Ask the Scholar
Document scope · 1 page
Scholar
Ask about this object, its catalog metadata, its source description, or the page inventory.
For page-specific OCR and visual context, open one of the page chats.
Scholar Source Context
Document identity
localId
1553119
label
June 12, 1975 - Ford, Schlesinger
core
doc
dtoType
document
citationUrl
pageCount
1
Source metadata
id
1553119
sourceUrl
contentType
document
title
June 12, 1975 - Ford, Schlesinger
citationUrl
collections
Memoranda of Conversations (Nixon and Ford Administrations)
Ford Administration Memoranda of Conversations
subjects
Governmental investigations
Intelligence
National security
Nuclear weapons
Surveillance
imageCount
1
hasImages
yes
source
import
hasTranscription
no
Source extras
naId
1553119
coverageEndDate
day
12
logicalDate
1975-06-12
month
6
year
1975
coverageStartDate
day
12
logicalDate
1975-06-12
month
6
year
1975
levelOfDescription
fileUnit
recordType
description
ocrSource
nara-archive
Single page context
seq
1
pageIndex
0
type
document
mediaId
ad64438a3723b0c2
ocrText
File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION
Presidential Libraries Withdrawal Sheet
WITHDRAWAL ID 018002
REASON FOR WITHDRAWAL
National security restriction
TYPE OF MATERIAL
Memorandum of Conversation
TITLE
Ford, Schlesinger
CREATION DATE
06/12/1975
VOLUME
5 pages
COLLECTION/SERIES/FOLDER ID
031400552
COLLECTION TITLE
National Security Adviser. Memoranda of
Conversations
BOX NUMBER
12
FOLDER TITLE
June 12, 1975 - Ford, Schlesinger
DATE WITHDRAWN
05/28/2004
WITHDRAWING ARCHIVIST
GG
REDACTED
9/25/12
2/3/15
MEMORANDUM
THE WHITE HOUSE
SECRET/SENSITIVE
WASHINGTON
XGDS
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
James R. Schlesinger, Secretary of Defense
Lt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant
to the President for National Security Affairs
DATE & TIME:
Thursday - - June 12, 1975
4:30 p.m.
PLACE:
The Oval Office
The White House
President: That was an interesting session last night.
Schlesinger: Very. It was quite a performance.
GERALD LIBRARY P. FORD
President: I made the point of no linkage.
Scowcroft: Henry has given Jim a readout.
President: Good.
Schlesinger: You have done well on the DOD votes. On Diego Garcia, we
have problems. Vest says there is only a 50-50 chance but I think we will
win.
President: If you need my phone calls, let me know.
Schlesinger: The first subject I want to discuss is critical military writing.
Admiral Moorer's Public Affairs Officer, still on active duty, has written
an article critical of the Vietnam war. I favor having the military speak
out responsibly, but criticism even of past policy, is a problem. I wanted
to get your judgment.
President: How is his article critical?
SEGRET/SENSITIVE
DECLASSIFIED IN PART
XGDS
Authority NLF08-91 E.O. 13526 Appear #25
NARÀ PMH Date 2/3/2005
SEGRET/SENSITIVE/XGDS
- 2 -
Schlesinger: He criticizes the fact that there was no mobilization of the
Reserves, that we tried to have both guns and butter, etc. I think there
is some merit in letting the military do things like this, when you consider
there are no wraps on civil service in this regard.
President: What do you think Brent?
Scowcroft: I think there is a line between thoughtful, analytical articles,
which I favor, and articles critical of the Commander in Chief or the
Secretary which I think cannot be tolerated.
President: I tend to agree, if it is analytical and non-polemical, I think it
is fine.
Schlesinger: I am inclined to go along, but this is not a particularly good
article, and I wanted to warn you that it will open the flood gates.
President: Let's try it.
Scowcroft: It will make it tough for you to screen.
Schlesinger: That is true. But the military need to get out responsibly
into print.
I will not go with Callaway and you on Saturday unless you want. It's his
show.
President: Okay.
Schlesinger: I wanted to talk about ASW. There are two Soviet developments
in ASW which we have found out about
3.3(b)(1)
3.3(b)(1)
One development relates to submarine tracking
3.3(b)(4)
3.3(b)(4)
These
developments show the major effort they are making in ASW, directed
primarily toward our FBM forces.
President:
3.3(b)(4)
3.3(b)(4)
1S
GERAD R. FORD
SPGRET/SENSITIVE/XGDS
- 3 -
Schlesinger: Yes.
President: That is unbelieveable.
Schlesinger: We have been working on the aspects of this ASW phenomenology.
We don't know what causes it.
3.3(b)(4)
3.3(b)(4)
3.3(b)(4)
We were very lucky
3.3(b)(1)
3.3(b)(1)
These programs
show Soviet interest in reducing U.S. strategic capabilities. One conclusion
I come to is that with development of their growing counterforce capability
against our Minuteman silos and this possibility of growing submarine
vulnerability, we should be careful about writing off mobile missiles in
SALT negotiations. The arms controllers oppose mobile missiles because
it is a new system and they take the position that anything not deployed
shouldn't be.
Scowcroft: There is also the verification problem.
President: I remember the old railroad Minuteman.
Schlesinger: Laird killed that when the Air Force showed him a mockup of
it going through the Chicago rail yards.
All this ASW is very sensitive. There is much phenology we are exploring
and we don't know what it is we have. There are some approaches based
on sampling of sea water, for example. But that depends on such small
traces that practical development is in doubt. The Trident is more secure
in this regard because it has such a great station keeping latitude.
President: Maybe we should go back to conventional submarines.
Schlesinger: That is an interesting thought -- but not while Rickover is
still alive. Along those lines, we have sent to OMB our recommendations
on nuclear versus conventionally powered ships. Mel Price is indignant we
are not proposing all nuclear. OMB wants to go entirely conventional.
President: Without talking the merits I want to warn you I am a nuclear man.
SEGRET/SENSITIVE/XGDS
GERALD LIBRARY P. FORD
SECRET/SENSITIVE/XGDS
- 4
Schlesinger: I told OMB that.
President: The Newport News Shipyard says they won't even bid on nuclear
ships for the Navy while Rickover is around.
Schlesinger: The next item I want to discuss is intelligence. I would hope
you would focus on legislative issues which will arise from the CIA investiga-
tion. You have two alternatives. You can take the initiative or you can let
Church do it.
President: As you probably know by now I have written a memorandum to
the relevant agencies asking everyone for comments and recommendations.
Schlesinger: The Rockefeller Commission recommendations are procedural.
You may want to go further. The name itself is bad -- it is a lightening rod
for everyone to beat the United States with. Clandestine operations may be
in jeopardy. I think that before Church's suggestion he will have made a
major assault on the clandestine business.
You earlier mentioned an interest in including some of the Mayagues crew
in the Marine Commandant swearing in.
President: I think that time is past. Lets do the swearing in in the traditional
way. Would he be opposed?
Schlesinger: Ordinarily no.
Now, some troublesome questions. First, on nuclear weapons deployments.
I sent over a memo on April 16 with my recommendations. As yet we have
heard nothing. We do have to be careful in Europe with MBFR Option III.
and we realize that there are political factors, and not just military efficiency
factors which may govern.
3.3(b)(6), 6.2(a)
3.3(b)(6), 6.2(a)
SEGRET/SENSITIVE/XGDS
&
FORD
GERALD
- 5 -
then political factors should prevail on that, I agree. Last summer I spent
much time worrying about the nuclear weapons
3.3(b)(6), 6.2(a)
3.3(b)(6), 6.2(a)
Walker has indicated you wanted to approve Schedule C appointments here,
I suggest that is not a good idea. It was done under Johnson and there was
a fuss about politicizing DOD. Laird got it changed. My judgment is you
don't get much out of it and there are political drawbacks.
President: Let me check.
Schlesinger: You will overload your system. The first one under your
new system was a systems test and evaluation man. He came over here
for interview -- - - but no one here knows technical capabilities he should
have.
Scowcroft: I will check it with our personnel people.
GERALD LIBRAY P. FORD
SEGRET/SENSITIVE/XGDS
NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION
Presidential Libraries Withdrawal Sheet
WITHDRAWAL ID 018013
REASON FOR WITHDRAWAL
....
National security restriction
TYPE OF MATERIAL
Note
DESCRIPTION
Brent Scowcroft's handwritten notes for
memcon
CREATION DATE
06/12/1975
VOLUME
5 pages
COLLECTION/SERIES/FOLDER ID
031400552
COLLECTION TITLE
National Security Adviser. Memoranda of
Conversations
BOX NUMBER
12
FOLDER TITLE
June 12, 1975 - Ford, Schlesinger
DATE WITHDRAWN
05/28/2004
WITHDRAWING ARCHIVIST
GG
REDACTED
9/25/12
1
P/S physical
12 June 25
P
Interesting disin last injut
S
Very Quite a in performance
F
I malec paint now no linkuye
Sco Herry has grown Jim a readont
P
Good.
S
you hase done will on Chr DOD intes
Da Diago, cere have juds Vert saparysore
but g think world win,
of
Seyan need my phone calls, let here know
S
Cutrial invitity usiting Works from PA, still
an a trie buty, with entired of ON wore I want
under G Apenh ant unquirity but when
lion of part policy is a port. I wantel get
your julpment
P
What has Ham entrid?
S
no morking atm, guno & butter, to, Ithik
then 12 zone mist in it, when the are
no wrays clin ciril Service
P
What dr your Chris Burt
Sco. Strick time is a his het, they's amolopities
certifies, which I four, and articles initial b @ in Core
Sing, which 2 think connt becaterated
P I tenal to agree, if it 5 analytists me. phinest
S
I dr include X along Butter Stio ist 6
particularly year centribe, 1 itwillgon aflow
gats
P
Lets' an it.
Sco It will mahe it English a seven
S
That is the. But c will will petaint
usp. into print
DEC! ASSIFIED w/ portions exempted
E.O. 13626 (as amended) SEC 3.3
MR# 08-91: #25
GERALD UBRANA ? FORD
NSC memo 3130/06; ospets OSD 11/17/11; nouyltr 9/25 112
By dol NARA, Date 11/8/12
S devill not to w/Callama, & yen on Saturdy
unless you wont. It from show
P
?
S
% tab atort AS W.
P
S Yes
P That
S We have her working on this
we dan't how what cansb it
will who buch
LIBRATY GERALD ? FORD
This 2hrms
interst in returning us shot
On condition w/ dipot of
OF cap apairst ap and silms of This presibity
of groming sur we should
he careful about writing off motries missik
and controlless agent because it her system
+
day thing we desinged should he,
Sco also inseprextion forthern
P
demarks coll eailm NINE
S
havid kind that certer AF thank
of it geing then Chicago sait yourds
are this A 05 is every sensitive. There is much
we one explain x and dnit know that,
Threane serve whi boxl ctan sumpling
Ha wath for youple Tondnet is none seave
have it hrs fruch a great station helping
Catitude
P
Zunght we should go bruk to emuistment jub.
S
Interisting the - but net alsol
along this lises, and hml short to 01111% ilearn
on tmc US cow / 200 price michant
we ant proposing are me OMB units of unique
and much strips
P
w/o taking c munts, & arm a me men
S
2ther OM B that.
P
hasport hans Shipsjash Imp they writ were
find on une ships while Richiver is and
S
Intell find I would high you emel from
are legis which will anial, you can
FORD
GERALD LISA ?
a lit Chrichdi it
P Usi have orhed everyone Pn munts
S Rirhi Green Mark and provided you
my want togo to forther. Tone have is bod-a
hightering end, Elvendistric opens may be
Indiving in Anmine Commonlat
in. your mastried on entrast
P that time is fort. hits do it instructional
army.
S
Umr, some translessure prestions. hur upons
deplayment Smitch apr 16. Harrent hard,
yet. we du honts he callpul in E un w/
MBFR Option III are rewhize folitiin faths
est just will effriman pointas they ferm
GERALD LIBRAY P FORD
Walker has inchined you wanted to afform
Sched C appts here. 2 say gest that not good
elin. It evon dune encles Johnson k there
uses faro atmt potiticing 10N hand get
it changes my jodgerent i you don't
get much and fir r there are pul chawhotes.
P Gut me check
S yr willowedon you suptem The 1st one
* f
who an System Gst + lime - he came own
here for interest - pur w are here knows
what tech enjoyitity to what,
** Sca chich at w/ J personal people,
GERALD R FORD