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1563252
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Nixon, Richard - Pardon: House Subcommittee Hearing - Q & A Briefing Sheets (with Ford annotations)
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1563252
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Nixon, Richard - Pardon: House Subcommittee Hearing - Q & A Briefing Sheets (with Ford annotations)
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John O. Marsh Files (Ford Administration)
John Marsh's General Subject Files
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Nixon, Richard M. (Richard Milhous), 1913-1994
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1974-10-31
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1974
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The original documents are located in Box 122, folder "Nixon, Richard - Pardon: House
Subcommittee Hearing - Q & A Briefing Sheets (with Ford annotations)" of the John
Marsh Files at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library.
Copyright Notice
The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) governs the making of
photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. Gerald R. Ford donated to the United
States of America his copyrights in all of his unpublished writings in National Archives collections.
Works prepared by U.S. Government employees as part of their official duties are in the public
domain. The copyrights to materials written by other individuals or organizations are presumed to
remain with them. If you think any of the information displayed in the PDF is subject to a valid
copyright claim, please contact the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library.
Digitized from Box 122 of The John Marsh Files at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
Mr. President. In light of your OW n statement about your
response to the press on your trip to Mississippi and New
Orleans after you had been advised of the damaging new
evidence in the tapes that President Nixon was still innocent,
didn't you mislead the press.
Ans.
You will note in my statement my reasons for responding as I
did in reference to President Nixon's situation. However, let
me make several points:
1. I had not been given the precise details of what this new
evidence was; rather, I had been given a general assess-
ment that it was highly damaging and, in the opinion of the
attorneys, would probably cause an impeachment conviction in the
Senate.
2. At that time, if there was going to be an impeachment trial,
only the Senate in that trial could establish a definition of
what was an impeachable offense. Therefore, it was up to
the Senate and not up to me to make that definition.
3.
Let me repeat what I said in my statement, and that is, I
did not feel that as Vice President I should make statements
in reference to the President's situation which might be
interpreted that I was urging his resignation because that,
in my opinion, is not proper, nor, in any event, should such a
recommendation be made by me in a public forum such as a
press conference.
RALD G R. FORD JBRARI
Ques.
The resolution request and the committee chairman have asked
for the presentation of documents, tapes, and other data.
Why didn't you produce these.
Ans.
First, there are very few such items. Those which do exist are
internal documents, some of which are protected by an attorney-
client relationship. As President, I feel I have a duty to protect
the office of the Presidency for my own and for succeeding
administrations.
As you are aware, my appearance here is voluntary in an effort
to provide the information to answer the questions which you
have asked. I am of the view that my personal appearance
is sufficent for the purposes of the resolution and therefore
I have not provided any other data you mentioned.
FORD LIBRAR & RALD
30
Ques.
In light of the full and frank disclosures you have made today, what
is your explanation of the response you first gave to the Committee
which did not reply directly to the questions which were asked.
Ans.
My first reaction when I saw the questions was whether to respond
by appearing before the Committee. However, since that was
unprecedented it was felt best to try and respond in a general way,
insofar as my public statements had dwelled in some measure with
most of the questions. Any attempt to try and respond in writing to
each question was found not to be adequate unless an opportunity was
given to explain the questions; therefore, I decided that the best
approach, notwithstanding precedent, was to come before the
Committee.
I would also like to point out that a major consideration beforeany respon-
ses were given directly to the questions either in writing or orally
was the impact on the Watergate trial prior to the jury being
sequestered. The public statements which I sent to the Committee
with the early responses had stood the test of public exposure
insofar as the Watergate trial was concerned.
FORD & LIBRARY RALO
30
Ques. 1
From the second day of August until the 28th day of August
when you made the decision to grant President Nixon a pardon,
what conversations, if any, did you have on this subject with
President Nixon, General Haig, or any other members of
President Nixon's staff or with his former staff.
Ans.
I had no conversations or discussions with any of the above
persons except, however, I did advise General Haig of my
decision to grant a pardon at the time I so advised other members
of my staff that I was considering the same.
At about the same
time I mentioned the fact to Secretary Kissinger, but I did not
seek his advice.
FORD H BRAR RALO
30
2
Ques. 2 In light of the conversations that you had on August 1 and August 2 with
representatives of President Nixonls staff concerning new material
that appeared on the tapes, how do you account for your remarks at
press conferences in Mississippi and Louisiana on that weekend, the
third, fourth and fifth of August, in which you indicated you did not
feel that the President was guilty of an impeachable offense and that
you had not had a meeting out of the ordinary with General Haig, or
that there was no new evidence changing your opinion.
Ans.
It should be recalled that this time I had been made aware
of
new evidence that would be
damaging,
that
it
; it had not been dis-
closed to me precisely what this information was.
,
I would point
out that the press inquiries in reference to General Haig's meeting
were actually directed to the meeting that he had held with me in the
morning and which had been reported on the wire service and was a
matter of general knowledge. The extraordinary nature of the conver-
sation in reference to my assuming the presidency did not occur in
that conversation, but occurred in the conversation the latter part
of the afternoon. Finally, it should be noted that had I on this weekend
made a significant departure from the position thatI had previously
maintained it would have attracted wide attention and would have had
the effect of making it appear I was endeavoring to push President
Nixon from office.
GERALD RALD 33 R. FORD BRAR
3
Ques. 3
What did James St. Clair tell you.
Ans.
Mr. St. Clair outlined to me the information which I have
previoi sly stated in my opening remarks. He did not disclose
to me the precise details of the new evidence; however, he did
give me his assessment of what that evidence would mean in the
forthcoming impeachment. The main purpose of his conversation
was not to discuss any questions involving pardon; in fact, he
indicated this was not an area in which he had devoted any real
attention, but that his own knowledge on the subject was that which
he had arrived at indirectly from others with whom he had associated.
That was in response to my question tohim as to what is the President's
authority on pardoning.
FORD & LIBRARY OERALD RALD 30
4
Ques. 4
What is your interpretation of your authority to pardon.
Ans.
My information on this stems from my own reading of the
Constitution and the power that is vested in the President under
the Constitution. It is also my understanding that the United
States Constitution differs from many state constitutions in that
it gives the authority to grant a pardon prior to indictment. This
follows
particular provision very closely the English rule and is
the common law rule. In fact, during our Constitutional Convention
an amendment was sought to limit the President's pardon power by
making it post-conviction only, but such an amendment was defeated
Convention
in the
Constitution.
In order to be certain as to what my powers
were in granting the pardon, I had my general counsel carefully
examine the Constitution and case law, which he did, and he
advised me that there was no question but that I did have the
authority to grant the pardon of President Nixon prior to any
indictment.
FORD H LIBRARY DERALD RALO 30
5
Ques. 5
Why did you pardon President Nixon at this time.
Ans.
The question is - when is the best time to have had the pardon.
You could ask yourself that question and the reason I selected
the time I did is more understandable. If I were to have waited until
the Watergate trials had started I would have had to defer either
until the trials had concluded and once the trial had been concluded
we would havehad to wait until an indictment. To pardon during
the indictment stage or the trial stage or the post-trial stage --
assuming there was conviction -- we would have dragged this matter
on and on which, in my opinion, is not in the best interest of our
country. During the time I was President prior to the pardon I
learned that the disposition of President Nixon's matter was one
that was constantly
before me. To have the former President
of the United States facing indictment and the constant debate in
is
public
a divisive thing which
or
continue to stir up an issue that I feel should be laid to rest.
The longer I delayed was simply making it more difficult.
FORD A LIBRARY RALD
&
6
Ques. 7
It has been mentioned that you did not want to allow public
examination of the tapes because your own name might be involved.
Ans.
I suspect that my name as well as the names of many other members
of Congress are mentioned in the tapes, but I can assure you that
Privacy
it is not mentioned in connection with any criminal activity and I
conth
have no fear of an examination of the tapes in that regard.
Ques. 8 Did you ever urge the President personally or through members
of his staff to resign.
Ans.
I felt it inappropriate for the Vice President of the United States
to make such a recommendation either to the President, to
members of his staff, or to other people. The Vice President
is a party in interest and recommendations of this type are suspect;
consequently, I felt that if I could not say something in support of
President Nixon's remaining in office it would be best for me to
say nothing.
FORD & LIBRARY RALD 30
7
Ques. 9 You have indicated in your opening statement that you talked to
several people after you talked to General Haig. To whom did
you talk.
Ans.
First let me say that I did not speak to a nyone who was a member
of President Nixon's staff after my meeting with General Haig
with the exception of Mr. St. Clair, who I have already mentioned.
Consequently, I do not feel that I should disclose the names or the
nature of the advice that I get from the people with whom I consulte
in order to arrive at a decision. I would say, however, their
views reinforced my own judgment as to what I should do in the matter.
Ques. 10 What do these people with whom you discuss matters tell you.
?
I will have to give you the same answer I gave to the previous
question. I do not feel that it is incumbent upon me to disclose
the advice or information that they conveyed to me except to
emphasize that their views reinforced the decision I
made
and would convey to General Haig later that afternoon.
RALD 3 A. FORD VBRARI
8
Ques. 11 Why did you delay twenty four hours in getting back to
General Haig.
Ans.
First, I do not recall that there was any time limit set for me to
me
get back to General Haig, or that he necessarily was expecting to
get back to him. I felt that after considering the matter I should
get in touch with him in order that there be no mistaken impression
that I would give consideration to the matter which was mentioned
and thereby President Nixon would rely on something that was not
factual in reaching decision. I think my opening statement
indicates that when this matter was first discussed with me it
was a broad general subject relating to many areas and that I
was quite taken back by the nature of the conversation, speaking
in a general way. I explained that I needed time to think, that I
needed to talk to my wife, and as a result of this, during the
following day, I reflected on many of the things that General Haig
had spoken to me about, not just this particular question involving
pardon, and having reflected on them I concluded that I should advise
him of my position in order that there be no mistake on their part
as to what I might do.
No make
One Muliple-
FORD & LIBRARY RALE
of
9
Ques. 12 Did it ever occur to you that General Haig's conversation with
reference to pardon might be considered by some to be in the
nature of soliciting a bribe.
Ans.
Let me say that I did not consider it to be either in the form of
another andrew
a bribe or solicitation of a bribe. It was not presented as a
quid pro quo. It was brought up simply as one possible conside-
ration among a host of things in a very fluid and uncertain
asked no
situation It was not presented that in fact the President would
made
resign if I would pardon him and that therefore I should agree to
any súch terms.
to ml
Ques. 13 Have you ever referred this matter to the Attorney General for
his consideration to see whether there is possible violation of
law in suggesting pardon
on August 1.
Nota
Option
Ans.
I havenot. I do not feel thatto be a proper interpretation of what
occurred and I did not construe this to be anything that related
No
to criminal activity on the part of General Haig. I am sure
there was no such intent on his part. In fact, I think he was
really acting at the suggestion of others in discussing the matter
with me generally.
FORD de LIBRARY RALE
30
10
Ques. 14 Why did you not reprimand General Haig for approaching
military you
on this rather than reward him by appointing him to a
post such as Commander of the NATO Forces.
by
Ans.
As I explained, I did not feel that General Haig had acted improperly;
on the contrary, I feel he had evidenced a deep concern for the best
interest of the country in presenting to me all of the background
information as well as options. I gather there were those around
the President who were frantically searching for any way to re-
solve this situation and it was in that spirit that General Haig
approached me. He is an outstanding officer with a fine back-
ground, particularly in the field of international affairs. I think
that based on his experience, his qualifications and his ability,
he can perform in that post and was the natural selection to be the
NATO Commander.
Ques. 15 Did General Haig leave any papers or documents with you of his At
August 1 conversation.
Ans.
Let me say that I do not believe that it would be appropriate for me
to disclose or produce for the record any documents or other papers
which General Haig might have left. He did not leave any document,
formal papers or other writings of that type. He did leave with me two
handwritten notes taken from a yellow pad which was a very brief
explanation of the power of pardon, as well as the type of language
that would be drafted for a pardon.
FORD A LIBRARY RALD BRAR 30
11
Ques. 16 Describe the documents.
Papers but Pre
Ans.
I believe that I have described them above. They were rough
drafts in hand writing and did not appear to be anything that had
to be signed but rather were explanatory of a pardon.
Ques. 17 Why did he leave these documents with you.
Ans.
I believe that he left them in order to show me that I did have
certain pardon authority as President. Therefore, they were notes
which I should study.
Ques. 18 Did you become aware at this time of your pardon power, particularly
before indictment, so that it did not become necessary to check on
the same as you had previously indicated in your last news conference.
Ans.
On the contrary, I gave little study or consideration to the papers
which General Haig left. The legal authority that was cited on
one of these was a very short summary which did not indicate
a great deal of work or research. I did not feel it was sufficient
authority on which I could rely. Quite frankly, I dismissed it from
my mind and forgot it at the time that I decided to pardon President
Nixon the latter part of August. The sheet of paper on authority
did not mean that much to me because I did not pursue the pardon
question at the time on August 1 or August 2 following General
Haig's conversation.
RALD R. FORD JBRARY
12
Ques. 19 What assurance do you have that the other tapes belonging to
President Nixon do not contain evidence of criminal acts. I
am referring to any of the tapes, not just the Watergate tapes.
Ans.
I have not listened to the tapes and therefore cannot conclusively
ols
say that they do not; however, it is my understanding that those
tapes which were associated with the Watergate incident and
fight
related incidents were pretty well identified. Indo not believe
there would be any new surprises as those suggested in the
question in those tapes.
Ques. 20
In your appearance before the Senate Rules Committee you
indicated response to a question on whether you would
pardon the President, if you became President, that the
public would never stand for it. How do you justify your
recent pardon with that statement.
RALO OF R. FORD ARART
Ans.
As I stated in my news conference, the question presented to
me during confirmation, related to something that might or
might not occur. When I found myself actually confronted with
the situation, I found that the factors that impacted on me were
substantially different from those simply sitting in a hearing
room responding to a question that was hypothetical.
However, as I pointed out, during that hearing, even though I
made the response I did, I also added that this was a matter I
would have to study. That is precisely what occurred. I found
13
myself facing an actual situation and after study I found
that, in my opinion, the decision I should make was the one
that I did make.
Ques. 21 In light of your pardon of President Nixon, shouldn't you
consider pardoning the other Watergate defendants.
Ans.
No, for these cases are substantially different.
A trial, and possible conviction and imprisonment of a former
President of the United States, would create a national spectacle
lasting from one to one and a half years which would not be in
such
the best interest of our country. I do not expect A result would
occur from the trial of the present Watergate defendants.
believe
Ques .22
Does the pardon of President Nixon make it more difficult
to
get a conviction in the present Watergate trials.
2
Ans.
I do not perceive that this will cause any problem insofar as
the prosecution is concerned.
RALD 1mg R. FORD (BRAR
Ques. 23 As President, you are charged with seeing that the laws are
faithfully executed. How do you justify the pardon with that duty.
Ans.
The pardon does not conflict with that duty. The power of pardon
exists in all criminal cases and is used from time to time not only
by Presidents, but also by Governors. The power of pardon is
used by the Chief Executive when he feels that it is in the best
14
interest of the country. or that an individual charged with a
crime be relieved of paying the penalty of that crime.
Ques. 24 Looking back, don't you believe it would have been better to
let the judicial process work its usual way and at least have
waited until the public could be apprised of what the pending
charges were through either Grand Jury action before
pardoning.
Ans.
When was the best time to grant a pardon. I felt that from
the standpoint of the best interest of the country, it would be
better to do this sooner rather than later. Information I had
indicated it would be a considerable period of time, stretching
into months, before there could be a Grand Jury report and
that in the meantime concern over a possible trial of a former
President would not work to our advantage, but would rather
continue to divide us and work to our disadvantage.
FORD & LIBRAR RALD
13
15
Ques. 25
As to the wounds being healed, hasn't the pardon reopened
them.
Ans.
Certainly the continuing debate about the pardon is, in my
opinion, not helpful. However, I believe that the debate ,
as compared with the failure to have issued a pardon and
what would be happening to President Nixon at this time
are vastly different things. If the pardon had not been
issued I believe there would be ar rising crescendo of
national debate on the former President's case which I
think could only be avoided by issuing the pardon when I
did. I think in time these wounds which I am talking about
FALLO & R. FORD
will be healed and the healing will occur more quickly
because of the pardon, even though it has been controversial.
Ques. 26 Isn't it fair to say that although you rejected the proposal on
August 2, the fact that you granted the pardon within a month
of becoming a President there is some connection between the
two events.
Ans.
Absolutely not. There's no connection or relationship between
my decision the latter part of August to issue the pardon and the
conversation which occurred on August 1. There was no offer or
promise to me nor from me tothem. I did not seek to induce the
resignation by any promise and I was not offered the office of the
Presidency based on anything I would be expected to do.
16
In fact, when I reached my own decision on this question the latter
part of August,
I did not even recall the previous conversation
must
Ques. 27
Why didn't you tell the people before today of the discussion that
had occurred about a pardon prior to your becoming President.
Ans.
I did not do so because it never occurred to me thatthis discussion
was of that serious consequence, particularly the manner in which
it was presented one of a series of things that were being
had
considered or discussed in the White House. Also, as I have
clearly indicated that I would not participate in any arrangement
of this kind. If I had entered into such an arrangement I think
a disclosure would have been necessary. However, I did not
and the press of other duties as I assumed the Presidency the
first four weeks in August caused me to dismiss this frommy
mind and I could see no reason to treat it with the significance
that the question presumes, particularly since I had rejected it.
On new tape
why not pardon all the Watergate defendants.
Ans.
This is not the way to get Watergate behind us. The cases are
quite different. The facts that relate to the former President
are substantially different from those of the other defendants.
FORD H OF LIBRARY RALE
17
Ques. 28 Did General Haig see you on his own, or was he acting at the
direction of President Nixon.
Ans.
I am of the view that President Nixon was aware that General
Haig was meeting with me and the purpose of the meeting. I
do not know whether President Nixon was aware of all the
various options concerning what his staff members felt he
should do in reference to impeachment and resignation. I
believe he was aware of the questions involving pardon because
he subsequently reached his own decision that any resignation
he should make would be unconditional.
Ques. 29 Is the Jaworski resignation related to the pardon of President
Nixon in protest over his not being abde to prosecute him.
Ans.
No. It is not. Mr. Jaworski has clearly stated his reasons for
resignation and he addressed this particular subject and his
answer speaks for itself.
FORD & BRARY RALO
30
18
Ques. 30. Did Jaworski want President Nixon pardoned.
Ans.
My general counsel is the individual who talked with Mr.
Jaworski and it is my understanding that Mr. Jaworski did
not object to the action that was taken in reference to President
Nixon's pardon. On the contrary, he had concurred in that
decision.
RALD ow R. FORD JBRART
Ques. 31 Isn't the pardon a bad example and that is one that is likely to
do harm to the judicial system.
Ans.
I do not think SO. The power of pardon in the Chief Executive
has existed in the judicial system for centuries without damaging
it and I do not believe that will be the result in the present case.
Ques. 32 What about equal justice under the law, doesn't this indicate that
Mr. Nixon is above the law.
Ans.
If you will look at my pardon statement you will see that the reason
for granting the pardon did not relate to what was in the best interest
of Richard Nixon, but rather what is in the best interest of our nation.
This is the foundation of all pardon law, taking into recognition that
there are several instances when the Chief Executive should have
this power from the standpoint of relieving the individual fromthe
penalties of his individual act. This is not a question of being above
the law; it is a question of operating within the law, which is clearly
in the law of pardon.
19
Ques. 33 If during your term you should become engaged in criminal
activity do you feel your successor should pardon you.
Ans.
I think my successor should consider the case on its merits
and separate facts and do what he thinks is in the best interest
of the country.
Ques. 34 Have your acts set a precedent for the treatment of former
Presidents by future Presidents.
instances
Ans.
Quite frankly, I do not believe that we will see many precedents
of a President becoming involved in criminal activities
a
have in the past. Therefore, I don't think I have set any
real precedent. How past presidents are treated in the future
will be a decision that will have to be made by Presidents at
the time, based on the facts before them.
Ques. 35 What is the effect of your act on President Nixon's tax liabilities,
particularly tax penalties and interest charges that other delinquent
tax payers must pay.
Ans.
? Get ANSWER.
FORD is BRAR RALE
30
20
Ques. 36 You say time will prove you right. How long do you think that
will take.
Ans.
Actually, I think we already are seeing the effects of time as
we move away from this particular event. I hope my appearance
here will be helpful in laying to rest this issue.
Ques. 37 Why didn't you consult with Congressional leaders before granting
a pardon, at least seek advice of your chief law enforcement
officer, the Attorney General.
Ans.
Under the Constitution, the power of pardon is vested exclusively
in the President of the United States; it is a non-delegable power.
I am the only one who could make a decision on it. The fact that
I was the President pardoning a former President made it more
incumbent upon me that I limit the advice and counselthat I have
on this.
Ques. 38 Did President Nixon's acceptance of the pardon indicate guilt.
Ans.
Because I do not want to prejudice any possible rights the former
President may have, I do not believe that I should answer that
question.
RALD to A. FORD YBRAR
21
Ques. 39 Is it fair to fully pardon Nixon and then still expect an
unconditional amnesty for draft evaders and deserters.
Ans.
These are different cases. The power of pardon relates to
a question of precedent. The precedent of pardoning a former
President for of a possible criminal act is substantially different
from the precedent that is set by unconditionally giving amnesty
to people who evade the draft or desert the military service.
The precedent there, against the performance of duty or
military service to your country would seriously undermine
our defense establishment, whereas the number of times that
a question of pardoning a former President would be extremely
limited insofar as precedent is concerned.
Ques. 40 Don't you feel the American people are entitled to know the
contents of all the Nixon tapes, and other documents.
Ans.
If these were my own personal papers
(ran off tape) + this
lumever these have
caused deseased of
such
documents
I would
FORD & LIBRAR RALE
143
22
Ques. 41 What is your opinion of recent legislation that would place the
Nixon tapes and documents in the public domain.
Ans.
I don't know how I would answer that; I would have to look up
the recent legislation.
Ques. 42 President Nixon is said to have offered to return the parton.
Why did he do this, and what was your attitude.
Ans.
This is a conversation that occurred several weeks after the pardon.
&
The manner in which the President referred to this I did not
Reword
interpret to be in a serious vein and I responded in kind.
first
any
being
Ques. 43 What part did the President's health play in the pardon.
of
Ans.
I believe the question is answered in the response I have given in
;
however, I am of the view that the failure to have given the pardon
would have impacted adversely on his health and I am still of that view.
Ques. 44 Were you ever approached by members of his family at any time in
reference to a pardon, either before you became President or after.
Ans.
No. I was not. I had a chance to talk with the President's family on
several occasions but this was not a subject that was discussed.
FORD & LIBRARY RALD
30
23
Ques. 45 In your press conference you made some reference to the fact
that you would consider a pardon for President Nixon when the
matter came before you. Didn't this imply some type of judicial
or administrative procedure, and why did you ignore such procedure
in moving in a unilateral way to grant the pardon.
Ans.
I did not mean to imply that I expected this to run the full judicial
course before before I would consider it. At the time, there was
some question in my mind as to what my pardon authority was,
particularly as to pre-indictment power. When it was clearly
established that I did have such power, I decided to move
expeditiously with granting the pardon.
Ques. 46 Isn't your statement of lack of knowledge of pre-indictment authority
to pardon wrong in light of your conversation with A1 Haig on
August 1 and with Jim St. Clair on August 2.
Ans.
No it is not. In both discussions with them I did not receive clear
answers in an authoritative way as to what powers I might have.
At least, not to the extent that I did not want to carefully check it
further. In fact, Al Haig is not a lawyer and his knowledge was
based on what someone had told him. Jim St. Clair took himself
out of the field by saying this was not an area of his particular
interest and his knowledge likewise was based on an understanding
of what others had told him.
FORD & BRAR RALD 30
24
Ques. 47 General Haig, or Mr. Buzhardt, is reported to have told
someone you were given a handwritten memo setting out
your pardon authority. Didn't this give you adequate infor-
mation as to what your authority was.
Ans.
No, it did not. This was not a work product that indicated any
substantial research or study and it was not represented to
be that. It was a short, sketchy summary of the law. I did
not give it thorough consideration because I did not follow
through on the possible option with which it was associated.
I did not read and study it with that much attention and even
if I had, I did not think it was adequate enough to base a
decision on of the type that I did make in reference to a former
President. It was not a formal legal document or grief, and,
consequently, it would not have been prudent to rely on it without
further investigation.
FORD & LIBRARY RALD
30