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J. Okay. B. I said ministers last night. There are now 8,000 ministers, affiliate membership numbers somewhere near 100,000 now. J. Where are the branches of the church outside of the U. S.? You mentioned there were 14 foreign countries. B. In Europe there is England, Sweden, Italy in particular. I have a listof all of the ones in Italy, and then Uganda in the Continent of Africa, and several of the new emerging African nations the people have been named Bishops and like this for their égo purposes, and they're growing quite large. In fact the head of - the Bishop of the Uganda Church is the Defense Minister there of Uganda, I think that is very interesting. J. What's his name? B. I can't pronounce any of those black names. You forget it. I've got it at home. J. Will you send it back? Send us B. I'll send it to Mr. Alcock, yes. J. Now do you know, for example, you just stated that the Defense Minister of Uganda is the head of the Universal Life Church there. B. 10,000 members in his church inmUganda. He won't have have it for long. It's more of. a political party than anything religious. J. Can you say another country where possibly a Defense Minister or another member of the government is known to you would be involved? B. I think you're projecting a bit because I don't know these people's positions. I know the Mayor of a town in the Country of Guatemala is the head of the Universal Life Church in his city, but he is not the head of the church in Guatemala. DR. HENSLEY is the head of the church in Guatemala. J. DR. HENSLEY of Modesto? B. Yes. He is the head of the church in Guatemala. J. Does he go to Guatemala to take part in it? B. No, he's never been there. He just -- al through correspondence. There are several ministers in Guatemala, Honduras - British Honduras, Costa Rica, Nicaragua; one of the Samosa brothers, I don't know whichever one that is still alive, he wrote for our papers. He has been granted ministers and bishops papers with the Universal Life Church. Now, how he heard of it I do not know, and I understand that Samosa -2-