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1552821
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October 7, 1974 - Kissinger, Schlesinger
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1552821
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October 7, 1974 - Kissinger, Schlesinger
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Memoranda of Conversations (Nixon and Ford Administrations)
Ford Administration Memoranda of Conversations
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Portugal
Federal budget
Middle East conflicts
National security
Nuclear weapons
Petroleum
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1974-10-07
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10
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1974
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1974-10-07
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10
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1974
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File scanned from the National Security Adviser's Memoranda of Conversation Collection at the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library
NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION
Presidential Libraries Withdrawal Sheet
WITHDRAWAL ID 017732
REASON FOR WITHDRAWAL
National security restriction
TYPE OF MATERIAL
Memorandum of Conversation
TITLE
Kissinger, Schlesinger
DESCRIPTION
Re Middle East, Cyprus, Europe, Nuclear
Weapons
CREATION DATE
10/07/1974
VOLUME
5 pages
COLLECTION/SERIES/FOLDER ID
031400258
COLLECTION TITLE
National Security Adviser. Memoranda of
Conversations
BOX NUMBER
6
FOLDER TITLE
October 7, 1974 - Kissinger,
Schlesinger
DATE WITHDRAWN
05/11/2004
WITHDRAWING ARCHIVIST
GG
REDACTED
7/22/09
MEMORANDUM
(Senstive)
Scon croft
THE WHITE HOUSE
filed
WASHINGTON
Schlesingu
Mari
TOP SECRET/XGDS
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS:
James R. Schlesinger, Secretary of Defense
Dr. Henry A. Kissinger, Secretary of State
and Assistant to the President
for National Security Affairs
Lt. General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant
to the President for National Security Affairs
DATE AND TIME:
Monday - October 7, 1974
7:30 a.m. (Breakfast)
PLACE:
The Pentagon
SUBJECTS:
Middle East; Cyprus; Europe; Nuclear Weapons
Deployments
Schlesinger: How do you see the Middle East?
Kissinger: Not good. I am uneasy.
Schlesinger: We have people working on contingency planning. I'm giving
another press conference and I will say we are hoping to resolve any problem
peacefully.
Kissinger: The strategy is not to force a confrontation with the producers.
It is to scare them off another price rise and to mobilize the consumers. We
are trying to get consumer restraint and we are setting up a $15 billion fund
to equalize the burden. Then we can go after the prices. I think they will
crack before. -- I don't think they can stand the pressure.
Schlesinger: I thought the press would say I was bellicose not pacific.
Kissinger: The press has a vested interest in dissension. I think we should
keep quiet now. I will talk to the Shah and tell him what we will be forced
to do.
DECLASSIFIED w/ portions exempted
E.O. 12958 (as amended) SEC 3.3
TOP SECRET/XGDS
MR # 08-91, #1
state ltr 7/27/08, CIASTS 4/24/09; osoer 7/22/09
By dal NARA, Date 9/10/09
TOP SECRET/XGDS
-2-
Schlesinger: He is getting more and more autocratic. Can you get the
Egyptians to help themselves to the Libyan money?
Kissinger: If there is another move in the Sinai, I think the Egyptians will
be out of the war, and then they can.
But I don't know whether this Israeli Government can move.
Schlesinger: Operating in the Persian Gulf is at the end of our logistic
capability. If you had to go in, could you use Israeli facilities?
Kissinger: Yes, but that would be dynamite. Israel would love it.
Schlesinger: 70-800, 000 men and three carriers. Could we operate the oil
system quietly? Or would we hav e to protect all the pipeline ?
Kissinger: Quietly if we do it quickly and without talking about it.
Schlesinger: We need two months to get the troops and equipment out there.
Scowcroft: It's too bad there is no C-5 troop-carrying capacity.
Schlesinger: The troops we can get out there. It is the equipment that will
be difficult.
Kissinger: You could say that the oil embargo would present us with the
g ravest problems.
Schlesinger: On Turkish aid, would the cutoff apply to old funds or new ones?
Kissinger: We think new ones only.
The Greek situation is not connected with Cyprus. It is analogous to
Portugal. You should see Averoff. See him at the NPG.
Schlesinger: I will be there -- in Rome on the 8th.
Kissinger: Maybe I can stop there after Ankara and we will all meet.
Schlesinger: I am going to Germany again.
TOP SECRET/XGDS
TOP SECRET/XGDS
-3-
Kissinger: Good.
Schlesinger: We are planning the attrition of Phase I home-porting. I would
plan on attriting our (of 8) destroyer families.
Kissinger: If you want to do it, let's use it in the negotiating. You could let
them use it for publicity. Karamanlis may be like Spinola.
Schlesinger: Will the Army let it happen?
Kissinger: It depends on how demoralized they are.
Schlesinger: How about Portugal?
Kissinger: They are on the way to Communism.
Kissinger: Portugal is a classic situation. The West has done absolutely
nothing in Portugal.
Kissinger: The liberals hate America so they oppose all American allies and
they think all American opponents are philosophically right. Carl Kaysen
plotted to do away with Adenauer.
Schlesinger: I am beginning to agree with you on the Congress. They cut
$5 billion this year.
TOP SECRET/XGDS
TOP SECRET/XGDS
-4-
Kissinger: My nightmare is we could get into a declaratory policy that we
couldn't back up. If I felt we could get the money I would raise
the Soviets in the SALT negotiations. The President says he is being
begged to get $2.10 5 billion more [in cuts] from the Defense budget.
[Schlesinger is obviously upset at this]
The President didn't identify the source of the recommendation.
I fear that in three years we will face the same hassle on military
budgets that we are now facing on foreign aid.
The next generation of Soviet leaders won't have the fear of World
War II in their bones and they won't cave in cravenly like this bunch has.
And we don't have the tactical forces.
Schlesinger: I think Europe has six years to shape up.
Kissinger: It's a process of feudalization. Even in Germany. Leber, Schmidt,
and Genscher are good but there is nothing behind them. We had better fear
a change in the GDR -- if they push human rights and develop an appeal to West
Germans, there can be a resurgence of German nationalism.
I am worried about Schmidt, even. He's the best we can expect, but
he will soon offer massive credits to the Soviets.
France is a strong government, but has a weak political system. If
we lose Portugal, Greece and Italy, the elections in France would be tough.
Schlesinger: Don't Jackson and Meany have a chance with the Democrats in
1976?
Kissinger: Nixon's crime was to destroy the conservatives.
Harriman is in charge of a study group which wants to cut $25 billion
from the Defense budget. To defend against that, he is proposing a cut in
carriers, B-1, and the Trident.
Jackson would polarize. He would have to govern with the Republicans.
Schlesinger: What about Muskie?
Kissinger: You can't get him past assured destruction.
TOP SECRET/XGDS
TOP SECRET/XGDS
-5-
Schlesinger: We are studying nuclear weapons deployments. We can't keep
them scattered around unless they will be protected. Congress will force us
to pull them out.
Kissinger: If the Soviets get the idea we will pull the weapons, we won't get
anything for them. Nominal redeployments are okay. But otherwise it will
have a bad effect on the Europeans and Soviets.
Schlesinger: We are actually improving our nuclear posture. A pile of
warheads doesn't mean anything.
Kissinger: But the Europeans are so corrupt that is the way they look at it.
Schlesinger: Murphy (of the Joint Committee) is going to look at the
Kissinger: Symington has a vendetta on nuclear weapons
He says
they are exposed to Soviet paratroopers.
I will just give a good description in the NSC meeting. How do I explain
the Ikle position?
Schlesinger: I am ready to give up warheads if that will help. I would go
back to fewer and bigger on the Poseidon.
2
NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION
Presidential Libraries Withdrawal Sheet
WITHDRAWAL ID 017733
REASON FOR WITHDRAWAL
National security restriction
TYPE OF MATERIAL
Memorandum of Conversation
TITLE
Kissinger, Schlesinger
DESCRIPTION
Brent Scowcroft's handwritten version
of memcon
CREATION DATE
10/07/1974
VOLUME
4 pages
COLLECTION/SERIES/FOLDER ID
031400258
COLLECTION TITLE
National Security Adviser. Memoranda of
Conversations
BOX NUMBER
6
FOLDER TITLE
October 7, 1974 - Kissinger,
Schlesinger
DATE WITHDRAWN
05/11/2004
WITHDRAWING ARCHIVIST
GG