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JAN-08-1996 10:13 415 391 0759 P.02/14 Newsweek ® 03 D 706288 $ 01134 EXCLUSIVE: Excerpts From Hillary Rodham Clinton's New Book- And a Candid Interview on the White House Scandals Saint Sinner? JAN-08-1996 10:14 415 391 0 NATIONAL AFFAIRS Long infused with missionary zeal, Hillary Clinton is determined to do good as she sees it-at virtually any cost. But will her campaign for children be overshadowed by scandal? BY MARTHA BRANT AND EVAN THOMAS First Fighter ILLARY CLINTON SPENT NEW YEAR'S EVE IN A SAFE H place, a hotel ballroom in Hilton Head, S.C., sur- rounded by a thousand soulmates sworn to secrecy. She had come with her husband, for the 12th straight year, to Renaissance Weekend to share and care with people who believe in social uplift and the power of ideas. For nearly an hour, she went on about her deepest concerns: pro- viding economic opportunity for women throughout the world, protect- ing New Deal and Great Society programs from rapacious Republicans, saving children everywhere. She got 50 involved ably asking about the latest revelations. Graceful- that she seemed to almost forget to introduce her ly, if not always completely. she answered, deny- husband, whose speaking time had been cut back ing any wrongdoing. She bridled only once, at the to about half an hour before the toasts and hugs at word "subpoena," as in: Will it take a subpoena to midnight. get her to testify before Sen. Al D'Amato's A few days later. the First Lady was back in Whitewater committee? "I'm not going to pre- more forbidding territory: her home in Washing- dict." she coolly demurred. Her smile returning. ton, where news of ongoing White House scan- she changed the subject back to saving children. dals-Travelgate and Whitewater-dominated. Hillary Clinton has enor- A tireless Sitting in the third-floor solarium of the White mous self-control. She will advocate, Mrs. House Residence, she was pleasant and gracious need it. Last week D'Amato Clinton has never with a couple of reporters from NEWSWEEK who was brandishing Rose Law been a traditional had ostensibly come to talk to her about her new Firm billing records-long First Lady book, "It Takes a Village." but who were predict- under subpoena, but long 20 NEWSWEEK JANUARY 15. 1996 415 391 0759 P.04/14 ADD @ 32 JAN-08-1996 10:14 JAN-08-1996 10:16 415 391 0759 P.05/14 NATIONAL AFFAIRS 'Be doers of the word and not hearers only' was the familiar Methodist refrain of her childhood missing-that detailed Mrs. Clinton's con- sweet and homey how-to guide to child Mrs. Clinton's immediate world is a mix troversial work for Madison Guaranty, a rearing. and partly a policy-wonk discus- of fluff and hardball. To hear her aides talk, failed Arkansas savings and loan connected sion of seemingly every child-development life in what they call "Hillaryland" is like to Whitewater. This came just a day after a program of the past three decades. Republi- one big pajama party, albeit in the girls' self-described "soul cleansing" memo from cans will scoff at it: Supermom vying to dorm of a progressive religious college in a former White House staffer surfaced that outdo the GOP as chief defender of family the 1950s. The First Lady loves decorating made it appear that the First Lady had values. Actually, the book is a fair reflection and dressing up, sometimes goofily. This played a far more central role in Travelgate of who Mrs. Clinton is and what she stands Christmas, she was seen wandering around than she had carlier acknowledged. "I just for. It is closer to the "real Hillary" than all wearing a necklace of flashing holiday don't have any memory of that," she told the familiar press cartoons. lights. She enjoyed hanging a wreath with NEWSWEEK (page 26). The First Lady's social activism is not a hyper-homemaker Martha Stewart "I wish This week, as she kicks off her book tour, pose; she is dead serious. Her code is I could tell you she doesn't like that stuff, Americans will once again be trying to simple: "We are all here to help someone but she does," says Verveer. To her staffers, figure out who Hillary Clinton really is. else," says Melanno Verveer, one of her top she is corny and a "bit of a prude," says one. After the collapse of her campaign to re- aides. "She believes that to the core of her Dressed in blue jeans and a ponytail after- make the nation's health-care system. she being." If Mrs. Clinton had lived in the 19th hours at the White House, wearing her was thought to have retreated into the role century, she might have saved souls in Afri- thick Coke-bottle glasses. she will use ex- pressions like "Okey-dokey, artichokey," and ask, "What's up, buttercup?" She loves to sing. though she can't carry a tune. HE IS THE "BIG GIRL" IN THE S "Big House" in the affection- ate jargon of her aides (almost all of whom are female). Her staff is the most faithful in Washington. She fusses over them. asking about their chil- dren and their love lives and enjoying their jokes with a loud horsy laugh. But she re- veals less of herself. "I was raised not to talk about myself," she has told aides. And she is incredibly demanding. A perfection- ist-but a computer illiterate-she will call a staffer late at night to ask how to operate a NEWSWERK fax machine. She expects absolute loyalty. and she gets it. Although her husband's staff is notorious for its turnover, only two of Mrs. Clinton's 16 staffers have left, one be- cause her mother was sick. Her more easy- going friends sometimes wonder how Hil- lary could,be 50 close to Susan Thomases, a tough-talking, take-no-prisoners New York of a more traditional First Lady, visiting ca. It is not a coinci- After health care, litigator. The short answer, they under- hospitals and worrying about her hairdo. In dence that she relish- she became more stand, is that Thomases would do "any" truth, her hairstyles changed more than her es traveling through circumspect- thing" for Hillary. agenda. She is, and always has been, a mis- the developing world, but has never But loyalty to Hillary Clinton can be cost- sionary. Her all-consuming task is to do proselytizing about lacked a mission ly. The Clintons built a bunker when they good as she sees it, especially for children. children's rights and arrived in Washington, and the atmosphere She has been called everything from "Saint basking in the adoration of women. of suspicion and fear-of the press, of Con- Hillary" by her fans to the worst kind of Understanding her sense of mission is gress, and occasionally of Mrs. Clinton her- sinner by her enemies, but in fact the two critical to resolving the apparent paradoxes self-wore down their closest aides. When are not mutually exclusive. The same zeal of her character and behavior. Hillary's do- Hillary's best friend, deputy White House that is so impressive in her fight for worthy good energy can make her warm, open and counsel Vincent Foster, shot himself six causes can also lead her (at best) to be politi- generous. It can also make her fierce, pro- months into the new administration, he was cally insensitive and (at worst) to be ruth- tective and suspicious to the point of para- agonizing over what he felt was his person- less about getting her way. noia. Above all, it makes her a fighter-"ar al failure to ward off scandal. Since then, Mrs. Clinton's latest vehicle is her book, advocate," she calls herself-who will let several of Mrs. Clinton's aides, including which she will be flogging on an 11-city nothing stop her, particularly not D'Amato chief of staff Maggie Williams, have run up media swing. "It Takes a Village" (the title or vocal critics like the editorial writers of hefty legal fees testifying before various in- is taken from an African proverb) is partly a The Wall Street Journal. vestigators. They are uncomplaining. but 22 NEWSWEEK JANUARY 15, 1996 not a few of their friends wonder why Mrs. ist Church and Yale Law School. It is hard. ilies breaking down 'There is no such Clinton is allowing her aides to slowly in a more selfish and secular time, to appre- and children increas- thing as other twist. Why didn't she just throw open her clate the fervent strain of social activism ingly consigned to people's records and make herself available to in- that ran through the midcentury, mid- poverty, it is up to so- children,' she Is vestigators long ago if she has done nothing American Methodist Church. "Be doers of ciety to step in. That is fond of saying wrong (page 28)? the word and not hearers only" was a famil- a central message of But the First Lady remains dismissive. iar refrain in her parents' church in Park her new book. She is sensitive that conser- She thinks the persistent questions over Ridge, Ill. For a nice suburban Chicago girl vatives will translate the word "Village" in Whitewater and Travelgate are a nuisance, in the early '60s, that meant volunteering in her title to mean "Big Government." She to be ignored if at all possible. In the late fall the inner city and baby-sitting for migrant talks instead of a "partnership" between of 1993, when the then White House coun- workers. At Yale, her missionary impulse government, churches and charities. But selor David Corgen suggested turning over turned grandiose. Ivy Loague grade grub- she has a program for every problem. "The all Whitewater documents to The Washing- bers who wanted to practice corporate law village can do its part to help [with child ton Post to show that the White House had on Wall Street went to Harvard; idealists nutrition]. The U.S. Department of Agricul- nothing to cover up, it was Mrs. Clinton went to Yale, where they learned to use the ture has started Team Nutrition." she who said no. Some press accounts have law as a tool of social reform. This spirit writes. "The village can do much to give speculated that she had something personal was particularly intense in the Yale of the parents the time they need to establish their to hide. but her intransigence may be moré early Hillary's Yale. It was liberal. children's well-being in the first weeks and basic: she truly believes she has more im- high-minded and suffused with we-know- months of life. The Family and Medical portant things to do. If it is necessary to best paternalism: only courts, not state leg- Leave Act stonewall to protect her larger purposes, islatures. could be trusted to guarantce so- While her policies are classically líberal. then so be it. cial justice. her personal code is quite conservative. She Mrs. Clinton's rightcousness may be Throughout her political and legal career thinks everyone should wait until the age of softened by her girlish good humor, but its Mrs. Clinton has lobbied for children's 21 before having sex. She believes divorce roots run deep. Her zeal was shaped in rights. "There is no such thing as other peo- has been made too easy and that couples large part by two institutions: the Method- plo's children," she likes to say. With fam- should stay together for the sake of the kids. JANUARY 15, 1996 newsweek 23 JAN-08-1996 10:17 415 391 0759 P.07/14 NATIONAL AFFAIRS 'You can't accomplish anything in government unless you win,' Hillary used to say at Wellesley Her views on divorce were tested in a per- than $35,000 a year.) To the outside world. quiet First Lady. In A dutiful sonal way. To stay married, she relates in her commodities trading- $1,000 invest- many of the published campaigner, she her book, she sometimes had to "bite my ment to make $100,000-looks suspiciously accounts about Clin- finds politics tongue." She does not say about what, but cozy. And the family's lost investment in ton's presidency, Hil- distasteful, but a both she and her husband have acknowl- the failed Whitewater land development lary emerges as the means to an end edged rocky times in their marriage, appar- has the smell of a sweet deal turned sour. one who wants to ently caused by reports of his philandering. The Whitewater independent counsel, strike back while her husband dithers. She Still, Hillary stuck it out. In true Protestant Kenneth Starr, may still uncover shady do- agrees that she is generally the one in her fashion, she says, she learned to will herself ings by the First Lady. But Mrs. Clinton family to "cut to the chasc." "I think that's to be grateful for the blessings she did have. seems unrepentant. Although she would true for all women." she told NEWSWEEK. And to make certain compromises. "You never admit it, she may feel that she was Still, in the past year, she has become can't accomplish anything in government relatively restrained in Little Rock, given somewhat more circumspect. Michael Ler- unless you win," Mrs. Clinton would say at the temptations of her position and the cul- ner, the editor of Tikkun Magazine, whose Welleslcy, her undergraduate college. Poli- ture of the place. For a governor's wife who "polities of meaning" she embraced, thinks tics are distasteful, but necessary. During was also a senior partner in a politically she has "backed away" from preaching val- her husband's 1986 re-election campaign, connected law firm, the opportunity for lu- ues. Feminists watch Mrs. Clinton hanging Mrs. Clinton writes that she told her crative deals must have been huge. wreaths with Martha Stewart and wonder daughter, Chelsca: "You know, Daddy is what happened to the woman who wanted going to run for governor again. If he wins ERTAINLY, HILLARY HAS to work and not be a ceremonial First Lady. we would keep living in this house, and he "I miss her," says Gloria Steinem. would keep trying to help people. But first C felt victimized by the storm over Whitewater. Sen. Jay Rockefeller, a close friend of Hil- we have to have an election." "Remind me." she asked lary's, says her book "may be one of her ways One compromise she won't make is to an aide when the scandal of saying 'I'm still here.' but more quietly. I expose Chelsea to the limelight, despite the began to grow after Fos- think it's a decision on her part to be lower obvious political benefits of showing off her ter's death. "have I ever key." But it doesn't mean that her internal family. In the White House, the rule is done anythingrig in my life?" She summed sense of mission has dimmed. When she was "don't even bring it up," says an aide. Mrs. up the unfairness of it all with one of Chel- handed the page proofs of her book after Clinton's fierceness, as well as her pragma- sea's favorite nursery rhymes: "As I was struggling for many late nights to gel it right, tism, shows when it comes to protecting her standing in the street/As quiet as could be/A her eyes welled up. She was overwhelmed family. It has fallen mostly to Hillary to great big ugly man came up/And tied his with pride and determination. The Prom- finance the Clintons' public service. (As horse to me. 'There is an element of denial in ised Land was in sight, if only the rest of us governor, her husband never earned more this self-pity. Mrs. Clinton has hardly been a could see it clearly. 24 NKWSWEEK JANUARY 15, 1996 JAN-08-1996 10:18 415 391 0759 P.08/14 NATIONAL AFFAIRS "The Ground Keeps Shifting' Mrs. Clinton on ethics troubles, Vince Foster-and how she sees herself AST WEEK, HILLARY week worth of work. There is was sent to me and that was the had and always felt bad for kids I L Clinton sat down no way that I think of an hour a first time I knew it was there. went to school with who with NEWSWEEK to week over 15 months as being a seemed like really good kids talk about her new significant amount of work. You never reviewed them at all? who never had any luck. never book. It was also her No. Because it wasn't important had any breaks at all. [They] first extensive interview about One area of confusion Is the doc- tous. Maybe if we had been here needed just a little bit of help Whitewater and Travelgate in uments in Foster's office after for a couple of years, maybe if from somebody-a teacher, a more than a year. The night be- his death. Were you concerned we knew a little bit more about coach. a minister. When I got to fore. the White House had re- about law enforcement having what the possible conspiracies college and law school, I began leased a 1993 memo suggesting unfettered access to them? that could be spun might look to study child development. that Mrs. Clinton had ordered No. No documents were taken like, everybody would have aídes to fire the White House out of Vince Foster's office That was a rough year [in Travel Office-despite her the night he died. And I 1993]: health care went longstanding position that she did not direct anyone to down, Foster died. Was had played an insignificant role interfere with any investi- this book a way to come out in the flap. gation into his death. I of that? don't know how best to I didn't think about it that NEWSWEEK: The memo says, "Fos- convey the level of grief way, but it gave me a lot of ter regularly Informed me that and shock and distress time alone. A lot of times the First Lady was concerned and that I and other people felt I'd be staring at the blank desired action-the action de- at the news. There was no page trying to figure out sired was the firing of the Travel discussion of documents, how I was going to put Office staff." or Whitewater, or any- what I was feeling into MRS. CUNTON: I just don't have any thing like that. That was readable English. Nine- memory of that. What I do re- not what any of us were teen ninety-three was a member is having a conversa- thinking about. personally very challeng- tion with David Watkins, at ing and difficult year, with Vince Foster's suggestion, in But there were documents [the deaths of] my father which Watkins told me that here in the residence for and Vince and my mother- [the accounting firm] Peat Mar- five days. Why were they in-law. So I really did have wick had begun its investigation here if not to review them? to summon up a lot of my into the financial management Because when I was in own resources, and work of the Travel Office. And I Arkansas [at the time of through many of the feel- said, it looks like that's what Foster's suicide] I was ings that I had. should be done. called [and told] that [White House counsel] Do you see yourself as a Do you feel that the Whitewater Bernie Nussbaum was pragmatist or an ideallst? Investigation has become tar- distributing the docu- Gracious but cool, the First Lady speaks I've always thought of my- geted at you? ments out of Vince's office. self as a pragmatist be- I don't know. It's been going on There were personal docu- tried to be more thoughtful or cause a lot of what I believe we a long time. We've tried to co- ments of mine which I didn't dispassionate in the heat of that should do for one another is operate in every way we can even know Vince had. I was moment. very practical. As many kids as because nobody would like this asked what should be done with possible [should] have as good a matter over with more than I them and I said, "Well, send Are you thinking personally of shot as possible, because I don't would. But the ground keeps them to our lawyers." And the testifying at this point? want [Chelsea] to be afraid to go shifting about what it suppos- decision was made that they Well, I'm looking to continue to to a city park with her kids edly is about. couldn't get sent over that day. I cooperate. when she gets older. was asked if there were a place There aren't any simple an- In 1992 you said you had done that they could be stored, and I So you're waiting for a swers. You can't say, "Oh, it's "minimal" work for Madison. But said, "I don't know, talk to some subpoena? the government's fault," and recently, notes taken by Susan of the people in the residence." I'm not going to predict what you can't say, "Oh, it's just these Thomases say you had "numer- And so they were locked up might or might not happen. irresponsible parents living in ous conferences" on the subject. there. It's difficult to keep track the inner city." The responsibil- How do you reconcile that? of all the spider webs that are Your friends talk about your ity is spread all the way across Based on the evidence that spun and the theories and the Methodism and Vale Law School society. But the good news is we've seen, the Rose Law Firm innuendoes. Then they were as important Influences on you. there are things we can do right represented Madison for about picked up by our lawyer and ex- How would you explain what mo- now that could make a differ- 15 months. And over those 15 amined and then an index was tivates you? ence If we would start having months I did about an hour a made of them. And the index I was always grateful for what I that kind of conversation. 26 NEWSWEEK JANUARY 15, 1996 JAN-08-1996 10:19 415 391 0759 P.09/14 Intriguing documents pláce the First Lady ever closer to the heart of the 'Clinton scandals' BY MICHAEL ISIKOFF AND MARK HOSENBALL The billing records In April '94, Hillary took Whitewater Cracks in raise new questions about whether Mrs. questions-but Clinton misled inves- new ones are tigators about her le- surfacing In '96 gal work for James McDougal, the Clinton ally and business partner who ran Madison into the ground. The thrift's collapse cost the taxpayers $60 the Wall million; McDougal goes on trial in March on related fraud charges. One big issue is a Madison land deal with Arkansas busi- nessman Seth Ward. father-in-law of Web- ster Hubbell, the former Rose Law Firm partner who was convicted last year of HE WAY WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS TOLD IT, bilking clients. Federal investigators say the land deal, part of a project called Castle 1 Carolyn Huber was rummaging through some Grande, was a "sham" that contributed to old boxes under a table in her East Wing office Madison's demise. The billing records show that Mrs. Clinton talked to Ward 14 when she spotted something odd-for stashed times while the deal was being put togeth- among the letters and memorabilia was a bun- er. Last year Mrs. Clinton, under oath, told federal regulators sho couldn't recall any- dle of computer printouts. Huber's job at the thing about the project. The notes in Fos- White House is handling Bill and Hillary Clinton's personal ter's handwriting are suggestive, too: con- gressional investigators speculate that the correspondence; before that, in Little Rock, she was office printouts may have been among papers they believe were removed from Foster's manager at the Rose Law Firm when Hil- that was central to Whitewater. Investiga- office shortly after his death. White House lary was a partner there. She realized in- tors searched for these records for nearly aides were unable to explain how the bill- stantly the printouts were billing records two years. Worse, the printouts were cov- ing records wound up in Huber's office. from the firm-and that this batch itemized ered with the late Vince Foster's handwrit- To the obvious delight of congressional Mrs. Clinton's legal work for Madison ing: it is Foster's suicide that lends Republicans, the strange discovery of the Cuaranty savings and loan, the failed thrift Whitewater its aura of menace. Rose Law Firm records was not the only 28 NEWSWEEK JANUARY15, 1996 JAN-08-1996 10:19 415 391 0759 P.10/14 embarrassment to the First Lady last week. dals" may be hard to follow, but the theme even when, in the panicky attempt at dam- A day earlier White House officials re- is increasingly obvious: year after year, her age control after Foster's suicide, she leased a memo written by David Watkins, a friends seem to have been working over- seemed to do the proper thing. That hap- former Little Rock adman who until 1994 time to protect the First Lady. Watkins's pened when his torn-up suicide note was served as the White House's administrative memo suggests that White House staffers belatedly discovered by former White chief. The memo was devastating. It were less than accurate when they told House counsel Bernard Nussbaum and two charged that Mrs. Clinton was the driving Congress Mrs. Clinton played "no role" in aides. Nussbaum tried to show Mrs. Clin- force in Travelgate, the abrupt firing of sev- Travelgate. The Rose Law Firm records ton the note-but according to sworn testi- en career employees in the White House reopen the issue of whether Mrs. Clinton mony, she responded that "she did not un- Travel Office in 1993. Watkins wrote that was entirely candid when she said, in a derstand why she had been brought into the he and Thomas F. (Mack) McLarty, the for- sworn response to federal regulators, that room" and left without looking at it. Nuss- mer White House chief of staff, "both knew her work for Madison had been "minimal." baum and the others omitted that fact in there would be hell to pay if we failed to Though no one accuses Mrs. Clinton of subsequent interviews with the FBI. take swift and decisive action in conformity wrongdoing-and while White House offi- In her NEWSWEEK interview, Mrs. Clin- with the First Lady's wishes." What were cials still insist there are no credible charges ton denied directing any cover-up after those wishes? Notes taken by another aide against her staff-the legal morass is getting Foster's death. She insisted the White show that Susan Thomases Hillary Clin- deeper. The Senate Whitewater committee House has cooperated fully with White- ton's friend and lawyer, bluntly warned is considering asking for perjury charges water investigators and again said her work that "Hillary wants these people fired." As against Susan Thomases and Maggie Wil- for Madison Guaranty was not "signifi- the news media reported at the time, a Clin- liams, Mrs. Clinton's chief of staff, in con- cant." The newly discovered billing records lon friend named Harry Thomason was nection with their testimony about the re- broadly support her statements about the part owner of an air-charter company that moval of documents from Foster's office. A amount of time she spent-though not nec- coveted the White House travel business. House committee has subpoenaed Watkins. essarily the implication that the results "Once this made it onto the First Lady's Newsweek has learned that Watkins told were minor. David Kendall. the Clintons' agenda. Vince Foster became involved, and the FBI in 1993 about a phone call concern- lawyer. was asked by NEWSWEEK whether he and Harry Thomason regularly in- ing the Travel Office in which Mrs. Clinton Mrs. Clinton needed to supplement her formed me of her attention to the Travel said "action needed to be taken immediately previous testimony about her work for Office situation," Watkins wrote. to be certain that those not friendly to the Madison. Kendall said he was reviewing McDougal, Ward, Watkins, Thoma- administration were removed and replaced her sworn statements and would amend son-and, tragically, Vince Foster. The with trustworthy individuals." them if necessary. The odds are he will ever-expanding cast of characters in what And White House lawyers failed to men- have to do so-and that Hillary Clinton Republicans now call "the Clinton scan- tion Mrs. Clinton's peripheral involvement faces tougher questions ahead. THE ARKANSAS PLAYERS The First Family's James McDougal Madison's Beverty Bassett Schaffer In- owner and Clinton Whitewater vestigators are interested in just Troubled Circle partner has said be gave Hillary how much contact Mrs. Clinton legal work at Bill's request. had with this Arkansas regula- Newly released records cast tor-and appointee of Gover- Though Mrs. Clinton has long said doubt on her claim that the work nor Clinton. Both women say it she was only a peripheral figure in was "minimal." was insignificant. Whitewater and the Travel Office Susan McDougal An indicted James Blair Hillary's adviser in firings, new evidence undermines ex-Arkansas judge, David Hale, her cattle-futures killing. Blair claims Bill Clinton pressured also luaned McDongal $1,000 to her claims. Congress and the spe- him to make a small-business buy the Clintons' share of cial prosecutor are investigating. A loan to McDougal's wife. A por- Whitewater after the 1992 elec- tion of this money ended up in tion-and told him to shut up guide to the cast of characters. the Whitewater account. about the land deal, TRAVELGATE WHITEWATER IN WASHINGTON Vincent Foster Hillary's closest Maggie Williams Chief of staff to friend at Rose and a White Mrs. Clinton, Williams's recol- House lawyer, Foster helped lections about what happened tidy up Whitewater for the Clin- to Foster's files after his death tons. His suicide note suggests don't square with what others he was agonizing over Travel- have tostified. Investigators are gate on the day of his death. pursuing the discrepancies. Harry Thomason This David Watkins The for- old Arkansas friend mer Clinton aide took William Kennedy His note at a Susan Thomases Hillary's pal urged Hillary to clean the fall for Travelgate meeting of Clinton lawyers- helped prepare the response to out the office that han- but wrote 8 memo, dis- "Vacuum Rose law files"-is in- the first reports about White- dles presidential press covered last week, triguing investigators. The for- water in '92. Her notes show travel-and his air- claiming the firings mer White House attorney says that Mrs. Clinton's connections charter firm then bid conformed with "the he was referring to 8. gap in the to McDougal were played down for the travel business. First Lady's wishes." files, not a pending cover-up. from the start. LARRY JANUARY 15. 1996 NEWSWEEK 29 JAN-08-1996 10:20 415 391 0759 P.11/14 In her new book, the First Lady draws on her own sometimes difficult experiences to explain how all of us can help raise the country's children 'It Takes V By Hillary Rodham Clinton Yet everywhere we look, children are under assault: from vio- lence and neglect, from the breakup of families, from the tempta- tions of alcohol, tobacco, sex, and drug abuse, from greed. material- ism, and spiritual emptiness. These problems are not new, but in HILDREN ARE NOT RUGGED our time they have skyrocketed. Against this bleak backdrop, the C individualists. They depend on struggle to raise strong children and to support families, emotional- ly as well as practically, has become more fierce. the adults they know and on I have spent much of the past 25 years working to improve the thousands more who make lives of children. My work has taught me that they need more of our time, energy, and resources. But no experience brought home the decisions every day that affect lesson as vividly as becoming a mother myself. When Chelsea their well-being. All of us, Victoria Clinton lay in my arms for the first time, I was over- whelmed by the love and responsibility I felt for her. whether we acknowledge it or not, are Bill and I had wanted to start a family immediately after we responsible for deciding whether our chil- married, in 1975, but we were not having much luck. In 1979, we scheduled an appointment to visit a fertility clinic right after a long- dren are raised in a nation that doesn't just awaited vacation. Lo and behold, I got pregnant during that vaca- espouse family values but values families. tion. (I have often remarked to my husband that we might have had more children if we had taken more vacations!) 30 JAN-08-1996 10:21 415 391 0759 P.12/14 In Newark, N.J., our daily lives and fed us with her devotion, reaching out imagination, and great spirit. My parents also to a favorite had a lot of help from the village in raising my constituency- brothers and me. Grandparents, aunts, un- schoolchildren cles, and cousins all pitched in if illness or some other misfortune strained the family. And plenty of, other adults-from librarians to crossing guards to Scout leaders-looked out for us. Those who urge a return to the values of the 1950s are yearning for the kind of family and neighborhood I grew up in and for the feelings of togetherness they engendered. I understand that nostal- gia. I feel it myself when the world seems too much to take. There were many good things about our way of life back then. But our past was not so picture-perfect. Ask African-American children who grew up in a segregated society, or immigrants who struggled to survive in sweatshops and tenements, or women whose life choices were circumscribed and whose work was underpaid. Ask those who grew up in the picture-perfect houses about the secrets and desperation they sometimes concealed. The longing for "the way things used to be" also obscures the larger settings in which the family funds itself today, as it struggles with broken homes, discrimination, economic downturns, urban- ization, consumerism, and technology. Here are some of the chal- lenges we face-and a few ways to overcome them. On Divorce: The instability of American households today poses great risks to the healthy development of children. The divorce rate has been falling slowly, but for a high proportion of marriages, "till BALPH KOUSE death do us part" means "until the going gets rough." My strong feelings about divorce have caused me to bite my tongue more than a few times during my own marriage and to think instead about what 1 could do to be a better wife and partner. My husband has done the same. I am not saying that there are not reasons for divorce. The abuse and violence Bill's mother, Virginia Kelley. experienced is some- thing no parent or child should endure. But people with children need to ask what more they can do before they call it quits. When children are involved, we should consider returning to mandatory "cooling off" periods, with education and counseling. illage' On Pre-Natal Care: There I was, lying in my hospital bed, try- ing desperately to figure out how to breast-feed. I had been trained to study everything forward. backward, and upside down before reaching a conclusion. It seemed to me I ought to be able to figure this out. As I looked on in horror. Chelsea started to foam at the nose. I thought she was strangling or having convulsions. Franti- cally, I pushed every buzzer there was to push. A nurse appeared promptly. She assessed the situation calmly. Parents bear the first and primary responsibility for their sons then, suppressing a smile, said, "It would help if you held her head and daughters-to feed them, to sing them to sleep. to make up a bit, like this." Chelsea was taking in my milk, but because of countless daily decisions that determine whom they have the po- the awkward way I held her, she was breathing it out of her nose! tential to become. But children exist in the world as well. From the Like many women, I had read books when I was pregnant- moment they are born. they depend on a host of other "grown- wonderful books filled with dos and don'ts about what babies need ups"-grandparents, neighbors, teachers, ministers, employers. in the first months and years to ensure the proper development of political leaders, and untold others who touch their lives. Each of their bodies, brains, and characters. But as every parent soon us plays a part in every child's life. As an old African proverb says: discovers, grasping concepts in the abstract and knowing what to It takes a village to raise a child. do with the baby in your hands are two radically different things. I grew up in a family that looked like it was straight out of the And as a nation, we are not paying enough attention to what ought 1950s television sitcom "Father Knows Best." Hugh Ellsworth to be our highest priority: educating and empowering people to be Rodham, my father, was a self-sufficient, tough-minded small- the best parents possible. Education and empowerment start with businessman who ran a plant that screen-printed and sold drapery giving them the means and encouragement to plan pregnancy itself, fabrics. He worked hard and never encountered a serious financial so that they have the physical, financial, and emotional resources to setback. But like many who came of age during the Great Depres- support their children. sion, he constantly worried that he might. Openness about sexuality and availability of contraception in My mother assumed an equally traditional role, providing the most Western European countries are credited with lowering rates unlimited affection and encouragement that smoothed our path of unintended pregnancy and abortion. By contrast, more than 100 and balanced the pressures my father imposed. She organized million women around the world still cannot obtain or are not JANUARY 15, 1996 newsweek 31 JAN-08-1996 10:21 415 391 0759 P. 13/14 NATIONAL AFFAIRS I understand the nostalgia for the America of the 1950s. I feel it myself. But our past was not so picture-perfect TB# WHITE HOUSE using family planning services because they are poor, uneducated, unable to. The sad fact is Americans have At home In the or lack access to care. Twenty million women seek unsafe abortions never sufficiently valued the work of caring for Chicago suburbs, each year. children. This is due in part to our nation's long 1955: Hillary (far We may think our country is far from this end of the spectrum, ambivalence about whether surrogate child left), her parents but statistics tell a different story. Two in five American teenage care is acceptable. And Americans continue to and brother Tony girls become pregnant by age 20, and 1.5 million abortions are be divided over what rule, if any, the federal performed in America each year. It is a national shame that many government should play in helping working parents pay for it. Americans are more thoughtful about planning their weekend entertainment than about planning their families. On Intelligence and Education: Recent discoveries in neuro- We also know that women who receive pre-natal care, especially science, molecular biology, and psychology have given researchers in the first trimester, are more likely to deliver healthy. full-term a whole new understanding of when and how the human brain babies, while women who do not receive adequate pre-natal care develops. Above all, this new information makes clear that a child's are more than twice as likely to give birth to babies weighing less character and potential are not already determined at birth. Dr. than five and a half pounds, the definition of "low birth weight." Frederick Goodwin, former director of the National Institute of Mental Health. cites studies in which children "at risk" for devel- On Health Care and Day Care: There's probably no area of opmental problems were exposed at an carly age to stimulating our lives that better illustrates the connection between the village environments. The children's IQ scores increased by as much as 20 and the individual and between mutual and personal responsibility points. Bear this research in mind when you listen to those who than health care. Today there are more than 10 million children, argue that our nation cannot afford to implement comprehensive most with working parents, who do not have health insurance. The early education programs for disadvantaged children and their rate will accelerate even more if Congress enacts proposed cut- families. If we as a village decide not to help families develop their backs in Medicaid. children's brains, then at least let us admit that we are acting not on Some families who can afford to pay for private insurance are the evidence but according to a different agenda. unable to find coverage. In Cleveland, Ohio, 1 met a couple who have After a dozen years of involvement in education reform. I'm two daughters with cystic fibrosis. The family could afford private convinced that the biggest obstacles many students face are the low insurance, but no one was willing to sell them a policy because of the expectations we have of them and their schools. And nowhere is girls' conditions. They repeated to me the words of one insurance the partnership of parents and the rest of the village more crucial to agent-words I will never forget. "What you don't understand," the the schools than in the expectation that discipline and order are agent told them. "is that we don't insure burning houses." necessary for learning. I agree with those who advocate dress I find this attitude deplorable. And if we are willing to write off codes and even uniforms in some districts because they appear to these children, whose will be next? Scientists will soon be able to diminish the frictions caused by brand-name consumerism and tell us which of Our genes predispose us to cancer or diabetes or gang identification. other serious diseases. Will those who carry such genes and the And after so many years of working with and listening to Ameri- children we pass them on to eventually be denied insurance, too? can adolescents, I also don't believe they are ready for sex or its If you want to open the floodgates of guilt and dissension any- potential consequences-parenthood, abortion, sexually transmit- where in America, start talking about child care. It is an issue that led diseases-and I think we need to do everything in our power to brings out all of our conflicted feelings about what parenthood discourage sexual activity and encourage abstinence. This means should be and about who should care for children when parents are adult support, including the time it takes to organize gatherings for kids, instead of turning them loose in malls, video arcades, or the From "IT TAKES A VILLAGE And Other Lessons Children Teach streets. Homes, schools, churches, and communities should pro- Us," by Hillary Rodham Clinton. To be published by Simon & vide havens for kids who want an alternative. Schuster, Inc. Copyright © 1996 by Hillary Rodham Clinton. These same entities have to pitch in when it comes to educating 32 newsweek JANUARY 15, 1996 JAN-08-1996 10:22 415 391 0759 P.14/14 For the sake of our children, let us use government, as we have in the past, to further the common good kids about sex. The available evidence does not support fears that sa's orphanage in New Delhi-and were presented with frequent direct discussion of sexual behavior increases sexual activity; rath- opportunities to reflect on what it means to be an American. Many eT, it suggests many adolescents become sexually active without of the people we met told us how much they admired our country. having had any formal sex education at all. And no matter how When Americans are reminded of the bounty and protection we great an effort adults make to convince young people to abstain, enjoy, most of us are grateful. Our gratitude has its roots in a view there will be some who are determined to embark on sexual of government that dates back to the Pilgrims. In this view, govern- experience. They need straight talk about contraception and sexu- ment is an instrument both to promote the common good and to ally transmitted diseases to help them deal responsibly with the protect the individual's rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of consequences of their actions. I do wish we would all take a deep breath and remember that sex happiness. By the 1980s, however, faced with mounting economic and social has been around for a long. long time and we are all here because of problems, Americans began to question the ability of government it. It is an important part of who we are and how we live, and there to solve them. Many began to believe government itself was should be no shame in our children's curiosity about it. If we could the problem. Even those of us who are mindful of the progress we accept that, we could begin talking to children, as soon as they have made through government recognize that there are limits to could understand what we were saying. about the importance of what it can do. honoring their bodies and entering into relationships responsibly. At present, the extreme anti-government position is the noisiest one-or at least the one that gets the most attention from the media. On Gender Stereotyping: The attempt to attach labels to our Anti-government rhetoric appears to offer a vision of greater effi- lives takes us backward. Whenever we pose women's options as an ciency, self-reliance, and personal freedom. (For obvious reasons, it "either/or" choice-most commonly between work and family- also usually enjoys greater financial backing and better-organized we do a disservice all around. In earlier generations, we lost artists, support.) Unfortunately. this rhetoric argues against the excesses of doctors, and engineers. My generation lost good mothers and government but not against those of the marketplace, where there is dedicated community volunteers among women who did not see great power to disrupt the lives of workers, families, and communi- a way to combine their work life with making a home or nurtur- ties. It even argues against the basic protections government extends ing a family. to the well-being of individuals, families, and communities, without I have had my own experiences with the power of stereotypes, offering an alternative way of safeguarding them. In fact, its extreme most notably when the response I gave to a reporter's question case against government, often including intense personal attacks on during the 1992 campaign led to the infamous cookies-and-tea government officials and political leaders, is designed to advance tempest. I had understood the question to refer to the ceremonial narrow religious, political, and economic agendas. role of a public official's spouse, and I replied that I had chosen to For the sake of our children, we ought to pursue my law practice while my husband was governor rather than The first time she call an end to false debates between values stay home as an official hostess, serving cookies and tea to guests. held Chelsea in and policies. Both personal and mutual re- Now, the fact is, I've made my share of cookies and served her arms, Hillary sponsibility are essential, and we should hundreds of cups of tea. But I never thought that made me a good, recalls, 'I was work to strengthen them at all levels of soci- bad, or indifferent mother, or a good or bad person. So it never overwhelmed' ety. Let us admit that some government pro- occurred to me that my comment grams and personnel are efficient and effective, and others are not. would be taken as insulting moth- Let us acknowledge that when it ers (I guess including my own!) comes to the treatment of chil- who choose to stay home with their children full-time. Nor did it dren. some individuals are evil, occur to me that the next day's neglectful. or incompetent, but headlines would reduce me to an others are trying to do the best anti-family-"career woman." they can against daunting odds I learned from the episode that and deserve the help only we- when I am asked a question that through our government-can relates to me personally, my an- provide. Let us use government, swer may be measured by how as we have in the past, to further people feel about the choices the common good. they've made in their own lives. Nothing is more important to But the incident also highlight- our shared future than the well- ed the energy that is wasted on being of children. For children are at our core-not only as vul- sniping over women's and men's nerable beings in need of love choices and on stereotyping. and care but as a moral touch- stone amidst the complexity and IN THE SPRING OF 1995. CHEL- sea and I traveled together contentiousness of modern life. through South Asia. As the moth- Just as it takes a village to raise a er of a teenager, I felt very lucky child. it takes children to raise up indeed that my 15-year-old was a village to become all it should willing to spend 10 days with me. be. The village we build with them in mind will be a better We had an unforgettable time- including a visit to Mother Tere- place for us all. january 15, 1996 newsweek 33 TOTAL P.14 JAN-08-1996 10:13 415 391 0759 P.02/14 Newsweek ® lills 03 3 D 706288 01134 EXCLUSIVE: Excerpts From Hillary Rodham Clinton's New Book-And - a Candid Interview on the White House Scandals Saint Sinner? 9661-80-NHC 10:14 NATIONAL AFFAIRS Long infused with missionary zeal, Hillary Clinton is determined to do good as she sees it-at virtually any cost. But will her campaign for children be overshadowed by scandal? BY MARTHA BRANT AND EVAN THOMAS First Fighter ILLARY CLINTON SPENT NEW YEAR'S EVE IN A SAFE H place, a hotel ballroom in Hilton Head, S.C., sur- rounded by a thousand soulmates sworn to secrecy. She had come with her husband, for the 12th straight year, to Renaissance Weekend to share and care with people who believe in social uplift and the power of ideas. For nearly an hour, she went on about her deepest concerns: pro- viding economic opportunity for women throughout the world, protect- ing New Deal and Great Society programs from rapacious Republicans, saving children everywhere. She got 50 involved ably asking about the latest revelations. Graceful- that she seemed to almost forget to introduce her ly, if not always completely, she answered, deny- husband, whose speaking time had been cut back ing any wrongdoing. She bridled only once, at the to about half an hour before the toasts and hugs at word "subpoena," as in: Will it take a subpoena to midnight. get her to testify before Sen. Al D'Amato's A few days later, the First Lady was back in Whitewater committee? "I'm not going to pre- more forbidding territory: her home in Washing- dict," she coolly demurred. Her smile returning. ton, where news of ongoing White House scan- she changed the subject back to saving children. dals-Travelgate and Whitewater-dominated. Hillary Clinton has enor- A tireless Sitting in the third-floor solarium of the White mous self-control. She will advocate, Mrs. House Residence, she was pleasant and gracious need it. Last week D'Amato Clinton has never with a couple of reporters from Newsweek who was brandishing Rose Law been a traditional had ostensibly come to talk to her about her new Firm billing records-long First Lady book, "It Takes a Village," but who were predict- under subpoena, but long JEFF 20 NEWSWEEK JANUARY 15. 1996 P.04/14 415 391 0759 E THE R THE the JAN-08-1996 10:14 K JAN-08-1996 10:16 415 391 0759 P.05/14 NATIONAL AFFAIRS 'Be doers of the word and not hearers only' was the familiar Methodist refrain of her childhood missing-that detailed Mrs. Clinton's con- sweet and homey how-to guide to child 'Mrs. Clinton's immediate world is a mix troversial work for Madison Guaranty, a rearing. and partly a policy-wonk discus- of fluff and hardball. To hear her aides talk, failed Arkansas savings and loan connected sion of seemingly every child-development life in what they call "Hillaryland" is like to Whitewater. This came just a day after a program of the past three decades. Republi- one big pajama party, albeit in the girls' self-described "soul cleansing" memo from cans will scoft at it: Supermom vying to dorm of a progressive religious college in a former White House staffer surfaced that outdo the GOP as chief defender of family the 1950s. The First Lady loves decorating made it appear that the First Lady had values. Actually. the book is a fair reflection and dressing up, sometimes goofily. This played a far more central role in Travelgate of who Mrs. Clinton is and what she stands Christmas, she was seen wandering around than she had carlier acknowledged. "I just for. It is closer to the "real Hillary" than all wearing a necklace of flashing holiday don't have any memory of that," she told the familiar press cartoons. lights. She enjoyed hanging a wreath with Newsweek (page 26). The First Lady's social activism is not a hyper-homemaker Martha Stewart "I wish This week, as she kicks off her book tour, pose; she is dead serious. Her code is I could tell you she doesn't like that stuff, Americans will once again be trying to simple: "We are all here to help someone but she does," says Verveer. To her staffers, figure out who Hillary Clinton really is. else," says Melanne Verveer, one of her top she is corny and a "bit of a prude," says one. After the collapse of her campaign to re- aides. "She believes that to the core of her Dressed in blue jeans and a ponytail after- make the nation's health-care system, she being." If Mrs. Clinton had lived in the 19th hours at the White House, wearing her was thought to have retreated into the role century, she might have saved souls in Afri- thick Coke-bottle glasses, she will use ex- pressions like "Okey-dokey, artichokey," and ask, "What's up, buttercup?" She loves to sing, though she can't carry a tune. HE IS THE "BIG GIRL" IN THE S "Big House" in the affection- ate jargon of her aides (almost all of whom are female). Her staff is the most faithful in Washington. She fusses over them. asking about their chil- dren and their love lives and enjoying their jokes with a loud horsy laugh. But she re- veals less of herself. "I was raised not to talk about myself," she has told aides. And she is incredibly demanding. A perfection- ist-but a computer illiterate-she will call a staffer late at night to ask how to operate a fax machine. She expects absolute loyalty, and she gets it. Although her husband's staff is notorious for its turnover, only two of FOR Mrs. Clinton's 16 staffers have left, one be- FICARA cause her mother was sick. Her more easy- going friends sometimes wonder how Hil- KIRIN lary could,be so close to Susan Thomases, a tough-talking, take-no-prisoners New York of a more traditional First Lady, visiting ca. It is not a coinci- After health care, litigator. The short answer, they under- hospitals and worrying about her hairdo. In dence that she relish- she became more stand, is that Thomases would do "any" truth, her hairstyles changed more than her es traveling through circumspect- thing" for Hillary. agenda. She is, and always has been, a mis- the developing world, but has never But loyalty to Hillary Clinton can be cost- sionary. Her all-consuming task is to do proselytizing about lacked a mission ly. The Clintons built a bunker when they good as she sees it, especially for children. children's rights and arrived in Washington, and the atmosphere She has been called everything from "Saint basking in the adoration of women. of suspicion and the press, of Con- Hillary" by her fans to the worst kind of Understanding her sense of mission is gress, and occasionally of Mrs. Clinton her- sinner by her enemies, but in fact the two critical to resolving the apparent paradoxes self-wore down their closest aides. When are not mutually exclusive. The same zeal of her character and behavior. Hillary's do- Hillary's best friend, deputy White House that is so impressive in her fight for worthy good energy can make her warm, open and counsel Vincent Foster, shot himself six causes can also lead her (at best) to be politi- generous. It can also make her fierce. pro- months into the new administration, he was cally insensitive and (at worst) to be ruth- tective and suspicious to the point of para- agonizing over what he felt was his person- less about getting her way. noia. Above all, it makes her a fighter-"ar al failure to ward off scandal. Since then, Mrs. Clinton's latest vehicle is her book, advocate," she calls herself-who will let several of Mrs. Clinton's aides, including which she will be flogging on an 11-city nothing stop her, particularly not D'Amato chief of staff Maggie Williams, have run up media swing. "It Takes a Village" (the title or vocal critics like the editorial writers of hefty legal fees testifying before various in- is taken from an African proverb) is partly a The Wall Street Journal. vestigators. They are uncomplaining. but 22 NEWSWEEK JANUARY 15, 1996 not a few of their friends wonder why Mrs. ist Church and Yale Law School. It is hard. ilies breaking down 'There is no such Clinton is allowing her aides to slowly in a more selfish and secular time, to appre- and children increas- thing as other twist. Why didn't she just throw open her clate the fervent strain of social activism ingly consigned to people's records and make herself available to in- that ran through the midcentury, mid- poverty, it is up to so- children,' she Is vestigators long ago if she has done nothing American Methodist Church. "Be doers of ciety to step in. That is fond of saying wrong (page 28)? the word and not hearers only" was a famil- a central message of But the First Lady remains dismissive. iar refrain in her parents' church in Park her new book. She is sensitive that conser- She thinks the persistent questions over Ridge, III. For a nice suburban Chicago girl vatives will translate the word "Village" in Whitewater and Travelgate are a nuisance, in the early '60s, that meant volunteering in her title to mean "Big Covernment." She to be ignored if at all possible. In the late fall the inner city and baby-sitting for migrant talks instead of a "partnership" between of 1993, when the then White House coun- workers. At Yale, her missionary impulse government, churches and charities. But selor David Cergen suggested turning over turned grandiose. Ivy League grade grub- she has a program for every problem. "The all Whitewater documents to The Washing- bers who wanted to practice corporate law village can do its part to help [with child ton Post to show that the White House had on Wall Street went to Harvard; idealists nutrition]. The U.S. Department of Agricul- nothing to cover up, it was Mrs. Clinton went to Yale, where they learned to use the ture has started Team Nutrition." she who said no. Some press accounts have law as a tool of social reform. This spirit writes. "The village can do much to give speculated that she had something personal was particularly intense in the Yale of the parents the time they need to establish their to hide. but her intransigence may be moré early 1970s-Hillary's Yale. It was liberal. children's well-being in the first weeks and basic: she truly believes she has more im- high-minded and suffused with we-know- months of life. The Family and Medical portant things to do. If it is necessary to best paternalism: only courts, not state leg- Leave Act stonewall to protect her larger purposes, islatures. could be trusted to guarantee so- While her policies are classically liberal. then so be it. cial justice. her personal code is quite conservative. She Mrs. Clinton's rightcousness may be Throughout her political and legal career thinks everyone should wait until the age of softened by her girlish good humor, but its Mrs. Clinton has lobbied for children's 21 before having sex. She believes divorce roots run deep. Her zeal was shaped in rights. "There is no such thing as other peo- has been made too easy and that couples large part by two institutions: the Method- ple's children," she likes to say. With fam- should stay together for the sake of the kids. JANUARY 15, 1996 NEWSWEEK 23 JAN-08-1996 10:17 415 391 0759 P.07/14 NATIONAL AFFAIRS 'You can't accomplish anything in government unless you win,' Hillary used to say at Wellesley Her views on divorce were tested in a per- than $35,000 a year.) To the outside world, quiet First Lady. In A dutiful sonal way. To stay married, she relates in her commodities trading-- $1,000 invest- many of the published campaigner, she her book, she sometimes had to "bite my ment to make $100,000-looks suspiciously accounts about Clin- finds politics tongue." She does not say about what, but cozy. And the family's lost investment in ton's presidency, Hil- distasteful, but a both she and her husband have acknowl- the failed Whitewater land development lary emerges as the means to an end edged rocky times in their marriage, appar- has the smell of a sweet deal turned sour. one who wants to ently caused by reports of his philandering. The Whitewater independent counsel, strike back while her husband dithers. She Still, Hillary stuck it out. In true Protestant Kenneth Starr, may still uncover shady do- agrees that she is generally the one in her fashion, she says, she learned to will herself ings by the First Lady But Mrs. Clinton family to "cut to the chase." "I think that's to be grateful for the blessings she did have. seems unrepentant. Although she would true for all women," she told Newsweek. And to make certain compromises. "You never admit it, she may feel that she was Still, in the past year, she has become can't accomplish anything in government relatively restrained in Little Rock, given somewhat more circumspect. Michael Ler- unless you win," Mrs. Clinton would say at the temptations of her position and the cul- ner, the editor of Tikkun Magazine, whose Wellesley, her undergraduate college. Poli- ture of the place. For a governor's wife who "polities of meaning" she embraced, thinks tics are distasteful, but necessary. During was also a senior partner in a politically she has "backed away" from preaching val- her husband's 1986 re-election campaign, connected law firm, the opportunity for lu- ues. Feminists watch Mrs. Clinton hanging Mrs. Clinton writes that she told her crative deals must have been huge. wreaths with Martha Stewart and wonder daughter, Chelsea: "You know, Daddy is what happened to the woman who wanted going to run for governor again. If he wins ERTAINLY, HILLARY HAS to work and not be a ceremonial First Lady. we would keep living in this house, and he "I miss her," says Gloria Steinem. would keep trying to help people. But first C felt victimized by the storm over Whitewater. Sen. Jay Rockefeller, a close friend of Hil- we have to have an election." "Remind me." she asked lary's, says her book "may be one of her ways One compromise she won't make is to an aide when the scandal of saying 'I'm still here,' but more quietly. I expose Chelsea to the limelight, despite the began to grow after Fos- think it's a decision on her part to be lower obvious political benefits of showing off her ter's death, "have I ever key." But it doesn't mean that her internal family. In the White House, the rule is done anything right in my life?" She summed sense of mission has dimmed. When she was "don't even bring it up," says an aide. Mrs. up the unfairness of it all with one of Chel- handed the page proofs of her book after Clinton's fierceness, as well as her pragma- sea's favorite nursery rhymes: "As I was struggling for many late nights to get it right, tism, shows when it comes to protecting her standing in the street/As quiet as could be/A her eyes welled up. She was overwhelmed family. It has fallen mostly to Hillary to great big ugly man came up/And tied his with pride and determination. The Prom- finance the Clintons' public service. (As horse to me. "There is an element of denial in ised Land was in sight, if only the rest of us governor, her husband never earned more this self-pity. Mrs. Clinton has hardly been a could see it clearly. 24 NEWSWEEK january 15, 1996 JAN-08-1996 10:18 415 391 0759 P.08/14 NATIONAL AFFAIRS "The Ground Keeps Shifting' Mrs. Clinton on ethics troubles, Vince Foster-and how she sees herself AST WEEK, HILLARY week worth of work. There is was sent to me and that was the had and always felt bad for kids I L Clinton sat down no way that I think of an hour a first time I knew it was there. went to school with who with NEWSWEEK to week over 15 months as being a seemed like really good kids talk about her new significant amount of work. You never reviewed them at all? who never had any luck, never book. It was also her No. Because it wasn't important had any breaks at all. [They] first extensive interview about One area of confusion Is the doc- tous. Maybe if we had been here needed just a little bit of help Whitewater and Travelgate in uments in Foster's office after for a couple of years, maybe if from somebody-a teacher, a more than a year. The night be- his death. Were you concerned we knew a little bit more about coach, a minister. When I got to fore. the White House had re- about law enforcement having what the possible conspiracies college and law school, I began leased a 1993 memo suggesting unfettered access to them? that could be spun might look to study child development. that Mrs. Clinton had ordered No. No documents were taken like, everybody would have aides to fire the White House out of Vince Foster's office That was a rough year [in Travel Office-despite her the night he died. And I 1993]: health care went longstanding position that she did not direct anyone to down, Foster died. Was had played an insignificant role interfere with any investi- this book a way to come out in the flap. gation into his death. I of that? don't know how best to I didn't think about it that NEWSWEEK: The memo says, "Fos- convey the level of grief way, but it gave me a lot of ter regularly informed me that and shock and distress time alone. A lot of times the First Lady was concerned and that I and other people felt rd be staring at the blank desired action-the action de- at the news. There was no page trying to figure out sired was the firing of the Travel discussion of documents, how I was going to put Office staff." or Whitewater, or any- what I was feeling into MRS. CLINTON: I just don't have any thing like that. That was readable English. Nine- memory of that. What I do re- not what any of us were teen ninety-three was a member is having a conversa- thinking about. personally very challeng- tion with David Watkins, at ing and difficult year, with Vince Foster's suggestion, in But there were documents [the deaths of] my father which Watkins told me that here in the residence for and Vince and my mother- [the accounting firm] Peat Mar- five days. Why were they in-law. So I really did have wick had begun its investigation here if not to review them? to summon up a lot of my into the financial management Because when I was in own resources, and work of the Travel Office. And I Arkansas [at the time of through many of the feel- said, it looks like that's what Foster's suicide] I was ings that I had. should be done. called [and told] that [White House counsel] Do you see yourself as a Do you feel that the Whitewater Bernie Nussbaum was pragmatist or an ideallst? Investigation has become tar- distributing the docu- Gracious but cool, the First Lady speaks I've always thought of my- geted at you? ments out of Vince's office. self as a pragmatist be- I don't know. It's been going on There were personal docu- tried to be more thoughtful or cause a lot of what I believe we a long time. We've tried to co- ments of mine which I didn't dispassionate in the heat of that should do for one another is operate in every way we can even know Vince had. I was moment. very practical. As many kids as because nobody would like this asked what should be done with possible [should] have as good a matter over with more than I them and I said, "Well, send Are you thinking personally of shot as possible, because I don't would. But the ground keeps them to our lawyers." And the testifying at this point? want [Chelsea] to be afraid to go shifting about what it suppos- decision was made that they Well, I'm looking to continue to to a city park with her kids edly is about. couldn't get sent over that day. I cooperate. when she gets older. was asked if there were a place There aren't any simple an- In 1992 you said you had done that they could be stored, and I So you're waiting for a swers. You can't say, "Oh, it's "minimal" work for Madison. But said, "I don't know, talk to some subpoena? the government's fault," and recently, notes taken by Susan of the people in the residence." I'm not going to predict what you can't say, "Oh, it's just these Thomases say you had "numer- And so they were locked up might or might not happen. irresponsible parents living in ous conferences" on the subject. there. It's difficult to keep track the inner city." The responsibil- How do you reconcile that? of all the spider webs that are Your friends talk about your ity is spread all the way across Based on the evidence that spun and the theories and the Methodism and Yale Law School society. But the good news is we've seen. the Rose Law Firm innuendoes. Then they were as important Influences on you. there are things we can do right represented Madison for about picked up by our lawyer and ex- How would you explain what mo- now that could make a differ- 15 months. And over those 15 amined and then an index was tivates you? ence If we would start having months I did about an hour a made of them. And the index I was always grateful for what I that kind of conversation. 26 NEWSWEEK JANUARY 15, 1996 JAN-08-1996 10:19 415 391 0759 P.09/14 Intriguing documents place the First Lady ever closer to the heart of the 'Clinton scandals' BY MICHAEL ISIKOFF AND MARK HOSENBALL The billing records in April '94, Hillary took Whitewater Cracks in raise new questions about whether Mrs. questions-but Clinton misled inves- new ones are tigators about her le- surfacing In '96 gal work for James McDougal, the Clinton ally and business partner who ran Madison into the ground. The thrift's collapse cost the taxpayers $60 the Wall million; McDougal goes on trial in March on related fraud charges. One big issue is a Madison land deal with Arkansas busi- nessman Seth Ward. father-in-law of Web- ster Hubbell, the former Rose Law Firm partner who was convicted last year of HE WAY WHITE HOUSE OFFICIALS TOLD IT, bilking clients. Federal investigators say the land deal, part of a project called Castle 1 Carolyn Huber was rummaging through some Grande, was a "sham" that contributed to old boxes under a table in her East Wing office Madison's demise. The billing records show that Mrs. Clinton talked to Ward 14 when she spotted something odd-for stashed times while the deal was being put togeth- among the letters and memorabilia was a bun- er. Last year Mrs. Clinton, under oath. told federal regulators she couldn't recall any- dle of computer printouts. Huber's job at the thing about the project. The notes in Fos- White House is handling Bill and Hillary Clinton's personal ter's handwriting are suggestive, too: con- gressional investigators speculate that the correspondence; before that, in Little Rock, she was office printouts may have been among papers they believe were removed from Foster's manager at the Rose Law Firm when Hil- that was central to Whitewater. Investiga- office shortly after his death. White House lary was a partner there. She realized in- tors searched for these records for nearly aides were unable to explain how the bill- stantly the printouts were billing records two years. Worse, the printouts were cov- ing records wound up in Huber's office. from the firm-and that this batch itemized ered with the late Vince Foster's handwrit- To the obvious delight of congressional Mrs. Clinton's legal work for Madison ing: it is Foster's suicide that lends Republicans, the strange discovery of the Cuaranty savings and loan, the failed thrift Whitewater ito aura of menace. Rose Law Firm records was not the only 28 NEWSWEEK JANUARY 15. 1996 JAN-08-1996 10:19 415 391 0759 P.10/14 embarrassment to the First Lady last week. dals" may be hard to follow, but the theme even when, in the panicky attempt at dam- A day earlier White House officials re- is increasingly obvious: year after year, her age control after Foster's suicide, she leased a memo written by David Watkins, a friends seem to have been working over- seemed to do the proper thing. That hap- former Little Rock adman who until 1994 time to protect the First Lady. Watkins's pened when his torn-up suicide note was served as the White House's administrative memo suggests that White House staffers belatedly discovered by former White chief. The memo was devastating. It were less than accurate when they told House counsel Bernard Nussbaum and two charged that Mrs. Clinton was the driving Congress Mrs. Clinton played "no role" in aides. Nussbaum tried to show Mrs. Clin- force in Travelgate, the abrupt firing of sev- Travelgate. The Rose Law Firm records ton the note-but according to sworn testi- en career employees in the White House reopen the issue of whether Mrs. Clinton mony, she responded that "she did not un- Travel Office in 1993. Watkins wrote that was entirely candid when she said, in a derstand why she had been brought into the he and Thomas F. (Mack) McLarty, the for- sworn response to federal regulators, that room" and left without looking at it. Nuss- mer White House chief of staff, "both knew her work for Madison had been "minimal." baum and the others omitted that fact in there would be hell to pay if we failed to Though no one accuses Mrs. Clinton of subsequent interviews with the FBL take swift and decisive action in conformity wrongdoing-and while White House offi- In her NEWSWEEK interview, Mrs. Clin- with the First Lady's wishes." What were cials still insist there are no credible charges ton denied directing any cover-up after those wishes? Notes taken by another aide against her staff-the legal morass is getting Foster's death. She insisted the White show that Susan Thomases, Hillary Clin- deeper. The Senate Whitewater committee House has cooperated fully with White- ton's friend and lawyer, bluntly warned is considering asking for perjury charges water investigators and again said her work that "Hillary wants these people fired." As against Susan Thomases and Maggie Wil- for Madison Guaranty was not "signifi- the news media reported at the time, a Clin- liams, Mrs. Clinton's chief of staff, in con- cant." The newly discovered billing records lon friend named Harry Thomason was nection with their testimony about the re- broadly support her statements about the part owner of an air-charter company that moval of documents from Foster's office. A amount of time she spent-though not nec- coveted the White House travel business. House committee has subpoenaed Watkins. essarily the implication that the results "Once this made it onto the First Lady's NEWSWEEK has learned that Watkins told were minor. David Kendall, the Clintons' agenda. Vince Foster became involved, and the FBI in 1993 about a phone call concern- lawyer, was asked by NEWSWEEK whether he and Harry Thomason regularly in- ing the Travel Office in which Mrs. Clinton Mrs. Clinton needed to supplement her formed me of her attention to the Travel said "action needed to be taken immediately previous testimony about her work for Office situation," Watkins wrote. to be certain that those not friendly to the Madison. Kendall said he was reviewing McDougal, Ward, Watkins, Thoma- administration were removed and replaced her sworn statements and would amend son-and, tragically, Vince Foster. The with trustworthy individuals." them if necessary. The odds are he will ever-expanding cast of characters in what And White House lawyers failed to men- have to do so-and that Hillary Clinton Republicans now call "the Clinton scan- tion Mrs. Clinton's peripheral involvement faces tougher questions ahead. THE ARKANSAS PLAYERS The First Family's James McDougal Madison's Beverly Bassett Schaffer In- owner and Clinton Whitewater vestigators are interested in just Troubled Circle partner has said he gave Hillary how much contact Mrs. Clinton legal work at Bill's request. had with this Arkansas regula- Newly released records cast tor-and appointee of Gover- Though Mrs. Clinton has long said doubt on her claim that the work nor Clinton. Both women say it she was only a peripheral figure in was "minimal." was insignificant. Whitewater and the Travel Office Susan McDougal An indicted James Blair Hillary's adviser in firings, new evidence undermines ex-Arkansas judge. David Hale. her cattle-futures killing. Blair claims Bill Clinton pressured also loaned McDougal $1,000 to her claims. Congress and the spe- him to make a small-business buy the Clintons' share of cial prosecutor are investigating. A loan to McDougal's wife. A por- Whitewater after the 1992 elec- tion of this money ended up in tion-and told him to shut up guide to the cast of characters. the Whitewater account. about the land deal, TRAVELGATE WHITEWATER IN WASHINGTON Vincent Foster Hillary's closest Maggie Williams Chief of staff to friend at Rose and a White Mrs. Clinton, Williams's recol- House lawyer, Foster helped lections about what happened tidy up Whitewater for the Clin- to Foster's files after his death tons. His suicide note suggests don't square with what others he was agonizing over Travel- have testified. Investigators are gate on the day of his death. pursuing the discrepancies. Harry Thomason This David Watkins The for- old Arkansas friend mer Clinton aide took William Kennedy His note at a Susan Thomases Hillary's pal urged Hillary to clean the fall for Travelgate meeting of Clinton lawyers- helped prepare the response to out the office that han- but wrote a memo, dis- "Vacuum Rose law files"-is in- the first reports about White- dles presidential press covered last week, triguing investigators. The for- water in '92. Her notes show travel-and his air- claiming the firings mer White House attorney says that Mrs. Clinton's connections charter firm then bid conformed with "the he was referring to a gap in the to McDougal were played down for the travel business. First Lady's wishcs." files, not a pending cover-up. from the start. JANUARY 15, 1996 NEWSWEEK 29 JAN-08-1996 10:20 415 391 0759 P.11/14 In her new book, the First Lady draws on her own sometimes difficult experiences to explain how all of us can help raise the country's children 'It Takes V By Hillary Rodham Clinton Yet cverywhere we look, children are under assault: from vio- lence and neglect, from the breakup of families, from the tempta- tions of alcohol, tobacco, sex, and drug abuse, from greed, material- ism, and spiritual emptiness. These problems are not new, but in HILDREN ARE NOT RUGGED our time they have skyrocketed. Against this bleak backdrop, the individualists. They depend on struggle to raise strong children and to support families, emotional- C ly as well as practically, has become more fierce. the adults they know and on 1 have spent much of the past 25 years working to improve the thousands more who make lives of children. My work has taught me that they need more of our time, energy, and resources. But no experience brought home the decisions every day that affect lesson as vividly as becoming a mother myself. When Chelsea their well-being. All of us, Victoria Clinton lay in my arms for the first time, I was over- whelmed by the love and responsibility I felt for her. whether we acknowledge it or not, are Bill and I had wanted to start a family immediately after we responsible for deciding whether our chil- married, in 1975, but we were not having much luck. In 1979, we scheduled an appointment to visit a fertility clinic right after a long- dren are raised in a nation that doesn't just awaited vacation. Lo and behold, I got pregnant during that vaca- espouse family values but values families. tion. (I have often remarked to my husband that we might have had more children if we had taken more vacations!) 30 In Newark, N.J., our daily lives and fed us with her devotion. reaching out imagination, and great spirit. My parents also to a favorite had a lot of help from the village in raising my constituency- brothers and me. Grandparents, aunts, un- schoolchildren cles. and cousins all pitched in if illness or some other misfortune strained the family. And plenty of, other adults-from librarians to crossing guards to Scout leaders-looked out for us. Those who urge a return to the values of the 1950s are yearning for the kind of family and neighborhood I grew up in and for the feelings of togetherness they engendered. I understand that nostal- gia. I feel it myself when the world seems too much to take. There were many good things about our way of life back then. But our past was not so picture-perfect. Ask African-American children who grew up in a segregated society, or immigrants who struggled to survive in sweatshops and tenements, or women whose life choices were circumscribed and whose work was underpaid. Ask those who grew up in the picture-perfect houses about the secrets and desperation they sometimes concealed. The longing for "the way things used to be" also obscures the larger settings in which the family finds itself today, as it struggles with broken homes, discrimination, economic downturns, urban- ization, consumerism, and technology. Here are some of the chal- lenges we face-and a few ways to overcome them. On Divorce: The instability of American households today poses great risks to the healthy development of children. The divorce rate has been falling slowly, but for a high proportion of marriages, "till BALTH ALBWANG-7168 HOUSE death do us part" means "until the going gets rough." My strong feelings about divorce have caused me to bite my tongue more than a few times during my own marriage and to think instead about what I could do to be a better wife and partner. My husband has done the same. I am not saying that there are not reasons for divorce. The abuse and violence Bill's mother, Virginia Kelley, experienced is some- thing no parent or child should endure. But people with children need to ask what more they can do before they call it quits. When children are involved, we should consider returning to mandatory "cooling off" periods, with education and counseling. illage' On Pre-Natal Care: There I was, lying in my hospital bed, try- ing desperately to figure out how to breast-feed. I had been trained to study everything forward. backward, and upside down before reaching a conclusion. It seemed to me I ought to be able to figure this out. As I looked on in horror, Chelsea started to foam at the nose. I thought she was strangling or having convulsions. Franti- cally, I pushed every buzzer there was to push. A nurse appeared promptly. She assessed the situation calmly, Parents bear the first and primary responsibility for their sons then, suppressing a smile, said, "It would help if you held her head and daughters-to feed them, to sing them to sleep. to make up a bit, like this." Chelsea was taking in my milk, but because of countless daily decisions that determine whom they have the po- the awkward way I held her, she was breathing it out of her nose! tential to become. But children exist in the world as well. From the Like many women, I had read books when I was pregnant- moment they are born. they depend on a host of other "grown- wonderful books filled with dos and don'ts about what babies need ups"-grandparents, neighbors, teachers, ministers, employers, in the first months and years to ensure the proper development of polítical leaders, and untold others who touch their lives. Each of their bodies, brains, and characters. But as every parent soon us plays a part in every child's life. As an old African proverb says: discovers, grasping concepts in the abstract and knowing what to It takes a village to raise a child. do with the baby in your hands are two radically different things. I grew up in a family that looked like it was straight out of the And as a nation, we are not paying enough attention to what ought 1950s television sitcom "Father Knows Best." Hugh Ellsworth to be our highest priority: educating and empowering people to be Rodham, my father, was a self-sufficient, tough-minded small- the best parents possible. Education and empowerment start with businessman who ran a plant that screen-printed and sold drapery giving them the means and encouragement to plan pregnancy itself, fabrics. He worked hard and never encountered a serious financial so that they have the physical, financial, and emotional resources to setback. But like many who came of age during the Great Depres- support their children. sion, he constantly worried that he might. Openness about sexuality and availability of contraception in My mother assumed an equally traditional role, providing the most Western European countries are credited with lowering rates unlimited affection and encouragement that smoothed our path of unintended pregnancy and abortion. By contrast, more than 100 and balanced the pressures my father imposed. She organized million women around the world still cannot obtain or arc not JANUARY 15, 1996 NEWSWEEK 31 JAN-08-1996 10:22 415 391 0759 P. 14/14 For the sake of our children, let us use government, as we have in the past, to further the common good kids about sex, The available evidence does not support fears that sa's orphanage in New Delhi-and were presented with frequent direct discussion of sexual behavior increases sexual activity; rath- opportunities to reflect on what it means to be an American. Many er, it suggests many adolescents become sexually active without of the people we met told us how much they admired our country. having had any formal sex education at all. And no matter how When Americans are reminded of the bounty and protection we great an effort adults make to convince young people to abstain, enjoy, most of us are grateful. Our gratitude has its roots in a view there will be some who are determined to embark on sexual of government that dates back to the Pilgrims. In this view, govern- experience. They need straight talk about contraception and sexu- ment is an instrument both to promote the common good and to ally transmitted diseases to help them deal responsibly with the protect the individual's rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of consequences of their actions. happiness. I do wish we would all take a deep breath and remember that sex By the 1980s, however, faced with mounting economic and social has been around for a long. long time and we are all here because of problems, Americans began to question the ability of government it. It is an important part of who we are and how we live, and there to solve them. Many began to believe government itself was should be no shame in our children's curiosity about it. If we could the problem. Even those of us who are mindful of the progress we accept that, we could begin talking to children, as soon as they have made through government recognize that there are limits to could understand what we were saying, about the importance of what it can do. honoring their bodies and entering into relationships responsibly. At present, the extreme anti-government position is the noisiest one-or at least the one that gets the most attention from the medía. On Gender Stereotyping: The attempt to attach labels to our Anti-government rhetoric appears to offer a vision of greater effi- lives takes us backward. Whenever we pose women's options as an ciency, self-reliance, and personal freedom. (For obvious reasons, it "either/or" choice-most commonly between work and family- also usually enjoys greater financial backing and better-organized we do a disservice all around. In earlier generations, we lost artists, support.) Unfortunately. this rhetoric argues against the excesses of doctors, and engineers. My generation lost good mothers and government but not against those of the marketplace, where there is dedicated community volunteers among women who did not see great power to disrupt the lives of workers, families, and communi- a way to combine their work life with making a home or nurtur- ties. It even argues against the basic protections government extends ing a family. to the well-being of individuals, families, and communities, without I have had my own experiences with the power of stereotypes, offering an alternative way of safeguarding them. In fact, its extreme most notably when the response I gave to a reporter's question case against government, often including intense personal attacks on during the 1992 campaign led to the infamous cookies-and-tea government officials and political leaders, is designed to advance tempest. I had understood the question to refer to the ceremonial narrow religious, political. and economic agendas. role of a public official's spouse, and I replied that I had chosen to For the sake of our children, we ought to pursue my law practice while my husband was governor rather than The first time she call an end to false debates between values stay home as an official hostess, serving cookies and tea to guests. held Chelsea in and policies. Both personal and mutual re- Now, the fact is, I've made my share of cookies and served her arms, Hillary sponsibility are essential, and we should hundreds of cups of tea. But I never thought that made me a good, recalls, 'I was work to strengthen them at all levels of soci- bad, or indifferent mother, or a good or bad person. So it never overwhelmed' ety. Let us admit that some government pro- occurred to me that my comment grams and personnel are efficient would be taken as insulting moth- and effective, and others are not. ers (I guess including my own!) Let us acknowledge that when it who choose to stay home with comes to the treatment of chil- their children full-time. Nor did it dren. some individuals are evil, occur to me that the next day's neglectful, or incompetent, but headlines would reduce me to an others are trying to do the best anti-family-"career woman." they can against daunting odds I learned from the episode that and deserve the help only we- when I am asked a question that through our government-can relates to me personally, my an- provide. Let us use government, swer may be measured by how as we have in the past, to further people feel about the choices the common good. they've made in their own lives. Nothing is more important to But the incident also highlight- our shared future than the well- ed the energy that is wasted on being of children. For children sniping over women's and men's are at our core-not only as vul- choices and on stereotyping. nerable beings in need of love and care but as a moral touch- IN THE SPRING OF 1995, CHEL- stone amidst the complexity and sea and I traveled together contentiousness of modern life. through South Asia. As the moth- Just as it takes a village to raise a eT of a teenager, I felt very lucky child, it takes children to raise up indeed that my 15-year-old was a village to become all it should willing to spend 10 days with me. be. The village we build with We had an unforgettable time- them in mind will be a better including a visit to Mother Tere- place for us all. JANUARY 15, 1996 NEWSWERK 33 TOTAL P. 14 JAN-08-1996 10:21 415 391 0759 P. 13/14 NATIONAL AFFAIRS I understand the nostalgia for the America of the 1950s. I feel it myself. But our past was not so picture-perfect HOUSE using family planning services because they are poor, uneducated, unable to. The sad fact is Americans have At home In the or lack access to care. Twenty million women seek unsafe abortions never sufficiently valued the work of caring for Chicago suburbs, each year. children. This is due in part to our nation's long 1955: Hillary (far We may think our country is far from this end of the spectrum, ambivalence about whether surrogate child left), her parents but statistics tell a different story. Two in five American teenage care is acceptable. And Americans continue to and brother Tony girls become pregnant by age 20, and 1.5 million abortions are be divided over what role, if any, the federal performed in America each year. It is a national shame that many government should play in helping working parents pay for it. Americans are more thoughtful about planning their weekend entertainment than about planning their families. On Intelligence and Education: Recent discoveries in neuro- We also know that women who receive pre-natal care, especially science, molecular biology. and psychology have given researchers in the first trimester, are more likely to deliver healthy, full-term a whole new understanding of when and how the human brain babies, while women who do not receive adequate pre-natal care develops. Above all, this new information makes clear that a child's are more than twice as likely to give birth to babics weighing less character and potential are not already determined at birth. Dr. than five and 8 half pounds, the definition of "low birth weight." Frederick Goodwin, former director of the National Institute of Mental Health, cites studies in which children "at risk" for devel- On Health Care and Day Care: There's probably no area of opmental problems were exposed at an carly age to stimulating our lives that better illustrates the connection between the village environments. The children's IQ scores increased by as much as 20 and the individual and between mutual and personal responsibility points. Bear this research in mind when you listen to those who than health care. Today there are more than 10 million children, argue that our nation cannot afford to implement comprehensive most with working parents, who do not have health insurance. The early education programs for disadvantaged children and their rate will accelerate even more if Congress enacts proposed cut- families. If we as a village decide not to help families develop their backs in Medicaid. children's brains, then at least let us admit that we are acting not on Some families who can afford to pay for private insurance are the evidence but according to a different agenda. unable to find coverage. In Cleveland, Ohio, I met a couple who have After a dozen years of involvement in education reform. I'm two daughters with cystic fibrosis. The family could afford private convinced that the biggest obstacles many students face are the low insurance, but no one was willing to sell them a policy because of the expectations we have of them and their schools. And nowhere is girls' conditions. They repeated to me the words of one insurance the partnership of parents and the rest of the village more crucial to agent-words I will never forget. "What you don't understand," the the schools than in the expectation that discipline and order are agent told them, "is that we don't insure burning houses." necessary for learning. I agree with those who advocate dress I find this attitude deplorable. And if we are willing to write off codes and even uniforms in some districts because they appear to these children, whose will be next? Scientists will soon be able to diminish the frictions caused by brand-name consumerism and tell us which of our genes predispose us to cancer or diabetes or gang identification. other serious diseases. Will those who carry such genes and the And after so many years of working with and listening to Ameri- children we pass them on to eventually be denied insurance, too? can adolescents, I also don't believe they are ready for sex or its If you want to open the floodgates of guilt and dissension any- potential consequences-parenthood, abortion, sexually transmit- where in America, start talking about child care. It is an issue that ted diseases-and I think we need to do everything in our power to brings out all of our conflicted feelings about what parenthood discourage sexual activity and encourage abstinence. This means should be and about who should care for children when parents are adult support, including the time it takes to organize gatherings for kids, instead of turning them loose in malls, video arcades, or the From "IT TAKES A VILLAGE And Other Lessons Children Teach streets. Homes, schools, churches, and communities should pro- Us," by Hillary Rodham Clinton. To be published by Simon & vide havens for kids who want an alternative. Schuster, Inc. Copyright c 1996 by Hillary Rodham Clinton. These same entities have to pitch in when it comes to educating 32 newsweek JANUARY 15, 1996 THE WHITE HOUSE Office of the Press Secretary Internal Transcript January 4, 1996 INTERVIEW OF THE FIRST LADY BY NEWSWEEK MAGAZINE The Map Room Q Just, if we could, why did you write the book? What are you trying to accomplish? MRS. CLINTON: I wrote it because I want people to talk about what's best for children, and to think of ways all of us in our own lives can begin to act together SO that we can make life better for kids. I'm very concerned about what's happening to children not only in our country, although that's my primary concern, but really everywhere. And I've worked on this for more than 25 years now. And a lot of the problems are ones that are getting worse, yet we know so much more about what children need to be healthy and happy and develop well. And I know SO many people who are doing great work with children, but somehow that information either doesn't get out or doesn't get out to the people who could put it to good use. So I thought I would take some time out and just share some of my thoughts about kids from the perspective not only of somebody who's worked on and studied kids, but as a mother myself and as somebody who really cares about them. Q In talking to some of your staffers and friends to do the companion piece we asked them kind of why you're out there and what drives you to keep doing these things you've been doing for 25 years. And some talk about your Methodism, some talked about your time at Yale Law School. How would you explain what motivates you and what keeps you going and drives you? MRS. CLINTON: I've thought about that writing this book. I guess I hadn't really considered it before. Ever since I can remember, as a little girl, I have been drawn to children. And I think some of that probably comes from my mother and her feelings about children and what children need, in part because of her own life. And also the encouragement that I got to work with children starting when I was in junior high school and high school. I always was grateful for what I had and I always felt bad for kids that I went to school with who seemed like really good kids and never had any luck, never had any breaks at all, and needed just a little bit of help maybe from somebody -- a teacher, a coach, a minister. And then when I got to college and law school and began to study22 child development, so much of this is really common sense about what makes for strong families and resilient children. And there are SO many forces at work in our society and in our culture that seemed to be undermining what we know is best for children. So I've just always been drawn to kids and then I became more and more interested in trying to learn about kids and then work on what would help kids. Q One thing that struck me reading the book that's going to be interesting to readers is you are routinely pictured as a traditional liberal, maybe a '90s version, but the word "liberal" often gets attached to your name. Yet your own social values in the book would seem to most Americans as being pretty conservative. I mean, you mentioned things like dress codes, very down on easy divorce, no sex until you're 21 -- it would be better at least if people didn't have sex -- I mean, a fairly conservative personal social code. Talk to us a little bit about that, of reconciling this perception of your political liberalism with what at least appears to be a more conservative personal code. MRS. CLINTON: One of the reasons I think I wrote this book, although I didn't really frame it in my own mind this way, is because I really do have a lot of opinions and beliefs that I think most people have that don't fall easily into any category of politics or ideology. And as I -- I quote in the book from one of my favorite documents about children and families, what the Catholic bishops wrote about putting families first, that there isn't any liberal or conservative answer for helping kids and families. I was raised and have tried to live m for my child, for the people that are close to me, what my responsibility as a citizen is and the rest. But also, how do we accept responsibility for each other. So I think some of that is rooted in my religious upbringing and faith. I think some of it is rooted in the kind of community I grew up in that really did have these invisible webs of support for children and families. And I think some of it is out of the American tradition of practical approaches to problems. When I look at what's happening to children in lots of parts of the country, it strikes me that political partisan rhetoric is not going to solve the problems these kids face. So we ought to put that to one side and really ask as our basic premise what is best for kids. And if the answer falls into one category or the other, that to me is not as important as then trying to decide what we're going - 3 - to do to change conditions for children. & Some of this stuff in the latest budget rankling doesn't always seem to be in the best interest of children. Are some of the compromises that the President has to make, are they just necessary for the pragmatism of politics, or are you pushing for certain things? I mean, what's your role in kind of the latest budget rankling? MRS. CLINTON: I don't have any role in the rankling, I have a very keen interest in following what's going on and have a strong feeling about the kind of investments we need to make on behalf of families and children. This whole set of issues that I think are being debated right now are really proxies for a lot of other debates. Yes, they are about balancing the budget and trying to bring fiscal responsibility into our governance, which I am all for and believe strongly in. But they're more about what is it we all believe should be part of our mutual responsibility and in what way should that mutual responsibility be enacted through the government as our mutual instrument. And I think that when one looks at what's happening to families and children in a time of such great change in the economy and in the culture, it strikes me as a very conservative position to say, we want to do what we can to strengthen families, not just through government policy, but through employment, through rebuilding community structures, through religious outreach, all the other institutions. So I think that a lot of the feelings people have right now in the country that are being kind of focused on Washington really stand Washington stands for a lot of the debates that are taking place around kitchen tables and water coolers and in every other setting in America about who are we and how are we going to do the best job we can moving into this next century. Q I want to come back to the book and specifically your writing of it, but I've got to veer off for a second into some week's news. We got this document I guess it was either leaked or released last night about the Travel Office, where this memo from Watkins which seems to have, according to Watkins, have you being pretty insistent with both him and Foster about firing the Travel Office staff, as I read the first couple pages. But then when the GAO sends you written questions and asks, "How would you describe and to whom would you attribute the origin of the decision to remove the Travel Office employees, and how would you characterize your role in that decision" the written answers say that you don't know the origin of the decision to remove the White House Travel Office employees, had no role in the decision to terminate MORE - 4 - the employees. Help us reconcile this. MRS. CLINTON: Well, you know, it's no surprise because have said it in the past that I was concerned about reborts of financial mismanagement in the Travel Office and I expressed that concern because I thought that it needed to be looked into. And it was looked into, and indeed, there was financial mismanagement. And changes were made that led to the Travel Office being cleaned up and now operating under appropriate accounting principles. But those decisions about who should do what and when they should be done, those were made by other people. Q Well, in the memo, it reports a direct conversation. MRS. CLINTON: I had one conversation with David, which has also been reported in the past. That's in at least one of the seven reports that have been done about this Travel Office matter. Q And it said, "Foster regularly informed me of the First Lady's concern and desired action. The action desired was the firing of the Travel Office staff." Did -- MRS. CLINTON: You know, I just don't have any memory of that. What I do remember is having a conversation with David Watkins at Vince Foster's suggestion in which David Watkins told me that Peat Marwick had begun an investigation into the financial management of the Travel Office, and I said, it sounded like that's what should be done. Q Nineteen ninety-four was a particularly politically vitriolic year, it seems to a lot of people, and one of the things that's come up is obviously Whitewater, and we're wondering if you feel that Whitewater has become targeted at you specifically? Is that now what's going on? MRS. CLINTON: Well, I don't know. It's been going on a long time. We've tried to cooperate in every way we can, because nobody would like this matter over with more than I would. But it's been difficult because the issues keep changing, the ground keep shifting about what it supposedly is about. The RTC report comes out and says that -- what we had said four years ago, that we had been in this failed land investment and lost money is indeed what happened. That doesn't end it; it keeps a life of its own. And I do think that at least some of the reason for that is because it's the political season again and has been ever since the '92 campaign. So we'll continue to just try to cooperate and try to help get this matter resolved. Q Certainly, that absolutely seems to be the MORE - 5 - case, but there is also some confusion that even people who aren't kind of out to get you or who would be for you think, you know, it is kind of confusing -- had spin, including mine, when we look at some of this stuff. One thing that's come up recently that we are hoping you might just come out and clear the air on is this thing about Madison. In '92, during the campaign, you said that Madison Guaranty you worked for kind of minimally. But then in recent weeks, through Susan Thomases' notes, I think it said something like "several conferences," or something along those lines. Again, how do we kind of reconcile that? How would you describe your role? MRS. CLINTON: Well, I would describe it as I've always described it. Based on the evidence that we've seen, the Rose Law Firm represented Madison for about 15 months, and over those 15 months I did about an hour a week worth of work. And I don't know, really, what the direction of some of the questions are because there is no way that I can, in my own mind, think of an hour a week over 15 months as being a significant amount of work. So I'll just have to wait and see what the questions are, because certainly, the records that have been made available are the ones that tell us how much work was done and how much was paid and that money was returned to Madison because there was no more work to be done for them, and the documents pertaining to the work that had been turned over demonstrate what the work is. We've given everything we have, and we'll continue to try to answer the questions. I can't really add anything to that. Q One area of confusion that keeps coming up again is about the documents in Foster's office after his death. Were you concerned about law enforcement having unfettered access to them? MRS. CLINTON: No, and, you know, let me be really clear about this. No documents were taken out of Vince Foster's office the night he died, and I did not direct anyone to interfere with any investigation into his death. I don't know how best to convey, after two and a half years, the level of grief and shock and just distraughtness that I and other people felt at the news and, really, the refusal to believe that it could be true. But that certainly was what was most paramount to me about those days was the way we were all feeling, our worries about his family, and there was no discussion of documents or Whitewater or anything like that. That was not what any of us were thinking about or concerned about. Q So there's no way possibly somebody could have construed what you've said as a concern about keeping MORE - 6 - -- either keeping the Justice Department out or getting these documents to you for you to review? MRS. CLINTON: I don't see how. I can only tell you that for months and even, I guess now, for a couple of years, I didn't even remember who I had talked to until I saw phone records. I had very little memory about the specifics. I could just remember the overwhelming emotional reality of what had happened, and that's what has stayed with me during all of these months. Q I guess there's just one last point along those lines. But there were documents here in the Residence for five days, and people kind of go, you know, even if they want to say I can understand, a close friend dies, certainly there's a lot of emotional stuff going around at that time, why weren't the documents here for five days, if not to review them? MRS. CLINTON: Well, because when I was in Arkansas and I was called that Bernie Nussbaum was distributing the documents out of Vince's office and there were personal documents of mine which I didn't even know Vince had files that were personal to us in his office, I was asked what should be done with them, and I said, well, send them to our lawyers. And through a variety of phone calls back and forth and the convenience of people and people getting ready to go to Arkansas for the funeral, the decision was made that they couldn't get sent over that day, and I was asked if there were a place that they could be stored, and I said, I don't know, talk to some of the people in the Residence. And SO they were locked up there. I mean, it's difficult to keep track of all of the spider webs that are spun and the theories and the innuendoes. It was something that seemed natural to do. And SO they were locked in a closet and then they were picked up by our lawyer and they were then examined, and then an index was made of them, and the index was sent to me, and that was the first time I knew what was in there. Q So you never reviewed them while -- MRS. CLINTON: No, no. Because -- it wasn't important to us. I keep going back -- with two and a half years, people can try to take a cold, dispassionate view of what was going on. And I'm not saying that there weren't mistakes made and that people didn't act out of grief and they didn't rush around trying to keep busy to deal with the emotion that they were unable to cope with. I imagine that people were bumping into each other just all of the time. But nobody -- nobody was trying to destroy or secrete documents. Nobody was trying to interfere with any investigation. They were dealing with something that had never happened before. And maybe if we had been here for a MORE - 7 - couple of years, maybe if we knew a little bit more about what the possible conspiracies that could be spun might look like in retrospect, I'm sure everybody would have tried to be more thoughtful or dispassionate in the heat of that moment. But, honest to goodness, the shock of even talking about it now just really -- it's very difficult to do. Q It's understandably a really emotional thing, and it must be hard, I assume, to kind of see close friends now kind of being put through that D'Amato wringer. Is that hard to deal with, and has that been a struggle? MRS. CLINTON: Well, it does make me sad and it also makes me angry from time to time. My husband chose to be in public life, and although I wish it weren't quite as brutal as it has become in recent years, that's a choice he made and it's a choice I support. So to a great extent, we are here by our own choosing. But that's not true of many of our friends and colleagues and family members --people who get thrust into this situation and harassed. And that does make me feel badly because I don't think it's fair. But it's something that you can't spend a lot of time worrying about or being consumed by because there's too much to do. And certainly the President gets up every day thinking about what he's going to do for the country, and so do I. I mean, that's one of the reasons that I wrote this book because when I traveled around during '93 and '94, particularly about health care, I kept running into people who just didn't understand what was going on in the lives of so many kids. They didn't really -- they had never met an uninsured child or they'd never met a child with a chronic disease. And SO part of the reason that I took the time to write this was that I thought I have a 1 That's definitely in your own words. I was saying to Becky, SO what do you think. I said it sounds like the little I've gotten a feel for you -- really, it's -- Ivan is going to kill me because he wants to go back to the book. But I just have one quick question which was going back to watching people up there go through the wringer, and does it ever make you feel and are you thinking about going up there yourself, and, also, personally giving testimony at this point on Whitewater to say finally and clear the air and get up there yourself at some point? MRS. CLINTON: Well, we're going to continue to cooperate. I'm not going to predict, you know, what turn this takes. I'd be out of business if I tried to predict MORE - 8 - it four years ago because it's been totally unpredictable. Q Do you have any plans about doing it -- I mean, there's been this sort of parade of witnesses all fall. Are you going to go up yourself? MRS. CLINTON: I'm just going to wait and see what happens with all of these various things that are in the air and will continue to cooperate. Q Waiting for a subpoena as opposed to voluntary -- MRS. CLINTON: I'm not going to predict what might or might not happen because I can't possibly do that. Q Let me go back to the book for a second and do it in terms of being a First Lady and how other First Ladies have carried out there role. I mean, the comparison has been made to Eleanor Roosevelt. Talk to us a little bit about your perception of your role as a First Lady and how this book fits into that. MRS. CLINTON: Well, you know, I think that one of the things that I've learned in the last couple of years is how good an opportunity people have in this position to highlight problems that they're concerned about. You know, Mrs. Bush did it with literacy, and Mrs. Reagan did it with drugs. And Mrs. Carter did it with mental illness, and Mrs. Ford did it with drug abuse and breast cancer. And, certainly, nobody did it like Mrs. Roosevelt because she had SO many interests and she had so many years to be a spokesperson for them. And I think it's an important part of the role. And it's something that comes naturally to me because I care deeply about what's happening to children. And SO I was struck, mostly during the health care travels that I did, how I kept hearing a lot of the same things from around the country that people were not connecting one to the other. They weren't saying, well, here's a program that's happening in Seattle that we ought to know about in Miami. And I thought maybe if I used this position to highlight some of the programs and people and ideas that I've worked on for all these years, I could really help people get organized around doing what they could in their own families and then rippling out from there on behalf of kids. Q Has the press gotten in the way of that? I mean, they're the natural megaphone. Have they helped or hurt this cause? MRS. CLINTON: You know, I think it's been both. MORE - 9 - But I think it's very difficult in the way that the press has available to it to report on issues to be able to stay with something over time. You know, by the very nature of your business, you really can't do that. So much of the good information has been reported somewhere, but it's not been a steady drumbeat that people have been able to latch onto. Q What about in terms of your role. We always here, oh, now all of a sudden you are nontraditional, and all of a sudden you're traditional. You talked about this a little bit in Paraguay. Have we in the media just misunderstood? I mean, what -- I know we've been culprits to some extent, but I'm curious how you see it in terms of how we've treated you. MRS. CLINTON: Well, I don't think I've made it very easy for you. I have to confess. You know, I've said in the past that I've had to learn to rezone my zone of privacy and kind that I've worked all these years would come as a surpriset some people because I haven't talked about them in a large forum or I haven't let people know that it's something I've worked on a long time. So I take a lot of the responsibility for not being perhaps as clear as I could be. You know, during the '92 campaign I said I wanted to be a voice for children, and that's what I've always wanted to be. But then I immediately got into the health care debate. And that's all I did for nearly two years -- a year and a half, I guess. So that's all anybody knew about what I was doing. And because of the nature of that debate -- I mean, you go back and you look at what happened to Harry Truman when he tried to do health care reform, and even the moderate reforms of Eisenhower and certainly Medicare and Medicaid with Johnson all through what Kennedy tried to do and Nixon's plan and the like -- I mean, it is inherently such a controversial issue that I don't think it really gave people a chance to know much about all the other things that I care about and why health care to me was a natural extension of my long-term interest in children's health. So I don't fault anybody. I think it's been largely my responsibility that I haven't quite conveyed as fully as I should what I'm about and what I care about. Q Was this unavoidable? I mean, you were going to do health care. Health care was something that was going to happen one way or the other, right? Was there another way to bake this pie? MORE - 10 - - MRS. CLINTON: Oh, I'm sure there are many ways to bake the pie, but I think that from the President's perspective, he believed strongly then, believes strongly now that health care will continue to be a problem. And certainly the evidence is that it's getting worse. We have more uninsured people today than we did just a few years ago. So it was going to be addressed. And I'm grateful I got a chance to be involved in it because I learned a lot and I cared a lot about it. And things didn't work out. It didn't create the kind of mood for back and forth and compromise and negotiation and hammering out a good reasonable solution that we had hoped it would. But I don't regret being involved in it. I just feel a little bit sad that that's all I got to do in a way. Q People say both as a criticism and a compliment that you are very focused, directed, that when you have a mission or a purpose, you're going down this road and you are going down it. And I've heard that -- again, it's pejorative and it's praise. How would you -- how do you react to that? MRS. CLINTON: I think there's some truth in that. And I think it's probably both good and bad. I mean, it's true that when I was working on health care, that's really what I was working on. And that's why a lot of these things that now come up about what was happening during health care were things that were not on my radar screen particularly. I might have asked a question or made a comment, but I was really focused on doing what the President asked me to do. And particularly during those first months of the administration because, remember, we were going to try to have it done by May 1st. I mean, it was just an unbelievable task. And, of course, we didn't make May 1st, and then we were going to try to have it done by June 1st. So I do take seriously assignments I'm given and that was the biggest thing I've ever been asked to do. But I also feel that maybe because I've had a lucky life compared to so many people, that I have an obligation. And everywhere I've ever lived or every place I've ever been, I've always felt that I had to do something to give back. And it's been a joy for me. It's not a burden to me. And I also get very wrapped up in the lives of the people that I try to help. So I'm sure that somebody looking from the outside could say, gee, you know, on the one hand that's -- it's good, and I'm glad she's doing it. On the other hand, you know, lighten up a little. MORE - 11 - Q -- that burden, but at least in the books that get written, which I take for a grain of salt, but you often emerge as a fighter. One of the themes, one of the pictures of Hillary Clinton that comes out is a battler, a fighter. There will be a lot of talk, typically in the scene -- one side will be arguing one way, one will be arguing the other. Your husband will be judiciously listening to both and sort of enjoying the debate. And then you will enter, saying, okay, let's cut to the chase; this is what we got to do; we have to fight for it. I mean, that is a familiar scene in books that are written about the White House. How do you react to that? MRS. CLINTON: Well, I think that that's true for a lot of women. I don't view that necessarily as just a personal trait that -- that at some point you sort of say, well, gee, what is it we're going to do now, that all of the talk has gone on and the debate's been held. And I do think that in my life I've tried to be an advocate on behalf of causes and people that I believe in. S2HCLINTON: I don't think I'm a perf I think I work very hard, but I don't believe in perfection, at least not in this life. I may appear to people to be someone who is willing to put in a lot of hours and to work on behalf of things that I care about, but I enjoy that. That's something that gives me pleasure, because it's like a simple thing like there's a story in this book about one of these children. And I'm now trying to do things on adoption and foster care. And there's a gathering I had before the holidays where I brought kids from all over the country who had been adopted. And unfortunately, we have the event on a day when the budget was blowing up or something was happening, so we didn't get a lot of attention here about this issue. But we did get attention out in the country because people came from all over and their local newspapers covered it. There's a little girl who read a poem, and over Christmas she got adopted. And, I mean, that's the kind of effort that I really think is worth making. And if it takes intensity to try to bring that to somebody's attention and to try to help solve a problem for somebody, I think that's worth doing. Q Was this book a way obviously, the health care -- there's a rough year there --- health care went down, Foster died, family members -- I mean, just a tough year. Was this book a way to in part to come out of that and -- MRS. CLINTON: No. I didn't think about it that way, but it gave me a lot of time alone, as you have written a lot books, you know. And a lot of time when I would be MORE - 12 - staring at the blank page trying to figure out how I was going to put into readable English what I was feeling. So I had a lot of time to think. And there's a chapter in there that -- and it came to me, I remembered my father talking about how are you going to shovel your way out of this. And I realized that 1993 was a personally very challenging and difficult year with my father and Vince and my mother-in-law. Just kind of moving to Washington, all the things you do to get settled in and doing it all on the world stage. And so I really did have to kind of sum it up a lot of my own resources and work through many of the feelings that I had, not only on my own behalf, but for my daughter, my husband and family members, and then friends and colleagues who were likewise suffering because of their own friendship with Vince, as one example. And so I do think that it was a very helpful experience for me to really spend time alone, which I hadn't, because I'd been pretty much on the road traveling and doing official duties and the like. And just kind of take some time to reflect and to write about something that I've cared about a long time, which helped to sort of focus me. Q Do you think of yourself as more of a pragmatist or an idealist? MRS. CLINTON: Well, I've always thought about myself as a pragmatist, because I think a lot of what I believe we should do for one another is very practical. Some may claim it's idealistic, but I think in both medium- and long-term, it's the most practical kind of approach to living. I believe that it makes good sense if I'm trying to be very self-interested about the future my daughter has to try to make sure as many kids as possible have as good a shot be afraid to walk down a street or go to a city park with her kids when she gets older. So I believe a lot of what I think of as pragmatic approaches to solving people's problems as ones that go beyond ideology or certainly politics. And I regret that our country has kind of gotten caught up in this label game that we've played for the last couple of years where if somebody presents an idea it's immediately labeled, and that means only one-half or one-third of the people will even listen to it, instead of trying to come together, find some common ground, build a village, to use my metaphor, with ideas in mind about what is in our best interest for everybody. Now, there will always be people on the extremes who will not want to engage in that exercise. They have a world view that is not mainstream or centered about MORE 115HAnd part of what I'm trying to do with this book, and then certainly with the talking about it that I'll be doing, is to summon people out of their preexisting stereotypes and labels so that we can begin to talk sensibly about what works and what doesn't work. I view that as one of our real challenges right now in our country. And I really regret the polarization that has taken place because it has most dramatically affected young people. I was looking at some research that a political scientist has done showing that young people are by far, in her words, more misanthropic than people our age and older. They don't trust anybody. They don't -- they have more emotional stress in their lives. And the explanations for that have to do with everything from the breakdown of the family and divorce, to the steady diet of what they see on television, to the way that they're treated by adults in their lives. And I just think we've got to take a step back here and say what are we creating? What are we doing to our children? And if we do that, then -- there aren't any simple answers. You can't say, oh, it's the government's fault. Or you can't say, oh, it's just these irresponsible parents living in the inner city. The responsibility is spread all the way across society. But the good news is there are things we could do right now that are not big macro changes that could make a difference -- if we would start having that kind of conversation. Q What should the government's role be in this stuff? MRS. CLINTON: Well, I think that the government should be a partner to all the other institutions in society. The government should be a safety net of last resort for the vulnerable and the poor. The government should be actively engaged in research and development, of new ways of solving problems, whether they're medical problems of any others that we're confronting. The government should have an active posture with respect to asserting the common American interest, both here at home and abroad. It's the only institution that we have. And, my goodness, we've invested more than 200 years in our ideals and our values. And they should be articulated. And there should be a consensus that hopefully could be nonpartisan about what the United States stands for. There's much for government to do. But there's also a lot for business to do. There's a lot for the media to do. Religious institutions, MORE - 14 - I think, could have a bigger social role -- civic groups. I mean, you could go down the list. So any time one talks about the government and the government's role, I want to marry that with everybody else's role, too, because it's too easy just to either blame the government and say we have to take our futures back into our own lives and we have to be compassionate and caring, and that's what we should do. And it's too easy to just say the government should do it. Neither of those is, to me, an adequate answer. Q I think we're done, right? Well, peer into the silver ball and tell us whether we're going to get a budget deal. (Laughter.) Q Are we on the record or off the record? (Laughter.) MRS. CLINTON: I think we'll eventually get a budget deal. I think there's too much at stake not to. Q As the noise level is getting higher again today -- I mean, my reporters were saying, oh -- the public, I'm not talking about the private, but the public noise -- the House is talking about going away for three weeks, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah. MRS. CLINTON: I hope we do. I think we need to. END