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September 28, 1976 - Ford, Kissinger, FRG Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich Genscher
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1553546
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September 28, 1976 - Ford, Kissinger, FRG Vice Chancellor Hans-Dietrich Genscher
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Memoranda of Conversations (Nixon and Ford Administrations)
Ford Administration Memoranda of Conversations
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Soviet Union
Germany (West)
North Atlantic Treaty Organization. (4/4/1949 - )
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1976-09-28
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1976
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File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
MEMORANDUM
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS:
Hans-Dietrich Genscher, Vice Chancellor and
Minister for Foreign Affairs, FRG
Amb. Berndt von Staden, FRG Ambassador to the US
Dr. Heinz Weber, Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Inter-
Dr. Guenther Verheugen, Special Asst.
preter)
to Foreign Minister
President Ford
Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State
Brent Scowcroft, Assistant to the President
for National Security Affairs
DATE & TIME:
Tuesday - September 28, 1976
2:25 - 3:27 p.m.
PLACE:
The Oval Office
President: We wish you the very best. Please give my very best to the
Chancellor.
Kissinger: How does it look?
Genscher: Over the last two weeks we have made headway and we expect
a majority of 2-3 percent, with some loss for the SPD and a slight gain
for the FDP. One institute predicts 9.5 percent for us.
President: We started about 32 points behind, then it narrowed to 10 points.
Then it fell back. Now we are behind 1-2-3 percent, depending on the poll.
We are ahead or even except in the South and he is in some trouble there.
So it will be a real horse race.
Genscher: It is still true what the Chancellor told you before. He expressed
his best wishes and he said if we could do as well in the television debate as
the President did, we will be fine.
CLASSIFIED BY Brent Scowcroft
EXEMPT FROM GENERAL DECLASSIFICATION
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS
SCHEDULE OF EXECUTIVE ORDER 11652
EXEMPTION CATEGORY
5 (B) (3)
DECLASSIFIED
AUTOMATICALLY DECLASSIFIED ON Imp. to Det.
E.O. 12958, SEC. 3.5
NSC MEMO, 11/24/98, STATE DEPT. GUIDELINES state Review 3/13/04
BY lot
.
NARA DATE 7/29/OH
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS
- 2 -
President: Is it an interview or direct questioning of each other?
Genscher: It is direct. It's Schmidt and me, Kohn and Strauss. We have
had individual ones which we think we won.
President: They are a pain in the neck, but they can be helpful.
How did your UN speech go?
Genscher: I hope it went well. I hope my remarks about Germany will
induce the GDR to respond. I met yesterday with Gromyko and perhaps
I could discuss that.
President: Please.
Genscher: I discussed our proposal for a court of human rights. We had
a sharp exchange on it. It isn't directed at the GDR but really
Gromyko
opened by expressing disappointment in the FRG's attitude toward the Soviet
Union, especially regarding their initiative on disarmament, MBFR and
generally. He very strongly tried to show us the opportunities which we
might have if we didn't so closely follow the United States. Never have they
tried so hard to drive a wedge between us. He said the Soviet Union is
interested in improving relations but that would depend on an increase of
flexibility on our part. He mentioned MBFR, but generally. I told him
that we would in no field go it alone, but in every case would work in con-
junction with our allies. It is the same tactic of promising things generally
in response to different behavior.
President: Was he in a good mood?
Genscher: Yes, but businesslike in the formal talks.
President: I can't say anything will come of our talks with him. We may
discuss SALT but I don't expect anything to come of it before our election.
We have just been too preoccupied.
Henry has been, of course, very busy with our African initiative. I guess
he has told you about it. We are getting surprising domestic support for
what we are trying to do.
Genscher: In Germany there has been a big change about South Africa. In
April I was attacked for supporting Secretary Kissinger's Lusaka speech.
Now there is a realization of the real nature of the threat there.
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS
- 3 -
What do you think is behind the sharp Soviet attack on our African policy?
President: I don't think they thought we would respond the way we have
after their success in Angola. I think they are very upset that their
progress has been thwarted.
The sentiment in this country has changed substantially over the past few
months. Our Congressional leadership was supportive. Of course they
a sked about the nature of the financial element. I said we would contribute
but it was multilateral and the Europeans would have to help.
Genscher: I think this initiative has counteracted the Soviet strategy to
increase its position in South Africa.
Kissinger: If the Soviets take the very radical leaders, and the black
leaders take less radical positions, the Soviets can embarrass them
with their people. And the Soviets can bury some of the leaders.
Genscher: How about the Chinese?
Kissinger: They are warning against the Soviets, which operationally
means they are supporting us. But it is clear they (the Soviets) have suffered
a setback or they wouldn't have reacted so sharply.
Genscher: Gromyko played the Berlin question easily. There was no mention
of Berlin and the direct election of the European Parliament. He said they
are interested in keeping Berlin free of great power involvement. If you
could mention Berlin to Gromyko it would be helpful to us. We are susceptible
to pressure on Berlin and any statement by you would help.
President: I would be pleased to do so.
I had a good meeting with the NATO Perm Reps recently. I had a good
feeling about the state of the Alliance. I think things are going well on the
tank program. Defense plans to award a contract in November, but I
understand we have made great progress on communality.
Genscher: Leber reported on the arrangements with great satisfaction.
I agree with your comment on the Alliance. Once the elections in various
countries are over, we can get things going again.
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS
- 4 -
In MBFR it is important to make some progress but we must insure that
any agreement is not one-sided. You are in the midst of your campaign
and I will talk to Secretary Kissinger on the plane.
Our economic program about which Chancellor Schmidt spoke to you,
continues. I think it will be about 6 percent. Once again, may I express
my and the Chancellor's good wishes for success.
President: It is always good to talk to you and the Chancellor and I hope
we will have many chances in the future.
(Discussed our economic statistics.)
The momentum is starting again and if we don't go too fast I think we can
have stable and substantial growth.
Genscher: That is our problem, so we plan no additional investment.
President: The British pound is doing poorly.
SECRET/NODIS/XGDS
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DECLASSIFIED
&
E.O. 12958, SEC. 3.5
RY Lah
NSC MEMO, 11/24/98, STATE DEPT. GUIDELINES state Rview 3/13/04
DIRALD
LIBRARY
NARA DATE 7/29/04
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