief 5/4/45 285 Department: change in regulation submitted by Goldstein re Italian relief 5/4/45 286 Gaston - 5/3/45 132 Bell suggests that monthly reports of activities be re- Palestine - cables sumed - OK'd by HWr 5/4/45 231 Pocker (Ankara) 5/4/45 re possible entrance into HWr letter 5/4/45 to Treasury employees urging then to Palestine of non-Turkish refugees from as Drot= stay after 7-E Day 271 tingholm 5/4/45 293 Sweden - cables - U - Report on 7,000 refugees released through Count Bernadotte 5/3/45 143-146 Johnson 5/3/45 re 6,000 refugees from Revensbrueck 151 Leavitt 5/4/45 re search service in Stockholm 291 United Kingdom Brand sends report on gold and dollar balances as of Vond Hatzela to Sternbuch urging aid to liberated 3/31/45 - 5/5/45 300 campa 5/4/45 299 Lend-Lease 134 rr. Regraded Unclassified Book Page - if - (continued) War Refugee Board (continued) Switzerland - cables Sternbuch 5/3/45 to Vand hatzala re funds ........ 844 147 McClelland 5/4/45 re arrival of convoys with 300 refugees from Mauthousen 294 Riegner lists 16 people active in persecution of Jews, now in Salzburg region 5/5/45 312 RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM ROLL NO. 5/14 - 00 given to Mr. Coe 2 for Col. McCarthy - 2 - "9. As an Interia program, pending the formulation of May 3, 1945 more definitive arrengements, this Government would favor 9:00 0.0. formulation of an immediate program by the Reporations Com- mission along the following lines: REPARATIONS "s. During the initial period following the collance of Germany each of the four occupying powers - Great Britain, Present: Kr. D. V. Bell Russia, France ano the United States - any remove from its Kr. Clayton zone of occupation in Germany plante, equipments and materials Gen. Hilldring (including current output) of such 8. nature end not in excess Fr. Pauley of such amounts ss may be determined by the Reparations Mr. DuBois Commission. It shall be our policy to press for inclusion Lr. Glasser in euch an initial removal schedule the categories of plant, Com. Richardson Col. Chandler equipment and materials described in paragraphe 30, 31 and 32 of the "Directive to the Commander in Chief of the United Col. Brownell States Forces of Occupation Regarding the kilitary Govern- Mr. Hiddleberger Mr. Fowler ment of Germany" and In paragraph 3 E- above. Er. Lovett "b. The decision es to whether or not the removal of Mr. Bard Col McCarthy particular plants, equipment or materials out of 1 zone in Mr. Downey Germany is consistent with the purposes of occupation would Mr. Cox be nade by the commander of such zone, subject to the fol- Mr. Despres loving conditions: Mr. Lutheringer "1 There would be constant consultation between zone Er. Coe commanders. Lt. Pencroft Fr. Lubin "Il In making is decision ES to removel the zone communier would be responsible for carrying out any relevant MR. CLAYTON: liave you a copy of this, hr. Secretary? agreed policies which any be formulated from time to time by the Control Council. (Indicates Attachment A.) "111 The Control Council would have an opportunity to Mr. Secretary, no have two documents here, one dealing consider any perticular removal and could veto it. with the aspects of the reparations problem minus the labor question, and another document dealing with the labor question. "iv Regular reports should be made to the Control I suggest that se proceed with the document v.e were dis- Council of transfers for reparation account and the Control cussing when we last met, and take up the labor document Council should keep appropriate Allied agencies currently later. informed. Vie had finished with paragraph number eight, I believe "c. During this initial period any one of the four in our other meeting, so we will go non to paragraph nine. occupying powers could allow, if it so desired, any other Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT MICROFILM ROLL NO. 3 - 4 - - 3 United Listion entitled to reparations In the form of renovale KL. LOVETT: The point, Sr. Pauley, that was running through my mine uss, are ne to use the three basic yard- from Gerunny to take out of its zone plants, equipment end materials of such B nature and not in excess of such assomite sticks in the Yalta protocol? Are we to weigh the damage suffered by the countries on 8 nerely physical basis, or 8.5 may be determined by the Reparations Commission. Such do we include dollars of expenditure, loss of life, and removals would be subject to the policy and conditions that sort of thing? In other words, it will take quite E. specified In sub-pare raphs (a) ans (*) above. aim depree of preparation in order to cover that, and T assume that Le dian't sttempt to cover It here. "d. Records should be kept of ell cellveries unde on reparations account under such interia arrangements and VR. PATTLEY: I think that la correct. such delivaries should - unde without prejudice to the final allocation of reperation shares. The Reparation MR. HELL: Does the Commission have to approve this Commission should determine the principles for valuation handling in renoval of all industrial plants? of such neliveries. KR. CLAYTON: The physical job of dismantling. NR. CLAYING: Reginning with paragraph 0, are there any comments? That is EL rather long one. YR. BELL: Supposing In the zone the British are occupying, do they have the authority to go shead and dis- Are there any comments or 109 santle and remove the industrial plants from the zone without the approval of the Reparations Commission? HR. LOVETT: Yes, sir, 1 have . ecuple on ten. The first one is just I request for information, really, == to K. CLAYTON: liell, 1 take it that the Reporations whether or not that last sentence in the irst Commission, as stated here, will indicate to the cone reading, "The reparation agency should be given continuing consander the specific items which It would like to have responsibility for crawing up et regular intervals metailed removed. schedules of the amounts and kinds of reparations item to be delivered and should have authority to determine the MR. "IL: They can't do anything until the Reporations allocation of specific items asong claiment governments. Commission specified that particular plant. I suppose Le realize that we are not covering any basis for allocations, but I assume that La deliberate 80 that ER. CLAYSUS: That sould be my understanding from the the Commission would consider in ite instructions the document. problem, although It lan't defined in the nemo here. KR. LUBIX: There are two phases in this thing. In KR. CLAYTON: T think that is correct. I take it it the early stages the Commission Day say to the zone commander is one of the jobs of the Reparations Commission to determine In Pritain, "An far ES we are concerned you can Love out the amount of reparations and the allocation betzeen the any plants within these categories." They probably would different claimants. be the same categories in 30, 31, and 32 that are going to have to be disumntled and torn down, and during that period MR. PAULEY: Yes. Well, unfortunately this document he can 100 shead and do it. Then, also, the Central Commission won't be binding on the Commission. It in only our policy can say to the French, "You can come in and take any plants 6.5 set forth, and we have yet to negotiste with the other you want." Records will be kept, and they will be debited nations. to the receiving countries. That is the first phase. Mr. CLAYTON: Right. Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT REG.U.S.PAT.OFF. MICROFILM ROLL NO. 5 G 5 - - - 6 - Then there is fi second phase. equalizing that all out in the over-all final plan, because the value of reparations taken during the initial period KR. HELL: But there is an allocation of that so there would be taken Into consideration in any final allocation. would be E sort of equal credit to the reparations account of those particular countries. It wouldn't give the country Kk. BELL: It is possible for one country to get fl who has administrative supervision over the zone with all larger share of the reparations total than another country. itself. industrial plants an suvantage by getting those plants for COL. BROWNELL: During the initial period certainly, end it may be very difficult to equalize it in the over-all MR. CLAYTON: That is definitely the function of the period. Commission. The job of the actual physical removal would be, I should think, the function of the zone commander, MR. LURIN: There are two limitations. First the butit is the function of the-- Reparations Commission determines the nature of the plant that can be removed and the meximum that can be taken out MR. BELL: The country to which it is allocated is so that If the Commission is fair In its allocations it determined by the Commission. They have no advantage by can say, "You can't take out more than one-half billion having the zone that has all the industrial plants In it. dollars' worth of property during this period," which leaves everything else. VR. LUBIK: They may remove such plants, equipment, and materials of such 6. nature and not In excess of such 19. DEEPARS: On this point in the interim program amounts 6 5 may be determined by the Reparations Commission. NO in peragraph 9 in the long term program and es in paragraph 10, the thought, 8.5 T understand it, behind the MR. BROWNELL: During the early period the only lini- interim program is that if you attempted to impose a tation is the amount each country may remove from its zone. general freeze on any removals until after a full-fledged That amount in fixed by the Reparations Commission, but reporations body had been established that that would be you are correct in your understanding that during the initial an untenmable position and the attempt is made in the period no attempt at allocations is made. Non, up to the interia program to get the heparation Commission to propose amount stated, Russia would be able to take out all of e that the Reparation Commission establish the upper limits as certain type of property, OF France would be able to take to what can be removed during that period and also the types out all of its certain type of property from their respective of equipment that can be removed, and within those limits zones. each occupying power will be free to remove either for its own benefit or to some other Allied country if it chooses MR. BELL: Who appraises It? to do so, equipment, plants, and materials. KR. BROWNELL: After renoval it is reported by the MR. BELL: They have to adjust it in the later period. Control Council, and the Reparations Commission would then have the job of appraising it. Kh. DESPRES: This is an attempt to rectify things particularly during the initial period. M. HELL: And there still might be an advantage then to the country. Rh. CLAYTON: It depends on how long the initial period lasts. If the Reparations Commission could agree fairly VR. BROWNELL: There is definitely an advantage to the promptly on those things, why the amount of stuff that would country that has 0 richer zone. There is provision for be renoved here in the initial period would be relatively small, but in the long term It is the function of the separation Commission to allocate these plants. Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT MICROFILM ROLL NO. 7 8 B Bob, you had another point, I think, on ten. MR. LOVETT: I in afraid I Leven't ande my point clear. "The occupation authorities should DE responsible for the MR. LOVETT: Yes, in the third persgraph starting, I to not talking about that part of the peragraph, but about the second sentence which relates to the execution of execution of the plan within Gerunny. In the execution of the plan, whether the Control Council should have authority the plan, the Control Council should have the authority to to withhold that plant from France. Nom, in that case withhold from transfer as reparations specific items the seventy-five percent of the Control Council might be fevor- removal of which in its judgment would reduce the available able to withholding, but one member of the Control Council economic means below the minimum required to meet the other could block and stop the withholding nerely by voting no. obligations of the occupation." I have just really e general And it is not provided that that should be referred to the question there es to the machinery. Perhaps Lubin may Governments in question. have it clearly in sind, houldn' It be possible under this language for the Reporations Commission to have KR. LITHIN: Oh, yes, the next sentence covers that. assigned plant X, say, in the Russian zone to France? The Russians decline to give it up, and then it goez to VR. LOVETT: Yes, but I mean et tois particular stage the Control Council, and the Control Council votes-- it is referred only by e zono commander to-- France, Britain, and the U. S.--for renoval of the plant. Russia still says no, and under the Control Counell arrange- ER. LUEIN: the Control Council. If the Control ments, the plant is not noved. The query is whether it Council over-rules him on n three to one vote, then the would be appropriate or desirable to provide in this specific zone commander poes back to his Government, and his Govern- vote? type of question that the Control Council not by majority ment confers with the other powers. MR. LOVETT: Tell, I think I an talking about the IR. LURIN: I don't think It is within our function reverse situation. Let's leave the zone commanders out to tell the Control Council how It must run Its tweiness. for the purpose of trying to make the point clear. If I mean, that in already un agreement between the four the Control Council agrees that something should be done countries relative to how they will operate. The situation by B seventy-five percent vote, the twenty-five percent no we visualize It Le this: The commendine generals in our vote of one member can stop the action. lion, that doesn't zone are going to have this plant. They go before the give those three votes necessary authority to 20 back to Control Council and present their CESO, They have a chance their Governments at all. The question I an raising is to sit down and discuss it, and we assume that after dit- whether or not in spite of the over-all program of the cussion pro and con they any come to some agreement. Let's Control Council by one vote to block action shere It assume that they don t case to an agreement, end then our requires unanimous action it is necessary or desirable-- commanding general notifies Washington. I think that the and 1 don't know that it is--to include with this specific first thing that would harpen here in that the State Depart- type of problem 8 provision requiring majority vote which ment would get in touch with the Aussians and other people would mean that any three members could make 8 decision. and ray, " e have got to have this plant, and we are going to tell our general he can keep it. In other words, what MR. COS: I think in the first place we can't nake Ye vent to do Is avoid any cognatic quick decision. If it. I don't think we can make it in this context because are going to over-rule the Commission et any point, we want we we have already negotiated with the other Governments an the Governments to eit dom and talk it over: and if they agreement about the Control Council and its method of can't settle it in Herlin, do It via their embarsies in operation. It seems to me, though, that in making such a their najor Governments. decision you have to e over the whole geaut of things that Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT MICROFILM ROLL NO. 10 - 10 - mean anything over a period of time, then it seems your come up in the occupation, because the mole theory of the Control Council is going to break down, anyway. I think, Control Council and the zone comander la apparently based myself, it will mean & lot over a period of time. on the fact that you agree upon what you all can pet together or: unanimously in the Control Council; und if MR. DESPRES: I think there is another point in you don't do that, full power resides in each zone to do this connection, and that is this, as we have it formulated now, the Control Council, if unanimous, can block removal. what it likes. If the Control Council is not unanimous, the commander of 13. LOVETT: You any be right. 1 en just retting the zone in which the property in question is located this doubt off by chest. can with the approval of his Government block removal. KR. COE: I think there are a lot of questions where (Mr. Downey leaves the conference temporarily.) we would rather have it [° by majority if LE could. MR. LOVETT: Now, the only purpose of adopting a MR. LOVETT: All no asking is whether it in an Intelll- majority rule would be to enable three commanders to block removal from a fourth zone when the commander of that gent thing to do to try to remove this category of questions from the basic unanimous requirement and put It on the fourth zone was prepared to let the item go out. I think that if there were such a rule that the other three could besis of the najority vote. I don't know ayself. I simply raise the question. block removal, that if we proposed that kind of a rule, inevitably that would be tied up with & counter proposal. WR. DUBOIS: There are two points. In the first Then I would say we would have to 2° along with It If we place, of course, each zone conhander would have control supported this, namely, that the other three commanders of nis own zone, and two, isn't this true that we provide could force removal from a fourth zone in the face of all the way through here by review by the Control Council-- everything. it seems to ae as a practical matter, even though you have theoretical possibilities of one blocking it, that after a MR. DESPRES: In other words, if the three other while the pressure of the three Governments telling another commanders should over-ride the commander in the fourth Government, "lie don't want this thing done, in a sense zone when he wanted to remove something, I would say they like your Security Council where the pressure of opinion have to be able to over-ride in this opposite case when is such that It amounts to something, even though one vote the connander in the zone wants to retain something. may block it--in other words, take for exemple when A specific issue comes up as to whether or not specific kinds of plants MR. LOVETT: If that is sound, and it may be, then I should be noved out of the Aussian zone, end the Pritish, think we have. got to bring the language in the next sentence U. S., and French comanders say, " e don't think that should into agreement with the principle and out out the word 20 out, that ceans something to the sussians. essential and substitute something less than that, because essential is too restrictive, 1 think, on General Aisenhower. (Secretory leaves the conference tenporarily.) AR. LOVETT: It is more restrictive than the sentence VR. LOVETT: Do you think it does? It hear't in before. It relates to the use of judgment in reducing Pucharest, Sofin, or Budapest or Austria. available economic means below the minimum required, whereas in the next sentence the zóne commander is limited by the fact SR. DUBOIS: That depends on whether or not you assume that retention must be based within his zone on something it doesn't mean anything. If you essure that it doesn't that is essential. That seens to ne to be much too tough Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT MICROFILM ROLL NO. - 11 - a word. if It relates to the feeding of troops, for 12 example, It may be necessary to give them a certain number - 12 - of calories 8. day, but they can sustain life on half that, and it is § question of whether you would call the difference between those two yardsticks essential enough. JR. LOVETT: If you cald that, that would seet my point completely. MR. LUBIN: That determination would be up to the zone commander. In other words, if Eisenhower said, "It is A. LURIN: That is what it says. essential that I have thirty-six hundred calories a day," and if his Government agrees with him, he keeps the food. COL. PROVIDELL: Thy shouldn't the same language be used with respect to the judgent of the zone commander MR. LOVETT: I don't read it that way. 12 you have used with respect to the judgment of the Control Council and say, "After review in the absonce of L. LUBIN: It says, the zone commander if he spreement the zone commander, If he believes that the believes that the retention of any specific item within retention of any specific item within his zone in necessary his zone is essential to the purposes of the occupation, to neintain the required--to neet the other obligations may with the specific consent- of the occupation It le non drefted, the question will be decided In the light of escentiality both by the MR. LOVETT: So that the yardstick set up for him is zone end on review by the government; end If you essential. follow the language strictly, noth the govermment and the zone commander would lisve to determine that something vas MR. LUBIN: As related to his own government. That escential, that they couldn't possibly get along without criteria comes in only when he la dealing with his own it. The sale yardatlek should apply In both places. government. There are many things that persaps should be exempt and sould be exempt if the Control Lounell should come to agreement MR. LOVETT: His yardstick is whether he believes it that they ren't essential, but etill would be the minimum is essential to the purposes of the occupation. required to meet the other obligations. MR. LUBIN: and if he does, he may with the specific (Dir. Kiddleberger enters the conference.) consent of his Government withhold the removal of such Item." 18. DESPRES: Representatives of the four Governments VR. LOVETT: I will only talk about the word essential. could sit down In Berlin and argue it out and it in agreed that the Items should leave the area, then if ne still wants MR. LUBIN: His government will determine whether it the Control Council over-ruled by his Government, which we is essential enough. are saying he cen do, then I think he ought to show his Government it in essential for him to have it. MR. LOVETT: Why don't you leave it out and put the burden on his Government? Here he can't do anything, as I read this, COL. PROPELLE: T think essentiality in too strong 8 unless he believes that the retention of this specific item is yordetick to place on the none commander. essential to the purpose of the occupation. UR. LIBIT: T don't think it is strong enough. M.K. LUBIN: In other words, if the other three Governments think that the thing should go out and he still wants it in COL. BROWELL: It Leans he can't possibly get along his zone, then he ought to convince his Government that it without it, that lie can't possibly bring food or something is essential. else in from the U. 5. to take its place. / balance of convenience, A balance of desirability, or even & balance of necessity might Indicate that the items should be Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT MICROFILM ROLL NO. 14 13 . 13 - - 14 retained in the zone for e wille. There is no real reason in 8. case of that kind, then there is no use in using the for imposing that be cannot do it during the first period. word"essential." During the interia period much weaker impunge is used. ER. COE: Maybe it is a poor example. 15. PAULEY: I can't zee where the phrase "essential to civilian requirements," ANd E.O forth, departs in any any FR. LUBIX: If the zone commander presents his case from the discussion at Yalta. That is the theory on the to the Control Council and It is over-ruled and he still basis of this whole thing, and Ef long 05 the matter of wants to have his say, he ought to make e dann good case interpreting the word "essential" and wont it means is to his Government that he can't get along without It. strictly within the hands of the zone mander who rep- resents this Government, I see no hazard there. COL. PROVIELL: That would be no if It isn't for unanimity rule. COL. PROCEELL: There are many things, Kr. Pauley, that probably should be retained which It could be srgued - PATIFY: That has already been agreed upon, were not absolutely essential. unanialty. EH. PAULEY: But it In strictly within the bende of MR. LURIS: You are saying to the U. S. Government, the zone commander. "Listen, give this any the right to get into 8. controversy with bis colleagues nno have already over-ruled nin," and COL. BROWNELL: It is not entirely, if you limit Nin I think before we give him that privilege be ought to make by the word "essential." This point, incidentally, le 8 a demn good case that it is going to be hard to get along real point which WAS discussed In the working committee, without this article, and he ought to show his Government end there in one school of thought that the zone commander before his Government goes to the Russians and says, "We should not be allowed to block 5 withdrawl unless there are sorry, we are roing to let this guy keep this, anyway." it no other possible Leans for his taking care of the need lie ought to go to his Government and BLOW that it is in question. To take en extreme example, it sight not be essential. essential for his to retain certain food because it would be possible to import from the United States additional MR. LOVETT: It is hard to explain what really is in food. Yet on balance it might be most desirable to do it my mind. I am asking whether the matter of essentiality by keeping the food in the zone instead of requiring addit- can't be left to this Government to determine rather than lonal food to be shipped from the United States. Le should have the conmander on the spot limit it in the referral be given more play end more FOOM for --- of the thing to something that he feels it essential. There is no question about the Government in my mind VR. CLAYTON: Day 1 just connent on that, Colonely having the ultimate responsibility for determining whether I don't quite see the point. I mean, T don't see the you are to keep It or give it up, and if they went to ship aptness of your example there, because I can hardly conceive stuff in this country rather than have him retain the thing that you would ship food out of Termany if the United States that he feels is necessary, that is O.K. I an wondering non going to have to ship It back in. whether we are not limiting the zone commender to the type of problem be can refer. That is the basic thing. VR. COS: This is specific language with regard to that. VR. CLAYTON: May I occuent on that, Bob? You say COL. BROWNELL: That only relates to the German people, that If the zone commander wants to Let stuff go out, endifitie intended to give the zone 00 zander the right Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT OFF, MICROFILM BOLL NO. 16 15 - 16 - - 15 - of Germany which mekes the food situation so desperate there that the 11. S. has got to immediately or shortly thereafter there is going to have to be shipped from this country supplies which be bes given up. I don't see that at all. ship the food back in, why then we are paying reparations, And I think that there is in this document--if there which, of course, none of us want to do. isn't, there should be 8. provision that under no circun- Then again on the bottom of page four--on my copy It stances will the U. S. agree to any policy which would is page four, sub-paragraph K. says, "It will be inevitable result in repurations being paid for by the D. S. And that the German standard of living will be adversely affected if you are going to ship food out of Germany when you know that the U. S. is going to have to promptly ship it back by the carrying out of the Reperations Plan. However, the there, you are running the risk there that the U. S. is reparation exactions should be held within such limits AS to leave the German people with sufficient means to provide a going to be paying for reparations. minimum subsistence standard of living without sustained outside relief; but under no condition should this limitation MR. LOVETT: That la what it very defenitely does, I think. operate to require the retention in Germany of means to support basic living standards on a nigher level than that existing in any one of the neighboring United Nations." MR. CLAYTON: I don't think any of us want to promote a policy of that kind, and that any of us sould agree to And then 4. says, "To the extent necessary to pay for a policy of that kind. such minimum German imports as may be determined to be MR. LOVETT: This is not provided for in this document. essential, recipient countries should be required to pay so for BE practicable for German exports, except removals I think Mr. Clayton has a good point. of existing plant ano equipment. Importe for which payment MR. DuBOTS: This says, if be believes that the will be sought shall Include supplies imported by the occupy- retention of any specific item within his zone is essential ing forces for displaced persons and German civilians. to the purposes of the occupation--" now, that principle It is not quite 88 explicit in this document as it was of occupation is already provided for in this document. in the previous one, and T think that is - weakness of it, that under no conditions shall the 11. S. be placed in such MR. LOVETT: It is only in the interim period. 5. position that it kill be, in effect, paying reparations. MR. DuBOIS: No, the earlier principle. I think what That was a point that President Roosevelt was very explicit on in our conference with him, and he was very determined you say is made clear, and this says essential to the purpose, 50 I think it is already covered. that we should not this time be in the position of renoving things from Germany for the benefit of other countries in MR. LOVETT: I don't think it is nearly clear enough, reparations to the degree and extent that sould make it but it just wouldn't make any sense for us to divert stuff necessary soon thereafter or at some later date to supply from the Pacific war to occupational troops in Germany that or some other item to the Germen people, thus, in effect, 80 that reparations could be paid to some other country. resulting in the United States paying in part the reparations. The item that you mentioned, Colonel Brownell, would MR. CLAYTON: It not only doesn't make any sense, but be out at once if se make this document as clear 68 we should we provide in here that ne shall not do it. For example, on page two, sub-paragraph D, "This Government opposes any make it. reparations plan based upon the assumption that the United States or any other country will finance any reconstruction In Germany or reparation by Geruany." If you ship food out Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT MICROFILM ROLL NO. 17 18 - 17 - - 18 - COL. BROWNELL: EP. Clayton, I don't tnink it would be. Let's take our old synthetic oil plant again. There I think this point is a very important point, and 1 an sure that the language as used--end 1 think my colleagues on the is a synthetic oil plant In the American zone. The zone working conmittee tgree--would restrict the power or dis- commander says, "I need that in order to keep my troops mobilized." The Reparations Council and the Control Council cretion of the zone commander. AE was pointed out, If he thinks that different standards should be pieced on the zone say, "Give It up. Now, as I understand some of the previous commender than we nave placed on the Control Council or discussions, the theory has been O.K. lie gives it up even that we have placed on the zone commander during the interim if be has to ship in & new plant or new garoline, or whatever period--we have discussed examples in the working committee. it may be, from this country. The feel that that shipment is a method of foreing the United States to pay reparations. For instance, the one of synthetic oil plants is usually We would be just 0.5 well off if we shipped that gesoline, used. Non, this language is intended by ay colleagues to nake it narder for the zone commander to say that something well, say, direct to Hussie and kept the Germen plant. is required for his zone and to nake it harder for the MR. FOULER: Mr. Lovett, I have 8 suggestion. Government to say that something is required for the zone, because the test is one of essentiality rather than H.K.JR: It is an unfortunate example. the test that is imposed on the Control Council, end that is that it be not the minimum required to meet the other MH. LUEIS: That means ne have got to keep all the obligations. I don't see the logie of imposing à stiffer Germen industries going. requirement on the zone connander, and I submit that the same test should be used that you used in laying down the rule MR. FOWLER: We can repair that by one sentence in for the Control Council. peragraph 4. lie have the provision, "To the extent necessary to pay for such minimum German imports as may be determined I would not discuss the point so such If It were not to be essential--" now, that would be your petroleum to that It goes so to the heart of what our Amy commander keep your wheels turning. "Recipient countries should be is allowed to do. required to pay to far 8.8 practicable for German exports, WH. LURIN: "After review by the zone commander"-- except removals of existing plant and equipment.' wouldn't this meet your requirements? The zone commender VR. CLAYTON: Equipment? may withhold removel of any specific item if his Government designates such items as essential to the purpose of his L.R. FOLLER: Equipment. In order to make It clear, occupation. we say, "Exports required to pay for such minimum imports shall be charged to current production prior to reparations." MR. CLAYTON: Does that meet your point? That means that the -amounts required to pay for your imports of oil, rubber, food, or matever the items may be, would be COL. PROWNELL: That would not meet ay point. paid for with German exports before those exports could be charged to the reparations account. MR. LURIN: The Government decides, and not the officer. MR. CLAYTON: Or credited to it. Be had that language MR. LOVETT: That would help, I think, to meet my main objection, but Mr. Clayton has raised 6. point that it in the previous draft, end I think we should have it again. seems to se is not cleerly covered in this perticular draft. MR. FOWLER : I think we intended to have it. Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ OFF. MICROFILM ROLL NO. 19 20 - 19 - - 20 - MR. CLAYYON: Le had the exact language. It in in MR. LUKIN: Ine had the word "from current 1067, the March 28 document. production.' MR. FOWLER: To make that case? MR. FOWLER: "Exports required to pay for such minimum imports shall be charged to current production prior to Mile CLAYTON: This March 23rd document says, "The first reparations from current production. charge on all approved exports President **oosevelt himself wrote in that word hingelf, the word approved. It was the 100. CLAYTON: I don't think "current production" is only change he made. The first charge on all approved sufficient, Joe, because there night be large inventories exports for reparations or otherwise shall be a sun necessary of food or scale other materials on hand which-- to pay for imports.' MR. FORLER: Right. MR. FOWLER: I think it in very important to put that in here. MR. CLAYTON: which ought to be covered. MR. CLAYTON: I think we should have it, too. MR. FOULER: charged to export of stocks, raw materials, or current production of semi-fabricated or MR. FORLER: Then I visualize that if you had fifty finished production. million tons of coal to export and it appeared that you were going to have to import E. certein quantity of oil and MR. DESPRES: I think you have an idea here, Joe, which rubber, the countries that wanted that coal mould have to I en not sure your sentence brings out. I think the notion pay for it, and you would use that money to pay for the you are trying to get at is that production for export to imports In terms of oil and rubber. And before anybody could pay for minimum imports shall be B. part of the minimum get the coal for nothing, you would have charged then out economic activity in Germany that we deem sssential. I of current production the amount necessary to take care of don't think your language quite expresses that. your importing program. MR. LOVETT: That covers it, MR. LUBIN: I think the additional wording you suggest is better, except plants. H.M.JR: Is that all right? KR. CLAYTON: Yes, I think this covers it if we put MR. DuBOIS: Yes. In parentheses. Reed what you have not there nom, MR. CLAYTON: In putting this sentence which I have just 23. DESPRES: "The first charge on all approved exports read from the March 23 document into the document which ne for reparations or otherwise, other than removals of existing are now reviewing, the sentence reads, "The first charge on plant and equipment, shall be 8. sue sufficient to pay for authorized imports. all approved exports for reparations or otherwise shall be 8 sum necessary to pay for imports." It has been suggested KR. CLAYTON: that in putting that sentence into the present document imports. "...shall be assumed necessery to pay for that we should except from it, "existing plant and equipment." In other words, if you approve the removal of certain plants or equipment for reparations, you should not require payment imports. MR. DESPRES: shall be 8. But necessary to pay for for that or align against that to cover any necessary imports. Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ No. PAT. OFF. MICROFILM ROLL NO. 22 - 21 - - 22 MR. FOWLER: such minimum German imports as may be VR. VeCLOY: ...and the removal of those goods from MR. DESPRES: How about just saying "authorized imports?" Termany neens you would have to saip in something in place of it, then think that the ". S. should decida mether it M. CLAYTON: Or "approved?" we usid "approved exports." nante to extend this relief to Czechoslovekia. MR. DESPRES: "Approved imports." Might that be the SN. not: You can't settle relief financing methods first sentence of our paragraph 4? in tuese reparations. MR. CLAYTON: It is agreesble that we substitute that CLAYTO: lies d the sentence egain, please. Please sentence 8.5 read for the following in paragraph 4, "To the witch this cerefully because it is important and you propose extent necessary to pay for such minimum German imports to put It in 1.0 the first sentence in paragraph 4 of this as may be determined to be essential, recipient countries document, "The first charge on all approved exports for should be required to pay so for as practicable for German reparations or otherwise (other than removals of existing exports, except removals?" The proposal is to substitute the plant and equipment) shall be e sum necessary to pay for language which Mr. Despres read for the sentence I just read. approved imports. Accordingly, to the extent necessary Is that agreeable with everybody? to pay for such minimum German imports as any Le determined to be essential, recipient countries should VR. DESPRES: You might keep both, make the recipient be required to pay for German exports, except for countries pay. removals of existing plants and equipment. MR. CLAYTON: Well, all right, I as agreeable to MR. CLAYTON: If there is no dissent, that change will keeping it, but I would out out the prhase so far as be made in paragraph 4. practicable, because I think they ought to be required to pay for any consumer goods of any kind that they get if Now, let's come back to your 10. It seems to ne that that means that me are going to have to reimport it. the burden of proof ought to be on the zone comander of any zone If he is agreeable to the renoval of any plant or MR. LUTHRINGER: Mr. Clayton, 1 think that phrase equipment from his zone for which the other three zone com- was written in, 88 I recall the discussion of the working manders are requesting renoval. I think, Bob, that the group, because it was argued that some countries like burden of proof is properly placed on him, and It seems to Czechoslovakia would be wholly without foreign exchange - that this language is not too restrictive. resources and wouldn't be able to pay for goods which were essential to relief. Now, if we have to make this absolute, Miss LOVETT: 1 think the burden of proof should be why it is made absolute, but I think there are going to be on the zone commander if he is the minority fellow and a great many tough situation arise. that, of course, the decision should be left to the Government. 1 a., merely trying to get the language so drawn as to enable MR. CLAYTON: Well, they can. If Czechoslovakia requires his to refer it to the Government for decision without having goods in Germany for relief for which they are unable to pay-- to make a show of essentiality at that stage of referral. (Col. McCarthy leaves the conference temporarily.) MR. DuHOIS: be doesn't have to make n. BROW to the other commanders, as I understand this language. If he leaves it, it is essential he report that fact to his Government. I think It is different from the case that Colonel Brownell put up. It is one thing to say if all four commanders get together and reach an agreement; it is another thing, as Mr. Clayton Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT PAT. OFF, MICROFILM ROLL NO. 23 23 . 24 says, that this fellow is bucking three commanders. If he - 24 - does that, he ought to feel it is essential before he reports it to his Government. MR. DuBOIS: T agree, Colonel, it is an important point. COL. BROWNELL: The others may have a very indirect I think that in why you are arguing the other side. We interest, and ne may have a direct interest. lie should have already stated the purposes of occupation, and we have have the rurden of proof, but I think both he and his stated them pretty broadly in the point we just put in. If Government should be silowed to retain an item if it is the commander feels in the light of those purposes It is required for the purpose of occupation. essential, that is one thing. If he doesn't feel it is essential-- VR. DOBOIS: Even if they don't think it is essential. ER. LOVETT: In it proposed to have the yardstick COL. BROWNELL: Even if they don't think It la essential. applied by the Government limited by the word "essential?" Essential is one hundred percent wrong wording. That is the way the language reads. The Government, of course-- MR. DuBOIS: Essential to the purpose of occupation. NR. LOVETT: If 20, It is quite B test to place on COL. BROWNEL: It is intended for that. You mouldn't the Government. be arguing if you wouldn't want to restrict the discretion of both the zone commander and his Government. KR. DISPRES: I think the matter night be illustrated in this way: In IPCOG 1 when they call for an effort MR. DESPRES: You don't mant to restrict the discretion to produce the maximum miscellaneous agricultural output, of this Government at all. that is a part of the program of this Government. There- fore, with respect to Germany, I would say a removal which COL. BROWNELL: The Government also sould have to come heavily interferes with this maximum miscellaneous to the conclusion that it tas essential. agricultural output objective would be contrary to the purposes of this Government under the terms of that MR. DESPAES: The criteria of essentiality to the pur- directive. pose of occupation will be laid down in the directives that are given to zone comnanders by the Government. die LOVETY: live might all agree to that, dr. Despres, but no wouldn't be the ones that are interpreting this thing, Now, I have the feeling that in this discussion vie are and - an struggling to get this language as clear as possible really talking about the difference that has arisen over 80 that the poor fellows that have to decide these questions IPCOG 1, but I would say that nowever that came out, this when they come back won't necessarily be limited by the says, essential for the purpose of the occupation." drafting. This Government is free to define its prupose of occupation. It could be to bring the good life to Germans or something X.. CLAYTON: But, Bob, if this says merely that if of that sort, in which case 5. great deal would be essential. be lelieves that It is essential, it seens to ne that that But I would say that that is not a subject for this document. just becomes then a question of his conscience. That is 6. subject that ne do deal with in IP00G 1. COL. BROWNELL: Why not save his conscience? You are saying in effect, Mr. Clayton, that he can get away with It by interpreting the word 'essential" to mean something other than essential? Why don't we use the language we have used two lines above and save his conscience? Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ PAT. OFF. MICROFILM BOLL NO. 25 26 - 25 - - 26 - MR. DESPRES: What Innguage, ainimum required?" mould want to reduce the capacity of Germany below the neans necessary on the theory that those things ought to be brought COL. BROWNELL: Yes, into Germany from the outside. There will be thousands of cases of that sort. MR. DESPRES: I think that la all right. VR. CLAYTON: This la the language that is used in MR. FOWLER: Let ne ssk you about this case proposed the sentence above, "In the execution of the plan, the that the zone commander or the Allied Control Council by Control Council should have the authority to withhold from the maximum miscellaneous agricultural output or coal out- transfer F.E. reparations specific Items the removel of which put could take advantage of the tresendous demand that In its judgment mould reduce the available economic means there will be for those products to establish e fairly below the minimum required to seet the other obligations nigh cash or exchange account with which they could purchase of the occupation. the minima imports of oil and rubber. lion, in the language as you suggest here there is no burden of going forward 25. LIPIN: You have rot the Judgment of four people on the part of the Control Council or the occupation forces there. to try and make Germany cet by without running synthetic oil plants and synthetic rubber plants. /11 they have to IR. CLAYYON: Fot four. do is just my, "If ve ship this plant out and, therefore, can't operate, that reduces the available economic minimum LR. LUMIT: you have got the four commanders In the required to meet the other obligations of the occupation." Control Council. Non, It seems to ne that more than on autopatic certifi- CLAYTON: No, the next sentence SHOWE that the zone cation of that sort is required. The are really seking the consender would only go to the Government in the absence zone commander to any that with all of the retources that of agreement, EO you woulen't have four. may be ovellable to de suen as production nnd role outside, the removal of tale plant is going to nake it impossible AR. LURIS: Well, three. for him to cerry out the purpose of the occupation and Le, therefore, essential that he maintain it. In other Lords, MR. CLAYTOS: Maybe three, or maybe two. you are not leaving any room, It seens to me, for the flexibility of nis operations to achieve the purposes ne MR. LURIS: Four people are going to consider this; the have in mino here, and that is going to one of the primary* judgment of four people is going to be involved, but there responsibilities that " are trying to place on nin. May will be easy instances where you will went to reduce the I suggest that the language be changed, an follows? I productive capacity of Germany below that which is necessary think It would protably be acceptable to everybody. "After to maintain those means, and one of the purposes of this is review by the Control Council, and In the abrence et agree- to cee that other countries are not dependent upon Germany. ment, the zone commander, if he believes the the removel of any specific item from nis zone would reduce the KR. FOLLER: One of the purposes of the paper is to available economic means below the minim require to neet see how quickly Germany becomes dependent upon other ot to attain the purposes of the occupation, he may, with scurcer of supply for things like oil and rubber, and that the specific consent of his Government is the real concern we have here In this paragraph. MR. LUMIN: Absolutely not. live would never agree to M. LOVETY: That is true. that, because there would be many, many instances where THE Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ PAT. OFF. MICROFILM BOLL NO. 28 27 - 28 - . 27 - H.M.JR: T don't know what all this sparring is about. MR. FOWLER: I think it is perfectly true that if after maximizing all of the possible exports and saying MR. PAULEY: Why not go back to the same language all that we hope to get for this is equivalent to two that was in there? hundred million dollars and here is your table of essential imports--and they will call for so much oil and so such H.E.JR: Let's be more frank about this thing. I mean, rubber--and the total value of that in the market outside you have got certain underlying principles, and we have. If is two hundred and fifty million dollars, and therefore, there la something that you don't like about it, say so. we will have a deficit of fifty million dollars here to contend with, and the removal of these particular plants III. PAULEY: Vay I say this? is going to reduce our economic means below the point that Germany can afford to pay to buy rubber and oil from the M. LUPIS: Just el minute, Joe. outside market. Then there would be a case here. m. PAULAY: To come back to the same longuage that MR. LUMIN: T don't believe there would even in that, is in there, It secus to me it given the necessary discretion Joe, I think there would be other less essential Items to our own zone commander. lie must bear in mind that this that shouldn't be Imported that Geruany should 20 without. document that we are drafting here le 8. policy of this Government, and v.e. are only hopeful that It will be acceptable MR. FOULER: T en assuming it is A completely tight to all the other Governments concerned, and however you case on the essential import picture. I think It in e change this, you must not think only of your own zone drafting problem here. commander, but remember that the thing can work eminst you with other zone commanders. I think it is entirely satis- MR. TwBOIS: Coulo I try one other version? factory and discretionary with the zone commander here to the greatest extent that it should be. NR. CLAYSICS: lie will have one nore try, kno that is yours. MR. CLAYTON: Could We just listen to this one more time, Mr. Pauley? It seems to me that essentially the MR. DUBOIS: "the zone commender, If he believez that language which he has read is the same 68 this. Just read any specific item should be retained within nie zone, any, it, please, Joe. with the specific determination of his Government, If such an item is essential to the purpose of occupation, withhold MR. DuBOIS: "The zone commander, If he believes that the removal of such Item.' any specific item should be retained within his zone, may, with the specific determination of him Government, if such MR. CLAYTON: Would that be agreeable to you, Pot? item is essential to the purpose of occupation, withhold the removal of such item. MR. LOVETS: That covers our basic point. VR. CLAYTON: Isn't that almost the sene? COL. BROWNELL: It does not cover the point. FR. PAULEY: 1 don't see any difference. H.M.JR: I em really getting--why don't you sey what you are objecting to? Let's have it out, All this sparring: MR. CLAYTON: Well, is that agreeable to you? MR. LOVETY: That would cover ny principle. MR. FORLER: It adds one change which I think helps meet Kr. Lovett's point. It removes the burden of the zone Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ PAT. OFF. MICROFILM ROLL NO. 29 30 - 29 - - 30 - from certifying the Item in essential. All he does is any he thinks it should be retained, and it in up to this Government to nake the determination. 13. LOVETT: Well, the most we could do in any event, kr. Secretary, is to recommend it. If we approve MR. CLAYTON: It puts the burden of determination the language as presently suggested, 1 should think that of essentiality on the U. 5. Government Instead of the zone would be entirely appropriate for General Hilldring and commander. me to state that it has our individual approval. But that is no ruarantee that the language would be retained. H.W.JR: Excuse me. salt E minute. Let 826 .r. Is that 1067 there? May I see it? I an not familiar Lovett and General Hilldring if this is all right. Can with the point you particularly raised. they recommend this to the Combined Chiefs of Staffy Because this thing gets beck to the very point--1 understand the H.V.JR: 1 didn't raise it; the Joint Chiefs of Combined Chiefs of Staff don't went to go along. Staff raised It. I think that Colonel Brownell-- GEN. HILLDRING: I don't think-- CLAYTON: Porhaps in order to get it settled once and for all, Mr. Secretary, mayoe we had better read this MR. LOVEST: I don't know anything about that. copy of our other document. NR. GLASSER: Joint whiefs of Staff. GEN. HILLIRENT: I think that language is not contrary to this. 1 don't think you want to be in a position of H.S.JR: I an sorry, but I mean I think it is this approving here something which you can't at the same time thing that has been underlying this whole business. Let's recomend to these Joint Chiefs of Staff, and that is get this thing. the I thought we mirht just ns well settle it. I ampreciate the fact that reparations doesn't 20 to the Joint Chiefs GEN, HILLDRING: From what I have heard this norning, of Staff, but 1007 does, and It is the name point. Kr. Secretary--and I don't know--I haven't talked to Colonel Brownell; I just listened to what he said. I don't think IR. LOVETT: It is not related to this document at the same point is involved here. From what I have heard all. of the discussion, the Joint Chiefr of Staff did not challenge the policy of our Government that synthetic B.M.JR: But it is the same principle we have been rubber and petroleum could not be renoved from Germany, arguing hero, and every time we cone up against it, we despite the fact that they might need that petroleum and have the same thing that is being raised, so I would like rubber for their minimum needs, that they didn't take those to met It settled once and for all at this level. things off the black list. CLATTOS: I think you would like for the reparations H.M.JR: No, but we have got some language. You, kr. document in this respect to be consistent with the document Lovett, and you, General Hilldring--you first, please. If We approved on Friday. this language ne are talking about non is acceptable, are you gentlemen in the Dar Department prepared to recomend H.M.JR: That La right, so the representatives of the this to the Chiefs of Staff--is that what the-- Army can go along with It. MR. CLAYTON: I think that is right. llow, to make KR. CLAYTON: Joint Chiefe of Staffy sure that is the case, I think we should pause for a moment to read this short communication from the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM BOLL NO. 32 - 31 - - 32 - of the havy, dated My 2, 1045, attachment b.) (Rending "Menoranduo for the Secretary of ar: Secretary radio and electrical equipment--" and so forth. 71th the proposed change It would read, "prohibit and prevent "The Joint Chiefr of Steff recommend that the Decretary production of iron and steel, checicals, non-ferrous State as follows: of -ar and the Secretary of the unvy Inform the Lecretary of metals (including aluninum and namesium)- They also propose to, "Also insert the words "The Joint vhiefs of Staff cove confidered the military 'synthetle rubber and oll' after the word 'vehicles' in implications of the proposed directivo to the Commander in line 4" of the unne paragraph, which would make it read, Chief, U.S. Forces of Occupation, regarding the allitary "automotive vehicles, synthetic rubber and oil, heavy government of Geruany contained in IP009 1, and with the machinery and important parts thereof, except for the following amendments see no objections from the military purposes stated in recagraphs 4 and 5 of this directive." point of view: The next la "c. Delete the period and add the "m. Delete the period et the end of the Last sentence, following words to the last sentence of paragraph 32." paragraph 30, and that reads, "You will not postpone enforce- The last sentence in 32 rends, "Pending agreement In the ment of the prohibitions contained In e sant = Control Council, you will put some mensures into effect and the Instructions In subpers.craph c without specific In your own zone, and they wish to add "as soon es you approvel of your overnment through the Joint Chlofe of had an opportunity to review and determine production Staff, and add the following: except that, In your necessary for the purposes stated in naragraphs 4 and 5 discretion, you any permit the production of synthetle of this directive. I wouldn't think there wes anything rubber end oil, mlusings son magnesion, to the minimum in those suggestions which-- 4 and 5 of the Birective.' extent necessary to neet the purposes efeted in personable H.M.MR: I ourht to step out of the room because the Joint Chiefs of Staff evidently don't know that the b. That le the first recommention, and the next le Secretary of the Treasury exists, but I might point out that on the recommendation of Mr. Stimoon to President Roosevelt Presldent Roosevelt did appoint n. committee - LOVETY: Paragraphe 4 and S--have you ot those) connosed of the Secretary of State, Tar, and Treasury to deal with Germany, and that committee, so far ns I know, NR. CLAYSE: They are part of the amot. They relate la still in existence. But notwithstanding 1 am here-- to purposes of the occupation, cinizum standard of living I don't know on what basls--to say that the Joint Chiefs and prevention of starvation, cirence, unrest, anu EO forth, of Staff don't know 1 exist--but on whatover basis 1 an that would andanger the occupying forcer, here, I do say that this la not acceptable to me. here in the second: Nov, T have just the first suggestion they cake. MR. CLAYTON: 2111 you excuse me just a minute, please, Mr. Secretary? I think perhaps the reason the Joint Chiefs of Staff communication was framed in the way it was is due "b. Delate the word 'excluding' In Line 2, subpera- to the fact that our covering nemo to the President sending graph n, persgraph 32, and insert the word 'including' in this, or transmitting t:1s document, was si med by the lieu thereof. Subperagraph A non reads, "prohioit and Acting Secretary of State, and we all as a committee signed, prevent production of Iron and steel, chemicals, non-ferrous na you remember, on the bottom of it, and I inagine that metale (excluding aluminum and imperium), machine tools, that in the reason they directed their communication in the way in which they did. Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT MICROFILM SOLL NO. 33 34 - 33 - 34 - H.M.JR: It is just the secretariat they wished on us here, and their method of communicating to the Joint Yow, the point that we raised the other day is that Chiefs of Staff, but-- if the commanding General thought that it was necessary to neet certain production in Termany that he would telegraph MR. COE: I think this has been Landled as a SANCC the Joint Chiefs of Staff E.O in turn mould ask the President document, bran't it? of the United States, or nhoever he designated, and pending right? that decision he could continue production. Is that H.M.JR: But I an just pointing It out. I am sure no discourtesy was meant. a. HILLDRING: Tell, Mr. Secretary, that was the (Mr. Pauley left the conference temporarily.) thing that T advocated nere the day that IPCOG 1 pro- posed, and I can't now say that that is agreenble to the H.M.JR: I think it la stupid the any it who handled, Joint Chiefs of Staff, hut I do any this, Mr. Secretary, but I n.m. accustomed to that, and I just didn't ment to let that If IPCOG 1 had written those words into the document It pass. But we will & on, anyway. they sent the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that I could have sold that to the Joint Chiefs of Staff; we would have gotten a MR. FONLER: Mr. Clayton, there are several substantive document back from the JCS approved. How, the pendulum has effects on those amendments. If you throw this back into E joint working committee be gone from one extreme to the other. I ALL sure, Mr. Secretary, 10. CLAYTON: Could we pass that for n. moment and can get out of It now something agreeable to both bodies. stick to the reparations document? I don't think that these surrestions of the Joint Chiefs of Staff really IPCOG 1 and the other extremity here. We have been at both poles, and we have one extremity in materially affect this matter that we have just been discussing. Now, I can't my what the JCS-- MR. LOVETT: I don't, either. I don't 200 that it has-- VR. LURIS: I think the can solve it, because I know the Joint Chiefs of Staff do not vant to have enything at GEN. BILLDRING: My I say one thing about this papert and they do not intend in this document to say that Cermany allato say shout the economic policy of the United States, MR. CLAYTON: Yes, sir. will be denied Its ability to produce petroleum that it needs. They will not no Into that question. They don't went to GEN. HILLDRING: I think that It can be resolved, Mr. Chairman, if & joint committee of this group and of the you have in mind. tackle it. It is not for then to say, and that is the point JCS ret together 1 think it can be ironed out and resolved. TK: I have got two points in mind. First, I have 15. CLAYTON: Day we just not discuss that right now about is in the reparations- they are exactly the same point. got that point, and It seens to ne the thing you are talking but go on with reparations? We just brought that In because we thought It night affect this matter We are discussing and-- (Mr. Bard entered the conference.) H.V. JR: 1 don't agree with you. Look, if I understand KR. CLAYTON: Mr. Secretary, can't the settle the this thing correctly, the point is whether in the wisdom of the commanding General in Germany he can continue production in connection with this document? I mean, does it make reparations matter now and leave the other to discussion later and that decision can be his. any different about this suggestion in regard to the Joint Regraded Inclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM ROLL NO. 35 36 35 - - 36 - Chiefs of Staff AS to whether Le should adopt this language which Joe has just proposed? If we are all agreenble to that agreeable to everybody? I heard no objection? And if there language, can't ne adopt it end PO on with reparations? is none, it will be adopted in place of the last sentence-- in place of the third from the last sentence in Item 10. H.M.JR: You can if the Army representatives will say % will delete the sentence which reads, "After review by that this language which we agreed on the other day 62 far the Control Council end in the absence of agreement, the ss this committee mas concerned, is still acceptable to them zone commander If he believes that the retention of any in the form of E recommendation. specific Item within his zone le essential to the purposes of the occupation, may with the specific consent of his govern- GEN. HILLORING: 1 will fight for that language with ment withhold the removal of such item. For that sentence all T have. ne will substitute--will you read it please? MR. LOVETT: D. Secretary, to go back to the nistory KR. DUBOIS: "After review by the Control Council and of this committee, the people that have been working on in the absence of agreement, the zone commander, if ne this reparations problem have not heen concerned with some belleves that any specific Item should he retained within of the attitudes expressed there. I think, 11 General his zone, may with the specific determination of his Government Hilldring pointed out, the Joint Chiefs got off on the wrong that such Item In essential to the purpose of the occupation, foot because the conclusions reached here were not correctly withhold the removal of such items. stated in the paper subsitted to thes. In fact, It NOS just the reverse. MR. LUBIN: Why don't you just-- B.R.JE: I agree. H.E.JR: Excuse no. Will that be the same language as 1067? MR. LOVETY: Naturally they were concerned about It. Now that the matter has been restored to the declsion 88 VR. CLAYTON: No, Kr. Secretary, that is 8. reparations initially made, Ceneral milldring and 1 will do what be sp- language, but It doesn't belong in 1067. propriately can to express our views and recommendations on this. That is not, however, to say we have any means of H.M.JR+ Hut pending-- compelling the Joint Chiefs of Steff to take action one key or the other. MR. LOVETT: This deals with the permanent business. H.M.JR: What you said is all 1 want. MR. DUBOTS: To this extent, you see, : I understand it, to the extent that the determination of whether or not MR. LOVETT: All right, sir, tast is satisfactory. these things are to reasin even temporarily will depend upon the decision of this Government to communicate it through H.W.JR: That is all. the Joint Chiefs of Staff that they are essential even for that temporary purpose. MR. CLAYTON: Can " take up reparations? 10. LOVETT: Our recommendation to the Joint Chiefs H.K.JR: Yes. of staff will be In line with the sentence just read. Whether they will adopt that precise lenguage or not, I an KR. CLAYTON: In the language which We were discussing unable to say. when we picked up this document from the Joint Chiefs of Staff Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM ROLL NO. 37 38 - 37 - - 38 - H.M.DR: That is agreeable to ne. GEN. HILLORING: I would support that view. PR. LURIN: Would you prefer to have it In nine? IR. DONNEY: It wouldn't nake fi bit of difference. H.M.JR: All right. MR. CLAYTON: All right, that takes care of that. LR. LIBIN: O.K. Each of the four occup/ing powers Are there any other suggestions about paragraph 10? and roing materials including current output and excluding ocean- remove from its zone of occupation in Sernan plants, equipment may merchant tonnage. Mr. Secretary, it seems to se that when this is MR. DOBBY: You say 07 rewritten that we should have one more meeting at the risk of somebody who will think of something else that is to be NR. LUED: Yes, changed. I think it in important that we have one more meeting and go over It very carefully. It is an entirely important document, as we all agree, I an sure. As to KR. DOWNEY: That would implementing the icen. I this Reparations Document, T think we should have It would like to get the lose in where he mentioned it first redrafted in accordance with our agreement here today and that our notion in that the ships should co first into the pool and thereafter be subject to case fair division, but then no over it one more time. not necessarily e strictly zoneal division. I just want to leave it open. is. DOINEY: Mr. Clayton, in one of the earlier sections of this document n. change 201 made in line with the surgestion Mr. Bard mde. No have n. small suggestion to sake on that. FR. CLAYTON: I think the point in very well taken. surrested, and then put in 9 the may Vr. Lubin suggested, .e might put it in both places, in G at the point that you MR. CLATTOS: On the Reporations Document? MR. BARD: Paragraph 3 -. at the end. DOWNEY: That would be perfect. MR. DOINEY: That last reference to perchant shipping. E.N. It 1a excluding ocean-going ships? You remember, It was suggested the other day that in the first instance the general policy should be to ret all of WA. anoth That is right. the perchant shipping wherever situated into the pool. MR. LIMIT: Yes, I think the Havy feels elso that in the eventual treatment of Havy shipping me should not necessarily now accept the principle that it should go to the country in whose nono they happen to be for the reason that so each of the German but I think for the purposes here It is adequate. DOLLEY: That may not be exactly the right terminology shipping by the action of the British Sevy, the American Air Forces, and the British Air Forces, has been forced into in the pool? MR. TLASSER: that flag will they E° under when they positions in the Baltic that probably would artificially nut much more In the Bussian zone than normally would be the Ex, DANEY: I don't know. case. I would like to suggest, therefore, in that parenthetical clause where we say that, "This Government favors the inclusion of German ocean going tonnage In the shipping pool until the end of the war against Janan", that problem by discussing its distribution after the end of NR. TLASSER: I don't think you are really solving the we Insert there "...and its division on some fair basis the war sith Japan, or termination of the pool. Isn't your thereafter. Just leave the thing open. Regraded Unclassified PRECISION MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM BOLL NO. 40 = 40 - 39 - 12. FOWLER: And by that device remove from the American reparations-- problem really first, that they enter the pool, and second, the terms on which they enter the pool, under GEN. HILLDRING: The trouble, Joe, is that you come which flag. Into the problem then of having to provide ammunition for them which has been produced only in Germany. If you could be sure that it wouldn't serve in the end to continue MR. DORNEY: What I - trying to do is not to be fore- the plants which originally produced them in order to closed. replace the weapons themselves, 1 think it would be all right. M. READ: A pool is = joint operation. (Mr. Lubin leaves conference temporarily.) ER. DONNY: Tie don't know what is going to happen. MR. FONLER: That is n. very good suggestion in the ER. LUBIN: The flar does not necessarily determine 11:41 of what you have anid. the ownership. - CLAYTON: Acide from the point that General YR. CLAYTON: There in one point before - leave tain Hilldring has made, lan't It 6. good plan just to destroy first reperations document that Fr. MoCloy-- that stuff? E.Y. JR: The rurel buergerneister? GEN. HILLIKING: It is a two-edged sword. If the could avoid the replacement rroblem by equiping French divisions MR. CLAYTON: Do, but be Led = very rood point that ] with German equipment, we would save the American taxpayer don't believe is adequately covered, If covered at all, in n. lot of money. this document, and that is that gune and amaunition and things of that king should not be considered subject to (ir. Pauley re-enters the conference.) removal at reparations, that they thouls be destroyed, and I think that le a good point. = think it ought to be covered MR. BARD: You Lnve got a program now supplying France in there that guns and ammunition and things of that kind with a lot of stuff. You wouldn't want to include ships in should not be considered 5.8 Items to be removed at repara- that. tions because, of course, ne don't want to get into a question of dividing up war-making equipment with these different MR. DESPRES: For most types of weapons-- countries, ano his point WBE that things of that kind should be destroyed immediately, and I think that that is B very MR. CLAYTON: Not ships. good point. Put we can discuss it here if anybody nas e different point of view. MR. DESPRES: The weapons would not be good for very long unless they get replacement parts, and if we don't let MR. FOLLER: Isn't it the existing production in the them open the factories-- form of guns and war equipment that is on hand as distinct from that that might be produced by the plants in question, MR. LOVETY: The French factories, to be specific, have but the existing stocks of those rune and amunition--war- been making parts and ammunition for German metric calibers. naking equipment--nren't they confiscated 58 war booty? They have n. somewhat different problem. I would like to see it go. I don't know whether It is apropos here or not, but (Fr. Reil lenves the conference.) we have a specific problem that I think might be brought out Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT PAT. OFF. MICROFILM ROLL NO. - 42 - . 41 to get Mr. Pauley's Judgmont on. Take a case like the CEN. HTLLDRING: Joe, isn't that one of your projects? vast underground factories like in Nordhausen, to be VR. FORLER: Absolutely, yes, sir, specific. There me another one with some twenty-seven kilometers of tunnels. Nordhausen has approximately four hundred five thousand square feet of artlfically ventilated E. WILLDHING: Aren't you working on this early and late? manufacturing snace under n. mixture of limestone and granite cliff. It is almost impossible to not to It. From the ER. FOLLER: General Minton, General Wolfe and point of view of future peace, the Air Force would like to Admiral Husek are compiling-- see all the ammunition and junk we could not torether put in that place and blow It up so It comes down and thereafter AR. LOVETT: A special comuission, provide that everything that Gereany builds be built on the surface of the ground, because otherwise they are going to no underground, and as I say, these two enormous plants IN. FORLER: Project one, two, and four of our group over there-- M. DESPRES: It is a complicated little matter of MR. PAULEY: Certainly you Love no disagreement with language. There are the samples you don't want to :estroy, no on that. but keep for examination, and so forth. That is why I thought it would be useful if the Lar Department-- MR. LOVETT: And 1f--1 an bringing this up now because we ought to retain enough of this explosive or other junk HILLDRING: My point is, rather than refer itto to put in there and bring the whole works down. :ou could the her and Navy Departments, refer it to your committee. do it. ML LURIN: As for as this commission is concerned, MR. PAULEY: I heartily endorse It. all ne want are instructions. live can't treat those taings as reparations. How you handle them, we don't give a damn. MR. CLAYTON: I do, too. NR. CLAYTON: Will the working group try to include 6. XR. HARD: Some of those big plants are in the area paragraph to that effect in that sense? Yow, we have this Russia would take over. very short document, one page and e quarter, on the use of Serman Inbor and reparations. MR. LOVETT: That is right; that is why I mention it. If we could collapse those big underground things; and if FOLLER: Lr. Chairmen, since the last meeting I we can require in some fashion that Germany thereafter--1f have had reveral talks with Er. Cromley on this point, and they do any rebuilding at all, they be permitted to build T want to nake several points clear for the record, first, only on the surface, I think we would 70 a long way toward in reference to taking this matter to the public, It ⑉ very definitely implied in his remark that that would be preserving peace. only after be would have become e private citizen, and MR. CLAYTON: If the committee agrees that some provision there was no implication on his part 6.5 n member of this be written into this document regarding runs and amminition, committee to transfer our discussions to the public. I the destruction of it, why, I suggest that We ask the Mar think that was not implied, end I want to nake it clear Department to try to draft a clause that would cover that. here for the record. Two, we have had discussions with him on this matter, and I aux persuaded that the difference is only in language and clarity of statement and not any Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT MICROFILM ROLL NO. 45 - 44 - - 43 - HR. BLRD: You don't think this paper would create B. different in substantive point of view, and the draft strong controversy based on what is in the Yalta agreement? that T.S.S submitted here this corning would have his endorsement for inclusion either se a separate document or on n paragraph MR. PAULEY: There is nothing to unte that 1 have read in the paper in which we have been addressing ourselves. that--I should put it this way-that there is nothing T have read that we have said that would be contrary to MR. CLAYTON: Fine. this. I don't believe that this is exactly the Russion's idea of the situation, homever, but I see nothing inconsis- You we will rend It, (Rends "Draft Statement of Later tent In our presentation of this viewpoint. It may not be Reparations, sttechment V.) agreed to by Russia or the British. Non, what in the first cousent to be finde on this ER. CLAYTON: T think that is the point, whether there domment? Le anything In this document which is inconsistent with the discussions that surrounded the Yalta agreement; and if The I would like to nick 5. question. Lre there there is not, I think we might proceed with the discussion, any records of what LEZ sald st Yelts vita payment to this don't you, Mr. Pauley? subject? MR. PAULEY: Yes. BR. CLAYTON: Yes, dr, there are, I think 10 for et I know there are one or two copies locked up In e nate. I MR. CLAYTON: T take it there is no comment on 1. 2 have never seen 000, in no followe: "This goverment in strongly of the view that Germene other then those deserving of punishment rhould NR. PAVLEY: I DATE seen It, It. Secretary. not be called upon to perform compulsory labor service outside Germany. H.W.Jh: You have? ER. LOVETT: Does use of the words deserving of The point ! en making In, : don't think ne ment to punishment should not be called upon to perform. instead fly in the face of something that airht Injure our position of sponsor, or something like that, carry 8 connotation of vin-a-vis Russia. If be knew what BEI In the comment== requirement of 8. triel of some sort? MR. PAULEY: I can only say this, that the discussion 13. FORLER: The specific language spelling out 2 is we reneral, and we at least perticipated in It without in 3. I think your point in better raised in connection objection to the discussion on the une of labor, but there with 3 than 2. was nothing that : know of it the discussion that would preclude our takin- this position that her just been rend. ER. LOVETT: O.K. JR: You are confident of that? (Secretary leaves the conference temporarily.) 1R. PAULEY: However, my own personal position in this sin. LOVETT: It NOS to lay background for 3 where there matter is that I don't want to express any consent on this are completely different programs, ne I understand it. Mar particular thing at all, except to simply say that it either criminals will be tried, and a program for other groups doer or does not neet the entire viempoint of tris group to which will not require court proceedings-- the President, end If there are other viewpoints, I will present those to him. I would like to have the benefit of everybody's discussion on it. Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM ROLL NO. 46 - 46 . - 45 - Mis. LOVETY: Either by the use of the words deserving of punishment, or responsible for certain action.' VR. FURLER: They will only require those proceedings that are adequate to entisfy the language that the individual MR. BAND: I would like to bring up the question as to le definitely determined by appropriate process to be in whether the word "Germans" is broad enough. You have got Italy; the group. you have got a strange fishy crowd that is fighting us steadily. You might have the same with the segment of BR. CLAYTON: T think 8 is the point, really, thet Le the Poles that might have been back of the Germans. I want to discuss. don't think "Germans" is & broad enough term. AR. RIDDLEBENDER: Mr. Secretary, perhaps I could MR. LOVETT: I have no viens on the thing et all. T elaborate on that point by saying under Nazl legislation." 821 trying to respond to ir. Pauley's suggestion that If there are any possible week points In here ne teke a rood It is very far-reaching. I think this language would catch look et them. And reading the thing for the first time almost any person of German descent in these areas around es I have here this norning-- Germany. VR. COS: Really, instead of " other then those de- MR. BARD: You've got several divisions of Italians serving of punishment, It should be, other than those that just surrendered. included in 8." MR. LOVETT: This is 6. paper relating only to reparations N. CLAYTON: : think that 2 is sort of surpluses and from Germany. 3 says very definitely that compulsory labor services should MR. PAULEY: I think the point is well taken, plus the be required only from individuals definitely of that type, and so forth. Doesn't it make 2 sort of surpluser? fact that it is well known that the Aussians have already taken more than one million so-called sympathizers out of an. FOLLER: T think If you want to say other than humania. And what they are doing with them, no one knows. those referred to in persgraph 3, it would be perfectly But I think all of those points should be discussed, not setisfactory. It is just a quertion of getting exclusively with the view of what we want to do with them, e definitive statement of principle. but the problem- anticipating what the mussians' thinking along this line might be. MR. COR: You have the same thing in 3, Joe, "Coo- pulsory labor service should De required only from---" MR. LIBIR: In view of the fact that the first sentence refers to the Yalta Agreement and deals only with German labor, KR. FOLLER: If you want to any that this Government it is necessary to use the words in 2, "This Government is is strongly of the view that compulsory labor service strongly of the view that persons other than those." This should be required only from indiviouals, that-- night become a general policy with respect to the U.S. MR. COE: Then you Leve got the mole thing. MR. CLAYTON: I suggest that we change paragraph 2 to read 8.8 follows, "This government is strongly of the view Kit. LOVETT: You usy get some assurance that vis-n-vir that persons other than those specified in 3 below as the American public by having a statement in tno. deserving of punishment should not be called upon to--" VR. FOLLER: That is right. MR. LUBIN: will, my objection to that is this, we may find other groups or individuals who don't fit into this category that have been cooperating with the Germans that we will want to put under the category of deserving of punishment. Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM ROLL NO. 4% - 48 CLAYTON: That It covered In the latter part of frem mar criminals and individual: definitely determined by 3, leading colleborators, supporters of and nertici- appropriate process to be members of the Gestapo, and so pants In the Seri party or deinistration." If It lm't, forth. the nt the beginning of three in wrong, because it neys, "Compulsory inhor service should he required only MR. LOVET?: When you say from V.S.P criminale," from Individuale, and EO forth. does that nean that you pick then up after they nave been sentenced, or you pick then up after they Love been determined Cor, with that discussion, see If you visi agree on ver criminals? Because otherwise they might be centenced this: Change 2 to rond 1.2 follows, "Date overtment le to six months of herd Intor, whereas, you went to give them etrongly of the view that persons other than those specified three years. In 3 below no deserving of punishment moulu not be called upon to perform compulsory Istor cervice outside of Terrary," As n. person in convicted as to war criminal which new reads, "Compuisory Intor service mould be required and individuals definitely-- only from individuals definitely determined by appropriate process to be war criminale, members of the Destaro, the E.D., sili. TLASSER: This in not in lieu of punishment for the Sicherheitscienst 16P S.S., Insurers of the take, or reing il ser criminal. These nar criminals could go on the leading collaborators, supporters of ena participante in compulsory labor service, and either before they ¿° on or the Easi party or addinistration." Too, It in these two after they go on, they could suffer whatever punishment Is peragraphe that we are considering. meted out to them by e court by judiciary procest. This langusge will take care of that, because 8.5 a Reporations MR. LOVETT: Ind the thing : trying to raine, Jill, Document, it doesn't raise the cuestion shether this person is the lumping in the group here of that class of wer criminale in available. The court nicht eny he is available, and they in which the Ter Crizes Commission superently is considering could pick him up, or my, *.ix sonths at hard labor." ne some sort of jusicial determination, ENG the other group is not svailable for reparations until the in nade available beginning with the merhare of the Gentapo, and EQ forth who for that type of work. are determined through appropriate process to be parte of that organization. Persons you could distinguish between LOVSTT: But this would not stop you from using then hg saying something like this, '...to be required only those fellows. from individuals determined by appropriate process to be ver criminale, and sentenced to such lobor, end 1, GLASSER: They are only available If the court individuals definitely determined by sepropriate process rays 80. to be members of the Sentaro, the 12," and 20 forth. ED. CLAYTOR: "Compulsory labor service should be MR. CLAYTOS See If this doesn't neet It, "Compulsory exerted only from ver criminals and individuale definitely labor nervice should be exerted only Iron mar criminals or determined by appropriate process to be members of the individuals definitely determined by appropriate process Cestapo.' to be nambers of the Destapo:" KR. GLASSER: Key : raise 6 possible change in your PR. HAND: Tap criminale covers everybody, to matter number 27 Can se say--instead of "05" say, "...or whether they are Poles, French, or-- otherwise deserving of punishment. "If you will reso it back, I will stop you. IR. CLAYTON: And Instead of "or." Then it would K. CLAYTON: Then you introduce qualifications that read, "Compulsory labor service should be required only have not been covered, apparently, anywhere, end you want to Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ PAI, OFF, MICROFILM BOLL NO. 50 - 49 - 50 - toy this Government in strongly of the view that persons other than those specified in 3 below or otherwise deserving previously where there is E bed group whose actions continued of punishment--well, 2 takes care of a rood deal of it later, underground, werewolf, or whatever you want to call it. otherwise, and if you want to put shother--hom do you cover MR. FOLLER: It is a point looking to the future that it? ve will net to take into account. It would seen to me, though, V. That ve want to cover is, I snould think that it raises some questions of procedure and of standards that in 2 that those persons ELO are deserving of punishment-- and tests, and what we are really doing here is maying that that La the test of their selection for compulsory jabor now that those people who are war criminals and who are determined by appropriate processes to have been members service. of these groupe are going to be included. Now, we say that In 3 we have various classes of persons that would fit that standard. Rom, there may ce others. you, when you bring In either "...or otherwise deserving You my they are covered by this general category, but really, of punishment, or lqok to It which includes categories they are not, because you might want to include these who are, %e aren't discussing here, or you deal with people who in for instance, members of the neremolf organization or violators the future any be determined deserving of punishment, it of ourvent laws or those who are opposing occupation that had seems to me we are getting into questions that had better not, perhaps because of age, been in the 55 or the verlous be handled by socie kind of supplementary process other than this one here. organization. 10. CLAYTON: The is coins to determine? kiv. "LASSAR: lie are not handling--wat We are doing in number = is simply maying we will not take anybody unless 1R. FORLER: That is the problem here. he is deserving of punishment. Later on we make no provision in this document for taking care of future kere- ER. GLESSER: Well, they are available for reparations wolf organizations, but at least our policy is clear that if they are nembers of the werenolf organization. if In the future at come future time no want to take care of then, we can under the general policy of 2. There le no 10. LUHIS: Let's accune tust some citizen Two DES provision Lere for taking of traffic violators or even future never been B. member of these organizations just sabotaged nerewolf members to putting then or. there cance. However, our policy is such test they can be included later. the occupation. MR. LOVETT: Le comes under the active underground. MR. FOLLER: T think when you net into this question of who in otherwise deserving of punishment without defining MR. LUBIN: And he was sentenced by the American billtary whether you are referring to people who steel breed or Court in Geneany to ten years of Lard Innor, and the Court violate scae of the German lane or ordinces or nome of the says, "We can have him for reparations. Lay shouldn't ve special Laws that are issued by the occupation authorities, take him?" you get to questions of degree which we are-- MR. CLAYTON: Isn't that covered in 3? 18. We are not taking those up here; we are net considering that. All we are saying is in the future MR. LUMIN: It in five months from now that this happens. in accordance with United States policy they can be con- sidered and discussed, Le are not decluing that question MR. LOVETT: The point they are trying to make is, here et all. this denls only with those whose bed actions have occurred Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ PAR, OFF. MICROFILM ROLL NO. 51 C 51 52 52 - VR. BARD: This is only advisory to the Reparations Commission, anyway. If this question comer up in Voscom that this should be included no they can discuss It-- ment other should then those specified in 3 below n.g deserving of punish- DR. CLAYTER: See if this would cover It, "This organizations "administration" the following: " or of other after the word outside Termany," and that ke add to compulsory 8 service not be called upon to perform lebor government la strongly of the view that Germans, other than those specified in 3 below, or otherwise determined by ap- better. bontile to Allied purposes. I think that similar in propriate processes at deserving of punishment, should not be called upon to," and to forth. supporters Vic. FUBLER: of, or participants Deez that modify in, 02-- the leading collaborators, M. FOREER: The is going to determine that they are worthy of this perticular type of punishment, and her that You because can't . force masher there of the pays weremolves to join. mould do that anybody voluntarily. who ER. LUMIN: I vould any It should, because is going to be provided for? Now, we are going--in the light of the record to date we are taking these particular groups, and se are making then available and eligible for this type of service. It little kneed. vice violates the to or worrying steals . unles the fellon willing to take Into account, case, about FL T - HELER: You are worrying about the merewolf semir to me that you are opening up Pendora boxes if you bring in any general classification to e lot of very fine questions of derree which, if you are coing to provide for here--it isn't just - simple drafting problem of including a general cetegory which in an open-door claure for building up this compulsory Intor service to unpredictable dimensions. other the timilar party or € to extends lest ER. LURIS: This mys be has not to donl--it ER. COE: That do you think the dimensions of this pressure the future. to Ind type or may rise in other Lords, openisations hostile In proupare, Joe? have you unde any figures? 1R. FOLLER To. or porters, in other shiller participants in the legi party sup- the and VSP: It would be leading collaborators, MR. COS: T icnos the French themselves have anked for organizations, nostile to or Allied edulnistration, purposes. three million. to T yould have ner say, members of, because if you "leading," are 1. 1 mouldn't my there you want 11. FORMENT And It la that kind of three million requests for compulsory labor service bithout reference to Members. Into then: they are going to be voluntary are not to be drafted organizations In the future; they going going whether or not the individuals are--their actions OF conduct are deserving of tale kind of very special extraordinary treatment which is the problem that 1 - bothering US. It it that three million figure. di purposes) nonths offer that Le E FM Inbor In occuration: union that becomes organized, Allied say, It that in nn organization hostile to MR. LUBIN: If you rend that centence again-- CLAYTON: If I any read my suggestion, I think It - LUKES: If you AM coing to cut to that extreme-- le better, "This government is strongly of the view that persons That le the extress you at to. Regraded Unclassified TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ PAT. OFF, MICROFILM ROLL NO. 53 54 54 - - 53 particular cloak foster and develop certain conspiratorial actions in which the hundred and hundreds of menbers who RN. LURIK: If you mend = SAD to forced larer because joined it in good faith, no assuming that they were being be Joine 5. Johns onton, you micht SP well stop amount. tied into an organization of that sort, are inducted into this particular type of service. (Tr. Holey leaves the conference temporarily.) Now, the groups that ne have identified here--as Mr. C. PAIR: To are making to the middleberger pointed out yesterday, no know that any German Reparations Completee that they es this about that subject who becaue = member of these groups or was a leader, col- salen pay come vp. That 1: all te are noine. laborator, supporter, or participant in the bazi party is by the token, even though he went into it with his eyes - And this 1855, Joe, that ne to be open and were what vas going on--what you nie talking about determined by suproprinte process to be ENCE Il peteral, you is something for the future. ae would have no objection to coo. including here, "or others convicted of substantial action hostile to the purpose of the occupation deserving of similer - It says, "...other rinilar or anisations, punishment." on the other hand, I don't think we want to similar to the heav party. 6° out too far in allowing this principle of guilt by association for future organizations and future groups that RE. FOULEN: tell, - think this requires quite = may develop-- statement. Let's look there fhots in the inco. Whet we are noing Le Indulgion . principle of milt by merociation, MR. RIDDLEBERGER: Couldn't we meet our point by perhaps which Le justified, secording to our traditions, because we another sentence merely to the effect that menters of the think T.E. can clearly establish F case that persons TDD unve underground or other organizations dedicated to the Nasi been sembers of the croups Identified here or by that system or ideas would be eligible for compulsory labor? token without any other proof AS to the action that they may have committed " menters of that organisation:in becoming 30WLER: Sure, something of that sort. sctive members of the organization, they have no bound themselves Into the acte that are nounitted to that organize- like BaRD: I think if you say, as Joe has, or other tion, and you are coine to, without my further proof of Nazi organizations"-- Individual action other then becoming members of tale organization, to mil them Into this perticular type of MR. FOWLER: "...or others found guilty- treatment. how, that In en expedient which no are coopting Lere to provide for the Insuction of respe into tule MR. BARD: I agree with you that you don't want to compulsor/ labor service. subject a whole organization to what 8 few individuals might do. Non, If you want to 400 something to cover the persons nho are milty of substantial action in opposition to the (Mr. Downey reenters the conference.) purposes of the occupation, it seem to as that you--ke ought to DD back to our principier of !inding the individual 2R. FOWLER: These individuals were ready to do that, jullty of those actions. Everybody knows what cappet. but in the future organization-- Somebody starts : club or organization, n marchine and charter club or trade walen or A literary society, or God like BARD: If the question of werewolves comes up when KNOWS what, and all of " sudden somebody proves that certain you are talking, in most cases you can discuss it. senters of that organization meeting together under that Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT MICROFILM BOLL NO, 55 56 to m. FOSLEN: 1 nm just vendering. 1 think your wording EST all right. who CLAYTON: That is very broad. FOILER: 1 v.s.p juet wondering about the application R. There are CASES in the courte voing of this vin military organizations in : concreto back for years and years in this country for which all Suppose comeboly wreeke E freight train. You 170 out and defenders of civil liberties and justice have opposed this et the fellows that put the dynnsite on the track and the type of mose condennation of individuals. fellows that hourdst the dynemite and the fellows that 1970 tied in and to their action furnished D definite con- How, we are making en exception here in these perticular spiracy against the occupation. You don't necessarily- cases because there is, of course, well-ertablished proof regarding these Toups. how, you open that up to the future, D. HARVE ...800k the mole organization. and it works back. HOLLER: ...EOCK the whole organization 11 11 VE. CLAYTIN: All right, butwould this be satisfectory, " aight have other legitimate functions. or other persons determined by appropriate process to be members of the underground or other organizations dedicated L.K. This has leading collaborators, to the continuation of Nasim or Geruan militerism?" supporters of-- UK. 7 have no objection to making It broader In. FOLLEN: Lubin eaye ne doesn't vant that nodifi- in E. nifferent may. ostion, the emphasis on "leasing" to apply to this additional category. U.S. BAND: will you restate shat you mid fl minute ago? S.H. CLAYTON: Let's see if this Janguage that is to IN or other persons determined by sp- be added to paragraph 3 would cover it, "...or other persons propriate process to be members of the underground or other determined by appropriate process to be members of the organizations dedicated to the continuation of Mazia or underground or other organizations dedicated to the continu- Common ation of Tenism." EMPOIS: Wouldn't It be "enguped"? KR. LOVST: 1e want to nit the military and not just bill. POULTR: " the hasis in there, too. requiring substantial punishment." ER. COF: 100 "militerists." ... HARD: 1 think that is all right. R. DECTION: That is not . separate thought. R.M.JR: I like - Lovett's suggestion about bringing in the military. Litte LOVETT: Sure It is. IR. LURIN: Couldn't you say, others engaged or KR. COS: 10 use Mazian and ulliterina in 1007. determined by appropriate authority to to engaged in nota--?" Sould that take care of it? ER. CLASSER: Can we cay, decleated to purposes nostile to the United Nations?" CLAYTON: It seems to Le this covers it, "or other persons determined by appropriate process to be members of the underground or other organizations dedicated to the continuation of Nazien or Geruan militerism." Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ PAT. ON. MICROFILM BOLL NO. 58 is - 58 - - 57 MR. LIBIN: Instead of using "organization," say MR. LOVETT: Mr. Fowler, isn't there confusion If between the type of actions which bring criminal pro- to be engaged in activities. ceedings and subsequent jail sentence and the types of activities--this is broad, you have to envisage-- CLAYTON: to te en aged in activities dedicated which do not put the fellow in jail, but make him Mill to the continuation of Mazism or German militarism. take a part in rebuliding the damage that the action that he is continuing to perpetuate brought about? MR. COE: You don't dedicate. MR. FORLER: How, I think to answer that--yes, sir, in discussing this 4 b., the standard of living and conditions of employment, should conform to humane - LIBIN: in activities-- standards. There was some surgestion that we modify the humane standard in our original draft to read, MR. DESPRES: directed to--" according to that required of prison labor or convict labor, and the problems you are going to treat in this category are not even deserving of that M. CLAYTON: directed toward the continuation type of treatment. I have no quarrel with that point, or all other persons determined by appropriate process but this compulsory labor service, being a mild kind of to be engaged In activities directed toward the continuation temporate punishment that you might give a fellow for of Nazian or Gerian militarism." stealing a loaf of bread--this process is a pretty serious business. ar. Crowley's point is, I think, Is that agreeable? that the punishment is to fit the crime. MR. FOLLER: This language here, I think is broader Miss LOVETT: They are going to get pushed around, and would be more preferable, ...or other persons determinec there is no question about that, but doesn't dr. Clayton's by appropriate process to be guilty of action requiring sub- language really cover the point that we are discussing here? Doesn't it essentially meet your objective? stantial punishment." E.M. DED: Tast may have nothing to do with the MR. CLAYTON: I would like to point out, just to fellow who is working to retain militarism in Germany. support what Ar. Lovett has said, that in this 3 we specifically include as people eligible for this compulsory labor service people WILO are guilty of Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM ROLL NO. 59 60 - 60 - - 5a - build up over 5. substantial period of time for the future petty crimes in the ordinary criminal sense, and the a system of this sort which is repugnant to us? I don't persons who will be required for compulsory service believe that we would want to support that for the future. will only be members of the Gestapo and other organi- Let's tie it down to the past, to a retroaction. zations of that character, and leading collaborationists, supporters of, and participants in the Nazi party or MR. CLAYTOR: I don't quite understand the logic of administration so that the language which I have read your argument, Joe, because, If I understand you. language is consistent with that, because it says, other correctly, you are for making eligible for requir ent persons detendined by appropriate process to be engaged of compulsory labor service outside of Germany & EAS who In activities directed toward the continuation of night steal a loaf of bread or a plow from a German. Nazism or German militarism. Kh. HOLLER: I an not-- MR. FOMLER: AP. Clayton, what this all boils down MR. CLAYTON: I have ay serious doubts ss to whether to is this, that in endorsing or going along with the you should take that kind of petty criminal and nake him compulsory labor service principle the here in the eligible or subject to compulsory service outside of United States have this particular type--we here in Germany. How, the language, on the other hand, which I the United States are going along with the principle have read here is directed toward discouraging in every which has always been repugnant to us. be are going vay possible any person in Germany, certainly for the along with it in 8. particular case because of the next fen years, the immediate future, from continuing facts that have been pointed out. These groups the sind of activities which brought on this war and have participated and promoted a crime society, which if continued might bring on another one; that is and some amount of restoration of the damage that the justification for the language such as I suggested. they have caused through their own efforts is required. MR. FORLER: Mr. Clayton, please make this clear. We are satisfied with the language ss is because it deals Now, in taking It out of the context of past with the groups that have been guilty of action in the past. action and fitting It to future action, we are giving lie don't want to enlarge this concept to nake this a life to a system which God only knows hom long It will catch-all kind of arrangement into which can be included continue. It is a system of punishment for action or thousands or hundreds of thousands of individuals who may crime that it seens to me me ought to end with this in the future counit various kinds of acts. war, and I don't know any as one of the by-products of the war ne legin to open for the future a continued the CLAYTON: I sun not suggesting any addition; the induction of additional individuals In this type of suggestion came from around the table that ne broaden it conduct. If there are veremolves, Let's take then to Include these other categories. now, if the Allied out and shoot them. 4f there are people who perform willtary Government mants to deal with this werewolf nots of violence that are contrary to the interests activity in such a way as to impose the most severe of the occupation, let's punish then. but why do ne sentences, death, life imprisonment, or any of that type of severe penalty, there is certainly not much opposition to that here. Most of the opposition la for giving birth nere to a system of compulsory Inbor service that la not only going Regraded Unclassified PRECISION MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM BOLL NO. 62 61 61 - 62 to apply to the groups that have been guilty of this kind carry on the stme type of notivity which we are socking of action in the post, but also action in the future. It already in this? Is not E healthy thing, and the sconer that te get back to the normal processes of punishment for crize In Permany, KR. LUBIN: I sue Joe's point, but that is immaterial. think the better off v.e will be. he wants to stop once and for ell the une of compulsory labor, stop it at the point that Includes those. Any nen crimes 1% DuBOTS: Joe, 1 would like to my this or this of a similar type shell be treated socie other any. whole question of concern about the resetion here. 1 realize that events any E few years from now, but I Fit. FOLLER: It in just this, Dr. Bard, that this don't think we can overlook the feet that in July, even poison base started to take effect not, the Germans have before the report of strocities enge out, that seventy- started it. They have imported--I don't know want the one percent of the people, according to the Gellup Poll, figures are, but eight, ten, or twelve million people. favored having three or four million Teruans rebulld That M.D.D El specific question seked of the, and I think, en. COS: tie size going along, because there is a lot myself, tbst you prestly exaggerated the reaction of the of unange to be repaired. I object to all the overtones American people or this. lion, NO have already nerrowed the about poison and the rest of it. le there something in- thing.cown, really, in e : sould personally ruess, proper or From which is being dose here? that wasn't contemplated. It meant, LE specifically spelled out--I bet the hursiens dian't think of terms of there 28. FOULER: In this draft there is nothing. limitetions. The question is, how for are you going to 20Y an. COSt There are people no have been pillaged and MR. FOULER: You are raising the question now of three have had to run like Indians, and non you are talking about or four million Germans going to mussie and building things. getting some language that covers some of them to GO some If you kent to talk sbout a voluntary labor system, e voluntary reconstruction, and I would like to say that I think this recruitment whereby the Government pays-- is very mild. You are worried about crimes here and punish- sent for crimes. Well, this sort of thing of working some- 18. DuBOTS: This NEB asked in 8. compulsory way whether where else to retuils something I consider not unhealthy, but three or four million Germans should be required to rebuild healthy. cities in aussis. That certainly is not voluntary. din. BARD: Probably in the Aussian zone of occupation FORER: Tell, for my OND purpose-- they would ute this additional opportunity to take all kinde of people. 30. BARD: You agreed that everybody in 3 non, all there people should be under this category? L.H. COS: The French were in the other day seeing us, and they estimate there are seven million nan years of work a. FORLER: Right. to be done in France just picking up, cleaning up, and clearing up, and what not, and they in other countries are in every Shill: dy not sey--ene you 07780 that there activitier day sakin- what financial facilities 20 have for restoration, should be stopped? how the are roing to ret out. Now, T don't think we have n. strong position in trying to nerrow the amount of work that AR. FULLER: sight. some of these countries night-- EN. BLAD: Thy not say, including other persons bill. FOTLER: In the proposal Te made yesterday we had who may continue the same type of activities se listed above E provision which has been omitted here for which 6 has been Regraded Unclassified MICROFILM BOLL NO. 63 83 64 64 substituted therefore which provided for a--rhich contem- plated en intensive ure of voluntary Terman labor to be paid by the Terman Government. The expense of that labor will and participante in the Resi party or administration. That in to be born by the Cernet poople, but couched with certain upon It take in - great any people, and 7 hope be can conditions that would clearly differentiate It from the type diesent, " drewn In order to arrive et come decision agree without of compulsory Ishor service we are here setting up for this special Tour. : - perfectly villing to open tip If n rest decl of rebuilding needs to be done In France and Terman labor is MAD: That is without changing 3. required for It and it is e desirable economic and social thing to be done. Lot's get to the business of setting up 3. little in the second line. Is that agreeable? MR. CLAYTON: Leave 3 as 1 rend it. le have changed and providing for a voluntary Ishor tervice which will make It attractive and which will make it possible and LEKE It fousible to accomplich the objective you are speaking of 10. BARD: That in ell right. that the French declre In such 1 my that It doesn't violate the principles that Dr. Cronley me stating the other any K. CLAYTON: le pass that question. regarding compulsory labor service. lion, how about 47 28. CLAYTOL: I think it in highly desirable. I 12 sure you will all agree It le highly desirable that ve cen agree upon 11. document here which will neet LT. Crowley's What following conditions should be accepted by all E. LUAIN: 1 don't like the wording following, "The vice and on which we can act without any dissent. 1 believe certies you are raying is that ne should sttempt to parties. get all to agree to that. that the Language muica ve have here now sould cover all present or past offenders In Genuary and that the 2 nuse which has been proposed RE en addition mould nerely bring PR. CLAYTON: That is the wiy it should read, in future offenders. And In all probability the Insurance which no have le sufficiently broad to helps In e very large (Secretary leaver the conference temporarily.) number of persons, because It says, ...or lending collaboration- ists or surnorters of or participents In the Nei party or," Commission's certain request for an attempt to get r prement to the on PM. CLAYSIC: This is, 80 1ar It relates end to forth. And : ve need to have here,se records the suggestion that the longuage be broadened or en addition be principles At stated, made mich 52 to have discussed, any reconcilable difference, I surgest to recommend to the complttee that Le adopt the Like Agreement should be sought. language just as me inve It. It would then read, "2. This government is strongly of the view that other than PR. CLAYYON: That It better. those specified in a below et deserving on punishment should not be called upon to perform congultory labor service out- E. LIMIN: Agreement thould be sought. side Germany. service. ER. CLAYSON: recard to compulsory lebor "3. Compulsory labor service should be required only from TAP criminale and individuals ocfinitely determined by Ph. LIBIT: appropriate process to be members of the Gestopo, the 55, "...along the following lines. leaders of the SA, or leading collehorntors, supporters of, word LR. "individually" BLRD: I would in A. like to suggest leaving out the Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ PAT. OFF. MICROFILM ROLL NO. 65 - 65 - 66 - 66 VR. CLAYTON: "Excent for persons individually tried for specific crimes--" 1 don't see what "individually" adds to it. Let 5 strike it out. "Except for sersons individually tried for specific crimes, and convicted and sentenced to lifetime punishment, the period of compulsory labor service and That T.S.P. the original clause in the drafty should be limited to a definitespen of years. U.S. FOLLER: This has to do with voluntary labor? "b. The standard of living and conditions of employment should conform to humane standards. VR. LUBIL: No, with regard to reporting. "c. Countries using compulsory labor should report sort of audit It, would to to have . committee of the Reparations Coumission - MRD: Fr. Pauley suggested yesterday his idea periodically to the Reparation Commission or Agency on the living and working conditions of such workers and the uses made of their services. Reparations Commission. P.R. PATILRY: Some international comulttee or the Is there any comment? MR. D.N. BELL: 1 think the words, "...of such workers" of some International organization? kike LURN: Does the original draft have e statement WSS left out. MR. CLAYTON: "...of living and working conditions of Inbor group. U.S. FORLEN: But that had to do with the voluntary such workers. MR. LOVETT: That is the same point Mr. McCloy wanted good suggestion there and that you aight be able to Mr. CLAYTON: I think, Fr. Fauley, that you had 8 very to raise that we discussed last time, that we are not-- that is really an adequate discharge of any interest or do agreement that the Reporations Commission, Itself, get could noral obligation we DAY have, so we would not have to reply this work B good deel encler than If you tried to on the U. S. representative sending in reports saying, Il agreement kind of that rome outside organization do it. It is get really "Everything O.K., but having International Red Cross check it. sould be Udr or something of similar should agree to because the Deparations Commission, If they think, obligation of the Reparations Commission, I would KR. CLAYTON: I think-- they would laying com n certain condition which 1 importance, would to zee whether-- DATE the right to check up on every non and think then MR. LOVETT: I think Dr. KcCloy still feels, and I share his views in it, that if we can net an independent audit by the International Red Cross, we would be better that be workers and uses made of their services." Lould com- pulsory the to survey living end working conditions of reserve an. right LUBIN: "The Reparations Commission should off. At least that would be relieving our own responsibility to this country. Fll right? MR. CLATTON: I arree with you. I think we should have it If we can get It. The question, then, is whether we should ask the American representative on the Commission to because you don't, that-- an. if CLAYTON: 1 think you better state it affirmatively strive to net that agreement. that is your view on that, Mr. Fauley? dates, KH. PAULEY: Linke certain observations on pecific Regraded Unclassified RECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM ROLL NO. 67 68 - 67 - - 06 19. to periodically survey the living and ER. LUBIN: If you are going to make the survey, working conditions of compulsory workers end uses made of the individuals will sinke the reports to their individual their services." governments. Take that for granted. the CLAYTIN: T think 10. If you con't GO that--if MR. DESPRES: "The Commission should periodically meke--" you use the other language, when you to, to (et It done, you might not be able to, VR. LIPIR: Yes. MR. DISPRIE: How about sodin to this language, "...and MR. CLAYION: "The Reparations Commission or agency rhall there should be Inspection by en appropriate Allied egency*, periodically survey the living and working conditions of compulsory workers and the usage mede of their services," and KR. LOVETT: You are better off going to What you want 20 forth. Is that agreenble? first than settling on this lesser thing If you have to, SIN. DUBOTS: That in substitution for C. M. CLAYTON: You Lean try to get the Red Cross-- ER. LOVETS: In place of C. MR. LOVET: Try to get either the International Red Cross or the agency 07 Reparations Commission NF an mudit COT: Go heck to C, if you can't net this. agency if you can. If you can't, you can elways take the lesser course. - Should we put in the other alternative? MR. CLAYTON: Ve agreede= COE: I don't think so. VR. LOVEST: If you follow Er. Despres line, you take MN. LOVETT: When you say the uses nade of their the lensor. services, does the Reparations Commission contemplate en- desvoring to define what appropriate ure is to be nade of LR. CLAYTON: What is right. this compulsory labor, in other sords, to the restoration and reconstruction? KR. LOVETT: Doctor Lubin had some language there that seemed to cover it. VR. LUBIN: That question WRE raised yesterday, and ER. LUFIN: "The Reparations Commission shall periodically no decision wes made on it, hut if they here being used In mlt mines or to develop resources that we don't feel survey-- are very essential to the welfare of the world et the given moment, that fact ougst to be cade public. MR. COE: " living and working conditions of compul- sory workers, a nd the uses made of their services." VR. PAULEY: And what about the use of production that ER. CIAYTON: That does it. night enter into the use of labor, manufactural production that sicht engage in world trade in competition with ours? MR. LOVETT: Survey and report to them. MR. 10VETT: Suppose they put then Into labor of build- ER. CLAYTON: survey and report on the living and Ing from machinery, and no forth, and paid them nothing and working conditions-- then sold their poode on that hocis to the outside world? Regraded Unclassified PRECISION MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM ROLL NO. 70 69 - so - - 70 - 13. MARD: Could you limit It to Interie construction pollcy question In the recurring reparations program. and thises not to be exported from their country? IR. CLAYTON: Right. Could you get that language, 10% CLASSER: The thought of the consittee The that or something like that, Enile, in the first paragraph? te would limit 11 to reporations of the damage. MR. DESPRES: I think it might go in the last one, Line COE: Inconder whether ce don't need up above none- because I assume that--does it apply just to compulsory, where near 1,012 comething which zaya no believe that this or voluntary also? labor should be used for reconstruction nne repair of use domage. in. LUBIN: I would put it in number 2. in. LURIT: That should be in number 2. MR. CLAYTON: Both types of service. EN. PATTRY: Don't you went to and - specific clause 10. LUBIN: The first general principle is, we son't that they enouldn't be allowed to nanufacture COOCE that take any reparations in the form of labor; two, we favor would compete in the morld trade month the use of reparations labor only in this kind of work. SR. R: CO. MR. LOVETT: My don't you include-- 112 02: in Paulay, *bot be covered MR. LUBIN: I would put in a new 2. It you sein that confussory lubor be only in reconstruction and repairing of 107 end not In MR. CLAYTON: will you nut that in, Emile? operating productive Pacilitien/ Now, we come to 5, "Apart from persons deserving of K. LOVETT: 10, not In production of 10005 for Inter- punishment as defined above, German labor for reparation national male. should be recruited only on a voluntary basis for work outside Germany." WR. DUROIS: Suppose you wanted to rebulit. MR. FOWLER: Mr. Clayton, 1 have no suggested change, M. FAULEY: I mould 1120 to see it specifically in just a comment that yesterday in the discussions I think it there. was generally agreed that there was & good deal of room there for the constructive development of a proposal that IX. Du9015: Suppose there 1. E fectory partly during would make much nore feasible the use of this voluntary and you went to-- recruitment of labor for reparations. Really, what we would attempt to try and achieve there is to nake the German NR. PAULE : Rebuild, hut not operate. people as a whole pay for the cost of rebuilding and re- pairing and rehabilitating war damage in other countries, SH. CLAYTON: All right, to reconstruct and repair, but and that is, the job of creating a workable and fessible not to operate. You sould '...10 te used only for system that would result in n. substantial use of the so- reconstructing and repairing use damage, not for openting called voluntary labor is & responsibility that falls some- labor." I would think that mould cover it. where between the Allied Control Council and the Reparations Commission. That is going to require & good deal of effort M. ILASSER: You might point out that - have the same problem with recurring reparations, for Instance, coel, if the country rete It free, user it as part of productive process for exports. You really have the name commercial Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM ROLL NO. 71 - 71 - 72 72 and construcrive study on the part of both. For example, it my be quite possible to require the German Government Our concern It reperations, that the tho dollars E to pay wages to workers uno would volunteer to E0 and FORM ay it credited to the Seruans and debited to France. outside of Germany to create certain inducements there which would result In the work being done and the German people VR. COS: 1 agree you shouldn't no too for into that AS n. whole paying for it, end et the enge time, not Involve at this time because of the foreign exchange problem, the undenirable consequences of the une of compulsory later because for the Germans to raise two dollars 6 day in franc in the dimensions and qualities that sometimes are referred exchange presente . lot of problems. to, and we didn't attempt in this paper to fully develop 8 program along those lines which I think might be developed, us. CLAYTON: I shouldn't think you would have to and I just wanted to throw that out to thron some light on raise it in franc exchange, but 1 0.0 think that the Repara- the proposition, that I don't think this short paper by any tione Commission would be interested in tale matter. means exhausts the possibilities of labor reporations here on the voluntary type, end that sometime later on, either MR. LUBIN: le sould like to Lee it done for a number here or in the Allied Control Council, or in conjunction of reasons. with the work of the Reparations Commission, a program of CIAYTON: It night be a very fruitful sort of that rort could be developed which mould have . chance of reparations, out : don't think ne could attempt at all working and accomplishing the desirable economic objectives to-- that kr. Coe has referred to. C all. LOVETT: You can't write 8 program. On our part ne would be -Ind to forward that work in any way we could. we attempted to spell out 5. little bit MR. FORLER: That MIS the conclusion we came to, but of It yesterday, but agreed that in view of the shortage I think you have to keep that in mind. of time TO wouldn't include it. ER. CLAYTON: Row 6--this in E proposal to be included MR. LUBIN: There la another point of view. T think in a new peragraph 2 to cover the point we just previously we mould all agree that in the Allled Control Council, EAC, discussed, "Both compulsory and voluntary labor services, or United Dations they will want to work out . r chene of furnished N.S. reparation should be used only for reconstruction voluntary labor to rehabilitate say part of the worked. That and repair for casage, not for current production operations. doesn't concern the Reporations Commission. All ne want to De sure of, if you do use such = system, it that the For no E° to 6, "Payment for wages and maintenance for accounts are kept so that the Geruant are credited and the both compulsory and voluntary labor utilized for reparation receiving country in debited. The Reperations Commission chell be borne by Germany. The value of the services of Is interested in reparations #: such, and If you are going both types of lebor shall be included es reparation." to use compulsory Inhor :: é fora of reparations, ne want to fix the terms under which it will operate, but if the I thought that names you started labor, either voluntary French Government wanted to nake a desl with Eisenhower or commulsory, that the country where they worked maintained mhereby they will undertake to use a million Gerunns at then. The payment--the remuneration should, of course, be two dollars E day and Eiserhower says that is swell and be made by Cermany, presumably, to the families of these people publianes n. notice in the peper, anybody who wants to 20 to In marks--in Germen currency--but If you require Germany to work in France at two dollars a day would be permitted to maintain thes, that means a considerable export item on the leave the country. part of Termany for maintenance. Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM BOLL NO. 74 74 73 73 . DV, so the net that in credited to Geruany in one dollar Ph. LUBIS: You DAY fine your maintenance cost is equal end t half out of three. to what you paid Last. CLAYTON: But why not just let them credit It MM, CLAYYON: Lell, no, payment at home sould he In rather than make a double entry? I mean, it is the name local currency to the familles, presumbly, or to the thing. credit of the Ishorer. Waintenance means, of course, his food end housing and clothing. 1 would think It would be MR. LUMIN: %a want to net Il my of showing that the paid for. actual burden la going to be horne by the Cermans. MR. LUHIN: Waybe we ought to no heek to the original NR. DESPRES: Now about mitting peragraph 6 and chang- words ve used, "The value of such labor and Its maintenance inc perscraph 7 to, "The not value of services of both types shall be borne by Germany." In other words, Wast you are of lebor showld be included in reparations*? trying to any is that Germany should pay this HILL. 13. CLAYSIS: That is right, MR. PATIFY: In other words, Termany it going to get money to pay the HILL. SR. So, T think It is such Better the other any. The important thing is that the Certuans are soing to IR. BARD: If be in sent out of the country, the femilier be responsible for the maintenance. The rest is bookkeeping. have got to live come may, 10 like the military elletment system they pay internally with local currency and you KK, Do you think the Termene enould take care have no foreign exchange problem. of the saintenance? I don't talnk they should. MR. The other becomes - problem in Certify P. CLAYTON: T don't, either. in the sense that she le debited. For reparations ecoment com up in the emount the have to TRY these people RR. MRD: If they are getting Inhor for notaine, the In wages. least they can do is to house then and take care of tuen properly. bigger. R. CLAYTON: That just Aesne the reparations 6111 gets B. CLAY ON : That is right. I think the point le this, that If you agree on 8. value of . nen's services VR. DESPERS: It means double entry that cancela out. under those circumstances and say, as Lubin mid, that It That is all It more. Le three dollars 6. day, you wouldn't credit Germany with three dollars 6. day If the country where the pan in working YR. LOVETT: Or if theyexport more reperations-- bad to stiend one dollar and a helf of that three to maintain him. That you would credit Germany with would be one dollar MR. LURIN: The Aussions get two dollars worth of labor, end one-half. I think that in pretty clear. and they are debited for that, and the Germane are credited. 13. BUID: That le the idea, but make the country where MR. LURIN: Geruany is credited with that - dollars, they are working take care of them. Otherwise they are and here is what happens: & ESL BATTER tiree dellars n. day; liable to storve to death and 157 the Ceruan's aren't taking that is what we are charging the Germane, you 107. It care of them. It in cur responsibility. conts one delier end = half to feed thes, Consequently the Russians are only getting one dollar and 8. half out of that Regraded Unclassified PRECISION TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ MICROFILM BOLL NO. 75 - 75 1R. LOVETT: Isn't what they are actually telkin - 76 - 76 about to out It in bookkeeping form? If loueste has a credit of ten dollars In reporations, she any take five dollars In plants, three dollers in COODE, and have 0 two dollar of the value of the work would presumenly be up to the telance left against which she can use compulsory labor. recipient Government. They rould also have to ompute the Ten't that what me are talking about? amount of maintenance, and there say be very little net value which nould beadisterbing factor. ER. PAILD+ If the Reparations Commission decides that the man's services are north three dollars a day, then MR. CLAYTON: They wouldn't get any credit. Germany only gate 11. credit of one dollar and one-half, end Russia gets one dollar and one-helf to feed then. MR. BARD: The Reparations Committee would decide on what they should pay these people. NK. LOVETT: The more labor sure uses, the less plant dollar value she can take out. That 1a what Le meant, lan't KA. CLAYTON: You see, harold, it wouldn't be likely it? that there won't be a net value, because certainly ti man's services would be worth something more than just to feed, IP.. CLAYTON: Not nere, I con't think, Rob. what Ee clothe, and house him under those conditions. Vake It worth are trying to say here--rhat ne did is, here is that payment more. And the net value would have to be paid by the Germans for weges end meintenance for both compulsory and voluntary and would be E credit to then on reparations, and . debit to labor utilized for reparations shell be borne by Geruany. the country receiving services, and it doem t nake very That is what we say, but 1 don't think that in what no much difference whether you do it that way or credit Germany mean. with three dollars, any for that nan's services and charge Min with one dollar and B. half for his mesintemance. It le MR. LOVETT: You neen the net value of the labor shell just E little more bookkeeping. be charged against her In the reperations ecount. PAXO: One thing I :: worried about is where the VR. CLAYTON: Charged to the country receiving the poor fellow is [oing to et the spending money for cigarettes, labor, the net. and so forth. Le has vot to have something in his own pocket. KH. GLASSER: I Just ment to point out hr. Hard's IT. PAULEY: They cive the Terman prisoners here--what point with reference to unges and maintenance, This in It, fifteen cents . day? provision seys, "rayment for unges and maintenance." I don't think that absolver the recipient country from nain- VR. LUMIN: Eighty cents. taining these workers and giving them food and chelter. This merely mys, "lager and maintenance nould be borne by (Secretary re-enters the conference.) Germany. ER. DESPRES: The whole offer has to be attractive MR. LURIL: "The net value of the services of bott types enough to cake him sign up. of labor shall be included as reperations and be borne by Germany. Wouldn't that cover it? FR. MARD: \ould Germany have to send pocket money to Runsie or advance then twenty-five cents e day? That will VR. GLASSER: The net value, I suppose, less any amount all coue out. the French or Aussiana are being paid. You run into the mituation where there may not be . net value. The computation MR. CLAYTON: T think He will have to leave that. MR. Does that mean te omit six? Regraded Unclassified TRADE MARK MICROSTAT/ PAR, OFF. MICROFILM ROLL NO. 78 77 78 - - 77 - MR. CLAYTON: That is an excellent suggestion. How about inviting the Justice to meet with us next CLAYTON: Onit o. Then 7 rende, "The net time? DO you wish to do so? value of services of both types of labor shall be included es reparations." B.M.JR: Let his read it in advance. VR. LOVETT: And horne by Germany. MR. CLAYTOR: And let him rend It in novence. would IR. DIBOIS: I don't think you need that. that be your Idea, BobY ER. LUBIN: When you ssy for reparations, it means MR. LOVETT: The ourst to protect our Commission going that. over under one cet of instructions, wheress the not Crimes Completee have e sholly different approach. I don't know 10% CLAY TON : It means Germany, of course. whether they have even considered It or not. We have completed it, Fr. Secretary: se are finished. VR. CLAYTO: Is it agreeable to the Committee tast & copy of this redrafted document he submitted to Justice Nom, I would suggest that It be remritten and they To Jackson with the explanation that before finally adopting would take another look et it, but I think It in important-- It ve thought In view of his recent appointment he should that these documents are 10 Important that ne should have have . look et it. them both redrafted and then we could eit down here and no over then one more time, ITE. LURTH: Ble interest would be In the labor clause only, wouldn't It? KR. DUBOIS: Can't you just stick It Into the other document? 10. LUMIT: That Le all we mould have to rend nin. CLAYTON: If ke are oil In agreement on it, why-- R.V.J.: Send It to hin and sek if he has any comment, ACC then he cen send It back. FOLLER: I think it would be better. L. HAND: Somebody could taxe It to uis and explain MR. CLAYSON: If there is no objection, Le will do 11. It aight ESTE trouble. that. T wonder If Cr. Pauley would be milling. MR. DuBOIS: I suggest you make it paragraph 4. It would make it much easier. It is an important paragraph in. HALLEY: I would be very glad to present It to bim, and should follow paragraph 3 of our main document. rir. MR. DESPRES: All right. MR. CLAYTOE: That mould he fine 11 you noula do it, er. Fauley, and It has been suggested that no only cubalt MR. CLAYTON: Shall we take up the Joint Chief of to his the part relating to the labor. Do you agree on that? Staff communication? 524. PAULTY: Yes, I think that in all he le concerned MR. LOVEYT: Before you leave that, Will, with the with, though I don't think there in any objection to showing appointment of Justice Jackson perhaps we ought to have his the entire dogument if be vante to see it. some way of tying in with him on these war crimes and what not, to make sure that we are not taking a wholly different track from what the country is giving Mr. Pauley's Commission instructions on -- Regraded Unclassified MICROSTAT PAR. MICROFILM ROLL NO. 79 60 - 79 - BU MR. CLAYTON: I wouldn't have any. Then when the Secretary has redrafted the document they will furnish want send It to JCS. MR. to CLAYTON: You mid atthe estie time you would you a copy of it; and if you will call on Justice Jackson and discuss it with him, that would be fine. H.M.JR: Couldn't we clean this up tomorrow morning? agreement. will that If T.e can (et the working counittee say. try III. to BILLORING: de That is something I ron't le MR. CLAYTON: well -- 23. CLAYTON: That mould be the desirable thing to do. MR. FOWLER: wouldn't it be possible to iron out informally this point about the Joint Chiefs clause so our that Joint Chiefs le the of Combined Staff. Chiefe of Staff meeting, in the and 11. Friuay LOTTER: You have one difficulty there Fonse that at our next meeting we can clean up all of the current business? It informally. mes agreed scross the board, working no could committee clear and she everybody : If ke had tin agreement in the papers Informally, D. think They work on scet MR. CLAYTON: Yes, that is right, Joc. i think that is right. "C will get to that in Just 8. minute. i would think possibly we better do it Saturday morning, ar. Secretary. H.M.JR: I won't be here. N. CLAYTER Perhaps this afternoon, MR. CLAYTON: Could we do it tomorrow afternoon? GEL. HILLUKING: I mould try. H.M.JR: Tomorrow will be Cabinet, supposedly. nornin, time, at nine o'clock? o'clock, la that agreeable? le morning? <111 meet What tomorrow RR. nine CLAYTOR: Suppose we meet in the MR. LOVETT: I can't do it tomorrow afternoon. H.M.JR: Could you do it tomorrow morning? this touch consiun] you, ontion General Hilloring, on this *ill et In In with the meantime, the working committee MR. LOVETT: I think I am all right tomorrow morning, this afternoon agree upon or the language and try to subjt it They will try to to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. matter here of but I don't know whether we could get the Joint Chiefs of Staff by then. a proposal. tonight ENd come In tomorrow morning to with then H.M.JR: well, General Hilldring and 1 had a little conference in the corner, and he said he thought that if this working committee met with the representatives of the star generals 93. WILLDRING: and admirels, That is but sufully I will fost do ay action dannedest. for ay five- Joint Chiefs of Staff, they could work it out this afternoon. with Are T.e thin? to 2° beek over the whole thing, or touorrow? only deal 1% joint LOYST: That remains to be done for GEN. HILLDRING: I thought we could get this working committee and somebody from JCS and they could produce one. That would have to be sent to this committee and JCS at the same time but if they will agree--and I think they can get to to meet do this suppose the ment the whole going 2. it, CLATTON: I don't Let's cover this non, how we are an agreement that is the end of it. afternoon on the communication of working the Joint group Regraded Unclassified PRECISION MARK MICROSTAT MICROFILM ROLL NO. 82 81 - 82 - 81 - ER. CLAYTON: I don't know of anything else that Chiefs of Staff. That was your iden on that, General? renains to be done on it. Ky only point in that numerous changes are going to be unde in it. It is coing to be re- D. HILLDRING: If be could net the working part of drafted, and T think that it in very important that all of this committee and the working part of the JCE, I think no us eit here tomorrow morning and read it over again right cen nettle it. from the beginning to the end and say whether Le agree or not. Do you agree with that? MR. DESPRES: I believe that to for at this committee 1: to. concerned THE all know what the civilism agencies would scree D. LOVETT: Sure. R.K.JR: I think you wouldn't have had this trouble MR. ADLER: I wonder If B mole committee is needed with the Joint Chiefs of Steff if se had had Il chance to this afternoon, or If It mouldn't be adequate to have one re-read it. I think it is very important to telk about representative. the future of Germany. KR. FOLLER: I would suggest that " for no ne are 13. CIAYTON: the will neet tomorrow morning et nine concerned, Kr. Despres, or any other party designated o'clock. would be estisfactory as for en we are concerned. 24. CLAYTON: T.e have All agreed, haven't ve, on It so far 12 the civilien agencies are concerned on this committee " to what the language should be? MR. FOULER: 1.e haven't discussed the specific longuage in the existing draft. but I think the all agree es to the point that is to be changed H.H.JR: I would like to have n. Treasury representative present. HR. CLAYTER: I think we ought to nave one representative from each agency, just have the full working roup meet with General Hilldring tals afternoon or soon se possible after lunch. Now, Bob, you asked the question 62 to whether at our meeting tomorrow we were going to consider merely this suggested change in the document that we approved last Friday or if we would go over the reperations question again. MR. LOVETT: Yes, I vas wondering whether ve had disposed that remained to be done on it. of the reparations paper or whether there was something else Regraded Unclassified CERTIFICATE OF AUTHENTICITY OPERATOR: ROLL NO. 5 DATE: 1/38/19 TIME START: 125 TIME FINISH: DEPT.: SPECIAL FEATURE OF COPY: peole B cant Dear from pall # 4. Diary cham Bank # by 8394/3 29/3 to 20-24 344 end 1945 Diary Bork 841 apr apr 26.27 25 945 1945 #842 am 2829 30 1942 (from to Under tufg 82 # 844 Bas 3-5 1945 # 843 They thrn May 2 140 = Cont. in mustpal # 6 (Photostat copie poor fedeing) I hereby certify as follows L. I an . microfilm operator employed by MICROPILM CORPORATION. 2. I made accurate and complete repreductions of the records as submitted by for microliming - the date or dates above medical. (Company Name and Address) 3. The Limed above is the nill number and de records which at contains. 4. That al any pictures have . month punched through the eige of the frame, they have been makes, and such mains will appear ansched to the beginning of chie mill, and will be proceded by il corrificate Certificate of Authenicity (Reaker); if any pimm have . hole punched through the lower beh hand comer of the frame, the picture is a deplicate and should be disregarded. 3. The if shore - any significant funures of the records microlimed on this nll, they will be described in my handwrising in the above space labelled: Special Facure. 6. The said microbiliming - performed purrease - and - conformance with Contract Sendement An of 1944, Secs. 4. (b) and 19 (a) theme and according - Regulation 11, Secs. 8013.1 - 8015.9 indoine, made by the Dirgipor of Contract Settlement or any amend- - or additional regulations sheren. of Operator