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04/09/96
13:21
1.
002
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
April 9, 1996
NOTE TO MELANNE VERVEER
BETSY MYERS
ELENA KAGAN
JENNIFER KLEIN
DEBBIE FINE
JUDY GOLD
From:
Jeremy Ben-Ami ALL
Subject:
HR1833 Floor debate
FYI, attached are Rep. Johnson's floor remarks. They are not especially helpful. However,
also note on the second page Rep. Becerra's remarks. His wife is apparently a high-risk ob-
gyn, and he quotes ACOG's position for the record.
I don't think this is too useful to include for the President's briefing. Let me know if you
disagree.
04/09/96
13:21
003
March 27, 1996
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE
H2911
whether it be chemical poisoning or
I am not a criminal. Mr. Speaker.
life and her fertility. She is now ex-
suction, dismemberment of a baby, in
And I am ashamed that what we are
pecting her next child.
this case a partially delivered baby
doing today may, in fact, makes inno-
But what about the women who come
killed with brain suction, this must be
cent women. women who love children,
after Coreen? What will happen to
brought to the forefront 80 the people
criminals. Coreen Costello, Mary-Doro-
them. their health, their lives, their
know exactly what is going on.
thy Lines, Claudia Ades, Viki Wilson.
families, if this life-saving procedure is
I hope the President says to the bill
Tammy Watts, and Vikki Stella. all
outlawed? Congress has no place in
that he will sign it. I hope he signs it.
women who offered their most personal
their decisions and no place in their
It is not likely. He will have earned the
stories about wanting to conceive and
tragedies.
legacy of being the abortion President.
to have a loving child and yet coming
Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker, I
What a tragic, what a pathetic legacy.
upon a physical and debilitating need
yield 3 minutes to the gentlewoman
to be the abortion President, especially
to have a medical procedure.
from Connecticut [Mrs. JOHNSON].
a man who once in his past used to be
Today we have legislation that will
Mrs. JOHNSON of Connecticut. Mr.
pro-life.
not cover all cases where a woman's
Speaker. I thank the gentlewoman
Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker, I
life is in danger. The bill will not pro-
from Colorado for yielding me time.
yield myself such time as I may
vide a health exception. H.R. 1833 cre-
If your daughter and son-in-law were
consume.
ates obstacles to medical research, and
faced with the extraordinary tragedy of
Mr. Speaker. I am sorry the gen-
tragically the life exception will not
discovering extreme fetal deformity
tleman would not yield. I wanted to
point out it does say it was the Con-
protect women. Criminals, we are mak-
late in pregnancy or a life threatening
ing. Women, their families, their physi-
development with abortion being the
ference of Catholic Bishops that cre-
ated that poster.
cians. This is not the way to go.
only alternative, would you, would
Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the
In order to suggest that those of us
you. each individual Member of this
gentlewoman from Hawaii [Mrs. MINK].
who rise to support the rights of
body. want her to have available to her
(Mrs. MINK of Hawaii asked and was
women do not have a love of a higher
the procedure that was the least
given permission to revise and extend
authority, how shameful. This is a bad
threatening to her life and the most
her remarks.)
bill. It does not help this country. It
protective of her future reproductive
Mrs. MINK of Hawaii. Mr. Speaker. It
does not help women, and it certainly
capability and the most respectful of
is really tragic, tragic that the per-
does not help the love we have for our
the need for the parents to be and their
sonal problems and the anxieties of
children.
living children to mourn their tragic
women who face these very. very dif-
Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Speak-
loss?
ficult decisions that must be made
er, I yield myself such time as I may
Consider the experience of Coreen
with respect to their health and their
consume.
Costello. Mrs. Costello and her husband
safety and the integrity of their family
Mr. Speaker. I want to respond to a
hold strong pro-life views, but were
and to have those tragic circumstances
point that was made a few moments
suddenly faced with the terrible and
of a person's life be used under these
ago about this bill criminalizing the
painful truth of the problems with her
circumstances to advance this political
activities of women and making crimi-
pregnancy. Specialists had determined
goal of trying to do away with abor-
nals of women. That is simply not true.
that the baby had a lethal neurological
tion.
I would suggest that before Members
disorder. Doctors at Cedars-Sinai told
But I think that the debate clearly
come to the floor to speak about the
the Costellos that their daughter would
points out that what is being at-
bill, they might want to read the bill.
not live, and due to the amniotic fluid
tempted here is a denunciation of the
The bill says clearly a woman upon
pooling in Mrs. Costello's uterus. as
rights of women that have been created
whom a partial-birth abortion is per-
well as the baby's position, there was a
by the U.S. Supreme Court. That 18
formed may not be prosecuted under
serious risk of a ruptured uterus. Natu-
what is at stake here.
this section.
ral birth or an induced labor were im-
It is not this procedure that is used
Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of
possible. Coreen Costello then consid-
so few times out of necessity. but it is
my time.
ered a caesarean section, but the doc-
the principle of interfering with the
tors at her hospital were adamant that
doctor and the women that require this
1930
the risk to her health and life were
procedure, taking away that right of a
Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker. I
simply too great.
woman to make this difficult decision,
yield 2 minutes to the distinguished
She and her husband chose not to
taking away the right of a woman to
gentlewoman from New York [Mrs.
risk leaving their other children moth-
consult with her physician about what
MALONEY),
erless by opting for a D&E procedure.
needs to be done. allowing the Congress
Mrs. MALONEY. Mr. Speaker. I rise
Because of the safety of the procedure.
of the United States to make these de-
in opposition to H.R. 1833. In yet an-
Coreen is now pregnant again.
cisions. I think that is the most rep-
other attempt to roll back a woman's
What right have we here in Congress
rehensible thing we could even think
right to choose, to roll back Roe versus
on this floor to say to this family that
of.
Wade, and make all abortions illegal.
you should have risked mom's life and
We talk about getting big govern-
choice opponents are putting forward
ignored your doctor's advice? By what
ment off of the backs of people. Well,
legislation which could endanger a
authority do we tell these women that
let us concentrate about what we are
woman's life and her ability to have
we know more in each of their cases
trying to do today. We are trying to
children in the future.
take away the rights of reproductive
than their own physicians?
freedom that the Supreme Court has
How odd that the majority party
It is ironic that some of you here are
established, which the courts have said
would describe itself as family friendly.
advocating legislation that would as-
we must not interfere, and this is what
Plain and simple, the supporters of this
sure that managed care plans guaran-
is before us today, and that is why this
bill feel it is more important to save a
teed physicians the right to tell women
Congress must oppose it. That is why
doomed fetus than the life of a mother
all the medical possibilities for treat-
this bill must never become law. It is
and her ability to have children in the
ment, and yet you will legislate here
trying to dictate to the doctors how to
future.
tonight the denial to women of Amer-
practice and criminalize their profes-
Coreen Costello is the mother of two.
ica who face terribly tragic. painful,
sion. I think it is outrageous.
The Dole amendment would not have
personal circumstances of the right to
Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker, I
allowed her to use this procedure.
have the medical procedure that in
yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman
Coreen Costello said in front of the
truth is safest for them and most pro-
from Texas [Ms. JACKSON-LEE]. a dis-
Senate in her testimony that she would
tective of their reproductive capabil-
tinguished member of the Committee
have taken any child that God gave
ity. assures them to the maximum ex-
on the Judiciary.
her. regardless of any handicap. But
tent possible that they will have more
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr.
her child was a child that could not
children in their future.
Speaker. I thank the gentlewoman for
live. Fortunately for Coreen and her
Men of the House of Representatives.
yielding this time to me.
family. her doctor was able to save her
women who are Members of Congress,
04/09/96
13:22
004
H2912
CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE
March 27, 1996
if it were your daughter, would you not
the fact that when a woman and her
make that very difficult choice of what
want her life and reproductive hopes
unborn child have this type of proce-
type of procedure she would need to
and dreams protected? Of course you
dure. that only the woman leaves the
preserve her health and her life. and
would. Do not do this shortsighted,
operating room.
perhaps have a chance to have & preg-
mean-spirited. terrible thing to women
Mr. Speaker, I think we are all for-
nancy that will be able to go to term.
in our Nation.
getting one thing: A third trimester
Mr. Speaker. I would urge Members
Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Speak-
baby has a very good chance of living.
to seriously consider voting strongly
er. I yield 1 minute to the gentlewoman
If It was allowed to be born without in-
against this particular bill, because it
from North Carolina [Mrs. MYRICK].
terference. I urge my colleagues who
does not do what the proponents say.
Mrs. MYRICK. Mr. Speaker. I hon-
might otherwise not support a prolife
Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker. I
estly believe that a lot of the problems
piece of legislation to support this leg-
yield myself the balance of my time.
we have today in society stem from the
islation, which simply and narrowly
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr.
fact that we have no regard for human
protects against partial birth abor-
ROGERS). The gentlewoman from Colo-
life. You can call me old-fashioned. but
tions.
rado is recognized for 2½ minutes.
I believe every individual born into
This debate is not about a woman's
Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker. as a
this world 18 special. needed and impor-
right to choose, because there are
woman. when I am with my doctor. I
tant.
other options. This debate today is
want that doctor focused on my health,
You know. our forefathers shared
about putting an end to a procedure
and not on their criminal liability.
this philosophy when they wrote in our
that kills a child just a few inches from
What this bill does is it will focus any
Declaration of Independence that we
doctor on steering away from what
full birth.
are endowed by our Creator with cer-
they think might be best for the pa-
Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker. I
tient. because they could serve 2 years
tain unalienable rights. that among
yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from
in prison or they could have a criminal
these are life, liberty. and the pursuit
California [Mr. BECERRA] a distin-
record, or on and on and on.
of happiness.
guished member of the Committee on
Mr. Speaker, I think every citizen
I ask that we consider the difference.
the Judiciary and also the spouse of a
thinks that that is a zone of privacy.
A doctor performs a painful. cruel, par-
distinguished physician.
This Congress has never interfered in
tial abortion one day, and it is accept-
Mr. BECERRA. Mr. Speaker, I thank
that zone of privacy between a family
ed. And then the next day. if that same
the gentlewoman for yielding me time.
and their physician. Today. for the
mother gave birth to the same age
Mr. Speaker, I am confused. The de-
first time, if this bill becomes law, we
child and then she killed her child, she
bate I am hearing from that side has
will be moving to make an act criminal
would be charged with murder. Only a
nothing to do with the medical proce-
by a doctor. I much more trust my doc-
few hours separates these two acts, but
dure that it seems we are trying to
tor than I do Members of this body. I
one is considered justified and accept-
ban. I continue to hear people talk
am sorry to say, so I get very angry
ed, even promoted, and the other is
about how we are conducting abortions
when I hear some of the things that
considered unjust. There is something
on babies that otherwise would be able
have been asid here.
wrong with our society today if we con-
to survive; if the pregnancy were to go
I have heard people talk about "inhu-
tinue to justify such an unjust proce-
to term. we would have a living baby.
mane, brutal, gruesome. terrible." We
dure.
When in fact, as my wife who happens
have seen the drawings. The drawings
Mrs. SCHROEDER. Mr. Speaker, I
to be a high-risk obstetrician-gyne-
were not done by the American College
yield 1 minute to the distinguished
cologist who deals specifically with
of Gynecologists and Obstetricians.
gentleman from Vermont [Mr. SAND-
women who have difficult pregnancies,
They do not support this bill. They
ERS].
has said, this 18 not a procedure where
were done, as they say rightfully. by
Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Speaker. I know
you are talking about a fetus that will
the Catholic Conference of Bishops.
that there are some Members of Con-
go to term and where you will have a
Now, they have the right to make their
gress who believe they know every-
healthy baby born. This is a procedure
case here. but, please, again. I think
thing about everything, but maybe
that is used when it is fairly clear that
most Americans trust their doctors to
once in awhile Members of this body
the baby has no chance to live, and to
make those difficult decisions.
might want to show a little humility.
allow the pregnancy to go to term
We have heard about pain. we have
We are discussing a procedure which,
would jeopardize the health and per-
heard about everything. I sat through
as I understand it, is used in .01 of 1
haps the life of the woman. So it seems
those hearings. The anesthesiologists
percent of abortions, a situation which
like the debate 18 not really on point.
who testified said that there is pain in
occurs only under the most tragic cir-
Now, let me read something that
everything. There is pain in birth. So if
cumstances.
came from the American College of Ob-
we are just going to outlaw anything
Day after day we hear from our con-
stetricians and Gynecologists, those
that is painful. we are going to be a
servative friends about how the big.
doctors that are asked to perform these
very busy Congress. What they were
bad Government should leave people
types of procedures and to protect the
saying is what happened. some of the
alone and get off of the backs of people.
women involved.
advocates were misstating anesthesi-
I would urge our conservative friends
They state:
ology procedures. That is possible, be-
to heed that advice on this occasion.
The college finds very disturbing any ac-
cause people here are not doctors.
This is a tragic circumstance. Let
tion by Congress that would supersede the
1945
the woman, let her family. let the phy-
medical judgment of trained physicians and
But they were not supporting the
sician make that decision, not the poli-
that would criminalize medical procedures
that may be necessary to save the life of a
bill. They were just trying to set the
ticians in Congress.
woman. Moreover, in defining what medical
record straight. Bottom line, as the
Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Speak-
procedures doctors may or may not perform,
gentlewoman from Kansas said, these
er, I yield 1 minute to the gentleman
the bill employs terminology that is not
are in very tragic circumstances. Only
from Missouri [Mr. VOLKMER].
even recognized in the medical community.
.01 percent of all abortions would be af-
(Mr. VOLKMER asked and was given
demonstrating why congressional. opinion
fected by this. These are basically a
permission to revise and extend his re-
should never be substituted for professional
handful of doctors, and thank goodness
marks.)
medical judgment.
a handful of families. But I must say as
Mr. VOLKMER. Mr. Speaker. I rise
Mr. Speaker. I think that states it
one who has been there, one who al-
today in strong support of H.R. 1833,
best. We have people here who are try-
most lost her life, I would be terribly
the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act.
ing to impose their opinion on a medi-
resentful of this happening, and I never
Today's battle for the rights of the un-
cal profession where technical. highly
thought it could happen to me. so I say
born differ from previous prolife and
sophisticated. highly trained individ-
to people, please, please, I know this is
proabortion debates. Yes, this debate
uals are being asked to perform lifesav-
a difficult issue.
today will not stop all abortions. It
ing procedures.
Anything you cannot explain. any-
will only stop one procedure, the par-
It does not make sense. We should
thing that is difficult to explain. peo-
tial birth abortion. It brings to light
stay out of this. We should let a woman
ple hesitate to vote against. But please