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Melanne Verveer's Subject Files
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Executive Office
Embassy of the United States of America
Lisbon, Portugal
FAX No. 351-1-726-5562
FROM:
Ambassador Elizabeth Frawley Bagley
Mo. Melanne Verveer
TO:
FAX NO. (202) 456-6244
SUBJECT: First Lady of Portugal's Invitation
NO. OF PAGES (including cover sheet): 6 DATE: July 21, 1995
SENDER:
file Portuges)
ELIZABETH FRAWLEY BAGLEY
AMBA: or THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
July 21, 1995
FAX: (202) 456-6244
Ms. Melanne Verveer
Deputy Chief of Staff
Office of the First Lady
RE: URC's Response to First Lady of Portugal's Invitation
Dear Melanne:
I called you last week to seek your advice and
assistance re Hillary's response to Dr. Maria Barroso
Soares' invitation to be the keynote spcaker at her
upcoming conference on "Stress and Violence in Childhood
and Youth" in Lisbon this September, which che is
co-chairing with Queen Sofia of Spain. AB Mrs. Soares
personally asked for my intervention, and since Dr. Berry
Brazelton, one of the conference organizers, already spoke
with Hillary about it, I sent d fax to Hillary with a copy
to you and Maggie, encouraging her participation if at all
possible. The time was propitious because Mrs. Soares was
planning to meet with Hillary in Washington on the
occasion of the Special Olympics ceremony and I felt
certain that she would bring up the invitation, which she
did.
Soon thereafter, I received a letter from Pam
Ciccetti, with an accompanying letter from Hillary,
reqretting that she could not come. Unfortunately, the
letter was dated before Mrs. Soares' meeting with Hillary
and made no reference to their conversation during the
Special Olympics fostivities. Therefore, 1 wonder if the
letter can be rewritten to include a reference Lo their
cordial meeting and perhaps. a special word about Berry
Brazolton's and my personal interest in the conference.
I'm really reluctant to send the first letter (which I am
sending to you as well) because it seems 00 perfunctory.
I hope you understand my particular sensitivity to this
awkward situation, but I feel strongly that it would be
"undiplomatic" to send the letter as is, given Mrs.
Soares' obvious disappointment that Hillary won't be able
to attend (unless of course she wants to change her
mind!). As I stressed in my letter to Hillary, which
AVENIDA DAS FORCAS ARMADAS. 1000 LISBON. PURTHGAL
-2-
follows, the First Lady of Portugal is a gifted,
articulate and revered figure in this country, having
Cought alongside her husband for over twenty years to
bring democracy to Portugal. A former actress, poet and
professor, she has dedicated herself to education and
children's issues and also, has expressed deep admiration
for Hillary as a follow pioneer.
In any event, I would hate to offend this very
special woman, for both professional and personal reasons
and therefore, I'm requesting 21 new, revised letter from
Hillary to Maria Barroso, reforring to their brief mccting
during the Special Olympics ceremonies and regretting (or
accepting?!) her kind offer to be the keynote speaker for
this important conference.
Please find on the following pages the two letters I
referred to: Hillary's response dated June 26 - four days
before my letter and her meeting with Mrs. Soareo, and my
June 30th letter to Hillary, in anticipation of her
meeting with Mrs. Soares the same day. My letter, by the
way, was never acknowledged, AM the first letter had
already been sent to me.
Thanks for your help and your understanding of my
consitive diplomatic dilcmma. I would greatly appreciate
your response as soon as possible, since Mrs. Soares is
waiting for an answer, after having Already raiood the
issue with Hillary on June 30. Please give my best to
Phil and try Lo find some time to visit us in this
enchanting country.
With warm regards,
Elizzeith Lizabeth Frawley Bagley
Ambassador
CC: Maggie williams
THE WHITE HOUSE
June 26, 1995
Mrs. Maria Barroso Soares
Lisbon
Dear Mro. Soares:
Thank you so much for inviting me to
attend the Conference on "Stress and
Violence" in September and for your very
kind personal words of support.
I regret that my schedule will not
permit me to attend the conference, which
will address issues of great. concern to me.
Please accept my sincere best wishes for
its success.
With kind regards, I am
Sincerely yours,
Hillary Rodham Clinton
ELIZABETH FRAWLEY BAGLEY
AMBASSADOR OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
June 30, 1995
Mrs. Hillary Rodham Clinton
The White House
Washington, D.C.
FAX: (202) 456-6244
Dear Hillary:
I understand from the NSC that you may be
seeing the First Lady of Portugal, Dr. Maria
Barroso Soares, in your office today. She is
in Washington to represent her country and to
lead her delegation to the Special Olympic
Games, beginning July 1 at Yale University.
She is a longtime supporter of the Special
Olympics and has championed many causes in
Portugal, such as AIDS research, anti-violence
campaigns, literacy (as a former educator
herself), human rights and, above all,
children's issues. It is in this context,
among others, that she may present you with an
invitation to an upcoming conference on
childhood and youth, which will be held in
Lisbon September 27-30, 1995. As she is deeply
involved with this issue and has spoken to me
herself on several occasions, I feel certain
that she will raise it with you, especially
since she has already sent you a formal letter
inviting you to participate as the keynots
speaker for the conference.
The conference, entitled "Stross and
Violence in Childhood and Youth" is being
organized by Dr. Joao Carlos Gomes-Pedro, a
loading pediatrician who serves on the Faculty
of Medicine of Lisbon University, and whose
letter immediately follows. He is a close,
personal friend and professional colleague of
Dr. Berry Brazelton, who is also helping to
organize the conference and will be a major
participant along with another advisor of
yours, Dr. Bettye Caldwell. I understand that
both Dr. Brazelton and Dr. Caldwell have spoken
to you already about this conference and I'd
like to add my own words of encouragement to
theirs. In short, given that the problems
AVENTDA DAS FORCAS ARMADAS 1600 LISBON, PORTUGAL
-2-
of stress and violence are subjects of
increasing alarm in our society, and
particularly in light of your lifolong
commitment to children and family issues, I
feel that you could make an invaluable
contribution by raising the level of
consciousness and offering a global perspective
on issues of international health, social
justice, and child welfare, all issues with
which you are already recognized as a. leading
advocate.
I realizo that your schedule is booked
months in advance and that your concontration
is on domestic issues, but I do believe that
these issues transcend burders and
nationalities. Your professional insights and
vision would elevate this conference by
attracting the media coverage that it so richly
deserves and urgently needs in order to reach a
global audience.
Finally, on both a personal and a
professional note, I would love to host you
here in this beautiful country. I can
guarantee that you would fall in love with
Portugal and with the Portuguese people as
Smith, T, and our two children have, and I'm
certain that you will find the First Lady of
Portugal à truly remarkable woman. Dr. Berry
Brazelton will surely echo these sentiments as
he has spent many years visiting Portugal.
Please let me know if you have any further
questions. In the meantime, good luck with
your new weekly column - I think it's a
fabulous idea and I'm looking forward to
reading it. Smith and I send our best to you
and the President and we look forward to seeing
you both in the near future.
with warm regards,
Elighth Elizabeth Frawley Bagley
Ambassador
CC: Margaret Williams, Chief of Staff
Melanne Verveer, Deputy Chief of Staff
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file Portugal
United States Department of State
Washington, D.C. 20520
July 24, 1997
TO: Melanne Verveer
Assistant to the President
Chief of Staff to the First Lady
The White House
FROM: Director Shirley E. Barnes
Office of Western European Affairs
Department of State
SUBJECT: Report on the Visit of the First Lady to Portugal
1. Attached please find Reports #1, 2, and 3 on the visit of
the First Lady to Portugal - July 16-20, 1997.
2. Background: Responding to an invitation from Prime Minister
Antonio Guterres, First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton visited
Portugal July 16-20, 1997. The visit was designed to continue
the strong ties between the United States and Portugal, and
reinforced our mutual interests in a range of social, economic
and cultural issues. It also afforded the First Lady the
opportunity to discuss first-hand subjects of importance to
both countries: initiatives in education, the role of women in
a nation's political, economic and social development, the
problems and consequences of globalization. Mrs. Clinton met
with the President of Portugal and Mrs. Jorge Sampaio (Report
#1), Prime Minister and Mrs. Antonio Guterres (Report #2), the
Bishop of Fatima (Report #3), and hosted a roundtable
discussion with a group of Portuguese women, prominent in
social, community and business affairs in Portugal. The First
Lady also visited a school in the heart of Lisbon, and sites of
historic, cultural and religious significance--including the
Shrine of Fatima. She discussed with her Portuguese
interlocuters a range of issues from globalization, stability
and peace in the world, to plans for Lisbon's World Fair - Expo
'98. The First Lady capped her stay in Portugal with a key
visit: a morale-boosting stopover at the U.S. Air Force Base
at Lajes in the Azores. Her visit and her message of support
from the President were very much appreciated. She received a
warm and enthusiastic welcome from the servicemen and women and
their families. End Background.
3. Please contact me at (202) 647-3072 for any questions,
comments or additions.
003
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SUBJECT: FIRST LADY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON'S MEETING WITH THE
PRESIDENT OF PORTUGAL - REPORT # 1
1. SUMMARY: DURING HER JULY 16-20 VISIT TO PORTUGAL, FIRST
LADY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON MET WITH PRESIDENT AND MRS. JORGE
SAMPAIO AT THE OFFICIAL RESIDENCE OF THE PRESIDENT, ON JULY
16. THE PRESIDENT OUTLINED FOR THE FIRST LADY HIS DUTIES AS
PRESIDENT, AND ALSO PRESENTED A TOUR D'HORIZON OF CURRENT
PORTUGUESE ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL CHALLENGES--FOCUSING ON LISBON'S
URBAN DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS, EDUCATIONAL DEVELOPMENT, CREATION
OF JOBS FOR UNIVERSITY GRADUATES, AND HOUSING. BOTH THE FIRST
LADY AND THE PRESIDENT AGREED THAT GLOBALIZATION IS A KEY
CHALLENGE OF GOVERNMENTS TODAY, PARTICULARLY IN TERMS OF
BALANCING SOCIAL NEEDS OF CITIZENS WITH ECONOMIC STRUCTUAL
ADJUSTMENTS. END SUMMARY.
2. ON JULY 16, THE PRESIDENT OF PORTUGAL, JORGE SAMPAIO AND
MRS. SAMPAIO RECEIVED FIRST LADY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON AT
BELEM PALACE, THE OFFICIAL RESIDENCE OF THE PRESIDENT, DURING
HER VISIT TO PORTUGAL. THE TRIP INCLUDED STOPS IN LISBON AND
LAJES AIRBASE IN THE AZORES. ALSO PRESENT AT THE MEETING WERE:
GOP - FILIPE MORAES CABRAL, DIPLOMATIC ADVISOR TO THE
PRESIDENT; USG - AMBASSADOR ELIZABETH FRAWLEY BAGLEY, MELANNE
VERVEER, ASSISANT TO THE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE
FIRST LADY, AND SHIRLEY E. BARNES, STATE DEPARTMENT, DIRECTOR
OF WESTERN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS (NOTETAKER).
3. FOLLOWING THE WARM WELCOME EXTENDED TO THE FIRST LADY BY
PRESIDENT AND MRS. SAMPAIO, THE PRESIDENT, A FORMER MAYOR OF
LISBON, GAVE A SHORT SUMMARY OF HIS OFFICIAL DUTIES, AS WELL AS
AN OVERVIEW OF CURRENT EVENTS IN LISBON. HE ALSO DISCUSSED
SEVERAL CHALLENGES PORTUGAL PRESENTLY FACES. ON LISBON, THE
PRESIDENT PRESENTED WHAT HE CALLED A "GLOBAL VIEW" OF THE
CITY--MENTIONING EFFORTS MADE TO MODERNIZE LISBON, THE IMPACT
OF DEVELOPMENT, THE PROBLEMS URBANIZATION IMPOSED ON SCHOOLS,
HOUSING, EMPLOYMENT. OF SPECIAL INTEREST TO LISBON'S GROWTH IS
THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE EASTERN PART OF THE CITY WHERE
CONSTRUCTION FOR EXPO '98 IS UNDERWAY. EXPECTATIONS ARE HIGH
THAT THIS WILL BOOST LISBON'S OVERALL ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL
WELL-BEING. MOREOVER, THE CONSTRUCTION WAS PLANNED so THAT IT
WILL BE BOTH FUNCTIONAL AND ECONOMICALLY ADVANTAGEOUS TO
LISBON'S FUTURE DEVELOPMENT.
4. THE PRESIDENT SAID THAT WITH THE DEMISE OF PORTUGAL'S
DICTATORSHIP AND THE ADVENT OF DEMOCRACY, IN THE LAST 10-15
YEARS, THE GOVERNMENT HAS BECOME LESS CENTRALIZED. THE INCREASE
IN OPEN UNIVERSITIES HAS LED TO A BOOM IN UNIVERSITY
GRADUATES- WHO NEED JOBS. THIS IS AN IMMEDIATE CHALLENGE
PORTUGAL FACES. HE ADDED THAT IT IS A PAN-EUROPEAN CHALLENGE,
FORCING COUNTRIES TO CHOOSE BETWEEN AN AMERICAN MODEL OF GROWTH
AND DEVELOPMENT, AND A EUROPEAN MODEL. RELATED TO THIS CHOICE
IS THE EVER-PRESENT PROBLEM OF UNEMPLOYMENT. THE PRESIDENT
CITED PORTUGAL'S RELATIVELY LOW RATE OF 6.5% UNEMPLOYMENT,
COMPARED TO EUROPE'S AVERAGE OF 12%, AND ADDED THAT ITS
RELATIVELY GOOD POSITION DOES NOT FREE PORTUGAL FROM OVERALL
CONCERN OVER THE ISSUE OF JOB CREATION--ESPECIALLY FOR RECENT
004
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08/05/97 TUE 14:42 FAX 2026473459 GRADUATES.
5. AFTER YEARS OF DICTATORSHIP, PRESIDENT SAMPAIO EMPHASIZED,
DEMOCRACY IS VERY IMPORTANT TO PORTUGAL, ADDING THAT THE
PORTUGUESE PEOPLE READILY SYMPATHIZE WITH THE NEWLY INDEPENDENT
EASTERN EUORPEAN STATES. HE UNDERSCORED THE IMPORTANCE
PORTUGAL ATTACHES TO ITS ROLE AND PRESENCE IN BOSNIA AND IN THE
ANGOLAN PEACE PROCESS, NOTING THAT EVEN THOUGH IT IS A SMALL
COUNTRY, PORTUGAL IS COMMITTED TO DEALING WITH EXTERNAL
CHALLENGES WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY TENDING TO ITS OWN INTERNAL
CHALLENGES.
6. EXPRESSING HIS APPRECIATION FOR THE FIRST LADY'S VISIT TO
LISBON'S ELEMENTARY SCHOOL NO. 157, PRESIDENT SAMPAIO SAID THAT
PORTUGAL TAKES ITS PRE-ELEMENTARY SCHOOL PROGRAM VERY
SERIOUSLY. HE ADDED THAT SENSITIVITY TO DIVERSITY AND RACIAL
BACKGROUND WERE IMPORTANT FACTORS IN THE DESIGN OF PORTUGAL'S
EDUCATION PROGRAMS, SINCE AN INCREASINGLY GREATER PROPORTION OF
ITS STUDENTS COME FROM FORMER PORTUGUESE COLONIES. THE FIRST
LADY CONGRATULATED SAMPAIO ON THE EXCELLENT PROGRAMS PORTUGAL
HAS DESIGNED. SHE NOTED HOW IMPRESSED SHE WAS WITH SCHOOL
157'S PROGRAM AND THE IDEA OF TEACHING CHILDREN AT SUCH AN
EARLY AGE AN APPRECIATION FOR THE INTERRELATIONSHIP OF
AGRICULTURE TO THE DAILY ASPECTS OF OUR LIVES.
7. TURNING TO ECONOMIC ISSUES, SAMPAIO SAID THAT HOUSING AND
UNEMPLOYMENT ARE OF KEY IMPORTANCE TO PORTUGAL, AS IS THE
NETTLESOME QUESTION OF RESTRUCTURING THE ECONOMY. PORTUGAL
WELCOMES ITS 3.7% GROWTH RATE, BUT MUST MAKE BETTER PLANS FOR
ITS FAST-GROWING SHIFT TO A SERVICE ECONOMY. AGRICULTURE IS
ANOTHER CHALLENGE PORTUGAL FACES, ESPECIALLY AS SUBSIDIES
ESTABLISHED UNDER THE COMMON AGRICULTURAL POLICY (CAP) FADE
AWAY. HE CONTINUED, FINDING A WAY FOR PORTUGUESE AGRICULTURE
TO SURVIVE, THE RESTRUCTURING OF SMALL AND MEDIUM-SIZE
INDUSTRIES, DEALING WITH THE MAASTRICHT CRITERIA AND PORTUGAL'S
EXPECTATIONS OF ENTERING THE EMU IN THE FIRST GROUP--ARE ALL
CHALLENGES THE GOP FACES. THE FIRST LADY COMMENTED THAT THE
GLOBAL ISSUE OF EMPLOYMENT IS A CHALLENGE FOR ALL OF US, AS ARE
THE OVERARCHING PROBLEMS WE ALL FACE WITH RESTRUCTURING OUR
ECONOMIES. SHE SAID THAT QUESTIONS OF GLOBALIZATION HAVE A
DIRECT IMPACT ON MANY OF THE SOCIAL ISSUES OUR GOVERNMENTS ARE
FACING.
8. THE PORTUGUESE PRESIDENT OUTLINED FOR MRS. CLINTON HIS
DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. HE NOTED
THAT ALTHOUGH THE PM HAS A GREAT DEAL OF POWER, THE PRESIDENCY
HAS A "FEW ATOM BOMBS" AT ITS DISPOSAL--ALBEIT WITHOUT AN
"INFANTRY". WHILE THERE MAY BE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE
PRESIDENT AND THE PRIME MINISTER FROM TIME TO TIME, SAMPAIO
SAID THAT ABOVE ALL, THE PORTUGUESE PEOPLE WANT STABILITY OF
GOVERNMENT--AND BOTH HE AND THE PRIME MINISTER ARE IN
FUNDAMENTAL AGREEMENT ON THIS. MRS. CLINTON AGREED WITH
SAMPAIO ON THE NEED AND DESIRE FOR STABILITY, ADDING THAT
DURING HER TRAVELS, IT IS OBVIOUS THAT ALL GOVERNMENTS WANT
PEACE, AND WANT TO FIND WAYS TO AVOID THE SOCIAL DISRUPTIONS OF
GLOBALIZATION.
9. CONTINUING ON THE ISSUE OF GLOBALIZATION, SAMPAIO
CONSTRASTED THE "FLEXIBILITY" OF THE U.S. RESTRUCTURING MODEL
WITH THE MORE "RIGID" EUROPEAN CHOICE. HOWEVER, HE ADDED THAT
PROPER RECOGNITION SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THE DANGERS OF INEQUALITY
AND DEVELOPMENT OF A DUAL SOCIETY WHEN THERE IS TOO MUCH
"FLEXIBILITY". THE FIRST LADY SAID THAT EVEN AS RESTRUCTURING
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FAX 2026473459 TTV THE U.S., AMERICANS, AS DO EUROPEANS, FACE MANY
PROBLEMS. SHE ADDED THAT IN RESTRUCTURING AMERICAN INDUSTRY,
THERE ARE LOTS OF ISSUES WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN FULLY ADDRESSED OR
RESOLVED, BUT PRESIDENT CLINTON IS WORKING UNCEASINGLY TO BRING
RESOLUTION TO THEM.
10. MRS. CLINTON NOTED THAT THE WHOLE RESTRUCTURING ISSUE IN
EUROPE WILL BECOME EVEN SHARPER AS THE PRESSURES OF EASTERN
EUROPEAN ECONOMIC FACTORS COMPETE WITH THE MORE DEVELOPED
WEST. SAMPAIO AGREED, AND ADDED THAT TO SEE CONTRASTS IN
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, THE FIRST LADY SHOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY
TO VISIT THE INTERIOR OF PORTUGAL. HE NOTED THAT WHEN HE
VISITED THE U.S.A., HE HAD A CHANCE TO TRAVEL INSIDE
AMERICA--VISITING FACTORIES, FARMS, SMALL INDUSTRIES. IN THE
NEAR FUTURE, EASTERN EUROPE WILL BE A SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC
CHALLENGE SAMPAIO SAID, AND NOTED THAT PORTUGAL IS WORKING
HARD TO ADDRESS THIS BY ATTRACTING MORE PRIVATE FOREIGN
INVESTMENT. AS AN EXAMPLE, HE RECOUNTED THAT AN AIR-BAG
FACTORY IS SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING LOCATING ITS OPERATIONS IN
PORTUGAL--BUT PORTUGAL FACES STIFF COMPETITION FROM POLAND. IF
PORTUGAL WINS, IT MAY BE DUE TO ITS EXPERIENCED, TRAINED LABOR
FORCE, BUT THERE IS LITTLE DOUBT THAT IT WILL BECOME
INCREASINGLY DIFFICULT FOR PORTUGAL TO COMPETE WITH EASTERN
EUROPE THROUGH OFFERING LOW WAGES AND HIGH-SKILLS. MRS.
CLINTON AGREED AND ADDED THAT CHOICES BECOME MORE DIFFICULT TO
MAKE WHEN GOVERNMENTS FACE RESTRUCTURING FOR A GLOBALIZED
ECONOMY WHILE FULFILLING ITS SOCIAL CONTRACT OBLIGATIONS WITH
ITS CITIZENS.
11. PRESIDENT AND MRS. SAMPAIO THANKED THE FIRST LADY FOR HER
DECISION TO VISIT PORTUGAL AND ASKED THAT SHE CONVEY THEIR BEST
WISHES TO PRESIDENT CLINTON. ON BEHALF OF CHELSEA AND OTHERS
TRAVELLING WITH HER, MRS. CLINTON EXPRESSED HER GREAT PLEASURE
TO BE IN PORTUGAL AND THANKED THE PRESIDENT, MRS. SAMPAIO AND
THE PORTUGUESE PEOPLE FOR THEIR WARM, ENTHUSIASTIC AND GRACIOUS
HOSPITALITY.
DRAFTED: EUR/WE - SEBARNES
7/24/97 OK
CLEARED: LISBON - AMBASSADOR EFBAGLEY OK
WHITE HOUSE - MVERVEER
006
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SUBJECT: FIRST LADY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON'S MEETING WITH
PORTUGUESE PRIME MINISTER GUTERRES - REPORT #2
1. SUMMARY: ON JULY 17, FIRST LADY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON MET
WITH PRIME MINISTER AND MRS. ANTONIO GUTERRES AT THE PRIME
MINISTER'S OFFICIAL RESIDENCE. THE MEETING WAS ONE OF
MRS.CLINTON'S MAIN STOPS DURING HER JULY 16-20 VISIT TO
PORTUGAL, AND FOLLOWED HER MEETING WITH PORTUGAL'S PRESIDENT
THE PREVIOUS DAY. THE PRIME MINISTER AND THE FIRST LADY
DISCUSSED THE PRESENT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATE OVER
REGIONALIZATION; REDEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES IN LISBON; PORTUGAL'S
GROWING ECONOMIC INVESTMENTS IN BRAZIL; THE FIRST LADY'S TRIP
TO THE AZORES; AND THE STRONG AND ENDURING FRIENDSHIP BETWEEN
THE USG AND PORTUGAL. ALSO ATTENDING THE MEETING WERE: GOP -
DR. JOAO LIMA PIMENTEL, DIPLOMATIC ADVISOR. USG - AMBASSADOR
ELIZABETH FRAWLEY BAGLEY, MELANNE VERVEER, ASSISTANT TO THE
PRESIDENT AND CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE FIRST LADY, SHIRLEY E.
BARNES, DEPARTMENT OF STATE, DIRECTOR OF WESTERN EUROPEAN
AFFAIRS (NOTETAKER). END SUMMARY.
2. PRIME MINISTER AND MRS. ANTONIO GUTERRES WELCOMED FIRST LADY
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON TO THEIR OFFICIAL RESIDENCE IN SAO BENTO
PALACE, ON THURSDAY, JULY 17. THE MEETING WITH THE PRIME
MINISTER WAS ONE OF THE MAIN STOPS THE FIRST LADY MADE DURING
HER JULY 16-20 TRIP TO PORTUGAL. ON THE PREVIOUS DAY, SHE HAD
MET WITH PRESIDENT AND MRS. JORGE SAMPAIO.
3. FOLLOWING A BRIEF DISCUSSION OF THE FIRST LADY'S ITINERARY
DURING HER STAY IN PORTUGAL, AND AFTER GIVING A BRIEF REVIEW OF
THE HISTORY OF THE UNION OF MISERCORDIA, THE PRIME MINISTER
DISCUSSED SEVERAL CURRENT POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC ISSUES. HE
MENTIONED THE PRESENT DEBATE IN THE PARLIAMENT ON INCREASED
REGIONALIZATION, AND THE PROPOSED REFERENDUM ON THE ISSUE. THE
PRIME MINISTER EXPLAINED ASPECTS OF THE PRESENT REGIONAL
COORDINATION SYSTEM AND THE DEBATE OVER THE BALANCE BETWEEN
REGIONALISM AND CENTRAL GOVERNMENT CONTROLS. HE TOUCHED ON HIS
SUPPORT FOR URBANIZATION PROJECTS AND THE INSTRUMENTS WHICH
MUNICIPALITIES HAVE TO COORDINATE THE PROGRAMS. THE FIRST LADY
MENTIONED THAT DURING HER MEETING WITH PRESIDENT SAMPAIO THE
DAY BEFORE, EXPO '98 WAS DISCUSSED, ESPECIALLY ITS IMPACT ON
LISBON'S URBAN DEVELOPMENT. GUTERRES SAID THAT THE ADVANTAGE
OF EXPO '98 CONSTRUCTION WAS THE ENTIRE AREA'S FUTURE
FUNCTIONAL USE AND ITS EXPECTED CONTRIBUTION TO LISBON'S
OVERALL ECONOMY.
4. THE FIRST LADY SAID THAT THE PRESIDENT HAD ASKED HER TO PASS
ON TO PRIME MINISTER GUTERRES HIS APPRECIATION FOR PORTUGAL'S
SUPPORT AND EFFORTS AT THE MADRID SUMMIT, AS WELL AS ITS
CONTINUED SUPPORT IN OTHER AREAS SUCH AS PEACEKEEPING
OPERATIONS. GUTERRES RESPONDED THAT THE GOP AND USG HAVE AN
OLD AND GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH A STRONG AND SHARED ATLANTICIST
OUTLOOK. HE SPOKE OF PORTUGAL'S VERY SPECIAL TIES TO THE
U.S. EVEN WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF ITS STRONG EU LINK. GUTERRES
ALSO MENTIONED THE STRONG LIAISON PORTUGAL HAS WITH
BRAZIL--ADDING THAT HE WOULD BE LEAVING FOR BRAZIL THE
FOLLOWING DAY (JULY 18). HE SAID PORTUGAL IS INCREASING ITS
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INVESIMENTS IN BRAZIL IN A NUMBER OF INDUSTRIES, INCLUDING
FIBER OPTICS.
5. THE MEETING CONCLUDED WITH A BRIEF TALK ABOUT THE FIRST
LADY'S IMPENDING STOP IN THE AZORES. GUTERRES NOTED THAT THE
AZORES HAVE A DISTINCT HISTORY WHICH INCLUDED "LOTS OF CULTURAL
HERITAGE". HE ALSO NOTED CERTAIN DISTINCT AND ADMIRABLE
CHARACTERISTICS OF THE PEOPLE OF THE AZORES.
6. ON BEHALF OF CHELSEA AND THE REST OF HER PARTY, THE FIRST
LADY EXPRESSED HER DEEP GRATITUDE TO THE PRIME MINISTER FOR THE
ESPECIALLY WARM WELCOME THE PORTUGUESE OFFERED, AND SAID HOW
MUCH SHE LOOKED FORWARD TO THE REST OF HER VISIT.
DRAFTED: EUR/WE - SEBARNES 7/24/97 OK
CLEARED: LISBON - AMBASSADOR EFBAGLEY OK
WHITE HOUSE - MVERVEER
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EUR/WE
SUBJECT: FIRST LADY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON'S VISIT WITH THE
BISHOP OF LEIRIA AND FATIMA - REPORT #3
1. SUMMARY: DURING HER VISIT TO PORTUGAL, JULY 16-20, ON JULY
18, FIRST LADY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON MET WITH THE MOST
REVEREND SERAFIM PERREIRA E SILVA, BISHOP OF LEIRIA AND
FATIMA. THE MEETING TOOK PLACE IN THE BISHOP'S OFFICES AT THE
FATIMA HOLY SHRINE. FOCUSSING ON THE MESSAGE OF PEACE, THE
BISHOP RECOUNTED THE HISTORY OF THE SHRINE AND FATIMA'S
PRESENT-DAY MISSION. END SUMMARY.
2. ON JULY 18, FIRST LADY HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON MET WITH THE
BISHOP OF LEIRIA AND FATIMA, THE MOST REVEREND SERFIM FERREIRA
E SILVA. THE MEETING TOOK PLACE IN THE BISHOP'S OFFICE.
INCLUDED IN THE MEETING WERE: FATIMA SHRINE - MONSIGNOR
LUCIANO GUERRA, RECTOR OF THE FATIMA SANCTUARY; USG -
AMBASSADOR ELIZABETH FRAWLEY BAGLEY, MELANNE VERVEER, ASSISTANT
TO THE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF OF STATE TO THE FIRST LADY, CHELSEA
CLINTON, SHIRLEY E. BARNES, DEPARTMENT OF STATE, DIRECTOR OF
WESTERN EUROPEAN AFFAIRS (NOTETAKER).
3. THE BISHOP EXTENDED A WARM WELCOME TO MRS. CLINTON AND
CONGRATULATED HER FOR HER STRONG COMMITMENT AND CONTINUING WORK
OVER THE YEARS ON SOCIAL WELFARE ISSUES. RECOGNIZING THAT THE
FIRST LADY HAILS FORM CHICAGO, THE BISHOP RECOUNTED HIS VISIT
THERE- DESCRIBING IT AS A PLACE WHERE "EVERYTHING IS BIG". HE
SAID THAT ONE OF THE PRIMARY GOALS OF HIS VISIT TO CHICAGO AND
ONE OF HIS GREATEST WISHES WAS TO INVITE CARDINAL BERNARDIN TO
FATIMA. UNFORTUNATELY, THIS DID NOT HAPPEN. HE ALSO MENTIONED
THAT THERE WAS A SMALL GROUP OF CHICAGOANS VISITING FATIMA THAT
DAY, AND THEY WERE VERY EXCITED ABOUT MRS. CLINTON'S PRESENCE.
4. THE BISHOP EXPLAINED THE HISTORY OF FATIMA, THE STORY OF OUR
LADY'S APPARITION TO THE THREE CHILDREN, AND THE PRESENT GOALS
AND MISSION OF FATIMA TO SERVE AS AN INSTRUMENT FOR WORLD
PEACE. THE FIRST LADY TOLD THE BISHOP HOW MUCH SHE HAD LOOKED
FORWARD TO VISITING FATIMA, AND SAID SHE REGRETTED THAT
CARDINAL BERNARDIN WAS NEVER ABLE TO MAKE THE TRIP. SHE ADDED
THAT SHE HAD HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE TO KNOW CARDINAL BERNARDIN,
AND NOTED THAT HE WAS A MAN OF FAITH, WHOM WE WILL ALWAYS
REMEMBER.
5. IN RESPONSE TO THE FIRST LADY'S QUERY AS TO WHETHER THE POPE
WOULD VISIT FATIMA, THE BISHOP SAID THAT "PERHAPS/MAYBE" THERE
WOULD BE A VISIT IN THE FUTURE, BUT FOR NOW THE VATICAN
STRUCTURE HAD MADE NO DEFINITIVE PLANS.
6. CONTINUING WITH A SUMMARY OF FATIMA'S PRESENT-DAY
ACTIVITIES, THE BISHOP NOTED THE THOUSANDS OF YEARLY
PILGRIMAGES MADE TO THE SHRINE-- INCLUDING AN INCREASING NUMBER
009
08/05/97 TUE 14:46 FAX 2026473459
EUR/WE
or PILGRIMS FROM EASTERN EUROPE. HE ADDED, MANY EASTERN
EUROPEAN PILGRIMS HAVE REITERATED THEIR GRATITUDE TO OUR LADY
OF FATIMA FOR THE LIBERATION OF THEIR COUNTRIES FROM
COMMUNISM. HE SAID THAT WHETHER ONE IS CATHOLIC OR NOT, THE
SYMBOL OF OUR LADY OF FATIMA CAN BE APPRECIATED AND UNDERSTOOD
AROUND THE WORLD. RECONCILIATION AMONG NATIONS, HE SAID, IS
THE GOAL OF FATIMA'S WORK. THE FIRST LADY RESPONDED THAT THIS
IS THE MOST IMPORTANT MESSAGE, AND MUST BE COMMUNICATED IN AS
MANY WAYS POSSIBLE.
7. THE BISHOP EXPLAINED THAT FATIMA RECEIVES DONATIONS FROM
SIMPLE PILGRIMS WHICH GO TOWARDS ITS WORK WITH THE HANDICAPPED
AND THE POOR. HE SAID THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT FIGHT WAS FOR
PEACE--AND HIS HOPES WERE THAT THE U.S., AND OTHER NATIONS
AROUND THE WORLD "FIGHT" FOR PEACE. THE BISHOP STATED THAT
SENDING U.S. F-16'S TO PORTUGAL WAS FINE, BUT HE ASKED THAT THE
U.S. ALSO CONTINUE TO SEND ITS VALUES AND IDEAS FOR PEACE.
8. THE FIRST LADY ASSURED THE BISHOP THAT THE PRESIDENT FIRMLY
BELIEVES IN PEACE, AND THAT ONLY THROUGH WORKING FOR PEACE CAN
WE DEVELOP MORE LASTING RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHER COUNTRIES.
SHE ADDED THAT A PLACE LIKE FATIMA BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER. IT
MAY SEEM LIKE AN INDIVIDUAL JOURNEY, SHE SAID--BUT IT IS ALSO
HUMANITY'S JOURNEY. WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM THE EXPERIENCE OF
FATIMA.
9. AFTER THE MEETING, THE FIRST LADY AND CHELSEA TOURED THE
BASILICA AND THE SHRINE WITH MONSIGNOR GUERRA, AND THEN
ATTENDED A BRIEF CEREMONY IN THE BASILICA'S SQUARE WHERE THEY
LIT A CANDLE WHILE THE PEOPLE SAID THE HAIL MARY PRAYER FOR
MRS. CLINTON AND THE PRESIDENT. THE FIRST LADY RECEIVED AN
EXTREMELY WARM WELCOME FROM THE LARGE CROWD, WHICH INCLUDED A
NUMBER OF AMERICAN PILGRIMS AND TOURISTS. SHE SHOOK HANDS WITH
ONE OF THE AMERICAN GROUPS, WHICH INCLUDED A PRIEST SPORTING A
CHICAGO BULLS BASEBALL CAP. HE SPONTANEOUSLY PLACED HIS HAND
ON CHELSEA'S HEAD AND BLESSED HER. (NOTE: AN UNEXPECTED
SURPRISE: ONE AMERICAN TOURIST IN THE CROWD, GUITAR IN HAND,
SANG A SONG TO THE FIRST LADY WHICH SHE HAD COMPOSED. END NOTE.)
DRAFTED: EUR/WE - SEBARNES 7/24/97 OK
CLEARED: LISBON - AMBASSADOR EFBAGLEY OK
WHITE HOUSE - MVERVEER
Translation of the interview to ELLE magazine (April 1997)
Pages 100-104
Headline: "POLITICS AND PRIVILEGE"
Introduction: A personal friend of Bill Clinton, Elizabeth Frawley Bagley, 44
years-old, is the U.S. Ambassador in Portugal since 1994. She is a woman who
has achieved an enviable equilibrium between career and motherhood. She
knows well what she wants and her projects always have a political edge. By
Patrícia Reis.
She likes everything that is part of the feminine universe, but since she has little
time, her hairdresser comes to the house. Her preferred place for shopping is
Paris, although she is a fan of some American designers. Elizabeth Frawley
Bagley may be a woman very close to the seat of power, but that does not prevent
her from being a woman like any other.
Was it easy to make the transition from the American style of life to the
Portuguese one?
Surprisingly it was easier than I had expected. It was the first time that my family
-- I have two small children -- decided to leave the U.S. and live abroad. My son
was 13 months old when we arrived. My daughter was three and a half.
They like Portugal?
Yes. They go to the American school, but have Portuguese friends. They speak
Portuguese fairly well, and understand everything perfectly.
When you were invited to be the Ambassador to Portugal did you accept
immediately? Were you pleased with the proposal? Or did you think:
horrors, Lisbon, I would prefer that it were Paris, Rome or Brussels?
No (laughter) I had been here on business in 1980. I remember spending
several spectacular hours on a beach in Cascais. The weather was beautiful, the
sea fantastic, the food was wonderful.
You did not hesitate to say yes, to accept the position?
I said yes immediately. Portugal was one of several options that I had discussed
with the Clinton Administration, and once it was offered officially, I didn't hesitate.
Why?
During the first year of the Clinton administration, I was pregnant and, therefore,
unavailable for any position. After my son was born, we talked about a position
abroad and there were some openings, the majority of which had been traditionally
occupied by career diplomats, including this one in Lisbon. I thought that Portugal
would be interesting. I knew I would handle issues that dealt with Europe
Besides, Portugal is a strong ally, a member of NATO and of the European Union.
I had lived in Europe previously -- when I entered college I spent a year in France
and a few months in Spain -- and I was very enthusiastic about returning during
this historic period of transformation. I also had hoped that Portuguese would be
similar to Spanish, a language I had studied for some years.
After this time you have spent here what do you think about the Portuguese
way of life?
It is a completely different experience. It is a more tranquil life.. not here at the
embassy, here it is American territory and things go very fast, step by step with
Washington. In Portugal, the way of life is much more tranquil and many times it
is a welcome respite from my job.
What is the best quality of the Portuguese?
The Portuguese attitude toward life is the best quality that they have. The value
system is very strong they are very tied to the family and children. This was
very important to me when I arrived, because I wanted my family to feel
comfortable. I had my job, but my family was in a slightly different situation and
needed to adapt.
What is the worst defect of the Portuguese?
I don't believe there is any special "defect" of the Portuguese that could not be
attributed to any other nationality. I believe that their best attributes are their
values, the tradition and the pride they have in History. I admit that at first it was
a little difficult for me to adjust to the calmer Portuguese lifestyle, but I always
considered that to be my problem.
Was it easy for your husband to change his life to come to Portugal? This is
not a very common situation: the husband going to where the wife is going
to work.
It is uncommon, yes. But my husband handles the situation perfectly well,
because he has a business of his own and can continue to manage it from here.
Ours is a privileged case.
Doesn't he feel threatened, as happens with some husbands, with the fact
that he has a wife with an important job?
No. I know it is not usual, but he doesn't feel minimally threatened. He is older
than I am
Is that an advantage?
Sometimes it is a great advantage, because he has already done many things, he
was very successful throughout his life. We share a taste for politics -- that was
how we met -- but he is a person that has his own businesses, he made a fortune
by himself. We have strengths and qualities that are completely different. His
strength lies in business. I like public service, diplomacy, law.
When did your passion for politics arise?
In part it has to do with my family's history. My father was a judge and a lawyer.
One of my brothers is also a lawyer and we have all been involved in politics since
my father ran as a Democratic candidate for a judgeship 40 years ago, where he
has been ever since. Besides, we are of Irish origin and they say that politics is a
natural gift of the Irish.
Is it in your genes?
That's it it is in my genes.
And Lisbon isn't too slow and little political-oriented?
Not at all. Lisbon is a fascinating place from the political standpoint. When I
arrived, the Government was different, the President came from the opposition and
our role was to report events and analyze the campaigns. I enjoyed being
involved in that analytical process and in trying to perceive how it is that things
function.
Once you said that António Guterres was doing a good job
I really think SO. He is doing a fantastic job and has demonstrated an effective
capacity for leadership.
Do you think that Cavaco Silva did a bad job when he was prime minister?
No, one thing does not imply the other (laughter...) They are not things that are
mutually exclusive. Cavaco Silva was a very strong leader, very charismatic. Of
course I only followed the end of his mandate, but he is a very dynamic, highly
intelligent man, who contributed a great deal to bringing Portugal into the world
community.
Recently Bill Clinton won again the presidential elections. Would America
be much different if Bob Dole had won?
It would be very different. We would have had a Republican president and
Congress and that would have allowed Republican legislation to pass easily. In
terms of foreign policy I don't believe the differences would have been great.
There would have been, certainly, a different approach. In terms of domestic
policy it would have been different, certainly in terms of budget priorities.
Someone wrote that the fact that Bill Clinton won the presidential elections
meant that a younger generation had reached power, that the time for those
born in the mid 50s had arrived. Do you think that your time has also
arrived, in the sense that you are in a position of power and can bring about
change?
I hope so (she laughs).
Is it good not to have to wait until you are 65 to have power?
Of course. In any case, I always hoped that one day I would be an Ambassador,
but I never thought it would happen so soon.
Do you believe in the so-called American dream?
That anybody can be president? Of course. Bill Clinton personifies that idea
exactly; he came from a modest background, he grew up in a small town in a poor
state and was given educational opportunities that allowed him to make the most
of his talents.
What will happen next in your life?
I plan to return to Washington and I hope to continue to work for the Clinton
administration in the area of foreign relations. I haven't thought much about it yet.
The majority of the press mistreats, in some way, Hillary Clinton. Do you
like her?
I like her very much. I consider her a personal friend, and a model for women like
me who balance career, marriage, and motherhood.
In America the power of the media is tremendous. Hillary Clinton is tortured
daily.
Hillary represents a new force in American politics. She is young, substantially
younger than Nancy Reagan. She built a career with multiple successes. She is
very independent, with deep convictions, and I believe there are those who feel
threatened by her strength of will.
At first, women looked at her and were happy to see that the First Lady
would not be a decorative figure
What is highlighted often are the negative reports; the good things do not receive
the same level of attention. Polls show that Hillary is very strong. People
generally like her and she has a strong following among most women. But some
disagree with her.
Why do you think that is?
Because they are politically conservative, and are not ready to see a woman
defend the causes that she defends. Some think that she was not elected, like
the President, and for that [reason] she shouldn't be so proactive. But she has
made important contributions. She wrote a book that sold much more than the
President's did. She is respected and has done a wonderful job. Let's be frank:
people with great force of will and capability will never be popular with everyone,
and especially if they are women.
Do you believe she would be a good president?
Yes, I think so. But she would never be a candidate. She and her husband made
a decision about who would lead politically many years ago.
Let's return to you. To arrive where you have arrived, do you have to work
harder to show your worth?
I have to work harder, like the majority of women. The more so because we are
in a transition phase, where women have to prove they are capable. Men take it
for granted that they can do any type of work while women still have to prove it.
The Portuguese were surprised with the fact that they had a woman as U.S.
Ambassador. But in the U.S., especially under this President, there was a special
effort to value the contributions of women.
Is it good to have money to realize ideas?
It is important to have ideas and our personal approach is very important, because
we must have the capacity to convince people of the value of our ideas. We have
to be salespersons.
Is that what makes a politician?
Yes, a politician is a salesperson. They have to convince, first, the voters to elect
them and, afterwards, to organize coalitions among colleagues to promote
legislation that improves the life of our community and nation.
Is that what you are selling? Are you a good saleswoman?
I think so. I'm very enthusiastic. I'm selling the U.S. as the "world's indispensable
nation", as President Clinton said, because America is a loyal ally, committed to
European security, both economic and political, but we are most effective when we
work together with our partners and allies, united for a common objective.
Captions:
[Ambassador's photo on page 101]:
The ambassador of the U.S.A. likes Portugal, although she has some
difficulty adjusting to a less accelerated pace.
[Pictures on page 102]:
Above: the ambassador with her husband, photographed at a gala party. At
the side: the children of the couple enjoy the beach. Bottom: Elizabeth
Frawley Bagley, with a marine, in the embassy of the United States in Lisbon.
[Pictures on page 104]:
The ambassador of the U.S. in her office photographed next to an American
marine. Below, a photograph from the family album. Elizabeth Frawley
Bagley with her husband and two small children. The ambassador's children
attend the American School. The American International School, in Sintra, is
under construction.
[Mid-page boxed quote, page 104]:
"Hillary Clinton represents a new force in American politics. She is an
example of women who reconcile career with motherhood."
entrevista
A embaixadora dos EUA
O que sobressai pode ser algumas notícias
no seu gabinete e
negativas, não se dá atenção às coisas boas
fotografada junto a um
com a mesma intensidade. As sondagens
marine americano.
Em baixo, uma fotogra-
mostram que Hillary é muito forte. As pes-
fia do álbum de família.
soas gostam dela e ela tem uma presença
Elisabeth Frawly Bagley
bastante forte junto das pessoas. Mas tal-
com 0 marido e os dois
vez ela assuste.
filhos pequenos.
Os filhos da embaixado-
Porque é que acha que isso acontece?
ra frequentam a escola
Porque algumas pessoas são politicamen-
americana. Em constru-
te conservadoras, algumas não estão
ção está a Escola Inter-
prontas para ver uma mulher a defender
nacional Americana,
em Sintra.
as coisas que ela defende. Algumas pen-
sam que ela não foi eleita, como O Presi-
dente, por isso não deveria ter tanto
protagonismo. Mas ela tem feito contri-
buições importantes. Escreveu um livro
que vendeu muito mais do que O livro do
Presidente. Ela é respeitada e tem feito
um óptimo trabalho. Sejamos francos:
pessoas com grande força de vontade e
capacidade não serão nunca populares
para toda a gente, em especial se forem
mulheres.
Acha que ela daria um bom presidente?
Sim, acho que sim. Mas ela nunca se can-
didataria. Eles tomaram uma decisão so-
bre quem é que iria liderar politicamente.
Voltemos a si. Para chegar onde chegou, tem
de trabalhar mais para mostrar 0 que vale?
Tenho de trabalhar mais como a maioria
das mulheres. Até porque estamos numa
"
fase de transição, onde as mulheres têm
de provar que são capazes. Os homens
Hillary Clinton
partem do princípio que podem fazer
qualquer trabalho enquanto as mulheres
representa uma nova
ainda têm de o provar. Os portugueses
ficaram surpreendidos com o facto de pas-
força na política
sarem a ter uma mulher como embaixa-
dora dos EUA. Mas nos EUA, especial-
americana. É um exemplo
mente com este Presidente, houve um
esforço suplementar para valorizar as con-
para as mulheres
tribuições femininas.
É bom ter dinheiro para concretizar ideias...
que conciliam a carreira
É importante ter ideias e a nossa aborda-
gem pessoal é muito importante, porque
com a maternidade.
temos de ter a capacidade de convencer as
pessoas do valor das nossas ideias. Temos
"
ser vendedores.
É isso que faz um político?
nunca pensei que isso acontecesse tão cedo.
Gosto muito dela. Considero-a uma amiga
Sim, um político é um vendedor. Temos
Acredita no chamado sonho americano?
pessoal e um modelo para as mulheres co-
de convencer, primeiro, os eleitores a ele-
Que qualquer um pode tornar-se Presi-
mo eu que equilibram a carreira, o casa-
gerem-nos e, depois, organizar coligações
dente? Claro. Bill Clinton personaliza isso
mento e a maternidade.
entre colegas para promover legislação
mesmo, veio de um ambiente modesto,
Na América, o poder dos media é tremendo.
que melhore a vida da nossa comunidade
cresceu numa cidade pequena de um esta-
Hillary Clinton é torturada diariamente.
ou nação.
do pobre e foram-lhe dadas oportunida-
Hillary representa uma nova força na polí-
Naquilo que se está a vender? É uma boa ven-
des educacionais para que tirasse o maior
tica americana. Ela é nova, bastante mais
dedora?
partido possível das suas potencialidades.
nova do que Nancy Reagan. Construiu
Acho que sim. Sou muito entusiástica. Es-
0 que é que acontecerá a seguir na sua vida?
uma carreira com múltiplos sucessos. É
tou a vender os EUA como a "nação indis-
Tenciono regressar a Washington e espe-
muito independente, com convicções pro-
pensável do mundo", tal como disse o Pre-
ro continuar a trabalhar para a adminis-
fundas, e creio que há quem se sinta
sidente Clinton, porque a América é um
tração Clinton na área das relações exter-
ameaçado pela sua força de vontade.
aliado leal, empenhado na segurança eu-
nas. Ainda não pensei muito nisso.
No princípio, as mulheres olharam para ela e fi-
ropeia, tanto económica como política.
A maioria da imprensa maltrata, de alguma for-
caram felizes por ver que a Primeira-dama não
Somos muito eficazes quando agimos em
CARLOS RAMOS 00
ma, Hillary Clinton. Gosta dela?
seria uma figura decorativa...
prol de um objectivo comum.
104 ELLE
Maquilhagem PHAS.
A magia das cores...
com toda a segurança.
Alta tolerância
e máxima beleza
Fond de teint com pigmentos
rigorosamente seleccionados
Máscaras adaptadas aos
olhos sensíveis
Batons sem conservantes
Maquilhagem hipoalergénica
PHAS
PHAS
ECLAMAT MAT
THE
NORMALDS CONGUE
CONFORT BENGE
PHAS
HYPOALLERGÉNIQUE
Disponível nas Farmácias depositárias da marca PHAS.
Para qualquer esclarecimento contacte-nos pelo Tel.: 01-395 68 29. Av. Álvares Cabral, 61-3.° - 1250 Lisboa
entrevista
tante para mim quando cheguei, porque
do ligado à política desde que o meu pai
queria que a minha família se sentisse
se candidatou a um cargo no sistema judi-
bem. Eu tinha o meu emprego, mas a mi-
cial há 40 anos. Além disso, somos de ori-
nha família estava numa situação um pou-
gem irlandesa e dizem que a política é um
co diferente e precisava de se adaptar.
dom natural dos irlandeses.
Qual é o pior defeito dos portugueses?
Está-lhe nos genes?
Não creio que haja qualquer "defeito" es-
É isso mesmo... está-me nos genes.
pecial dos portugueses que não possa ser
E Lisboa não é demasiado lenta e pouco politi-
atribuído a qualquer outra nacionalidade.
zada?
Penso que os seus melhores atributos são
Nada disso. Lisboa é um sítio fascinante
os valores, a tradição e O orgulho que têm
do ponto de vista político. Quando che-
na História. Admito que no princípio foi
guei, o Governo era outro, O Presidente vi-
um pouco dificil adaptar-me à maior cal-
nha da oposição e o nosso papel era o de
ma da vida portuguesa, mas sempre senti
relatar os acontecimentos e analisar as
que esse era um problema meu.
campanhas. Gostei muito de me envolver
Foi fácil para 0 seu marido mudar a vida dele
nesse processo analítico e tentar perceber
para vir para Portugal? Não é uma situação
como é que as coisas funcionam.
muito comum: 0 marido ir para onde a mu-
Uma vez disse que António Guterres está a fa-
zer um bom trabalho...
Em cima:
Acho mesmo. Ele está a fazer um trabalho
a embaixadora
com o marido,
fantástico e tem demonstrado efectiva ca-
fotografados numa
pacidade de liderança.
festa de gala.
Acha que Cavaco Silva fazia um mau papel en-
Ao lado: os filhos
quanto primeiro-ministro?
do casal disfrutam
da praia.
Não, uma coisa não implica a outra (ri-
Em baixo:
sos). Não são coisas que se excluam mu-
Elisabeth Frawly
tuamente. Cavaco Silva era um líder mui-
Bagley, com um
to forte, muito carismático. Claro que só
marine, na
acompanhei o fim do mandato dele, mas
embaixada dos
Estados Unidos
ele é um homem muito dinâmico, inteli-
em Lisboa.
gentíssimo, que muito contribuiu para
Os homens acham que podem desempenhar
qualquer tipo de trabalho, enquanto as
mulheres ainda têm de O provar.
Iher vai trabalhar...
que Portugal entrasse para a comunidade
É invulgar, sim. Mas o meu marido conse-
mundial.
gue perfeitamente lidar com a situação,
Recentemente, Bill Clinton voltou a ganhar as
até porque tem um negócio que é dele e
eleições presidenciais. A América seria muito
pode continuar a geri-lo daqui. Somos um
diferente se Bob Dole tivesse ganho?
caso privilegiado.
Seria muito diferente. Teríamos um presi-
nha e fiquei muito entusiasmada por re-
Ele não se sente ameaçado, como acontece a
dente e um congresso republicano e isso
gressar neste histórico período de trans-
alguns maridos, com 0 facto de ter uma mu-
faria com que a legislação republicana vin-
formação. Tinha esperança de que o por-
Iher com um emprego importante?
gasse facilmente. Em termos de política
tuguês fosse semelhante ao espanhol,
Não. Eu sei que não é usual, mas ele não
externa não acho que as diferenças fos-
idioma que estudei durante alguns anos.
se sente minimamente ameaçado. Ele é
sem muitas. Haveria, certamente, uma
E ao fim deste tempo aqui, o que é que pensa
mais velho do que eu e...
abordagem distinta. Em termos de políti-
do portuguese way of life?
Isso é uma vantagem?
ca interna seria diferente, concerteza, em
É uma experiência completamente dife-
Às vezes é uma grande vantagem, porque
termos de prioridades orçamentais.
rente. É uma vida mais calma... não aqui
ele já fez muitas coisas, foi bem sucedido
Alguém escreveu que o facto de Bill Clinton
na embaixada, aqui é território americano
ao longo da vida. Partilhamos O gosto pela
ganhar as eleições presidenciais significava
e as coisas andam muito depressa, passo a
política foi assim que nos conhecemos -,
que uma geração mais nova tinha chegado ao
passo com Washington. Em Portugal, o
mas ele é uma pessoa que tem OS seus ne-
poder, tinha chegado a hora dos nascidos em
modo de vida é muito mais tranquilo e
gócios, fez fortuna por si. Temos forças e
meados de 50. Acha que esta é também a sua
muitas vezes é uma pausa bem-vinda ao
qualidades completamente diferentes. A
vez, no sentido em que está num lugar com po-
meu trabalho.
força dele está nos negócios. Eu gosto de
der e pode fazer com as coisas mudem?
Qual é a melhor qualidade dos portugueses?
serviço público, diplomacia, direito...
Espero que sim (ri-se).
A atitude portuguesa em relação à vida é a
Quando é que nasceu a paixão pela política?
É bom não ter de esperar pelos 65 anos para
melhor qualidade que têm. O sistema de
Em parte tem a ver com a história da mi-
se ter poder?
valores é fortíssimo... estão muito ligados à
nha família. O meu pai era juiz e advoga-
Claro. De qualquer forma, sempre pensei
CARLOS RAMOS 0Q
família e às crianças. Isso foi muito impor-
do. O meu irmão é advogado e tem esta-
que um dia seria embaixadora, mas
102 ELLE
highly qualified, great people working
for him, and it was tremendously
stimulating. Although I only worked
there for a short time, we still keep in
touch. Every year he has a big
Christmas party and invites anyone
who has ever worked for him, so the
party is getting bigger and bigger all
the time. He has a wonderful esprit de
corps."
A few years after leaving the sen-
ator's office, 24-year-old Elizabeth
Frawley-now a protocol officer in
the State Department-met her hus-
band-to-be at a party in New York.
Seventeen years her senior, Smith
Bagley was at the time in the middle
of a divorce. "I was not keen to have
anything to do with him because of
that," Bagley recalled. "I considered
myself a good Irish Catholic, and that
meant not getting involved with mar-
ried men."
Despite their hectic lives, they
stayed in touch, eventually began dat-
ing, and married three years later. The
wedding was held at the Bagley home
in Georgia, and the couple honey-
mooned in Kenya. Along for the ride
were Elizabeth's sister and Smith's
three young children.
Like his wife, Smith Bagley is
guns." This is the kind of party that
The young Bagley family, from left,
very active in American politics.
Bagley loves most, and her guests are
Smith, Conor, Elizabeth Frawley, and
Known as a high-profile fund-raiser
often loath to leave. At one memo-
Vaughan Elizabeth
for the Democratic party, Smith was a
rable get-together at her Georgetown
major backer of Carter's bid for the
home some years ago, poets Seamus
Ireland, she said, "His pursuit of
Presidency in 1976. Together, the cou-
Deane-now Professor of English lit-
peace is really laudable. I don't think
ple are generous fund-raisers for a
erature at the University of Notre
people realize how intensely he has
wide range of causes, and their
Dame-and Heaney, along with John
devoted every fiber of his being to the
Georgetown home in Washington has
Hume and Coulter, stayed up until
job. I hope that in his lifetime he sees
been a year-round venue for parties
dawn, reciting poetry and singing. "It
peace. He is the real leader of the
and dinners.
was the first time that they had been
process, the Martin Luther King of
The ambassador's fund-raising
together in one room in that way, and
Ireland."
has often been directed toward Irish
it was amazing to see all of their gifts
The ambassador's passionate
causes, particularly those in the arts
at work. Nobody wanted to go to
rhetoric about Ireland's political
and literature. At the moment, she is
bed." It's the kind of hospitality that
future comes from the heart. In addi-
planning an October dinner to coin-
would surely go down very well in
tion to her American citizenship, she
cide with Northern Lights, a gala
Dublin.
is a citizen of the Irish Republic, a
evening at the Kennedy Center in
Bagley's soft spot for Irish affairs
privilege she has passed on to both her
Washington to celebrate the achieve-
was cultivated during her time in
children and her husband, whom, she
ments of Northern Irish artists. The
Kennedy's office. It was there that she
also added, she has converted from a
party will be held in honor of Seamus
first became involved in aspects of the
WASP into "a good Irish Catholic.
Heaney, Liam Neeson, Van Morrison,
Irish political scene and was made
Now he gets mad at me if I skip
Phil Coulter, Brian Friel, and James
aware of Hume and the Social
Mass," she laughed. Although Bagley
Galway, all of whom will be perform-
Democratic and Labour Party. "I
has cultivated a love of all things Irish
ing at the event. "The evening will
respect John Hume enormously," said
in her family, she regretfully admitted
make people aware that there is more
Bagley. Speaking of his role in spear-
that she has not yet had time to take
to Northern Ireland than death and
heading the peace process in Northern
them to Ireland during her diplomatic
appointment in Portugal. "The irony
embassy is located in a beautiful sun-
who is only now getting to know her
is that I haven't been to Ireland once
drenched complex just outside the
new surroundings.
since I've been posted in Europe.
city. The estate, Quinta dos Pinheros
Their home is a true Portuguese
When we were in Washington, I visit-
(the estate of the pines), was pur-
mansion, with magnificent tiled floors
ed Ireland regularly. I'm determined
chased by the U.S. government in
and riotous plasterwork overhead.
that this year my children will come
1979. The ambassador's official resi-
Antique petit point rugs adorn the
home with me to the Old Country."
dence in the Lapa district of Lisbon is
floors and fine Italian chandeliers
Back in Lisbon, Bagley manages
located in the heart of the city, on
shine down on the formal reception
one of the finest U.S. embassy com-
what is known as Embassy Row.
rooms, which can comfortably
pounds in Europe. The American
Because of structural defects in the
accommodate 300 people for drinks.
building, the Bagleys were unable to
Paintings on loan from American
move into the residence until late last
museums and galleries decorate the
year, arriving just in time to hold
walls, courtesy of the Art in
a huge election-night party on
Embassies program. "It's a really
November 3rd. Prior to the move, the
beautiful house but very formal," said
family lived in a house located 30
Bagley, who admitted that her favorite
miles outside of Lisbon, in the town
spot is a small rooftop room known
of Cintra, and waited for the resi-
as the Crow's Nest. "It has the most
dence to take shape. "We waited for
sensational views of the city, from St.
two-and-a-half years!" said Bagley,
George's Castle to the April 25th
Declared structurally unsound when Bagley
and her family arrived in 1994, the ambas-
sador's residence in Portugal was unlivable
until fall 1996. The Bagleys have quickly
made up for lost time, hosting parties and
enjoying the compound's amenities, which
include a swimming pool and tennis courts.
There is a
training has given her an edge when it
Bagley is now reaching the end of
comes to diplomacy. "My back-
her three-year term in Portugal and
ground has enabled me to have a bet-
plans to be back in Washington come
hint of regret
ter understanding of the government's
September. What lies ahead for her
needs. I know exactly what their
has not yet been decided. But she has
as she explains
domestic situation is, and being able
made it clear that she misses being at
to talk to them on that level, with the
the epicenter of affairs of state.
authority of knowing my country's
Some say she could be a future
why she is
and my President's political dilemmas,
ambassador to Ireland, and Bagley
makes it much easier to conduct
readily admitted that Ireland would
ready to take a
diplomacy.
be a dream posting. She counts Hume
"I like to think that I have the
and Foreign Minister Dick Spring
best of both worlds. I understand the
among her good friends, while her
backseat for
foreign service mentality; it is a much
fund-raising efforts for the American
more cautious and deliberate one.
Ireland Fund (AIF) brought her close
Sometimes I can short-circuit the
to H.J. Heinz chairman and AIF direc-
a few years to
bureaucracy because I know how it
tor Tony O'Reilly.
works."
come. "You can't
Not all of Bagley's work is diplo-
ater this summer,
matic in nature. Every 4th of July the
I
Bagley will consider her
embassy hosts a party for more than
career options back on
do justice to your
2,000 people. For the last two years,
Capitol Hill. Whatever
Smith Bagley has organized the party
direction her career
children while
and raised the necessary funds-in
moves in next, she has
excess of $100,000-to make it a
decided to take on a less-demanding
great event. Smith has also become
job until her children are older.
you're working
involved in additional projects in
Although she talks about this issue
Portugal, including a drive to finance
lightly, one senses it is something that
a new American international school
162
20 hours a day.'
she has thought through long and
for Lisbon.
hard. There is a hint of regret as she
explains why she is ready to take a
backseat for a few years to come.
"You can't do justice to your chil-
dren while you're working 20 hours a
day. At the moment my job is easier,
because I am the boss. I can choose to
come in at 9:30 and be home by 6:00,
though that is often not possible. I can
go home for lunch or I can take my
son into the embassy for lunch, as I do
once a week. My daughter comes here
when she is finished with school.
"My time with my children is too
valuable to sacrifice right now. They
are young, and they need me. I am the
center of their universe. That simply
means taking on a less powerful job
outside the home. It will have to be
one that will meet the family's needs."
Still, Bagley would love to work
in Ireland some day. "It is my home-
land. My heart and soul would love it.
But it will have to wait. It is difficult to
do everything, and, you know, time
and chance happen to all of us."
H
FOCUSED IMAGES
Ambassador Bagley and her husband, Smith,
meeting and greeting at a recent American
Ireland Fund dinner.
Suspension Bridge. The room used to
in that relations between the two
"I like to think
be an outdoor laundry, but the previ-
countries are excellent. "The
ous ambassador had it enclosed, and
Portuguese are very pro-American,
we now use it as a private sitting
and in that I would equate it to
that I have the
room." Special guests are invited up
Ireland," said the ambassador. "The
to the Crow's Nest for drinks and
Portuguese see themselves as a link
best of both
informal suppers, and the ambassador
between Europe and North America,"
sometimes sits up there alone, away
she continued. "Like Ireland, they are
from the demands of protocol and
very Atlanticist in their thinking.
worlds. I under-
family.
There are not as many Portuguese in
How Bagley and her family
America as there are Irish, but there
stand the foreign
wound up in Portugal is, appropriate-
are two to three million." The U.S.
ly, a story of politics. She is the first to
embassy keeps tabs on 20,000 or so
admit that Portugal was not the first
American citizens in Portugal. Many
service mentality;
spot on her wish list back in 1992.
of these people are Portuguese natives
"When President Clinton was elected,
who lived in the U.S. for most of their
it is a much more
everyone was scurrying around for
lives and became citizens but later
jobs, including me. There were a cou-
retired to the land of their birth.
cautious and
ple of jobs that I had wanted in the
Despite the number of Americans
State Department, but those did not
in Portugal, Bagley's move to Lisbon
come my way. Then in 1992 I found I
was not entirely smooth. "As the first
deliberate one.
was pregnant, and everything took on
woman ambassador there and as a
a new dimension." She began to look
political appointee, I was received
Sometimes I can
at different career paths and at vari-
with some hesitation." That reluc-
ous ambassadorships that were due
tance was short-lived, she said, and
to come up. "I had never considered
before long people began to let down
short-circuit the
these before because I didn't know
their guards. "The Portuguese people
how my husband would react to being
are wonderful," she said. "They are
bureaucracy
second fiddle. But he decided that it
open, friendly, and very gracious.
would be good for me and pushed me
Most of them speak perfect English.
161
in that direction."
Certainly, every member of the gov-
because I know
The Portuguese post had been
ernment speaks English, so there is no
open for some time, and when
language barrier."
how it works."
Clinton offered it to Bagley, she took
it on with enthusiasm. Smith, she con-
he ambassador's
briefing. "We have people who moni-
ceded, was apprehensive about
running his extensive business inter-
ests from abroad. "He joked about
living in public housing and being
T
day starts at 6
tor the press constantly for stories of
becoming a diplomatic husband and
a.m. with a work-
interest, both worldwide and locally. I
out in her exercise
read the New York Times news digest
room. "I brought
by fax, and I also read Portuguese
exercise machines
news stories and profiles in transla-
supported by his wife," she said with
over from the
tion."
good humor. Bagley's other half owns
States-a rowing machine, a tread-
Early afternoon in Lisbon is
a cellular telephone company in
mill, and some others, and I use them
breakfast time in America, and the
Arizona and is on the boards of sever-
every morning. An hour later I wake
ambassador sets aside time after lunch
al family businesses and organiza-
up my daughter and get her dressed
to talk on the telephone with friends
tions, including the ARCA Found-
while the nanny looks after Conor."
and colleagues in the State
ation in Washington, which is
Her son has spent most of his young
Department. This past spring, much
involved in human rights and public
life in Portugal, and his mother jokes
of her time was spent overseeing secu-
policy issues. Technology, however,
that he now thinks he is Portuguese.
rity arrangements for the Portuguese
has helped him to keep in touch.
"We have breakfast together, and then
president's visit to Washington, D.C.,
"Smith communicates by fax, e-mail,
I take Vaughan to school. It's a long
in April.
and telephone and travels back to the
drive, but it is a good opportunity to
Several secretaries of state have
States every month. In fact, he is sur-
catch up with all her news, and that
visited Portugal during her term of
prised by how easy it has been. It has
time is important to me."
office, including the Irish Taoiseach,
also given him a chance to spend more
The ambassador's mornings are
John Bruton. She also maintains
time with the family."
routinely eaten up by meetings on var-
excellent relations with members of
Portugal is a relatively trouble-
ious issues. She arrives at her office at
the Portuguese government.
free posting for an American diplomat
9:30 and heads straight into a press
Bagley believes that her political
t age 43, Bagley
the State Department during the
is the youngest of
administration of President Jimmy
Bagley was
America's female
Carter, where she assisted the special
ambassadors and
advisor to the Camp David Peace
raised in what
the first woman
Accords, Sol Linowitz. During the
to serve her coun-
1980s, Bagley worked on the
try as Portuguese
Presidential campaigns of Michael
she described
ambassador. She is also one of the few
Dukakis and Bill Clinton. On the lat-
women ambassadors in the world
ter campaign, she served as foreign
with a young family. Bagley and her
policy advisor for the party platform.
husband, tobacco heir Smith Bagley,
Politics, the ambassador has said,
as a very
have two children, the younger of
is in her blood. Bagley was raised in
whom is 3-year-old Conor. His older
Elmira, N.Y., in what she described as
Irish-American
sister, 7-year-old Vaughan Elizabeth,
a very Irish-American family, with
was named after Ambassador Bagley's
roots firmly planted in the soil of
Irish grandmother, Elizabeth Vaughan
counties Roscommon and Clare.
of Liscannor, County Clare.
Growing up, Bagley and her siblings
family, with
The Bagleys have homes in
were well aware of the rigors of poli-
Washington, D.C., Georgia, and Nan-
tics. Their father had been a family
tucket, Mass., where their island get-
court judge; and, for that reason, the
roots firmly
away is named Inisfree after the poem
Frawley children quickly grew accus-
by W.B. Yeats. For now, however, their
tomed to gearing up for election day
residence is an elegant mansion in the
every four years.
planted in the
center of Lisbon, where the former
To this day, the ambassador
attorney heads a 200-member diplo-
remains very close to her immediate
matic staff.
soil of counties
family. One of eight children, Bagley
A staunch Democrat, Bagley has
has four sisters and three brothers.
worked in politics for more than
Her older brother, Kevin, whom she
20 years, immersing herself in
Roscommon
jokingly refers to as her "Irish twin,"
158
Presidential campaigns and fund-rais-
because he was born just 11 months
ing efforts for various members of
ahead of her, is a lawyer. Brian, the
Congress. She cut her political teeth in
and Clare.
brother just behind her, is an
Augustinian priest who is currently
studying clinical psychology. Just
keeping up with all of their news takes
up a good part of her telephone time
on Sundays, but for the exile ambas-
sador, it is well worth it. "We have all
remained good friends," said Bagley.
"I call my parents every Sunday night
and get the full report on everyone.
They are all still a touchstone for me."
Before joining politics, Bagley
pursued an interest in language at
Regis College in Weston, Mass.,
where she graduated cum laude in
1974 with a B.A. in French and
Spanish. Fresh out of school, Bagley
launched her political career in the
Boston office of Senator Ted Kennedy.
"I was only 22," Bagley recalled,
"and it was a very exciting place to
be. Senator Kennedy always had very
Ambassador Elizabeth Frawley Bagley and
Irish Prime Minister John Bruton at a
Washington dinner in 1995.
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Politics,
Protocol,
156
and the PTA
U.S. Ambassador to Portugal Elizabeth Frawley Bagley
juggles diplomacy and motherhood with equal aplomb.
by Orna Mulcahy
photography by Ricardo Oliveira
iplomats make great dinner party guests but they are
D
usually very difficult to interview. They can be cour-
teous, suave, informed, and amusing, but diplo-
matic training gives them an impenetrable veneer
that does not often yield to personal questions.
Elizabeth Frawley Bagley is an exception. The U.S.
ambassador to Portugal since 1994, she is a woman of tremendous warmth
and friendliness, and one with formidable political clout.
VAS
145
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politica
privilégio
Amiga pessoal de Bill Clinton, Elisabeth Frawly Bagley,
44 anos, é embaixadora dos Estados Unidos em Portugal
desde 1994. É uma mulher que conseguiu um equilíbrio invejável
entre a carreira e a maternidade. Sabe muito bem O que quer
e OS seus projectos passam sempre pela política. Por Patrícia Reis.
osta de todas as coisas
minha filha tinha três anos e meio.
sim que O posto foi formalmente ofe-
G
que fazem parte do
Eles gostam de Portugal?
recido não hesitei.
universo feminino, mas
Sim. Frequentam a Escola America-
Porquê?
como tem pouco tem-
na, mas têm amigos portugueses. Fa-
Durante primeiro ano da adminis-
po, O seu cabeleireiro
lam razoavelmente e percebem tudo
tração Clinton estava grávida e, por-
vai a casa. O preferido para
na perfeição.
tanto, indisponível para aceitar qual
compras é Paris, embora seja fa de
Quando a convidaram para embaixadora
quer posição. Depois do meu filho
alguns criadores americanos. Elisa-
em Portugal, aceitou Imediatamente?
nascer, falámos sobre um lugar no
beth Frawly Bagley talvez seja uma
Ou pensou: que horror. Lisboa, preferia
estrangeiro e havia alguns que
mulher muito próxima do poder,
que fosse Paris, Roma ou Bruxelas?
vam disponíveis, a maioria dos quais
mas não deixa de ser uma mulher
Não... (risos) Já cá tinha estado em
tinham sido ocupados tradicional-
como as outras.
negócios, em 1980. Lembro-me de
mente por diplomatas de carreira,
ELLE: Foi fácil fazer a transição do estilo
ter passado umas horas espectacula-
incluindo O de Lisboa. Pensei que
de vida americano para 0 português?
res numa praia de Cascais. O tempo
Portugal seria interessante. Sabia
Elisabeth F. Bagley: Surpreendente-
estava muito bom, O mar fantástico,
que iria lidar com questões que en-
mente foi mais fácil do que eu estava
a comida era óptima.
volvem a Europa... Além disso, Por
à espera. Foi a primeira vez que a mi-
Não hesitou em dizer que sim, em acei-
tugal é um forte aliado, membro da
nha família tenho duas crianças
tar 0 lugar?
Nato e da União Europeia. Já tinha
pequenas decidiu deixar OS EUA e
Disse logo que sim. Portugal era
vivido na Europa quando entrei
vive além-fronteiras. O meu filho ti-
uma das várias opções que discuti
para a faculdade passei um ano em
nha 13 meses quando chegámos. A
com a Administração Clinton, e as-
CARLOS RAMOS
França e alguns meses em Espa-