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    "localId": "1553095",
    "label": "May 29, 1975 - Ford, Kissinger, Portuguese Prime Minister Goncalves",
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    "title": "May 29, 1975 - Ford, Kissinger, Portuguese Prime Minister Goncalves",
    "citationUrl": "https://catalog.archives.gov/id/1553095",
    "collections": [
        "Memoranda of Conversations (Nixon and Ford Administrations)",
        "Ford Administration Memoranda of Conversations"
    ],
    "subjects": [
        "Portugal",
        "North Atlantic Treaty Organization. (4/4/1949 - )",
        "Communism"
    ],
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    "ocrText": "File scanned from the National\nSecurity Adviser's Memoranda of\nConversation Collection at the\nGerald R. Ford Presidential Library\nSECRET/NODIS\nMEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION\nTime: May 29, 1975\n3:30-4:30 p.m.\nPlace: Ambassador Firestone's\nresidence, Brussels,\nBelgium\nSUBJECT:\nMeeting with Portuguese\nPARTICIPANTS: Portugal:\nPrime Minister Goncalves\nAdmiral Rosa Continho\nF. Magalhaes Cruz, Ministry of Foreign Affairs\nS. Sacadura Cabral, Ministry of Foreign\nAffairs\nCommander Duarte Lima, Chief of Cabinet of\nAdmiral Continho\nY. Maltos Procuca, Prime Minister's Cabinet\nU.S.:\nThe President\nSecretary of State Kissinger\nCounselor Sonnenfeldt\nLieutenant General Scowcroft\nAssistant Secretary for European Affairs\nHartman\nU.S. Interpreter\nDISTRIBUTION:\nPresident:\nMr. Prime Minister, I want you to know how\nencouraged we are by the change that has\ntaken place from the former regime in\nR FORD\nGERALD LIBRARY\nDECLASSIFIED\nSECRET\nE.O. 12958, Sec. 3.5\nXGDS\nState Dept. Guidelines State 3/9/04\nBy\n, NARA, Date 5/17/04\nSECRET- XGDS (3)\nCLASSIFIED BY: HENRY A. KISSINGER\nSECRET/NODIS\n-2-\nin Portugal. I would very much like to\nhave from you your appraisal of the situa-\ntion in Portugal and some indication as far\nas you are concerned about your feelings on\nNATO.\nGoncalves:\nFirst of all in all frankness let me say\nthat we are not a trojan horse in NATO. As\nwe have publicly stated, we will stand by\nour commitments and abide by our obligations\nin NATO. We feel that this is particularly\nimportant and we do not pretend that there\nshould be a change in the balance of power.\nOn the contrary, we believe that by\nmaintaining the balance of forces, the situa-\ntion can be improved. What we want is a\nnational independent policy and we believe\nthat such independence goes hand in hand with\nan improvement in relations but not if the\nbalance of forces is changed. We recognize\nthe geopolitical context in which we fit. We\nare Europeans but we also have special ties\nto our former African territories. We feel\nthat we can make a contribution by becoming\na link between the developed countries and the\nSECRET/NODIS\nGERALD\nLIBRARY\nSECRET/NODIS\n-3-\nless developed countries in Africa. But\nI wish to stress again, that we are here to\nshow that we abide by our commitments and\nthat we do not wish to weaken NATO. Our new\ndemocratic regime in Portugal in fact, gives\nNATO a better overall impression than it had\nwith the old regime.\nPresident:\nThe United States has strongly supported NATO\nas an alliance of free governments working\ntogether. We have invested much in this\nhealthy relationship. The alliance was created\nto resist communism. We do not agree with the\nform or operations of the previous government\nand we are encouraged by the growth of demo-\ncracy in Portugal. We were greatly encouraged\nby the vote in the referendum and feel that it\nis a genuine expression of the will of your\npeople -- an expression of will that occurred\nfor the first time in many years. This is most\nencouraging to us. We believe that the voice\nof the people should be reflected in your\ngovernment and we hope that your government\nwill be a good partner in NATO. We are con-\ncerned, however, that the vote does not seem\nto be reflected by some elements and that\n?\nSECRET/NODIS\nGERALD\nSECRET/NODIS\n-4-\ntherefore, the potential exists that some\nelements will not be as good a NATO partner.\nGoncalves:\nMr. President are you referring to the\npresence of communists in the government?\nPresident:\nYes, specifically and this bothers us in\nNATO which was formed to meet the challenges\nof communism. This does not mean that we do\nnot appreciate the progress made in detente\ntoo. What concerns us is that communist\ninfluences in Portugal will be reflected in\nNATO itself.\nGoncalves:\nBut that does not happen. The process is\nvery complicated and it would take me some\ntime to explain fully but let me try in a\nfew words. With regard to the Treaty and\nthe secrecy involved, we are now in a period\nof transition. It has been accepted by all\npolitical parties in our country that politi-\ncal power is separate from military power.\nThe President is a military man and he wears\nanother hat as chief of the joint staff --\ntherefore on all matters dealing with NATO\nand military affairs they are run through\nSECRET/NODIS\nGERALD\nSECRET/NODIS\n-5-\nthis system. Then there is the provi-\nsional government. It also happens that\nI am a military man but all military matters\nrun outside the provisional government.\nThere is a clean cut separation. On top of\nthis structure there is the Council of the\nRevolution which is composed only of military\nmen. The Chairman of the Council is also\nPresident of the Republic. There can be no\nconfusion about this and there will be no\ninterference in NATO. What I am stating is\nthe policy of the Council of the Revolution\nand of the provisional government. The com-\nmunists have never raised any problems about\nthese arrangements. They support our main-\ntaining our international agreements and\ncommitments. The Portuguese people and the\ncoalition government have accepted these\nfacts. We would not be able to stay in NATO\nif it were otherwise.\nPresident:\nYou can appreciate that we cannot tolerate a\ncommunist influence in NATO.\nSECRET/NODIS\nGERALD ? FORD\nSECRET/NODIS\n-6-\nGoncalves:\nThere will be no such influence. Those\nwho know can tell you this. You must\nalso take account of the fact that the\nCouncil of the Revolution is composed\nonly of military men who have their own\nethics. They will be concerned about the\nwelfare of our commitments.\nPresident:\nAre you saying that there are no communists\nin the Armed Forces and therefore you are a\nreliable member of NATO.\nGoncalves:\nYou can rely on the military entirely.\nOur enemies have brandished the communist\nscarecrow. Of course, there is a struggle\namong the political parties. But our\nmajority does not permit this struggle to\naffect the operations of the military part\nof our government.\nPresident:\nAre you saying that the Armed Forces Movement\nis free and clear of communist influence?\nGoncalves:\nYes, we have political positions that are\ndivorced from any party.\nSecretary:\nMay I ask a question? The complexity of\nthe system you describe is beyond anything\nSECRET/NODIS\nGERALD\nSECRET/NODIS\n-7-\nI studied as a political scientist.\nWhy are communists in the government?\nWhy is there pressure to take communists\ninto the cabinet if there are no commun-\nists in the Armed Forces Movement?\nGoncalves:\nThe Armed Forces Movement (AFM) is\nstrongly non-partisan. The military when\nwe started the AFM committed on their honor\nto carry out a national program which would\nbe anti-fascist and it would improve the\nstandard of living of the poor people. The\nmilitary agreed that they would have no\nparty affiliation and that there would be\ndemocratic forces organized to carry out\nthe program. The Armed Forces Movement\nprogram has been accepted by all the parties\nallowed in the provisional government.\nPresident:\nWhen do you expect the provisional govern-\nment to become an elected government?\nGoncalves:\nThis present government is democratic. It's\ncarrying out a campaign to fight on all\nfronts to improve the economy, education,\netc. Experience shows that you cannot turn\nFORD\na\nGERALD\nSECRET/NODIS\n-8-\nover our country to political parties\nwithout a transition -- they need the\nAFM. So, the real situation is as follows:\nThe Armed Forces Movement is established\nto carry out and assure change. Then there\nare the political parties and that is the\nreality of Portuguese life. We are now\nframing the next constitution.\nPresident:\nWho controls the government and what is\nthe timetable to move toward democracy?\nConcalves:\nI believe this has all been described in\nthe press. You may have heard that there\nwas a pact agreed between the AFM and the\npolitical parties before the elections.\nThis pact provided that the new interim\nconstitution would have a legislative\nassembly which would be freely elected and\nin addition it would be an assembly of the\nAFM. The salient feature of our system is\nthat there will be a legislative assembly\nelected by the people in addition to the\nassembly of the Armed Forces Movement. Both\nassemblies embody our sovereignty.\nFORD\n?\nSECRET/NODIS\nGERALD\nSECRET/NODIS\n-9-\nPresident:\nBut which body controls the government?\nGoncalves:\nThe Council of the Revolution which is\nchaired by the President and that will\ncontinue during a transition period of\n3-5 years then we will need a new con-\nstitution, but that requires time.\nSecretary:\nAs Professor of Political Sciences, I\ndon't believe I have ever heard of a\nsystem which is quite so complex.\nGoncalves:\nIt is not complex if you understand that\nthere is a collegial relationship between\nthe two assemblies and that they both report\nto the President.\nSecretary:\nWho thought up this system? All of us have\nmuch admiration for its complex nature.\nGoncalves:\nTo understand it would take a while to\nexplanation. It is necessary to devote\ntime but this conversation should help to\nclear the air and make it easier to under-\nstand.\nPresident:\nI must re-emphasize that there cannot be\na strong NATO for the purpose which it was\nformed and have communists in it.\n&\nSECRET/NODIS\nGERALD\nSECRET/NODIS\n-10-\nGoncalves:\nI have already explained our situation.\nThese institutions meet our own domestic\nnational policy needs. But we are com-\nmitted to NATO and we stand by our agree-\nments and treaties. We believe we are in\na position to contribute to an improvement\nof world relations. We can help NATO to\nclear the international air globally. We\nbelieve it is necessary to stay in NATO\neven though we have a different political\nsystem. We like the Soviets and the United\nStates to reach agreements. We think that\nthe CSCE is good and that our aims are not\ninconsistent with these. Our domestic\npolitics may be different.\nPresident:\nYou can do what you wish domestically and\nif the communists have no influence in NATO\nyou will be a stronger partner.\nGoncalves:\nThe communists are carrying out the program\nof the AFM but we have the final say and we\nare aware of our own responsibilities.\nSECRET/NODIS\nGERALO a. FORD LIBRARY"
}