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This file contains a transcript of Jimmy Carter's interview with Harry Reasoner on ABC News.
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First Debate: Carter Interview with Harry Reasoner
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First Debate: Carter Interview with Harry Reasoner
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This file contains a transcript of Jimmy Carter's interview with Harry Reasoner on ABC News.
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White House Special Files Unit Files
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The original documents are located in Box 1, folder "First Debate: Carter Interview with
Harry Reasoner" of the White House Special Files Unit Files at the Gerald R. Ford
Presidential Library.
Copyright Notice
The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) governs the making of
photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. Gerald Ford donated to the United
States of America his copyrights in all of his unpublished writings in National Archives collections.
Works prepared by U.S. Government employees as part of their official duties are in the public
domain. The copyrights to materials written by other individuals or organizations are presumed to
remain with them. If you think any of the information displayed in the PDF is subject to a valid
copyright claim, please contact the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library.
Digitized from Box 1 of the White House Special Files Unit Files at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
[July 1976]
INTERVIEW WITH JIMMY CARTER
BY
HARRY REASONER
ABC NEWS
PLAINS, GEORGIA
MR. REASONER: Tonight we have the first of several
reports on the Democratic ticket. We went to Plains, Georgia
last week for far-ranging conversations with Jimmy Carter
and Senator Mondale with the aim of finding the flavor and
measure of the candidates before all the speechifying of a
fall campaign begins. We hope to do the same thing with the
Republican ticket immediately after the Kansas City Convention.
Jimmy Carter took me walking in a peanut field.
He knows a lot about peanuts, and it is a good place to begin
to understand him. This is his land but his real business is
in buying and processing peanuts from other farmers. He is
used to picking up a peanut plant for visiting reporters and
explaining to them that they are vegetables, not nuts, really,
and good to eat even in this fetal stage.
GOVERNOR CARTER: You see there is a peanut just
starting out, where it came out. I guess there is one
in the original form. See? That is the end of the little
short pair. It starts growing up and gets larger and larger
and larger and larger and larger and that becomes a peanut.
MR. REASONER: They are pretty good, in texture sort
of like a sauteed garlic bud.
A family cemetery was a few yards away, which brought
up the question of Carter's evangelical Christianity and whether
a Baptist in the White House would be likely to demand Baptist
standards of behavior and morals from everybody else. We
asked him.
GOVERNOR CARTER: Moral standards, you know, are
primarily personal in nature. One of the teachings of Christ
in which I believe is that we should not judge other people.
Page 2
One of the tenets of the Christian faith is that
all of us are sinners, none of us are better than others,
that though we are saved by God through grace, which means a
free gift, not because of the good works we do -- and Jesus
himself tought that we should not judge others. The expression
he used in the Sermon on the Mount was, why be concerned about
the mote or the speck that is in your brother's eye when you
have beams in your own eyes? So, we are very careful to
remember what Christ said and not to judge other people.
MR. REASONER: This family cemetery looks like it
has been here a while. Your people have been here how long
now, in this part of Georgia?
GOVERNOR CARTER: The people who are buried here
settled on this land in 1833. This is my wife's grandfather's
grandfather. His name was Jerry Murray and when the Indians
moved out of this area in 1828, it took about five years to
survey the territory and he was the first to originally settle
it. I think my children will be the sixth generation on this
land.
My own people came into Georgia, the Carter's did,
the famous James Carter, incidentally, in 1767, and both my
family and Rosalyn's family, who were born in the late 1700s,
are buried here in Plains and they have never moved very far
so far.
MR. REASONER: What does the land mean to you,
Governor?
GOVERNOR CARTER: Well, when your family has lived
in the same place on the same land for 200 years, and when all
your relatives and friends live in the same small community
like Plains, it is a very overwhelming factor in your consciousness.
When I am out campaigning anywhere in the country or
when I was Governor in Atlanta, I had a strong tie back here
from Plains to me. I was a professional Naval officer, went
to the Naval Academy and served in the Navy 11 years, and had
my roots not been here in Plains and very strong, I would
probably have stayed in the Navy and never come home and never
have gotten in politics. So, the land itself is very important
to me.
Page 3
GERALD
In these fields around us here which are now worked
by large machines and tractors, when I grew up until I was 17
years old and went to the Navy, we plowed these same fields
with mules, we pulled every peanut plant out of the ground
and shook the dirt off it by hand. We pulled every ear of
corn by hand. We pulled the fodder first, we picked velvet
beans, we put poison on every cotton plant individually by hand,
and that experience and that consciousness is very vivid and
very important to me.
There is stability there and an inclination to search
out in your past things that ought not to be changed that I
think derive directly from the land.
MR. REASONER: Most Americans now though won't die
in the town or the county where their fathers died. Isn't
that a vanishing breed, these people that stick to the land?
GOVERNOR CARTER: Well, perhaps so, looking at it from
a nationwide viewpoint. But, looking at it from the perspective
of Plains, Georgia, there is still a lot of that vanishing
breed left.
MR. REASONER: Tell me this: Did you ever figure
out what to do about the gnats?
GOVERNOR CARTER: Well, I learned about 30 years ago
to ignore them. I don't even know that they are there.
MR. REASONER: They are there. (Laughter)
Tomorrow night we will continue this report with
how Carter feels about some of the issues.
Governor, I don't imagine you are prepared to reveal
your respective Cabinet today but I would like to ask you a few
questions about what will happen if you are elected.
You have said you would reduce the size of the White
House staff. President Ford said he would, too, but he has
increased it since he said that. Do you mean it?
GOVERNOR CARTER: I do. It will be reduced if I am
there. We are not making any presumption that I am going to be
elected although I think I have a good chance to be elected, but
we are making plans so that we can know ahead of time what
responsibilities would be on the shoulders of Cabinet members and
the responsibilities would be much greater than in the last
few Administrations.
Page 4
And we want to take out of the White House the palace
guard aspect where all the functions of Government are run from
within the White House itself. So the staff in the White
House would be substantially reduced.
MR. REASONER: What about the personal White House
staff? Would Hamilton Jordan be your Chief=of-Staff?
GOVERNOR CARTER: I haven't decided yet and don't
want to talk about any particular persons until after the
November election.
MR. REASONER: You made a number of commitments and
promises in your acceptance speech, and then, speaking to
Sam Donaldson (?) afterwards, he said, how long would it take,
and you said you could do it in one term. Those are some of
the things that I think every President I can remember has
promised and asked for and cannot get through Congress. What
makes you think you could?
GOVERNOR CARTER: Well, I have had experience às
Governor in dealing with the legislature, and I am fairly
cautious about what I have promised. I think I will have a
closer relationship with Congress after the electoral process
this year and if I am successful than has been seen in many,
many years.
I think also there has been a great frustration built up
and a disappointment build up in the minds of the American
people at the constant squabbling, arguing, divisiveness, a
lack of cooperation between the White House and Congress. There
is a strong move among the people which is mirrored in the
attitude of Congress and myself toward better consultation,
better relationships, better respect, more openness. So, I think
those things will force us to be cooperative.
The other thing is that there has been an absence of
leadership in the White House for so long, in the latter part
of Nixon's Administration, with the Watergate investigations,
and then with Ford there has been practically no leadership
exhibited from the White House. I think the Congress is looking
for strong leadership from there.
Page 5
We, in analyzing issues, this year, are using key
Members of Congress and their staffs whom they recommend to
work with us in deciding what ought to be done with basic
tax reform, welfare reform, agricultural policies, transportation,
energy and so forth. So I think there will be a good knowledge
of one another if I am successful, and the other thing is I
consider my word of honor at stake.
MR. REASONER: One of the charges you have faced a
couple of times during the campaign is the charge that you
have different faces for different audiences. I am thinking
of your remarks about tax reform in your acceptance speech, and
then last week your visit with businessmen in New York City.
Some people interpreted what you said in New York as a backing
away from your populous promises in your speech. How do you
reconcile that, sir?
GOVERNOR CARTER: There is no incompatibility there at
all. I am going to have the first year devoted to a complete
revision of the income tax structure to eliminate loopholes
and special privileges that have been enjoyed by the rich and
the powerful entities in our society.
I let it be known to the businessmen, for instance,
that I was going to do this. In the past a tax reform quite
often has resulted in a cheating of the average American family
because the reforms are shaped by intense pressure from special
interest groups and the general public is not aware of what is
going on.
I am going to be responsible as President for any
comprehensive major tax reform and for acquainting the American
people with the issues that are drawn. And if I can get the
support from the folks back home with the natural inclination
of many Congressmen, I think we can be successful.
MR. REASONER: Would as drastic a measure as a
revolutionary measure of taking home mortgage interest off the
deductible list -- would that be included in your program?
GOVERNOR CARTER: Well, we now have about $10 billion
in tax credits or incentives for the ownership of homes. I would
maintain that incentive toward home ownership. I think, if
anything, perhaps it needs to be expanded a little bit. But I
would reserve the right to modify the mechanism used to give
that credit.
Page 6
At the present time, over 50 percent of that credit
goes to less than 25 percent of the richer home owners. Those
owning a very extensive home get a much greater credit. Those
who are in higher income tax brackets get a much greater credit
for home ownership. And if there is any change made -- and I
think there will be some changes -- I would shift the tax credits
or incentives for home ownership to the low and middle income
families and to those who own one home. That is the way the
reform should be done and that is what I will do.
MR. REASONER: I have a couple more questions. One
relates to the fact that you in effect won the nomination very
early, you didn't have to make any commitments on the Vice
Presidency. Who do you owe when you take office, if you take
office?
GOVERNOR CARTER: I have never made a private promise
or commitment to any person, any special interest group or anyone.
I believe I will be successful in going all the way through
the November election with only one obligation, and that is
directly to the American people.
I get a lot of advice and counsel from special interest
groups, nurses, school teachers, farmers, laborers, and this
is legitimate, and I feel obligated to those who give me support,
but I will equally represent those who have not supported me
in the general election. I believe I am strong enough politically,
possibly because of my independent attitude in this respect not
to be even tempted to depend on powerful special interest groups
to put me in office. And I want to do that. I have promised,
and I don't intend to break my promise, to let any commitments
or promises that I make on future legislation or future action
be known publicly. And I believe that I don't have to even be
tempted to get elected.
MR. REASONER: Tomorrow we will hear from Carter on
foreign policy. That will be different if he is elected, he
says.
Now, continuing the report on Jimmy Carter and the
Democratic ticket, we turn tonight to foreign affairs. In
Carter's study in Plains, Georgia, last week we began by asking
him about the current architect of American foreign policy.
Page 7
Turning to foreign affairs, you have had your briefing
from George Bush, not from Henry Kissinger, and some people
thought when you referred to a "lone ranger" kind of foreign
policy you might possibly have meant Henry Kissinger. (Laughter)
Do you disapprove of him in some manner, sir?
GOVERNOR CARTER: Yes. I think Secretary Kissinger
is a brilliant man and a good negotiator and has a good sense
of humor. I like him personally. I think the thing I don't
like about Henry Kissinger is that I don't believe he trusts
the American people, our judgment, our common sense. I don't
think he has a deep commitment to the views and high moral
character of the people to be mirrored in what our country is.
He is much too inclined to act secretly, excluding us from
participation in the decision-making process and that includes
the Congress as well.
Secretary Kissinger has been inclined to establish his
own reputation with highly publicized and sometimes nonproductive
trips to Peking seven or eight times, to Moscow five or six
times. He has made decisions that affect our natural allies
and friends, those in Europe, this hemisphere, Japan, without
adequate prior consultation. Only recently has he shown any
interest in the developing nations of the world. So those are
some of the criticisms I have of him.
He has responded to some of my foreign policy speeches
by saying he can't see any substantial difference between my
attitude and that of himself, which is kind of a compliment to
me. But there are some differences, primarily in getting the
American people and the Congress to form a much better informed
and a much more bipartisan nature of support of what our country
is and what we do in relationships with other nations.
MR. REASONER: What would be some changes, what would
be some differences between a Carter foreign policy and a Kissinger
foreign policy apart from the form?
GOVERNOR CARTER: I would strengthen it in every way I
could through relationships among European countries in the NATO
area. I think Secretary Kissinger has been inclined to treat
those nations as individuals and to discourage their closer
correlation. I think a strong Europe, militarily, economically
and politically would be to our own advantage. I would have a
much greater emphasis on recementing foreign relationships that
presently exist between our country and Canada, our country and
Mexico, our country and the other nations of Central and South
America.
Page 8
~
I think we need to have a much more comprehensive
approach to the problems of mutual defense. We have not reassessed
now our relative contributions to NATO, I believe, since 1967,
and there has been a tremendous technological improvement in
weapons systems since that time.
I think we need to have reassurance to give to the
Japanese and before we make any major immediate decisions
as they relate to the People's Republic of China, or a shipment
of crucial elements or commodities to Japan, like soybeans or coal,
that we ought to consult with them. So these are some of the
things that would be changed.
I would be inclined toward friendship with the
Soviet Union and with the People's Republic of China, and
I think that friendship ought to be based on strength. I would
never yield in any way the full responsibility that would fall
on my shoulders, which is the most important of all, to have
a nation strong enough in its defense capability to guarantee
the security of our country.
MR. REASONER: Secretary Kissinger recently began a
new, quite different American policy in Africa. Would you approve
of that policy of starting an alliance with the black elements
in Africa?
GOVERNOR CARTER: I believe SO. I think this was brought
about belatedly by the abject failure of the Kissinger, Ford
and Nixon policy, for instance, in Angola. We were faced
with the realization there when the Portuguese left Angola that
we had no policy that related directly with the people of that
nation. We suffered because of it in that the Soviet Union
and Cuba have now replaced us completely as a friend to the
Angolan people. And I think in the aftermath of that debacle,
which was brought about primarily by secrecy and a lack of planning
and a lack of consideration of the needs of the natives of Angola,
we have suffered. And in the analysis of that suffering or
mistake, I think Mr. Kissinger has moved in the right direction.
MR. REASONER: For the past three nights we have broadcast
filmed reports on Jimmy Carter made during a visit to Plains,
Georgia, last week. Senator Walter Mondale, Carter's running
mate, was there, too, staying in the farmhouse, seeing a few
reporters, spending a lot of time talking to Carter. We stopped
by the pond house to see Mondale and talk about how his feeling
for his role has developed since Madison Square Garden
Page 9
Senator, every President in my memory has said that
he was going to have a new and dramatically important role
for his Vice President, and Governor Carter says that, too,
and I believe he means it, and I am sure you believe he means
it. Has anything come up about what kind of a role that would
be? Has he any better idea than he did a couple of weeks ago?
SENATOR MONDALE: I am aware of that, and the key
question I had when I came to visit the Governor some weeks back
at Plains was just that, number one, what was his concept of the
Vice Presidency, and, number two, were we personally compatible,
and I came away convinced that he did want a role for the Vice
Presidency and that we could get along and we could talk candidly.
Now, I recognize that a Vice President works for the
President. He is not an alternative President. One of the things
that encourages me is that we do get along very well, we are
very candid, very open and we don't mind criticizing each other.
And in all these briefings I have been encouraged to
participate fully. At our news conferences we participate in
them together. Of course, time will tell, but at this point I
am encouraged to believe this may be different.
Page 10
BERAL
AMERICA
MR. REASONER: You haven't gotten into specifics
as to what title you might have?
SENATOR MONDALE: No, except in this sense: I told
him I was interested in, first of all, the opportunity to
participate in the major decision-making process so I could
be heard; secondly, that I wanted some significant functions
in both the domestic and foreign fields. I said that is
what he wanted.
MR. REASONER: Senator, are you going to continue
to make an issue of the Nixon pardon in the campaign?
SENATOR MONDALE: I think it is very important.
You know I am not questioning Mr. Ford's motives. That is not
the issue. But, that has bothered me from the time it
happened, and I said so in my book in 1974. This
isn't something I just said at that Convention.
There is nothing more sacred to American life than
the notion of equality before the law. You know the Supreme
Court words above the door in the Supreme Court building
say, "Equal Justice Under Law," and that has bothered me
greatly.
Now, I don't intend to just dwell on it. I think
people know about it. You don't have to emphasize it all the
time, and there are many other issues we have to talk about.
But, that does bother me, and I am willing to say it.
MR. REASONER: Has Governor Carter warned you
off it?
SENATOR MONDALE: No, he has said that he is not
going to make it an issue, but he also said that he wouldn't
have granted the pardon. We have decided that in our
campaign, you know, that if we disagree on issues or disagree
on emphasis, that we are just going to do it.
I know that that may not be believable, but we are
going to try it. This old notion that a Vice President
should just be an identical carbon copy of a President, I
don't think it is believable. It certainly is not comfortable.
I doubt that it is good Government. Of course, it is Governor
Carter's Administration, but we are just going to try to be
open about it.
Page 11
MR. REASONER: Who would you rather run against,
Mr. Ford and Mr. X or Governor Reagan and Senator Schweiker?
SENATOR MONDALE: I thought that over and dis-
covered that even if I had an opinion, they probably
wouldn't listen. I don't know. I have not had much luck
in advising Republicans. Frankly, I think if we do our
job well and if the American people see Jimmy Carter the
way I do and the way those who know him see him, I think
Governor Carter is going to be elected handsomely.
MR. REASONER: We reported every night this week on
the Democratic ticket based on a trip to Plains, Georgia
last week and talked to Jimmy Carter and Walter Mondale.
We noted we hope to do the same thing right after the
Kansas City Convention with the Republican ticket, in each
case an attempt to get the flavor of the candidates
before the bombast and confusion of the formal campaign.
It seems like a good idea now to do a little summing up.
Everybody knows by now that Plains, Georgia is a
strange place to grow a Presidential candidate, but it
doesn't really hit you until you see it. Here is a place
which is really, in the old American phrase, 80 miles
west of nowhere. And here is a man, a few years ago at
least, with no powerful friends, no extensive record of
public service, with no inherited background of wealth or
culture or intellectualism.
Here is a man who decided a little over three years
ago he could run for President and now has, according to the
polls, a good chance of moving into the most powerful office
in the world.
How do you judge him? Well, in a way Mr. Carter
has made it easy. No candidate in my memory has said so
many things flatly that he must either live up to or become
ridiculous. Not since Dwight Eisenhower, for example, has
a President asked for this kind of an image.
GOVERNOR CARTER: And the other thing is I consider
my word of honor at stake.
Page 12
MR. REASONER: And maybe never has a major candidate
been so casually but determinedly religious. It scares some
people.
GOVERNOR CARTER: The born again phrase is one that
Christ himself used in explaining the doctrine that I just
described, that the first birth is from your mother's womb,
the second birth is when you are born into the Kingdom of
God and under that belief we are all brothers and sisters
on an equal basis as children of God.
MR. REASONER: And rarely has a candidate seemed so
calmly confident that he can keep his promises.
GOVERNOR CARTER: I don't intend to break my
promises to the American people. I suppose that is one of
the most difficult things I will face, but I don't have
any doubt that I will succeed. I have never made a private
promise or commitment to any person, any special interest
group or anyone.
MR. REASONER: So to mix some metaphors, Mr.
Carter has either built his own triumphal platform in
advance or carved his own petard to be hoist on, if that
is what you do to petards. Of course, he can be forgiven
if he is elected and find out that the United States
Congress has not been born again.
But, in the areas that are largely under
Presidential control, the Executive Branch, the forming
of foreign policy, the openness of the White House and more
than anything the area of strong and unequivocal personal
honor and compassion he has -- well, he has asked for it.
It should be an interesting campaign.
*****